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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Nolan.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Alexis code named Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly,

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Speaker 3: you are you. You are here. That makes this the

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Speaker 3: stuff they don't want you to know. It is the

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Speaker 3: top of the week as we hurd ale headlong into

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Speaker 3: a terrible crime against humanity known as Summer in Atlanta.

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Speaker 3: We we've got some stories that we're totally not gonna

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Speaker 3: get to. We're gonna you know, there was a study

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Speaker 3: that found microplastics are in every single human testicle. So

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Speaker 3: that's great.

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Speaker 4: You love to hear it, guys, hear it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there was an anomaly as it's phrase discovered beneath

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Speaker 3: it's called the Egyptian Pyramids, but really they're talking about

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Speaker 3: the graveyard that's part of the larger compound. It may

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Speaker 3: be the resting place of the pharaoh Kufu. No doubt

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Speaker 3: study emerging due to our recent republishing of famous lost tombs.

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Speaker 3: I'm kidding. The former president of Iran and several other

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Speaker 3: luminaries died in a helicopter crash. But we have more

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Speaker 3: stories to get to. There's controversy about baby reindeer. There

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Speaker 3: is a revenge story that we're going to learn about

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Speaker 3: with several other updates. We may add more along the way,

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Speaker 3: but before we do anything, we might need to talk

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Speaker 3: about intelligence, but not the artificial and not the human kind.

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Speaker 3: And we're off to the races folks here here, we'd

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Speaker 3: like to start with a brief clip from a conversation

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Speaker 3: with investors that took place in New York. This is

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Speaker 3: called the Salt Eye Connections Conference.

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Speaker 2: Here's the million dollar question.

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Speaker 4: Do you believe that a higher form of non human

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Speaker 4: intelligence has visited this planet?

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Speaker 5: Right? So, non human intelligence exists. Non human intelligence has

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Speaker 5: been interacting with humanity. This interaction is not new, and

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Speaker 5: it's been ongoing, and they're unelected people in the government

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Speaker 5: that are.

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Speaker 4: Aware of that.

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Speaker 3: And we'll stop at their initial reactions before we continue.

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Speaker 3: Pretty confident.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he just goes down and says it just like

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Speaker 2: it's fact. Just this is what it is, guys.

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Speaker 3: Pretty explicit, not a whiff of a comp in that statement.

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Speaker 3: This is where we introduce you to a gentleman named

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Speaker 3: Carl Nell, who I am currently attempting to befriend on LinkedIn.

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Speaker 3: Not too proud to say it, but this is something

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Speaker 3: that we heard a lot about very recently. This conference

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Speaker 3: occurred in May of twenty twenty four, and that that

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Speaker 3: single statement non human intelligence, the idea that it's an

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Speaker 3: ongoing interaction with humanity, that there is some sort of

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Speaker 3: deep state, likely a faction of intelligence or international affairs,

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Speaker 3: that is aware of this, and they decided to keep

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Speaker 3: it all secret. What why?

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Speaker 2: How?

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Speaker 3: Huh?

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Speaker 4: I mean, given the rhetoric around in the sort of

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Speaker 4: like types and I guess quality of individual I mean,

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Speaker 4: maybe qualities the wrong words in terms of like their positions,

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Speaker 4: you know, foreign positions and government who are saying similar stuff.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't really surprise me. I don't really know what

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Speaker 4: to what to call it, or like what we're talking

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Speaker 4: about here exactly in terms of like what this type

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Speaker 4: of life looks like, what it might be, what they

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Speaker 4: might be seeking, what kind of encounters have been had,

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Speaker 4: or what evidence might exist. But I do feel like

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Speaker 4: it's starting to feel like a foregone conclusion a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And we know in our previous investigations on the

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Speaker 3: jam yesterday, jam tomorrow, never jam today situation of UAP

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Speaker 3: or UFO disclosure, we know that a lot of people

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Speaker 3: have come forward in recent years, some career government employees,

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Speaker 3: some pilots which I guess is also a career government employee.

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Speaker 3: But you know military employees, and they often are a

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Speaker 3: little bit less explicit in their statements. Right, they're speaking

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Speaker 3: to Congress like Grush does, and they're saying, Hey, I

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Speaker 3: saw this information. I tried to get it out through

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Speaker 3: the appropriate chain of command and process, and because I

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Speaker 3: could not, I was ethically bound to be a whistleblower.

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Speaker 3: But I will be careful to only say the things

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Speaker 3: that I know and I can prove, right. I will

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Speaker 3: not make hyperbolic conclusions or assumptions, et cetera. This guy,

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Speaker 3: just that sound white alone absolutely rocked the world of

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Speaker 3: UAP study. And he didn't in that statement use the

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Speaker 3: word UAP. So the first thing we want to do

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Speaker 3: is learn about retired Colonel Nell's biography. All Right, this

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Speaker 3: dude has his bona fides, he his cv is legit

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Speaker 3: looked into it verified it through a couple of different sources.

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Speaker 3: In addition to being an ivy LEA graduate, he studied

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Speaker 3: at the War College. He's worked with multiple Fortune five

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Speaker 3: hundred firms like Bell Telephone, lots of defense industry stuff,

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Speaker 3: Lockheed Martin and so on. He has also been he's

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Speaker 3: been with Jaysock. He had was a colonel. As we said,

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Speaker 3: his military career culminated as the Army director supporting the

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Speaker 3: Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Task Force. And very important to note

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Speaker 3: this is not, from my understanding, this is not a

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Speaker 3: job he actively sought out. This is a job he

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Speaker 3: was assigned to do, and so he just had to

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Speaker 3: He had to do his job. And it's very odd

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Speaker 3: for someone of this reputational caliber to go out and

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Speaker 3: say something like this so explicitly, especially when we know

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Speaker 3: that given the sensitivity around clearances, he might have had

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Speaker 3: to have someone coside him saying that.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, unless he was going on orders, because

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Speaker 2: he had to say it because it's part of a

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Speaker 2: bigger thing.

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Speaker 4: Man. Well, I like to throw people a bone or

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Speaker 4: something or throw off because you know they're up there

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Speaker 4: planning Project Bluebeam.

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Speaker 2: Come on, guys, And.

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Speaker 3: Also what is a non human intelligence. Technically a dolphin

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Speaker 3: is a non human intelligence. Technically a helephant or an

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Speaker 3: octopus is a non human intelligence.

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Speaker 4: I mean, bro, if we're going by the Douglas Adams

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Speaker 4: model of the universe, the dolphins are the most important thing,

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Speaker 4: you know, They're the center of it all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, don't break up with the dolphins. We need you.

