1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. I am Ben. That's our 4 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: one and only super producer. Mr Max Williams joined as 5 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: always with the Man the midfl Legend, Mr Noel Brown. 6 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: I don't know why I did. For some reason, your 7 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: energy today is very like like like I'm prepping for 8 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: a fight, and then if you guys k guess can't 9 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 1: see me because we're podcasting what I'm wearing. I got 10 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: a hood on, I got my dukes up when I 11 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: joined the call already in progress with you and Max. 12 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: You were talking about training some sort of dog or 13 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: something for a dog fight. But then I realized you 14 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: were just talking about Google Drive. M It was very 15 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: misleading conversation to come into kind of halfway, but I 16 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: gotta get robust. He say something about robust and more 17 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: drive and I was like, yeah, he's talking about like 18 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: training a fighting dog or some Yeah. It was also 19 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: giving me some up, some personal counseling. That's what we 20 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: do sometimes off air. I appreciate it, but just to 21 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: be clear, to get in front of the emails, we 22 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: are ridiculous history. Do not condone dog fighting, Oh absolutely so. 23 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: So we we are talking about something shocking though today 24 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: this is this is a crazy story man. Okay. So 25 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: we are recording on the same continents, uh, North America. 26 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: That's where the three of us routinely hang out, and 27 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: we have listeners on continents across the world except for Antarctica. 28 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: If you're listening to this podcast in Antarctica, who who buddy, 29 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: We can't wait to hear from you. But today we're 30 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: talking about continents, right, We're talking about ambition, I would 31 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: say audacity, and just to be honest, a little bit 32 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: of racism. M hmm, yeah, just us battering a sort 33 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: of assault bay sprinkling of racism because we're talking about 34 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: the idea of creating a super continent. Uh. In the 35 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, a German architect engineer Polly Math pretty genius 36 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: fellow named Herman Sergal. He came up with quite the 37 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: plan that he thought would unite post World War One Europe, 38 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: which was in desperate need of uniting. In order to 39 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: do this, he wanted to accomplish a feat of engineering 40 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: mad scientistry um by draining the Mediterranean Sea not fully 41 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: but like a good a good amount. Let's not go crazy, 42 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: he said, exactly. Yeah, no, that would be insane draining 43 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: it fully. But he want to lower it as much, 44 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: lower the water level by as much as six hundred 45 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: and fifty feet in order to create a brand new 46 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: super continent called m hm atlant Tropa. He can tell 47 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: a reverb or something on that. I hope, I hope 48 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: that was just like understood Max. We got the thumbs 49 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: and then we got the surf sign from Max, or 50 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: the devil horns we got. Oh, Max, you were killing 51 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: it with the gestures today. Okay, all right, well Southern 52 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: Italian speaking with your hands there, I appreciate it. So yes, 53 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: Herman talks about this idea. You can tell it's been 54 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: on his mind for a while. He first goes public 55 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: with it in print in a book in nineteen twenty 56 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: nine called The Project. And this plan is also pitched 57 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: as having numerous advantages. He says it won't just culturally 58 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: kind of unify the disparate cultures of World War one Europe. 59 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: It will also generate a lot of hydro electricity. It 60 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: will create some primo new coastline that is arable, so 61 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: you can grow stuff on it, and you can create 62 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: new communities. There's more opportunity for farming, for colonization. This 63 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: like this idea depended on a couple of things, including 64 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: some very ambitious dams, like the twenty one mile long 65 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: damn at the Strait of Gibraltar that would be able 66 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: to power at least eight point two million homes from 67 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: hydro electricity. And this would also link Europe in Africa, 68 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: but maybe not in a way that was super advantageous 69 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: to the African continent, as we're gonna find. He didn't 70 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: worry too much about that. Uh. In his work. He 71 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: was focused more in Europe and the Mediterranean. But I've 72 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: got to ask at this point, like if someone just 73 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: said that, if you just encountered someone randomly and you 74 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: were trying to solve a problem together and this person 75 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: said maybe we should just make a new continent, how 76 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: would you react? I would assume they were joking, you 77 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like if I heard the current 78 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: president of the US say, all right, and these are 79 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: divisive times, a lot of people are falling into tribalism, 80 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: and that's why we're gonna make a a new North America. 