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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with

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Speaker 1: tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette

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Speaker 1: and I am an editor at how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: Sitting across from me as usual actually leaning as senior

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Speaker 1: writer Jonathan Strickland. Hey, there, very nice effect like that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know why you really see, we we don't

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Speaker 1: talk about that. We you know, if there's a gimmick,

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Speaker 1: we wait and find out what it is. It's more

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Speaker 1: fun that way. Yes, so we're today we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about It was something that Chris actually suggested. He

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Speaker 1: had seen an article that the BBC had published upon

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Speaker 1: their website about pretty cool concept and it's not a

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Speaker 1: new concept notes, but it's um an interesting one. Vacuum trains. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I um, I've always loved trains. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: it is exactly about them that I love you. And

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Speaker 1: Disney that's true actually a lot of it. Early Disney

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Speaker 1: engineers liked them and um yeah, they showed up a

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Speaker 1: lot in those uh and the Disney UH Wave of

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Speaker 1: the future sort of things and and others too. You know,

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Speaker 1: Jonathan and I have talked about this. Cartoons that talk

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Speaker 1: about what's going to happen in the future usually, um,

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Speaker 1: they throw in some funny twist about it, but um,

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, tomorrow Land. This is kind of a tomorrow

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Speaker 1: landy concept. Too far off from the whole monorail, although

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Speaker 1: different different method of propulsion. Yeah yeah, And um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've been interested in in magnetic levitation trains mag lev

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Speaker 1: trains for quite some time. Um. And it's one of

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Speaker 1: those things that, uh, you know, it's not that it's

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Speaker 1: so complex that it can't be done. It's more that

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Speaker 1: it's so expensive that it's just really hard to do.

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Speaker 1: And and vact trains or vacuum trains or another they're

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Speaker 1: actually related. They're pretty closely related in some ways. You

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily have to have all right, Maglev trains are

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Speaker 1: not vacuum trains by definition, but necessarily that's right. And

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Speaker 1: vacuum trains do not necessarily have to be maglev trains,

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Speaker 1: although they can be vacuum trains that are maglev. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: you can't have you can't have both, but they're not

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Speaker 1: necessary for this. For this is not necessarily the same thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so what is a vacuum train? Well, you know, the

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Speaker 1: name kind of gives gives it away. What you do

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Speaker 1: is the ideas you take a tube, you pump the

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Speaker 1: air out of that tube, creating a vacuum, and then

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Speaker 1: you allow a train to go through the tube. And

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Speaker 1: because you've pumped the air out, you have removed the

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Speaker 1: problem of air resistance. Because when a train travels normally

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Speaker 1: above ground or even below ground, if it's not a vacuum,

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Speaker 1: it's pushing air ahead of it. Yes, that that requires work.

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Speaker 1: That air even though air does not feel like we

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Speaker 1: don't really necessarily think of air feeling like, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of resistance there. If you've ever been outside a

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Speaker 1: heavy wind, you know that it takes work to just

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Speaker 1: stand up right. Yeah. Anybody who's skated or written their

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Speaker 1: bicycle at a brisk pace, Um, you know you feel

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Speaker 1: the wind in your hair and on your face. Or

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Speaker 1: somebody actually was written in a convertible, especially in the

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Speaker 1: back seat, you're gonna feel, um, the wind pushing on you.

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Speaker 1: It's it's like it's it's creating its own little wind.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you know wind rest, Yeah, you know

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Speaker 1: that of course, there are their companies that dedicate themselves

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Speaker 1: to finding new ways to reduce air resistance so that

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Speaker 1: uh so that various things can move faster with less

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Speaker 1: problems of the air impacting them. Well, well, bullet trains,

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Speaker 1: you know, we we've mentioned him a couple of times

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Speaker 1: to think on the the podcast before. They you know,

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Speaker 1: if you've seen one of these trains, they go very

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Speaker 1: very fast, but they are also extremely streamlined. The engine

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Speaker 1: is you know, and then that's I think why they

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Speaker 1: call them a bullet train is because they have a

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Speaker 1: pointy nose on the front which is designed to cut

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Speaker 1: down on wind resistance. Yeah, it's all, it's all part

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Speaker 1: of the plan. And so the by using a vacuum,

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Speaker 1: you remove the air so now you don't have to

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Speaker 1: worry about air resistance. There's also, by the way, a

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Speaker 1: tendency when a train is pushing air in front of it,

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Speaker 1: it's also creating the sort of um vacuum effect on

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Speaker 1: its own. There's there's because it's pushing air out the

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Speaker 1: way and then the air has to rush into fill

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Speaker 1: up that space again. It actually starts to pull a

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Speaker 1: bit on the train. So the trains pushing air ahead