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Speaker 3: We also looked into I mean, like I said, the

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Speaker 3: UFO community was set a buzz by this. The idea

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Speaker 3: everybody is assuming that non human intelligence doesn't mean just

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Speaker 3: like a terrestrial order of animal, right, like an elephant,

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Speaker 3: an octopus, a corvid. Sorry for all the corvids in

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Speaker 3: the audience, I forgot to mention you all. It means

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Speaker 3: that there is something that is in some way, whether

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Speaker 3: technologically or cognitively, in some way superior to what we

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Speaker 3: think of as human intelligence. And the idea that it's

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Speaker 3: been around for a very long time is naturally going

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Speaker 3: to set some of the more skeptical of us into

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Speaker 3: immediate opposition. Right, How would a civilization of billions of

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Speaker 3: people that can't reach a good decision when there's just

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Speaker 3: twelve of them?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: How would a species that can't for the life of it,

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Speaker 3: agree on what kind of pizza to order, agree to

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Speaker 3: keep a secret of this magnitude for this amount of time.

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Speaker 3: That's where the context comes in, because some of the

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Speaker 3: more skeptical in the audience tonight will be saying, well, Ben,

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Speaker 3: why aren't you telling us about what the Salt Conference is.

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Speaker 3: The Salt Conference is not a legal proceeding. It is

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Speaker 3: not a congressional hearing. It is a I'm going to

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Speaker 3: read from their website, it is a quote curated networking

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Speaker 3: event for asset allocators and investment managers. You're talking to

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Speaker 3: the money when you talk at the Salt Conference.

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Speaker 2: It reminds me of the contact in the desert thing

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Speaker 2: we were talking about internally going to that's happening, I

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Speaker 2: think this week, right as this episode comes out, but

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Speaker 2: about money instead of UFOs. That's weird.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very I don't want to quite say off putting.

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Speaker 3: But we do need to know further context too, because

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Speaker 3: this is not the first time by far that this individual,

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Speaker 3: this retired kernel and specific has spoken on this subject.

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Speaker 3: Five months ago, back in twenty twenty three, Nell was

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Speaker 3: calling for full disclosure and even someone called this bold

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Speaker 3: or ambitious. He even projected an ultimate timeline for full disclosure.

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Speaker 3: He said it will occur on October first, twenty thirty,

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Speaker 3: and he said it might fall behind, But this is

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Speaker 3: what I think would be the best possible scenario. I

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Speaker 3: still like, it escapes me here. Maybe we'll have him

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Speaker 3: on the show later, but it escapes me that the colonel.

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Speaker 3: Like why the colonel would make such an explicit statement

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Speaker 3: if he did not fundamentally feel that statement was accurate.

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Speaker 3: The accusation you'll always get in these kind of environments

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Speaker 3: of conversation is the idea that, oh, this guy's just

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Speaker 3: trying to sell a book, right, or oh, this guy

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Speaker 3: is attempting to pull a grift. But again, going back

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Speaker 3: to twenty twenty three and beyond, you can see his involvement.

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Speaker 3: You can see his military and private industry career. You

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Speaker 3: can see things like the Irish Star, which shout out

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Speaker 3: to the journalist Alana Loftus wrote a great article about this.

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Speaker 3: The Debrief has him mentioned in a pretty comprehensive investigative

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Speaker 3: report about whether or not these guys are legit. So,

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Speaker 3: with all this in mind, ask you, fellow conspiracy realist, everybody,

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Speaker 3: maybe maybe with a question mark, is it a maybe.

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Speaker 4: That's a maybe from me, Doug, I'll give you a maybe.

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Speaker 3: No, right, well maybe that way, you know what, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna upgrade it to a soft yes.

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Speaker 2: Soft, Yes, I'm going hard.

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Speaker 3: Maybe that was the hard maybe in soft. Yes. Those

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Speaker 3: are both post rock bands from our pal Paul Decan.

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Speaker 4: Not bad.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a concept double album. So this is

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Speaker 3: fascinating still because we have to wonder what is going

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Speaker 3: on right the level of attention put toward this in

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Speaker 3: the zeitgeist. Is it a feedback loop of journalists saying

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Speaker 3: this is what gets us clicks? Is it a slow

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Speaker 3: burn toward a blue beam or a great distraction? Is

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Speaker 3: it a sort of gradual dipping toes into the water

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Speaker 3: of some hidden reality behind civilization? And then, you know,

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Speaker 3: even more interesting, just to sci fi it for a

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Speaker 3: little bit, what would this non human intelligence be? Could

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Speaker 3: it be artificially created by some long gone predecessor and

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Speaker 3: it visited Earth and it's just a computer that never

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Speaker 3: stopped working.

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Speaker 2: That's reptilions.

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Speaker 4: Man.

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Speaker 2: They survived a couple of them, and they made it

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Speaker 2: off Earth and now they're coming back.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's a return. So Earth is still the origin

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Speaker 3: point they have all fear they left, they came.

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Speaker 2: Back Cilurian reptilian return, all.

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Speaker 3: Right, and they're like, hey, we got to put you

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Speaker 3: guys on to some great inventions. You've heard of agriculture,

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Speaker 3: but what.

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Speaker 2: About velcrow and corn nuts?

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Speaker 3: And for Loco, right, the fundamental building breakfast champions, the

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Speaker 3: fundamental building blocks of all human civilization.

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Speaker 4: You've heard of putting peanuts and Coca cola classic.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's very southern thing.

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Speaker 4: It's a Southern thing. It's not tried it, but sounds

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Speaker 4: kind of yummy.

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Speaker 2: To eat the peanuts or to drink the Coca cola.

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Speaker 4: Well, you drink the Coca cola, Matt, and then you

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Speaker 4: eat the peanuts. What remain at the bottom once you're finished,

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Speaker 4: because now they're all they're all marinated, So you're so

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Speaker 4: coked up.

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Speaker 3: That's a product of non human intelligence.

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Speaker 4: I think very clearly that's the case, or a very specific,

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Speaker 4: a niche form of higher human intelligence, one could argue,

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Speaker 4: So what do.

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Speaker 3: You like, back to that question, what do you think

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Speaker 3: of non human intelligence could be? Matt? You said Silurian

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Speaker 3: reptilian net that that was interesting.

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Speaker 4: I mean, what like a like a real smart golden retriever,

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Speaker 4: like certain cats.

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Speaker 2: I think in our discussions before this is just my take.

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Speaker 2: I think the most probable version of any of that

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Speaker 2: is kind of what you described. There have been some

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Speaker 2: form of intelligence that is no longer based in any

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Speaker 2: kind of biological creature. It's based in some kind of

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Speaker 2: system that uses power and processing that is not like

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Speaker 2: meat based, so you know, not in borg, right, but

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Speaker 2: something that is fully Oh what is the I can't

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Speaker 2: remember the name of the mass effect species, the death

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Speaker 2: that's all robot basically.

