1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 2 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 2: Hi everyone, welcome to the deal. 3 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 3: I'm Jason Kelly alongside of my partner Alex Rodriguez. All right, Alex, 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 3: we're going to get to a really interesting interview in 5 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 3: just a second with sport Radar founder and CEO Carston 6 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 3: curl So. Sports Radar it's a huge information provider in 7 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 3: the world of sports betting. They work with all the 8 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 3: major sports leagues and betting platforms to make data analytics 9 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 3: much more accessible. 10 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 2: But before we get to that, I guess you. 11 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 3: Want to know why I'm in yet another nameless, faceless 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 3: hotel room. I'm actually in Dallas, and you're not going 13 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 3: to believe who I got to sit down with. I'm 14 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 3: so excited for you to hear this interview when it 15 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 3: comes out in a couple of weeks. The Hunt Brothers, Wow, 16 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 3: Ark Hunt, Dan Hunt arguably one of the most influential 17 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 3: families in the history of American sports. I think you 18 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 3: would agree, not American sports, global sports. I mean they 19 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 3: are the north Star. I mean they really are admired 20 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 3: and respected by all. 21 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 22 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 3: So it was fascinating because what we realized was this 23 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 3: was the founding family really one of the founding families 24 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: of the NFL, and by the way, the MLS too. 25 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 3: I mean this was you know, American soccer didn't really 26 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 3: exist until they and your friends, the Crafts, really got 27 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 3: involved in it have really propelled it forward. Now soccer 28 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 3: is headed for this huge moment in the United States 29 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty six, between Kansas City and Dallas alone, 30 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 3: they're going to host sixteen games. Nine of them are 31 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 3: going to be here in Dallas at AT and T 32 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 3: Stadium is obviously going to be the centerpiece of all that. 33 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 3: The other amazing thing that we talk about in this interview, 34 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 3: which will come as a surprise to you, Taylor Swifts. Oh, 35 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 3: Taylor Swift had a tremendous impact on the Kansas City 36 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: Chiefs FANDI. Yes, winning back to back Super Bowls was big, 37 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 3: but really the biggest thing that happened in terms of 38 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 3: you know, we talked about the zeitgeist all the time, 39 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 3: was Taylor Swift and Travis Kelcey starting to date. And 40 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 3: I'd tell you Clark Hunt and Dan Hunt both told 41 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 3: incredible stories about the impact that I was going to 42 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 3: have so excited for you to hear about that. We've 43 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 3: got a story that we're gonna rune on the Bloomberg. 44 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 3: We recorded a TV interview as well. My partner in 45 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 3: that case was Julie Fine, the Text Spirit chief. So 46 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 3: we've got a lot of cool stuff coming up. 47 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: There, Jays. 48 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 4: Let me add one thing to that, because, first of all, 49 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 4: I'm so excited to see this interview. I've admired the 50 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 4: Hunts for a very very long time. What they keep 51 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 4: doing over the last many decades is just keep setting 52 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 4: the bar higher and higher. 53 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: And I got one quick story. 54 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 4: I recently was at a convention where Roger Goodell spoke 55 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 4: and on that day the baseball schedule had come out 56 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 4: in Major League Baseball for twenty twenty five, and ironically, 57 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 4: they asked them, how do you think about the network? 58 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 4: How do you think about went to position games for 59 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 4: better ratings? And he said, we wait to the very 60 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 4: last minute. And this was interesting because it ties into 61 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 4: the Hunt family in Kansas City Chiefs. They said, Kansas 62 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 4: City did huge numbers. Obviously they're a great team. Homes Kelsey, 63 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 4: but Taylor Swift, her name come up again and one 64 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 4: of the things they said is they're looking at her 65 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 4: global schedule to see when they can schedule the NFL 66 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 4: games to make sure that she is there, and I'm 67 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 4: just like, this is incredible. The NFL waits for her 68 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 4: global concert to go out so they can set their 69 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 4: games so hopefully she's there and the numbers can go up. 70 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: That's unbelievable. 71 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 3: I mean, and to that point, the audience expansion that 72 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 3: she brought to the Chiefs and to the league. I mean, 73 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 3: they're figuring out the best ways to measure it. But anecdotally, 74 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 3: one of the things Clark Hunt told us was he 75 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 3: just had people coming up to him saying, my ten 76 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 3: or twelve year old daughter wants me to tell her 77 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 3: every single time the Kansas City Chiefs are on TV 78 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 3: because she's gonna watch. 79 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: That is amazing. 80 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: That's it. 81 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 3: It's a literal game changer. When we think about game changers, 82 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 3: watch what I'm gonna do here. Sports betting has obviously 83 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 3: radically changed the landscape. 