81 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: It's we're just gonna We're gonna damn up everything from 82 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: here to Greenland. How would you react? It's sort of 83 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. That's not 84 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: even the right um metaphor. It's like going around you're 85 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: asked to get to your elbow. It just seems like 86 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: a really big swing solution, um that that could potentially 87 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: create more problems. Yeah, you know, it reminds me of 88 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: and we're all big, big fans of music here on 89 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 1: the show, folks, It reminds me of some really technically impressive, 90 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: but long guitar solos I've heard that get to the 91 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: point where they're just their own things, separate from the 92 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: song they're supposed to be part of. There's a moment 93 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: with some of those guitar solos where it sounds like 94 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: the musician just said, I wonder if I can do 95 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: this not is it good for the song? Right? Yeah, 96 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna see. We're gonna see with Sorg with whether 97 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: he um was this like his long guitar solo. Was 98 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: this like a thing where he thought, well, I bet 99 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: we could do it, so why not? You know what 100 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: I mean? Yeah, I mean the guy was like, um, 101 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: you know, he came from the bout House School of Architecture. 102 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: He was born in eighteen eighty five. He was a 103 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: very well known dude. And to him, I mean, this 104 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: almost was like an opportunity to really flex and show 105 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: his stuff and get like state sponsorship, right. Um, I 106 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: have a feeling that, you know, on the one hand, 107 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: he was probably looking at it from a benevolent standpoint, 108 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: from like a nationalistic standpoint. But on the other hand, 109 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: he was just looking at as an opportunity to do 110 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: a big art project, you know what I mean. And 111 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: he had a assertitude about the future or he was 112 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: pretty convinced that given his learning on culture and space 113 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: and geopolitics, uh, there was going to be an inevitable 114 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: course of action internationally. He believed that three global superpowers 115 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: would arise, kind of like the world of nine eight 116 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: four honestly, where there would be one superpower that's the 117 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: North and South American continents, another that would be what 118 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: he called a pan Asian block, and then there would 119 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: be Europe, the third superpower. And he thought this would 120 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: be a problem because Europe would be the weakest of 121 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: these three powers. He ended up being all yeah, yeah, exactly, 122 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: And so he lived through World War One, he saw 123 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: the chaos of the nineteen twenties, he witnessed the rise 124 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: of the Nazi movement, and he said, you know what, 125 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: the only way we can avoid a second World War 126 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: is if we find a radical solution fast two problems 127 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: like chronic unemployment and over population and an impending energy crisis. 128 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: And he also said he was a technocrat at heart. 129 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: He said, you know, forget politics, that's for the birds 130 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: and the badgers and the buzzards. Technology is going to 131 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: save us. So why did you pick the Mediterranean? Though, Yeah, 132 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: it's a good question. Um. I mean, I think it's because, well, 133 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: first of all, like you said, he kind of based 134 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: a lot of his thinking around this on the notion 135 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: that energy was going to be the most important commodity around, 136 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, in the future. I mean, obviously this is 137 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: something that we now understand incredibly palpably along with things 138 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: like water, but this was not really a time where 139 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: that was quite as much part of the conversation. I mean, 140 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: this is even before uh, Saudi oil was a thing, 141 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: I think um as as an article in the Conversation, 142 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: dot Com reports in their article Atlantropa the Colossal nineteen 143 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: twenties planned to damn the Mediterranean. Um. This was like 144 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: decades before m Saudi oil kind of came into the picture. 145 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: But uh, this guy was pretty prescient in his thinking. 146 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: The article, by the way, is by RICARDA. Vidal, highly 147 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: recommend giving that one a look. But back to water right, 148 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: not necessarily water as a perceived scarcity issue, but water 149 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: as a means of generating power, which was also very 150 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: forward thinking. He saw that the significant flow of water 151 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: into the Mediterranean through the Strait of Gibraltar, of course 152 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: coming in from the Atlantic um and the Dardan Nells 153 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: which was coming in from the Black Sea, was potentially 154 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: a source for generating massive amounts of hydro electric power. Uh. 155 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: Not to mention that it was consistent the water level 156 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: of the Mediterranean always stayed the same because of evaporation. 