1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,880
Speaker 1: Hi, This is due to the virus I'm recording from home.

2
00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:09,360
Speaker 1: See you may notice a difference in audio quality on

3
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,800
Speaker 1: this episode of News World. After a tough year of

4
00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,680
Speaker 1: lockdowns and living through a global pandemic, I think many

5
00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,000
Speaker 1: of us are looking for a sign of hope, and

6
00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,439
Speaker 1: on December twenty first, the world may get just the

7
00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,120
Speaker 1: sign they are looking for in the night skies, when

8
00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,480
Speaker 1: Jupiter and Saturn come together to form a great light.

9
00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,760
Speaker 1: In the Bible, three wise men followed the Christmas Star

10
00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,280
Speaker 1: to baby Jesus, son of God, born in a major

11
00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,800
Speaker 1: as a central role in the Christmas story. Many people

12
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,640
Speaker 1: have debated whether the star was a real physical object

13
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,680
Speaker 1: or just a symbol of the light Jesus would bring

14
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,960
Speaker 1: into the world. When we look at science, it is

15
00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,960
Speaker 1: entirely possible that the Christmas Star was real. My guest

16
00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 1: refers to the Christmas Star by what it is in

17
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:05,760
Speaker 1: celestial astronomical terms, the Great Conjunction. I'm pleased to welcome

18
00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,600
Speaker 1: my guest, Doctor Henry Thrup Doctor Thrupe is a programmed

19
00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,039
Speaker 1: scientist in the Planetary Science Division of MASSA Headquarters. He

20
00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 1: focuses his research on the outer Solar systems and co

21
00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:36,440
Speaker 1: discovered Pluto's moan sticks in two twelve. In six BC,

22
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,800
Speaker 1: the Roman emperor Caesar Augustus ordered that the whole world

23
00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:46,080
Speaker 1: be taxed. In order to do so, every citizen had

24
00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,880
Speaker 1: to return to their ancestral villages. Among the thousands of

25
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,160
Speaker 1: travelers returning home to pay taxes were the virgin Mary

26
00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,360
Speaker 1: and her husband Joseph. Mary was pregnant, and on their

27
00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,760
Speaker 1: journey from Nazareth to Bethlehem, the verge and Mary began

28
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,920
Speaker 1: living the baby. The closest place to stop was an inn,

29
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,360
Speaker 1: but all the rooms were full, so they were sent

30
00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,960
Speaker 1: out to the manger, where Mary gave birth to the baby, Jesus,

31
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,400
Speaker 1: son of God. At the same time that Mary and

32
00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,080
Speaker 1: Joseph were traveling to Bethlehem, a bright star appeared in

33
00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:24,320
Speaker 1: the night sky. According to tradition, great celestial events signaled

34
00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,239
Speaker 1: the rise of kings and God's favor. Three wise men

35
00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,080
Speaker 1: knew that tradition and sense that this great star would

36
00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,359
Speaker 1: lead them to their savior, so they followed that star

37
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,040
Speaker 1: to an inn in Bethlehem, where they found Mary, Joseph,

38
00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:43,120
Speaker 1: and the newborn Jesus. In the Book of Matthew, chapter two,

39
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,320
Speaker 1: verse nine says quote low The star, which they saw

40
00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 1: in the east, went before them till it came and

41
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,160
Speaker 1: stood over where the young child was. The wise men

42
00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,359
Speaker 1: then followed the star all the way to Jesus. The

43
00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,120
Speaker 1: story of Jesus's birth is one of joy, light, and

44
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,680
Speaker 1: hope for the future. The star that signaled the birth

45
00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ and led the wise Men to their

46
00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,680
Speaker 1: savior became known as the Star of Bethlehem and later

47
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:15,320
Speaker 1: the Christmas Star. This Christmas star that led the Wise

48
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,280
Speaker 1: Men to Jesus has become an iconic symbol of Christianity

49
00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,920
Speaker 1: and the light we must follow. During the holiday season,

50
00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,959
Speaker 1: we see the star on top of Christmas trees and

51
00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,080
Speaker 1: in nativity scenes, all in reference to the original star

52
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 1: that introduced Jesus to the world. Stars symbolize emerging hope,

53
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,240
Speaker 1: God's plan for the world, and even the journey to

54
00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,640
Speaker 1: find God in our lives as the wise Men did.

