Speaker 1: On today's episode of Ticket to the Draft podcast, we
Speaker 1: have the edge rushers. Man, this is such a fun class.
Speaker 1: We got speed to power, we got bull rushers, we
Speaker 1: got edge guys, athletes, anybody you want. And we also
Speaker 1: have Bruce Lee in this class. It's a deep class.
Speaker 1: We love them all. We got a little bit of
Speaker 1: hate for one guy. That's a criticism, not hate. We're
Speaker 1: not haters. And then we've got five extra guys, guys
Speaker 1: that nobody in the national media is talking about, but
Speaker 1: we're talking about them here. It's for the nerds. And
Speaker 1: then we answer fan questions. It all starts right now.
Speaker 1: Welcome into the Tick of the Draft podcast. I'm Logan
Speaker 1: Paulson here with just the guy, Jason and Jason. I'm
Speaker 1: so excited today to be talking edge rushers. But before
Speaker 1: we get an edge rusher, sure you guys like and
Speaker 1: comment wherever you guys can content. We got questions we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about a little bit later. Guys left
Speaker 1: some good ones. We figured we addressed those. But in
Speaker 1: the meantime we're gonna talk some edge rusher pass rusher
Speaker 1: ball here, which is exciting. That's one of the most
Speaker 1: valuable positions in in sports at the moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, edge rusher is the most exciting class for me.
Speaker 2: It's one of the craziest athletes that are there, so
Speaker 2: it's so much fun to watch. A lot of people
Speaker 2: say corner is a crazy athletic position, and it is,
Speaker 2: but for me, the size that these guys are, the
Speaker 2: way that they move, it just shouldn't be real. And
Speaker 2: the variety of it. We have smaller guys that move
Speaker 2: pretty quick, big guys that move pretty quick, small guys
Speaker 2: that are super strong, and it's just the variety of
Speaker 2: athlete and size that you find is pretty incredible to
Speaker 2: me in the edge class. So I'm excited to dive
Speaker 2: into this there. We still just full disclosure for everyone listening.
Speaker 2: I at least I don't want to speak for you Logan.
Speaker 2: Still have a lot of guys to watch. But I
Speaker 2: went through about what is generally considered the top twenty
Speaker 2: edge rushers, and we'll be talking about obviously your top ten,
Speaker 2: so we'll hitdle on those. But as we go through
Speaker 2: Ticket to the Draft podcast and we get closer to
Speaker 2: the actual draft, we'll touch on even more guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I think that'll bet to be a
Speaker 1: lot of fun. And again, like with the edge rushers,
Speaker 1: I think from an evaluation point, it's always easier to
Speaker 1: watch them because they're in They're in the they're in
Speaker 1: the teeth of the play all the time, right, you
Speaker 1: don't have to kind of go hunt and peck and
Speaker 1: look for them like with the way you would with
Speaker 1: a dB. Right there in the film, they're they're they're
Speaker 1: doing something impactful every single play. So on like a
Speaker 1: dB where you got to kind of watch three or
Speaker 1: four games to get a feel, you can watch an
Speaker 1: edge sure in about thirty to forty snaps usually, and
Speaker 1: then you kind of couple that with like reel and
Speaker 1: kind of get a feel for how they move and
Speaker 1: what they do well. So I always like edge because
Speaker 1: they're fun, like you mentioned the freak athletes, but also
Speaker 1: they tend to be a little bit more straightforward in
Speaker 1: terms of evaluation, which picks makes our lives a lot easier,
Speaker 1: especially kind of on you know, kind of getting ready
Speaker 1: to get get in these prospects ready excuse me?
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And just so everybody knows, we see your comments,
Speaker 2: we hear your comments. We have somebody that add a
Speaker 2: question about offensive line play and something we said, you're
Speaker 2: going to answer that at the end of the show. Also,
Speaker 2: someone was asking about re viewing Gabe Taylor, who's a safety,
Speaker 2: and we'll do DBS coming up soon, but I'm ready
Speaker 2: to get into the edge rushers. And the way that
Speaker 2: I want to start that logan is by asking you
Speaker 2: a couple of questions. It's what do you look for
Speaker 2: in edge? And then I want you to clarify some
Speaker 2: terms that we'll probably be using moving forward. So when
Speaker 2: we use shorthand as a lot of scouts in the
Speaker 2: NFL as a whole uses somebody that's tuning in for
Speaker 2: the first time or just getting their toes wet in
Speaker 2: the draft and prospect evaluation process, they understand what those
Speaker 2: terms means. So let's start here. What do you look
Speaker 2: for logan in your edge rushers?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like we did the offensive line for
Speaker 1: you know, athletic traits and they're kind of to the
Speaker 1: offensive line, like her how they anchor. There's a little
Speaker 1: bit more technical hume in there that's important to understand
Speaker 1: and kind of make sure you make note of as
Speaker 1: you're going through the process. But for me edge rusher, sure, man,
Speaker 1: it's athlete all the time. Mass, it's athlete one hundred percent. Like,
Speaker 1: if you see a big, strong, athletic dude who's physical
Speaker 1: and like's contact, that's the guy that you're looking for.
Speaker 1: That's the player that you got to hone in on
Speaker 1: and again. And like we've talked unch kind of in
Speaker 1: previous show, obviously you're looking for athletic traits, but in
Speaker 1: addition to athletic trades, you're also so kind of looking
Speaker 1: for and you can't have one in isolation without the other.
Speaker 1: The redemptions we got on this list today, which I
Speaker 1: think are going to be really fun to talk about
Speaker 1: as to why maybe we're willing to look past some
Speaker 1: of the lack of either top flight athleticism or top
Speaker 1: flight production. But to me, it's it's like, you want
Speaker 1: that guy that could have played power forward in the
Speaker 1: NBA pensive end, and you want to see a certain
Speaker 1: amount of violence, a certain amount of like I'm going
Speaker 1: to use the analogy of like a dog with a ball, right,
Speaker 1: you want the guy who when you throw the ball,
Speaker 1: like he is just one thousand miles an hour, hell
Speaker 1: or high water going to go. And there's some guys
Speaker 1: in our obviously we've got the top ten, but some
Speaker 1: guys in the kind of the auxiliary five or six
Speaker 1: that we wanted to just bring up mentioned aren't in
Speaker 1: the list because they don't have that kind of urgency
Speaker 1: to their play. So urgent, athletic, physical are all things
Speaker 1: that you're looking for here. It's really this is like
Speaker 1: bare bones, like strip it down. I think it's one
Speaker 1: of the easier positions to evaluate, just because it's like
Speaker 1: you want tall, oletic dudes who are violent and care
Speaker 1: about care about ball, and then really that's what it
Speaker 1: comes down to.
Speaker 2: So let me ask you a couple of terms that
Speaker 2: we're going to use going through these guys when we
Speaker 2: describe them, and some of them may seem basic to
Speaker 2: a lot of people, but to others that are just
Speaker 2: getting into this, please bear with us. We want them
Speaker 2: to know what we're talking about. So, like the very
Speaker 2: first one is like, what is a bull rush?
Speaker 1: Yeah, bullrush is like kind of what you think about
Speaker 1: a bowl, like when it's gonna smash into another bowl,
Speaker 1: like they're going to hit each other full speed. You're
Speaker 1: kind of running if you're the defensive player, like right
Speaker 1: down the middle of the offensive lineman, and you can
Speaker 1: set that up in different ways. You can take different angles.
Speaker 1: Kind of attack the outside shoulder of the offensive lineman,
Speaker 1: put your foot in the ground and kind of of
Speaker 1: get the tackle moving before you get engaged in the
Speaker 1: bull rush. And what you want to see there is
Speaker 1: just nice tight elbows, you know, three points of contact
Speaker 1: to hand to extension, get that offensive lineman to really
Speaker 1: have to work his anchor stop his feet. And then
Speaker 1: you want to see either a bull rush that finishes
Speaker 1: at the quarterback or a bull rush to a nice
Speaker 1: transition with strong hands kind of pulling yourself through. So
Speaker 1: you want to see great hand engagement, you want to
Speaker 1: see great contact. You want to see great kind of
Speaker 1: a recklessness almost to the bull rush to get that
Speaker 1: guy off balance. And again to me, when you're talking
Speaker 1: pass rush, the best pass rushers in the NFL year
Speaker 1: on year are great, and they have the highlight reel
Speaker 1: kind of where they do the Euro step when they
Speaker 1: chop hands and they get by and you see all
Speaker 1: those BT Jordan pass rush clinics. But the best guys
Speaker 1: have elite power and because the power kind of forces
Speaker 1: the offensive lineman to stop their feet. And I think
Speaker 1: when you're looking at bull rushes like that's why it's
Speaker 1: so important to talk about these guys from a Power
Speaker 1: File standpoint is can you get the tackle to respect
Speaker 1: you running down the middle of their screws? Can you
Speaker 1: get them to stop their feet, because then I can
Speaker 1: work edges a little bit easier. I can do some
Speaker 1: of that hand fighting stuff that you know gets people
Speaker 1: Instagram famous.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about that hand fighting stuff. The thing
Speaker 2: that last year lay out to you LOTU was so
Speaker 2: good at, and it's the finesse moves. Like when we
Speaker 2: talk about finess moves, what are some of them? What
Speaker 2: does that mean? Because when we broke down on the
Speaker 2: last episode offensive line, you were saying, an offensive lineman
Speaker 2: has to be prepared for basically three things, an outside move,
Speaker 2: an inside move, and running right at your face. And
Speaker 2: a lot of these set up for the next one.
Speaker 2: Because these guys are playing chess. So if I think
Speaker 2: a bull rush is coming, what's a finesse move that? Then? Oh,
Speaker 2: he buld rushed me. Next time I'm setting my anchor,
Speaker 2: Oh here it comes a finesse move to my inside
Speaker 2: or my outside. Give me an example of some of those.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, So a lot of people think of finess
Speaker 1: moves as just being hand moves, but they're also kind
Speaker 1: of correlated with your feed. So for example, like I
Speaker 1: want to run kind of right down the middle, I
Speaker 1: want to show you like a jab step or kind
Speaker 1: of like a one to two imagine like I'm crossing
Speaker 1: you over, I get to tackle to settle his feet
Speaker 1: because I'm thicking power. He throws his hands, the tackle
Speaker 1: throws his hands, or the guard throws their hands. I
Speaker 1: can work a double wiper, so basically, like imagine you're
Speaker 1: a wax on wax off from karate kid, I'm moving
Speaker 1: both my hands simultaneously to kind of knock his hands down,
Speaker 1: kind of losing or being soft with my inside shoulder,
Speaker 1: getting skinny with my torso, and then working a perimeter
Speaker 1: move right and so you can do that. Wipers is
Speaker 1: easy because you can do it outside and you get inside.
Speaker 1: You're just changing the direction you're moving your hands. And
Speaker 1: then obviously there's like a dip and rip move, which
Speaker 1: is which is really effective. There's a couple guys on
Speaker 1: here that have excellent dip and rip moves, and these
Speaker 1: are kind of like some people would categorize them as
Speaker 1: a ghost rush, but basically it all comes back to
Speaker 1: protecting my inside shoulder. As a rusher, I'm gonna dip
Speaker 1: down towards the ground. The tackle's gonna punch. He's not
Speaker 1: gonna get a lot of juice on there because I'm
Speaker 1: low to the ground, he's high. And then as I
Speaker 1: rip through, I'm ripping through that contact and shaving that
Speaker 1: angle so I can get to the quarterback. There's that,
Speaker 1: There's like the fake long arm to chop. There's a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of different stuff they can do, but all
Speaker 1: of them are designed initially to stop the tackle's feet
Speaker 1: and then you work to the edge. Because basically, if
Speaker 1: you think about it, if I'm a tackle and I
Speaker 1: never if I never set to power, if I never
Speaker 1: stop my feet, I would just keep kicking with you.
Speaker 1: So you want to see guys that take good effective
Speaker 1: angles to the quarterback and then have that suddenness to
Speaker 1: attack inside outside with you know, wipers, chops, rips, those
Speaker 1: types of moves.
