WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - September 26th, 2025 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:13.039 This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily reporting from the magazine 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:17.640 that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:22.560 and trends shaping today's complex economy, plus global business, finance 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.320 and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Weekdaily 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:31.320 Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.920 Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Weekend Podcast. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.400 Well our backdrop this week gridlock in New York City. Yes, 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:41.960 that was definitely going on this as the eightieth Annual 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.480 UN General Assembly was in session, coinciding with New York 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:48.960 City's annual Climate Week summit. President Trump gave his first 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:52.560 UN speech of his second term as president, a sailing 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:54.960 the World Body in other countries of offering nothing but 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:59.480 empty words and labeling climate change a con job. With 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.760 Thatlobal Leaders in Town, Bloomberg and Bloomberg Philanthropy is both 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.720 founded by Michael R. Bloomberg hosted the Bloomberg Philanthropies Global Forum, 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:08.720 where we did a live broadcast. 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.319 Over the next two hours, we will bring you some 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.960 of our conversations and highlights from the event. These are 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:18.800 discussions focused on innovation and opportunity in the climate space, 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.040 as well as we're funding for global climate change initiatives 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:24.400 is coming from and how it all fits into the 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:27.480 state of the global economy. On that a lineup of 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:30.919 European leaders from government to banking. We also talk AI 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:33.680 data centers and the growing partnerships in the space with 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.360 the former head of strategic partnerships at OpenAI. 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:38.600 And then a little later on Bloomberg News editor in 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.800 chief John mcklethwaite sits down with the Prime Minister of Spain. 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:44.920 First up this hour, I'll look into the global consumer, 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:49.800 the US consumer, and what big multinational companies are prioritizing 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.120 in this new age of tariffs. We do that by 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:54.440 checking in with the world's largest retailer. We are, of 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.360 course talking about Walmart. A member of the company c 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.840 suite joined us at the Bloomberg Philanthropies Global Forum. Chris 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.400 Nicholas is president and CEO of Sam's Club, wal Mart's 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.480 membership only retail warehouse club, mostly with clubs in the US, 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:10.680 but also overseas in Mexico, China, and Brazil. 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:15.239 What we're seeing at Sam's Club is consumers that are 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.800 consistent and rational. You know, I've been in retail for 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.760 more than thirty years now, and I've never known a 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.680 time when people don't love great items at great prices. 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:27.360 And as long as you're giving people that, we're finding 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.000 consumers really you know, rational and consistent. 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:32.400 What is their behavior though right now? Because that's something 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:34.000 Carol and I were talking a lot about, you know, 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.280 the whole idea of are they buying what they typically buy, 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:39.120 are they buying what they buy at a certain point 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.160 in economic cycle, are they trading up, are they trading down? 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:43.919 What are they doing in your stores? 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:46.720 Yeah, it's interesting with I mean, consistent would be the 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:51.880 word i'd use. People are still buying general merchandise from US. 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:53.760 I mean, we talked in our last quarter at the 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.840 results about general merchandise sales having another quarter of positive 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.600 comp But what's really interesting within that is that the 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.320 units are moving faster than the items, which means that, 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:06.480 you know, we're still giving them great value. And I 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.960 think people are really moving to appreciate when they're getting 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:14.560 good value. You know, the club warehouse model is made 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:16.480 for times like these. I would say it's a good 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:18.600 time to be in the club model. We've got in 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.520 our clubs. We've only got four thousand items. And the 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.359 way that the club model works, just to level set 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.440 us is our job is to make almost nothing on 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:28.360 what we sell. We're just about break even and we 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.120 make all our money from membership. So the lower you 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.960 can operate in terms of costs, the lower you can 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.880 keep prices. And when that happens, people are more loyal, 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.880 they renew more often, and you get more members. So 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.680 we're in this like really special moment right now where 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.120 people are love the great value that we've got and 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.200 they love the great items that we've got to you know, 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:47.680 I want. 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:49.760 To cross that with what we just heard from Freedsherman J. 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.680 Powe in terms of the decision and kind of basically 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.840 saying the FA's not in a great place, like either way, 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.480 there are some risks to the employment picture, their concerns 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.720 still about inflation. So this is there's kind of risks 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.040 to both sides of the equation and concerned about monetary 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.480 policy that it's hard to do right now in this environment. 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:12.000 So that to me sounds uncertain, unsure, But it doesn't 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:13.280 sound like you're saying any of that. 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:18.559 Look, the club we have this position where there's only, 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.680 I mean between us and our main competitors in the 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.320 club model in particular, we're only like six and a 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:27.559 half percent of the total retail market, and we would 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:31.160 definitely from a club point of view, our consumers definitely 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:35.080 skew sort of more wealthy, you know, bigger basket sizes, 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.640 but we do serve everybody, and we don't see a 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.159 great delta between different income cohorts. 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.800 You don't know, all right, that's more generations. When you 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:46.560 think about kind of the environment, whichally when it comes 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.279 into tariffs in terms of pricing, how do you kind 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.320 of figure out where you can maybe raise prices where 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:52.640 you can. 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.240 It's such a great it's such a great question. And 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.960 again not to sort of pivot, but one of the 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:00.880 powers of the club model is because you've only got 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.080 four thousand items in the club, those items are curated 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:08.000 and our merchants, they are true professionals that, like many 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:09.440 of them, have been in their jobs decades and they 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.160 understand the value chain from end to end better than anybody, 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.000 and so they get the ability to choose what's in 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.520 the club, but they also get the ability to work 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.320 through where the inefficiencies are in the supply chain. They've 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.880 got deep relationship with the suppliers, so you work through 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.600 where the opportunities are between the suppliers too. So I'll 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.320 give you an example our roses that we buy from Ecuador. 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.880 The costs went up because you know, the tariff environment changed, 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.760 and so our merchants worked through with the supplier like 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:41.000 what could we do? So we move them in different 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:44.599 ways so we have less packaging. We wrap them in 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:46.880 the US now instead of where we used to wrap them. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.840 And so you do things like that that help you 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.359 to manage the input costs. That means you don't have 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.240 to pass it on to the consumer. And our job 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.640 is to work through how little you pass through, and 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.240 you work through how late you do it. So we'd 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.160 always like to be last last up. 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:04.120 But we we have the. 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.279 Ultimate opportunity in the club channel, and that is that 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:10.000 we have choice because we don't have to sell everything, 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.560 so we the curation actually is a superpower for us. 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:14.560 Does that mean you haven't raised prices on anything? 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.080 No, No, we see there are certain things that where 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.320 prices move all of the time anyway, So produce would 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:23.240 be a good example of that, and there. 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:24.520 Are some terrff for later. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:26.560 Yeah, what I would say to you is that if 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:28.760 I think about general merchandise, would be the which is 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:31.400 like all of the electronics and apparel and all of 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:32.440 those things. 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:34.760 The stuff that I have way too much in my home. 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:40.880 There's never enough, buy more. 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.120 But in terms of teriffs particularly putting pressure on pricing. 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.880 Yeah, So what we see is in terms of what 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.120 people are buying. I think I mentioned this, but the 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.240 growth in the units that we've had is outpacing our 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.080 comps in general merchandise. So if you think about like 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.719 over the last few years, you had like pack goods 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:05.920 through COVID became more expensive and they never really came down, 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.520 whereas general merchandise they We had the supply chain disruption, 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:13.760 you remember that, and the general merchandise inflated and then 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.640 it deflated rapidly as is after all of the supply 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:21.880 chain disruptions disappeared, and at the end of last quarter 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.160 we were still in a period of slight deflation in 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.840 general merchandise. So prices move all of the time. Our 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:29.840 job and our merchant's job is to make sure that 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:33.680 we give people access to the price points they want 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:36.640 and the value that they want. Maybe it's worth mentioning 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.080 but in Sam's Club, like, we're twenty five percent cheaper 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.880 than retail in general. So as we resist putting prices 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.400 up because that's in our DNA, We're always going to 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.120 be more price competitive than everybody else. 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.840 So then you haven't raised any prices related to terror. 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:50.880 We will. 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.440 We will be the last people to put prices up. 