157 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 1: So his whole idea to damn the Mediterranean on both 158 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: ends and using this reduced inflow of water. This would 159 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: create to generate up to a hundred and ten thousand 160 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: megawatts of hydro electric energy in total through these various 161 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: damning locations. And in the process of doing this this 162 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: is kind of be like the the end game would 163 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: create a new piece of land a new supercontinent. And 164 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: then he believed this could be used for future colonization, 165 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: but also would connect Europe to Africa, making it a 166 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: super continent, kind of like a feat of human engineering, 167 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: a marvel to behold. Um. Initially the project or the 168 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, the supercontinent was going to be called pan Ropa. Um. 169 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: It was later changed to at Land Tropa. I imagine 170 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 1: because of the I'm assuming maybe in some small ways 171 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: devoted to the idea of this very advanced society of atlantis, 172 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: you know, like under the sea or the Atlantic Ocean. 173 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: And let me make a quick clarification here. So he 174 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: he had two books. Uh. And originally I had said 175 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: that the Atlantropa Project is his nine book, but that 176 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: came out three years later in nineteen nine. The book 177 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: he wrote was the pan Ropa Project, with that original 178 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: name you mentioned. The full title is the pan Ropa Project, 179 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: Lowering the Mediterranean, Irrigating the Sahara and uh. And so 180 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: we went with the Lantropa because of branding. It was 181 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: very much a branding decision. He was trying to sell 182 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: this to people, you know. Um. He also started he 183 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: added stuff to this over the course of his lifetime. 184 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: You can see revised versions of the proposal that include 185 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: things like a plan to create a bunch of giant 186 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: lakes in Central Africa. And he believed in hydro electricity 187 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: because his father had pioneered it in Bavaria. Also shout 188 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: out to big think damning the Mediterranean the atlant tropa 189 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: project by Frank Jacobs. So if you just look at 190 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: the problems, he's trying to address energy independence from more 191 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: energy at least from the hydro electric dams, more land, 192 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: to address over population and grow food, uh and more 193 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: jobs because you've got people building these massive dams. Then 194 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: it seems like, you know, his heart's in the right place. 195 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: Put diplomatically, it's an out of the box creative solution. Now, 196 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: a lot of astute, ridiculous historians in the crowd today 197 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: are saying, hang on, I've been to the Mediterranean. There's 198 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: still a lot of water there. Yes. Yeah, But before 199 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: we tell you how all this went down, maybe no, 200 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: we've talked a little bit more detail about what the 201 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: plan actually entails, because you you described it so beautifully, 202 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: this kind of book ending with dams one across straight 203 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: at Gibraltar, and he said that Dardanells and then eventually 204 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: he would have a dam between Sicily and Tunisia, and 205 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: all of these would have these hydro electric power plants 206 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: and that would be the basis of this new continent, right, 207 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 1: and it's a super continent because it's just adding more 208 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: to Europe. Correct, Yeah, exactly. And he had like tons 209 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: of drawings and schematics and you know, planning for all 210 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: of this that is preserved in a museum in Munich. Um. 211 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: We'll get to the name in a little bit. Escapes 212 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: me at the moment, but his plan was super elaborate. 213 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: I mean, the idea was to create a thirty five 214 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: kilometer long dam in these straits of Gibraltar, uh and 215 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: cut off the water supply from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean. UM. 216 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: Cabinet magazine dot org has a great kind of blow 217 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: by blow um of how this whole thing was done, 218 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: and it it immediately compares it to something from Gene 219 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: Roddenberry's nineteen seventy nine book version of Star Trek of 220 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: the motion picture. UM. So you know, you're you're already 221 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: getting these kind of utopian kind of like you know, 222 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: future civilization kind of vibes. This dude definitely had that 223 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 1: sort of imagination. So, uh, he would cut off the 224 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 1: water supply from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean and uh, 225 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: conceptually or theoretically, the sea would dry up. Uh not 226 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: completely like we said, but the water level would be 227 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: reduced by around two hundred meters and this in theory 228 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: would open up around six hundred thousand square kilometers of 229 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: new land and enable them to harness uh, this body 230 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: of water and its movement for hydroelectric power. And you know, 231 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: it's funny been again, this wasn't necessarily Yes, they needed energy, 232 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: of course, and they were in a post war situation, 233 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: But I don't think the energy crisis was what we 234 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: would maybe think of it as today, right, like the 235 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: in terms of like