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Speaker 3: All right, you know. Maybe there is also the argument

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Speaker 3: that human beings are becoming themselves increasingly cybernetic, at least

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Speaker 3: the way I have to find that academically.

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Speaker 4: I was gonna ask you, Ben, do you think if

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Speaker 4: we're given the chance technology you will really start to

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Speaker 4: figure into evolution Once people start getting like, you know,

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Speaker 4: implants for example, is that gonna then become somehow a

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Speaker 4: factor in the way we continue to evolve?

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Speaker 3: It is indeed inevitable. I follow, like many of us, closely,

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Speaker 3: the news of the first person to receive a neuralink implant.

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Speaker 3: He's doing fine. He crushes Mario Kart, by the way,

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Speaker 3: played a lot of legal legends. I believe too right.

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Speaker 2: But the aren't the threads failing?

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Speaker 3: He said, some of them. This is the weirdest part

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Speaker 3: the latest news, he said, some of them went back in.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: His name is Nolan Arbot and he's the first to

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Speaker 3: get this brain device that is attributed to Elon Musk,

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Speaker 3: but to be quite honest, was not designed for by.

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Speaker 4: Them at all. He's never designed a thing in his life.

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Speaker 3: Nolan is thirty years old and you can read a

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Speaker 3: great interview with him that came out just today as

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Speaker 3: we record the evening of May twenty second, twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 3: He said, look, I got a spinal cord injury while

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Speaker 3: swimming in a lake and after that I was paralyzed

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Speaker 3: from the neck down. And he was a college student

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Speaker 3: at this time, living arguably one of the best times

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Speaker 3: of a human's life. And he said, I had to

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Speaker 3: learn how to use a mouth held stick interface device

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Speaker 3: to get around. And the same year Ela Musk founded

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Speaker 3: or co founded Neurlink, this brain implants startup. A lot

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Speaker 3: of people were saying that you're not ready for this humanity.

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Speaker 3: There's no way you can no way you can like

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Speaker 3: function with these things in your head. And he went,

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Speaker 3: Nolan went through an extensive screening process. He had brain surgery,

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Speaker 3: which is always a serious and still no offense neurosurgeons

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Speaker 3: dodgy thing. Right, if you have to go in for

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Speaker 3: a brain surgery, you do yourself a favor and don't

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Speaker 3: look at the numbers or the statistics. Just let it

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Speaker 3: be a surprise. And he has he has said that

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Speaker 3: he didn't know it was possible that the threads of

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Speaker 3: this implant could fall out of place, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean? Like, imagine getting braces on your teeth and

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Speaker 3: there's a non zero chance that some of those braces

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Speaker 3: might just pop off, right, and then how do you go,

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Speaker 3: Like what kind of dentists do you go to in

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Speaker 3: that situation?

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Speaker 2: You guys, that's a really great question. I don't know

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Speaker 2: what kind of dentists you go to in that situation.

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Speaker 2: I just really quickly want to bring this up. Near

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Speaker 2: where I live, there is a I think it's called

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Speaker 2: braces now. It's like a brick and mortar store, right,

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Speaker 2: It's all windows on the front with a bunch of

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Speaker 2: different places for a human being to sit down and

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Speaker 2: get braces. I guess I was having a conversation with

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Speaker 2: my girlfriend about like, who does who would do that,

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Speaker 2: Just go and lay down in a place where there's

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Speaker 2: just windows and then get your teeth worked on. I

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Speaker 2: don't know that that to me just felt crazy, uncomfort

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Mental spa exhibitionist, maybe because of the window, maybe to

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Speaker 3: specializing in the teeths or a dental spa. That's another

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Speaker 3: thing that's a little more high end the last point,

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Speaker 3: because I think there's more to explore here, perhaps in

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Speaker 3: an episode. The last point on the implant story is first.

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Speaker 3: Noland is at the time of this recording alive and

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Speaker 3: well and seems to have As of his conversation with Wired,

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Speaker 3: he seems to have very few regrets. He seems to

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Speaker 3: have found the quality of his life overall improved at

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Speaker 3: the moment. If you'd like to breathe more, please go

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Speaker 3: to the excellent article or the interview by Emily Mullen

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Speaker 3: over at Wired quote Neurolink's first user is constantly multitasking

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Speaker 3: with his implant. We're gonna pause for a word from

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Speaker 3: our sponsors, and then we're going to go to another

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Speaker 3: strange story, the relationship between fact and fiction. A fringe festival,

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Speaker 3: a Netflix, perhaps some legal trouble, and.

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Speaker 4: We've returned, Ben, you couldn't have set this one up better.

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Speaker 4: I have been really on the edge of my seat

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Speaker 4: watching the story. I have to admit when I first

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Speaker 4: heard of Baby Reindeer, the Netflix show that's kind of

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Speaker 4: become a overnight sensation, I was a little hesitant to

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Speaker 4: watch it. Some of the subject matter and it is

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Speaker 4: a little triggering for me. I've never had a stalker

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Speaker 4: per se, but I've certainly, you know, maybe had some

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Speaker 4: relationships that ended in what kind of felt like a

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Speaker 4: stalkery manner, or at the very least like someone not

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Speaker 4: taking being broken up with well and threatening suicide, know,

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Speaker 4: constantly calling, texting, just really abusive kind of harassment. So

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Speaker 4: I kind of put off watching it, but then I

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Speaker 4: watched it, and let me tell you, thirty minute show.

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Speaker 4: The first couple of episodes, I was covering my eyes.

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Speaker 4: It was so difficult to watch. It was, you know,

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Speaker 4: I guess the cringe is maybe a term, but not

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Speaker 4: in a comedic way, not in a Larry David style

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Speaker 4: of cringe. This is just everybody making the worst possible

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Speaker 4: choices leading to the worst possible outcomes. It's really a

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Speaker 4: story about two very lost kind of individuals. One is

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Speaker 4: a kind of failing stand up comedian named Donnie Dunn

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Speaker 4: who's played by the show's creator, Richard Gadd, and a

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Speaker 4: woman who comes into a bar where he works named Martha,

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Speaker 4: who becomes fixated with him and throughout the course of

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Speaker 4: the series begins to aggressively stalk and harass him, and

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Speaker 4: every way you could possibly imagine, the show goes all

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Speaker 4: kinds of different places and has all kinds of twists,

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Speaker 4: And according to the show itself and the titles and

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Speaker 4: the marketing from Netflix, it is not based on a

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Speaker 4: true story. It is a true story, and this is

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Speaker 4: a show that like a one man show that this guy,

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Speaker 4: Richard Gadd did at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, and he

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Speaker 4: is he performed it, I believe as like a one

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Speaker 4: man show. For some times people were aware of this,

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Speaker 4: and it is an incredibly compelling story, but there are

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Speaker 4: some details in it that may or may not actually

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Speaker 4: be true. And when you stand behind as Netflix seems

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Speaker 4: to be doing, that claim of being a true story

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Speaker 4: and then things turn out to not be true, then

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Speaker 4: that certainly opens up people, especially people as potentially aggressive

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Speaker 4: as someone like the real life Martha, who has come

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Speaker 4: forward a woman by the name of Fiona Mirror leave.

