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Speaker 1: Check me out at the annual Black Effect Podcast Festival,

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Speaker 1: happening Saturday, April twenty seven in Atlanta. Live podcasts are

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Speaker 1: Black Tech, Green Money, and also some of the best

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Speaker 1: podcasts in the game, like Deeply Well with Debbie Brown

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Speaker 1: and Carefully Reckless. Atlanta is one of my favorite cities

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Speaker 1: in the world. I've lived there for two years actually,

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Speaker 1: and my worldview seeing a successful in every industry and

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Speaker 1: not having any limits on our potential largely was shaved

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Speaker 1: by Atlanta. So to be there with you doing this

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Speaker 1: podcast talking about how we build or leverage technology to

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Speaker 1: bill wealth. Come on, man, doesn't get better. I want

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Speaker 1: Effect dot comback Slash Podcast Festival.

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Speaker 2: And when I have these conversations with my with my

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Speaker 2: white counterparts about AI, they're like, oh, man, it's gonna

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Speaker 2: change the world. We're gonna be doing all these crazy

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Speaker 2: cool things.

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Speaker 3: Hey.

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Speaker 2: You know, sometimes I talk to my friends in the

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Speaker 2: group chat, They're like, man, the devil is busy with

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Speaker 2: that AI, right, Like, you know, you get different impressions about.

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Speaker 1: I'm Will Lucas and this is black Tech Green Money.

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Speaker 1: Andrew McCaskill is a communications executive with twenty years of

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Speaker 1: experience delivering award winning communications and be our campaigns at

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Speaker 1: Fortune five hundred companies and highly successful technology startups.

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Speaker 2: He was SVP of Global.

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Speaker 1: Communications and Multicultural Marketing at Nielsen, head of D and

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Speaker 1: I Global Sales and Marketing at Facebook.

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Speaker 3: Is an investor and advisor at.

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Speaker 1: Culture Genesis and its career expert in Global communications at LinkedIn.

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Speaker 2: He's also pr Week's Top forty under forty.

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Speaker 1: Not everyone who listens to this podcast is going to

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Speaker 1: start a company, many, if not most, will be career

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Speaker 1: professionals in climb the ladder regardless. You want to make

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Speaker 1: sure you build wealth. And it's often said, however, that

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Speaker 1: you can't build wealth by selling your time. I asked

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Speaker 1: Andrew to speak on that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I think it's so important because you're right,

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Speaker 2: everybody's not going to be an entrepreneur. Many of us

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Speaker 2: are points, have most of our working lives and some

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Speaker 2: version of a nine to five. And I think that

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Speaker 2: the biggest thing that I feel like that people can

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Speaker 2: do to build wealth is to start having wealth conversations, right,

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Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is, you know, I

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Speaker 2: grew up middle upper middle class, right, and my parents

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Speaker 2: did not talk to me a lot about money. Money

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Speaker 2: in my household was grown folks business, and you know,

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Speaker 2: they basically gave me a couple of things is save

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Speaker 2: some money and don't spend more than you make, right,

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Speaker 2: good luck, and you know, call us if you need us.

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Speaker 2: And what I think that that sometimes we do with

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Speaker 2: that is that we don't information share enough. And so

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Speaker 2: I feel like that one of the things that is

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Speaker 2: the beginning of financial mobility, financial mobility starts with financial stability.

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Speaker 2: And I think that amongst amongst particularly younger black folks,

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Speaker 2: younger black professionals, we have to collaborate and not compete.

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Speaker 2: And that means that many of us are not gonna

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Speaker 2: get somebody from some ivory tower to come down and

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Speaker 2: tell us all these things about money. So we have

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Speaker 2: to peer to peer mentor each other in a lot

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Speaker 2: of ways. Right, My group chat has saved me so

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Speaker 2: many times from making mistakes about money at work. And

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Speaker 2: so the first time I had a job in tech

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Speaker 2: where I had to actually negotiate for equity, I had

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Speaker 2: to go and look up on the internet what restricted

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Speaker 2: stock units were. I had no idea what I was

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Speaker 2: potentially leaving on the table because I didn't have that information.

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Speaker 2: Luckily for me, I had not even necessarily a mentor,

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Speaker 2: but a dude that I knew in tech that I

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Speaker 2: had met at a conference, and I was like, yo,

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Speaker 2: I noticed, dude is senior. I still have this number.

