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Speaker 1: I am the Amla. I've been very open about the

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Speaker 1: fact that I was not always good at making my

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Speaker 1: relationships work. I have been divorced three times, twice from

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Speaker 1: the same person. In other words, I have seen a

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Speaker 1: lot and failed a lot in my relationships. So I

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Speaker 1: am here to share with you what I learned along

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Speaker 1: the way because I did take copious note. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Our Spot a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership

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Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio. So very often in relationships, we

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Speaker 1: want to do the right thing, even when we know

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Speaker 1: the right thing may be the wrong thing, because see,

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Speaker 1: the right thing at the wrong time is still the

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Speaker 1: wrong thing, and the right thing at the wrong way

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Speaker 1: is still the wrong thing. So so very often we

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Speaker 1: get caught up in our commitment to the person and

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Speaker 1: we lose sight of our commitment to ourselves. My first

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Speaker 1: caller is a really great example of how to be

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Speaker 1: honest with yourself and to choose you in a relationship.

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Speaker 1: Let's say, hello, good afternoon, beloved, Welcome to the our Spot,

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Speaker 1: And what is the challenge, issue, question, dilemma that you

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Speaker 1: are bringing to the spot today. Hi, I grew up

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Speaker 1: in a Christian home and I was taught the importance

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Speaker 1: of love and forgiveness. But even with those lessons, I

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Speaker 1: struggle to understand, like what forgiveness really means, Because when

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Speaker 1: you experience hurt, it stays with you, and I see

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Speaker 1: families move forward, but when it comes to your significant others,

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Speaker 1: that hurts used as a weapon, and it's so much

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Speaker 1: easier to walk away. Because my husband I we've been

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Speaker 1: together for thirty years and Mary for and we've had

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Speaker 1: a lot of ups and downs, and our downs nearly

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Speaker 1: broke us. And he's taking care of me through a

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Speaker 1: cancer diagnosis and three major surgeries. And he has always

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Speaker 1: been supportive and has never been physically or verbally disrespectful

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Speaker 1: in any anyway. But every time we have one little dispute,

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Speaker 1: I'm yielding his past mistakes over him like a weapon,

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Speaker 1: and I feel the pain and the separation it causes.

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Speaker 1: But yet for me, true forgiveness things impossible, and I

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Speaker 1: don't want that for us. I just don't know how

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Speaker 1: to hear what's been broken. M Let me see if

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Speaker 1: I got this. I have to kind of read between

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Speaker 1: the lines, because it's clear to me that you have

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Speaker 1: a narrative running in your mind to justify how you

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Speaker 1: feel okay, because I heard you say I was raised

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Speaker 1: in the Christian home. I was taught love and forgiveness.

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Speaker 1: But why is it hard to forge of the people

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Speaker 1: you love the most? Did I hear you say that

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Speaker 1: it seems like it's easier to forget family. Um, but

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Speaker 1: when it comes to your spouse, like my my husband is,

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Speaker 1: it's like I hold on to everything and one of

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Speaker 1: the thing and it's like everything that I feel like

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Speaker 1: I've experienced just comes up. Mhmm. Okay, So I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: take a risk here, Please forgive me if I'm wrong. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to assume that there may have been some

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Speaker 1: infidelity involved in your marriage. Is that accurate? I mean

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Speaker 1: they's it's a yes. I mean my my my husband,

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Speaker 1: I reach dealt with a lot of issues with his

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Speaker 1: family being so involved in our marriage. And when his

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Speaker 1: and it was mostly his mom, And when his mom passed,

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Speaker 1: he got really close to someone at work, and while

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Speaker 1: it may not have been a physical relationship, I felt

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Speaker 1: like his relationship cross the line from me and it

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Speaker 1: really caused distance between us and I don't know how

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Speaker 1: to heal that. Okay, Okay, So there was an emotional betrayal. Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, and you haven't forgiven your husband okay, well again,

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Speaker 1: because you have this narrative running in your heads. You're

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Speaker 1: trying to justify a your feelings and be what you

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Speaker 1: need to do about them. Right. So, if you had

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Speaker 1: to give me a list, I need to forgive my

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Speaker 1: husband for what not putting me before his mom? Okay,

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Speaker 1: choosing his mother before you. So you were in a

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Speaker 1: threesome exactly, Okay, good, that's good. Choosing his mother over me,

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Speaker 1: which is a violation of the tenant. You know that

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Speaker 1: you let go of your father and your mother cleave

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Speaker 1: to your wife, but that didn't happen, okay. And what else?

