Speaker 1: Get up, gett boys. It's back and reloaded all in
Speaker 1: your mind. Yeah and now deep throating. This is for
Speaker 1: the streets, the reel, the railroading, the disanfranchise, the truth,
Speaker 1: the scapegoating, and they ain't knowing we speak the truth,
Speaker 1: so they ain't quoted because we wrote it. The North
Speaker 1: South East coach is g b my for keeping your
Speaker 1: head bobbing. It ain't no stopping and wants to be
Speaker 1: try by then the system is so corrupt they throw
Speaker 1: the rock out of their heads and then blame it
Speaker 1: on us. Don't get it twisted on code and me
Speaker 1: dancing for no buttament biscuits. It's Willie d y'all scarf
Speaker 1: baces in the building. Collectively we are the ghetto boys. Reloaded,
Speaker 1: Reloaded with another episode of information and instructions to help
Speaker 1: you navigate through this wild, crazy, beautiful world. In the studio. Mckinnley,
Speaker 1: Phipps a k A. Mac, what's happening? What's happened to man?
Speaker 1: Welcome back, Welcome to the same old place that you
Speaker 1: laughed about. You know what I'm talking about? And the
Speaker 1: dream come around. I don't know the rest of the words,
Speaker 1: but we hung around. Who they need you. Yeah, right here,
Speaker 1: we need you because we got him on the spot.
Speaker 1: Well come back, wasn't at your boy played? Yeah? Freddy
Speaker 1: boom boom Washington? Yeah, Mac man, Man, it's good to
Speaker 1: see you. Man, you boy. You're a hell of a fighter. Man,
Speaker 1: You're you're a true You're a true definition of survivors.
Speaker 1: Let's let's let's take it all the way back. Let's
Speaker 1: go back to third Ward, New Orleans. All right, how
Speaker 1: was that light growing up in Third Ward? I mean, um, actually,
Speaker 1: my neighborhoo, it was was, it was. It was nice, man,
Speaker 1: until eighty six came and we all know what happening.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, before then, you know, me and
Speaker 1: my childhood partners, like my manager also that we all
Speaker 1: played and we had fun. I really know, we was
Speaker 1: pulling until I started seeing rich people, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. So until then I just thought that this
Speaker 1: is where the way things were. But once eight to six,
Speaker 1: you know, hit man, it was. It was a hell
Speaker 1: of a blow to the community. And how did it
Speaker 1: affect you and your family personally? Well, you know, of course,
Speaker 1: I think with every family you have, you know, drugs
Speaker 1: affected them in different ways. With my family, luckily, you know,
Speaker 1: unfortunately not on world. We didn't have any junk. It's
Speaker 1: you know, anybody in my immediate family because my parents,
Speaker 1: my parents we do right and and and I had
Speaker 1: cousins and you know, uncles and people like that. You
Speaker 1: know that was affected, like you know, either using l en,
Speaker 1: but as far as in the immediate household, you know,
Speaker 1: we didn't have any. And the drunk is anything. A
Speaker 1: couple of my uncles got on it in in in,
Speaker 1: you know, thirty five years later, I feel hella bad
Speaker 1: about that, right, No, I can imagine because it had
Speaker 1: it had. I watched it, man, I literally watched the
Speaker 1: change like overnight, like literally like people I respected all
Speaker 1: of a sudden became like the junkie and the person
Speaker 1: who was it was almost like a man, the kids,
Speaker 1: grown ups and the grown up kids because now missing
Speaker 1: so and so who was walking through the neighborhood you respect.
Speaker 1: Now he's coming to get that stuff from this little kid,
Speaker 1: and we'll give him. Give the little kid. He's old,
Speaker 1: lady and changed. It was said by the man who
Speaker 1: couldn't quit dope. Man, please gonna have another hit. And
Speaker 1: that's crazy because I think the weirdest thing I saw
Speaker 1: I remember seeing this. A friend of mine went to
Speaker 1: go make a sale and when he came back, he
Speaker 1: told me, and you ain't gonna believe this. I said
Speaker 1: it was up. He told me it was one of
Speaker 1: our teachers was the person who he was going on
Speaker 1: sell it too. And I would never forget that. That
Speaker 1: that kind of you know, just made me put things
Speaker 1: in perspective a little differently. So how do you get
Speaker 1: your mind wrapped around a better life? And how do
Speaker 1: you go about doing that? I mean, I think it
Speaker 1: as far as individit, well, I found hip hop man
Speaker 1: at about seven years old, and it was my way out.
Speaker 1: Like I in my mind, I think I made it
Speaker 1: up at I wrote my first round at seven, but
Speaker 1: I think about eight years old, I made up my
Speaker 1: mind and this is what I wanted to do for
Speaker 1: the rest of my life and I didn't. I kind
Speaker 1: of that is I think was my anti drug. It
Speaker 1: was that thing that kept me away from I was
Speaker 1: so focused on it. And truthfully, back then, you know,
Speaker 1: the rappers and the videos had a little flashy videos,
Speaker 1: and I thought they really owned that stuff. And I
Speaker 1: think that's a good thing because it gave me something
Speaker 1: that aspired towards and right. Well, it was like a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff that I thought, well, if I do this,
Speaker 1: I had a picture of success, example of success, and
Speaker 1: I didn't see that with drug dealers in my neighborhood.
Speaker 1: I mean the drug dealing in my neighborhood living next though,
Speaker 1: So in my mind it was like people saying he
Speaker 1: got money, but he lived in his house next door,
Speaker 1: and I know we're only paying four rent. So I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't mean how old when you're thinking like this
Speaker 1: about eight or nine? And it was like, well I didn't.
Speaker 1: I can't in hindsight, I'm giving you what I feel.
Speaker 1: But as a kid, was like, he don't look like
Speaker 1: he got no money, you know what I mean? So
Speaker 1: people like he said, I drug broke down. So did
Speaker 1: your parents help guide you to crystallizing that choice and
Speaker 1: you know, becoming a rapper? Because I know you know
Speaker 1: you did your little Mac thing at thirteen, you put
Speaker 1: out your first album at thirteen years I mean that's
Speaker 1: that's phenomenal, man, Like, who help you get to that point?
Speaker 1: All right? Well, my uncle being rest in peace. I
Speaker 1: just buried him about a month ago. He was like,
Speaker 1: I didn't have a big brother, I was the oldest,
Speaker 1: so he was my mom's younger brother, and he was
Speaker 1: like a big brother to me and all of the
Speaker 1: guys in the neighborhood. And he was a diehole hip
Speaker 1: hop fan. So I used to just watch him when
Speaker 1: he would listen to this or listen to that. And
Speaker 1: he was the first person I rapped for. He knew
Speaker 1: two guys that were inter wrapped at the time. It
Speaker 1: was a brother named Gregory D and the brother named
Speaker 1: sported And I was resting Peter sported T, so he
Speaker 1: brought me to Gregory D. And Gregor D was like
Speaker 1: he heard me, and he said, man, if I ever
Speaker 1: get on, I got you. And I was like eleven
Speaker 1: and so I think the next year he came got
Speaker 1: me and he had left the group he was with
Speaker 1: and formed with a guy named Man and fresh from
Speaker 1: the seven Man and Many produced the first job. His
Speaker 1: names like we don't know this guy? You know? Right?
Speaker 1: It was a guy named Many, Yeah, you know, and
Speaker 1: I Man like eleven or twelve. He started working on
Speaker 1: my album with me, and he kind of helped me
Speaker 1: put my songs together because before Manny, I was just
Speaker 1: rapping run on song. It was like one long song.
Speaker 1: He was like, NA, little mag you gotta break it
Speaker 1: down into verses and hooks and some structure, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so so many help you put the structure in your songs, right,
Speaker 1: and from there you you leave your records right, and
Speaker 1: you signed with which was a Dallas based level, a
Speaker 1: basic label. Your records was based out of Dallas. So
Speaker 1: how did you make that connection? How do you get
Speaker 1: to Dallas? Well, actually I never had been the Dallas
Speaker 1: back then. I just knew that the label that Gregor
Speaker 1: then Manifest was owned was in Dallas. So the guys
Speaker 1: who ran it were actually one of them had a
Speaker 1: condo in New Orleans. And I basically begged my parents
Speaker 1: to let me sign this contract, and they had to
Speaker 1: sign it because I was a minor, but they signed
Speaker 1: it with conditions. My parents were like, Yo, if your
Speaker 1: grades go down, this is over with. If my son's
Speaker 1: grades go down, this is out the way. So I
Speaker 1: had to have straight as straight a's in school, and
Speaker 1: you know I had to go in the studio. That
Speaker 1: was that was my payment for being able for my parents. No,
Speaker 1: I think I may have said damn one time on
Speaker 1: nah in fact, that you're ready for this. They had
Speaker 1: a song on my first album called gainst the Group.
Speaker 1: It sounds like one of the songs on Ghetto on
Speaker 1: on your first on your first album. Back then, I
Speaker 1: got the whole little concept from what you'all was doing,
Speaker 1: and so I wanted to do me against the type song.
