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Speaker 1: This is a me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear. Listening to huntcast,

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Speaker 1: you can't predict anything presented by first Light, creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear.

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Speaker 1: For every hunt first Light, go farther, stay longer, All right, Everybuddy.

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Speaker 1: In the Animals of Sexy Animal podcasts, of which we've

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Speaker 1: done many, this one takes the cake. The MYSTERI Well,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be exploring the mysterious family of what was

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Speaker 1: it family? H Yeah? Order the order of Crocodilian Crocodilia Yeah,

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Speaker 1: meaning we're gonna focus on the American alligator in the

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Speaker 1: American crocodile sure with Chris Murray of Southeastern Louisiana University

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Speaker 1: also does a lot of like you, also do a

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Speaker 1: lot of little TV stuff. I did some stuff for

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Speaker 1: Animal Plant in a while back. Yanni saw you gator wrestling. Yep,

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Speaker 1: it happens. Part of the job, dude, I got some

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Speaker 1: gator questions for you. Man, let's do it. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: stump you with some basics, good studies. Check this out

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Speaker 1: his expertise. Now you got so many things stacked in here.

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Speaker 1: That is it really uh fair to say it's expertise

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Speaker 1: depends on what you're looking at. Well, I'm told I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at comparative morphology yep. Check, physiological ecology check, Eco

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Speaker 1: toxicology check. That's got to be like um um contaminants yep,

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Speaker 1: building up in animals yep. So eco talk like why

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Speaker 1: how if you eat too much TUNEA, your hands go

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Speaker 1: numb and you can't remember why you called your friend?

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Speaker 1: Exactly like that eco toxic with alligators. Oh so withinligators,

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Speaker 1: they they stored that shit up. Oh yeah, and they're

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Speaker 1: really good at letting us know what's out there in

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Speaker 1: the ecosystem. Yeah, I'll go on evolution. I'll buy that.

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Speaker 1: Biogeography in part philosophy of biology. Oh that's my jam. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we could talk about that herpetology. I'll buy that originally

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Speaker 1: from New York City. I have a hard time buying that.

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Speaker 1: And still a drummer in the band called the Clado Jams.

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Speaker 1: I don't know clayto jams yep. I wish that wasn't

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Speaker 1: brought up, but I guess it was Crane put in

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Speaker 1: the notes. Yeah, but you don't know because, as Yannie

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Speaker 1: likes to point out to every single person that walks

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Speaker 1: in the door, you don't get to see the notes

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Speaker 1: that comfortable. I'm so explained it because all of us

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Speaker 1: would be looking at this document besides you. But then

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Speaker 1: not to worry. It's better that way. Joined it also

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Speaker 1: by Yannis, but tell us Currant of course is here.

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Speaker 1: Wild Phil on the keyboards, and uh we call it

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Speaker 1: a little thing you got down there film just a

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Speaker 1: soundboard sound boy. Yeah, I'll take a wild field though.

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Speaker 1: And Brodie Henderson is here. This is a quick promotion

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Speaker 1: something I didn't even know about until right now. Our

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Speaker 1: guests still doesn't know about because he can't see the notes.

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon's Working for Wildlife Tour, Mark Kenyon, how thanks

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Speaker 1: for letting me know, Buddy Yanni wanted to go. He

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Speaker 1: didn't know about it, Mark Kenyon, says Mark kennyon a

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Speaker 1: very Mark Kenyon from Wired to Hunt. I've put together

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Speaker 1: something called the Working for Wildlife Tour, which is great.

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Speaker 1: That's me editorializing back to Mark to help bring attention

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Speaker 1: to public land volunteer days by way of participating in

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Speaker 1: promoting and documenting six of these events across the country.

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Speaker 1: So this is people. This is uh, you don't need

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Speaker 1: to be one, but I'm guessing a lot of hunters

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Speaker 1: and anglers and maybe just other folk getting together to

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Speaker 1: do working for wildlife work on public lands. Okay, the

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Speaker 1: first event kicked off in Massachusetts. Over the rest of

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Speaker 1: the year, they got him coming up in Michigan, Idaho, Missouri, Mississippi,

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Speaker 1: and Kentucky. If you want to help out how they're

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Speaker 1: gonna find his link? Rin Okay, you know what, like,

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Speaker 1: can you put it in the notes? Yeah, I'll put it.

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Speaker 1: I'll put the link in the show notes. But you

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Speaker 1: can also go to the meat Eator website and uh,

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Speaker 1: let's see, you can search yeah, working for wildlife in

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Speaker 1: this in the little search bar on the meat eater

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Speaker 1: dot com. Yeah. So if you're on Spotify right and

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Speaker 1: you go, um, you're looking at media podcasts and you're

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Speaker 1: thinking what you want to listen to, and you see like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's a clever title. Um. If you keep reading beyond

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Speaker 1: the clever title, you'll find the link too if you

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Speaker 1: want to participate again. Massachusetts already been mopped up, but Michigan, Idaho, Missouri, Mississippi,

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Speaker 1: and Kentucky public land users getting together to volunteer to

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Speaker 1: do wildlife work on public lands. Also still out, still

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Speaker 1: coming our brand new title Catch Crayfish Coump Stars, available

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Speaker 1: for pre order now ships in June. Again it is enacted.

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Speaker 1: How many activities are in there, Brodie hundred No, I

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Speaker 1: think it's night around eighty total activities to get kids

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Speaker 1: engaged with involved and educated about the outdoors, educated about

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Speaker 1: hunting and fishing and wildlife, educated about gardening, preparing foods

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Speaker 1: in the home, celestial navigation, making various weapons, everything you

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Speaker 1: need to raise to raise a smart engaged kid who

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Speaker 1: I like to point out has kind of a raw

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Speaker 1: edge to him. Catch Crayfish Coump Stars. We just found

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Speaker 1: out about some hoser on Amazon selling of fake which

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Speaker 1: I didn't know till this morning is very common um,

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Speaker 1: and I don't even think they go after him. I

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Speaker 1: think they just shut him down. I want to know

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Speaker 1: if you get an actual book or if you just

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Speaker 1: send money and just never see anything. My wife said

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Speaker 1: that one time there was a guy who had somehow

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Speaker 1: printed off and was selling my book, but it was

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Speaker 1: a spiral bound copy of one of my books. He's

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Speaker 1: just like making him in his kitchen. This guy's name

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Speaker 1: is Oh, well, it's probably not his actual name, Robert G. Burgoyne. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: get his ass him. Yeah, don't buy that one. You

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Speaker 1: know what happened last night. That's how we got a

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Speaker 1: sixty two pound beaver over the weekend. So he had

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Speaker 1: this beaver had I'm not kidding you, in the back

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Speaker 1: of his skull. He had a mushroomed, a perfectly mushroomed

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Speaker 1: twenty two round mushroomed against the back of its skull.

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Speaker 1: The way mushroomed that dude had to be like got him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: didn't like just through the high land like land against

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Speaker 1: the skull. I said, I'm gonna save it. It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: I already did save it, perfectly mushroomed lead twenty two

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Speaker 1: round baked against the back of its skull. But was

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Speaker 1: there any cracks in the skull or just the Yeah, nothing,

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Speaker 1: just an annoyance to that big beaver. Yeah, you didn't

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Speaker 1: imagine that dude all day. It was like, I swear

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Speaker 1: I got him right in the head. Uh. Oh. So

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Speaker 1: to get the book, go on Amazon wherever you buy books.

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Speaker 1: You know, in the old days, you get in trouble

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Speaker 1: for sending people to Amazon because other bookstores to get annoyed.

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Speaker 1: So go wherever you buy books, call your local friendly bookstore.

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Speaker 1: If you have a local bookstore, that'd be a good idea,

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Speaker 1: and tell me you want the book. It releases in June.

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Speaker 1: So we're gon we're gonna talk a lot more about

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Speaker 1: it and do some stuff. But um, I become intensely

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Speaker 1: interested having three kids in mine, I become intensely interested

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Speaker 1: in making sure I expose them um to the outdoors.

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Speaker 1: And two issues about wildlife management. And if you know,

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Speaker 1: if they grow up and become total city slickers, at

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Speaker 1: least know they got that floating around the back of

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Speaker 1: their head. Uh, Carmen, right, we should we talk to

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Speaker 1: Carmen now man, we had on a quite a few

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Speaker 1: What was that episode called Krin Do you remember when

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Speaker 1: we had Carmen van Bianchion. It was called Split and Delivered,

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Speaker 1: episode four thirteen. If you go back to the if

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Speaker 1: you go back to the episode called Split and Delivered, Oh,

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Speaker 1: Krann on the point of that beaver with the yep, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know what I say, if I keep I heard

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Speaker 1: about this and I was gonna bring it to you,

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Speaker 1: is have you heard like that? You just take those

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Speaker 1: feet and give them to those big ass back feet

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Speaker 1: from Chew Toys for dogs. No, I had no idea

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Speaker 1: people do that. There's a lot of gold, but it's

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Speaker 1: like how much better to salt it, preserve it and

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Speaker 1: make like a pendant out of it. Yeah, I had

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Speaker 1: something I was saving for you too. I got anything

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Speaker 1: to give you. I think I gotta right here, Hormett.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to see what this is, Steve YETI

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Speaker 1: el Camino bag where there's beaver hats best? Oh no, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll find it. Um, let's get let's get Karmen. Oh.

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Speaker 1: So if you go back to the episode, um, a

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Speaker 1: few episodes back, I'll see an episode called Splitting Delivered

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Speaker 1: in which up top. In that episode we spoke with

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Speaker 1: frequent podcast guests. We've kind of tracked her through her

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Speaker 1: her career. I don't want to say her young career,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, like at her I don't know, I think

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Speaker 1: she's still in her young career. Yeah, it's pretty you know,

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Speaker 1: she's just getting going as a body. Yeah, it's been fun.

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Speaker 1: So we've had Karmen and I don't know, four or

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Speaker 1: five times as she's gone through like tech positions and

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Speaker 1: now she's very established with Home Range is a home

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Speaker 1: Range Wildlife. She came on the show and she has

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Speaker 1: started with some colleagues or her they started a nonprofit

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Speaker 1: wildlife research organization and they are working on a project

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Speaker 1: where they're studying how links are using burned off landscapes

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Speaker 1: so successional forests coming in after these mega wildfires that

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Speaker 1: we have in the west. Now, how links use those landscapes?

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Speaker 1: Are those landscapes helpful? The links? Like, what how to

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Speaker 1: links interact with this new emerging ecosystem out there that's

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Speaker 1: coming in the back end of fires. But one of

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Speaker 1: the big things befuddling their efforts to get some links

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Speaker 1: Radio Collared was having a bunch of snowmobiles that were

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Speaker 1: like older than Carmen. Carmen came on the show and

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Speaker 1: she had put together a way to help her nonprofit

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Speaker 1: raise money for snowmobiles. And my god, did you guys

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Speaker 1: um really come forth in a huge way. Carmen's embarrassed

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Speaker 1: to admit how much money they raised. Yeah, let's get

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Speaker 1: it on the line. Let's get it on the line.

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Speaker 1: And we're just gonna do a quick quick check in

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Speaker 1: because they've been they've been whacking the links you. I

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Speaker 1: don't think you say that when your radio collar. Probably

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Speaker 1: not a good way to put it, all right, Carmons.

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Speaker 1: So you guys, since you, since you've been on, you

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Speaker 1: and your colleagues at Home Range Wildlife have gotten three links. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you're trying to get you're trying to get four. Well,

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Speaker 1: that would be amazing because we've got four collars, but

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Speaker 1: we've already, um one was my goal, So to have

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Speaker 1: three is just awesome. We're already now because really one

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Speaker 1: collar left, we've got a hole more night so their

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Speaker 1: traps open that. Well, we'll try for a miracle to

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Speaker 1: get all four out, but otherwise we'll be you know,

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Speaker 1: getting more callers for next year. And so everything now

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Speaker 1: is just sort of a cherry on top. What's the

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Speaker 1: farthest that one of those links as strayed from the

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Speaker 1: capture site yet? Oh? I haven't measured that, but not

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Speaker 1: very far, not going very far, yeah, which is kind

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Speaker 1: of cool. I mean totally anecdotal at this point. But um,

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Speaker 1: and this, you know, my thinking may change down the

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Speaker 1: road as we learn more. But one thing people have

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Speaker 1: feared is that because they're living in what's a regenerating

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Speaker 1: burn that they in theory might have really large home

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Speaker 1: ranges because the habitat quality could be poor. So to

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Speaker 1: see that they're not covering a whole lot of ground

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Speaker 1: could be a good sign that the habitats richer than

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Speaker 1: people have supposed got it. And then you can you

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Speaker 1: give us quick so that we'll be update like where

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Speaker 1: you guys are at on snow and bills. Oh man,

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Speaker 1: we're in a good spot. So we have since that

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Speaker 1: since we were on we got a nice twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: one uh Polaris that has been doing really well. And

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Speaker 1: then we also were able to purchase two brand new

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Speaker 1: Scudo expeditions that have just been awesome. And we've already

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Speaker 1: put almost two thousand miles on those brand new sleds.

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Speaker 1: Really well. Oh yeah, we're going at least fifty miles

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Speaker 1: a day, sometimes one hundred, So damn really do a

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Speaker 1: lot of writing. Yeah, oh yeah, man, I want to

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Speaker 1: switch jobs. Man. Then uh, you guys, you guys got

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Speaker 1: to do trailer for him too. We gotta do trailer

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Speaker 1: and enclosed trailer, which for where we live that there

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Speaker 1: are tons of mormots, uh and mice and stuff. That's

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Speaker 1: gonna be really nice for in the summer for storing them.

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Speaker 1: So we feel like we've protected our investment. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're feeling pretty pimped out. That is great. I appreciate

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Speaker 1: the check in. I know that, man, I had a

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Speaker 1: lot of friends after you came out. I had a

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Speaker 1: lot of friends text me their little receipt things from

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Speaker 1: having participated in the from having participated in the adopted

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Speaker 1: set thing. And I know that I've been dealing with

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Speaker 1: Ford Well krimsmen deal with forward over at first Light

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Speaker 1: to get the winners set up with their cold weather gear,

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Speaker 1: of their cold weather collection of First Light gear. So

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it coming back on and check and then

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Speaker 1: was I'm glad you guys got the snow bill problem

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Speaker 1: taken care of, and I hope you catch the fourth links.

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Speaker 1: Thanks well, we just appreciate so much you and your listeners.

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Speaker 1: The outpouring has been incredible, so I just want to

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Speaker 1: thank everybody for your support. It's been super fun. I

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Speaker 1: got one request for our you don't need to print it,

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Speaker 1: but can you make us for our podcast studio a

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Speaker 1: graphic that has all the lines running around when you

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Speaker 1: eventually look at all the data. That's cool. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: that'd be awesome, Like, so a different color for each

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Speaker 1: link and show how they're zooming around. Yeah yeah, I'd

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Speaker 1: like that. Um yeah, and then when one dies, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna go find out what happened to it, right, yep? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want the skull off that links. Is that possible?

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Speaker 1: Tell you what. That's one of the skulls that I

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Speaker 1: don't have in my collection, So we might have to fight. Well,

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Speaker 1: I have the second one. I'm not wishing. I'm not

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Speaker 1: like wishing ill upon your links, you know. I hope

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Speaker 1: they have. I hope they die old age someday. Oh hey,

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you. I gotta tell you a tip,

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Speaker 1: and then then I'm gonna let you go. All right.

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Speaker 1: We had that bobcat at that Bobcat expert on Mrcer Longing,

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Speaker 1: and I think that you later had some communication with

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Speaker 1: Mercer about because he's he's he does a lot of

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Speaker 1: cage he catches bobcats for research and also the fur markets.