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Speaker 1: of it and being pulled by air behind it, So

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Speaker 1: it's doing work that way. By pumping all the air out,

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Speaker 1: you have removed that, um, that that force acting upon

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Speaker 1: the train, and it can move at a faster rate

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Speaker 1: than it could if air were a factor because all

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Speaker 1: that work that it would be putting towards pushing the

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Speaker 1: air out of the way can now just be put

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Speaker 1: towards speed and acceleration. So even if you had a

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Speaker 1: standard electric train in a vacuum, it could travel faster

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Speaker 1: than it would normally travel. Yeah, and that was one

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Speaker 1: of the things that it was interesting to me when

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Speaker 1: I really grab my attention when I read that article

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Speaker 1: on the BBC website was because, um, they were suggesting

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Speaker 1: that if there were a vacuum tube track from Europe

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Speaker 1: to the United States, you could make the trip and

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Speaker 1: a vac train in about an hour a little bit

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Speaker 1: more maybe, And and then that imagining that versus you know,

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Speaker 1: flying across even Yeah, that's the thing that got me

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Speaker 1: was the idea of leaving say London and arriving in

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Speaker 1: New York four hours before you left, Thank you times owns.

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Speaker 1: Just just because the time zones, you're not literally time traveling,

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Speaker 1: you're traveling through time, it would seem because it's still

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Speaker 1: progressing as you're sitting there on the train. It's just

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Speaker 1: that you're going back through the time zones. And so

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Speaker 1: because your your speed is faster than the uh than

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Speaker 1: the time zones can account for, you would actually you know,

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Speaker 1: you leave at nine am and you would arrive at

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Speaker 1: at four am or five am actually because it was

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Speaker 1: four hours or so five am, and uh, so you

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Speaker 1: have the whole day ahead of you. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: all relative, it is all relative. Um. But yeah, there

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Speaker 1: were a lot of experiments that were conducted over the

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Speaker 1: years to see if this would actually be the case,

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Speaker 1: and it did seem to be so. And it did

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Speaker 1: seem that they would have that speeding up that would

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Speaker 1: cut down on wind resistance and make it a lot

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Speaker 1: faster as what you're saying right, Yes, yes, there were

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Speaker 1: there were researchers with M I T that did some tests.

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Speaker 1: They created a vacuum tube and then they shot things

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Speaker 1: through it, like down the tube, not through the tube,

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Speaker 1: not by secting the tube, but down the tube along

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Speaker 1: the length of the So they said they started with

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Speaker 1: the most um I think logical thing to shoot down

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Speaker 1: a vacuum tube. Ping pong ball No, hamsters would be

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Speaker 1: the first. No, no, no, no, you no, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to put an animal in a vacuum tube. It

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Speaker 1: would die. That's true. Plus natures a vacuum. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: that's true. That's true because I have never once seen

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Speaker 1: a shrubbery do any darn vacuum anyway, So we both

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Speaker 1: love animals. Question, they don't do that? They started, yes,

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Speaker 1: do not build a tube an air steal tube and

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Speaker 1: then pump the air out of it. I think we're

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Speaker 1: all I think we're safe on that one. So guys

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Speaker 1: that m I T don't do that, don't um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: they shot ping pong balls down the tube first. Then

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Speaker 1: they started creating these little mechanical models to travel down.

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Speaker 1: And what they do is they would, you know, measure

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Speaker 1: how fast the mechanical model could travel in a in

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Speaker 1: an air filled environment versus the vacuum environment. And they

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Speaker 1: figured that if they had a standard train, they could

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Speaker 1: probably you know, well actually a relatively fast trained they

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Speaker 1: could probably get up to about five hundred and eighty

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Speaker 1: miles per hour, which is about nine d and thirty

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Speaker 1: kilometers per hour. That seems reasonably quick that's pretty darn fast.

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Speaker 1: And they said that it would be about twice as

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Speaker 1: fast as it would be if the tube were filled

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Speaker 1: with air. So that gave the suggestion of why don't

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Speaker 1: we look into this further, Why don't we look and see,

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Speaker 1: you know, what could the upper limits of this be?