55
00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 1: So many believe if the Christmas Star was just that

56
00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,520
Speaker 1: a biblical symbol. On the other side of the debate,

57
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,000
Speaker 1: some people think that the Christmas Star was a real,

58
00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:55,240
Speaker 1: physical celestial object. Scientifically, there is a possibility that Christmas

59
00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,400
Speaker 1: Star did exist. What is known today as what we

60
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:03,320
Speaker 1: call a great conject function. NASSAS issued a statement on

61
00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:08,760
Speaker 1: the Christmas Star. They say, quote Christmas Star, an especially

62
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:13,000
Speaker 1: vibrant planetary conjunction, will be easily visible in the evening

63
00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,599
Speaker 1: sky over the next two weeks as the bright planets

64
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,240
Speaker 1: Jupiter and Saturn come together, culminating on the night of

65
00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,280
Speaker 1: December twenty first. The event has become popularly known as

66
00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,719
Speaker 1: the Christmas Star. However, a conjunction between the planets could

67
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,200
Speaker 1: occur on any date throughout the year. The orbits of

68
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,360
Speaker 1: the planets have not changed significantly in billions of years.

69
00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,599
Speaker 1: Conjunctions between them have been occurring since long before humans

70
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,320
Speaker 1: were observing them. Jupiter and Saturn reach their closest apparent

71
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 1: separation and sky one December twenty first. In twenty twenty.

72
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,479
Speaker 1: This is on the same date as the winter solstice,

73
00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,440
Speaker 1: but this is essentially a coincidence. A conjunction between the

74
00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,600
Speaker 1: planets could occur on any date throughout the year, as

75
00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,440
Speaker 1: it has in the past. The date of the injunction

76
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 1: is determined by the positions of Jupiter, Saturn, and the

77
00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,800
Speaker 1: Earth in their pants around the Sun, while the date

78
00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,680
Speaker 1: of the solstice is determined by Earth's orbit and the

79
00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,520
Speaker 1: tilt of its axis for thousands of years people who

80
00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,920
Speaker 1: had a strong connection to events in the sky. Modern

81
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,360
Speaker 1: historians and astronomers have identified many cosmic events that can

82
00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,920
Speaker 1: be tied to culture or religion. There was a conjunction

83
00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,080
Speaker 1: between Saturn and Jupiter in the year seven BC. People

84
00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,960
Speaker 1: at the time could have observed and been inspired by

85
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,560
Speaker 1: this or other celestial events such as a comet, a supernova,

86
00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:41,440
Speaker 1: or an alignment between the stars and planets. And now

87
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,720
Speaker 1: to explain the scientific nature of the Christmas Star or

88
00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,520
Speaker 1: Great Conjunction, I'm really happy to welcome my guest, doctor

89
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,240
Speaker 1: Henry Throop. Doctor Throope is a programmed scientist and the

90
00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,880
Speaker 1: Planetary Science Division and that's the headquarters. He focuses his

91
00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,200
Speaker 1: research on the outer Solar systems and he co discovered

92
00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,600
Speaker 1: Pluto moons sticks in twenty and twelve. Before we get

93
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,360
Speaker 1: into the Great Conjunction, if you don't mind my ask

94
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:11,240
Speaker 1: Inductor group, how did you become interested in astronomy? Pleasure

95
00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:12,600
Speaker 1: to be here, Thanks so much for having me on

96
00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,239
Speaker 1: the show. So I went to undergraduate conference whenever a student,

97
00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,920
Speaker 1: and that was really my first exposure to astronomy. This

98
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,040
Speaker 1: particular conference was about Pluto I had really never known

99
00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,400
Speaker 1: anything about the Solar system or about astronomy before that.