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.679 And some prices have gone up, but in the mix, 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.200 I'm telling it so for sure. I mean, we we 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.760 have input price changes in some items, and some come 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.560 through already and some is still to come through. But 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.960 I would tell you that our job is not to 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.560 lead with putting prices up, and all of our sales 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.320 growth in Sam's Club is through unit growth, not inflation. 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.080 Okay, cool, I'm wondering what you're hearing from your team 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:22.760 who's out there talking to the producers, the American producers 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:27.160 of things we grow, produce beef as well. We had 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.360 a Bloomberg News story last week about farmers and a 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:33.640 toll that the Trump administration policies are taking on farmers 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.959 right now. Immigration just one of them. Tariffs on soybeans 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:40.360 are another one. As a result of fewer less interest 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:43.480 from China and Chinese buyers. What are you hearing though, 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.400 on the immigration front, because in some cases forty percent 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.920 of migrant workers are from outside forty percent of farm 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.480 workers rather are migrant workers, So they're coming from outside 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:55.720 the US, and that's a challenge for farmers to actually 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:58.280 find those employees. Right now, what are you hearing from them? 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.319 Yeah, I'm not hearing anything to add or to offer 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:04.160 on that topic. I would tell you that we have 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:08.160 brilliant farmer partners. We understand the value change really well, 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.440 and we have no in stock issues or cost price issues. 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.520 So have they raised prices at all on American produce? 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.880 You'd have to ask somebody else about the through line 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.720 on like employment and pricing preases. I think you probably 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:23.400 speak to lots of people are better informant. 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.880 What about from produce that comes outside of the United States? 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:28.280 I mean, we can't do everything here. We can't grow bananas, 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.240 we can't grow other avocados. Yeah, the tomatoes when they're 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.280 out of season come from outside of the US. What 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:34.360 does that look like? 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.680 We definitely over index on US beef. The vast majority 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:42.040 of what we buy is US, the vast majority, and 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.480 and so you know, but we have choices about where 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.000 we buy from this is the benefit of being this curated, 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.440 limited assortment retailer is that we get the choices to 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:52.960 buy from the places that where you give the consumers 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:56.559 great value and great quality, which we're never going to 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:01.240 relent on. But you know, yeah, we buy items, you know, 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:06.040 buy avocados as you said, from abroad, and many other items, 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:09.920 tomatoes when it's out of season, and you know the 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.880 quality and the value. That will never relent on the quality. 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:15.880 But if the input costs increase, and the input's costs 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:19.680 will increase. But there's produce. There are so many variables 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.320 produce and beef. I mean that there are so many 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.080 variables that pushes the costs down as well as up. 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:30.559 So I think it's a super complex situation. And I 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:33.400 think that our farmers are some of the best in 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:35.880 the world, and I think that our merchants know how 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:37.800 to work with the farmers. The thing, the best thing 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:39.840 you can do for those farmers is to give them 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.920 great forecasts, allow them to grow to those forecasts, and 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:47.720 give them good prices that allow them to understandable business models. 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:49.000 And we do a really good job of that. 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.360 Chris, you guys in retail, I'm sure we're you know, 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:53.920 even late to talk about the holiday season and the 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:57.080 upcoming holiday season when you think about assortment and what 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.800 you want to have inventory for consumers, how's it looking 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:01.000 for this year? Is it going to be a lot 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.400 different from last year? Are the supply channel there to 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:05.760 get what you need and what you want for your consumers? 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.040 Yeah, that's not an issue. We don't see any issues 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:12.080 with supply chain management in that way. A Sam's Club 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.120 in particular, we get really early. Is you guys, are 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:18.040 Sam's Club now, which hopefully you know, please do You'll 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:19.160 see it's full of Christmas. 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:21.120 I know it tries to be a little crazy. Yeah, 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.200 I mean, if I understand, is it so? I mean 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:24.559 Halloween hasn't even happened. 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.120 Yeah, Well, in the club channel, people like to be prepared, 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:30.840 So we get into a season early and then we 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:34.880 exit early. And that's the kind of scarcity is part 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:39.840 of the value that we create and so so we're 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:41.640 not worried about it from a Sam's Club point of view. 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:44.760 But the thing I would say is that people just 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.800 love to celebrate, they love to buy, they love the seasons, 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:52.439 and so I think you'll find that certainly at Sam's Club. 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:56.959 People whether it's the general merchandise they buy pre Thanksgiving 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:59.280 and Christmas, or the food that they buy for the season. 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:01.600 A long as you're giving them great value, they're going 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.000 to come to you and people will find a way 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:04.640 to celebrate. 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:06.720 One of the things we love about the Global Business 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:13.240 Form is we tackle everything climate change, you know, workforce, employment, economics, politics. 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.080 As a leader who's been at a company for a 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.120 long time and I'm sure looking at everything that's going on, 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:21.520 what's top of mind for you and an environment where 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:24.760 this pushback against certain initiatives, there's a lot of political 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.840 things going on, geopolitics. I'm just curious, you know, in 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:30.880 running what you guys do, and I know you're kind 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.480 of a well oiled machine in many ways, but I'm 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:34.439 just curious. 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.239 Yeah, I think, you know, in the in an environment 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:42.120 of change, and by the way, I like, changes are 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:46.360 constant and you've got to love it. Then. I've always 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:48.880 found that the best thing to do is to focus 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.520 on what you can control. And what you can control 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:57.040 is the culture you create as a business, how you 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.679 work with and treat your customers and your members, the 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:01.360 experiences that you create. 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:02.000 You know. 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.960 A great example is the e commerce business We've just 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.040 launched express delivery from our clubs and people love it 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:09.960 and they're opting in. 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:12.480 Does the price change with delivery? 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:16.240 No, we have price parity. We have price so others don't. 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.840 We do, So we have price parity between clubs and 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.280 an online that's really important from a trust point of view. 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.800 And people are thanking us for our delivery from club 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.960 food and non food is growing at triple digits right now. 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.680 So I think, like, focus on what you can control. 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.880 Start with being great people. Start with being a great business. 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.240 Look after your associates so they can look after our members, 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.320 and then you know that that generally will lead to 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:43.320 the right outcomes. 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:44.240 So on that. 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.079 We'll hear from one of your big competitors tomorrow. Costco 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.560 reports earnings tomorrow. How do you make sure that people 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:52.840 join Sam's Club and not Costco? 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:53.680 Yeah? 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.960 Look, Costco is a great competitor. We think that we're 0:13:57.960 --> 0:13:59.760 great too, and we're doing a lot of good things. 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:01.520 What I would tell you is this. 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:04.800 Because you have an aggressive plan in terms of expansion. 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:06.200 Yeah, I mean about it. 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.200 I know, Yeah, we're really excited about that plan. Actually, 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:11.520 the club channel in general is a relatively small channel. 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.480 There's a huge there's huge upside for the whole of 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:15.600 the club channel. And I would tell you this, good 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:19.760 competition makes you better, and I've never been afraid of 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:21.080 good competition. 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.560 What about AI and how you guys are working? 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:25.520 Are you afraid of AI? 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:28.560 AI? 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:29.680 We're trying to AI. 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:33.600 Is a big topic everywhere now, isn't it. We You know, 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.160 here's the thing we are. We're excited about AI as 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.520 a company and I am personally too. I think this 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:40.280 idea of. 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:41.600 Are you guys using it a lot? 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:42.040 A lot. 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:43.760 We've been using it for a long time, honestly, but 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.520 the generative AI and then the agentic AI that's coming 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:50.920 through too, is really exciting. It's exciting for our members 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.880 and for our associates. What we do we pivot to growth? 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:56.800 How does this help us move faster, do more for 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:00.520 our associates and our members? How do we find different 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.400 routes to market? So that's exciting. Of course, we also 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.960 look at how do you find opportunities to take time 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:08.840 out of product launches and all of those kind of 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.400 things so that you're a better business. The one thing 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.080 that you may have seen is we also believe that 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:17.480 the opportunity to give people to empower people with the 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:21.640 use of AI but with an enterprise, but with enterprise 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.760 data is really exciting. So whether it's in the office 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:26.960 or recently, we made an announcement a couple of weeks 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.880 ago at our holiday meeting where we gave our frontline 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:35.080 management access to open ai, to chat GBT and which 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.560 they can use to just go faster and do more. 