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Speaker 1: On the beck Doll Cast. The questions asked if movies

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Speaker 1: have wenen and um, are all their discussions just boyfriends

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Speaker 1: and husbands or do they happened individualism the patriarchy zef

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Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the beck del Cast. Hi,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the back Doll Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus,

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Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Durante. And we're back, Baby, We're back.

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Speaker 1: I mean, for you guys were never we were never gone.

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Speaker 1: But for us, we were gone. We were gone in

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Speaker 1: the sunset. I was out of town for a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks and we changed and you were gone. You

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Speaker 1: were also gone. I'm so sorry to forget your experience,

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Speaker 1: even though I just said I was gone. Wait, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was gone for longer. So I feel like I win.

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Speaker 1: That is what I want to think about it. You

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Speaker 1: actually did win the contest of being gone. And then

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Speaker 1: also we are recording in yet a different place than

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Speaker 1: we have in all of our other episodes. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: we were mostly at the studio at Maldon Comics. And

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Speaker 1: then we record at a few episodes at the Ruby,

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Speaker 1: which is a comedy venue next door to Meltdown Plug,

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Speaker 1: A good venue venue. Sorry, I shouldn't have say good.

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking about, well, we'll get there. We'll

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Speaker 1: get there. Now. We are recording in the How Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works studio. Yeah, I'm freaking. I mean, daily Zeitgeist is

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Speaker 1: recorded here. We're here pretty frequently. I love a snack

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Speaker 1: set up here. The one note one note for this

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Speaker 1: amazing new space we're being allowed to use. Um Aristotle

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Speaker 1: is a full pane of glass away from us. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and that is new and I have to turn around

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Speaker 1: to see him. It's really well, we're experimenting with the

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Speaker 1: chair set up like this. I would say, this isn't

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Speaker 1: like I don't know. We'll see, we'll feel it out. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: we're excited. Were excited. We've got an a v club

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Speaker 1: right up. Today we did that was a kick. By

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Speaker 1: the time you're you'll hear this episode, it'll be weeks away.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's new for us today. Yeah. Yeah, with

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Speaker 1: our Anna Josie episode on She's all that. So we're excited.

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Speaker 1: We get a lot of stuff to talk about today.

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Speaker 1: I'm so thrilled about our guests today. Let's oh wait,

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Speaker 1: what's the vital test? Oh yeah, let's talk about that.

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Speaker 1: Forgot So the Bechtel Cast is a podcast where we

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Speaker 1: talk about the portrayal of women and it's inspired by

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Speaker 1: the Bechdel Test, which requires that a movie has two

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Speaker 1: female identifying characters in it who have names, who speak

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Speaker 1: to each other, and their conversation has to be about

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Speaker 1: anything other than a man. Can I give you literally

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Speaker 1: the most like insane example of the Bechtel test being passed?

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Speaker 1: So for work this week, for work, I had to

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Speaker 1: play this anime porn game called Pussy Saga. For I

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Speaker 1: didn't have to play it for ten hours, but I

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Speaker 1: did play it for ten hours. Pussy Saga, I mean,

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Speaker 1: by and large, really just a scourge on humanity where

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Speaker 1: it's all animal titties. It's to choose your own adventure

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Speaker 1: game and the setup is wild. The setup is that

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Speaker 1: the Greek poet Sappho has been kidnapped, famous queer Greek

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Speaker 1: poet Sappho has been kidnapped by a sex demon and me,

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Speaker 1: the player also me personally, has to fill a jar

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Speaker 1: with the come of five different women uh in order

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Speaker 1: to rescue the Greek poets Sappho. And that's the conceived

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Speaker 1: of the game, which is wild. To hear from a

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Speaker 1: woman you meet because she is broken into your home.

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Speaker 1: It is masturbating on your bed. This is not called

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Speaker 1: into question. This is the rules of the universe. So

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Speaker 1: I go in there like, okay, I know you just

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Speaker 1: got me masturbating. But here's the thing. The Greek poets

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Speaker 1: Sappho has been kidnapped and you need to get the

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Speaker 1: come of five women or she will die. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, okay, let's do it. Anyways, you have to,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of spread your seed. And it's very

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Speaker 1: problematic and I don't have time to get into it.

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Speaker 1: But the way you meet the women who's come, you

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Speaker 1: can say, truly get to release the Greek poets afo.

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Speaker 1: The way you meet is there is a conversation, a

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Speaker 1: cut scene where they talk to each other, which means

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Speaker 1: every woman you've ever had sex with knows each other

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Speaker 1: by one degree of separation. Another crazy world rule. But

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Speaker 1: I mean that's pretty much part for the course for me.

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Speaker 1: So there, Wow, you're such a wild child. There's okay.

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Speaker 1: So this is a scene between Marina and Linda, both

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Speaker 1: of whom I've had digital sex with. Also, you don't

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Speaker 1: actually have c intercourse or have sex with them. You

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Speaker 1: see basically play candy crush and then at the end

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Speaker 1: it's like you fucked her, she's yours now, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's wild you play puzzles. So they have this really

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Speaker 1: like kind of sweet cutaway scene about Linda's relationship with

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Speaker 1: her mom right before I have sex with both of them.

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Speaker 1: This is your mom still nagging you. You need to

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Speaker 1: tell her this relationship isn't normal. And then Linda says,

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Speaker 1: I don't know she's my mother. After all, I'm not

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Speaker 1: afraid of her or anything. I just feel lousy when

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Speaker 1: I'm around owned her. That passes the PacTel shirt. And anyways,

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Speaker 1: this episode is sponsored by Pussy Saga and do not

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Speaker 1: play it well. This has been a long and trail. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I'm glad you shared that with us. It's important

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Speaker 1: for our listeners to know. I wrote a three thousand

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Speaker 1: word essay about it. So there's more if you're interested

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Speaker 1: in pussy tagas. Anyways, let's get to our podcast that

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Speaker 1: we have. Let's do that just got very disturbed our

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Speaker 1: guest today. We're very excited about um. She owns and

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Speaker 1: runs the Good Good Comedy Theater in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania

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Speaker 1: being the state that I'm from. Interesting that you made

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Speaker 1: that about you, So sorry. I just started for four

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Speaker 1: to five minutes about anyway. She is wonderful. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: love her. Kate Banford, Hello, Thanks. Okay, I also feel

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Speaker 1: very rude because I told you to say that, but

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Speaker 1: I should say I co own and co run it

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Speaker 1: with Aaron Evans, who my other half. Well that's another

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Speaker 1: one of the great, another great, great person. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: being here, and thanks for bringing us the movie Eternal

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Speaker 1: Sunshine of the Spotless Mine. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited to talk about it. So what's your

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Speaker 1: history with this movie? When did you first see it? So?

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Speaker 1: I don't remember. I was trying to rack my brain

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Speaker 1: of the first time I saw this movie, and I

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Speaker 1: don't quite recall, but I feel like I probably saw

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Speaker 1: it for the first time when I was like a teen,

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Speaker 1: maybe like in my fifteens sixteens, and that era, which

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Speaker 1: is pre ever having a serious relationship or hating someone

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Speaker 1: while also loving them in that particular way. Um, but

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Speaker 1: I had just rewatched this movie. Actually, it's crazy. I

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Speaker 1: watched the movie recently, cried afterwards for like twenty minutes straight,

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Speaker 1: and then I watched the commentary, like right, after that

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Speaker 1: as well, and then I watched it again this morning,

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Speaker 1: so I've really been just knee deep in some nal

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Speaker 1: sunshine recently. Sure, yeah, it's really good. It's yeah. I

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Speaker 1: think part of the reason why I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about this movie is it's just so emotionally captivating and

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Speaker 1: it's like also just like visually, it's like stimulating to

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Speaker 1: all the senses except for taste. I taste, I can

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Speaker 1: taste smart RUFFLOA wow, very h that was my big

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Speaker 1: crush take away from this movie was a new I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I knew who Mark Rufflo was before

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Speaker 1: I saw this movie. Well when did you first see

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I watched it with a group of

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Speaker 1: girls sometime in my junior year of high school. I think,

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Speaker 1: so pretty young, pretty impressionable, kind of like UK like

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Speaker 1: couldn't fully relate to it, but like like the few

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Speaker 1: lines in this movie that everyone says all the time,

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Speaker 1: I was like, because this was like, this is such

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Speaker 1: an interesting example of like manic Pixie dream girl being

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Speaker 1: commented upon before that term was even in the world,

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Speaker 1: and I was worried about that going into this view

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Speaker 1: because I've seen it. I think again in college. Maybe

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Speaker 1: one out of This is probably the fourth or fifth

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Speaker 1: time I was watching it ever, and I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about it because I saw you last week and you

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Speaker 1: were you were like, I watched the movie and then

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Speaker 1: I wanted the commentary. I was like, wow, I need

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Speaker 1: to like revisit it, and I was worried about how

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Speaker 1: it would hold up. But all the like red flags

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Speaker 1: I wrote down in the first half of the movie

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Speaker 1: are commented on and resolved by the end of the movie,

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Speaker 1: and I was it just feels good to like a

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Speaker 1: movie still and not be like, well, this one goes

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Speaker 1: back in the trash, even though it made me weep

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Speaker 1: as a teenager. I was sobbing last night. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: so sad. It just it really captures like true human ocean.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know what the red flags are you're

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Speaker 1: talking about. I didn't really think about it that way,

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Speaker 1: but I think that the fact that they get resolved

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Speaker 1: is like a sign of the movie being able to

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Speaker 1: talk about how complex humans are and how we can

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Speaker 1: be shitty, shitty people and then very loving and caring

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Speaker 1: people at the same time. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah, And usually

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Speaker 1: with like those stock characters, they don't exist to be

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Speaker 1: complex they exist to advance the right narrative. For I

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Speaker 1: don't know Orlando Bloom right, who was Elizabeth Sound? Orlando

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Speaker 1: Bloom was absolutely my major crush when I was like,

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Speaker 1: and he wasn't really anything before The Lord of the Rings,

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Speaker 1: but after Yes to the Caribbean. Yeah, I found um.