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Speaker 2: I'm just gonna roll the dice and call him, and

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Speaker 2: he broke it down for me in a way that man,

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Speaker 2: I could have left so much money on the table

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Speaker 2: as a nine to five or if I hadn't really

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Speaker 2: thought about it in the right way. So the number

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Speaker 2: one to get from that mobility stability is having the

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Speaker 2: most information, and sometimes that information is gonna come from

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Speaker 2: people who look like us. Right. The other thing I

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Speaker 2: think is is really just the behavioral shift and a

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Speaker 2: mindset shift that you know, I think that we all

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Speaker 2: have to have around that is that many of us

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Speaker 2: who are in that nine to five world, a lot

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Speaker 2: of us are grappling with something that our non Hispanic

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Speaker 2: white counterparts don't have to grapple with. And that's the

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Speaker 2: untold story is the fragility of the black middle class.

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Speaker 2: Middle class status is very fragile for us in our

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Speaker 2: communities because oftentimes, Man, you know, you might be the

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Speaker 2: one in the family that's got that good job, but

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Speaker 2: when big Mama's water heater breaks down, you getting that call, right.

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Speaker 2: And so I feel like that one of those things

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Speaker 2: that we have to do is that we're constantly sort

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Speaker 2: of accounting for that. So if it comes down to

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Speaker 2: Gucci versus Grandma, I'm gonna save that money for Grandma

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Speaker 2: every time, right because I want to, Because I think

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Speaker 2: that that's the call that many of us are gonna get.

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Speaker 2: So I think that that mobility of getting to wealth

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Speaker 2: starts with like reimagining how we think about that money

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Speaker 2: in the beginning. That one we get more money when

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Speaker 2: we talk about money and have money conversations with people

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Speaker 2: that we trust that we can you know, we sort

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Speaker 2: of grow together. You need to grow with your peer group.

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Speaker 2: And so when you're sharing that information, like one thing

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Speaker 2: about me, I'll send you my old offer letter from

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Speaker 2: from Facebook, I'll send you my old offer letter from

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Speaker 2: you know, previous companies that I had. So at least

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Speaker 2: you should know that this is where you should level set. Right.

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Speaker 2: The other thing is like, we know that we're gonna

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Speaker 2: get hit in different ways, so we have to think

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Speaker 2: about money and stability just totally different. And here's the

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Speaker 2: thing that I think is more in line with what

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Speaker 2: I think everybody really wants the answer to be from

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Speaker 2: this question is like, can you build wealth while working

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Speaker 2: for other people? Absolutely? You can. It happens every single dissa, Right.

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Speaker 2: You have to just really plan for and account for

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Speaker 2: your career in certain ways. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So you got a couple of questions there that

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Speaker 1: you speak my interest on. And so I've read some

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Speaker 1: of your posts and you had talked about how the

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Speaker 1: job market has tightened and there's one job for every

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Speaker 1: two applicants, right, and how can black people, black professionals

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Speaker 1: negotiate effectively to secure competitive conversation, not just accept what

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Speaker 1: they give you, but to negotiate that compensation and ensure

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Speaker 1: that you know financial reward is there in the market

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Speaker 1: where employers have a whole bunch of options for who

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Speaker 1: wants this job.

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Speaker 2: Here's the things I think that you can't is that

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Speaker 2: you can't go into it without the confidence that, hey,

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Speaker 2: I know, I know what my skills are and I

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Speaker 2: know that I can do in this role. And so

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Speaker 2: I do think that part of it is being really

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Speaker 2: confident about what you bring to the table and being

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Speaker 2: able to articulate that really well. And that's not just

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Speaker 2: about spitting workplace game, right. I think that that confidence

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Speaker 2: really comes from, you know, being really secure about how

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Speaker 2: you tell your story. And that is how you tell

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Speaker 2: your professional story, how you talk about your superpowers, what

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Speaker 2: you bring to the table, how you talk about your skills,

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Speaker 2: how you match up the skills that you that you

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Speaker 2: have with what the company is actually asking for and desiring.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of that comes from really being able

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Speaker 2: to practice and rehearse that. That's just table stakes practicing

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Speaker 2: and rehearsing how you tell your story and how you

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Speaker 2: talk about it. But the information piece of it. If

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Speaker 2: you're really trying to negotiate for a great for better

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Speaker 2: compensation at a job that you already really want, I

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Speaker 2: think there are a couple of things that you have

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Speaker 2: to do. One is make sure that you understand sort

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Speaker 2: of the value in the marketplace in terms of most

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Speaker 2: of the companies now will give you a somewhat of

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Speaker 2: a range. We all want the top of that brain

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Speaker 2: right when we see it. I think that what you

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Speaker 2: have to then do is negotiate for why you want

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Speaker 2: that at the at the top of the range. Also,

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Speaker 2: there's gonna be it's really competitive, and I think that

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Speaker 2: you know, yeah, we all want to get that next job.

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Speaker 2: But the worst thing that you can one of the

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Speaker 2: worst things that you can do, unless you just desperately

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Speaker 2: need a job. If you desperately need a job, do

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Speaker 2: what you got to do in I respect, right, But

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Speaker 2: if you're in a position where you actually have some choice,

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Speaker 2: and we have a lot more choice than we truly

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Speaker 2: have been, you know, sort of conditioned to believe. If

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Speaker 2: you've got the choice, I think you do have to

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Speaker 2: go in and sort of negotiate for what you want.

