Speaker 1: This is me, Craig Ferguson.
Speaker 2: I'm inviting you to come and see my brand new
Speaker 2: comedy hour. Well it's actually it's about an hour and
Speaker 2: a half and I don't have an opener because these
Speaker 2: guys cost money. But what I'm saying is I'll be
Speaker 2: on stage for a while. Anyway, come and see me
Speaker 2: live on the Pants on Fire Tour in your region.
Speaker 2: Tickets our own sale now, and we'll be adding more
Speaker 2: as the tour continues throughout twenty twenty five and beyond.
Speaker 2: For a full list of dates, go to the Craig
Speaker 2: Ferguson show dot com. See you on the road, My DearS.
Speaker 2: My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast
Speaker 2: is Joy. I talk to interest in people about what
Speaker 2: brings them happiness. Here's d Drich Bader, a great actor
Speaker 2: who's been in everything you've ever liked.
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding, wasn't it this enjoy when d drig
Speaker 1: qwen I yes, I know, yeah, it's not about me,
Speaker 1: it's about you.
Speaker 2: It's about you, and I'm just I will say no
Speaker 2: it is because I want to tell I want to
Speaker 2: start with this because when we were working together on
Speaker 2: the Drew Carey Show, and you were paying oswood Lee Harvey,
Speaker 2: which is still maybe the best name for a characters.
Speaker 1: I think it's great. We gotta laugh every time. Well,
Speaker 1: because it's funny.
Speaker 2: It's stupid and funny and stupid and funny gets funnier
Speaker 2: the longer you say. But oswood Lee Harvey, which is
Speaker 2: on a par with count Al you card as a
Speaker 2: stupid name.
Speaker 1: But you were playing that fairly early on in the run.
Speaker 2: Now I'm going to say, because you were the only
Speaker 2: person that I had heard of when I started that show,
Speaker 2: because you had done the Beverly Hillbillies, played Jeth Throw
Speaker 2: in the Beverly Hill Billies.
Speaker 1: And you were really good at it. Well, thank you.
Speaker 1: And that was a hit movie, wasn't it.
Speaker 3: No, that was a bomb, Otherwise I wouldn't have been
Speaker 3: on the Drew care be a major movie star, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean you you can be a movie star and
Speaker 2: being a boat. You are a movie star. You were
Speaker 2: in everything.
Speaker 3: No, it didn't make enough money to be attractive to
Speaker 3: hire me. Success breed success, and only people only want
Speaker 3: to be associated with success.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that might explain my life a little bit.
Speaker 1: My friends, So people. I see. That's why I have
Speaker 1: no friends, but you you only one i'd heard of.
Speaker 2: And I remember, do you remember when we did the
Speaker 2: full Monty episode of the Drew Carey Show, Yes, of course,
Speaker 2: and we all got naked. Yes, And then we went
Speaker 2: to Las Vegas and Tim Allen's plane, Yes, and everyone
Speaker 2: got trash.
Speaker 3: I got incredibly drush.
Speaker 2: You were the drunkest I like, remember I'm saying this
Speaker 2: and I'm Scottish. You're one of the drunkest people I've
Speaker 2: ever seen.
Speaker 1: The fact that I could stand was. I was amazed
Speaker 1: at how drunk you were.
Speaker 2: But you were like walking around in loud with very
Speaker 2: scary eyes. Yeah, you were very scary dancing. And then
Speaker 2: you threw a plastic Boston.
Speaker 1: I was remembering that this morning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you threw a bottle off the like the top
Speaker 2: floor of a hotel and it landed on these women
Speaker 2: three stories up. I was like that, and I ever
Speaker 2: said to Kathy, who was the only other person not
Speaker 2: I was like, that could have killed someone. Kathy, she said,
Speaker 2: I know, and then we agreed we were the lamest
Speaker 2: people in Las Vegas.
Speaker 1: I was so well, did you totally took care of me?
Speaker 3: By the way.
Speaker 1: There's no way I would have made it into a
Speaker 1: hotel room. I was scared.
Speaker 3: We slept together.
Speaker 1: We didn't well, I was there wasn't a lot of
Speaker 1: sleep in. Nobody slept on. I think I slept a
Speaker 1: little bit.
Speaker 3: That's a couple of hours.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I mean, how did you guys do that
Speaker 2: given the fact no one was on cocaine as far
Speaker 2: as I knew, or were you guys on cocaine?
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, so wasn't into drugs just booze.
Speaker 2: No, he was just a boos and not much of
Speaker 2: a boozer really, No, he was kind of a way.
Speaker 3: But Ryan Styles is the Keith Richards of the unbelievable.
Speaker 3: He has a hollow leg.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He My problem drank?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, My problem was that time and every time
Speaker 3: you did see me drunk was when I tried to
Speaker 3: keep up with Bryan. I'm not blaming. I take responsibility
Speaker 3: for him much. I drank totally, but.
Speaker 1: I don't see I remember you being drunk that much.
Speaker 3: But every time drunk, because you're saying no, it is
Speaker 3: that I was trying to keep up with them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just as the kind of a guy thing.
Speaker 3: And once you get into it, then you're like, and
Speaker 3: then he's just pooring and he's fun as you know.
Speaker 1: He's really very, very fun. But here's his trick.
Speaker 2: When he gets drunk, and even when he's not drunk,
Speaker 2: doesn't move that much of you know, it's he just
Speaker 2: kind of, oh my gosh, stands.
Speaker 3: That's totally his trick.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Is his trick is he doesn't try and move his legs. No,
Speaker 2: he doesn't or even face. Yeah, he just like says
Speaker 2: funny things, little.
Speaker 3: Bit and it's hilarious and it gets funnier and he's
Speaker 3: very improvy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's very good at that. Yeah, he's very good.
Speaker 2: Did you do that Emperor who's laying? Isn't anyway?
Speaker 3: I never did, but I will say, yeah, the funniest
Speaker 3: comedic improvisation that I have ever seen, and I've seen
Speaker 3: a lot, was when we had the final Drew Carey
Speaker 3: show dinner and you were invited. We had it on
Speaker 3: Las Siena at some fancy restaurant. Oh, I got like
Speaker 3: a private it was a private room room. And it
Speaker 3: was at the end of the ninth season, which you
Speaker 3: were not on.
Speaker 1: I wasn't on that. I was making Saving Grace.
Speaker 3: You were amazing that you showed up, but at that
Speaker 3: point the cast had gotten so fractious. Only Ryan and
Speaker 3: I were speaking to each other. I think Kathy and
Speaker 3: I wish those ye no, no no, but I mean as
Speaker 3: far as everybody that was there, we were still talking
Speaker 3: to Kathy, but there was a lot of acrom It
Speaker 3: was tense. It was like family at that point. It
Speaker 3: was like family. That's my point. And Craig, you were
Speaker 3: so funny. There was something about the awkwardness of the situation.
Speaker 3: You literally were the funniest person. Don't see it speaks
Speaker 3: about this, My wife speaks about this all the time,
Speaker 3: really as being the funniest comedy set anyone has ever done,
Speaker 3: because there was something about the awkwardness of it that
Speaker 3: sparked you. And everything we said that was passive aggressive
Speaker 3: to each other you picked up on and made a
Speaker 3: joke out of and it was hilarious. It was like
Speaker 3: you were trying to make things better.
Speaker 2: That's exactly like my family life when I was a kid.
Speaker 3: You were just trying to make things better.
Speaker 2: I was just trying to make things better. I swear
Speaker 2: to God. Three congression is the Scottish thing. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: it is like, oh, and the interesting thing is I
Speaker 2: also don't remember my childhood and I was sober. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: it's that most of your childhood, well not all of it,
Speaker 2: but a fair amount of it.