100
00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,600
Speaker 1: There was very preliminated work being done on sending a

101
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,400
Speaker 1: mission up to Pluto, and which is really exciting, you know,

102
00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,000
Speaker 1: because it's a big unknown out there, and everybody at

103
00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,680
Speaker 1: the conference actually one evening got to go out and

104
00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,080
Speaker 1: look through a telescope to see Pluto. And what was

105
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 1: really neat is that not too many of even the

106
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,200
Speaker 1: scientists there had ever seen Pluto either. But it was

107
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,160
Speaker 1: really this direct connection of the sky being able to

108
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,480
Speaker 1: see Pluto through this historic old telescope at Low Observatory,

109
00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,560
Speaker 1: which is actually where Pluto was discovered. And this is

110
00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,840
Speaker 1: very much like what Galais was doing in sixteen ten

111
00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,000
Speaker 1: when he was observing Jupiter and Saturn with his telescope.

112
00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,719
Speaker 1: And so one thing led to another, and I eventually

113
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,040
Speaker 1: it up after I graduated to calling up the Jet

114
00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,360
Speaker 1: Pulsion Lab and making many many calls and Inkrews there

115
00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 1: to try to talk my way into a summer job there,

116
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,000
Speaker 1: and that led to graduate school, and that led to

117
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,080
Speaker 1: working as an astronomer in the field, being involved with

118
00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,440
Speaker 1: many of these great missions that we've have exploring the

119
00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,200
Speaker 1: Solar system. You might find it interesting that the media

120
00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,840
Speaker 1: has promoted the Christmas star story so much it's become

121
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:27,040
Speaker 1: the number one story trending on social media. People have

122
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,600
Speaker 1: had this connection to the sky for thousands of years.

123
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 1: I think it's not that much of a surprise that

124
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,280
Speaker 1: people have this connection to the sky. Now. You look

125
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,240
Speaker 1: at what happened in two seventeen when we had the

126
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,120
Speaker 1: solar eclipse which is going across the US, and you

127
00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 1: had tens of millions of people who went outside so

128
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,240
Speaker 1: they could see the moon go in front of the Sun.

129
00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:45,880
Speaker 1: And you look at the connection that people have had

130
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,440
Speaker 1: thousands of years ago, observing the motion of the planets,

131
00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 1: observing the moon, observing the Sun. This is something where

132
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,400
Speaker 1: just as humans, we love exploring the world around us,

133
00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,560
Speaker 1: and this connection to the sky. I think it is

134
00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,880
Speaker 1: one that has lasted for so long and is still

135
00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:13,560
Speaker 1: really intense and deep within people. This is Gianno Caldwell.

136
00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,640
Speaker 1: This week on Allow with Giano Caldwell, I'll talk to

137
00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,480
Speaker 1: one of America's favorite doctors, doctor Drew Pensky. Doctor Drew

138
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,280
Speaker 1: has been a fixture in America's conversation around public health

139
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,120
Speaker 1: and wellness for a generation, particularly when it comes to

140
00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,720
Speaker 1: addiction and addiction treatment. We cover all these topics, plus

141
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,280
Speaker 1: the Good Doctor thoughts on the rollout of a COVID

142
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,439
Speaker 1: vaccine and the aftermath of the presidential election. Listen to

143
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,520
Speaker 1: Allow with Giano Caldwell every Monday on the iHeartRadio app,

144
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:51,200
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. So, now,

145
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,719
Speaker 1: tell me about conjunctions. So what we're seeing in the

146
00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:00,320
Speaker 1: sky through the December is this conjunction between Jupiter and Saturn.