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Speaker 2: That negotiation begins with how much information do you have

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Speaker 2: about the role? How much information do you have about

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Speaker 2: the company. You're eight times more likely to get a

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Speaker 2: job at a company if you know somebody who's at

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Speaker 2: that company, and that doesn't have to be your work

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Speaker 2: best friend. That could be somebody that you worked with

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Speaker 2: ten years ago. That could be so that goes to

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Speaker 2: your church, but you you don't really know them, but

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Speaker 2: you know of them, right, because that just even that

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Speaker 2: conversation gives you a better idea of what the culture

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Speaker 2: is and how much and how much you can think

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Speaker 2: about it. They don't have to tell you how much

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Speaker 2: money they make or any of that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: But the little clues that they can give you, or

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Speaker 2: even just then mentioning your name, puts you in a

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Speaker 2: better position. Your network really really matters. And I think

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Speaker 2: that we have been sort of conditioned not to think

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Speaker 2: of our network as the way I feel like our

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Speaker 2: non Hispanic white counterparts think about it, right, is that

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Speaker 2: we oftentimes get caught up in thinking that if I'm

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Speaker 2: networking with you, it's got to be like a business

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Speaker 2: cards exchange or at a party or something like that,

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Speaker 2: or a cocktail hour or that, like it's got to

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Speaker 2: be some kind of quid pro quo or I'm asking

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Speaker 2: you for a favor or something like that. Our white

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Speaker 2: counterparts don't even think about networking in that way. They

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Speaker 2: don't think about, Okay, well, look, will gave me your number.

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Speaker 2: So anything you anything you say to me is a

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Speaker 2: reflection on will. That's just not how That's not how

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Speaker 2: anybody else thinks about it, right, It really is will

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Speaker 2: gave me this person's number. Maybe something comes from it,

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Speaker 2: maybe something doesn't. My connection, my connections that I sort

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Speaker 2: of share that network sharing man, your network is so powerful.

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Speaker 2: So I think using your network to get a better

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Speaker 2: idea of like what your opportunity is. But don't just

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Speaker 2: take the first offer. I always say that you have

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Speaker 2: to negotiate. Even for that recruiter to really or that

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Speaker 2: hiring manager to truly respect you, you need to and

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Speaker 2: at least negotiate something. And you negotiate like that.

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Speaker 3: I like that.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of people with jobs, careers, I

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Speaker 1: should say, who are concerned about how AI is about

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Speaker 1: to impact their roles. Like, you know, I think about

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Speaker 1: like if if I can marry grammarly and chat GPT,

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Speaker 1: I never have to hire a copywriter again. Like, so

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Speaker 1: there's there are certain roles that are definitely under the gun,

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Speaker 1: you know, to use that phrase. So how are you

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Speaker 1: advising professionals to acquire in demand skills so that they

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Speaker 1: can be you know, still marketable in the years to

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Speaker 1: come in the professional workplace?

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Speaker 2: Oh man, I love this question because let's even even

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Speaker 2: if you take AI out of the game, that our

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Speaker 2: research shows that even if you're not changing jobs, your

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Speaker 2: job is changing on you. Most people's jobs change about

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Speaker 2: fifteen to twenty percent every two years. Right, so you

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Speaker 2: could be in the job that you've been in that

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Speaker 2: job five years. Your job is so different from the

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Speaker 2: day you started to today. And you know, when I

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Speaker 2: have these conversations with my uh with my white counterparts

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Speaker 2: about AI, they're like, oh, man, it's gonna change the world.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna be doing all these crazy cool things. And

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Speaker 2: you know, sometimes I talk to my friends in the

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Speaker 2: group chat and they're like, man, the devil is busy

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Speaker 2: with that AI, right, Like, you know, you're getting different

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Speaker 2: impressions about it, right. But we actually, we actually talked

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Speaker 2: to a large number of black professionals about how they

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Speaker 2: were feeling about AI and sort of what's happening. And

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Speaker 2: what we found, man, was that actually most black professionals

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Speaker 2: were actually were actually really intrigued and excited about AI.

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Speaker 2: But what they also said was that about forty seven

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Speaker 2: percent said that they didn't know where to start getting

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Speaker 2: AI skills and getting up to speed. And so's the

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Speaker 2: that's the hook right there. What we did at LinkedIn

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Speaker 2: when we saw that was we said, okay, well we're

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Speaker 2: gonna make our top ten AI courses free for everybody.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to have LinkedIn premium or anything like that.

