WEBVTT - Safely Shallow or Dangerously Deep? | MiniPod 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.320 Native Landpod is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership with 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:04.400 Recent Choice Media. 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:05.720 Well come, well. 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:15.400 Come, well come, well come, well come, Welcome. 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:12.200 Home, everybody. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.520 This is Angela Raie, Andrew Gillim and Tiffany Cross. You 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:17.759 are tuned into this week's mini pod. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:18.720 So. 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.200 I don't remember how this question came about in Miami. 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.880 I know it was in Miami, and somehow we started 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:31.760 talking about the shallow end and the deep, and I 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.919 think Andrew said that it was safer in the shallow. 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:35.919 Yeah. 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.000 I wonder if that indeed is the case. And so. 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:44.040 I am hoping that we can discuss some of these 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:46.840 I have some questions that I that I want to ask, y'all. 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.120 I think the first thing is to talk about, like 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.879 what it is frowned upon for someone to be deemed 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:55.639 as shallow, right, Like if someone is like. 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.560 Oh, there's a shallow what is that? What does that mean? 0:00:58.640 --> 0:00:58.720 Like? 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:00.920 What does it mean for someone to be shallow? To you, 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.080 tiff what does it mean You're like, oh, this person 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:03.560 is shallow? 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.560 What does that mean? That everything is surfaced? 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:09.679 I guess like if you you can't even have a 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:15.720 philical sophal, yes, if you if you can be philosophical. 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:23.040 I think that Tiff might be shallow today. 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:28.880 They cannot have a philosophical discussion, Like they couldn't even participate. 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:35.160 That we cannot have a serious They're making me laugh. 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:35.600 You're. 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:37.920 Doing anything. 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.400 It's just like they can't have a philosophical discussion. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.800 I'm not looking at you all and. 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:49.080 When you like, they're not engaged on anything beyond what 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:51.680 I would consider like bee even if we're talking about 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.760 like celebrity gossip, like it it's stays at you know. 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:55.520 Celebrity gossip. 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:59.000 If we're talking about rap lyrics, you know, like everything 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.200 is just kind of of who cares? But can I 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.279 say though, I have a friend who doesn't read any news. 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:09.440 All of her information comes from like Instagram. You know, 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.560 she is a mother, but she is like the embodiment 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.720 of love. And I think these two things are related 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.560 because I think it's easy to go through the day 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:24.040 and maybe through life being joyful when you're oblivious to 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:27.000 all the misery happening. And I've read this in a 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.760 book somewhere, and they said that humanity does not function 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:35.400 on human kindness. It actually functions on human callousness. Because 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.720 if any of us ever truly confronted the monstrosities that 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.440 happen every day as human beings, we would not be 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:45.560 able to function. So there is some safety perhaps in 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:47.120 staying in the shallow. 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:50.799 But even your friend who reads who doesn't read papers, 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:52.600 doesn't necessarily mean that she's shallow. 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.480 Are we talking about substantively. 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:59.680 Shallow, Like, yeah, she's joyful, intimactually shallow, or we say, 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:01.760 are we saying that there is there more than one 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:02.640 way to be shallow? 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:07.239 Yeah, I think people who find it difficult to choose 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:11.320 not to or don't have the ability to see or 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:15.840 understand subtexs. Yeah, like beyond what is said and what 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:26.640 is obvious, that there's a refusal, either deliberately or an 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:31.680 absence of ability to see beneath. And there's some people, 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:37.360 I think who use the tool of shallowness simply as 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:38.040 that a tool. 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.640 Yeah, like a defense mechanism. 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.240 Or I will get you coming the other way. It's 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:46.640 sort of like you won't see me coming. It's sort 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:48.960 of like you won't see me coming. So you've ever 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.320 been in community with people who you may have relegated 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.880 to the category of shallow, not deep, not the person 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:59.320 you're gonna go to for a real conversation and then 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.280 in an instance, you happen to listen or you happen 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.720 to hear them in something that they have said really 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:09.040 pricked your consciousness because it isn't on the superficial it 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:11.120 is they sort of had a moment where they revealed 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.240 that I'm as deep as you. I can go there 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.320 if I want to. I choose to keep this relationship 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:19.719 where it is so that I don't have to do 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.359 this is that and the third with you, and I 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.400 think that I have experienced people who have used the 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:33.680 veneer of superficiality as a way to cover for what 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:40.120 I've come to learn as a much deeper thinker, analyzer, 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.719 and quite frankly operator, yeah, you know, and an operator 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.440 to their benefit right in their interests. 