Speaker 2: And building off of that, Like you said, what is
Speaker 2: speed to power? Because that sounds like a combination of
Speaker 2: two of the things that you just said, So give
Speaker 2: me a quick explanation of speed to power.
Speaker 1: So like for me, it's kind of it kind of
Speaker 1: melds or blends in with like a bull rush. It's
Speaker 1: like a bull rush is like a power move basically, right,
Speaker 1: But there are different ways to set up your power,
Speaker 1: and so for me, speed to power is basically what
Speaker 1: you're trying to do. So like if I take too
Speaker 1: tight of an angle, like if I run too closely
Speaker 1: to the tackle, I'm not stressed him. He's just kind
Speaker 1: of waiting for me there. So then I run into
Speaker 1: a guy who's ready to brace, ready to grab onto me,
Speaker 1: ready to sink his hips, and ready to redirect me
Speaker 1: from the quarterback. There are certain guys we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about here that do a really good job of
Speaker 1: taking what I would call a high angle, kind of
Speaker 1: not running away from the tackle, but forcing the tackle
Speaker 1: to be really aggressive with their kickstep, so that when
Speaker 1: you turn and transition into a bowl or a power rush,
Speaker 1: they're kind of unsettled with their feet. They're really stressing
Speaker 1: to move quickly to that spot to meet up with you.
Speaker 1: You kind of change the angle last minute, and then
Speaker 1: when you collision them, their base is why they're not
Speaker 1: ready for the contact. And it can be helpful, especially
Speaker 1: when you're rushing it's a bigger tackle to help kind
Speaker 1: of get them off balance and then make your power
Speaker 1: move more effective. So that's why they call it speed
Speaker 1: vertical speed up the field to power to that contact
Speaker 1: point to get them to make your power move a
Speaker 1: little bit more effective.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then just a guy terminology. The way I
Speaker 2: kind of look at it is that there are guys
Speaker 2: they're two weight. There's really five ways to attack, right.
Speaker 2: There's the inside move, the outside move, straight bullrush, and
Speaker 2: then there's a bull rush into a finesse move like
Speaker 2: a spin for instance, and then there's speed to power.
Speaker 2: I'm going to look like I'm dipping and coming around
Speaker 2: the outside, but then I'm going to go right at
Speaker 2: you when you look a little off balance. And some
Speaker 2: of these guys are really good at all most of these,
Speaker 2: or rather they specialize in one or two of these,
Speaker 2: most of these guys, and when you find a guy
Speaker 2: that can do all of these, that's where you get
Speaker 2: your very high top end prospects, which we'll talk about.
Speaker 2: So let's let's go ahead and get into it. Logan,
Speaker 2: Let's do your top ten edge rushers in this year's draft.
Speaker 2: We'll start with number ten.
Speaker 1: HEO, do you got my god? Princey Princely excuse me,
Speaker 1: Unmanniela from Old Miss and he's weavers number four on film.
Speaker 1: He was at the Senior Ball. He's uh. I think
Speaker 1: he's like six four two fifty five is. She's got
Speaker 1: thirty four and a quarter inch arms, so pretty long
Speaker 1: arms for his height. And he's kind of built like
Speaker 1: a pass rusher right like you look at him and
Speaker 1: he's built to rush the pastor. He's got really good
Speaker 1: movement skills. He's got pretty intuitive hand usages. It's not
Speaker 1: the most polished thing I've ever seen of all time,
Speaker 1: but it's pretty good and it's funny. He was one
Speaker 1: of the first guys I watched and I was like, oh, first,
Speaker 1: he's going to be a top five player just because
Speaker 1: he's got this great these great movement skills. But I
Speaker 1: think the fact that he's ten speaks to, you know
Speaker 1: how deep this edge rusher classes, and you know, the
Speaker 1: peak might not be outside of Abdu Coller Carter, might
Speaker 1: not be the highest, but I do think there's a
Speaker 1: lot of really really talented guys that are going to
Speaker 1: be starters, and I think Princeley is a good example
Speaker 1: that the reason he's lower on my list is because
Speaker 1: I think he at times he lacks urgency in the
Speaker 1: run game, right, A lot of these guys were talking
Speaker 1: about like they just play with their absolute hair on
Speaker 1: fire all the time. He's not hot and cold. He's
Speaker 1: really he's really reticent to run to the football pursuit
Speaker 1: of the football. But if he's engaged in a block,
Speaker 1: he's not super dynamic or in terms of shedding as
Speaker 1: a run player, he brings a great juice. As a
Speaker 1: pass rusher, He's a little bit of a one trick
Speaker 1: pony in terms he's always trying to attack the perimeter.
Speaker 1: But the long arms his frame allow him to, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of work a long arm which is a version
Speaker 1: of the bowl work kind of two hands into a
Speaker 1: transitional rush. So he does have power, he does have speed.
Speaker 1: I think he's got the ability to be a nice
Speaker 1: situational pass rusher at the next level, which is pretty exciting.
Speaker 1: So again, good football player. I thought he'd be a
Speaker 1: little bit higher, but again it just speaks to the
Speaker 1: depth of the class. And the reason he's lower than
Speaker 1: some of these other guys is because I think, again,
Speaker 1: there's some stuff, some questions I have in the run game.
Speaker 1: But for a lot of teams that's okay. Like I
Speaker 1: think when you look at like Nick Benito for the
Speaker 1: for the Denver Broncos, for example, like he was a
Speaker 1: situational pass rusher, pass rushing specialist kind of in college.
Speaker 1: This feels a little bit like that he's kind of
Speaker 1: grown over the course of his first two or three
Speaker 1: years of the NFL and become a every down type player.
Speaker 1: I think Princely could follow that same trajectory and become
Speaker 1: very impactful at the next level.
Speaker 2: I saw something that I thought was interesting where it
Speaker 2: looks like he hand fights sometimes at the point of attack,
Speaker 2: and that's kind of where like the quickly shedding the
Speaker 2: attacking the run game I think kind of gets lost.
Speaker 2: He just gets so locked into I need to win
Speaker 2: and just kind of stays there for too long before
Speaker 2: making some sort of move or shedding or taking his
Speaker 2: eyes to look at what the play is that's happening
Speaker 2: in front of him. He's just so excited about beating
Speaker 2: the guy who's in front of him, and that's just
Speaker 2: a guy eyes. I don't know if that's what's going
Speaker 2: on in his head, but it just looks like for
Speaker 2: all the other guys that I watched, he just sits
Speaker 2: at the point of attack just a hair longer than others.
Speaker 2: But he has incredible burst bend twitch speed like he's
Speaker 2: explosive man, and he's got a frame that I think
Speaker 2: he can keep growing into. So when I saw him
Speaker 2: just a guy, what you're saying to me makes complete sense.
Speaker 2: It's funny how this happens because I love hearing Utah
Speaker 2: talk about guys with your expert opinion and my just
Speaker 2: a guy eyes because I don't know what I'm talking
Speaker 2: about or what I'm looking at. I'm just a guy
Speaker 2: who watches football. But then hearing you talk about these
Speaker 2: guys and it's like, well, that matches up with the
Speaker 2: eye test, because that's basically what I am. I'm the
Speaker 2: eye test. And it's like you're saying all these things
Speaker 2: and you're explaining it in a way that I could
Speaker 2: never fully understand all the technicalities of it. But Okay,
Speaker 2: all that makes sense because it matches up with my
Speaker 2: eyes or scene. And what I mean by that is
Speaker 2: I wrote down it looks like you could be an
Speaker 2: immediate pass rush specialist. Yeah, and that's a good role
Speaker 2: for a team.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And I think like you're always and I
Speaker 1: think there's tremendous value there. And there's a couple other
Speaker 1: guys like in the subsequent lists we're going to talk about,
Speaker 1: but he's he's got some juice to him, and I
Speaker 1: think that's ultimately what you're chasing with this position. We
Speaker 1: talked about athletes. He's an athlete. He runs, he can hit,
Speaker 1: He's again, he's got this tremendous ability to have have
Speaker 1: like this in eight feel as a pass rusher. I
Speaker 1: thought it looked great at the Senior Bowl and kind
Speaker 1: of the bag work and movement skills. Didn't win all
Speaker 1: of his one on ones, but I thought was pretty dynamic.
Speaker 1: But a player that like he's going to contribute to
Speaker 1: an NFL roster and he's the tenth guy on the list,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it just kind of
Speaker 1: speaks again to the class. And again, like one of
Speaker 1: the things about him is I do think because of
Speaker 1: his arm length, because of his frame, he can be
Speaker 1: more impactful on first and second down given the right environment,
Speaker 1: given the right coaching situation. So you know, for a
Speaker 1: team like the Commanders, he's to me would be a
Speaker 1: great fit. You know, in terms of a guy that
Speaker 1: has pass rushed, you this good frame, good length, and
Speaker 1: just getting him in the right culture and with the
Speaker 1: right mentality because he does finish to the ball. It's
Speaker 1: just not this viole like. We're gonna talk about a
Speaker 1: guy here at number nine who is like, there's no
Speaker 1: question about his urgency and passion for the game. With Princely,
Speaker 1: it's a it's your like. I know you like rushing
Speaker 1: the passer. I know you're really good at it. I
Speaker 1: need to see a little bit more on first and
Speaker 1: second down for me to be really confident about you
Speaker 1: moving forward.
Speaker 2: You're becoming a pro. That's a nice segue into only
Speaker 2: feme olidagio from UCLA. You're so you have your eyes
Speaker 2: on this guy, I'm sure. But is he representing your
Speaker 2: alma mater? Well, Logan, tell me about it.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, man, he is. He was maybe him
Speaker 1: and another guy, or maybe the two guys I enjoyed
Speaker 1: watching most. Like talk about a guy who loves ball,
Speaker 1: who is violent at the point of attack like his
Speaker 1: he's he's he's urgent to get to the football. I'm
Speaker 1: going to get to extension, both hands on the tackles, checks,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to pull to get free. Like there was
Speaker 1: a play versus USC where he like there was a
Speaker 1: zone read. He attacks the mesh point and he doesn't
Speaker 1: make the tackle, but he looks like a like a missile,
Speaker 1: Like he dives at the quarterback, He like leg whips
Speaker 1: the running back. He's flailing around and you're just like
Speaker 1: that is. It reminds me a lot of who's a
Speaker 1: linebacker here? Number four? Jeez, forget his name already, luvuk Luvu,
Speaker 1: Frankie Louvia. He reminds me of that kind of energy
Speaker 1: in a bigger body. You know, he's six two and
Speaker 1: a half, but he's two sixty five. He's big, he's heavy.
Speaker 1: He rushes at all three spots, rushes at the three technique,
Speaker 1: rushes at the end, and rushes at the nose guard
Speaker 1: as their spinner. And just Is is a maniac to
Speaker 1: get to the football and violent when he gets there.
Speaker 1: And so he's only played like you talked about after
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl. He's only played like rush defensive end
Speaker 1: for like six games in his career. So for a
Speaker 1: guy to show this type of juice and enthusiasm and energy, like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, man, he is he's everything you want.
Speaker 1: Like there's no question about his desire, his hustle, his passion,
Speaker 1: and he has the right kind of physical violence to
Speaker 1: his game that just just it sets you off, Like
Speaker 1: you're just like, I want to coach this guy. I
Speaker 1: want him to be a part of this organization now.
Speaker 1: Because of the limited experience, he's a little bit raw,
Speaker 1: he's a little bit stiff. You know. Princely has this
Speaker 1: great bend and natural movement skill. Femi's a little bit
Speaker 1: tighter in the upper back, kind of a little bit
Speaker 1: more of a power type rusher, but he has enough
Speaker 1: juice to his motor that makes you say, man, this
Speaker 1: guy's going to be a good football player. Just got
Speaker 1: to get him with the right coaches and keep fostering
Speaker 1: this tremendous passion for football.