84 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: There's a BusinessWeek. 85 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 3: Cover story that is out now and it is all 86 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 3: about the world of sports betting. I got the opportunity 87 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 3: to head down to South Florida. You were away so 88 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: we couldn't hang out, and I was up the road 89 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 3: in Fort Lauderdale. I met up with several current and 90 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 3: former Dolphins who talked about from the player's perspective, what 91 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 3: this huge increase in legalized betting has meant for them 92 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 3: both as players and also, I think importantly, and something 93 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 3: you can understand far better than I what it means 94 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 3: to be the product that's being bet on and sort 95 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 3: of the implications of all of that. Obviously, fantasy has 96 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 3: been a huge driver of both interests revenue. So it 97 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 3: is a world that I'm not sure any of us 98 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 3: could have imagined when we were kids because betting was 99 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 3: not legal, and now it is and it is a 100 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 3: booming business. So Carlston Girl is a fascinating guy. I mean, 101 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 3: this is an entrepreneur's entrepreneur. And one of the things 102 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 3: I loved about this interview that we're about to play is, 103 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 3: you guys, we are sort of like swapping notes on 104 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 3: what does it take to you know, really have that 105 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 3: have that right stuff right. 106 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 4: First of all, the way he talks about some of 107 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 4: his investors, I mean, he has a wild story or 108 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 4: two about Michael Jordan, Mark Cuban, tet Leonses and is 109 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 4: wild how these deals came together. And he's going to 110 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,239 Speaker 4: share something about the day they went ipo. He takes 111 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 4: us behind the scenes with Michael Jordan and I'm not 112 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 4: going to spoil it and those spoiler alerts here and 113 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 4: just the whole space. I mean, you gotta understand my 114 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 4: first love, Jason's baseball, right, and when you talked about 115 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 4: gambling anything with the word gambling, gaming or on base 116 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 4: for or sports, it was a pariah. It's amazing the 117 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 4: paradigm shift, the radical change where now we're getting leagues involved, 118 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 4: we're getting players involved, we're getting owners. It's just fascinating, 119 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 4: and I think he does a beautiful job of explaining 120 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 4: a lot of it. 121 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 2: All right. 122 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 3: Coming up next on the deal, our interview with Carlston Curl, 123 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 3: the founder and CEO of sport Radar. All right, so 124 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 3: now we're going to bring in Carston Curl. He's the 125 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 3: CEO and the founder of sport Radar. Carson, we are 126 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 3: so happy to have you here to talk to us 127 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 3: all about data sports vetting. It's something that the numbers. 128 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 3: This is what we love on this show. Alex and 129 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 3: I talk about it all the time. I want to 130 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 3: start by asking you, like, when you get to meet 131 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 3: somebody at a cocktail party or at dinner party, and 132 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 3: they say what do you do? 133 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 2: What does sport Radar do? 134 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 5: What do you say, Well, we are collecting sport information, 135 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 5: we are prosing it, aggregating it, we are selling it 136 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 5: to thousand media clients and eight hundred sports betting operators 137 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 5: in one hundred and eleven countries. At the moment, we 138 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 5: have offices in thirty four of those countries and we 139 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 5: have round about four thousand and five hundred employees sitting 140 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 5: in those offices. 141 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:17,559 Speaker 2: Wow. 142 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 3: So where does that idea come from? I believe before 143 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 3: sport Radar, you started off in the sports betting world 144 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 3: in the nineties with a company called b Win. Then 145 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 3: you sold that company and started sport Radar back in 146 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 3: the early two thousands. 147 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: So walk us through what happened. 148 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 5: Okay, it's a long story, but if I'm looking back, So, 149 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 5: it was a long night in Switzerland, in a small city, 150 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 5: and I was sitting with a friend and I think 151 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 5: at two or three o'clock in the morning, we came 152 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 5: to a conclusion. I love sport, I love technology, so 153 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 5: what can I do to really bring those two things together? 