147
00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,800
Speaker 1: And you can think of the Solar system as a

148
00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,120
Speaker 1: race track. You know, you have the Sun at the center,

149
00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,760
Speaker 1: and then the Earth is pretty close to the center

150
00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 1: compared to the other planets. And then as you move

151
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,679
Speaker 1: further out, you have lanes for each of the planets

152
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,400
Speaker 1: as the orbiting around the Sun. And so you have

153
00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,079
Speaker 1: a lane for Jupiter, and you have a lane outside

154
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:17,839
Speaker 1: of that for Saturn, and then you know the other

155
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 1: planets Pluto and so forth, Uranus, Pluto and that scene

156
00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,839
Speaker 1: are further out there. And as you move further out,

157
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,760
Speaker 1: the planets move slower. They take longer in orbit for

158
00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,679
Speaker 1: two reasons. One as they have further to go, and

159
00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,240
Speaker 1: also they're moving slower because they're pulled less by the

160
00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,240
Speaker 1: gravity of the Sun. And so in the case of

161
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,640
Speaker 1: this conjunction, we have Jupiter and we have Saturn, and

162
00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,760
Speaker 1: Jupiter takes about twelve years to orbit the Sun. Saturn

163
00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,199
Speaker 1: takes about thirty years to orbit the Sun, and so

164
00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:48,680
Speaker 1: about every twenty years, Jupiter actually overtakes Saturn from our perspective,

165
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,280
Speaker 1: and so this is like you're at a track and

166
00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,679
Speaker 1: the faster runner on the inside lane is catching up

167
00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:59,040
Speaker 1: and overtaking the slower runner on the outside lane. And

168
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:00,800
Speaker 1: that's what we're seeing in the Solar System, is that

169
00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,880
Speaker 1: every twenty years, Jupiter passes Saturn in this orbit. And

170
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,720
Speaker 1: when it does that, you see these planets come together.

171
00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,920
Speaker 1: From our perspective on Earth. Now, they're not actually coming

172
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,600
Speaker 1: together in space. I mean they're coming together a little bit,

173
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,800
Speaker 1: but there's still hundreds of millions of kilometers away from

174
00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,920
Speaker 1: each other. But from our perspective, they're going to line

175
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,400
Speaker 1: up almost exactly. They're not going to be quite on

176
00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:22,920
Speaker 1: top of each other, but they will be about a

177
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,960
Speaker 1: tenth of a degree apart from each other in the sky.

178
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,079
Speaker 1: And so it's going to be a really dramatic sight

179
00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,000
Speaker 1: in the sky where you have these two bright plants,

180
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,160
Speaker 1: Jupiter and Saturn easy to see what you're in the

181
00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,839
Speaker 1: naked eye, and just as close as anything that you've

182
00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,200
Speaker 1: seen in the sky a tenth of a degree apart.

183
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,120
Speaker 1: If you extend your pinky out at arm's length, you'll

184
00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,319
Speaker 1: be easily able to cover both of them on the

185
00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,120
Speaker 1: night of the twenty first. As I understand that the

186
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,760
Speaker 1: three wise men in the Christmas story were actually astronomers

187
00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,559
Speaker 1: at the time when astronomy was a pretty big deal,

188
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,400
Speaker 1: and supposedly during the time of the Christmas Store around

189
00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,040
Speaker 1: six PC. The question would be whether they thought it

190
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,040
Speaker 1: was a star or the total was a conjunction. So

191
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,000
Speaker 1: people have been observing the sky for thousands of years,

192
00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,719
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of historic events from that

193
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,360
Speaker 1: time that might relate to what was seen back then.

194
00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,640
Speaker 1: A conjunction is certainly one possibility. So these conjunctions like

195
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,040
Speaker 1: this one between Jupiter and Saturn occurs about every twenty years.

196
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,480
Speaker 1: This one this time is super ray or super special

197
00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,360
Speaker 1: because it's a very close conjunction. There's tenth of a

198
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,360
Speaker 1: degree separation. But a conjunction on the order of a

199
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,079
Speaker 1: separation of a degree or so occurs about every twenty years.