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Speaker 1: When I was home this past week, I found my

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Speaker 1: old dance bag and zip in the front pocket was

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Speaker 1: a picture I had torn out of a magazine of

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Speaker 1: Legois like arching and I was like, whoa weird horny

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Speaker 1: kid thing to do? Yeah, I didn't. I don't even

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Speaker 1: remember having a crush on Orlando Bloom as Lego less,

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Speaker 1: but apparently I did. You had to. Yeah, Um, I

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Speaker 1: first saw this movie. It came on two thousan four.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I saw it right away in theaters,

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Speaker 1: but I think I saw it probably a year or

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Speaker 1: two after that. I well, this has a lot to

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Speaker 1: do with me being emotionally dead inside, but this have

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Speaker 1: you been in a long term relationship? I sure have not,

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Speaker 1: so that also might have something to do with interesting

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Speaker 1: because that's what I was thinking about this morning. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I wonder if that changes people's perception of

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Speaker 1: the movie. Yeah, Although I do think it does a

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Speaker 1: good job of representing all the intricacies of a relationship

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Speaker 1: in a way that a lot of movies don't bother too.

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Speaker 1: And that's like one of the things I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about when we get into the discussion. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I still as someone who exists in the world

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Speaker 1: and has like friendships and meaningful relationships outside of romantic questionships,

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Speaker 1: I still can understand and appreciate like all of the

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Speaker 1: intricacies that this movie delves into when it comes to

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Speaker 1: a relationship. And then Jamie to piggyback off what you

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Speaker 1: were saying, where you're like, oh, it's still nice to

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Speaker 1: be able to like a movie because we've done just

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Speaker 1: after doing podcasts for a year and a half. Now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's really Yeah the podcast basically, I when the Avy

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Speaker 1: Club wrote that sorry to keep bringing it up, but

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Speaker 1: the like over the past eighteen months and then sort

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Speaker 1: of said that we've grown as people. I was like,

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Speaker 1: that's not true. We haven't grown as plain you know,

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Speaker 1: we are even probably worse than we were before. But yep,

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Speaker 1: that's going to be like speak to yourself for that's

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Speaker 1: like Nope, but the record show I have gotten worse

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Speaker 1: and will continue to. Well, I've been wanting to bring

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Speaker 1: this up every now and then, but like I've listened

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Speaker 1: to our first probably like twelve episodes are so recently

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Speaker 1: people knew the cast, listen to them all. But also

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Speaker 1: like we've our voices have definitely grown and we've done

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Speaker 1: a lot better when it comes to like critically analyzing movies.

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Speaker 1: I watch all the movies. Now you watch them all.

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Speaker 1: That's good. Yeah, I feel like in the first few

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Speaker 1: episodes I just had like really flimsy arguments about everything,

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Speaker 1: and I think we hated women when we started the

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Speaker 1: podcast is the problem, but we like them. Wow that

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Speaker 1: you guys have grown, you haven't get worse. It actually

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Speaker 1: get start as an alright podcast and now podcast. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this movie in particular seems to be a very personal

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Speaker 1: experience for everyone who like everyone watches this movie a

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Speaker 1: slightly different way. I feel like, and if you have

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Speaker 1: a specific experience of it, feel free to last note.

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Speaker 1: But like, I'm pretty sure every time I've seen this movie,

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Speaker 1: I've been thinking about a different person. Where it's so

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Speaker 1: easy to project yourself onto these characters, which is like

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Speaker 1: what a lot of good movies and bad movies are

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Speaker 1: enable you to do. But like, yeah, like I think

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Speaker 1: I was like thinking of a different person this time

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Speaker 1: watching it than I was the last time I was

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Speaker 1: watching it, and my experience of it changed a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and like different parts hit for me in different ways,

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Speaker 1: and oh, it's just really good. It is I would say,

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Speaker 1: it holds up and it has a really good script.

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Speaker 1: I would know this as someone who does have a

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Speaker 1: master's screen screenwriting from Boston University. I don't like to

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Speaker 1: bring it up, but uh, this is this is our

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Speaker 1: first on the list of people who our listeners are

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Speaker 1: always like, what about this one? That's my impression from

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Speaker 1: I care, but it is our first Charlie Kaufman joint yeah,

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Speaker 1: that we've done and directed by Michelle Country, who is

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Speaker 1: not Spiked John, which is who I thought this movie

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Speaker 1: was directed by. Which also Michelle Gondry has a music

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Speaker 1: video that I don't know if you guys have seen it,

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Speaker 1: which is like one of my favorite music videos of

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Speaker 1: all time, and it's very similar in aesthetic to this movie.

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Speaker 1: It's the Chemical Brothers Let Forever Be. The music video

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Speaker 1: is like a dreamlike dance song and it uses in

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Speaker 1: the same way this movie does that uses like practical

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Speaker 1: effects as well as like editing tricks, and I just

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Speaker 1: see that music video and I'm like, yeah, of course

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Speaker 1: this is this is the only person who could execute

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Speaker 1: this movie properly. Yeah. The look of this movie, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and we don't get into this too much on our podcast,

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Speaker 1: but like the way this movie shot is crazy. It's

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Speaker 1: like so so so it's the most amazing. It's just

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Speaker 1: such incredible filmwork and just seeing because you're kind of

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like watching magic because they'll do like

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Speaker 1: one shots and Jim Carey will be like in one

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Speaker 1: place and then another place, where like Kate Winslett will

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Speaker 1: be a one place and then another place, but all

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Speaker 1: in the same shot. And it's because they're like diving

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Speaker 1: through holes and like getting up or like changing their

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Speaker 1: outfit and moving places and being themselves at a different

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Speaker 1: time within like a span of three seconds. And it's

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Speaker 1: so it just like it really gives you this like

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Speaker 1: very realistic, like scary movie type shock value. I was

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Speaker 1: gonna say, there's like there's a lot of imagery in

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Speaker 1: this movie that you could easily find in a horror movie,

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Speaker 1: like would not be out of place at all, Right,

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Speaker 1: And it's so interesting because it uses it's almost like

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Speaker 1: it uses like art house kind of stuff, scary film stuff,

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Speaker 1: and then drama and comedy and like Flapstick. It just

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Speaker 1: uses a large variety of genres and it just melts

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Speaker 1: them all together in such a wonderful it's also good.

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Speaker 1: It's perfect. Well, I have some notes, but before we

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Speaker 1: get um, before we get to those, shall we do

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Speaker 1: the recap? Okay? So, internal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

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Speaker 1: is about the relationship between Joel played by Jim Carey

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Speaker 1: and Clementine played by Kate Winslett. They meet, presumably on

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Speaker 1: a train, and then we cut kind of further into

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Speaker 1: their relationships, sort of as they're breaking up. And then

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Speaker 1: immediately after they've broken up, and they both decide to

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Speaker 1: get this procedure by which they erase their memories of

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Speaker 1: each other. So they basically will go through this procedure

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Speaker 1: and then they come out on either side. She gets

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Speaker 1: at first, he finds out she's getting it, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: I'll show you, and then he's like, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: win the break gap um, which, like fair have tried

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Speaker 1: to do that a bunch of times. So she erases

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Speaker 1: her memory of him first, and then he's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well I'm going to undergo this procedure now. As well

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Speaker 1: as he's undergoing it. During the procedure, he's reliving all

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Speaker 1: these memories and he decides that he actually doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to forget about her, and he decides that he's going

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Speaker 1: to try to like call it off. But this proves

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Speaker 1: to be difficult because he is unconscious and there's really

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Speaker 1: no way to do that. Mark and his underwear dancing dancing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that just feels important to mention that Mark

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Speaker 1: Ruffo is in his underwear and he does have really

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Speaker 1: nice legs. You see also a little bit of his butt,

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Speaker 1: you do. I mean, the cinematography is fine, but Mark

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Speaker 1: rufflos but really stole the show for me. But work

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Speaker 1: is incredible. I've honestly never seen better. But where but

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Speaker 1: Work you can see in a horror movie and it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be out of place exactly. It's a great But

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Speaker 1: it's a great Mark Rufflo is so handsome, it's just crazy,

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Speaker 1: like and I was like, I like I had my

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Speaker 1: teenage crush all over again. Yeah. Elijah Woods in it,

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Speaker 1: he looks like shit. Also, he's very creepy. He Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's creepy and he looks fourteen. Yeah, that's my critique.