154 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 5: And the answer was, let's develop a platform for sports 155 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 5: betting in the Internet. Now, that was nineteen ninety six, 156 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 5: and whenever I'm telling the story, I'm feeling damn old. 157 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 5: This is something where that took us three years. I 158 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 5: programmed that platform together with the colleagues, and then I 159 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 5: wanted to sell it and went to England to the 160 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 5: big book makers, Labbroks Hills Chorus, you name it, and 161 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 5: that I have a fantastic thing. It's a sports batting 162 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 5: platform which is doing sports betting over the Internet. And 163 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 5: the CEO said to me, well, you sound very passionate 164 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 5: about this and it looks pretty cool, but you know what, 165 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 5: we are not so sure if the internet is a 166 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,719 Speaker 5: sustainable channel. And now, okay, that's the trouble. So I 167 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 5: gotta take this. I believe in it. I operate this 168 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 5: sports betting platform myself. I went to Austria, I took 169 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 5: a license that was one of the few countries which 170 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 5: can do it. To cut a long story short, the IPO, 171 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 5: the business. It was the most successful IPO I think 172 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 5: in the Austrian market. Still today. We have been oversigned 173 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 5: close to two hundred times. But it's a small market 174 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 5: there and I, as a very young entrepreneur, got a 175 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 5: lot of money, but I lost the control of my 176 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 5: business and losing the control of the business and having 177 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 5: people telling you what you should do is difficult for 178 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 5: an entrepreneur. So I decided to do something new and 179 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 5: I founded sport Rada. So I knew that there was 180 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 5: a demand on data. I knew that this is international. 181 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 5: It's not so easy to have team names in fifty 182 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 5: different languages, including Hindi and Mandarin and whatsoever, in a 183 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 5: correct spelling. Even these basic things. There was a need 184 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 5: for it, and there was a need how you transmit 185 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 5: this and how you're making a market transparent by somehow 186 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 5: crawling that informations together and comparing it. That was the 187 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 5: origin of sport Rada. We started with four clients. I 188 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 5: invested I think one hundred and fifty thousand viewers at 189 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 5: this time. Since then I never invested, and now the 190 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 5: business is worth yeah, a bit more than three billion, 191 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 5: and I still the major shareholder and the biggest shareholder 192 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 5: in there. So that is the story in a nutshell. 193 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 4: Amazing, amazing, and congrats, I mean it's that was an 194 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 4: amazing journey. I guess my question is how quickly did 195 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 4: you identify with the TAM the addressable market is on 196 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 4: a business like this. 197 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 5: As an entrepreneur, you love what you're doing. I love 198 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 5: sport and I love technology. At this time, very honestly, 199 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 5: I was not interested in whatever TAM. I simply had 200 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 5: a passion to say, Wow, what I can do is 201 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 5: I can work with the sport which I love, and 202 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 5: I can work in a fast growing global market where 203 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 5: I know it's a market with the sharpest brains on 204 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 5: the planet. Because it's a regulated industry, you need to 205 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 5: be very quick, you need to react very quick, and 206 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 5: it's a global competition. And that was driving me saying 207 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 5: it's an excitement and it's a pleasure to work there. 208 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 5: And I think in the first years we simple progressed 209 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 5: in this perspective. It was a startup business without looking 210 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 5: too much on the TAMS. Because I financed it by myself. 211 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 5: I didn't need any kind of investors in there. And 212 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 5: I still recall after four or five years, we had 213 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 5: the first management meeting on a big, big whiteboard moderated 214 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 5: by a friend of mine and one of my colleagues 215 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 5: draw on that whiteboard versus three meters to four meters high, 216 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 5: so really big, draw a number in saying how target 217 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 5: is eighty million revenue. That was in the year number five, 218 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 5: probably year two thousand and five, two thousand and six. 219 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 5: Today our revenue is more than one point one billion, 220 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 5: and for the eighty million revenue target, we didn't believe 221 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 5: that we ever get there, because we have probably at 222 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 5: this time fifteen or seventeen million yearly revenue from that market. 223 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 5: That shows you we grew with this market. The industry 224 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 5: by itself had a tremendous growth that was accelerated, of 225 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 5: course by the Internet, and all the things which you 226 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 5: saw then coming live got more and more appealing. The 227 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 5: live coverage is much more important that things which I 228 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 5: see now in the US I see in the early 229 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 5: days of sports betting. Here it's the same kind of 230 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,359 Speaker 5: learning curve which I saw in Europe. So you realize 231 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 5: that betting while the match is running is so more repeating, 232 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 5: so it's so much more engaging. You have all these emotions, 233 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 5: you have all those things which you see and then 234 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 5: you place your bet on this. So it's the thing 235 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 5: which was driving this industry and worldwide, I would say 236 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 5: it's the same phenomen around the globe. You see a 237 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 5: constant development. Now you see more development into player information. 