Speaker 1: And I'm twelve years old, but I think I might
Speaker 1: have said no, man, it was scratching, damn need rootless
Speaker 1: on the song. Yeah, that was it for man. No,
Speaker 1: because man, it was crashing, goddamned rootless. So it sounds
Speaker 1: like Many help bring you to No Limit? Because no, no, no,
Speaker 1: Many that many signed with cash right, Many moved over there.
Speaker 1: So why didn't you move with to cash money with Many?
Speaker 1: Or did you do your deal with No Limit? First? Well,
Speaker 1: I was, I was working with cash Money around nineties six.
Speaker 1: I was. I think I did a Verse on b
Speaker 1: GS Chop the City album like in nineties seven or whatnot,
Speaker 1: and I was working around them, and I really was
Speaker 1: just trying to fill out who I was going to
Speaker 1: be with. And I eventually chose No Limit because I
Speaker 1: felt I was gonna stand out more at No Limit
Speaker 1: with my style versus with you know, all of the
Speaker 1: artists they had on the label, and I pretty much
Speaker 1: um knew everybody had no limit except P. Did you
Speaker 1: originally signed with the group five one five four boards
Speaker 1: or did you signed as a solo actor? I signed
Speaker 1: as a solo artist. The Fire with Full Boards project
Speaker 1: came out about a week or a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: after my arrest. But I had already did songs for
Speaker 1: the album, right, so I signed with him as a
Speaker 1: solo artist. In like ninety seven, I signed with no
Speaker 1: lem So you get arrested in two thousand one day
Speaker 1: in two thousands, you get arrested in two thousands, You
Speaker 1: get sentenced in two thousand one for manslaughter for a
Speaker 1: crime that you did not commit. Ample evidence that you
Speaker 1: didn't get, ample witnesses who testified may gave statements that
Speaker 1: you did not commit the crime. Yet you're forced to
Speaker 1: have your freedom taken away from you and stripped of
Speaker 1: your dignity. Um, why why? Why was the state of
Speaker 1: Louisiana so adamant about keeping you behind bars? All right?
Speaker 1: So I believe it was a It was multifaceted. I
Speaker 1: think it was a combination of things. I don't think
Speaker 1: it was personal, yet it was sense. It was people.
Speaker 1: That's that's testifying for you, and writing the judge letters
Speaker 1: and and saying and somebody even came clean and said
Speaker 1: that he did it, and they still kept behind bars. No, man,
Speaker 1: that's personally right, right, That's why I said it was
Speaker 1: personally yet not. I mean, it wasn't personally yet it was.
Speaker 1: And I think what happened was this. I think it
Speaker 1: was a situation where it was a perfect storm. I
Speaker 1: got caught in a um. I got caught in a
Speaker 1: bond at the right time, but the wrong the right time,
Speaker 1: with the wrong players involved. And I think that there
Speaker 1: were I think it was I was used as an
Speaker 1: example in that parish because the same time, the parish
Speaker 1: was like a very rural, a very conservative area at
Speaker 1: that time. And in fact, David Duke was the chairman
Speaker 1: I think of their Republican committee at the time at
Speaker 1: the time of my arrest. When what was he the
Speaker 1: governor of Louisiana. Oh, he never won. He ran um
Speaker 1: and um. And I'd like to get my facts right,
Speaker 1: so I do know that he was, was it the
Speaker 1: chairman of the committee or yeah? I think he was
Speaker 1: the chairman of the republic committee at the time whenever
Speaker 1: my arrest, and it was very conservative, very conservative, every
Speaker 1: which is you know, I you know that's neither here
Speaker 1: nor there. But I think at the time when they investigated,
Speaker 1: I believe that they moved too fast without all of
Speaker 1: the facts. So once you move because you felt you
Speaker 1: had this figure that was going to bring media attention
Speaker 1: and all of this stuff involved, you moved on it
Speaker 1: without investigating. And I think one of the issues I
Speaker 1: have a problem with dealing with African Americans, particularly um,
Speaker 1: those of us that have a little notoriety, is I
Speaker 1: think that they be held bent on um they arrest
Speaker 1: before they investigate instead of investigating and then arresting. So
Speaker 1: I think they arrested me before they had all the
Speaker 1: effects in order. And then what you do is put
Speaker 1: yourself into position to try to create facts to line
Speaker 1: up against this person that you have and custoded. I
Speaker 1: don't know if if that's a if that answers your question.
Speaker 1: So so that's the non personal side. What's the personal side?
Speaker 1: The personal side is there could have been an agenda
Speaker 1: at that time against no limit. Yeah, that's what it was.
Speaker 1: The thing is this, like every independent black record, black
Speaker 1: owned record label, we had a we we've always been fighting,
Speaker 1: you know, law enforcement, you know. Uh. And if you
Speaker 1: ask me, it's it's it's just jealousy. It's it's it's
Speaker 1: a hate that we escaped. Right. They hate you because
Speaker 1: you escaped the rules that were set for you, the
Speaker 1: traps that were set for you in in in in
Speaker 1: in the beginning, like you're not supposed to be successful.
Speaker 1: You are not supposed to be driving this car in
Speaker 1: this neighborhood and be black, all right, You're not supposed
Speaker 1: to be that. With that said, go ahead with it, mac,
Speaker 1: walk us through that day, okay. So it's I mean,
Speaker 1: from from the time that you opened your eyes that
Speaker 1: day two the time that you were arrested, tell us
Speaker 1: what so and what did they say? You did? Go ahead? Okay,
Speaker 1: they said, Um, I'm gonna give you what. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: give you what they said happened. And I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: you what that all right? From according to them, a
Speaker 1: fight broke out on the dance flow in this club,
Speaker 1: and I shot a young man, you know. And and
Speaker 1: let me say that the true victim in this is
Speaker 1: that young man's family. I want to I want to
Speaker 1: I want to make sure I reiterate that because you know,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. This was a grieving
Speaker 1: family who lost their love one. Um Now did they did?
Speaker 1: They think you did it? Well, they were left with
Speaker 1: a choice. You know, you had something. You have people
Speaker 1: telling them, people saying that I didn't do it, but
Speaker 1: you had the law enforcement, who people typically trust, saying
Speaker 1: he did. And how how hard did they fight to
Speaker 1: uphold that sentence. Well, they fought. They fought, They fought
Speaker 1: as much as they could. You know, I'm the family
Speaker 1: because I know the law enforcement. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I know the tradicial system. There were certain people in
Speaker 1: the family that that were at admit that, no, we
Speaker 1: don't want him to get out, and you know, and
Speaker 1: and and I don't. I don't. UM, I don't knock
Speaker 1: them for that, because this is a grieving family. You hurt,
Speaker 1: and then when you don't know all of the facts
Speaker 1: and you weren't a witness to it, you know, so
Speaker 1: you're just going off of what the law enforcement the
Speaker 1: picture they have painted. And I understand that because I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, hurt when you're hurt, and you know, that's
Speaker 1: just that's just just the way it where it is.
Speaker 1: And I want to create that again, reiterate that again,
Speaker 1: that they were the true victims in this because they
Speaker 1: lost their loved one. Now as far as me, I
Speaker 1: woke up that morning. We had just came back from
Speaker 1: I think I had a few shows in Mississippi and
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas. I came home, my mom told me
Speaker 1: that she had this event. She wanted me to go
Speaker 1: to out there and slide down. So we go. We
Speaker 1: get there. It wasn't really particularly my type of place.
Speaker 1: It was kind of a small, smaller club, and she
Speaker 1: wanted me to hear a few of the artists that
Speaker 1: were pharming because at the time and my mom had
Speaker 1: started me my mom my business partner. We had started
Speaker 1: our own label, so she had a few guys she
Speaker 1: wanted to hear, and we we sat in there for
Speaker 1: a while, and some time around after midnight, a fight
Speaker 1: broke out between a young man that was in there
Speaker 1: and some of the people who was with me, and
Speaker 1: I was standing talking to a young lady. Two young
Speaker 1: ladies in there, and a guy, and I was like
Speaker 1: signing autographs, taking pictures, and I noticed some of them.
Speaker 1: I noticed one of my partners like standing in the
Speaker 1: middle of a shoving match, and when I took a
Speaker 1: step towards it to see what was going on. I
Speaker 1: heard a gunshot. Now, mind you, it's dark in here,
Speaker 1: lights a flashing, the music is loud, a lot of bass,
Speaker 1: so I hear a gunshot, and initially I don't if
Speaker 1: I even thought it was a gunshot because the music
Speaker 1: was so loud. So I remember once I realized I
Speaker 1: saw people running, I grabbed the young lady who was
Speaker 1: next to me, and I pulled her down to the
Speaker 1: ground and I told her, don't run until you see
Speaker 1: what these shots are coming from. Something like that. So
Speaker 1: while we were on the ground, I told us stay here.