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Speaker 1: He the other day told me about how they were

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Speaker 1: out doing the telemetry. I think they still do that.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, telemetry on a Bobcat and they lost the

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Speaker 1: signal and he thought it must have went into a

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Speaker 1: cave or something. So he started wailing on a predator

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Speaker 1: calling Alsen got the signal back huh, Like he pulled

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Speaker 1: it out, he drew it, and he drew it out

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Speaker 1: of his spot enough to pick the signal back up.

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Speaker 1: All right, send me that post. Yeah, you don't need

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Speaker 1: to print it. We'll print it, but send me my

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Speaker 1: poster and at school. All right, thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: You're welcome back on the show anytime. All right, Mike

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Speaker 1: m see you guys. Thank you everybody so much. Okay, Uh,

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Speaker 1: speaking of capturing and collar and stuff, this is a

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Speaker 1: crazy story. So they just got the first ever wolverine captured, collared,

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Speaker 1: and released in Utah. So basically, like, um, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if Cowwell Print did her math on this. She

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Speaker 1: thinks it was. Basically, while we were recording our wolverine

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Speaker 1: episode with with Rebecca Waters Waters wols Waters, a wolverine

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Speaker 1: was seen in Utah, Okay, only the eighth confirmed sighting

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Speaker 1: in the state of Utah since nineteen seventy nine, the

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Speaker 1: first one ever captured biologists in Utah. This thing had

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Speaker 1: had a busy morning. He had killed how many sheep?

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Speaker 1: I think it was it eighteen? This guy killed this

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Speaker 1: wolverine comes in and kills eighteen sheep in a morning.

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Speaker 1: What's the term for that, when a predator goes surplus killer?

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Speaker 1: Yea wait, let me make sure I didn't make a mistake. Yeah, eighteen.

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Speaker 1: What to ask the croc guy if they do surplus killer,

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Speaker 1: if gatters do surplus killing crocs and gators, let's ask

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Speaker 1: him right now, right now. You know what surplus killing is,

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Speaker 1: killing more than you can eat. They get a little

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Speaker 1: carried away. Yeah, they're getting a pen full of llamas

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Speaker 1: like a mountain lion. It's always it's always domestic animals. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't really see that at all in alligators and crocodiles.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they pretty much have a hard enough time

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Speaker 1: eating what they actually are able to acquire. Shrimp and stuff.

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Speaker 1: I mean they eat a lot of those, but if

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Speaker 1: they grab a hole to something pretty big, it takes

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Speaker 1: them a long time to actually, you know, actually do

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Speaker 1: anything with that meal. Like a deer, So if he

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Speaker 1: kills killing, if he kills a deer and he stashes

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Speaker 1: it and another deer shows up, he's not gonna grab

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Speaker 1: that one and stash it too. Probably not. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they'll typically like launch at a deer from the water's edge,

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Speaker 1: and they'll stick it in the water and then stick

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Speaker 1: it under a log under the water until the meat

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Speaker 1: gets a little bit a little bit easier, and then

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Speaker 1: have a snack for a month or two. They blow

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Speaker 1: a lot of energy killing one large thing, tons of ends,

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Speaker 1: so they can't kill another one, you know, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so this guy. So they go in there, they want

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Speaker 1: to catch it, put a collar on it. They're going

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Speaker 1: to clean up all the dead sheep. Then they set

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Speaker 1: two barrel traps with hind quarters and later catch the wolverine.

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Speaker 1: Where where where was this? Randolph? Utah? Jannat used to

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Speaker 1: live in Utah? Where's that? Never heard of ring in

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Speaker 1: rich County. I don't know where that is. Oh they

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Speaker 1: even they brought it out of the wild and into

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Speaker 1: a yea lab of sorts and to do the study,

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Speaker 1: do the work up. Three to four years old, twenty

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Speaker 1: eight pounds, forty one inches. Tip of nose, the tip

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Speaker 1: of tail forty one's big. Because Rebecca, I remember, he's

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Speaker 1: writing line, he's writing line, He's cute. After the um,

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Speaker 1: after the aired, I had a lot of friends sending

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Speaker 1: me like um pictures of wolverines that they are in

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Speaker 1: the news or that they found or their buddy found.

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Speaker 1: And then I'd be like, what's up with that? He goes, well,

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Speaker 1: that was eight years ago. I'm like, oh, okay, cold,

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Speaker 1: it's cold trail now Randolph looks like it's about eighty

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Speaker 1: ish miles northeast of Salt Lake City. Thanks Phil. So

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Speaker 1: that's pretty cool and interesting. Um, okay, this is the

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Speaker 1: absolute final word. Krin thinks it's perhaps the final word.

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Speaker 1: It's the final word. That's the final word. I'd refried beans.

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Speaker 1: I grew up, someone wrote in He says he's got

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Speaker 1: a potentially controversial take on the whole subject. He grew

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Speaker 1: up in New Mexico, but spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: living in Chile. I'm thinking about switching. Switching what well,

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Speaker 1: I went from Iran to Iran. Oh, it's on. I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about going from Chile to Chile. A matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: you already made the transition. A matter of fact that

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Speaker 1: had I was doing one of my old books. I

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Speaker 1: was doing a new audio because we got the audio

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Speaker 1: rights back one of my old books at the ten

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Speaker 1: year mark, and I had to do it. And I

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Speaker 1: did Chile sound a little pretentious, but um, spend some

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Speaker 1: time living in Chile. Not being a native Spanish speaker,

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Speaker 1: I learned to speak fluently when living in South America.

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Speaker 1: I believe this issue is more of a translation issue.

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Speaker 1: The word in Mexican Spanish is frijoles rifritos or in

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Speaker 1: Chilan Spanish pirotos rifritos. Am I doing semi good? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: The issue is The issue is the suffix re. In English,

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Speaker 1: this suffix means to fry again. It would be taken

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Speaker 1: to be fry again refried. But in Spanish this suffix

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Speaker 1: can mean very fried. You can add this to any

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Speaker 1: word in Spanish, such as beating a dead horse. Like

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Speaker 1: this topic, what would be goan Yanni Cabio. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if this is true, but when I hear refried beans,

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Speaker 1: I hear very fried beans. I don't know. I wish

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Speaker 1: I would need to read that. I'll buy it. You

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Speaker 1: don't not really, I think it makes sense very fried beans.

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Speaker 1: It might. I'm bad I read it guys in Texas. Now, uh,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about this for like an hour.

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Speaker 1: Come on, let's just jump in and get it over with.

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Speaker 1: You want, okay? Yeah, it's an old story. Now it's

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Speaker 1: getting old. Kansas bans trail cams on public land. I

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Speaker 1: own trail cams. I like trail cams. I as we speak,

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Speaker 1: have a trail cam on public land in a place

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Speaker 1: that I'm gonna visit. I put it and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go on the one year mark and retrieve it. Last

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Speaker 1: time I did as I had forgot to turn it

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Speaker 1: on all winter. I'll wonder I'd rolled my wife not

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Speaker 1: talking about going up getting my camera. I got in

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Speaker 1: the coolest spot. I'm like, man, can you wait to

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Speaker 1: go and get my camera. It's gonna be amazing all

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Speaker 1: the ships on my camera. Now I go up there,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, dah, hadn't turn it on. Batries are still good.

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Speaker 1: Now wait a minute. In Montana, can you have him

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Speaker 1: out on public land? You can't transmit a signal? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I thought you couldn't have him out on public land

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Speaker 1: during big games? No, I think they can't. If that's

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Speaker 1: the case, I'm in violation. I could be making that

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Speaker 1: up in my head, but I think you can't have

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Speaker 1: any of that transmits a signal. You're talking the wrong person.

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Speaker 1: You're waiting to cut this out, and I'm minded to

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Speaker 1: go take my camera down. Yeah, it sounds like it.

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Speaker 1: For a while there's no trail cam use then it

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Speaker 1: became no trail cams that transmit a signal. I thought

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Speaker 1: there was a during big game season component to it.

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Speaker 1: I could be wrong, Yeah, but it seems it's changed

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Speaker 1: every year. You can't use one that transmits a signal

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Speaker 1: in any capacity toward using it to cat to process

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Speaker 1: taking game. That's the case. I'm gonna call a pancrats

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Speaker 1: and turn myself in. It's just thinking about calling him. Oh,

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Speaker 1: back to Kansas. I don't think that's true. Is it true? Well,

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Speaker 1: we should find out. Jesus. There's not even a place

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Speaker 1: I would hunt. I'm see you guys ever using for gators. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we do, actually, especially around alligator nests and stuff like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I have no idea regarding the legalities of that

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Speaker 1: where well, I'm sure for research purposes worry about it. Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's the semi headline or not not, I mean, like

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Speaker 1: the one liner. The one liner is this. With a

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Speaker 1: unanimous vote by its Game Commission, Kansas becomes the first

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Speaker 1: Midwestern white tail state to impose a year round dam

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Speaker 1: trull camera ban. So what was Arizonas was only partial

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Speaker 1: only during well. Arizonas in Utahs was public private this

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Speaker 1: they did it for private land too. Oh. I called

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Speaker 1: a friend of mine. I don't want to say his

401
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Speaker 1: name because I didn't ask me if I could say

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Speaker 1: his name. I call a friend of mine who like,

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Speaker 1: he does a lot of scouting for outfitters, and he

404
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Speaker 1: finds a lot of animals, you know. And I said,

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Speaker 1: I said, man, what's your take on it? He goes,

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Speaker 1: I love it. I go, you like the trail cam bam,

407
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: love it. He said, I'm a dinosaur. I've been in

408
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Speaker 1: this business a long time. I've been this game a

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Speaker 1: long time, and glassing, looking for tracks, looking for sheds.

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Speaker 1: That's where I excel because it goes. That's how I

411
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Speaker 1: was brought up. I learned my I learned my abilities

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Speaker 1: being in the woods. Yeah, I fall on that, and

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Speaker 1: he goes, and I got into it like I got

414
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Speaker 1: into it. But for me, I think it's great. And

415
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Speaker 1: he said, too, he saw what places like the Arizona strip.

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Speaker 1: He thinks you're gonna have it's gonna This is him

417
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: speaking and like him guessing, you're gonna have an improvement

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Speaker 1: of an age class box because he thinks it's gonna

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Speaker 1: go back to being there's bucks people don't know about,

420
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: because he said in the in these areas, like where

421
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,959
Speaker 1: he's at, he said, it's different. He goes where you're at,

422
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: there's a lot of water. He's come about Montana. There's

423
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: a lot of water here. Water is the thing. Okay,

424
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: all big game goes to water, and there's a finite

425
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: place for them to find water. So when you get

426
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: in the late summer, okay or whatever, the dry dry

427
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: seas probably that late summer, but but pre mon soon

428
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: when you go out, you're like, any deer is gonna

429
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 1: go here, here or here. Yeah, and with cameras and

430
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: and everybody knows about every deer. So he's he's optimistic

431
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: that it's gonna be that there's more dear slipping through

432
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: the cracks and it's going back to being like that

433
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: the woodsmen find the deer and it's not and it's

434
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: not a tech game. He knew a guy, he knew

435
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: a guy that was running over one hundred cameras. Oh yeah,

436
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: and that's common. I don't I don't think that one

437
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: hundred cameras is out of the ordinary. He had two

438
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: guys he talked about an outfitter that had two guys

439
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 1: on payroll that only ran cameras in searching for searching

440
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: for stuff for clients. Yeah. I like the mystery of

441
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: it all. So Kansas on public land there is like,

442
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: this is the thing I've become aware of in places.

443
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: It just kind of depends. We were in a place

444
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 1: in Florida where it was like it was like being

445
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: at seven to eleven for the amount of cameras aimed

446
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: at you on public land. Oh yeah, yeah, I could

447
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: see it becoming. Um, people that don't want to be

448
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: surveiled in photographed and do you have a sort of

449
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: like expectation of privacy. But in these areas where like

450
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 1: all the roads, all the trails are done, it like

451
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: I could see that it would get on people's nerves.

452
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Um. And like I said, man, I like like,

453
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: if it became that you couldn't, I wouldn't. Right, If

454
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: you couldn't, I wouldn't, But I I did. It's fun

455
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: using them. But I'm empathetic of the situation and the

456
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: fact that all unanimous vote no. It'll generate some hate

457
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: mail because I think people will say, well, you guys

458
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: get to hunt wherever you want to hunt, you're always

459
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: hunting some fancy private ranch and you don't need to scout.

460
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: And I'm a working man. I need these cameras to scout.

461
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: But it's we hunt a lot of public land and

462
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: that hunt. By having all those cameras that we had

463
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: to walk by every single day multiple times, it changed

464
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: the experience. Yeah, then people are like sending you messages

465
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: telling you finding you and on social like Yani, people

466
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: sending him messages on social being like I know where

467
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: you're at. That's ridiculous. Yeah, is this you, guys? Which

468
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: is that? That part? Like, I don't mind the person

469
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: reaching out. I try to answer to all the dms

470
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: on Instagram. That part's fine, But the experience of being

471
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: out there hunting, like I like to go into the

472
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: woods to be alone and be quiet and not have

473
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: I think another concerned people have about these kind of

474
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: laws too, is that they're coming from these UH commissions

475
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: that are appointed members and perhaps some of their like

476
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,959
Speaker 1: there might be a non hunting angle coming from some

477
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: of those commissioners, Like I've heard that in places too,

478
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 1: like the more he can restrict use, the more here

479
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: restricting hunters. You know, So three percent of Kansas is public. Okay,

480
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: here's an interesting thing. Here's what one of the commissioners

481
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: had to say. He said, So this is where he's

482
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: going on. He's not going on. He's not he This

483
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: commissioner is not speaking of the issue on a fair chase,

484
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: fair take. Okay, like unfair advantage. That's not where he's

485
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: going with it. Commissioner Gerald Lauber said that trail cameras

486
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: cause privacy issues and give rise to conflict when used

487
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: on heavily trafficed public land in Kansas. He didn't say that.

488
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: Here's what he says. Quote, there are some deliterious issues

489
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: when it comes to trail cameras. In some places, cameras

490
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: are used to spy on other hunters, and some people

491
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: recoil from seeing a camera. They're private, they don't want

492
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: to have somebody take their picture and then have it

493
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: on Facebook, which absolutely happens. Lawber went on to say

494
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: that trail cameras were sometimes used by hunters as a

495
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: means of staking claim to a particular section of public land.

496
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: Bubbly Dougs got all kinds of thoughts about the whole thing.

497
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: I can't I'll have to get back to. It's so

498
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: much I have to. I have to dig into it,

499
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,719
Speaker 1: say about it. You can get mad at me, Oh

500
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: you want I'm out on the Kansas Game Commission. Sure,

501
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: I was reporting the facts. Dude, it's the thing I see.

502
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: I see both sides. I see both sides to it.

503
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: As a camera owner, I like cameras. I have a

504
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: subscription m I like to putting them on beaver dams

505
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: to see what all goes over the beaver dam. I

506
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: like everything about them. If there was a thing where

507
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: you couldn't use them, I just I don't know. I'd

508
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, I understand, it's not something you know

509
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: what it is. It's not something. It's not something I

510
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: would take up. It's not something I would take up

511
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: the fight about because you can imagine, like it's easy

512
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: to imagine the extreme, where the extreme being you can't

513
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: walk down a trail without being photographed, which is probably

514
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: the case in many places that you can't go down

515
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: a path without being photographed. The guy I was talking about,

516
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: I wish I could. I should have checked with them

517
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: to talk about him. He said, Now every camera you

518
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: find an Arizona's got a bullet hole through it. Now

519
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: they're illegal people to shoot him. He said, there's still ones.