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:51.320 One of the things I'm thinking about now because it's 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:55.600 like if you contrast between somebody who is shallow and 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:57.800 someone who is deep, at least theoretically, or maybe they 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.919 vacillate between the two. The person who I was just 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:05.560 thinking about is Congressman Bennie Thompson. He is not shallow 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:09.680 at all, but he says things that feel sometimes that 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.720 feel very surface, like he can reach you at USA 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:17.039 today and it has you know, some shakespeare like meaning, 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:19.520 and it doesn't even sink in like that until later. 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:24.279 We were having a conversation recently, and I'll speak more vaguely, 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.080 but I was in trouble because he felt like I 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.000 wasn't reaching out the way that I should. 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:33.160 And he was right, and he was just like something 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:33.520 like you know. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.240 I was like, So I called him the next or 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:37.880 a couple of days later, and I said, I'm just 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.839 calling to check in. I don't want anything. I just 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:42.960 wanted to make sure you knew that I was here. 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:45.200 And he was like, yeah, I'm just telling you to 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:47.599 just check in every now and then. And he was 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:48.760 like he was making fun of me. He's like, I 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.120 talked to your dad more than you. My dad calls 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:54.039 all of them all the time. On a surface level, 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.120 on a shallow level, it sounds like just tapping in 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.840 every now and then is a very shallow point. But 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.440 is it actually isn't like it it is. There's a 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:05.120 ton of depth attached to it. When you check in 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:10.000 with someone, it creates attachment, it creates relationship, and it 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:12.799 ensures that people know just what's going on in people's 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:14.719 everyday lives. When you don't check in with someone you 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.400 don't necessarily know they need surgery, or you don't necessarily 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.920 know that someone in their family is struggling, or you know, 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.479 there are all of these different layers that you miss 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.719 from what it feels like a relatively shallow touch. 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:31.000 Yeah. Also, I find with those shallow touches, it might appear, 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.919 if you want to categorize it that way, that those 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.599 touch ins also provide just that nugget, like something happens 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:41.160 in the course of that extrage. Yeah, that again might 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:43.960 transform the battle that you might be in. He may 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.080 not be as clueless about the battle as you're fighting 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.359 as you think. He is, maybe more tuned in you 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.200 never is. And where you choose to check in, Yeah, 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.440 he may be the South, And something that he says 0:06:57.520 --> 0:06:59.640 may be the South that you've been looking for and 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.760 you just didn't know it. I found with my father 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:06.279 that while he didn't talk a lot to us, right 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.960 unless it was a directive, that when he did choose 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:13.520 to say something, he was really saying something and I 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:15.600 didn't always get it. He'd say, he'd have to say, 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:19.440 don't take no wood Nickels off. Nobody Nickel You're right, 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:21.880 they don't exist there is no wood Nickel, right, it 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.480 didn't spend And in other words, it's like, don't be tricked, 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.520 don't be fooled, don't be you know whatever. I've shared 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:30.800 this when I talked about my own testimony where he says, 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.200 you know, son don't believe the hype like the hype music. Yeah, 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:35.960 if you believe what they say good about you, you 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:37.760 believe what they say bad, and you'll be a slave 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.760 to them both. And I had no way to see 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:44.240 that properly at the time. But his advice thenn was 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.840 as prescient, you know, as ever. And if I would 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.120 have applied it properly, sometimes you need the experience, you know, 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.120 of what not to do before you appreciate that, you know, 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.040 the advice. But but it had I known, man, it 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:58.560 would have been. But most people would have thought my 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.920 daddy was just his nickname was Sonny, you know, almost 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.880 like you know, you know, bright and cheery. He never 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.440 met a stranger. In fact that my graduation is like 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.280 oh two little times. So many people you know, get 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.800 around to your dad right to get around and touching 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:17.040 me and meet everybody. So you just thought it was 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:21.160 just happy, happy, you know, good, go lucky and and truth. 