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Speaker 1: So that all of these characters are in the movie

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Speaker 1: because they're the ones who are executing this procedure. So

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Speaker 1: like Mark Ruffalo is the head technician, Elijah Wood is there,

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Speaker 1: Kirston Dunce shows up eventually, I wasn't clear in what

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Speaker 1: her job would she like the receptionist. So Joel has

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Speaker 1: decided that he is gonna try to basically stop this

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Speaker 1: procedure from happening so that he does end up remembering Clementine.

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Speaker 1: So he's basically taking her and they're like trying to

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Speaker 1: run away from the like deletion of his memories. He

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Speaker 1: tries to like hide her in his subconscious. Basically they

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Speaker 1: try to sort of like create new memories to start

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Speaker 1: her into so that they can't find her to delete them. Um,

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Speaker 1: so they're doing all this stuff. Meanwhile, like Mark Ruffalo

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Speaker 1: and all those guys are like, WHOA, something's happening. This

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Speaker 1: isn't working, Like he's like reliving memories that were already deleted.

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Speaker 1: So they call in the doctor named Howard played by

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Speaker 1: Tom Wilkinson, one of my favorite character actors. So the

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Speaker 1: doctor shows up and Kirston Dunce is like, oh, how

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Speaker 1: are I have a crush on you? And we find

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Speaker 1: out they have a romantic history and then she forgot

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Speaker 1: that and I was like, I've forgotten that too, So

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Speaker 1: she we find out had her memories of him erased.

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Speaker 1: And then when she discovers this, she is very upset

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Speaker 1: and she decides to basically reveal to all the customers

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Speaker 1: of this mind eraser company, like basically what happened. So

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Speaker 1: the procedure for Joel ends up actually working, like all

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Speaker 1: of his memories of Clementine are erased. But they meet

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Speaker 1: again because there is a small like fragment of her

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Speaker 1: memory where she's like, meet me in Montalk, and then he,

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Speaker 1: like on a whim, decides to go to Montalk, and

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Speaker 1: then they meet on the train, which is the opening

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Speaker 1: sequence of the movie, and they're like, wait, that wasn't

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Speaker 1: them meeting for the first time. That was them re

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Speaker 1: meeting and our minds explode. But then they immediately discover

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Speaker 1: that they already had a history, that they had already

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Speaker 1: been together because they get the correspondence from Kirsten Dunce's character.

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Speaker 1: It says like, here's all the information about your partner

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Speaker 1: that you had erased, and then they decide, oh, even

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Speaker 1: though we like maybe weren't that good for each other

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Speaker 1: or we were unhappy that go around, let's try it again.

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Speaker 1: But they don't explicitly say that. Yeah, they just basically

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Speaker 1: say like, Okay, yeah, you don't know what's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: I know, And that, I think is what makes me

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Speaker 1: so sad at the end. It's just because that's like

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Speaker 1: you just don't know. It's very It's like I think

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Speaker 1: like living in that space is like like sad and terrifying,

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Speaker 1: but also like really beautiful at the same time. So

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Speaker 1: it's like obviously I'm going to cry that scene. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that scene really fun. Yeah, they're like they're like laughing

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Speaker 1: and they're like happy and excited while also being like scared.

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Speaker 1: Just a very interesting place to end it in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for sure. It's a very like non Hollywood ending, right

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Speaker 1: because Hollywood movies would be like they are definitely back

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Speaker 1: together in this time worked like this is like we

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Speaker 1: don't know and neither do you. But thankfully it's also

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Speaker 1: not like just like a sad super realistic ending, which

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Speaker 1: is like we would know they don't make it, which

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Speaker 1: I'm also happy you don't have like you would think

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Speaker 1: Charlie Coffman would be a pessimist enough to like end

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Speaker 1: it that way, be interested in like, yeah, what passed

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Speaker 1: drafts of it? Or if it's like ever at any

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Speaker 1: point and differently, I don't know, but I think that

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Speaker 1: that's like the ending is why people are so easily

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Speaker 1: able to project themselves into the movie, because it's like

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Speaker 1: you just don't yeah know, like you can watch that

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Speaker 1: movie and still be in a relationship and be like

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Speaker 1: it's us, or you can be out of relationship like

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Speaker 1: it's us. Like there's just so many different ways to

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Speaker 1: to come at it and oh it's so good, all right?

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Speaker 1: That there it is? That is it? Jamie? You mentioned

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Speaker 1: the manic Pixie dreamgirl trope, which I definitely I don't

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Speaker 1: remember Clementine's character being that, but like when I was

385
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 1: rewatching it, yeah for sure. I well, I had seen

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Speaker 1: this movie like once and then I light did enough

387
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 1: to buy it on DVD and then never rewatched it

388
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Speaker 1: until like yesterday, So I didn't remember that that was

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Speaker 1: like a component of her character. And I started watching,

390
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Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, like this the first couple

391
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Speaker 1: of scenes, You're like Oh no, it like really punches

392
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Speaker 1: you in the face with it. Can I can I

393
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Speaker 1: give the official definition of MANI I was just looking

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Speaker 1: a up. Yeah, it's a Nathan Raven great writer two

395
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Speaker 1: thousand seven. He originated the term in a review for

396
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Speaker 1: Elizabethtowns Kursten Dunns Kurston Dunz character. Uh and then the

397
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Speaker 1: world never onside. But it defines a character as a bubbly, shallow,

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Speaker 1: cinematic creature that exists solely in the fevered imaginations of

399
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Speaker 1: sensitive writer directors to teach broodingly soulful young men to

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Speaker 1: embrace life and its infinite mysteries and adventures. Basically, she's

401
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: cute and she fixes him so when school, and he

402
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 1: even directly says that towards the end of the movie

403
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: when they're in the bookstore Barnes and Noble. Yeah, they're

404
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 1: at Barnes and Noble and they're kind of just like

405
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 1: coming to except that he's not going to remember her,

406
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Speaker 1: and he's like, I even thought you were going to

407
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Speaker 1: fix me. Here I still thought you were. But she

408
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: says specifically, men all think that I'm going to fix you.

409
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Speaker 1: So he really comments on it in that scene heavily

410
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: before this term was even a thing. It's so yeah,

411
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: it's like so interesting and cool that that that the

412
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: movie does make so many comments on a term that

413
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Speaker 1: had not quite fully become a part of popular conscious

414
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Speaker 1: at least. But there's yeah, there's that line where and

415
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: she ends up saying it. I think it almost three

416
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Speaker 1: different points in the movie, because you can tell it's

417
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Speaker 1: just like a line she has in the back room,

418
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: right yeah. Or she's like, I'm not a concept. Too

419
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 1: many guys think I'm a concept or I complete them

420
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Speaker 1: or I'm going to make them alive. But I'm just

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Speaker 1: a fucked up girl looking for my own peace of

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Speaker 1: mind and I kind of hate that, but whatever, don't

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00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,719
Speaker 1: assign me yours. And then we're like yeah, screen and

424
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Speaker 1: then crashed through the ceiling. But yeah, I mean the

425
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: first thing we see Clementine in she's sort of got

426
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: that manic pixie vibe to her where she's got weird

427
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: hair and she's like, Hi, who are you? Unremarkable man,

428
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: I'm amazing, And she talks really fast and she like it,

429
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: gets very intimate with him very quickly. Yeah, and he's

430
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: clearly very uncomfortable. And then we found out later that

431
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: that's because there's something in the back of her mind

432
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: that knows him, and so there is a motivated reason

433
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: for him to go up to him that those characters

434
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: normally wouldn't have. And then we also find out all

435
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 1: this stuff about her that is like, okay, like we

436
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: we know people in our lives and like I you know,

437
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 1: like maybe even have elements of it ourselves. That the

438
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 1: manic pixie thing is like a total front to hide

439
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 1: uh issues you have, right, And so for Clementine it

440
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: comes up she like drinks too much but tries to

441
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: make it look cute. Been there she like there's like

442
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of different stuff where she's like super flaky,

443
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: she's super impulsive, but she's like it's because I'm cute,

444
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 1: and it's that's just that's me. And she's also like

445
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: clearly very loving, but also has like a temper too,

446
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 1: because it seems like she like blows up a lot

447
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: off of like little things that should maybe be talked about.

