WEBVTT - Fewer Debates, More Dunk Tanks (Priya Parker) 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:03.880 Part of citizenship and part of gathering with a small 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:08.360 g is that all of us, whether we're guests or hosts, 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:12.600 are participating, one beat at a time, in whatever might 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:15.560 be happening. And all I'm saying is, wake up and 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:17.560 decide what you want to attend and what you don't 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:20.400 want to attend. And when you're thinking about being a host, 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:23.560 think very deeply about what it is you're bringing together, 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:29.840 because whatever you're doing will spread. Welcome to How to 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:33.680 Citizen with Baritune Day, a podcast that reimagine citizen as 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:37.120 a verb, not a legal status. This season is all 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:40.320 about how we practice democracy, what can we get rid of, 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:42.800 what can we invent, and how do we change the 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.519 culture of democracy itself. We're leaving the theoretical clouds and 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:49.800 hit in the ground with inspiring examples of people and 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:53.400 institutions that are showing us new ways to govern ourselves. 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:03.480 Over the years, I've attended several Democratic National conventions I'm 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:08.080 talking Boston, North Carolina, Philadelphia, and Denver. But the best one, 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.440 and really one of the most memorable political gatherings I've attended, 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:17.040 it happened online during the COVID lockdown of twenty twenty now, 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:21.080 at every major political convention, there's this ceremonial counting of 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.959 the delegates where people from different states stand up with 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.240 their little flags on the floor of the convention hall 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.000 and say something like, the people of the Great State 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.360 of Hawaii nominate YadA, YadA, YadA YadA. But we obviously 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:35.479 couldn't do that in twenty twenty. Instead of cutting it, though, 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:38.520 the organizers asked people to film themselves doing the roll 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.679 call in front of something iconic that represented their home. 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:47.040 It's time to begin our virtual trip around America. Alaska, 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.400 we must elect the president who respect our voices, protect 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:54.200 our waters, and address climate changed. Alaska cast seven voices 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:58.760 Bernie Sanders and troll voices for the next President Joe Biden. 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.520 North Carolina. I've been doing this for a long time, 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:06.200 so let me just be playing black people, especially black women, 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.679 on the backbone of this party. And if we don't 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:13.320 show up, Democrats don't get elected. North Carolina cast thirty 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:17.680 nine votes for Bernie Sanders and eighty three votes for 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:22.680 the next President of the United States, Joe Biden. Maine 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:26.400 My American Dream. I'm living in a twenty five acre 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.400 organic farm on the lake, a roadside farm stand and 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:32.760 a bedding breakfast. My husband and our aren corporate tycoons. 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:36.000 We just want to make an honestly the US Virgin Islands. 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:38.280 We bring in a greatance from the Virgin Islands of 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:43.160 the United to six. We were young, Alexander was raised, 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:46.560 were Castle A thirteen voots for Joseph our Biden. Yeah, 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.640 this digital parade of delegates was a beautiful reflection of 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.160 who we are because we got to see each other 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.960 in our context. And I remember saying to anyone who 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:02.560 would listen, that is the mirror of America. I want 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:06.200 to see that looks like us. It felt like true storytelling, 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.320 not just political pandering. Of course, there's always going to 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:12.359 be some political pandering, but I think they produced the 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.639 hell out of that gathering, which had the potential feel disconnected, awkward, 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:24.480 and useless, and instead left me emotional and motivated. I 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.680 think a really fundamental premise of our democracy is that 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.240 we come together to figure things out, and we do 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.000 it in a way that's non violent, that serves as 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.200 many people as possible as best as possible, so we 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:38.880 can all move forward. And I think it's pretty non 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:42.600 controversial to say we're not doing great at that in 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:47.040 many levels of our society, the way Congress operates is whack. 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:51.880 Local school board meetings they're violent or nearly violent, and 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.000 online discourse. I mean, I don't even have to explain 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.520 that one do I from the political to the petty, 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.520 which is sometimes the same thing. We have proven that 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:05.280 we're out of practice at coming together meaningfully, effectively, or 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.080 at all, and it's weakening our ability to self governor 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:10.880 when we don't know how to listen or have a 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:13.560 shared purpose when we gather, when we don't know how 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:17.200 to interact with each other, it shows up everywhere. Think 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:19.320 of it like this. If we don't know how to 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.040 host a meaningful birthday party, how are we going to 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:27.000 handle a council meeting. Look, we have a gathering crisis, 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.719 and my friend Prea Parker, she's dedicated her life to 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.560 addressing it. In her book The Art of Gathering, How 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.240 We Meet and Why It Matters, Prea sharees practical guidance 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:41.120 for creating relevance, meaning, and connection when we come together. 