200
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,719
Speaker 1: There was a conjunction between Jupiter and Saturn around the

201
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:37,120
Speaker 1: year six BC. This could be what was referred to

202
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,080
Speaker 1: the Star of Bethlehem at the time. There are other

203
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,880
Speaker 1: events in the sky that certainly people could have seen

204
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,360
Speaker 1: and could be inspired by as well. There's comets, which

205
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,680
Speaker 1: even now commas can appear in the sky. There are

206
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,040
Speaker 1: supernovas and novas, which are stars which essentially get brighter

207
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,400
Speaker 1: for some period of time. There's also alignments between a

208
00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,120
Speaker 1: planet and a star which can be of interest to people.

209
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,720
Speaker 1: So there's a lot in the historical record which could

210
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,080
Speaker 1: have inspired what people call the star battlehem I went

211
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,640
Speaker 1: to the Hayden planet hum one time and they were

212
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,480
Speaker 1: going through all these various permutations of things it might

213
00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,839
Speaker 1: have been. At that particular time, it seemed more plausible

214
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,040
Speaker 1: that it was something like a nova then that it

215
00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,959
Speaker 1: was a great conjunction, just because of the brightness of it.

216
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,160
Speaker 1: People at in the time certainly would have been watching

217
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,400
Speaker 1: the motions of the planets. It was very clear to

218
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,160
Speaker 1: them that there's a difference between the planets and the stars,

219
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,880
Speaker 1: and anybody at the time could have gone outside and

220
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,160
Speaker 1: you could see the planets. The planets really appeared differently

221
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,800
Speaker 1: than the stars. They look like points of light. But

222
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,960
Speaker 1: what's different about planets They move every night, so every

223
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,320
Speaker 1: night they're in a different position, and so the motion

224
00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,439
Speaker 1: the planets would have been something that anybody if the era,

225
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,760
Speaker 1: could have easily seen and could have predicted. Certainly later

226
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,400
Speaker 1: soon after this, Ptolemy, who's the Greek astronomery about one

227
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 1: hundred years later, was in the business of picting the

228
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,599
Speaker 1: motions of planets, and it wasn't at least in the

229
00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,040
Speaker 1: air of Tolmy. It would not have been entirely surprised

230
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 1: to have a conjunction here. And whether it was a conjunction,

231
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,719
Speaker 1: whether it was a nowhere, whether it's a comment, the

232
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,400
Speaker 1: historical record is really incomplete there, and I think that

233
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,400
Speaker 1: there's continued debate between historians and scholars on exactly what

234
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,800
Speaker 1: it could have been. But without more observations from the area,

235
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:32,160
Speaker 1: it's a little hard to tell. Student loan debt is

236
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,199
Speaker 1: only a crisis for the most privileged whiners in American

237
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,400
Speaker 1: society today, and on this week's Rob Smith is problematic.

238
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,679
Speaker 1: I dig into the scam that is the student loan

239
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,120
Speaker 1: debt crisis, how winey left these need to take responsibility

240
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 1: for the choices they've made, how elite institutions are robbing

241
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,719
Speaker 1: students blind, and how the rest of us shouldn't have

242
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,520
Speaker 1: to pay for other people's poor choices. Listen to Rob

243
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,720
Speaker 1: Smith is Problematic every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

244
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:11,079
Speaker 1: Podcasts or were ever you get your podcasts. Some people

245
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,480
Speaker 1: thought there might be a triple conjunction of Saturn, Jupiter,

246
00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,920
Speaker 1: and Mars. Do those happen very open? A conjunction between

247
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 1: the three planets is pretty rare. A conjunction between Jupiter

248
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,680
Speaker 1: and Saturn happens about every twenty years when they pass

249
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,240
Speaker 1: each other at conjunction, which includes Mars as well. That

250
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 1: would be on the order of every tens of thousands

251
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,080
Speaker 1: of years, and we don't know of one that happened

252
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,720
Speaker 1: in that era. There was sometimes people talk about a

253
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,840
Speaker 1: triple conjunction from that era, which was in fact not

254
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 1: where three different planets and the sky were aligned, but

255
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,800
Speaker 1: where Jupiter and Saturn were aligned and then separated, and

256
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,720
Speaker 1: then were aligned and separated and then aligned and separated again.