448
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: And then his character is messed up because he'll always

449
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: be like I don't want to talk about it. I

450
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about it. I don't want to

451
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: talk about it. And I see that I'm like, yes,

452
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: I'm both of those people well, and then and Joel too.

453
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 1: It's like where they are both like fundamentally good people, right,

454
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: Like they're not bad people, but there's so much that's

455
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: wrong with both of them that you're just like a,

456
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 1: it's it's normal people, where like Joel is critical of her,

457
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: and the things he's critical of are valid, but the

458
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: way he's expressing it is so annoying and biting and

459
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: like hass of aggressive. Yeah, you're like, yeah, I would

460
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 1: probably run out of that. Yeah, And it's like she's

461
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 1: it's partially because he's right, but it's mostly because he's

462
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: just like, like it makes me so clearly also has

463
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 1: like a nice guy complex about him, which again is

464
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: addressing that first scene where she's like why do you

465
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: keep saying nice? Why? And it's clear that he thinks

466
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: he's being a good guy when he's like just being

467
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: a guy. Well, That's why I'm prepared to argue that

468
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: even though she comes off, especially in those first couple

469
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: of scenes, as like the manic pixie dreamgirl type, the

470
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: thing with that trope is that that type of character,

471
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: that archetype, is often not developed any bit beyond that,

472
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: So it's just like very surface level, like yeah, but

473
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: like she presents that way at least at first, but

474
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 1: I feel like we get to know her so well

475
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: and her character so well developed that I think that

476
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: she has the persona. But then it drops like, like

477
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: I have no criticism of it that you would have

478
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: with a normal manic pixie dream girl character, because normally,

479
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: if you remove that facade from that character, there's nothing

480
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: left because that character exists to advance the male's agenda

481
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: or the you know, like if we're using elizabeth Town,

482
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: like Christian Dunst is like like I think like a

483
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: stewardess or something who's like, Hi, I'm quirky, what's your problem? Um,

484
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: let me help. I'm going to coit my job and

485
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: I have nice hair and my teeth are a little crooked. Well,

486
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: your dad died. I've got it, you know, And it's

487
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: like she doesn't exist outside of but it's like a

488
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: very one dimensional portrayal. What's so funny about the fact

489
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: that Kate Winslet's character is not a manic pixie dream

490
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: girl is that she is actually literally of the movie

491
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: in someone's dreams or memories or fantas. Yeah, so it's

492
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: interesting that, um, that's the situation that it's within. It's

493
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: interesting because it's like the element that we get to

494
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 1: know inside of her head that's not even her really

495
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: his reception of her. Yeah, but this was in the

496
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: commentary from Michelle Gondry or Charlie Kaufman, I don't remember which. Oh,

497
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: it's Michelle Gundry talking about it, because he talks about

498
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: how I think they're like kind of having an argument

499
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: over like it being essentially Jim Carrey's perspective of her,

500
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: and it's like not technically her exactly. And then Michelle

501
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: is like, oh, well, I remember when my dad died.

502
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: I would have conversations with him in my dreams and

503
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't like I was making this person up. This

504
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: was my dad. And it's like I know my dad

505
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: well enough that it can actually create a really like

506
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: vivid picture. And he was like speaking through Michelle essentially.

507
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: I thought that was a really interesting thing to say. Well. Also,

508
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: like with Joel, he in the story is generally a

509
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: pretty reliable narrator, So if he was presented as a

510
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: character in the story who wasn't as reliable, we would

511
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: maybe question his perception of Clementine a little bit more.

512
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: But because he the story depicts him as being like

513
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: the quote reliable narrator type, then I think we can

514
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: trust him enough and his perception of her enough that

515
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: what we see of her in his memory is generally

516
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: pretty true to who she is, so that that would

517
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: have bothered me if he had a very skewed perception

518
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: of her, and that even of how he was speaking

519
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: about things or something, and he always seemed like the

520
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: good guy right exactly. But he Yeah, his memories are

521
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: pretty objective in the sense that he's remembering him being

522
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: shitty as well as her being shitty, and then also

523
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: being loving and good to each other. So if it

524
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 1: had been a little bit different, we wouldn't have been

525
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: able to trust him as much, and then his perception

526
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: of her would not be reliable. I think, yeah, So

527
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: I like how the movie handles that, and I think

528
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: that just also speaks to like I was saying before,

529
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: how both of these characters are so well developed and

530
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: don't rely on this like stock one dimensional like man

531
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: pixie dreamgirl type that doesn't get developed any bit beyond

532
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: that because like so few movies that like ones that

533
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: we've talked about, even don't bother to develop their characters

534
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: well enough that we would understand why two people would

535
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: be together. So yeah, like a lot of movies that

536
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: we've talked about depict like a hetero romantic relationship in

537
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: a way that we're like, well, why do they even

538
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: like each other? Like what's compatible about them? And I

539
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: think that's usually a result of the female character being

540
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: so underdeveloped that we have no idea why they would

541
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: like each other, or why like the guy would like

542
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: her or anything like that. For example, like movies that

543
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: we've done so far in the podcast, Twilight actually kind

544
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: of Almond, Okay, don't I'm getting um love Actually, the

545
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: Princess Brod the Holiday, Uh, this happens. I feel like

546
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: in Blade Runner, The Mummy, our favorite movie, Gli a Julie,

547
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: they're perfect for each other, they're terrible. So that's a

548
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: common trend in movies. Or if a movie does take

549
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: the time to develop its female characters a little bit,

550
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: the movie will often still force the woman to end

551
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: up with a man who has either lied to her,

552
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: manipulated her, or done something else that's otherwise extremely shitty

553
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: that should be grounds for dismissal, but instead she's like,

554
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: but we're going to end up together at the end

555
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: and have a little kiss um. For example, this happens

556
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: in I Love a Little kids Um Hate the slur Um.

557
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: This happens in She's All That Ghostbusters Groundhog Day. Like

558
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: the movies will put them together at the end, even

559
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: though we as the audience don't necessarily understand why this

560
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: would be. As long as you think about it for

561
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: like two seconds, you're like, oh wait, why is she

562
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: picking him again? Like why are they end up ending

563
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: up together? Because he was very bad to her throughout

564
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: the entire course of the movie. But this movie, Eternal Sunshine,

565
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: I think does a really good job developing both characters

566
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: and exploring, like I said, the intricacies of a romantic

567
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: relationship in a way that most movies don't bother at all.

568
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: So I appreciated that about the movie. Another thing that

569
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: to me about Clem's character, and I guess like would

570
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: have about Joel if we saw him in another relationship

571
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: where something we haven't gotten into it all yet is

572
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: a little little Elijah Wood, the sneak, who is whose

573
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: character I almost totally forgot about in like the because

574
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it in maybe three years or so,

575
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: but who has. And I think this is like a

576
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: commentary of some sort on how men view women, because

577
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: that's something I think Charlie Kaufman is really good at,

578
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: Like he can write a female character, which a lot

579
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: of male screen orders absolutely cannot do. But he's but

580
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: like his like real strength is like writing about how

581
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: men view women wrongly a lot of the time. And

582
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: so like Elijah's character, Let's call him Little Patrick because

583
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: he's he's a little pot little photo and is the

584
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: precious she is the ring. Let me put it in

585
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: some terms you nerds can understand, for Rhoda wants the ring,

586
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: but the ring is does not need a man. Sorry,

587
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: Eternal Sunshine isn't like a twelve part series that's just

588
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: going to continue on. Oh god, it's just like you

589
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: need a different co host. So we're to believe that

590
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: Joel gets his procedure done the week after Clementine has

591
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: hers done, and it was all the same people basically

592
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: who did the same thing to Clem the week before,

593
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: and we don't find out the way that information is

594
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: revealed as also very well done. Of like we see

595
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: her like not recognized Joel after her memory has been wiped,

596
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: and then she says, hi Patrick, baby boy, and then

597
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: goes to kiss question Mark actually Elisha Wood because he

598
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: saw Kate Winslett unconscious and was like all in love

599
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: with her right right, which is fucked up right there.

600
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: It's crazy and it's like, oh, you know, a man

601
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: projecting whatever the funk he wants on to someone he

602
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: doesn't know while literally erasing her memory. Fucked, it's bucked,

603
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: and then steals her underwear just a good measure, steals

604
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: her underwear and then steals all the mementos that Joel

605
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: had bought for her as gifts, yeah, and just even

606
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: just mementos of their relationship, and starts stealing his history

607
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: with Clementine and essentially bringing this into his relationship with

608
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 1: Clementine basically because he thinks it will win her over. Yeah, exactly,

609
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: which in a in a different movie, that would make

610
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: her be won over by him because women aren't complex, right,

611
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,439
Speaker 1: because men be manipulating women in movies. And usually it's

612
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: okay because she'll still decide to end up with him.