Speaker 1: When I got up, I grabbed him, I grabbed us,
Speaker 1: and then once I grabbed us, another friend of ours
Speaker 1: named Daryl grabbed me and it kind of shielded me,
Speaker 1: and we ran towards the front door looking for my
Speaker 1: mom because my mom was at the front door collecting
Speaker 1: the money. So the mistake I made was as I
Speaker 1: was running towards the front door, I pulled my gun
Speaker 1: out there. I didn't know as we as we running
Speaker 1: towards the front door, I pulled my gun out because
Speaker 1: I didn't know if I was in fact the target
Speaker 1: of the shooting. I don't know who shooting I don't
Speaker 1: know where it's coming from, and my just out of defense,
Speaker 1: I pulled mine out and kind of ran through the
Speaker 1: crowd with it in the air because I didn't want
Speaker 1: to bump into somebody and have the gun goals. So
Speaker 1: I'm running through there like the police with a gun
Speaker 1: in my hand, looking for my mom, like, yo, where
Speaker 1: my mama? Where my mama? And I think at that
Speaker 1: point is where witnesses saw me with a gun after
Speaker 1: not at the time, I didn't know if someone was
Speaker 1: shot yet, mind you, I didn't know if someone was shot.
Speaker 1: I didn't see if anyone was shot, and I left.
Speaker 1: We left out the club, I went home. So as
Speaker 1: I get home, the guy who was babysitting my house,
Speaker 1: sitting my younger brothers, he was like, Slim, the people
Speaker 1: just called here and said they need to question you
Speaker 1: about the shooting. At that moment is when I found
Speaker 1: out somebody actually got shot. Once I made it home,
Speaker 1: because when I left out of there, I didn't see
Speaker 1: anybody on the ground. All I saw with people running
Speaker 1: and moving. So he told me that man, they want
Speaker 1: to question you about the shooting. I'm like okay, So
Speaker 1: I go in the house and um it wasn't. But
Speaker 1: a couple of minute later police had surrounded my my
Speaker 1: whole house. Man, they're coming from the backyard from the front.
Speaker 1: They didn't block the streets off. And um, that gun
Speaker 1: that you had had not been fired, never been fired,
Speaker 1: So what the fund are they fucking with you? Okay,
Speaker 1: that's a good point. That's a good point. Their excuse
Speaker 1: in court was because I gave him this gun. They
Speaker 1: tested it, They tested my hands. The gun pod of
Speaker 1: tests came up missing, like we couldn't Yeah, they couldn't
Speaker 1: remember what a gun polyotest. We don't. They don't know
Speaker 1: what that's at. So we never got a chance to
Speaker 1: get that. And here's a situation where the actual accused
Speaker 1: is axing for the gun polo test. Normally, you know
Speaker 1: the accuses. I want to get the gun pologist. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to find it because I'm feeling like it's gonna right.
Speaker 1: So we couldn't find a gun polotist. They tested all
Speaker 1: my guns. They established in court that they were not fired.
Speaker 1: Their staffed. It's that part. But so how you this
Speaker 1: is the theory they gave to the jewelry. They said
Speaker 1: that they found another gun case at my house to
Speaker 1: an alleged missing gun. They created this idea of a
Speaker 1: missing gun for the jewelry, and they said I had
Speaker 1: enough time in between Slyde, Louisiana and Baton Rouge, which
Speaker 1: is about forty five minutes. They said I had enough
Speaker 1: time to get rid of a weapon. So they never
Speaker 1: found a weapon. They just said that I had enough
Speaker 1: time to get rid of a weapon. You got theory.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question. So you get rid
Speaker 1: of a weapon that she was holding up right, and
Speaker 1: clearly they saw that weapon and I gave it to him,
Speaker 1: and you gave it to him, right. And oh they
Speaker 1: had cameras in the club that came up missing too.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, you know they had all that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And they just wanted to get you, yea. And for
Speaker 1: them to keep you in jail for twenty years behind
Speaker 1: some you didn't do, right, man. And what was what
Speaker 1: was even crazier It was their expert witness, their so
Speaker 1: called expert witness, I don't understand and said, and I quote, um,
Speaker 1: we don't use what is the name of gunpowder test
Speaker 1: paraphin tests I think or something like that. They called him.
Speaker 1: They said, we don't use him in Louisiana they're unreliable.
Speaker 1: He actually said this in court, that we don't use
Speaker 1: gun polo tests in Louisiana because they're unreliable. And I
Speaker 1: wonder how that would sound to the hundreds or even
Speaker 1: thousands of guys that they have convicted using gun politests
Speaker 1: residue tests, But he had They actually said that in
Speaker 1: court because I guess they wanted to cover up for
Speaker 1: the fact or for the idea that we would have
Speaker 1: found the gun politest they once already established that that's unreliable.
Speaker 1: The guy who came forward came forward ten days after
Speaker 1: my arrest and he told him that, look, I'm the
Speaker 1: one who did it. And here's why. This was my
Speaker 1: my aunt's boyfriend at the time, my aunt's aunt fiance
Speaker 1: at the time, and they got kids together. But you know,
Speaker 1: he came forward on his own, just really feeling guilt
Speaker 1: because a person that he considered his nephew was sitting
Speaker 1: in jail for something that he pulled up. He pulled
Speaker 1: you know that that happened with him, you know, and
Speaker 1: he told him what happened, and they basically told him
Speaker 1: that they got who they wanted and they just let him.
Speaker 1: They let him go. They got who they wanted, and
Speaker 1: they told that to my dad, who they said we got.
Speaker 1: Did they ever come after him? I believe he went
Speaker 1: to court. I think they charged them with something like
Speaker 1: they charged him with accessory after the fact. Basically, basically,
Speaker 1: don't be trying to help this mother get out of jail,
Speaker 1: you know. So this is we're gonna tax you for
Speaker 1: trying to help him get out of jail. Basically, That's
Speaker 1: what that's about. So what's the process? Cuter? His name
Speaker 1: the prosecutor at the time. At the time, Bruce Daring
Speaker 1: was the prosecutor at the time, and I'm sure that
Speaker 1: has been several prosecutors since then. But how many been
Speaker 1: on this case? And he's now a convicted feller? Oh?
Speaker 1: Good for him, Yeah, he's he just got out the face.
Speaker 1: He got an early release because of COVID. But what
Speaker 1: was he convicted for. He was convicted for wire tapping,
Speaker 1: fraud and and all kinds of stuff like that. The
Speaker 1: sheriff is has has gotten convicted as of a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago. Good for him, The same sheriff that
Speaker 1: was on Good for him. He got convicted as well.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that some of those investigators have probably
Speaker 1: done some dirty stuff too, probably probably went to jail.
Speaker 1: And the sheriff has been convicted of some wild stuff
Speaker 1: man like like rape and and stuff like, Oh good
Speaker 1: for him. Throughout America, the judicial system is totally corrupt
Speaker 1: and it's biased against black people. But Louisiana has a
Speaker 1: special place for for bias and and and corruption in
Speaker 1: law enforcement and the judicial system. It's totally I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a different level of corruption. And I think these
Speaker 1: bastards needs to be exposed. What's his name was, Walter
Speaker 1: Read Walter Ree? You low down, dirty bastard. You know,
Speaker 1: people gotta know, man, People seriously, people gotta know, bro,
Speaker 1: because this this is not right. Man. What do they
Speaker 1: destroy people's lives and they don't even get punished for it? Man, Like,
Speaker 1: it's no there's no like retribution for them. Uh. And
Speaker 1: a lot of times when they get caught with their
Speaker 1: hand in the cookie jar, they won't even apologize. They
Speaker 1: will just keep it going. You Let's okay, let's say
Speaker 1: this would be the honorable thing to do. Let's say
Speaker 1: I'm a d A and and you know, I want
Speaker 1: to get this guy because I think he did it.
Speaker 1: Once I received evidence that says Otherwise, the honorable thing
Speaker 1: to do, the respectable thing to do, the thing to
Speaker 1: do that would help uh keep maintain uh confidence in
Speaker 1: the judicial system, would be for me to let this
Speaker 1: guy go because I'm trying to keep the streets safe.
Speaker 1: I mean, as a prosecutor, your number one job is
Speaker 1: public safety. That is your number one job. How in
Speaker 1: the hell is it public safety convicting innocent people and
Speaker 1: putting them in jail? You know that ship just it's
Speaker 1: just really pisces me off. And he's not by himself.
Speaker 1: That's a whole system that allows something to get away
Speaker 1: with this, that does this. The government is a part
Speaker 1: of it. Though they said it was cool to do
Speaker 1: that to black people. They made that rule. That rule
Speaker 1: was made by the government. Bro. It's just it's it's
Speaker 1: not just the state of Louisiana, the state of Texas.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the entire country. The entire country has
Speaker 1: a personal vendetta against black people. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're all aware of this, but
Speaker 1: there is a law right now, um that guys where
Speaker 1: I just came from in the prison a state, uh
Speaker 1: state along in Louisiana. They just they just made it
Speaker 1: unlawful to be convicted without a unanimous jewelry. Right now,
Speaker 1: Louisiana was one of two states that still was allowing
Speaker 1: capital offenses to be convicted without a unanimous jewelry. And
Speaker 1: what happened was we proved and in the language it
Speaker 1: was overturned because it was written for racial uh with
Speaker 1: racial intentions at the time. This Yet they don't want
Speaker 1: to make it retroactive. They right, it's like for everybody
Speaker 1: that convicted does fall you know from this point, it's
Speaker 1: like you made you you change this law because of
Speaker 1: how it affected people in the past. But you don't
Speaker 1: want to want to retroact to get the guy. You
Speaker 1: just want to do it from because people like see murder,
Speaker 1: he would get out right because he was convicted, would
Speaker 1: attend to to jury just like me. And what was
Speaker 1: the racial makeup of your jury? All white got as
Speaker 1: They haven't even been a time in American history where
Speaker 1: all black jury has I don't know even just judge,
Speaker 1: not that I can even think, I know, I'm gonna,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out on the limits, say not, Like
Speaker 1: who in their right mind thinks that that is cool
Speaker 1: for an all white jury to judge a black person
Speaker 1: or any person that's other than white who thinks that's cool.
