WEBVTT - Ep. 429: Wrastling Gators 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.320 This is a me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:17.640 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear. Listening to huntcast, 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:23.360 you can't predict anything presented by first Light, creating proven 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:27.880 versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear. 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:35.879 For every hunt first Light, go farther, stay longer, All right, Everybuddy. 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:39.800 In the Animals of Sexy Animal podcasts, of which we've 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:45.599 done many, this one takes the cake. The MYSTERI Well, 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.040 we're gonna be exploring the mysterious family of what was 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:54.480 it family? H Yeah? Order the order of Crocodilian Crocodilia Yeah, 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.280 meaning we're gonna focus on the American alligator in the 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:03.560 American crocodile sure with Chris Murray of Southeastern Louisiana University 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:05.440 also does a lot of like you, also do a 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:07.560 lot of little TV stuff. I did some stuff for 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:11.360 Animal Plant in a while back. Yanni saw you gator wrestling. Yep, 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.560 it happens. Part of the job, dude, I got some 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:16.720 gator questions for you. Man, let's do it. I'm gonna 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:21.960 stump you with some basics, good studies. Check this out 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:27.840 his expertise. Now you got so many things stacked in here. 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.240 That is it really uh fair to say it's expertise 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:34.560 depends on what you're looking at. Well, I'm told I'm 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:41.600 looking at comparative morphology yep. Check, physiological ecology check, Eco 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:48.280 toxicology check. That's got to be like um um contaminants yep, 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.400 building up in animals yep. So eco talk like why 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:53.680 how if you eat too much TUNEA, your hands go 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:55.560 numb and you can't remember why you called your friend? 0:01:55.800 --> 0:02:00.400 Exactly like that eco toxic with alligators. Oh so withinligators, 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:04.040 they they stored that shit up. Oh yeah, and they're 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.120 really good at letting us know what's out there in 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:10.800 the ecosystem. Yeah, I'll go on evolution. I'll buy that. 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:18.680 Biogeography in part philosophy of biology. Oh that's my jam. Yeah, 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:22.639 we could talk about that herpetology. I'll buy that originally 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:24.720 from New York City. I have a hard time buying that. 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:28.720 And still a drummer in the band called the Clado Jams. 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:32.040 I don't know clayto jams yep. I wish that wasn't 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.200 brought up, but I guess it was Crane put in 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.320 the notes. Yeah, but you don't know because, as Yannie 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:39.959 likes to point out to every single person that walks 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:41.840 in the door, you don't get to see the notes 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:48.000 that comfortable. I'm so explained it because all of us 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.560 would be looking at this document besides you. But then 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.119 not to worry. It's better that way. Joined it also 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:55.959 by Yannis, but tell us Currant of course is here. 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:00.320 Wild Phil on the keyboards, and uh we call it 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.560 a little thing you got down there film just a 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.760 soundboard sound boy. Yeah, I'll take a wild field though. 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:11.440 And Brodie Henderson is here. This is a quick promotion 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:13.639 something I didn't even know about until right now. Our 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:15.760 guests still doesn't know about because he can't see the notes. 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:22.600 Mark Kenyon's Working for Wildlife Tour, Mark Kenyon, how thanks 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.800 for letting me know, Buddy Yanni wanted to go. He 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:29.000 didn't know about it, Mark Kenyon, says Mark kennyon a 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:31.480 very Mark Kenyon from Wired to Hunt. I've put together 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.480 something called the Working for Wildlife Tour, which is great. 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.560 That's me editorializing back to Mark to help bring attention 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:43.240 to public land volunteer days by way of participating in 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.960 promoting and documenting six of these events across the country. 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.040 So this is people. This is uh, you don't need 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.840 to be one, but I'm guessing a lot of hunters 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:56.240 and anglers and maybe just other folk getting together to 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:04.280 do working for wildlife work on public lands. Okay, the 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.680 first event kicked off in Massachusetts. Over the rest of 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:11.640 the year, they got him coming up in Michigan, Idaho, Missouri, Mississippi, 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.119 and Kentucky. If you want to help out how they're 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:17.840 gonna find his link? Rin Okay, you know what, like, 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:20.360 can you put it in the notes? Yeah, I'll put it. 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.240 I'll put the link in the show notes. But you 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.400 can also go to the meat Eator website and uh, 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:31.320 let's see, you can search yeah, working for wildlife in 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:32.760 this in the little search bar on the meat eater 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:35.440 dot com. Yeah. So if you're on Spotify right and 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.120 you go, um, you're looking at media podcasts and you're 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.000 thinking what you want to listen to, and you see like, oh, 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.960 that's a clever title. Um. If you keep reading beyond 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:47.039 the clever title, you'll find the link too if you 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:54.039 want to participate again. Massachusetts already been mopped up, but Michigan, Idaho, Missouri, Mississippi, 0:04:54.080 --> 0:05:00.719 and Kentucky public land users getting together to volunteer to 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:06.080 do wildlife work on public lands. Also still out, still 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:12.599 coming our brand new title Catch Crayfish Coump Stars, available 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.880 for pre order now ships in June. Again it is enacted. 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:20.320 How many activities are in there, Brodie hundred No, I 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:28.720 think it's night around eighty total activities to get kids 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:33.559 engaged with involved and educated about the outdoors, educated about 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:37.320 hunting and fishing and wildlife, educated about gardening, preparing foods 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:43.680 in the home, celestial navigation, making various weapons, everything you 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:47.360 need to raise to raise a smart engaged kid who 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:49.159 I like to point out has kind of a raw 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:54.640 edge to him. Catch Crayfish Coump Stars. We just found 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:58.040 out about some hoser on Amazon selling of fake which 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.560 I didn't know till this morning is very common um, 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:02.840 and I don't even think they go after him. I 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:07.719 think they just shut him down. I want to know 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:09.919 if you get an actual book or if you just 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.520 send money and just never see anything. My wife said 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.960 that one time there was a guy who had somehow 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:19.560 printed off and was selling my book, but it was 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.320 a spiral bound copy of one of my books. He's 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.760 just like making him in his kitchen. This guy's name 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:29.880 is Oh, well, it's probably not his actual name, Robert G. Burgoyne. Yeah, 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.800 get his ass him. Yeah, don't buy that one. You 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.680 know what happened last night. That's how we got a 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:42.160 sixty two pound beaver over the weekend. So he had 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.200 this beaver had I'm not kidding you, in the back 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:51.000 of his skull. He had a mushroomed, a perfectly mushroomed 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:56.440 twenty two round mushroomed against the back of its skull. 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:02.760 The way mushroomed that dude had to be like got him. Yeah, 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:06.040 didn't like just through the high land like land against 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.039 the skull. I said, I'm gonna save it. It's like, well, 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:12.560 I already did save it, perfectly mushroomed lead twenty two 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.600 round baked against the back of its skull. But was 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:20.559 there any cracks in the skull or just the Yeah, nothing, 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:24.760 just an annoyance to that big beaver. Yeah, you didn't 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:26.920 imagine that dude all day. It was like, I swear 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:34.440 I got him right in the head. Uh. Oh. So 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:36.680 to get the book, go on Amazon wherever you buy books. 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:38.080 You know, in the old days, you get in trouble 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.160 for sending people to Amazon because other bookstores to get annoyed. 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.200 So go wherever you buy books, call your local friendly bookstore. 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.920 If you have a local bookstore, that'd be a good idea, 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:51.360 and tell me you want the book. It releases in June. 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.760 So we're gon we're gonna talk a lot more about 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:58.320 it and do some stuff. But um, I become intensely 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.880 interested having three kids in mine, I become intensely interested 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:07.800 in making sure I expose them um to the outdoors. 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.120 And two issues about wildlife management. And if you know, 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.360 if they grow up and become total city slickers, at 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:14.040 least know they got that floating around the back of 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:18.760 their head. Uh, Carmen, right, we should we talk to 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:22.480 Carmen now man, we had on a quite a few 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.080 What was that episode called Krin Do you remember when 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:29.000 we had Carmen van Bianchion. It was called Split and Delivered, 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:34.679 episode four thirteen. If you go back to the if 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:36.920 you go back to the episode called Split and Delivered, Oh, 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:43.040 Krann on the point of that beaver with the yep, Um, 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:44.720 you know what I say, if I keep I heard 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.439 about this and I was gonna bring it to you, 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:50.240 is have you heard like that? You just take those 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.680 feet and give them to those big ass back feet 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.400 from Chew Toys for dogs. No, I had no idea 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.640 people do that. There's a lot of gold, but it's 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.680 like how much better to salt it, preserve it and 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.360 make like a pendant out of it. Yeah, I had 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.320 something I was saving for you too. I got anything 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:09.280 to give you. I think I gotta right here, Hormett. 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:19.920 I'm so excited to see what this is, Steve YETI 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:27.400 el Camino bag where there's beaver hats best? Oh no, yeah, okay, 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:31.800 I'll find it. Um, let's get let's get Karmen. Oh. 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:33.680 So if you go back to the episode, um, a 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:38.000 few episodes back, I'll see an episode called Splitting Delivered 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.160 in which up top. In that episode we spoke with 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:45.280 frequent podcast guests. We've kind of tracked her through her 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:48.920 her career. I don't want to say her young career, 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.800 but yeah, like at her I don't know, I think 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:54.920 she's still in her young career. Yeah, it's pretty you know, 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.120 she's just getting going as a body. Yeah, it's been fun. 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:58.839 So we've had Karmen and I don't know, four or 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.960 five times as she's gone through like tech positions and 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.520 now she's very established with Home Range is a home 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:10.280 Range Wildlife. She came on the show and she has 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:15.199 started with some colleagues or her they started a nonprofit 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:20.040 wildlife research organization and they are working on a project 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:27.719 where they're studying how links are using burned off landscapes 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:32.240 so successional forests coming in after these mega wildfires that 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:36.400 we have in the west. Now, how links use those landscapes? 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.079 Are those landscapes helpful? The links? Like, what how to 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:43.840 links interact with this new emerging ecosystem out there that's 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.560 coming in the back end of fires. But one of 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:50.240 the big things befuddling their efforts to get some links 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:55.960 Radio Collared was having a bunch of snowmobiles that were 0:10:55.960 --> 0:11:01.000 like older than Carmen. Carmen came on the show and 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.760 she had put together a way to help her nonprofit 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:09.880 raise money for snowmobiles. And my god, did you guys 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:16.200 um really come forth in a huge way. Carmen's embarrassed 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:21.319 to admit how much money they raised. Yeah, let's get 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:22.640 it on the line. Let's get it on the line. 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:24.160 And we're just gonna do a quick quick check in 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.120 because they've been they've been whacking the links you. I 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.360 don't think you say that when your radio collar. Probably 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:32.920 not a good way to put it, all right, Carmons. 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.640 So you guys, since you, since you've been on, you 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:43.000 and your colleagues at Home Range Wildlife have gotten three links. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.480 and you're trying to get you're trying to get four. Well, 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.320 that would be amazing because we've got four collars, but 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.320 we've already, um one was my goal, So to have 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:58.760 three is just awesome. We're already now because really one 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.559 collar left, we've got a hole more night so their 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.920 traps open that. Well, we'll try for a miracle to 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.800 get all four out, but otherwise we'll be you know, 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.319 getting more callers for next year. And so everything now 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.400 is just sort of a cherry on top. What's the 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.880 farthest that one of those links as strayed from the 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:23.280 capture site yet? Oh? I haven't measured that, but not 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:28.040 very far, not going very far, yeah, which is kind 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.480 of cool. I mean totally anecdotal at this point. But um, 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.000 and this, you know, my thinking may change down the 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.040 road as we learn more. But one thing people have 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.360 feared is that because they're living in what's a regenerating 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.720 burn that they in theory might have really large home 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:47.880 ranges because the habitat quality could be poor. So to 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.720 see that they're not covering a whole lot of ground 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:55.120 could be a good sign that the habitats richer than 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.920 people have supposed got it. And then you can you 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:00.720 give us quick so that we'll be update like where 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.800 you guys are at on snow and bills. Oh man, 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:08.480 we're in a good spot. So we have since that 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:13.280 since we were on we got a nice twenty twenty 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:19.120 one uh Polaris that has been doing really well. And 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.079 then we also were able to purchase two brand new 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:28.000 Scudo expeditions that have just been awesome. And we've already 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:31.040 put almost two thousand miles on those brand new sleds. 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:35.800 Really well. Oh yeah, we're going at least fifty miles 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.360 a day, sometimes one hundred, So damn really do a 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.480 lot of writing. Yeah, oh yeah, man, I want to 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:47.320 switch jobs. Man. Then uh, you guys, you guys got 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:50.640 to do trailer for him too. We gotta do trailer 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:54.800 and enclosed trailer, which for where we live that there 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.920 are tons of mormots, uh and mice and stuff. That's 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.199 gonna be really nice for in the summer for storing them. 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.280 So we feel like we've protected our investment. And yeah, 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.480 we're feeling pretty pimped out. That is great. I appreciate 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:08.280 the check in. I know that, man, I had a 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:09.839 lot of friends after you came out. I had a 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.719 lot of friends text me their little receipt things from 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:18.080 having participated in the from having participated in the adopted 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.920 set thing. And I know that I've been dealing with 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.120 Ford Well krimsmen deal with forward over at first Light 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.400 to get the winners set up with their cold weather gear, 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.680 of their cold weather collection of First Light gear. So 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:34.680 I appreciate it coming back on and check and then 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:36.440 was I'm glad you guys got the snow bill problem 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.480 taken care of, and I hope you catch the fourth links. 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:45.200 Thanks well, we just appreciate so much you and your listeners. 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:49.200 The outpouring has been incredible, so I just want to 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.960 thank everybody for your support. It's been super fun. I 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:55.760 got one request for our you don't need to print it, 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.800 but can you make us for our podcast studio a 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.840 graphic that has all the lines running around when you 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.239 eventually look at all the data. That's cool. Oh yeah, 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.760 that'd be awesome, Like, so a different color for each 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.080 link and show how they're zooming around. Yeah yeah, I'd 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.320 like that. Um yeah, and then when one dies, you're 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.760 gonna go find out what happened to it, right, yep? Yeah, 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:24.800 I want the skull off that links. Is that possible? 