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Speaker 2: So we've made our top ten AI courses for free,

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Speaker 2: and that's everything from understanding you know prompt engineering to

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Speaker 2: understanding you know AI one on one. We've even got

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Speaker 2: some more advanced courses. And if you if you follow

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Speaker 2: my newsletter The Black Guy in Marketing on linked and

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Speaker 2: then I've got all of the courses listed there, you

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Speaker 2: can literally click on the courses and take the courses. Right.

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Speaker 2: It's like tons of free courses. But I think that

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Speaker 2: that's the key to it is that for black professionals

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Speaker 2: in particular, I think that if you don't know what

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Speaker 2: a large language model is, and you're listening to this

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Speaker 2: conversation right now, I know there are a lot of

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Speaker 2: tech people who probably do know exactly what that is.

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Speaker 2: But if you don't, now is the time for you

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Speaker 2: to start at least get the language and the lexicon

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Speaker 2: of AI down because we need more black people using

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Speaker 2: the tool. We need more black people getting the skills

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Speaker 2: and getting the certifications because major revolutions in work have

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Speaker 2: not always been kind to us. But now we're in

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Speaker 2: a space where the information is literally at our fingertips.

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Speaker 2: If you've got a computer, you've got a smartphone, you

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Speaker 2: can get access to starting to learn how to use

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Speaker 2: these tools and play with these tools. And I think

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Speaker 2: that that's the key to it is to get in

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Speaker 2: there and start playing with it now because AI is

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Speaker 2: coming to work. It's at work already, and I don't

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Speaker 2: want us to feel like that it's this scary thing

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Speaker 2: because we've been I mean it, all it really is,

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Speaker 2: as you know, is like really well educated guesses to

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Speaker 2: what you to answering questions for what we all need.

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Speaker 2: And if you've used you know, almost any technology tool

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Speaker 2: that in the last you know, five or six years,

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Speaker 2: there's been some bit of it that is making some

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Speaker 2: educated guesses for you. Right then, completely on the Google

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Speaker 2: search bar. Absolutely, I use that example all the time

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Speaker 2: auto completely on Google. Right. But here's the other thing

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Speaker 2: is that I don't want people to have this. I

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Speaker 2: think that people have this fear, Oh AI is going

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Speaker 2: to take my job. That's not what you should be

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Speaker 2: afraid of. AI is not gonna take your job. But

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Speaker 2: someone who understands AI, who has AI skills, may take

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Speaker 2: your job. And so that's where that's that particularly. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: to that particular point you just made.

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Speaker 1: LinkedIn has this Jobs on the Rise twenty twenty four list,

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Speaker 1: which includes industries like AI, sustainability, and et cetera, which

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Speaker 1: are often associated with earning potential, And you talked about

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Speaker 1: these core courses and curriculums that are available. What should

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Speaker 1: we be looking for specifically when we go because it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like you know when they tell you five

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Speaker 1: years ago, ten years ago, and they say you should

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Speaker 1: learn the code, and they said, all right, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go learn the code. Now, there's twenty thirty different languages,

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Speaker 1: these Ruby on rails, there's Python, there's C plus plus,

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Speaker 1: there's all these things. So I'm like, I don't I'm

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Speaker 1: swimming in the sea of options of what to learn,

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Speaker 1: and you don't know everybody's gonna tell you something different.

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Speaker 1: And so when I say, okay, the earning high earning

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Speaker 1: potential is in sectors like AI is sustainability, What should

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Speaker 1: I be going to learn when I go to that

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Speaker 1: list that you talked about what should.

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Speaker 2: I be looking at? I think the first thing you

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Speaker 2: got to do is get the basics. So there's literally

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Speaker 2: AI one O one, like, how to talk about it,

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Speaker 2: what the language is, explaining how AI works so that

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Speaker 2: people can can really get a baseline understanding. Then I

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Speaker 2: would graduate up to prompt engineering because I feel like

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Speaker 2: that once you start to understand how the tools work

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Speaker 2: and you start to build the language and the lexicon

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Speaker 2: to understand it, then the next thing you need to

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Speaker 2: do is learn how to harness the tools right. Because

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Speaker 2: there's a bunch of tools that are to tell it

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Speaker 2: what to do. You got to learn how to tell

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Speaker 2: it what to do right. And that's the biggest part

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Speaker 2: is that because garbage garbage prompts give you sort of

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Speaker 2: once you learn how to right, once you learn how

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Speaker 2: to really harness the technology, there's a lot of fun

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Speaker 2: to be had with it right. And I think that

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Speaker 2: that's the that that's where I think people should start

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Speaker 2: to go and then think about what it is that

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Speaker 2: you do every day or what it is that you

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Speaker 2: eventually want to do. So if you're once you start

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Speaker 2: to understand the technology, then you understand how to actually

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Speaker 2: use it and how to make the technology do what

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Speaker 2: you want to do. Then I think it goes into

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Speaker 2: where then is the technology being applied in your field?