Speaker 1: A jury of your peers should be just that, the
Speaker 1: jury of your peers, people who come from who share
Speaker 1: the same ethnicity, who come from the same background that
Speaker 1: you have, and even the same social class that you have,
Speaker 1: because there are rich people who can't identify with people
Speaker 1: that are poor. You saying something, You're just saying something.
Speaker 1: Most of my jurors were not, even in my age,
Speaker 1: were insensitive to your situation period. Okay, many, many, many
Speaker 1: of your jurors are all I would say, I would
Speaker 1: take a risk and say all of them that all
Speaker 1: of them probably were indoctrinated to look at you as
Speaker 1: the enemy anyway, So you know, what's the difference. What
Speaker 1: is the difference if we convict this guy and throw
Speaker 1: his life away and take them away from his family?
Speaker 1: Why why you were gone? I want to ask you this,
Speaker 1: Who in your family that was close to you that
Speaker 1: you lost? Anybody died that was close to a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of friends died. You know, I had
Speaker 1: some older family members, but as far as in my
Speaker 1: immediate family, we all still here. Watched a lot of
Speaker 1: the I had the whole I had to later and
Speaker 1: let guys crown on my shoulder who lost their moms
Speaker 1: come everything, man, And then they don't have to they
Speaker 1: don't have a d C to let them out to
Speaker 1: go to the funerals either. Know, well, see what they
Speaker 1: was doing now, man, it's crazy something they're doing like
Speaker 1: virtual funerals. Now you get to see it on the
Speaker 1: screen rather than even going into the funeral. And it's
Speaker 1: it's just basically taking the personal. You know, it's taking
Speaker 1: the person that personal goodbye. Yeah, it's get off of guys,
Speaker 1: you know, because you family is really for the guys
Speaker 1: in prison. What I've noticed without family support, man, I
Speaker 1: watched a lot of guys just break down. Man. You know,
Speaker 1: so people out there that's listening, if you've got family
Speaker 1: members in prison, man support them. I mean even if
Speaker 1: not even not all the time sending the money, man,
Speaker 1: just letting them know that you know they exist and
Speaker 1: that you care, because I know, for me, it's what
Speaker 1: carried me through. You know, my mom she didn't know
Speaker 1: what to do when I first got arrest of my
Speaker 1: parents and do with my mom just started. She's an artist,
Speaker 1: so she started painting portraits of guys who she felt
Speaker 1: wrongfully convicted. She did mine, and she just contact for
Speaker 1: your mom because I want to get some of those pictures.
Speaker 1: I want to buy some of those pictures. I'm building
Speaker 1: a studio. That would be that's that's a great idea.
Speaker 1: She didn't know what else to generally send it to
Speaker 1: me first. That's why I don't. That's why we don't.
Speaker 1: I don't like this, dude. That would be great, man,
Speaker 1: she did, because you know, we could do some big
Speaker 1: things with this. Really think about the n f T S.
Speaker 1: We could really do something big. But that's somebody's likeness.
Speaker 1: Will you can't use that what you're talking about somebody's
Speaker 1: We're gonna work with the people the images like however,
Speaker 1: we're gonna make sure everybody get broke off. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: that that's what that's that was her thing. She didn't
Speaker 1: know what to do something really always talk about money,
Speaker 1: bro she told she told her this money right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she basically told the story to anybody who would
Speaker 1: listen at that time. And eventually it started gaining momentum
Speaker 1: and you know, bigger media outlets took on it and
Speaker 1: then um, you know, it was it was that support
Speaker 1: from her and my dad. They visited me like every
Speaker 1: two weeks, no matter where I went, no matter what
Speaker 1: prison I went to, they was there. And eventually I
Speaker 1: met my wife. She came about nine years ago and
Speaker 1: we've been rocking like that ever since. And my brothers
Speaker 1: and sisters, my siblings and all of them, they all
Speaker 1: just with my friends, we all had a lot of support.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of people that that assisted me in
Speaker 1: carrying my head up the way I did, you know,
Speaker 1: because I think if I would have been alone, I
Speaker 1: don't know if I had been able to handle it
Speaker 1: by myself. O. Man, they gave you something for nothing. Bro,
Speaker 1: you ain't did ship and pause for the cause of
Speaker 1: just saluting everybody that supported you, Ineed. I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: you something, man, you were very very fortunate to not
Speaker 1: lose any immediate family members. Twenty years. That's a long time,
Speaker 1: you know. You know with that at any point, I
Speaker 1: know you had a lot of support, But at any
Speaker 1: point did you think about giving up? No, I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest with you. I couldn't. I mean
Speaker 1: from the moment, and I don't say this in the
Speaker 1: cliche saying well i'm i'm I'm, I'm telling you the
Speaker 1: real like you know, I went from the moment I
Speaker 1: was in there, I was like, yo, I gotta get
Speaker 1: out of here. So while people was on the streets
Speaker 1: working to get me out, I felt that I had
Speaker 1: to do my part and work from the inside to
Speaker 1: get out, to take all of the programs I can take,
Speaker 1: and to you know, better better myself in whatever way
Speaker 1: is I need to do it so be prepared for
Speaker 1: any opportunity that came forward. So, in fact, I got
Speaker 1: out because of one of those opportunities. I made myself. Um,
Speaker 1: I made myself basically available for mentorship. I did a
Speaker 1: lot of serve community service in a prison, and I
Speaker 1: just was a part of anything that was helping others.
Speaker 1: And as a result, when it was the opportunity to
Speaker 1: get Clemenson and parole came up, I was giving it.
Speaker 1: So I knew the whole time that I was there
Speaker 1: that I was gonna get out. I believe that I I
Speaker 1: was gonna get out every year, Like I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get out this year. It's gonna be the year.
Speaker 1: So your conviction wasn't overturned, Yeah, I'm on parole. Come on.
Speaker 1: In fact, I had to get permission to be out
Speaker 1: in Houston. Are you gonna pursue like like a monetary
Speaker 1: settlement in this situation, Well, what I would first had
Speaker 1: when we're first trying to do, get in the compensation
Speaker 1: as if I get exonerated, because as of now, I'm
Speaker 1: still a convicted felon, but I'm still I still have
Speaker 1: like nine years on parole and so and so they
Speaker 1: have monetary incentives to not parole, I mean, to not
Speaker 1: you know, pardon you, to not exonerate you, because if
Speaker 1: they do, they know you're coming with a lawsuit and
Speaker 1: they know you they're gonna have to pay for it.
Speaker 1: So I mean, you gotta have some cold blooded lawyers
Speaker 1: and some cold blooded representation. But I also think that
Speaker 1: you need to take your fight to the public. The
Speaker 1: public needs to know because if it's under the table
Speaker 1: like we don't know, like we can't help you, like
Speaker 1: you know, it's like we can. You can have your
Speaker 1: your your your core support and all that stuff, but
Speaker 1: public sentiment goes a long way, and I think you
Speaker 1: can This is one of those cases that could be
Speaker 1: used as basically, like uh, you know, as a as
Speaker 1: a template you know too, you know, for some type
Speaker 1: of not just not just retribution in terms of monetary
Speaker 1: but but also some type of reform. Are you involved
Speaker 1: in any type of reform right? Well, there's one of
Speaker 1: the bills that I'm actually supporting right now is from
Speaker 1: I think it's as a representative from Louisiana, from from
Speaker 1: my area. He's supporting a bill that gives parole to
Speaker 1: lifeless all across the board, because there is no life
Speaker 1: with parole law in Louisiana. Like when they give you
Speaker 1: natural life in Louisiana, they mean life. Ain't no parole
Speaker 1: for like, there's no life for parole. They passed the
Speaker 1: law a couple of years ago where they're giving guys
Speaker 1: who were convicted as juveniles, they're giving them opportunity to
Speaker 1: get parole after twenty five years. But as far as
Speaker 1: if you're not, if you weren't convicted as a juvenile,
Speaker 1: there is no life with parole in Louisiana. Is strictly
Speaker 1: across the board without parole, our life. Um, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's yeah. So that's that's something that's indeed,
Speaker 1: that's something I'm all supporting. I'm also supporting the bill
Speaker 1: that um to to retroact Um, the tender the tender
Speaker 1: to the United Unanimates jeury. I'm definitely supporting that, and
Speaker 1: and there's some other things that are you know, I've
Speaker 1: been discussing with different UM politicians and UM in in
Speaker 1: New Orleans in particular because I'm not from St. Samity
Speaker 1: Parish where my crime occurred. I'm from New Orleans. But
Speaker 1: we're trying to get some stuff past in the state
Speaker 1: to try to help all of the guy where decline occurred. Yeah,
Speaker 1: whether the crime good, point where the crime occurred. So
Speaker 1: I'm definitely UM, I'm definitely I've definitely been a part
Speaker 1: of the reform effort. That's what I say, because I
Speaker 1: don't want this to happen anybody. And I see UM there.
