1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Runt you by Bank of America Mary Lynch. With virtual reality, 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:09,719 Speaker 1: virtually everything will change. Discover opportunities in a transforming world. 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: Be of a, mL dot Com, slash VR, Mary Lynch, 4 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: Pierced Fenner and Smith Incorporated. Ye, Welcome to the Bloomberg 5 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene with David Gura. Daily we 6 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: bring you insight from the best of economics, finance, investment, 7 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, 8 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg. A 9 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: pleasure to have with us here in our Bloomberg eleven 10 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 1: three Ust to Stephen Roach. Stephen Roach, of course, said 11 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: the former chairman of Morgan Stanley AGIA, former chief economist 12 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: at Morgan Stanley, now senior lecturer at the Jackson Institute 13 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: of Global Affairs at the Else School of Management. Uh, 14 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: we get this budget today, they'll be talk again of 15 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: growth expectations here in the US. You've been given some 16 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: thought to the expectations for growth more globally. Can we 17 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: start domestically and just to talk about what we've heard 18 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: from mcmulvanny, the Office of Management Budget Director. He spoke 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: yesterday saying the days of being content with one point 20 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: nine percent growth have to be put behind us. All 21 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: well and good that he says that, is there any 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: likelihood of that happening here in the near term in 23 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: the US, Well, David, there's there's always a likelihood of 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: anything happening. But I think to push the button and 25 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: go from two to three UH in a period where 26 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: productivity growth is still under pressure, where um you're not 27 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: going to get any uplift from growth in the labor force, 28 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: is going to be very, very difficult to achieve. So 29 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: I think any realistic assessment of the budget or the 30 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: debt trajectory over the next ten years, which one has 31 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: to go through to try to make some sense out 32 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: of this or any other president's budget proposal, is quite problematic. 33 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: We'll have a foreign policy expert on and ask him 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: or her what we know about the Trump doctrine, the 35 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 1: nascent Trump doctrine. I suppose in the realm of economics 36 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: we have trump anomics, and I wonder if we're any 37 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: closer to getting a clear definition of of what that is. Again, 38 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: mcmilvanny spoke yesterday and he said his definition is principally 39 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: that it's an effort to get sustained three percent economic 40 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: growth in this country. Again a very aspirational, golden aspirational definition. 41 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: Do you speaking debate all this um, but but you know, 42 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: I think we we have to be analytical and assessing, 43 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: UH where this budget deficit, how it fits into the 44 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: mosaic of of the U S economy. And I think 45 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: there's a real Achilles heel here, and that is that, UH, 46 00:02:54,800 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 1: the US right now has an extraordinarily low national savings rate. 47 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: That's the sum total of personal business and UH saving 48 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: plus the government budget deficits. And when you run a 49 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: low savings rate and you want to grow, you import 50 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: surplus savings from abroad, you run massive current account and 51 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: trade deficits to attract the capital. The Trump proposals, in 52 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: my view of realistic assessment, is they're not gonna be balanced. 53 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: You're gonna get budget deficits, so that will push the 54 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: national savings rate lower and make the current account deficit 55 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: wider and our trade deficits become more problematic in the 56 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: years ahead. So here's the catch, David, is that with 57 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: with budget deficits UH and trade deficits likely to expand, 58 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: Tom will be running these charts on the twin deficits. 59 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: Once again. Uh, You've got a president then, who wants 60 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: to turn protectionist against many of our trading partners. How 61 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: does that add up, Tom? How does it add up 62 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: to U to go protectionists at a time when your 63 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: trade defficences are getting bigger? This is vintage Stephen Roach. 64 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: I'm serious, David, this is this goes to the heart 65 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: of what I call balance sheet analysis. Let's stop the 66 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: show and explain to us that some savings rate which 67 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: includes the government deficit, what's it mean for the person 68 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg surveillance? It means that the United States 69 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: is growing beyond its means. Tom. We we we teach 70 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: um students when they take their very first economics course, 71 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you remember this, tom Um, that the 72 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: savings must always equal investment. It's an accounting identity. So 73 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: when we don't save at home, uh, we then borrow 74 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: savings from abroad and we run these big current account 75 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: balance of payments deficits and trade deficits to attract the capital. 76 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: And so the idea that we can uh now single 77 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: out our trading partners, whether they're in Germany, Japan. Of course, 78 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: China or Korea and others as being villains in what 79 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: they're doing to punish American middle class workers. This is 80 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: the most important point, is that we need these trade 81 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: deficits to square uh the saving investment identity United States 82 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: and David, what's so important about this and Dr Roach's 83 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 1: analysis is dead on is when I mentioned this in 84 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: speeches or discussions, often citing Stephen Roach, people are just 85 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: in disbelief. They're like, no, that's not true, disbelief because 86 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: my name or because you know, but but but Stephen, 87 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: this is important. Essentially every month by accounting identities, somebody's 88 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: got a right to check there's a flow. There's a 89 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: flow here every month. You know, I, I know, I'm 90 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: a broken record on on this tim We've gotten away 91 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: with it because where the world's reserve currency and um 92 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: you know a lot of countries, including most recently China, 93 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: have tied their currencies to the dollar, and so they 94 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: have to buy a lot of