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:39.120 And that's really exciting. 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.640 Our Thanks to Chris Nicholas, President and CEO of Sam's Club. 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:44.920 Coming up, we go all in on AI with the 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.680 former head of Strategic Partnerships and Global Affairs at open Ai. 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.239 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.520 You are listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.840 Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.880 Eastern Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.360 Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.760 Leaders and one of the big topics this week that 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.040 we've seen as World Leaders are in town and also 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.640 as it's climate NYC is everything and anything to do 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:21.880 with artificial intelligence. 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.160 I mean we can kind of stay away from headbines here. 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.240 Every single day Microsoft partner with open AI rival Anthropic 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.520 to help power its workplace. AI Assistant Anthropic founded by 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:33.560 former open ai employees Carol. It's one of the largest 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.760 competitors to open ai, a key player in the industry. 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:38.280 Yeah, just coming on the heels of one of the 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.240 big stories that we covered this weekend, VideA announcing it 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.160 we'll invest as much as one hundred billion dollars in 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.560 open ai to help with that build out of data center. 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.440 So there's a lot going on when it comes to AI. 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:50.800 It's all about partnerships and we have a great guest 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.200 to talk about that. Lane dilg is former head of 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.640 Strategic Partnerships Global Affairs at OpenAI. She's had a career 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.240 in law politics and she's also worked at the Department 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.680 of Justice. I'm rush, but you have like this incredible 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:07.639 public private background. So when you think about AI, I 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:09.439 don't know how do you make sense of just it 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.360 just feels phrenetic. The amount of money, the amount of activity, 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:13.920 the amount of headlines that come every day. 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.400 Yes, there obviously is so much happening, so many big 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:19.199 deals in the news, and those big deals in the 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.800 news do have real life implications for all of us. 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.359 So incredible, As you mentioned, to see the Nvidia and 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.639 open Ai deal showing that Nvidia will provide chips to 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.040 open ai up to ten gigawatts and also make an 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:35.320 investment one hundred billion dollars, obviously shoring up open AI's 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.920 credit and providing a real runway for open Ai. Those 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.920 kinds of deals we are seeing almost weekly right now. 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.640 You mentioned Microsoft and Anthropic as well, so very very 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:50.840 competitive landscape and a landscape that is moving extremely quickly. 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.480 It's kind of funny to hear about Microsoft partnering with Anthropic, 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.400 given that Microsoft is a huge investor in open Ai. 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.240 What do you make of that? Like, what's the world 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.680 that we're living in when you have these bedfellows? 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:01.720 Yes, I think you know. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:03.920 I think everyone is watching sort of all of these 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.040 different pieces. From an adoption perspective, people are looking at 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.879 how how many different companies will individual companies work with? 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:14.320 So do you want to work with one AI model? 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:16.760 Do you want to one AI model provider? Do you 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.320 want to work with many? Microsoft also has in house AI, 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.080 they have the partnership with open Ai, and now you 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:24.080 see them with Anthropic. 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:26.919 Well can you We've had some folks come on our 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.840 program and say, okay, there's been so much funding, there's 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:31.920 been so much money chasing these companies. There are also 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.280 those people who say, we're kind of just going to 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:37.520 wait until the doest settles because we think there could 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:41.040 be this commodity issue when it comes to lms. What 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:46.720 separates one LM from another, What separates Claude from chat 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.479 GPT And I fully we're asking somebody who was at 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.600 chad at open AI. So yes, that's where this question 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:53.240 is coming from. 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:55.480 A great question though, because obviously now I use all 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:57.280 of them to try to stay up to date on 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.639 where everyone is, and I also so speak with the 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:02.960 different companies about sort of what their trajectory will be 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.200 going forward. I do think the models are somewhat different 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:10.400 just for users. They provide responses a little bit differently, 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.040 they're friendly in different ways, they're useful in different ways, 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.040 and so there's some personal preference. I do think that 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:21.960 we will start to see differentiation in areas like material science, chemistry, 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:26.679 biology as people really move into these more specific domains 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.199 where different model providers lean in. Who they work with 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.199 and how will become important in terms of what you 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.960 can do to solve problems with the technology. So and 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:39.000 I think the other piece, as you see with the 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:43.919 Nvidio opening ideal. We often say infrastructure is destiny. It 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.959 is true that there is also this massive race for compute, 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.880 and that is because to continue the research and development, 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:53.520 to continue to make the progress, you need compute and 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.399 compute requires a lot of energy. So we don't know 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.439 yet whether there will be a differentiation there or not, 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.280 but everyone racing to make sure they have the compute 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:03.560 they need to continue development. 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:06.240 You run your own advisory firm and you're you know, 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.080 dealing with kind of innovation and partnerships right and working 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.000 with other companies. But I want to go back to 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:12.560 what Tim said. I mean, I think there was when 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:16.119 the Nvidia deal came out that there was concerns that 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.360 it was a sign of a bubble. That it's Nvidia 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.399 partnering with open Ai. Obviously it's the company chat gipt 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:26.560 so identified when it comes to AI at this point, 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.160 but this idea that Nvidia needs a marketplace to keep 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.840 buying its chips. So I'm just curious. I mean, at 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.200 some point, I don't know what are you hearing from 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.760 companies as you talk to them. Are they a little 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.320 cautious at all? Is there any nervousness about this incredible 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:43.960 spend and this incredible buildout. 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:48.159 Yes, a great question. Obviously, financial experts around the world 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.080 asking many of these questions. I think, you know, we 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.760 previously thought that Nvidia may not be able to supply enough. 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.600 So interesting to now hear people say, well, they are, 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:01.240 you know, trying to find a consumer the gipsy. Yes, right, 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.520 so I think you know, I think that conversation happening 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:08.160 on both sides. You know, my own personal view is 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:11.920 that we are not yet anywhere close to maxing out 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:15.840 the demand for compute and chips, and when we are, 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.440 then you may actually see that model development as stalling 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:21.760 or something else. But I just don't think we're there 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:22.160 right now. 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:24.439 I am curious when you are at open AI and 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:26.760 we know you left a couple a few months ago, 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:28.760 but now you have your own advisory firm. Is the 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.159 phone ringing off the hook of people saying, help me, 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:33.600 I need to find this and what are they looking for? 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:37.000 Yes, so it is true that people are looking for 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.800 lots of answers. They're looking for answers to the macroeconomic questions. 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:44.040 They're looking for answers to help them guide investments. But 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:48.159 then teachers and healthcare providers are looking at you know, 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:50.119 what is the potential How do I take care of 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:52.600 my workforce and also take care of those I serve 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:54.720 at the same time, what is the pace of adoption. 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:59.240 I'm excited to be here with Bloomberg Philanthropies working on 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.760 the Mayorage Challenge, which is a competition they run around 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:07.359 the world for mayoral innovation for city services, and so 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:10.440 many people in that space saying where are the opportunities 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:15.200 for innovation, and we're seeing such interesting proposals there as well. 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:16.800 I just want to say I actually had a meeting 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:19.360 with a giant company I'm not going to say who 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:19.600 it was. 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:20.840 And we've heard of them. 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:22.760 Yeah, everybody's heard of them. But it was like we 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:25.159 were talking about they were asking me about how I'm 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:27.960 using AI I was asking them, and it's like we're 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:30.040 all kind of fumbling our way through and we have 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:32.080 courses that have come up at Bloomberg to kind of 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:35.280 help us figure our way through. This company they're just 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:37.119 kind of like somebody figure something out and they do 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:39.200 it kind of a show and tell, but it's it's 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:41.359 interesting how we're trying to find our way through this. 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:44.600 Yes, I've heard two CEOs at the Frontier Labs really 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:47.840 really say the pace of scientific progress on the AI 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:51.560 side is much faster than the pace of implementation and adoption. 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:52.080 It's hard. 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:54.520 These are large institutions with lots of people. You have 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:56.520 to actually figure out what is the right way for 0:22:56.640 --> 0:22:58.840 your company, for your school, for your business, and that 0:22:58.880 --> 0:22:59.440 takes some time. 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:02.520 Chat GPT all the time. Personally. I use it at 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:04.199 work too. We have the paid version at work, but 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:06.040 I have the free version on my phone, and when 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:07.960 it tells me I can't use it anymore, I just 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:11.080 go over and use claude. How do you prevent that? 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:11.439 Like? 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:12.919 How do you get me to pay for it? Like? 