520
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: Just got a band it out in the woods, but

521
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: they all been shot by pistols. Wow, think about that. Hardcore. Okay,

522
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: we're ready to dig in on gators, dude. I got

523
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:40,959
Speaker 1: some questions about gators. But first I want to tell

524
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: you something. Do you hear about this that the Texas

525
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: Zoo rescues an alligator that was stolen as an egg

526
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: twenty years ago? Yeah? I did hear something about this

527
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: on social media. I don't know the full story though

528
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: a Texas Zoo. This is reported in the Guardian. I'm

529
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: the lukewarm on the Guardian sometimes I like it. A

530
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: Texas zoo said it had taken back an eight foot

531
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: alligator which was stolen as an egg more than twenty

532
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: years ago, then kept as a backyard pet. I mean,

533
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: this is this is from Texas Parking Wildlife. A woman

534
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: confessed to taking an egg from Animal World and Snake

535
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: Farm Zoo near Austin. It's just a non on her

536
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: for twenty for twenty that is heartbreaking. She was a

537
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: volunteer at Animal Farm way back then twenty years ago,

538
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: apparently stole the alligator as an egg. She put in

539
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: her pocket. That's heartbreaking, heartbreaking. It's actually kind of hard

540
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: to do. I can an alligator egg. It can't roll

541
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: one way or another, or the embryo will die. Is

542
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: that right? So she had to know what she was doing.

543
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: She put her an alligator egg and incubate it long

544
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: enough for it to hatch successfully. That's pretty hard to do.

545
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: Maybe she learned that at the Zoo Disney movie about

546
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: this lady. It's twenty years and they took it back.

547
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: Is it a mature gator at that? Oh? Yeah, eight

548
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: foot alligator is mature. And I could see an eight

549
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: foot alligator being twenty years old, especially in captivity. Talk

550
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 1: about being able to see two sides of a story.

551
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: I could see him one the alligator bag for twenty years.

552
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: It's like losing a leg. She faces misdemeanor charges for

553
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: a legal possession of an egg and possession of an

554
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: alligator without a permit. I mean, I get it, I

555
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: get it, But but misdemeanor. Though I get it. We

556
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: think about that film. You shouldn't have done it. I

557
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: don't know, Okay, picture it. You shouldn't have done it, Okay,

558
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: shouldn't have done it? Everybody knows that sure, does there

559
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: any little part in the back of your head be like, oh,

560
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: it's like losing a leg. Well, maybe she hated that alligator.

561
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: I don't know. It looks like she took pretty good

562
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: care of it. Twenty years. She's had that pet a

563
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of chickens and rats. Imagine, huh.

564
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: And if she stole it as an egg, so it's

565
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:36,919
Speaker 1: like what you think, like it bonded to her. I'll

566
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: take that to our guests. I have seen alligators in

567
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: that are pretty well trained, So I would imagine that

568
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 1: she would have a pretty strong emotional attachment to that animal.

569
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 1: I'm not sure about the opposite. So he's not crying,

570
00:35:54,920 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: he's not crying crocodile's years. Probably not, But would would

571
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: he be when he goes back to the zoo. Is

572
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: he going to be completely thrown off and out of

573
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: his element now? Or gosh? I think that's tough With

574
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,919
Speaker 1: all crocodilians, I mean, I think they're they're really good

575
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: at just sort of surviving in whatever enclosure they're in

576
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: until they're no longer surviving, you know, like it'll be fine,

577
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: I would imagine, But what about her? That's a different.

578
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: You see, like hate New Jersey cat laters ladies, but

579
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: he loved Texas ladies. Listen, if you said you can

580
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: spend a weekend or the New Jersey Cat lady or

581
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: a Texas gator lady, what do you say? Okay, when

582
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: you put it that way. Now, I know you don't

583
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: like doing this very much, Krim, but can you please

584
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: get her on the show for a calling? Just a calling? Okay,

585
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: it's not that I don't like doing it. I'll tell her.

586
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: I said that. I know it was bad what she did,

587
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: and we all know what she did was bad, but

588
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 1: we just want to hear about how tore up she is. Okay,

589
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: all right, and like what she fed it? Okay, Um,

590
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: I want to go back at the beginning on gators

591
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: and crocks in America. But first I want to I

592
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: got to clear something up which I can't stop thinking

593
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: about and talking about. I had occasion, Yannie and I

594
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: drew um some pretty sweet Wildlife Management Area turkey tags

595
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: in Florida this year. But I was down a few

596
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: days early and I did a little tour on some

597
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: public land right up against Everglades or up against the

598
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: National Park. Okay, okay, So I went out the guy

599
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: that has one of them big buggies. You know, the

600
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: ground was dry, but we took a swamp buggy, but

601
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: you could have driven into golf court golf cart. We

602
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: did with a little swamp buggy tour just for gets

603
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: some higgles, okay, and um in Big Cypress cool, yeah,

604
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: dry as a bone. Okay, there was a canal that

605
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: had water, but prior to it becoming um, prior to

606
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: becoming like Big Cypress, it had been at various times

607
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: grazed by cattle and people had had little homesteads out there.

608
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: So some of the areas out in Big Cyper, she'll

609
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: run into groves okay, like they'll be like fruit trees planted. Um,

610
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: you'll see like rusted old chunks of fence, you know,

611
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: hog fences like people would just kind of live and yeah,

612
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: probably squashed any of those. Any that fruit that you

613
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: saw hanging, We didn't find anything that was any fruit

614
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: that was fruiting except for sour oranges. We're trying that

615
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: bad like like some native but to see that wasn't

616
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 1: even like native citrus. But it was in this area,

617
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: so maybe someone would have just cultivated it there. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

618
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: I found grapefruit and those oranges, and it kind of

619
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: it might have been passed due, but yeah, they were

620
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: kind of just I don't want to say it, not

621
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: merely but grainy. Just yeah, a lot of That's what

622
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: I had was like that. Yeah, I mean you could

623
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: eat it, but it wasn't as you know, you've just

624
00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 1: been trained up one on our sweet oranges. So at

625
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 1: a time, someone had developed water holes for cattle, okay,

626
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: And so when you're cruising around, everything's like dry as

627
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: a bone. It gets wet sometimes but not right now.

628
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,479
Speaker 1: It's dry as a bone, and you'll see these dirt

629
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: tanks and you could even see like where years ago

630
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: someone had mounted all the dirt up so they'd be

631
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: like a berm or an impoundment. In some water holes

632
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: that I'm not shipping you are not that much bigger

633
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: than this podcast studio. Okay, but there's some eight foot

634
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: alligator ly in there. Yeah, I'm not surprised at all.

635
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: The hell is he eating? Like, what is he doing?

636
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: Probably just hanging out in water until there's a lot

637
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: more of it. I mean, alligators a lot of research

638
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: on alligators being really good ecosystem engineers. So when the

639
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: water goes away, they will dig out a hole like

640
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: that themselves that allow a lot of water or to

641
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: be there for other wildlife to come and utilize. Really,

642
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: so they can do that themselves and do every year.

643
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: But how long can he wait before, like presumably he's

644
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: sitting there thinking someday someone's gonna come get a drink yep, exactly,

645
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna smack it yep. And it happens all

646
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 1: the time. But how long can it not happen before

647
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: he's got a split? Yeah, Well, I don't think there's

648
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: anywhere else to go, you know, for them. But I'll

649
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: give you an example. So in Costa Rica, American crocodiles

650
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: will estivate during the dry season and bury themselves under

651
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: the mud for estivates, like try to avoid dying from

652
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: lack of water or heat. Right, So, like sometimes they'll

653
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: go into the woods. We don't actually know what they

654
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: do in the woods. Sometimes they'll go in like these

655
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: little limestone cave things, and sometimes they'll just let the

656
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 1: mud harden over top of them, and you can be

657
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: walking around they'll be under your feet. You can't see them,

658
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 1: but they'll stay there for a couple months before the

659
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: wet season returns in like early to mid May, not

660
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: even a chance to eat, not a chance to eat,

661
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: just hanging out waiting, So that alligator probably has a

662
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 1: pretty good shot at being successful for however long it

663
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: has to be there. The guy was with told me

664
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: that he's got I can't remember what he called him

665
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: caves or dens. What was he calling them? Probably wallows.

666
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: He's dug out the alligator holes. Yeah, they I mean,

667
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: they'll do that themselves. Talk about what that is alligator holes?

668
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,919
Speaker 1: Really you only see that down in South Florida where

669
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: there's times of the year where there's lack of water,

670
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: and there's been a lot of research on the utility

671
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: of alligator holes. But they'll essentially dig out a hole

672
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: that is, yeah, no bigger than this room we're in

673
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: right now, and allow themselves to hang out there in

674
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: water for months. And other animals need to utilize those

675
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: holes as well. So that's well, he's I thought he's

676
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 1: talking about like a like a little deep cave area.

677
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: He does, that's a walloway. The alligators will dig wallows

678
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: like in the sides of those holes. Yeah, and they'll

679
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: just go hang out in there underground, um for a

680
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: long time. How are they digging? Mm? They use it all.

681
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: They'll use their head, they'll use their front limbs and

682
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: just make a big hole. In fact, I don't think

683
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 1: we have a lot of footage on them making those

684
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: alligator wallows, which would be really cool footage to get,

685
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: but I guess not in Kansas because there's no cameras allowed. Yeah, well,

686
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: the private land gators, those are the spoiled gators. They

687
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: got it made. But like every time you see an

688
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: alligator nest, you'll see the nest up top and then

689
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: on the edge nearest the water, you'll see a hole.

690
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: And mom usually is sitting in that hole or outside

691
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: of that hole by her nest. If she's a good mom.

692
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: Got it. I want to go back to the beginning

693
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: on gators. We should go back at the beginning on YouTube.

694
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: How um you grew up in New York. Grew up

695
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 1: in New York, New Rochelle, New York. Turned nine there,

696
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: I think, spend a year in England. My dad was

697
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: a high school art teacher. Moved back to New York.

698
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: Moved to Connecticut to play high school baseball. That didn't

699
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: pan out very well. I'm a biologist, not a baseball player. Now,

700
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: but you wanted to be a full time baseball I

701
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: wanted to be a baseball player. I'm just not good

702
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: at baseball. It's the problem. Yeah, I could get in

703
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: the way. Yeah, it's a hardship I couldn't overcome. How'd

704
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: you get interested in I like living there where they

705
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: don't have them? How'd you get interested in them? Steve

706
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: Irwin watching the Steve Rwin Animal Planet when I was

707
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: a kid with my neighbor, we would I just got hooked.

708
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: We'd watch it every week and we actually we actually

709
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: bought one of those VHS recorders from a tag sail

710
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: and I would pretend to be Steve Irwin in the

711
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: backyard with toads and snakes and stuff like that. Yeah,

712
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: and it went down the whole it up. I never

713
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: watched them. Wow, look at this is he the guy

714
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: that had that tragic death where he got hit by

715
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: a stingray right through the heart. Is true? But yeah,

716
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: we would, uh make little home videos and then he

717
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: actually did a senior project when he was a senior

718
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: in high school. My buddy, my neighbor, No, I don't know,

719
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if he did uh where we went

720
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: down to South Florida and went to a wildlife refuge

721
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: and alligator farm, and we made a video there for

722
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: his senior project, and uh, that got me in touch

723
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: with sort of the more hands on aspect of working

724
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,399
Speaker 1: with these animals. And I said to myself, I want

725
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: to work here. And then having worked there for a while,

726
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: I learned that this could be a real job for me.

727
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: So I went to college. And before that, like, when

728
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: you were a kid, did you have like an affinity

729
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: for going out and catching like garter snakes and fro Yeah,

730
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: in Connecticut, I mean I would catch everything I get

731
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 1: my hands on. Me and my neighbor frogs and milk

732
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: snakes and hog no snakes and everything. I think it's

733
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: just something that is in people. You gotta go catch

734
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:18,720
Speaker 1: stuff called it's called worrying wildlife. Yeah, I mean kids

735
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: used to do it all the time. Now their parents

736
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: don't let them. Now they do it on an iPad.

737
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: They worry wildlife on an iPad. My kid does. He

738
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: likes to sund them stupid hunting video games drives um.

739
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: And then he studied what would you study general biology

740
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: and undergrad then went on for a master's degree at

741
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: Southeastern Louisiana University where I am now, and I focused

742
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 1: on My advisor was an evolutionary biologist, but I did

743
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: not focus on evolutionary biology at all. I focused on

744
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: the effects of stress on the reproductive output of American

745
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: alligators in Louisiana in Texas, and I was there at

746
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: a community time because the oil spill occurred, and so

747
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: I was able to look at how the oil spill

748
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 1: affected the stress of alligators as well, how the actual

749
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 1: oil or how the activity around the cleanup. What were

750
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: you looking at. Well, that's a tough thing to separate.

751
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: So there was this like dispersing stuff that was put

752
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: out because in eco toxicology, if it's out of sight,

753
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: it's out of mind kind of thing. Um, So it

754
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 1: was sort of a combination of just looking at the

755
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: entire scenario, either oil in the marsh I was working

756
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: in in southeast Louisiana or the dispersing stuff that was used.

757
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: Turns out large alligators just leave and small alligators stay

758
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: and get really stressed out. So the disperse it was

759
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: meant to to make it the alligators want to split.

760
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: It's hard to tell if it was the oil or

761
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: the dispersing what like, what do you what is dispersing? Yeah,

762
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: so it's this uh, it's this chemical they put out

763
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 1: in oil spills. I don't know much about it from

764
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: that's the oil from like getting together with other oil molecules.

765
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: So I thought you meant they were putting something out

766
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: to try to drive to disperse animals, to try to

767
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: get gators to move away from the oil spill. It's

768
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: oil spill clean up tactic. I believe I got you.

769
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: So the impacts of that and the little ones to

770
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: stay get stressed out? Was it impactful on them? Yeah,

771
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: they get pretty stressed out, it turns out, which was

772
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: obviously expected. But larger ones just leave and the results

773
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: to get it and stressed out or what like loss

774
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: of weight, slower grow Like, yeah, that's an interesting question.

775
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: I think that the results are getting stressed out. Are

776
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: you know a lot of physiological things. You know, you

777
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: can't allocate a lot of energy to your immune system

778
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: when you're stressed out, so you're more susceptible to the

779
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: environmental problems that are already in your face that alligators

780
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: can pretty well handle when they're not stressed out. When

781
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: you I would say that most Americans do not know

782
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 1: that there's a crocodile in America, American crocodile South Florida.

783
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: How many of them? Like, I mean, did they used

784
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: to be pretty thick? Did they used to be that

785
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: they were eating people and stuff all the time, like

786
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: African crocodiles in the Nile or whatever. Yeah, I don't.

787
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: I don't really think that they ever became a human

788
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: crocodile conflict issue in South Florida. I mean, I think

789
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: they are now because there's just so many people in

790
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: such little space. But there's a great book that recently

791
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: came out, maybe five or sixty years ago, that talks

792
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: about the Spanish when they settled South Florida. Yeah, they

793
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 1: would talk about it and talking about just how many

794
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: alligators there were, And specifically there's mentioned like on the

795
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: what would it be southwest side of Florida towards like

796
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: Santa Belle Island, how many American crocodiles there were, lay

797
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,919
Speaker 1: out the difference between an alligator and a crocodile. So, okay,

798
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: are you ready for this? This is a question that

799
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: people ask a lot, and it's not easy for a

800
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:58,439
Speaker 1: crocodile biologist to answer, because you guys like to everything. Yeah,

801
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: we're terrible. But the issue is that there's like sixteen

802
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: species of crocodile globally globally, and there's eight species of

803
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: ALLIGATORI including Cayman. So to say, what's the differ between

804
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: an alligator and a crocodile, It's a difficult situation. It's

805
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,399
Speaker 1: a difficult thing to answer between much variation. Let's do it.

806
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: Let's stick to the American alligator in the American crocodile. Okay,

807
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 1: and let's stick to from from a layman observer's perspective.