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Speaker 4: Her parents had had a hyphen it name Harvey and

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Speaker 4: Harvey Dash Murror and then when her parents divorced, she

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Speaker 4: she'd dropped the Harvey and just goes no, drop the Mirror.

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Speaker 4: I believe it. This goes by Fiona Harvey. She went

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Speaker 4: on Piers Morgan. It's certainly pretty popular over here. He

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Speaker 4: that interview with Donald Trump back in the day, but

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Speaker 4: I think over in the UK he's even more popular.

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Speaker 4: She sought Peers Morgan out to air her side of

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Speaker 4: the story and it is a fascinating interview. If anyone's

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Speaker 4: watched the show and isn't aware this is out there,

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Speaker 4: which I'd be surprised, I highly recommend checking it out,

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Speaker 4: maybe even just watching the highlights. There are also some

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Speaker 4: very interesting dissections of her body language from some you know,

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Speaker 4: kind of body language type experts and psychiatrists on the internet.

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Speaker 4: It's really becoming a thing because she really comes off

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Speaker 4: exactly like the character in the show, portrayed by the

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Speaker 4: actor Jessica Gunning in Reinier. She's Scottish, She's you know,

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Speaker 4: kind of a heavy set woman with dark hair, but

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Speaker 4: she has these very specific mannerisms and kind of turns

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Speaker 4: of phrase and ways of speaking that Jessica Gunning absolutely nails.

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Speaker 4: It's the character of Martha. And in the show it

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Speaker 4: features some mentions of articles referencing this woman's past history

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Speaker 4: of stalking, one of which involves a British politician or

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Speaker 4: a British member of Parliament who presided over the area

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Speaker 4: in London where Martha lived. And this is a Labor

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Speaker 4: Party leader by the name kir Starmer who and this

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Speaker 4: is confirmed. You know, these receipts are out there. She's

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Speaker 4: supposedly beefed with pretty hard back around twenty twenty and

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Speaker 4: sent him whopping two hundred and seventy six emails over

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Speaker 4: the course of eight months. That, however, absolutely dwarfs the

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Speaker 4: number of emails she allegedly sent to Richard Gadd, which

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Speaker 4: was in the twenties of thousands and something like three

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Speaker 4: hundred and fifty hours of voicemails and all of these

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Speaker 4: tweets and all of that she vehemently denies. But the Sun,

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Speaker 4: which I know is not like the most, is a

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Speaker 4: little bit of a tabloidy kind of rag over there

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Speaker 4: in the UK. But they did acquire these emails and

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Speaker 4: they have released a bunch of them, and they are

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Speaker 4: incredibly threatening and they are very much in the voice

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Speaker 4: of what you see in Baby Reindeer. And I think

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Speaker 4: one of the problems if Netflix and gad can be

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Speaker 4: accused of anything other than fictionalize this stuff, which you're

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Speaker 4: going to get into in a minute, it would be

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Speaker 4: not doing their due diligence and hiding this woman's identity

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Speaker 4: because they reference the idea that she stalked a member

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Speaker 4: of parliament in some headlines that they referenced in the show.

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Speaker 4: There is another incident where she supposedly or allegedly stalked

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Speaker 4: the wife of another British politician, Laura Ray, the widow

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Speaker 4: of former Labor Member of Parliament Jimmy Ray, who came

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Speaker 4: out and spoke to several news articles saying that with

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Speaker 4: this platform that she's been given now, she's worried that

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Speaker 4: it's going to come back on her. You know, it's

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Speaker 4: going to be a resurgence of the horrors that she

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Speaker 4: claims to have experienced back in two thousand and two.

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Speaker 4: And this is another article that was referenced because this

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Speaker 4: woman actually has a disabled child who I believe is

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Speaker 4: hearing impaired. At least that was what was referenced in

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Speaker 4: the show, the idea of harassing a hearing impaired child.

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Speaker 4: So got the gist out of the way, let's get

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Speaker 4: to the question at hand. Does Fiona have a legal

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Speaker 4: case against Netflix, a legal case against this crew, this,

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Speaker 4: this gentleman.

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Speaker 3: In the UK.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I think that's right. I think technically depending on

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Speaker 4: the main thing that's in question here is like when

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Speaker 4: you watch the interview and you read the stuff, you

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Speaker 4: read the emails, you kind of get a sense of

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Speaker 4: this woman's vibe. I believe that he definitely has all

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Speaker 4: of these voicemails because the actor had to have been

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Speaker 4: using those as reference, because she's it's not just like

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Speaker 4: a shot in the dark portrayal of this woman. It's

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Speaker 4: you know, obviously God would have had memories of her

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Speaker 4: if these events, you know, were true, that he could

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Speaker 4: have communicated by the way of fact. I'm sure people

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Speaker 4: are known this, but he is the actual person who

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Speaker 4: this happened to, and the creative this television show where

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Speaker 4: he stars and plays sort of an alternate version of himself,

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Speaker 4: but again claims to be fully a true story, not

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Speaker 4: based on And then do you think if they had

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Speaker 4: said based on a true story, that would be different.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting because this originated as a one man

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Speaker 3: sh at the world famous Edinburgh Fringe Festival. There's hopefully

437
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 3: one in your deck of the Global Woods. Check it

438
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 3: out if you get a chance, maybe because that the

439
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 3: idea of inspired by or based upon can be somewhat

440
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 3: of a fig leaf in at least legal system of

441
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 3: the United States. However, as I mentioned, off air defamation

442
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 3: and libel and slander kind of rules are much more

443
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 3: strict in the Kingdom. Shout out to the royal family.