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:26.920 He was an observer, very perceptive of people, incredibly aged 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:29.720 and wise, you know, advice and so even in this 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.520 conversation about what's deep and what's superficial, a lot of 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:38.600 people who think they're deep ain'cent at all exactly the yeah, 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:40.000 very confused. 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:41.240 Makes a good point. 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:43.120 She's like when she was around all these like heads 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.199 of state and you know, high profile people, it's like, you, 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:47.520 some of y'all ain't that smart. 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:48.679 And I used to have that. 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.600 I mean, we say imposter syndrome, but I think imposter 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:53.720 syndrome is when a white man came along and told 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:55.720 you weren't good enough to do something, and it stuck 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.160 with you because you don't you're not born with that. 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:01.400 And I remember feeling like every one around me must 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.680 know something that I don't until you start talking to 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.840 folks and it's like, yeah, I actually know more than you. Yeah, 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.840 but what I don't know I can learn, but you 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.199 ain't gonna learn what I know. You know, some things 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:15.880 that we know is just by osmosis. I think I 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.640 choose to be shallow on something. I have to go 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.200 out of my way to force myself because I have 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.640 to be honest on days it might be a random 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.640 Saturday where I don't read anything. I might read like 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.920 a book of work of fiction, but my spirit does 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.160 feel a little lighter when I don't. 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:34.840 Do you just here's the question, because this is the 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.360 second time now when referencing deep or shallow you go 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:43.120 right in to like, yeah, like and well reading something. 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.800 So your friend who you said is so loving, but 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:47.160 you're like, she doesn't read anything. 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.120 She's not shallow, she's really deep. 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:51.719 Right, But then you said on your shallow days, you're 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:56.320 not reading something. I wonder how we then define that's good? Yeah, 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.880 you know depth, like it's death just book. 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.440 That's why I said subtext because I couldn't get to 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.440 the knowledge place because I thought, I don't know that 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:07.680 it is. 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:10.720 Oh, I don't know that it is about our degrees 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:13.800 or what we real or how much information that sort 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.720 of thing. I think. It's like what you see is 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.320 not you know, the ability to sort of discern what 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:24.600 you see isn't what it really is. And that applies 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.280 across you know, the range of subject matter, so on 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:32.400 and so forth. That it takes work to investigate a subtext. 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.520 It takes effort. You have to put energy the expenditure 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.840 of energy into trying to figure out what somebody's trying 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.200 to communicate to you or what they're saying without saying it. 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:44.760 So I think a lot of us really do choose 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:48.800 in different relationships at different moments whether or not we 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.920 just want to keep this there or if we're willing 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.960 to go the layers beneath, and so maybe we're not 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:56.520 perpetually any of it. 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.959 That I think is so true because when I consider 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:04.440 the people who are like vulnerable off top, to me, 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:08.640 that's deeper than someone who is like, hey, how. 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:09.040 You doing you good? 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:09.480 You look good? 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:11.439 That's very surface. 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.240 But someone who can say, man, you know I've been 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:16.640 going through a lot, you know, behind all my taxis 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.959 I got, my kid is struggling like they're they're putting 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.120 it all on the surface, but they've done the work 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.040 for that stuff to come out. I think that's so different, 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.000 and that is a form of depth. And so that 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.760 is my question. When we consider the space that we're 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:31.880 creating on this podcast or the people that we want 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.600 to be in the world, is it really safer on 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.559 the shallow end? Is it safer in the shallow for us? 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.640 Then in the deep, where you know, on the shallow end. 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:41.679 Are you really known? 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:44.800 Can you really be yourself in the shallow when you 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:46.400 know your multi dimensional and. 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:47.360 Have all these layers? 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:47.560 Like? 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.720 Is that really safe where you're not yourself? Is it 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:52.760 safer for you Angela in the shallow? 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:53.120 No? 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:54.200 No, I'm a scorpiogret. 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.559 Yeah, like I need to to staring to see my soul. Yeah, 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:00.880 you know, and I want to see yours. And I 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.559 would prefer if I didn't have to navigate through some 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.520 crazy forests and some booby traps and stuff to get there. 