808
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: Gotcha like, meaning, you're hanging out on vacation in Florida

809
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: and you see a crocodile alligator esque creature and you

810
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 1: say to yourself, I wonder if that's a gator or

811
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: a croc Sure, what are you looking at? I'm looking

812
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: at a couple of things. The shape of the snout

813
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 1: is sort of the obvious answer. Alligators have a more

814
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: rounded snout and the American croc is going to have

815
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 1: a more narrow, longer pointed snout. But I'm also looking

816
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 1: at other things, like where is it an estuarine environment?

817
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: If so, I'm leaning towards an American crocodile is it

818
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: in the Everglades or Big Cypress National Preserve or somewhere

819
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: more where there is no salt intrusion that'll lead towards

820
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: an American alligator in that scenario. But they're pretty easy

821
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: to tell just by looking at them. So could they, like,

822
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: could the American crocodile just head out into open salt water? Yes,

823
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: there's one or two species of crocodile, the saltwater crocodile

824
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: hence the name, and the American croc that readily enter

825
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: marine environments and disperse from islands to other places throughout

826
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: the ocean. So it's feasible that you could be out

827
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 1: in the ocean ten miles offshore or something, and here

828
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 1: comes a crocodiles going by in Costriaca. That happens all

829
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: the time to surfers and other people out there, especially

830
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: on the Pacific coast. Just see them. Yeah, there's out there,

831
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 1: look like logs on the top of the water. Then

832
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 1: go under and then you get off your board. Are

833
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: they hunting? What are they doing out there? I think

834
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: for yeah, I mean they're they're eating out there, you know.

835
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people like to think of

836
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: crocodilians in general is eating large animals, right, sure, But

837
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 1: I think you know, what we know from a lot

838
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,760
Speaker 1: of really good research in South Louisiana and Southeast Texas

839
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: is that alligators eat a lot of blue crab. And

840
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: we know that American crocs are eating a ton of

841
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: shrimp when they can really so yeah, So I think like, like,

842
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: how in the hell are they doing that? They just

843
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: go out and open their mouths and swim and shrimp

844
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: goes near them. In fact, I saw a video. I

845
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 1: saw video last night on social media of a crocodile

846
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,919
Speaker 1: using its tail to flick shrimp up in the air

847
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: and they were landing in his mouth. It was awesome.

848
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: I'll try to find that video for you. Wow. The

849
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: crocs like in Costa Rica, the ones that get real big,

850
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: same exacts sees as the one in South Florida. Yes,

851
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: how come the ones in South Florida don't get big?

852
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:12,280
Speaker 1: They get pretty big, do they? Oh? Yeah? South Florida

853
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: is a is a tricky scenario in terms of American

854
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:19,320
Speaker 1: crocs because there's so much there's there's so little habitat

855
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: and so much attention paid because they're the only American croc.

856
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: As you say, in the commental US or in the

857
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: US in general. So the numbers are pretty low. So

858
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: they're sort of a high conservation concern, and there's really

859
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: been a really good effort to monitor populations in particular

860
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 1: successful nesting events, sort of in collaboration with land use

861
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: down there. Um, a lot of folks at like University

862
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: of Florida have spent long time studying those populations, like

863
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: how many are there, how many were there, and how

864
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 1: many are there? It's hard to say how many there were.

865
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 1: I want to make an educated guests and say more.

866
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: But I would say right now, I think a colleague

867
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: might correct me. But I would say a thousand American

868
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 1: crocs in South Florida would be a generally good ballpark.

869
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: And they can at times be intermixed with alligators, yeah,

870
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: especially way down in South Florida. Like if you go

871
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 1: down to like nine Mile Pond Flamingo way down there

872
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: in never Glades National Park, you'll be in water bodies

873
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 1: where you can see them both and they can be

874
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 1: fourteen feet crocs. Yeah, I mean alligators Cuba eating shrimp

875
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: eating crabs. I like to think of them eating wild fish.

876
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: I know that's the cool stuff. Oh yeah, man, like

877
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: doing crazy stuff. I mean, really, whatever swims near their mouth,

878
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: they're gonna try to eat. You know, when I was

879
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:46,800
Speaker 1: down there, I was with Clay Nor, my colleague, Clay Nucam,

880
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: and he was saying, Man, if you came to me

881
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: and said, um, you have to go get attacked by

882
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: a bear, he said, it'd actually be hard to get

883
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 1: attacked by a bear. There's actually a movie about this

884
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: where a guy got mauled by a grizzly. Then he

885
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: built a grizzlyproof suit. He couldn't get mauled again. He

886
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: tried his ass off to get mauled again in his

887
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: grizzlyproof suit, but could never get mauled again. So Clay's like,

888
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: you couldn't. If you said to go get mauled, you

889
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 1: probably are going to fail. But he said, I feel

890
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: like he doesn't know. He doesn't live in gator country.

891
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: He said, you know, I'm far from gator No. He said,

892
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: I feel like if you told me I had to

893
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: get mauled by a gator, I'd be able to figure

894
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: it out. Yeah, that's definitely the possibility. I mean, I

895
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: think that's a lot easier. So because yeah, we're because

896
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 1: we don't We don't know because we're not familiar with him.

897
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: But we thought, like, how would you not go to

898
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 1: that little pond where you know that some bitches in

899
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: there and just stick your foot in there and wiggle

900
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: it around. How's he not gonna want to bite it? Well,

901
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: he might be afraid, you know. I think the easiest

902
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,439
Speaker 1: thing to do is to make yourself look like you're

903
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: the size of a manageable prey item. That's what happens

904
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: when you see all these media reports of stuff getting eaten,

905
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: is that they're usually in the water part way, or

906
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 1: the size of a small dog or something like that.

907
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:12,879
Speaker 1: So I would go to the pond and I would

908
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 1: kneel at the water's edge. You're trying to get my waist,

909
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 1: kneel down. Look small at night. Then you'd have a

910
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: good chance and you can pull it off. Have you

911
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: ever been have you ever been part of like an

912
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:31,399
Speaker 1: investigation of an attack at all? Done anywhere without going

913
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: into too much detail. Yes, but we'll say, okay, let's

914
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 1: do the version where you do go into detail. I mean,

915
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 1: there's been a situation. Things off, Please my teacher. I'm

916
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: not joking, man, I don't know if she's still alive

917
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: or not. I don't I don't want to say her name.

918
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 1: I can tell you that she lived on the Mosquegan River.

919
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to say her name. She might have

920
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 1: to look at so she's passed away or not. My

921
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: fifth grade teacher was in the Peace Corps in Africa,

922
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: and I think she got reprimanded for this. She brought

923
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: us photographs into school and showed in school photographs of

924
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: the remains of her boyfriend who has recovered from the

925
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 1: belly of a crocodile and at whoam yikes? So you

926
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 1: now you go? Now I go. Now you tell us

927
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,280
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. Well, I just spilled the beans,

928
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: you know. I think when there's human crocodile conflict in

929
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 1: the population that involves a population of animals that a

930
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 1: particular researcher works in, they like to get as much

931
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:49,839
Speaker 1: information as they can on who or which animal they

932
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: think was responsible for the attacks understood, and I have

933
00:56:54,719 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: been inquired about who is involved. The problem is it's

934
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: an impossible thing to answer. Oh, someone want to know

935
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: which of the gators that you might be looking at,

936
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: and what could they tell about its behaviors and whatnot? Yeah,

937
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 1: do I have any ideas on if which alligator may

938
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: have done this bad. Yeah, it's like when they try

939
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: to go after the rogue shark or whatever. Right, yeah, right,

940
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 1: And I find that a little bit ridiculous. I mean,

941
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: if it's in a scenario where there's an alligator in

942
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: a communal pond in Florida and that's where somebody went missing,

943
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 1: well it was that alligator, that's an easy one. But

944
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: if it's somebody swimming off the coast of Florida and

945
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 1: somebody goes missing, then how are you supposed to know

946
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 1: which animals responsible? Right? Usually the management tactic is to

947
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: go out and see if there's a size animal that

948
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: could have been responsible. But in most scenarios, like way

949
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: out in the wild, it's that's an impossible thing too

950
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: to know. Every year, man, I'll get back to the

951
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: history stuff. And now we're on this subject. I want

952
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: to go with it. And and I know that you're

953
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: a good person asks because you're not gonna want to

954
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: sensationalize stuff because you're you're you're dealing in facts and

955
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 1: you you know gather you liked the animals, I do

956
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: very much, so you don't want to sensationalize this. But

957
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 1: I'll say this and the Okay, in the lower forty eight,

958
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: every year grizzly bears kill zero, one, two, or three.

959
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: People's never more than two or three. Sometimes there's none.

960
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: Usually there's one. Okay, where are we at with alligators?

961
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: Alligators and crocodiles in America? Like about the same? Right? Yeah, gosh,

962
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: I don't know in recent years of reported crocodile attack, Okay,

963
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: so that's not even a thing. I mean, maybe even

964
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 1: one every five years. God, as an educated guest, it's

965
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: like I would declare that not a thing. Not a thing.

966
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: I would also agree, Yeah, alligators, I think, I mean,

967
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: I would say, annually we hear about some new story

968
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: where there was an alligator attack, right, but we don't

969
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: hear about it fifty times a year. We hear about

970
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: it one, two, or three, So it remains almost in

971
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: the category of not a thing. I yeah, I think.

972
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: So when you're an alligator country, are there are there

973
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: things that you just don't do make yourself the size

974
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: of a prey item at the water's edge, and that

975
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 1: becomes like a widely known thing. No, otherwise it wouldn't happen.

976
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: I mean I think that, you know, let's say, we're

977
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 1: at these ponds, okay, and I had my kids with me,

978
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 1: which could totally happen. And when my kids getting near

979
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 1: a pond, what do they want to do? They want

980
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: to go throw shit in the pond. Yeah, okay, so

981
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: they're down. Yeah, they're down throwing shit in the pond,

982
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 1: falling into the pond. Um would you are you hysterical

983
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 1: to be like, don't do that? Or is that reasonable

984
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: to be like that? I would say you can throw

985
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: stuff in the pond, because that's the urge that everyone has,

986
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: But don't go down to the water if you're a kid, hmm,

987
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: I mean, just don't. Why risk it? And you're not

988
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: you don't rate yourself a paranoid person, No, I don't.

989
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say why. Or so getting bit by getting

990
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: killed by an alligator resides somewhere into like the not

991
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 1: a thing thing. But they're hell on dogs or that

992
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 1: is that like a thing? That is that overblown? And

993
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 1: you know, I mean they are hell on dogs. I

994
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: think that most of the time. Like there was a

995
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: couple videos recently where the dog got attacked and the

996
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: owner went to save the dog, and I think that

997
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: leads to a lot of this stuff um. When they're

998
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 1: walking their dog near a pond, those dogs have the

999
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: same inclination to go to the water's and then alligator says, ooh,

1000
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: a prey size organism. I'm gonna eat that, and the

1001
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 1: owner says, no, you're not. And then that leads to

1002
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: an issue between the alligator and the owner because he's

1003
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 1: in there trying to do because they're trying to save

1004
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 1: their dog, which I get as well. So my suggestion is,

1005
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 1: don't walk your dogs near the water's edge if you

1006
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: know that there's an alligator in that pond, or even

1007
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 1: if you don't, if you're if you're not sure, don't

1008
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: do it. Name for me all the junk you've heard

1009
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: of him eating, because it's a crazy list, right, Okay, Yeah,

1010
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 1: so we've we opened up thirteen big harvest the alligators

1011
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 1: stomachs um from a kind of a unique habits at

1012
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: a reservoir in Alabama on the Chattahoochee River, and we

1013
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: found the alligators thirteen fourteen feet damn big and they stunk. Man,

1014
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: But we found they stunk just the animal stunt. No,

1015
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 1: when you open that gut, I mean stuff's been there,

1016
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 1: a wild rotten it's the worst smell I've ever smelled,

1017
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: and I can smell it to this day if I

1018
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 1: try hard enough. It was all experience. We covered that. Yeah,

1019
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 1: I like the leading source on day this podcast is

1020
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: a leading source of information on DEA. Who yeah, I mean,

1021
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 1: we found so much stuff in those guts. Particularly, we

1022
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: found fish scales from stuff like alligator gar along noose gar,

1023
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 1: spotted gar. We found an entire h hog parts all

1024
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 1: in there, turtle scoots from alligator snappers, which is a

1025
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 1: hard thing to eat, really, snake vertebrae like the carrotonized

1026
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: plates on top of the show. Uh. And then the

1027
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: coolest thing we found was a fawn that looked like

1028
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 1: it was a sleep in the gut. It was about

1029
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: oh man, that big, and it was just sitting dog

1030
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: like it was a sleep, Like he was gonna get

1031
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 1: around to digesting it at some point exactly eventually that

1032
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: thing was going to pass through, but not that day.

1033
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 1: How long had they been in there, Oh, I don't know,

1034
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: it was it was incredibly intact, so I would say

1035
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: not long. But he also found a lot of man

1036
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 1: made stuff in there, a lot of shell casings in there,

1037
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: and bullets. I don't know. It's shiny stuff. Yeah, a

1038
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 1: lot of shiny stuff. And I still don't know if

1039
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 1: the alligator had eaten things that had been shot, or

1040
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:28,920
Speaker 1: if people were shooting at the alligator and it didn't die.

1041
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 1: Are the bullets deformed or the bullets in their original

1042
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: state like pre firing, original date, not mushroomed like on

1043
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: the on the beaver skull or anything. But if so

1044
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: you saw, we've found it all, you know, I mean,

1045
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 1: like he's just eating the eating stuff. Yeah, but then

1046
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: you found also just the projectile, the bullets not not

1047
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 1: mushroomed like a lot of them. I also could imagine

1048
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 1: that it's like, yeah, I wonder if that's picking up

1049
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: Like a lot of times, if they're trying to eat

1050
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: something off the bottom, they'll get a lot of other

1051
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:09,440
Speaker 1: stuff in their mouth. So they're probably about the one

1052
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 1: that had some Indian arrowheads in it, remember that eating

1053
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 1: so much garbage off the bottom. He actually inadvertently, assumably

1054
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 1: assuming he inadvertently picked up type that in Crinton type

1055
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 1: in alligator arrowhead was flint arrowhead. I forget where that was. Yeah,

1056
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: go on, well that's that's really awesome. Do you know,

1057
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: but the bullets, do you have pictures of the bullets. No,

1058
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: I mean this was this was twenty twenty eleven, twenty twelve.

1059
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 1: Got it around then Mississippi, Mississippi read that this might

1060
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 1: tickle your fancy. The title is out. This is CNN.

1061
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 1: Just so happens. Alligators eat lots of things. These prehistoric

1062
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 1: artifacts were an unusual snack. So this was a Mississippi

1063
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 1: gator in well, the guy who found found it was

1064
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 1: based in Yazoo City, Mississippi. But he found yeah, part

1065
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:08,920
Speaker 1: of uh like the base part of an arrowhead, and

1066
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 1: then some other kind of like uh like an adiladdle

1067
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: dark point. Yeah, they're like a like a counterbalance to

1068
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 1: an adiladdle. I don't think if I remember. So when

1069
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: when he picks that junk up, what's he doing? He

1070
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: just inadvertently getting it while he grabs other stuff. Yeah,

1071
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,960
Speaker 1: i'd imagine. So, like, have you ever seen an alligator

1072
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 1: attempt to eat something off the bottom. They're horrible at it.

1073
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 1: They just sort of turn their head and kind of

1074
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:36,920
Speaker 1: rub on the bottom and anything that's in their mouth

1075
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 1: they'll lift their head up and might go down. Is

1076
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 1: it just like like a shovel basically? I mean it's yeah,

1077
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 1: like a like you were to take two shovels try

1078
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 1: to use them as a tool to lift something up

1079
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 1: off the table, you know, and they're and you're really

1080
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 1: bad at it. So so's the alligator. They just siphon

1081
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 1: all that junk down there. It all goes down and

1082
01:05:58,040 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 1: they get what they want to eat whatever else is

1083
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 1: near that thing's going down. Lay out for me, how

1084
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 1: this is the thing I hear about um people like

1085
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 1: talking about the death roll and then them and then

1086
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:16,400
Speaker 1: them burying junk and scavenging junk, and if they catch

1087
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:19,520
Speaker 1: a person, they'll stash a person under a log or something.