238 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 5: I'm a big believer that the players are making the game. 239 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 5: Even if some of the teams are seeing this different 240 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 5: the players is really where the people follow, the fans 241 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 5: are with them getting more information about the players, putting 242 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 5: betting prepositions out there, using AI, using computer vision to 243 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 5: put that in a correlation is fairly complex. But this 244 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 5: is so engaging. And if you make a complex story simple, 245 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 5: that's where we are heading. If you hyper personalize this, 246 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 5: you have all the ingredients is for the future sports consumption. 247 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 5: We are sitting on the crossroad here, and I see 248 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 5: sports betting more as a technology enabler for all these 249 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 5: adjacent markets. 250 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 3: But I want to get back to one of the 251 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 3: very core elements of this is and honestly, you know, Alex, 252 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 3: this is very reminiscent oddly enough of Bloomberg. Candidly, you know, 253 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 3: in terms of like creating a place where the data. 254 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 2: Are all sort of collected. 255 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 3: I want to ask you a very basic question, Carson, 256 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 3: which is, how do you get all this data together? 257 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 3: Where is it living that you're able to collect it? 258 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 3: And how do you do that? 259 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm sitting here in Bloomberg, and we had a time, Jason, 260 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 5: where we called ourselves to Bloomberg of sport to cut 261 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 5: it short, and it's an information transmission to a highly 262 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 5: classified and qualified audience. In all case the sports betting operators, 263 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 5: and on the beginning that was crawlers, and if those 264 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 5: crowdits are extracting information from the Internet, you begin to 265 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 5: validate this. We very quickly came to the conclusion that 266 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 5: we're going to need to have a highly specialized sport 267 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 5: agency to really validate the information to be right with 268 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 5: the information. It sounds easy, but it's not so easy. 269 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 5: If you have a tennis tournament, you get the order 270 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 5: of play in the morning from the organizer, and then 271 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 5: sometimes the matches are quicker, sometimes not. Sometimes matches are 272 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 5: starting quicker than scheduled, so you're going to need to 273 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 5: validate this information. Nowadays, it's fast video access. It is 274 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 5: coverage on the ground. We operate a network of twelve 275 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 5: thousand sports journalists around the globe. They're going live into 276 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 5: the arenas reporting with our application and we cover the data. 277 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 5: We do this, by the way, for the NBA, we 278 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 5: do that for UEFA, and we are quite sophisticated on this. 279 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 5: The better thing is you have this data production in 280 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 5: a controlled environment, so you have fast video feits and 281 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 5: that goes into one of our operation offices. We have 282 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 5: four of them. Imagine them as a kind of call 283 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 5: center for monitors on one table and they we have 284 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 5: a fast video feed in there, and we have a 285 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 5: situation of four people are operating one match or one 286 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 5: to one situation. In American sports, it's usually one to 287 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 5: four because you're going on very detailed data to pick 288 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 5: and roll and all those kind of things. Five years 289 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 5: ago that started to get into a computer vision. And 290 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 5: with computer vision, you extract the player, and you extract 291 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 5: the ball, and you extract the information from the referee. 292 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 5: It's only a question do you have the camera angle 293 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 5: that you can do all those things. But what it 294 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 5: is doing is it is more accurate than a human being, 295 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 5: and it's faster than a human being, and it gives 296 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 5: you so much more data points. For tennis, I know 297 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 5: now the reaction when the ball is leaving the record 298 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 5: from the other side, from the other player, how quickly 299 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 5: is the knee reacting into this direction? Is it less 300 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 5: than twenty milliseconds while the player is in a good 301 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 5: shape physically and mentally in the match. We can aggregate 302 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 5: this over the match, and we can use it for 303 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 5: predictive models. So this is possible with technologies and we 304 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 5: don't need human beings anymore for this. A trouble still 305 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 5: is team sports. There is much more complex to applied 306 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 5: computer vision. But I'm pretty positive that we will see 307 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 5: the same development like we saw in record sport in 308 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 5: player sport with the team sports, and that gives a 309 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 5: lot of additional applications. 310 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 4: So Carston, obviously you love sports, you love technology, and 311 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 4: you're really good at raising capital. Walk us through how 312 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 4: difficult it is or how much fun it is to 313 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 4: go out and get a guy like Michael Jordan or 314 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 4: Mark Cuban and others to invest into your platform. Is 315 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 4: it more difficult than if you were going to a 316 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 4: private family office versus a celebrity or former icon athlete. 