Speaker 1: My childhood. Your childhood is very different though.
Speaker 2: You're like, you're DC, right, you're like government family and
Speaker 2: with your father.
Speaker 3: Spy or something. Yeah, I guess I can say that now. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he was in the CIA, and he was in the CIA, right, yes, yeah,
Speaker 3: and he was chief of Saffath Center Foreign Relations Committee.
Speaker 3: He ended up being Assistant Secretary of State during the
Speaker 3: Clint administration.
Speaker 2: So was he like did he do black holes and
Speaker 2: stuff like that? Was he you know, away from you
Speaker 2: know him, he did go away from home. All of
Speaker 2: the stuff that he did in the field was before
Speaker 2: I was born. But then he always kept a hand
Speaker 2: in and he oddly enough, he was on the Senate
Speaker 2: Select Committee on Intelligence better known as the Church Committee,
Speaker 2: and really went after the CIA. And because he was
Speaker 2: in the CIA at one point, he was able to
Speaker 2: use his contacts for those that were within the CIA
Speaker 2: who were upset with the way the agency was going.
Speaker 2: So the implication being that there is some corruption and
Speaker 2: intelligence community because now should they find I hard to
Speaker 2: believe anywhere that humans have power, that there would be
Speaker 2: any kind of form of corruption is unbelieving.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think his greatest claim to fame, the
Speaker 3: thing that was brought up in his obituary was that
Speaker 3: he was the person that supplied Senator Fulbright, the Senator
Speaker 3: from Arkansas, with the information about the Gulf of Tonkin,
Speaker 3: which made Robert McNamara retire.
Speaker 1: That it was a lie. Wow, that was in his obituary.
Speaker 2: So that, I mean, that's a very impressive resume and
Speaker 2: a very kind of specific world. Yes, And I was
Speaker 2: always kind of intrigued, is how you why you weren't
Speaker 2: drawn into that? It feels like like the gravitational pill
Speaker 2: of that kind of thing would.
Speaker 1: Be very strong. Were you tempted at that point?
Speaker 3: No, I just never never tempted. I think because I
Speaker 3: saw how the sausage was made. The thing that it
Speaker 3: did prepare me for in Hollywood was something that you
Speaker 3: had alluded to earlier in this podcast, which is the
Speaker 3: cyclical nature of a career, right, the shifting sands. My
Speaker 3: dad like to call it the magic hat. So if
Speaker 3: you have the magic hat on, everybody loves you, but
Speaker 3: it's not you. It's the hat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very holy. Would that's all about? It really
Speaker 2: is as well. But I mean your career is I mean,
Speaker 2: you have had a stellar career. I was quite jealous
Speaker 2: as I watched you. How was that even possible? You
Speaker 2: were on great shows. You're on Beep, which is an
Speaker 2: amazing show. You're on BoJack, which is like seminal. I
Speaker 2: mean it's like rewriting the game. Yeah, is it something?
Speaker 3: I would say? Better Things was also I don't know
Speaker 3: if you saw it, but Better Things is also a
Speaker 3: good show. I did not see Better Things. Better Things
Speaker 3: is a very solid, beautiful show.
Speaker 2: So the kind of thing that there's always been a
Speaker 2: great depth to your work, which I don't think you
Speaker 2: were used and I feel this a little bit a
Speaker 2: couple of actors. Actually, I didn't see that you get
Speaker 2: used that way In the Drew Carey Show when.
Speaker 1: You were playing Oswood Lee Harvey.
Speaker 2: It was a very it means a fun show, but
Speaker 2: it was kind of two dimensional in many ways.
Speaker 3: Well, it was entirely Yeah, we were like hothouse flowers.
Speaker 3: We weren't real people. We were just vehicles for jokes.
Speaker 3: That said, I totally enjoyed it. Yeah, me too, Well,
Speaker 3: not totally but a lot of it. I think I
Speaker 3: enjoyed it more than you did.
Speaker 2: I think you probably did. I think that it's funny
Speaker 2: I remember, and I don't think it was because of
Speaker 2: the size of the part. You had a good part
Speaker 2: and you were you were a rock solid performer, like
Speaker 2: you fucking kicked ass every week and it like rock
Speaker 2: star every week. So I don't think it was the
Speaker 2: size of the part. I think it's because you were
Speaker 2: more ambitious than me. Definitely I was. I don't think
Speaker 2: I still suffer from that, but I did.
Speaker 3: I did. I think at the time, yeah, definitely. And
Speaker 3: from my perspective, I'm not no.
Speaker 1: I think no. I think you're right.
Speaker 2: I think that I was looking at you guys, and
Speaker 2: I felt like you were all doing better than me,
Speaker 2: which is what ambitious people always think, like everybody's doing
Speaker 2: better than.
Speaker 3: Me, and that's such true.
Speaker 1: It's like it's fucking stupid.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then like after I had gotten maybe I don't know,
Speaker 2: I was about eighteen months and doing the late night
Speaker 2: show and I ran and I think it was Jerry,
Speaker 2: the director. Jerry used to do the show, and he said, wow, yeah,
Speaker 2: if ever I I you know, it was him, and
Speaker 2: Drew said, if ever a guy needed a show with
Speaker 2: his name on it, it's you, Craig, And I went, really,
Speaker 2: so I'm starting next to Drew Carey from the fucking
Speaker 2: Drew Carey Show for nine years. He's like, yeah, it's different,
Speaker 2: it's not You didn't suffer from that ambstion? Did you
Speaker 2: not feel that like, I mean, you were coming off
Speaker 2: like the Beverly Hillbillies, big giant movie.
Speaker 1: Did you not feel was your ambition not burning hall
Speaker 1: at that point?
Speaker 3: Well, I was disappointed by the reaction of the Beverly Hillbillies.
Speaker 3: I thought I was going to be a movie star
Speaker 3: for a brief time, and then I dipped back into
Speaker 3: television frankly because I ran out of money. And then
Speaker 3: I only did the Drew Carey Show because I was
Speaker 3: trying to drive.
Speaker 1: I never told you this story. No, I don't know
Speaker 1: this story.
Speaker 3: So the Drew Carey Show was my second pilot of
Speaker 3: the season. I was on the revamping of Margaret Chow's Show,
Speaker 3: but then about I didn't believe in the show. About
Speaker 3: halfway through the show, my agent like came and said
Speaker 3: I have to go and the Drew Carey Show or
Speaker 3: and I said, how do I get off this show?
Speaker 1: And he goes, you're halfway through the pilot. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is really a mistake.
Speaker 3: Everybody knows that, you know, and and he goes, okay, well,
Speaker 3: so you know we're going to second position with something.
Speaker 3: So he's like, okay, great, And I tested for a
Speaker 3: pilot called Partners. Tate Donovan did it and John Cryer
Speaker 3: got my partner. Okay, but anyway, they low balled me
Speaker 3: over at Sony. I'm working for right now. Actually I'm
Speaker 3: lucky Hank totally, I'm.
Speaker 1: Working for that too.
Speaker 3: Sony's great, my favorite people. Yeah, but they totally low
Speaker 3: balled me, and so I called my agent and I
Speaker 3: was like, that's I mean, our quote is there. I
Speaker 3: mean they just have the quote and they're not coming back.
Speaker 3: And he goes, well, you know, you got to get
Speaker 3: something else and we'll just fight him.
Speaker 1: Off and use it as a bargaining.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So he goes, there's a show a stand up
Speaker 3: if you order Drew Carry and I was like no,
Speaker 3: and he goes, well, he did well on this other
Speaker 3: stand up show and I don't watch that stand up show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it.
Speaker 3: Was such a TV snop if you remember, like I'm
Speaker 3: much better now that I have a kids.