1088
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: Or a deer walking through all that, like so here

1089
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 1: here he is, he's in his he's laying there, and

1090
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: a deer comes out to get a drink. Okay, laying there.

1091
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 1: He's seeing the deer at night at the water's edge.

1092
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 1: He's under the water. He or she's under the water,

1093
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 1: and approaches slowly under the water until he's near enough

1094
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 1: to attack the deer. Happens in a mill a second.

1095
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:41,919
Speaker 1: If he can get ahold of the animal, he'll bring

1096
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 1: it back into the water and grab it by whatever

1097
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: he can grab and then walk back into the water

1098
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: with it. And usually the prey dies by drowning. Okay,

1099
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: But then what happens is this is a thing that

1100
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 1: some colleagues he might have published recently about. It's called

1101
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 1: prey cashing. Okay. So they'll go like, find a wallow

1102
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:08,600
Speaker 1: or a log, or it's coming, it's coming. Oh it's yeah,

1103
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:13,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's coming. It's dead. But how do they

1104
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 1: get a leg off of a big deer? The death

1105
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: roll and a lot of times I'm going there, I'm

1106
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 1: not leading your way. Yeah, so they'll take that animal

1107
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 1: and stick it under the water for a couple of

1108
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: days a week, and then they'll reapproach it and roll off.

1109
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 1: I don't think that there's data to suggest that a

1110
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:36,200
Speaker 1: single animal will guard a prey cash. Well, how does

1111
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 1: how does it not? Just like if you stick a

1112
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 1: deer under the water, how does every gator in town

1113
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 1: not come and eat it? Yeah, I mean I think

1114
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 1: they do. I think a big alligator might have some

1115
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 1: say and who comes and eats it? So like a

1116
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 1: large male crocodilian usually has a home territory and if

1117
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 1: a smaller male comes into that territory, they either get

1118
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 1: eaten or gotta got it. So if they put it

1119
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: in a spot that's there's I doubt there's much of

1120
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 1: a struggles. Granted, if another alligator sees that deer being

1121
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 1: pulled into the water, it's going to make an attempt

1122
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,760
Speaker 1: to try to eat something, So either at that time

1123
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 1: or after cashing has occurred, they'll bite onto what they

1124
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:25,760
Speaker 1: think is a swallowable size part and roll it off

1125
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 1: to the death, roll underwater, roll it off, or that

1126
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,639
Speaker 1: alligator trying to come steal a meal might latch onto

1127
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 1: something and roll and get a bite. So him him,

1128
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:41,480
Speaker 1: that's his fork and knife, Yeah, his teeth, his roll. Yeah.

1129
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:45,920
Speaker 1: What about sense of smell? Like you met, you talked

1130
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 1: about they see this deer at the water's edge, But

1131
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:53,800
Speaker 1: like dudes who go out and like are catching crocks

1132
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 1: or whatever, the commercial market meat or whatever, they're often

1133
01:08:57,320 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 1: like hanging a big chunk of chicken. Like, are they

1134
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 1: finding that I'm assuming by smell? Right? Yeah, you know,

1135
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 1: we don't know a lot about the chemosensory ability of crocodilians.

1136
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 1: We know that it's probably pretty complex. Like we know

1137
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 1: that they probably use a lot of uh pheromones to communicate,

1138
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 1: but gosh, it's a challenge trying to isolate that stuff.

1139
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:29,040
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody's really looked into that too much.

1140
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:31,879
Speaker 1: But they don't have a mechanism by which you can

1141
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:36,760
Speaker 1: They can't smell underwater cracked. Yeah, I mean I think so.

1142
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 1: I mean, when you hang that piece of chicken and

1143
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 1: it's rotting in the Louisiana sun and some of it

1144
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:47,599
Speaker 1: starts to drip off into the water, they know it's there. Okay,

1145
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:53,679
Speaker 1: but yeah, well he does because he's taking he's taking

1146
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: water in. But when you're underwater, you're not gonna smell underwater.

1147
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:01,759
Speaker 1: You're not you're not making anything in, you're not taking

1148
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,640
Speaker 1: part of all that's like all that liquid is passing

1149
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:08,720
Speaker 1: through their I don't know. That's why I'm that's why,

1150
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 1: that's why we have a guest on the show. Yeah,

1151
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 1: and this is I don't know if that's true. Like

1152
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 1: when you knew, when you know, I'm telling you this,

1153
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: when you go underwater, Okay, like a beaver. Let's say

1154
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: you're trapping beaver and you put out beaver cast, right,

1155
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 1: he knows about it. When he's at the surface, he's

1156
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,880
Speaker 1: gonna smell it on the air. When he's underwater, he's

1157
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 1: locked down, he's not he's not inhaling and picking up particles.

1158
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:39,639
Speaker 1: A shark's underwater moving all that water through. And however

1159
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 1: they're doing it, they're tasting all the particulate matter in

1160
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 1: the water. You're not, buddy, Yeah, but humans have a

1161
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 1: horrible sense of smell, So how can you make the comparison.

1162
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: I could put you underwater, Okay, I could put you

1163
01:10:54,800 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: underwater with some skunk smell, right, but I'm not. And

1164
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: can they smell underwater? I'll say this, when they're hunting,

1165
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 1: they use their site first, I'd imagine certain in certain scenarios.

1166
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 1: But the other thing we know about all crockatilians is

1167
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 1: that they have these really cool pits on their face

1168
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,960
Speaker 1: that sense change in water pressure. So when they can't

1169
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 1: see underwater, they can feel really well what's going on

1170
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 1: around them and snap it stuff. Oh really, So I

1171
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 1: think that those are the top two sort of modes

1172
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:39,120
Speaker 1: of finding prey. But I know that there's a chemosensory

1173
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: ability there that is poorly understood or not understood well

1174
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 1: by me, which is likely possibility underwater, even underwater underwater body,

1175
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:56,439
Speaker 1: I figured duding triviat Now man is gator questions? I

1176
01:11:56,760 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 1: be all over that now I'm gonna go back to

1177
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:13,320
Speaker 1: the beginning a little bit. Why you always hear the

1178
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 1: alligators were one so Endangered Species Act was seventy three,

1179
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three. Oh no, I got another question, Okay,

1180
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:22,479
Speaker 1: before I get into this. Oh, this is the thing

1181
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 1: I was wondering about when I was in Florida. And

1182
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:25,639
Speaker 1: this might not be your I'm sure it's not your

1183
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:29,439
Speaker 1: ara of expertise, but maybe you've had some um run

1184
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:33,759
Speaker 1: ins on this one. I learned it when we say

1185
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 1: um the Seminal, Okay, that that was a sort of

1186
01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:44,480
Speaker 1: I always thought that the Seminal. I thought the Seminal

1187
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:51,479
Speaker 1: were a like a sort of like always existing, like

1188
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 1: a like a pre contact, pre existing tribe of Native

1189
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 1: Americans that lived in Florida. I later learned that the

1190
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:05,680
Speaker 1: Seminal was sort of like a later congregation of a

1191
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 1: later congregation of Native Americans and even others escaped slaves

1192
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:15,799
Speaker 1: and things like formed this sort of like unit, the Seminal.

1193
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:18,680
Speaker 1: And then the Seminal wars was against these tribes, but

1194
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 1: they were that they were assembled out of other tribes.

1195
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:23,800
Speaker 1: So had you asked me a month ago, I would

1196
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 1: have asked the question this way how did the seminal?

1197
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:31,800
Speaker 1: Did they use these did they use alligator resources in

1198
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:34,280
Speaker 1: their in their life ways for food and material products?

1199
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 1: But now I know that you wouldn't say that, you'd

1200
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:39,120
Speaker 1: say groups that I don't know their names. Is like,

1201
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:41,200
Speaker 1: have you ever run into have you ever had any

1202
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 1: exposure to this question, like historically, like five hundred years ago,

1203
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:49,759
Speaker 1: six hundred years ago, were humans using this resource? I've

1204
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:52,280
Speaker 1: never been asked that question before, but I would venture

1205
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:58,600
Speaker 1: to say yes, because I know that in like artifact

1206
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:01,000
Speaker 1: site where they finally lot of stuff, they find a

1207
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:05,799
Speaker 1: lot of alligator scoots got in some of those sites. Um,

1208
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:10,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure they were used for food. Yeah.

1209
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 1: When I was talking with this he's like, well, why

1210
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:13,800
Speaker 1: in the hell not, I'm like, I don't. I mean,

1211
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:17,640
Speaker 1: it seems obvious, but I don't know. Yeah, why not? Um?

1212
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:19,920
Speaker 1: I mean I think that there's in South Florida in particular,

1213
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 1: there's a there's a lot of sort of heritage based,

1214
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:30,280
Speaker 1: sort of cultural based, um, you know, efforts to alligator

1215
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 1: wrestling as a sport that I believe, if I'm not mistaken,

1216
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 1: has pre European contact ties. Someone told me that, Ye,

1217
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:45,559
Speaker 1: So that would venture to guess you know at that

1218
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:48,719
Speaker 1: time then, yeah, they were probably utilized as a resource.

1219
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 1: I realized, I'm asking you something way outside of your wheelhouse.

1220
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 1: But it's okay, I appreciate the input. I'll comment on anything.

1221
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:59,880
Speaker 1: Now here's my question. Okay, they're everywhere, dude, Like now, okay,

1222
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe when we were turkey hunting right in

1223
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 1: our little Turkey area, there's like this. They were laying

1224
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:10,759
Speaker 1: on top of each other. You're going down this canal

1225
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 1: and it's dry right now, So I understand they're concentrated

1226
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:15,600
Speaker 1: where you're going down to canal and you get to

1227
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 1: where you don't eat, Like at first, because we're from

1228
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 1: the north, they're like, oh my god, like you know,

1229
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 1: and the guy we're with that's from Florida, he don't,

1230
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:26,439
Speaker 1: he can't even he don't even look like, oh my god,

1231
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 1: oh my god, are you seeing this? You know? Yeah,

1232
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 1: Richard just rolling his eyes. He's like, holy shit, man,

1233
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:39,599
Speaker 1: another one. They're all over, you know. I'm not saying

1234
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:41,639
Speaker 1: there's too many of them, just saying there is a lot.

1235
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 1: But it blows my mind that, like in seventy three,

1236
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 1: they were they were kind of like one of the

1237
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:53,240
Speaker 1: early endangerous species act things. How did they how did

1238
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: they get reduced that bad? You know what I mean

1239
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:57,679
Speaker 1: when you look at like how abundant they are. Yeah,

1240
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:02,240
Speaker 1: so that's a sort of classic story of unregulated harvest

1241
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:05,640
Speaker 1: for meat and hide. And they were just harvest I

1242
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:10,040
Speaker 1: mean throughout the forties, nineteen fifties into the sixties, there

1243
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:13,599
Speaker 1: was really no legislation that said you can't harvest as

1244
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 1: many as you can find, and you know, they nearly

1245
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:20,880
Speaker 1: went extinct. It was it was that from like mechanically,

1246
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:26,559
Speaker 1: it wasn't it wasn't from pollution now, woll No, that

1247
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 1: was not the major culprit at bad. It was like mechanically,

1248
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 1: one by one removing killing them all. Yeah. I mean,

1249
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:38,720
Speaker 1: of course pollution and habitat instruction have a hand in

1250
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 1: any decline in his species numbers. Yeah, but this was

1251
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:47,599
Speaker 1: directly tied to unrelated harvest. Yeah, but I mean there

1252
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:49,280
Speaker 1: is like you get my distinction, right, like if you

1253
01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:52,280
Speaker 1: look at something, you know, the cormorant, when the cormaron

1254
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:56,559
Speaker 1: was imperiled, the cormon was imperiled because of of like biotoxins, right,

1255
01:16:56,600 --> 01:17:01,040
Speaker 1: And certainly we lost certain or almost lost some avian

1256
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 1: predators from what was it was it DDT from from DUS.

1257
01:17:05,439 --> 01:17:09,000
Speaker 1: So it was like, you know, environmental factors drove them

1258
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 1: to your extinction. Compare that to sort of, um, you know,

1259
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:17,519
Speaker 1: the American buffalo. You'd be like buy and large. They

1260
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 1: were mechanically removed, I mean like one, two, three, like

1261
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:22,360
Speaker 1: kill kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill to the point

1262
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 1: where you killed them all. And that's why I couldn't understand,

1263
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:28,320
Speaker 1: like so with gators, like the gator hunters literally just

1264
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:33,280
Speaker 1: like got them all. Yep, completely unregulated. That's the story, right,

1265
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:36,680
Speaker 1: I mean there's a fair bit of commercial harvest of

1266
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:40,479
Speaker 1: wild gators. Now, well that's what saved them, ironically, is

1267
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:45,719
Speaker 1: the regulation harvest actually saved them. And more than that,

1268
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:49,840
Speaker 1: the utility of the American alligator as a natural resource

1269
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:54,720
Speaker 1: became monetized in such a way that was reliant on

1270
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:58,800
Speaker 1: successful wild populations. How do they how do they bake

1271
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,280
Speaker 1: that up? So they were there were sort of two

1272
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 1: teams of people, one in southwest Louisiana and one in

1273
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:06,479
Speaker 1: South Carolina that were sort of working towards the same

1274
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:09,080
Speaker 1: end goal at the same time. And I'm not sure

1275
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:14,679
Speaker 1: if they collaborated or not, but essentially how it happened

1276
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 1: was that was that ranchers and harvesters, especially ranchers for

1277
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:26,160
Speaker 1: eggs for hides, had to harvest eggs from wild populations

1278
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 1: near where they were located or otherwise, and they had

1279
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:31,840
Speaker 1: to return a bunch. But if you're monetizing, if you're

1280
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:34,880
Speaker 1: making money off of the existence of eggs being out there,

1281
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:37,479
Speaker 1: there's got to be eggs out there the next year.

1282
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:41,480
Speaker 1: So really the amount of money that went into alligators

1283
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:45,880
Speaker 1: as a natural resource saved the American alligator because now

1284
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,600
Speaker 1: all these folks need there to be a bunch of

1285
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:52,800
Speaker 1: alligators out there every year. Like if you based it

1286
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:56,839
Speaker 1: on pounds of meat or number of hides like total

1287
01:18:56,960 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 1: in the US, what would be the percentage coming from

1288
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 1: wild gators versus like farm If you had to guess,

1289
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:13,479
Speaker 1: I've seen these stats, I I would venture that most

1290
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:19,240
Speaker 1: of the hide industry comes from wild populations. But they're

1291
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 1: required to put back a ton of alligators every year

1292
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:25,879
Speaker 1: that they're not allowed to harvest. They have size limits

1293
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:28,120
Speaker 1: and things, well they have they have I think in

1294
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 1: most states they have proportioned limits. So whatever you collect

1295
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:33,160
Speaker 1: in eggs, you got to put half of that back

1296
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:35,920
Speaker 1: or a quarter of that back or third of that back.

1297
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:39,560
Speaker 1: But I would imagine that the meat industry recreationally is

1298
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:45,040
Speaker 1: all from wild harvest. But I'm not sure about you know,

1299
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:49,760
Speaker 1: large scale meat operations. I've never seen a farm that

1300
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 1: whose sole product is alligator meat, but I'm sure they

1301
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:56,759
Speaker 1: exist because they traffic and hides. Two. Yeah, I mean hides.