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Speaker 1: And for leaning on someone else when his mom passed

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Speaker 1: and loved me, leaning on another woman? Exactly? Is there

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Speaker 1: anything else that's it? Okay? So here's the question I

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Speaker 1: would ask you, why do you tell yourself your husband

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Speaker 1: chose his mother over you? What is your internal dialogue

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Speaker 1: about that my husband chose his mother over me? Because

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of situations where I would make

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Speaker 1: a decision and he would uh allow his mother to

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Speaker 1: make a different decision for our lives. And when we

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Speaker 1: first met, I mean we had we had never argued,

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Speaker 1: and our very first argument, and this was you ys later,

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Speaker 1: was when we hear that our first daughter. It was

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Speaker 1: something simple as me not wanting how to have a

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Speaker 1: pacifier and his mom deciding that she should have five

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Speaker 1: different ones in different colors and different styles because she

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Speaker 1: thinks a child should have a pacifier. It was it

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Speaker 1: was something as simple as that that I felt was

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Speaker 1: a portrayal because here we are too, we're having our

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Speaker 1: first child, and you're allowing your mother to make decisions

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Speaker 1: for us, okay, And this it's just it got worse

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Speaker 1: over the years, I mean so much. So like I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm in the hospital after having all second child, and

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Speaker 1: I got really sick, and my child went home. We

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Speaker 1: went home and I got admitted back into the hospital,

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Speaker 1: and my mother in law decided she would go stay

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Speaker 1: at my house to take care of my other daughters.

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Speaker 1: And I called it to speak to my husband and

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Speaker 1: she's telling me I can't speak to because I was

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Speaker 1: and he he wasn't allowing him to come see me,

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Speaker 1: and so he did not. It was a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. Okay, I take a breath, beloved. I

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Speaker 1: want you to take a breath, because I want you

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Speaker 1: to hear me. I want you to know that I

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Speaker 1: heard you, but I want you to hear me. Are

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Speaker 1: you aware that you did not answer the question that

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Speaker 1: I asked you? Are you aware of that? I'm not aware, okay,

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Speaker 1: because you've got a narrative that's running in your head.

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Speaker 1: You've got a narrative about this running in your head,

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Speaker 1: and that is probably what's making the forgiveness challenging for you.

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Speaker 1: So here is the question that I am presenting. Here's

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Speaker 1: the inquiry I want us to make with curiosity and

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Speaker 1: an openness. Here's the inquiry. What do you tell yourself

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Speaker 1: is the reason your husband chose his mother over you?

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Speaker 1: Mm hm. Take a breath and just repeat the whole statement.

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Speaker 1: My husband chose his mother over me because and then

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Speaker 1: say whatever comes out, my husband chose his mother over

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Speaker 1: me because I wasn't enough. Ah, thank you. Take a breath,

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Speaker 1: Take a breath. Where do you feel that in your

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Speaker 1: body it might chuck? Yeah, right in your heart. Take

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Speaker 1: an inhale and push your belly out, push, push, push,

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Speaker 1: push your belly out, and then let it go. My

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Speaker 1: husband chose his mother over me because my husband chose

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Speaker 1: his mother over me because he wasn't taught how the love. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so beloved. The narrative, the story, the script that you

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Speaker 1: have running in your head is that my husband couldn't

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Speaker 1: love me because he wasn't taught how to love. My

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Speaker 1: husband couldn't love me, or he chose his mother over

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Speaker 1: me because I'm not enough and I'm not good enough.

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Speaker 1: So let's go one level down the one one more

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Speaker 1: level deeper. Okay, and we'll do that right after the break.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the art spot. Now let's get back

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Speaker 1: into the conversation. Now. I want to offer you something.