Speaker 2: And it's like, you are one of the people that
Speaker 2: I would say grew the fuck up since I met them.
Speaker 2: I mean you, honestly, I mean you were never you
Speaker 2: were always a very nice man, but no, you were,
Speaker 2: but like you grew up. It's so patantly obviously when
Speaker 2: you had your kids, you're like, oh no, wait a minute, yeah,
Speaker 2: resay auck.
Speaker 3: Button going on anyway, So I went on the Drew
Speaker 3: carry Show pilot and they wanted to test me, so
Speaker 3: we put them against one another, and Sony did come
Speaker 3: up to my quote, and so did the Drew Carry Show.
Speaker 3: But and I just showed up for the test and
Speaker 3: I did it like blah blah blah, because my test
Speaker 3: for the Sony thing was the same day. So I
Speaker 3: just was like, Okay, yeah, this is the morning thing
Speaker 3: and then I'm gonna go Like some people would have
Speaker 3: a cup of coffee and a shit, and I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm going to test for a show.
Speaker 2: But the Drew Carey show was kind of like a
Speaker 2: cup of coffee and the ship is the whole idea,
Speaker 2: this process, yeah, yeah, the circle of so and then
Speaker 2: I went off to the Sony thing.
Speaker 3: And then I didn't get the anything, and I got
Speaker 3: the Drew Carry Show. And my agent called me to
Speaker 3: tell me I got the Drew Carry Show and I
Speaker 3: yelled at him. I was like, what have you done?
Speaker 3: That's crazy? And then the show was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nine years, it's crazy fucking years. I didn't do
Speaker 2: the last year. I didn't do the first year either.
Speaker 2: You didn't do the first year? Yeah, I joined after that.
Speaker 2: I was going to be in for like three episodes
Speaker 2: or so.
Speaker 3: The first year wasn't good, and I hope I'm not
Speaker 3: crushing fans of the show, but I really didn't like
Speaker 3: the show. I actually tried to get off the show.
Speaker 3: In my defense, I had done seven pilots before the
Speaker 3: Drew Carry Show, so I thought, I'll just get another
Speaker 3: show and I'll be back. Okay, it's image. So yeah,
Speaker 3: they didn't let me off, and I wasn't crazy. I
Speaker 3: loved Drew and I loved Ryan and Kathy was great,
Speaker 3: but I didn't love the scripts. I didn't love my part.
Speaker 3: And I thought, this is to speak to what you
Speaker 3: were saying about the ambition. I thought, like, I'm a
Speaker 3: second banana on a show. I should be the first banana.
Speaker 3: And I should get off the show. Bruce didn't let
Speaker 3: me off the show, and I'm very grateful for that
Speaker 3: because the showrunner.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the second year of.
Speaker 3: The show was so much better, and that was trapped.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also I had arrived and then everything.
Speaker 3: And I'm not joking about that. It actually made the
Speaker 3: show happen because you were a great antagonist to him.
Speaker 3: What it made his work? Sheer fucking hell.
Speaker 1: You're right. There's more sticks to throw the protagonist than.
Speaker 3: The voiceover thing. It's nothing against Kevin Pollack. He's fantas
Speaker 3: he's a great actor. Yeah, he's great. So, but he
Speaker 3: was a voice and we saw him at the end
Speaker 3: of the first year. It was a dumb gimmick.
Speaker 2: Well he was if anyone doesn't know, he was Drew's voice.
Speaker 2: He was Drew's boss in the first year of the show,
Speaker 2: but you never really saw him.
Speaker 1: It was just on a kind of like speakerphone. That's right.
Speaker 1: And then he turned up for the last episode.
Speaker 2: But at that time, and Kevin said this to me himself,
Speaker 2: he said, I was too expensive at the time. They
Speaker 2: couldn't afford me. So I was doing a lot of movies. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was a legit movie.
Speaker 3: Start at the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they offered mister Wick to Hugh Laurie
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Kid, Yeah, I believe so.
Speaker 2: I think you said no, I wow, I'm better than that.
Speaker 1: That would have been a mistake. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think he'd been pretty good. I don't get me wrong,
Speaker 3: he's amazing. Yeah, but I think that that wouldn't have worked.
Speaker 3: I think that you were I think personality wise.
Speaker 2: I think for me, the Drew Carey Show was that
Speaker 2: its best in that second third fourth.
Speaker 1: Those were good years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when we were like doing the live episodes and
Speaker 2: doing the like big musical numbers and all that.
Speaker 3: But also the episode that you were talking about, the
Speaker 3: full Monty episode, that's a that's an excellent.
Speaker 1: It's a great episode.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really not scene when we're all on the
Speaker 3: couch and you come in and you talk about your
Speaker 3: addiction to the ponies and Oswald thinks that you sleep
Speaker 3: with ponies.
Speaker 1: It's very good.
Speaker 2: It's memory John carol Lynch and Drew dancing to the
Speaker 2: Heart music to Windy as well. It's like and but
Speaker 2: there you look at John carro Lynch as well, that
Speaker 2: guy who's going on to like.
Speaker 1: Direct these like serious movies and he's.
Speaker 2: Like, big, and you've done that too, You you carved
Speaker 2: a legitimate career after after the after the show, I think,
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 1: Well, it's true.
Speaker 2: I mean, but none of us were part of that
Speaker 2: kind of whose lyne improv world.
Speaker 1: I mean, Ryan did it. It was kind of Ryan
Speaker 1: and Drew really or.
Speaker 3: Who's like really Ryan? Yeah, well he was funny because
Speaker 3: he laughed, and.
Speaker 2: It was funny because he laughed and he liked being
Speaker 2: around everybody doing it, and he's genuinely fun guy. Yes,
Speaker 2: he's a nice guy. But Ryan's the improv genius. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, he's a genius. Yeah, he's truly incredible. No,
Speaker 2: they asked me to do the show a number of times.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they asked you. No, I don't really, I
Speaker 2: don't think they ever did, or maybe they asked me
Speaker 2: to do it once.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Sure. I like, because I'm Scott, I
Speaker 1: like to go.
Speaker 2: They never asked me, and they left it, but I
Speaker 2: don't think they did, and they probably.
Speaker 1: But I think they probably did ask me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, i'd be shocked.
Speaker 1: What I don't know? I was.
Speaker 2: I was never that comfortable and weirdly enough for what
Speaker 2: I did later on. I was very uncomfortable with improv,
Speaker 2: very uncomfortable with that group improv.
Speaker 1: I always felt I can't.
Speaker 3: Really do it is a different beast it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, did you like? Did you like the
Speaker 1: experience of doing it?
Speaker 3: One of my favorite parts about acting is knowing what
Speaker 3: I'm going to say?
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that great?
Speaker 3: I love it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what I'm going to say right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so it's a little unnerving.
Speaker 2: But if you get to practice what you're going to
Speaker 2: say a high voice, do it.
Speaker 3: This is actually saying seeing what you're actually saying as
Speaker 3: opposed to what you're saying. All of that, all text analysis,
Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff you can really dive into
Speaker 3: that doesn't happen in life. Like we just blurted out.
Speaker 2: I think I think I just realized why you've done
Speaker 2: so well as an actor because you say what it's
Speaker 2: like text analysis and stuff like, I'm.
Speaker 1: Like, oh god, he's a fucking real actor.
Speaker 2: He's a proper actor that does things. Hello, this is
Speaker 2: Greig Ferguson, and I want to let you know I
Speaker 2: have a brand new stand up comedy special out now
Speaker 2: on YouTube. It's called I'm So Happy and I would
Speaker 2: be so happy if you checked it out.
Speaker 1: To watch the special.