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:15.600 How do you monetize all the free users when so 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:16.920 much compute is being used? 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:17.320 Yeah? 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:19.960 I think you know same with any product in a 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:22.520 certain way. You want yours to be the go to. 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:24.520 You want yours to be the most useful, the one 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:26.480 that you turn to to solve the problems that are 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:29.040 most important to you. And I think that companies are 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.800 competing in that, and we'll see fits and starts, But 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.840 you do you get accustomed to one product or another. 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:36.680 So will we be paying for it? 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:39.720 Well? I mean or is there going to be advertising? 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:42.640 Yeah, so I think you know right now you can 0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:45.800 pay for different different levels of access. I think that 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:49.760 is meaningful both for individuals and for businesses. I use 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:52.200 the paid accounts across all of the different companies, which 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:54.000 may seem crazy, but I want to see where the 0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:57.040 capability really is. So I do think that is the 0:23:57.080 --> 0:23:59.720 monetization that you're seeing primarily. 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:01.359 And I'm not at taxed for, but that's a business expense, 0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:02.080 I would imagine. 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:09.440 So yes, I do think though about the intersection of 0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:14.119 technology and politics, and I feel like every decision is 0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:17.479 made with a careful glance at the White House. So 0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:20.240 talk to me about that and how that might I 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:23.280 don't know kind of impact the deals that are done 0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:24.040 and how they're done. 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:26.359 Yes, absolutely, I think you see a lot of that 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:29.640 in the infrastructure space. So if you if you look 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:32.160 at the models, they, as we talked about, require compute, 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:35.320 but compute also requires energy, and as we look at 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:38.320 competition between the United States and China, I think people 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:40.800 feel really good about our talent, they feel really good 0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:43.160 about our workforce, they feel really good about our innovation, 0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:45.920 but we do need to get more energy on the grid. 0:24:46.000 --> 0:24:48.000 And we need to do that fast. And so I 0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:50.080 think you see this all of the above approach, but 0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:53.240 also disagreement over what is that all of the above approach, 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:55.360 How does it work? Do things need to be grid 0:24:55.400 --> 0:24:58.080 connected or not? And most importantly, how do I make 0:24:58.119 --> 0:25:00.919 sure that consumers have the electricity they need at the 0:25:00.960 --> 0:25:03.280 prices they need while we power all this AI? 0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:05.800 Well, is it ultimately going to be everybody, especially the 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:10.320 hyper scalers probably doing their own energy development on site, 0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:11.040 that kind of thing. 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:12.919 Or I think you'll see a mix, just like you 0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:14.679 see the A mix and the financial deals. I think 0:25:14.720 --> 0:25:16.960 you'll see a mix both to hedge risk, but also 0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:19.560 because it'll be opportunistic. We need the energy as fast 0:25:19.600 --> 0:25:20.040 as we can get. 0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:22.080 Hey, just want to end with what this does to 0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:25.639 the American workforce, the global workforce. Dario Amida over at 0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:28.560 Anthropic has been really outspoken about how this could just 0:25:28.720 --> 0:25:31.600 decimate white collar jobs. You agree. 0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:34.840 So, I think there was a conference in San Francisco 0:25:34.880 --> 0:25:37.159 that people are watching just last week about what the 0:25:37.160 --> 0:25:40.000 different scenarios are. I think we don't know the answers yet, 0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:42.359 and so from a policy perspective, we need to be 0:25:42.400 --> 0:25:46.240 planning for multiple scenarios. It's critically important that we understand 0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:49.320 both the data of how are jobs moving, where the 0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:52.600 transition's happening, and also look at the social safety nets 0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:55.560 and other things to make sure that if there is dislocation, 0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:57.840 we're doing the reskilling, We're doing the training to get 0:25:57.880 --> 0:25:59.960 people into a place that is product. 0:26:00.240 --> 0:26:01.800 You've seen the tech up close, you know what it 0:26:01.800 --> 0:26:03.040 can do. What keeps you up at night. 0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:06.680 What keeps me up at night is, as always, it's 0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:09.280 the humans. It's our human potential, it's our ability to 0:26:09.280 --> 0:26:11.480 step into this technology, and it's also what we can 0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:13.919 do with it for good or for ill. And I 0:26:13.920 --> 0:26:15.560 think that that's the space where I'd like to see 0:26:15.560 --> 0:26:16.440 the policy focused. 0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:18.720 Are you worried about the bad side of AI? 0:26:19.440 --> 0:26:22.960 I'm worried about humans using AI for bad purposes, is 0:26:23.000 --> 0:26:26.400 what I worry about more than the doomers, who are 0:26:26.440 --> 0:26:29.720 more concerned about what we would call alignment issues. I 0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:32.280 think the science on alignment is pretty strong and will 0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:34.080 continue to be strong, and people will be alarmed if 0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:36.800 it's not. But the question of what can you do 0:26:36.840 --> 0:26:39.359 with the technology is a hard one. We are about 0:26:39.359 --> 0:26:40.600 to all get more powerful. 0:26:40.840 --> 0:26:44.040 That was Lane dilg former head of Strategic Partnerships Global 0:26:44.080 --> 0:26:47.960 Affairs at OpenAI. Again. We were broadcasting live this past 0:26:47.960 --> 0:26:51.280 week from the Bloomberg Philanthropies Global Forum at the Plaza Hotel. 0:26:51.680 --> 0:26:54.720 The event took place alongside the United Nations General Assembly 0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:57.000 in New York, and it brought together heads of state, 0:26:57.240 --> 0:26:59.840 business leaders and more to address the world's most urgent 0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:03.560 challenges and opportunities. There were a lot of leaders there, 0:27:03.800 --> 0:27:07.480 weird from Bill Gates, Ruth Pratt of Alphabet, Jane Goodall 0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:11.000 was there, NBA Commissioner Adam Silver, Brookfields, Bruce Flatt, and 0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:13.520 many more. Check out all of the interviews from the 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:16.879 Bloomberg Philanthropies at Global Forum on the Bloomberg Terminal or 0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:18.320 at Bloomberg dot com. 0:27:18.320 --> 0:27:21.840 Still ahead on Bloomberg BusinessWeek. The European buildout that investors 0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:25.520 are eyeing when it comes to sustainable economic development and 0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:25.880 how to. 0:27:25.840 --> 0:27:28.359 Get those countries to come together to make it all happen. 0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:31.200 We do that with the lending arm of the European 0:27:31.320 --> 0:27:35.320 Union as well as the European Commissioner for International Partnerships. 0:27:35.680 --> 0:27:36.800 This is Bloomberg. 0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:42.280 This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live 0:27:42.359 --> 0:27:45.960 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Applecarplay and 0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:48.840 Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also 0:27:48.960 --> 0:27:52.280 listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:55.200 Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:27:56.160 --> 0:27:59.560 This past week, Bloomberg Philanthropy's Global Form took place alongside 0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:03.080 the UN General Assembly in New York and alongside Climate 0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:06.760 Week NYC Now. The event brings together heads of state 0:28:06.800 --> 0:28:09.879 and business leaders to address the world's most urgent challenges 0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:10.960 and opportunities. 0:28:11.200 --> 0:28:15.440 Among those challenges and opportunities is global sustainable economic development. 0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:18.960 And that's where Joseph Sekela comes in. He's European Commissioner 0:28:18.960 --> 0:28:22.040 for International Partnerships. It's kind of exactly what it sounds like. 0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:24.640 He's charged with working with countries all over the world 0:28:24.640 --> 0:28:28.800 to partner on everything from infrastructure, finance, decarbonization, sustainable development 0:28:29.000 --> 0:28:30.840 and more. Welcome, thanks for joining us today. 0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:32.280 Thank you very much for the invitation. 0:28:32.520 --> 0:28:34.919 So you're remed is big, it's global. How do you 0:28:35.000 --> 0:28:38.280 see this in the context of America first and the 0:28:38.320 --> 0:28:41.080 world in some cases turning more inward. 0:28:42.000 --> 0:28:45.960 Well, my experience is slightly different. I don't believe in 0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:50.640 zero some games. I'm a former banker, and my experience 0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:53.720 is that all the business which is not to a 0:28:54.040 --> 0:28:58.840 benefit of all involved parties does not have a usually 0:28:58.880 --> 0:29:02.840 long life. And basically I think Europe is the best 0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:08.120 proof because being built from scratch after the Second World War, 0:29:08.720 --> 0:29:14.320 the cooperation the solidarity was basically one of the foundations 0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:20.640 of the success on the way to lifestyle superpower in average, 0:29:21.160 --> 0:29:25.720 high salaries, highest living standards. This is not a coincident 0:29:25.800 --> 0:29:30.520 that from thirty most developed countries based on the Human 0:29:30.560 --> 0:29:34.200 Development Index, twenty are European ones. And this is basically 0:29:34.240 --> 0:29:39.960 also the narrative. We want to promote partnership of equals, 0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:48.120 mutual benefit, strategic alliances which should help to create jobs, 0:29:48.680 --> 0:29:52.480 to create supply chains, to open the access to the 0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:58.080 world markets to less developed countries, because this is about 0:29:58.080 --> 0:30:01.480 the varue creation, but this is also about the fair 0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:06.200 access to critical raw materials, to more global security, to 0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:08.840 resilience Commission Sequila. 0:30:08.960 --> 0:30:11.800 I am curious who's it easier to partner with China 0:30:11.880 --> 0:30:13.560 today or the United States? 0:30:14.200 --> 0:30:19.800 Well, I don't see, for example, Russia as a like 0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:27.360 economic competitor arrival because what they can offer is just bribes, weapons, 0:30:27.440 --> 0:30:32.400 propaganda and lives in that they are good. China is 0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:37.160 basically plundering the partner countries. They are not investing in 0:30:37.200 --> 0:30:40.480 the future of the countries. They are interested to control 0:30:41.040 --> 0:30:44.479 the supply chain of the row materials and to weaponize it. 0:30:45.160 --> 0:30:45.440 Uh. 0:30:45.480 --> 0:30:47.320 And this is not the way we want to go. 0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:52.040 And I had a very productive meetings here with you 0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:59.440 as representatives and also with the senior advisor, with the 0:30:59.480 --> 0:31:05.960 advisor uh uh uh to President Trump on Africa. And 0:31:06.080 --> 0:31:10.280 this is not about us against Europe. This is about 0:31:11.040 --> 0:31:17.240 collaboration of guardians of democracy in order to ensure fair 0:31:17.400 --> 0:31:23.920 supply chains and uh and and about basically access to 0:31:23.960 --> 0:31:30.960 the chrotico romatillos in order to not allowed the authoritarian 0:31:31.360 --> 0:31:33.160 regimes to to weaponize it. 0:31:33.360 --> 0:31:36.520 Your view on China really got my attention how you 0:31:36.560 --> 0:31:40.200 described it. Do do do countries that China has partnered 0:31:40.240 --> 0:31:42.120 with in the past, and I'm thinking of the historic 0:31:42.160 --> 0:31:45.360 Belton Road initiative from the last decade and a half 0:31:45.480 --> 0:31:47.920 or so, do they share your view that they do 0:31:48.000 --> 0:31:51.160 they feel like China plundered them. 0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:58.640 Subsequently, I think the attention to the difference between promises 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:03.400 and deliver is increasing in the countries. And since I 0:32:03.440 --> 0:32:10.280 took over the responsibility for global gateaway the European Investment 0:32:10.400 --> 0:32:14.840 Sustainable Investment initiative. I'm traveling, I am traveling a lot 0:32:14.880 --> 0:32:20.600 and to New York. I arrived from Pacific and from Africa, 0:32:20.640 --> 0:32:26.360 from Namibia. And yeah, sometimes I'm calling it belt and 0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:32.600 ring trap because our attitude is to empower, not to impose, 0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:37.760 not to entrap. And there are simply examples, and Namibia 0:32:37.880 --> 0:32:41.520 is the best example. Where Europe is investing in education, 0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:45.640 in supply chains, in the economy of the future, in 0:32:45.720 --> 0:32:53.760 hydrogen production, in de carbonized direct reduced iron which can 0:32:53.800 --> 0:32:57.280 be then used for a clean for production of a 0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:01.360 high quality. Still for example, in Europe, when you take 0:33:01.560 --> 0:33:05.040 into account the structure of the trade between Europe and 0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:11.280 Namibia is very much diverse, and that there is a 0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:15.640 balance positive in favor of Namibia. What is China doing. 