317 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 5: So I think it doesn't matter do you go to 318 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 5: a family office or do you go to private equity 319 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 5: or a venture capital or do you go to one 320 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 5: of the woodraw rich people which are interested in that sector. 321 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 5: The thing which really counts is are you convincing when 322 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 5: you doing the pitch? Can you show that the level 323 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 5: of engagement but the knowledge there and can you tell 324 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 5: a consistent story the numbers of course must fit together, 325 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 5: but you must be convincing. Now. For me, it was 326 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 5: never really raising money when I went into private equity. 327 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 5: I had to go into private equity with sport Rada 328 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 5: because I had two founding partners, two Norwegians, and you know, 329 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 5: in every meeting they said, hey, Carson, you know how 330 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 5: those things are going. You're going to do it. And 331 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 5: I said, we have now four hundred people, and I 332 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 5: want you to challenge me, and I want you to 333 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 5: help me to give us structure because doing the decisions 334 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 5: only alone is quite a risk in such a growing 335 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 5: and hypergrowth environment. And I found a partner with Venture 336 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 5: Capital who had an approach which I liked and saying 337 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 5: we can help you with this structure and we can 338 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 5: help you with experts from outside. It was not so 339 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 5: much the money. How I do business is I try 340 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 5: to learn very fast. I try to make smaller steps. 341 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 5: I'm not the guy who is saying I need a 342 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 5: hundred million. Leave me alone for two years and then 343 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 5: I will tell you what I made out of it. 344 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 5: So for me, it's more I'm testing things if I 345 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 5: see that it's successful, and the measurement of success is 346 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 5: money hits your bank account. That's the only measurement. Success 347 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 5: is really very simple. A client is paying for a service. 348 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 5: If that hits your bank account, it's successful. If that 349 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 5: success is there, I'm ready to go double and triple 350 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 5: and all in because I see I have a learning 351 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 5: and I see there's a value for me. Was always 352 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 5: incremental steps and is always incremental steps. It is a 353 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 5: slower story to grow the business you have, not that 354 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 5: big bang, but it's for me the much better thing 355 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 5: because I have a control and I understand what I'm 356 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 5: doing and what we are doing is needed in the market. 357 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 5: There is a buyer that doesn't stop innovation, but you 358 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 5: get the feedback of saying is there a value in? 359 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 5: And the value is defined by a client is paying 360 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 5: you for this. 361 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 4: One of the things we try to do in this 362 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 4: podcast is really educate and share our stories that are 363 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 4: really important as an entrepreneur. And it's not as sexy 364 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 4: as people think it is. I think young entrepreneurs overestimate 365 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 4: what they can do in the short term and highly 366 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 4: underestimate what they can do in the long term. And 367 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 4: you see here a perfect example of really long term thinking. 368 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 4: Much like Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger. 369 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I guess one of the things that I'm 370 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 3: so interested in, Carson, is this idea of you've been 371 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 3: able to become an official partner of just about every 372 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 3: major league across the world. What do they see as 373 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 3: the business opportunity here, like help us understand the ecosystem 374 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 3: that you're building in sort of who has what stake 375 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 3: in it? 376 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 5: It's innovation. It's brutally looking for innovation. How can I 377 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 5: be better that I'm attractive in the global mark it 378 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 5: for the digital sport fan. How can I get my 379 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 5: product into the market that it's appealing for them? And 380 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 5: the digital sports fan they want a different consumption. Probably 381 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 5: you're me. We are looking to the big screen sometimes 382 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 5: looking for a match, cheering and being fully engaged during this. 383 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 5: If I look to the audience in Korea, for example, 384 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 5: in a generation set that's minimum seven matches which they'll 385 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 5: follow parallel, and they want to have the overlay data 386 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 5: in and they want you to know what player is 387 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 5: interesting and for which player they want to have some 388 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 5: additional information. They maybe want to have predictive games, or 389 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 5: they want to have some merchandising, and they want you 390 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 5: to understand this. That's a topic where you need to 391 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 5: use technology, and if I'm looking now to the MBA, 392 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 5: they are an excellent partner for us. Seem like Major 393 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 5: League Baseball. We get tracking data from the match. We 394 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 5: have the skeleton data of every MBA match, and we 395 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 5: have that in real time, so we could make a 396 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 5: funny thing out of it. Put the phase of ad 397 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 5: on the body of Lebron James and put the parameters 398 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 5: in there, or put my face in there to personalize this. 399 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 5: But the whole thing is going in real time and 400 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 5: it is then viewed in the way like you know, 401 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 5: I want to view the match. This is an understanding 402 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 5: of the sport van marrying it with deep sport data 403 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 5: to drive the product of the future. And for the 404 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 5: smaller ones, the story is more airtime. It's really building awareness. 