Speaker 2: Yeah. My favorite stat about him is that he played
Speaker 2: inside linebacker and he looks like it. Right, He's got
Speaker 2: that type of body, big, supersized, just rocked up dude, right,
Speaker 2: and it's like, Okay, he played well at inside linebacker,
Speaker 2: and then UCLA went, hey, let's move him to the
Speaker 2: outside for the final six games of this season, and
Speaker 2: he just balled, just immediately started racking up the production.
Speaker 2: And yeah, but he's a wild man right, and a
Speaker 2: lot of that has to do with the rawness that
Speaker 2: you were talking about. But crazy, This doesn't take a
Speaker 2: genius to see. He's crazy athletic and has a motor
Speaker 2: like that's what it is, right, He's just running on high.
Speaker 1: And there are more athletic people. And we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about another guy here that I think is very
Speaker 1: similar in terms of play style. But there's something to
Speaker 1: be said for playing hard at defensive end and a
Speaker 1: little bit reckless. And he does that, like if you're
Speaker 1: looking at matting rating, like he's playing hard all the
Speaker 1: time and he's also a little bit reckless. So he's
Speaker 1: going to throw his body in there and be devastating,
Speaker 1: which is you're just going to get You're just going
Speaker 1: to fall into a lot of plays. And there's a
Speaker 1: guy here that is maybe the most athletically gifted guy
Speaker 1: on this list, but he's not in the top ten
Speaker 1: because he doesn't bring the juice all the time and
Speaker 1: I think those like just bringing juice all the time, energy, passion,
Speaker 1: motivation just makes him such a high floor prospect in
Speaker 1: my opinion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he is going to Femi here is
Speaker 2: going to be a surprise on draft night for a
Speaker 2: lot of people because he's not getting a lot of
Speaker 2: national attention, and a coach is just going to fall
Speaker 2: in love with this. They're going to fall in love
Speaker 2: with that energy, that motor and the rawness the clay.
Speaker 2: And when you have a guy that has that type
Speaker 2: of motor and that energy and that juice and that hustle,
Speaker 2: that tends to mean that they have the want to right,
Speaker 2: they're hard workers off the field. That tends to be
Speaker 2: a correlation there. So a coach is going to see
Speaker 2: this and go, oh my gosh, if I have If
Speaker 2: he's already this and he's I can still mold him,
Speaker 2: I'll take him. And I think he's going to go
Speaker 2: much higher than people anticipate because the coach is going
Speaker 2: to see that and won it.
Speaker 1: Dane Brugler, you know who does the athletic stuff, has
Speaker 1: them already in his top ninety players. So it's already
Speaker 1: starting to happen because people are starting to be aware
Speaker 1: of what he does and the physicality and the urgency
Speaker 1: he plays with.
Speaker 2: All Right, Number eight for you, yeah, is.
Speaker 1: The Ohio state standout. You're gonna have to help me
Speaker 1: with his name here, it's TJ. Right, TJ to malau
Speaker 1: JT to malau JT. There we go, not the part
Speaker 1: I thought I need help with. But you know that's
Speaker 1: that's me reading wrong anyway. So he's he's sixty five,
Speaker 1: he's two sixty five, looks like he might be two seventy.
Speaker 1: Is long, He's like long limbed, long legs. He has
Speaker 1: this great kind of feel for getting to extension on blockers.
Speaker 1: He's got this kind of silky smooth athleticism. To me,
Speaker 1: he's this is like a high floor prospect, right, He's
Speaker 1: got the frame, he's got the athleticism. I think he
Speaker 1: leaves some to be desired as a pure pass rusher.
Speaker 1: He's got a nice little spin move. He's got some
Speaker 1: decent power, a little bit sluggish to react to stuff.
Speaker 1: But because he's so good on first and second down,
Speaker 1: because he's got the frame, because he's got this length,
Speaker 1: I think he's going to be a very very solid
Speaker 1: pro So if the commanders were to draft a guy
Speaker 1: like this, you feel really good about the floor that
Speaker 1: he brings to your defense.
Speaker 2: I have a question about him off of what you
Speaker 2: just said. So you said he's like a little bit sluggish, right,
Speaker 2: I wonder if it's just he doesn't have that burst
Speaker 2: in that quickness, because he does seem to eventually get
Speaker 2: up there, almost like he has a build up speed.
Speaker 2: So do you think that's like an athletic thing, like
Speaker 2: a trait that's holding him back or is it a
Speaker 2: coaching thing? Is it something you can train and teach,
Speaker 2: like to get him to just be a little quicker
Speaker 2: off the burst.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely think he can fix his stance a
Speaker 1: little bit. You know, he kind of does a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff from a three point stance, so two feet
Speaker 1: on the ground, one hand on the ground. He's in
Speaker 1: a sprinter stance, but he's his butt's kind of low,
Speaker 1: and so when you think about getting off from a
Speaker 1: pass rushing standpoint, you kind of want your butt above
Speaker 1: your shoulders so you can kind of get that extension
Speaker 1: out of your stands. I think we could kind of
Speaker 1: they could clean that up for him a little bit.
Speaker 1: I do think to your point that there are some
Speaker 1: technical corrections you could make, but I also believe that
Speaker 1: that's just kind of how he's wired. And so people say, well, Logan,
Speaker 1: you just talked about athleticism, right, He's he's athletic in
Speaker 1: a different way. Kind of like a fluid kind of
Speaker 1: basketball type of athleticism. Right, it's not super sudden. He's
Speaker 1: kind of like that guy at the YMCA who's always
Speaker 1: kind of crossing people over in slow motion and hitting
Speaker 1: three pointers. And the size is something that you just
Speaker 1: can't overlook here in terms of floor, Like, he could
Speaker 1: play stand up edge, right, he could play like kind
Speaker 1: of a four down six techniques, so head up over
Speaker 1: the tight end. He could play a tight five if
Speaker 1: you need him to, because the length, because the extension,
Speaker 1: because the frame just brings his floor up so tremendously.
Speaker 1: So is he the most exciting prospect on the list? No,
Speaker 1: but again, floor is incredibly high I think he had.
Speaker 1: He does have some upside as a pass rusher, Like
Speaker 1: when you watch him, his ability to get to the
Speaker 1: spin move off of kind of his power approach is
Speaker 1: pretty devastating, and he's able to create a couple pressures
Speaker 1: off of that. So again, not the most dynamic guy,
Speaker 1: but again, just a really really solid professional. And I
Speaker 1: like to bet on those guys in the draft because
Speaker 1: it's mitigating risk. Right, His frame, his length, his kind
Speaker 1: of silky smooth athleticism, his physicality, he had a great
Speaker 1: play against Oregon where they're run in like a counter,
Speaker 1: they're pulling the guard the tight ends. Following he blows
Speaker 1: just straight through the guards outside shoulder hits the tight end,
Speaker 1: makes a huge pile, makes a tackle like I want
Speaker 1: that on my team. A guy that diagnoses attacks with violence,
Speaker 1: and you see the physical tools on plays like that,
Speaker 1: and then they happen relatively consistently. So I really like
Speaker 1: him as a player. If he was a commander, I'd
Speaker 1: be pret juiced.
Speaker 2: I'd be super juice because I think he's just all
Speaker 2: around good and he also he's got a high football IQ.
Speaker 2: It looks like I mean, he can quickly dissect what's
Speaker 2: going on with play, shed blocks, get into the run game,
Speaker 2: and he's just very smooth. There's something about him where
Speaker 2: he's not flashy, but he is just effective at everything
Speaker 2: he does. Honestly, I think this guy is going to
Speaker 2: be a breakout star. I could see it happening just
Speaker 2: because he's so solid at everything. And I still think
Speaker 2: he has like you were saying earlier, the things that
Speaker 2: he's not great at are coachable and things that he'll
Speaker 2: grow into and learn, especially if he gets with a
Speaker 2: good defensive minded coach or d line coach that can
Speaker 2: teach him how to like get a little more juice, right,
Speaker 2: maybe don't be so deliberate, be a little more wild,
Speaker 2: like how we just talked about Femi, Like just add
Speaker 2: that to your game, change your mindset, just to hear,
Speaker 2: because I don't think it's the athleticism or the IQ
Speaker 2: that's holding them back. I think it's like I think
Speaker 2: it's a mentality, quite honestly, and and if that clicks
Speaker 2: for him, I think he could be honestly a breakout star. Right,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna battle on this guy, like this is gonna
Speaker 2: be one of my guys that I'm gonna love watching
Speaker 2: the career of. And I hope he does really well
Speaker 2: because I, for whatever reason, my just a guy eyes
Speaker 2: see it. Okay, so we're going to go to the
Speaker 2: next guy here, and that is number seven is Lyndon
Speaker 2: Jackson from Arkansas.
Speaker 1: For you, dude, I absolutely this is maybe my favorite
Speaker 1: player in the defensive line group. And again, he's not
Speaker 1: the best athlete, he's not the twitchiest guy. But what
Speaker 1: I love about him is he plays the game with
Speaker 1: such physical violence. Right, he is tough man. He is
Speaker 1: going to play every play one percent. There's no compromising
Speaker 1: in terms of effort. Like you watch its LSU and again,
Speaker 1: Will Campbell is, you know, my number one offensive lineman.
Speaker 1: But he's given Will Campbell fits right just because every
Speaker 1: down it's like I'm running right down the screws. I
Speaker 1: am violently extending, I'm violently shending. I'm violently running to
Speaker 1: the football. And he's a big old hoss. He's six
Speaker 1: five and a half, he's two seventy five to seventy
Speaker 1: three something like that. He's got thirty three and a
Speaker 1: half inch arms. Arm wakes a little bit short. But man,
Speaker 1: he I when you play the game the right way,
Speaker 1: when you are like, hey, man, it's ninety minutes of
Speaker 1: me and you and our face masks are gonna hit
Speaker 1: and we're gonna they're gonna be really familiar with themselves
Speaker 1: by the end of this game. Like I just I
Speaker 1: can't get enough of that, man, I really cannot. And
Speaker 1: so he does that. He's a little stiff. He's a
Speaker 1: little stiff in his upper back. He plays a little
Speaker 1: bit of high so all of his sacks tend to
Speaker 1: be kind of either like bull rushes to like hard
Speaker 1: transitions or bull rushes to kind of power rips, which
Speaker 1: again we've seen. I'm not gonna I'm going to compare
Speaker 1: him to Jared Verse. They're very different players. Jared Vers
Speaker 1: has elite, devastating, you know, game changing power. Landon Jackson
Speaker 1: plays like that, but not quite to the same level. Right,
Speaker 1: So I just think, you know, if you put him
Speaker 1: at a stand up end, he's gonna set a hard
Speaker 1: edge and he's gonna make your life absolutely hell. He
Speaker 1: can play a six technique and can play a five.
Speaker 1: He was their stand up spinner and he's just running
Speaker 1: right down the middle of the center's faces. You can
Speaker 1: tell guys don't want to block him because of how
Speaker 1: he plays. In the Senior Bowl game, he has two sacks,
Speaker 1: he has a force fumble like he just plays hard man.
Speaker 1: And again, like this is gonna sound dumb, but like
Speaker 1: when you're big and athletic and physically violent, if you
Speaker 1: play hard and you play every snap like it's your
Speaker 1: last snap, it's gonna save you a lot of grief.
Speaker 1: So everyone says, oh, well, Logan, how is he compared
Speaker 1: to Princely Umaniela you know from Old Miss Princey is
Speaker 1: a better athlete, Like he moves better, he's looser, he's
Speaker 1: he's got more pass rush upside. But if you want
Speaker 1: a guy that's going to come in at day one
Speaker 1: and change your program and be a commander, then just
Speaker 1: set a cultural physical tone for your team. It's it's
Speaker 1: Land and Jackson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Logan, I think what we're starting to learn, if
Speaker 2: our listeners are still with us, which I hope they are,
Speaker 2: is that this class is good. This is a good
Speaker 2: edg rush class. I don't know that there's any like
Speaker 2: there's not like a ton of elite guys like or
Speaker 2: sure things or blue chippers let's call them that. There's
Speaker 2: not a ton of those. But the depth here is great.