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:45.440 Rethinking and reimagining the ways we spend time together. It's 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.560 essential to improving the way we practice democracy and to 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:52.320 the way we citizen and while our previous guest, Tim Phillips, 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.520 gave us a sense of how dangerous they're growing political 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.200 divide is in our country. Priya is giving us the 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.880 tools to start addressing that tension and disconnection in our 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:06.760 own communities. She's a facilitator and strategic advisor and liked him. 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:10.440 She's trained in the field of conflict resolution. She has 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.880 been the last twenty years guiding leaders and groups through 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:19.360 complicated conversations about community identity and vision in moments of transition. 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.960 I first met Priya and her husband, the writer An 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.080 and girded us before they were husband and wife. Back 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.560 in Paris over a decade ago, Annan was speaking at 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:36.680 a museum and I was there as part of a 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:41.679 delegation of young civic minded Americans touring through Europe. Anna 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.640 Impriya were the only other young people in the room, 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:49.839 so we were all like yo Americans, young people, brown people, Yeah. Hey. 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.520 It was super exciting and a sea of really old 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:57.600 art loving white French faces. They ended up joining our tour. 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.960 The three of us traveled together a lot more from there, 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:03.480 and we quickly realized we had a lot in common. 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.400 During that time, I had the opportunity to attend many 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.800 of their gatherings from neighborhood walking tours. Preya became known 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.400 for to their wedding in India, where by the way, 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.320 I did a great stand up comedy set. It was 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.160 super funny. There's no tapes. You're just gonna have to 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:25.039 trust me anyway. I can't count the number of times 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.960 I've had dinner at their place, met fascinating folks, and 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:34.479 left feeling full both intellectually and gastro Intestinally, so Priya 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.560 has been practicing what she preaches even before most of 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.120 us knew she was preaching it. As I think on 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:44.040 this entire season, Priya is answering a question posed by 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.600 an earlier guest, John Alexander, who asked, how do we 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:51.920 invoke citizenship as practice? And I think Priya answers with 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.040 some really valuable tangible tools for us to get out 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:57.800 of our rut and try new things and challenge old 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:07.520 assumptions about how we show up citizen Together. After the Break, 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:11.600 Priya Parker on how gatherings are about people, not logistics. 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.440 Pria Parker is a facilitator, acclaimed author of the Art 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.080 of Gathering, How We Meet and Why It Matters, and 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.960 executive producer and host of the New York Times podcast 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:26.360 Together Apart, we have been a part of each other's 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.480 lives for over a decade, and I got to see 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:33.680 her becoming the queen of gathering through a small series 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.440 of intimate friend events that she did in New York 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.080 City called I Am Here Day. And this was an 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:43.080 intentional exploration of a neighborhood all day long and was 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.320 mind blowing. It really changed my relationship with other people 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.679 that I knew, It changed my relationship with New York City. 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.960 She's had a huge positive impact on my life professionally 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.800 and personally, and it is a thrill to have her here. 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:02.200 Welcome Priya Parker, Thank you there today. What a treat, 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.720 What a thrill. You are the master of many things, 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.560 but one of them is openings and introductions, and I 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:10.960 feel really touched. I'm so happy to be with you. Yes, 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:13.720 so so Pa. Look, you're somebody who really knows how 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:15.560 to host. Let me know if you have notes for 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:21.840 me later, taking copious notes. But your work has moved 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.920 help people move away from this idea of gatherings as 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:29.920 exercises in logistics, things to coordinate, to putting the focus 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.720 on relationships. Can you just talk about that important shift 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:38.280 from the logistics focus to the relationship focus. I, as 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:44.080 you know, am a group conflict resolution facilitator. That's my training, 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.760 that's still my day job. And so much of what 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:51.240 I learned with my peers as we were young Green 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:57.680 facilitators is we were trained to basically think about how 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:01.920 to bring a group of people around specific need and 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:06.280 kind of get them off their scripts. Figure out how 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.760 do you help people meaningfully connect without all having to 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.240 be the same. How do you help people meaningfully connect 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:18.920 despite sometimes because of their differences. Yeah, and so much 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:22.040 of what I was trained to do very kind of 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.960 minute by minute. How do you actually set up questions? 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:29.120 How do you set up the space so that people 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:34.400 feel protected, not so overwhelmed by a space, but also 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:39.640 not excluded. Had very little to do with what we're 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.320 taught in popular culture about what makes for example, a 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.280 good dinner party or a good baby shower, or basically 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.480 nice like silverware. Yeah, paint the onesies and then the 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.840 baby will come, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever. But this 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.760 very deep focus on stuff like I often say, if 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.320 you go to a bookstore, you walk into a library 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:01.600 and you look for a kind of like the gathering section. 