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Speaker 1: If it doesn't fit, don't wear it, don't take it on, okay.

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Speaker 1: But if it does, say that would be accurate. Okay.

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Speaker 1: If it doesn't fit, that's okay. But I want to

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Speaker 1: offer you something so that we can get to the

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Speaker 1: root in the core. All right, m M. My husband

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Speaker 1: chose his mother over me because I wasn't good enough.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm does that fit for you? Breathe? All you

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Speaker 1: have to say is that would be accurate or not?

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Speaker 1: That would be okay? Go ahead, take a breath. Who

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Speaker 1: did your father choose over you? Ah? The streets? Mm hmmm,

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Speaker 1: whoa take a breath? Honestly, I might might say about

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Speaker 1: this mm hmm. So the man you loved and wanted

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Speaker 1: and yearned for I didn't know how to love you.

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Speaker 1: Oh maybe he wasn't taught to love and chose the

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Speaker 1: streets over you. Yeah. So based on that narrative, it's

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Speaker 1: absolutely natural that you would choose a man and be

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Speaker 1: with a man. Doesn't make him bad, doesn't make him wrong,

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Speaker 1: that would choose something or someone over you, because I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of reasons, most of them in your narrative.

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Speaker 1: So the reason that you're having difficulty forgiving your husband,

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Speaker 1: because that's what this is all about, is that you're

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Speaker 1: forgiving the wrong person for the wrong thing, and you're

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Speaker 1: forgiving behaviors as opposed to forgiving thoughts and judgments. So

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Speaker 1: the first thing that you have to forgive is your mind.

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Speaker 1: Does that make sense to you? It does? It's yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know who said it had to be easy? Heck nobody.

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Speaker 1: That's not a guarantee. So I want to give you

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Speaker 1: this theory to contemplate. Okay, it's not that your husband

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Speaker 1: chose his mother or another woman over you. It's that

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Speaker 1: you had a narrative running in your consciousness that he

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Speaker 1: wasn't taught out of love, and he couldn't love you

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Speaker 1: because you weren't enough and you weren't good enough, and

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Speaker 1: so life, the universe just showed you what your story

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Speaker 1: looks like. This is hard work, This is deep, deep,

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Speaker 1: deep work, because the part of you that really needs

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Speaker 1: to do the forgiveness is probably about three to five

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Speaker 1: years old. So you, as an adult woman, now I

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Speaker 1: have to give yourself permission to do the work for

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Speaker 1: that three or five year old. And they're thinking, isn't

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Speaker 1: like you're thinking, See, you had that narrative running. I

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Speaker 1: was raised in Christian household and I was told about

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Speaker 1: love well at three and five year old. They don't

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Speaker 1: know nothing about that, right. They just know they hurt,

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Speaker 1: they feel alone. Daddy ain't here, I'm not enough, I'm

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Speaker 1: not good enough. They don't know how to love me.

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Speaker 1: He I want him to. He don't know out because

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Speaker 1: all women marry their fathers who he was, who they

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Speaker 1: wanted him to be, or they go for the exact

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Speaker 1: opposite of their father and end up with their father.

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Speaker 1: It's just the way it works. I don't care how

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Speaker 1: long it takes you. I want you to do that

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Speaker 1: work because this is about forgiving what you believe. It's

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Speaker 1: about forgiving your thinking, it's about forgiving your judgments. It's

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Speaker 1: about forgiving your mom, your dad. And then when you

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Speaker 1: do all of that and forgive yourself, then you can

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Speaker 1: forgive your husband. And by the time you get there,

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Speaker 1: you realize there's really nothing to forgive him for, because

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Speaker 1: all he did was live out the narrative that you

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Speaker 1: have running in your mind. Do you love him and true? Okay,

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Speaker 1: We'll let the love open the way for you to

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Speaker 1: do your inner work. I most definitely, Bill, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. Okay, okay about take care. I always find

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Speaker 1: it so amazing how we as human beings want to

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Speaker 1: diagnosed stock owned issues. And as I've said before, self

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Speaker 1: diagnosis is misdiagnosis because more often than not, the part

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Speaker 1: of our brain, the part of our mind that wants

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Speaker 1: to be healed, is the same part of our mind,

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Speaker 1: the part of our brain that led us into the brokenness.