how I occupied the zeitgeis this 236 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: is more him just kind of like trying to dig 237 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: themselves out of the things that come along with the 238 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: post war kind of rebuilding. But it certainly wouldn't have 239 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: been something on the minds of like the world like, 240 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: oh no, we're not gonna have enough energy. I think 241 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: it's fair to say that while people were aware of it, 242 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people who were just living at the 243 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: ground level of society, like your normal everyday sadis and 244 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: spins or whatever. They were worried about having power in 245 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: their community, and they maybe weren't thinking about the global 246 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: bigger picture, but he certainly was. And there's something interesting 247 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: about the timing here too, because infrastructure had just been wrecked. 248 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: You know, maybe this is the right time his reasoning 249 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: went to build something new instead of just rebuilding the 250 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: old stuff. Now we have to take a turn for 251 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: a bit of a darker explanation as we look at 252 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: at what his plan is doing in North Africa and 253 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: southern Spain. You can, by the way, if you're listening 254 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: along at home, pull up some of those articles we've mentioned, 255 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: or just type at land trop a project map and 256 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: you can see some great maps that will help outline 257 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: where he sees these damns going. Here's the problem, here's 258 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: the dark side. So Sorgel was a man of his time, 259 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: even though he felt like he was a man ahead 260 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: of his time, and that might be true. In some ways. 261 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: He was very much a European colonialist, and he didn't 262 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: particularly think of what the people living in Africa would 263 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: think of this plan. As a matter of fact, one 264 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: of the things he spun as a benefit to people 265 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: when he's trying to get him on board. Is he said, look, 266 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: we can also have two dams across the Congo River, 267 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: creating a Chad and Congo see. And this will have 268 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: a good influence on the African climate. It will be 269 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: more pleasant for European settlers. He didn't exactly hold meetings 270 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: with people who lived in those areas at all. He 271 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: just sort of thought this will help us continue our 272 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: resource extraction. Heist and uh and he did, oh he 273 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: did notice something cool and Max thought of you with 274 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: this part. Uh. He wanted to build a continuous train 275 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,239 Speaker 1: connection between Africa and Europe, which would be cool. All right, 276 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: we got the Max. Not thank you. Uh I, I 277 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: love it. We all love traveling by train. His advantage. 278 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: And this is nasty. These are not This is not 279 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: us speaking, folks. This is a verbatim quote from him. 280 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: He especially just talking about turning the Congo Basin into 281 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: an enormous dammed up see. He said, we go to 282 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: the smattering of racism here. Is that the Uh yeah, 283 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: we've been there for a few minutes. Yeah. He said 284 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: Africa would be turned into quote a territory actually useful 285 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: for Europe boo. Indeed, do I make a foggina. I 286 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: think it means you asked me a question and I 287 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 1: did not answer. But when they say it the way 288 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: they aid and that song, it just sounds so intense, 289 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: but the lyrics are actually pretty vanilla. Uh. Now, it's true. 290 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: He there was a sentiment I think, you know, of 291 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: Africa as being a useless continent and its inhabitants being 292 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: sort of like, you know, unlearned and dare we say 293 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: again speaking to the sentiment of the time subhuman in 294 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: some way. It was pretty widely held. So the idea 295 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: was that he would uh use some kind of you know, 296 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: form twisted form of Darwinism, social Darwinism UM and colonialism 297 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: to connect Europe to that territory in the hopes that 298 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: maybe they would be able to um convert the inhabitants 299 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: of that land to their way of thinking and thus 300 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: rendering them useful in some way. Who doesn't love a 301 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: white savior, right, bros. That's that's where he's going with this. 302 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: He did say something that a lot of other um, 303 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: a lot of other luminaries in geopolitics have said before, 304 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: which is he said the fight for survival is a 305 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: fight for territory. And that's something that we see play 306 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: out in the world today. As a matter of fact, 307 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: we also see the damages that large scale dams could 308 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: have on the world today, like the three gorgeous dam 309 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: in China displaced a ton of people who were not 310 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: really allowed to object, you know. And I recently heard 311 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: a kind of depressing report on BBC World Service or 312 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: World News podcast where they talked about how hydroelectric dams 313 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: maybe spelling the end for jaguars