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:10.520 I think for people who I know and love, I'm 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:12.320 like you, I want to be known. But I have 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:16.000 to say that is fairly new for me. You said 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.880 this to me a while ago. Angela and I had 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.200 two fights. We had one fight, No, we had to 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:24.480 who was the second one? 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:30.400 The second one we aired? Andrew was like, can we 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:31.360 all just get along? 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:33.360 People in the comments funny on Andrew they like, I 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.679 love the way Andrew handles Angela and Zif They're. 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.480 Like, okay, I don't have literally. 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:45.160 Our first one was over a guy, and you remember 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:47.360 we were at lunch and it was. 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:48.840 It wasn't my potential boot. 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:58.520 That sounds like you like Monica was, he don't deserve 0:12:58.600 --> 0:12:59.079 your ass. 0:12:59.160 --> 0:12:59.360 Yes. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.720 Angelo's point was he doesn't deserve you, not even to 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:03.440 breathe your air. 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:07.400 Yes, she was right for the record, but imagine that. 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:13.640 But what no much offensive? But I said it and 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:15.960 I echo it now. But what you said to me, 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.400 which I had this message, I'm Tiffany Cross, and I 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:21.480 approved that message. But what you said to me at 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.000 the time, I had not heard before. The question hadn't 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.560 been posed to me before. And you said, I wonder 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.360 when you come home to yourself? 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:29.400 Dot dot dot. 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.760 There was some other stuff after that, but I thought 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.680 about that, what does that mean to come home to myself? 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:38.360 Because I had been in a shallow with myself for 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:42.880 a long time. But when you go deep. Our other 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.360 sister friend, Latasha Brown, said this to me. I'll go 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.640 over laughing to cry, and I do. 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:50.760 It's good. 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:52.120 Latasha said this to me. 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:56.480 Latasha Brown, she was telling me when I was going 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:57.839 through a lot, and she said, you know. 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:02.360 You this sounds mean, but she is a body of love. 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.600 And she said, it's like you have a bowl of 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:10.440 shit and you have put flowers on top, you spray 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.320 perfume on top, and you present that. 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:13.920 To the world. 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.640 But this is like, this is okay, and you present 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:18.839 that to people who you want to get to know. 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:21.920 But the thing about shit, you can't cover up shit. 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.960 And until you deal with that shit deep inside, you 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.040 have to clean that out first for those flowers to 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:33.520 really bloom. And I hope this encourages somebody today because 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.200 that is when I realized, oh, this is the journey 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:37.040 home to myself. 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.360 It's not this happened to me and I'm moving on. 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:44.360 It's like, no feel your feelings, stick in your feelings, 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.040 be self, your friends, the people around you reflect back 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.800 to you who you are. See that ugly reflection and 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.520 work on it and clean it out and come home 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.440 to yourself. Because you leave home and you go out 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.080 there and work through all your trauma that your parents 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.760 in childhood on intentionally, and then on that journey home 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:04.720 back to yourself, it's like, oh, let me get rid 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.720 of this, get rid of this ship, and let flowers boom. 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.960 So I'm recently in deep with myself, but for a 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.920 long time, even unbeknownst to myself, I was in the shallow. 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.680 I ain't even excaded to get that. 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.560 I appreciate the trust, all right, y'all, we're going to 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:31.080 take a quick break and be right back. I think 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.680 for me, I I definitely took a long way round 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:39.640 to the invitation for people to know me more deeply, 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:45.600 and one because I didn't think people were that interested 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:48.560 and right it was, you know, I sort of saw 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.520 myself as a production wheel. What can you put out, 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.520 what can you put out? Give me more? You know, 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:58.240 you know, that sort of thing and therapy, largely thanks 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.640 to Angela, you know, and our Jay's insistence of sitting 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:06.080 down and just sort of figuring out how to come 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:09.320 home to myself, and that when you do that, you 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:15.960 are a lot less concerned about people's thoughts, perceptions, feelings 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.640 about you. Not in a disrespectful way, but just in 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.640 a way that, you know what, I'm gonna do this thing, 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:23.480 and I'm gonna do it because it's in my pleasure, 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.160 not because this is what your expectation is of me, 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:28.760 this is what you want from me, or I'm not 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:34.400 in a performative state, but rather if I come up 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.560 to you and you and I engage in something at 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.240 a deeper level, it's simply because it was in my 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:45.320 pleasure at the time. And if we don't get to that. 