1302
01:19:57,040 --> 01:19:59,760
Speaker 1: Hides is where the money is. That's the big money,

1303
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:04,320
Speaker 1: and that's for boots sold. One did I did I

1304
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:06,400
Speaker 1: miss it? How did they get the eggs back? And

1305
01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:09,479
Speaker 1: how does that come into play? So I think most

1306
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:14,799
Speaker 1: states have it where you harvest eggs, incubate eggs, hatch

1307
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:17,760
Speaker 1: them out, and then a large number of what you

1308
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:21,280
Speaker 1: hatch out has to go back to where you harvested

1309
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:24,719
Speaker 1: those eggs. Why not just leave half the eggs because

1310
01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 1: there's the probably a higher likelihood that it's gonna be

1311
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:30,720
Speaker 1: a successful It's probably a higher likelihood there'll be a

1312
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:33,640
Speaker 1: successful reproduction if you hatch them yourself. You look at

1313
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:36,320
Speaker 1: when they're doing stuff, when you're doing stuff with salmon,

1314
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 1: like you could take a salmon. You take a salmon

1315
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:42,000
Speaker 1: out of the wild, take its eggs, and then you

1316
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:46,880
Speaker 1: bring them um, you rear them. You know you're you're

1317
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:51,040
Speaker 1: close to like one hundred percent of those eggs putting

1318
01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:53,760
Speaker 1: off a fingerling. Yeah, I mean I think in the

1319
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 1: while it'd be like maybe like zero or one percent

1320
01:20:57,040 --> 01:21:00,120
Speaker 1: would make it that far. Yeah, they do leave a

1321
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 1: lot of nests out there. I mean, it's impossible to

1322
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 1: harvest all these nests. But there's some great data out

1323
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:11,800
Speaker 1: of central Florida in the nineties that suggests that the

1324
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:15,840
Speaker 1: number of eggs that are laid in a specific area,

1325
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 1: only about a third or less of those eggs reach

1326
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:25,120
Speaker 1: one year old after hatching. So survivorship is super low anyway,

1327
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:28,479
Speaker 1: So to leave them out there would be kind of

1328
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:33,800
Speaker 1: a futile task. But it's a great story. How do

1329
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:37,400
Speaker 1: they go coovery of the alligator? How talk about like

1330
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 1: like walk me through how an alligator? Like what is

1331
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:44,840
Speaker 1: its reproductive cycle? So yeah, American alligator typically lays its

1332
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:49,040
Speaker 1: eggs June July, and you can tell. So if you

1333
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:53,920
Speaker 1: live in Texas, egg laying anecdotally starts in Florida and

1334
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:57,919
Speaker 1: spreads westward. So if you have egg laying in Florida,

1335
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:00,400
Speaker 1: you can expect it to be upcoming. An all Obama,

1336
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:02,880
Speaker 1: you can expect it to be upcoming in Louisiana and

1337
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:06,599
Speaker 1: finally over there in East Texas. What time of year

1338
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:09,160
Speaker 1: does she does she will she make love with a

1339
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 1: lot of males or are they somewhat monogamous? Yeah, No,

1340
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:16,120
Speaker 1: alligators have sperm storage and multiple paternity. We know that

1341
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:19,880
Speaker 1: from a lot of work actually in Louisiana. So yeah,

1342
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:22,599
Speaker 1: there'll be more than one So she'll breed with multiple

1343
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:26,519
Speaker 1: males and then so those eggs could bear multiple fathers,

1344
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:30,120
Speaker 1: it could be represented by multiple fathers. Yeah, some data

1345
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:33,840
Speaker 1: from Cayman populations suggests that even though females are breeding

1346
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 1: with multiple males, there's really only one or two males

1347
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:41,920
Speaker 1: that sire pretty much all the eggs. But it's possible

1348
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:46,760
Speaker 1: and so that that courtship occurs, you know in springtime,

1349
01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:50,560
Speaker 1: you know in South Florida, mark April, and then a

1350
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 1: little bit later as you move more north and more west,

1351
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:57,560
Speaker 1: and then eggs are oviposited. You know. Nests are constructed

1352
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 1: essentially overnight and laid in mid June, late June, early July,

1353
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 1: laying out and they're laying out on the surface and

1354
01:23:05,200 --> 01:23:07,559
Speaker 1: like a little nest. The mounds. Yeah, so they'll build

1355
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:10,680
Speaker 1: mounds of like degraded vegetation. Well, they'll it won't be

1356
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:14,000
Speaker 1: it won't be rotting vegetation at the time, but they'll

1357
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:20,160
Speaker 1: harvest you know, spartana grass, whatever sort of vegetations available

1358
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:25,479
Speaker 1: on the on the edge of the water, and they'll

1359
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 1: build a mound of it and then lay their eggs

1360
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,360
Speaker 1: within that mound and then seal the mound up. So

1361
01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 1: it's how many eggs, it's a pretty compact little little thing.

1362
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 1: How many eggs. The lowest I've ever seen is nineteen

1363
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 1: and the most eggs I've ever seen in nest is

1364
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:42,639
Speaker 1: fifty two. But I think you would say they would

1365
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:46,800
Speaker 1: probably average thirty five eggs or so. Damn. So there's

1366
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:49,000
Speaker 1: a lot of disparity in the number of eggs that

1367
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 1: a mother will overposit. Man, you can see it. It

1368
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:55,120
Speaker 1: would be impactful. If you took those and protected them

1369
01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:58,400
Speaker 1: and incubated them, you get a lot of returns, a

1370
01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:01,840
Speaker 1: lot of gators back out there. So then continuing the timeline,

1371
01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 1: what do we got we're in early July and by

1372
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:13,200
Speaker 1: that nest if yes, so alligators typically wow, typically they're

1373
01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:15,920
Speaker 1: they don't. But I would say about a third of

1374
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:19,960
Speaker 1: alligators we'll hang out by that nest. Really early to

1375
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 1: start um and then they'll sort of ease off the

1376
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:26,960
Speaker 1: nest during the middle of development and then return to

1377
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:30,160
Speaker 1: the nest to assist with hatching. Well they do. Yeah,

1378
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 1: so they're they're really good moms in there and they

1379
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:35,000
Speaker 1: come and they are they reliable to come back to

1380
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:39,840
Speaker 1: their own nests like another year. No, no no, no, I'm

1381
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:43,519
Speaker 1: saying it wouldn't be like like she's going to return

1382
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:46,200
Speaker 1: to the nest she laid right, She's not gonna just

1383
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:49,320
Speaker 1: randomly just go to any old nest like she knows.

1384
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:52,080
Speaker 1: They have fidelity to their own nest. They do, although

1385
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:54,080
Speaker 1: there's some really cool data out of South Carolina that

1386
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:57,679
Speaker 1: suggests that there's potentially some kind of altruism and nest defense,

1387
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:04,760
Speaker 1: so like they found footage of multiple mothers defending the

1388
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:07,080
Speaker 1: same nest and they were sort of unsure why at

1389
01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 1: that time. But normally the assumption is that, yeah, mom

1390
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:13,800
Speaker 1: will hang out by her nest in a wallow and

1391
01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:17,200
Speaker 1: defend it or not from a predator. And there's a

1392
01:25:17,240 --> 01:25:20,000
Speaker 1: degree to which they defend, Like if you pull up

1393
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 1: in a boat, some moms will just run away and

1394
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:26,240
Speaker 1: hang out one hundred yards away and say what are

1395
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:29,040
Speaker 1: you doing in my nest. Other moms will attempt to

1396
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:33,360
Speaker 1: roll the boat over, so you get it from time

1397
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:39,280
Speaker 1: to time, but alligators are probably the most frequently. They

1398
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:43,840
Speaker 1: will attend and defend the nest as frequently as any

1399
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:48,240
Speaker 1: other species of crocodilia. Got it, so she'll hang out

1400
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:50,160
Speaker 1: lay it, and then how long is incubator or how

1401
01:25:50,160 --> 01:25:54,080
Speaker 1: long do they lay there? That's incubation, rightation alligators on

1402
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:57,280
Speaker 1: average about sixty five days. And is it true that

1403
01:25:57,320 --> 01:26:01,679
Speaker 1: the temperature determines the sex of hackling? Yes, it is true,

1404
01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:04,080
Speaker 1: so that nest will throw all males or all females

1405
01:26:04,120 --> 01:26:08,599
Speaker 1: depending It could depending on the temperature. But usually there's

1406
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:14,200
Speaker 1: a well, usually there's a thermal regime within the nest

1407
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 1: cavity that allows for potentially both sexes to be produced.

1408
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:24,920
Speaker 1: But it could be manipulated where thirty eggs are all male. Yeah,

1409
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:26,600
Speaker 1: if you put it in a lab and put it

1410
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:29,040
Speaker 1: at like whatever, you set the temperature for, like seventy

1411
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 1: eight degrees yeah, or whatever the hell it is may be.

1412
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:34,720
Speaker 1: Yea like eighty one and a half to eighty three

1413
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 1: fair knights is the temperature regime for one sex. Yeah,

1414
01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:42,120
Speaker 1: so it's they exhibit FMF sex termination it's called type

1415
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:46,160
Speaker 1: two sex termination. So at low incubation temperatures you get females,

1416
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:49,479
Speaker 1: and that the sort of narrow range you get males,

1417
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:53,840
Speaker 1: and when you get above that second pivotal temp you

1418
01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:56,840
Speaker 1: get females again. But there's some argument that that upper

1419
01:26:57,080 --> 01:27:01,840
Speaker 1: pivotal temper has never reached more more coming on that

1420
01:27:02,200 --> 01:27:04,840
Speaker 1: next time. I'm here, what happens working on that right now?

1421
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:08,599
Speaker 1: Somebody's not me. What happens if that nest gets rated

1422
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:11,559
Speaker 1: by a raccoon or whatever, all the eggs get destroyed.

1423
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:15,000
Speaker 1: Does she just start over or she can't start over?

1424
01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 1: She may wait till next year. There are a few

1425
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:21,040
Speaker 1: species of crocodilian that have multiple clutches in the year,

1426
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:26,480
Speaker 1: but those that's very rare. Okay, what's the primary raccoons?

1427
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:31,360
Speaker 1: By far, raccoons and hogs that old bandit hogs like

1428
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:37,200
Speaker 1: aigator eggs. I just have a question for You're saying

1429
01:27:37,200 --> 01:27:41,720
Speaker 1: within one nest, based on the temperature regime, you can

1430
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:45,439
Speaker 1: have males and females. Is there any data on like

1431
01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:50,800
Speaker 1: how eggs are dispersed within the nest in terms of

1432
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:54,000
Speaker 1: like an area under more vegetation, which would be colder

1433
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:57,680
Speaker 1: or warmer or like if there's any kind of yeah, yeah,

1434
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:02,360
Speaker 1: So those questions we thought would be really interesting to

1435
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:07,360
Speaker 1: ask in whole nesting animals like the American crocodile. What

1436
01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:09,919
Speaker 1: we find an American alligator nest is that they're essentially

1437
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 1: within a compost pile of rotting vegetation, and the temperature

1438
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:19,519
Speaker 1: seems to stay relatively hot and relatively stable in there.

1439
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:22,519
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there are nests that that bridge that

1440
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:26,679
Speaker 1: the lower pivotal temp which means males and females will

1441
01:28:26,720 --> 01:28:29,800
Speaker 1: thermally be produced. But we had the same idea as

1442
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 1: you in Costa Rica. So the American crocodiles dig holes

1443
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 1: in the sand and deposit their eggs in there, like

1444
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:39,400
Speaker 1: similar to a turtle exactly like a turtle, yeah, just

1445
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:41,000
Speaker 1: a lot more eggs and a lot bag. So they'll

1446
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:43,479
Speaker 1: pull up on a sand bar and dig with their

1447
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:47,240
Speaker 1: back feet and no deposit and then covered up back up.

1448
01:28:47,840 --> 01:28:51,640
Speaker 1: But we thought, yeah, if it's if it's under some shade,

1449
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:55,640
Speaker 1: under a tree, then that may play a role in

1450
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:59,760
Speaker 1: the thermal regime of that nest. If it's really deep

1451
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:02,400
Speaker 1: in the sand exactly, then that will also probably play

1452
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,559
Speaker 1: a role. But we actually found that neither of those

1453
01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:11,960
Speaker 1: things matter at all. They're completely uncorrelated to the thermal

1454
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:16,120
Speaker 1: regimes of these nests. But what happens to be correlated

1455
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:21,360
Speaker 1: is the egg size. So metabolic heating is playing more

1456
01:29:21,400 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 1: of a role in determining the thermal regime of these

1457
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:29,120
Speaker 1: nests than how much shade or how deep the nest is.

1458
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:33,840
Speaker 1: That's a sample size of you know, fourteen or fifteen

1459
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:38,519
Speaker 1: or so nests, which was hard enough to get. Meaning

1460
01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:45,280
Speaker 1: the same way that the human body generates heat metaball heating, yep, metabolism.

1461
01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:49,479
Speaker 1: Heat is given off x organic reactions. So the larger

1462
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 1: warmth is generating warmth in the nest. Yeah, So we

1463
01:29:53,439 --> 01:29:55,720
Speaker 1: put in these little I couldn't be that you put

1464
01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:58,479
Speaker 1: your hand on and it felt warm. It's just like slight,

1465
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:02,360
Speaker 1: right U two point five degrees c. So we put

1466
01:30:02,439 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 1: an eye button in the center of the nest cavity,

1467
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:07,360
Speaker 1: and then we put an eye button at the exact

1468
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 1: same depth of that eye button a meter away from

1469
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:14,760
Speaker 1: the nest. And we found that the average difference in

1470
01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:20,280
Speaker 1: temperatures between those two little eye button loggers was two

1471
01:30:20,280 --> 01:30:24,040
Speaker 1: and a half degree celsius, which is a lot hm. Right,

1472
01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:27,160
Speaker 1: what is now, kid? There somebody google that it's got

1473
01:30:27,160 --> 01:30:29,599
Speaker 1: to be like five or six degrees fahrenheit or more

1474
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 1: so when those little baby alligators are ready to how

1475
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 1: many days gestation or not gestation? Alligators incubation about sixty

1476
01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:42,559
Speaker 1: five on average. So she lays them, Yeah, and she

1477
01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:46,960
Speaker 1: might scraaddle, she could, she might yep, but then she

1478
01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:51,120
Speaker 1: might come back around hatch time. Well, she usually stays

1479
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:55,719
Speaker 1: there for a week or two after ovipositing, defends the nest,

1480
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:59,200
Speaker 1: is hanging around. You see them at the nest. And

1481
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:01,519
Speaker 1: then we find that the frequency of attendance goes down

1482
01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:05,599
Speaker 1: towards the middle of incubation, likely because mom's got other

1483
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:07,519
Speaker 1: things to do. She has probably hasn't eaten in a

1484
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:11,360
Speaker 1: couple of weeks, she needs to seek some other thermal

1485
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:14,880
Speaker 1: refugia besides sitting on the bank of a swamp, you know,

1486
01:31:16,439 --> 01:31:20,519
Speaker 1: and then returns a week or two before hatching and

1487
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:22,880
Speaker 1: hangs out with them. And does she need to dig

1488
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:25,960
Speaker 1: them out or they dig themselves out like turtles. Yeah,

1489
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:32,920
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's a lot of interesting stories that

1490
01:31:33,080 --> 01:31:38,120
Speaker 1: alligator moms will open the nest for them and remove

1491
01:31:38,240 --> 01:31:42,800
Speaker 1: them and sort of carry them over to where they

1492
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:45,320
Speaker 1: need to be in the water or whatever. But most

1493
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:47,320
Speaker 1: of the nest that I approach that have hatched, that

1494
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:50,479
Speaker 1: doesn't happen. The eggs just hatch, and the hatch things

1495
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 1: just sort of move around and wriggle themselves to the top.

1496
01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:59,920
Speaker 1: How long are they when they come out? Six inches seven?