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Speaker 1: When you hit an issue and you've been twisting it,

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Speaker 1: turning it, chewing on it, nibbling on and beating it

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Speaker 1: up for a long time and nothing is shifting or changing,

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Speaker 1: get some help, get an objective third party, because self

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Speaker 1: diagnosis is usually misdiagnosis, and you will be working on

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Speaker 1: the wrong problem forever. My next caller is also learning

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Speaker 1: a lesson about honesty because it seems she may be

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Speaker 1: in a little nio about the state of her relationship.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Welcome back now. My next caller

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Speaker 1: was accused of using her partner just for the money.

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Speaker 1: But there's much more to unpack here. Good afternoon, beloved,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the our spot. How are you? I'm doing well? Good?

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Speaker 1: How can I support you today? Um? I was kindly

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Speaker 1: in reference to you know, my relationship that I am

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Speaker 1: in with my girlfriend that says that I am selfish

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Speaker 1: and I kind of use her for her money. That's

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Speaker 1: what she says about me. But I don't feel that

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Speaker 1: that's true or even remotely like the truth about who

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Speaker 1: I am. So why is she saying that? Um? Right now, financially,

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Speaker 1: I don't know heavy like I used to, and when

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Speaker 1: we go out to places, she do um pay for things.

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Speaker 1: But it's Marcia of death, like the road that she

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Speaker 1: kind of took on in my relationship, like without me

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Speaker 1: and having to ask, like she was always the one

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Speaker 1: that was doing it and so she was just saying

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Speaker 1: that I was selfish and just like I have this

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Speaker 1: expectation of her doing things without her even having asked.

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Speaker 1: And I was just like, but I don't ask you

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Speaker 1: to do anything like this is something that you do

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Speaker 1: without me even having to ask. She would tell you, like,

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Speaker 1: you literally just do it on your own. And she

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Speaker 1: was like pretty much just telling me, um that I

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Speaker 1: don't even try to, like, you know, say no or whatever,

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Speaker 1: or if you do go out like I pretty much

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Speaker 1: just get whatever I want. I'm like, you tells me too,

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Speaker 1: So I don't. I don't know. Wait a minute, do

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Speaker 1: you share a household together or you live separately? We

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Speaker 1: used to live together, but after she cheated on me,

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Speaker 1: I tell her she had to leave. Okay, so y'all

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Speaker 1: got all kinds of stuff going on. Yeah, okay, So

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Speaker 1: you know, if somebody shares with you their experience of you,

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Speaker 1: that's all she's doing. She experiences you as being selfish. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's all she's saying. Now, she's saying you are selfish,

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Speaker 1: which may not be true, but your way of being

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Speaker 1: she experiences as selfish. Okay, have you asked her? What

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Speaker 1: are you asking me to do? So that you know

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Speaker 1: I'm not just using you for your money? What are

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Speaker 1: you asking me to do? Have you asked her that? No,

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Speaker 1: I haven't. I think I asked her in another way,

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Speaker 1: but not exactly that way, but because I know she

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Speaker 1: wanted to tell me that. It's like I come off

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Speaker 1: like I'm entitled. I just still ask for the things

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Speaker 1: that I want. Steel like she feels like because she

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Speaker 1: paid for things, it's certain things I supposed to, well,

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Speaker 1: I gotta do it, and I'm just like that takes

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Speaker 1: away my free liberit of wanting to do things that

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Speaker 1: I don't want to do. So it's it's it's constantly

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Speaker 1: or like to fight the queen is So let me

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Speaker 1: ask you a question. What are you acting like you

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Speaker 1: don't know about this relationship with this person? Um? Really sically,

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Speaker 1: I'm acting like I don't know that that we're not

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Speaker 1: on the same page. Oh you think how cheated on

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Speaker 1: me multiple times and you just consert seem like you're

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Speaker 1: keeping work. So are you acting like you don't know?