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.040 You'll go and you read a lot of cookbooks, right, 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:10.360 or flower shaping skills. And it's not that those things 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.600 don't matter. They absolutely do their incredible skills on their own. 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:19.120 But over time we've conflated the shaping of things with 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:22.520 the shaping of people. And I love food as much 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.080 as the next person. I love a beautiful space as 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.880 much as the next person. But how do you basically 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.679 put people back at the center of our interactions and 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:35.800 how do you think about designing interactions that help people 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:41.720 feel like they belong but they also aren't disappearing. You 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:46.480 mentioned the goal of getting people off their scripts. Why that? 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.560 What is the danger or the risk of letting people 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:51.280 stay attached to their script and what does it mean 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.280 to knock them off of that routine? Scripts serve us 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.880 in certain ways, like we are taught how to professionally 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.439 introduce ourselves or we're taught and different cultures have different scripts. 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:02.200 I went to the University of Virginia, and I learned 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.640 very quickly that one of the first things people ask 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:06.360 you is what are you? And I had to learn 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:10.080 very quickly my answer to that question. Right, So all 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.240 of that to say is in so many of our 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.360 modern life where we're meeting people we don't necessarily know 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:20.120 this kind of corporate culture or like entrepreneurship culture of 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:25.600 like the pitch has infiltrated, friendship has infiltrated, community has 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:29.400 infiltrated dinner parties, like if you go to My husband 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.400 grew up in Europe. For some part of his life, 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:33.760 I lived in different countries because of my parents work. 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.080 If you go to most other is changing, but most 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.000 of their countries. If you have dinner, multigenerational dinner and 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.079 anyone's home, you can leave after twelve hours and you 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.240 have no idea what anyone does for a living, right, 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:47.360 it's a deeply yes. I had a direct experience of 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.960 that in Europe, this summer bonding connecting, no idea what 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:55.160 people do for work. Whereas a brunch recently in California, 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.760 I felt like the person assumed I was an investor, 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.560 you know, and we're just like in this my growth 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.240 turnets and look and we opened up these many locations 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.040 and I'm like, Hi, what's your name again? Yes, it's 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:09.920 like the self launch, right, Yeah, And so part of 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.239 a script is scripts help people know how to navigate 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:19.040 an uncertain situation. They're not bad necessarily, but part of 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.240 what we were taught in conflict resolution was that often 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:25.559 moments of authenticity and connection happened when people got off 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.320 their scripts, when they say the thing they weren't planning 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:32.040 on saying, when they're not representing their institution, when they 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:37.240 give their sprout speeches rather than their stump speeches. Those 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.000 were the moments in which all of a sudden, again, 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:44.000 as a dialogue facilitator that's trying to shift the relationship 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.000 in the room, those were the moments of light. Those 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:50.200 were the moments where people stop being a monolith. I 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:54.000 think you have developed many kind of shorthands and quick 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.240 rules for anyone to think about in terms of any 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:01.280 gathering that they're considering. You know, a birthday party, which 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.000 should be pretty simple. Can you quickly give us some 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.480 of pre as hacks on like the questions we should 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:09.720 be asking how you might prepare your own absolutely the 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.000 down on dirty everyone can just like fast forward to 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.680 this part of the podcast. Step number one. So the 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.559 first is the biggest mistake we make when we gather 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:24.200 is we assume that the purpose is obvious and shared. Oh, 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.200 I know what a birthday party is? Oh, I know 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:31.959 what a staff meeting is. Yeah. And also in so doing, 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.320 we skip actually asking what is the purpose, and we 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:38.400 get too quickly to perfecting form, which is almost the 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.880 same as focusing on the stuff. It's over the people exactly. 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.680 And so the first thing to become a more artful gatherer, 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:51.480 and I think a more artful citizen seek yes, is 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.000 to determine and to actually ask what is the need here? Yeah, 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.600 what is the need in this community at this moment? 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.560 What is the need when I'm thirty two versus forty 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.240 two versus eighty two? And who are the people in 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.240 my life that might be able to address that need 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.559 this year? And then figure out the form. Don't start 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:14.640 with logistics, And instead of asking should I throw a party? First? 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.080 Ask am I lonely? Am I board? Do I need 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.960 to shake things up a bit? Am? I kind of 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:24.960 disillusioned with my normal friend gang? Like, what is actually 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.920 it's actually the art of paying attention what is happening here? 