613
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: But great thing about this movie is that does not happen. No,

614
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 1: And then like the whole thing you can tell feels

615
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: very off to her and then she's just like I

616
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: have to go like and it's great, but yeah, I

617
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: feel like of all the male characters and it is

618
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: mostly male characters in this movie, Patrick is like the

619
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: most obviously flawed, and it's also explained why he's that way,

620
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: which I would hope that like Little Dweeby dudes Allah,

621
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: Elijah Wood would see that and be like, oh, that

622
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: is a flawed way of thinking, because he says a

623
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: few different times to Mark Gruffalo parenthes hot guff is

624
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: like the moral like he's like the moral standard in

625
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: a way too. He comes out on top because I

626
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: forgot I forgot out if he was lying to Chris

627
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: and Dunson. At the end you're like he wasn't. Yeah,

628
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: he's a good guy now, and then I was like,

629
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,720
Speaker 1: thank god, now I feel good about right. But Elijah

630
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: Woods character like keep saying to Mark Ruffalo, He's like, well,

631
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like not really good with ladies, and

632
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: so he does that thing that like nerdy characters in

633
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: eighties movies would do, which is like, I'm not good

634
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: with ladies, so instead I have to trick one into

635
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: liking right, And we see that go horrendously wrong in

636
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: this movie, which normally we wouldn't good job movie. You

637
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: did the damn thing another thing I wanted to talk about.

638
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: And I don't know if this has any legitimacy at all,

639
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: so ready watch out for something that might be complete

640
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: and utter bullshit. But one of the scenes that I

641
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: really liked happens pretty early on. Joel and Clementine are

642
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,399
Speaker 1: in bed together. She is drinking out of a with

643
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: her own face on it. She's saying something like, you

644
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: don't tell me anything, like I share everything with you.

645
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: I want to know you. People have to share things.

646
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: That's what intimacy is, and he's just all like, well,

647
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: you just talked too much. I don't know if there's

648
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: like active commentary being made on this or not, or

649
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 1: if this is just sort of my interpretation of it,

650
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: but I feel like that scene shows a lot of

651
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 1: like the emotional labor that, especially in hetero relationships, that

652
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: women often tend to have to do and to deal

653
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 1: with because men are conditioned to repress their emotions, women

654
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: are conditioned to be more emotionally nurturing. So she's over

655
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 1: there being like, oh, like we need to talk, like

656
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: you need to tell me things and he's like, no,

657
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: I don't want to. And I feel like men tend

658
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: to perceive interactions like that is women being naggy, but

659
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: in this scene, like I'm totally on her side, where

660
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 1: I'm just like, yeah, you, like you have to share

661
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: things about yourself, like you have to be a emotionally

662
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: open and vulnerable or also relationship is ever going to work.

663
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: And he's so passive. He's I wrote it down because

664
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: I was like, and I could hear an ex boyfriend

665
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 1: of mine saying that to me, you know, constantly talking

666
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily communicating Comma Jamie period. And I was like,

667
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: that's like what he says, and you're just like, fuck you.

668
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: But it also portrays the complexity of a relationship to

669
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 1: with like what's happening verbally and like physically, because she's

670
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: like being really intimate and like kissing his cheek and

671
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: hugging him and touching him, and then he says that

672
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: really mean thing and she continues and then it like

673
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: kind of sets in and then she gets really piste

674
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: off and like turns away. But then now he's like, oh,

675
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: she's gone, and so he tries to kiss her and

676
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: hold her and like nuzzle her and she goes away.

677
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: And I think that that's a scene that really sticks

678
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: in the brain too, because it's not only what's happening

679
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: emotionally and verbally, it's like also like physics, like their

680
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: physical touch of the body language. Yeah, yeah, mimics what's

681
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: going on there? Yeah. Yeah, So that scene stuck with

682
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: me is being like, oh, like, look at all the

683
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: emotional heavy lifting that women often tend to have to

684
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 1: do in heter relationships. I don't know if that gets

685
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: like commented on that much in media and stuff like that,

686
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: because women like usually a portrayal like that in a

687
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 1: movie would be like, look, how naggy she is, right,

688
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: I think what you see over and over and it's

689
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: it's typically like the reason for their conflict and you're like,

690
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: you guys should really go to a couple of therapy.

691
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: I think you can make it work. You guys just

692
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: really needed to learn how to work through community. But

693
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: seeing like how they are in the flea market as well,

694
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: it's like she says something, he says something really shitty

695
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,919
Speaker 1: to her about like not being ready to be a mother,

696
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: and she's like, yes, I can be a mother, Like

697
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: I'm ready to be a mother, and then they have

698
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: this whole blowout and he's just like, I don't want

699
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: to talk about it. I don't want to talk about it.

700
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about it, and she's trying

701
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: to talk about it. So I think it's like a

702
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: it's definitely a pattern that keeps happening in this film,

703
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: specifically of she's trying to unpack the mean things that

704
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: he's saying to her and he's unwilling to do it,

705
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: but then that causes her to freak out because what

706
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 1: you're supposed to do. You're like, it's not being gas lit,

707
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: but it is being like shut down. You're like, you

708
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: just said something horrible to me, and now I can't

709
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: confront this thing. So then you start to feel like crazy,

710
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 1: like you're trapped inside of your own head. Right, But

711
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: we also know it's weird because this relationship is so

712
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: fascinating and like familiar feelings, Like we objectively know why

713
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 1: he's saying what he's saying, right, because she's like an

714
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: alcoholic clear, but he won't just say that, right, And

715
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: it's like, well, if you not confront but like sort

716
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: of like talk about this in a controlled setting where

717
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: you're being honest with each other, then you can address like, Okay,

718
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 1: she's got a problem. How can we fix this instead

719
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: of just being like you can't be a mother? And like,

720
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: so we know why he's saying what he's saying. It's

721
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: not again, in a lot of movies that aren't this

722
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: well thought out, it's just why is he so mean?

723
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: Like why is he saying It's like, Okay, yeah, he's

724
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: frustrated because she's an alcoholic. Yeah, he won't say anything.

725
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: And you can tell because this movie does such a

726
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: good job of like building up the subtlety of resentments.

727
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: And the reason resentments are built up is because of

728
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 1: no one's like communicating what they're feeling, and so it

729
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: comes up in like these terrible, terrible moments. And do

730
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: you think that's why maybe like as he's reliving these

731
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: memories and like sort of like reseeing how he handled them,

732
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: and maybe that's why he's like, wait, I don't want

733
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: to forget these, like I want a chance to almost

734
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: redo this. Well, I think that's what's so interesting about

735
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: this movie is because it's like it's essentially commenting on

736
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: the fact that it's like you shouldn't erase your history

737
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: because mistakes are made. Like, even if this relationship does

738
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: end and it fucking sucks and it's like the worst

739
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: you have a whole year of like torture after the

740
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: end of this relationship. It's like you learn from that,

741
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: and if you're just erasing it, you're just going to

742
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: keep reliving it over and over again. Yeah, and he's

743
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 1: clearly and I think what's so beautiful. I mean, something

744
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: I specifically love about this movie is how they comment.

745
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: I just find this to be so insanely good. Is

746
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: that they comment on what's happening in front of them

747
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 1: while also living in the moment. And have you guys

748
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 1: seen Fleabag that TV show, so you know how she

749
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: turned to the like chewing gum. They'll like turn to

750
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: the camera and talk to the camera, and that's how

751
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 1: you get their internal monologue. Whereas this film does something

752
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: I don't think I've seen in anything else ever. Also,

753
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of the TV show Unfabulous. I loved that

754
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: show at an age where I should not have loved

755
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 1: that show. It was really at It's so good though. Yeah,

756
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: but she'll like live out her fantasies and then pop

757
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: back into reality, and that happens in so many things,

758
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: but in this movie you'll see them happening simultaneously within

759
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: like the same breath or with like in like one

760
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: shot within a conversation between the two people. So seeing

761
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: someone commenting on what's happening in front of them, yeah,

762
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: like in real time, in real time is a really

763
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: insane thing to see. And it's like it's like, yeah,

764
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: and you're you're watching someone learn as you're seeing it

765
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: for the first time. It's I don't know. Yeah. The

766
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,439
Speaker 1: last thing I want to say about Clement Tank, because

767
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: we haven't even started talking about Marryott, right, is we

768
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: see that and we see this with Joel two, but

769
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: more so with Clem because we see how she acts

770
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: with sneaky little Patrick. Um is that for her the

771
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: same like most of us, the same insecurities pop up

772
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: in every relationship. And it's like sort of a variation

773
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: on a theme where there's that scene like is so

774
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: beautiful but also really breaks her heart where she's like,

775
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 1: I never felt pretty, I never felt like I was

776
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: pretty enough of the blow because an insecurity. So many

777
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: women have UM that starts when they're very young, and

778
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,720
Speaker 1: we see that scene that is like very beautiful and sweet,

779
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,919
Speaker 1: where like joels like you are a pretty well one

780
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: and gives her what she needs in that moment, and

781
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 1: then we see that same refrain repeat itself when she's

782
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: with Patrick, she calls him out of nowhere and it's like,

783
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: am I ugly? Yeah? I have certainly done, and like

784
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: like like, hold on, I just had a thought. I'm awful. Wait,

785
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: you're also caught. You're calling attention to something too that

786
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: I didn't even connect. But it's like that is a

787
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 1: core issue of Joe and her relationship, which is that

788
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: she uses her sexuality to gain attention and to make friends.