444
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 4: That's right. It is a lot easier to the I

445
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 4: guess what's the word. The standard for defamation is a

446
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 4: little lower than it is over here. We pride ourselves

447
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 4: supposedly on freedom of speech, you know, freedom of the

448
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,719
Speaker 4: press and all that. So the burden of proof for

449
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 4: defamation here in the United States is a lot tougher

450
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 4: to meet than it is over there. Fiona is actually

451
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 4: and as she's portrayed in the show, though in the

452
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 4: show it's really dubious. It's presented as like is she

453
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 4: is she really? Like it seems like she's making up

454
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 4: a lot of what she's saying, but you know, deside

455
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 4: for yourself. Watch the interview. Read the emails. They are

456
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,479
Speaker 4: quite threatening and quite damning, and they're also all signed

457
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 4: off by scent from iphon or I you know, like

458
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 4: like it's hand typed to give the impression that is

459
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 4: being sent from an iPhone. And on the Piers Morgan interview,

460
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 4: weirdly enough, guys, she admits to having like five different

461
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 4: phones and six or seven different email addresses, which I

462
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 4: find really sketchy. I just she justifies it, tries to

463
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 4: justify it. She's like, no, everybody d everybody has that.

464
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,719
Speaker 4: No nobody has. That's that's unusual. Is that seems to

465
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 4: me to be the sign of someone that's trying to

466
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 4: live a double life, you know, keep things separate, have

467
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 4: multiple emails. You know, it's like having an instance, like

468
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 4: being kicked off of an Instagram account, band from somebody's account.

469
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 4: So what do you do? You start a Finstagram account,

470
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 4: which is like your fake Instagram account so you can

471
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 4: look at the accounts that you've been barred from. That

472
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 4: seems to me to be the only reason someone want

473
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 4: to have six, seven different emails. I don't know, Matt,

474
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 4: you've been quiet on this one. But I know that

475
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 4: this is interesting to you as well. Do you think

476
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 4: Fiona has a case? Do you think Gad has the receipts?

477
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 4: It seems like the easiest thing in the world to

478
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 4: prove twenty thousand plus emails, just present them. And why

479
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 4: do you think they're being so conspicuously quiet? Ah? The

480
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 4: Netflix side.

481
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a weird one for me, guys. I'm not

482
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: involved in either of these human beings lives and this

483
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: is a situation where both of their lives were personally impacted, right,

484
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: But I really enjoy the show that was created, very

485
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: good story that was still very good. So it's a

486
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 2: tough position for me to be like, Ah, this shouldn't

487
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: have happened to this, you know what, I don't know.

488
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: It feels like it needs to have been a court

489
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: case rather than a TV show first, right, so that

490
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 2: you could argue in a court of law what is

491
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: right and what's wrong. But I think we're just doing

492
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 2: that in the reverse order now.

493
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 4: And part of the show too, in the story is

494
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 4: that God doesn't report this to the police for half

495
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 4: a year, and he's even implicates himself, you know, pretty

496
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 4: you know self awaredly I guess that that's a phrase

497
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 4: in kind of leading her on and in some ways

498
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 4: like getting something out of it, you know, like he

499
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 4: talks about how it made him see himself in a

500
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 4: different way, or because she was getting all this attention,

501
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 4: he fully admits to having these, you know, pretty significant

502
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 4: problems of self loathing. And I don't want to spoil

503
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 4: anything about the show, but I think that's that's fair

504
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 4: game there. So you know, he does implicate himself. Why

505
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 4: didn't I, Why didn't I report it? Why didn't I

506
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 4: give specifics? It's almost like he loved her in his

507
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 4: own way. It's very interesting.

508
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: I mean we've talked about this before in different context,

509
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 2: but attention is kind of the currency of the day, right,

510
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 2: and when.

511
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 4: For someone who's failed like attention seeker, like a comedian,

512
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 4: you know, or someone trying to be a celebrity and failing, right, well.

513
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know, it's it's weird.

514
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 5: Man.

515
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: Even in personal relationships with friends or a significant other,

516
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: getting attention from that person is paramount. And even if

517
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: it's a stranger that you don't know, but it is

518
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: giving you crazy amounts of attention, it can sometimes feel nice.

519
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: So I'm just I'm assuming that's maybe what happened, But

520
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: again that's an assumption on my experience, so I have

521
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: no idea.

522
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 4: We also know that sometimes people will seek whatever kind

523
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 4: of attention they can, even if it's negative attention, you know,

524
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 4: and that can be just as powerful and just as

525
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 4: intoxicating very much. So I think that they're preparing for

526
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 4: a court battle. I do think that they've been so,

527
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 4: you know, Gad said in a Hollywood Reporter interview that

528
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 4: he's not going to comment about it maybe ever again.

529
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 4: And Pierce Morgan, you know that his interview has been

530
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 4: viewed twenty million times on YouTube alone. He had like

531
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 4: a little postbortem about and he said, well, you know,

532
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 4: while for all intents and purposes, I've heard that Richard

533
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 4: Gad's a nice dude, it's kind of convenient for you

534
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 4: to say, well, now, I'm not going to talk about

535
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 4: it because if he did not do due diligence and

536
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 4: the accusation that's being made. Martha's denying a lot of

537
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 4: this stuff. Martha, You're sorry. Fiona is denying most of

538
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 4: this stuff. She's very weird the way she goes about it.

539
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 4: In the interview. You can really get a sense that

540
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 4: she's hiding something. But what it feels like she isn't

541
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 4: lying about is being incarcerated like they, you know, in

542
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 4: the show, she is accused of having been incarcerated not

543
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 4: once but twice. And that's also very provable. And even

544
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 4: if all the rest of the stuff is true and

545
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 4: they and she wasn't incarcerated, that alone might be grounds

546
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 4: for a legal action. So interesting case, interesting all around

547
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 4: because it's like, you know, this is the kind of

548
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 4: thing you would only see as a true crime documentary

549
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 4: instead of like a re enactment. I guess let's call

550
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 4: it with the actual person that happened to playing themselves.

551
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 4: It's very unusual, and we know how these things go.

552
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 4: People take liberties to do so, but inserting a whole thing,

553
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 4: presenting it as part of a true story that didn't

554
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 4: happen period, not just changing a line or two. That

555
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 4: seems to be crossing a line or two. So I

556
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 4: don't know, guys, I think we can probably take a

557
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 4: quick break, hear a word from our sponsor, and then

558
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 4: be back with one more piece of strange news.

559
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 2: And we've returned. Before we get started, guys, I got

560
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: two quick things. The first one. Let's get a shout

561
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: out if we can to Mark. Hey, Mark, Hi, Ma.

562
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: Mark is the branch manager of a bank near where

563
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 2: I live, and he recognized the old voice in a

564
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: little conversation. He listens to the show very cool, very

565
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 2: very cool guys, and he wanted to say hey to

566
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 2: both of you guys.

567
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 3: Hey, Mark, it's a pleasure to meet you.

568
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: I'm well, we have hell mock well, he says, Hi Mark,

569
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 2: He just says, hi, mock.

570
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 4: Well.