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:32.360 And gatherings are kind of these excuses to make us 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.000 make decisions about how we spend our time and with whom. 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.440 So I'll give a simple example. Years ago, I had 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.960 a friend who turned fifty, and he said to me, 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.320 you know, most I'm not really a birthday person, like 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.320 positively or negatively. You know, it doesn't I've never worried 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:50.840 about aging. It's not a huge deal to me. But 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.320 fifties feeling a lot, and I want to do something. 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:55.920 And he kind of, he said, his wife kind of 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.120 helped him think about it. Why are you why are 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:00.800 you so anxious about this age turning the stage? And 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.760 he thought about it, and he said, I think a 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.520 lot of people in my life I've watched as they 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:13.680 turned fifty, many people basically start contracting. They take less risks, 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.600 they take, they don't move to the same cities that 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.280 they would have. And I'm kind of terrified by that. 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.400 And yet there are some people I know who, even 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:26.200 when they turned fifty or sixty or seventy, continued to expand. 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.520 What if I threw a weekend or a dinner where 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.040 I invited the people in my life who have always 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.920 represented expansion, right, So what he did, first of all, 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.280 he paused first and didn't say what form should this 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.400 birthday be? And he just paused, like the first step 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.760 of actually artful gathering is looking in. Yeah, then the 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:49.280 second thing is He then found a specific, disputable need. 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.040 It's really specific and disputed. You're only going to invite 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.320 the people who expand in your life, like what are 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.000 you going to say the people who contracts like sorry, yeah, 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:01.120 especially if you're married. Well, in part I said this earlier, 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:05.760 gatherings often force us to face ourselves. This is why 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:09.320 weddings are often sites of conflict. This is why funerals 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.120 are sites of conflict, because gathering is an act of 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.840 line drawing. What is this about? Who is this for? 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.200 And who should be here? And who should not be 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:19.360 and who should not be here? And I'll just say 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:23.000 the third tip is artful gatherers, as hosts or guests, 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:28.440 are really good at meaning making and meaning making often 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.040 at the beginning of an event or a gathering in 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:33.280 the invitation, but also when they arrive. So, just to 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.520 close the story, at the beginning of this birthday weekend, 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.000 it's birthday dinner. He dung his glass as he recalled 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.560 it to me, and he said, I realized I was 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.720 terrified turning fifty, and I realized what I just told 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.520 you earlier. And each of you sitting around this table 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:52.680 to me have been examples and beacons of adventure and 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:55.960 expansion and people who I always look to when I 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.080 think about the decisions I want to make. What would 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.160 they do? Yeah, as I turn fifty, I want to 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:05.080 thank you for showing me that there's many ways to 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:07.800 do this, and I want to ask you to keep 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:12.760 me honest in those moments where I want to contract. Yeah, wow, 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:18.679 welcome thirty seconds. Yeah, he's changed the whole thing. He 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.280 switched here. I feel changed just hearing it, because there 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:23.560 it's not just that he had a purpose. He made 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:25.480 it clear to them and then they feel a sense 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.320 of ownership of and honoring and you feel, yeah, like 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.080 you chose me not just to be at your party, yes, 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.240 but for this thing that I do for you, which 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.240 is its own gift, the acknowledgement of the gifts of others. 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.680 He moved. He moved it from the category that many 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.119 of us can fall into of using them. Yeah. Right, 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.640 gatherings can also be kind of transactional. I have an 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.199 art museum launched get bodies in the room, right, like 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:53.560 we gotta get and who's got a lot of followers. 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:59.320 So he moved from using them. It's a very subtle 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:03.600 shift to making them of use in the deepest sense 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.919 of that word. I often say gathering as culture making. 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.040 They are going to remember that for the rest of 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:11.919 their lives. They are going to remember, Wow, that's the 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.800 way he thinks of me when they start thinking about decisions. 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.720 Am I contracting or am I expanding? Do I choose? Right? 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:21.160 This is like the way we gather reflects our norms, 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:26.040 our beliefs, and so often positive or negative. Like Trump 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:32.560 rallies are great gatherings. They are full of purpose and 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:39.119 specificity and boundary and emotion and ritual and symbol and 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.560 their lines like watching shows like the Circus and watching 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:46.000 the lines outside of a Trump rally versus outside of 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:51.280 a Democratic contender rally, like there is a fundamentally different 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:56.800 ritualistic experience going on. Gatherings are morally neutral, yeah, and 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.520 they spread values. Whatever the values are, they're spreading them. 