405 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 5: A thing like pickleball is something which is really picking up. 406 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 5: It's played by so many people and it's such a 407 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 5: fun sport. And of course we can transport this sport 408 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 5: from the world of batting into a broader audience and 409 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 5: then get all the statistics behind it, the coverage and 410 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 5: all those things. The roles that we can organize the 411 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 5: tournaments and help them to do this So every sport, 412 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 5: I would say, has different characteristics at the end, its 413 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 5: usage of technology and achieving the aim for. 414 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 3: The So one of the things that you know comes 415 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 3: up in any story or any conversation about sports betting 416 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 3: is the integrity of the game. And my understanding is 417 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 3: that you guys have a lot of people devoted to this. 418 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 3: You have players who could be tempted by what's effectively 419 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 3: insider trading, you know, tipping off who's healthy, who's unhealthy, 420 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 3: who's playing well, who's not playing well, et cetera. There's 421 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 3: the social impact of betting. How do you think about 422 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 3: that philosophically? How do you guys tackle those issues? 423 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 5: There is no sport without integrity. If you know the 424 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 5: outcome of the match, that's killing the sport. So this 425 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 5: is aligning us and it is very bad for our 426 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 5: business model. Frankly speaking, if people know the outcome of 427 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 5: a match, you don't bet on it. So integrity of 428 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 5: the game is is there somebody who knows the outcome 429 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 5: of the match or has more knowledge about this can 430 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 5: be a player, can be somebody bribing the players in 431 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 5: most of the cases in this way, and the player 432 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 5: has a lot of opportunities so no show is something 433 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 5: of the things which is very hard to spot. In 434 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 5: a tense of a second, you don't do what you 435 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 5: can do. So this is something very early when we 436 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 5: had been probably in year number three to four of 437 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 5: our business, we had an accident with a German referee 438 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 5: who manipulated football soccer matches. The guy was doing it 439 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 5: in a way that in overtime we knew there must 440 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 5: be a three goals difference. He gave three penates in 441 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 5: the last three minutes of a ninety minute match. That 442 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 5: was a very obvious thing to detect, and from there 443 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 5: we began to develop those algorithms. Now we are seeing 444 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 5: the whole market. We are seeing all line movements and 445 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 5: there is always money involved behind them. With the algorithms 446 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 5: which we have by ourselves to predict match outcomes, and 447 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 5: if we see spread and differences, that gets into an 448 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 5: AI exercise in a very sophisticated system. Now this system 449 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 5: is used by the European Court of Justice, it's used 450 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 5: by COSS, which is the sport court in Lausanne, as 451 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 5: an evidence that there is something going on with this. 452 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 5: We never can say it's so much money which is 453 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,719 Speaker 5: played here. But the thing while we do it, and 454 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 5: it's not a profit unit for us. You went on 455 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 5: a second topic and saying responsible gaming super important. We 456 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 5: work only in regulated markets. That's the only way how 457 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 5: you can grow a business. And I think here the 458 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 5: state and the regulator has an obligation to protect the people. 459 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 5: That's the highest good. So I'm going to have to 460 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 5: protect the people for getting gaming addicted. I'm going to 461 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 5: have to monitor those patterns, and I have to build 462 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 5: a framework for this, and they have to monitor this. 463 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 5: We believe we can do this very well, and we 464 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,719 Speaker 5: developed the system for this. So far we have managed 465 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 5: to sell the system. I'm totally sure in two, three, 466 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 5: four years you will see a big pickup because there 467 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 5: is a huge need. And the third one where I 468 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 5: think that's needed, and that's for regulators, is taxes. The 469 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 5: reason why sports betting is so popular around the globe 470 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 5: is it's generated taxes, and those taxes can be used 471 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 5: for sport, can be used for developing something in the public, 472 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,959 Speaker 5: which is good for the people. You're going to need 473 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 5: to monitor this in a much better way than it's 474 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 5: done at the moment. Putting that all together, you might 475 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 5: say that the regulatory service framework, which in every betting 476 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 5: environment in one or the other way. 477 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: You need to have, Kirton, I have one quick one. 478 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 4: I know that you mentioned IPO in twenty twenty one 479 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 4: and being one of the most successful ones. Have you 480 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 4: ever thought about taking a private again and maybe pros 481 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 4: and cons private versus public. 