Speaker 2: Like if you're getting these guys, if you look at
Speaker 2: the list we've gone through already, this is your seventh, eighth, ninth,
Speaker 2: and tenth on the list of edge rushers, and you'd
Speaker 2: be happy with these guys, right, So I think that
Speaker 2: that's real quickly. I just wanted to state that out,
Speaker 2: Like they all have like little things that can be
Speaker 2: improved upon. They're not perfect, they're certainly not blue chippers yet,
Speaker 2: but they all look like they can contribute almost immediately
Speaker 2: in some way for our teams.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a great point. That's what's so
Speaker 1: exciting about this Edwritch class because even the five or
Speaker 1: six guys we're going to talk about kind of just
Speaker 1: throwing names out there, I think contribute as well given
Speaker 1: the right situation. But the fact that maybe my favorite player,
Speaker 1: one of my favorite players in the entire draft, the
Speaker 1: seventh Edge Rusher, I think speaks to the physical talent
Speaker 1: that this group has. And again that we talk about
Speaker 1: how production and physical traits need to meet up, right,
Speaker 1: and some of these guys early on have just the
Speaker 1: most cartoonish physical traits you've ever seen, But again the
Speaker 1: production doesn't always match up. And so that's why, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a really interesting class to talk about, and I'm
Speaker 1: glad we're going to talk about him.
Speaker 2: And speaking of guys that are just kind of cartoonish,
Speaker 2: we're gonna get now into some of the guys that
Speaker 2: just move incredibly well. And we're going to start here
Speaker 2: with the James Pierce Jr. There are a couple of
Speaker 2: guys that are like him. He's the first one on
Speaker 2: our board that I think is his size and moves
Speaker 2: like he does. I mean, I'm gonna start real quick
Speaker 2: this guy's tape is just fun to watch because he
Speaker 2: excels at burst and bend. He's got great top tier
Speaker 2: pursuit speed, he's got nice footwork. He's just he's got
Speaker 2: long length, he's twitched. It's like this guy's huge and
Speaker 2: he is an incredible athlete. Now he has some deficiencies.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you'll talk about him, but him, Mike Green
Speaker 2: will talk about later. Like, these guys kind of fall
Speaker 2: in the same category. They are all around the same size,
Speaker 2: and man can they move. So talk to me a
Speaker 2: little bit about James Pierce Junior from Tennessee.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he's like I think you hit the
Speaker 1: nail on the head there. He's kind of he's what
Speaker 1: is he's six ' five, he's two forties three, I
Speaker 1: want to say, and they don't. We don't. We don't
Speaker 1: have an official arm length measurement for him because he
Speaker 1: wasn't at the Senior Bowl. But we'll get that to
Speaker 1: you once he's at the combine. But kind of looks
Speaker 1: like a big receiver, like he runs exceptionally well. He
Speaker 1: has got good length. It's seemingly on film. He's got
Speaker 1: good physical pop and twitch. To me, he's playing like
Speaker 1: his hand in the dirt, kind of a six six
Speaker 1: technique tight nine. I don't know if that's his best game.
Speaker 1: I want him at a two point. I want him
Speaker 1: attacking the quarterback as much as possible, because again he's
Speaker 1: not maybe the most refined pass rusher, but he makes
Speaker 1: up for it with just amendous horsepower. Right, He's a
Speaker 1: little stiff through his trunk, so that elite bend isn't
Speaker 1: always there. But unlike Landon Jackson, who's kind of this
Speaker 1: power bruising hulk, this guy looks like he might run
Speaker 1: a four to four. Like he is juiced up, he's twitchy,
Speaker 1: he gets off the ball well, he's violent at the
Speaker 1: intersection point in terms of past row. The reason to
Speaker 1: me again, if you watch his what is this twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three tape, you're like, this dude's going to be
Speaker 1: a top ten pick. Then, for whatever reason, this last
Speaker 1: year in twenty twenty four kind of stumbled a little bit.
Speaker 1: It's production's way down. Not really sure what the deal
Speaker 1: was if there was a change in usage. They rotate
Speaker 1: him out a lot. They have like six or seven
Speaker 1: guys there along the defensive front that are constantly like
Speaker 1: hockey rotationing in which was frustrating when you're watching the
Speaker 1: All twenty two because you're like, dude, I just want
Speaker 1: to watch this guy play like he's the best athlete
Speaker 1: out here, like let him play more. But for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: they made a decision not to do that. I do
Speaker 1: feel like there are times where he's not all the
Speaker 1: way engaged in the game because he is such a
Speaker 1: good athlete. Like there was an example versus Vanderbilt where
Speaker 1: the guy, the offensive lineman kind of walks him to
Speaker 1: the sideline and he looks at him and kind of
Speaker 1: points to the ref and the ref's like, you got
Speaker 1: to get off the block. And the next play he
Speaker 1: absolutely just murders this guy. But I'm like, where's that
Speaker 1: effort all the time? And so I think that's something
Speaker 1: that's a little bit that that's why he's six for me. Right, physically,
Speaker 1: he could be higher, but the effort, inconsistency, the lack
Speaker 1: of production this last year, the lack of that like
Speaker 1: elite elite bend are all red flag. Now he's twitched up,
Speaker 1: he's juiced, he's going to run fast. He can run
Speaker 1: fast to the football, He's got good length, So like
Speaker 1: I like him but again there are some questions, which
Speaker 1: is why he's not the third guy. He's the sixth
Speaker 1: guy on this list.
Speaker 2: Logan, I'm going to be a little bit different than
Speaker 2: you with this, and it could just be because I
Speaker 2: don't see things the way that you do, in the
Speaker 2: technical ways you do. I think anybody from two to
Speaker 2: six here on the guys on your list, they're all
Speaker 2: kind of toss ups for me, and on any given week,
Speaker 2: I could shuffle them around. Like quite honestly, he looks
Speaker 2: I just as I'm watching him, I immediately think, like
Speaker 2: Mike Green. The comparisons are there, right, and on any
Speaker 2: given day, I could have James Pierce higher than Mike Green.
Speaker 2: Now that's I'm not a Mike Green a hater, but
Speaker 2: there's just something where like he's getting a lot of
Speaker 2: media hype, and then James Pearce is at here doing
Speaker 2: things that Mike Green is doing, but he's doing it
Speaker 2: at higher competition, like I'm seeing it. And I'll give
Speaker 2: you an example. This morning, I went back and watched
Speaker 2: a little bit of his tape with NC State where
Speaker 2: he goes up against Anthony Belton, a guy we really like,
Speaker 2: and he would win, not just win with his finesse
Speaker 2: moves night he won twice with a bull rush, and
Speaker 2: so it's like, Okay, I've seen him do it right,
Speaker 2: Whereas like a Mike Green looks a little more athletic,
Speaker 2: but I can't tell if it's because he plays with
Speaker 2: against lesser competition at Marshall or he's that much better
Speaker 2: of an athlete. And it's gonna make me sound like
Speaker 2: a Mike Green hater, and I guess I that's what
Speaker 2: people can call me. It's not I'm not. I love
Speaker 2: Mike Green. Watching Mike Green is fun. Watching James Pearce
Speaker 2: is fun. Like, I just think that we're now at
Speaker 2: the point for me where if any of these guys
Speaker 2: that we're gonna list coming forward become commanders, I think
Speaker 2: they can have day one effectiveness because we have a
Speaker 2: good coaching staff here. We have guys like Ryan Carrigan
Speaker 2: on this staff who you know very well, who is shoot,
Speaker 2: he's Washington's sack all time leader like and can teach
Speaker 2: these guys how to improve their gant. So like, I
Speaker 2: see a guy like James pears and I see the
Speaker 2: limitations you're talking about, and I'm like, yeah, get them here,
Speaker 2: as them be a commander and I'm going to be
Speaker 2: like this for all the guys moving forward, like there's
Speaker 2: just they're kind of all bunched up and I love
Speaker 2: them all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think the thing with James first junior,
Speaker 1: it was the it was the down to down effort
Speaker 1: that I was a little bit like, what's going on here? Right?
Speaker 1: Are you getting ready for the NFL draft? Like what's
Speaker 1: going on? And this is where like having a meeting
Speaker 1: with the guy would be really helpful because I do
Speaker 1: think there are teams that'll have him higher than this
Speaker 1: once they get the measurements and what they get like
Speaker 1: all the GPS dad and all that stuff, and once
Speaker 1: you meet with him, like let's say the dude just
Speaker 1: absolutely bleeds football, right, Like, I'm gonna take him way
Speaker 1: higher because again, the physical tools there, but there were
Speaker 1: questions just watching the film and it's not all the
Speaker 1: time where you're like, man, like come on, like all
Speaker 1: the time, be like this, do this all the time.
Speaker 1: And again like good football player twitched up if he's
Speaker 1: a commander, like you're doing on a backflip or I
Speaker 1: don't think he's gonna fall that far. I think he's
Speaker 1: probably gonna go the latest twenty five. But but yeah, man,
Speaker 1: he's a good football player and juiced up special special athletes,
Speaker 1: special rusher and I get again, given the right situation,
Speaker 1: I think could do some really devastating things.
Speaker 2: And let's get into I mean, we know commanders, they
Speaker 2: love dogs, right, and I think Dan Quinn says dog
Speaker 2: ass competitors. The next guy on your list list is
Speaker 2: Michel Williams, And man, is this guy a dog, especially
Speaker 2: in the run game, and he has comic book length
Speaker 2: and movement. Talk to me a little bit about him
Speaker 2: and why he is number five on your list.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's really why he's ahead of James Fears
Speaker 1: Junior is just because of that. Right, He's just big.
Speaker 1: He's bigger and stronger and faster than maybe everybody on
Speaker 1: this list despite outside of one person, Like he is
Speaker 1: one of one. And he's really hard to kind of
Speaker 1: quantify because I want him to play a stand up
Speaker 1: defensive end or a six technique, But at Georgia they
Speaker 1: got him play in a four eyes, so he's basically
Speaker 1: playing like defensive tackle from a frog read stance, so
Speaker 1: like it's not even a three point stance where I
Speaker 1: can attack the line of scrimmage. I'm playing lateral into
Speaker 1: double teams with tackles and tight ends, and I'm just
Speaker 1: totally negating this player's athleticism. But when you watch a
Speaker 1: cutup of it, go ahead, Well, I was.
Speaker 2: Going to jump in and say, I think why they
Speaker 2: do that is because he is an incredible disruptor in
Speaker 2: the stunt splitz and gap attacks. So I think Georgia
Speaker 2: was like, well, we're gonna put you here because you
Speaker 2: excel at this thing. And it's like, I don't know that.
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, like, I know you kind
Speaker 2: of see that as like I don't want to say
Speaker 2: a negative like you saw that and it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I want to see something different. I saw that and
Speaker 2: was like, oh my gosh, this guy can do anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think for me, it's just like I
Speaker 1: think they're mismanaging, Like I think he's probably operating at
Speaker 1: like a seventy five percent on the interior. I want
Speaker 1: to see him operating like when you see him on
Speaker 1: the edge, like be big and long and physical and fast,
Speaker 1: like that's what I want to see. Like there and again,
Speaker 1: he's playing a four eye like he'll rip inside, he'll
Speaker 1: take on a block he does good stuff, right, but
Speaker 1: like when you watch the highlights of him and the
Speaker 1: cutups of him playing on the edge, like you're like,
Speaker 1: I want this guy here more. I want him to
Speaker 1: set edges. I want him to two gap this. I
Speaker 1: want him to again, you're not the most refined pass
Speaker 1: rusher in the whole world, but I want him just
Speaker 1: to uncork it and let it go. And again, that's
Speaker 1: why he's this guy because I think he plays hard,
Speaker 1: he's physical in the run game, he's got the length,
Speaker 1: he's got the size. The production is severely lacking. He
Speaker 1: had an injury this year. Everyone was kind of hoping
Speaker 1: he would be the next guy. And again, just from
Speaker 1: the measurement standpoint, the way he moves, he should be
Speaker 1: kind of a i'd say probably a top ten pick.