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:26.880 Tell you what. That's one of the skulls that I 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.640 don't have in my collection, So we might have to fight. Well, 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.920 I have the second one. I'm not wishing. I'm not 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.000 like wishing ill upon your links, you know. I hope 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.920 they have. I hope they die old age someday. Oh hey, 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.360 I gotta tell you. I gotta tell you a tip, 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:43.840 and then then I'm gonna let you go. All right. 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.920 We had that bobcat at that Bobcat expert on Mrcer Longing, 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.200 and I think that you later had some communication with 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:52.800 Mercer about because he's he's he does a lot of 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:57.280 cage he catches bobcats for research and also the fur markets. 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.440 He the other day told me about how they were 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:05.680 out doing the telemetry. I think they still do that. 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.360 Oh yeah, telemetry on a Bobcat and they lost the 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.880 signal and he thought it must have went into a 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.920 cave or something. So he started wailing on a predator 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:19.840 calling Alsen got the signal back huh, Like he pulled 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.680 it out, he drew it, and he drew it out 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:24.600 of his spot enough to pick the signal back up. 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:27.960 All right, send me that post. Yeah, you don't need 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:29.240 to print it. We'll print it, but send me my 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:35.000 poster and at school. All right, thank you very much. 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:39.160 You're welcome back on the show anytime. All right, Mike 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:45.200 m see you guys. Thank you everybody so much. Okay, Uh, 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.280 speaking of capturing and collar and stuff, this is a 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:54.320 crazy story. So they just got the first ever wolverine captured, collared, 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.560 and released in Utah. So basically, like, um, I don't 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:00.760 know if Cowwell Print did her math on this. She 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.680 thinks it was. Basically, while we were recording our wolverine 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:09.840 episode with with Rebecca Waters Waters wols Waters, a wolverine 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:15.000 was seen in Utah, Okay, only the eighth confirmed sighting 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:18.480 in the state of Utah since nineteen seventy nine, the 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.680 first one ever captured biologists in Utah. This thing had 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.320 had a busy morning. He had killed how many sheep? 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:33.120 I think it was it eighteen? This guy killed this 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.919 wolverine comes in and kills eighteen sheep in a morning. 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.480 What's the term for that, when a predator goes surplus killer? 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.359 Yea wait, let me make sure I didn't make a mistake. Yeah, eighteen. 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:48.360 What to ask the croc guy if they do surplus killer, 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.840 if gatters do surplus killing crocs and gators, let's ask 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:53.960 him right now, right now. You know what surplus killing is, 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.600 killing more than you can eat. They get a little 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.240 carried away. Yeah, they're getting a pen full of llamas 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:03.760 like a mountain lion. It's always it's always domestic animals. Yeah, 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.880 I don't really see that at all in alligators and crocodiles. 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.640 I mean, they pretty much have a hard enough time 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:14.720 eating what they actually are able to acquire. Shrimp and stuff. 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:16.800 I mean they eat a lot of those, but if 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.240 they grab a hole to something pretty big, it takes 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:23.159 them a long time to actually, you know, actually do 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:27.399 anything with that meal. Like a deer, So if he 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.920 kills killing, if he kills a deer and he stashes 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:32.840 it and another deer shows up, he's not gonna grab 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.560 that one and stash it too. Probably not. I mean, 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.120 they'll typically like launch at a deer from the water's edge, 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.400 and they'll stick it in the water and then stick 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.520 it under a log under the water until the meat 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.280 gets a little bit a little bit easier, and then 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.280 have a snack for a month or two. They blow 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.680 a lot of energy killing one large thing, tons of ends, 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:59.120 so they can't kill another one, you know, right, Yeah, 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.880 so this guy. So they go in there, they want 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.600 to catch it, put a collar on it. They're going 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:07.920 to clean up all the dead sheep. Then they set 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:12.280 two barrel traps with hind quarters and later catch the wolverine. 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:17.000 Where where where was this? Randolph? Utah? Jannat used to 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.520 live in Utah? Where's that? Never heard of ring in 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:24.840 rich County. I don't know where that is. Oh they 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.560 even they brought it out of the wild and into 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:33.160 a yea lab of sorts and to do the study, 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.879 do the work up. Three to four years old, twenty 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.800 eight pounds, forty one inches. Tip of nose, the tip 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:46.760 of tail forty one's big. Because Rebecca, I remember, he's 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:51.280 writing line, he's writing line, He's cute. After the um, 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.320 after the aired, I had a lot of friends sending 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:57.720 me like um pictures of wolverines that they are in 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.000 the news or that they found or their buddy found. 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:02.280 And then I'd be like, what's up with that? He goes, well, 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.560 that was eight years ago. I'm like, oh, okay, cold, 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.320 it's cold trail now Randolph looks like it's about eighty 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:12.359 ish miles northeast of Salt Lake City. Thanks Phil. So 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.679 that's pretty cool and interesting. Um, okay, this is the 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:19.600 absolute final word. Krin thinks it's perhaps the final word. 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:23.320 It's the final word. That's the final word. I'd refried beans. 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:30.240 I grew up, someone wrote in He says he's got 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.800 a potentially controversial take on the whole subject. He grew 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:35.280 up in New Mexico, but spent a lot of time 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:40.040 living in Chile. I'm thinking about switching. Switching what well, 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:45.280 I went from Iran to Iran. Oh, it's on. I'm 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.560 thinking about going from Chile to Chile. A matter of fact, 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:52.119 you already made the transition. A matter of fact that 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.520 had I was doing one of my old books. I 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:56.160 was doing a new audio because we got the audio 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.400 rights back one of my old books at the ten 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:00.280 year mark, and I had to do it. And I 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:06.480 did Chile sound a little pretentious, but um, spend some 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.920 time living in Chile. Not being a native Spanish speaker, 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:12.520 I learned to speak fluently when living in South America. 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:15.080 I believe this issue is more of a translation issue. 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:25.480 The word in Mexican Spanish is frijoles rifritos or in 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:36.080 Chilan Spanish pirotos rifritos. Am I doing semi good? Yeah? 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:40.560 The issue is The issue is the suffix re. In English, 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:44.080 this suffix means to fry again. It would be taken 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:48.440 to be fry again refried. But in Spanish this suffix 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:54.200 can mean very fried. You can add this to any 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:58.800 word in Spanish, such as beating a dead horse. Like 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:06.280 this topic, what would be goan Yanni Cabio. I don't 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:08.679 know if this is true, but when I hear refried beans, 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.880 I hear very fried beans. I don't know. I wish 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:17.439 I would need to read that. I'll buy it. You 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:22.919 don't not really, I think it makes sense very fried beans. 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:29.920 It might. I'm bad I read it guys in Texas. Now, uh, 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:32.280 I wanted to talk about this for like an hour. 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:36.960 Come on, let's just jump in and get it over with. 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:39.120 You want, okay? Yeah, it's an old story. Now it's 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:44.200 getting old. Kansas bans trail cams on public land. I 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:47.440 own trail cams. I like trail cams. I as we speak, 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:51.680 have a trail cam on public land in a place 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:53.520 that I'm gonna visit. I put it and I'm gonna 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:55.160 go on the one year mark and retrieve it. Last 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:56.520 time I did as I had forgot to turn it 0:22:56.560 --> 0:23:00.720 on all winter. I'll wonder I'd rolled my wife not 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:02.840 talking about going up getting my camera. I got in 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:04.359 the coolest spot. I'm like, man, can you wait to 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:05.840 go and get my camera. It's gonna be amazing all 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:08.000 the ships on my camera. Now I go up there, 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:13.200 I'm like, dah, hadn't turn it on. Batries are still good. 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:17.280 Now wait a minute. In Montana, can you have him 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:20.480 out on public land? You can't transmit a signal? Oh? 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:22.200 I thought you couldn't have him out on public land 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:24.440 during big games? No, I think they can't. If that's 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:28.280 the case, I'm in violation. I could be making that 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:30.840 up in my head, but I think you can't have 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:34.200 any of that transmits a signal. You're talking the wrong person. 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:35.680 You're waiting to cut this out, and I'm minded to 0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:37.720 go take my camera down. Yeah, it sounds like it. 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:42.800 For a while there's no trail cam use then it 0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:47.520 became no trail cams that transmit a signal. I thought 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.159 there was a during big game season component to it. 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:52.320 I could be wrong, Yeah, but it seems it's changed 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:57.359 every year. You can't use one that transmits a signal 0:23:57.480 --> 0:24:03.119 in any capacity toward using it to cat to process 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:07.000 taking game. That's the case. I'm gonna call a pancrats 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:12.040 and turn myself in. It's just thinking about calling him. Oh, 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:15.639 back to Kansas. I don't think that's true. Is it true? Well, 0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:19.080 we should find out. Jesus. There's not even a place 0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:22.760 I would hunt. I'm see you guys ever using for gators. Yeah, 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:25.880 we do, actually, especially around alligator nests and stuff like that. Yeah, 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:30.000 but I have no idea regarding the legalities of that 0:24:30.040 --> 0:24:35.399 where well, I'm sure for research purposes worry about it. Yeah, Okay, 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:40.080 here's the semi headline or not not, I mean, like 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:41.920 the one liner. The one liner is this. With a 0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:45.600 unanimous vote by its Game Commission, Kansas becomes the first 0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:51.040 Midwestern white tail state to impose a year round dam 0:24:52.800 --> 0:24:57.920 trull camera ban. So what was Arizonas was only partial 0:24:58.320 --> 0:25:06.480 only during well. Arizonas in Utahs was public private this 0:25:07.680 --> 0:25:12.880 they did it for private land too. Oh. I called 0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:14.720 a friend of mine. I don't want to say his 0:25:14.800 --> 0:25:16.040 name because I didn't ask me if I could say 0:25:16.040 --> 0:25:17.399 his name. I call a friend of mine who like, 0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:20.439 he does a lot of scouting for outfitters, and he 0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:23.080 finds a lot of animals, you know. And I said, 0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:26.359 I said, man, what's your take on it? He goes, 0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:29.120 I love it. I go, you like the trail cam bam, 0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:33.639 love it. He said, I'm a dinosaur. I've been in 0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:35.720 this business a long time. I've been this game a 0:25:35.760 --> 0:25:41.360 long time, and glassing, looking for tracks, looking for sheds. 0:25:41.640 --> 0:25:44.520 That's where I excel because it goes. That's how I 0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:47.359 was brought up. I learned my I learned my abilities 0:25:47.600 --> 0:25:49.679 being in the woods. Yeah, I fall on that, and 0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:51.400 he goes, and I got into it like I got 0:25:51.440 --> 0:25:54.600 into it. But for me, I think it's great. And 0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:58.200 he said, too, he saw what places like the Arizona strip. 0:25:59.440 --> 0:26:02.600 He thinks you're gonna have it's gonna This is him 0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:06.320 speaking and like him guessing, you're gonna have an improvement 0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:08.800 of an age class box because he thinks it's gonna 0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:11.080 go back to being there's bucks people don't know about, 0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:14.240 because he said in the in these areas, like where 0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:16.959 he's at, he said, it's different. He goes where you're at, 0:26:17.000 --> 0:26:19.000 there's a lot of water. He's come about Montana. There's 0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:22.560 a lot of water here. Water is the thing. Okay, 0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:26.960 all big game goes to water, and there's a finite 0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:29.600 place for them to find water. So when you get 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:33.000 in the late summer, okay or whatever, the dry dry 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:35.560 seas probably that late summer, but but pre mon soon 0:26:35.920 --> 0:26:39.160 when you go out, you're like, any deer is gonna 0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:43.360 go here, here or here. Yeah, and with cameras and 0:26:43.359 --> 0:26:47.040 and everybody knows about every deer. So he's he's optimistic 0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:49.080 that it's gonna be that there's more dear slipping through 0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:52.159 the cracks and it's going back to being like that 0:26:52.280 --> 0:26:55.400 the woodsmen find the deer and it's not and it's 0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:58.320 not a tech game. He knew a guy, he knew 0:26:58.320 --> 0:27:02.720 a guy that was running over one hundred cameras. Oh yeah, 0:27:02.720 --> 0:27:04.520 and that's common. I don't I don't think that one 0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:07.080 hundred cameras is out of the ordinary. He had two 0:27:07.080 --> 0:27:10.320 guys he talked about an outfitter that had two guys 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:15.679 on payroll that only ran cameras in searching for searching 0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:18.119 for stuff for clients. Yeah. I like the mystery of 0:27:18.119 --> 0:27:24.160 it all. So Kansas on public land there is like, 0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:26.200 this is the thing I've become aware of in places. 0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:28.160 It just kind of depends. We were in a place 0:27:28.200 --> 0:27:33.120 in Florida where it was like it was like being 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:36.159 at seven to eleven for the amount of cameras aimed 0:27:36.160 --> 0:27:39.920 at you on public land. Oh yeah, yeah, I could 0:27:40.000 --> 0:27:43.320 see it becoming. Um, people that don't want to be 0:27:43.400 --> 0:27:47.119 surveiled in photographed and do you have a sort of 0:27:47.119 --> 0:27:51.679 like expectation of privacy. But in these areas where like 0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:55.640 all the roads, all the trails are done, it like 0:27:55.760 --> 0:27:57.760 I could see that it would get on people's nerves. 0:27:57.840 --> 0:28:02.840 Oh yeah. Um. And like I said, man, I like like, 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:08.640 if it became that you couldn't, I wouldn't. Right, If 0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:14.760 you couldn't, I wouldn't, But I I did. It's fun 0:28:14.920 --> 0:28:18.119 using them. But I'm empathetic of the situation and the 0:28:18.200 --> 0:28:25.520 fact that all unanimous vote no. It'll generate some hate 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:27.600 mail because I think people will say, well, you guys 0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:29.800 get to hunt wherever you want to hunt, you're always 0:28:29.880 --> 0:28:33.320 hunting some fancy private ranch and you don't need to scout. 0:28:33.320 --> 0:28:35.520 And I'm a working man. I need these cameras to scout. 0:28:35.560 --> 0:28:38.760 But it's we hunt a lot of public land and 0:28:38.920 --> 0:28:41.680 that hunt. By having all those cameras that we had 0:28:41.720 --> 0:28:45.960 to walk by every single day multiple times, it changed 0:28:46.000 --> 0:28:49.520 the experience. Yeah, then people are like sending you messages 0:28:49.560 --> 0:28:54.320 telling you finding you and on social like Yani, people 0:28:54.360 --> 0:28:56.360 sending him messages on social being like I know where 0:28:56.360 --> 0:28:59.760 you're at. That's ridiculous. Yeah, is this you, guys? Which 0:28:59.760 --> 0:29:02.040 is that? That part? Like, I don't mind the person 0:29:02.120 --> 0:29:05.360 reaching out. I try to answer to all the dms 0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:09.480 on Instagram. That part's fine, But the experience of being 0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:12.040 out there hunting, like I like to go into the 0:29:12.040 --> 0:29:14.960 woods to be alone and be quiet and not have 0:29:20.160 --> 0:29:24.720 I think another concerned people have about these kind of 0:29:24.800 --> 0:29:30.120 laws too, is that they're coming from these UH commissions 0:29:30.160 --> 0:29:34.280 that are appointed members and perhaps some of their like 0:29:34.320 --> 0:29:36.959 there might be a non hunting angle coming from some 0:29:37.040 --> 0:29:40.480 of those commissioners, Like I've heard that in places too, 0:29:40.560 --> 0:29:43.479 like the more he can restrict use, the more here 0:29:43.480 --> 0:29:49.640 restricting hunters. You know, So three percent of Kansas is public. Okay, 0:29:50.680 --> 0:29:52.680 here's an interesting thing. Here's what one of the commissioners 0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:57.280 had to say. He said, So this is where he's 0:29:57.280 --> 0:30:00.280 going on. He's not going on. He's not he This 0:30:00.360 --> 0:30:03.600 commissioner is not speaking of the issue on a fair chase, 0:30:04.280 --> 0:30:09.560 fair take. Okay, like unfair advantage. That's not where he's 0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:14.400 going with it. Commissioner Gerald Lauber said that trail cameras 0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:19.760 cause privacy issues and give rise to conflict when used 0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:23.400 on heavily trafficed public land in Kansas. He didn't say that. 0:30:23.440 --> 0:30:26.560 Here's what he says. Quote, there are some deliterious issues 0:30:26.600 --> 0:30:29.160 when it comes to trail cameras. In some places, cameras 0:30:29.160 --> 0:30:32.120 are used to spy on other hunters, and some people 0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:36.400 recoil from seeing a camera. They're private, they don't want 0:30:36.440 --> 0:30:38.800 to have somebody take their picture and then have it 0:30:38.840 --> 0:30:43.560 on Facebook, which absolutely happens. Lawber went on to say 0:30:43.560 --> 0:30:45.840 that trail cameras were sometimes used by hunters as a 0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:49.640 means of staking claim to a particular section of public land. 0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:56.200 Bubbly Dougs got all kinds of thoughts about the whole thing. 