482 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 5: First for the IPO that was one of the moments 483 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 5: in your life. And I've been standing there short after 484 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 5: COVID with Michael Jordan and a short story. Hopefully he's 485 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 5: not listening to this podcast, but he said to me 486 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 5: in the morning, it is a cursten today. I'm your 487 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 5: cheerleader and I only smiled. You know that would be 488 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 5: pretty funny if you are my cheerleader. And then we 489 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 5: had to click on the buzzer and they simulate this, 490 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 5: of course, but you're counting down from ten to one. 491 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 5: And when we had been on three, I looked on 492 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 5: him and saying, I'm faster than you, and he smiled. 493 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 5: Made no chance, and of course I went on one 494 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 5: on the buzzer. I was quicker. But he is so competitive, 495 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 5: and that's what I get from Michael. He is I 496 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 5: think the most competitive person on the planet I know, 497 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 5: and learning from him that spirit, I want to win 498 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 5: was an is for me a great exercise. And he 499 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 5: is a fantastic businessman, which many people don't realize too much. 500 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 5: But the things what he is doing is very well organized. 501 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 5: He's very much looking to the details. He's very attentive, 502 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 5: and he wants to provide value. He understands sport on 503 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 5: the level I'm not able to understand it, and he 504 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 5: understands sports betting on a level where we are competing. 505 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 5: So I see the directions here and he's seeing that. 506 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 5: Think that would be a cool thing to do. That's 507 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 5: a perfect mix to engage on a business level. Same 508 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 5: story somehow with Mark Cuban, who is so passionate about basketball. 509 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: I love that. 510 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 4: I mean one quick Michael story to put a button 511 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 4: on yours. Jason, haven't told you this. A few months ago, 512 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 4: I was at his golf club in Girl twenty three, 513 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 4: me too. Here's Michael Jordan with his business partner and 514 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,479 Speaker 4: they're sitting there for like four hours going over all 515 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 4: these p and ls, line by line by line, and 516 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 4: I asked them, Michael, you're playing today? He goes, no, 517 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 4: today's my business day. I got to go down the numbers. 518 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 4: And he probably does this once a month, right. So 519 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 4: to your point, I have the same experience. He's been 520 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 4: a great friend and mentor of mine. So I love Jordan. 521 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 5: I hope you played not against him in his golf club. 522 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 5: It's an experience. But he's also, as we both know, 523 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 5: a very good and competitive goal for. 524 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's the fastest golfer. 525 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 4: Him and Mark Wahlberg can play eighteen holes like an 526 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 4: hour and a half. 527 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: I mean, that's way too much stress for me. I'm 528 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: not that good. 529 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 5: Same for me, Alex, same for me Carston. 530 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 3: Before we get too far away from I mean, I 531 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 3: would love to know how did you and Jordan get 532 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,959 Speaker 3: linked up? You know, it's not like he's sort of 533 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 3: like out there. You don't just like text me and 534 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 3: be like, hey, bro, are you interested in this? Like 535 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 3: how does that deal come together? 536 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 5: It's all about networking knowing people. In this case, there 537 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 5: is a third person which is involved in here, and 538 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 5: I'm very grateful for him. He has helped me on 539 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 5: the very beginning. In the US. That's Tad Leon this. 540 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 5: I think he owns the most of the teams, and 541 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 5: Ted is so well connected. I told him the story 542 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 5: what I want to do, and he was the first thing, Okay, 543 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 5: I'm backing this, I'm investing into this. I'm very grateful 544 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 5: for this, and I learned a lot and I got 545 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 5: a lot of connections from Ted. So Ted connected me 546 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 5: with Michael. Michael played for him, so that was an 547 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 5: easy way to go. 548 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad you said that because Ted is coming 549 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 4: on the pod next month. 550 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 5: That will be an interesting part. 551 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 4: I mean Ted is a great partner obviously in the NBA, 552 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 4: but I'm also going to pick a bone with him, Like, 553 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 4: how can you not call me for this great investment 554 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 4: you called Michael. 555 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, look, you should pick on him on this one. 556 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 5: So trust me. T is a fantastic person and very 557 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 5: visionary if it comes to technology, sports, sports batting. He 558 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 5: understood that as one of the first and he's a 559 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 5: great ambassador for US sensational. 