Speaker 1: I think recently in New York they're trying to they're
Speaker 1: pushing for a bill to stop song lyrics from being
Speaker 1: used against you in court because the lyrics to my
Speaker 1: song Murder, Murder, Kill Kill, was actually used against me
Speaker 1: in court. They what they the way they used it, it
Speaker 1: it was, it was slick. How the d A did it.
Speaker 1: He basically said he can't use it as actual evidence
Speaker 1: because my lawyer was objecting that. So what he did
Speaker 1: was said he was trying to establish it. Um established
Speaker 1: my character basically, show how this man talks about murder
Speaker 1: and about killing. And that was the grounds it was
Speaker 1: allowed in court on that, not as actual evidence, but
Speaker 1: he used yeah, the pain the character of me, no
Speaker 1: different than he would have somebody step up on the
Speaker 1: witness stand and say this is his character, right, And
Speaker 1: this this man actually said in it. And I was like, man,
Speaker 1: it blowed my mind. He was like, ladies and gentle
Speaker 1: with the jury, help me move or help me remove
Speaker 1: the camouflage from this assassin. So because one of my
Speaker 1: monicas in the song was camouflage assassin. So I'm sitting
Speaker 1: there looking at it, listening to my music. So I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: this dude is good. I'm in my mind I might
Speaker 1: have said, how you him? Because this dude basically is
Speaker 1: painting his picture to the jewelry and then and the
Speaker 1: prosecutor and they're eating it up, and I'm just like,
Speaker 1: he's in jail them. No, the d eight went to prison.
Speaker 1: He's out now, not the prosecutor. D A actually went.
Speaker 1: But it was it was nefarious. Of course, he had
Speaker 1: nothing else to he he had nothing else to go on.
Speaker 1: I didn't I don't have a criminal record. I don't
Speaker 1: have any I never got in trouble, so he didn't
Speaker 1: have anything to go on. So he basically had to
Speaker 1: go to my music it and he went through it
Speaker 1: and he found anywhere. He actually walked past my lawyer
Speaker 1: with a folder like this thick, and he said, he
Speaker 1: basically told my lawyer, if you put him on the stand,
Speaker 1: I got him because I got both of his albums
Speaker 1: right here. Anything he said on these albums, he was
Speaker 1: gonna bring it up in court. So when you put
Speaker 1: on the stand. No, my lawyer actually told me. And
Speaker 1: I think it was a decision. I made the decision,
Speaker 1: but I don't think it was a good one. He
Speaker 1: basically told me that he didn't think I should get
Speaker 1: understand and he told me his reasons why. And because
Speaker 1: I was young, I didn't know the law, I took
Speaker 1: his advice. I'm paying you, I'm I'm expecting you know
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. So I didn't get understand. I
Speaker 1: think I should have. But you know, it's that's very
Speaker 1: very tricky, and I you know, most lawyers would tell
Speaker 1: you do not testify. You know in your own case.
Speaker 1: It's very very tricky. Expency the thing is that you
Speaker 1: don't have the secret sauce. You don't have white tears. See,
Speaker 1: if you have white tears, man, ship, you can get
Speaker 1: on stage and you can don't understand I'm saying stage,
Speaker 1: but it's pretty much you can say whatever you want
Speaker 1: to say. Man, Man, look man say man. No matter
Speaker 1: what that case is, no matter what the evidence is against,
Speaker 1: they could have video footage of it and everything. If
Speaker 1: you white, bro, you can cry, bro, and somebody gonna
Speaker 1: connect somebody in that jewelry, that white jewelry gonna connect
Speaker 1: to them white tears, man, because it's something about the
Speaker 1: white tears, and white tears is evidence of innocence, I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what they I know exactly is something
Speaker 1: going on. It's like them dawn, white tears and something else. Bro,
Speaker 1: I know exactly what you at because the way I
Speaker 1: kind of here's my perception. My perception is, I don't
Speaker 1: think that most people are racist, but I do think
Speaker 1: that most people are prejudiced, because I think that most
Speaker 1: people pre judge, and when you already have a preconceived
Speaker 1: idea of what you think a person is, the damage
Speaker 1: is done before it even starts. I think the trial
Speaker 1: was finished. Because I believe that many of the Jewelry
Speaker 1: members already had a certain way I appeared to them,
Speaker 1: and for whatever reasons, because I try to be as
Speaker 1: objective as possible, but for whatever reasons, I think they
Speaker 1: already saw me a certain way. And because they did,
Speaker 1: if you cannot stop that from affecting the way they
Speaker 1: passed their judgment. You know that the the lawyers are
Speaker 1: gonna say, and the judge is gonna say, listen, judge
Speaker 1: this basically on the facts, don't do this. Don't But
Speaker 1: I mean, that's unrealistic. It's just like the things that
Speaker 1: are d a blurred out in the court and then
Speaker 1: your lawyer to say objection and to say forget what
Speaker 1: you just heard. You can't make these people forget what
Speaker 1: they just heard. I think all people are prejudiced. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I think we all prejudge everybody to an
Speaker 1: extent right. But the danger is when you are using
Speaker 1: that prejudgment to convict and ruin people's lives, you know,
Speaker 1: put people in jail, get people killed. That's when it
Speaker 1: becomes dangerous. And that's when we have to at at
Speaker 1: some point as a human like like like dig down
Speaker 1: and inside of you for that human emotion that tells
Speaker 1: you to be objective. This is a human being, a
Speaker 1: person whose life is going to be affected by the
Speaker 1: decision that I make. And as a human being, I
Speaker 1: don't care what your race is, your ethnicity, your background,
Speaker 1: your class. I don't want that on my conscious. I
Speaker 1: don't want to convict an innocent person. You know, as
Speaker 1: much as I hate these dirty ass Confederate white folks,
Speaker 1: as much as I hate them, I would not I
Speaker 1: would not want it on my conscious that I just
Speaker 1: convicted a white person of something. That is because just
Speaker 1: because I have a I asked against these type of
Speaker 1: white people, right, I asked the ground against these type
Speaker 1: of weapons. I would not just say he white, just
Speaker 1: like all the rest of I'm gonna ruin their life
Speaker 1: if I get a chance. That's not me. I'm not
Speaker 1: built like that man. And I think that's just some dirty,
Speaker 1: low down ship and they don't get a pass for
Speaker 1: being prejudiced, right, And I think I think that's because
Speaker 1: that that's just your heart, that shows who you are
Speaker 1: as a person. And I mean, any any person what
Speaker 1: a good moral compass is not gonna want that because
Speaker 1: we want for others what we want for ourselves, and
Speaker 1: I think what what One of the issues I believe
Speaker 1: the part that the community plays is these I think
Speaker 1: we have these false um expectations of our community leaders.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of these d a's and sheriffs or whatnot,
Speaker 1: they're voted by the people, and they all they have
Speaker 1: expectations by whoever is the majority in their districts. And
Speaker 1: you know, they have this persona, we're tough on crime
Speaker 1: where you know where where X, y and z. But
Speaker 1: it's like, man, at some point, you have to be
Speaker 1: a human being and make a good make good judgment
Speaker 1: based because I'm with you at that because people without
Speaker 1: more flexibility scared the hell out of me. You know.
Speaker 1: These are the people that like, oh, you know, I
Speaker 1: would never and then they find themselves a family member
Speaker 1: or something like that, and then they never. Right, it's
Speaker 1: and that's and that's what I think it boils down to.
Speaker 1: I think that we just we have to because a
Speaker 1: lot of those d a's, and this is not excuse
Speaker 1: for them. They have pressure from the community. Oh you
Speaker 1: got to be tough. We don't want that in our community.
Speaker 1: So now they're feeling neither. I'm gonna get this conviction
Speaker 1: no matter what. So it's it's it's almost like it's
Speaker 1: just a demon seed planet or something, and it's just
Speaker 1: spiles around, you know, spials right, everybody's partaking in it.
Speaker 1: You know. Tough phone crime. When I hear spoken, it's
Speaker 1: tough owned black people. That's what that is. That's cold
Speaker 1: for tough on black people, because we already know we've
Speaker 1: seen many many cases where white people do some of
Speaker 1: the most egregious things ever and just they slide like
Speaker 1: the Jackson fly I mean, he slash moved out the
Speaker 1: court room just like you know, let me look at
Speaker 1: that tape. Woman. Remember the woman who killed all our kids,
Speaker 1: Andrea Yates. Yeah, Andrea Yates drowned six of her kids, man,
Speaker 1: and they sent it to a mental house pitifore ye,
Speaker 1: and she back at the house kicking it. You know.