Speaker 1: But we're talking about him here probably in the mid
Speaker 1: twenties to the high teens to the tens, maybe somewhere
Speaker 1: in there, like because he just wasn't super productive and
Speaker 1: a little bit of it's the scheme, a little bit,
Speaker 1: it's the usage. But and he's a little bit tight
Speaker 1: like in the hips, so it's hard for him at
Speaker 1: the four eye. But I think when he's linearly on
Speaker 1: the edge moving forward like I think he could be devastating.
Speaker 1: So this is a little bit of a projection pick.
Speaker 1: But I like the other stuff about him enough. I
Speaker 1: like the hand usage, I like the length, I like
Speaker 1: the physical snap to him. I like the movement skills,
Speaker 1: like watching him run like receivers down and dropping a
Speaker 1: coverage like there was a play versus I think it
Speaker 1: was versus Texas Texas where they motioned the third receiver
Speaker 1: to the flat and he was in a three point
Speaker 1: stat stands ahead to drop out and run with like
Speaker 1: a receiver, and it looked like he was fine. He
Speaker 1: was totally comfortable doing that. So an interesting evaluation. Lot
Speaker 1: is lacking in my opinion, just from like watching the
Speaker 1: film because you don't get to see him do all
Speaker 1: this stuff. But physically, movement skills, mentality, it all seems
Speaker 1: to be there. I just wanted to see more.
Speaker 2: No, I get what you're saying. I would say that,
Speaker 2: like you know, I'm a Penn State fan and one
Speaker 2: of the things that drove me absolutely nuts was watching
Speaker 2: Micaeh Parsons at Penn State being a fan of him,
Speaker 2: because they just mismanaged him and you could see it.
Speaker 2: They had him as an outside linebacker that was playing
Speaker 2: that position kind of purely and very rarely pass rushed,
Speaker 2: but when he did, it was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: why is this guy not a d end or at
Speaker 2: least a stand up edge And for whatever reason, Penn
Speaker 2: State didn't want to do that, And I think he
Speaker 2: no one knew what he was going to be coming
Speaker 2: in because he wasn't utilized that way in college, so
Speaker 2: there wasn't really the foresight to see what Michael Parsons
Speaker 2: could be. And I guess what you're saying here is like,
Speaker 2: let's see if this is Michel Williams is I'm not
Speaker 2: saying he's in the next Michael Parsons, but I'm saying, like,
Speaker 2: let's see if he really can play at that spot, right,
Speaker 2: and let him go instead of moving them in other
Speaker 2: positions that don't elevate him, right, Like people say all
Speaker 2: the time, and they're right, Like, great coaching is putting
Speaker 2: your player in a position to be successful. So it's
Speaker 2: finding out what their superpower is and letting them do that.
Speaker 2: Don't limit that. I think you mentioned when you played
Speaker 2: for Dan Quinn that was one of the great things
Speaker 2: about him as a coach. He finds what your superpower
Speaker 2: is and it's like, all right, let's harness that and
Speaker 2: turn that up. And I think a guy like Michel Williams,
Speaker 2: that's why I love him is I think I think
Speaker 2: NFL coaches and especially year at the commanders are smart
Speaker 2: enough to know that. And I honestly think if he
Speaker 2: gets put with let's say he gets paired with a
Speaker 2: talented pass rusher veteran on the other side, I mean that,
Speaker 2: I think that's a devastating combo. And I would I
Speaker 2: would love to see him wearing a commander's uniform with
Speaker 2: Frankie Lulu, right, those two guys, Like, to me, that's
Speaker 2: a perfect pair. No, No, I understand, I understand. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't think it's happening, but I just it'd be.
Speaker 2: It's fun to dream, logan.
Speaker 1: No, it is fun to dream. And I would have
Speaker 1: put him. I probably would have put him above this
Speaker 1: next guy. If the next guy. We talked about production
Speaker 1: quite a bit, right, Like, he's very close to being
Speaker 1: the fourth or third defensive end. And it's crazy to
Speaker 1: say that because his production was so limited at Georgia,
Speaker 1: But dude, he's he's just a special mover and he's
Speaker 1: big as hell, So it's like, you know, it's just
Speaker 1: like God, like, what could this guy be? But yeah,
Speaker 1: the next guy on the list is one that I
Speaker 1: think is kind of maybe the opposite of this, and
Speaker 1: Nick s Gordon from Texas A and M. And he's
Speaker 1: Wor's number eleven. He's I think he's six three. He's
Speaker 1: two eighty right, looks a little bit heavy on film,
Speaker 1: but plays the game incredibly hard, plays the four eye,
Speaker 1: plays the end, has a lot more pass rush kind
Speaker 1: of nuance. He's got the double wiper, he's got the
Speaker 1: good bull, he can spin inside. And when you watch
Speaker 1: the stuff of him at Penn State, which is where
Speaker 1: it was the year before, you see tremendous burst and
Speaker 1: juice and just getting after it. And here at A
Speaker 1: and M not quite as much. But the thing that
Speaker 1: made me confident in putting him at number four is
Speaker 1: that he just plays hard as hell. So he's a
Speaker 1: guy that loves ball. He's physicals all outdoors, he's gonna
Speaker 1: he's got the pass rush kind of bag of tricks
Speaker 1: to make him effective at the next level. I worry
Speaker 1: about his general athleticism. So when we get to the combine,
Speaker 1: I'm really curious to see, like how do you run?
Speaker 1: How's your forty? Like what do the drills look like?
Speaker 1: You know, like how do you up when Mikel Williams
Speaker 1: is out there like like a safety Like probably not
Speaker 1: going to look as good, but do you look at
Speaker 1: least serviceable for a defensive end. But I really liked
Speaker 1: the player. I liked him a lot at Purdue. Liked
Speaker 1: him a lot at Purdue, felt a little bit off
Speaker 1: at at t X and m hopefully he just gained
Speaker 1: a couple pounds, you know, enjoyed the cafeteria a little
Speaker 1: bit too much in Texas, but in terms of mindset
Speaker 1: like it, in terms of past rush moves like it.
Speaker 1: Just wonder about overall athleticism.
Speaker 2: That barbecue is good down there in Texas. And I
Speaker 2: was gonna say the same thing I'm this is of
Speaker 2: this entire edge rush class is the one I'm most
Speaker 2: excited to see at the combine, just to see how
Speaker 2: he tests, because I wrote down that is he slow?
Speaker 2: I don't know, and like I don't know about his
Speaker 2: burst either, So I'd love to see in his forty
Speaker 2: that ten yard split, Like I'm just curious as to
Speaker 2: what it is because he has really great things. And
Speaker 2: it's like just his speed just seems to be a
Speaker 2: little bit off. But he has great things. I mean
Speaker 2: he's dense, balanced, big motor, strong push like you're saying
Speaker 2: he for as big as he is, he's got really
Speaker 2: nice as we called him earlier, those finesse moves like
Speaker 2: the spins and the chops for his size. And I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: he had ten sacks in twenty twenty three, only five
Speaker 2: this year. I'm curious as to why that dropped, and
Speaker 2: it could just be the Texas barbecue. But I think
Speaker 2: he's a good player. Again, we go back to it.
Speaker 2: I think he's a good player. I know, like I
Speaker 2: just said, is he slow? That's all relative, Like is
Speaker 2: he slow compared to these guys We're about to talk
Speaker 2: about Mike Green here soon, Like Mike Mike Green's going
Speaker 2: to be a freak at the combine. So it's like,
Speaker 2: is he slow? Is like that's a I just want
Speaker 2: people to understand I'm not calling the dude slow. If
Speaker 2: I ever meet him in person, I don't want him
Speaker 2: to ever think that I was like, hey man, you're slow.
Speaker 2: That's not what I mean. I mean for this class, right,
Speaker 2: because he is he's a very good player.
Speaker 1: Well especially can change like compared to like James Pearce
Speaker 1: or Mike Green or you know Shamar Stewart who goes
Speaker 1: Abdual Carter, Like those guys are really twitchy, really bursty,
Speaker 1: you know, in a different way. And again there's a
Speaker 1: savviness and a physicality to him that you know, makes
Speaker 1: me feel good about him. I feel like he's a
Speaker 1: high floor player. And again, if he runs bad, if
Speaker 1: he runs like a five to one, he's probably playing
Speaker 1: three techniques. He's not going to be on the younger
Speaker 1: as an edge rusher. But again, the physicality, the production
Speaker 1: that kind of powerish your profile with the other stuff
Speaker 1: in terms of finesse moves off of it makes you
Speaker 1: feel really good about him long term in the NFL.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna, okay, Logan, go with me on this. I'm
Speaker 2: going to veer off path, but I promise I'll bring
Speaker 2: it back. What what do you think the how many
Speaker 2: of these guys do you think are going to go
Speaker 2: in like the top fifteen of this draft? A number?
Speaker 2: Don't don't list the guys you think will go How
Speaker 2: many edge rushers from this class you think will be
Speaker 2: top fifteen this year. Okay, so we're now leading into
Speaker 2: your top three here, so you have Mike Green as
Speaker 2: your three. I would say that the general consensus is
Speaker 2: that Mike Green is easily a top fifteen pick. But
Speaker 2: you just said without saying it, Mike Green's maybe not
Speaker 2: a top fifteen pick for you. Why are you a
Speaker 2: Mike Green hater? Logan explain yourself.
Speaker 1: Mike Green hater. That's strong man. So Mike Green, let
Speaker 1: me just say this before we get started about my
Speaker 1: Mike Green hate. That is so fun to watch on
Speaker 1: film because he plays with the I'm gonna say again,
Speaker 1: the urgency, the recklessness, the passion for the game. Right
Speaker 1: He's trying to make every single tackle. You watch him
Speaker 1: versus Ohio State, right those that's a that's a big school,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously. And in the first half, man, he's
Speaker 1: you know, chopping, he's ripping, he's spinning, he's running, he's
Speaker 1: making pursuit tackles, he's physical on tight ends. It's all
Speaker 1: the stuff you want to see. I think the one
Speaker 1: thing that sticks out to me is the level of
Speaker 1: confet outside the Ohuse State game. You know, he went
Speaker 1: to Marshall and they're playing offensive linemen that are not
Speaker 1: very good, and he looks like an absolute superhero on film,
Speaker 1: like absolute superhero. And then you get to the Senior
Speaker 1: Bowl and everyone's talking about the Senior Bowl as an
Speaker 1: opportunity for him to show how dynamic he is, how
Speaker 1: twitched up he is, how you know, explosive he is.
Speaker 1: And he came and he showed a lot of that stuff.
Speaker 1: But then you go back and I charted all the
Speaker 1: one on ones, right, char on ones, he had four
Speaker 1: to one on ones. Okay, one of them was versus Connorley,
Speaker 1: right that everyone on there and the whole internet saw, right,
Speaker 1: they saw Connorley just get absolutely blown up, and everyone's like,
Speaker 1: this is it. He's a right if he's showing what
Speaker 1: he got to do. He has another rep versus connor
Speaker 1: Lee where he gets washed totally flat and doesn't look
Speaker 1: like he's even trying, and connor Ley is so unstressed.
Speaker 1: Right then, Jalen Travis from Iowa State, he's big fellas
Speaker 1: sixty seven long arms three sixty five are three forty
Speaker 1: five excuse me, forty five forty five inch thirty five
Speaker 1: inch arms, excuse me, does a great job and just
Speaker 1: locks him up like kicks to the spot, locks him up,
Speaker 1: He tries to spend, mirrors him Anthony Belton, our guy
Speaker 1: who he just talked about how James s Pears Junior
Speaker 1: gave him fits when he was at Tennessee, locks him up,
Speaker 1: just sits in him, tries to mirror inside. Belton jumps down,
Speaker 1: kind of hops to stop and would win the rep.