560 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting too. I mean, if you think about it, 561 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 3: just talk about Ted for a second. I mean, through AOL, 562 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 3: he saw the collision of sports and technology and information 563 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 3: and being able to aggregate that in real time. And 564 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 3: I mean when you guys first met, to have been a 565 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 3: lot of overlap in terms of even sort of the 566 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 3: underlying philosophy of what you were trying to do. 567 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 5: Look, that was such a quick thing. So we talked 568 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 5: and is that well, we understand the direction which this 569 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 5: should take. And he understands or understood at this moment 570 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 5: in time everything about the US and I was a 571 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 5: very starter. And even now I would say I probably 572 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 5: have ten percent of his knowledge if it comes to 573 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 5: the details in the US and what happens here in 574 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 5: the sport and technology. So I'm good in the sports 575 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 5: batting sector. I'm good in sports technology sector. But Ted 576 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 5: has an overall knowledge and he has that for multiple 577 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 5: sport and he has a track record which is hard 578 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 5: to beat. And that was easy. So if you meet 579 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 5: somebody who's talking the same language, who has that expertise, 580 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 5: who has the network and connection, that was a fairly 581 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 5: simple thing to do. 582 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 3: All right, So let's do the lightning round. This is 583 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 3: our favorite part of this. So we're going to go quick. 584 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 3: We're going to go back and forth. I will start, 585 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 3: so you know, give us the first thing that jumps 586 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 3: to your mind. We may have already talked about this, 587 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 3: but I'm going to ask it anyway, what's the best 588 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 3: deal you've ever made? 589 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 5: Carston created my own business. 590 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 4: What's the best piece of advice you've received on deal 591 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 4: making or business. 592 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 5: Two small steps, prove them, and then accelerate and double 593 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 5: and triple down. 594 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 2: What's the worst advice you've ever been given? 595 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 5: Invest the fortune from people not your own money, and 596 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 5: don't have the right cadence. 597 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 3: What's your best advice for someone who's listening wants to 598 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 3: be an entrepreneur? What would you tell them, especially maybe 599 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 3: in a moment where they're not sure that it's all 600 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 3: going to go their way. 601 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 5: Every good entrepreneur I know and have a few friends. 602 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 5: The older you get, the less you have, but they 603 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 5: all have the same experience as an entrepreneur. You might 604 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 5: run bankrupt once or twice. You're going to need to 605 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 5: believe in yourself, but you need to find the point 606 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 5: when something is not working. Don't put all the passion in. 607 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 5: Be realistic on this. It happens to everybody that you 608 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,719 Speaker 5: struggle sometimes, and the skill is to detect it. I 609 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 5: know it was not a quick answer, but it's an 610 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 5: important point. 611 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: What's your hype song before you go into a big meeting? 612 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 5: Cold Play? 613 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 3: Oh? 614 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: I like Chris Martin? 615 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, well I don't know him, but I love it, 616 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 5: and probably a sky full of stars. 617 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 3: Okay, love it all right, So, Carson Curl, thank you 618 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 3: so much, CEO and founder of sport Radar. 619 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 2: You told us some good stories. Listen anytime, Alex. 620 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 3: We get a good Michael Jordan's story and a good 621 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 3: Ted Leons the story. Like I feel like that's a 622 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 3: successful episode right there. So Carson, we're very grateful for 623 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 3: your time. 624 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: Thank you for your time. 625 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 626 00:32:54,200 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 5: Thank you. 627 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 3: The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly. 628 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 3: This episode was made by Stacey Wong, Annamasarakus, Lizzie Phillip, 629 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 3: and Victor Eveez. Our theme music was made by Blake Maples. 630 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,959 Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Kelly Laferrier, Ashley Honig, and Brendan Newnham. 631 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 3: Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. Additional support 632 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 3: from Rachel Scaramzzino and Elena Los Angeles. Thanks for listening 633 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 3: to the Deal. If you have a minute, please subscribe, rate, 634 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 3: and review our show. It'll help other listeners find us. 635 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 3: And remember, if you're a Bloomberg subscriber, you can listen 636 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 3: to all of our episodes absolutely add free on Apple Podcasts. 637 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 3: All you need to do is find the Bloomberg Channel 638 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 3: and connect your Bloomberg account. 639 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 2: I'm Jason Kelly. See you next week.