dollar based assets to 95 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: maintain that relationship. But you know, the day is coming 96 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: um uh, and we we never know when when the 97 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: world starts finding other places uh to um uh put 98 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: its um uh savings rather than a low return uh 99 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: US economy and then it becomes tougher for us to 100 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: fund are the circus savings we borrow on terms that 101 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: have been extremely attracted to us for a long long time. 102 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: It would be good to speak to someone with experience 103 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: on going with extended trips of leaders. That would be 104 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: Michael McKee, wh or a few years ago used to 105 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: be on the White House uh A circuit here as well. 106 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: I I look, Michael McKee at the exhaustion of the trip. 107 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: Is it real? Is that come with absolutely? I mean, 108 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: the hours are very long, you fly all night, you 109 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: get to where you're going, the Middle East in this case, 110 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: and you've got to start functioning immediately. The president has 111 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: a bed, but nobody else. Nobody else has a bed. 112 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: Your your jet lagged, You're tired, and the days are long. 113 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: David Girl, I believe we have a headline out crossing 114 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg are Islamic state claiming responsibility for the attack 115 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: in Manchester last night that came at the end of 116 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: a concert by Ariana Grande. We've been following this throughout 117 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: the morning. We'll bring you updates throughout the morning here 118 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg surveillance. This is according to site, and that's 119 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: a website of professionals who monitor social media chatter web 120 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: chatter about terrorist groups. We welcome all of you worldwide. 121 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Surveillance on Bloomberg Radio coast to coast. 122 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: So we say good morning to Bloomberg Boston FM in 123 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: Washington early morning and San Francisco in the Bay Area 124 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: over a special good morning to all of you, uh 125 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: in Europe and in the United Kingdom as well. On 126 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: London Radio, Michael McKee is here, uh, you know, to 127 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: talk about the president's trip and offer go to Rome. 128 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: But much more, Michael McKee about the budget. You've got 129 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: detailed notes. What was the thing that stuck out for 130 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: you in your note taking on this political document of 131 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: the president? Well, from the perspective I bring to it 132 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: of an economist, the Rosie scenario that the administration assumes 133 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: three growth from with no credible way of getting there. 134 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: Not only that they assume three percent growth and unemployment 135 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: goes up, uh, so much for the Phillips curve. So 136 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: at this point, uh, it's kind of hard to take seriously. 137 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: Larry Summers out with an interesting moments ago, uh, noting 138 00:08:54,280 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: that they double count the tax savings that the tax 139 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: cuts they propose will create a lot of growth and 140 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: at the same time will fill in the budget hole 141 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: caused by the tax cuts. And he called that ludicrous. 142 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: With within this in Stan Calendar writing in Forbes has 143 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: been a good friend of the show. Was made very 144 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: clear this is just simply undoable in your experience when 145 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: you try to quote unquote make budget cuts and operational government, 146 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: not entitlements. How much is a painful cut? How much? 147 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: Somebody asked me this last night. What's to the bone 148 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: in the fiscal world? Is it? Two? Is that the 149 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: cuts we're talking about, you have to take it program 150 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: by program. Uh. The way Washington works normally, what you 151 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: talk about when you talk about a cut is a 152 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: reduction in the rate of increase. Uh. The government continues 153 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: to spend more money because the United States continues to 154 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: get bigger, more and more people involved, and of course 155 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: the bureaucratic comparative to continually raise their own budgets. Uh. 156 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: So if you're talking about actual reductions that would probably 157 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: be painful, then you have to get into the question 158 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: of whether a program is worthwhile or working. And that's 159 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: much of the argument from this Office of Management and 160 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: budget that a lot of these programs don't work and 161 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: aren't worth funding. We've talked about assumptions. Just a moment 162 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: ago strikes me that the director of the OMBA mcmilvany, 163 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: is making a huge one here when he expects the 164 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: House version of the Republican healthcare bill to get through. 165 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: He's really counting on that for this to work. Absolutely. 166 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: The budget assumes eight hundred and sixty billion dollars in 167 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: Medicaid cuts. The budget assumes that there will be the 168 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: rollback of the Obama Care taxes that were imposed on 169 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: the wealthy. So yes, he's he This all assumes both 170 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: that they will pass the rollback of Obamacare, pass trump Care, 171 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 1: if you want to call it that, and cut taxes 172 00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: h to the levels that the administration is has proposed 173 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: to bring Congressman Jan Chikowski, she represents the ninth district 174 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: in Illinois, Democratic congressman on the House budget me, you're 175 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: not being accurate. The congresswoman represents my mother's heist there 176 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,719 Speaker 1: Trier High School, when that Illinois. That's the correct specificity 177 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: is key here, odd surveillance. Jeensickowski joining us on our 178 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: phone line is great to have you with us. You're 179 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: out with this statement here in advance of the budget 180 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 1: release this morning, I say you will resist this outrageous 181 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 1: proposal every step of the way. I I assume you're 182 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: regarding this budget is dead on arrival. Well, I hope 183 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: it's dead on arrival. I certainly do. I mean, this 184 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:39,359 Speaker 1: is a budget of broken promises and then new promises 185 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: that he can't keep. Like these massive tax cuts that 186 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: go for the wealthiest are actually going to create economic growth. 