0:30:56.240 --> 0:31:00.440 I can't I'll have to get back to. It's so 0:31:00.520 --> 0:31:02.080 much I have to. I have to dig into it, 0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:07.719 say about it. You can get mad at me, Oh 0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:11.080 you want I'm out on the Kansas Game Commission. Sure, 0:31:11.720 --> 0:31:14.320 I was reporting the facts. Dude, it's the thing I see. 0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:17.920 I see both sides. I see both sides to it. 0:31:18.760 --> 0:31:22.880 As a camera owner, I like cameras. I have a 0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:30.160 subscription m I like to putting them on beaver dams 0:31:30.160 --> 0:31:32.000 to see what all goes over the beaver dam. I 0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:35.200 like everything about them. If there was a thing where 0:31:35.240 --> 0:31:37.480 you couldn't use them, I just I don't know. I'd 0:31:37.480 --> 0:31:41.920 be like, yeah, I understand, it's not something you know 0:31:41.920 --> 0:31:44.800 what it is. It's not something. It's not something I 0:31:44.800 --> 0:31:47.920 would take up. It's not something I would take up 0:31:47.960 --> 0:31:54.360 the fight about because you can imagine, like it's easy 0:31:54.400 --> 0:31:58.200 to imagine the extreme, where the extreme being you can't 0:31:58.240 --> 0:32:01.720 walk down a trail without being photographed, which is probably 0:32:01.720 --> 0:32:03.920 the case in many places that you can't go down 0:32:03.960 --> 0:32:06.400 a path without being photographed. The guy I was talking about, 0:32:06.440 --> 0:32:08.000 I wish I could. I should have checked with them 0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:10.840 to talk about him. He said, Now every camera you 0:32:10.880 --> 0:32:14.000 find an Arizona's got a bullet hole through it. Now 0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:16.560 they're illegal people to shoot him. He said, there's still ones. 0:32:16.640 --> 0:32:17.800 Just got a band it out in the woods, but 0:32:17.800 --> 0:32:37.360 they all been shot by pistols. Wow, think about that. Hardcore. Okay, 0:32:37.360 --> 0:32:39.040 we're ready to dig in on gators, dude. I got 0:32:39.040 --> 0:32:40.959 some questions about gators. But first I want to tell 0:32:41.000 --> 0:32:45.960 you something. Do you hear about this that the Texas 0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:51.280 Zoo rescues an alligator that was stolen as an egg 0:32:52.920 --> 0:32:55.640 twenty years ago? Yeah? I did hear something about this 0:32:55.680 --> 0:32:57.600 on social media. I don't know the full story though 0:32:58.160 --> 0:33:02.360 a Texas Zoo. This is reported in the Guardian. I'm 0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:06.360 the lukewarm on the Guardian sometimes I like it. A 0:33:06.520 --> 0:33:08.840 Texas zoo said it had taken back an eight foot 0:33:08.880 --> 0:33:11.800 alligator which was stolen as an egg more than twenty 0:33:11.880 --> 0:33:18.120 years ago, then kept as a backyard pet. I mean, 0:33:18.160 --> 0:33:21.360 this is this is from Texas Parking Wildlife. A woman 0:33:21.640 --> 0:33:27.280 confessed to taking an egg from Animal World and Snake 0:33:27.360 --> 0:33:30.600 Farm Zoo near Austin. It's just a non on her 0:33:30.640 --> 0:33:38.560 for twenty for twenty that is heartbreaking. She was a 0:33:38.680 --> 0:33:41.840 volunteer at Animal Farm way back then twenty years ago, 0:33:42.160 --> 0:33:44.760 apparently stole the alligator as an egg. She put in 0:33:44.760 --> 0:33:56.920 her pocket. That's heartbreaking, heartbreaking. It's actually kind of hard 0:33:56.960 --> 0:34:00.560 to do. I can an alligator egg. It can't roll 0:34:00.920 --> 0:34:03.760 one way or another, or the embryo will die. Is 0:34:03.800 --> 0:34:05.640 that right? So she had to know what she was doing. 0:34:06.640 --> 0:34:09.440 She put her an alligator egg and incubate it long 0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:12.279 enough for it to hatch successfully. That's pretty hard to do. 0:34:13.440 --> 0:34:16.920 Maybe she learned that at the Zoo Disney movie about 0:34:16.920 --> 0:34:20.840 this lady. It's twenty years and they took it back. 0:34:21.080 --> 0:34:23.759 Is it a mature gator at that? Oh? Yeah, eight 0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:26.120 foot alligator is mature. And I could see an eight 0:34:26.200 --> 0:34:29.480 foot alligator being twenty years old, especially in captivity. Talk 0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:31.320 about being able to see two sides of a story. 0:34:31.400 --> 0:34:34.480 I could see him one the alligator bag for twenty years. 0:34:39.400 --> 0:34:44.680 It's like losing a leg. She faces misdemeanor charges for 0:34:44.840 --> 0:34:47.960 a legal possession of an egg and possession of an 0:34:48.000 --> 0:34:51.239 alligator without a permit. I mean, I get it, I 0:34:51.360 --> 0:34:59.040 get it, But but misdemeanor. Though I get it. We 0:34:59.080 --> 0:35:04.080 think about that film. You shouldn't have done it. I 0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:08.960 don't know, Okay, picture it. You shouldn't have done it, Okay, 0:35:09.640 --> 0:35:13.040 shouldn't have done it? Everybody knows that sure, does there 0:35:13.040 --> 0:35:16.040 any little part in the back of your head be like, oh, 0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:20.520 it's like losing a leg. Well, maybe she hated that alligator. 0:35:20.560 --> 0:35:22.480 I don't know. It looks like she took pretty good 0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:26.200 care of it. Twenty years. She's had that pet a 0:35:26.200 --> 0:35:29.120 lot of a lot of chickens and rats. Imagine, huh. 0:35:29.160 --> 0:35:31.279 And if she stole it as an egg, so it's 0:35:31.320 --> 0:35:36.919 like what you think, like it bonded to her. I'll 0:35:36.960 --> 0:35:43.120 take that to our guests. I have seen alligators in 0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:47.480 that are pretty well trained, So I would imagine that 0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:50.800 she would have a pretty strong emotional attachment to that animal. 0:35:50.960 --> 0:35:54.760 I'm not sure about the opposite. So he's not crying, 0:35:54.920 --> 0:36:00.480 he's not crying crocodile's years. Probably not, But would would 0:36:00.520 --> 0:36:02.799 he be when he goes back to the zoo. Is 0:36:02.800 --> 0:36:04.840 he going to be completely thrown off and out of 0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:08.440 his element now? Or gosh? I think that's tough With 0:36:08.480 --> 0:36:10.919 all crocodilians, I mean, I think they're they're really good 0:36:10.920 --> 0:36:13.680 at just sort of surviving in whatever enclosure they're in 0:36:13.840 --> 0:36:17.840 until they're no longer surviving, you know, like it'll be fine, 0:36:18.320 --> 0:36:21.440 I would imagine, But what about her? That's a different. 0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:26.440 You see, like hate New Jersey cat laters ladies, but 0:36:26.560 --> 0:36:30.640 he loved Texas ladies. Listen, if you said you can 0:36:30.680 --> 0:36:33.000 spend a weekend or the New Jersey Cat lady or 0:36:33.000 --> 0:36:36.040 a Texas gator lady, what do you say? Okay, when 0:36:36.120 --> 0:36:38.040 you put it that way. Now, I know you don't 0:36:38.080 --> 0:36:40.120 like doing this very much, Krim, but can you please 0:36:40.160 --> 0:36:44.759 get her on the show for a calling? Just a calling? Okay, 0:36:44.920 --> 0:36:47.080 it's not that I don't like doing it. I'll tell her. 0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:49.440 I said that. I know it was bad what she did, 0:36:49.520 --> 0:36:51.319 and we all know what she did was bad, but 0:36:51.360 --> 0:36:53.760 we just want to hear about how tore up she is. Okay, 0:36:54.000 --> 0:36:58.640 all right, and like what she fed it? Okay, Um, 0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:00.520 I want to go back at the beginning on gators 0:37:00.520 --> 0:37:03.120 and crocks in America. But first I want to I 0:37:03.160 --> 0:37:05.080 got to clear something up which I can't stop thinking 0:37:05.120 --> 0:37:10.440 about and talking about. I had occasion, Yannie and I 0:37:10.560 --> 0:37:15.920 drew um some pretty sweet Wildlife Management Area turkey tags 0:37:16.560 --> 0:37:19.440 in Florida this year. But I was down a few 0:37:19.520 --> 0:37:24.160 days early and I did a little tour on some 0:37:24.400 --> 0:37:28.440 public land right up against Everglades or up against the 0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:32.640 National Park. Okay, okay, So I went out the guy 0:37:32.680 --> 0:37:34.560 that has one of them big buggies. You know, the 0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:36.400 ground was dry, but we took a swamp buggy, but 0:37:36.400 --> 0:37:39.759 you could have driven into golf court golf cart. We 0:37:39.800 --> 0:37:42.000 did with a little swamp buggy tour just for gets 0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:48.040 some higgles, okay, and um in Big Cypress cool, yeah, 0:37:48.600 --> 0:37:51.239 dry as a bone. Okay, there was a canal that 0:37:51.360 --> 0:37:58.319 had water, but prior to it becoming um, prior to 0:37:58.360 --> 0:38:00.920 becoming like Big Cypress, it had been at various times 0:38:00.960 --> 0:38:05.319 grazed by cattle and people had had little homesteads out there. 0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:07.880 So some of the areas out in Big Cyper, she'll 0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:13.200 run into groves okay, like they'll be like fruit trees planted. Um, 0:38:13.239 --> 0:38:15.600 you'll see like rusted old chunks of fence, you know, 0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:18.839 hog fences like people would just kind of live and yeah, 0:38:18.920 --> 0:38:21.480 probably squashed any of those. Any that fruit that you 0:38:21.520 --> 0:38:24.279 saw hanging, We didn't find anything that was any fruit 0:38:24.320 --> 0:38:28.319 that was fruiting except for sour oranges. We're trying that 0:38:28.360 --> 0:38:32.040 bad like like some native but to see that wasn't 0:38:32.040 --> 0:38:35.240 even like native citrus. But it was in this area, 0:38:35.280 --> 0:38:38.239 so maybe someone would have just cultivated it there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:38:38.239 --> 0:38:42.560 I found grapefruit and those oranges, and it kind of 0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:45.560 it might have been passed due, but yeah, they were 0:38:45.640 --> 0:38:48.799 kind of just I don't want to say it, not 0:38:48.960 --> 0:38:52.080 merely but grainy. Just yeah, a lot of That's what 0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:53.759 I had was like that. Yeah, I mean you could 0:38:53.760 --> 0:38:55.360 eat it, but it wasn't as you know, you've just 0:38:55.400 --> 0:39:01.799 been trained up one on our sweet oranges. So at 0:39:01.840 --> 0:39:07.280 a time, someone had developed water holes for cattle, okay, 0:39:08.160 --> 0:39:11.080 And so when you're cruising around, everything's like dry as 0:39:11.120 --> 0:39:13.719 a bone. It gets wet sometimes but not right now. 0:39:13.760 --> 0:39:16.479 It's dry as a bone, and you'll see these dirt 0:39:16.520 --> 0:39:18.680 tanks and you could even see like where years ago 0:39:18.840 --> 0:39:20.759 someone had mounted all the dirt up so they'd be 0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:24.800 like a berm or an impoundment. In some water holes 0:39:25.360 --> 0:39:30.480 that I'm not shipping you are not that much bigger 0:39:30.920 --> 0:39:35.640 than this podcast studio. Okay, but there's some eight foot 0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:40.640 alligator ly in there. Yeah, I'm not surprised at all. 0:39:40.680 --> 0:39:42.640 The hell is he eating? Like, what is he doing? 0:39:43.160 --> 0:39:45.480 Probably just hanging out in water until there's a lot 0:39:45.560 --> 0:39:47.560 more of it. I mean, alligators a lot of research 0:39:47.600 --> 0:39:52.040 on alligators being really good ecosystem engineers. So when the 0:39:52.080 --> 0:39:56.120 water goes away, they will dig out a hole like 0:39:56.239 --> 0:40:00.279 that themselves that allow a lot of water or to 0:40:00.320 --> 0:40:03.680 be there for other wildlife to come and utilize. Really, 0:40:03.719 --> 0:40:06.560 so they can do that themselves and do every year. 0:40:06.880 --> 0:40:11.040 But how long can he wait before, like presumably he's 0:40:11.040 --> 0:40:16.640 sitting there thinking someday someone's gonna come get a drink yep, exactly, 0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:19.359 and I'm gonna smack it yep. And it happens all 0:40:19.400 --> 0:40:22.399 the time. But how long can it not happen before 0:40:22.400 --> 0:40:25.000 he's got a split? Yeah, Well, I don't think there's 0:40:25.000 --> 0:40:27.279 anywhere else to go, you know, for them. But I'll 0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:30.359 give you an example. So in Costa Rica, American crocodiles 0:40:30.560 --> 0:40:34.839 will estivate during the dry season and bury themselves under 0:40:34.880 --> 0:40:43.960 the mud for estivates, like try to avoid dying from 0:40:44.080 --> 0:40:49.120 lack of water or heat. Right, So, like sometimes they'll 0:40:49.120 --> 0:40:50.520 go into the woods. We don't actually know what they 0:40:50.560 --> 0:40:53.279 do in the woods. Sometimes they'll go in like these 0:40:53.280 --> 0:40:57.440 little limestone cave things, and sometimes they'll just let the 0:40:57.520 --> 0:41:00.799 mud harden over top of them, and you can be 0:41:00.880 --> 0:41:03.279 walking around they'll be under your feet. You can't see them, 0:41:03.680 --> 0:41:05.840 but they'll stay there for a couple months before the 0:41:05.880 --> 0:41:08.640 wet season returns in like early to mid May, not 0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:10.719 even a chance to eat, not a chance to eat, 0:41:10.800 --> 0:41:15.799 just hanging out waiting, So that alligator probably has a 0:41:15.800 --> 0:41:18.840 pretty good shot at being successful for however long it 0:41:18.880 --> 0:41:21.480 has to be there. The guy was with told me 0:41:21.560 --> 0:41:23.640 that he's got I can't remember what he called him 0:41:23.800 --> 0:41:26.920 caves or dens. What was he calling them? Probably wallows. 0:41:29.000 --> 0:41:31.520 He's dug out the alligator holes. Yeah, they I mean, 0:41:31.520 --> 0:41:34.440 they'll do that themselves. Talk about what that is alligator holes? 0:41:34.560 --> 0:41:37.919 Really you only see that down in South Florida where 0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:40.360 there's times of the year where there's lack of water, 0:41:40.960 --> 0:41:43.120 and there's been a lot of research on the utility 0:41:43.120 --> 0:41:48.640 of alligator holes. But they'll essentially dig out a hole 0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:51.920 that is, yeah, no bigger than this room we're in 0:41:52.000 --> 0:41:55.719 right now, and allow themselves to hang out there in 0:41:55.800 --> 0:42:00.120 water for months. And other animals need to utilize those 0:42:00.160 --> 0:42:03.600 holes as well. So that's well, he's I thought he's 0:42:03.600 --> 0:42:07.720 talking about like a like a little deep cave area. 0:42:07.760 --> 0:42:11.160 He does, that's a walloway. The alligators will dig wallows 0:42:11.239 --> 0:42:14.080 like in the sides of those holes. Yeah, and they'll 0:42:14.120 --> 0:42:16.880 just go hang out in there underground, um for a 0:42:16.920 --> 0:42:21.520 long time. How are they digging? Mm? They use it all. 0:42:22.360 --> 0:42:25.880 They'll use their head, they'll use their front limbs and 0:42:26.040 --> 0:42:28.040 just make a big hole. In fact, I don't think 0:42:28.080 --> 0:42:30.879 we have a lot of footage on them making those 0:42:30.920 --> 0:42:33.799 alligator wallows, which would be really cool footage to get, 0:42:34.400 --> 0:42:40.239 but I guess not in Kansas because there's no cameras allowed. Yeah, well, 0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:43.000 the private land gators, those are the spoiled gators. They 0:42:43.040 --> 0:42:44.880 got it made. But like every time you see an 0:42:44.920 --> 0:42:48.279 alligator nest, you'll see the nest up top and then 0:42:48.480 --> 0:42:51.000 on the edge nearest the water, you'll see a hole. 0:42:51.680 --> 0:42:54.960 And mom usually is sitting in that hole or outside 0:42:54.960 --> 0:42:57.279 of that hole by her nest. If she's a good mom. 0:42:57.520 --> 0:42:59.080 Got it. I want to go back to the beginning 0:42:59.080 --> 0:43:01.240 on gators. We should go back at the beginning on YouTube. 0:43:01.320 --> 0:43:04.080 How um you grew up in New York. Grew up 0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:07.759 in New York, New Rochelle, New York. Turned nine there, 0:43:07.800 --> 0:43:10.160 I think, spend a year in England. My dad was 0:43:10.160 --> 0:43:12.920 a high school art teacher. Moved back to New York. 0:43:13.000 --> 0:43:16.160 Moved to Connecticut to play high school baseball. That didn't 0:43:16.160 --> 0:43:19.960 pan out very well. I'm a biologist, not a baseball player. Now, 0:43:20.400 --> 0:43:21.759 but you wanted to be a full time baseball I 0:43:21.800 --> 0:43:24.080 wanted to be a baseball player. I'm just not good 0:43:24.080 --> 0:43:26.200 at baseball. It's the problem. Yeah, I could get in 0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:30.520 the way. Yeah, it's a hardship I couldn't overcome. How'd 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:32.920 you get interested in I like living there where they 0:43:32.920 --> 0:43:35.560 don't have them? How'd you get interested in them? Steve 0:43:35.600 --> 0:43:39.279 Irwin watching the Steve Rwin Animal Planet when I was 0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:42.840 a kid with my neighbor, we would I just got hooked. 0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:46.680 We'd watch it every week and we actually we actually 0:43:46.719 --> 0:43:50.600 bought one of those VHS recorders from a tag sail 0:43:51.520 --> 0:43:54.200 and I would pretend to be Steve Irwin in the 0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:58.840 backyard with toads and snakes and stuff like that. Yeah, 0:43:58.920 --> 0:44:01.640 and it went down the whole it up. I never 0:44:01.680 --> 0:44:05.160 watched them. Wow, look at this is he the guy 0:44:05.160 --> 0:44:07.120 that had that tragic death where he got hit by 0:44:07.200 --> 0:44:12.200 a stingray right through the heart. Is true? But yeah, 0:44:12.239 --> 0:44:16.080 we would, uh make little home videos and then he 0:44:16.160 --> 0:44:19.040 actually did a senior project when he was a senior 0:44:19.080 --> 0:44:23.000 in high school. My buddy, my neighbor, No, I don't know, 0:44:23.080 --> 0:44:25.640 I don't know if he did uh where we went 0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:29.960 down to South Florida and went to a wildlife refuge 0:44:30.000 --> 0:44:33.520 and alligator farm, and we made a video there for 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:38.279 his senior project, and uh, that got me in touch 0:44:38.320 --> 0:44:40.360 with sort of the more hands on aspect of working 0:44:40.360 --> 0:44:43.399 with these animals. And I said to myself, I want 0:44:43.440 --> 0:44:47.040 to work here. And then having worked there for a while, 0:44:47.040 --> 0:44:49.839 I learned that this could be a real job for me. 0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:54.160 So I went to college. And before that, like, when 0:44:54.200 --> 0:44:57.360 you were a kid, did you have like an affinity 0:44:57.440 --> 0:45:00.399 for going out and catching like garter snakes and fro Yeah, 0:45:00.400 --> 0:45:03.080 in Connecticut, I mean I would catch everything I get 0:45:03.160 --> 0:45:05.799 my hands on. Me and my neighbor frogs and milk 0:45:05.840 --> 0:45:09.040 snakes and hog no snakes and everything. I think it's 0:45:09.040 --> 0:45:12.920 just something that is in people. You gotta go catch 0:45:12.960 --> 0:45:18.720 stuff called it's called worrying wildlife. Yeah, I mean kids 0:45:18.800 --> 0:45:20.320 used to do it all the time. Now their parents 0:45:20.320 --> 0:45:22.480 don't let them. Now they do it on an iPad. 0:45:23.160 --> 0:45:25.200 They worry wildlife on an iPad. My kid does. He 0:45:25.239 --> 0:45:30.560 likes to sund them stupid hunting video games drives um. 0:45:31.920 --> 0:45:35.000 And then he studied what would you study general biology 0:45:35.040 --> 0:45:39.200 and undergrad then went on for a master's degree at 0:45:39.239 --> 0:45:42.880 Southeastern Louisiana University where I am now, and I focused 0:45:42.920 --> 0:45:45.839 on My advisor was an evolutionary biologist, but I did 0:45:45.880 --> 0:45:49.319 not focus on evolutionary biology at all. I focused on 0:45:49.360 --> 0:45:53.640 the effects of stress on the reproductive output of American 0:45:53.680 --> 0:45:56.640 alligators in Louisiana in Texas, and I was there at 0:45:56.640 --> 0:46:01.160 a community time because the oil spill occurred, and so 0:46:01.200 --> 0:46:03.200 I was able to look at how the oil spill 0:46:03.200 --> 0:46:07.840 affected the stress of alligators as well, how the actual 0:46:07.960 --> 0:46:11.000 oil or how the activity around the cleanup. What were 0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:13.000 you looking at. Well, that's a tough thing to separate. 0:46:13.080 --> 0:46:16.640 So there was this like dispersing stuff that was put 0:46:16.680 --> 0:46:20.920 out because in eco toxicology, if it's out of sight, 0:46:21.000 --> 0:46:24.000 it's out of mind kind of thing. Um, So it 0:46:24.080 --> 0:46:26.239 was sort of a combination of just looking at the 0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:28.840 entire scenario, either oil in the marsh I was working 0:46:28.880 --> 0:46:34.120 in in southeast Louisiana or the dispersing stuff that was used. 0:46:34.880 --> 0:46:39.600 Turns out large alligators just leave and small alligators stay 0:46:39.800 --> 0:46:42.600 and get really stressed out. So the disperse it was 0:46:42.680 --> 0:46:45.880 meant to to make it the alligators want to split. 0:46:46.840 --> 0:46:48.279 It's hard to tell if it was the oil or 0:46:48.280 --> 0:46:51.480 the dispersing what like, what do you what is dispersing? Yeah, 0:46:51.560 --> 0:46:53.920 so it's this uh, it's this chemical they put out 0:46:53.920 --> 0:46:57.839 in oil spills. I don't know much about it from 0:46:57.920 --> 0:47:02.480 that's the oil from like getting together with other oil molecules. 0:47:02.880 --> 0:47:05.319 So I thought you meant they were putting something out 0:47:05.560 --> 0:47:09.080 to try to drive to disperse animals, to try to 0:47:09.080 --> 0:47:11.560 get gators to move away from the oil spill. It's 0:47:11.640 --> 0:47:13.960 oil spill clean up tactic. I believe I got you. 0:47:14.120 --> 0:47:16.880 So the impacts of that and the little ones to 0:47:16.960 --> 0:47:19.200 stay get stressed out? Was it impactful on them? Yeah, 0:47:19.280 --> 0:47:21.120 they get pretty stressed out, it turns out, which was 0:47:21.239 --> 0:47:24.840 obviously expected. But larger ones just leave and the results 0:47:24.840 --> 0:47:27.080 to get it and stressed out or what like loss 0:47:27.080 --> 0:47:30.480 of weight, slower grow Like, yeah, that's an interesting question. 0:47:30.719 --> 0:47:32.960 I think that the results are getting stressed out. Are 0:47:33.920 --> 0:47:37.560 you know a lot of physiological things. You know, you 0:47:37.600 --> 0:47:40.160 can't allocate a lot of energy to your immune system 0:47:40.200 --> 0:47:43.759 when you're stressed out, so you're more susceptible to the 0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:47.719 environmental problems that are already in your face that alligators 0:47:47.719 --> 0:47:52.680 can pretty well handle when they're not stressed out. When 0:47:52.760 --> 0:47:57.040 you I would say that most Americans do not know 0:47:57.200 --> 0:48:02.600 that there's a crocodile in America, American crocodile South Florida. 0:48:02.920 --> 0:48:05.000 How many of them? Like, I mean, did they used 0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:06.239 to be pretty thick? Did they used to be that 0:48:06.280 --> 0:48:08.120 they were eating people and stuff all the time, like 0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:11.640 African crocodiles in the Nile or whatever. Yeah, I don't. 0:48:11.760 --> 0:48:13.640 I don't really think that they ever became a human 0:48:13.680 --> 0:48:16.719 crocodile conflict issue in South Florida. I mean, I think 0:48:16.719 --> 0:48:18.960 they are now because there's just so many people in 0:48:19.000 --> 0:48:22.360 such little space. But there's a great book that recently 0:48:22.440 --> 0:48:26.400 came out, maybe five or sixty years ago, that talks 0:48:26.440 --> 0:48:30.080 about the Spanish when they settled South Florida. Yeah, they 0:48:30.080 --> 0:48:32.760 would talk about it and talking about just how many 0:48:32.960 --> 0:48:37.080 alligators there were, And specifically there's mentioned like on the 0:48:37.640 --> 0:48:40.440 what would it be southwest side of Florida towards like 0:48:40.480 --> 0:48:44.600 Santa Belle Island, how many American crocodiles there were, lay 0:48:44.600 --> 0:48:48.919 out the difference between an alligator and a crocodile. So, okay, 0:48:48.960 --> 0:48:51.400 are you ready for this? This is a question that 0:48:51.600 --> 0:48:54.279 people ask a lot, and it's not easy for a 0:48:54.400 --> 0:48:58.439 crocodile biologist to answer, because you guys like to everything. Yeah, 0:48:58.520 --> 0:49:01.960 we're terrible. But the issue is that there's like sixteen 0:49:02.000 --> 0:49:06.719 species of crocodile globally globally, and there's eight species of 0:49:06.800 --> 0:49:12.520 ALLIGATORI including Cayman. So to say, what's the differ between 0:49:12.560 --> 0:49:16.040 an alligator and a crocodile, It's a difficult situation. It's 0:49:16.040 --> 0:49:20.399 a difficult thing to answer between much variation. Let's do it. 0:49:21.520 --> 0:49:25.480 Let's stick to the American alligator in the American crocodile. Okay, 0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:30.359 and let's stick to from from a layman observer's perspective. 0:49:30.600 --> 0:49:35.040 Gotcha like, meaning, you're hanging out on vacation in Florida 0:49:35.080 --> 0:49:40.799 and you see a crocodile alligator esque creature and you 0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:43.239 say to yourself, I wonder if that's a gator or 0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:46.560 a croc Sure, what are you looking at? I'm looking 0:49:46.600 --> 0:49:48.640 at a couple of things. The shape of the snout 0:49:48.640 --> 0:49:50.879 is sort of the obvious answer. Alligators have a more 0:49:51.000 --> 0:49:54.440 rounded snout and the American croc is going to have 0:49:54.440 --> 0:49:58.839 a more narrow, longer pointed snout. But I'm also looking 0:49:58.880 --> 0:50:02.440 at other things, like where is it an estuarine environment? 