Speaker 2: Just go to my YouTube channel at the Craig Ferguson
Speaker 2: Show and is this right there?
Speaker 1: Just click it and play it and it's free. I
Speaker 1: can't look.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to come around your house and show
Speaker 2: you how to do it. If you can't do it,
Speaker 2: then you can't have it. But if you can figure
Speaker 2: it out, it's yours. I've trained you you had Did
Speaker 2: you train? Yes?
Speaker 3: Where did you go and train? I went to North
Speaker 3: Carolina School the Arts. That's that's Winston. That's pretty fancy,
Speaker 3: isn't it. It's fancy dancy. Yeah, it's fancy.
Speaker 1: Is that?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 1: Did you come to Hollywood straight after that? Or did
Speaker 1: you go to a theater?
Speaker 3: I was going to go into theater, and then I
Speaker 3: got a pilot in between my sophomore and junior year,
Speaker 3: a Western. We were on vacation in Santa Fe, met
Speaker 3: a casting director to dinner party. Short story, long story short.
Speaker 3: I got cast in this pilot and then in western,
Speaker 3: in a Western.
Speaker 1: My fucking dream. It was reallystern.
Speaker 3: Honest to god, I was going to be a stage
Speaker 3: actor before that time, but it was so much fun.
Speaker 3: To dress up like a cowboy. Yeah, And that was
Speaker 3: Sag and a lot of my friends that had graduated,
Speaker 3: who I thought were much more talented than myself, that
Speaker 3: were in New York and trying to be stage actors.
Speaker 3: They're having a very hard time and it's.
Speaker 2: Very difficult the stage world, I think, so it even
Speaker 2: work it is.
Speaker 3: My father's idea was that I move out here because
Speaker 3: I'm already Sag, go like Solin, to a five year
Speaker 3: plan and then move to New York if it doesn't
Speaker 3: work out. And I thought that was a pretty good idea,
Speaker 3: So I did that.
Speaker 2: So your dad, who's this very interesting government figure, was
Speaker 2: cool with your going on at show.
Speaker 1: But this idea, it was his idea for me to
Speaker 1: drop out of North Carolina School the arts and just
Speaker 1: get started. See he he was kind of out the
Speaker 1: box thinker then, wasn't he.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think he knew me. Yeah, and he
Speaker 3: knew that I was going to be on I mean,
Speaker 3: you know his thing when you know, when he brought
Speaker 3: up the idea, he said, you know, you've got a
Speaker 3: job at a dinner party. I think he'll be okay.
Speaker 3: And then he paid my rent for the first two
Speaker 3: years which really really helped that does how So, Yeah,
Speaker 3: because I didn't need to get a straight job. I
Speaker 3: worked enough where I could feed myself. This is after
Speaker 3: the first three or four months when I tried to
Speaker 3: make it completely on my own and I had trouble
Speaker 3: at the beginning. I got a job in two weeks,
Speaker 3: my second pilot, but I went through the money really
Speaker 3: really fast because I thought I was made. I thought
Speaker 3: I paid my dues. It'd been two weeks. Yeah, you
Speaker 3: know that. That's a common thing though.
Speaker 2: He used to say, like the best time to buy
Speaker 2: a house in la is just after the TV season
Speaker 2: starts and shows get start getting canceled and the actors
Speaker 2: who thought that they were going to be Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, I just burnt through it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And you know, I bought every type of thing that
Speaker 3: you could put into your body, and as.
Speaker 1: You know, like you run out the money really quick.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you were never like a druggiarron weed and
Speaker 3: a lot of booze.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I never even saw you with much in the way
Speaker 2: we know, like the way weed is now, like the
Speaker 2: entire smells.
Speaker 3: Like weed all the time. I know. Well, I just
Speaker 3: shot in Vancouver. The Vancouver is so much weed. Like
Speaker 3: I smelled cigarette smoke and I was like, what the
Speaker 3: hell is that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 2: It's like it's like a flashback when you smell just tobacco.
Speaker 1: Yeah I know. I mean New York smells like weed.
Speaker 1: Most of LA smells like weed.
Speaker 2: Chicago, Denver, Yeah, oh my god, that's just like you
Speaker 2: can get high just going there.
Speaker 3: So you Gela and you're like the reason that you
Speaker 3: didn't see it is that I quit. I had told
Speaker 3: Dulcie when we first Real Life to go my wife
Speaker 3: of twenty six years, it's.
Speaker 1: Going to say, you guys get married.
Speaker 2: When we were doing Drew carry right right, and yeah,
Speaker 2: between the first.
Speaker 3: Second and things in the third season, Yeah, she wanted
Speaker 3: me to quit. And that was basically like if we
Speaker 3: go forward, because I smoked a lot, She's just like
Speaker 3: put her.
Speaker 1: It was basically like she's a very sensible person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll see I always it's very one of those
Speaker 2: I mean, look, you're married, you know better than me.
Speaker 2: But she always seemed to me with someone who had
Speaker 2: their ship together. It was kind of like an impressive
Speaker 2: kind of organized.
Speaker 3: More than anyone else has has helped me with my
Speaker 3: career because of just not just being encouraging, but also
Speaker 3: pushing me in a way and disciplining me. See.
Speaker 2: I think that that is very important in her career
Speaker 2: because I was much more scatter show and much more
Speaker 2: ambitious until I.
Speaker 1: Met Megan, who we've been together eighteen years and and.
Speaker 2: You knew me before that, And all I could think
Speaker 2: of was the success must be it must be success,
Speaker 2: and success is a big hit and money. It's not
Speaker 2: career fulfillment. It's not there's no other sight. It's a
Speaker 2: two dimensional thing and so one or a zero. And
Speaker 2: I understand that though. Yeah, I think for young people,
Speaker 2: I think it's okay. I think and also it's it's
Speaker 2: what Hollywood tells you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was somebody I talked to. I think it
Speaker 2: was Peter Medak. Do you know the director Peter Meadow.
Speaker 3: I know his name, Peter.
Speaker 2: He directed a lot of episodes of The Wire. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but he made he made a couple of great movies,
Speaker 2: a movie about the craze, and he made a movie
Speaker 2: called The Ruling Class with Peter ro'tool back the Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a great movie, fantastic. That's his first movie. Yeah, ok, yeah,
Speaker 2: and he forget he talks talks like, you know, it's
Speaker 2: sort of well for my purposes, he talks like a
Speaker 2: you know, an old Nazi from nineteen fifties movie. He
Speaker 2: doesn't talk like this at all, but that sort of
Speaker 2: version of this. Okay, He's like, well, you know, see
Speaker 2: it's the singer's clerk. You know, the movie Twister makes
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty million dollars, so movie Fanny and Alexander.
Speaker 1: Makes I don't know what fifty dollars.
Speaker 2: Therefore, the movie Twister is a better movie than Fanny
Speaker 2: and Alexander. Yes, oh no, of course they answer is no, and.
Speaker 1: You get that. I like guys like that. I like
Speaker 1: guys like that. Who who ca to see it?
Speaker 2: And I think that that comes with age and experience
Speaker 2: and wearing the hat and not wearing the hat.
Speaker 3: So that's right. Yeah, do you've the best Yeah, if
Speaker 3: you have a career where you have worn the hat
Speaker 3: and then you don't wear the hat, and then somebody
Speaker 3: gives you the hat again, Yeah, and that's when you're
Speaker 3: really appreciative of the Hat's.
Speaker 1: Next to have it back. Yeah, I think of it.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like the Sean Connery Czar doors.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we bring it up all the time.
Speaker 2: But that's like Sean Connery, Yeah and yeah, he's in
Speaker 2: a MANKINI. At one point he must have been thinking,
Speaker 2: what the fucking what happened? Well, the fucking MANKINI fucking Now.