0:33:16.200 --> 0:33:20.440 China is investings the road to the mines and buying 0:33:20.600 --> 0:33:25.800 purely unprocessed raw materials and shipping them and sending them 0:33:25.840 --> 0:33:30.600 to China. Meanwhile, it's China controlling seventy percent of the 0:33:30.840 --> 0:33:36.360 raw materials. And we have in Europe very negative experience 0:33:37.160 --> 0:33:43.080 with dependencies and the bill for basically get rid of 0:33:43.120 --> 0:33:47.480 the dependence on Russian fossil fuels was extremely high and 0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:50.600 extremely painful, but we learned what does it mean if 0:33:50.640 --> 0:33:55.280 your arrival is weaponizing the supplies of the fossil fuels 0:33:55.400 --> 0:33:57.680 or critical raw materials against you. 0:33:58.120 --> 0:34:02.720 Our thanks to Joseph Sequila, European Commissioner for International Partnerships. 0:34:02.320 --> 0:34:04.720 Now along with the UN General Assembly this past week, 0:34:04.720 --> 0:34:07.040 as we said, it was also Climate Week NYC and 0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:10.000 Mother Earth was a big topic for President Trump during 0:34:10.040 --> 0:34:13.600 his UN speech, calling climate change quote the greatest con 0:34:13.719 --> 0:34:17.800 job ever perpetrated on the world, while also criticizing renewable 0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:19.360 energy and praising coal. 0:34:19.800 --> 0:34:23.480 The President also warning you and member countries saying quote, 0:34:23.560 --> 0:34:26.200 if you don't get away from this green scam, your 0:34:26.239 --> 0:34:29.480 country is going to fail. That could spell a major 0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:32.719 blow to global climate change initiatives. Our next guest is 0:34:32.800 --> 0:34:36.200 still hoping to deliver over one trillion euros in green 0:34:36.239 --> 0:34:39.720 investment by twenty thirty. In his role, Ama was FIO 0:34:39.960 --> 0:34:42.520 is Vice President of the European Investment Bank. It's the 0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:44.480 lending arm of the European Union. 0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:48.800 One of the big products of your opinion is climate 0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:52.480 neutrality by twenty fifty, right, and we have put in 0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:56.560 plaze to support the subjective a policy that is our 0:34:56.640 --> 0:35:03.200 climate strategy that has targets including having more than fifty 0:35:03.200 --> 0:35:06.160 percent of what we do in climate and environment. This 0:35:06.239 --> 0:35:08.080 is a target that we have reached. We are very 0:35:08.120 --> 0:35:13.400 closer to sixty percent. We are landing around one hundred 0:35:13.480 --> 0:35:17.200 billion euros per year. So it's a big thing for 0:35:17.360 --> 0:35:22.239 us in terms of financing for renewable energy projects, energy efficiency, 0:35:23.360 --> 0:35:30.279 clean transportation, innovation in climate. And our goal is to 0:35:30.680 --> 0:35:33.759 continue and stay of course, because we think this is 0:35:33.960 --> 0:35:37.920 also something that is good for maintaining competitiveness in Europe. 0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:42.759 And we are going to present to our board our 0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:46.239 climate strategy for the next five years that will basically 0:35:46.400 --> 0:35:49.840 continue the pace that we have chosen since five years 0:35:50.400 --> 0:35:53.680 and link that to the competitiveness of your opinion. 0:35:54.040 --> 0:35:56.960 So, even with a narrative in some parts of the 0:35:57.200 --> 0:36:01.440 world that are maybe pushing back against climate change and 0:36:01.640 --> 0:36:06.320 green initiatives, sustainable initiatives, that nothing's changed for you guys. 0:36:06.719 --> 0:36:10.120 No, for us, nothing changes in terms of the past 0:36:10.320 --> 0:36:13.320 and the objective. What we trial to do is to 0:36:13.840 --> 0:36:16.640 listen to what our stakehold does tell us, right and 0:36:16.719 --> 0:36:19.960 for example, some of the SMEs tell us that the 0:36:20.000 --> 0:36:23.640 reporting obligations are very, very complicated. So these kind of 0:36:23.680 --> 0:36:25.560 things that we are going to try also to address 0:36:25.560 --> 0:36:28.959 in our strategy, but the key objectives we are going 0:36:29.000 --> 0:36:29.600 to keep them. 0:36:29.760 --> 0:36:32.319 Can you expand on the idea of competitive advantage a 0:36:32.320 --> 0:36:34.880 little more because here in the United States, as the 0:36:34.880 --> 0:36:37.040 president he said, if you don't get away from this 0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:39.360 green scam, your country is going to fail. He essentially 0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:41.960 thinks that it's a waste of money to actually invest 0:36:42.000 --> 0:36:45.440 in green initiatives or do you sustainable development. That's my takeaway. 0:36:45.600 --> 0:36:48.840 What's the competitive advantage that you believe the European Union 0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:52.200 Union has if it invests in this way? 0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:56.279 I would say there are two things. And when you 0:36:56.320 --> 0:36:59.480 look at energy, we have invested thirty one billion euros 0:36:59.480 --> 0:37:02.640 in twenty five for energy projects. So the one billionaires 0:37:02.680 --> 0:37:06.839 is a lot of money in offshore wind farms, in grids, 0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:11.480 in a lot of also solar and nuclear are then 0:37:11.600 --> 0:37:16.200 the number of projects that are related to energy. The 0:37:16.280 --> 0:37:21.400 things that we see is one that actually the competitiveness 0:37:21.400 --> 0:37:24.280 of the cost of energy is going down for many 0:37:24.800 --> 0:37:30.160 of these renewable energy and it's becoming competitive. And the 0:37:30.200 --> 0:37:33.520 second thing is when you look at energy, you also 0:37:33.560 --> 0:37:37.520 need to look at your independence and what we have 0:37:37.640 --> 0:37:40.480 learned since twenty two and that's why we're sped up. Actually, 0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:45.440 the implementation of our energy projects is that if you 0:37:45.480 --> 0:37:47.520 want to be independent from Russia, you need to have 0:37:47.560 --> 0:37:51.280 more and more energy independence. Energy dependence for a continent 0:37:51.360 --> 0:37:55.640 that has little energy itself means renewable energy and other 0:37:55.719 --> 0:37:56.600 kind of energies. 0:37:56.719 --> 0:37:58.919 How are you thinking about and another war of course 0:37:58.920 --> 0:38:02.200 between Russia and Ukraine is not over still, but thinking 0:38:02.200 --> 0:38:04.520 about what might need to be done in terms of 0:38:04.640 --> 0:38:10.360 helping Ukraine going forward, the financing demands and needs that 0:38:10.400 --> 0:38:13.120 will be to build back or that's been destroyed. 0:38:13.320 --> 0:38:18.320 Yeah, well, actually it is absolutely clear that the needs 0:38:18.520 --> 0:38:22.479 are euroge in Ukraine. And from the beginning of the war, 0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:29.200 we have been supporting Ukraine. Actually, even the week after 0:38:29.360 --> 0:38:33.600 the war we have you know, read on some of 0:38:33.640 --> 0:38:38.720 our loans to be able to send some financing to 0:38:38.719 --> 0:38:42.279 to the Ukraine governments. Since the beginning of the war, 0:38:42.400 --> 0:38:47.080 we have financed four billion years of projects in Ukraine 0:38:47.120 --> 0:38:51.279 and that is mostly in projects that have you know, 0:38:52.800 --> 0:39:01.600 reconstruction of hospital, working with municipalities, train abilities and actually 0:39:01.719 --> 0:39:05.279 we have just opened a new a new line in 0:39:05.440 --> 0:39:08.359 Ukraine that where the you know, the tracks of the 0:39:08.920 --> 0:39:11.440 of the trains will be the same as in Europe. 0:39:11.480 --> 0:39:14.200 It wasn't the case before you had between the Ukraine 0:39:14.200 --> 0:39:17.480 and Slovakia. In this case you had to change trains 0:39:17.480 --> 0:39:18.000 at the border. 0:39:18.160 --> 0:39:18.719 Now you don't know. 0:39:18.880 --> 0:39:21.399 As you rebuild, you do it, yeah, exactly. 0:39:20.600 --> 0:39:23.719 And this is also on the way for accession of 0:39:23.800 --> 0:39:26.800 Ukraine to the European Union. And we have done something 0:39:26.840 --> 0:39:30.239 that that is not necessarily consistent with our climate strategy, 0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:32.080 but that we have done for Ukraine. 0:39:32.960 --> 0:39:34.960 We have just approved. 0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:39.080 Alone that is going to to low Ukraine to to 0:39:39.160 --> 0:39:42.800 finance it storage for the winter, because you know that's 0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:43.799 that's an emergency. 0:39:43.880 --> 0:39:46.000 You're here meeting with leaders from all over the world. 0:39:46.000 --> 0:39:48.440 If there's a message that you have for American leaders 0:39:48.480 --> 0:39:50.719 and what you want from American leaders right now, what 0:39:50.880 --> 0:39:51.120 is it? 0:39:51.520 --> 0:39:54.239 The thing that I like here is to be able 0:39:54.280 --> 0:39:57.680 to meet with a lot of people from very various 0:39:58.200 --> 0:40:04.400 backgrounds and now, and that's what makes these meetings so interesting. 0:40:04.680 --> 0:40:09.239 I mean, the trans atlantic relationship is so important that 0:40:10.440 --> 0:40:13.240 we need to do everything to make us as a 0:40:13.280 --> 0:40:15.040 good partners as possibley. 0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:18.759 That was Amboise Fio, Vice President of the European Investment Bank. 0:40:18.880 --> 0:40:20.600 And that wraps up our first hour of the weekend 0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:23.640 edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Coming up 0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:26.960 in the next sixty minutes, more voices among the European leadership, 0:40:27.120 --> 0:40:30.320 including the Prime Minister of Spain, and conversation with Bloomberg 0:40:30.360 --> 0:40:33.320 News Editor in chief John Micklethwaite. 0:40:32.840 --> 0:40:35.880 Plus a former Climate High Level Champion on how COPP 0:40:35.920 --> 0:40:38.560 will work in the face of American climate hostility. 0:40:38.719 --> 0:40:42.080 As our coverage of the Bloomberg Philanthropy's Global Form continues, 0:40:42.280 --> 0:40:44.839 this is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and. 0:40:44.800 --> 0:40:47.760 I'm Tim Staneveek. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Business 0:40:47.760 --> 0:40:49.480 Week Daily coming up after this. 0:40:53.400 --> 0:40:57.200 You are listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily Podcast. Catch 0:40:57.280 --> 0:41:00.920 us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm. Listen 0:41:00.960 --> 0:41:04.560 on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, 0:41:04.680 --> 0:41:07.560 or watch us live on YouTube plenty. 0:41:07.560 --> 0:41:09.400 Ahead on our second hour of the weekend edition of 0:41:09.400 --> 0:41:13.000 Bloomberg Business Week, we are highlighting conversations from this past 0:41:13.040 --> 0:41:15.840 week at the Bloomberg Philanthropy's Global Form held in New 0:41:15.920 --> 0:41:19.759 York City. Those conversations include a former UN Climate High 0:41:19.840 --> 0:41:24.480 Level champion on mobilizing stronger and more ambitious climate actions 0:41:24.680 --> 0:41:26.000 amid a US pullback. 0:41:26.360 --> 0:41:29.799 Plus how Canada is tackling the challenges and opportunities in 0:41:29.840 --> 0:41:31.600 sustainable economic development. 0:41:31.760 --> 0:41:33.759 First up this hour. As you know, more than one 0:41:33.840 --> 0:41:37.000 hundred and forty world leaders and senior officials and delegations 0:41:37.000 --> 0:41:39.680 were in town this past week for the United Nations 0:41:39.719 --> 0:41:40.600 General Assembly. 0:41:41.080 --> 0:41:44.280 Among them was Pedro Sanchez, the Prime Minister of Spain. 0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:47.479 He sat down for a conversation with Bloomberg News editor 0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:51.320 in chief John Micklethwaite, and their conversation touched on everything 0:41:51.360 --> 0:41:55.120 from Donald Trump, Spain's housing crisis, and yes, his re 0:41:55.200 --> 0:41:56.040 election efforts. 0:41:56.480 --> 0:41:59.279 Prime Minister Spain, thank you for talking to Bloomberg. It's 0:41:59.280 --> 0:42:02.760 a pleasure to have. It's a pleasure I just looked. 0:42:02.800 --> 0:42:05.239 Out of all Europe's leaders, you are the one who 0:42:05.280 --> 0:42:10.680 seems most prepared to disagree with President Trump. You champion 0:42:10.760 --> 0:42:15.960 the cause of recognizing Palestine, You pushed against the five 0:42:15.960 --> 0:42:20.240 percent limit on defense spending, also been very close to China. 0:42:21.080 --> 0:42:23.400 I mean, when you heard his speech yesterday, did you 0:42:23.520 --> 0:42:26.200 which seemed to depict Europe as a kind of hellhole? 0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:28.160 Did you think that was Do you think that was 0:42:28.200 --> 0:42:28.759 aimed at you. 0:42:29.239 --> 0:42:35.440 Well, I think I'm respectfully disagree with President trump statement 0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:39.520 because you know, he took migration and climate change, as 0:42:40.719 --> 0:42:43.239 I would say, the major challenges. 0:42:44.280 --> 0:42:46.520 That we have to fight against for and I. 0:42:46.400 --> 0:42:49.000 Said, well, look, if you took, the experience of Spain 0:42:49.440 --> 0:42:54.360 is the contrary. So thanks to claim to these green policies, 0:42:54.760 --> 0:43:00.200 we have dropped the electricity prices since twenty seventeen till 0:43:00.280 --> 0:43:06.200 now by fifty percent, so that enables us to gain competitiveness, 0:43:06.680 --> 0:43:10.880 and thanks to that we are witnessing this extraordinary outcome 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:14.440 of the economic growth in Spain. We represent thirty percent 0:43:14.480 --> 0:43:17.440 of the total economic growth of the European Union. And 0:43:17.480 --> 0:43:21.600 when it comes to migration, in the last seven years 0:43:22.040 --> 0:43:25.880 we have received two million migration migrants, while at the 0:43:25.920 --> 0:43:29.399 same time we have dropped by forty percent the unemployment rate. 0:43:29.840 --> 0:43:30.839 So only all. 0:43:30.840 --> 0:43:34.040 What I'm trying to say is that green transition and 0:43:34.080 --> 0:43:39.440 migration when it comes on regular basis, are positive for 0:43:39.560 --> 0:43:42.200 the economic development of a country. 0:43:42.480 --> 0:43:45.560 Do you think your fellow leaders in Europe could be 0:43:45.640 --> 0:43:48.000 braver about making those comments. 0:43:48.160 --> 0:43:49.480 I think I think that we. 0:43:50.920 --> 0:43:55.479 Need to keep Transatlantic bond and to strengthen that transonenting bond. 0:43:56.080 --> 0:43:58.480 It is in the true that we need to combine 0:43:58.520 --> 0:44:03.520 it with other policies such as, for instance, trade diversification. 0:44:03.640 --> 0:44:06.759 That is why we are we've been very vocal in 0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:11.080 reaching this agreement between the European Union and AMERICASUR, which 0:44:11.400 --> 0:44:13.960 it would be definitely a game changer in. 0:44:15.000 --> 0:44:17.440 Our economic ties with other regions of the world. 0:44:17.719 --> 0:44:19.680 And second, what we do, what we need to do 0:44:19.800 --> 0:44:22.759 within the European Union is to do our homework, as 0:44:23.280 --> 0:44:28.520 the former central banker Madadraghi always remind us, and that 0:44:28.640 --> 0:44:31.279 means that we need to deep in single market, that 0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:34.279 we need to review our competition policy in order to 0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:38.600 scale up a big companies in Europe and try to 0:44:38.640 --> 0:44:42.520 be you know, as good as competitive as a global 0:44:42.560 --> 0:44:47.160 corporation are in the US and other parts of the world. 0:44:47.239 --> 0:44:49.680 It's very interesting though. You look at what's happened. Your 0:44:49.719 --> 0:44:52.400 economy has grown very well two point seven percent. You 0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:54.960 look at what's happening in other countries on the periphery, 0:44:55.520 --> 0:44:58.279 like Greece, there is a very interesting thing. A few 0:44:58.360 --> 0:45:00.560 years ago we were used to saying the referee is 0:45:00.560 --> 0:45:03.920 the problem. The core is great. Now it's the other 0:45:03.960 --> 0:45:08.319 way around. France, Germany, Britain barely growing at all. Do 0:45:08.360 --> 0:45:10.200 you think it is now the center of Europe that 0:45:10.320 --> 0:45:12.160 is the problem in the economy. 