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Speaker 1: And theoretically, according to the BBC article, those upper limits

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Speaker 1: would be about twenty five hundred miles per hour or

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Speaker 1: four thousand kilometers per hour. That's what allow you to

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Speaker 1: get from Europe to North America in an hour. Um,

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Speaker 1: and uh yeah, that's super fast. Now you have to

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Speaker 1: do a couple of things. You need to remember that

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Speaker 1: even in these super fast systems, you don't accelerate to

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Speaker 1: top speed quickly because that would squish you. You would

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Speaker 1: be undergoing such tremendous g forces that it would be

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Speaker 1: at least uncomfortable, if not uh deadly. So the way

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Speaker 1: these trains tend to work is they have a nice

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Speaker 1: gradual acceleration so that you feel the acceleration, but it's

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Speaker 1: a steady acceleration, so it's not increasing on you as

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Speaker 1: time goes by, and then once it hits its speed,

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Speaker 1: you coast at that speed for you know, top speed

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Speaker 1: for however long you need to, and then you do

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Speaker 1: a gradual deceleration. So in most so not like if

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Speaker 1: you you know, stopped from ludicrous speed then you end

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Speaker 1: up smashing into the console screen or whatever. Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: The way it works is that, Um, typically in most trips,

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Speaker 1: you're you are not traveling at top speed for very

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Speaker 1: long because you're spending most of the trip accelerating and

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Speaker 1: then decelerating. It's you're only at top speed for a

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Speaker 1: little while. And because you're not accelerating at top speed,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like like within the confines of the vehicle,

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Speaker 1: you don't feel like you're going that fast. Now you

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Speaker 1: look outside and you see stuff whizzing by, and a

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Speaker 1: holy cow, we're going fast. But without that outside uh indicator,

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Speaker 1: you feel like you're more or less staying still. Um.

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Speaker 1: Same sort of thing with this. Now, to get to

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Speaker 1: that incredible speed of twenty miles per hour or four

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Speaker 1: thousand kilometers per hour, you would need a special kind

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Speaker 1: of train. You know, you wouldn't necessarily be using a

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Speaker 1: train that has wheels, or at least not relying solely

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Speaker 1: upon wheels to get to where it's going. Where we're going,

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Speaker 1: we don't need roads, um, and you do need track

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Speaker 1: and uh in a vacuum. In that kind of environment too,

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Speaker 1: you'd have to it would it would be very critical

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Speaker 1: to have a form of um propulsion that would work

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Speaker 1: within that. I would imagine in a vacuum. Uh, it

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Speaker 1: would be very difficult to operate a combustion engine, yah,

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Speaker 1: since you would need air or well, you would probably

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Speaker 1: use an electric engine, and you use like the third

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Speaker 1: rail type system that of subway trains and a a lot

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Speaker 1: of electrical trains used. I'm speaking from a you know,

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Speaker 1: it couldn't be like a diesel train. Um, couldn't. You

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Speaker 1: couldn't use You'd have to have it completely in. I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine how you would take care of the exhaust, Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: because you would have to expose it. I mean you'd

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Speaker 1: have to have some sort of air airlock system where

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Speaker 1: you could pump exhaust into an airlock h unloaded to

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Speaker 1: the vacuum without compromising the whole system. Yeah, it would

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Speaker 1: be complicated. What we're saying so electric. Just for my

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Speaker 1: own thoughts, I can't imagine how you would do that,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't It wouldn't be easy. Those steam engines would be

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Speaker 1: terrible in a vacuum. Yeah. Um. So anyway, the it's

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Speaker 1: more likely that you would use electric or electro magnetic propulsion. Now,

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Speaker 1: plus I'm sure it'd be a lot more fish. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So so that brings us to the maglev trains. Magnetic

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Speaker 1: levitation trains. These are super cool and sometimes they're literally

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Speaker 1: super cooled. Cuts down a resistance, So the concept here

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Speaker 1: is pretty pretty interesting. The idea is that you use

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Speaker 1: some combination of magnets. They might be electro magnets or magnets,

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Speaker 1: magnets magnets, They might be electro magnets, or they might

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Speaker 1: be permanent magnets, or there could be a combination of

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Speaker 1: the two, uh, and you use them in such a

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Speaker 1: way as to make the train levitate so it's actually

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Speaker 1: off the surface of whatever the track is, and that way,

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Speaker 1: when it travels, there's no uh. It reduces all that

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Speaker 1: resistance as well, so you've reduced the friction that you

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Speaker 1: would have from the track, and so it also cuts

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Speaker 1: down on things like you don't have to worry about

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Speaker 1: maintenance as much because you aren't having that wear and tear.

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Speaker 1: You know that the train isn't rubbing against the track.

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Speaker 1: The there aren't wheels that are starting to wear down

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Speaker 1: over time. It's not wearing down the track over time.

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Speaker 1: So once you get the system in place, maintenance theoretically

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Speaker 1: should be pretty routine. You shouldn't have to worry about

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Speaker 1: wear and tear so much. Now there's going to be

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Speaker 1: somewhere in tear depending on the style of the train involved,

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Speaker 1: but we'll get into that. Yeah, the the magnets themselves

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Speaker 1: will be put in in something called a Halbach array.