Speaker 2: I know that some people love the movie Outdoors, but
Speaker 2: I don't think Sean loved it. We were talking about
Speaker 2: Sean Connery the other day. We totally were right, because
Speaker 2: when did you me him? I met him at an
Speaker 2: award saying he was getting a lifetime award. This is
Speaker 2: during the right before.
Speaker 3: The Hillbillies came out, and I had a publicist because
Speaker 3: it felt like I should right understand. So I went
Speaker 3: to a bunch of parties and one of them was
Speaker 3: this award that he was given, and Maria Brown told
Speaker 3: the story about the director of the name of the Rose,
Speaker 3: who was supposedly very abusive to basically everybody and the
Speaker 3: crew and the actors and really just awful and would
Speaker 3: lose his shit continually, which is really a terrible thing
Speaker 3: for him.
Speaker 1: Terrible thing.
Speaker 3: You're the one who's supposed to be in control. That's
Speaker 3: the idea. You're not allowed that he really shouldn't. But anyway,
Speaker 3: Connor said nothing through the entire time to this guy.
Speaker 3: He just did his job and he talked to the actor.
Speaker 3: He was fine, but he just did his job. He
Speaker 3: didn't say anything to the director. And then the director
Speaker 3: took a big stick and was about to hit a
Speaker 3: horse that he wasn't doing what he wanted the horse
Speaker 3: to do right, and Connory grabbed his wrist and pushed
Speaker 3: it down, and you could tell that the director really
Speaker 3: was like fighting. But Connorie is a big fella universe. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so he's holding him down and he goes, not the
Speaker 3: horse fuck line you just yeah, okay, just right.
Speaker 1: Away, mister. I was telling you my wife.
Speaker 2: We had only been dating a short period of time
Speaker 2: and I had to give an award to shown at
Speaker 2: something Holly would do. He was getting them every every week,
Speaker 2: and I was giving him this award. I gave him
Speaker 2: the award and then we get introduced afterwards, and Meghan's
Speaker 2: wearing her dress and went over and I said yeah.
Speaker 1: He said, creg gets very nice to me. Yes, thanks
Speaker 1: for the all that was very pleasant what you shared,
Speaker 1: Thank you, And I said, thank you very much, Sewing.
Speaker 2: This is my wife, Meghan, and he said, very nice
Speaker 2: to meet you.
Speaker 1: Megan and her tits blush physically, I don't even know
Speaker 1: that tits could blush.
Speaker 2: She she just went oh and they lit up like
Speaker 2: it was fucking Halloween.
Speaker 4: Like I didn't even know these things could do that. Well,
Speaker 4: they don't do it for you, but that's Sean.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, he could make women
Speaker 2: sweats blush.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's that's quite a sky. He was fucking great.
Speaker 3: Yeah for me, he was.
Speaker 2: He and Belly Corny were kind of like the Jackie
Speaker 2: Robinson thank you, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: What for you was what did you watch when you
Speaker 1: were a kid, And you go, I want a piece
Speaker 1: of that. I want I want to be able to
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 3: My origin story is that we were living in Paris.
Speaker 3: My dad was a European matress. We were living in Paris.
Speaker 3: We were he was a European representative for the Ford Foundation.
Speaker 3: This is shortly after he brought down Robert McNamara. He
Speaker 3: was told to basically get out of town.
Speaker 2: Not only can you not have the hat, but you
Speaker 2: better get the fuck out of him for a while.
Speaker 3: Yeah you really lost the hat. Yeah just rolled down
Speaker 3: the street. You're not going to go that hat. He
Speaker 3: ended up being fine, but but yes, that we he
Speaker 3: was definitely out. But anyway, I basically just learned English
Speaker 3: I was little, and then there was French, right, and
Speaker 3: so I was really deeply alienated by the whole thing
Speaker 3: and kind of a troubled little kid, little loner, weird kid.
Speaker 3: At this point, I am about three and a half four,
Speaker 3: three and a half four, okay, and my mom paid
Speaker 3: were my siblings to take me to the movies, and
Speaker 3: I very quickly figured out that that was the deal,
Speaker 3: because my sister would bring all over stone friends and
Speaker 3: they would, you know, we would go see Freda Stare movies,
Speaker 3: which I totally love. But I really loved Charlie Chaplin.
Speaker 3: How interesting, and there was something about the combination of
Speaker 3: the path I was, the physical comedy and just the
Speaker 3: warmth that I really love the sweetness. Now, a lot
Speaker 3: of people think it's too Treaquily. Buster Keaton is probably
Speaker 3: for the hardcore fans, and I'm a huge fan. Don't
Speaker 3: get me wrong. For the hardcore fan, he's just comedy.
Speaker 3: It's it's very little sentiment. But for me, I love
Speaker 3: the sentiment. Yeah, I was a little kid, you know,
Speaker 3: and the first one I saw it was the kid
Speaker 3: so I was like, this.
Speaker 2: Guy this is and I could hang with this guy
Speaker 2: because he hangs out with kids and soaked up.
Speaker 3: My little I worked up a little Charlie Chaplin act
Speaker 3: in my room in our apartments, and then I guess
Speaker 3: about a year later, we went to the theater. My
Speaker 3: fake auntie Auntie sure took me and I was my
Speaker 3: fake you know, my mom, but anyway, she took me.
Speaker 3: This one theater that I loved the most because there
Speaker 3: was a live musical accompaniment. The guy improvised music to
Speaker 3: whatever was playing. And it was my favorite because it
Speaker 3: was just like being in the theater in the original.
Speaker 2: It's weird because it, I mean, this sounds like you
Speaker 2: grew up in the nineteen twenties.
Speaker 1: It's just like this is what nineteen seventies. Seventy yeah, yeah, yeah, seventies.
Speaker 1: Someone room there.
Speaker 3: Anyway, So the film burned, got caught and burned, it
Speaker 3: went on fire, yeah, and everybody booed, and the lights
Speaker 3: came back on, and I ran in between the audience
Speaker 3: and the screen because nobody boos Charlie Chaplin. Like I
Speaker 3: just wasn't going to allow that to happen. So I
Speaker 3: jumped in between and I did my little Charlie Chaplin,
Speaker 3: the organ player played.
Speaker 2: And you did it for the audience. I did it
Speaker 2: for the audience and the French audience that's fan and
Speaker 2: were the good. They love you. I got a standing ovation. Jesus,
Speaker 2: that is so great. Now, I think we have to
Speaker 2: make a movie of your life because that is such
Speaker 2: a good.
Speaker 3: N't you think it's crazy? It's lovely, Yeah, it's funny. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you actually have memory of it?
Speaker 3: I mean, I you know, there's so many questions about
Speaker 3: recovered memory. I actually did recover this memory by watching Chaplain,
Speaker 3: the biopic with Robert Downey Junior. There is a scene
Speaker 3: in it where his mother, who was played by Charlie
Speaker 3: Chaplin's actual daughter, Geraldine Chaplin in the movie, plays her
Speaker 3: own grandmother, grandmother who has a nervous breakdown on stage.
Speaker 3: When Chaplain himself is about three or four. It's right,
Speaker 3: she was very ill and anyway, she had a nervous
Speaker 3: breakdown on stage and everybody started a boo, and he thought,
Speaker 3: no one is going to boo my mother. So he
Speaker 3: jumped on stage and started doing a panamime act. Because
Speaker 3: he had no act. It was the only thing that
Speaker 3: he can think of. And I was sitting in the
Speaker 3: theater and I was like, shefu.
Speaker 2: That's amazing, that's amazing. I remember, and your family remember it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's crazy. Yeah, but typical of my family. Like I
Speaker 2: called my mom. I was crying.