0:50:03.080 --> 0:50:06.759 If so, I'm leaning towards an American crocodile is it 0:50:06.760 --> 0:50:11.200 in the Everglades or Big Cypress National Preserve or somewhere 0:50:11.280 --> 0:50:14.960 more where there is no salt intrusion that'll lead towards 0:50:14.960 --> 0:50:18.000 an American alligator in that scenario. But they're pretty easy 0:50:18.040 --> 0:50:21.239 to tell just by looking at them. So could they, like, 0:50:21.360 --> 0:50:25.680 could the American crocodile just head out into open salt water? Yes, 0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:30.440 there's one or two species of crocodile, the saltwater crocodile 0:50:30.480 --> 0:50:33.759 hence the name, and the American croc that readily enter 0:50:33.840 --> 0:50:39.040 marine environments and disperse from islands to other places throughout 0:50:39.120 --> 0:50:41.719 the ocean. So it's feasible that you could be out 0:50:43.520 --> 0:50:46.560 in the ocean ten miles offshore or something, and here 0:50:46.560 --> 0:50:49.319 comes a crocodiles going by in Costriaca. That happens all 0:50:49.320 --> 0:50:53.520 the time to surfers and other people out there, especially 0:50:53.520 --> 0:50:56.600 on the Pacific coast. Just see them. Yeah, there's out there, 0:50:57.000 --> 0:50:59.879 look like logs on the top of the water. Then 0:51:00.160 --> 0:51:03.399 go under and then you get off your board. Are 0:51:03.400 --> 0:51:06.680 they hunting? What are they doing out there? I think 0:51:06.719 --> 0:51:10.200 for yeah, I mean they're they're eating out there, you know. 0:51:10.239 --> 0:51:11.920 I think a lot of people like to think of 0:51:12.440 --> 0:51:17.279 crocodilians in general is eating large animals, right, sure, But 0:51:17.360 --> 0:51:19.759 I think you know, what we know from a lot 0:51:19.800 --> 0:51:22.760 of really good research in South Louisiana and Southeast Texas 0:51:22.800 --> 0:51:26.440 is that alligators eat a lot of blue crab. And 0:51:26.560 --> 0:51:28.920 we know that American crocs are eating a ton of 0:51:29.000 --> 0:51:32.680 shrimp when they can really so yeah, So I think like, like, 0:51:32.800 --> 0:51:35.080 how in the hell are they doing that? They just 0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:38.520 go out and open their mouths and swim and shrimp 0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:41.640 goes near them. In fact, I saw a video. I 0:51:41.680 --> 0:51:45.360 saw video last night on social media of a crocodile 0:51:45.480 --> 0:51:47.919 using its tail to flick shrimp up in the air 0:51:48.440 --> 0:51:51.680 and they were landing in his mouth. It was awesome. 0:51:51.719 --> 0:51:54.880 I'll try to find that video for you. Wow. The 0:51:55.000 --> 0:51:59.040 crocs like in Costa Rica, the ones that get real big, 0:51:59.160 --> 0:52:02.960 same exacts sees as the one in South Florida. Yes, 0:52:03.440 --> 0:52:05.520 how come the ones in South Florida don't get big? 0:52:05.880 --> 0:52:12.280 They get pretty big, do they? Oh? Yeah? South Florida 0:52:12.400 --> 0:52:15.160 is a is a tricky scenario in terms of American 0:52:15.160 --> 0:52:19.320 crocs because there's so much there's there's so little habitat 0:52:19.600 --> 0:52:23.600 and so much attention paid because they're the only American croc. 0:52:23.680 --> 0:52:26.719 As you say, in the commental US or in the 0:52:26.800 --> 0:52:30.960 US in general. So the numbers are pretty low. So 0:52:31.000 --> 0:52:34.759 they're sort of a high conservation concern, and there's really 0:52:34.760 --> 0:52:38.920 been a really good effort to monitor populations in particular 0:52:39.040 --> 0:52:44.879 successful nesting events, sort of in collaboration with land use 0:52:45.320 --> 0:52:49.160 down there. Um, a lot of folks at like University 0:52:49.200 --> 0:52:53.440 of Florida have spent long time studying those populations, like 0:52:53.480 --> 0:52:55.560 how many are there, how many were there, and how 0:52:55.560 --> 0:52:57.719 many are there? It's hard to say how many there were. 0:52:57.760 --> 0:52:59.839 I want to make an educated guests and say more. 0:53:00.120 --> 0:53:03.080 But I would say right now, I think a colleague 0:53:03.120 --> 0:53:06.000 might correct me. But I would say a thousand American 0:53:06.000 --> 0:53:09.920 crocs in South Florida would be a generally good ballpark. 0:53:11.520 --> 0:53:15.200 And they can at times be intermixed with alligators, yeah, 0:53:15.320 --> 0:53:17.440 especially way down in South Florida. Like if you go 0:53:17.480 --> 0:53:20.480 down to like nine Mile Pond Flamingo way down there 0:53:20.480 --> 0:53:23.120 in never Glades National Park, you'll be in water bodies 0:53:23.120 --> 0:53:24.799 where you can see them both and they can be 0:53:24.840 --> 0:53:29.720 fourteen feet crocs. Yeah, I mean alligators Cuba eating shrimp 0:53:29.960 --> 0:53:32.560 eating crabs. I like to think of them eating wild fish. 0:53:32.680 --> 0:53:36.200 I know that's the cool stuff. Oh yeah, man, like 0:53:36.440 --> 0:53:39.799 doing crazy stuff. I mean, really, whatever swims near their mouth, 0:53:40.560 --> 0:53:42.560 they're gonna try to eat. You know, when I was 0:53:42.560 --> 0:53:46.800 down there, I was with Clay Nor, my colleague, Clay Nucam, 0:53:47.680 --> 0:53:49.719 and he was saying, Man, if you came to me 0:53:50.640 --> 0:53:57.000 and said, um, you have to go get attacked by 0:53:57.000 --> 0:54:01.920 a bear, he said, it'd actually be hard to get 0:54:01.960 --> 0:54:04.359 attacked by a bear. There's actually a movie about this 0:54:04.400 --> 0:54:06.440 where a guy got mauled by a grizzly. Then he 0:54:06.440 --> 0:54:11.279 built a grizzlyproof suit. He couldn't get mauled again. He 0:54:11.400 --> 0:54:13.360 tried his ass off to get mauled again in his 0:54:13.440 --> 0:54:16.200 grizzlyproof suit, but could never get mauled again. So Clay's like, 0:54:16.760 --> 0:54:20.520 you couldn't. If you said to go get mauled, you 0:54:20.719 --> 0:54:23.920 probably are going to fail. But he said, I feel 0:54:23.960 --> 0:54:26.400 like he doesn't know. He doesn't live in gator country. 0:54:26.440 --> 0:54:29.279 He said, you know, I'm far from gator No. He said, 0:54:29.280 --> 0:54:30.680 I feel like if you told me I had to 0:54:30.680 --> 0:54:32.560 get mauled by a gator, I'd be able to figure 0:54:32.560 --> 0:54:37.600 it out. Yeah, that's definitely the possibility. I mean, I 0:54:37.640 --> 0:54:40.600 think that's a lot easier. So because yeah, we're because 0:54:40.680 --> 0:54:42.279 we don't We don't know because we're not familiar with him. 0:54:42.280 --> 0:54:43.799 But we thought, like, how would you not go to 0:54:43.880 --> 0:54:45.840 that little pond where you know that some bitches in 0:54:45.880 --> 0:54:48.160 there and just stick your foot in there and wiggle 0:54:48.200 --> 0:54:51.080 it around. How's he not gonna want to bite it? Well, 0:54:51.080 --> 0:54:53.160 he might be afraid, you know. I think the easiest 0:54:53.160 --> 0:54:55.439 thing to do is to make yourself look like you're 0:54:55.480 --> 0:54:59.040 the size of a manageable prey item. That's what happens 0:54:59.200 --> 0:55:03.200 when you see all these media reports of stuff getting eaten, 0:55:03.880 --> 0:55:07.120 is that they're usually in the water part way, or 0:55:07.200 --> 0:55:10.680 the size of a small dog or something like that. 0:55:11.280 --> 0:55:12.879 So I would go to the pond and I would 0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:16.480 kneel at the water's edge. You're trying to get my waist, 0:55:17.000 --> 0:55:20.840 kneel down. Look small at night. Then you'd have a 0:55:20.840 --> 0:55:22.560 good chance and you can pull it off. Have you 0:55:22.600 --> 0:55:25.520 ever been have you ever been part of like an 0:55:25.520 --> 0:55:31.399 investigation of an attack at all? Done anywhere without going 0:55:31.400 --> 0:55:37.960 into too much detail. Yes, but we'll say, okay, let's 0:55:37.960 --> 0:55:41.359 do the version where you do go into detail. I mean, 0:55:42.120 --> 0:55:48.319 there's been a situation. Things off, Please my teacher. I'm 0:55:48.320 --> 0:55:49.960 not joking, man, I don't know if she's still alive 0:55:50.080 --> 0:55:53.160 or not. I don't I don't want to say her name. 0:55:53.760 --> 0:55:55.520 I can tell you that she lived on the Mosquegan River. 0:55:56.160 --> 0:55:58.600 I don't want to say her name. She might have 0:55:58.640 --> 0:56:01.400 to look at so she's passed away or not. My 0:56:01.440 --> 0:56:06.160 fifth grade teacher was in the Peace Corps in Africa, 0:56:06.320 --> 0:56:09.040 and I think she got reprimanded for this. She brought 0:56:09.160 --> 0:56:15.920 us photographs into school and showed in school photographs of 0:56:15.960 --> 0:56:19.200 the remains of her boyfriend who has recovered from the 0:56:19.239 --> 0:56:26.719 belly of a crocodile and at whoam yikes? So you 0:56:26.800 --> 0:56:29.359 now you go? Now I go. Now you tell us 0:56:29.360 --> 0:56:32.280 what you're talking about. Well, I just spilled the beans, 0:56:32.440 --> 0:56:37.040 you know. I think when there's human crocodile conflict in 0:56:37.080 --> 0:56:40.360 the population that involves a population of animals that a 0:56:40.400 --> 0:56:44.960 particular researcher works in, they like to get as much 0:56:44.960 --> 0:56:49.839 information as they can on who or which animal they 0:56:49.840 --> 0:56:54.480 think was responsible for the attacks understood, and I have 0:56:54.719 --> 0:57:00.279 been inquired about who is involved. The problem is it's 0:57:00.320 --> 0:57:03.560 an impossible thing to answer. Oh, someone want to know 0:57:03.719 --> 0:57:06.239 which of the gators that you might be looking at, 0:57:06.320 --> 0:57:09.480 and what could they tell about its behaviors and whatnot? Yeah, 0:57:09.480 --> 0:57:12.600 do I have any ideas on if which alligator may 0:57:12.640 --> 0:57:15.080 have done this bad. Yeah, it's like when they try 0:57:15.080 --> 0:57:18.200 to go after the rogue shark or whatever. Right, yeah, right, 0:57:18.240 --> 0:57:21.480 And I find that a little bit ridiculous. I mean, 0:57:21.520 --> 0:57:23.920 if it's in a scenario where there's an alligator in 0:57:24.040 --> 0:57:28.440 a communal pond in Florida and that's where somebody went missing, 0:57:28.520 --> 0:57:34.680 well it was that alligator, that's an easy one. But 0:57:34.800 --> 0:57:40.480 if it's somebody swimming off the coast of Florida and 0:57:40.720 --> 0:57:42.960 somebody goes missing, then how are you supposed to know 0:57:43.000 --> 0:57:47.480 which animals responsible? Right? Usually the management tactic is to 0:57:47.880 --> 0:57:50.520 go out and see if there's a size animal that 0:57:51.160 --> 0:57:55.640 could have been responsible. But in most scenarios, like way 0:57:55.640 --> 0:57:57.960 out in the wild, it's that's an impossible thing too 0:57:58.480 --> 0:58:02.200 to know. Every year, man, I'll get back to the 0:58:02.200 --> 0:58:03.880 history stuff. And now we're on this subject. I want 0:58:03.880 --> 0:58:08.400 to go with it. And and I know that you're 0:58:08.400 --> 0:58:10.160 a good person asks because you're not gonna want to 0:58:10.160 --> 0:58:15.400 sensationalize stuff because you're you're you're dealing in facts and 0:58:15.480 --> 0:58:17.840 you you know gather you liked the animals, I do 0:58:17.920 --> 0:58:19.680 very much, so you don't want to sensationalize this. But 0:58:19.720 --> 0:58:22.240 I'll say this and the Okay, in the lower forty eight, 0:58:23.880 --> 0:58:34.240 every year grizzly bears kill zero, one, two, or three. 0:58:34.280 --> 0:58:40.880 People's never more than two or three. Sometimes there's none. 0:58:41.680 --> 0:58:46.560 Usually there's one. Okay, where are we at with alligators? 0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:51.880 Alligators and crocodiles in America? Like about the same? Right? Yeah, gosh, 0:58:51.960 --> 0:58:56.800 I don't know in recent years of reported crocodile attack, Okay, 0:58:57.000 --> 0:59:00.280 so that's not even a thing. I mean, maybe even 0:59:00.400 --> 0:59:03.760 one every five years. God, as an educated guest, it's 0:59:03.800 --> 0:59:06.160 like I would declare that not a thing. Not a thing. 0:59:06.400 --> 0:59:09.080 I would also agree, Yeah, alligators, I think, I mean, 0:59:09.120 --> 0:59:11.720 I would say, annually we hear about some new story 0:59:12.320 --> 0:59:16.080 where there was an alligator attack, right, but we don't 0:59:16.120 --> 0:59:19.120 hear about it fifty times a year. We hear about 0:59:19.120 --> 0:59:21.880 it one, two, or three, So it remains almost in 0:59:21.920 --> 0:59:24.880 the category of not a thing. I yeah, I think. 0:59:24.880 --> 0:59:30.160 So when you're an alligator country, are there are there 0:59:30.160 --> 0:59:33.640 things that you just don't do make yourself the size 0:59:33.640 --> 0:59:36.640 of a prey item at the water's edge, and that 0:59:36.680 --> 0:59:40.720 becomes like a widely known thing. No, otherwise it wouldn't happen. 0:59:41.720 --> 0:59:44.080 I mean I think that, you know, let's say, we're 0:59:44.120 --> 0:59:46.760 at these ponds, okay, and I had my kids with me, 0:59:46.840 --> 0:59:49.720 which could totally happen. And when my kids getting near 0:59:49.720 --> 0:59:51.880 a pond, what do they want to do? They want 0:59:51.880 --> 0:59:53.920 to go throw shit in the pond. Yeah, okay, so 0:59:53.960 --> 0:59:57.000 they're down. Yeah, they're down throwing shit in the pond, 0:59:57.040 --> 1:00:01.840 falling into the pond. Um would you are you hysterical 1:00:02.160 --> 1:00:06.800 to be like, don't do that? Or is that reasonable 1:00:06.840 --> 1:00:09.360 to be like that? I would say you can throw 1:00:09.400 --> 1:00:12.520 stuff in the pond, because that's the urge that everyone has, 1:00:12.800 --> 1:00:15.560 But don't go down to the water if you're a kid, hmm, 1:00:15.960 --> 1:00:20.960 I mean, just don't. Why risk it? And you're not 1:00:21.040 --> 1:00:26.200 you don't rate yourself a paranoid person, No, I don't. 1:00:26.320 --> 1:00:31.520 I wouldn't say why. Or so getting bit by getting 1:00:31.880 --> 1:00:34.880 killed by an alligator resides somewhere into like the not 1:00:35.080 --> 1:00:38.920 a thing thing. But they're hell on dogs or that 1:00:39.200 --> 1:00:41.600 is that like a thing? That is that overblown? And 1:00:41.640 --> 1:00:43.520 you know, I mean they are hell on dogs. I 1:00:43.560 --> 1:00:45.080 think that most of the time. Like there was a 1:00:45.120 --> 1:00:48.720 couple videos recently where the dog got attacked and the 1:00:48.800 --> 1:00:51.600 owner went to save the dog, and I think that 1:00:51.720 --> 1:00:55.360 leads to a lot of this stuff um. When they're 1:00:55.360 --> 1:00:58.320 walking their dog near a pond, those dogs have the 1:00:58.360 --> 1:01:02.000 same inclination to go to the water's and then alligator says, ooh, 1:01:02.160 --> 1:01:05.760 a prey size organism. I'm gonna eat that, and the 1:01:05.760 --> 1:01:08.720 owner says, no, you're not. And then that leads to 1:01:08.760 --> 1:01:11.640 an issue between the alligator and the owner because he's 1:01:11.640 --> 1:01:13.640 in there trying to do because they're trying to save 1:01:13.720 --> 1:01:16.600 their dog, which I get as well. So my suggestion is, 1:01:17.520 --> 1:01:20.400 don't walk your dogs near the water's edge if you 1:01:20.440 --> 1:01:23.520 know that there's an alligator in that pond, or even 1:01:23.520 --> 1:01:25.920 if you don't, if you're if you're not sure, don't 1:01:25.960 --> 1:01:28.720 do it. Name for me all the junk you've heard 1:01:28.720 --> 1:01:31.640 of him eating, because it's a crazy list, right, Okay, Yeah, 1:01:31.680 --> 1:01:35.880 so we've we opened up thirteen big harvest the alligators 1:01:35.960 --> 1:01:39.200 stomachs um from a kind of a unique habits at 1:01:39.200 --> 1:01:44.400 a reservoir in Alabama on the Chattahoochee River, and we 1:01:44.560 --> 1:01:53.200 found the alligators thirteen fourteen feet damn big and they stunk. Man, 1:01:53.880 --> 1:01:56.240 But we found they stunk just the animal stunt. No, 1:01:56.320 --> 1:01:58.520 when you open that gut, I mean stuff's been there, 1:01:58.520 --> 1:02:01.480 a wild rotten it's the worst smell I've ever smelled, 1:02:01.880 --> 1:02:03.360 and I can smell it to this day if I 1:02:03.400 --> 1:02:09.120 try hard enough. It was all experience. We covered that. Yeah, 1:02:09.160 --> 1:02:12.880 I like the leading source on day this podcast is 1:02:12.920 --> 1:02:15.640 a leading source of information on DEA. Who yeah, I mean, 1:02:15.920 --> 1:02:19.600 we found so much stuff in those guts. Particularly, we 1:02:19.640 --> 1:02:24.040 found fish scales from stuff like alligator gar along noose gar, 1:02:24.200 --> 1:02:30.200 spotted gar. We found an entire h hog parts all 1:02:30.240 --> 1:02:33.880 in there, turtle scoots from alligator snappers, which is a 1:02:33.920 --> 1:02:41.160 hard thing to eat, really, snake vertebrae like the carrotonized 1:02:41.320 --> 1:02:44.480 plates on top of the show. Uh. And then the 1:02:44.520 --> 1:02:47.880 coolest thing we found was a fawn that looked like 1:02:47.880 --> 1:02:50.280 it was a sleep in the gut. It was about 1:02:50.800 --> 1:02:54.640 oh man, that big, and it was just sitting dog 1:02:54.960 --> 1:02:56.960 like it was a sleep, Like he was gonna get 1:02:56.960 --> 1:03:00.920 around to digesting it at some point exactly eventually that 1:03:00.920 --> 1:03:04.640 thing was going to pass through, but not that day. 1:03:05.360 --> 1:03:07.800 How long had they been in there, Oh, I don't know, 1:03:07.880 --> 1:03:10.200 it was it was incredibly intact, so I would say 1:03:10.240 --> 1:03:13.520 not long. But he also found a lot of man 1:03:13.520 --> 1:03:16.640 made stuff in there, a lot of shell casings in there, 1:03:16.920 --> 1:03:19.640 and bullets. I don't know. It's shiny stuff. Yeah, a 1:03:19.680 --> 1:03:22.080 lot of shiny stuff. And I still don't know if 1:03:22.760 --> 1:03:26.000 the alligator had eaten things that had been shot, or 1:03:26.040 --> 1:03:28.920 if people were shooting at the alligator and it didn't die. 1:03:28.960 --> 1:03:32.480 Are the bullets deformed or the bullets in their original 1:03:32.560 --> 1:03:37.560 state like pre firing, original date, not mushroomed like on 1:03:37.680 --> 1:03:42.320 the on the beaver skull or anything. But if so 1:03:42.360 --> 1:03:47.640 you saw, we've found it all, you know, I mean, 1:03:47.680 --> 1:03:50.400 like he's just eating the eating stuff. Yeah, but then 1:03:50.440 --> 1:03:54.520 you found also just the projectile, the bullets not not 1:03:54.600 --> 1:03:59.720 mushroomed like a lot of them. I also could imagine 1:03:59.800 --> 1:04:01.760 that it's like, yeah, I wonder if that's picking up 1:04:02.560 --> 1:04:03.840 Like a lot of times, if they're trying to eat 1:04:03.880 --> 1:04:05.680 something off the bottom, they'll get a lot of other 1:04:05.760 --> 1:04:09.440 stuff in their mouth. So they're probably about the one 1:04:09.440 --> 1:04:14.920 that had some Indian arrowheads in it, remember that eating 1:04:14.960 --> 1:04:18.120 so much garbage off the bottom. He actually inadvertently, assumably 1:04:18.240 --> 1:04:21.600 assuming he inadvertently picked up type that in Crinton type 1:04:21.600 --> 1:04:27.960 in alligator arrowhead was flint arrowhead. I forget where that was. Yeah, 1:04:28.200 --> 1:04:31.480 go on, well that's that's really awesome. Do you know, 1:04:31.600 --> 1:04:33.880 but the bullets, do you have pictures of the bullets. No, 1:04:34.200 --> 1:04:38.760 I mean this was this was twenty twenty eleven, twenty twelve. 1:04:38.840 --> 1:04:45.680 Got it around then Mississippi, Mississippi read that this might 1:04:45.760 --> 1:04:49.920 tickle your fancy. The title is out. This is CNN. 1:04:50.040 --> 1:04:53.120 Just so happens. Alligators eat lots of things. These prehistoric 1:04:53.240 --> 1:04:56.840 artifacts were an unusual snack. So this was a Mississippi 1:04:56.880 --> 1:05:00.520 gator in well, the guy who found found it was 1:05:00.560 --> 1:05:05.000 based in Yazoo City, Mississippi. But he found yeah, part 1:05:05.160 --> 1:05:08.920 of uh like the base part of an arrowhead, and 1:05:08.960 --> 1:05:13.080 then some other kind of like uh like an adiladdle 1:05:13.200 --> 1:05:16.200 dark point. Yeah, they're like a like a counterbalance to 1:05:16.280 --> 1:05:18.560 an adiladdle. I don't think if I remember. So when 1:05:18.720 --> 1:05:20.480 when he picks that junk up, what's he doing? He 1:05:20.600 --> 1:05:24.120 just inadvertently getting it while he grabs other stuff. Yeah, 1:05:24.160 --> 1:05:26.960 i'd imagine. So, like, have you ever seen an alligator 1:05:27.000 --> 1:05:30.200 attempt to eat something off the bottom. They're horrible at it. 1:05:30.760 --> 1:05:33.440 They just sort of turn their head and kind of 1:05:34.120 --> 1:05:36.920 rub on the bottom and anything that's in their mouth 1:05:36.920 --> 1:05:39.960 they'll lift their head up and might go down. Is 1:05:39.960 --> 1:05:43.520 it just like like a shovel basically? I mean it's yeah, 1:05:43.600 --> 1:05:48.040 like a like you were to take two shovels try 1:05:48.080 --> 1:05:50.640 to use them as a tool to lift something up 1:05:50.680 --> 1:05:52.840 off the table, you know, and they're and you're really 1:05:52.840 --> 1:05:56.280 bad at it. So so's the alligator. They just siphon 1:05:56.320 --> 1:05:57.880 all that junk down there. It all goes down and 1:05:58.040 --> 1:05:59.880 they get what they want to eat whatever else is 1:06:00.280 --> 1:06:03.120 near that thing's going down. Lay out for me, how 1:06:03.760 --> 1:06:07.760 this is the thing I hear about um people like 1:06:07.840 --> 1:06:11.680 talking about the death roll and then them and then 1:06:11.760 --> 1:06:16.400 them burying junk and scavenging junk, and if they catch 1:06:16.440 --> 1:06:19.520 a person, they'll stash a person under a log or something. 1:06:20.040 --> 1:06:22.400 Or a deer walking through all that, like so here 1:06:22.560 --> 1:06:24.840 here he is, he's in his he's laying there, and 1:06:24.880 --> 1:06:27.040 a deer comes out to get a drink. Okay, laying there. 1:06:27.320 --> 1:06:30.160 He's seeing the deer at night at the water's edge. 1:06:30.200 --> 1:06:32.160 He's under the water. He or she's under the water, 1:06:32.840 --> 1:06:35.640 and approaches slowly under the water until he's near enough 1:06:35.680 --> 1:06:38.800 to attack the deer. Happens in a mill a second. 1:06:39.560 --> 1:06:41.919 If he can get ahold of the animal, he'll bring 1:06:41.960 --> 1:06:44.960 it back into the water and grab it by whatever 1:06:44.960 --> 1:06:47.800 he can grab and then walk back into the water 1:06:47.880 --> 1:06:50.880 with it. And usually the prey dies by drowning. Okay, 1:06:51.200 --> 1:06:54.840 But then what happens is this is a thing that 1:06:55.560 --> 1:06:59.640 some colleagues he might have published recently about. It's called 1:06:59.680 --> 1:07:03.360 prey cashing. Okay. So they'll go like, find a wallow 1:07:03.760 --> 1:07:08.600 or a log, or it's coming, it's coming. Oh it's yeah, 1:07:08.680 --> 1:07:13.080 Oh yeah, it's coming. It's dead. But how do they 1:07:13.080 --> 1:07:16.320 get a leg off of a big deer? The death 1:07:16.440 --> 1:07:19.160 roll and a lot of times I'm going there, I'm 1:07:19.200 --> 1:07:22.080 not leading your way. Yeah, so they'll take that animal 1:07:22.120 --> 1:07:24.120 and stick it under the water for a couple of 1:07:24.200 --> 1:07:28.840 days a week, and then they'll reapproach it and roll off. 1:07:29.080 --> 1:07:32.600 I don't think that there's data to suggest that a 1:07:32.640 --> 1:07:36.200 single animal will guard a prey cash. Well, how does 1:07:36.280 --> 1:07:38.800 how does it not? Just like if you stick a 1:07:38.880 --> 1:07:40.760 deer under the water, how does every gator in town 1:07:40.880 --> 1:07:43.120 not come and eat it? Yeah, I mean I think 1:07:43.160 --> 1:07:46.680 they do. I think a big alligator might have some 1:07:46.800 --> 1:07:49.720 say and who comes and eats it? So like a 1:07:49.840 --> 1:07:54.840 large male crocodilian usually has a home territory and if 1:07:54.840 --> 1:07:59.640 a smaller male comes into that territory, they either get 1:07:59.680 --> 1:08:03.480 eaten or gotta got it. So if they put it 1:08:03.520 --> 1:08:06.640 in a spot that's there's I doubt there's much of 1:08:06.680 --> 1:08:12.960 a struggles. Granted, if another alligator sees that deer being 1:08:12.960 --> 1:08:15.320 pulled into the water, it's going to make an attempt 1:08:15.400 --> 1:08:18.760 to try to eat something, So either at that time 1:08:18.880 --> 1:08:21.800 or after cashing has occurred, they'll bite onto what they 1:08:21.840 --> 1:08:25.760 think is a swallowable size part and roll it off 1:08:26.640 --> 1:08:29.040 to the death, roll underwater, roll it off, or that 1:08:29.080 --> 1:08:32.639 alligator trying to come steal a meal might latch onto 1:08:32.680 --> 1:08:35.880 something and roll and get a bite. So him him, 1:08:35.960 --> 1:08:41.480 that's his fork and knife, Yeah, his teeth, his roll. Yeah. 1:08:42.080 --> 1:08:45.920 What about sense of smell? Like you met, you talked 1:08:45.920 --> 1:08:48.760 about they see this deer at the water's edge, But 1:08:49.760 --> 1:08:53.800 like dudes who go out and like are catching crocks 1:08:53.880 --> 1:08:57.240 or whatever, the commercial market meat or whatever, they're often 1:08:57.320 --> 1:09:00.559 like hanging a big chunk of chicken. Like, are they 1:09:00.640 --> 1:09:04.439 finding that I'm assuming by smell? Right? Yeah, you know, 1:09:05.200 --> 1:09:11.800 we don't know a lot about the chemosensory ability of crocodilians. 1:09:11.920 --> 1:09:16.800 We know that it's probably pretty complex. Like we know 1:09:17.040 --> 1:09:22.360 that they probably use a lot of uh pheromones to communicate, 1:09:23.120 --> 1:09:26.120 but gosh, it's a challenge trying to isolate that stuff. 1:09:26.160 --> 1:09:29.040 I don't think anybody's really looked into that too much. 1:09:29.360 --> 1:09:31.879 But they don't have a mechanism by which you can 1:09:33.479 --> 1:09:36.760 They can't smell underwater cracked. Yeah, I mean I think so. 1:09:36.960 --> 1:09:39.360 I mean, when you hang that piece of chicken and 1:09:39.400 --> 1:09:43.080 it's rotting in the Louisiana sun and some of it 1:09:43.200 --> 1:09:47.599 starts to drip off into the water, they know it's there. Okay, 1:09:49.360 --> 1:09:53.679 but yeah, well he does because he's taking he's taking 1:09:53.720 --> 1:09:58.360 water in. But when you're underwater, you're not gonna smell underwater. 