and wild tigers. So 314 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: hydro electric dams, yeah, they're better than a coal mine, 315 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: but they still they still have their drawbacks. He's not 316 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: worried about any of this. He's not asking the populations 317 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: of in the parts of Africa that will be affected 318 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: by this because he doesn't care. Uh. Instead, he thinks 319 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: this will be a new kind of counterweight to the 320 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: future power of United North and South American continent and 321 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,439 Speaker 1: United Asian continent. And so this is his way of 322 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: kind of putting some gas into Europe's future standing. So 323 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: let's pause for sick though, because there are a lot 324 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: of ifs they're right, Like he's he's already he's basing 325 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: his idea on his theory about these three great superpowers, 326 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: which has not been proven and didn't come to pass. Right, So, 327 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: so I mean I started off to describing Sorgal as 328 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: being this like concept over function kind of guy. I mean, 329 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: I think I may be mischaracterizing a little bit. He 330 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: was incredibly ideological and and and this move you know, 331 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,239 Speaker 1: was as much a show of his like engineering and 332 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: kind of artistic genius and and um, you know, as 333 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: it was is a way too in his mind, moved 334 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: some pretty serious geopolitical pieces, right and and set uh 335 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: Europe up for success post World War One. He wrote 336 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: down all of his thoughts, um and and these drawings 337 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: uh in what became around a thousand individualized publications that 338 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: comprised four Atlantropa books. Um. And there's actually an entire 339 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: special collection in the archive of the Deutsche Museum in Munich. 340 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: That's what I was alluding to earlier, So you can 341 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 1: actually check this out for yourself. And he was a 342 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 1: big fan of the work of another, uh kind of 343 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: dour European gentleman by the name of Spangler, right, but 344 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: not Egan, which which Spangler we're talking about, That Oswald Spangler, 345 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: the guy who's famously fun at parties for things like 346 00:21:53,920 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: his two volume work, The Decline of zevest Uh The Vest. 347 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: He didn't like vest, and he also didn't like the West. 348 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: The first volume is about the first volume is about 349 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: vest that you would wear in suits, and the second 350 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: volume takes that analogy to geopolitics. It makes a kind 351 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: of sense if you read it. It's also all entirely 352 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: an iambic pentameter rhyming verse. Folks, you're gonna have to 353 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: read the book to see which part of this is true. 354 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: Not not all of it is. But the point of 355 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,959 Speaker 1: Spengler is that he believed that all cultures were super 356 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: organisms and they had a cyclical, predictable lifespan. We talked 357 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: about stuff like this a little bit on stuff they 358 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Do empires have an expiration date? 359 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: And he had predicted way back in like nineteen twenty two, 360 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: nineteen eighteen or so, that Western civilization would enter its 361 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: death throws in the year two thousand and then by 362 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: twenty two hundred, Western civilization as he knew it would collapse. 363 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: So that's where that's kind of a bleak outlook, right, 364 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: And that really informs a lot of where Sorcal is 365 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: coming from. We've got to save the European culture basically 366 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: that point, that's what he's thinking of. Well, and we've 367 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: been talking about this all along, but I mean against 368 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: about digging Europe out of this post war malaise, which 369 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: included things like massive unemployment levels, poverty, and the treatment 370 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: of Europe as sort of a pariah by other world superpowers, right, 371 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: I mean understandably so, yeah, yeah, because you know, Europe 372 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: was looking rough after World War One, and that's a 373 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: very polite way to put it, Like the chaos was widespread, 374 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: massive casualties, all the problems you just mentioned. Uh, the 375 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: shadow of poverty looming ever larger on the horizon. And 376 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: one interesting note about Sorcle, despite his racist attitudes, the 377 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: dude was a pacifist and he thought that building would 378 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: guide the European continent toward a brighter, a brighter kind 379 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: of post scarcity future. That Star Trek analogy is not 380 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: too far off, because in the original Star Trek, poverty 381 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,959 Speaker 1: has been to a great degree eliminated in the Federation 382 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: space at least, and people aren't going hungry. He wanted 383 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: to build this kind of thing, which is a noble thought. 384 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: But the big deal with him was not just helping 385 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: people get jobs, helping people get food, giving people energy. 386 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: He wanted to make the countries of Europe increasingly interdependent 387 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: upon one another, so you wouldn't be like, if you're 388 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,479 Speaker 1: Austria Hungary, you would be so much less likely to 389 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: start a war with France because you are trading partners. 