Speaker 3: I called my mom and yeah, I just want to
Speaker 3: check something because I had this incredibly powerful experience. It
Speaker 3: was like an epiphany for me, and I just want
Speaker 3: to double check and make sure that it actually happened
Speaker 3: and that I wasn't making it up. And she went, oh, yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: And I go, did you ever think about telling me that?
Speaker 1: She was like, oh, yeah, you know that?
Speaker 3: And yeah, Auntie, sure she took you. And I go, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's right, Yeah, that's right, I thought. She goes, yes,
Speaker 3: says no, that happened.
Speaker 2: Do you know this story about chaplain And Michael Okay
Speaker 2: and Michael Caine told me this story, which is what
Speaker 2: they were both from the area the Elephant and Castle
Speaker 2: in London, like a very poor slum area in London,
Speaker 2: and in the nineteen late nineteen sixties or seventies they
Speaker 2: were knocking down it must have been of the seventies, actually,
Speaker 2: they were knocking down the Elephant and Castle the area
Speaker 2: in London.
Speaker 1: It was called that because it was it was in
Speaker 1: the Middle Ages.
Speaker 2: It was called lane Font de Castille, but the Londoners
Speaker 2: couldn't pronounce that's an elephant castle.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's hilarious.
Speaker 1: And it was a children. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So they were knocking down this area and Michael, who
Speaker 2: grew up there, was walking around it, and you know,
Speaker 2: he thought, I'll go and see it before they knock
Speaker 2: it down. So very early in the morning when Sunday's
Speaker 2: walking around the elephant castle, it's all kind of deserted
Speaker 2: and stuff. And he comes around the corner and fucking
Speaker 2: Charlie Chaplin is there, old man. And he said, mister Chaplin,
Speaker 2: what are you doing here? I can't do Charlie, Charlie chatlerman.
Speaker 2: But and then you came up. But he said, well,
Speaker 2: I thought i'd come around to look at the old
Speaker 2: neighborhood before they knocked it down. And the two of them,
Speaker 2: there's something wonderful about that two huge, huge god and
Speaker 2: from obviously very different eras.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but still but then walking around together sharing a
Speaker 3: childhood sounds really fascinating.
Speaker 2: They both of these people, And this is kind of
Speaker 2: where I want to lead you a little bit is
Speaker 2: that both of these people.
Speaker 1: For me, I never met Chaplin.
Speaker 2: I presume you didn't either, But I've met and spent
Speaker 2: time with Michael Kaine, who is a fucking diamond of
Speaker 2: a human being.
Speaker 1: He's just amazing.
Speaker 2: And what's great about is that he's one of the
Speaker 2: few people I've met that retains the mistake. I know
Speaker 2: how films are made, I've made them, You've made him
Speaker 2: moving on him, I know how the sausage is made,
Speaker 2: but he keeps the glamour. I wondered for you, is
Speaker 2: there still an area of this business because you've I mean,
Speaker 2: you've really proved yourself in this game. Is there still
Speaker 2: any kind of like, you know, the feeling you used
Speaker 2: to get when you you would see the star's handprints.
Speaker 2: That used to I used to kind of get that,
Speaker 2: and I don't anymore. I'm like, yeah, it's the guy
Speaker 2: Pin's end in concrete.
Speaker 1: Dan't Mater. You hear stories about people. Is there anyone
Speaker 1: who still does it?
Speaker 3: For you? Did I get starstruck or that I'm just.
Speaker 1: Any starstruck or just retains the mistake?
Speaker 2: Who kind of still has the glamour on either personally
Speaker 2: or or But I'm thinking more.
Speaker 1: Personally, like interacting with people. No.
Speaker 3: No, it's funny though, isn't that. No, I have yet
Speaker 3: to see the glamour of this business. I too, totally
Speaker 3: worshiped it from an outsider's perspective. I used to go
Speaker 3: to Men's Chinese when I had a particularly intense audition
Speaker 3: before I would go, and I would stand in Jimmy
Speaker 3: Stewart's shoe prints at Man's Chinese and just, you know,
Speaker 3: look up at this guy says, show me the magic.
Speaker 3: To show me the magic. Yeah, because he was my
Speaker 3: favorite of the speaking actors. Yeah, this is so called
Speaker 3: talking if that little Cato never. But I have yet
Speaker 3: to see glamour. I mean, one moment I think was
Speaker 3: fairly ground glamorous in early screenings of Miscongeniality Too. I
Speaker 3: went to with AlSi I should say. We went to
Speaker 3: a theater way out in like Glendale or something. I
Speaker 3: can't quite remember right now, but anyway, we went up
Speaker 3: to where the projectors were right because that's where Sandy was.
Speaker 3: And there was Sandra Bullock in the middle of the
Speaker 3: room on her phone looking amazing. I'm like a star,
Speaker 3: waiting for the lights to go down so she could
Speaker 3: join the audience, and I think that was the one
Speaker 3: moment where I was like, that's actually pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny that I it does go away.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's just a lot of desperate people trying
Speaker 1: to work. I just went you know, what did it
Speaker 1: to me was late night.
Speaker 2: Oh, because every night you met everybody, giant star comes in. No,
Speaker 2: every night, but a lot of times giant stars come in.
Speaker 2: Giant stars come in, Giant stars come in, and the
Speaker 2: douche to manche ratio is the same as anywhere else
Speaker 2: in the world.
Speaker 3: World.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like, oh yeah, some guys douches, some
Speaker 2: guys manes and that's just the way it is.
Speaker 1: But there are people, for me Stell who kind of
Speaker 1: transcend it a little bit.
Speaker 2: Okay, who's that Well, Robin Williams did that for me
Speaker 2: a little bit. Even although we be came friendly, there
Speaker 2: was still like there's it seemed to me he had
Speaker 2: a magic. Maybe it's genius. Maybe that's what it is.
Speaker 2: It's not really about glamour and show business, but it's about.
Speaker 3: The next level of real talent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or when you see somebody doing a thing like
Speaker 2: every now and again, I would see that I could
Speaker 2: even do I could do and I'm not saying I
Speaker 2: could even do it with you, but I can.
Speaker 3: Do it with you.
Speaker 2: Like there were times when I would like when I
Speaker 2: was watching BoJack, when you turned up in BoJack as
Speaker 2: the agent's assistant, I was like, Oh, that's fucking gorgeous.
Speaker 1: And it was great. It was good.
Speaker 2: I mean that show for me, I'm such a fan
Speaker 2: of that show, really great. It's a very dark, strange ride.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't think there's been a darker comedy.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, who was it you were working with
Speaker 1: on that.
Speaker 3: Bob the creator of the show, and I did a
Speaker 3: show together called Save Me Right that was a total
Speaker 3: piece of shit okay, And he knew it at the time,
Speaker 3: and I knew it at the time, but he couldn't
Speaker 3: say anything. But I just talked about it all the time.
Speaker 1: So he appreciated that, yeah, and couldn't wait to get.
Speaker 3: You into it when he had his own shoe. Then
Speaker 3: he brought me in and he was like, your candor
Speaker 3: was so like refreshing that there was somebody who knew
Speaker 3: that they were on a piece of ship while they
Speaker 3: were in it.
Speaker 2: And it was one of those shows BoJack. I thought
Speaker 2: that you lived in terror of your name turning up
Speaker 2: in it?
Speaker 3: Has he skewered everybody?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mine dead? Oh really yeah. I was watching
Speaker 1: it one day.
Speaker 2: I was like, I think it's like it's deep into
Speaker 2: the season with BoJack's way of face, and the.
Speaker 1: Reporters are looking for BoJack.
Speaker 3: Huh.