187 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: We've been there, done that hasn't hasn't worked. And meantime, 188 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: it's going to be on the backs of people who 189 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: need their Social Security and their Medicare and their Medicaid. 190 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: It's it's really remarkable. It's going to uh, you know, 191 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: the very people that he promised to UH to help 192 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: um and to to make life better for and make 193 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: America great for a great again are the ones that 194 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 1: are actually going to be hurt the most. Something that 195 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: Director mulvanny said yesterday and his briefing with reporters is 196 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: a real problem here is the efficacy of a lot 197 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: of these programs. Why should a taxpayer be paying money 198 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: toward a program that's only I think he's had six 199 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: percent effective. How does Congress, how do you and others 200 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: look and improve the efficacy of of programs? I gather 201 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: you probably don't have a lot of sympathy with the 202 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: argument that he that he's making there, But how about 203 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: the broader point here that there are programs that could 204 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: be working better? Well? First of all, when he talked 205 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: about about a month ago about meals on wheels that 206 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: there's no proof that those programs work, you ask the 207 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: people who are waiting in their homes every day I've 208 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 1: delivered those meals on wheels two people. Um, those programs 209 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: keep people out of nursing homes, which are more expensive. 210 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: He said that nutrition programs for children at at school 211 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: that there's no evidence that they really helped to increase learning. 212 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? So? First of all, as a 213 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: Democrat who believes that government programs work, yes, I want 214 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: to make sure that they are effective, and I'm willing 215 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: to look at that. But really, I mean that those 216 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: kinds of cons and believe me, in newchur Township or 217 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: New Tour High School is there are people who are 218 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 1: waiting for those meals right now? I would suggest congresswoman 219 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: out of Sullivan High School and with the Illinois blood 220 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: that you have, that the redrawn ninth district has people 221 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: that support a Republican ethos, a conservative ethos, even though 222 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: it is a very liberal district. What permeates the Trump theology, 223 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,719 Speaker 1: if you will, is we've got to figure out how 224 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: to get these people back on jobs, particularly with his 225 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: food stamps. What is the reality you've seen about the 226 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: snap program, the food stamp program, and the idea that 227 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: we need to get people back on jobs. How do 228 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: you dove tail that when you're on the opposite side 229 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 1: of the debate. Well, first of all, the about half 230 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: the people that that get nutrition assistance through the food 231 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: stamp program, the stamp program are children, and so certainly 232 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: if parents are going to be able to um, have 233 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: a raise of family and have a little bit of 234 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: help to put food on the table while they're looking 235 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: for their job or trying to get job training, which 236 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: by the way, is also caught in this budget, I 237 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: think it's pretty hard to explain to them that, you know, 238 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: a key element of this budget plan will be huge 239 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: tax breaks, mostly that go to the wealthiest Americans. Um. 240 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: You know, as they said this, this kind of idea 241 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: of trickled down is something that has been tried over 242 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: and over and over again. And when you cut the 243 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: state tax, which goes to just a few people, really 244 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: I think I think feeding helping to to make sure 245 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: that there's food on the table. And by the way, 246 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: those programs most people stay on them for a year 247 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: or left. It's kind of a bridge over troubled waters. 248 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: Let's do this. We are out of time today with 249 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: the horrific news flow we see here, particularly with a 250 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: tragedy in Manchester, United Kingdom. Cox Cocaswoman Chikowski, we look 251 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: forward to speaking to you again on the shores of 252 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: Lake Michigan, the Ninth District north of Chicago, and then 253 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: off to the west as well. Just seeing the footage 254 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: here at Eva Gerner Studios of the two Air Force ones, 255 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: that's how many people are on the trip in I 256 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: believe in tel Aviv. I may be wrong on that. 257 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: I can't tell where it is Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, 258 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: but they're both out waiting there to fly the President, David, 259 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: why don't you bring in the ambassador who is a 260 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: unique distinction of being ambassador to Israel in Egypt decade now, 261 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: a lecturer and professor at the Woodrow Wilson School of 262 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: Public International Fairs at Princeton Universe. That's Ambassador Daniel Kurtzer, 263 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: who joins us on our phone line. Since ambassad Kurz 264 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: to this was a quick trip, much has been made 265 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: of that, the brevity of some of these visits the President. 266 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: The President made in Israel today, What do we learn 267 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: about his attitude towards the Middle East peace process from 268 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: this visit to Israel, his meeting with the President of 269 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: Boss Palton Authority as well well. He reaffirmed during his 270 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: speech he just gave very strong commitment to try to 271 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: reach peace, indicated that in his conversations with President of 272 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: Boston Prime Minister Nataniello, both of them were ready to 273 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: reach forward. But he provided a very few details of 274 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: those discussions. That may be a good thing. The longer 275 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: he can continue to the dialogue in in quiet, rather 276 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: than try to publicly broadcast different issues, he may be 277 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: able to make incremental progress. But we really don't know 278 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: very much about either the President's view of how to 279 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: make peace. Well, what's the two sides hold him? What's 280 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: your sense of how the speech he made in Saudi 281 