0:45:12.120 --> 0:45:12.799 No, not at all. 0:45:12.920 --> 0:45:17.000 I mean Germany is a big country, big economy, also France, 0:45:17.080 --> 0:45:22.600 and we always expect a positive, let's say, dynamic in 0:45:22.640 --> 0:45:25.960 their economies. But it isn't it true that from the 0:45:26.000 --> 0:45:29.480 south we can contribute to the economic growth of the 0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:34.000 European Union. So for instance, when you see that sixty 0:45:34.080 --> 0:45:40.440 percent of the electricity generation in Spain comes from renewable sources, 0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:45.279 that means that we have a potentiality that we can 0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:48.320 contribute to the autonomous strategic autonomy. 0:45:48.920 --> 0:45:50.640 Is exposing that, don't you to France? 0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:55.760 Yeah, well, okay, we need to interconnect better our greeds, 0:45:56.280 --> 0:46:00.560 but we are we're trying to convince our friends in 0:46:00.600 --> 0:46:03.799 France to do so. So only know what I'm trying 0:46:03.840 --> 0:46:06.200 to say is that if you see the economic figures 0:46:06.239 --> 0:46:10.200 of the self in Europe, especially Spain, that represent an 0:46:10.200 --> 0:46:14.040 as said before, thirty percent of the total economic outcome 0:46:14.080 --> 0:46:18.000 of economic outcome of the European Union, that means that 0:46:18.040 --> 0:46:22.680 we have achieved many reforms that were demanded by the 0:46:22.719 --> 0:46:26.800 European Commission over the last years so we have achieved 0:46:26.800 --> 0:46:32.160 to reform our labor market, our patient system, our educational system, 0:46:32.360 --> 0:46:36.319 and also our energy policy and digitalization, along with the 0:46:36.360 --> 0:46:41.200 contribution of migration. So it is true that these pillars 0:46:41.800 --> 0:46:47.920 also show that the economic background or pillars of Spain 0:46:48.000 --> 0:46:51.520 are quite solid if you compared to previous periods such 0:46:51.560 --> 0:46:53.640 as the one before the financial crisis. 0:46:53.719 --> 0:46:55.839 And also your selfish question from the point of view 0:46:55.880 --> 0:46:59.279 all the foreign investors looking at this, many people want 0:46:59.280 --> 0:47:01.280 to invest in space for all the reasons you said, 0:47:01.320 --> 0:47:04.840 But you want to introduce one hundred percent tax on 0:47:04.920 --> 0:47:06.480 them if they want to buy a house there a 0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:07.080 second time? 0:47:07.520 --> 0:47:08.560 Not at all, not at all. 0:47:08.640 --> 0:47:11.399 What we what we need to face is a real 0:47:11.480 --> 0:47:15.160 challenge that I think that across Europe and also in 0:47:14.560 --> 0:47:18.279 in England, in the UK you're suffering, especially the youth, 0:47:18.320 --> 0:47:21.799 but not on the youth, which is the lack of 0:47:22.520 --> 0:47:27.759 or the impossibility to access to a house or to 0:47:27.880 --> 0:47:30.839 emancipate in the case of our youth. What we did 0:47:30.960 --> 0:47:35.279 is for all British people or European people that want 0:47:35.280 --> 0:47:38.880 to buy a house for living, they won't pay taxes. 0:47:39.280 --> 0:47:42.000 The fact. Yeah, but this is the point. 0:47:42.239 --> 0:47:45.680 We we need also to understand that we need to 0:47:45.719 --> 0:47:48.400 solve a problem of housing that we have in Spain. 0:47:48.719 --> 0:47:52.600 But all you know, if you see now the figures 0:47:53.120 --> 0:47:57.200 of a real estate sector, and this is how we 0:47:57.239 --> 0:48:02.919 are speaking. The process of construction in Spain is quite amazing. Nowadays. 0:48:03.200 --> 0:48:09.319 We have increased by sixty three percent construction of how 0:48:09.560 --> 0:48:14.840 let's say, public housing, whilst the private sector has increased 0:48:15.200 --> 0:48:17.960 like thirteen percent during the last year. 0:48:18.360 --> 0:48:21.600 I'll a bit about the relationship to the economy and politics. 0:48:21.600 --> 0:48:23.239 The economy seems to be going very well for you. 0:48:23.760 --> 0:48:26.960 In politics, it's harder your party is behind the party 0:48:27.000 --> 0:48:30.120 to popular We've also got Vox coming up this much 0:48:30.120 --> 0:48:34.080 more right wing outfits, and then the current polls you 0:48:34.120 --> 0:48:37.920 would lose if the election. What do you think the 0:48:37.960 --> 0:48:40.359 problem is? You've got a good economy, unlike most other 0:48:40.440 --> 0:48:44.200 European prime ministers, and yet you're still behind POSA polls. 0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:48.799 I mean, of course you have to look into it. 0:48:49.200 --> 0:48:50.000 You have to see. 0:48:50.239 --> 0:48:54.160 What I am defending is that, unfortunately we're seeing not 0:48:54.200 --> 0:48:57.640 only in Spain but across Europe a political collapse of 0:48:57.760 --> 0:49:01.840 the center rights traditional parties, which, by the way, it 0:49:02.080 --> 0:49:07.759 started after the financial crisis with the failure of governments 0:49:08.400 --> 0:49:14.960 with all this rhetoric of austerity UH, banking UH and 0:49:15.239 --> 0:49:18.880 the financial rescue that we had to pay with taxes 0:49:19.360 --> 0:49:22.920 all around Europe. And what you see now from the 0:49:22.960 --> 0:49:26.040 center right is that they are copying not only the 0:49:26.080 --> 0:49:29.080 way of doing politics of fire right, but also the contents. 0:49:29.480 --> 0:49:33.880 So you see now that they are like identifying migration 0:49:34.080 --> 0:49:36.160 with insecurity, which is a fake. 0:49:36.760 --> 0:49:37.560 It is not true. 0:49:38.200 --> 0:49:40.759 And and by the way, as I said before, when 0:49:40.800 --> 0:49:42.920 when you when when you see the figures in Spain, 0:49:44.040 --> 0:49:46.640 you can see that we had a we we have 0:49:46.719 --> 0:49:49.080 the contribution of migration, but at the same time we're 0:49:49.080 --> 0:49:54.919 reducing unemployment rates in Spain, and there are sectors such 0:49:54.920 --> 0:49:59.799 as construction, agro industry, or social services or tourism which 0:50:00.080 --> 0:50:04.400 Spain are quite important. We're up to twenty thirty percent 0:50:04.480 --> 0:50:07.880 of the total workers comes from different countries. 0:50:08.360 --> 0:50:09.040 And not Spain. 0:50:09.480 --> 0:50:13.960 So what we need to do is to face that 0:50:14.040 --> 0:50:16.799 we need migration. But for that migration, what we need 0:50:16.840 --> 0:50:20.799 to open is a path of regular migration. And this 0:50:20.840 --> 0:50:23.280 is what we are doing with many countries in Latin America, 0:50:23.360 --> 0:50:26.239 also with the US administration, with the previous administration, will 0:50:26.280 --> 0:50:27.720 reach a very interesting. 0:50:27.800 --> 0:50:28.719 Program in order to. 0:50:30.640 --> 0:50:35.839 Have this circular migration coming from the US and of 0:50:35.880 --> 0:50:41.279 course some countries in North Africa, but in all the 0:50:41.360 --> 0:50:45.440 contribution of migration to the economic growth in Spain is 0:50:45.600 --> 0:50:46.600 quite quite positive. 0:50:46.760 --> 0:50:48.680 As if you're you're brightening for that fight. 0:50:48.800 --> 0:50:51.879 So will you will definitely lead the Socialists in twenty 0:50:51.960 --> 0:50:53.080 twenty seven into the election? 0:50:53.680 --> 0:50:54.799 Yeah, I will do it for sure. 0:50:54.840 --> 0:50:56.800 This is something that I have already spoken with my 0:50:56.920 --> 0:50:59.360 family and with by party and if they allow me, 0:50:59.719 --> 0:51:03.279 I'm I'm confident that we can repeat a majority and 0:51:03.960 --> 0:51:07.799 to keep the work ahead. Not But let me add 0:51:08.040 --> 0:51:11.560 coming back to migration, that the dilemma that all Western 0:51:11.640 --> 0:51:17.560 societies we're facing is whether we open up and grow 0:51:18.640 --> 0:51:20.960 or we close off and drink. 0:51:21.560 --> 0:51:25.160 This is this This is the real dilemma that we 0:51:25.200 --> 0:51:25.719 need to face. 0:51:26.640 --> 0:51:29.920 So the challenge that we have within the European societies 0:51:30.120 --> 0:51:32.480 is how do we integrate this migration. 0:51:32.680 --> 0:51:34.719 So you think it's easier in Spain because you get 0:51:34.719 --> 0:51:37.360 a lot of people from Latin America where everyone speaks 0:51:37.360 --> 0:51:39.320 the same language. That's that's at least part of the 0:51:39.440 --> 0:51:40.640 argument why you might. 0:51:40.440 --> 0:51:41.000 Have been better. 0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:45.640 So when you listen to some central right parties and 0:51:45.920 --> 0:51:48.600 the far right there saying well, we we need to 0:51:48.640 --> 0:51:52.520 expel all these migrants come into our Okay, so what 0:51:52.600 --> 0:52:00.080 we do with demographics, because either you have Natali do 0:52:00.120 --> 0:52:05.360 you say family policies plus migration, but they don't propose 0:52:05.440 --> 0:52:11.160 anything in these two policies, no migrants and less welfare 0:52:11.200 --> 0:52:15.880 state and therefore less family policies. Uh, and that means 0:52:16.560 --> 0:52:23.480 uh social social services, wealth, healthcare and social security and 0:52:23.520 --> 0:52:26.239 so on and as well. So what I'm trying to 0:52:26.239 --> 0:52:31.680 say is that if we don't have this contribution of migration, 0:52:31.840 --> 0:52:34.440 but we will face in the coming years in Europe 0:52:35.200 --> 0:52:37.760 is that we have anest technicians we don't, we won't 0:52:37.800 --> 0:52:41.799 have the capacity to growth and therefore there would be 0:52:42.800 --> 0:52:46.000 more cuts in our welfare state. So so this is 0:52:46.080 --> 0:52:48.120 this is something that we need to explain to our 0:52:48.160 --> 0:52:57.000 citizens that if we articulate a positive migration policy, that 0:52:57.040 --> 0:52:58.799 would be for the good of the Europeans and the 0:52:58.800 --> 0:53:02.120 Western societies. So, just to give you a figure, ninety 0:53:02.120 --> 0:53:06.000 four percent of the total migrants that are leaving nowadays 0:53:06.000 --> 0:53:13.000 in Spain came from regular let's say systems, and they 0:53:13.040 --> 0:53:17.680 are they came on legal basis. So we're talking about 0:53:17.680 --> 0:53:22.960 only six percent and this is the reality. So I 0:53:22.960 --> 0:53:25.640 think that we need to fight and to give a positive, 0:53:26.200 --> 0:53:30.839 let's say, message about the contribution of migration to our 0:53:30.880 --> 0:53:32.640 societies and to our prosperity. 0:53:33.160 --> 0:53:36.240 That was Pedro Sanchez, Prime Minister of Spain, with Bloomberg 0:53:36.280 --> 0:53:38.000 News Editor in chief John Micklethwaite. 0:53:38.160 --> 0:53:40.600 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week, coming up more on 0:53:40.640 --> 0:53:43.520 global efforts to stem climate change, with someone who has 0:53:43.560 --> 0:53:46.080 been a key player when it comes to United Nations 0:53:46.160 --> 0:53:47.040 climate efforts. 0:53:47.480 --> 0:53:48.680 This is Bloomberg. 0:53:50.320 --> 0:53:54.160 This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live 0:53:54.239 --> 0:53:57.160 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car 0:53:57.239 --> 0:54:00.000 Play and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. 0:54:00.160 --> 0:54:02.920 You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 0:54:02.960 --> 0:54:07.080 flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:54:08.400 --> 0:54:12.040 Another unofficial stated in nineteen eighty nine that within a decade, 0:54:12.200 --> 0:54:15.800 entire nations could be wiped off the map by global 0:54:15.840 --> 0:54:19.800 warming not happening. You know, it used to be global cooling. 0:54:19.880 --> 0:54:22.000 Now they could just call it a climate change, because 0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:24.839 that way they can't miss. It's the greatest con job 0:54:25.200 --> 0:54:27.080 ever perpetrated on the world. 0:54:27.160 --> 0:54:28.239 In my opinion, If. 0:54:28.120 --> 0:54:31.000 You don't get away from this green scam. Your country 0:54:31.080 --> 0:54:31.800 is going to fail. 0:54:32.160 --> 0:54:34.120 That was President Trump and is addressed to the United 0:54:34.239 --> 0:54:37.120 Nations this past week. As we mentioned earlier, the President 0:54:37.200 --> 0:54:40.320 was very critical of climate change. Now keep in mind, 0:54:40.600 --> 0:54:42.960 not all global leaders in town felt that way. We 0:54:43.000 --> 0:54:45.200 talked to a lot of them, as many attended more 0:54:45.239 --> 0:54:48.960 than one thousand events about actions and investments in renewable 0:54:49.000 --> 0:54:52.160 sources of energy and ways to tackle the climate crisis. 0:54:52.640 --> 0:54:55.960 One of those was Mack Mood Mohill Dean. He's UN 0:54:56.040 --> 0:54:58.680 Climate Change High Level Champion for COP twenty seven that 0:54:58.760 --> 0:55:01.120 was held back in twenty twenty two. He's also a 0:55:01.160 --> 0:55:04.440 former World Bank Senior Vice President and former Minister of 0:55:04.440 --> 0:55:08.800 Investment of Egypt. Macmoud joined us from the Bloomberg Philanthropiece 0:55:08.880 --> 0:55:09.640 Global Forum. 0:55:10.239 --> 0:55:13.799 Well, I see it around the world, especially in many 0:55:13.840 --> 0:55:16.880 of the emerging markets countries of the Global South, in 0:55:16.960 --> 0:55:23.000 Europe and Latin America. It's moving, progressing despite the political 0:55:23.400 --> 0:55:29.880 statements and political hurdles because becoming today more affordable comparing 0:55:30.320 --> 0:55:33.840 what you can produce of electricity from renewables compared to 0:55:33.880 --> 0:55:34.760 fossil fuel. 0:55:34.840 --> 0:55:37.319 So it makes sense just to compare the cost. 0:55:37.560 --> 0:55:42.440 So people are progressing towards decarbonization and investing renewables because 0:55:42.440 --> 0:55:45.120 it's much more affordable and cost effective. 0:55:45.160 --> 0:55:47.440 So the market is the market is making this decision. 0:55:47.560 --> 0:55:52.600 Market absolutely, And a few weeks back what gives us 0:55:52.680 --> 0:55:56.680 hope based on some interesting big read article from the 0:55:56.680 --> 0:56:01.120 Financial Times that what gives us hope is technology, technology innovation. 0:56:01.600 --> 0:56:05.640 What we were producing at multiple of costs ten years ago. 0:56:05.840 --> 0:56:07.919 Each time we tried to cite a figure, we get 0:56:07.920 --> 0:56:11.880 corrected because of the lowering of cost. And when it 0:56:11.920 --> 0:56:15.560 comes to electricity, am I went, they're saying that about 0:56:15.560 --> 0:56:18.400 the cost of adaptation. So, as you know, climate change 0:56:18.400 --> 0:56:22.440 had those two wings, the mitigation part or investing in 0:56:22.480 --> 0:56:26.200 the organization renewables that's becoming more affordable. But when it 0:56:26.200 --> 0:56:31.120 comes to adapting countries, societies and economies to the climate 0:56:31.200 --> 0:56:34.279 change and its risk, here we need to mobilize more 0:56:34.320 --> 0:56:38.279 public finance because the cost return is not really as 0:56:38.280 --> 0:56:43.800 straightforward when it comes to commercial market basis compared to decarbonization. 0:56:44.440 --> 0:56:46.400 There, I want to ask you, So there was President 0:56:46.440 --> 0:56:49.239 Trump an hour address to the you and General Assembly 0:56:49.920 --> 0:56:53.279 out there were there, you were there, and some very 0:56:53.320 --> 0:56:55.360 strong words when it came to climate change. I'm curious 0:56:55.360 --> 0:56:59.719 when you have conversations with members of the administration. Are 0:56:59.760 --> 0:57:04.000 they as opposed in terms of US strategy what they 0:57:04.000 --> 0:57:08.160 talk about US strategy being opposed or well not supportive 0:57:08.719 --> 0:57:11.640 policies to stem climate change. 0:57:11.719 --> 0:57:16.440 Members of the US Administration follow their leader and their. 0:57:16.560 --> 0:57:18.760 I was curious back to our conversations. 0:57:18.800 --> 0:57:23.000 But we see as well some practical pragmatic statements, like 0:57:23.040 --> 0:57:27.640 a recent statement that came out comparing investing in renewables 0:57:27.680 --> 0:57:30.880 in the form of solar versus wind farms. So there 0:57:31.000 --> 0:57:33.400 was a kind of a statement that tells us, well, 0:57:33.440 --> 0:57:36.120 you can invest better in solar, and then there is 0:57:36.160 --> 0:57:38.880 a great deal of investments as well in innovation when 0:57:38.880 --> 0:57:42.240 it comes to battery storage and all of that. So 0:57:42.280 --> 0:57:46.560 we see some opportunistic approaches and more pragmatic approaches, but 0:57:46.720 --> 0:57:50.400 not really to oppose these strong statements coming from their boss. 0:57:50.520 --> 0:57:52.200 Can I ask you in terms of cop this year, 0:57:52.240 --> 0:57:56.840 I'm just curious how Copple work this year in such 0:57:56.880 --> 0:58:00.840 an active kind of climate hostile that we see from 0:58:00.880 --> 0:58:04.000 the United States. Well, is that a problem not having? 