571
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 2: Here you go, Hey, shout out to you, sir. The

572
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: other thing, do you guys remember a story from last July.

573
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 2: It's something we covered on Listener Mail. It was based

574
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: on a voicemail we received from Max Taut about the

575
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 2: death of a man named John O'Keefe who was a

576
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: Boston Police officer that was found dead in the snow

577
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 2: outside another police officer's house.

578
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 4: Yes, I remember, yes, Okay, So not the not the

579
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 4: drinking partier snow or dead in the snow. Sorry, not

580
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 4: that one, similar though, crazy, Okay, go ahead.

581
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: This is the Boston PD officer that's found outside the

582
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: home of a different police departments officer's house after a

583
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: night out drinking at the bar. So this one has

584
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: evolved quite a bit since then. I don't know if

585
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: you guys remember the specifics, but there was a conspiracy

586
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 2: alleged by a lot of people who were kind of

587
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 2: following it in the local news there, saying, hey, this

588
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: feels really fishy just that this. You know, it appears

589
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 2: that maybe something happened inside the house at this party

590
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: where he was. But everyone in the official investigation is

591
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 2: saying that the girlfriend of two years, Karen Reid, somehow

592
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 2: killed him with her vehicle.

593
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 3: It felt kind of stonewalled two because everybody was telling

594
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 3: such a similar version of the story. I'm just going

595
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 3: to say, because I was on the more conspiratorial side

596
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 3: biases to one end, let's bracket those. Usually, when multiple

597
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 3: different witnesses are telling the truth about something, their stories

598
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 3: are still going to differ a little bit because of

599
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 3: the hazards of memory exactly.

600
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 2: They're not going to be as though somebody wrote in

601
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: notes document exactly what happened that night and then shared

602
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 2: it with everybody, or maybe there was a text thread

603
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: with a bunch of people there that night, which is

604
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 2: what's happening right now in the court. So this is

605
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 2: why we're even talking about it again. John's girlfriend, Karen Reid,

606
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 2: currently on trial facing charges of second degree murder, motor

607
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 2: vehicle manslaughter while driving under the influence, and leaving the

608
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 2: scene of a collision causing injury and death. And she

609
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 2: has since this trial began, she has, you know, said hey, no,

610
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 2: I'm innocent. She pled not guilty. Her attorneys alleged that

611
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: she is being fully framed, that there's an actual conspiracy

612
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 2: and a cover up afoot that's being perpetrated by a

613
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 2: group of people who went to that party, who were

614
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 2: at that home, the same home where his body was

615
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 2: discovered the next morning. And my gosh, you guys, compelling stuff.

616
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 2: Everything is coming out about, you know, the Google searches

617
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 2: that occurred by a few different people, specific this person,

618
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,959
Speaker 2: Jennifer McCabe, who is on the stand, I think, yeah,

619
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: today Wednesday, May twenty second, as we're recording this, you

620
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 2: know about a what the Google search was, how long

621
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 2: to die in cold? But how is misspelled as hos.

622
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 3: Gee, yeah you type it or hurry it happens.

623
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and there was some there are a bunch

624
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 2: of other like calls and texts that have been just

625
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 2: kind of gone over in this trial where it's people

626
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 2: who were at that party saying something about getting the

627
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 2: story straight. It's it's nuts.

628
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 3: Let's make this right is the common trope in true

629
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 3: crime and procedurals, and unfortunately it's based in truth. It's

630
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 3: not necessarily the truth and tire of every case, but

631
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 3: it is not. This would not be an unprecedented thing

632
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 3: for a group of people to say, we have to

633
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 3: make this story right.

634
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: You know.

635
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 3: You'll also you'll also tell the professionals in those kind

636
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 3: of conversations because they don't speak, they're very careful about

637
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 3: how they speak in conditional phrasing, so they'll say when

638
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 3: they're saying, let's agree that this is what happened, then

639
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 3: they're saying, they'll speak it as though it is already

640
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 3: agreed upon. It's a little it's a clever thing, but

641
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 3: it works. If there's a microphone around you, which you

642
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 3: always assume there is.

643
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 2: Oh there always are. Come on, look in your pocket, dude.

644
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: There are four in five in my media vicinity, which

645
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 2: is crazy to think about with all your devices that

646
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: you know of. Oh yeah, sure, wherever yours has been,

647
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 2: I'm not.

648
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 3: I just always think about that too, man. That's part

649
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 3: of why I don't go to Airbnb's.

650
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 2: A that's why I always go to airbnbs, just for

651
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 2: that of being in a cam show. But this is

652
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 2: this is all to say, check it out because there

653
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 2: is stuff directly what Ben is talking about there where

654
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 2: there's a text thread. One of the texts says, and

655
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 2: I'm paraphrasing here, tell them or him that he never

656
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 2: came in the house, as in like they're debating on

657
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 2: the stand whether or not that means to tell the

658
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 2: police that the guy never came in the house when

659
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: they're being interviewed, or it is to tell a person

660
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 2: specifically about oh, he never came in the house. It

661
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 2: just as a matter of fact. It's just that healthy. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

662
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 2: So we won't go into that. Check out all the

663
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 2: law Tube channels, check out all the social accounts, hundreds

664
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 2: of media outlets. They're all reporting on it every day

665
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: right now, in crazy detail. It's probably worth your time

666
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 2: because it does kind of show again, can you actually

667
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 2: get to the truth in a trial if one side

668
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 2: is just fully lying, even like is there a smoking

669
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 2: gun in this case? We shall see. Now let's go

670
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: to the actual story, ready, Yeah, Okay, this one comes

671
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 2: to us from NBC News on May eighteenth. I'm not

672
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 2: gonna say the title, but I'll tell you the title later,

673
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: just so we can learn the story as it goes.

674
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 4: Here.

675
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 2: Way back on August fifth, twenty twenty, at a home

676
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 2: in a suburban neighborhood of Denver, Colorado, there was a

677
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 2: house fire. This fire caused the deaths, unfortunately, of three

678
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 2: adults and two very small children. One was twenty two

679
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 2: months old and the other was only six months old.

680
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 2: All of the people who died were it was. It

681
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 2: was like a family and kind of family friends who

682
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 2: were all from Senegal. That's a country on the far

683
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 2: western coast of Africa, south of I'm going to say

684
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 2: it wrong, Mauritania and north of Guinea. We can go through.

685
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: I'll try and pronounce the victims' names. I'm not going

686
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 2: to do it perfectly. Is Jabriel Duol, who was twenty

687
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 2: nine years old, and the Deja Duol. They were a

688
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 2: couple that had a twenty two month old daughter whose

689
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 2: name was Kadija. They had a relative staying with them

690
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 2: named Hassanjiol who was twenty five, and she had the

691
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 2: six month old daughter named Hawa. Very very sad. There

692
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 2: were also three other human beings in that house that

693
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 2: escaped with injuries because they jumped from the second story.