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Speaker 1: That's that's if they're using permanent magnets. Yeah, that's one method. Well,

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Speaker 1: and and that's very cool. UM. I didn't really understand

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Speaker 1: exactly how this was done. UM, but apparently that the

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Speaker 1: scientist it's named after the scientists who came up with it,

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Speaker 1: and he was actually thinking about it in terms of

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Speaker 1: a particle accelerator. UM. But if you place the magnets

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Speaker 1: in a certain position, it pushes, it concentrates the magnetic

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Speaker 1: field on one side of the magnets. UM. And instead,

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Speaker 1: so you know how you have a north and a

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Speaker 1: south pole. UM. If you line up the magnets in

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Speaker 1: the way that uh, the good professor came up with, UM,

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Speaker 1: it would concentrate this force on one side, thus enabling

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Speaker 1: the to keep the train up. And that's so it's

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Speaker 1: it's uh, you know, toward the train and it it

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Speaker 1: pushes the magnetic field that way, which is a really

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Speaker 1: interesting application of a technology from one purpose to another. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there there's a couple of different ways of doing this.

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Speaker 1: Um you know. So so like pole repels like right,

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Speaker 1: So north pole and north pole push push push against

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Speaker 1: each other. North Pole and south pole opposites a track

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Speaker 1: pulled together. So depending on what sort of train you have,

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Speaker 1: um that will determine you know, what what sort of

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Speaker 1: magnets you using and how you use them. So for example,

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Speaker 1: there's a type of maglev train called electro magnetic suspension trains.

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Speaker 1: So the way these work, uh So imagining you have

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Speaker 1: an elevated track and you have a concrete um guidance

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Speaker 1: beam that goes down the middle of the track, and

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Speaker 1: it looks like if you were to cut it, cut

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Speaker 1: that track in half and look down the length of it,

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Speaker 1: like look at it from the cross section, you would

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Speaker 1: see that that that um that guidance uh beam is

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Speaker 1: shaped kind of like a t. There are edges that

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Speaker 1: extend out over either side the train itself, wraps around

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Speaker 1: that track, so it keeps it at the optimal distance

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Speaker 1: away from the magnets and keeps it from you know,

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Speaker 1: going too far away from it. And the magnets in

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Speaker 1: this case are set north to south so that they

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Speaker 1: attract one another. So the magnet are on the underside

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Speaker 1: of the tea all right, So the you have magnets

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Speaker 1: that are along the guidance rail that are on the

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Speaker 1: underside of the T, and then on the train, the

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Speaker 1: magnets are at the point that wrap underneath the T,

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Speaker 1: so those magnets are attracting each other. And what happens

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Speaker 1: is the magnets on the T are pulling against the

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Speaker 1: magnets that are on the train, which lifts the train

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Speaker 1: off the the rail. So you've got a floating train. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The big advantage of this train over um other systems

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Speaker 1: is that you do not need wheels for this train.

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Speaker 1: It'll it'll just pull the train up once you start it.

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Speaker 1: And then you use an electro magnetic field to push

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Speaker 1: and pull the train down the track. So you know,

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Speaker 1: you use a opposite opposite magnetic field to pull the

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Speaker 1: train towards the front, use a identical magnetic field to

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Speaker 1: the train along the back to push it, and you

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Speaker 1: alternate the the pulsor the electro magnet magnets in order

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Speaker 1: to maintain this wave and to accelerate the wave because

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Speaker 1: when you first start, you wouldn't start slowly. Ah, it

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Speaker 1: tends to be pretty christi um so yeah, you've got

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Speaker 1: this traveling field. That's what moves the train down the

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Speaker 1: track and U and it's it's pretty cool. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's a neat way of doing it. It's um not

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Speaker 1: that you know. Some trains in Europe use this. And

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Speaker 1: then there's another style called the electro dynamic suspension train

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Speaker 1: e d S, and these are suspended above the guide way,

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Speaker 1: but instead of using the attractive force of magnets to

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Speaker 1: pull the train toward this guidance column, it's using repulsive

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Speaker 1: the repulsive part of magnets. So it's north to north

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Speaker 1: yet not like that, but north to north. So so

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Speaker 1: in other words, you don't have the t there anymore.

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Speaker 1: You still have the guidance rail, but now the magnets

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Speaker 1: are set along the the side of the track, so

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Speaker 1: on either side of the guidance rail on the bottom.