257
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,320
Speaker 1: So this is essentially where the retrograde motion of the

258
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,200
Speaker 1: stars over the planets, they take loops through the sky

259
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,680
Speaker 1: during a portion of the orbit, and this is essentially

260
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,280
Speaker 1: where the retrograde loops of the planets lapped, causing Jupiter

261
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,240
Speaker 1: and Saturn to approach each other and then separate multiple

262
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,600
Speaker 1: times during the season. Well they did that, would that

263
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,320
Speaker 1: be like short period in between each separation or a

264
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:15,200
Speaker 1: long periode or if they're engaged in that kind of looping. Yeah,

265
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,960
Speaker 1: So the retrograde loops are due to the motion of

266
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,640
Speaker 1: the Earth around the Sun, and the period for that

267
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:23,920
Speaker 1: motion is a year. So these loops take on the

268
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,440
Speaker 1: order of months. It depends on the motion of all

269
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,840
Speaker 1: the planets involved. But all these motions the planets that

270
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,720
Speaker 1: we're talking about, including the conjunction itself, are things which

271
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,280
Speaker 1: move slowly. You know, you see a change from one

272
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,160
Speaker 1: night to the next night. Jupiter and Saturn, for instance,

273
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,040
Speaker 1: I've been watching them all summer and into the fall.

274
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,720
Speaker 1: They were many degrees apart during the summer, and they've

275
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,600
Speaker 1: gotten closer and closer and closer. They're about a half

276
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 1: a degree apart now, and at the time of the conjunction,

277
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:50,600
Speaker 1: they're going to get down to a tenth of a

278
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:55,120
Speaker 1: degree and then they're going to slowly separate after that. Proximately,

279
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,280
Speaker 1: when will the conjunction occur. So the conjunction is going

280
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,680
Speaker 1: to be on December twenty first. It will basically be

281
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,600
Speaker 1: that distance for a day or so where they will

282
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,560
Speaker 1: be very close to each other. This is not something

283
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,040
Speaker 1: where if you miss it on the twenty first, you're

284
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,480
Speaker 1: gonna miss it. It's a really compelling site to go

285
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,760
Speaker 1: outside and look at Jupiter and Saturn in the sky

286
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,320
Speaker 1: now and in the days leading up the conjunction, and

287
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,400
Speaker 1: also in the days and weeks after the conjunction as

288
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,920
Speaker 1: they separate up. It's there are two bright objects in

289
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:23,920
Speaker 1: the sky. It's rare that you see things which are

290
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,120
Speaker 1: this bright this close to each other in the sky.

291
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,840
Speaker 1: And then this should happen again in about twenty years,

292
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,840
Speaker 1: is that right? So we have a conjunction between Jupiter

293
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,240
Speaker 1: and Saturn every twenty years, just as this Jupiter's this

294
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,560
Speaker 1: faster inner runner on the racetrack, and so every twenty

295
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,480
Speaker 1: years it's going to pass Saturn. Two things are going

296
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,280
Speaker 1: to affect how much excitement there is in seeing this conjunction.

297
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,920
Speaker 1: One is whether it's happening during the daytime or the nighttime.

298
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:49,960
Speaker 1: And just like the moon is up half the time

299
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,320
Speaker 1: during the daytime and half time during the nighttime. During

300
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,840
Speaker 1: some conjunction seasons, Jupiter and Saturn are going to be

301
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 1: up during the daytime rather than the nighttime, so no

302
00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:58,680
Speaker 1: one's going to see them. Last time they were this

303
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,280
Speaker 1: close is this conjunct. This tenth of a degree was

304
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,119
Speaker 1: back in the air of Galileo sixteen twenty three. That

305
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,640
Speaker 1: was during the daytime, and so it's not even clear

306
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,919
Speaker 1: whether anybody on Earth actually even saw Jupiter and Saturn

307
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,959
Speaker 1: during that very close conjunction back then. One last thing,

308
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,360
Speaker 1: what are the things that excite you about the next

309
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,080
Speaker 1: ten or twenty years that you hope to be engaged in.