390 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 1: Now you're indeed with each other. So what hurts them 391 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: hurts you. And there is a logic to that, but 392 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 1: maybe not as sound a logic as he assumed. It's 393 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 1: similar to maybe where we are with China, say right now, 394 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: only maybe it almost seems like the pendulum has swung 395 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: a little more in China's favor than even ours. Right, yeah, 396 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: right now. It's uh right, right now, they're heated debates 397 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: going on in the world of the military and in 398 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: the world of academia about which which country will become 399 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: the quote unquote global superpower. But there are a lot 400 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: of that's maybe uh an episode for the future, But 401 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: there are a lot of factors I would argue people 402 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: aren't considering. You know, the one child policy left an 403 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: intergenerational consequence, and population rates are actually going down in 404 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: a lot of overall in the world. For the first 405 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: time in a while. So that's not the worst thing 406 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: in the world, all right, specially given that what we're 407 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: talking about today, which is the idea of scarcity and 408 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: not having enough resources to feed everybody and you know, 409 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: poverty and starvation. Again, I'm I'm don't don't want to 410 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: cast myself as some kind of eugenicist or something, but 411 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: you know, there is something to be said about maybe 412 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: times of strife and uncertainty maybe not the best times 413 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: to have, you know, a Brady Bunch kind of situation. Yeah, no, 414 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: I you know me, man, you know me. Well, I 415 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: agree with that. This also, this is attractive to him 416 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: to Sorgal because he doesn't need to go through the 417 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: realm of politics and diplomacy. And these governments that he's 418 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,959 Speaker 1: trying to unite are very different culturally, procedurally in many ways, 419 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: they don't get along. But if he can solve it 420 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: with technology, then, first off, think of all the meetings 421 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: you get out of You don't have to like kiss 422 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 1: the dukes behind anymore. You just have to do it 423 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: once to get the green light. And now you know, 424 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: there's this there's this attitude that I find inspiring despite 425 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: all the problems with Sorgals believe as a person, I 426 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: love the idea that science can save us. I don't 427 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: know if that's always accurate, but but it's beautiful. And 428 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: this this concept sort of turning the entirety of Europe 429 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: and this new supercontinent into one gigantic unified electric grid. 430 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: I think that would do a lot to mitigate the 431 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 1: problems of war. And you know, not for nothing. He 432 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: wasn't wrong. War was going to happen. It's it's crazy 433 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: that they were. They were calling it the World War 434 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: at this point, but he was already thinking in terms 435 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: of World War One and the sequel. Wait, won't wait, 436 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: hold up, We've got to drain the Mediterranean of this podcast. 437 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: This has to be a two parter. There's too much. 438 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: There's too much. We thought we could, We thought we 439 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: could shove it all into one, but it was just 440 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: far too grandiose and ambitious of an idea, much like 441 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: the subject of today's part one of a two part episode. Yes, 442 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: so tune in on Thursday to learn what became of 443 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: the atlant Tropa project. Thanks as always to the one 444 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 1: and only Mr Max Williams, as well as his sibling 445 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: Alex Williams. Who kindly composed this banging soundtrack. It's a 446 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: very kind sounding track to it really speaks to Alex's 447 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: inner goodness. Huge thanks to Jonathan Strickland, the quister. We're 448 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: gonna be seeing him dark in our doorstep one of 449 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: these days pretty soon. I'm nearly certain, Gay Bluegier Research 450 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: Associate extraordinaire. Who else? Who else am I missing? Oh yeah, 451 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: Christopher Rociotis and Eves Jeff Cotes here in spirit? M yes, 452 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: And thanks to all the tireless geologists working around the world. 453 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: Thanks to everybody who decided not to drain the Mediterranean 454 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: see and thanks to you ridiculous historians in advance for 455 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: joining us on the social meds. You can find our 456 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: Facebook community page Ridiculous Historians, but you can also find 457 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: us not just as a show but individuals. I am 458 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: at Ben Bowling on Instagram and that Been Bowling hsw 459 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: on Twitter. If you want to get a behind the 460 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: scenes look at my various strange, ill informed misadventures the 461 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: devil you say, Ben, You can find me having misadventures 462 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: of a kind as well, exclusively on Instagram, where I 463 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: am at how now Noel Brown, We'll see you next time. Folks. 464 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My heart Radio, visit the I 465 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 466 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.