Speaker 1: The woman who ran over her husband and stuff and
Speaker 1: they let her skate. You know, Like I mean, here's
Speaker 1: so many cases of this, like these type of things
Speaker 1: the pretty much never happened to black people in the
Speaker 1: judicial system. I mean, and I say this with with
Speaker 1: all objectivity, stand your ground laws don't work for us,
Speaker 1: you know what they don't. It's like there wasn't because
Speaker 1: they wasn't made for us. Man, the law doesn't work
Speaker 1: for us because it was not made. It was not
Speaker 1: put in place with us in mind. The law. Andrew
Speaker 1: Jackson said out of his mouth that this is a
Speaker 1: white man's country with white man laws, and it always
Speaker 1: will be as long as I'm president or whatever, it's
Speaker 1: gonna stay like that. That's what Andrew Jackson said. The law. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the laws were made to have us to have a
Speaker 1: certain structure for society at large. Right, And so this
Speaker 1: is why when you look at the laws, that's so
Speaker 1: much latitude that they give judges. Right, they can said
Speaker 1: judging in some cases give you anything from they could
Speaker 1: let you go. Sometimes they can give you probation if
Speaker 1: a jury is sentencing you, or they can give you
Speaker 1: a life sentence, or they can give you a life sentence.
Speaker 1: And then what does it call when they defer that sentence,
Speaker 1: where you know, they'll say, okay, you do a year
Speaker 1: of probation or whatever, and then we're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 1: throw the sentence, not they going to vacate the sentence
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, and suspended, yes, suspended sentences. They can
Speaker 1: do so much. They have so much lattitude. These judges
Speaker 1: have too much power. Let me say that judges have
Speaker 1: too much power, way too much power. Prosecute d A
Speaker 1: s d as have too much power. When you can
Speaker 1: walk into a room of a few people and you
Speaker 1: can put a case in front of people that could
Speaker 1: possibly ruin somebody's lives or change the trajectory of somebody's life,
Speaker 1: and and and you get to present all the evidence
Speaker 1: and sway it however you want to and tell the
Speaker 1: jury not these are the rules that you have to
Speaker 1: look at this evidence spot and the person that you're
Speaker 1: you're trying to get an indictment on, they don't have
Speaker 1: any representation in that room, but you do. Is like
Speaker 1: it's it's totally messed up the whole process. It's regged,
Speaker 1: it's rigged, and it's biased, and it's all it's all
Speaker 1: too um give certain people breaks and and and to
Speaker 1: punish others. These laws. When you look at these laws,
Speaker 1: they're designed to protect some and to punish others. And
Speaker 1: and I think that was because and not to cut
Speaker 1: you all, but I think that was because at that time,
Speaker 1: I don't know if the forefathers or whoever wrote these laws,
Speaker 1: saw what the country would look like today. And I
Speaker 1: think that where we do um where we go wrong.
Speaker 1: And I'm and I'm speaking of society as a whole
Speaker 1: when we uphold things that were written at this time
Speaker 1: just because it was written in history and we're trying
Speaker 1: to honor the forefalls. What the forefathers didn't see the
Speaker 1: country the way it is. They didn't know that the
Speaker 1: Africans that they brought over here, we're gonna eventually be free.
Speaker 1: They didn't know that society was gonna eventually be h
Speaker 1: this type of assimilation that we have or this this
Speaker 1: melting pot that we all. They didn't see that. So
Speaker 1: I think that the law is now, the law should
Speaker 1: reflect the way the way the country is now. And
Speaker 1: I think the only way that can happen is if
Speaker 1: we can get the majority of the people to see
Speaker 1: things that way, to see it, like Yo, we need
Speaker 1: to not revisit just like they did in Louisiana, LB it.
Speaker 1: They didn't retroact it, but they actually overturned that law
Speaker 1: because they said that law was specifically written in the
Speaker 1: language to make sure that if a black man was
Speaker 1: on trial or black person was on trial, they would
Speaker 1: never have enough, um that all it would take was
Speaker 1: tend people to convict them, right, and they would never
Speaker 1: let more than two blacks in the jury, so that's
Speaker 1: all you needed. And then if it was a white
Speaker 1: person on trial, they would never have more than uh
Speaker 1: two blacks senates, so they couldn't they wouldn't have the
Speaker 1: power to convict them. They specifically said this in the
Speaker 1: language of the law, and because so it was overturned.
Speaker 1: My my problem with it is why you don't retroact
Speaker 1: it so it can affect the people that that has
Speaker 1: been affected by all these years. But I think that
Speaker 1: if we take that approach to all of the laws
Speaker 1: that are biased in that way, I think that we
Speaker 1: can change society. Yeah, I think that you're absolutely right,
Speaker 1: But I do want to make a a distinction here
Speaker 1: about you know, well, the forefathers of this country were
Speaker 1: some low down, racist, dirty, connive, and thieve and corrupt motherfucker's.
Speaker 1: I need to go on record and say that. So
Speaker 1: when you say we that's fine. But I never liked
Speaker 1: the motherfucker's. I never liked them. I never like their
Speaker 1: mamas and dadd is. I don't like their grandpathers and
Speaker 1: grand manners. I don't like none of their children period.
Speaker 1: Fuck them the long way, fuck them, because if not
Speaker 1: for what they did, then you don't have this type
Speaker 1: of country in the first place. With all of these
Speaker 1: this bias and this systemic racism, which really keeps us
Speaker 1: at odds because really we have more in common than
Speaker 1: we have differences, all of us. I'm talking about straight
Speaker 1: across the board, all of us. We have more in
Speaker 1: common than we have differences. But what we wake up
Speaker 1: every day thinking about this fucking race shit. Every day
Speaker 1: it's this it's this racial ship and its classism. That's
Speaker 1: what we're fighting over every day. Racism and classism. Racism
Speaker 1: the first of all. At least classism is something that
Speaker 1: that that you can control to an extent, because it's
Speaker 1: really a lot has to do with your grind. But
Speaker 1: racism like like like we wake up, we're born the
Speaker 1: way we we are. We can't help we can't take
Speaker 1: credit for the way our skin color. We wake up
Speaker 1: and we're like, you know what I'm listening, It's like, motherfucker,
Speaker 1: you didn't. You're not responsible for that, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. And you're not responsible for your looks. You're
Speaker 1: any of that, but like, go out and do something, motherfucker,
Speaker 1: achieve something, accomplished something, and then you can tell me
Speaker 1: how proud you are about this and that or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, But I think that, But it's it's that,
Speaker 1: It's that, it's those people. It's people out there that
Speaker 1: they have to keep the race ship going, to keep
Speaker 1: us distracted and keep us confused, because if they don't,
Speaker 1: then we all gonna wake up and say, nah, motherfucker
Speaker 1: you motherfucker's are really the ones, and we can then
Speaker 1: go out of these motherfucker's, who are they? Members of Congress,
Speaker 1: your local politicians, uh, your your your your your, your
Speaker 1: congressmen and women, your senators, your your representatives, your city
Speaker 1: council members, the gatekeepers, they're the ones. They're are the ones.
Speaker 1: These motherfucker's are riding to the car. You know when
Speaker 1: I when I ran for city council, you know, it
Speaker 1: was the gatekeepers that looked like me that seemed to
Speaker 1: have a bigger problem with me coming in and wanting
Speaker 1: to do something for the people. There's some fucking gatekeepers, bro. Now,
Speaker 1: why why do you think, why do you think the
Speaker 1: ones that looked like us or the world, Why do
Speaker 1: you think they had a problem with it. Well, they
Speaker 1: they're jocking for position. Oh you're gonna try to take
Speaker 1: my spot. Oh you're gonna expose something, cause I'm expose
Speaker 1: the ashes. You know, I ain't gonna let it go down.
Speaker 1: You ain't gonna do if I got the juice, I
Speaker 1: got the power to do something about it. You ain't
Speaker 1: gonna do my people dirty. So and oh yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make him my people get a fair amount of
Speaker 1: them damn contracts and ship Oh yeah, we're gonna get
Speaker 1: all all that. I'm not. I'm not. And that's how
Speaker 1: you supposed to be anyway. But they're sitting up in
Speaker 1: there on their asses and getting just for them and
Speaker 1: their people, their little friends, their little hustle group, and
Speaker 1: they're making sure I can't let him in. He's gonna
Speaker 1: try to miss with our stuff. He's gonna miss it
Speaker 1: up for us, you see, and and these and yeah
Speaker 1: and so a lot of times the other gatekeepers they
Speaker 1: don't have to do nothing because you got the first
Speaker 1: of all, get past your own, and you ain't gonna
Speaker 1: it's hard to get past the motherfucker's because they gonna
Speaker 1: they're gonna tea They're gonna team up on you, bro,
Speaker 1: and so you're fighting. You're very you're fighting the uphill battle.
Speaker 1: But I mean, but it's one that I think any
Speaker 1: honorable person just, you know, I would just say, you know,
Speaker 1: that's what it is. And you know, why not me?
Speaker 1: If if I got to fight that out of that's
Speaker 1: the battle line fight, I mean, I ain't. I ain't
Speaker 1: scared the fight, you know. And I really and I
Speaker 1: really have a personal sustain for bullies. I don't like bullies.
Speaker 1: And a lot of these politicians family are bullies. They
Speaker 1: got these suits so on and these fancy dresses and ship,
Speaker 1: and they walk around here and they tell a little
Speaker 1: fancy speeches, you know. They show up at the at
Speaker 1: the at the at your grandma fifth it anniversary party,
Speaker 1: you know, and they show up at the graduation, They
Speaker 1: show up for when somebody die, and they go in
Speaker 1: and take the picture anytime the cameras around there. And
Speaker 1: then that's enough to get them re elected. But you
Speaker 1: can't name one thing that they did for the community
Speaker 1: to change your life. You can't even name anything they've done.