789
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: Is essentially what he says, like, she'll like dangle like

790
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: the thought of sex in front of people to like

791
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: make friends, and that is like, obviously it's a very

792
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: feminine struggle like that, Like every single woman who listens

793
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: to this is going to be like, yes, there have

794
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: been friends where a guy was my friend. I didn't

795
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: want to date them, and then they sat being my

796
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: friend and then you're like, oh, the only reason men

797
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: want to be my friend is because there's the potential

798
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: for me to kiss them but them Oh wow, pussy taga, Yes,

799
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: pussy Taga Queen but yeah, that's definitely like the being pretty,

800
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: being pretty, being fuckable. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like

801
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: that role, like feeling like you need to occupy that role. Fortunately,

802
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: like some men are able to be your friend, but

803
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: a lot of men, especially like kind of kind of aren't.

804
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: Like I've had friendships that I assumed were friendships that

805
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,879
Speaker 1: once it was like I don't know, once I made

806
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: it myself clear of like, oh no, that's not what

807
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: I'm looking for here, they sort of disappear. You're just

808
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: like or you see a girlfriend of yours who's like,

809
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: you can tell they're not being clear about a relationship

810
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: because they like this relationship hip and they're scared that

811
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: if they say something about it, that friendship, which is

812
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: such an unfair burdens and it's so many people have

813
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: to deal with exactly, And it's very cool that this

814
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,879
Speaker 1: movie is essentially is like kind of delving into that

815
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: in a very very subtle way. Yeah, it's like it's

816
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: a it's it's not even a character flaw on Clementine's part,

817
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 1: just like a very recognizable quality that's like, Okay, what

818
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: you're doing is not the right thing to be doing.

819
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: But I understand why you're doing it and it's sort

820
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: of put upon you in this very complex way. What

821
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: a GORERD character. Let's talk about Mary. Yeah, I have

822
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: a question about Mary. Actually, so something about So my

823
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: question about Mary is sorry writing is titled down because

824
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: there needs to be. Hey, Hollywood, here's my pitch for

825
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: a question about Mary. Um. Okay, we learned that she

826
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: and Howard the doctor had a romantic Howard not Howard

827
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 1: how Are the doctor whose last name I simply don't

828
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: know how to pronounce. Um okay, So honestly, I personally

829
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: feel like I'm on a first name basis with all

830
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 1: of these characters. Okay, Howard how and Howard how to kistory,

831
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 1: she chose to have all of her memories of him

832
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: a race? Okay, but so that happens, But then how

833
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: would that work? Because she works for him, he is

834
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: essentially her boss, but all the memories of him she

835
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 1: would have had to have a race, so like all

836
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: of her working knowledge would also have had to have

837
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: been raised because they work together. So basically, did she

838
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 1: have to relearn her job from scratch? I mean, I

839
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: personally think asking questions like this will break the movie

840
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: down a little bit because I also just think about,

841
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,919
Speaker 1: like the guy calls it like brain damage essentially, but

842
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 1: I do think about that. I'm like, this would never work.

843
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: There's no like, once you really start to think about

844
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: how this would work, it just can't because you're just

845
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: gonna have random gaps and you're just missing very important

846
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: pieces of but questions. You would have this memory of

847
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: working there only when he's not there, which was you

848
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: would think, would leave huge gaps in her memory of

849
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: how to do her job. Also, like other people would, Yeah,

850
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: Mark Ruffalo, he'd be like, this seems really messed up,

851
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: Like why is this? Yeah, you're I think you're very right.

852
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: I think she probably a question. Yeah, she must have

853
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: gotten everything erased and then they just had to retrain

854
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: her on her job, be like this is your first day. Meanwhile,

855
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: she's actually been there for like two years. Where I

856
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: let the movie gas light me a little bit on

857
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: that one the same because the second you find out

858
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 1: in that scene where is one of the only scenes

859
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 1: where two women appear in the same scene where Kristen

860
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:03,720
Speaker 1: Dunce is chase Howard's wife's car because she sees them together.

861
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,479
Speaker 1: She knows they've been together. We don't know that yet,

862
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: and then Mark Ruffalo leans on the horn to be like, yikes, boss,

863
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 1: get out of there. But then I'm like, oh, well,

864
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: then he would have to know. He would have to

865
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: know there's no way, no, he he must know his

866
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: wife obviously, but then he saw them kissing. But then

867
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 1: if he's worked there for so long and she's worked there,

868
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: he and Elijah Wood would have to know, like there's

869
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: no because everyone gets some letters, and who would have

870
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: done because he's the main technician. Yeah, I feel like

871
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: Howard would have been able to kind of like he

872
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 1: could get around. Yeah, I get around some of the

873
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: normal stuff. That's true. Maybe this is this a good

874
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 1: point to bring up in a SMR video? I really like,

875
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 1: is there any good point there? Excuse you? There's a

876
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 1: great a SMR Requests video. She's one of my favorite

877
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 1: A smartists. That is a role play of you getting

878
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: your brain wiped by this company. It is like one

879
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: of the coolest, one of my favorite a SMR videos ever.

880
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: It's just well done a SMR but it's called remember

881
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,399
Speaker 1: It's Okay to forget Memory eraser roleplay that has a

882
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: ton of I think the last time I watched Eternal

883
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: Sunshine was because I just watched this a SMR video.

884
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 1: She's clearly one of her favorite movies. And she wipes

885
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: your memories. You've in theory brought all these and she

886
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: has all these objects that she taps on. It's an

887
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 1: a SMR video and she's like, this is your excess

888
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: coffee mug and then she taps on it for like

889
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,479
Speaker 1: four minutes and it's a really good one. That's great. Yeah,

890
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: great theme, strong brand. I love that. Oh. I wanted

891
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: to also how you said how Mary chose to have

892
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 1: this procedure done. I do also feel like when you

893
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: finally do listen to Mary's tape, Mary listening to her

894
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: own tape, She's like, I can't do this and she

895
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: starts crying. Also a moment where I'm like, God, what

896
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: a great actress. Um Chris and Dons underappreciated. He's incredible

897
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 1: in this is great. We've yeah, wow, se Spiderman two,

898
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: Margot season three, She's a gift. But yeah, I have

899
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: found you only hear a very short snippet and she

900
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: starts kind of like being like you can't do this

901
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: and starts breaking down, and You're like, this is clearly

902
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: a coercive situation that she was like really didn't want

903
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: to actually do, but because she's younger and so in

904
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: love with this doctor, she lets it happen to herself.

905
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 1: And I find that to be like heartbreaking, lay sad,

906
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: and that's so common in that scenario where like she's

907
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: his subordinate. Yeah, it's power much older. Yeah. Yeah, and

908
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: he's doing it. I'm sure to take herself marriage, yeah, exactly,

909
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:53,280
Speaker 1: because his wife knows about this affair, and it seems

910
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: like and this is getting several layers deeper than the movie,

911
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 1: you know, has time to explain. But probably they're like, well,

912
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: here's how we'll fix it for our marriage is we'll

913
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: just have this young woman that'll help. I totally, I

914
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,720
Speaker 1: totally forgot about that large And then it's her action

915
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: that prompts the end of the movie, which is she

916
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: goes full of sage. Yeah, she's a leaker. She's a leaker.

917
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: She's a little snug. Well look out, Chris. She pulls

918
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 1: out the tampacs and elite. She's free blading information kind

919
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: of free bleeding data. Right now, there's wat me hold

920
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 1: on too. Let's not forget about free bleading. Coming back

921
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: for a second. I think so I think I misunderstood.