Speaker 1: And they go to an AA meeting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they say have you seen any celebrities and
Speaker 2: a meet and soyes, I thought, Craig.
Speaker 1: And then the reports that trying to be swanked by
Speaker 1: association are you? And I was like, that was good.
Speaker 1: That was good.
Speaker 3: Yeah for a boat, especially since you're not anonymous. You're recovering,
Speaker 3: and you're pretty clear about it about it.
Speaker 2: But the AA thing is anonymous. I don't, I can't,
Speaker 2: and you wouldn't of course.
Speaker 3: But what I mean is that that he picked the
Speaker 3: one like he was in recovery. He was up.
Speaker 2: Then there was a there was a whole bunch of
Speaker 2: people left on as well. He just ran a less
Speaker 2: than a fucking dishbag. Fucking celebrities that have gotten sober,
Speaker 2: me included, and and I kind of loved it. But
Speaker 2: as as a skewing, it wasn't bad, and it was
Speaker 2: it wasn't a skewing at all. Okay, I think if
Speaker 2: you're an actor, the way you were an actor, which
Speaker 2: I admire greatly, is that I don't see you being
Speaker 2: you everywhere.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think of me anywhere. I hope not.
Speaker 3: I'm really trying to be somebody else every time. I
Speaker 3: work really hard at that, in breaking up my own
Speaker 3: rhythms and tried to pick up the rhythm of the
Speaker 3: with the writing. I really work hard on that. I mean,
Speaker 3: that's why, I mean some people don't even know I'm
Speaker 3: in Napoleon Dynamite because yeah.
Speaker 1: God, have you still those pants?
Speaker 3: Everybody else? My one regret in show business is that
Speaker 3: I there the greatest.
Speaker 1: I picked them out of a lineup.
Speaker 3: Jerushe, who was also the co writer but was the
Speaker 3: wife of Jared the director, was also the costume director. Right,
Speaker 3: that's a small She showed me three different pairs of
Speaker 3: pants and I was like, they are amazing.
Speaker 2: So, but is that a thing that you do when
Speaker 2: it comes to like publicity because you're you're happy you
Speaker 2: said here and this is you.
Speaker 1: I know you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen you do a ton of
Speaker 2: like you did my talk show.
Speaker 1: See I you do a ton of them. Do you
Speaker 1: do it purpose?
Speaker 3: Are you not so into I mean, it's strange to
Speaker 3: say this as an actor, but I'm not so into
Speaker 3: talking about myself. I'd not rather talk about a specific project.
Speaker 3: And if I do that, then Twitter has kind of
Speaker 3: changed this, Like I feel like I you're quite present
Speaker 3: on that. Also, it is a side of me. It's
Speaker 3: it's the funnier side, the kind of goofy your side.
Speaker 3: But sometimes I open up about the things that I'm
Speaker 3: actually feeling. But most of the time I try to
Speaker 3: be light in airy. I try to be a positive force, right,
Speaker 3: and in Twitter that's particularly difficult because it's a it's
Speaker 3: a dark place.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: It is a dark place. It used to be. It
Speaker 1: is funny.
Speaker 2: I was talking to Josh Robert Thompson recently about who's
Speaker 2: the guy who did the robot and the old late
Speaker 2: night shows fucking genius, Yeah, and he was we were
Speaker 2: talking about how early on Twitter was was kind of great.
Speaker 2: It was fun, it was great light and it went
Speaker 2: very dark and I think probably it was the politics
Speaker 2: of twenty sixteen and that kind of Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think I think appreciated that a little bit. But
Speaker 3: I think as you were alluding to earlier. It's it's
Speaker 3: the ratio, and you know, you get a lot of
Speaker 3: responses from being negative, and so people tend to be
Speaker 3: more negative. I think, just to get the attention. They
Speaker 3: equate negative attention and positive attentions.
Speaker 2: Being the same way. Yeah, I don't do that, No, No,
Speaker 2: it's so strong. Negative attention is deeply stressed.
Speaker 3: Well, because we're performers, right, so there's a part of
Speaker 3: us that wants the audience to lat We want that love, right.
Speaker 2: That's also that if they don't like you and you're
Speaker 2: out of business exactly.
Speaker 3: And it's also like if we were to stand on
Speaker 3: sedge and people were to literally boo and we got
Speaker 3: the same feeling out of that, that would be.
Speaker 4: Strength, that would be that would be thank you so much,
Speaker 4: Oh bless you all for coming him thrive Gabbages.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Obviously this is if it was a visual medium, I
Speaker 2: would have thrown a cabbage.
Speaker 1: Garbages.
Speaker 3: Of course.
Speaker 1: What about directing?
Speaker 3: Oh, sometimes I think about it, but other times I'm
Speaker 3: just so satisfied with.
Speaker 1: What I do. I think I'd like you to think
Speaker 1: about it more than really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you have a very good personality for it,
Speaker 2: I mean even talking about it. Like, first of all,
Speaker 2: you're positive, and you also you see things and you
Speaker 2: do things like text analysis, which a lot of fucking
Speaker 2: directors could do well doing that. But I think also
Speaker 2: you have this thing. I'm going to do a massive
Speaker 2: name drop right now. Fantastic.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: So I was directing this movie, yeah, and I did
Speaker 2: a very bad job on it. But I was talking
Speaker 2: to Warren Beatty before I At lunch we wore in
Speaker 2: Beata boom, yeah, yeah, there it goes. And at lunch
Speaker 2: we wore in Beatty because somebody had set us up
Speaker 2: at lunch so he could help me because I was
Speaker 2: in the movie and I was directing the movie, and
Speaker 2: so he was.
Speaker 1: I said, I need to talk to guys supposed to
Speaker 1: be astonishingly bright. He's amazing and clever.
Speaker 2: Man, that's what it's on every waitress that serves fucking ridiculous.
Speaker 1: It's like it's it's just crazy. I don't think he
Speaker 1: even knows he's doing it.
Speaker 2: Is like, you know, you look fabulous, that this is
Speaker 2: the greatest omelet I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: I was like, I forgot but shame unbelievable. I like,
Speaker 1: I don't even know, I don't even know. I don't
Speaker 1: think he is hitting on these people. I think he's
Speaker 1: just so.
Speaker 2: Kind of just as charmingly anyway, whatever it is. But
Speaker 2: he he was talking about directing. The number one thing
Speaker 2: he said, don't try and impress anyone. The less you say,
Speaker 2: the more they're going to be impressed, he said, because
Speaker 2: they turn everybody turns up when the movie set, and
Speaker 2: they've all got a call sheet. And on that call
Speaker 2: sheet is written bold type right at the top director
Speaker 2: and then your name, So they're already impressed. All that's
Speaker 2: going to happen is you're going to disappoint like ah,
Speaker 2: And I think that you. I wouldn't have said this
Speaker 2: about you when we were doing the Drew Carries.
Speaker 3: I was out of control.
Speaker 1: You weren't out control. You were younger, yeah, and and
Speaker 1: you were a nice guy.
Speaker 2: And I don't I I will, you know, I don't
Speaker 2: want to hold with any idea that there's anything wrong.
Speaker 1: It was none wrong with yeah.
Speaker 2: But you clearly are a human being who's made a transit,
Speaker 2: who grew up. And I think that you have stories
Speaker 2: to tell. And even when you when you told the
Speaker 2: story of you as a little kid in Paris. That's
Speaker 2: fain better visual. We think about it. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I will all right.
Speaker 2: Well, so when you're making your movie, I would like
Speaker 2: to be angry Parishian these kidd move.
Speaker 1: I think it would be fine. I think I could
Speaker 1: do it. I could throw a mustache. It depends. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So but just acting then you don't you don't see
Speaker 2: it as a well, that's the wrong thing.