1497
01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:04,080
Speaker 1: But they do make a lot of sounds. So alligator

1498
01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:06,639
Speaker 1: hatchlings in the egg when they're ready to hatch will

1499
01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:10,880
Speaker 1: kind of make this little chirp noise like dude, ye

1500
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:14,000
Speaker 1: or you hear the eggs doing that. Yeah, And that

1501
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:19,479
Speaker 1: signals hatching to occur theoretically in the other eggs around

1502
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:23,840
Speaker 1: that eggs, and it also theoretically we have but it

1503
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:26,400
Speaker 1: also helps mom know that it's time to come over.

1504
01:32:27,080 --> 01:32:30,960
Speaker 1: Really yeah, I mean that's the That was the nice story.

1505
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:34,200
Speaker 1: I was talking to a guy that hunt they're hunting

1506
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:38,240
Speaker 1: gators down in Florida, and they use that sound like

1507
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:41,400
Speaker 1: if they're looking for a big gator, don't make that

1508
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:43,439
Speaker 1: sound and get that thing to like show itself. I

1509
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:45,680
Speaker 1: do it all the time. Yeah, Yeah, it works, It

1510
01:32:45,720 --> 01:32:49,640
Speaker 1: works pretty well. Ye be honest, is next calling U

1511
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:53,760
Speaker 1: and they're there? Yeah, do a gator way way of

1512
01:32:54,040 --> 01:32:59,040
Speaker 1: baby gator. You said two and a half degrees celsius. Yeah, Chris,

1513
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:02,280
Speaker 1: that's four and a half degree fair knight really feel

1514
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:09,360
Speaker 1: it though? Yeah it's hotter. Wait what like the difference?

1515
01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:12,200
Speaker 1: So like, so if something is two and ashcree celsius

1516
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:18,240
Speaker 1: more than it would be fourie fare kneit um. When

1517
01:33:18,280 --> 01:33:19,680
Speaker 1: she comes back to hang out of them, what is

1518
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:23,360
Speaker 1: she actually doing? I mean, do the little baby gators

1519
01:33:23,400 --> 01:33:25,479
Speaker 1: come out, let's say twenty of them come crawling out

1520
01:33:25,479 --> 01:33:28,920
Speaker 1: of the mud. Yeah, they don't imprint on her like

1521
01:33:29,240 --> 01:33:32,240
Speaker 1: I mean, does she is she able to sort of

1522
01:33:32,439 --> 01:33:35,880
Speaker 1: manipulate the group and orchestrate and be like I'll show

1523
01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:38,360
Speaker 1: y'all how to catch shrimp? Like do you know what

1524
01:33:38,360 --> 01:33:40,000
Speaker 1: I mean? Like, what is she really doing? Or she

1525
01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:43,760
Speaker 1: just keeping predators away from the general vicinity? Yeah? I

1526
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:45,920
Speaker 1: think most of her role at that time is trying

1527
01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:50,400
Speaker 1: to not let herrings and raccoons and large stuff eat them. Okay,

1528
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:54,639
Speaker 1: she's a presence, she's exactly she's there to say, don't

1529
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:57,360
Speaker 1: come eat my hatchlings kind of thing. But there's I mean,

1530
01:33:57,400 --> 01:34:01,000
Speaker 1: there are some some crocodilians that are, you know, really

1531
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:05,519
Speaker 1: incredible from a parental aspect, like the male garial in

1532
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:08,360
Speaker 1: India will essentially let all the hatchlings ride on its

1533
01:34:08,400 --> 01:34:13,800
Speaker 1: back for quite a long time after after hatching there there,

1534
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:16,599
Speaker 1: I would say that of all the vertebrates that I've

1535
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:21,280
Speaker 1: ever learned about, my favorite parents are crocodilians. I'm also biased,

1536
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:24,559
Speaker 1: but take that for what. Is there a fair bit

1537
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:28,759
Speaker 1: of cannibalism that goes on. Oh yeah, at larger sizes.

1538
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:32,520
Speaker 1: I mean I remember going out collecting samples in Louisiana

1539
01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:35,559
Speaker 1: and seeing an eight foot alligator with a four foot

1540
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:37,639
Speaker 1: alligator hanging out of its mouth, But not so much

1541
01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:40,120
Speaker 1: the little babies. Yeah. I mean, if you're a male

1542
01:34:40,160 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 1: alligator and you hear that sound, you're gonna come eat

1543
01:34:42,479 --> 01:34:45,679
Speaker 1: those babies. Oh that's why they're liking that sound. Yeah,

1544
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:47,160
Speaker 1: I mean, that's why it's easy to use to get

1545
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:51,040
Speaker 1: an alligator to show itself, because I mean, I wants

1546
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:53,479
Speaker 1: to eat it, or a female that's outside of the

1547
01:34:53,479 --> 01:34:56,920
Speaker 1: reproductive time probably will want a snack. Then there's no

1548
01:34:57,040 --> 01:35:03,720
Speaker 1: paternal The males have no as far as we know,

1549
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:07,160
Speaker 1: no comprehension of what females and what nest they sired.

1550
01:35:07,160 --> 01:35:10,639
Speaker 1: I mean, they're just they're out of the picture in alligators. Yeah, that. Yeah,

1551
01:35:10,720 --> 01:35:14,120
Speaker 1: that's my understanding. There's no paternal investment really in the clutch,

1552
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:18,080
Speaker 1: and they'll they'll mild those little babies down, they'll eat

1553
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:24,960
Speaker 1: them up. Yeah, huh yeah, And that's probably I mean,

1554
01:35:25,000 --> 01:35:28,160
Speaker 1: I would say that's true for most crocodilian species, where

1555
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:35,519
Speaker 1: the paternal aspect is effectively irrelevant after fertilization. When they're

1556
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:38,360
Speaker 1: real little like that, six inches long. Yeah, what are

1557
01:35:38,360 --> 01:35:41,679
Speaker 1: they trying to feed down? Bugs and stuff? Little bugs?

1558
01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:43,880
Speaker 1: I mean for a long time, they probably don't even eat.

1559
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:46,679
Speaker 1: You know, they come out with a yolk sac that's

1560
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:50,120
Speaker 1: hanging behind him, that's not fully shut yet, So in

1561
01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:52,240
Speaker 1: the a they've got this yolk sac on their belly,

1562
01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:55,559
Speaker 1: and when they hatch out, there's essentially a I mean

1563
01:35:55,600 --> 01:35:58,840
Speaker 1: you can see it still there. And then eventually the

1564
01:35:58,920 --> 01:36:01,479
Speaker 1: yolk will get absorbed in the skin will heal around it.

1565
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:04,960
Speaker 1: So they're sustaining on that for a good while, I

1566
01:36:04,960 --> 01:36:07,120
Speaker 1: don't really think, I don't know how long, but a

1567
01:36:07,120 --> 01:36:11,880
Speaker 1: little while before they start getting there swimming legs under

1568
01:36:11,920 --> 01:36:14,839
Speaker 1: them and can go eat bugs and little fish and

1569
01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:17,439
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But they hang by the nest for

1570
01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:20,080
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks. You know, they'll hang arout by it,

1571
01:36:20,120 --> 01:36:23,800
Speaker 1: They'll hang around. Yeah, what are you guys, you or

1572
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:29,240
Speaker 1: your colleagues, what are your theories on in South Florida?

1573
01:36:29,479 --> 01:36:35,720
Speaker 1: What are your theories on what's happening with the dynamic

1574
01:36:35,880 --> 01:36:41,000
Speaker 1: between the pythons and gators? Like you hear these crazy

1575
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:43,080
Speaker 1: cases where like a python grabs the gator and it

1576
01:36:43,160 --> 01:36:45,200
Speaker 1: swallows it in the gator fights his way back out

1577
01:36:45,240 --> 01:36:48,759
Speaker 1: of its gut. Yeah, I mean, what is there anything

1578
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:52,080
Speaker 1: substantial going on here between? Is it like a new

1579
01:36:52,320 --> 01:36:56,240
Speaker 1: great food source? Is it negligible impact? Yeah? I mean

1580
01:36:56,280 --> 01:36:57,960
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot better people to ask than

1581
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:02,000
Speaker 1: me who work on crocodilians and Florida about that particular topic.

1582
01:37:02,120 --> 01:37:05,519
Speaker 1: But for me, not knowing much you know, in that area,

1583
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:09,240
Speaker 1: I would say that it's kind of a negligible thing.

1584
01:37:09,960 --> 01:37:13,479
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you get these interesting stories of large

1585
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:17,520
Speaker 1: pythons that have killed in our eating a smaller alligator,

1586
01:37:17,880 --> 01:37:21,240
Speaker 1: and you see potentially alligators with a snake in their mouth.

1587
01:37:21,320 --> 01:37:23,880
Speaker 1: But I think you just sort of introduced one and

1588
01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:28,120
Speaker 1: more organism to the assemblage there that that gets eaten

1589
01:37:28,280 --> 01:37:31,160
Speaker 1: or is eating, you know, is eating or eats can

1590
01:37:31,240 --> 01:37:34,759
Speaker 1: chomp on each other. But I don't. I don't see

1591
01:37:34,840 --> 01:37:41,400
Speaker 1: that as a necessarily a prevalent, mainstay, viable resource for

1592
01:37:41,560 --> 01:37:45,960
Speaker 1: either one of those species. Speaking of pythons, we had

1593
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:48,040
Speaker 1: a guy he didn't work on this project, but his

1594
01:37:48,200 --> 01:37:51,280
Speaker 1: colleagues did. Is they were trying to figure out how

1595
01:37:51,280 --> 01:37:57,760
Speaker 1: far pythons can spread. Yeah, and I feel like it

1596
01:37:57,920 --> 01:38:02,360
Speaker 1: involved making these little enclosure like barying pythons or something

1597
01:38:02,400 --> 01:38:06,439
Speaker 1: in the for the winter and in the spring see

1598
01:38:06,479 --> 01:38:08,800
Speaker 1: that they were dead or alive. Anyways, they drew a

1599
01:38:08,840 --> 01:38:12,639
Speaker 1: sort of hypothetical line, I mean how far north thing? Sorry, Yeah,

1600
01:38:12,680 --> 01:38:14,320
Speaker 1: they're trying to be like, okay, in the future house,

1601
01:38:14,439 --> 01:38:18,240
Speaker 1: like at what point will what would be the climate restriction? Sure,

1602
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:21,040
Speaker 1: and they drew a rough line maybe went through something

1603
01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:24,080
Speaker 1: like I can't remember if it reached South Caroline or not,

1604
01:38:24,280 --> 01:38:28,240
Speaker 1: or feasibly they could like reliably survive the winter. Yeah,

1605
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:35,680
Speaker 1: what prevents gate? Like why why can't we have alligators

1606
01:38:35,680 --> 01:38:40,639
Speaker 1: in the Great Lakes? It's too cold? That's it. Yeah,

1607
01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:42,880
Speaker 1: I mean that's obvious, but that that that is what

1608
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:45,519
Speaker 1: it is, because it would do the cold would do

1609
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:49,240
Speaker 1: what the cold would metabolically shut them down to a

1610
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:53,840
Speaker 1: state in which the when the temperatures were adequate in

1611
01:38:53,880 --> 01:38:57,320
Speaker 1: the summer, they would have they wouldn't be able to

1612
01:38:57,360 --> 01:39:01,920
Speaker 1: harvest enough resources to survive the extended period that's below

1613
01:39:02,040 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 1: their critical thermal mini So there's a realizing niche and

1614
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:13,800
Speaker 1: a fundamental niche. Realizing niches. What aspects of your environment

1615
01:39:14,439 --> 01:39:19,320
Speaker 1: do you commonly see or are exposed to? A fundamental niches,

1616
01:39:20,200 --> 01:39:25,880
Speaker 1: what aspects of this undimensional hyper volume of environment will

1617
01:39:26,439 --> 01:39:32,799
Speaker 1: kill you or not? And the thermal regime of somewhere

1618
01:39:32,840 --> 01:39:36,040
Speaker 1: that far north is outside of the fundamental niche of

1619
01:39:36,040 --> 01:39:39,800
Speaker 1: an American alligator. So it's a length of exposure thing. Yea.

1620
01:39:40,400 --> 01:39:43,679
Speaker 1: You see them with their nose up in North Carolina. Yeah,

1621
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:45,760
Speaker 1: and the ice and that kind of stuff. Yeah, but

1622
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:49,920
Speaker 1: they can't sustain that for I mean six months of

1623
01:39:49,960 --> 01:39:53,000
Speaker 1: the year. It feels like up here, you know, it'd

1624
01:39:53,040 --> 01:39:55,000
Speaker 1: be cool though. I wish they were in the Great Lakes. Yeah.

1625
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:59,400
Speaker 1: If you what's crazy? If you think, um, you imagine

1626
01:39:59,400 --> 01:40:03,960
Speaker 1: a grizz on the north slope, you know, grizzly in

1627
01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:05,960
Speaker 1: a lot of places they're black bears, and a lot

1628
01:40:06,000 --> 01:40:08,560
Speaker 1: of parts of their range they're spending more months underground.

1629
01:40:08,600 --> 01:40:11,479
Speaker 1: They are up, yeah, up and about they're spending more

1630
01:40:11,520 --> 01:40:15,879
Speaker 1: months not not foraging. Yeah, spending more months not foraging

1631
01:40:15,880 --> 01:40:19,080
Speaker 1: than foraging. Yeah, but that would become bad news for

1632
01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:21,559
Speaker 1: a gator. Yeah, I mean, aside from just the temperature

1633
01:40:21,560 --> 01:40:23,880
Speaker 1: being so called that it kills them. Oh, gotcha know?

1634
01:40:24,920 --> 01:40:27,280
Speaker 1: And then uh, well how long can they make it

1635
01:40:27,360 --> 01:40:35,120
Speaker 1: between meals? Yeah, I mean yeah, I think that that

1636
01:40:35,520 --> 01:40:39,719
Speaker 1: crocodilians can survive in theory months without a meal. From

1637
01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:42,960
Speaker 1: a sort of low metabolic standpoint, right, we talked about

1638
01:40:43,000 --> 01:40:48,599
Speaker 1: the animals estivating um in Costa Rica. That's two three

1639
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:55,760
Speaker 1: months without literally no chance to eat, right, Um, So metabolically,

1640
01:40:55,800 --> 01:40:59,280
Speaker 1: since they're sort of low profile on that, they can

1641
01:40:59,360 --> 01:41:05,200
Speaker 1: go a long long time without eating. But when they do,

1642
01:41:05,600 --> 01:41:12,080
Speaker 1: they utilize it relatively efficiently. From a cellular perspective, I

1643
01:41:12,120 --> 01:41:18,839
Speaker 1: had a guy that guides on Okachobe, Captain Bob Stafford

1644
01:41:18,880 --> 01:41:23,080
Speaker 1: guides gator hunts on Okechobee, and he says, when he's

1645
01:41:23,080 --> 01:41:28,400
Speaker 1: gotten a client, okay, who wants a trophy gator. He says,

1646
01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:33,719
Speaker 1: a trophy gator is ten feet that in his mind

1647
01:41:33,840 --> 01:41:35,960
Speaker 1: is like trophy gator land. Okay, So when he has

1648
01:41:35,960 --> 01:41:37,720
Speaker 1: like a client that really wants a big gator. They're

1649
01:41:37,720 --> 01:41:45,679
Speaker 1: looking for a ten plus gator. How old is that? Yeah,

1650
01:41:45,720 --> 01:41:50,120
Speaker 1: that's a hard question because growth rates are directly correlated

1651
01:41:50,160 --> 01:41:53,439
Speaker 1: to the thermal environment and resource acquisition for that animal.

1652
01:41:53,560 --> 01:41:55,280
Speaker 1: So I'll give you an example. I know of a

1653
01:41:56,120 --> 01:42:00,360
Speaker 1: seventy five year old wild alligator in Okifinoki Swamp. He's

1654
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:04,040
Speaker 1: alive right now. Well was in two thousand and seven.