Speaker 1: We got so many people in office that looked like
Speaker 1: us who ain't doing ship with that position all they're
Speaker 1: doing is getting re elected and patting their pockets. Man,
Speaker 1: it's a cold game. And that's say and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: tell you and and and to just to comment on
Speaker 1: what you said in a few minutes ago. It's like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest with you at this point in
Speaker 1: human history because I always always sometimes take myself just
Speaker 1: back and kind of look at the world from two
Speaker 1: million miles away. At this point in history, racism don't
Speaker 1: make any sense. It's like you, first of all, we
Speaker 1: know too much too even we know too much now
Speaker 1: number one and number two, there's no law against my race.
Speaker 1: So I don't care if you're racist, You're you're stupid
Speaker 1: fool because I look at like that's your laws. So
Speaker 1: you ain't gonna take my dollars and your stoke because
Speaker 1: I'm not your racist. So if I come to buy
Speaker 1: something from you, you think you're not you're gonna do
Speaker 1: you really think you're gonna tell me you don't want
Speaker 1: my money? So sometimes it's like I just sometimes I
Speaker 1: see people that are racist, and I'm just like, how
Speaker 1: does that even benefit you in anyway? Yeah, because I
Speaker 1: can you can't stop me from being successful, So what difference.
Speaker 1: Like what I guess what I'm saying is like what
Speaker 1: is what is the benefit of And I'm talking about individuals,
Speaker 1: not systemic, but what is the benefit of your racism?
Speaker 1: Like I think, I like, I think a lot of
Speaker 1: times man at racism is just people. I think I
Speaker 1: see racism as like an emotional crutch and this is
Speaker 1: this is what I mean. Watch so emotional check this out.
Speaker 1: So when we when we're when we are born and
Speaker 1: we're raised and we we we grew up with certain
Speaker 1: convictions in life, right, and there's certain things that create
Speaker 1: fear in us. Uh, perhaps you grew up poor, Perhaps
Speaker 1: you grew up where your parents were abusive. Uh, maybe
Speaker 1: you had a girlfriend or a boyfriend that did your dirty.
Speaker 1: If you're racist, those people probably look like you, right,
Speaker 1: your parents, you know, your your your boyfriend, your girlfriend,
Speaker 1: because after all your real racist, so you don't be
Speaker 1: dating saturation. These people that give you your strongest convictions,
Speaker 1: your friend that betrayed you, it's probably your same color. Right,
Speaker 1: So these things give us the strong our strongest convictions.
Speaker 1: And if you got robbed by somebody, it's probably somebody
Speaker 1: looks like you. Somebody store your money, somebody owe your money.
Speaker 1: It's probably might look like you because you go along
Speaker 1: with somebody you know that you don't like, you know
Speaker 1: from another group, you know your money, right, So all
Speaker 1: of these things you know, really shape us and make
Speaker 1: us who we are and give us the strongest convictions
Speaker 1: that we have. So if you are really going to
Speaker 1: hate an entire group of people just based on their
Speaker 1: skin color, if you're gonna if you're gonna hate somebody,
Speaker 1: it really doesn't make sense because us the people who
Speaker 1: look like you are probably the ones who did you
Speaker 1: the dirtiest, the probably the ones who hurt you the most.
Speaker 1: I mean personally, I'm not saying sitting back like, oh
Speaker 1: I don't like them, Oh he said this? Who they
Speaker 1: said this about them? Now I'm talking about people who
Speaker 1: have You have personal connections, with personal life experiences with
Speaker 1: the source, the direct source of your pain, your agony,
Speaker 1: from your depression, It comes from people. It stems from
Speaker 1: people who look just like you. Why don't you hate them?
Speaker 1: Because that's too much like righte motherfucker, that's why you
Speaker 1: don't and your ass no that you're gonna run out
Speaker 1: of people and you don't want and you don't want
Speaker 1: to hate them because you want to be around him.
Speaker 1: You want to be around them, right, So it's just
Speaker 1: a matter when you start talking about racism, it's just
Speaker 1: these are motherfucker's who just don't want to get along,
Speaker 1: don't want to like somebody. It don't got nothing to
Speaker 1: do with how you who you are as a person,
Speaker 1: as a human being. It's just that I just don't
Speaker 1: like mother. So whatever somebody say negative about you, whatever
Speaker 1: judgments that are negative judgments are, they're gonna eat it
Speaker 1: up because that's what they want. They want to eat it.
Speaker 1: That's why you have people that sit around on social
Speaker 1: media when crimes are committed. They sit around and they
Speaker 1: wait to find out what the race of the person
Speaker 1: was before they decide how they feel about the case.
Speaker 1: How they're gonna come in on that particular case and
Speaker 1: not not white everybody, everybody does it. They sit around
Speaker 1: and wait, let me see what the race of the
Speaker 1: person is first, before I decide the time, Yeah, how
Speaker 1: I feel about this? When that shouldn't be it's crazy.
Speaker 1: That should go back to what you said initially. If
Speaker 1: you're a human being, you should be able to objectively
Speaker 1: empathize with any human being, and most people just don't
Speaker 1: do that with it. I mean, it's unfortunately. It's unfortunate, man.
Speaker 1: And I just I even I'm gonna tell you, like
Speaker 1: even sitting in prison. I haven't been sitting in the
Speaker 1: dayrooms in certain prisons where we're watching the news and
Speaker 1: a brother getting arrested for something. Yeah, here a brother
Speaker 1: and they're like, man, they need to get him a
Speaker 1: hundre years. Damn damn. Like so when it's somebody else's child, Oh,
Speaker 1: I wanted to get a hundred years, But when it's
Speaker 1: your child, man, have mercy on my baby? Are you
Speaker 1: and are you man? Please have mercy on me. So
Speaker 1: I think that it goes back to we have to
Speaker 1: start wanting for others what we want fire ourselves. I
Speaker 1: think that's one of the biggest problems that the human
Speaker 1: being in general have, is just not wanting for others
Speaker 1: what we want for ourselves. And I think we got
Speaker 1: a big column in our community with self hate. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like we do not want
Speaker 1: to see us come up. We always got something shitty
Speaker 1: to say about each other. Let's you know us some
Speaker 1: of us do. I mean, I gotta put we any
Speaker 1: because I'm black too, know what I'm saying, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't give a funk about I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: talk about people behind their backs, but we is. It
Speaker 1: is too general of a statement. It's almost like saying
Speaker 1: it's almost it's almost saying imagine, imagine some woman saying,
Speaker 1: man ain't ship. That's not true. Some man ship. Maybe
Speaker 1: you can even say most man ain't ship. Many man
Speaker 1: ain't ship. But there are some upstanding me and out
Speaker 1: there that's not fat to just say man ain't ship.
Speaker 1: It's almost generalizing people again each other, some of us.
Speaker 1: I know a few, Yeah, I do too. What I'm
Speaker 1: just saying anything that anybody know. But when you say us,
Speaker 1: it's a general statement, and generally for black people. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Not Willie will exclude, will exclude because
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not either man. I like to see
Speaker 1: everybody win. I mean, man, just just win one time, y'all,
Speaker 1: like like like, let us win one time, right, No
Speaker 1: letting No, I don't believe in letting fun that we're
Speaker 1: gonna win. Just you know we're gonna win and get
Speaker 1: to get out the way. We're gonna knock you the
Speaker 1: funk out the way. That's how you win. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't ask motherfucker to let you win. I ain't
Speaker 1: letting the motherfucker win nothing. And and I like I
Speaker 1: like to see and and and that's a good point.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it this way. I like to see
Speaker 1: people win because when people when people win, they happen.
Speaker 1: And when everybody happen, everybody, you know what to make
Speaker 1: everybody happen. If Matt came out with a new album,
Speaker 1: now I guess what, I got one cooking. It'll be
Speaker 1: probably early next year. I would say that it'll it'll
Speaker 1: be released. I'm just getting everything together. I had a lot,
Speaker 1: but I wrote a lot of songs over a lot
Speaker 1: of years. And I'm gonna just say this. I want
Speaker 1: to stay this for the record. When I first heard
Speaker 1: never Seen a Man Cry, I almost threw my whole
Speaker 1: notepad away. In nineteen ninety five, I think for not info.
Speaker 1: My partner n O Juwel came to the city, called
Speaker 1: me and my boy Watt and let us here. Before
Speaker 1: it came out, we heard it. I sat there, we
Speaker 1: looked at each other in the car and I said, man,
Speaker 1: why am I rapping? Brother? It was that powerful because
Speaker 1: I had never heard nobody rap like that. This dude
Speaker 1: sounded like this, this guy named Scarface. You know, he
Speaker 1: was rapping like a preacher delivering a eulogy. And I
Speaker 1: had never heard that before. Answer a whole lot of crazy, man,
Speaker 1: I was sitting there like that. So I basically had
Speaker 1: concluded that he was high and drunk in the middle
Speaker 1: of a graveyard at two o'clock in the morning when
Speaker 1: he wrote it, that's what That's what I had told myself,
Speaker 1: high and drunk, but now pain pain killers. I had
Speaker 1: broke my fist and I was to join that drunk
Speaker 1: middle like I took a pain and I was high
Speaker 1: as fucked, and I said that you let Lord of
Speaker 1: let me come down. I ain't never do good ship again.