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Speaker 2: And where do you feel like the inking one make

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Speaker 2: your job easier, make you faster, make you smarter, make

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Speaker 2: you be able to you know, maximize your workload. And

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Speaker 2: that's where you start is then take your time and

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Speaker 2: your attention to Okay, what are those tools. The other

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Speaker 2: thing I would say is there's been there's no better

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Speaker 2: time than now than to start talking to other people

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Speaker 2: in whatever your industry or your profession is about how

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Speaker 2: they're using AI. I would say too, for most people,

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Speaker 2: once you get some some basic language around on how

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Speaker 2: to talk about it, I would start talking to people

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Speaker 2: at work like, hey, how are we thinking about using AI?

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Speaker 2: Talk to your manager, how are we thinking about that?

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Speaker 2: There's probably an almost everybody's company right now, there's an

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Speaker 2: AI task force or AI or you know, an AI

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Speaker 2: like working group. Start to figure out, now that you've

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Speaker 2: got some information about it, how do you get on

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Speaker 2: that AI working group? How do you start to have

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Speaker 2: those conversations? And if you're a member of you know,

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Speaker 2: any other groups or professional ORGANI start talking to the

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Speaker 2: people in your profession by yo, what are y'all seeing?

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Speaker 2: So that you can be ahead of it. Information sharing

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Speaker 2: is again one of the major things that I feel

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Speaker 2: like is one of our biggest gaps to career advancement.

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Speaker 2: And now they're tools that can collapse geography. They're tools

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Speaker 2: that can where you can go out and you can say,

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Speaker 2: you know, okay, I'm gonna just jump on LinkedIn and

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Speaker 2: connect with people that I used to work with in

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Speaker 2: my old job or in my industry and say, or

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Speaker 2: join one of the groups on there. If it's an

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Speaker 2: engineering group, lem's join this engineering group. Is if it's

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Speaker 2: PR group, let me join this PR group. You know,

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Speaker 2: if it's nurses or people in the medical field, let

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Speaker 2: me join this and see how are y'all using this right?

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Speaker 2: And I think that that's the way that you figure

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Speaker 2: out what's next, because what's next isn't gonna come to you.

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Speaker 2: You gotta get to what's next, or you got to

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Speaker 2: start to investigate what's next, because by the time it

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Speaker 2: comes back to you, is somebody asking you to do

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Speaker 2: something that you may or may not have the skills

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Speaker 2: to do that.

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Speaker 1: And so I want to talk about resume building and skills.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm number one, So I got to preface

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Speaker 1: it's like I'm a university chair of the board.

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Speaker 2: So I'm chair the board of a university. But I

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Speaker 2: get also.

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Speaker 1: That there's been and a lean towards skills and not

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Speaker 1: necessarily degrees, and we're grappling with that, grappling with that also,

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Speaker 1: and so you admonish people to highlight their skills versus

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Speaker 1: necessarily their resumes their credentials in such a way. And

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Speaker 1: I'm a small business owner also, and I think about

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Speaker 1: my small business like, I can really care less what

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Speaker 1: school you into. I want to know what you can do.

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Speaker 1: And I think most small businesses might think that way

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Speaker 1: because what we need is people who can hit the

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Speaker 1: ground running faster. And your credentials don't necessarily say that

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Speaker 1: you can hit the ground running faster. What you can

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Speaker 1: show me shows me that you can hit the ground

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Speaker 1: running faster. And I think I feel like what that

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Speaker 1: as more small businesses hire more people. Number one, there

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Speaker 1: are more people who are employed by small businesses than

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Speaker 1: anything else in the country. Yeah, so as more of

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Speaker 1: us think that way, then the degree the credentials mean

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Speaker 1: less over time. And so can you talk about help

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Speaker 1: me think about think that through yep.

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Speaker 2: I listen everybody from LinkedIn the world's largest professional network,

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Speaker 2: to the President of the United States and the s

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Speaker 2: in the State of the Union is talking about skills,

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Speaker 2: skills based hiring, and skills first hiring. I think it's

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Speaker 2: the way of the future. I think it is the

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Speaker 2: way I think is a It is a pathway to

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Speaker 2: more and to a more equitable workforce. Having a four

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Speaker 2: year degree requirement actually just puts tons of jobs that

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Speaker 2: don't that should not be out of reach, out of

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Speaker 2: reach for large swaths of people of color in particular.

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Speaker 2: Let's just point blank period. I mean, that's just it

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Speaker 2: is what it is. Yes, our educational attainment is going

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Speaker 2: up every year, particularly by black women, but if we

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Speaker 2: took away the four year degree requirement, it would open

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Speaker 2: the aperture for many, many more people of color to

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Speaker 2: get knowledge, knowledge based you know, air quotes white collar jobs.