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Speaker 1: And then you have magnets along the bottom of the

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Speaker 1: train and they repel one another, so the train will

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Speaker 1: float above the track that way. Now, and these you

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Speaker 1: tend to need a uh wheels, And once you reach

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Speaker 1: a certain speed then you start to see the train

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Speaker 1: actually lift off, so the wheels are needed at slower speeds.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, the companies that use this suggest that

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Speaker 1: perhaps this is a safer system because should the entire

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Speaker 1: system lose power, then the train would come to a

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Speaker 1: gradual stop with these wheels, so you wouldn't have a

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Speaker 1: jarring crash, which you know, in general terms as far

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Speaker 1: as we're concerned, and travel is a bad thing, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's not so much the traveling, it's stopping at the

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Speaker 1: end there you go. So uh yeah. They the older

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Speaker 1: electrodynamic suspension trains used cryogenically cooled super conducting magnets. And

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Speaker 1: the reason for that is what I was saying before.

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Speaker 1: When you cool down an electro magnet, you reduce resistance,

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Speaker 1: so you make it a much more efficient system because

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Speaker 1: you know, resistance means that you're losing a lot of

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Speaker 1: energy due to heat. So by cooling this really really low,

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Speaker 1: you've actually reduced the resistance within the system itself, makes

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Speaker 1: it very efficient, does make it very expensive is not

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Speaker 1: cheap too super cool stuff because you have to get

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Speaker 1: hold of pretty rare elements in some cases in order

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Speaker 1: to get the electromantics really cold. Now you're not getting

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Speaker 1: them as cold as say, in a particle accelerator like

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Speaker 1: the large Hadron collider. They use liquid helium to get

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Speaker 1: those electri o magnet magnets as cold as they possibly can,

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Speaker 1: So they're just they're just a little bit over zero

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Speaker 1: kelvin where you have no molecular movement at all. Um,

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Speaker 1: they don't need liquid helium in these systems, doesn't need

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Speaker 1: to be quite that cold, so they probably use something

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Speaker 1: moral on lines of liquid nitrogen, which does not get

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Speaker 1: as cold as liquid helium does. Now. Uh. Then eventually

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Speaker 1: that system started to get replaced by the permanent magnet

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Speaker 1: system that you were talking about, the the the Halbach

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Speaker 1: array and uh, but it's using the same general principle

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Speaker 1: where it's using the repulsive force of the magnets in

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Speaker 1: order to make the train levitate as opposed to the

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Speaker 1: attractive force. And um, yeah, the that's the main difference

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Speaker 1: between the various kinds of maglev trains. The end result

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Speaker 1: is the same. You get the train levitating above the track,

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Speaker 1: and your speed is really limited just by how quickly

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Speaker 1: you can manipulate the the magnetic wave that pulls and

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Speaker 1: pushes the train. Yeah. So the faster you can do that,

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Speaker 1: the faster the trains going to go. Uh. And if

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Speaker 1: you eliminate air resistance by putting it in a vacuum tube,

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Speaker 1: then you've suddenly created a really really fast means of

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Speaker 1: transport which could revolutionize not just consumer travel, but also shipping. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can imagine, you know, you've you've really

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Speaker 1: cut down the amount of time it takes to get

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Speaker 1: goods from one part of the world to another, assuming

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Speaker 1: that they are connected by these these um, these tubes.

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Speaker 1: One would imagine too that the this mode of transportation

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Speaker 1: would be more environmentally efficient then using you know a

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Speaker 1: lot of fossil fuel to make this happen. It just

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Speaker 1: depends on how you're creating energy for the electromagnets exactly, exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you do have to figure out, however, how the

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Speaker 1: the electro magnet magnets themselves are powered. Um And you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're using the halback array, then you've taken some

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Speaker 1: of that out by using a lot of permanent magnets.

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Speaker 1: You still have to create some sort of propulsion, so

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Speaker 1: you're probably still using electro magnets at least to propel

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Speaker 1: the train. But but yeah, you would you know, you're

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Speaker 1: not using you're not necessarily burning the same amount of

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Speaker 1: electricity that you would need or creating the same amount

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Speaker 1: of electricity you would need in order to power us

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Speaker 1: an electric train. Um. Now, there are other things that

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Speaker 1: we need to talk about as far as vacuum trains go,

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Speaker 1: like how do you create the vacuum? Uh? Now, you

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Speaker 1: would need some sort of pumping station in order to

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Speaker 1: pump air out of the tube. And the longer the

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Speaker 1: tube is, the more pumping stations you would need. Now,

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Speaker 1: the because you can't just have it at one end, well,

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Speaker 1: you could depends on how the length of the track.

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Speaker 1: If you're talking about something that's transatlantic, I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: a pumping station on one side of the Atlantic that's

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Speaker 1: going to pump all the air out of a transatlantic

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Speaker 1: tube by itself. That would take an enormous amount of time.