Speaker 1: So of his four reps at the Senior Bowl, I
Speaker 1: would say three of them were definitive losses and one
Speaker 1: of them was a big win. So everyone talks about
Speaker 1: him kind of shooting up boards, and the only reason
Speaker 1: he should be shooting up boards, in my opinion, is
Speaker 1: because of how awesome his tape is. He's got amazing tape.
Speaker 1: He's got some of the best tape in this entire class.
Speaker 1: He can beat you, however, he wants spin inside outside,
Speaker 1: swipes inside outside, dip and rip inside outside. He got
Speaker 1: vertical juice. The one thing I am concerned about is
Speaker 1: when you watch him again versus Ohio State, He's going
Speaker 1: up against Josh Shimmins, who again we talked about as
Speaker 1: one of the best tackles in this class. Josh Shimmins
Speaker 1: looks like he's taking a nap. In pass protection with
Speaker 1: this guy right kicks to the spot, smears, locks him down,
Speaker 1: and he does it three or four times in the game. Now,
Speaker 1: the right tackle number seventy for Ole State has a
Speaker 1: hard time with the speed. But like, how are you
Speaker 1: versus top flight talent? Right? I don't have a lot
Speaker 1: of questions about mikel Williams. I don't have a lot
Speaker 1: of questions about James. Like the question about James Pears
Speaker 1: Junior is consistent effort, right. The question about Michael Williams
Speaker 1: is usage right, nix Sorrenton. I know that he can
Speaker 1: beat top flight pass protectors, right, Mike Green, I believe
Speaker 1: it because again your film is off the chain, but
Speaker 1: you have not shown me yet. And that's the thing
Speaker 1: that gets me a little bit concerned about Mike Green
Speaker 1: and why I would say for me that he's maybe
Speaker 1: not a top fifteen pick.
Speaker 2: Logan, Mike Green is Bruce Lee. He's fast, quick, athletic
Speaker 2: as anyone you'll ever see. He's maybe undersized, right, he
Speaker 2: don't care right, Like he's his hands are quick and fast.
Speaker 2: He's doing things that I haven't seen in a long
Speaker 2: time from a guy at his position. High motor, but
Speaker 2: here's the thing, right, what happens when Bruce Lee runs
Speaker 2: into Cliff Booth If anybody's ever seen Once upon a
Speaker 2: Time in Hollywood, Now, maybe Once upon a Time in
Speaker 2: Hollywood is a work of fiction, and that confrontation Cliff
Speaker 2: Booth isn't real, and that depiction of Bruce Lee never happened.
Speaker 2: But what if it did? And that's my concern with
Speaker 2: Mike Lee, right Like, I want Bruce Lee on my team.
Speaker 2: I love Bruceley. I'm a big enter the Dragon fan,
Speaker 2: loved watching it growing up, love everything about Bruce Lee.
Speaker 2: Honestly think he could whip a lot of people's asses,
Speaker 2: right Like, I didn't think it was just show, right,
Speaker 2: Bruce Lee was good. Yeah, But what happens when you
Speaker 2: meet somebody who's bigger, stronger, and doesn't care about the
Speaker 2: rules of mixed martial arts or karate and just kung fu.
Speaker 2: He's gonna take a barstool right like and fight you dirty,
Speaker 2: right which these big dudes, I'm not saying they're dirty,
Speaker 2: but I'm saying, like Josh Simmons, he's a big dude
Speaker 2: that doesn't care about your quick hands. He's just going
Speaker 2: to put his big mits on you. And say good luck. Now,
Speaker 2: I think Mike Green is going to have a successful career.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And I think Mike Green's gonna have a
Speaker 2: successful career. But you told me about the Senior Bowl thing.
Speaker 2: I bought into the hype of Mike Green blowing up
Speaker 2: Connolly on that play, and I want our fans if
Speaker 2: you don't believe logan right, there is YouTube clips of
Speaker 2: every one on one for Mike Green. You can search
Speaker 2: Mike Green Senior Bowl and you will get every single
Speaker 2: one on one. Go watch it and see for yourself,
Speaker 2: because he has that big play, But there's also other
Speaker 2: ones where it's like, eh, okay. So that's my concern.
Speaker 2: That's it. That's my only concern. But I think he's
Speaker 2: Bruce Lee and I would love Bruce Lye on my team,
Speaker 2: And I honestly think that he also can grow into
Speaker 2: these things, right, he can learn how to use these things,
Speaker 2: these excellent moves. He has to be effective against bigger,
Speaker 2: stronger guys and higher level competition. So the only reason
Speaker 2: I maybe sound like a Mike Green hater at the
Speaker 2: end of the day is because I just don't think
Speaker 2: that the national media and what they're saying about him
Speaker 2: like top fifteen, he's ready to go. I think he's
Speaker 2: still developmental. He has a lot of tools in the
Speaker 2: finesse department, but I still think he's developmental. And you
Speaker 2: have to understand if you're picking an edge rusher in
Speaker 2: the top fifteen, top ten. Even I've seen some guys
Speaker 2: have him go in the top ten and mock drafts
Speaker 2: like that's a that's a that's a lottery ticket, and
Speaker 2: you got to be careful, right, it's about value and
Speaker 2: as you say, risk assessment assessment right, and risk is
Speaker 2: a version right, Like that's my thing with Mike Green.
Speaker 2: I still think he may be the number two, number three,
Speaker 2: number four, number five best pass rusher. I don't know
Speaker 2: what vari stays today, but I wouldn't sit back and say, oh,
Speaker 2: he had a great play at the Senior Bowl and
Speaker 2: he dominated at Marshall. So here's our number two guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's he's our third guy because his film
Speaker 1: is that good. I mean, it's it's incredible, man like,
Speaker 1: he's he's an absolute Yeah, he's an absolute maniac. Like
Speaker 1: running down screens, he's fitting runs, he's killing guards, he's
Speaker 1: getting quarterbacks like play action, pass his shot and shed stuff.
Speaker 1: Is great, but you know, he has thirty two inch arms,
Speaker 1: which is a little bit short for a pass rusher.
Speaker 1: He's sixty three, he's two fifty, So again, the lack
Speaker 1: of ideal length is something that's a little bit concerning.
Speaker 1: But I mean, the film is, the film speaks for herself.
Speaker 1: It's just versus top flight guys. How are you going
Speaker 1: to look? And I think the other two guys in
Speaker 1: the list just did better versus top flight competition, quite honestly.
Speaker 2: And let's talk about him. Let's do your number two,
Speaker 2: which is Shamar Stewart the other end at Texas A
Speaker 2: and M.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean he was a guy that I first
Speaker 1: watched before the Senior Bowl and I was like, man,
Speaker 1: he's built in a lab. You know, he's six '
Speaker 1: five and an eighth. He's two hundred and eighty two pounds,
Speaker 1: I want to say, and he's got thirty four thirty
Speaker 1: three and three force arms like he is a and
Speaker 1: he's built different, like he's jacked. And when you watch him,
Speaker 1: like he's big, he's got elite power, elite frame. He
Speaker 1: plays hard, like there was a play versus Mississippi State
Speaker 1: where the running back gets or they hit like a
Speaker 1: little shallow cross and it's going up the field. He
Speaker 1: from the defensive end spot after rushing the path, runs
Speaker 1: the receiver down and makes the tackle forty yards away.
Speaker 1: He comes out of the stack. On screens, he's you know,
Speaker 1: blowing up stuff in the run game. And then at
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl, man, he just looked physically dominant amongst
Speaker 1: some of you know, Emery Jones my tenth tackle on
Speaker 1: the list, a guy that I really like. He made
Speaker 1: him look like he wasn't even on the field, right,
Speaker 1: Like he just big, strong, physical everything you want, mentality
Speaker 1: is right, frames right. The one thing that really sticks
Speaker 1: out is there's a lack of technical development as a
Speaker 1: pass rusher. And how many secks did you have last year,
Speaker 1: Jason One?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's shocking one sack.
Speaker 1: So that's something again we talk about it on this
Speaker 1: show all the time, athlete effort and production, and so
Speaker 1: the athlete and the effort are there. Like I love
Speaker 1: his vibe. Like at the Senior Bowl he has this
Speaker 1: rep versu Emory Jones where he beats him off the edge,
Speaker 1: knocks the ball of the quarterback's hand, like yells to
Speaker 1: the crowd like like I'm him all this stuff going
Speaker 1: crazy and like that. I like, I love that about him.
Speaker 1: But the production it just wasn't there to match the frame.
Speaker 1: And I think that's I'm betting on the fact that
Speaker 1: that's a outlier not the rule. But yeah, man, love him,
Speaker 1: love the tape, love the effort just to productions that
Speaker 1: all the way there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was technically one and a half sack.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing, though, his tackles went up pretty
Speaker 2: pretty significantly, Like he had thirty one total tackles as
Speaker 2: compared to eleven year before. Like, I think that he
Speaker 2: showed improvement in run stopping, and I think he's an
Speaker 2: a plus run stopper. I think he has a good
Speaker 2: ability to shed off and chase down a play. And
Speaker 2: that is interesting because I look at some guys and
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, the pass rush, that's kind of what
Speaker 2: we care about all the time, especially at the top end,
Speaker 2: or it seems like that's what we care about all
Speaker 2: the time. But this dude, this dude can stop the
Speaker 2: run like he can go. He's not just going to
Speaker 2: be well, you're just a pass rush specialist. Some of
Speaker 2: these guys on the list may be that when they
Speaker 2: first come out, but it looks like he can be
Speaker 2: an every down player. To me, he looks like an
Speaker 2: absolute monster in the run game.
Speaker 1: No, I think that's exactly right. And he and he,
Speaker 1: they him and him in scord and they kind of
Speaker 1: move all around the front three technique five, technique four
Speaker 1: I defensive end, stand up rusher like they do it
Speaker 1: all so but again, like he just is physically what
Speaker 1: you want at the position. He plays it with the
Speaker 1: right mentality. Like you know, we talked about Femi all
Speaker 1: the day Joe from UCLA. Like, imagine Femi old day
Speaker 1: Joe if he was two inches taller, thirty pounds heavier,
Speaker 1: and just like that's how he plays. And I love it.
Speaker 1: And to me, he's one of my favorite players, if
Speaker 1: not my favorite player in the draft. And again, the
Speaker 1: lack of production is a little bit alarming, but I'm
Speaker 1: hoping that you get him with the right coach and
Speaker 1: you get him in the right situation and he figures
Speaker 1: it out.
Speaker 2: Logan, it's time for the number one. I think this
Speaker 2: is relatively consensus at this point amongst most people that
Speaker 2: cover the draft, and I want you to compliment Sandwich.
Speaker 2: You're number one. Tell me why he's great. Why is
Speaker 2: the consensus? Why everyone's seen the same thing? Tell me,
Speaker 2: like he is he like an absolute sure thing because
Speaker 2: you could go number two overall, there's some k mocks
Speaker 2: that have on that is going an absolute share thing.
Speaker 2: And then if he's not, why and then end it
Speaker 2: with but man, the team that gets him and maybe
Speaker 2: it's the Commanders. You never know. I can dream being
Speaker 2: a Penn State guy, like why we would love him
Speaker 2: when a team like this? So go go.
Speaker 1: Ahead, Yeah, so I think you're looking. And we just
Speaker 1: talked about all these different guys and the past rush
Speaker 1: ability and the size and the strength and how they
Speaker 1: play and all those different things. Abdu Carter has the
Speaker 1: best get off I have ever seen drafting, like watching
Speaker 1: defensive ends. His twitch, his burst, is explosiveness is absolutely
Speaker 1: game changing from a past rush standpoint, like, he's not
Speaker 1: not even that refined as a pass rusher, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: His ability to anticipate and explode out of his stance
Speaker 1: puts the tackle under pressure. Every single play he literally
Speaker 1: end up in a pass rushing situation. Not being a
Speaker 1: good pass rusher affects passes every He watched the Notre
Speaker 1: Dame game the first ten dropbacks, he's getting pressures like
Speaker 1: I would classify them as a pressure on the quarterback.