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Speaker 2: So I do think that that is where we're where

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Speaker 2: we're going to go. I think that it's going to be.

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Speaker 2: But we're not completely there yet, right like we I

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Speaker 2: just be honest with you, We're not completely there yet.

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Speaker 2: But it is where people are starting to go. Even

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Speaker 2: our company, we've removed four year degree requirements from most

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Speaker 2: of our jobs at LinkedIn, and we're a tech company, right.

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Speaker 2: I will say, the thing that I want people to understand,

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Speaker 2: and even people who are at universities and who are

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Speaker 2: who are getting degrees and getting master's degrees and all

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Speaker 2: those things, is that you still are going to have

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Speaker 2: to talk about your skills. Regardless of how great your

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Speaker 2: grades were, You're going to be able to talk have

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Speaker 2: to talk to recruiters about what you know how to

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Speaker 2: do and where you have done it previously. You've got

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Speaker 2: to have a skills conversation. I want to see your portfolio.

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Speaker 2: I really don't care ABOUTIO, right, And that's that's just

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Speaker 2: what matters like listen. I mean, I love to tell

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Speaker 2: people that I graduated from Morehouse College. I love to

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Speaker 2: tell people that I have a business uh NBA from

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Speaker 2: of course what a school of business at EMMRA University.

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Speaker 2: But ain't nobody asking me? Not usually, you know what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, Nobody's really, ain't nobody asked me yet? Ain't

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Speaker 2: nobody asked me? And here's the deal? Is that? And

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Speaker 2: what what I will say? And here's this goes back

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Speaker 2: to the AI thing to a little bit. Is that

435
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 2: we just released our most in demand skills. These are

436
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 2: the skills that companies are asking for most for all

437
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 2: of the out of all of the job postings on

438
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 2: our entire website, right, and the number one skill across

439
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 2: the board for the second year in a row. Most

440
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 2: in demand is communication and so part of that is

441
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,959
Speaker 2: human skills, people centric skills. The future of work is

442
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 2: going to be human, no matter how pervasive AI becomes.

443
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: You the people skills are really in Those human skills

444
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 2: are really what's most in demand. Yeah, and more technical jobs.

445
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 2: There's gonna be other parts of it, but leadership, management,

446
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 2: team work, analysis, communication, those things really matter. We see

447
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 2: so many recruiters who say to us, we've got people

448
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 2: who are in their early careers, who are graduating from

449
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 2: college and they've got, you know, education, but they can't present,

450
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: or they can't write, or they can't or they can't

451
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 2: make a concise or data based argument. They're arguing with

452
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 2: feelings and what they you know, and what they think

453
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 2: as opposed to facts and data. And they're like, we,

454
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 2: you know, we're trying to grapple with how do we

455
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 2: train them to have these skills for these skills of

456
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 2: analysis and things like that. We talk to recruiters and

457
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 2: over forty eight percent of recruiters say that they are

458
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 2: using skills to source for talent. And we've got to

459
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 2: teach candidates how to now reimagine how they talk about

460
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 2: their skills in job interviews, and employees how to make

461
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 2: sure that they're always upskilling and keeping their skills fresh

462
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 2: and tight, and looking at how they continuously talk about

463
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 2: their skills and action.

464
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: To you, great point, because it brings me to a

465
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: quote that you gave, I think in an article on

466
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: afrotech and so you taught. You said in twenty twenty four,

467
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: we have agency. We want more than just jobs. It's

468
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: a new era where it's not just about stability, it's

469
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 1: about thriving and telling our personal story in a professional world.

470
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: And so with that in one hand, you think about

471
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: at least historically, longevity in the role meant trajectory. It

472
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: meant that you were gonna make more, you were gonna

473
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: get higher.

474
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: Better, prestigious jobs.

475
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: And what you're saying is that we're not just looking

476
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: for you know, jobs for fine ten twenty years like

477
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: our predecessors. Yeah, so then how do you reconcile being

478
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: able to make more and more money when we might

479
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: jump every three ish four ish years.

480
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 2: Or more longer? Right? Listen, I think that there that

481
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: longevity has a place as long as you're being compensated

482
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 2: and appreciated, as long as you are still you're being

483
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 2: whatever you the thing that you get from work that

484
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: you're getting right. I'm very money motivated. So I've made

485
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 2: a lot of my decisions early in my career based

486
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,479
Speaker 2: on how much bang for the buck am I getting,

487
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 2: Like carried to one, what's my carry with one my institute,

488
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 2: what's my check on the person? At fifteen? Now I'm

489
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 2: a little bit older. Now I'm almost fifty, and I

490
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: am thinking about how I spend my time very differently, right,

491
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: And so money is still a great motivating factor in

492
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 2: my career, but I'm also thinking about where do I