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Speaker 1: That would be very inefficient. Yeah, it would take an

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Speaker 1: enormous amount of power as well. Uh. Yeah, in general,

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Speaker 1: from what I've read, it sounds like you would need

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Speaker 1: a pumping station every I'll say twenty or thirty miles

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Speaker 1: along the tube. In order to maintain the vacuum at

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Speaker 1: a reasonable rate, you would also need to have an

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Speaker 1: airlock system in place, because you're going to have every time,

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Speaker 1: every time the train pulls into a station, assuming there

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Speaker 1: are people on board who want to get on or off,

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Speaker 1: you can't have a vacuum unless unless everyone has some

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Speaker 1: sort of environmental suit on, which does not seem terribly

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Speaker 1: efficient as far as travel. Yeah, so you can't have

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Speaker 1: a vacuum at the destination or the origin of this

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Speaker 1: this trip. It would be uh, it would be antithetical

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Speaker 1: to the way we live life, mostly the breathing part. Uh. So,

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Speaker 1: what you would have to do is have an airlock

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Speaker 1: system in order for these trains to pass in and

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Speaker 1: out of the vacuum. Moreover, you would likely need to

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Speaker 1: have a series of airlocks so that the train is

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Speaker 1: passing through decreased air pressure over UM over a series

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Speaker 1: of airlock transitions, not just you know, full air pressure

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Speaker 1: to vacuum. I would have to go through a couple

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Speaker 1: of different um airlocks before it was into the true vacuum.

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Speaker 1: So that is another limitation you would need to have

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Speaker 1: that in place. Also, there's a real concern about safety.

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Speaker 1: You're talking about. A vacuum is not, like we said,

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Speaker 1: not a good place for a human to be in,

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Speaker 1: you know, just without without some form of protection, you

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Speaker 1: would you would die. So there's a real concern about

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Speaker 1: things like you would have to make sure that whatever

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Speaker 1: the train was, that it was made out of a

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Speaker 1: material that could be pressurized properly and that would be

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Speaker 1: really um resistant to wear and tear, because even the

417
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Speaker 1: smallest fault in so device could mean disaster. He had

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Speaker 1: a crack open up in one of those things, then

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Speaker 1: suddenly everything would be blown out into the vacuum, not

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Speaker 1: sucked out, blown out. Sorry, I was thinking about a movie, um,

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Speaker 1: and so uh that that's what we call catastrophic failure.

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Speaker 1: That would be terrible even I'm sorry, go ahead, I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say, even though that uh, from what I

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Speaker 1: understand that these vactorines would not necessarily be in a

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Speaker 1: full vacuum, um, it would it would be close enough

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Speaker 1: to cause you know, concern in that department. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you would also have to have, um, a concern about

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Speaker 1: the propulsion system. You would want there to be plenty

429
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: of fail safes there so that if you're if you're

430
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: traveling at something like per hour, Uh, you need to

431
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: make sure the system is reliable in that it's going

432
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 1: to accelerate and decelerate at a reasonable rate so that

433
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 1: anyone inside is not going to be um harmed by that.

434
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: And also you need to have a good way of

435
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: making sure that you're not going to have some sort

436
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: of catastrophic failure where, um, perhaps the power is lost

437
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: halfway through and then you have a train stuck in

438
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 1: a vacuum between Europe and North America. Yeah, I'm I'm

439
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: sure that if this comes closer to reality, there will

440
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: be disaster movies in which people get stuck in the

441
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: train or a terrorist. They'll they'll talk about a terrorist

442
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: plot to blow up the tubes or something like that.

443
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: People will be streaming. Can you imagine traveling in a

444
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,959
Speaker 1: tube where you can't you don't even know where you are.

445
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 1: It would have to walls would have to be very thick, right, Yeah,

446
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: you could theoretically have thick walls that are also transparent,

447
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: but if you're traveling through a tube, odds are there's

448
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 1: not a whole lot to look at. So um, Also

449
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: that speed you'd be like, hey, look, it's a never mind,

450
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 1: you just missed a whatever that was. Um, I mean

451
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: you could set it up so that, you know, you

452
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: could design the tubes so that they play out some

453
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: sort of animated scene when you travel by a certain speed.

454
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: It would be really interesting to do that. Um. But

455
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: at anyr rate. Uh, yeah, you're probably not gonna have

456
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: any windows, um, at least not traditional ones. You might

457
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: have like some sort of screens that could display whatever

458
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: you want on them, so that you would have, you know,

459
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: the facsimile of windows. So it's very for the claustrophobic

460
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: among us. It would be a terrifying ordeal. You're in

461
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: a tube where there's very little, if any air. Uh,

462
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: you are in a train that's not moving. You have

463
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: no idea where anyone else is. I mean, you might

464
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 1: be able to I'm sure they would have communication systems

465
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: on board, but it would be a pretty harrowing experience

466
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: should something go wrong. Uh, and you know it's it's

467
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: It's definitely one of those issues where the more you

468
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: think about, the more you like. There is a lot

469
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: of points of failure that would need to be addressed

470
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 1: before anyone would feel comfortable writing this system. Now that

471
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: being said, a lot of us travel by air a lot,

472
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: and the more you think about traveling by air, the

473
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,719
Speaker 1: more you realize, Wow, we really had to overcome a

474
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: lot of problems in order to make this safe and reliable.