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: Arabia over the weekend rang out through Israel. That speech 282 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: in which he called for suiting nations largely to rally 283 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: together to fight against Iran and to purge themselves of 284 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: terrorist entities within within their populations. How do you think 285 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,479 Speaker 1: that played in Israel? Well, I think it was music 286 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: to the Israeli ears because he associated himself and the 287 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: United States with all of the same enemies that Israel 288 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: has identified Iran terrorists, countries that support terrorists, and uh, 289 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: there's really no distance between the United States and Israel 290 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: on those issues. What made the speech interesting is that 291 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: he did it in front of forty or fifty Arab 292 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: and Muslim leaders and in a sense conveyed the idea 293 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: that we now have a larger group of countries, not 294 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: just the US and Israel, that are ready to act 295 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: affirmatively against terrorism. And I think that was the key 296 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: takeaway from that speech. Where do we go from from here? 297 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: You mentioned that the speeches that he delivered were largely 298 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 1: short on specific I know the Secretary of State Rex 299 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: Tillerson was asked if there might be a trilateral meeting 300 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: here with the President of palacting authority at the Israeli 301 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: Prime Minister and the President of the United States, and 302 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: in the future. He demurred. He didn't answer that question. 303 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: How do you go from the rosie rhetoric we heard 304 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: from the president to action here after what several years now, 305 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: if they're being very little process on peace. Well, Frankly, 306 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: I'm actually buoyed by the fact that the administration did 307 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: not seek some kind of the media takeaway. I mean, 308 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: there's always just tendency to look for a deliverable, you know, 309 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: what can what we announce as some big outcome of visit. 310 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: And I think there was a lot of speculation before 311 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: the visit that the president would want to announce a 312 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: trilateral meeting or some it of some sort involving the 313 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: Arab States, and that didn't happen. Now, it's possible it 314 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: didn't happen because she tried and failed, But it's also 315 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: possible because he realized that this is a very complicated 316 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: set of issues and you can't go for short term gains. 317 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: You really have to be in it for the long haul. 318 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: So we'll see over the next period of what the 319 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: next steps are. He'll probably send out his envoy, Jason Greenblatt. 320 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: We now have an ambassador in place in Israel who 321 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: can move this issue on a day to day basis 322 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: uh and if those next steps indicate a continuation of 323 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: the dialogue, then I think because we have some reason 324 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: to believe that this will go on for a while. 325 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: Ambassador to thank you so much. Daniel Kurtzer with us 326 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: from the Woodrow Wilson School as well the former Ambassador 327 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: of the United States to Israel, David what a more. 328 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: The news flow is just an extraordinary, incredible beginning with 329 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: that a terrorist attack. We've been covering their threat, the 330 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: point that took place that last evening, and of course 331 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: the presence visit to Israel apping up. Now he's back 332 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: at the King David Hotel. He will leave for Rome. 333 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: I believe in about an hour's a time. He'll head there, 334 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: have an audience with with the Pope, and then he 335 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: presses onward to two major summit, the first being the 336 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: NATO Summit in Brussels and then the seven Summit in Italy. 337 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: Is still a long way for this present to go 338 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: before he makes his way back to Washington or Kevin 339 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: Cirelli in Jerusalem. Touching on the domestic challenges of Washington 340 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: as well. Brunt You by Bank of America Mary Lynch 341 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: with virtual reality virtually everything will change. Discover opportunities in 342 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: a transforming world. VI of a mL dot Com slash vr, 343 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: Mary Lynch, Pierced Fenner and Smith Incorporated. There's something new 344 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: from Bloomberg. It's called Lens. Starting right now, you can 345 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: use the Bloomberg iOS app off your iPhone or iPad, 346 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: or our new Google Chrome extension to read any news 347 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: story on any website, scan it, and then instantly see 348 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: the news stories relevant market data from Bloomberg. In addition, 349 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: see all the bios of the key people mentioned in 350 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: the story. It's called lens, and it is just that, 351 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: a lens into the people and the data of any 352 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: story you may be reading. Again. Lens brings you the 353 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: power of Bloomberg's news and data. Download or io s 354 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: app or search for the Bloomberg extension at the Chrome 355 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: store to try lens out. Learn more at Bloomberg dot 356 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: Com slash Lens. I've been waiting for this interview David 357 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 1: Gura sent the moment I heard that Mr Fields was out. 358 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: My opinion doesn't matter on this, but we do have 359 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: the considered opinion of the cars are. If you're going 360 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: to Google and type up cars are you get the 361 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 1: Wikipedia for one, s rat and Steve Rattner, of course, 362 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: appears often with us. He has a wonderful journalist integrity 363 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: along with his financial knowledge, and was selected at one 364 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: point to save Detroit. You didn't have to save Ford 365 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: when you were in the trenches of being a czar, 366 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 1: which is a phrase you and I hate. How distinctive 367 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: was dear Born? How different was Bill Ford, the family 368 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: and the company. It's something that fascinated me because you 369 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: had these companies that were essentially identical in every respect 370 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: in terms of their customers, their footprint, all these things. 371 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: But yet Ford did not need our help, and the 372 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: others did, and it was simply a question of management. 