1:09:59.040 --> 1:10:01.759 You're not you're not making anything in, you're not taking 1:10:01.760 --> 1:10:04.640 part of all that's like all that liquid is passing 1:10:04.720 --> 1:10:08.720 through their I don't know. That's why I'm that's why, 1:10:09.479 --> 1:10:11.360 that's why we have a guest on the show. Yeah, 1:10:11.439 --> 1:10:13.880 and this is I don't know if that's true. Like 1:10:14.000 --> 1:10:18.000 when you knew, when you know, I'm telling you this, 1:10:18.320 --> 1:10:22.240 when you go underwater, Okay, like a beaver. Let's say 1:10:22.240 --> 1:10:25.200 you're trapping beaver and you put out beaver cast, right, 1:10:25.439 --> 1:10:28.280 he knows about it. When he's at the surface, he's 1:10:28.280 --> 1:10:30.880 gonna smell it on the air. When he's underwater, he's 1:10:30.920 --> 1:10:35.400 locked down, he's not he's not inhaling and picking up particles. 1:10:35.439 --> 1:10:39.639 A shark's underwater moving all that water through. And however 1:10:39.640 --> 1:10:42.000 they're doing it, they're tasting all the particulate matter in 1:10:42.040 --> 1:10:46.280 the water. You're not, buddy, Yeah, but humans have a 1:10:46.320 --> 1:10:49.320 horrible sense of smell, So how can you make the comparison. 1:10:50.120 --> 1:10:54.400 I could put you underwater, Okay, I could put you 1:10:54.800 --> 1:11:00.400 underwater with some skunk smell, right, but I'm not. And 1:11:05.840 --> 1:11:09.439 can they smell underwater? I'll say this, when they're hunting, 1:11:10.040 --> 1:11:15.040 they use their site first, I'd imagine certain in certain scenarios. 1:11:15.120 --> 1:11:16.960 But the other thing we know about all crockatilians is 1:11:17.000 --> 1:11:20.360 that they have these really cool pits on their face 1:11:20.520 --> 1:11:23.960 that sense change in water pressure. So when they can't 1:11:23.960 --> 1:11:27.800 see underwater, they can feel really well what's going on 1:11:27.840 --> 1:11:30.920 around them and snap it stuff. Oh really, So I 1:11:30.960 --> 1:11:34.559 think that those are the top two sort of modes 1:11:34.800 --> 1:11:39.120 of finding prey. But I know that there's a chemosensory 1:11:39.160 --> 1:11:43.960 ability there that is poorly understood or not understood well 1:11:43.960 --> 1:11:51.200 by me, which is likely possibility underwater, even underwater underwater body, 1:11:51.960 --> 1:11:56.439 I figured duding triviat Now man is gator questions? I 1:11:56.760 --> 1:12:08.479 be all over that now I'm gonna go back to 1:12:08.479 --> 1:12:13.320 the beginning a little bit. Why you always hear the 1:12:13.320 --> 1:12:17.080 alligators were one so Endangered Species Act was seventy three, 1:12:17.160 --> 1:12:19.479 nineteen seventy three. Oh no, I got another question, Okay, 1:12:19.560 --> 1:12:22.479 before I get into this. Oh, this is the thing 1:12:22.479 --> 1:12:24.000 I was wondering about when I was in Florida. And 1:12:24.040 --> 1:12:25.639 this might not be your I'm sure it's not your 1:12:25.640 --> 1:12:29.439 ara of expertise, but maybe you've had some um run 1:12:29.439 --> 1:12:33.759 ins on this one. I learned it when we say 1:12:34.320 --> 1:12:40.320 um the Seminal, Okay, that that was a sort of 1:12:41.160 --> 1:12:44.480 I always thought that the Seminal. I thought the Seminal 1:12:45.320 --> 1:12:51.479 were a like a sort of like always existing, like 1:12:51.520 --> 1:12:55.920 a like a pre contact, pre existing tribe of Native 1:12:55.960 --> 1:12:59.519 Americans that lived in Florida. I later learned that the 1:12:59.560 --> 1:13:05.680 Seminal was sort of like a later congregation of a 1:13:05.800 --> 1:13:12.240 later congregation of Native Americans and even others escaped slaves 1:13:12.280 --> 1:13:15.799 and things like formed this sort of like unit, the Seminal. 1:13:15.800 --> 1:13:18.680 And then the Seminal wars was against these tribes, but 1:13:18.760 --> 1:13:21.280 they were that they were assembled out of other tribes. 1:13:22.160 --> 1:13:23.800 So had you asked me a month ago, I would 1:13:23.800 --> 1:13:26.160 have asked the question this way how did the seminal? 1:13:26.720 --> 1:13:31.800 Did they use these did they use alligator resources in 1:13:31.840 --> 1:13:34.280 their in their life ways for food and material products? 1:13:34.320 --> 1:13:36.040 But now I know that you wouldn't say that, you'd 1:13:36.040 --> 1:13:39.120 say groups that I don't know their names. Is like, 1:13:39.360 --> 1:13:41.200 have you ever run into have you ever had any 1:13:41.200 --> 1:13:44.280 exposure to this question, like historically, like five hundred years ago, 1:13:44.280 --> 1:13:49.759 six hundred years ago, were humans using this resource? I've 1:13:49.760 --> 1:13:52.280 never been asked that question before, but I would venture 1:13:52.320 --> 1:13:58.600 to say yes, because I know that in like artifact 1:13:58.720 --> 1:14:01.000 site where they finally lot of stuff, they find a 1:14:01.080 --> 1:14:05.799 lot of alligator scoots got in some of those sites. Um, 1:14:07.040 --> 1:14:10.040 I mean, I'm sure they were used for food. Yeah. 1:14:10.080 --> 1:14:12.280 When I was talking with this he's like, well, why 1:14:12.280 --> 1:14:13.800 in the hell not, I'm like, I don't. I mean, 1:14:13.880 --> 1:14:17.640 it seems obvious, but I don't know. Yeah, why not? Um? 1:14:17.680 --> 1:14:19.920 I mean I think that there's in South Florida in particular, 1:14:19.920 --> 1:14:22.479 there's a there's a lot of sort of heritage based, 1:14:23.680 --> 1:14:30.280 sort of cultural based, um, you know, efforts to alligator 1:14:30.640 --> 1:14:34.320 wrestling as a sport that I believe, if I'm not mistaken, 1:14:34.400 --> 1:14:41.280 has pre European contact ties. Someone told me that, Ye, 1:14:42.520 --> 1:14:45.559 So that would venture to guess you know at that 1:14:45.680 --> 1:14:48.719 time then, yeah, they were probably utilized as a resource. 1:14:49.000 --> 1:14:51.280 I realized, I'm asking you something way outside of your wheelhouse. 1:14:51.320 --> 1:14:54.400 But it's okay, I appreciate the input. I'll comment on anything. 1:14:54.520 --> 1:14:59.880 Now here's my question. Okay, they're everywhere, dude, Like now, okay, 1:15:00.160 --> 1:15:04.519 I couldn't believe when we were turkey hunting right in 1:15:04.520 --> 1:15:08.320 our little Turkey area, there's like this. They were laying 1:15:08.360 --> 1:15:10.759 on top of each other. You're going down this canal 1:15:10.800 --> 1:15:13.280 and it's dry right now, So I understand they're concentrated 1:15:13.400 --> 1:15:15.600 where you're going down to canal and you get to 1:15:15.640 --> 1:15:17.920 where you don't eat, Like at first, because we're from 1:15:17.960 --> 1:15:20.000 the north, they're like, oh my god, like you know, 1:15:20.360 --> 1:15:23.120 and the guy we're with that's from Florida, he don't, 1:15:23.200 --> 1:15:26.439 he can't even he don't even look like, oh my god, 1:15:26.720 --> 1:15:31.160 oh my god, are you seeing this? You know? Yeah, 1:15:31.280 --> 1:15:34.960 Richard just rolling his eyes. He's like, holy shit, man, 1:15:35.520 --> 1:15:39.599 another one. They're all over, you know. I'm not saying 1:15:39.640 --> 1:15:41.639 there's too many of them, just saying there is a lot. 1:15:42.880 --> 1:15:45.840 But it blows my mind that, like in seventy three, 1:15:45.920 --> 1:15:47.360 they were they were kind of like one of the 1:15:47.439 --> 1:15:53.240 early endangerous species act things. How did they how did 1:15:53.280 --> 1:15:55.280 they get reduced that bad? You know what I mean 1:15:55.280 --> 1:15:57.679 when you look at like how abundant they are. Yeah, 1:15:57.680 --> 1:16:02.240 so that's a sort of classic story of unregulated harvest 1:16:02.760 --> 1:16:05.640 for meat and hide. And they were just harvest I 1:16:05.640 --> 1:16:10.040 mean throughout the forties, nineteen fifties into the sixties, there 1:16:10.120 --> 1:16:13.599 was really no legislation that said you can't harvest as 1:16:13.600 --> 1:16:17.280 many as you can find, and you know, they nearly 1:16:17.320 --> 1:16:20.880 went extinct. It was it was that from like mechanically, 1:16:21.680 --> 1:16:26.559 it wasn't it wasn't from pollution now, woll No, that 1:16:26.680 --> 1:16:31.080 was not the major culprit at bad. It was like mechanically, 1:16:31.200 --> 1:16:35.400 one by one removing killing them all. Yeah. I mean, 1:16:35.400 --> 1:16:38.720 of course pollution and habitat instruction have a hand in 1:16:39.360 --> 1:16:43.720 any decline in his species numbers. Yeah, but this was 1:16:44.240 --> 1:16:47.599 directly tied to unrelated harvest. Yeah, but I mean there 1:16:47.680 --> 1:16:49.280 is like you get my distinction, right, like if you 1:16:49.280 --> 1:16:52.280 look at something, you know, the cormorant, when the cormaron 1:16:52.320 --> 1:16:56.559 was imperiled, the cormon was imperiled because of of like biotoxins, right, 1:16:56.600 --> 1:17:01.040 And certainly we lost certain or almost lost some avian 1:17:01.120 --> 1:17:05.439 predators from what was it was it DDT from from DUS. 1:17:05.439 --> 1:17:09.000 So it was like, you know, environmental factors drove them 1:17:09.040 --> 1:17:13.240 to your extinction. Compare that to sort of, um, you know, 1:17:13.280 --> 1:17:17.519 the American buffalo. You'd be like buy and large. They 1:17:17.520 --> 1:17:20.280 were mechanically removed, I mean like one, two, three, like 1:17:20.360 --> 1:17:22.360 kill kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill to the point 1:17:22.400 --> 1:17:25.240 where you killed them all. And that's why I couldn't understand, 1:17:25.280 --> 1:17:28.320 like so with gators, like the gator hunters literally just 1:17:28.840 --> 1:17:33.280 like got them all. Yep, completely unregulated. That's the story, right, 1:17:33.560 --> 1:17:36.680 I mean there's a fair bit of commercial harvest of 1:17:36.800 --> 1:17:40.479 wild gators. Now, well that's what saved them, ironically, is 1:17:40.520 --> 1:17:45.719 the regulation harvest actually saved them. And more than that, 1:17:46.520 --> 1:17:49.840 the utility of the American alligator as a natural resource 1:17:50.600 --> 1:17:54.720 became monetized in such a way that was reliant on 1:17:54.880 --> 1:17:58.800 successful wild populations. How do they how do they bake 1:17:58.920 --> 1:18:01.280 that up? So they were there were sort of two 1:18:01.320 --> 1:18:04.160 teams of people, one in southwest Louisiana and one in 1:18:04.240 --> 1:18:06.479 South Carolina that were sort of working towards the same 1:18:06.600 --> 1:18:09.080 end goal at the same time. And I'm not sure 1:18:09.080 --> 1:18:14.679 if they collaborated or not, but essentially how it happened 1:18:14.760 --> 1:18:18.960 was that was that ranchers and harvesters, especially ranchers for 1:18:19.000 --> 1:18:26.160 eggs for hides, had to harvest eggs from wild populations 1:18:26.400 --> 1:18:29.040 near where they were located or otherwise, and they had 1:18:29.080 --> 1:18:31.840 to return a bunch. But if you're monetizing, if you're 1:18:31.840 --> 1:18:34.880 making money off of the existence of eggs being out there, 1:18:35.479 --> 1:18:37.479 there's got to be eggs out there the next year. 1:18:38.040 --> 1:18:41.480 So really the amount of money that went into alligators 1:18:41.479 --> 1:18:45.880 as a natural resource saved the American alligator because now 1:18:45.920 --> 1:18:48.600 all these folks need there to be a bunch of 1:18:48.640 --> 1:18:52.800 alligators out there every year. Like if you based it 1:18:52.840 --> 1:18:56.839 on pounds of meat or number of hides like total 1:18:56.960 --> 1:18:59.960 in the US, what would be the percentage coming from 1:19:00.160 --> 1:19:05.320 wild gators versus like farm If you had to guess, 1:19:06.240 --> 1:19:13.479 I've seen these stats, I I would venture that most 1:19:13.520 --> 1:19:19.240 of the hide industry comes from wild populations. But they're 1:19:19.280 --> 1:19:22.880 required to put back a ton of alligators every year 1:19:22.920 --> 1:19:25.879 that they're not allowed to harvest. They have size limits 1:19:25.880 --> 1:19:28.120 and things, well they have they have I think in 1:19:28.200 --> 1:19:30.960 most states they have proportioned limits. So whatever you collect 1:19:30.960 --> 1:19:33.160 in eggs, you got to put half of that back 1:19:33.320 --> 1:19:35.920 or a quarter of that back or third of that back. 1:19:36.560 --> 1:19:39.560 But I would imagine that the meat industry recreationally is 1:19:39.600 --> 1:19:45.040 all from wild harvest. But I'm not sure about you know, 1:19:45.560 --> 1:19:49.760 large scale meat operations. I've never seen a farm that 1:19:50.080 --> 1:19:53.280 whose sole product is alligator meat, but I'm sure they 1:19:53.320 --> 1:19:56.759 exist because they traffic and hides. Two. Yeah, I mean hides. 1:19:57.040 --> 1:19:59.760 Hides is where the money is. That's the big money, 1:20:00.080 --> 1:20:04.320 and that's for boots sold. One did I did I 1:20:04.360 --> 1:20:06.400 miss it? How did they get the eggs back? And 1:20:06.920 --> 1:20:09.479 how does that come into play? So I think most 1:20:09.520 --> 1:20:14.799 states have it where you harvest eggs, incubate eggs, hatch 1:20:14.880 --> 1:20:17.760 them out, and then a large number of what you 1:20:17.800 --> 1:20:21.280 hatch out has to go back to where you harvested 1:20:21.360 --> 1:20:24.719 those eggs. Why not just leave half the eggs because 1:20:24.720 --> 1:20:27.280 there's the probably a higher likelihood that it's gonna be 1:20:27.320 --> 1:20:30.720 a successful It's probably a higher likelihood there'll be a 1:20:30.720 --> 1:20:33.640 successful reproduction if you hatch them yourself. You look at 1:20:33.640 --> 1:20:36.320 when they're doing stuff, when you're doing stuff with salmon, 1:20:36.360 --> 1:20:38.439 like you could take a salmon. You take a salmon 1:20:38.439 --> 1:20:42.000 out of the wild, take its eggs, and then you 1:20:42.040 --> 1:20:46.880 bring them um, you rear them. You know you're you're 1:20:46.880 --> 1:20:51.040 close to like one hundred percent of those eggs putting 1:20:51.040 --> 1:20:53.760 off a fingerling. Yeah, I mean I think in the 1:20:53.800 --> 1:20:57.000 while it'd be like maybe like zero or one percent 1:20:57.040 --> 1:21:00.120 would make it that far. Yeah, they do leave a 1:21:00.200 --> 1:21:02.120 lot of nests out there. I mean, it's impossible to 1:21:02.160 --> 1:21:06.639 harvest all these nests. But there's some great data out 1:21:06.680 --> 1:21:11.800 of central Florida in the nineties that suggests that the 1:21:11.880 --> 1:21:15.840 number of eggs that are laid in a specific area, 1:21:16.120 --> 1:21:19.160 only about a third or less of those eggs reach 1:21:19.560 --> 1:21:25.120 one year old after hatching. So survivorship is super low anyway, 1:21:25.200 --> 1:21:28.479 So to leave them out there would be kind of 1:21:28.479 --> 1:21:33.800 a futile task. But it's a great story. How do 1:21:33.840 --> 1:21:37.400 they go coovery of the alligator? How talk about like 1:21:37.400 --> 1:21:39.519 like walk me through how an alligator? Like what is 1:21:39.520 --> 1:21:44.840 its reproductive cycle? So yeah, American alligator typically lays its 1:21:44.880 --> 1:21:49.040 eggs June July, and you can tell. So if you 1:21:49.120 --> 1:21:53.920 live in Texas, egg laying anecdotally starts in Florida and 1:21:54.120 --> 1:21:57.919 spreads westward. So if you have egg laying in Florida, 1:21:58.200 --> 1:22:00.400 you can expect it to be upcoming. An all Obama, 1:22:00.680 --> 1:22:02.880 you can expect it to be upcoming in Louisiana and 1:22:02.960 --> 1:22:06.599 finally over there in East Texas. What time of year 1:22:06.640 --> 1:22:09.160 does she does she will she make love with a 1:22:09.160 --> 1:22:11.920 lot of males or are they somewhat monogamous? Yeah, No, 1:22:11.960 --> 1:22:16.120 alligators have sperm storage and multiple paternity. We know that 1:22:16.160 --> 1:22:19.880 from a lot of work actually in Louisiana. So yeah, 1:22:19.920 --> 1:22:22.599 there'll be more than one So she'll breed with multiple 1:22:22.640 --> 1:22:26.519 males and then so those eggs could bear multiple fathers, 1:22:26.520 --> 1:22:30.120 it could be represented by multiple fathers. Yeah, some data 1:22:30.160 --> 1:22:33.840 from Cayman populations suggests that even though females are breeding 1:22:33.840 --> 1:22:37.040 with multiple males, there's really only one or two males 1:22:37.080 --> 1:22:41.920 that sire pretty much all the eggs. But it's possible 1:22:43.520 --> 1:22:46.760 and so that that courtship occurs, you know in springtime, 1:22:46.800 --> 1:22:50.560 you know in South Florida, mark April, and then a 1:22:50.600 --> 1:22:53.120 little bit later as you move more north and more west, 1:22:53.760 --> 1:22:57.560 and then eggs are oviposited. You know. Nests are constructed 1:22:57.880 --> 1:23:02.360 essentially overnight and laid in mid June, late June, early July, 1:23:02.760 --> 1:23:05.120 laying out and they're laying out on the surface and 1:23:05.200 --> 1:23:07.559 like a little nest. The mounds. Yeah, so they'll build 1:23:07.600 --> 1:23:10.680 mounds of like degraded vegetation. Well, they'll it won't be 1:23:11.479 --> 1:23:14.000 it won't be rotting vegetation at the time, but they'll 1:23:14.000 --> 1:23:20.160 harvest you know, spartana grass, whatever sort of vegetations available 1:23:20.479 --> 1:23:25.479 on the on the edge of the water, and they'll 1:23:25.520 --> 1:23:28.439 build a mound of it and then lay their eggs 1:23:28.680 --> 1:23:31.360 within that mound and then seal the mound up. So 1:23:31.360 --> 1:23:34.240 it's how many eggs, it's a pretty compact little little thing. 1:23:34.720 --> 1:23:37.160 How many eggs. The lowest I've ever seen is nineteen 1:23:37.360 --> 1:23:39.320 and the most eggs I've ever seen in nest is 1:23:39.360 --> 1:23:42.639 fifty two. But I think you would say they would 1:23:42.680 --> 1:23:46.800 probably average thirty five eggs or so. Damn. So there's 1:23:46.800 --> 1:23:49.000 a lot of disparity in the number of eggs that 1:23:49.600 --> 1:23:52.519 a mother will overposit. Man, you can see it. It 1:23:52.560 --> 1:23:55.120 would be impactful. If you took those and protected them 1:23:55.120 --> 1:23:58.400 and incubated them, you get a lot of returns, a 1:23:58.400 --> 1:24:01.840 lot of gators back out there. So then continuing the timeline, 1:24:02.240 --> 1:24:05.840 what do we got we're in early July and by 1:24:05.880 --> 1:24:13.200 that nest if yes, so alligators typically wow, typically they're 1:24:13.360 --> 1:24:15.920 they don't. But I would say about a third of 1:24:15.960 --> 1:24:19.960 alligators we'll hang out by that nest. Really early to 1:24:20.080 --> 1:24:23.920 start um and then they'll sort of ease off the 1:24:23.960 --> 1:24:26.960 nest during the middle of development and then return to 1:24:27.000 --> 1:24:30.160 the nest to assist with hatching. Well they do. Yeah, 1:24:30.200 --> 1:24:32.519 so they're they're really good moms in there and they 1:24:32.520 --> 1:24:35.000 come and they are they reliable to come back to 1:24:35.040 --> 1:24:39.840 their own nests like another year. No, no no, no, I'm 1:24:39.880 --> 1:24:43.519 saying it wouldn't be like like she's going to return 1:24:43.560 --> 1:24:46.200 to the nest she laid right, She's not gonna just 1:24:46.400 --> 1:24:49.320 randomly just go to any old nest like she knows. 1:24:49.520 --> 1:24:52.080 They have fidelity to their own nest. They do, although 1:24:52.120 --> 1:24:54.080 there's some really cool data out of South Carolina that 1:24:54.160 --> 1:24:57.679 suggests that there's potentially some kind of altruism and nest defense, 1:24:57.840 --> 1:25:04.760 so like they found footage of multiple mothers defending the 1:25:04.800 --> 1:25:07.080 same nest and they were sort of unsure why at 1:25:07.080 --> 1:25:11.240 that time. But normally the assumption is that, yeah, mom 1:25:11.560 --> 1:25:13.800 will hang out by her nest in a wallow and 1:25:13.920 --> 1:25:17.200 defend it or not from a predator. And there's a 1:25:17.240 --> 1:25:20.000 degree to which they defend, Like if you pull up 1:25:20.000 --> 1:25:23.280 in a boat, some moms will just run away and 1:25:23.560 --> 1:25:26.240 hang out one hundred yards away and say what are 1:25:26.240 --> 1:25:29.040 you doing in my nest. Other moms will attempt to 1:25:29.120 --> 1:25:33.360 roll the boat over, so you get it from time 1:25:33.400 --> 1:25:39.280 to time, but alligators are probably the most frequently. They 1:25:39.720 --> 1:25:43.840 will attend and defend the nest as frequently as any 1:25:43.960 --> 1:25:48.240 other species of crocodilia. Got it, so she'll hang out 1:25:48.479 --> 1:25:50.160 lay it, and then how long is incubator or how 1:25:50.160 --> 1:25:54.080 long do they lay there? That's incubation, rightation alligators on 1:25:54.160 --> 1:25:57.280 average about sixty five days. And is it true that 1:25:57.320 --> 1:26:01.679 the temperature determines the sex of hackling? Yes, it is true, 1:26:01.720 --> 1:26:04.080 so that nest will throw all males or all females 1:26:04.120 --> 1:26:08.599 depending It could depending on the temperature. But usually there's 1:26:08.600 --> 1:26:14.200 a well, usually there's a thermal regime within the nest 1:26:14.360 --> 1:26:19.960 cavity that allows for potentially both sexes to be produced. 1:26:20.320 --> 1:26:24.920 But it could be manipulated where thirty eggs are all male. Yeah, 1:26:24.960 --> 1:26:26.600 if you put it in a lab and put it 1:26:26.640 --> 1:26:29.040 at like whatever, you set the temperature for, like seventy 1:26:29.040 --> 1:26:32.040 eight degrees yeah, or whatever the hell it is may be. 1:26:32.439 --> 1:26:34.720 Yea like eighty one and a half to eighty three 1:26:34.920 --> 1:26:37.960 fair knights is the temperature regime for one sex. Yeah, 1:26:38.040 --> 1:26:42.120 so it's they exhibit FMF sex termination it's called type 1:26:42.160 --> 1:26:46.160 two sex termination. So at low incubation temperatures you get females, 1:26:46.760 --> 1:26:49.479 and that the sort of narrow range you get males, 1:26:49.520 --> 1:26:53.840 and when you get above that second pivotal temp you 1:26:53.920 --> 1:26:56.840 get females again. But there's some argument that that upper 1:26:57.080 --> 1:27:01.840 pivotal temper has never reached more more coming on that 1:27:02.200 --> 1:27:04.840 next time. I'm here, what happens working on that right now? 1:27:04.920 --> 1:27:08.599 Somebody's not me. What happens if that nest gets rated 1:27:08.600 --> 1:27:11.559 by a raccoon or whatever, all the eggs get destroyed. 1:27:11.600 --> 1:27:15.000 Does she just start over or she can't start over? 1:27:15.040 --> 1:27:17.519 She may wait till next year. There are a few 1:27:17.560 --> 1:27:21.040 species of crocodilian that have multiple clutches in the year, 1:27:21.080 --> 1:27:26.480 but those that's very rare. Okay, what's the primary raccoons? 1:27:27.400 --> 1:27:31.360 By far, raccoons and hogs that old bandit hogs like 1:27:32.760 --> 1:27:37.200 aigator eggs. I just have a question for You're saying 1:27:37.200 --> 1:27:41.720 within one nest, based on the temperature regime, you can 1:27:41.800 --> 1:27:45.439 have males and females. Is there any data on like 1:27:45.880 --> 1:27:50.800 how eggs are dispersed within the nest in terms of 1:27:50.800 --> 1:27:54.000 like an area under more vegetation, which would be colder 1:27:54.080 --> 1:27:57.680 or warmer or like if there's any kind of yeah, yeah, 1:27:57.720 --> 1:28:02.360 So those questions we thought would be really interesting to 1:28:02.400 --> 1:28:07.360 ask in whole nesting animals like the American crocodile. What 1:28:07.360 --> 1:28:09.919 we find an American alligator nest is that they're essentially 1:28:09.920 --> 1:28:14.880 within a compost pile of rotting vegetation, and the temperature 1:28:14.920 --> 1:28:19.519 seems to stay relatively hot and relatively stable in there. 1:28:19.920 --> 1:28:22.519 I mean, yeah, there are nests that that bridge that 1:28:22.680 --> 1:28:26.679 the lower pivotal temp which means males and females will 1:28:26.720 --> 1:28:29.800 thermally be produced. But we had the same idea as 1:28:29.800 --> 1:28:33.360 you in Costa Rica. So the American crocodiles dig holes 1:28:33.400 --> 1:28:36.439 in the sand and deposit their eggs in there, like 1:28:36.520 --> 1:28:39.400 similar to a turtle exactly like a turtle, yeah, just 1:28:39.520 --> 1:28:41.000 a lot more eggs and a lot bag. So they'll 1:28:41.040 --> 1:28:43.479 pull up on a sand bar and dig with their 1:28:43.520 --> 1:28:47.240 back feet and no deposit and then covered up back up. 1:28:47.840 --> 1:28:51.640 But we thought, yeah, if it's if it's under some shade, 1:28:51.760 --> 1:28:55.640 under a tree, then that may play a role in 1:28:55.720 --> 1:28:59.760 the thermal regime of that nest. If it's really deep 1:28:59.800 --> 1:29:02.400 in the sand exactly, then that will also probably play 1:29:02.400 --> 1:29:05.559 a role. But we actually found that neither of those 1:29:05.560 --> 1:29:11.960 things matter at all. They're completely uncorrelated to the thermal 1:29:12.040 --> 1:29:16.120 regimes of these nests. But what happens to be correlated 1:29:16.800 --> 1:29:21.360 is the egg size. So metabolic heating is playing more 1:29:21.400 --> 1:29:25.240 of a role in determining the thermal regime of these 1:29:25.280 --> 1:29:29.120 nests than how much shade or how deep the nest is. 1:29:29.720 --> 1:29:33.840 That's a sample size of you know, fourteen or fifteen 1:29:33.920 --> 1:29:38.519 or so nests, which was hard enough to get. Meaning 1:29:38.720 --> 1:29:45.280 the same way that the human body generates heat metaball heating, yep, metabolism. 