475
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: And yet we've done it. And so I'm not saying

476
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 1: that's outside the realm of possibility. I'm not even saying

477
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: that it's going to be uh as difficult as say,

478
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: figuring out how to get a person into outer space

479
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: and back safely. But it's it's one of those things

480
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: where you know, I could see why people would be

481
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: nervous about getting on one right right. Well, you know,

482
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: if we've figured out how to travel by air, you'd

483
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: figure out that we'd be able to figure out how

484
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: to travel by lack of air. Um and uh your breath.

485
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: It's actually interesting that you should mention outer space because

486
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: one of the apple cations for this technology. There There

487
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: already are maglev trains out there. They're not predominantly maglev trains,

488
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: but you know there are there are some, and there're

489
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: people who are predicting that vacuum trains will be along

490
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: within the next ten or so years, maybe a little longer.

491
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: But they're also talking about the possibility that vacuum trains

492
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: could be used to launch space missions. Um, which would

493
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: mean that you need to point them vertically instead of

494
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: horizon only. Let's see, here's the thing about electro magnets.

495
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: They can work that way. Yes, it doesn't matter if

496
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: it's horizontal or vertical. It just needs the magnetic force

497
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: that you're generating, just needs to overcome whatever whatever forces

498
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: are holding it back. So you know, in in a

499
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: regular maglev train that would include things like air resistance,

500
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: and a maglev train that's vertical, it would include gravity. Well,

501
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: it would be sort of like a giant vacuum train

502
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: gun into space. So so there'd be a solid too,

503
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: extending from the surface of the Earth up into at

504
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: least the reaches of low orbit. Dr James Powell has

505
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: a group called Star Tram. It's the Star Tram Project

506
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: and uh, you can visit their website. Um, look look

507
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: it up, thinking I think it could have their their picture.

508
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: I'll show I'll hold it up to the microphone so

509
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: that you all can see it. But yes, he is

510
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: proposing that they create a giant launch system, and you know,

511
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: there would be a tube it wouldn't be exactly vertical. Okay,

512
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: it's it's actually at an angle, as you know, I'm

513
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: showing Jonathan right now. But yeah, they're they're saying that

514
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: it could be proposed sort of a space elevator with

515
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: a vacuum train. That would be the weirdest thing to

516
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: see in the distance. Oh, I'm sure it would just

517
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: a lot stretching up into the sky, even if it's

518
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: even not necessarily vertical, but what a weird I imagine

519
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: it would be very expensive fan and can you imagine

520
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: a tube that heavy being supported by you know, there

521
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: would be a lot of structure underneath it to hold

522
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: it in place. So clearly that would also be another

523
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: one of those things that you can imagine being a

524
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: target for someone who wants to cause a lot of mayhem,

525
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: or or a target for someone who is flying a

526
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: plane nearby, an unintentional target watch out for this sort

527
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: of thing. I mean, I would imagine it would It

528
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: would definitely affect things like like flight routing and things

529
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: like that. But yeah, it's also, um it's similar to

530
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: our our episode on space elevators. Yeah, well you had

531
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: a very similar discussion about that. But they say that

532
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: they proposed that it could be able to launch three

533
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: thousand tons of material into orbit for less than forty

534
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: dollars per kilogram. That's um and you know, and we've

535
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: talked about how that's a big deal because fuel costs

536
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: for getting a vehicle into orbit is um. I mean,

537
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: they're they're really really expensive. So that makes it very

538
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: uh expensive to get any any particular material out into space.

539
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: You know, you figure a craft is able to carry

540
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: x amount of tons of material and it and it

541
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: costs x amount to get the vehicle into orbit. Then

542
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: you figure, you know, you divide it up and you're like, wow,

543
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: that's really expensive freight right there. Yeah. Well, and and

544
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: it takes all that preparation time, it takes fueling up.

545
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: As we know very well that that uh you know,

546
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: can cause explosive problems if there are any flaws at all,

547
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: um risking life and property. So you know, the idea

548
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: of space elevators or vacuum trains to get things in

549
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: orbit might be a more efficient and more reliable way

550
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: to do that. But uh yeah, that's there are some

551
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: serious technological challenges there to be overcome, but fascinating to

552
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: think about. Nonetheless, yeah, definitely and you know, it's whether

553
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: we'll see this or not. I'm a little more skeptical.