373 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: Ford had better management. They anticipated the crisis, they put 374 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: money in the bank, and of course, famously for Bill, 375 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: Ford reached out to Alan Mollallely, who, other than owning 376 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: a car, probably knew nothing more about cars than that, 377 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: and he turned out to be one of the great 378 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: CEOs of our generation. We'll talk a bit more about that, 379 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: the shadow into which Mark Fields stabbed aln Milelly of 380 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: of Boeing Vintage. Coming to to Dearborn, what did he 381 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: do well? For Ford? He changed the culture? What what 382 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 1: Bill Ford always felt was that Detroit was way too insular, 383 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: that it was industry people talking, industry people playing golf 384 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: of the industry people, and he wanted to shake Ford up, 385 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: and he wanted an outsider who would bring a fresh 386 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: perspective and a whole different management approach. And I think 387 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: you see that courage being demonstrated yet again here where 388 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: he's reached out to another non traditional auto executive and said, 389 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: this industry is in the bigger in the midst of 390 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: actually a much bigger transformation than even what we dealt 391 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: with in two thousand and nine, and he just wanted 392 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: to have fresh leadership to do that. You mentioned that 393 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 1: the perceptiveness anticipating the financial crisis to come. Are we 394 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: seeing that here as well? Is is forward making a 395 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: calculated smart step in your estimation looking to driverless cars 396 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: to self driving vehicles, it's not. Yes, I think they are, 397 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: but remember it's not just driverless cars. There are three 398 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: things happening that are going to transform this industry. Driverless 399 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: cars are one, Electrification is a second, but probably the 400 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: biggest one is ride sharing. The average cars only used 401 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,959 Speaker 1: four percent of the time. It's most family's second biggest 402 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: capital asset. The rest of the time it sits in 403 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: the garage. You're gonna see. I think a dramatic reduction 404 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: in the number of cars Americans need to buy, and 405 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 1: Detroit is going to have to reposition itself for that reality. 406 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: Can you quantify that from eighteen million seventeen million the 407 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: run rate is sixty million? Where Steve Rattner's new sixteen million. 408 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: I honestly don't know, Tom it's fair, but it's a 409 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: very fair question. I think it could be twelve. I 410 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: think it could be eleven. It could be something like that. 411 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: I want to go back, and we can do this 412 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: with Ratner, folks, because he was Honors Economics at Brown, 413 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: So it's somebody that actually moved the pencil. One of 414 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: the great unspoken is in corporate America is slick guys 415 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: versus the grind. And time after time after time, I 416 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: see companies with an engineering and economics ethos within the 417 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: C class officers go to marketing guys, go to the 418 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: smooth guys, and then they have to reverse. I saw 419 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: the Google. There was a tangential move at Google. Eastman 420 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 1: Kodak I lived in. Is that what we saw here? 421 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: I mean within the happy talk of the center from 422 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: the University of Michigan football team, blah blah blah, is 423 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: just really about an engineering ethos like Mallally that took 424 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: a sidestep with Mark Fields and wants to go back 425 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: to somebody that understands how to code or understands how 426 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: to read a slide rule. I suspect there's some truth 427 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: to remember. One of the oddities of the situation is 428 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: that these guys worked together for twenty five years. It's 429 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: not like Bill Ford met Mark Fields three weeks exactly 430 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: and so. And it's a little bit like the Disney 431 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,239 Speaker 1: situation where you had a guy, Tom Staggs, who had 432 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: worked with Bob Iger for twenty years and then discovered 433 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: he wasn't see material. It's very unusual when that happens. 434 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: But I do think it is a move away from 435 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: you called marketing or whatever towards a transformational leader. I think, 436 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: more even than engineering economics, I think Bill Ford wanted 437 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 1: another transformational leader. What did Mary Burro get right, Well, 438 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: we don't know yet. When Mary barn has gotten right. 439 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: Mary bar has done a good job of calming the waters. 440 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: She's I think made some smart moves and getting out 441 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: of a lot of these margins. Getting out, getting out 442 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: of the marginal mark. Getting out is what this is about. Yeah, 443 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: but you know again, when I was doing cars, there 444 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: was a view that to be a global car maker, 445 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: you need to be a global carmaker. And now the 446 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,719 Speaker 1: view has changed. We'll find out if she's right or not. 447 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: But that's certainly her view. Um. But but again this 448 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: is this is this race is going to be defined, uh, 449 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 1: not by whether you make cars an India or not. 450 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: It's going to be defined by the three factors that 451 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier. How hard is it to affect cultural 452 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: change at these companies? They've been around for a long time, 453 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: they're huge, they have such legacies to them. Obviously, you 454 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: can make changes when you're under financial pressure to do so, 455 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: but to to embark on a radical change in culture, 456 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: how hard. It's It's less hard than you would think. 457 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: And throughout my career I have been struck by the 458 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: ability of great leaders to make cultural change and institutions 459 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: that I thought were impervious best. One of the best 460 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: examples is Luke Gersoner going to IBM when it was 461 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: in trouble and he and he affected huge cultural change. 