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Speaker 1: This is not gonna get any better? Yeah, by not

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Speaker 1: walking away when I want to. But see, here's it.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing. When we're in relationship with somebody, particularly intimate, loving,

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Speaker 1: relationship where we're exchanging you know, breath, and we're exchanging

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Speaker 1: bodily fluids, and we're exchanging heart space intimate space together.

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Speaker 1: We act like the other person doesn't know our most

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Speaker 1: private intimate thoughts. And if you are an intimate contact

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Speaker 1: or relationship with the person, there's certain things you don't

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Speaker 1: have to say. They just know. So she knows a

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Speaker 1: that you probably haven't forgiven her all the way for

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Speaker 1: the cheating. She knows because I know it and I

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Speaker 1: don't even know you, but the fact that you mentioned

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Speaker 1: it three times tells me that it's still present in

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Speaker 1: your mind. Okay, you really haven't forgiven her. And because

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Speaker 1: you haven't forgiven her, oh, you're gonna make her pay.

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Speaker 1: She's gonna pay for treating you that way, she's gonna

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Speaker 1: pay for betraying you. She gonna pay for it. And

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Speaker 1: the way she experiences that is she pays with the money,

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Speaker 1: and she expects you to have a certain response that

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Speaker 1: you don't have because you're making her pay. You make

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Speaker 1: can her pay for what she did? Now that may

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Speaker 1: not be forefront in your consciousness, but that's what's going on,

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Speaker 1: and she can feel it, and she can also feel

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Speaker 1: that the way she can keep you is by buying

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Speaker 1: you things and giving you things. Yeah, oh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how you was looking at it. I don't,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess how. I was always thinking

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Speaker 1: like maybe I would get over it and then things

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Speaker 1: would go back to you know how it was, But

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Speaker 1: and then back goes my mind always because like I

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Speaker 1: feel like she probably doing something pills, but there really

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Speaker 1: wasn't my attention. I do want to be over it,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know if I if I can while

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Speaker 1: we're still together. She betrayed your trust, she violated her commitment.

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Speaker 1: Why are you still in it? I tried to get

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Speaker 1: out of it, we broke up, but she was heading

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Speaker 1: me on and trying to get me back and like

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Speaker 1: things were going to change, like she cheated on me,

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Speaker 1: and I think two days later she asked me to

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Speaker 1: marry her, and I was just like, you told me

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Speaker 1: you didn't even want to get married, Like you're manipulating

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Speaker 1: me to try to get back with me by like

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Speaker 1: disrespecting me to think that you can cheat on me

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Speaker 1: and then turn around and ask me to marry you,

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Speaker 1: like I suppose say yeah, but you're not a victim

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Speaker 1: here you're not a victim. You are a willing participant.

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Speaker 1: Because here is the way to end the relationship. I

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Speaker 1: want me, want me tell you how? Yes? Now? By yeah, by,

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Speaker 1: and listen. I'm not advocating that you end your relationship.

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Speaker 1: I'm promising you that I'm not. That's not what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: But if you're gonna be in it, you've got to

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Speaker 1: tell the truth about it. I haven't forgiven you, and

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Speaker 1: I am making you pack. And the way you're gonna

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Speaker 1: pay is you're gonna buy me what I want. And

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Speaker 1: you're dealing with the fact that she cheated. But it's

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Speaker 1: not just that she cheated and meaning she was intimate

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Speaker 1: with someone else. She betrayed your trust. She broke her agreement,

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Speaker 1: her commitment with you. And I'm assuming that Joe had

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Speaker 1: a commitment that this was going to be a monogamous relationship.

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Speaker 1: So that says that this is a person who may

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Speaker 1: not have the level of integrity that is important to you.

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Speaker 1: Have you cheated on her, okay, So why do you

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Speaker 1: want to be in relationship with a person who doesn't

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Speaker 1: have integrity the same level of integrity that you have.