Speaker 3: I don't mean just acting you Oh, I know what
Speaker 3: you're saying, right, Yeah, No, I mean I find my
Speaker 3: job very complex and it never gets easy in a
Speaker 3: way where I kind of stop thinking about it. I
Speaker 3: find every day interesting. And you know, I'm on this
Speaker 3: new show called Lucky hank And with Bubble Kirk and
Speaker 3: an incredible cast. Right, and we did one episode, episode five,
Speaker 3: where we were all together. It's a bottle episode. For
Speaker 3: those people that aren't in show business, it's basically when
Speaker 3: the show the studio tells you that we have no
Speaker 3: more money, and so they do an episode where everybody's
Speaker 3: caught together. Right, episodes, snowed in episode or something. You'll
Speaker 3: see it on TV shows all the time. In show business,
Speaker 3: they are called bottle episodes. That's just the short thing.
Speaker 3: So the writers of Lucky. Hank were exceptionally good. Had
Speaker 3: all of these characters out in the show in the
Speaker 3: first four episodes, and they were kind of like just
Speaker 3: a lot of strings, and you didn't know if Hank
Speaker 3: was the thing that pulled it together or why they
Speaker 3: were necessarily connected. And in this one episode they just
Speaker 3: pulled the string and they realized is that it's been
Speaker 3: there the entire time, and it pulls everyone together with them.
Speaker 3: And there's a scene where it's twelve pages at a
Speaker 3: table and it's a long time, very long time.
Speaker 1: It's like twenty five minutes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so we're just sitting there talking and it
Speaker 3: reinvigorated my sense of my profession and the beauty of
Speaker 3: it in one day. It was so beautiful to see
Speaker 3: all these actors interact and create something new every single take,
Speaker 3: to push each other but also push the reality of
Speaker 3: what we're making it deeper and deeper every take. And
Speaker 3: one of the things that drives me completely bonkers about
Speaker 3: those that don't take our mutual profession seriously is when
Speaker 3: they're off camera and they stop acting, it drives me
Speaker 3: completely bonkers, like I would prefer you not to be
Speaker 3: there and I can act to tape, And I have
Speaker 3: asked for this before because actors will just like, you know,
Speaker 3: they're just going that long or whatever.
Speaker 2: The camera's on someone, cameras on the other actor.
Speaker 3: They're sitting off camera, and four looks basically so that
Speaker 3: your look looks like but they're they're not acting, and
Speaker 3: they barely know their lines or they don't know their
Speaker 3: lines and they're just reading it. It's so distracting. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that I would prefer to have a piece of tape
Speaker 3: and I have the script supervisor read, and I will
Speaker 3: look at something that it's like, you're the best actor ever.
Speaker 3: I will make you look good an honest god, but
Speaker 3: don't be here right now because you're not.
Speaker 1: Doing it right.
Speaker 3: And this ensemble with Bob as the lead, every single
Speaker 3: take was great, even when it was coverage of like,
Speaker 3: you know, just one person had two cameras on them
Speaker 3: and it was their close up and there are ten
Speaker 3: actors in the scene. Everybody acted their heart out.
Speaker 1: Bob was crying off camera. Yeah, that's that's just a waste.
Speaker 3: Of He had already done his close up, but somehow
Speaker 3: he tapped into something and he just kept going it,
Speaker 3: just kept tapping into it right and it was he
Speaker 3: was just one hundred percent there and everyone was right there.
Speaker 3: It felt magical.
Speaker 1: But that's part of the attraction.
Speaker 2: Like at the very beginning for a lot of people,
Speaker 2: I think is the collegiate band Brothers Fields right of
Speaker 2: what it's like to be in an ensemble cast. That's
Speaker 2: exactly right. When you and I were talking going back
Speaker 2: to those early days of the Drew Carey Show, that
Speaker 2: second season, third fourth season run about that period, maybe
Speaker 2: the episode twenty five to episode of one hundred, there
Speaker 2: was a time when I think we were in that space.
Speaker 3: I completely agree with it, and that I think we
Speaker 3: lost it probably about mid fifth season and then and
Speaker 3: then we were just doing a job. But for those
Speaker 3: it's like the rock and roll movies when they, you know,
Speaker 3: the band gets together and then they have their peak
Speaker 3: hits and they're really great, and then they just keep playing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they keep.
Speaker 3: Playing, and then they're playing in the then the inevitable happens. Yeah,
Speaker 3: the drum is always kind of but when it's good,
Speaker 3: it's really beautiful. You're like, oh, this is rock and roll.
Speaker 3: This is really good. If one person is off, the
Speaker 3: band is off, right, But when they're all together, it
Speaker 3: all clicks.
Speaker 1: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's beautiful. And I think that that's kind of odd.
Speaker 2: Even as a viewer when you watch shows, you can
Speaker 2: see like there are shows that just come out of
Speaker 2: the gate and they're amazing, and then you know, season ten,
Speaker 2: they're like, you know, really when they introduced was it
Speaker 2: the sentence dead the dog with sunglasses on theboard, like, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: But I think that there is a kind of lie.
Speaker 1: Carrie Fisher used to say this.
Speaker 2: I think it was a brilliant thing to say, amongst
Speaker 2: many brilliant things that she was wonderful.
Speaker 1: Did you know her?
Speaker 3: I knew a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was very much for me. When the Late
Speaker 2: Night Show started. I had just written a book and
Speaker 2: she read it and.
Speaker 3: She American on purpose. No before that.
Speaker 2: It was a novel I wrote called Between the Bridge
Speaker 2: and the River and it was a kind of magical
Speaker 2: realist thing and I was like, it's never going to
Speaker 2: make any money or anything like that, but I really
Speaker 2: wanted to write it. Yeah, coo, And she read it
Speaker 2: and she was very positive about it and really kind
Speaker 2: of introduced me in a way to Hollywood that hadn't
Speaker 2: been before. She was just amazingly supportive. Wow, she did
Speaker 2: that for tons of people. That's so cool. Like she
Speaker 2: had this kind of like artists colony at her house
Speaker 2: and you would go up and you'd meet like I
Speaker 2: met the weirdest people. I'm like a Courtney Love up
Speaker 2: there and all you med like not the courney Love.
Speaker 2: But she has a little weird I think I would
Speaker 2: say that she was here, but I don't think that's
Speaker 2: a big surprise. But I just met a lot of
Speaker 2: a wild array of different people and lovely. But she
Speaker 2: said when I put on that metal bikini when I
Speaker 2: was twenty four, I didn't realize I was making a
Speaker 2: pact with the universe to look like that for the
Speaker 2: rest of my life.
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I you know, it was like it's a moment
Speaker 1: in time. Why can't you let it be that? You know?
Speaker 2: And I think that with a sitcom when it all
Speaker 2: comes together, or a movie that all comes together, that
Speaker 2: that's why you know, when people talk about a I
Speaker 2: am like, it doesn't frighten me because you know, because
Speaker 2: it's still got there's too much A for the eye tomorrow,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm fucking mean.
Speaker 1: It's like why is it? You know, like Papa's been
Speaker 1: around a very long time. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2: That you know this is going to be funny because
Speaker 2: the robot says it's funny.
Speaker 1: Good fucking luck. Robot.
Speaker 3: Whitney Balier says, the jazz is the sound of surprise,
Speaker 3: and that's fucking great. I would say the comedy.
Speaker 2: Is that, and Robin Williams used to say that good
Speaker 2: comedy was jazz.
Speaker 1: No, there we go, Phil, You're a joy.
Speaker 2: It is beautiful to talk to you, man, more power
Speaker 2: to I'm really looking forward to seeing Lucky Hank.
Speaker 1: Thanks you well done.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: The bar paper for Poper