694
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: Really horrifying, terrifying thing to be within a house fire.

695
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 2: It has yet to happen to me, so I don't

696
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 2: know personally what it's like, but I you know, I

697
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 2: remember going through fire safety like you guys probably did

698
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 2: when we're younger, Like experiencing flames up close like that,

699
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 2: and attempting to duck under the smoke and find an exit.

700
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: It's just horrified.

701
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 3: Stop, drop roll and check the tech, the temperature under

702
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 3: the door, all the hits, all the good stuff. I'm

703
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 3: so glad we have fire extinguishers in our cars now

704
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 3: just in case.

705
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and everywhere in my house. But horrifying thing

706
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 2: that occurred. Right, All that is known after this fire happened,

707
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 2: you know, because when a house fire occurs, if you're

708
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: investigating it, you're going to check to see if they're

709
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 2: the fire started in the house by accident.

710
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 4: Right.

711
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 2: We've talked about several homes that have gone up in

712
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 2: flames because of a gas leak that caused either an

713
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 2: explosion or a slow leak. Then there was an ignition

714
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 2: at some point through a match, or through lighting, you know,

715
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: a gas stove or something like that.

716
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 3: Even an electrical short can do it exactly.

717
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 2: Oh, there are so many ways a house can catch fire.

718
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 2: In this case, the investigators found a surveillance video of

719
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: three suspects who were wearing full face masks and dark

720
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 2: hoodies just before the fire started.

721
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 3: Like scar like a balaklava like this kind of thing.

722
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 2: Oh, very similar. Very cool that you have that right

723
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 2: by you as a recording. Bent, yeah at all. Don't

724
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 2: be suspicious, don't be suspicious.

725
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 3: But just so everybody can get the reference kind of

726
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 3: like a ski mask.

727
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you had that on bro. So there's

728
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 2: a fairly large Senegalese population that lives out there in

729
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 2: this specific area of Denver, and it was known then

730
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 2: like this was a Senegalese family that seems to have

731
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 2: been targeted for some reason unknown at this point, So

732
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: a lot of other Senegalese immigrant families and were installing

733
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 2: security cameras just to see, like to check basically for

734
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 2: their own safety, hoping that this would not happen to them.

735
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 2: Because the investigation had been dragging out for quite a

736
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 2: while months, no leads. All they knew is these masked

737
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 2: individuals decided this house needed to go up in flames,

738
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 2: and it killed a bunch of people. Until you, guys,

739
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 2: the police decided to go a different route use technology

740
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 2: a little bit, which is why it made me think

741
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 2: about the Karen Reid thing. They obtained a search warrant

742
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 2: for Google basically for alphabet or however it goes. They

743
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: wanted to know which IP addresses, any IP addresses, had

744
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 2: searched that home specific address within the last fifteen days

745
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 2: just before the fire. Right, was anybody wanting to come

746
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 2: out here for any reason or maybe searched on how

747
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 2: to get here or even potentially used Google Maps or

748
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 2: something similar to get to that address. Well, there were

749
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 2: five IP addresses that were based in Colorado, and the

750
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: police obtained search warrants for all of those named people

751
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 2: and began investigating them, and through their investigations found that

752
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 2: there were three, in fact individuals that seemed to be

753
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 2: full on suspects in this case, and they were all

754
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 2: arrested roughly five months after this home went up in

755
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 2: flames and those five people were killed. So before we

756
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,479
Speaker 2: even get to what happened after that, let's just talk

757
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 2: really quickly. Google searches or searching through any you know,

758
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 2: any search function through any app or whatever you're using.

759
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 2: Should that be something that can be used in an investigation?

760
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 2: Because it's happening in Karen Reid's case and it just

761
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 2: happened in this one too.

762
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, well the jurisprudence says yes. So legally, legally that's true.

763
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 3: I mean, if we again, if we just think through

764
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: the cold logic of it, the best attempt as civilian

765
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 3: would make is to conduct that sort of search through

766
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 3: a VPN or if you could, you know, do the

767
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 3: library trick and hope you're disguised enough not to be

768
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 3: on camera. But there's not I personally in this case,

769
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 3: and not to talk too much about myself, but I

770
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 3: think a lot of us can agree in this case

771
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 3: it makes sense to do that. It's the right thing

772
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 3: to do. People are dead, Innocent people are dead. And

773
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 3: then it becomes a question of to what degree are

774
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 3: we okay with this kind of with this kind of strategy, right?

775
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 3: What what happens when it becomes, you know, a tool

776
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 3: of the corrupt, Like you know how the NSA got

777
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 3: their fingers kind their knuckles kind of wrapped because some

778
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 3: of their some of their employees were collecting news. You know,

779
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 3: like the technology can be abused, and in this case

780
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 3: it feels like it is not abuse. It is smart

781
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 3: to do this because we don't know whether they We

782
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 3: don't know if or how long it would have taken

783
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 3: them to arrive at these suspects.

784
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 2: Otherwise, well, yeah, it seems like a really smart move

785
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 2: to me. Like, let's at least see if anybody was

786
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 2: checking on this house before it got caught fined.

787
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: We know how many other IP addresses pinged.

788
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 2: I have no idea. I haven't seen like a list

789
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 2: or anything like that. Who knows? And can you imagine

790
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 2: like how many people on planet Earth? So for that

791
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 2: specific street address, right, I imagine there would be some

792
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 2: that like share the same number and street, but in

793
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 2: like seventeen different places on the planet.

794
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 3: You know, it'd be interesting to see if any ips

795
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 3: into car ping did as well the capital of senecal Ben.

796
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 4: You were talking about the library trick, Yeah, right, like

797
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 4: like in seven so you mean like where you see

798
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 4: what kinds of books have been checked out and you

799
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 4: narrow down a list and oh.

800
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 3: I know what you're talking about. This one that that

801
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:32,720
Speaker 3: would is something it's.

802
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 4: A similar type of overreach, you could argue, but if used,

803
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 4: you know, to crack a case, you might have a

804
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 4: greater good argument. But then it's a bit of a

805
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 4: slippery slope just to in seven. They look and they

806
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 4: have an insider with the I believe it's the FBI

807
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 4: who they're able to see who's been checking out books

808
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 4: like Paradise Lost Things connect to the seven Deadly Sins,

809
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 4: and they get a short list, and on that list,

810
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 4: one of the guys they go visit turns out to

811
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 4: be you know, the perpetrator.