554
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: And the reason why I'm skeptical, can't imagine why. Here's

555
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: the reason I'm skeptical at least that we'll see it

556
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: in the United States. Uh. And the reason being is

557
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: not because of the danger, but because it's a massive

558
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: undertaking that would cost lots of money, although according to

559
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: some analysts, not as much as you would imagine. Some

560
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: are argue that it would be more efficient than other

561
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: versions or or as the same expense as it would

562
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,239
Speaker 1: be for um, other kinds of high speed rail. Well,

563
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: the United States has not been very good at at

564
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: implementing high speed rail in general. I mean, the fastest

565
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: train we have is slow compared to the trains in

566
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: Europe and in Asia. Um and and it's just one

567
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: of those things that it's sort of become an afterthought.

568
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: I mean, trains built this nation into what it is.

569
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: You know, before the trains, we had very little unity

570
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: as a nation, and then the trains really brought us

571
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: together in a way that no other technology had. However,

572
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: they're they've sort of haven't changed in the last century

573
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: or so. I haven't there haven't been a huge number

574
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: of developments. There has been the switch over to electrical

575
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: trains versus coal powered trains or things like that, but

576
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: but in general, they have not really advanced that much. Uh.

577
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 1: And the fact that I it's been so, the fact

578
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: that we have not seen a lot of movement in

579
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: the high speed train, yeah, well, the we haven't seen

580
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 1: a lot of of development in the high speed train

581
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: arena tells me that while the interest is definitely there,

582
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: and while there are people who are crying out for

583
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: this sort of thing, it hasn't reached the critical mass

584
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: necessary to put it into action. There are a lot

585
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,479
Speaker 1: of political issues at stake, economic issues, um. And it's

586
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 1: just one of those things where I don't see that

587
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: clearing up. I see the political process taking longer than

588
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: ten years. The technology, I have no doubt up by

589
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: ten years we would be able to do this. We could,

590
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: We could implement something like this today if we dedicated

591
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: our resources to it. Politically, I just don't see it

592
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 1: happening within ten years now. It might happen in Europe

593
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: and Asia, where train travel has become a very important

594
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 1: way of getting around and it has been that way

595
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: for for generations. But they have continued to invest in

596
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 1: it and to continue developing and innovating in that space,

597
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: whereas in the United States the focus shifted dramatically toward

598
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: automobile industry. Well, yeah, the Americans love their cars. Yeah.

599
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: Now if we were uh, I mean, I would love

600
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: to be proved wrong way this. I would love that

601
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 1: in ten years we have high speed trains that connect

602
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: the various uh staies together. For one thing, it could

603
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: help reduce air traffic congestion, It could make you know,

604
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: it could be a viable alternative to taking a flight somewhere.

605
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: So the more choices of consumer have has I maintained

606
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: that the more choices you have, the better off you are.

607
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: Um and and I just think it'd be kind of cool.

608
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: I still don't know that I would be a volunteer

609
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: on the first first manned trip of a maglev vacuum train.

610
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um, I guess it would depend on

611
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: what I had planned later in the week. Yeah, just

612
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: something really exciting. I'd be like, you know, no, I

613
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 1: just don't put a lot of rold coins in there,

614
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: you know. That was that was one of the first

615
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: things I thought about when I thought vacuum train. I

616
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: was thinking about the pneumatic tubes that they used the

617
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: bank drive through. Yeah, um, which you know, it would

618
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: be sort of a similar effect, you know. The first thing,

619
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: the first thing I thought was the tubes that the

620
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,439
Speaker 1: characters travel around and in Futurama. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

621
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: although clearly you wouldn't be able to use a complete

622
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 1: vacuum because you know, that would just be yeah, i'd

623
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: just be a corpse delivery system. Really, once you get

624
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: down to it. Yeah, not not pleasant. So, um, I

625
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: hope we didn't bore you, Steff with this podcast. Uh this, uh,

626
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 1: but you know, it's really kind of a last time.

627
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: He's gonna let me pick a topic. Yeah, you're dead

628
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: right about that. Um, So we're going to wrap this up. Guys.

629
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: It's a really cool idea. It's a neat way of

630
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: thinking about transportation in the future, although we may never

631
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: see it come to pass. But if you guys have

632
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: any topics you would like us to talk about, whether

633
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: they are transportation related or has something you know completely

634
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 1: disconnected from transportation, let us know. Send us an email

635
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: or at this this tech stuff at Discovery dot com,

636
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: or send us a message on Facebook or Twitter. Are handled.

637
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 1: There is tech stuff H. S W and Chris and

638
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: I will talk to you again really soon for more

639
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Is it stuff

640
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: works dot Com brought to you by the reinvented two

641
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: thousand twelve Camray. It's ready. Are you