922
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,479
Speaker 1: She doesn't choose to have this procedure done. He kind

923
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 1: of does it. I think she I think she said, yeah,

924
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: she says yes to it, but I think it's just

925
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: a coercive Okay, I didn't pick up what it's. That's

926
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 1: what it seems like, But there's really only a snippet

927
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: where she's she's like, we agreed to it, blah blah blah,

928
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 1: and he says like, you know, we agreed to this,

929
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: and she's like, I can't. She breaks down crying, and

930
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, she doesn't really want to do this,

931
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: but he's essentially because you you have to if you

932
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 1: want to. I mean, and it might even be like

933
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: if you want to continue working here, because it sounds like,

934
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: because we find out about her, she's also, in addition

935
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,919
Speaker 1: to like having a crush on this man, she's also

936
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 1: very interested in the work they're doing. So it sounds

937
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: like she probably wanted to stay working there. It sounds

938
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: like she had greater aspirations and that the field blah

939
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: blah blah. Yeah, it's a very complicated situation when you

940
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: think about it. It's kind of like when I was

941
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: in college and and uh, handsome Dan was my supervisor

942
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: and my crush, but also I really loved public Radio,

943
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 1: but also I mostly wanted to just be around handsome Dan. Yeah.

944
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: Also it never happened. I'm so sorry, Thank you so much.

945
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: I we don't spend that much time with Mary, but

946
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: I think that she is similarly an interesting and well

947
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: developed character as Clementine. Like I said, we don't we

948
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 1: don't see as much of her, and we don't get

949
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: to know her nearly as well, But I think the

950
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: movie does take enough care with her to like to

951
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 1: just develop her beyond like a very one dimensional. Yeah.

952
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: You even see her in multiple environments where she's like

953
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: really buttoned up, and they do a really good job

954
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 1: of like very subtle. Oh my god, there's so many

955
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: like little detail things that I was picking up on

956
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 1: this last watch. But it's like there's a lot of

957
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: just very like subtle things that she does. You see

958
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: her buttoned up in the office environment, and her like

959
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 1: kind of hovering over the doctor, and like anytime he

960
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 1: touches her shoulder, she like really leans into it. And

961
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 1: then when she's hanging out with Mark Ruffalo, she's like

962
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: looks kind of like rocker chic and she's like drinking

963
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: and really hanging out and so and but then you

964
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: also like hear her like trying to develop her mind.

965
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: And she's very passionate about this work. So she loves quote. Yeah,

966
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 1: she loves quote. Such a twenty one year old girl

967
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:09,399
Speaker 1: thing to be like, I've got quotes. Tumbler, she's got

968
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 1: a tumbler. Pinterest, she's got it, she's pinning, She's totally

969
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 1: she's free blading. Yeah, her character is very interesting. The

970
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: last thing, oh, this is the last thing that it's acknowledged.

971
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: I just sort of kissed the mic a little bit

972
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: gross is the mind funk of when like Clementine was

973
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 1: sort of playing Joel's mom and then was in a

974
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: memory like a friend her mom, Mom, you still want

975
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 1: to suck me? Right? It was like just a fun

976
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 1: mommy issue moment. Yeah, she does flash her underwear, um,

977
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: which I'm not totally sure how I feel about that.

978
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: I did motivated, and but it's also like, yeah, there

979
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 1: are definitely moments like that in the film where you're like, oh,

980
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: that's a little well, there's a moment where Clementine calls

981
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 1: Joel a homophobic slur. Good not good, But also it

982
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 1: was two. Yeah, there's things have changed, one of the

983
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 1: few moments that does not hold up. Similarly, later on

984
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: in the movie, Joel is explaining to Clementine. He's telling her, oh,

985
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: I'm living with someone else, and she asks, oh, male

986
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 1: or female, and he goes female, female, Like how dare

987
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 1: you assume that I might be living and cohabitating romantically

988
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: with a man, which also doesn't hold up the classics honestly.

989
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: So here's what I think, though, is like, I think

990
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:48,280
Speaker 1: that does hold up. Not that it's like good, but

991
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: it is like that is how people. It is representative

992
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,319
Speaker 1: of the I think those people still yeah, a sort

993
00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 1: of representative of the character yea as well, where he

994
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 1: is uptight, not accepting of new things or people and

995
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,479
Speaker 1: sort of like I could ease. I mean, and it's

996
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: not explored in anyway, but it's like I could see

997
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: this guy in two thousand three being homophobic, Yeah, you know,

998
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: at least casually homeless. Yeah, yeah, not even like in

999
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: an overway. I just think I think those are things

1000
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: where it's like, those are just accurate depictions of how

1001
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: people can view the world and themselves, and that's like

1002
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: a natural reaction. Yeah, people will still to this day

1003
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 1: say the R word. But sometimes they'll comment on it

1004
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: and be like, oh my god, what I say that.

1005
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: But it's just like like you grow up in the times,

1006
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: you grow up and it's hard to let grow of

1007
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: certain things. Yeah, we all have a lot of work

1008
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: to do, and that's true. Fine lards, this movie hold

1009
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: up for me, I agree. Yeah, it's note a movie

1010
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: that necessarily you watch and you're like, wow, this movie

1011
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 1: is so empowering for women because it's not written by

1012
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: a woman. It's not direc to buy a woman. One

1013
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: of the main characters as a woman, but she's like

1014
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: the secondary character, also very white, very straight worth right,

1015
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: as most movies are. Yeah, but it is seen through

1016
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 1: the eyes of a man, and so you can't really

1017
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: it's like seen through this lens. So you're like, well,

1018
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: if it has to be empowering to women, then you're

1019
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: kind of that's not the purpose of it. Essentially, it's

1020
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: just to like help an neurotic man. Well if we're

1021
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: if yeah, I mean if that way, it's just sort

1022
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: of the Outour problem that we come up against a

1023
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: time and time again is that we can't necessarily knock

1024
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: Charlie Kaufman for plugging himself into a story or you know,

1025
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: like otors will very frequently in a way cast themselves

1026
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: as the lead, where most Charlie Coffman movies revolve around

1027
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: a middle aged ish white guy because that's what Charlie

1028
00:58:54,680 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: Kaufman is literally in the movie adaptation The Yeah, and

1029
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: these are great movies, but it's it just comes down to, like, Okay,

1030
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: that's fine, these are good movies. We can't be upset

1031
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: with Charlie Coffin for putting himself and reflecting his own

1032
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: experience as to an extent. But it just means that

1033
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: other people need to be given opportunities so that everyone

1034
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: is able to see themselves in the greater landscape. So

1035
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 1: there's also no excuse that every I think every character

1036
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: is a white person. Yeah, they're like, yeah, there's no

1037
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 1: excuse for that, but there are very few characters in

1038
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: the film. Yeah, yeah, there's mostly white guys. Anyways, shall

1039
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 1: we discuss whether or not the movie passes the Bactel tests? Yeah? So,

1040
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 1: I uh, I was curious about what you guys had

1041
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: to say because I was looking at it very closely

1042
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, there's only a kind scenes

1043
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: in which two female characters interact. One of them is

1044
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: Clementine as Mrs Hamlin Roles mom's friend. Yeah, it's confusing,

1045
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: and his mom is also there. We hardly see her

1046
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 1: on screen. We hear her voice quite a bit more

1047
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 1: than we see her, and she's like talking past Clementine,

1048
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: she's not really talking to her. Yeah. Well, there's a

1049
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 1: few moments where she's like, Oh, I'm gonna go stir

1050
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 1: with the soup and get a salad bowl. Can you

1051
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: keep an eye on jewel? So Clementine's like sure, and

1052
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 1: then she's like, he just likes to be near me.

1053
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: Later she comes back and she's talking about string beans

1054
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 1: and she's like, is he okay? Well washed them? And

1055
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 1: then later someone's talking about a cocktail. I think this movie,

1056
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: in spite of while we could argue that passes if

1057
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: I don't think it does, it's really hard to tell.

1058
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: But then so, but you wouldn't count when Kirsten Dunce's

1059
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 1: voiceover is speaking to Clementine before, does that happen? Yeah,

1060
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: it happens. It's weird. But she's in the car and

1061
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 1: she opens up the letter and hereson Dunce is like,

1062
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 1: and she's not talking about a relationship or a man.

1063
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 1: She's just not talking about man. She's talking about the

1064
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: company and what they've done and to do right by it.

1065
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 1: But then but because it's a letter, she's not like

1066
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:23,919
Speaker 1: really directly, he is not responding back right now. It's

1067
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: so crazy because I'm like, I'm like grasping a straws

1068
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 1: and I'm like that, I'm like that is this is

1069
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: the one time I'm hearing like two female voices like

1070
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 1: actually like saying staces. That's like one of them against

1071
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 1: each other. That's like unfortunate about this movie because and

1072
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: then there's a scene where Mary and Howard's wife are

1073
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: in the same scene, but they're talking about Howard. They're

1074
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: talking about but does not pass. So I want to

1075
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:52,439
Speaker 1: throw myself out a window. It makes me frustrated because

1076
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 1: there are crazy yeah, like, there are opportunities for this

1077
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 1: to happen, and it simply doesn't mm hmm. Frustrating. I

1078
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: think we could argue that the memory scene with the

1079
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 1: mom and the friend passes on a technicality, but I

1080
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 1: would say, because we're in a man's memory, I know

1081
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 1: that's what's also crazy, and everything is technically through. Yeah,

1082
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: males perspective, right, that's also not really misses Hamlin, but

1083
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 1: does that matter? And then also like the whole context

1084
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 1: of their conversation is like we have to make sure

1085
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: jewels near me because he always likes to be nearest mom.