Speaker 2: He's injured in that game too, he's playing hurt.
Speaker 1: His shoulders jacked up right, Yeah, and then his ability
Speaker 1: to drop into space, cover grass, open his hips like
Speaker 1: he is incredibly unique as an athlete, like he can again,
Speaker 1: not a huge library of pass rush moves, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't even matter, Like you are, he is physically better
Speaker 1: than everybody else in this draft class from a get
Speaker 1: off speed standpoint, Like it's not even close, Like not
Speaker 1: even close. And I don't know what it is. If
Speaker 1: it's how he anticipates the snap clown or if it's
Speaker 1: just like he's physically wired to do that. He is
Speaker 1: a special, special spell show football player. The negative thing
Speaker 1: about him, I think his frame is a little bit slight.
Speaker 1: He does not have a full myriad of pass rush moves.
Speaker 1: He's only he's new to the position, so he's a
Speaker 1: little bit raw, a little bit reckless at times with
Speaker 1: his shoulders, specifically in terms of how he takes on
Speaker 1: blocks and moves around. So I think that's that's the
Speaker 1: negative element to him. But dude, if by some like
Speaker 1: crazy circumstance, he ended up a Washington commander and he
Speaker 1: was I don't know, like you traded up for him
Speaker 1: or something like that. Like he is incredibly unique. He
Speaker 1: wears number eleven. He reminds me of Michael Parsons, that
Speaker 1: same type of burst. He doesn't have that same strength necessarily,
Speaker 1: but his burst is incredible, Like it's incredible. So that's
Speaker 1: why he's number one.
Speaker 2: I just why why isn't he perfect? Is he perfect?
Speaker 1: No? I just said he's a little undersized, a little
Speaker 1: undersized little bit with his body, doesn't have a doesn't
Speaker 1: have a full you know, a library of pass rush
Speaker 1: moves because he relies so much on his get off
Speaker 1: of his explosiveness. But man like he is like he was.
Speaker 2: But you're saying things that feel like other than size.
Speaker 2: You're saying these are things that it's like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: he's it doesn't have all these things yet, but it
Speaker 2: seems like those are things he could learn and grow
Speaker 2: into and he's just kind of scratched a surface. Are
Speaker 2: you saying that that's what makes him so special and unique?
Speaker 2: Is that even these negatives that you're seeing or not negatives,
Speaker 2: but like, eh, like that that kind of thing that
Speaker 2: you've seen of them are like, oh, but that it's
Speaker 2: just that could go away.
Speaker 1: It's just when you see a guy who can do
Speaker 1: what he does from a get off movement standpoint, like
Speaker 1: he's just he's he's starting a race five yards ahead
Speaker 1: of everybody else, and it doesn't matter how efficient you are,
Speaker 1: necessarily right, Like, there's a couple of times where you
Speaker 1: know he's playing this tackle from college, the tackle gets
Speaker 1: a good position, but he's able to kind of just
Speaker 1: pull himself around run the edge, like just straight run
Speaker 1: around it, get a sack. So to me, the developmental
Speaker 1: element of his game is almost a positive because he's
Speaker 1: going to learn more, he's going to get better. But
Speaker 1: the frame is a little concerning because again he's got
Speaker 1: the shoulder injury. But again I think that shows competitive toughness.
Speaker 1: He plays through that injury. The whole game affects the game.
Speaker 1: So you said number two, I think he's a number
Speaker 1: I think he's the first pick in the draft. He's
Speaker 1: the best player on my board right now.
Speaker 2: So like even with Travis Hunter out there.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely interesting. Yeah, his ability to affect
Speaker 1: the game every single play is right at the forefront.
Speaker 1: And you look at what an elite pass rusher can
Speaker 1: do for a defense. Go no further than Michael Parsons
Speaker 1: or Miles Garrett. And that's kind of the same sphere
Speaker 1: we're talking about with this player. I don't know why,
Speaker 1: how if you're Tennessee unless you're going quarterback, how you
Speaker 1: don't take Abdull Carter at number one?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I love hearing this Being a Penn
Speaker 2: State fan. I'm going to try and remove my confirmation
Speaker 2: bias as a Penn Safe fan watching him, wanting to
Speaker 2: think he's the greatest pass rusher I've ever seen in
Speaker 2: my life. The things that I could see if they
Speaker 2: were negative, if I could find him, and I was
Speaker 2: thinking back to like just what I noticed when watching
Speaker 2: as a fan, Like I'd be like, ah, he doesn't
Speaker 2: always see what the blocking scheme is that's in front
Speaker 2: of him. He's a tiny bit slow sometimes in dissecting
Speaker 2: what the play is that's happening in front of him,
Speaker 2: and bull rushes are hid and mess for him, and
Speaker 2: if he doesn't win them immediately, he'll slow down and go, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'll just wait for something to develop in front of
Speaker 2: me and then attack that. Now, that attack that is
Speaker 2: this is the best athlete that Penn State has seen
Speaker 2: in a long time, right, Like, I love watching him play.
Speaker 2: I just love it. And I think he is going
Speaker 2: to be a I think immediately, he is going to
Speaker 2: be an impact player for a team immediately. And it's
Speaker 2: one of those things where like his frame that you're
Speaker 2: talking about, like and we talked about it with and Green, right, Like,
Speaker 2: there are guys that when you have this sort of
Speaker 2: upper echelon athleticism, it doesn't always matter. And I want
Speaker 2: to think of like Will Anderson, right, smaller frame guy
Speaker 2: but just didn't matter, doesn't matter, And like some guys
Speaker 2: are just that elite with their athleticism and their twitchiness
Speaker 2: and what they can do physically, and then when they
Speaker 2: start polishing up the techniques, it's just devastating.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely, And so yeah, he's a number one player
Speaker 1: on my board as of right now, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to watch more Travis Hunter, but right now, like he's
Speaker 1: the guy, and there's a reason because he's crazy explosive,
Speaker 1: he's crazy twitchy, he's crazy competitive, and I think the
Speaker 1: sky's a little bit for him from an athletic standpoint. Now,
Speaker 1: interview's got to go well, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he's a special football player.
Speaker 2: All right, here we go for the nerds. It's that
Speaker 2: time again. We're going to do this every time we
Speaker 2: do top tens or top whatever at every position. I
Speaker 2: want you to give me two words describe players. We're
Speaker 2: going to talk about some extras, some pass rushers that
Speaker 2: you watched, and it's like, just keep an eye on them.
Speaker 2: They're going to be later round guys. They're maybe not eleven, twelve, thirteen,
Speaker 2: fourteen to fifteen on your list, or just guys that
Speaker 2: kind of stood out. Maybe they're third round guys, fourth
Speaker 2: round guys, fifth round guys. Maybe they're even seventh or
Speaker 2: undrafted free agents at some point. But it's like, man,
Speaker 2: this guy, there's just something about them. I saw a trait,
Speaker 2: two traits that raise an eyebrow for me. And I'm
Speaker 2: going to start. You have on your list here Jared
Speaker 2: Ivy from Old Miss.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that Ole Miss defensive line was pretty incredible with
Speaker 1: prince Ly o'maniela right, also from Old Miss. He's the opposite.
Speaker 1: He's six six, he's two eighty five, he's got thirty
Speaker 1: three and a quarter in charms, Like big dude, kind
Speaker 1: of again great in the run game, great instincts, a
Speaker 1: little bit sluggish, but has like this nice basketball kind
Speaker 1: of lazy guy, old man fluidity where he's able to
Speaker 1: get by pass rushers yet or pass protector of the
Speaker 1: eight sacks last year inside outside really impressed them at
Speaker 1: the senior bawl like this college tape. A lot worry
Speaker 1: about the work ethic and the drive, but man, is
Speaker 1: he physically Is he impressive? And I think he could
Speaker 1: be a really positive impact inside or outside for a
Speaker 1: bunch of different teams.
Speaker 2: Hey a guy that has a variety of pass rush
Speaker 2: moves and is twitched up at least I thought, is
Speaker 2: Donovan as Araku from moist in College? Tell me about him?
Speaker 1: To Donovan as Araku, I really wanted badly to get
Speaker 1: him in this list. But again, great length, thirty four
Speaker 1: inch arms, he's sixty two, a little undersize, but great bend,
Speaker 1: great physicality. There are times where I think he gets
Speaker 1: eaten up by larger pass rush, by larger pass protectors,
Speaker 1: and I worry about him in the run game, But dude,
Speaker 1: he's got the juice man, and I think you'll see
Speaker 1: him in a lot of people's top one hundred, Top
Speaker 1: probably seventy five type player in my opinion. So for me,
Speaker 1: he would be the eleventh guy, tenth or eleventh guy
Speaker 1: on my list. Like, I really went back and forth
Speaker 1: a lot. Love his ability to play like that spinner
Speaker 1: kind of like rushing over the nose, rushing over a guard.
Speaker 1: Got a great feel for a pass rush. Worry a
Speaker 1: little bit. But the reason he didn't make my list
Speaker 1: about his top end closing speed. I think he can
Speaker 1: win as a rusher, but I'm not sure if he
Speaker 1: can close to a more athletic quarterback, but great football player.
Speaker 1: Size concerns, closing speed concerns, But as a rusher man,
Speaker 1: it doesn't get much better than him.
Speaker 2: Hey, logan from Ohio State is Jack Sawyer, And to me,
Speaker 2: he's a what you see is what you get kind
Speaker 2: of a guy, very savvy. Tell me what you saw
Speaker 2: from him?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jack Sawyer. I've seen a lot of people have
Speaker 1: him as the top forty player and I just didn't
Speaker 1: get it. So, Like, he plays really hard, he's physical,
Speaker 1: he's instinctive, all those different things, but it looks like
Speaker 1: he's got short arms and it looks like like he
Speaker 1: lacks top flight athleticism. So for me, I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't under I don't really understand like where the
Speaker 1: value is. Again, he plays hard, but I think there's
Speaker 1: guys that we've talked about who play harder. Like he's
Speaker 1: got good instincts, but I think there's guys that are
Speaker 1: more instinctive, and sometimes I think guys get caught up
Speaker 1: in drafting the helmet a little bit. And you see
Speaker 1: the big play that he had the National Championship with
Speaker 1: the interception, and he's a guy to me that I
Speaker 1: think will go very high because the consensus seems to
Speaker 1: be very high in him. But maybe I got to
Speaker 1: watch more film. So if you're a Jack Sawyer fan,
Speaker 1: leave a comment, tell me why I'm wrong. But he's
Speaker 1: a guy that I'm a little on the fence about
Speaker 1: and I don't understand why he's getting all this like
Speaker 1: top forty five buzz and.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about this every time. You mentioned
Speaker 2: it in the podcast at some point, but you mentioned like,
Speaker 2: because you can't change it, right, you either got long
Speaker 2: arms or you got short arms. And you're saying, like,
Speaker 2: he looks like he's got some short arms. Why does
Speaker 2: that matter?
Speaker 1: It matters because it like these past protectors are huge man.
Speaker 1: They've you know, the minimum threshold's like thirty three and
Speaker 1: a half inch arms, and so these big dudes, these
Speaker 1: heavy guys, especially in the NFL, who are good athletes,
Speaker 1: better athletes, and you can reach out and touch you
Speaker 1: before you can touch them, like they're going to eat
Speaker 1: you up. They'll mess around, man. So I just don't
Speaker 1: know if I saw like enough elevation, like like we
Speaker 1: talked about, you know, James Pearce Junior, Michael Williams, you
Speaker 1: know Landon Jackson, any of these guys Ola deejo Oli,
Speaker 1: like there was a they're at a level now, but
Speaker 1: they have the physical traits to keep developing. And I
Speaker 1: just worry that Jack Sawyer is kind of maxed out,
Speaker 1: you know, because he doesn't look like his longest arms.
Speaker 1: Not the greatest athlete in the world, and most people
Speaker 1: who talk to will acknowledge that they're banking on the
Speaker 1: foot ball like you to get them. To me, that's
Speaker 1: a big lift to him for him to take that
Speaker 1: next step at the NFL level.