0:58:04.800 --> 0:58:08.120 Of course, of course it is for the biggest economy 0:58:08.120 --> 0:58:11.720 in the world, with the great deal of dynamism inventions, 0:58:11.760 --> 0:58:14.400 innovation that could really help not just the United States, 0:58:14.480 --> 0:58:16.160 but the rest of the world. We are missing a lot. 0:58:16.400 --> 0:58:20.400 But having said that, two things. Finance for Development Conference 0:58:20.440 --> 0:58:22.600 in Seville that took place a few weeks ago. It 0:58:22.840 --> 0:58:26.080 was fantastic, it was successful, it delivered. It was all 0:58:26.120 --> 0:58:28.800 the world minus one, So that gives hope. The second 0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:33.240 thing the preparation for COP thirty when I was in 0:58:33.320 --> 0:58:38.160 Reo and their Climate Action Week, great deal of dynamics participation, 0:58:38.400 --> 0:58:41.800 not just at the leader's level, but community, private sector, 0:58:42.440 --> 0:58:43.280 civil society. 0:58:43.360 --> 0:58:46.840 So it is happening. So again, the world minus one. 0:58:47.160 --> 0:58:49.600 You've spent a lot of time thinking about emerging and 0:58:49.680 --> 0:58:53.960 developing economies, and here in the US, with the dismantling 0:58:54.000 --> 0:58:57.800 of USAID, with the pullback in foreign aid, this narrative 0:58:57.840 --> 0:59:01.040 has seemed to emerge, which is basically like, why should 0:59:01.080 --> 0:59:04.040 we be sending money to countries outside of the United 0:59:04.120 --> 0:59:07.040 States when there are people here in the US that 0:59:07.120 --> 0:59:08.960 need that money. What would you say to that? 0:59:09.040 --> 0:59:10.600 Well, there is an evolution of thinking. 0:59:10.680 --> 0:59:12.720 At the beginning of start of the aid there was 0:59:12.760 --> 0:59:16.560 the issue of consideration of others, and there's some sort 0:59:16.600 --> 0:59:19.320 of altruistic behavior that we need to help the rest 0:59:19.360 --> 0:59:23.840 of the world. The countries on the rich economies, and 0:59:23.880 --> 0:59:27.479 there was some elements as well of compensation, especially from 0:59:27.600 --> 0:59:31.840 the colonial powers that well, we exploited the resources of 0:59:31.880 --> 0:59:34.480 these poor countries, so let's help them. And then it 0:59:34.480 --> 0:59:38.120 came as well issues related let's do the help because 0:59:38.200 --> 0:59:41.280 we will benefit more, even if a kind of self 0:59:41.320 --> 0:59:45.040 interest will like stability, we like bigger markets, well, like 0:59:45.080 --> 0:59:47.760 people to follow the same kind of standards, and we 0:59:47.840 --> 0:59:51.920 need to eliminate force migration. So there was a kind 0:59:51.960 --> 0:59:57.280 of mix of ideas between positive and negative. But then 0:59:57.480 --> 0:59:59.760 we are in a new world now and I think 0:59:59.840 --> 1:00:03.400 it very much the end of official development assistance. 1:00:02.880 --> 1:00:04.920 As we know it. You do, yes, of course, not 1:00:05.080 --> 1:00:07.040 just from USID, and it's a. 1:00:09.000 --> 1:00:12.400 Disappearance suddenly, but actually from other sources as well. 1:00:12.520 --> 1:00:14.920 So what does the world look like, particularly the developing 1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:16.000 world in this new era. 1:00:16.280 --> 1:00:19.440 It depends really where you are addressing the issue. For 1:00:19.840 --> 1:00:22.680 there are many countries, including my brothers. I'm an African 1:00:22.680 --> 1:00:27.360 and Egyptian, my brothers from South Sudan for instance, or Burundi, 1:00:27.400 --> 1:00:30.720 they are more dependent on external help and support when 1:00:30.760 --> 1:00:34.560 it comes to their budgets. Other countries would use aid 1:00:34.680 --> 1:00:38.040 as a kind of cathalytic help to help and bring 1:00:38.080 --> 1:00:41.720 in the private sector elements of innovation, blended finance, so 1:00:41.760 --> 1:00:45.840 they will survive without aid. That other countries that are 1:00:45.840 --> 1:00:49.600 more dependent, especially in humanitarian work human development, they need 1:00:49.640 --> 1:00:53.240 really to get new sources, including from philanthropies. 1:00:53.320 --> 1:00:56.240 Would you argue that there is a soft power element 1:00:56.280 --> 1:00:59.000 still to this as well, that there is a benefit 1:00:59.720 --> 1:01:02.440 for and look, I think this was an example used 1:01:02.440 --> 1:01:05.200 in New York Times article months ago. I've seen that 1:01:05.240 --> 1:01:07.520 one like, you know, a bag of rice shows up, 1:01:07.880 --> 1:01:10.560 it has an American flag on it. Yeah, somebody in 1:01:10.640 --> 1:01:13.160 some far flung place sees that and says I have 1:01:13.200 --> 1:01:16.560 a different view of America and an American As a result, it. 1:01:16.640 --> 1:01:22.040 Helped promoting American values American culture, so positive to the 1:01:22.160 --> 1:01:24.840 United States in this case. But you can really see 1:01:25.040 --> 1:01:27.880 aid in different ways as well from the recipient countries. 1:01:28.240 --> 1:01:31.320 If aid is basically prioritizing what the nationals and the 1:01:31.320 --> 1:01:34.400 communities are pushing for and hoping for, this is a 1:01:34.400 --> 1:01:37.840 good thing. If it is a catalyst for transformation, it's 1:01:37.880 --> 1:01:41.680 a great thing. But if it is crowding out public finance, 1:01:41.760 --> 1:01:45.120 if it is crowding out private sector, then you have 1:01:45.200 --> 1:01:49.080 other considerations, So there could be some sort of blessings 1:01:49.120 --> 1:01:53.560 in disguise when we are addressing these kind of changes. 1:01:53.720 --> 1:01:55.840 China has been in the past, certainly very aggressive when 1:01:55.840 --> 1:01:59.080 it comes to providing funding, especially for the developing world. 1:01:59.400 --> 1:02:02.800 Just do wonder, in an absence of other developed nations 1:02:03.280 --> 1:02:06.760 helping out the developing world, is China step up its efforts? 1:02:06.760 --> 1:02:07.000 Is there? 1:02:07.000 --> 1:02:08.000 And is that a problem? 1:02:08.080 --> 1:02:10.480 Yes, Like the old rules of nature and physics, when 1:02:10.520 --> 1:02:12.720 there is a gap, there will be a vacuum. 1:02:12.720 --> 1:02:14.520 We find somebody trying to help you. 1:02:14.560 --> 1:02:17.080 We see the role of China's rising, the role of 1:02:17.480 --> 1:02:21.080 many of the middle powers rising. The role of regional 1:02:21.120 --> 1:02:24.680 powers is rising as well, so and the role of 1:02:25.480 --> 1:02:29.480 foundations philanthropies, not just the big names that we're familiar with, 1:02:29.520 --> 1:02:32.680 but some of the smaller ones coming from the regions. 1:02:32.800 --> 1:02:37.920 And this comes associated with benefits including soft power. The 1:02:37.960 --> 1:02:41.040 issue that you mentioned or you cannot really draw a 1:02:41.080 --> 1:02:45.160 line now between what's aid and what's promotion for investment 1:02:45.280 --> 1:02:48.880 or promotion for experts. So there will be some serious 1:02:49.600 --> 1:02:52.920 spillovers given this kind of sudden cut. 1:02:53.880 --> 1:02:56.000 Are there is the money getting to the emerging world 1:02:56.400 --> 1:02:58.720 that needs it. In terms of certainly when it comes 1:02:58.760 --> 1:03:01.560 to climate initiatives, they are so vulnerable. 1:03:01.720 --> 1:03:04.600 No, no, no, the development finance system and the climate 1:03:04.640 --> 1:03:07.600 finance system. I described it before we were preparing for 1:03:07.760 --> 1:03:13.160 a COP twenty seven and after that has been insufficient 1:03:13.160 --> 1:03:16.240 because there is a widening gap, Inefficient because it takes 1:03:16.240 --> 1:03:20.320 forever until you mobilize funds, and unfair because of costs, 1:03:20.640 --> 1:03:23.120 and we still suffer from the same problems. Now well, 1:03:23.800 --> 1:03:27.840 perhaps better public private partnerships, with the support of philanthropies, 1:03:28.040 --> 1:03:29.840 we can mobilize funds in a better way. 1:03:30.360 --> 1:03:33.200 That was Matt Mood, Mohil Dean, you and Climate Change 1:03:33.240 --> 1:03:35.760 high Level Champion for COP twenty seven. That was back 1:03:35.760 --> 1:03:36.600 in twenty twenty two. 1:03:37.000 --> 1:03:38.880 You know, I think what was interesting Tim, as we 1:03:38.920 --> 1:03:41.640 did these conversations with global leaders, and you know, we 1:03:41.680 --> 1:03:45.000 talk about climate so much on Bloomberg Business weekdaily. But 1:03:45.080 --> 1:03:49.360 I think what was fascinating is that global leaders they're 1:03:49.360 --> 1:03:51.200 moving ahead with their initiatives. I felt like we heard 1:03:51.240 --> 1:03:54.560 that very much from the European contingencies. But I also 1:03:54.600 --> 1:03:57.960 know in having some offline conversations with companies that they 1:03:58.000 --> 1:04:02.120 too are not thinking necessary in presidential terms when it 1:04:02.120 --> 1:04:05.600 comes to strategy and policies and about their impact on 1:04:05.640 --> 1:04:08.680 the climate, and so they're thinking much more longer terms. 1:04:08.720 --> 1:04:11.800 So interesting to hear that the spend and the activity 1:04:11.880 --> 1:04:13.280 is still moving on, and a lot of it has 1:04:13.320 --> 1:04:15.800 to do with I feel like. Another message this past 1:04:15.840 --> 1:04:19.800 week was the idea that renewables they make sense now 1:04:19.920 --> 1:04:23.200 right in terms of financially what they cost or how 1:04:23.240 --> 1:04:24.000 to go about them. 1:04:24.040 --> 1:04:25.800 So we heard that over and over again, and that 1:04:25.840 --> 1:04:29.280 was pretty surprising to me because what as I understand it, 1:04:29.840 --> 1:04:32.480 the investment in these renewables in the beginning can be 1:04:32.560 --> 1:04:36.120 pretty high. But some of the European leaders, Carol told 1:04:36.200 --> 1:04:39.160 us that, hey, this is actually the market taking care 1:04:39.200 --> 1:04:42.280 of itself here. These energy sources for us at least 1:04:42.720 --> 1:04:45.560 are on par or cheaper than what we used to get. 1:04:45.640 --> 1:04:47.960 So this is the way we are moving forward. The 1:04:48.080 --> 1:04:50.640 question that I have for the United States is are 1:04:50.680 --> 1:04:53.280 we going to be left behind? If the vision at 1:04:53.280 --> 1:04:56.760 the top changes, Let's say the next administration wants to 1:04:57.160 --> 1:05:01.880 invest in net zero or wants to invest in renewables, 1:05:02.000 --> 1:05:04.439 are we going to be left behind? Certainly, the idea 1:05:04.480 --> 1:05:06.520 of nuclear is something that President Trump has talked about 1:05:06.560 --> 1:05:09.360 a lot, but up till now, Carol, we know that 1:05:09.400 --> 1:05:12.840 these projects take a very very long time, right, very 1:05:12.880 --> 1:05:16.640 expensive upfront, and the US has not built very many 1:05:16.840 --> 1:05:18.959 new reactors in the last few years. 1:05:19.160 --> 1:05:20.760 And we're going to find out how important it is 1:05:20.800 --> 1:05:24.760 to have the government support, whether it's regulatory, business initiatives, 1:05:24.760 --> 1:05:28.840 so that the private sector can go about and developing 1:05:29.240 --> 1:05:31.720 all of this. It brings to mind there's an incredible 1:05:31.760 --> 1:05:35.120 story on the Bloomberg this past week and exclusive, and 1:05:35.160 --> 1:05:39.960 it talked about venture capitalists from Western firms are starting 1:05:40.000 --> 1:05:42.760 to say out loud what they've suspected for a while, 1:05:42.800 --> 1:05:45.440 and that is China's dominance has left key sectors in 1:05:45.480 --> 1:05:49.600 the West uninvestable. And they visited factories, they spoke with 1:05:49.600 --> 1:05:53.400 startup investors in China, and what's interesting is the VC's 1:05:53.400 --> 1:05:57.840 plan to avoid allocating funds to Western startups that cannot 1:05:58.320 --> 1:06:02.040 compete with Chinese peers, with some already halting investments in 1:06:02.280 --> 1:06:06.440 Western battery cell manufacturers and looking to collaborate with Chinese firms. 1:06:06.440 --> 1:06:10.360 But I think about things like solar panels and renewables 1:06:10.680 --> 1:06:14.920 where China has been spending evs right big time, and 1:06:14.960 --> 1:06:17.800 many would say are definitely ahead of the US here. 1:06:17.960 --> 1:06:21.160 Yeah, don't forget the reality is China is the world's 1:06:21.200 --> 1:06:23.480 largest source of carbon emissions, but at the same time 1:06:23.520 --> 1:06:26.080 it's also the strongest motor guiding the planet to a 1:06:26.080 --> 1:06:29.120 low carbon future. So the relationship that the United States 1:06:29.120 --> 1:06:32.320 has with China right now, the fact that we need 1:06:32.400 --> 1:06:35.440 certain materials or certain things in order to have renewables 1:06:35.680 --> 1:06:38.240 in the world come from China. So Yeah, this is 1:06:38.240 --> 1:06:41.680 a great story on the Bloomberg Terminal, written by Alistair Marsh. 1:06:41.680 --> 1:06:43.080 Do you check it out if you have their time. 1:06:43.280 --> 1:06:46.520 Dill ahead on Bloomberg BusinessWeek, the CEO of Canada's Bilateral 1:06:46.600 --> 1:06:50.400 Development Financial Institution. As our coverage from this week's Bloomberg 1:06:50.400 --> 1:06:52.040 Philanthropy's Global Form. 1:06:51.920 --> 1:06:54.200 Continues, This is Bloomberg. 1:07:00.720 --> 1:07:04.560 You are listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily Podcast. Catch 1:07:04.640 --> 1:07:07.840 us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern 1:07:08.000 --> 1:07:11.040 Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg 1:07:11.120 --> 1:07:14.320 Business app, or watch us live on YouTube. 1:07:14.720 --> 1:07:17.960 Carol Masser along with Tim stenoviek Rookier at Bloomberg Philanthropy's 1:07:18.000 --> 1:07:20.720 Global Form, We're going to continue with some great conversations 1:07:20.720 --> 1:07:21.240 from this event. 1:07:21.320 --> 1:07:21.520 Yeah. 1:07:21.520 --> 1:07:23.680 The event brings together heads of state business leaders to 1:07:23.720 --> 1:07:26.720 address the world's most urgent challenges and opportunities. Among those 1:07:26.800 --> 1:07:31.000 challenges and opportunities is sustainable economic development, and that's where 1:07:31.040 --> 1:07:34.080 Lori Kerr comes in. She's the chief executive officer of 1:07:34.080 --> 1:07:38.160 FINDEV Canada. It's Canada's bilateral development of finance institution. She 1:07:38.240 --> 1:07:39.960 joins us on set here at the Plaza Hotel. How 1:07:40.000 --> 1:07:40.280 are you. 1:07:40.520 --> 1:07:42.320 I'm great, It's really great to be here. Thanks so 1:07:42.400 --> 1:07:43.000 much for having me. 1:07:43.040 --> 1:07:44.400 Thanks gut gad to have you here. I feel like 1:07:44.440 --> 1:07:46.160 our conversation this year would be a lot different than 1:07:46.160 --> 1:07:48.280 our conversation last year if we were to have that. 1:07:48.360 --> 1:07:51.560 We're going to get to that in a minute. You 1:07:51.560 --> 1:07:55.000 invest in Africa, Latin America, the Caribbean in a world 1:07:55.040 --> 1:07:57.360 that many would argue as turning inward. How do you 1:07:57.400 --> 1:07:59.840 convince Canadians that what you're doing is in their best 1:07:59.840 --> 1:08:00.400 time interest? 1:08:00.880 --> 1:08:03.280 Well, I mean, if I quote some of the recent 1:08:05.360 --> 1:08:07.880 speakings of the of our own Prime minister, he certainly 1:08:07.920 --> 1:08:13.360 recognizes that when developing countries prosper, Canada prospers as well. 1:08:13.880 --> 1:08:16.560 It's a time to really lean into global partnerships to 1:08:16.880 --> 1:08:19.400 build resilience in global economic growth. 1:08:21.040 --> 1:08:23.240 How do you prioritize how to do that? Because I'm 1:08:23.280 --> 1:08:25.479 sure there's a lot of folks saying we need. 1:08:25.320 --> 1:08:28.800 Help, absolutely and quite honestly, like the demand is limitless 1:08:28.800 --> 1:08:32.800 for what findev Canada offers and other bilateral development finance institutions. 1:08:32.840 --> 1:08:34.439 So how we approach our. 1:08:34.360 --> 1:08:36.680 Financing and investment decisions is, of course, we have to 1:08:36.680 --> 1:08:38.920 have commercial sustainability, that's what we're going to We want 1:08:38.960 --> 1:08:41.559 to have vibrant market and we also look through three 1:08:41.600 --> 1:08:43.920 impact lenses. We have three impact lenses through which we 1:08:43.960 --> 1:08:47.639 work that informs all of our financing and investment decisions. 1:08:47.880 --> 1:08:51.960 Climate and nature action, gender equality, and local market development. 