1:29:45.439 --> 1:29:49.479 Heat is given off x organic reactions. So the larger 1:29:50.840 --> 1:29:53.400 warmth is generating warmth in the nest. Yeah, So we 1:29:53.439 --> 1:29:55.720 put in these little I couldn't be that you put 1:29:55.720 --> 1:29:58.479 your hand on and it felt warm. It's just like slight, 1:29:58.640 --> 1:30:02.360 right U two point five degrees c. So we put 1:30:02.439 --> 1:30:04.280 an eye button in the center of the nest cavity, 1:30:04.960 --> 1:30:07.360 and then we put an eye button at the exact 1:30:07.360 --> 1:30:10.479 same depth of that eye button a meter away from 1:30:10.640 --> 1:30:14.760 the nest. And we found that the average difference in 1:30:15.080 --> 1:30:20.280 temperatures between those two little eye button loggers was two 1:30:20.280 --> 1:30:24.040 and a half degree celsius, which is a lot hm. Right, 1:30:24.120 --> 1:30:27.160 what is now, kid? There somebody google that it's got 1:30:27.160 --> 1:30:29.599 to be like five or six degrees fahrenheit or more 1:30:30.800 --> 1:30:35.960 so when those little baby alligators are ready to how 1:30:36.000 --> 1:30:39.519 many days gestation or not gestation? Alligators incubation about sixty 1:30:39.520 --> 1:30:42.559 five on average. So she lays them, Yeah, and she 1:30:42.640 --> 1:30:46.960 might scraaddle, she could, she might yep, but then she 1:30:47.080 --> 1:30:51.120 might come back around hatch time. Well, she usually stays 1:30:51.160 --> 1:30:55.719 there for a week or two after ovipositing, defends the nest, 1:30:55.840 --> 1:30:59.200 is hanging around. You see them at the nest. And 1:30:59.240 --> 1:31:01.519 then we find that the frequency of attendance goes down 1:31:01.640 --> 1:31:05.599 towards the middle of incubation, likely because mom's got other 1:31:05.640 --> 1:31:07.519 things to do. She has probably hasn't eaten in a 1:31:07.520 --> 1:31:11.360 couple of weeks, she needs to seek some other thermal 1:31:11.439 --> 1:31:14.880 refugia besides sitting on the bank of a swamp, you know, 1:31:16.439 --> 1:31:20.519 and then returns a week or two before hatching and 1:31:20.720 --> 1:31:22.880 hangs out with them. And does she need to dig 1:31:22.920 --> 1:31:25.960 them out or they dig themselves out like turtles. Yeah, 1:31:26.000 --> 1:31:32.920 I mean, there's there's a lot of interesting stories that 1:31:33.080 --> 1:31:38.120 alligator moms will open the nest for them and remove 1:31:38.240 --> 1:31:42.800 them and sort of carry them over to where they 1:31:42.800 --> 1:31:45.320 need to be in the water or whatever. But most 1:31:45.320 --> 1:31:47.320 of the nest that I approach that have hatched, that 1:31:47.360 --> 1:31:50.479 doesn't happen. The eggs just hatch, and the hatch things 1:31:50.520 --> 1:31:53.920 just sort of move around and wriggle themselves to the top. 1:31:54.240 --> 1:31:59.920 How long are they when they come out? Six inches seven? 1:32:00.439 --> 1:32:04.080 But they do make a lot of sounds. So alligator 1:32:04.160 --> 1:32:06.639 hatchlings in the egg when they're ready to hatch will 1:32:06.800 --> 1:32:10.880 kind of make this little chirp noise like dude, ye 1:32:11.760 --> 1:32:14.000 or you hear the eggs doing that. Yeah, And that 1:32:14.160 --> 1:32:19.479 signals hatching to occur theoretically in the other eggs around 1:32:19.520 --> 1:32:23.840 that eggs, and it also theoretically we have but it 1:32:23.880 --> 1:32:26.400 also helps mom know that it's time to come over. 1:32:27.080 --> 1:32:30.960 Really yeah, I mean that's the That was the nice story. 1:32:32.000 --> 1:32:34.200 I was talking to a guy that hunt they're hunting 1:32:34.320 --> 1:32:38.240 gators down in Florida, and they use that sound like 1:32:38.280 --> 1:32:41.400 if they're looking for a big gator, don't make that 1:32:41.479 --> 1:32:43.439 sound and get that thing to like show itself. I 1:32:43.520 --> 1:32:45.680 do it all the time. Yeah, Yeah, it works, It 1:32:45.720 --> 1:32:49.640 works pretty well. Ye be honest, is next calling U 1:32:50.200 --> 1:32:53.760 and they're there? Yeah, do a gator way way of 1:32:54.040 --> 1:32:59.040 baby gator. You said two and a half degrees celsius. Yeah, Chris, 1:32:59.040 --> 1:33:02.280 that's four and a half degree fair knight really feel 1:33:02.320 --> 1:33:09.360 it though? Yeah it's hotter. Wait what like the difference? 1:33:09.400 --> 1:33:12.200 So like, so if something is two and ashcree celsius 1:33:12.200 --> 1:33:18.240 more than it would be fourie fare kneit um. When 1:33:18.280 --> 1:33:19.680 she comes back to hang out of them, what is 1:33:19.720 --> 1:33:23.360 she actually doing? I mean, do the little baby gators 1:33:23.400 --> 1:33:25.479 come out, let's say twenty of them come crawling out 1:33:25.479 --> 1:33:28.920 of the mud. Yeah, they don't imprint on her like 1:33:29.240 --> 1:33:32.240 I mean, does she is she able to sort of 1:33:32.439 --> 1:33:35.880 manipulate the group and orchestrate and be like I'll show 1:33:35.960 --> 1:33:38.360 y'all how to catch shrimp? Like do you know what 1:33:38.360 --> 1:33:40.000 I mean? Like, what is she really doing? Or she 1:33:40.120 --> 1:33:43.760 just keeping predators away from the general vicinity? Yeah? I 1:33:43.760 --> 1:33:45.920 think most of her role at that time is trying 1:33:45.920 --> 1:33:50.400 to not let herrings and raccoons and large stuff eat them. Okay, 1:33:50.920 --> 1:33:54.639 she's a presence, she's exactly she's there to say, don't 1:33:54.640 --> 1:33:57.360 come eat my hatchlings kind of thing. But there's I mean, 1:33:57.400 --> 1:34:01.000 there are some some crocodilians that are, you know, really 1:34:01.040 --> 1:34:05.519 incredible from a parental aspect, like the male garial in 1:34:05.520 --> 1:34:08.360 India will essentially let all the hatchlings ride on its 1:34:08.400 --> 1:34:13.800 back for quite a long time after after hatching there there, 1:34:13.920 --> 1:34:16.599 I would say that of all the vertebrates that I've 1:34:17.000 --> 1:34:21.280 ever learned about, my favorite parents are crocodilians. I'm also biased, 1:34:22.960 --> 1:34:24.559 but take that for what. Is there a fair bit 1:34:24.600 --> 1:34:28.759 of cannibalism that goes on. Oh yeah, at larger sizes. 1:34:28.800 --> 1:34:32.520 I mean I remember going out collecting samples in Louisiana 1:34:32.560 --> 1:34:35.559 and seeing an eight foot alligator with a four foot 1:34:35.600 --> 1:34:37.639 alligator hanging out of its mouth, But not so much 1:34:37.680 --> 1:34:40.120 the little babies. Yeah. I mean, if you're a male 1:34:40.160 --> 1:34:42.439 alligator and you hear that sound, you're gonna come eat 1:34:42.479 --> 1:34:45.679 those babies. Oh that's why they're liking that sound. Yeah, 1:34:45.720 --> 1:34:47.160 I mean, that's why it's easy to use to get 1:34:47.200 --> 1:34:51.040 an alligator to show itself, because I mean, I wants 1:34:51.080 --> 1:34:53.479 to eat it, or a female that's outside of the 1:34:53.479 --> 1:34:56.920 reproductive time probably will want a snack. Then there's no 1:34:57.040 --> 1:35:03.720 paternal The males have no as far as we know, 1:35:03.880 --> 1:35:07.160 no comprehension of what females and what nest they sired. 1:35:07.160 --> 1:35:10.639 I mean, they're just they're out of the picture in alligators. Yeah, that. Yeah, 1:35:10.720 --> 1:35:14.120 that's my understanding. There's no paternal investment really in the clutch, 1:35:14.760 --> 1:35:18.080 and they'll they'll mild those little babies down, they'll eat 1:35:18.160 --> 1:35:24.960 them up. Yeah, huh yeah, And that's probably I mean, 1:35:25.000 --> 1:35:28.160 I would say that's true for most crocodilian species, where 1:35:29.040 --> 1:35:35.519 the paternal aspect is effectively irrelevant after fertilization. When they're 1:35:35.520 --> 1:35:38.360 real little like that, six inches long. Yeah, what are 1:35:38.360 --> 1:35:41.679 they trying to feed down? Bugs and stuff? Little bugs? 1:35:41.720 --> 1:35:43.880 I mean for a long time, they probably don't even eat. 1:35:44.400 --> 1:35:46.679 You know, they come out with a yolk sac that's 1:35:46.720 --> 1:35:50.120 hanging behind him, that's not fully shut yet, So in 1:35:50.160 --> 1:35:52.240 the a they've got this yolk sac on their belly, 1:35:52.600 --> 1:35:55.559 and when they hatch out, there's essentially a I mean 1:35:55.600 --> 1:35:58.840 you can see it still there. And then eventually the 1:35:58.920 --> 1:36:01.479 yolk will get absorbed in the skin will heal around it. 1:36:02.160 --> 1:36:04.960 So they're sustaining on that for a good while, I 1:36:04.960 --> 1:36:07.120 don't really think, I don't know how long, but a 1:36:07.120 --> 1:36:11.880 little while before they start getting there swimming legs under 1:36:11.920 --> 1:36:14.839 them and can go eat bugs and little fish and 1:36:14.880 --> 1:36:17.439 stuff like that. But they hang by the nest for 1:36:17.479 --> 1:36:20.080 a couple of weeks. You know, they'll hang arout by it, 1:36:20.120 --> 1:36:23.800 They'll hang around. Yeah, what are you guys, you or 1:36:23.840 --> 1:36:29.240 your colleagues, what are your theories on in South Florida? 1:36:29.479 --> 1:36:35.720 What are your theories on what's happening with the dynamic 1:36:35.880 --> 1:36:41.000 between the pythons and gators? Like you hear these crazy 1:36:41.040 --> 1:36:43.080 cases where like a python grabs the gator and it 1:36:43.160 --> 1:36:45.200 swallows it in the gator fights his way back out 1:36:45.240 --> 1:36:48.759 of its gut. Yeah, I mean, what is there anything 1:36:48.920 --> 1:36:52.080 substantial going on here between? Is it like a new 1:36:52.320 --> 1:36:56.240 great food source? Is it negligible impact? Yeah? I mean 1:36:56.280 --> 1:36:57.960 I think there's a lot better people to ask than 1:36:58.000 --> 1:37:02.000 me who work on crocodilians and Florida about that particular topic. 1:37:02.120 --> 1:37:05.519 But for me, not knowing much you know, in that area, 1:37:06.400 --> 1:37:09.240 I would say that it's kind of a negligible thing. 1:37:09.960 --> 1:37:13.479 I mean, yeah, you get these interesting stories of large 1:37:13.520 --> 1:37:17.520 pythons that have killed in our eating a smaller alligator, 1:37:17.880 --> 1:37:21.240 and you see potentially alligators with a snake in their mouth. 1:37:21.320 --> 1:37:23.880 But I think you just sort of introduced one and 1:37:23.960 --> 1:37:28.120 more organism to the assemblage there that that gets eaten 1:37:28.280 --> 1:37:31.160 or is eating, you know, is eating or eats can 1:37:31.240 --> 1:37:34.759 chomp on each other. But I don't. I don't see 1:37:34.840 --> 1:37:41.400 that as a necessarily a prevalent, mainstay, viable resource for 1:37:41.560 --> 1:37:45.960 either one of those species. Speaking of pythons, we had 1:37:46.000 --> 1:37:48.040 a guy he didn't work on this project, but his 1:37:48.200 --> 1:37:51.280 colleagues did. Is they were trying to figure out how 1:37:51.280 --> 1:37:57.760 far pythons can spread. Yeah, and I feel like it 1:37:57.920 --> 1:38:02.360 involved making these little enclosure like barying pythons or something 1:38:02.400 --> 1:38:06.439 in the for the winter and in the spring see 1:38:06.479 --> 1:38:08.800 that they were dead or alive. Anyways, they drew a 1:38:08.840 --> 1:38:12.639 sort of hypothetical line, I mean how far north thing? Sorry, Yeah, 1:38:12.680 --> 1:38:14.320 they're trying to be like, okay, in the future house, 1:38:14.439 --> 1:38:18.240 like at what point will what would be the climate restriction? Sure, 1:38:18.640 --> 1:38:21.040 and they drew a rough line maybe went through something 1:38:21.080 --> 1:38:24.080 like I can't remember if it reached South Caroline or not, 1:38:24.280 --> 1:38:28.240 or feasibly they could like reliably survive the winter. Yeah, 1:38:29.320 --> 1:38:35.680 what prevents gate? Like why why can't we have alligators 1:38:35.680 --> 1:38:40.639 in the Great Lakes? It's too cold? That's it. Yeah, 1:38:40.680 --> 1:38:42.880 I mean that's obvious, but that that that is what 1:38:42.960 --> 1:38:45.519 it is, because it would do the cold would do 1:38:45.600 --> 1:38:49.240 what the cold would metabolically shut them down to a 1:38:50.000 --> 1:38:53.840 state in which the when the temperatures were adequate in 1:38:53.880 --> 1:38:57.320 the summer, they would have they wouldn't be able to 1:38:57.360 --> 1:39:01.920 harvest enough resources to survive the extended period that's below 1:39:02.040 --> 1:39:05.880 their critical thermal mini So there's a realizing niche and 1:39:06.000 --> 1:39:13.800 a fundamental niche. Realizing niches. What aspects of your environment 1:39:14.439 --> 1:39:19.320 do you commonly see or are exposed to? A fundamental niches, 1:39:20.200 --> 1:39:25.880 what aspects of this undimensional hyper volume of environment will 1:39:26.439 --> 1:39:32.799 kill you or not? And the thermal regime of somewhere 1:39:32.840 --> 1:39:36.040 that far north is outside of the fundamental niche of 1:39:36.040 --> 1:39:39.800 an American alligator. So it's a length of exposure thing. Yea. 1:39:40.400 --> 1:39:43.679 You see them with their nose up in North Carolina. Yeah, 1:39:43.720 --> 1:39:45.760 and the ice and that kind of stuff. Yeah, but 1:39:45.840 --> 1:39:49.920 they can't sustain that for I mean six months of 1:39:49.960 --> 1:39:53.000 the year. It feels like up here, you know, it'd 1:39:53.040 --> 1:39:55.000 be cool though. I wish they were in the Great Lakes. Yeah. 1:39:55.040 --> 1:39:59.400 If you what's crazy? If you think, um, you imagine 1:39:59.400 --> 1:40:03.960 a grizz on the north slope, you know, grizzly in 1:40:04.000 --> 1:40:05.960 a lot of places they're black bears, and a lot 1:40:06.000 --> 1:40:08.560 of parts of their range they're spending more months underground. 1:40:08.600 --> 1:40:11.479 They are up, yeah, up and about they're spending more 1:40:11.520 --> 1:40:15.879 months not not foraging. Yeah, spending more months not foraging 1:40:15.880 --> 1:40:19.080 than foraging. Yeah, but that would become bad news for 1:40:19.120 --> 1:40:21.559 a gator. Yeah, I mean, aside from just the temperature 1:40:21.560 --> 1:40:23.880 being so called that it kills them. Oh, gotcha know? 1:40:24.920 --> 1:40:27.280 And then uh, well how long can they make it 1:40:27.360 --> 1:40:35.120 between meals? Yeah, I mean yeah, I think that that 1:40:35.520 --> 1:40:39.719 crocodilians can survive in theory months without a meal. From 1:40:39.720 --> 1:40:42.960 a sort of low metabolic standpoint, right, we talked about 1:40:43.000 --> 1:40:48.599 the animals estivating um in Costa Rica. That's two three 1:40:48.640 --> 1:40:55.760 months without literally no chance to eat, right, Um, So metabolically, 1:40:55.800 --> 1:40:59.280 since they're sort of low profile on that, they can 1:40:59.360 --> 1:41:05.200 go a long long time without eating. But when they do, 1:41:05.600 --> 1:41:12.080 they utilize it relatively efficiently. From a cellular perspective, I 1:41:12.120 --> 1:41:18.839 had a guy that guides on Okachobe, Captain Bob Stafford 1:41:18.880 --> 1:41:23.080 guides gator hunts on Okechobee, and he says, when he's 1:41:23.080 --> 1:41:28.400 gotten a client, okay, who wants a trophy gator. He says, 1:41:28.400 --> 1:41:33.719 a trophy gator is ten feet that in his mind 1:41:33.840 --> 1:41:35.960 is like trophy gator land. Okay, So when he has 1:41:35.960 --> 1:41:37.720 like a client that really wants a big gator. They're 1:41:37.720 --> 1:41:45.679 looking for a ten plus gator. How old is that? Yeah, 1:41:45.720 --> 1:41:50.120 that's a hard question because growth rates are directly correlated 1:41:50.160 --> 1:41:53.439 to the thermal environment and resource acquisition for that animal. 1:41:53.560 --> 1:41:55.280 So I'll give you an example. I know of a 1:41:56.120 --> 1:42:00.360 seventy five year old wild alligator in Okifinoki Swamp. He's 1:42:00.360 --> 1:42:04.040 alive right now. Well was in two thousand and seven. 1:42:04.400 --> 1:42:07.240 It was seventy five at the time, and that animals 1:42:07.280 --> 1:42:11.800 about twelve feet long. Seventy five years old, and he's 1:42:11.800 --> 1:42:13.960 twelve feet long, so I don't maybe a little bigger, 1:42:14.080 --> 1:42:16.920 but I don't know that you can draw, you know, 1:42:17.040 --> 1:42:22.880 a clear straight line between age and length. But I 1:42:22.880 --> 1:42:25.040 would imagine you could have one this twelve feet and 1:42:25.080 --> 1:42:27.479 sixty years old, right, or you could have one this 1:42:27.600 --> 1:42:30.360 fourteen feet and seventy five years old, right, A male, yeah, 1:42:30.360 --> 1:42:32.920 at that size. But I'll tell you. In Costa Rica, 1:42:33.040 --> 1:42:36.040 you know, we would mark hatchlings in hopes of finding 1:42:36.080 --> 1:42:39.120 them again and the next year, so we mark a 1:42:39.160 --> 1:42:42.000 hatchling that's also about you know, six or seven inches long. 1:42:42.800 --> 1:42:45.679 We found one the next year, twenty two kilometers away 1:42:45.680 --> 1:42:47.960 from where we marked it that was over a meter long. 1:42:49.920 --> 1:42:52.439 So what the heck is going on there? That thing 1:42:52.520 --> 1:42:56.040 grew incredibly fast. He went from six inches to roughly 1:42:56.720 --> 1:42:59.439 mid thirty three and a half feet yeah, to three 1:42:59.479 --> 1:43:03.000 and a half year really yeah, which I was blown 1:43:03.000 --> 1:43:05.280 away by. We found that someone more like someone moved 1:43:05.280 --> 1:43:09.919 your tag. Well, it's impossible someone's a scoot that's removed 1:43:09.960 --> 1:43:13.960 from the back. So they all get an individual ID number. 1:43:14.479 --> 1:43:17.040 But that makes me say, you know, I've always thought that, 1:43:17.080 --> 1:43:19.960 you know, in general of crocodilian will grow up like 1:43:20.320 --> 1:43:23.200 a foot a year if you're an alligator, which makes 1:43:23.200 --> 1:43:27.599 a nine foot long animal, you know, not nine years 1:43:27.640 --> 1:43:31.160 older or a little older. But that really changed my 1:43:31.200 --> 1:43:34.120 perspective on stuff like when you see a three meter 1:43:34.240 --> 1:43:38.000 animal in Costa Rica, do we really think that that's 1:43:38.000 --> 1:43:41.800 only three or four years old? Potentially? Like there needs 1:43:41.800 --> 1:43:44.599 to be a lot more investigation done on on that. 1:43:45.080 --> 1:43:48.560 What's the oldest you've heard about for them? For the 1:43:48.600 --> 1:43:52.160 American alliger, seventy five from Okay Finochi. But that so 1:43:52.280 --> 1:43:54.760 that as far as to end in the wild, that's 1:43:54.760 --> 1:43:56.880 the that's the top end that I've heard of. I 1:43:56.880 --> 1:43:59.680 wouldn't be surprised if they live eighty years, you know, 1:43:59.760 --> 1:44:03.439 for for a statistical outlier, but I would say forty 1:44:03.479 --> 1:44:05.840 five to sixty years. If you make it past that 1:44:05.920 --> 1:44:09.200 an initial small stage, you got a good shot. Older 1:44:09.240 --> 1:44:15.800 for crocs, sir h. Hard to say. Hard to say, 1:44:15.920 --> 1:44:21.519 especially if we're talking about that potentially super fast young 1:44:21.880 --> 1:44:25.360 rate of growth in Costa Rica. How how old are 1:44:25.400 --> 1:44:28.599 those monsters out there? Are they only fifteen or twenty? 1:44:28.640 --> 1:44:30.559 I mean, I don't, I don't know. I don't. I 1:44:30.560 --> 1:44:34.040 don't think we know. I bet Australia has a really 1:44:34.080 --> 1:44:37.200 good data on that for saltwater crocodiles because they and 1:44:37.200 --> 1:44:40.280 when they get to the end of their lifespan, just 1:44:40.400 --> 1:44:44.040 like us, they just they age out. They go. Yeah. Week, 1:44:44.280 --> 1:44:48.240 I found a dead croc sitting on the bank. I 1:44:48.360 --> 1:44:51.360 was actually on a on a tour in Costa Rica, 1:44:51.600 --> 1:44:54.400 helping with a tour and there was a crocodile on 1:44:54.479 --> 1:44:56.439 the bank and I said, let's go over and see 1:44:56.439 --> 1:44:59.400 that thing. And we approached it and it was just dead. 1:45:00.520 --> 1:45:04.960 No idea why, just got old and died there. He said, 1:45:04.960 --> 1:45:09.280 Boys on that bank and die a peaceful place. Yeah, 1:45:08.360 --> 1:45:11.920 I mean, never seen anything like that before. Yeah, And 1:45:11.920 --> 1:45:14.559 this thing was probably three and a half meters long, 1:45:15.439 --> 1:45:20.840 So like twelve thirteen. So what is what is? What 1:45:20.920 --> 1:45:23.360 do you call an adult alligator? How do you define 1:45:23.400 --> 1:45:26.639 an adult alligator? Like I was saying an adult wild turkey? Yeah, 1:45:27.120 --> 1:45:31.240 let's call it tom it's two full Yeah, yeah, we 1:45:31.400 --> 1:45:33.920 use that term. But at what age is he at? 1:45:33.920 --> 1:45:37.360 What age would you say like, that's a mature adult? Yeah? 1:45:37.400 --> 1:45:42.160 So when when they I would use the word adult 1:45:42.240 --> 1:45:46.080 when they're obviously of reproductive status. And give me a 1:45:46.160 --> 1:45:50.240 rough ballpart for a male seven eight feet for a 1:45:50.240 --> 1:45:55.960 female six six feet plus? Okay, once he gets to 1:45:56.040 --> 1:46:00.160 that size, is what's gonna kill him? Is that to 1:46:00.200 --> 1:46:05.000 be a human or another alligator? Okay, bigger alligator but yeah, 1:46:05.240 --> 1:46:10.680 humans or ecotoxins or another bigger bull alligator. What's the 1:46:10.840 --> 1:46:16.720 uh male female like max size difference? Yeah, males get 1:46:16.920 --> 1:46:20.120 get larger than female and that's like across the board 1:46:20.160 --> 1:46:25.040 with crocodilians or yeah pretty yeah, um, but I mean 1:46:25.240 --> 1:46:35.080 sexual dimorphism, good phrase, nice job. Yeah. I mean an 1:46:35.160 --> 1:46:38.879 adult male can you know pretty easily reach ten twelve 1:46:39.920 --> 1:46:43.760 fourteen feet? Um? I think the biggest female I've ever 1:46:43.880 --> 1:46:46.320 called caught was, you know, nine and a half feet 1:46:46.360 --> 1:46:49.320 and that's a that's a big female, got it. So 1:46:49.320 --> 1:46:51.120 when people are like one in the case, these guys 1:46:51.200 --> 1:46:54.960 hunting trophy gators are hunting. Those are males. Yeah, they're 1:46:55.040 --> 1:46:58.120 hunting big bull males, usually open water. Is there any 1:46:58.400 --> 1:47:02.320 visual like if you were looking at justica pile of crocodiles, 1:47:02.360 --> 1:47:05.280 could you, let's say they're all roughly the same size, 1:47:05.360 --> 1:47:07.599 could you pick out the males and the females anyway 1:47:07.600 --> 1:47:11.200 to do like a physical attribute, you know that becomes 1:47:11.320 --> 1:47:14.559 pronounced at a certain year. I had a student that 1:47:14.720 --> 1:47:18.840 was interested in that question and utilized a tool called 1:47:18.880 --> 1:47:23.240 geometric morphometrics, which is a shape quantifics a lot of morphs. Yeah, 1:47:23.280 --> 1:47:27.439 geometric morphometrics. It's a shape quantification tool where he took 1:47:27.520 --> 1:47:30.479 photos of heads of males and photos of heads of 1:47:30.920 --> 1:47:34.120 females and sort of allowed the software to see if 1:47:34.120 --> 1:47:39.960 there were any subtle differences. And there are. I don't 1:47:39.960 --> 1:47:42.679 remember what they were because we haven't published those data yet. 1:47:43.160 --> 1:47:49.680 But I think that I have a little instinct to 1:47:49.800 --> 1:47:51.800 say that's a male and that's a female, but to 1:47:51.800 --> 1:47:57.439 be able to describe, like they can't explain what they're 1:47:57.439 --> 1:47:59.680 doing when they do it. Yeah, And I think a 1:47:59.680 --> 1:48:02.720 lot of valigator Bible just might have that. You know, 1:48:02.760 --> 1:48:05.439 when you look at that and say that's a male, 1:48:05.560 --> 1:48:09.160 but there's no clear thing for the average person be like, 1:48:09.240 --> 1:48:11.759 that's a no, And I don't even think it's clear 1:48:11.800 --> 1:48:15.200 to us. Like when I'm doing it, I say, seventy 1:48:15.200 --> 1:48:17.840 percent in my mind, that's a male. Yeah, but am 1:48:17.880 --> 1:48:22.000 I am? I right? That's like that blackbear hunters. Well, 1:48:22.040 --> 1:48:25.040 there a range of black bears where it's like they're 1:48:25.080 --> 1:48:27.120 of a size that you're like, I don't know, could 1:48:27.200 --> 1:48:30.400 be you know, but now and then, well, Yanni was 1:48:30.439 --> 1:48:32.120 telling me the other day, when you see a mountain 1:48:32.160 --> 1:48:36.240 lion with the big forehead wrinkles, explain that the once 1:48:36.320 --> 1:48:39.240 that look real angry. Yeah, they got the fat rolls 1:48:39.280 --> 1:48:43.439 on their forehead. It's actually a vertical crease. It's a 1:48:43.560 --> 1:48:45.880 vertical crease. Okay, I've ever talking about that. It looks 1:48:46.120 --> 1:48:48.040 like darker than the rest of the day. When you 1:48:48.040 --> 1:48:50.280 see that vertical crease, you're looking at a big male 1:48:51.439 --> 1:49:03.280 or or so they say, Yeah, do you you ever 1:49:03.280 --> 1:49:05.280 eat alligators? Or you or you don't? Are they not 1:49:05.320 --> 1:49:08.240 advertising to you? Oh they're great? Yeah? How many how 1:49:08.280 --> 1:49:12.759 many times a year to eat alligator? Well? Maybe three? 1:49:13.520 --> 1:49:17.320 I make an alligator sauce pecant of the old old 1:49:17.360 --> 1:49:22.360 Louisiana recipe that is just dynamite. Okay. It's a tomato based, 1:49:23.479 --> 1:49:28.280 rue based sort of soupy stew. And it's hot, it's spicy, 1:49:29.240 --> 1:49:32.080 and uh put my alligator meat in there. Oh man, 1:49:32.360 --> 1:49:34.120 So I know you're fisherman. Do you have you ever 1:49:34.200 --> 1:49:36.720 hunted gators or just get meats somewhere else? I just 1:49:36.760 --> 1:49:41.519 buy it from the sustainably harvested meat that's sold. You 1:49:41.600 --> 1:49:44.200 never put in for gator permits or nothing. No. Let's 1:49:44.200 --> 1:49:45.960 say I handed you a gate or tag right now, 1:49:46.800 --> 1:49:49.560 would you be like sweet? Would you be like no, 1:49:50.000 --> 1:49:51.559 I'm not gonna go out in the wild and harvest 1:49:51.600 --> 1:49:55.040 an alligator myself. I catch them all the time for 1:49:55.040 --> 1:49:56.720 for the stuff that I do for my job, But 1:49:57.120 --> 1:49:59.240 just not. You don't. You don't have that. You don't 1:49:59.280 --> 1:50:02.320 have that. It's just not when you guys are catching 1:50:02.360 --> 1:50:05.880 them to do whatever research on an individual animal you 1:50:05.880 --> 1:50:07.800 want to do, how are you getting them? Are you 1:50:07.840 --> 1:50:10.880 putting hook baited hooks out or no, that'll hurt the thing. 1:50:11.600 --> 1:50:14.479 As a physiological ecologist, I need that thing to last 1:50:14.520 --> 1:50:16.920 a lot longer than after it deals with me, right, 1:50:17.520 --> 1:50:21.280 so we can catch them by hand. If they're small, 1:50:21.479 --> 1:50:24.680 we can catch them by a snare on a on 1:50:24.760 --> 1:50:28.400 a pole. So it literally takes like like a snare 1:50:28.640 --> 1:50:32.800 that makes like a lasso with a tree lock mechanism 1:50:33.160 --> 1:50:37.360 on it, and I electrical tape it to a cane 1:50:37.400 --> 1:50:41.120 pole and I'm on in a boat on the front 1:50:41.120 --> 1:50:43.680 of the boat, and I try to put that that 1:50:43.800 --> 1:50:47.840 open open part of the snare over its neck and 1:50:47.920 --> 1:50:50.240 yanket shut. And then as soon as I get it 1:50:50.240 --> 1:50:51.840 on the boat, I opened the snare get it off 1:50:51.840 --> 1:50:54.480 of them. So you're not setting snares for him, No, 1:50:54.760 --> 1:50:56.519 And when I was just the floor, we were talking 1:50:56.560 --> 1:50:59.320 about you know there's a conna bears, there's a body 1:50:59.360 --> 1:51:02.800 gripping trap, okay, one ten, two, twenty three thirty and 1:51:02.800 --> 1:51:05.600 then they've started to fill it in like one sixty. Anyways, 1:51:06.160 --> 1:51:08.920 mean seth or Tom about get some a eighties because 1:51:09.000 --> 1:51:11.200 we found some pinch points for gators that have been 1:51:11.280 --> 1:51:15.360 dynamite man, well yeah, eighty connor bear setting at little 1:51:15.600 --> 1:51:17.640 where these channels would neck down due would you'd be 1:51:17.680 --> 1:51:22.400 getting like, do you guys ever capture like real big ones? 1:51:22.439 --> 1:51:24.559 And how would do so? How are you doing that? 1:51:25.040 --> 1:51:29.479 Same way. Yeah, we'd use a snare, so you guys 1:51:29.479 --> 1:51:31.679 don't set like some kind of trap that that thing would. 