462 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: Steve Jobs going back to Apple, I mean, you can 463 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: go on. The list is fairly long. It's not it's 464 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: it's not impossible when you look at the relations I 465 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: want to ask you just about the relationship these companies 466 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: have had recently with with the White House. What's that 467 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: meant in your in your estimation, You've had Mary Barr, 468 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: You've had Mark Fields going to the White House with 469 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: great frequency for a time early on in this administration 470 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: to meet with with the president. What's the strength of 471 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: that connection, that that conduit between the greater Detroit area 472 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: and Washington. Right now? Trump is a manufacturing guy, and 473 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: he and and and when you go to Silicon Valley, 474 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: where I was a couple of weeks ago, they feel 475 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: a little unloved by this administration. Uh. In contrast, if 476 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: you make something, you feel very loved. For the point 477 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: of view the company is, if the president invites you, 478 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: of course you go because it can't be bad for 479 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 1: your business and may be good for your business. And 480 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,719 Speaker 1: obviously presidents very focused on auto jobs and auto plants 481 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: and where they're built and where they're not built and 482 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. So if I were the 483 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: CEO of an auto company, I would try to stay 484 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 1: close to the White House as well. Boston yesterday at 485 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,959 Speaker 1: this TMT conference that JP Morgan arranged there. Steve may 486 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: not know that cost there's a city to the northeast 487 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: were the baseball team one game above five. You may 488 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: not know. I went to Good morning to all of 489 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: you on route this morning. Continuous. A point that somebody 490 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: made there is you're looking at who's buying tech companies 491 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: investing in tech companies. That's a lot of traditional manufactories, 492 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: traditional companies. You talk about the the uneasy relationship perhaps 493 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: between Washington of today in Silicon Valley. How difficult is 494 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: it for a traditional company like Ford to marry with 495 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: or do work with tech companies. How how difficult is 496 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,959 Speaker 1: the the marrying of those two things. It's hard, and 497 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: some are more successful than others. I think the good 498 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: news is they're all trying. All the auto companies now 499 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: have a footprint of some sort. Obviously GM did that 500 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: large acquisition, Forward did this kind of joint ventury thing 501 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: with BlackBerry of ball things, which has an operating system. 502 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: They all know that they have to do this, but 503 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: it is hard. It's not in their DNA, and we'll 504 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: have to see how it i'n false. Steve Retner, thank 505 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: you so much. Thank you for having guys today, probably 506 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: mostly on the Ford Motor Company of Dearborn at Michigan, 507 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: David Guru, I am on the vintage where I am 508 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: still in lawe of these seven forty seven there are 509 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: seven forty seven's and then there's one and it is 510 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: air Force one taxiing Dave had been a great airport. 511 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: It is just there's just it's generational. I'm sure there's 512 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: something else to be in awe of, but it is 513 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: something to see that plane get out there in text. 514 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: I don't think there's a wait. I don't think I 515 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: don't think he's got a time on the well. But 516 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if you know I've mentioned this on 517 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: air folks, but I had a modest waited Reagan a 518 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: month ago with our producer Kieran Buchanan Rita Gupta. I 519 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: believe that was a four hour wait. Surveillance correction coming here, 520 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: Michael Midtown East writing in noting that I was mistaken 521 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: when I said that that flight that President Trump took 522 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: from Saudi Arabia to Druthan flying child, you rather flying 523 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: that route was a pioneering flight Glenn Kessler of the 524 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: Washington Post, noting that in two thousand and eight, President 525 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: George W. Bush made a similar direct flight, but in 526 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: the reverse order, going between Israel Landing and Saudio. Anyway, 527 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: thank you to Michael in Midtown East. We value our 528 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: listeners who are always wiser than we are. We've learned that. 529 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: No excuse me, let me not speak for you, David, 530 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: I've learned that more often than now. What I've learned 531 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: is it Spenno O'Donnell has a unique respective on the 532 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: United Kingdom. She is our reporter in Parliament. In there's 533 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: just something I think Spenya. Being a reporter in Parliament 534 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: is more romantic than being a reporter on Capitol Hill. 535 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: What's it like? Actually being a reporter in Parliament is 536 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: is luxurious, as I would think. I don't know about 537 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: the cruise. I don't think the culpets have been changed. Um, 538 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: it's certainly. I mean, you're in a beautiful historic building 539 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: and and it's a it's a very strange and quirky institution. 540 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: Um in a way sort of fulfills every every cliche 541 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: you've had about probably English public schools, because it very 542 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: much feels like being in one um at the same 543 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: time you're in the you know you're in the corridors 544 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: of power um and you know you're It gives you 545 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: a very very unique perspective, but also in a way 546 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: you've got to be careful not to have a narrow 547 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: one from that because it is a it is a 548 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: very closed world, the unfortunate reality. And we make jokes 549 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: about Parliament in spanness Christian job. But there is terror 550 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: on the River Thames and there's terror in Manchester. How 551 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: will the United Kingdom link those two acts of violence? Well, 552 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: I think the Manchester attack is emerging is something quite different. 553 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: There have been arrest made, the police have made several 554 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: raids since last night. It's looking less and less like 555 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: a learned world attack. We've had several commentators saying that 556 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: I think for the UK broadly, it's something that people 557 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: have been expecting for some time. And compared to France, 558 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: which is which has suffered a few attacks in the 559 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: last year, there's so far been the security services seemed 560 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: to have managed to keep quite a few out in 561 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: the UK, but the UK has certainly been a target 562 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: for a while. Where are we in terms of the 563 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: investigation The Prime Minister Against speaking this morning outside ten 564 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: Downing Street, said that Tim she's confident that the Security 565 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: Service knows the identity of the perpetrator of this attack. 