Speaker 2: All Right, we only have a couple more next up.
Speaker 2: As Jordan Birch from Oregon.
Speaker 1: This was the most frustrating watch for me of anybody
Speaker 1: in this group. He is maybe the most physically gifted
Speaker 1: guy on this list. He's listed at six ' six
Speaker 1: two hundred and eighty five two hundred ninety five pounds.
Speaker 1: Depending on where you watch him, there are times where
Speaker 1: you see him play with elite power, like knocking people
Speaker 1: on their asses, like totally smoking offensive lineman, compressing the pocket,
Speaker 1: taking on blockers and pullers, and see him dropping into
Speaker 1: space like a dB. However, the effort is not consistent.
Speaker 1: Like I called someone at Oregon and it was like,
Speaker 1: what's the deal with him? It's like when he wants
Speaker 1: to be he is any in any situation. He's the
Speaker 1: most athletic, best football player on the field, five star recruit,
Speaker 1: and it looks to me like every he has just
Speaker 1: been the best player his entire life. He hasn't really
Speaker 1: cultivated a myriad of pass rush moves like he plays
Speaker 1: inside outside. He's a bigger body guy obviously, but for me,
Speaker 1: like the athleticism, the physicality, it's there. It's just the
Speaker 1: consistency and the passion and the want to so like
Speaker 1: I just saw a list today where he's a he's
Speaker 1: a top fifty player, and I get why, but I'm
Speaker 1: also like he seems like a guy that could get
Speaker 1: you fired, right because he is so talented, but he's
Speaker 1: not going to give it everything he's got all the time.
Speaker 1: And so I just feel like I had to bring
Speaker 1: him up because again, the measurables, the athleticism, the movement
Speaker 1: skills are all there, but just a frustrating because you
Speaker 1: don't see it all the time, and you're just like,
Speaker 1: why can't you do this you're physically capable of doing
Speaker 1: all the time. Why don't we see it more?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So here's just what I saw. He looks like
Speaker 2: a souped up F one fifty, right, He's just he's explosive,
Speaker 2: but every now and then, like it seems like his
Speaker 2: gas is on empty, Like that's what it looks like
Speaker 2: to me. Like it's just here's this big soup up
Speaker 2: F one fifty that rolls up and it's like got
Speaker 2: a four cylinder engine in it when you pop the hood.
Speaker 2: And I don't know why that is. I'm not going
Speaker 2: to say it's effort or not. I don't know. But
Speaker 2: there are times where like he he gets tossed around.
Speaker 2: You see it. Why you're huge, right, he doesn't play
Speaker 2: the run game. Well, why you're explosive, Like I there's
Speaker 2: something off. I don't I'm not gonna say it's effort
Speaker 2: because I don't know, but I will say that there
Speaker 2: is something there that I think that interviews and the
Speaker 2: combine is going to be absolutely critical for him.
Speaker 1: Yes, I totally agree. I think that. I think the
Speaker 1: f one fifty example is crazy. It's all there, it
Speaker 1: looks great, but it's like, bro, why not all the time?
Speaker 1: Like I was watching the Him versus Ohio State and
Speaker 1: it's like he's blowing people up, and you're like, he
Speaker 1: has a sequence where he's a sequence where he's atographer
Speaker 1: loss a sack and pressure and basically forces a punt
Speaker 1: and then doesn't do anything for the rest of the half,
Speaker 1: and you're kind of like why why not? Like why
Speaker 1: are we not doing that? More so, it's He's an
Speaker 1: interesting watch, but physically a freak from Morgan.
Speaker 2: The next one is from Texas, Baron Sorel. I think
Speaker 2: I'm seeing that right b A R R Y N
Speaker 2: Baron bar Run. Maybe the Baron Sorrel from Texas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so a guy that is not exceptional in any
Speaker 1: kind of physical measurement. He's six four, he's two fifty five,
Speaker 1: kind of right down the middle. But a guy that
Speaker 1: is just a good football player. Man. I think he
Speaker 1: really stood out to the Senior Bowl, went and watched
Speaker 1: his tape. Has kind of a bunch of different ways
Speaker 1: to beat you understands pass, rushing out a high level,
Speaker 1: plays hard, good physicality. Again, he's not a name that's
Speaker 1: gonna like, you know, he's not Jordan Birch. Where he
Speaker 1: comes off the bus, You're like, oh my god, look
Speaker 1: at this guy. He's just a solid, good football player.
Speaker 1: And there are there are his tremendous value to those guys,
Speaker 1: especially you know, third fourth round range for the commanders,
Speaker 1: like I'd be stoked if he was a Washington commander.
Speaker 2: And speaking of stoked, if guys could be a Washington commander.
Speaker 2: The last one is Savion Jones from LSU Logan. I'm
Speaker 2: going to say this. I enjoyed watching him because he's big,
Speaker 2: and he loves violent contact and even he wants it right,
Speaker 2: he invites it. That's why I love it. So tell
Speaker 2: me a little bit about Savion Jones.
Speaker 1: I think we see it exactly the same way. Man.
Speaker 1: He's a big, violent human. He runs and finishes to
Speaker 1: the football and the floor to that player is tremendously high.
Speaker 1: Right he just you can tell he likes football, he
Speaker 1: likes contact. He's violent, he's relatively intuitive. He's stiff. He's
Speaker 1: a stiff human being. Like he's big. He's kind of
Speaker 1: got like this, you know, like lurch type of running style,
Speaker 1: but likes he gets to where he's got to go.
Speaker 1: Like he watched a Senior Bowl game, he's running running
Speaker 1: backs down from behind. He gets a sack and a
Speaker 1: half because he's just finishing to the football like the Florida.
Speaker 1: A player like that is big. He could probably play inside,
Speaker 1: play outside. But I really liked him at the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: I liked his tape because it's exactly the same player
Speaker 1: that you saw at the Senior Bowl. And so again,
Speaker 1: high floor, high effort player that again may never be
Speaker 1: your top flight pass rusher the way that some of
Speaker 1: these guys are, but there's no question that he'll be
Speaker 1: a first and second down rotational piece minimum In the end.
Speaker 2: Logan, we did it. We talked about a ton of
Speaker 2: edge rushers. This is a great class. I love the
Speaker 2: depth of it. Like I said, there's Abdul Carter and
Speaker 2: there's a couple guys at the top. That's Abdul Carter
Speaker 2: is a blue tripper. There's a couple guys at the
Speaker 2: top that are going to be very good pros. I'm
Speaker 2: just I'm super excited about the edge rushers, watching them
Speaker 2: at the combine and moving through this process, and I
Speaker 2: have a sneaking suspicion that at somewhere in the draft,
Speaker 2: this is going to be a position that the Commanders
Speaker 2: are targeting. So I think one of the guys we
Speaker 2: talked about or that we were going to be watching
Speaker 2: in the next couple of months is going to be
Speaker 2: a commander. And I can't wait, because this is a
Speaker 2: good class. This is a good class.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great class. Maybe the peak, you know, outside
Speaker 1: the two guys you know, should we Stuart and Abdell Carter.
Speaker 1: But I think there's a lot of good football players
Speaker 1: and a lot of people are going to impact your
Speaker 1: team right now. And yeah, so I definitely think this
Speaker 1: is somewhere where the Washington Commanders could get a lot
Speaker 1: of really good value.
Speaker 2: Hey fans, we love your comments, we do, we really
Speaker 2: love them. Tell us who you want to us to
Speaker 2: evaluate next, what position? Tell us what you thought of
Speaker 2: our takes if you like them, if you don't like them,
Speaker 2: I'm just a guy. So if you say my takes
Speaker 2: are terrible, you're probably right. I don't know what I'm
Speaker 2: talking about. I'm just watching football. But if you want
Speaker 2: to get on Logan, I'm sure Logan would love to
Speaker 2: hear what your opinions are. Logan, you're excellent at this.
Speaker 2: By the way. I love listening to you and doing
Speaker 2: these shows with you because I learn a lot. And
Speaker 2: one of the things that I said with my just
Speaker 2: a guy whateverisms is I said, there was a guy
Speaker 2: last week in O line who stares at his assignments,
Speaker 2: and we got a good comment about that and said, hey,
Speaker 2: that may be an easy fix. So Garon missing Berg said,
Speaker 2: for a player that has a problem with staring at assignments,
Speaker 2: why couldn't you just throw a dark visor on and
Speaker 2: now you're not watching his eyes anymore, And that could
Speaker 2: be a solution to a problem. And I texted you
Speaker 2: about that and I was like, actually, that's a pretty
Speaker 2: creative solution. I'm not mad at it. So Logan, you
Speaker 2: played in the NFL for ten years. You were a
Speaker 2: tight end, so you had to get up there with
Speaker 2: the big uglies and block some guys. Could you've just
Speaker 2: thrown on a dark visor and still stared down assignments?
Speaker 2: Would that have worked for you? And why not?
Speaker 1: So a couple of things. One with a dark vice,
Speaker 1: you can't wear them anymore in the NFL unless you
Speaker 1: get a medical exemption. So people used to wear them
Speaker 1: all the time when I first got in, But because
Speaker 1: of the concussion risk, they need to be able to
Speaker 1: evaluate you through the helmet. They've basically made it impossible
Speaker 1: to get a dark visor now. So that's one thing
Speaker 1: for the NFL that would make that very challenging. However,
Speaker 1: in addition to the eye looking, most of the time
Speaker 1: you're looking at stripes. So what I mean by that
Speaker 1: is like you get the stripe down the middle of
Speaker 1: the helmet, and that's a thing that's tipping you off.
Speaker 1: So sometimes like guys will lean a little bit and
Speaker 1: their head, their whole head will turn a little bit,
Speaker 1: and you'll kind of see the whole stripe kind of
Speaker 1: go in the direction. So I think this is this
Speaker 1: sounds to me like more of a coaching thing, like
Speaker 1: just like hey man, you know, like keep your stripe
Speaker 1: facing forward and then you can use your eyes and
Speaker 1: your periphera to track the pieces that you need to
Speaker 1: track in terms of blocking assignment. And again, there are
Speaker 1: some really good defensive players that like as you're walking
Speaker 1: to the line of scrimmage, they're looking at your eyes
Speaker 1: because you tend to kind of pre evaluate where the
Speaker 1: defense is and they get really good at that. That's
Speaker 1: a whole different battle of wax. We can talk about
Speaker 1: it another time, but I think right now, to me,
Speaker 1: it's just keeping your head nice and neutral up the
Speaker 1: field and making sure that we emphasize that from a
Speaker 1: coaching standpoint, because the dark visor, while a great idea,
Speaker 1: does not handle the stripe and is now illegal. So
Speaker 1: can't do that, kids.
Speaker 2: He can't do it. But I loved that comment because
Speaker 2: it made me time go man, that's out of the
Speaker 2: bucks thinking and I love it. So thanks Logan. I
Speaker 2: appreciate you breaking that down for me and for our
Speaker 2: guy Gary. All Right, fans, thanks so much for listening Logan.
Speaker 2: Why don't you sign us off. We'll be back with
Speaker 2: another one next week. And also, if audio was a
Speaker 2: little off today, guys, bear with us. We had the
Speaker 2: snow when we were recording this. We were not in
Speaker 2: our normal podcast studio to record, so I tried to
Speaker 2: set this up remotely for Logan, and I so appreciate
Speaker 2: if the audio quality is not as great as it
Speaker 2: normally as I appreciate guys just bearing with us. We'll
Speaker 2: be back in studio soon, I promise, So, Logan, why
Speaker 2: don't you sign us off?
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks so much for listening. Please make sure you
Speaker 1: like to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We enjoy
Speaker 1: the comments, please keep leaving those, and yeah, if you
Speaker 1: have questions about specific prospects, please make sure you leave
Speaker 1: those in there as well. Thanks so much for joining
Speaker 1: in and tuning in with us and being with us
Speaker 1: on this pre combined post combine draft journey. But that's
Speaker 1: going to do it for today's show.