1:51:31.720 --> 1:51:34.720 I've set traps for alligators before, but that's because I 1:51:34.840 --> 1:51:40.160 need specific individuals, like the mom that laid that nest, 1:51:40.760 --> 1:51:44.160 So I set the trap at a nest site. We're 1:51:44.240 --> 1:51:48.320 kind of I want only those that individual gator. It's 1:51:48.400 --> 1:51:51.320 essentially a two by four eight foot by three foot 1:51:51.360 --> 1:51:56.200 box that I wrap in chain link and has like 1:51:56.240 --> 1:51:59.439 a a piece of fence in the front where they 1:51:59.479 --> 1:52:01.439 go in the back and get a bait, not off 1:52:01.439 --> 1:52:03.160 of home, but just off off a thing and it 1:52:03.240 --> 1:52:05.960 pulls a pin in the door and then I get 1:52:06.040 --> 1:52:07.599 him the next morning and work them up and get 1:52:07.640 --> 1:52:10.400 them out. That's gotta be a hefty contraption. I've built 1:52:10.400 --> 1:52:12.479 probably four of them. Most of them burn up in 1:52:12.560 --> 1:52:16.320 marsh fires, to be honest. But I during a matter 1:52:16.360 --> 1:52:21.160 during my matters, I had really good successful Like how 1:52:21.200 --> 1:52:22.960 long is It's about eight feet long and you set 1:52:23.000 --> 1:52:25.640 it on the ground, setting on the ground so he's 1:52:25.680 --> 1:52:27.559 coming out of the water to come right well, like 1:52:27.600 --> 1:52:29.920 the front lip of it is at the water's end, 1:52:29.960 --> 1:52:34.439 and what are you baiting with? Chicken? Really like that yeah, 1:52:34.640 --> 1:52:38.360 people do that. I've had up on them. Yes, Oh 1:52:38.439 --> 1:52:41.800 my god, they oh my god. Yeah, they're tearing everything apart. 1:52:41.880 --> 1:52:43.680 They don't. But then you have to somehow get in 1:52:43.680 --> 1:52:46.280 the trap with it to work it out, and that's 1:52:46.320 --> 1:52:49.240 always problematic. What's the biggest gator you can rassle? I 1:52:49.240 --> 1:52:52.320 asked this to a guy the other day. This guy's 1:52:52.400 --> 1:52:56.160 name begins with alligator. Let's do many people down there? 1:52:56.200 --> 1:52:58.560 I realized, Yeah, I said, what's the biggest gator you 1:52:58.560 --> 1:53:00.920 can rassle? He said, you could rasp the ten foot gator. 1:53:00.960 --> 1:53:03.040 I'm like, how could that be true? The biggest alligator 1:53:03.040 --> 1:53:07.760 I've ever caught was ten ten fix. So really, yeah, 1:53:07.880 --> 1:53:11.160 by yourself, you're saying, but it was some else more 1:53:11.280 --> 1:53:13.759 than you do though. Yeah, I mean, it's all just rules. 1:53:13.800 --> 1:53:15.680 I mean, I know a guy who wrestles alligators better 1:53:15.680 --> 1:53:19.719 than anybody, and he's one hundred and forty pounds soaking wet. Okay, 1:53:19.760 --> 1:53:21.519 want me through it. Here he is, there's a gator 1:53:22.240 --> 1:53:25.200 ten fo there's a gator in the water. Let's say 1:53:25.200 --> 1:53:26.479 he's in the water and I'm on a boat with 1:53:26.520 --> 1:53:28.800 a headlamp and I see that in the water. How 1:53:28.880 --> 1:53:33.720 deeps the water six feet really eight feet though they 1:53:33.720 --> 1:53:35.680 had to be on a bank. But no, But now 1:53:35.680 --> 1:53:41.800 it depends visibility in the water. Is there visibility gin clear? Oh, 1:53:41.880 --> 1:53:45.040 well then it's cake. I win every time, like a 1:53:45.120 --> 1:53:48.840 chocolate shake. Then a gator wins almost every time on 1:53:48.960 --> 1:53:52.320 the top, and get the snare on like pretty good visibility, Yeah, 1:53:52.439 --> 1:53:58.000 so clear, but pretty chocolate six feet of water, ten 1:53:58.040 --> 1:54:01.240 foot gator. So usually we'll like approach it pretty slow, 1:54:01.280 --> 1:54:03.400 shut the motor off in a mud boat or something 1:54:03.439 --> 1:54:07.120 like that, and try to get close enough with angling 1:54:07.160 --> 1:54:10.120 the beam of the head lamp just off of the 1:54:10.120 --> 1:54:12.920 head so that the eye is still in sort of 1:54:12.920 --> 1:54:17.680 that peripheral light that's emitted, but it doesn't think that 1:54:17.720 --> 1:54:20.600 you're looking directly at it. Ye, these are secrets that 1:54:20.640 --> 1:54:23.479 I really shouldn't be sharing. Trade secrets. Trade secret I mean. 1:54:26.520 --> 1:54:29.920 And then uh, try to get near enough to put 1:54:29.960 --> 1:54:33.760 that snare around around its head and come about rastling it. Well, 1:54:33.800 --> 1:54:36.400 that's the first step. Then you bring it over to 1:54:36.440 --> 1:54:38.880 the boat because you can rassle them without a snare. 1:54:39.520 --> 1:54:43.320 You just mean in the water the circus and see 1:54:43.360 --> 1:54:46.120 a guy rastling a gator. Yeah, I mean, there are 1:54:46.120 --> 1:54:48.120 tons of people who do that really well in captive 1:54:48.200 --> 1:54:53.280 environments in South Florida. I mean there's there's folks. No, okay, 1:54:53.320 --> 1:54:55.040 so okay, I want to hear what you do. But 1:54:55.080 --> 1:54:56.880 I thought that like I thought it was a thing 1:54:56.880 --> 1:54:59.640 where like you grab the gator by the tail, he 1:54:59.760 --> 1:55:03.600 goes left, you manipulate his tail. Oh and yeah, I 1:55:03.640 --> 1:55:05.800 mean you can do that stuff if you're in an enclosure. 1:55:06.760 --> 1:55:09.440 I don't do that. I work in wild populations. You 1:55:09.600 --> 1:55:12.320 can't just walk up to an alligator and reliably catch it. 1:55:12.360 --> 1:55:14.520 I mean, I'm sure it's happened. Got people that are 1:55:14.520 --> 1:55:17.040 really good at this, but better than me. But but 1:55:17.160 --> 1:55:19.160 that's not like if you're gonna go get one tonight, 1:55:19.200 --> 1:55:21.280 that's not your plan, No, because usually I need to 1:55:21.280 --> 1:55:23.320 get one hundred in a month or something like that. 1:55:23.440 --> 1:55:28.680 So wasting that time plus the yeah, plus it's unsafe 1:55:28.760 --> 1:55:32.320 and would be um, you would be viewed poorly by 1:55:32.360 --> 1:55:35.720 my employer. We had we're friends with this guy who's 1:55:35.760 --> 1:55:39.560 a Turkey biologist. Yeah, I Heed was telling us a 1:55:39.600 --> 1:55:44.200 story about an unkillable gobbler. Is there like like old 1:55:44.320 --> 1:55:47.800 gators that are like uncatchable, like they hear the boat 1:55:47.840 --> 1:55:53.000 and they're just unkillable gobbler because someone killed the unkillable 1:55:53.040 --> 1:55:56.600 gobbler in a tree. Nope, but the new unkillable gobler 1:55:56.600 --> 1:56:04.240 telling me, hone uh. He said that, Um, they think 1:56:04.240 --> 1:56:08.320 they got a gobbler that as you're calling him in, 1:56:09.120 --> 1:56:12.000 he gets to a certain distance and then flies up 1:56:12.120 --> 1:56:14.680 into the tree. That's the one I'm talking about. Look around, 1:56:14.720 --> 1:56:17.000 that's the one I'm talking and then like hops from 1:56:17.040 --> 1:56:20.560 tree to tree. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we talked about that. Yeah, 1:56:20.600 --> 1:56:24.520 I must have told you about after I've seen him, 1:56:24.640 --> 1:56:26.680 because I can imagine there's got to be some old 1:56:26.800 --> 1:56:30.840 ass gators that are just ghosts. Like he's not gonna 1:56:30.880 --> 1:56:34.240 get me. That's what that that guy in Oakachobi. I said, 1:56:34.280 --> 1:56:36.680 other gators out here that can live their whole life 1:56:36.680 --> 1:56:39.320 and not get killed. And he said they get smart, man, Yeah, 1:56:39.360 --> 1:56:41.560 he goes, they get like hunting a weary white tail. 1:56:41.600 --> 1:56:43.720 You get to be fifty years old. And he said 1:56:43.760 --> 1:56:46.240 they know like they don't they don't make big mistakes. 1:56:46.280 --> 1:56:49.520 They like they they they'll like hold up and thick shit. 1:56:49.840 --> 1:56:52.640 You don't just catch them out dicking around like they 1:56:52.680 --> 1:56:59.960 get cautious. Because he's looking for they're looking for gators 1:57:00.160 --> 1:57:02.839 in like certain situations. Are they cracking them with rifles 1:57:02.920 --> 1:57:05.760 or how they get no know He takes Cornish game 1:57:05.800 --> 1:57:11.400 hens fills them with fill a foam so they crack sealer. 1:57:12.400 --> 1:57:15.600 You can't use a hook, so they use a wooden 1:57:15.600 --> 1:57:18.520 dowell sharpened on each end and you bury that in 1:57:18.560 --> 1:57:20.640 the Cornish game hen. And what they do is they 1:57:20.680 --> 1:57:23.760 find the gate or they want watch it. And he 1:57:23.800 --> 1:57:25.919 gets to spot where he feels like he can approach 1:57:25.960 --> 1:57:28.240 it and it's in its instinct isn't going to be 1:57:28.280 --> 1:57:30.080 to run away, but he can approach it where it's 1:57:30.080 --> 1:57:32.000 instinct's gonna be good. Go down, lay on the bottom. 1:57:32.920 --> 1:57:36.920 So they'll watch with buyos. They hunt the daytime and 1:57:37.000 --> 1:57:39.320 he'll get to be like, okay, we can approach it 1:57:39.400 --> 1:57:41.960 now and its response will be to hide and not book. 1:57:43.680 --> 1:57:45.480 They go to it and they know right where it is, 1:57:45.560 --> 1:57:48.000 and he says he sets that bait right where he 1:57:48.080 --> 1:57:51.680 knows that when he comes up he's gonna find the bait, 1:57:52.400 --> 1:57:55.000 opens the bail on his fishing rod and goes and 1:57:55.120 --> 1:58:01.640 gets a couple hundred yards away and waits. He says, 1:58:01.640 --> 1:58:04.400 eventually it's gonna come up if you did your job right, 1:58:04.720 --> 1:58:06.320 and he goes you gotta put an up current or 1:58:06.440 --> 1:58:09.640 up wind. When he comes up, he's gonna be like, oh, 1:58:09.680 --> 1:58:12.920 shoot a corners game, hen and go eat it. And 1:58:12.960 --> 1:58:15.160 he said, you'll watch and you'll know when he ate it. 1:58:15.360 --> 1:58:20.560 Good is his tail and his head come up because 1:58:20.560 --> 1:58:22.520 he's trying to choke it down. He goes because says, 1:58:22.560 --> 1:58:25.440 sometimes they'll carry it. Yeah, and if you pull, he's 1:58:25.440 --> 1:58:27.960 just gonna drop it. But you why wait until and 1:58:28.000 --> 1:58:29.800 if you get if you're too close him, he's never 1:58:29.840 --> 1:58:32.000 gonna eat it, he said. If he if he knows 1:58:32.000 --> 1:58:34.160 you're there, he's gonna grab it and leave. If he 1:58:34.240 --> 1:58:37.480 thinks he's cool, you wash and you'll know that he's 1:58:37.480 --> 1:58:39.480 swallowed it, at which point he closes the bail and 1:58:39.520 --> 1:58:42.000 tightens up on it and first takes up all the 1:58:42.200 --> 1:58:44.880 braid and gets it to like a cable leader, and 1:58:44.920 --> 1:58:47.040 then they just start fucking rastling it on the end 1:58:47.080 --> 1:58:50.960 of that cable leader. Eventually they use a um. Eventually 1:58:51.040 --> 1:58:54.400 he's a bankster. Yeah. Yeah, they'll get another hook into it. 1:58:54.720 --> 1:58:59.880 Yeah you can't. You can use a hook, but you 1:59:00.040 --> 1:59:03.040 can't bait it. So then they'll get a snag like 1:59:03.040 --> 1:59:04.960 a big treble. Then they'll get a snag and hooking 1:59:05.240 --> 1:59:06.840 it and then they and then they get it up. Said, 1:59:06.840 --> 1:59:09.360 everybody's got a job. Everybody on the boat like does this. 1:59:09.640 --> 1:59:13.640 Yeah that you do this and eventually a banks ticket. Okay, 1:59:13.720 --> 1:59:18.000 so you go, you you you, you approach your gator. Yeah, 1:59:18.080 --> 1:59:23.240 with a snare, with a snare. But aren't there a 1:59:23.240 --> 1:59:24.560 lot of them just aren't going to never let you 1:59:24.640 --> 1:59:30.840 approach it? Yeah? Yeah, I mean back to your point, 1:59:31.320 --> 1:59:34.480 I mean, there was there are some folks in Costa 1:59:34.560 --> 1:59:37.320 Rica who talk about seven meters sized animals in the 1:59:37.360 --> 1:59:42.839 Tempisk River and um, I mean those are gigantic animals 1:59:43.200 --> 1:59:46.040 and the reason they get that big is because nobody 1:59:46.080 --> 1:59:49.600 can ever get a hold of them, right, So I 1:59:50.240 --> 1:59:53.560 there are animals out there that are sort of iconically 1:59:53.680 --> 1:59:57.640 large that you see, you know, once a decade, But that, 1:59:57.720 --> 2:00:02.800 I mean, that's obviously really hard live, uncatchable, undetected. Yeah. 2:00:02.840 --> 2:00:05.920 Me and my buddy were standing on the bank of 2:00:05.960 --> 2:00:08.880 a boat dock in Costa Rica once and we saw 2:00:08.920 --> 2:00:11.920 a head off in the distance in the river that 2:00:12.000 --> 2:00:15.560 looked to be like five feet long. Just the head, 2:00:15.600 --> 2:00:18.640 the head, just the head. I mean, obviously me I 2:00:18.680 --> 2:00:23.120 want I want that to be this massive thing but man, 2:00:23.640 --> 2:00:26.240 never seen a head that big. I never saw it again. 2:00:26.640 --> 2:00:31.480 You didn't go rastle it, couldn't rastle it percent of 2:00:31.480 --> 2:00:34.240 the time for the head thing. I don't know if 2:00:34.240 --> 2:00:37.440 this applies to crocodise, but isn't it for alligators? You 2:00:37.480 --> 2:00:41.560 can estimate their length by the width of they're like 2:00:41.600 --> 2:00:47.200 they're length of their head or something like that. Yeah, 2:00:47.240 --> 2:00:50.560 there's that. There's a sort of crude anecdotal metric of 2:00:50.600 --> 2:00:53.560 the distance from the naars to the eyes in inches 2:00:53.920 --> 2:00:58.080 is roughly how long the animal is in feet. But 2:00:58.160 --> 2:01:03.560 I mean I think that's relatively reliable. Yeah, So you 2:01:03.600 --> 2:01:06.200 approach them in the boat. Approach them in the boat. 2:01:05.880 --> 2:01:11.080 You're come in behind them any which way they'll let 2:01:11.080 --> 2:01:15.480 me approach. I mean most of the time they'll just 2:01:15.880 --> 2:01:21.560 run or go under, swim away, and they'll reappear, you know, 2:01:21.960 --> 2:01:24.920 thirty yards to your left. Oka you do the whole 2:01:25.080 --> 2:01:29.400 whole thing again, start the boat up, move over to them. 2:01:29.480 --> 2:01:33.760 If you can get within twelve feet or so, is 2:01:33.760 --> 2:01:37.960 is the cane pole length, then great, he's something. Oftentimes 2:01:37.960 --> 2:01:40.760 I try to put the snare on and miss and 2:01:40.880 --> 2:01:42.960 do it again. But what if he just goes into 2:01:43.000 --> 2:01:45.080 some real thick shit, you can't go in. Or after all, 2:01:45.120 --> 2:01:47.600 if they go on land, then they're mine. They go 2:01:47.680 --> 2:01:50.440 up in the vegetation, I can work my way up 2:01:50.480 --> 2:01:52.600 in there and put the snare on them. But it's 2:01:52.600 --> 2:01:55.920 when they go down then I have no idea. When 2:01:55.960 --> 2:01:58.440 they're coming up, I mean, I'll I'll chase an out. Well, 2:01:58.480 --> 2:02:01.800 I've learned now to just not like in open waters 2:02:01.800 --> 2:02:04.800 in Mobile Bay where we're doing research, I could. You 2:02:04.800 --> 2:02:07.040 could be after the same alligator for eight hours and 2:02:07.120 --> 2:02:10.920 never catch it. So after like three tries, I move 2:02:10.960 --> 2:02:14.000 on to green your pastures, like you're not gonna get them? Yeah, 2:02:14.000 --> 2:02:15.880 I give up on them. And when you put the snare, 2:02:15.920 --> 2:02:17.760 run it where you trying to put it around his neck? 2:02:19.720 --> 2:02:22.160 Do you place it with that pole? Place it with 2:02:22.200 --> 2:02:26.080 a pole? And then them you ain't get shut bring 2:02:26.120 --> 2:02:28.840 them in or if they're too big to be in 2:02:28.880 --> 2:02:33.880 the boat, move the boat onto shore and move the 2:02:33.920 --> 2:02:36.440 animal up on the shore. And what's his attitude about 2:02:36.440 --> 2:02:39.280 this whole thing? He's pissed. They're not happy. I wouldn't 2:02:39.320 --> 2:02:41.520 be happy. And you get them up on shore and 2:02:41.520 --> 2:02:43.120 then how do you how do you eventually get control 2:02:43.160 --> 2:02:46.320 of them? Cover their eyes? Usually with something if they're 2:02:46.360 --> 2:02:49.040 really angry, and then one person holds the rope, the 2:02:49.040 --> 2:02:55.040 other person hops on, shuts their mouth. Use gator tape 2:02:55.200 --> 2:03:02.640 aka electrical tape. Tape their mouth shut. Not even electrical tapes. Fine, 2:03:03.040 --> 2:03:06.280 a couple of raps, mouth shut. Tavi's mouth shut. Get 2:03:06.280 --> 2:03:09.040 the snare off as soon as you can process the animal. 2:03:09.960 --> 2:03:14.640 So as powerful as that jaw is, yeah, but when 2:03:14.640 --> 2:03:16.520 it's closed, to get it open, a little bit of 2:03:16.520 --> 2:03:20.840 resistance is going to keep them from doing that. Yeah. Yeah. 2:03:20.880 --> 2:03:23.680 There are big animals in cost Rica that we've called 2:03:23.720 --> 2:03:27.000 I think the biggest crocodilian we've ever caught was a 2:03:27.040 --> 2:03:33.520 little over sixteen feet. Those are difficult animals to move. 2:03:34.200 --> 2:03:36.760 Takes a whole team of six or eight of us 2:03:36.800 --> 2:03:43.280 to move them, well, sometimes less. But the hard part 2:03:43.360 --> 2:03:47.520 is getting the mouth shut enough to actually put electrical 2:03:47.560 --> 2:03:50.760 tape on it. Because the top of the jaw to 2:03:50.800 --> 2:03:52.720 the bottom of the jaw of animal that size is 2:03:52.760 --> 2:03:56.120 like a foot tall. So I am using all my 2:03:56.240 --> 2:03:59.120 strength in my arms just to get the mouth shut. 2:03:59.680 --> 2:04:02.920 You know, somebody runs over and tapes the mouth real quick. 2:04:02.960 --> 2:04:04.960 Have you ever gotten nipped or got your hand in 2:04:05.000 --> 2:04:07.600 there on accident or has seen that happen. Man, go 2:04:07.640 --> 2:04:12.680 ahead and knock on wood right now. No battle scars whatsoever. 2:04:12.960 --> 2:04:19.960 I have never been seriously injured by a crocodilian. Goodness again, 2:04:20.000 --> 2:04:21.640 have you ever seen anyone get nipped or got their 2:04:21.640 --> 2:04:26.000 hands stuck in there? Yeah? Yeah, that's just like a 2:04:26.040 --> 2:04:29.320 good way to get an infection. Yeah sure, I imagine 2:04:29.320 --> 2:04:32.520 you got to watch out for that tail too. Huh. 2:04:32.520 --> 2:04:35.320 People say that, really, but it's not a yeah, I mean, 2:04:35.360 --> 2:04:36.800 it hurts if it hits you. I mean on a 2:04:36.800 --> 2:04:38.680 really big animal, you can knock you off your feet, 2:04:38.720 --> 2:04:41.000 but it's not gonna snap your leg and a half. No. 2:04:41.520 --> 2:04:44.040 People say that, but that's just hype. So ask you. 2:04:44.040 --> 2:04:46.320 He can't hurt you with any other body part other 2:04:46.360 --> 2:04:48.160 than that jaw, really, like you can't. I mean, the 2:04:48.200 --> 2:04:52.680 whole process is painful for me, especially like in Costa Rica. 2:04:52.760 --> 2:04:56.440 So usually I jump first on the head and then 2:04:56.440 --> 2:05:00.440 there's two hundred and fifty pound former football player jumps 2:05:00.480 --> 2:05:03.280 on behind me and mashes me down onto the animal. 2:05:04.160 --> 2:05:07.400 That hurts more than anything, as that hurts a lot, 2:05:08.000 --> 2:05:09.720 but at my age, I try to do that as 2:05:10.080 --> 2:05:13.120 little as possible. Now and it's his instinct when you're 2:05:13.120 --> 2:05:18.600 messing with them. It's instinct is to bite you. Well, 2:05:18.680 --> 2:05:21.320 it's instinct just to get out of the situation that 2:05:21.720 --> 2:05:25.120 I rudely put it in. Yeah, you know, in this 2:05:25.840 --> 2:05:28.880 whole scenario. But I mean he'll he'll deliterally snap at 2:05:28.880 --> 2:05:31.680 you or no, yeah, okay if you can Yeah, got it. 2:05:31.840 --> 2:05:34.600 So that's on its mind to defend itself by snap 2:05:34.600 --> 2:05:37.960 and not just to get away. Yeah, and any means 2:05:38.000 --> 2:05:39.400 necessary to get off of it. I mean, when you 2:05:39.400 --> 2:05:42.000 have a rope around your neck, you can't get away. 2:05:42.400 --> 2:05:44.960 Your last resort is to just not get killed, and 2:05:44.960 --> 2:05:48.520 that's what probably it thinks it's going to happen. Yeah. 2:05:49.120 --> 2:05:52.200 Can we get into their immune system a bit, because 2:05:52.200 --> 2:05:56.360 you're telling me how interesting, how robust the immune system is. 2:05:56.400 --> 2:05:58.640 I know we don't have too much time yet left, 2:05:58.720 --> 2:06:03.160 but immune this is some really interesting work done. Adam McNeice, 2:06:03.640 --> 2:06:07.680 colleague of mine. Um. Can I say his name? Oh yeah, 2:06:07.760 --> 2:06:13.840 Mark Merchant. He's a phenomenal biochemist who studies alligators and 2:06:14.480 --> 2:06:17.440 his work has shown that. So he essentially wanted to 2:06:17.480 --> 2:06:23.520 say how strong is alligator blood at killing stuff? And 2:06:23.640 --> 2:06:29.000 he threw like every kind of fungal pathogen at it 2:06:29.680 --> 2:06:34.120 a ton of viruses, any bacteria, like twenty three bacteria 2:06:34.320 --> 2:06:38.040 and it killed them all. Their innate immune system is 2:06:38.080 --> 2:06:45.320 just so robust at killing pathogens. It's blood. You're saying 2:06:45.320 --> 2:06:50.720 that it put bacteria and viruses in alligator blood. Yeah. 2:06:50.720 --> 2:06:54.520 They take blood from the alligator and have like super 2:06:54.560 --> 2:06:57.720 controlled assays in which they do this stuff. You put 2:06:57.760 --> 2:07:00.400 blood in a little plate toobe in the plate, and 2:07:00.440 --> 2:07:03.360 then put other stuff, bad stuff in there, and you 2:07:03.400 --> 2:07:05.800 can measure how much of the bad stuff was killed. 2:07:06.040 --> 2:07:09.440 They also do this like zone of inhibition style metric 2:07:09.480 --> 2:07:13.560 where they they grow a bacteria on a plate and 2:07:13.600 --> 2:07:18.200 then they put a drop of alligator blood plasma in 2:07:18.240 --> 2:07:21.480 the center and then measure the diameter of bacteria that 2:07:21.960 --> 2:07:24.839 is no longer on that plate because it was killed. Wow. 2:07:25.480 --> 2:07:29.560 And they are so so fast good and killing stuff, 2:07:29.560 --> 2:07:33.960 and people are probably interested in this whole exactly. Yeah. 2:07:34.000 --> 2:07:36.320 You know, I'll say this now because it's a good segue. 2:07:36.360 --> 2:07:41.320 Alligators are great model organisms for human health from an 2:07:41.320 --> 2:07:46.360 immune perspective, from an eco toxicological perspective, from an endocrine perspective. 2:07:46.480 --> 2:07:49.720 I mean they they should be more highly regarded in 2:07:49.840 --> 2:07:55.640 that capacity, and they're starting to be what um, But 2:07:55.640 --> 2:08:01.960 but they're they're not sensitive to ecotoxics. Oh they are. 2:08:02.120 --> 2:08:04.840 They are because I know, like like frogs are horrifically sensitive, right, 2:08:04.840 --> 2:08:07.600 I mean yeah, I would say, So there's this There 2:08:07.640 --> 2:08:12.080 are these things called endocrine disrupting contaminants or endocrine disrupting compounds. 2:08:12.880 --> 2:08:17.960 And one of the biggest case studies used alligators in 2:08:18.040 --> 2:08:23.280 Florida out of the Lugillette lab and continued Lugillette lab lineage. 2:08:23.840 --> 2:08:29.760 They looked at how how synthetically produced contaminants in a 2:08:29.880 --> 2:08:37.520 lake actually bias the sexual differentiation of hatchling alligators and 2:08:37.680 --> 2:08:43.400 subsequent age classes. So like, if you expose an alligator 2:08:43.560 --> 2:08:50.040 to a compound that mimics estrogen or antagonizes estrogen or 2:08:50.080 --> 2:08:54.160 antagonizes androgens, like all like birth control stuff in the 2:08:54.200 --> 2:08:59.320 water supply and everything. Yeah, but those receptors are pretty good. Well, 2:08:59.440 --> 2:09:02.320 the things we make are really good at binding to 2:09:02.360 --> 2:09:09.000 those receptors or antagonizing them. And the first real case 2:09:09.040 --> 2:09:15.520 study on environmental estrogens was done in Lake Apopka in 2:09:15.560 --> 2:09:20.040 central Florida. And I mean you talk about paragrine falcons 2:09:20.360 --> 2:09:24.600 and cormorants and all that type of stuff, I would 2:09:24.600 --> 2:09:29.160 say you know, the biggest case study that sort of 2:09:29.200 --> 2:09:32.480 taught the world about the power of endocrine disrupting cataminants 2:09:32.640 --> 2:09:36.360 was on alligators. Really, and that study system is still 2:09:36.440 --> 2:09:42.200 producing tons of really interesting information. Tons like that stuff 2:09:42.240 --> 2:09:46.360 is damaging. Oh yeah, So in that scenario, most of 2:09:46.400 --> 2:09:52.840 the toxins, if memory serves, were environmentally estrogenic, probably anti androgenic. 