566 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: The investigation is ongoing. What's your sense of where things 567 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: are and where they're heading. Well, I think they're going 568 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: to be very very careful into releasing any further details 569 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: because it's looking increasingly like they may have suspected that 570 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: there were more than one person involved in several people 571 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: at play, whether that was just people who didn't denounce 572 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: a potential attack or some more sinister planning going on. 573 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: So for security reasons, I think that's probably all were 574 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: likely to hear for some time. What's emerging so heartbreaking 575 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: Lee in the last hour is details on some of 576 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: the victims. The youngest victim is an eight year old 577 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: girl who was at the concert with her family, and 578 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: it's that kind of detail, unfortunately, that we're likely to 579 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,959 Speaker 1: get more clarity on as as the day unfolds. How 580 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: about the the identification of victims? Are we are we 581 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,959 Speaker 1: getting any identifications thus far? Is that something that's being 582 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: closely held as well? Well? We've only had two victims identified, 583 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: one an eighteen year old girl in one of the 584 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: eight year old girl I just mentioned, uh time mentioned 585 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: the attack on Parliament just a couple of weeks weeks ago. 586 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: Is there response to these events uniform? In other words, 587 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: are we are we seeing what's happening here mirror what 588 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: happened after that that event as well. But I think 589 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: there's more of a sense today of police really stepping 590 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: up to the mark, and that sort of tells you 591 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: that they're treating this a little bit differently. The Westminster 592 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: attack was horrible, but you know, it was a man 593 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: in a car. It very much looked it had all 594 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: the hallmarks of a of a lone wolf attack. This 595 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: is a suicide bomber that requires a level of planning. 596 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: They've evacuated a shopping center earlier today, they've made several 597 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: raids and houses in South Manchester that arrested someone in connection. 598 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 1: So this seems to have all the hallmarks of a 599 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: planned attack. I drove by the terms the other day 600 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: and I believe it was the new Scotland Yard building. 601 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: Tell us about intelligence in the United Kingdom. Identify the 602 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: m I or this or that in Scotland Yard and 603 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: how they fit in to the protection of the United Kingdom. Well, 604 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: what's been interesting is it's had a bit of a 605 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: checkered history in recent years because there have been cutbacks 606 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: to security services, to police forces. But in the last 607 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: couple of years they've really beefed up sections such as 608 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,879 Speaker 1: the sort of online data internet surveillance where a lot 609 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: of these terrorist activities are tracked. Of course, you know, 610 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: these cells are often formed on kind of special sites 611 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: and that's one thing that they've really sort of stepped up. 612 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: I think. However, but this incident is really going to 613 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: highlight is that security is going to be very much 614 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: part of the dialogue again, and inevitably the fact that 615 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: there have been cutbacks in the last ten years is 616 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 1: going to become a matter of discussion. Sonya Donald, thank 617 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: you so much for prospective this morning. She is a 618 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: bloomberg news in our parliament reporter. Let me ask you, 619 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: Director wils if I could just how you reacted to 620 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: the reports in the post in the Times of the 621 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: President in that meeting with the kisley At, the Russian 622 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: ambassador to the US and the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey 623 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: Lavrov evidently reportedly sharing closely held information with them, declaring 624 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: afterward that that is that within his mandate, he's able 625 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: to do it. How did you, as somebody who's spent 626 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: a career in the intelligence side of things, react to 627 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: what happened there? Well, the president is the ultimate authority 628 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: of classificified material, and if he says something is classified, 629 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: unless you want to impeach him, Uh, it's classified. So 630 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: there's no real dispute about it. Uh. In terms of 631 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:34,320 Speaker 1: his responsibility, it's clear. And the president is the ultimate 632 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: authority on this. And so people who think he has 633 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: been misusing that authority are in a great difficulty because 634 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 1: they can't factually cite individual words, documents, sentences, numbers, or whatever. Uh. 635 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,919 Speaker 1: You can recite something that somebody said, somebody said, somebody said, 636 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: But uh, if you can't prove your case, Uh, there's 637 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: really only one answer, which is that it is the 638 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: president's authority. Now, if you ask, hypothetically, would it be 639 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: a good idea to share with Russian establishment at the top? Um? 640 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: And this is a KGB state we're talking about for 641 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: all practical purposes um Uh, any information that might lead 642 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: to they're figuring out how we were getting important intelligence. 643 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: That would be a very bad choice. But people make 644 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: choices in those jobs. For different reasons. I was faced 645 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: one time with the question, uh, whether or not to 646 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:49,400 Speaker 1: go to a major media owner and explained to him 647 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 1: in terms that he could understand, but which also disclosed 648 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 1: some extremely sensitive intelligence, UH, whether or not I would 649 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: do that or just sit there and let them publish 650 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: without knowing something that could well give away an agent. 