493
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: take my skills and my talent? Right, So I think

494
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 2: that that's part of it. What I would say to

495
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 2: people in their careers of like, okay, yeah, you have

496
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: the agency piece comes in. I have a plan for

497
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 2: my career. I see the pathway forward. Most jobs are

498
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 2: vehicles and not destinations. And I think that once you

499
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 2: sort of get that as part of the mentality, how

500
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 2: does this job as is this a vehicle that gets

501
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 2: me to the next opportunity? For if visibility is important

502
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 2: to me, if opportunity is important to me, if money

503
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: is important to me, how does this job become a

504
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 2: vehicle that gets me to that next destination? And that

505
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 2: vehicle and that job becomes a vehicle to get me

506
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 2: today next destination. Sometimes that that move may be within

507
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: the company. I tell employers all the time that your

508
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 2: next best employee might be your current employee. You just

509
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 2: have to move them into a space to where they

510
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 2: can thrive.

511
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 3: Right.

512
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: And so that's the other thing that I say to

513
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 2: to black folks, right, is that you have to have

514
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: a plan for your career. The last thing that the

515
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 2: REF says to a fighter in the ring every time

516
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 2: is protect yourself at all times. And that is the

517
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: way I think about us and our careers. Protect yourself

518
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 2: at all times means that if I get that pink

519
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: stuff tomorrow, I ain't got I ain't gotta get ready

520
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 2: because I'm already ready. My resume is updated every six months. Right,

521
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 2: if that comes at me, I also have I also

522
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: have a network where I'm keeping people. I've got my

523
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: personal border directors in place. They can help me walk

524
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 2: through that. Right. I've been thinking about what my next

525
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 2: opportunity should be or could be anyway, so I don't

526
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: have the same emotional attachment to this particular job, even

527
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 2: if I enjoyed the work, because I'm thinking about what

528
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 2: my next move could be Now, I may be disappointed, absolutely,

529
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 2: but I'm not gonna be disillusioning and not gonna be

530
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 2: defeated because I'm thinking about how do I protect myself

531
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: at all times and if I'm in a job where

532
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 2: i feel like that I'm contorting and I'm you know,

533
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: assimilation is exhausting, and if i feel like I'm balled

534
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 2: up in a not all the time, I always tell

535
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: people like, look, do not let these jobs rob you

536
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,239
Speaker 2: of your hairline, or your edges, or your relationship, or

537
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 2: your happiness, or your joy or your time with your kids.

538
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: Like there's so many places out here that will actually

539
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: appreciate the goodness that you bring to a professional setting.

540
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 2: And I talk about work in this way because we

541
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: when we talked about code switching at and our latest

542
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 2: survey with black professionals at LinkedIn, sixty black professionals felt

543
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: like that they had to code switch at work, and

544
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 2: forty two percent of them said that their parents and

545
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: their families told them that they need to do it right.

546
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: And so what I try to do is speak agency

547
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 2: into the professional lives of my friends or people who

548
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: see me on TV, or people who who I'm giving

549
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,479
Speaker 2: career advice to because I recognize that nobody was speaking

550
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: agency over my career until I was almost thirty or

551
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: forty years old. They were saying, don't do this, don't

552
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 2: do that. Better be thankful for that right, And I'm like,

553
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: you have agency if you put the right strategy in place,

554
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: You're looking at your network in the right way, you

555
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: get your skills to where they need to be. You

556
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: understand what your superpower is and what you bring to

557
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 2: the professional world that is special and you that helps

558
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: people solve problems that are important. You gonna be okay.

559
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 2: And you don't have to be in a space or

560
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: a job or a role for long periods of time

561
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 2: where you feel defeated or that you feel like that

562
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 2: there's no opportunity for you to grow. You better than

563
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: that you better at a.

564
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,719
Speaker 1: Job to that point, and this is the last one

565
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: I got for y'all. Want to do respectful. Your time

566
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: is DEI is under attack, right, and I have a view,

567
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: and it's been shown that every obstacle presents an opportunity.

568
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: And also that diversity is good for a business. It's

569
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: not just morally good, it's good for the bottom line,

570
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: and so that can't be lost.

571
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: I'm hoping.

572
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: You know, I'm saying it's completing like that can't be

573
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: lost on smart companies, that diversity is good for a business.

574
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: So if taking those two things, diversity is good for

575
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: business and they're is an opportunity in every obstacle, how

576
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: could this attack on the the E and I be

577
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: looked at differently other than just you know, woe is us?

578
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: You know they're trying to attack us again. How do

579
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: we see the opportunity here potentially?