2:09:53.360 --> 2:10:00.440 So when when you're exposing mom to these compounds through people, 2:10:01.360 --> 2:10:07.560 mostly like organic chlorine pesticide use usually I'm sorry, I 2:10:07.600 --> 2:10:12.680 thought you were saying that that. You know, there's you 2:10:12.760 --> 2:10:18.000 hear about hormones and drinking water from various from various 2:10:18.240 --> 2:10:21.280 human treatments, hormones. Get I thought you meant that that's 2:10:21.320 --> 2:10:24.080 what's happened. No, no no, no, yeah, so those are the 2:10:24.160 --> 2:10:30.720 same thing, because these biotoxins are these biotoxins are influencing 2:10:30.720 --> 2:10:33.520 the hormones in gators. Not that we're putting hormones in 2:10:33.520 --> 2:10:37.640 the water that's affecting gators, right, They're they're mimicking endogenous hormones, 2:10:37.680 --> 2:10:40.320 hormones that naturally exist within the body or at least 2:10:40.440 --> 2:10:44.120 binding to their receptors. And that because these things are 2:10:44.480 --> 2:10:48.680 have temperature dependent sex determination, all that really means is 2:10:48.720 --> 2:10:56.280 the temperature creates up a genetic cascade that turns on 2:10:56.280 --> 2:11:00.240 one enzyme or turns on a different enzyme, and that's 2:11:00.320 --> 2:11:05.400 where those enzymes take a maternally supplied hormone pool and 2:11:05.440 --> 2:11:08.880 say this is all going to become estrogen or this 2:11:08.960 --> 2:11:12.800 is all going to become androgen like like testosterone. And 2:11:12.920 --> 2:11:16.960 when you bias that maternally supplied steroid pool was something 2:11:17.000 --> 2:11:21.680 that looks like estrogen or looks like an androgen, all 2:11:21.680 --> 2:11:25.520 of a sudden, the signals become a little washy, and 2:11:25.600 --> 2:11:31.160 you're able to produce in that case, feminized male alligators 2:11:31.360 --> 2:11:36.280 or super female alligators, in which you see things like 2:11:36.280 --> 2:11:40.600 like polynuclear oocytes more than one nuclei per egg, or 2:11:40.880 --> 2:11:45.880 polyovular follicles more than one egg per follicle in females, 2:11:45.920 --> 2:11:50.880 which is an abnormality, and then you see feminized male 2:11:51.160 --> 2:11:58.200 individuals that maybe have If you take the gonad out 2:11:58.640 --> 2:12:02.160 and histologically examine it, slics it really really thin and 2:12:02.200 --> 2:12:06.360 look at under a microscope, you'll see seminiferous tubules, which 2:12:06.400 --> 2:12:10.280 are the portions of the gonad that makes berm and 2:12:10.320 --> 2:12:13.120 then right next to those you may see one egg 2:12:14.120 --> 2:12:16.440 and You're like, what the heck is going on here? 2:12:16.960 --> 2:12:24.640 Must be an intercondisrupting contaminant. Better apply for a grant. Man, 2:12:26.520 --> 2:12:28.120 It's what degree is that going on? I mean, I 2:12:28.120 --> 2:12:30.280 guess that's the question. Ultimately, people are gonna want to 2:12:30.280 --> 2:12:33.520 know us to what degree is that going on with humans? Yeah? 2:12:33.560 --> 2:12:39.720 I mean I teach an eco toxicology class at the 2:12:39.720 --> 2:12:42.960 master's level of Southeastern and a lot of the literature 2:12:43.000 --> 2:12:49.080 that we read tends to focus on how potentially volatile 2:12:49.440 --> 2:12:54.720 these things are. So in the air, So polar bears 2:12:55.080 --> 2:13:00.800 in the North Pole have super high amounts of PCBs, 2:13:01.400 --> 2:13:04.240 a synthetic thing that they would never have otherwise been 2:13:04.280 --> 2:13:08.960 exposed to aside from than being in the air. So 2:13:09.080 --> 2:13:11.480 I mean, if we're talking about humans, yeah, we're exposed 2:13:11.480 --> 2:13:15.520 to a lot of stuff all the time. Um, red 2:13:15.600 --> 2:13:20.080 meat in farm mistake has dioxins in it to a 2:13:20.160 --> 2:13:22.600 higher degree than almost anything else that you eat. I'm 2:13:22.640 --> 2:13:25.200 really throwing throwing stuff under the bus here. But I 2:13:25.240 --> 2:13:28.240 mean maybe we should drink alligator blood and be perfect. Yeah, 2:13:28.320 --> 2:13:33.920 well that doesn't yeah, but I mean, yeah, I think 2:13:33.960 --> 2:13:37.120 that the use of alligators to teach us about how 2:13:37.160 --> 2:13:40.040 these ecotoxins may or may not be affecting humans is 2:13:40.400 --> 2:13:44.240 a super viable pathway for research and is and continues 2:13:44.280 --> 2:13:48.960 to be. Man, you got me thinking about that gator blood. 2:13:50.240 --> 2:13:53.160 What's the uh what was it that? Remember one early 2:13:53.200 --> 2:13:59.920 in the pandemic um python oil? No, what President trol 2:14:00.200 --> 2:14:03.160 mused about has anyone looked into that you would drink 2:14:04.960 --> 2:14:11.560 well each No, no, it caused a big shit storm 2:14:11.560 --> 2:14:16.680 in the news that I can't know. It wasn't no, no, no, 2:14:16.840 --> 2:14:19.080 what No. There was like a there was a press 2:14:19.120 --> 2:14:21.680 conference and someone mentioned that there was some impact of 2:14:21.800 --> 2:14:24.080 something and there was like a wondering if if, like 2:14:24.200 --> 2:14:27.600 somehow there was a way to sort of metabolize the substance. 2:14:27.840 --> 2:14:31.440 Either way, it's got me wondering about you know, you 2:14:31.440 --> 2:14:34.680 could see a sci fi movie right where people were 2:14:34.680 --> 2:14:37.640 wanting to consume gait or blood. Well, there's a lot 2:14:37.680 --> 2:14:41.080 of I mean there has there harveston hide and meat. 2:14:41.160 --> 2:14:43.839 They could start like a whole supplement thing with the blood. 2:14:44.360 --> 2:14:48.760 You know. One of the worst movies ever made, um 2:14:49.360 --> 2:14:53.120 one of my favorite actors worst movies was called The Hunter. 2:14:53.840 --> 2:14:57.400 Not yeah, not dar Suzala one of the greatest movies 2:14:57.400 --> 2:15:01.480 ever made. Last Uh, He's hunting for the biomedical. The 2:15:01.600 --> 2:15:08.360 biomedical evil people wanted their hands on the last thera. 2:15:08.800 --> 2:15:14.360 What's the what's a Tasmanian tiger? Is a therascene? They 2:15:14.400 --> 2:15:17.040 got some name. It's a Lazarus species where people are 2:15:17.080 --> 2:15:19.560 eyes like that it saw one, but maybe it didn't 2:15:19.560 --> 2:15:23.000 actually go extinct. The evil Like, if there's a movie 2:15:23.040 --> 2:15:25.760 and there's biomedical people in it, those people will be bad. 2:15:26.400 --> 2:15:29.400 Oh for sure, I can promise you. Generally the hunters 2:15:29.400 --> 2:15:33.200 are bad too. And the oil, big oil Disney movies. 2:15:33.640 --> 2:15:35.600 When they got to set up a conflict, it's the 2:15:35.640 --> 2:15:39.400 oil people. But BioMed, you're gonna be bad. Never be 2:15:39.480 --> 2:15:41.640 cast in a movie if you're a BioMed person. They 2:15:41.680 --> 2:15:49.080 want the lasts. It's not a Tasmanian devil. It's something 2:15:49.240 --> 2:15:53.760 bigger than Tasmanian tiger. Yeah, there's a tiger or Tasmanian wolf. 2:15:53.960 --> 2:15:58.760 Maybe William Dafoe. They catch word that there's one left 2:15:59.760 --> 2:16:04.880 in Willem dafolds like a hunter slash mercenary. And he's 2:16:05.040 --> 2:16:07.280 and he gets and he takes off with some He 2:16:07.400 --> 2:16:11.000 has a magical backpack. He heads into the Tasmanian outback 2:16:11.080 --> 2:16:14.080 with a little backpack, but keeps producing amazing things from 2:16:14.120 --> 2:16:19.320 this little backpack. There's like an also like side love 2:16:19.520 --> 2:16:23.840 story going of course. Yeah, um, it's a good movie. 2:16:23.880 --> 2:16:25.720 He's got a little pack, but also he's got like 2:16:25.760 --> 2:16:29.400 a shitload of giant traps and gun he needs to 2:16:29.480 --> 2:16:32.680 go kill this stra scene for the Evil BioMed people, 2:16:33.720 --> 2:16:35.880 This evil Tasmanian tiger, which is a mark. It's the 2:16:35.959 --> 2:16:39.480 cool animals. A marsupial like a like a marsupial predator 2:16:40.360 --> 2:16:42.920 and uh, in the end, he gets kind of burned 2:16:42.920 --> 2:16:46.240 out on the Evil Biomedical people, shoots it anyway, which 2:16:46.360 --> 2:16:49.520 really surprised me. Shoots it anyway and then burns it up. 2:16:49.800 --> 2:16:52.680 He's like in the end, it's kind of like, well, 2:16:52.800 --> 2:16:56.560 by god, no one's gonna have it, right, It's a 2:16:56.600 --> 2:16:59.199 weird way to handle it, but yeah, shoots the last 2:16:59.240 --> 2:17:02.400 one and burns it up, being like they're not gonna 2:17:02.480 --> 2:17:05.320 have it. No one's gonna have it. Damn it. What 2:17:05.480 --> 2:17:11.200 was that time on this first Yet that thing's blood 2:17:11.320 --> 2:17:14.720 to cure sicknesses, to make sicknesses. They're gonna do something 2:17:14.760 --> 2:17:18.760 with it. So now you know a picturing like does 2:17:18.800 --> 2:17:21.680 the alligator blood having some kind of that's I mean 2:17:22.480 --> 2:17:25.840 that ultimately has to be the The idea that like 2:17:26.200 --> 2:17:29.000 that would be where the big time funding comes from 2:17:29.720 --> 2:17:34.600 is that if they have this ability to fight off 2:17:34.600 --> 2:17:40.160 all these infections, then um, that would be a biomedical interest. 2:17:40.560 --> 2:17:46.640 And I imagine if they have this demonstrable if if 2:17:48.040 --> 2:17:52.640 synthetic substances in the environment in the form of pollution, 2:17:53.160 --> 2:17:58.400 have this demonstrable effect on their hormone development and reproduction, 2:17:58.920 --> 2:18:04.320 that probably becomes of great interest to medical researchers. Absolutely, yeah, 2:18:04.800 --> 2:18:08.960 I would. I would as a disclaimer, say, do not 2:18:09.160 --> 2:18:13.480 go try to get alligator blood for any purpose ever. 2:18:14.160 --> 2:18:17.959 Thank you. What's the but? But yeah, I think you're 2:18:18.000 --> 2:18:19.720 absolutely right, and I think there's a lot of work 2:18:19.800 --> 2:18:23.480 that are that's beginning to use alligators as model organisms 2:18:23.520 --> 2:18:26.160 for human health. What's that's a great thing. What's the 2:18:26.280 --> 2:18:29.080 state of the gator in the US? How are they 2:18:29.640 --> 2:18:33.120 They're doing great? I'll handle that one. Yeah, okay, sit, ye. 2:18:34.440 --> 2:18:37.680 So there's no places where there's like, man, things aren't 2:18:37.720 --> 2:18:40.840 going well here, they're like generally doing very well. Yeah. 2:18:40.840 --> 2:18:44.560 I mean throughout the range. Since they're since there need 2:18:44.680 --> 2:18:48.720 to be a sustainable resource, they're quite readily managed. In 2:18:48.760 --> 2:18:53.800 the states that they're abundant you know, Louisiana, Florida, Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, 2:18:53.959 --> 2:18:56.920 South Carolina has a great program. There are people that 2:18:57.320 --> 2:19:01.240 manage these things just like any other harvestable resource. And 2:19:01.280 --> 2:19:03.640 when you see a gator hunter, you're not like you 2:19:03.879 --> 2:19:07.480 hell billy rednecks. You're like, uh, no, I was going guys, 2:19:07.640 --> 2:19:09.720 you've been seeing any Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm not. 2:19:09.879 --> 2:19:13.760 It's it's the it's the regulations and the promotion of 2:19:13.879 --> 2:19:17.560 them being used as a sustainable resource that ultimately brought 2:19:17.640 --> 2:19:21.600 them back from extinction. So if it's managed well and 2:19:21.720 --> 2:19:25.440 effectively and seems to be very well throughout the southeast US, 2:19:25.520 --> 2:19:30.040 then then that's fine. Have fun. I stay within the loss. 2:19:30.080 --> 2:19:32.520 You don't wear gator skin boots, I don't. You don't 2:19:32.560 --> 2:19:37.160 have big gator teeth necklaces. I don't. I'm a biologist, guys. 2:19:37.360 --> 2:19:39.959 You guys can't do that. You can't. But you can't 2:19:40.000 --> 2:19:43.320 become like a guy with a gator hat and gator boots. 2:19:43.400 --> 2:19:45.960 And could you got a gator skull on your desk 2:19:46.040 --> 2:19:48.959 at work? No, they're in the lab all for teaching. 2:19:49.400 --> 2:19:52.320 I want one of the skulls bad. How many gators 2:19:52.360 --> 2:19:54.400 have handled Oh, can you set us up a big, 2:19:54.480 --> 2:20:01.520 huge gator skull, I mean a big one. Are the 2:20:01.959 --> 2:20:05.920 transport of alligator materials across state lines? Animal sites? Animal 2:20:06.000 --> 2:20:08.200 Yeah for sure, Oh they are so so. But they 2:20:08.280 --> 2:20:10.600 just need to be because we're hunting. Some of us 2:20:11.320 --> 2:20:15.720 meteor folks are hunting in September. So but you are 2:20:15.800 --> 2:20:19.640 allowed to grins going to transport them, but you need 2:20:19.720 --> 2:20:26.640 to make But won't you just ask the question? Somebody 2:20:26.680 --> 2:20:29.240 just asked a question. Send me a big, old, huge games. 2:20:32.280 --> 2:20:34.920 This is my last question. How many gators? How many 2:20:34.959 --> 2:20:41.760 gators have you touched? Wild gators, wild alligators, crocodilians or whatever? 2:20:41.840 --> 2:20:45.199 You know? Oh? In total? Well, we've caught fifteen hundred 2:20:45.280 --> 2:20:49.959 American crocodiles in Guanta Coste that are marked, so probably 2:20:50.000 --> 2:20:52.280 add five hundred or so onto that that aren't marked. 2:20:52.600 --> 2:20:57.640 And for alligators, I would say maybe three or four thousand. Damn, 2:20:58.600 --> 2:21:01.080 I don't know a lot. It is my job. Are 2:21:01.160 --> 2:21:05.320 those are those crocs in Costa Rica protected? Are they 2:21:05.360 --> 2:21:09.240 a species that are used? No, they're not. They're not harvesting, 2:21:09.480 --> 2:21:11.640 and that's sort of a different great story in the 2:21:11.720 --> 2:21:15.480 sense that they're they're used profitably for eco tourism, so 2:21:15.680 --> 2:21:20.120 the management of those populations is also a renewable resource, 2:21:20.200 --> 2:21:23.720 but in a different, different sort of vein. Mm hmm. 2:21:26.120 --> 2:21:29.360 I don't got any more questions. Okay, is there anything 2:21:29.400 --> 2:21:32.240 we missed that You're like, No, this was really fun. 2:21:32.400 --> 2:21:34.920 These guys really need to know about this about crows. 2:21:34.920 --> 2:21:37.080 I want to return to my first question. Okay, Oh 2:21:37.200 --> 2:21:42.920 heart chamber. Oh what was that? Like? Why they can stand? Well? Yeah, 2:21:43.120 --> 2:21:46.039 and that it was right in the same paragraph as 2:21:46.280 --> 2:21:48.280 talking about how long they can hold their breath, which 2:21:48.320 --> 2:21:51.840 I think is dying to know that. How long can 2:21:51.879 --> 2:21:53.440 they hold their breath? He's gonna give us some wishy 2:21:53.520 --> 2:21:56.800 washy science. Seven hours? Oh no, he did. I think 2:21:56.840 --> 2:22:02.520 that's an imperial Well it's all true, that's all true, 2:22:02.560 --> 2:22:04.320 but no one wants to hear that. They want to 2:22:04.320 --> 2:22:07.440 hear a number seven hours I think has been recorded 2:22:07.520 --> 2:22:13.040 in But they do that by by circulating blood through 2:22:13.280 --> 2:22:18.080 the systemic circuit and bypassing the lungs. They don't actually 2:22:18.080 --> 2:22:20.280 have a fifth chamber, but they have a forumin of 2:22:20.400 --> 2:22:24.160 beniza it's called which bypasses the lungs so they can 2:22:24.240 --> 2:22:28.360 recirculate blood throughout the body, maximizing the exchange of oxygen 2:22:28.440 --> 2:22:32.480 to cells. Yeah, seven hours. I think that's a number 2:22:32.560 --> 2:22:35.200 that has been recorded. But if I were to give 2:22:35.200 --> 2:22:44.680 you a real answer, a layer seven hour, something something 2:22:44.720 --> 2:22:49.040 cool down there. Somebody needs to like try to create 2:22:49.120 --> 2:22:52.600 like an external pack of that that, like you you know, 2:22:52.720 --> 2:22:56.880 instead of an oxygen, instead of that, instead of that, 2:22:57.320 --> 2:23:02.240 this would be cool. It doesn't bubble um. So so 2:23:02.360 --> 2:23:04.960 they got that seven hours under water. Oh here's my 2:23:05.040 --> 2:23:07.680 last question. I'm going back to my first question. You 2:23:07.720 --> 2:23:09.360 know those a little stock tanks I was talking about, 2:23:09.360 --> 2:23:11.240 to have him living in it. Yeah, let's say the 2:23:11.640 --> 2:23:17.280 rainy season never came. Okay, the water never came. He 2:23:17.360 --> 2:23:19.160 could feasibly live in that little hole the size of 2:23:19.240 --> 2:23:22.840 his studio. How long long time? Years? Okay, years, I think. 2:23:23.000 --> 2:23:25.200 So he's not like, holy cow, it's getting close if 2:23:25.280 --> 2:23:27.600 the if the water doesn't rise, I'm doomed. Like he 2:23:27.640 --> 2:23:31.720 could he could survive a dry season. I think that 2:23:31.800 --> 2:23:34.280 if a prey item, and in that scenario it's likely 2:23:34.360 --> 2:23:39.640 to happen, waterfowl or some animal that needs water approaches 2:23:39.760 --> 2:23:44.080 that watering hole and they're successfully eating every six months, 2:23:44.280 --> 2:23:46.880 something kind of big that they can probably live for 2:23:47.040 --> 2:23:50.080 years and really they metabolically, they're just so efficient. Well, 2:23:50.160 --> 2:23:52.640 let's say that thing that, let's say it's a little 2:23:52.680 --> 2:23:55.800 hole dries up. Then I think that Steve's question is 2:23:55.840 --> 2:23:59.640 that but he only needs the water because it attracts prey, 2:24:00.200 --> 2:24:04.200 or does the does the gator need water to survive? Yeah, 2:24:04.240 --> 2:24:07.760 I mean it's interesting. We like to think that all 2:24:07.800 --> 2:24:11.840 crocodilians need water to survive. But during the dry season 2:24:12.320 --> 2:24:14.760 in Costa Rica, you see him walking in the woods. 2:24:15.600 --> 2:24:18.800 I was like, how way far away from any water, 2:24:19.040 --> 2:24:22.240 like how many miles? Like we've seen him like five 2:24:22.320 --> 2:24:26.279 kilometers from the nearest water body or more. But presumably 2:24:27.080 --> 2:24:30.360 presumably he's heading out looking for a new water hole. 2:24:30.959 --> 2:24:35.480 That's penguin the problem. Well, I don't know, Like intuitively, 2:24:35.800 --> 2:24:39.320 going up a limestone mountain escarpment would not be where 2:24:39.320 --> 2:24:43.360 you'd go to find water. But yet sometimes you see 2:24:43.400 --> 2:24:45.920 them up there in the middle of it. If he's 2:24:46.000 --> 2:24:47.400 up there where he eats something, if it came in 2:24:47.480 --> 2:24:51.360 front of him, he tried to eat me. Oh really, well, 2:24:51.480 --> 2:24:55.160 I'm the jerk again. I caught him and so we 2:24:55.320 --> 2:24:59.240 had an aggressive interaction, but caught him up in the woods, 2:24:59.360 --> 2:25:01.720 caught him up in the woods. We were driving back 2:25:01.760 --> 2:25:05.840 from sampling to where we stay a station, a little 2:25:05.879 --> 2:25:10.720 biological station, and on the road we saw nine footer. 2:25:11.520 --> 2:25:14.000 Really yeah, We got out of the car, chased him 2:25:14.000 --> 2:25:16.600 ind of the woods, caught him, got her sample. I mean, 2:25:16.680 --> 2:25:18.840 those those are the animals that you really want to 2:25:18.879 --> 2:25:23.240 put like a SAT tracker on to find out what 2:25:23.320 --> 2:25:25.000 he's up to. What are they up to in the 2:25:25.120 --> 2:25:28.760 woods up there? I mean it's crazy, But yeah, if 2:25:28.840 --> 2:25:31.800 the water hole dries up, I give him less of 2:25:31.840 --> 2:25:37.640 a chance. But again, you see, alligators would walk to 2:25:37.760 --> 2:25:40.959 go but yeah, whole of dry up and he would 2:25:40.959 --> 2:25:43.480 eventually light out. Yeah, yeah, he's out. It's gonna be like, oh, 2:25:43.480 --> 2:25:46.000 I guess I'm doomed. Unlike that one I saw on 2:25:46.040 --> 2:25:48.240 the bank. It just goes up there and sits down here, 2:25:48.720 --> 2:25:51.080 strike out looking for water. Yeah, they'll walk around, and 2:25:51.120 --> 2:25:53.000 I think they walk around on land so much more 2:25:53.040 --> 2:25:55.640 than we give him any grud for got it all 2:25:55.720 --> 2:25:59.080 right for a real My last final one. If I'm 2:25:59.200 --> 2:26:02.960 down the floor with my kids and you know it's 2:26:03.000 --> 2:26:07.359 pawd nearby, there's eight foot or sun in itself, what's 2:26:07.440 --> 2:26:10.080 the best way to approach it? How close can you 2:26:10.200 --> 2:26:13.000 get and be safe, check it out, you know, let 2:26:13.040 --> 2:26:16.400 your kids get a good love, you know, worry it 2:26:16.400 --> 2:26:20.680 a little bit. Yeah, yeah, but but but be safe. Well, 2:26:20.720 --> 2:26:25.080 the safe answer, there's a pair of binoculars. That's not 2:26:25.160 --> 2:26:28.040 the answer. You're listening, we're looking for. You want to 2:26:28.080 --> 2:26:32.000 get close. Say now, I'm liable here. I would say 2:26:32.040 --> 2:26:36.760 that if you stay outside of fifty feet of that thing, now, 2:26:36.800 --> 2:26:40.320 assuming that there's not a nest around, because nesting females 2:26:40.400 --> 2:26:46.760 that are attentive will not want you there, varying personality 2:26:46.920 --> 2:26:49.000 far out of their way to make sure you don't 2:26:49.000 --> 2:26:51.240 go in hear that nest. So I mean I would 2:26:51.280 --> 2:26:55.039 stay as far away as feasibly possible, and don't mess 2:26:55.640 --> 2:26:58.360 you at the water's edd. I would use binoculars and 2:26:58.480 --> 2:27:05.480 don't mess around at the water's edd. Yeah, that would 2:27:05.520 --> 2:27:10.400 have meant that my childhood hadn't happened. Take the water's 2:27:10.520 --> 2:27:12.760 edge away. It was spent the water's edge. It's all 2:27:12.800 --> 2:27:16.600 you ever did. Yeah, you don't go down by the lake. 2:27:16.800 --> 2:27:19.280 See what's going on down there? Go rastle a gate. 2:27:20.240 --> 2:27:23.520 I mean a huge impact on yeh. We staid at 2:27:23.560 --> 2:27:26.360 that house down there and we were what was that 2:27:26.560 --> 2:27:31.480 river that was falling bias that we went fishing at. Anyways, 2:27:31.480 --> 2:27:34.080 there was a dock and a some kind of a waterway, 2:27:34.840 --> 2:27:38.440 and you know, it was nice enough where you think, gosh, 2:27:38.480 --> 2:27:40.880 we could just go for a swim. But you can't 2:27:40.959 --> 2:27:44.480 go for a swim. You can, but you assume a 2:27:44.560 --> 2:27:48.280 large risk in doing so, right, I mean, nobody in 2:27:48.280 --> 2:27:50.320 the right minds gonna let their kids go jumping off 2:27:50.360 --> 2:27:52.680 the dock. I'm not gonna let my kids go jumping 2:27:52.720 --> 2:27:57.640 off that dock. Yeah, and when I say fifty feet, 2:27:58.080 --> 2:28:00.440 I would say fifty feet with a fence between you 2:28:00.800 --> 2:28:04.320 and the animal. Okay, So follow up question, how fast 2:28:04.680 --> 2:28:07.400 can that eight foot or move on dry ground covered 2:28:07.440 --> 2:28:11.320 at fifty feet? They can move surprisingly fast if they 2:28:11.440 --> 2:28:15.600 want you away. I mean, if you're an alligator on 2:28:16.640 --> 2:28:21.040 not me, okay, No, I mean you guys can run away. 2:28:22.040 --> 2:28:26.119 But if you're approaching that thing, it has explosive energy 2:28:26.360 --> 2:28:28.920 and it can move pretty short distances, way faster than 2:28:28.959 --> 2:28:31.400 people give it credit for. Just stay away from it. 2:28:31.640 --> 2:28:34.720 Go to a zoo home. What are you into the zoo? 2:28:34.959 --> 2:28:36.760 Look at it? But oh, if you want to get 2:28:36.760 --> 2:28:43.000 a glass pane between you, yeah, yeah, all right, so 2:28:43.120 --> 2:28:46.240 you probably don't want people tracking you down? Do you 2:28:46.280 --> 2:28:47.640 want people to get a hold you and say, like, 2:28:47.760 --> 2:28:50.560 here's where you're wrong? Now they can email us, I 2:28:50.640 --> 2:28:54.720 mean email you. Yeah, I'll be happy to take follow 2:28:54.840 --> 2:28:57.520 up stuff email. I mean a lot of this stuff 2:28:57.520 --> 2:28:59.240 we're talking about so interesting, but there's not a lot 2:28:59.240 --> 2:29:01.600 of empirical they published on some of this stuff, you know, 2:29:01.720 --> 2:29:04.920 so so it's all out for exploration, a lot of it. 2:29:06.360 --> 2:29:09.600 And hence I have a job. Well, like if someone 2:29:09.680 --> 2:29:12.000 wanted to read some of your research, where would they 2:29:12.040 --> 2:29:15.120 go do that and find it? Or they can go 2:29:15.200 --> 2:29:19.880 to my website, they can go to research gate, which 2:29:19.959 --> 2:29:23.520 is sort of a yepe nerd repository for all things 2:29:23.600 --> 2:29:27.400 that you publish. Google scholar is a phenomenal resource that 2:29:27.520 --> 2:29:30.240 the public usually doesn't know about, but they can search 2:29:30.320 --> 2:29:34.960 peer view literature using Google scholar and help bridge the 2:29:35.040 --> 2:29:41.680 gap between science and the public. Wonderful resource there, Crocodilian 2:29:41.760 --> 2:29:46.360 biologist Chris Murray of Southeastern Louisiana University. You can send 2:29:46.480 --> 2:29:49.200 all of your anecdotal contradictions to war he said today 2:29:50.480 --> 2:29:57.879 address it's just the meat Eater podcast at the meat 2:29:58.000 --> 2:30:00.720 Eater dot does that live else? We've got our own 2:30:00.760 --> 2:30:04.480 email Okay, So when something crazy happens and you find 2:30:04.520 --> 2:30:08.280 a human skull in the woods, call email us. Then 2:30:08.360 --> 2:30:11.040 call nine one one right exactly. We want we want 2:30:11.080 --> 2:30:15.840 all your breaking news stuff. The meat Eater podcast at 2:30:16.000 --> 2:30:20.120 the mediator dot com. Who came up with that? Me 2:30:20.160 --> 2:30:21.959 and GRN texts about it yesterday? If you really need 2:30:22.000 --> 2:30:28.080 to know, Um, it could have been podcast, But I 2:30:28.280 --> 2:30:29.880 was like, we have that, but it's so but no, 2:30:30.040 --> 2:30:32.720 I don't know. We want our own for our own 2:30:32.920 --> 2:30:36.199 hot tips, yeah, hot, and then and then, but don't 2:30:36.360 --> 2:30:38.240 when you want to have when you want to have 2:30:38.360 --> 2:30:41.080 anecdotal evidence that contradicts what you heard to day, Chris 2:30:41.240 --> 2:30:48.640 Murray send it to Southeastern louis Louisiana University saying I 2:30:48.800 --> 2:30:53.040 killed one that was eighty easy. You can still send 2:30:53.080 --> 2:30:56.480 that to us. I'll filter it, Chris, don't you worry 2:30:56.520 --> 2:31:01.200 anything to begin with? She send it up. Steve. Did 2:31:01.240 --> 2:31:03.080 he feel about a biologist coming in here and giving 2:31:03.120 --> 2:31:05.760 relatively direct answers and not trying to get it good? 2:31:05.840 --> 2:31:09.240 He got? He did that little wishy washy deal they do. 2:31:10.160 --> 2:31:12.039 I can't remember what he was doing it about. Oh 2:31:12.120 --> 2:31:15.680 how fast they grow, little wishy washy. He brought home. 2:31:15.760 --> 2:31:17.560 He brought it home, he brought home. He he want 2:31:17.640 --> 2:31:20.320 up coming down with an answer. It wasn't. It wasn't 2:31:20.360 --> 2:31:24.400 all like it depends what about this depends and this depends. 2:31:25.760 --> 2:31:28.960 It does depend, But nobody wants to hear that on here. 2:31:29.040 --> 2:31:32.840 So what I like asking scientists is when they're doing research, 2:31:33.080 --> 2:31:39.039 like asking what do they hope happens? Smoke comes out 2:31:39.080 --> 2:31:42.720 of their ears? What do you hope happens? Well, that's 2:31:42.760 --> 2:31:44.760 the whole point. I can't hope because I gotta be unbiased. 2:31:44.800 --> 2:31:47.760 I'm like, by no, you hope something that happens. I know, 2:31:47.920 --> 2:31:50.280 you hope it's interesting. Yeah, Like when you put a 2:31:50.320 --> 2:31:52.680 collar on the links, I'd be like, be like, what 2:31:52.760 --> 2:31:54.880 do you hope happens? And they're supposed to Probably they'd 2:31:54.920 --> 2:31:56.879 be like, well, we just want to catch the data. 2:31:57.120 --> 2:31:58.520 I'd put it on and be like, I hope this 2:31:58.560 --> 2:32:01.680 thing turns up some crazy that's place. But I would 2:32:01.720 --> 2:32:03.600 never be able to say it. I'd say I just 2:32:03.680 --> 2:32:06.840 want to have an accurate representation. I mean, while I'm like, 2:32:06.879 --> 2:32:09.320 wouldn't be sweet of some guy in Iowa found this links? 2:32:10.920 --> 2:32:15.040 You know they're hoping, they're hoping it happens all right, 2:32:15.879 --> 2:32:32.480 thank everybody, thanks, thank you. Right, oh see your gray 2:32:33.680 --> 2:32:48.320 shine like silvering in the sun. Right, all right, my right, sweetheart, 2:32:49.280 --> 2:32:54.520 we're done. Beat this damn course, dad taking her now 2:32:54.600 --> 2:33:05.200 one right, unbeat this damn horse today, So take your 2:33:05.240 --> 2:33:07.320 new one and ride on.