1:08:52.080 --> 1:08:54.600 Has to check on all of those in order for 1:08:54.600 --> 1:08:55.639 it to happen, or not. 1:08:55.560 --> 1:08:58.839 All of them, because different types of investments in financing 1:08:58.920 --> 1:09:02.960 opportunities will address one or more of them. We obviously, 1:09:03.000 --> 1:09:05.679 you know, look to try and have positive contribution across 1:09:05.720 --> 1:09:08.640 each of those, but not everything ticks every box, so 1:09:08.680 --> 1:09:09.120 to speak. 1:09:09.360 --> 1:09:13.160 I feel like in this administration, in the environment that 1:09:13.160 --> 1:09:15.519 we're in the United States, those those boxes would not 1:09:15.600 --> 1:09:19.240 exist under this current administration. Does that? How do you 1:09:19.240 --> 1:09:19.840 think about that? 1:09:20.160 --> 1:09:22.960 Well, it's again, it's a real wonderful opportunity for Canada's 1:09:23.040 --> 1:09:26.599 to show global leadership and again, when developing countries prosper, 1:09:26.720 --> 1:09:30.000 Canada prospers, and the world prospers. So it's an opportunity 1:09:30.040 --> 1:09:32.560 for us to continue with looking at having impact in 1:09:32.600 --> 1:09:33.519 the markets that we serve. 1:09:33.600 --> 1:09:35.640 So with the US pulling back on foreign aid, with 1:09:35.680 --> 1:09:39.840 the US dismantling US aid, which certainly is controversial here 1:09:39.960 --> 1:09:43.160 in this country, as I'm sure you're aware, does it 1:09:43.240 --> 1:09:46.200 mean more of an opportunity for Canada or net net? 1:09:46.200 --> 1:09:48.040 Does it hurt Canada and does it hurt the world 1:09:48.120 --> 1:09:48.760 in the long run? 1:09:49.120 --> 1:09:53.719 Well, I think certainly there's a lot of hugely, hugely 1:09:53.800 --> 1:09:57.800 negative impacts from a huge amount of the age a 1:09:58.160 --> 1:10:00.639 bathtub sort of a plug being pulled, so to speak. 1:10:01.439 --> 1:10:03.479 But we have to look at that as an opportunity, right, 1:10:03.479 --> 1:10:06.080 as I mentioned when we just started that, you know, 1:10:06.240 --> 1:10:10.120 demand for development finance, you know, is steep, but now 1:10:10.120 --> 1:10:12.599 it's really infinite because the US has traditionally played such 1:10:12.600 --> 1:10:16.120 a very big role in development data and in development finance. 1:10:16.160 --> 1:10:20.200 So in a way, it's a tremendous opportunity for countries 1:10:20.280 --> 1:10:22.439 like Canada and like munded countries to lean in. 1:10:22.640 --> 1:10:24.720 Laura, I'm always interested in the specifics of things, so 1:10:24.840 --> 1:10:27.160 talked to us about some things that where there have 1:10:27.320 --> 1:10:29.479 been investments made and what's the outcome. 1:10:29.640 --> 1:10:29.840 Yeah. 1:10:29.880 --> 1:10:32.439 Absolutely, So let me give you one example. So we 1:10:32.439 --> 1:10:34.799 were established in twenty eighteen, so we're the youngest bilateral 1:10:34.840 --> 1:10:38.200 development finance institution and one of our very first investments 1:10:38.920 --> 1:10:40.920 is in a company called Climate Investor one, and they're 1:10:40.920 --> 1:10:45.400 supporting energy transition across Africa, across Asia and across Latin America. 1:10:45.560 --> 1:10:47.639 So in twenty eighteen we made a twenty million dollar 1:10:47.640 --> 1:10:50.920 equity investment and now they've been able to raise eight 1:10:51.040 --> 1:10:54.400 hundred million dollars. Eighty percent of that is dispersed across 1:10:54.439 --> 1:10:58.519 sixteen renewable energy projects. Six of them are already in operation, 1:10:59.000 --> 1:11:03.320 so that's renewable energy on grids, that diversification of energy matrices, 1:11:03.360 --> 1:11:07.559 that's supporting local economic and local ecodonomic growth, so really 1:11:07.600 --> 1:11:10.759 having a positive impact. So they've been a really great 1:11:11.280 --> 1:11:15.200 example of how using public resources through development finance can 1:11:15.240 --> 1:11:18.920 really mobilize private capital and show that commercial viability and 1:11:19.120 --> 1:11:21.599 positive impact in climate can go hand in hand. 1:11:22.000 --> 1:11:26.200 We have been speaking about the potential economic effects of 1:11:26.520 --> 1:11:29.240 pullback and aid by the United States and other countries 1:11:29.520 --> 1:11:33.880 filling that gap, but as we just heard Just moments 1:11:33.920 --> 1:11:37.720 ago we were speaking with Mamud Mohielden who basically said 1:11:38.000 --> 1:11:43.080 the era of developing countries being helped by other countries 1:11:43.720 --> 1:11:46.479 is over in his view. Do you agree with him? 1:11:46.680 --> 1:11:51.599 Interesting? So what I would say, it's definitely a repositioning, right, 1:11:51.640 --> 1:11:54.160 I think we've for the last you know, fifteen twenty years, 1:11:54.200 --> 1:11:57.760 it's been an era and the era is changing for sure, 1:11:57.800 --> 1:12:01.080 So there's disruption in this system. Again, I do think 1:12:01.080 --> 1:12:03.479 that there are many countries that are still looking to 1:12:03.520 --> 1:12:05.479 play their part, believe that there is a role like 1:12:05.520 --> 1:12:08.840 Canada believes there is a role for Canada play in development. 1:12:08.960 --> 1:12:12.280 So it's a reordering it, it's a reawakening and it's 1:12:12.320 --> 1:12:14.439 much more about partnership I think going forward. 1:12:14.720 --> 1:12:17.080 Do you think about it from an immigration perspective at all? 1:12:17.600 --> 1:12:22.360 The idea that if you are able to improve conditions 1:12:22.920 --> 1:12:25.599 in other countries, the people who live in those countries 1:12:25.680 --> 1:12:27.080 will not feel forced migration. 1:12:27.680 --> 1:12:28.160 Absolutely. 1:12:28.240 --> 1:12:30.639 I think you know, Canada is differently situated than many 1:12:30.680 --> 1:12:34.360 of our European friends and partners in terms of the 1:12:34.400 --> 1:12:36.920 immigration issue. But certainly you know, one of the value 1:12:36.920 --> 1:12:40.120 added of supporting local market growth and local market development 1:12:40.160 --> 1:12:43.200 through the private sector is providing jobs. When you provide jobs, 1:12:43.439 --> 1:12:45.479 you provide incomes. When you provide incomes, you have a 1:12:45.479 --> 1:12:47.559 growing middle class. When you have a growing middle class, 1:12:47.640 --> 1:12:51.680 you actually provide export opportunities for countries like Canada. When 1:12:51.680 --> 1:12:54.639 you provide good jobs, people are happy to stay at 1:12:54.640 --> 1:12:57.760 home and work and thrive in those local economies. So 1:12:57.800 --> 1:13:02.439 there's it's a reinforcing benefit, let's say, of supporting emerging markets. 1:13:02.560 --> 1:13:05.519 What's been the biggest impact on your world as a 1:13:05.560 --> 1:13:08.480 result of what I would say is a conflicted relationship 1:13:08.479 --> 1:13:10.680 between the US and Canada now, which is kind of 1:13:10.840 --> 1:13:13.679 amazing to kind of get your head around. Anybody who's 1:13:14.160 --> 1:13:17.320 you know, steadied trade or history. Who to think, But 1:13:17.360 --> 1:13:18.960 this is where we are a little bit today. But 1:13:19.000 --> 1:13:21.000 what has been the impact on your world because of it? 1:13:21.200 --> 1:13:21.479 Yeah? 1:13:21.479 --> 1:13:24.160 So in the development finance world, it's again it's been 1:13:24.160 --> 1:13:26.479 a huge disruption. I mean, the US has been such 1:13:26.479 --> 1:13:29.599 an enormous player in development finance, as I said earlier, 1:13:29.920 --> 1:13:32.680 so we're all having to reposition ourselves. It's providing a 1:13:32.720 --> 1:13:37.320 lot more opportunity and an impetus really for collaboration. 1:13:37.120 --> 1:13:38.559 Amongst the DFI community. 1:13:38.600 --> 1:13:41.679 So the bilateral DFIs we're a humble, but we're really 1:13:41.760 --> 1:13:44.400 a mighty bunch and we really need to be supercharged. 1:13:44.920 --> 1:13:47.720 We co finance and we co invest sort of as 1:13:47.720 --> 1:13:49.880 a matter of course, we're again very collegial. 1:13:49.920 --> 1:13:51.519 Well who else is stepping up with you? And you 1:13:51.560 --> 1:13:53.760 feel like really kind of all right, So if the 1:13:53.880 --> 1:13:56.240 US isn't going to be so active in it, what 1:13:56.400 --> 1:13:58.880 other you know, country or so on and so forth 1:13:58.920 --> 1:14:00.360 that are working more closely with you. 1:14:00.640 --> 1:14:03.280 Yeah, So we work a lot with so the bilateral 1:14:03.360 --> 1:14:06.240 so for example, with PROPARCO in France, with a British 1:14:06.240 --> 1:14:11.320 International Invest in the UK, with FMO in the Netherlands, 1:14:11.880 --> 1:14:14.880 with DG in Germany. So I mean, there's a number 1:14:14.880 --> 1:14:18.120 of the European development finance institutions that we work with. 1:14:18.640 --> 1:14:21.040 We also do co finance with the IFC, and in fact, 1:14:21.320 --> 1:14:23.040 just this week we're really happy to be closing one 1:14:23.120 --> 1:14:26.640 hundred and twenty five million dollars worth of transactions to 1:14:27.120 --> 1:14:31.920 two banks in Central America, Banko Industrial in Guatemalas we're 1:14:31.920 --> 1:14:34.680 providing a seventy five million dollar loan. Guatemala is one 1:14:34.720 --> 1:14:38.880 of the most scientific and vulnerable countries in Central America. 1:14:39.080 --> 1:14:42.280 Use of proceeds entirely for climate finance, so climate smart 1:14:42.320 --> 1:14:44.920 agriculture and green buildings. And then the other transaction is 1:14:44.960 --> 1:14:49.479 fifty million dollars to Bengal Payis in Honduras and that's 1:14:49.520 --> 1:14:52.320 one of the poorest countries in Central America. There, we're 1:14:52.320 --> 1:14:56.240 also supporting climate finance, renewable energy, water and sanitation, as 1:14:56.240 --> 1:14:59.280 well as small and medium sized enterprises, micro small and 1:14:59.280 --> 1:15:02.200 medium sized enterprice and women owned and women led microansmalls. 1:15:02.240 --> 1:15:04.479 Because I mean, I always think about all the micro 1:15:04.600 --> 1:15:07.360 lending and some stuff at the gap you do for women, right, 1:15:07.439 --> 1:15:11.000 and the impact that it has on a family in particular, 1:15:11.400 --> 1:15:11.840 How do you. 1:15:11.760 --> 1:15:14.519 Make sure that the money is used efficiently? And you know, 1:15:14.560 --> 1:15:17.240 there were so many stories at least with us money 1:15:17.240 --> 1:15:20.280 that went out where you'd find that, okay, well, grants 1:15:20.280 --> 1:15:23.080 that went to certain organizations weren't necessarily used in the 1:15:23.080 --> 1:15:26.000 most efficient way or even used for what they were 1:15:26.000 --> 1:15:27.559 supposed to be used for. How do you make sure 1:15:27.560 --> 1:15:29.200 that there's not sort of a. 1:15:32.000 --> 1:15:32.360 Fraud. 1:15:33.000 --> 1:15:34.680 Yeah, I didn't want to say fraud. I just want 1:15:34.720 --> 1:15:37.240 to say there's somebody who sort of takes more than 1:15:37.280 --> 1:15:37.960 they're supposed to. 1:15:38.200 --> 1:15:41.800 Sure, So, I mean we're in the commercial financing business, right, 1:15:41.840 --> 1:15:43.960 we provide financing and investment. We have a higher risk 1:15:44.000 --> 1:15:46.400 appetite than commercial capital, but you know, again we want 1:15:46.400 --> 1:15:49.160 to provide, we want to support commercial viable solutions. Part 1:15:49.160 --> 1:15:52.240 of the impact framework that we as development finance institutions 1:15:52.240 --> 1:15:53.720 bring to the fore is sort of the rigor and 1:15:53.800 --> 1:15:57.000 vigor around the impact and the reporting. So you know, 1:15:57.040 --> 1:16:00.439 we do go in and we have the measures in 1:16:00.479 --> 1:16:03.360 the metrics to actually be on the ground and make 1:16:03.400 --> 1:16:07.439 sure that we're getting the information back, the data back, 1:16:07.479 --> 1:16:10.360 we go out and verify that. So again it's the 1:16:11.080 --> 1:16:16.240 depth around measurement, impact, evaluation and reporting that makes us 1:16:16.280 --> 1:16:18.840 thrive and allows us to actually have impacts in the 1:16:18.880 --> 1:16:19.879 markets that we serve. 1:16:19.880 --> 1:16:23.200 Our thanks to Lori Kerr, CEO of FINDEV Canada, it's 1:16:23.240 --> 1:16:26.080 Canada's bilateral development financed institution. 1:16:26.320 --> 1:16:28.400 Hey, before we wrap up, and I highly recommend you 1:16:28.479 --> 1:16:31.320 check out a bunch of stories at the Bloomberg and 1:16:31.360 --> 1:16:34.160 at Bloomberg dot com because our whole team, our global 1:16:34.160 --> 1:16:36.840 team was in town and reporting out everything that was 1:16:36.840 --> 1:16:39.320 coming from the U in General Assembly and Climate Week 1:16:40.080 --> 1:16:42.400 NYC and one other stories we wanted to bring to 1:16:42.400 --> 1:16:44.960 your attention because when we talk about climate change in 1:16:45.000 --> 1:16:47.080 the environment, you got to think about China. It's the 1:16:47.080 --> 1:16:51.000 world's largest polluter, and it did set a target to 1:16:51.000 --> 1:16:55.120 cut economy wide net greenhouse gas emissions by seven to 1:16:55.160 --> 1:16:58.439 ten percent over the next decade. It's a strategy that's 1:16:58.479 --> 1:17:01.000 seen as too modest with the nation on a path 1:17:01.240 --> 1:17:04.439 to net zero and galvanize global climate action. When you 1:17:04.479 --> 1:17:07.320 look at the big countries, the big polluters, like what 1:17:07.360 --> 1:17:08.759 they do, it matters. 1:17:09.000 --> 1:17:12.960 The promised reduction from China's peak levels follows President Chijin 1:17:13.040 --> 1:17:16.000 Pink's pledge that was back in April to pursue more 1:17:16.080 --> 1:17:19.720 stringent curbs and to set policies that cover the entire economy, 1:17:20.040 --> 1:17:23.600 addressing pollutants beyond carbon dioxide. Now, Carol, it follows a 1:17:23.680 --> 1:17:27.960 tradition of Chinese leaders who've set relatively modest climate targets 1:17:28.000 --> 1:17:29.200 only to surpass them later. 1:17:29.720 --> 1:17:32.960 Yeah, and you know, so it's interesting, right, and we've 1:17:33.000 --> 1:17:35.559 got to just think about the world and the connections here, 1:17:35.840 --> 1:17:38.800 I will say. The European Union's Climate commissioner did say 1:17:38.800 --> 1:17:41.360 that China's latest goals were met with criticism, calling the 1:17:41.439 --> 1:17:45.559 level of ambition clearly disappointing and saying it makes reaching 1:17:45.560 --> 1:17:48.080 the world's climate goals significantly more challenging. 1:17:48.200 --> 1:17:49.720 Well, I mean it's a big deal that China's talking 1:17:49.720 --> 1:17:50.040 about that. 1:17:50.080 --> 1:17:52.559 Well, that's my other big tech takeaway with everything going 1:17:52.600 --> 1:17:54.920 on in the world, and I kind of compared to 1:17:55.000 --> 1:17:57.559 last year where we're head of a big US election 1:17:57.800 --> 1:18:02.559 and conversations were different. At climate change was talked about 1:18:02.600 --> 1:18:04.600 a lot. And that wraps up our weekend edition of 1:18:04.600 --> 1:18:07.920 Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Of course, our highlights 1:18:08.160 --> 1:18:11.200 from this past week's Bloomberg Philanthropy is Global form. You 1:18:11.240 --> 1:18:14.360 can catch all the conversations from the event on the 1:18:14.400 --> 1:18:16.360 Bloomberg and at Bloomberg dot com. Thank you so much 1:18:16.400 --> 1:18:17.080 for joining us. 1:18:17.320 --> 1:18:20.080 Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week daily Monday 1:18:20.080 --> 1:18:22.000 through Friday. It starts at two pm Wall Street Time 1:18:22.040 --> 1:18:25.320 on Bloomberg TV, Bloomberg Radio, and on Sirius XM Channel 1:18:25.360 --> 1:18:27.599 one twenty one. You can also listen to us an Apple 1:18:27.520 --> 1:18:29.400 Car Play and Android Auto Free in the Apple app 1:18:29.400 --> 1:18:30.840 Store or on Google Play. 1:18:30.920 --> 1:18:33.200 You can also watch our daily broadcast on YouTube just 1:18:33.200 --> 1:18:37.160 search Bloomberg Podcasts, or simulcast on Bloomberg Originals available at 1:18:37.160 --> 1:18:42.040 Bloomberg dot com, Slash Originals and streaming platforms including Roku, Amazon, fireTV, 1:18:42.120 --> 1:18:43.679 Samsung TV Plus and more. 1:18:43.920 --> 1:18:47.439 Find our Bloomberg Businessweekdaily Podcast at Bloomberg dot com, Apple, 1:18:47.520 --> 1:18:50.240 or wherever you get your podcasts, and the latest edition 1:18:50.280 --> 1:18:52.799 of the magazine. It's available on newsstands now at Bloomberg 1:18:52.800 --> 1:18:55.400 dot com and always on the Bloomberg Terminal. I'm Tim 1:18:55.439 --> 1:18:56.960 Stinebeck and I'm Carol Masser. 1:18:57.080 --> 1:18:59.439 Have a good and safe weekend. Take care of Mother Earth. 1:19:00.600 --> 1:19:05.960 This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, 1:19:06.080 --> 1:19:09.799 and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday 1:19:09.840 --> 1:19:13.879 afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 1:19:13.920 --> 1:19:17.800 the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. 1:19:18.040 --> 1:19:20.839 You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube 1:19:21.040 --> 1:19:23.200 and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.