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.440 How does that work if the gathering itself has kind 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.080 of harm associated with it, or if if it can 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.399 lead to harm. Can you just clarify where morality sits 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.480 in terms of not all gatherings are made equal in 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:14.959 terms of the impact they can have on folks. The 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.760 tool is morally neutral and it can be good used 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:24.840 for generative health, and it can be used for deep harm. 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.840 Hitler is one of the greatest gatherers in history. M Yeah, 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.160 so it's a technology, technology and sense too. And I'm 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.639 saying this in part because people often associate like, oh, 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:40.520 gathering sweets, Oh gatherings fun, Oh gatherings word, and in 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:44.440 part because it's like, don't be fooled, right, don't be 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:47.919 fooled by the rocks that I got, Enny, And this 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.080 is exactly it's like when you can see we're actually friends, 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:55.720 my terrible terrible, like you know, nineteen ninety three. References 0:19:55.720 --> 0:20:00.520 are coming out so often either we under value what 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:04.800 this is, Oh, it's just a baby shower. Well, because 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.399 somebody thought it was a sweet idea at some point, 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:09.800 and they're trying to literally figure out what to do 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.280 in terms of the activity. Decided it could be fun 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:16.359 to focus on the moment of gender revelation. Literally, if 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:20.480 you look at this history of this new phenomenon, it 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.280 was like, how do I feel this time? Yeah, where 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:25.879 is there an unexpected outcome? What would be interesting to 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:29.320 this group? And then over time, in some places it's 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:34.159 been co opted or has become problematic to assume or 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.760 even to think like, why is all of the things 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:38.800 that we're doing over the course of these two hours 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:43.840 focusing on revealing their gender. Yeah, And if I look 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:47.480 at that example, you're celebrating a life, You're welcoming someone 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:51.000 into the family, Like is your primary purpose really the 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:55.520 information of communicating the gender of the child? Rarely starts 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.960 like that. That did not start on a need based 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:02.840 analysis exactly, and it became focused on the form. It 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:07.080 became colors and all this other distress. And so often 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:09.080 I love the example of a baby shower in part 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:11.680 because it's that kind of Trojan horse where it's like, oh, 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:15.760 the sweet little thing, and actually, like these are moments 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:19.879 of norm formation and so slightly shifting that, you know. 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:21.920 I have a friend who, for her she and her 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:25.879 partner did not want to have a baby shower, traditionally minded, 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:28.320 but she realized she did have a need. And as 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.400 she paused, she thought, Okay, I have these two needs. 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:35.320 One I'm terrified of labor, and two, neither me or 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:39.119 my partner want to raise our children mostly how we 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.480 saw our parents raise us. What do we do? And 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:46.440 so they ended up having two gatherings. One was she 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:50.399 gathered six female friends had been through the process of birth, 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:52.879 and they created a little ritual. She asked one of 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:56.359 our friends to do it, and the friend invited all 0:21:56.400 --> 0:22:00.080 of us to bring a quality and a story of 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:07.320 our friend that we believed would also serve her in labor. Yeah, courage, resilience, humor, 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:09.320 remember this time when we were blah blah blah, and 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:11.560 you like, I give to you humor. And then the 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:14.639 second thing they did is they invited who are we inviting? Right? 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:17.480 What is it a political act? Why are women the 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:20.240 only people invited to baby showers? If we're expecting and 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:23.919 asking for men to also co parent, where do the 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.200 roles start from the very beginning, before the kid's even here? 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:30.960 Who actually needs this knowledge? So they invited both men 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:34.479 and women to share a story from their life of 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:39.760 one way that they were raised that they loved and 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:41.880 one thing in their own life that they would want 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:44.720 to let go of. And they had this beautiful dinner 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.199 and everyone understood the purpose and they could choose if 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:49.080 they wanted to come and share that kind of thing 0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:52.080 or not. You can totally not come. But again, it's 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:54.520 like movings to being used to being of use, and 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:57.560 every other person at that dinner table. I promise you 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:01.200 was listening very closely. Huh, how might I want to 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:03.639 raise my kids? What are the norms? What are they expect? 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:06.439 What language are we using to talk about this? Yeah? 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.400 And part of what I part of citizenship and part 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:12.360 of gathering with a small G, is that all of us, 0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:17.879 whether we're guests or hosts, are participating, one beat at 0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:20.720 a time in whatever might be happening. And all I'm 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:23.600 saying is wake up and decide what you want to 0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:25.880 attend and what you don't want to attend, and show 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:27.600 up in the ways you want to. When you're a guest, 0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:31.160 and when you're thinking about being a host, think very 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:34.160 deeply about what it is you're bringing together, because whatever 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:38.399 you're doing will spread. Wake up. I'm fully awake, and 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:42.720 I'm remembering. I mean, I have a big fandom for you, 0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:45.119