580
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: Yo? So I look at it like this, right? Is

581
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: that I feel like D and I and DEI has

582
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: needed an overhaul for probably the last twenty years. I

583
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 2: think that, you know, we've made great strides, but I

584
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: think we low KI have been maybe doing it wrong

585
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: and not had the courage to actually you know, pull

586
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: the pull the lever stop and make them and make

587
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 2: a market shift. I think what the what the the

588
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: silver lining may be in this is that now DEI professionals,

589
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: the people who are really committed to it, they're about

590
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: to go back into the lab. They're going to go

591
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 2: back into the lab now with attorneys. They're going to

592
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: go back into the lab now with policy folks. And

593
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: that they and if they do the real work of saying, Okay,

594
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 2: how can we make this work unassailable? How can we

595
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 2: still get to what we need to do and make

596
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 2: this work unassailable. Let's go in and go under the

597
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: hood and actually take this moment and fix all of

598
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: these things. Let's fill in these gaps. And because Deus

599
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 2: has had some gaps, even the companies that have put

600
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 2: in major work, how do you now say, Okay, we're

601
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 2: about to go back into lab and what comes out

602
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 2: of this is gonna be unassailable. Right, It's gonna work.

603
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: We're gonna take the best of what we've seen and

604
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: we're gonna kick the old stuff out. Right. I hope

605
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 2: that we see on the other side of this is

606
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: that a whole new strategy emerges, a whole new way

607
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 2: of talking about this. The legislation and the potential court

608
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: cases is gonna make us use different language and different

609
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 2: words to talk about this, right, And I think that

610
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: we needed a language overhaul in DEI for a long

611
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 2: time anyway, And so this may be the forcing factor

612
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: that takes us from good to great. That's the way

613
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 2: I see it. I think the people who are truly

614
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 2: committed to it may be quiet in this next view,

615
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 2: this next eighteen to twenty four months. Some of the

616
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 2: people that have been really loud may have to get

617
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 2: quiet for a little while. But when they come back,

618
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 2: my gut says to me that a lot of people

619
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: are gonna come back, and they're gonna come back with

620
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: better ideas, better impact, better innovation, better ways of measurement,

621
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: and better ways of thinking about what impact looks like.

622
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: Because here's my think on it, will is that if

623
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 2: I go to a company and they say, oh, well,

624
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: I want you to know that they're fourteen percent of

625
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: the view of the of the US population is African

626
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: American and we have you know, ten percent African Americans

627
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 2: at this company, and you're like, oh wow, that's crazy,

628
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: Like that's crazy good for most companies in terms of representation.

629
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: But if all of those all of those black people

630
00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 2: went to Dartmouth, went to you know, they went to Dartmouth,

631
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: they went to Harvard, they went to Yale, talk to

632
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: me a little bit about representation again, right, Because you

633
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 2: can go to some companies and all of the black

634
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 2: folks came from the same three schools. I'm not saying

635
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: that that's a bad thing. I'm saying it ain't necessarily

636
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 2: representation thing, right, it's a thing. It's a thing. It's

637
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: a thing that we don't talk about because you know,

638
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 2: oftentimes we just happen to see some more black folks there,

639
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But I think that we're

640
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 2: gonna come back smarter, We're gonna come back stronger. And listen,

641
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 2: you're right about them. This is the last thing I'll

642
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 2: say is you're absolutely right about the the These companies

643
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 2: need representation. Ninety percent of the population growth that has

644
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 2: happened in this country in the last fifteen years has

645
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 2: come from communities of color. If you don't have black,

646
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 2: Latino Asian folks and listen also LGBTQ plus folks in

647
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 2: your companies helping you decode culture, you're not gonna sell

648
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: You're not gonna sell products in the way that you

649
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 2: need to sell products because you can't just engage. You

650
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 2: can't engage us in the same ways that you did

651
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 2: because the younger, younger people of color and younger women

652
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Speaker 2: of color in particular, are just not down for to

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Speaker 2: take the same things from companies that they do business

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00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 2: with that you know, previous generations were down to do.

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Speaker 2: And you've got to have that representation to really understand culture,

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00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 2: and I think culture is going to be particularly in

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00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 2: as the country becomes more and more diverse and becomes

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00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,919
Speaker 2: majority multicultural in just a short order of time. It's

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00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: going to be even more incummon upon these companies to

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00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 2: make sure that they not only have representation, but they

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00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: have representation that they're listening to and that they are

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00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 2: giving voice and optionality.

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Speaker 3: To Black Tech.

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Speaker 1: Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro Tech on

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00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: the Black Effect Podcast Network and Ihurt Media. It's produced

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00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas, with additional production

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00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: support by Sarah Ergin and Love Beach. Special thank you

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00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: to Michael Davis and Kay McDonald. Learn more about my

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Speaker 1: guests and other tech. This is an innovators at afrotech

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00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: dot com. I'm joining Black Tech Green Money. Share us

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00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: with somebody Go get your money.

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Speaker 3: He's in love