1086
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: And they hardly have any interaction where they're we actually

1087
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: see them on screen talking and the things that they

1088
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: are talking about that arna man are as we often

1089
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: notice on the podcasting Cooking. Yeah, very domestic things. Yeah,

1090
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say as are our definition of the test evolves.

1091
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: For me, it does not pass. I would agree with that. Yeah,

1092
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: it just doesn't. It doesn't feel you could you you

1093
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 1: can make the argument, but for me, it doesn't pass.

1094
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 1: Which because there's no mean, mean, full interaction between two

1095
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: women in this movie, right, maybe that's something that we

1096
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 1: should because to figure out, like what is our definition

1097
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 1: of it, because so many horrible movies pass it on

1098
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 1: technicalities that are really frustrating. So maybe it's maybe the

1099
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 1: word meaningful is like just like a meaningful interaction between

1100
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: two women that isn't about a man, or like something

1101
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: that plot the name caveat, like the two characters have

1102
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 1: to be important enough that we would know their names.

1103
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: Is an example of like are they meaningful enough characters

1104
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: like and then yeah, I think we could add the

1105
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 1: caveat is it a meaningful conversation that is important to

1106
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:39,439
Speaker 1: the story, and like the progression of the plot, don't

1107
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: you Also, this is like totally different thing. But I

1108
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 1: just often think about male writers of that era who

1109
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 1: do really good work, but they're just going to be

1110
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 1: a nately sexist. They're not going to be creating worlds

1111
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 1: where women are the focus. It's they think of the

1112
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 1: world a male perspective and they're so eased to that.

1113
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 1: So it's I just I feel I feel like that

1114
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 1: is a hard place to You're you're rarely going to

1115
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: see someone breaking out of that. Still a lot of

1116
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 1: work to be done. Let's write the movie on ourn't

1117
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 1: nipple scale zero to five nipples based on its portrayal

1118
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 1: of women. I'm going to give it. This was a

1119
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 1: tricky one because while Clementine is a very well developed character,

1120
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 1: although it is through the lens of like how Joel

1121
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 1: sees her in his memory, so it's already kind of

1122
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 1: like skewed a little bit. She is the one who

1123
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 1: comes up with the idea to be like, hey, what

1124
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: if you hide me in your other memories or like

1125
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 1: hide me in your subconscious and it's like, wow, that's

1126
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: a really great idea. It's her idea, So that's cool

1127
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 1: that at least she has given something like that. But yet,

1128
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 1: despite her being well developed, I think it's going to

1129
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 1: get like a three a half from me. Is that

1130
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 1: too high? Is that too low? Because yeah, she's well developed.

1131
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: But I don't watch this and think like, wow, how

1132
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: I feel so empowered as a woman, or like I

1133
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 1: do think it's a good example of a depiction of

1134
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 1: a hetero relationship that is very white and very straight

1135
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 1: in the sense that she is well developed enough that

1136
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 1: we at least understand why these two characters like each other.

1137
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: But I think it holds up. I think it's a

1138
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 1: good script. I think it's a good story. Yeah, I

1139
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 1: don't know. Three point five nipples is just what's are

1140
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 1: you giving your nips too? I'm giving my nips to

1141
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 1: to to Clementine, one to Mary, and then a half

1142
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 1: nipple to m Carrie, who we do not talk about

1143
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 1: at all, but she is. She's friends with Joel, like

1144
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 1: she's in a relationship they would cross. Exhausted, She's exhausted

1145
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 1: and yeah, half nipple for her, just because we didn't

1146
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 1: get to talk about her. I'm going to give it four.

1147
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 1: I'll docket one for the inclusion stuff that we talked

1148
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 1: about that there are certainly in a movie that takes

1149
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 1: place in New York. Again, it's just like, oh, the

1150
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:12,919
Speaker 1: whitest New York you've ever seen, like the New York

1151
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: only existing movies and for the few two thousand and

1152
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 1: four elements it has um. And also just like because

1153
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 1: the ratio of significant female characters versus significant male characters,

1154
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's like I can think of four

1155
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 1: very significant men two women. Yeah, you've got Clementine and Mary,

1156
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 1: and you've got Howard Patrick, Mark Rufflo, whose name I

1157
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 1: truly do not know, but only because I'm in love

1158
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 1: with him as Mark Rufflo and Joel So so the

1159
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 1: ratio bad, but I mean, I think that the way like,

1160
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily looking to feel empowered as a woman

1161
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:54,959
Speaker 1: watching this movie. I'm just but this movie makes me

1162
01:06:55,200 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 1: feel seen in ways that I wouldn't feel most times

1163
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 1: watching a movie. And is it partially because I'm a

1164
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 1: white head old lady. Sure, but for this movie, it's

1165
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: like I can connect with it so much, and I

1166
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 1: do feel seen by it, and I want that for everyone.

1167
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 1: You know, everyone should have a movie they can watch

1168
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 1: and feel seen. But I just I think Clementine is

1169
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 1: such an interesting character who is very like layered and

1170
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 1: everything we've discussed basically um, but it's cool to see

1171
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: that trope commented upon in such an overt way, broken

1172
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 1: down to the point where it's like, yes, some women

1173
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 1: do act like this, but it is a mask for

1174
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 1: something else, and it's a mask you come by honestly,

1175
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 1: because it's sort of like put upon you, as like, okay,

1176
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 1: well here is a way I can act in order

1177
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 1: to seem more pleasing to the male case anyways, for

1178
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 1: from me two to Climb two to Mark Ruffalo four nips, okay,

1179
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:00,160
Speaker 1: what do you? What say you? I would give it

1180
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 1: also for nipples. It's pretty much for very similar reasons.

1181
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 1: I think that although Clementine is simultaneously is like a

1182
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 1: very flawed character, I think she's portrayed very accurately. You

1183
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 1: see her in like many different ways. And as a

1184
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 1: woman viewing this film, I often see films or television

1185
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 1: and I feel like women are like misunderstood, misrepresented or

1186
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 1: treated like objects or disrespectfully and it doesn't really feel

1187
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 1: like that is the female purpose in this movie, which

1188
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 1: is really nice. Um, And like Jamie said, it makes

1189
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 1: as a woman, makes me feel like heard and paid

1190
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: attention to and cared for. And yeah, also like Kirsten

1191
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 1: Dunn's character and the wife's character and David Cross's wife,

1192
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 1: that character Carrie, all those people, you see them struggling,

1193
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 1: which I think is a really nice thing to see

1194
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: because instead of struggling, oftentimes you see women being like

1195
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: a pain in the ass. And to see women's struggle

1196
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:14,400
Speaker 1: is that is something that makes you feel like you're

1197
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:17,519
Speaker 1: coming from a place of understanding. And also they're all

1198
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 1: just like so fucking hot. They're also hot, Oh god,

1199
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 1: everyone is very except for Elijah Wood, who I will

1200
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:29,639
Speaker 1: say again looks like ship in this movie looks and

1201
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 1: and also his characters terrible. So I don't feel that's Yeah,

1202
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 1: so I'll give one nipple to each woman. Yea, Kate,

1203
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:41,719
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here in town. Yeah,

1204
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,799
Speaker 1: where can we find you on social medes? Wow? Um,

1205
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 1: you can follow at Good Good Comedy. That's on Twitter,

1206
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:53,600
Speaker 1: on Instagram, on Facebook, and then me personally, I'm I

1207
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 1: don't really use social media that much. But my name

1208
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 1: is Kate Banford, so just you know at Kate band

1209
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 1: and Kate Banford and if you're in if you're ever

1210
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 1: in Philly A good yeah, the best, it's the best.

1211
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 1: It's wonderful. We try to be very representative as well.

1212
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 1: You do a great job. You can follow the betel

1213
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:16,799
Speaker 1: Cast on social media. You can give us five dollars

1214
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 1: a month or more just to say just because, but

1215
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:24,599
Speaker 1: also on our Matreon because that will enable you to

1216
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:28,840
Speaker 1: get to bonus episodes of the Packetel Cast every single month.

1217
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:33,799
Speaker 1: You can also buy our merch online. Other than that, Jamie,

1218
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: I just want you to know that I will never

1219
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 1: erase any memories of you. I'll never erase you either.

1220
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:44,480
Speaker 1: Oh my God, love you, Love you alright. Bye,