651 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: And I decided to go to the executive and explain 652 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: to him exactly what was going on. And he said, okay, 653 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: we won't we won't use the number in the story, 654 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: thank you. And I said, that's that's the way it's 655 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: supposed to work. But but you can't really do that 656 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 1: with uh, you know, a Russian uh intelligence officer masquerading 657 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,800 Speaker 1: as a diplomat. If I be interrupt, this is important. 658 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: The president has a unique relationship with Mr Putin and 659 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: with Russia. You you supported the president, you were part 660 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,320 Speaker 1: of his campaign, and you abruptly walked away. Does President 661 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 1: Trump understand James Woolsey's Russia? I don't know. UM, I'm 662 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 1: I didn't really walk away. I just told them I 663 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: wanted to recognize that I was not advising the transition. 664 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: Might advise the campaign, but they weren't asking me for 665 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: advice on the transition. I was still out uh doing 666 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: press interviews and so forth, but I just didn't want 667 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:14,399 Speaker 1: to fly under false colors. UM. I I think that Russia, 668 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: even though it's ideology, Soviet ideology, is dead. Um really 669 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: has historically except for the reign of the wonderful Alexander 670 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 1: the Second. I wish they had more of him. Uh. 671 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 1: Russia is a bit like the old farmer that Abraham 672 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: Lincoln used to say lived on the farm next to 673 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: his parents when he was growing up. The old boy 674 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: used to say, I don't need much land, just what 675 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: it joins mine. That's kind of Russia. Uh. You know, 676 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: if if you've got uh one country, region or area, 677 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: then it's pretty good chance that maybe be a good 678 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: idea to take the next one. And that they've always 679 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,240 Speaker 1: been like that. It's it's not any thing particularly related 680 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: to to their recent communist passed, but they're My experience 681 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: with them in for negotiations, three of them were really 682 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,720 Speaker 1: really tough, and we made modest progress. One I headed 683 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:24,320 Speaker 1: up the conventional force in Europe negotiations and uh Vienna, 684 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: uh and uh. Right after the Berlin Wall went down, 685 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: you have never seen such friendly Russians. Let me tell 686 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: you we were popular guys. Oh yes, this is critical. 687 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: Dexter Filkins wrote yesterday on Jim Maddis General Madis in 688 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,840 Speaker 1: the New Yorker magazine. David Gerr and I interviewed the interview. 689 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: Everyone's saying, what a Secretary Tiller is going to do? 690 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: What is Secretary Maddis going to do to instruct this president? 691 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: Do you agree with that that they're the adults in 692 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: the room and that they've got to somehow mold inform 693 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 1: this unique president. Well, Uh, they've got a lot to 694 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: do because President has a lot of experience negotiating and 695 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 1: some experience uh with Russians, although not a great deal, um, 696 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: but that isn't all you need in order to be 697 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,839 Speaker 1: able to deal with the Russians. And I think that 698 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: he started out with a somewhat friendlier uh stance than 699 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: has now evolved over the course of the last several weeks. 700 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: Even good a question. Let me ask you just go 701 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: going back to intelligence sharing. I think that you know, 702 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: we're looking at the Brexit process play out obviously that 703 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,319 Speaker 1: that could have grave consequences for how much intelligence has 704 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 1: shared with and by the United Kingdom. We saw what 705 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: happened reportedly in the Oval Office as well. Certainly this 706 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: is going to be something I think that will come 707 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: up at the NATO summit that next week. What's the 708 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 1: state of the way that we share intelligence right now? 709 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,040 Speaker 1: Are we doing it effectively? Is at being done in 710 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,759 Speaker 1: in the most effective white there's not a single UH approach. 711 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: Sometimes you're working on something jointly with a country that 712 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,799 Speaker 1: you're very friendly with, that you've worked with many times 713 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:16,040 Speaker 1: in the past. Let's say Britain UH, and UM, you 714 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: actually develop an asset or a technique with the two 715 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 1: of you making a contribution. In those circumstances, even if 716 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: the United States does most of the collecting of the intelligence, UM, 717 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,840 Speaker 1: you wouldn't be able to operate jointly and effectively for 718 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 1: very long. If you said to the British okay, bye, 719 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: bye bye, thank you for the help. We'll just sit 720 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: on this now ourselves. We don't do that. We we 721 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:51,919 Speaker 1: work closely with with friends and allies, and sometimes that 722 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: doesn't go well, but lots of the time it doesn't. 723 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,359 Speaker 1: Multiplies are are effectiveness. We'd like you to come back 724 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: and just as the beginning idea to talk about the 725 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 1: state of our Navy. A lot to talk about there 726 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 1: there is. I'm I'm worried about carriers survivability, especially if 727 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 1: it's true that the Russians have this two plus moel 728 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,520 Speaker 1: per hour torpedo that they've provided to the Iranians. That's 729 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: a deadly idea, and particularly within the close confines of 730 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,239 Speaker 1: the Persian golfer just outside of James Wilsey, thank you 731 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,000 Speaker 1: so much. He has the sixteenth Director of the Central 732 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:39,360 Speaker 1: Intelligence Agency and we're thrilled to have him in today. 733 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and 734 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 1: listen to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast 735 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom Keene. David 736 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: Gura is at David Gura. Before the podcast, you can 737 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio. Brunt You by 738 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: Bank of America Mary Lynch. With virtual reality, virtually everything 739 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: will change. Discover opportunities in a transforming world, be of 740 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,880 Speaker 1: a mL dot Com, slash VR, Mary Lynch, Pierced Fenner 741 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 1: and Smith Incorporated,