Speaker 1: So I wrote, yeah, you you definitely put us in
Speaker 1: the room. Man, you you definitely put us in the room.
Speaker 1: Now beautiful. With that being said, like, I'm done, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna not rapping ship no more anyway. Man, So
Speaker 1: I don't have when you put that next record, how
Speaker 1: many you're gonna have a lot of old guys from
Speaker 1: no limit on there in any of the guys from
Speaker 1: five or four boys. Yes, some of the guys are
Speaker 1: gonna be on there. I'll have some of my my
Speaker 1: family members of course, because my all of my brothers
Speaker 1: and sisters are musicians, like um so that like you,
Speaker 1: I think I heard it. My sister is a singer,
Speaker 1: one of my sisters a producer. One of my little
Speaker 1: brothers used to actually play the trombone for Salang and uh,
Speaker 1: he traveled a lot more. And my other brother is
Speaker 1: a saxophone player. And my oldest younger brother because I'm
Speaker 1: the oldest. Job. He raps, but he's a computer engineer,
Speaker 1: so he's just he's just doing it for fun. But
Speaker 1: we all they're all going to be a part of it.
Speaker 1: My son as well. My son is a rapper. And
Speaker 1: my son actually just made me a Grandpaul wind Stay.
Speaker 1: So I want to say graduation, yeah Pa, Yeah, he
Speaker 1: raps and and you know he um he grinding. You know,
Speaker 1: he grinding. He's doing his his thing. Man. And so
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a collective of people on it. I
Speaker 1: would like to get some of some of these legends
Speaker 1: on it, like will it uh like like Brad, you know,
Speaker 1: I would like to get some of these people commit. Man,
Speaker 1: I got one, I just got one criterion and that's
Speaker 1: a man. Just make the beat dope. Oh yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I'm a man, don't be dope. And I want to
Speaker 1: do something on a on a New Orleans type, but
Speaker 1: I want to bounce on it, man, I want to
Speaker 1: bounce on it. A bounce be Now I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tell you this. This is the weird thing is
Speaker 1: oh man. When I started before Bounce came out. So
Speaker 1: you know, when my album come out in the eighties
Speaker 1: and then eight and nine or whatever, Bounce wasn't out yet.
Speaker 1: So when Bounds hit, people like, you're gonna do Bounce,
Speaker 1: I'm like no, because that I was already rapping. So yeah,
Speaker 1: So I didn't really I didn't take to it. I
Speaker 1: didn't begin to appreciate Bounce until later on because it
Speaker 1: was like, yo, this is a reflective of of our city.
Speaker 1: But initially I was like, nah, you ain't never seen
Speaker 1: me bounce. Man, Man, I'm gone, you don't want to
Speaker 1: see me bounce right with? Fuck no, I was gonna
Speaker 1: give you somebody looking with that letting dary. Man, imagine
Speaker 1: me bouncing is gonna go by. That's not gonna be.
Speaker 1: Then I'm gonna have to get on the Houston beating
Speaker 1: stuff freestyle. Okay, man. So the new album is, yeah,
Speaker 1: it should be early two two. It's gonna feature a
Speaker 1: lot of people. I mean not a lot of people.
Speaker 1: It's gonna feature select people. And uh, I think it's
Speaker 1: gonna be reflecting the maturity because I had I wrote
Speaker 1: a lot of songs when I was inconcrated and a
Speaker 1: lot of people. You know what. Nothing to cut you off,
Speaker 1: But I'll make some beach for you. Bro, man, I
Speaker 1: would be do not believe that. I couldn't be. He's
Speaker 1: been motherfucking telling me that same ship, serious kind of ship.
Speaker 1: But I'll make you some beats now. I played the
Speaker 1: base in the in the keyboard keyboard too. I think
Speaker 1: I saw you before because you don't remember that, y'all
Speaker 1: don't remember this. But I think I opened up for
Speaker 1: I opened up at the concert you was in at
Speaker 1: the Singer and like ninety five or ninety six in
Speaker 1: the wall and it was you big Mike keep Murray
Speaker 1: and I don't remember none of that ship yeah, and
Speaker 1: it was painting it, but was in it the rabbit
Speaker 1: how they do vision at the time. I talked to
Speaker 1: one of them the other day in jail no, they
Speaker 1: could they can communicate with like See murder, Yeah, the
Speaker 1: same dome. We we was in the same dome. And
Speaker 1: and See was my partner who you know, we was.
Speaker 1: Me and See have been having a connection, man, since
Speaker 1: I met him, and so he was one of the
Speaker 1: few people that I can go vent to to because
Speaker 1: he could relate. We win damn that identical situation. And
Speaker 1: then you know, we reminisced together about times, you know,
Speaker 1: before we got locked up, so we kind of kept
Speaker 1: each other, uh focus, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: I just I just talked to him about it was
Speaker 1: about two days ago. I talked to him, and I
Speaker 1: always was was was weird, man, as I always felt
Speaker 1: bad for him because his situation, wation was more serious
Speaker 1: than mine, like he's we got identical crimes. But I
Speaker 1: was convicted of manslaughter. He was convicted of murder, which
Speaker 1: means he got a life sentence without parole. So I
Speaker 1: always was, you know, a part of me and honestly,
Speaker 1: this is this is from the heart, a part of
Speaker 1: me felt. Man. I almost felt guilty for leaving him
Speaker 1: when I left, if that makes sense. I kind of
Speaker 1: just was I felt like I was leaving something behind.
Speaker 1: Because this is the home man, and you know, and
Speaker 1: and and he's a he's such a loyal and genuine
Speaker 1: dude that you know once once I made it, you know,
Speaker 1: I got on parole. He just every time he talked
Speaker 1: to me, he almost like tried to remind me that
Speaker 1: he okay because he don't want me to worry. Like
Speaker 1: he'd be like, man, I'm good. But he always up
Speaker 1: in good spirits. And I know him. I know sometimes
Speaker 1: things don't always be all good, but he's never gone up. Uh.
Speaker 1: He never want the people he loved to stress a
Speaker 1: worry about him. So he always like, man, you're good, man,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that see y'all. Bro, you know stuff
Speaker 1: like that. Where's the last time you spoke to crazy Crazy?
Speaker 1: I actually so crazy on? He was with us the
Speaker 1: other day that. Yeah, he was with us the other day. Yes,
Speaker 1: last night he was on stage last night. Nice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but man, we thank you for coming and I with us.
Speaker 1: Man appreciate Yeah, we really do. Man, it's good to
Speaker 1: see you. Man. How can people get in contact with
Speaker 1: you though? That's important? Um through Instagram? Wait, y'all, the people,
Speaker 1: not not us. We're gonna get a contact. Got your
Speaker 1: phone number I'm talking about. I'm talking about I is
Speaker 1: Mac Phipps Official UM at gmail dot com. Oh no,
Speaker 1: that's the no, that's that's not it. Macphilps Official is Instagram. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: my bad, Mac, Macphilps Official. Listen, we all know. For
Speaker 1: the record, what do people watching For the record, I
Speaker 1: don't know nothing about technology. I'm still figuring all of
Speaker 1: this stuff out. Do you have an email address yet? Email?
Speaker 1: You have a business email? Okay? So okay, So Instagram.
Speaker 1: If y'all want to get in touch with Mac, reach
Speaker 1: out to him on Instagram, Instagram Family, Mac Phipps Official,
Speaker 1: Mac Phipps Official, that's the instagram on Instagram. I'm looking
Speaker 1: at my my people. They're looking at me like I
Speaker 1: don't know if I said something right. Man, one more time, man,
Speaker 1: for for your support group than you. It's beautiful, man,
Speaker 1: it's beautiful. And to see that you got your same
Speaker 1: business partner after all that time, Russell, you know, still
Speaker 1: right that rideing with you, man, That's that's beautiful to see.
Speaker 1: There's something that you just rarely see in life, period.
Speaker 1: But for somebody to go to the penitentiary and set
Speaker 1: out for twenty years and come back and the whole
Speaker 1: time his people was riding with him, and then he
Speaker 1: get get out and then continuing the ride. That's a
Speaker 1: beautiful thing, man. Should you should try to package that
Speaker 1: and sell it because we've got a lot of fake
Speaker 1: as people out here, man, and they don't know what
Speaker 1: it's like. They don't know even the meaning of loyalty.
Speaker 1: They have no idea. Yeah, right, we know, man. Rusban
Speaker 1: Rocking says what sorry eight nw us though. Yeah, Russ
Speaker 1: was the bullet breaker. The bullet huh, he was gonna
Speaker 1: break that was the bullet like it. I like it
Speaker 1: right man. Well, I appreciate you for coming out. Thank
Speaker 1: you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Mac uh Yeah, the
Speaker 1: sole survivor, true survivor. Man, I got to give it up,
Speaker 1: give it up and give it up Forrad and Willie,
Speaker 1: give it up for them, to give it up for us.
Speaker 1: This is dope. This episode was produced by a King
Speaker 1: and brought to you by The Black Effect Podcast Network
Speaker 1: and I Heart Radio.