812
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 3: Sorry, Ben, no, no, no, Right, that's a that's a

813
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 3: smart trick to know that is a possibility if you

814
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,240
Speaker 3: use the US library system. That's a library trick. Another

815
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 3: one that I'm referencing is that if you don't want

816
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 3: to have too many pings on you, right, the library

817
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 3: trick is where you go into a library which has

818
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 3: a much lower burden of proof of ID and you

819
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 3: use their computers to do some research.

820
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 4: Oh, as long as it.

821
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 3: You know, I mean, don't do it in.

822
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 4: Terms of protecting your yeahay, in terms of protecting here, yeah,

823
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 4: of course, but protecting your search history.

824
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 2: Well, let's stay on pings for a second guys. Yeah,

825
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 2: So there were three suspects that they found and after

826
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:47,760
Speaker 2: a long investigation, after a court decision, the Colorado Supreme

827
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 2: Court's decision to uphold those Google searches for the keyword

828
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: history to use it in the court of law against

829
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: these guys. Right, one of the suspects, I guess, came

830
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 2: forward with what happened, and it has to do with pings.

831
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 2: He at least acording to his story, he was robbed

832
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: of his iPhone in the pretty recent past to I

833
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 2: guess the summer of twenty twenty, and he used the

834
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 2: find my app Right, I hope everybody's used to that

835
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 2: or knows what that is. That's where you can if

836
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 2: you're an Apple user specifically, I think you can find

837
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 2: other devices everything from another iPad, air pods, yeah, air tags,

838
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 2: all kinds of things. It will find pretty close to

839
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 2: where it is using Bluetooth, Wi Fi and any other

840
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 2: means to connect to the device. Well, this person, his

841
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 2: name is Kevin Bui Bui. He was a teenager at

842
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 2: the time. He had been robbed of his cell phone

843
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 2: and he used find by to somewhat locate the last

844
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: known location of his device, and he made some determination.

845
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 2: Nobody knows it exactly why or how that this was

846
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 2: the home. This specific home is where his iPhone was,

847
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 2: and he got some friends and they decided to set

848
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 2: the house on fire in an act of revenge, at

849
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: least according to their stories. And that's according to the

850
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:22,280
Speaker 2: stories of a person named Dylan Siebert, who was fourteen

851
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 2: years old when he and his friends set fire to

852
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 2: that house. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to three

853
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 2: years in juvenile detention and seven years in a state

854
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 2: prison program for young inmates because he pleaded guilty to

855
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 2: second degree murder under a deal. Again, because I think

856
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 2: he talked and he basically gave up what had occurred.

857
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 2: There's one other person, Gavin Seymour, who was nineteen at

858
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 2: the time of sentencing, so I guess he was a

859
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 2: teenager as well. He was sentenced to forty years in

860
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 2: prison after pleading guilty to one count a second degree murder.

861
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 2: And the reason why we're even talking about is because

862
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 2: the first person, Kevin Bue, also pleaded guilty very recently.

863
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 2: I LO know, guys, this is a really sad one.

864
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 2: I just thought it was interesting, this concept of just

865
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 2: using the basic things we do every day with our

866
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: phones as potentially being used against us in a court

867
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 2: of law. The thing that freaks me out is if

868
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 2: you actually didn't do anything wrong and had nothing to

869
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 2: do with it, but whatever, you know, whatever combination of

870
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 2: keywords and timed stamps and all that stuff happens to

871
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 2: match up, you could be at least looked at by

872
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 2: a police officer sitting somewhere in Denver just checking out

873
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:39,959
Speaker 2: your ip's history.

874
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,479
Speaker 3: A troubling conversation, or at least an uncomfortable one. Right,

875
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 3: So check out our earlier episodes on interrogation techniques. And also,

876
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 3: you know, Matt, it's gone too far for us, but

877
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 3: we our search histories are basically a digital version of

878
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 3: face tattoos, you know what I mean?

879
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:56,720
Speaker 2: Guys?

880
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:01,240
Speaker 4: Aren't there still certain protections where you don't have to

881
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 4: give over your phone? I mean that are encrypted and

882
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,439
Speaker 4: they can't just go through your phone without your consent? Right?

883
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,439
Speaker 4: I mean, isn't that sort of the idea? And weren't

884
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 4: there even situations where, you know, in murder cases, Apple

885
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 4: would not decrypt someone's phone to help find the perpetrator.

886
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 3: In some cases, it often depends on this might be

887
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 3: a future episode just the digital hygiene, but it often

888
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 3: depends upon what other evidence the law enforcement authorities can

889
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,839
Speaker 3: give to that private industry. What's happening here is legislation

890
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 3: is reacting to technology instead of laying out rules because

891
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 3: we don't know the full field or the full theater

892
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 3: of engagement. So I would not be surprised if this

893
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 3: comes back to haunt people in this case. To your pointment,

894
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 3: it does seem very much like this was the appropriate strategy,

895
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 3: the appropriate use to bring justice to But then we

896
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 3: have to ask about countries with political activism. We have

897
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,760
Speaker 3: to ask about increasingly authoritarian government. Shout Out Project twenty

898
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 3: twenty five. Remember your Internet history never really goes away.

899
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, shout out to Russia. Congrats on the recent

900
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 2: tactical nuclear weapon drills.

901
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they also they also deleted their statement about

902
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 3: redrawing the Baltic Sea territories. Come on, guys, stop vague booking.

903
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,720
Speaker 2: I just don't like I don't like tactical nuclear weapons.

904
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're Jack Ray not cool, But you know who

905
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 3: is cool? Everyone who tunes into this show is all right.

906
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 3: That's like my most awkward segue of twenty twenty four.

907
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,439
Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more I couldn't agree more with you, Noel,

908
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 3: with you Matt, and with you fellow conspiracy realists. We

909
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 3: can't wait to hear your takes. As we said at

910
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 3: the top, one of the most beautiful things about Strange

911
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 3: News is we are never going to get to everything,

912
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 3: but with your help, we're going to find new, intriguing,

913
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 3: sinister stuff. They don't want you to know, so sign

914
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 3: up for our next listener mail program. If you have

915
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,920
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916
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 3: give us your thoughts. We try to be easy to

917
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 3: find online.

918
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:18,120
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919
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 4: and x fka Twitter. You can find this at the

920
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 4: handle Conspiracy Stuff Show on Instagram and TikTok.

921
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,200
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922
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:32,640
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923
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Speaker 2: a cool nickname and let us know if we can

924
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,359
Speaker 2: use that name and your voice on the air. If

925
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,080
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926
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,520
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927
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:42,640
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928
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,919
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929
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:50,759
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930
00:54:50,760 --> 00:55:10,480
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931
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,720
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932
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:17,359
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933
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