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Speaker 1: You don't cheat, she don't cheat, and if she cheats,

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Speaker 1: you're out because you compromise your integrity to stay with

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Speaker 1: somebody who doesn't have integrity. You're not safe with her.

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Speaker 1: You're not safe with her because you don't know when

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Speaker 1: she's gonna do it again. So you're always on pins

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Speaker 1: and needles wondering. That's that's a lot of work. That's

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Speaker 1: a lot of work. Maybe this relationship has lived out

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Speaker 1: its usefulness. Maybe it has. Yeah, I don't know. But

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Speaker 1: that's the call that you have to make, yeh. And

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Speaker 1: I know it's hard, and you're not a victim. She

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Speaker 1: can call you all she wants, she can come on

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Speaker 1: your door with roses, and all you have to do

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Speaker 1: is say bye if you want to. But the need

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Speaker 1: or the desire to be in a wholesome, healthy, loving,

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Speaker 1: intimate relationship where you feel safe, where you can be

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Speaker 1: in integrity, where your trust is valued and honored, that's

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Speaker 1: gonna require you to make some choices for yourself. And

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Speaker 1: it sounds like you're allowing her to make all the choices. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, I have some choices to make. I didn't

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Speaker 1: do anything wrong, and I was justified because I didn't

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Speaker 1: cheat on you. I didn't do anything wrong. You cheat.

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Speaker 1: You did that. No steel selfish on my part you

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Speaker 1: to allow these things to go on, even though I

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Speaker 1: know that I want to be Yeah, and you don't

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Speaker 1: want to spend another what three years you've been in

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Speaker 1: this relationship looking over your shoulder, wondering if the person

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Speaker 1: that you're committed to is going to violate your trust.

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Speaker 1: So prepare yourself, think about these things, work with these things,

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Speaker 1: and when you're ready, have the conversation with her. You

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Speaker 1: know what, what we're doing to each other, it's not

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Speaker 1: fair to either one of us. I haven't forgiven you.

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Speaker 1: I am punishing you, and the way I punish you

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Speaker 1: it is through your money. Now, I didn't realize that

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Speaker 1: with selfish or whatever your conversation is going to be.

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Speaker 1: I can't give you the words for it. But have

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Speaker 1: it when you're ready. If you try to have it

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Speaker 1: before you're ready, she's gonna talk you out of it

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Speaker 1: because one of the hardest things to do is to

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Speaker 1: let go. Yeah, but it can be done. Call me

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Speaker 1: back in six weeks and let me know how you're doing.

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Speaker 1: My selfish self I let my girlfriend go or we

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Speaker 1: figured it out or whatever it is. Okay, okay, alright,

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Speaker 1: my Darling, thank you for calling. They are smiling. It

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Speaker 1: is absolutely amazing to me the lengths that people will

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Speaker 1: go to deny the truth that's right in front of

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Speaker 1: their face. Sometimes it's because the decision we're facing is

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Speaker 1: a hard one, or maybe we just don't want to

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Speaker 1: accept that we've made a mistake in the first place,

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Speaker 1: or maybe we don't want to lose something familiar, something

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Speaker 1: that is comfortable. But whatever the reason, if you are

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Speaker 1: identifying an issue, chances are that there's an issue even

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Speaker 1: deeper than the one you see, and maybe one that's

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Speaker 1: even deeper than that one. But to make any type

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Speaker 1: of real change, you must be able to face the truth.

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Speaker 1: Truth will correct all errors. In my mind, that means

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Speaker 1: be honest with yourself about how you are acting in

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Speaker 1: the relationship, and then take responsibility for choosing you even

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Speaker 1: if things go wrong. I am I am LA, and

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Speaker 1: I thank you for listening to the our Spot. Be

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Speaker 1: sure to follow me on social media for the calling

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Speaker 1: times and how you can speak to me. Live right

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Speaker 1: here on the our Spot to share your relationship challenges, problems, issues,

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Speaker 1: dilemmas and victories. Remember, until we meet again, stay in

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Speaker 1: peace and not pieces. The our Spot is a production

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Speaker 1: of Shondaland Audio in partnership with I heart Radio. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the I heart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.