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.240 I'm not being superficial with you. I'm just saying, what's up, 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.880 how you doing. I hope all this well and I'm 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.080 moving on, and you should as well. We had a 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.560 positive encounter, because we did, and I do wish you well, 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.400 But I I didn't open an invitation to know that 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:06.840 the world was upside down for you, partly because everybody 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:10.160 doesn't deserve that. Have me earned that from you? Everyone 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:14.440 it shouldn't be treated to that. And I don't think 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.720 that is a denial of yourself. I don't think that 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.040 is a departure from who you are. I don't think 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:24.800 that is putting on certainly if you're acting without expectation. 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.880 I'm not doing this thing because I want this thing 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.639 to be said back to me in return. I didn't 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.080 do that thing for you to compliment me. I didn't 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.600 give that speech for you to be wild bowed over 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.600 and say, oh, you're an excellent speaker. I did it, 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:40.520 and I said it, and it came out that way 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.080 because it was in my pleasure, it was in my truth. 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:47.280 I stood there and if you get something from it, good, 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.560 and if you didn't, that's okay too, because I did 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:52.960 it not in service to that but in service to me, 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.320 and by being in service to me that God knows it, 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:58.879 I believe it will bless beyond. 0:17:59.080 --> 0:17:59.280 Yeah. 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.560 Wise, there was no intention of doing it that way 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.360 or doing it at all, and therefore it wouldn't have happened. 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.600 So I think we choose the moments at which we 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:14.359 have our reveals, whatever those reveals may be. And I 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.560 don't want to judge them those reveals. It's just that's 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:19.720 where you and I are with each other, and we 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.119 might encounter each other on another day and we may 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.399 be someplace different because you may be someplace different and 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.280 your expectation of me may be different at that time. 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.960 But what I like about this conversation is, I think 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.200 where we're going to get leading to is that we're 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:37.080 taking the value judgment off of the the shallow from 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:38.320 the depth, yeah. 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:39.120 And exploring what it means. 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:41.080 I appreciate you saying, is it the second time you 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.720 brought up reading something or like knowledge and what I 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:47.040 perceive it to be. But that's not really the shallow 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:48.680 or the deep like that's just you know. 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.800 It's the form of it. It's intellectual depth. But is 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.919 there there's there's another kind that I think results in 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:01.480 real human connection, right like timcy that people will say 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:05.800 means into me see and can you do that If 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:07.879 there's a shell or there's a layer, or there's a 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:12.439 barrier that really, you know, maybe came as a result 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.639 of a very deep, deeply wounded place, but it's created 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.840 a barrier that feels very shallow. We talk about creating 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.280 a safe space here. We can't create a safe space 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.240 here for our podcast if we're not safe spaces for 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:28.679 ourselves as co hosts and also as individuals. And that 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.320 is a regular journey and return home to yourselves. I 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:33.000 also don't want to take credit for that. That's a 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:37.800 yachty saying to return Yai home to ourselves, but it 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.480 is a regular return. Like you think about going home 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.000 every single day, you have to go and check back 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:47.239 in every single day, sometimes multiple times a day, Like 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:48.239 where am I? 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:48.680 Right? 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:50.760 Am I still? Who I say? I am? 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:51.399 Am? I? You know? 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.359 Where are my conflicts? Where are my flat sides? 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:55.840 Every single week on this podcast, I feel like there's 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.280 something glaring where I'm like, oh my god, I see 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:02.040 my hypocrisy here. I'm I'm gonna call it out so 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.360 I can be accountable to y'all our listeners and keep growing. 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.679 That is also a return home to myself. And you 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.280 were talking about the reveal we're revealing. We literally are 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:16.760 shedding layers, you know, every every day, probably multiple hours 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.320 in a day, we're shedding these layers. And so my 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:22.840 hope is that in this conversation that will never end 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.800 because we're constantly waiting a little bit deeper. We hope 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.320