310
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,359
Speaker 1: There's so much exploration of the Solar system which is

311
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,280
Speaker 1: going on both NASA and from other countries. I think

312
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:31,879
Speaker 1: that exploration of Titan expiration of Europa. NASA has the

313
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,200
Speaker 1: Europa clippermission which is heading up to Europa, which is

314
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,960
Speaker 1: a really exciting moon of Jupiter. It's one of the

315
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,800
Speaker 1: Galilean moons. Moping back to Gallet himself, who discovered these

316
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,240
Speaker 1: four moons back in sixteen ten. This is one of

317
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,399
Speaker 1: these small dots that he saw through his telescope at

318
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,480
Speaker 1: the time. But it's actually very easy for anybody to

319
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,440
Speaker 1: see with a modest curb binoculars or camera these days,

320
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,359
Speaker 1: and what we see is not that it's just a

321
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,680
Speaker 1: point of light, but it's this ocean world. And so

322
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 1: there's liquid water underneath this icy covering on the surface

323
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,840
Speaker 1: of your ropa, and we're really interested in the chemistry,

324
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 1: in the physics of what's going on and what could

325
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,359
Speaker 1: be this rich ocean underneath the surface of Europa. Titan

326
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,399
Speaker 1: is the mood of Saturn that has the Dragonfly mission

327
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,800
Speaker 1: going to it, and there's liquids there, there's sand dunes,

328
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,800
Speaker 1: there's lakes. There's so much chemistry, so much physics going

329
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,440
Speaker 1: on on the surface of thick atmosphere, and just such

330
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,840
Speaker 1: a dense and rich region for exploration. I think those

331
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:24,480
Speaker 1: are two of the most exciting missions that we have

332
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 1: to explore the Solar system. These are missions which will

333
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,200
Speaker 1: really revolutionize our understanding of the auto Solar system, in

334
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,120
Speaker 1: our connections through the Solar System for decades to come.

335
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,639
Speaker 1: That's great. So I'm gonna thank you. I hope you

336
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 1: have a wonderful holiday given everything that's going on with

337
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 1: the pandemic that for a lot of people knowing about this,

338
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 1: send im a chance to go out and watch it.

339
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,199
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. May just bring a little bit of relief

340
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 1: and a little bit of diversity into what's been a

341
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,040
Speaker 1: very tough here. I hope people are able to go

342
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,119
Speaker 1: out and see it. This is something which everybody on

343
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 1: Earth can see, regardless of where you are, whether you're

344
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 1: in a area, whether you're in a city. Planets are bright,

345
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,560
Speaker 1: they're easy to see. If you can see the sunset,

346
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,199
Speaker 1: you can see Jupiter and Saddle and I think it's

347
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:08,920
Speaker 1: going to be great to go out and look. Don't

348
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,720
Speaker 1: go out just one night, look a couple of nights.

349
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,359
Speaker 1: See the motion of the planets, see our place in

350
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 1: the Solar system. It's going to be great. Thank you

351
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 1: very very much, doctor. Thank you. It's such a place

352
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:24,600
Speaker 1: to be here. I really appreciate it. Thank you to

353
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 1: my guest, doctor Henry Trout. You can read more about

354
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,440
Speaker 1: the Chrystmas start on our show page at Newtsworld dot com.

355
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: News World is produced play Game Which three sixty and iHeartMedia.

356
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,439
Speaker 1: Our executive producers Debbie Myers, our producer is Garns at Sloan,

357
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,560
Speaker 1: and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the

358
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 1: show Who was created by Steve Enley. Special thanks to

359
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 1: the team at Gingwich three sixty. If you've been enjoying

360
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 1: news World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and

361
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 1: both rate us with five stars and give us a

362
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 1: review so others can learn what a it's all about.

363
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,160
Speaker 1: I'm new to English. This is news work.