1655
01:42:04,400 --> 01:42:07,240
Speaker 1: It was seventy five at the time, and that animals

1656
01:42:07,280 --> 01:42:11,800
Speaker 1: about twelve feet long. Seventy five years old, and he's

1657
01:42:11,800 --> 01:42:13,960
Speaker 1: twelve feet long, so I don't maybe a little bigger,

1658
01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:16,920
Speaker 1: but I don't know that you can draw, you know,

1659
01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:22,880
Speaker 1: a clear straight line between age and length. But I

1660
01:42:22,880 --> 01:42:25,040
Speaker 1: would imagine you could have one this twelve feet and

1661
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:27,479
Speaker 1: sixty years old, right, or you could have one this

1662
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:30,360
Speaker 1: fourteen feet and seventy five years old, right, A male, yeah,

1663
01:42:30,360 --> 01:42:32,920
Speaker 1: at that size. But I'll tell you. In Costa Rica,

1664
01:42:33,040 --> 01:42:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, we would mark hatchlings in hopes of finding

1665
01:42:36,080 --> 01:42:39,120
Speaker 1: them again and the next year, so we mark a

1666
01:42:39,160 --> 01:42:42,000
Speaker 1: hatchling that's also about you know, six or seven inches long.

1667
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:45,679
Speaker 1: We found one the next year, twenty two kilometers away

1668
01:42:45,680 --> 01:42:47,960
Speaker 1: from where we marked it that was over a meter long.

1669
01:42:49,920 --> 01:42:52,439
Speaker 1: So what the heck is going on there? That thing

1670
01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:56,040
Speaker 1: grew incredibly fast. He went from six inches to roughly

1671
01:42:56,720 --> 01:42:59,439
Speaker 1: mid thirty three and a half feet yeah, to three

1672
01:42:59,479 --> 01:43:03,000
Speaker 1: and a half year really yeah, which I was blown

1673
01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:05,280
Speaker 1: away by. We found that someone more like someone moved

1674
01:43:05,280 --> 01:43:09,919
Speaker 1: your tag. Well, it's impossible someone's a scoot that's removed

1675
01:43:09,960 --> 01:43:13,960
Speaker 1: from the back. So they all get an individual ID number.

1676
01:43:14,479 --> 01:43:17,040
Speaker 1: But that makes me say, you know, I've always thought that,

1677
01:43:17,080 --> 01:43:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, in general of crocodilian will grow up like

1678
01:43:20,320 --> 01:43:23,200
Speaker 1: a foot a year if you're an alligator, which makes

1679
01:43:23,200 --> 01:43:27,599
Speaker 1: a nine foot long animal, you know, not nine years

1680
01:43:27,640 --> 01:43:31,160
Speaker 1: older or a little older. But that really changed my

1681
01:43:31,200 --> 01:43:34,120
Speaker 1: perspective on stuff like when you see a three meter

1682
01:43:34,240 --> 01:43:38,000
Speaker 1: animal in Costa Rica, do we really think that that's

1683
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:41,800
Speaker 1: only three or four years old? Potentially? Like there needs

1684
01:43:41,800 --> 01:43:44,599
Speaker 1: to be a lot more investigation done on on that.

1685
01:43:45,080 --> 01:43:48,560
Speaker 1: What's the oldest you've heard about for them? For the

1686
01:43:48,600 --> 01:43:52,160
Speaker 1: American alliger, seventy five from Okay Finochi. But that so

1687
01:43:52,280 --> 01:43:54,760
Speaker 1: that as far as to end in the wild, that's

1688
01:43:54,760 --> 01:43:56,880
Speaker 1: the that's the top end that I've heard of. I

1689
01:43:56,880 --> 01:43:59,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised if they live eighty years, you know,

1690
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:03,439
Speaker 1: for for a statistical outlier, but I would say forty

1691
01:44:03,479 --> 01:44:05,840
Speaker 1: five to sixty years. If you make it past that

1692
01:44:05,920 --> 01:44:09,200
Speaker 1: an initial small stage, you got a good shot. Older

1693
01:44:09,240 --> 01:44:15,800
Speaker 1: for crocs, sir h. Hard to say. Hard to say,

1694
01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:21,519
Speaker 1: especially if we're talking about that potentially super fast young

1695
01:44:21,880 --> 01:44:25,360
Speaker 1: rate of growth in Costa Rica. How how old are

1696
01:44:25,400 --> 01:44:28,599
Speaker 1: those monsters out there? Are they only fifteen or twenty?

1697
01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:30,559
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't, I don't know. I don't. I

1698
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:34,040
Speaker 1: don't think we know. I bet Australia has a really

1699
01:44:34,080 --> 01:44:37,200
Speaker 1: good data on that for saltwater crocodiles because they and

1700
01:44:37,200 --> 01:44:40,280
Speaker 1: when they get to the end of their lifespan, just

1701
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:44,040
Speaker 1: like us, they just they age out. They go. Yeah. Week,

1702
01:44:44,280 --> 01:44:48,240
Speaker 1: I found a dead croc sitting on the bank. I

1703
01:44:48,360 --> 01:44:51,360
Speaker 1: was actually on a on a tour in Costa Rica,

1704
01:44:51,600 --> 01:44:54,400
Speaker 1: helping with a tour and there was a crocodile on

1705
01:44:54,479 --> 01:44:56,439
Speaker 1: the bank and I said, let's go over and see

1706
01:44:56,439 --> 01:44:59,400
Speaker 1: that thing. And we approached it and it was just dead.

1707
01:45:00,520 --> 01:45:04,960
Speaker 1: No idea why, just got old and died there. He said,

1708
01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:09,280
Speaker 1: Boys on that bank and die a peaceful place. Yeah,

1709
01:45:08,360 --> 01:45:11,920
Speaker 1: I mean, never seen anything like that before. Yeah, And

1710
01:45:11,920 --> 01:45:14,559
Speaker 1: this thing was probably three and a half meters long,

1711
01:45:15,439 --> 01:45:20,840
Speaker 1: So like twelve thirteen. So what is what is? What

1712
01:45:20,920 --> 01:45:23,360
Speaker 1: do you call an adult alligator? How do you define

1713
01:45:23,400 --> 01:45:26,639
Speaker 1: an adult alligator? Like I was saying an adult wild turkey? Yeah,

1714
01:45:27,120 --> 01:45:31,240
Speaker 1: let's call it tom it's two full Yeah, yeah, we

1715
01:45:31,400 --> 01:45:33,920
Speaker 1: use that term. But at what age is he at?

1716
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:37,360
Speaker 1: What age would you say like, that's a mature adult? Yeah?

1717
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:42,160
Speaker 1: So when when they I would use the word adult

1718
01:45:42,240 --> 01:45:46,080
Speaker 1: when they're obviously of reproductive status. And give me a

1719
01:45:46,160 --> 01:45:50,240
Speaker 1: rough ballpart for a male seven eight feet for a

1720
01:45:50,240 --> 01:45:55,960
Speaker 1: female six six feet plus? Okay, once he gets to

1721
01:45:56,040 --> 01:46:00,160
Speaker 1: that size, is what's gonna kill him? Is that to

1722
01:46:00,200 --> 01:46:05,000
Speaker 1: be a human or another alligator? Okay, bigger alligator but yeah,

1723
01:46:05,240 --> 01:46:10,680
Speaker 1: humans or ecotoxins or another bigger bull alligator. What's the

1724
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:16,720
Speaker 1: uh male female like max size difference? Yeah, males get

1725
01:46:16,920 --> 01:46:20,120
Speaker 1: get larger than female and that's like across the board

1726
01:46:20,160 --> 01:46:25,040
Speaker 1: with crocodilians or yeah pretty yeah, um, but I mean

1727
01:46:25,240 --> 01:46:35,080
Speaker 1: sexual dimorphism, good phrase, nice job. Yeah. I mean an

1728
01:46:35,160 --> 01:46:38,879
Speaker 1: adult male can you know pretty easily reach ten twelve

1729
01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:43,760
Speaker 1: fourteen feet? Um? I think the biggest female I've ever

1730
01:46:43,880 --> 01:46:46,320
Speaker 1: called caught was, you know, nine and a half feet

1731
01:46:46,360 --> 01:46:49,320
Speaker 1: and that's a that's a big female, got it. So

1732
01:46:49,320 --> 01:46:51,120
Speaker 1: when people are like one in the case, these guys

1733
01:46:51,200 --> 01:46:54,960
Speaker 1: hunting trophy gators are hunting. Those are males. Yeah, they're

1734
01:46:55,040 --> 01:46:58,120
Speaker 1: hunting big bull males, usually open water. Is there any

1735
01:46:58,400 --> 01:47:02,320
Speaker 1: visual like if you were looking at justica pile of crocodiles,

1736
01:47:02,360 --> 01:47:05,280
Speaker 1: could you, let's say they're all roughly the same size,

1737
01:47:05,360 --> 01:47:07,599
Speaker 1: could you pick out the males and the females anyway

1738
01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:11,200
Speaker 1: to do like a physical attribute, you know that becomes

1739
01:47:11,320 --> 01:47:14,559
Speaker 1: pronounced at a certain year. I had a student that

1740
01:47:14,720 --> 01:47:18,840
Speaker 1: was interested in that question and utilized a tool called

1741
01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:23,240
Speaker 1: geometric morphometrics, which is a shape quantifics a lot of morphs. Yeah,

1742
01:47:23,280 --> 01:47:27,439
Speaker 1: geometric morphometrics. It's a shape quantification tool where he took

1743
01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:30,479
Speaker 1: photos of heads of males and photos of heads of

1744
01:47:30,920 --> 01:47:34,120
Speaker 1: females and sort of allowed the software to see if

1745
01:47:34,120 --> 01:47:39,960
Speaker 1: there were any subtle differences. And there are. I don't

1746
01:47:39,960 --> 01:47:42,679
Speaker 1: remember what they were because we haven't published those data yet.

1747
01:47:43,160 --> 01:47:49,680
Speaker 1: But I think that I have a little instinct to

1748
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:51,800
Speaker 1: say that's a male and that's a female, but to

1749
01:47:51,800 --> 01:47:57,439
Speaker 1: be able to describe, like they can't explain what they're

1750
01:47:57,439 --> 01:47:59,680
Speaker 1: doing when they do it. Yeah, And I think a

1751
01:47:59,680 --> 01:48:02,720
Speaker 1: lot of valigator Bible just might have that. You know,

1752
01:48:02,760 --> 01:48:05,439
Speaker 1: when you look at that and say that's a male,

1753
01:48:05,560 --> 01:48:09,160
Speaker 1: but there's no clear thing for the average person be like,

1754
01:48:09,240 --> 01:48:11,759
Speaker 1: that's a no, And I don't even think it's clear

1755
01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:15,200
Speaker 1: to us. Like when I'm doing it, I say, seventy

1756
01:48:15,200 --> 01:48:17,840
Speaker 1: percent in my mind, that's a male. Yeah, but am

1757
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:22,000
Speaker 1: I am? I right? That's like that blackbear hunters. Well,

1758
01:48:22,040 --> 01:48:25,040
Speaker 1: there a range of black bears where it's like they're

1759
01:48:25,080 --> 01:48:27,120
Speaker 1: of a size that you're like, I don't know, could

1760
01:48:27,200 --> 01:48:30,400
Speaker 1: be you know, but now and then, well, Yanni was

1761
01:48:30,439 --> 01:48:32,120
Speaker 1: telling me the other day, when you see a mountain

1762
01:48:32,160 --> 01:48:36,240
Speaker 1: lion with the big forehead wrinkles, explain that the once

1763
01:48:36,320 --> 01:48:39,240
Speaker 1: that look real angry. Yeah, they got the fat rolls

1764
01:48:39,280 --> 01:48:43,439
Speaker 1: on their forehead. It's actually a vertical crease. It's a

1765
01:48:43,560 --> 01:48:45,880
Speaker 1: vertical crease. Okay, I've ever talking about that. It looks

1766
01:48:46,120 --> 01:48:48,040
Speaker 1: like darker than the rest of the day. When you

1767
01:48:48,040 --> 01:48:50,280
Speaker 1: see that vertical crease, you're looking at a big male

1768
01:48:51,439 --> 01:49:03,280
Speaker 1: or or so they say, Yeah, do you you ever

1769
01:49:03,280 --> 01:49:05,280
Speaker 1: eat alligators? Or you or you don't? Are they not

1770
01:49:05,320 --> 01:49:08,240
Speaker 1: advertising to you? Oh they're great? Yeah? How many how

1771
01:49:08,280 --> 01:49:12,759
Speaker 1: many times a year to eat alligator? Well? Maybe three?

1772
01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:17,320
Speaker 1: I make an alligator sauce pecant of the old old

1773
01:49:17,360 --> 01:49:22,360
Speaker 1: Louisiana recipe that is just dynamite. Okay. It's a tomato based,

1774
01:49:23,479 --> 01:49:28,280
Speaker 1: rue based sort of soupy stew. And it's hot, it's spicy,

1775
01:49:29,240 --> 01:49:32,080
Speaker 1: and uh put my alligator meat in there. Oh man,

1776
01:49:32,360 --> 01:49:34,120
Speaker 1: So I know you're fisherman. Do you have you ever

1777
01:49:34,200 --> 01:49:36,720
Speaker 1: hunted gators or just get meats somewhere else? I just

1778
01:49:36,760 --> 01:49:41,519
Speaker 1: buy it from the sustainably harvested meat that's sold. You

1779
01:49:41,600 --> 01:49:44,200
Speaker 1: never put in for gator permits or nothing. No. Let's

1780
01:49:44,200 --> 01:49:45,960
Speaker 1: say I handed you a gate or tag right now,

1781
01:49:46,800 --> 01:49:49,560
Speaker 1: would you be like sweet? Would you be like no,

1782
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:51,559
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna go out in the wild and harvest

1783
01:49:51,600 --> 01:49:55,040
Speaker 1: an alligator myself. I catch them all the time for

1784
01:49:55,040 --> 01:49:56,720
Speaker 1: for the stuff that I do for my job, But

1785
01:49:57,120 --> 01:49:59,240
Speaker 1: just not. You don't. You don't have that. You don't

1786
01:49:59,280 --> 01:50:02,320
Speaker 1: have that. It's just not when you guys are catching

1787
01:50:02,360 --> 01:50:05,880
Speaker 1: them to do whatever research on an individual animal you

1788
01:50:05,880 --> 01:50:07,800
Speaker 1: want to do, how are you getting them? Are you

1789
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:10,880
Speaker 1: putting hook baited hooks out or no, that'll hurt the thing.

1790
01:50:11,600 --> 01:50:14,479
Speaker 1: As a physiological ecologist, I need that thing to last

1791
01:50:14,520 --> 01:50:16,920
Speaker 1: a lot longer than after it deals with me, right,

1792
01:50:17,520 --> 01:50:21,280
Speaker 1: so we can catch them by hand. If they're small,

1793
01:50:21,479 --> 01:50:24,680
Speaker 1: we can catch them by a snare on a on

1794
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:28,400
Speaker 1: a pole. So it literally takes like like a snare

1795
01:50:28,640 --> 01:50:32,800
Speaker 1: that makes like a lasso with a tree lock mechanism

1796
01:50:33,160 --> 01:50:37,360
Speaker 1: on it, and I electrical tape it to a cane

1797
01:50:37,400 --> 01:50:41,120
Speaker 1: pole and I'm on in a boat on the front

1798
01:50:41,120 --> 01:50:43,680
Speaker 1: of the boat, and I try to put that that

1799
01:50:43,800 --> 01:50:47,840
Speaker 1: open open part of the snare over its neck and

1800
01:50:47,920 --> 01:50:50,240
Speaker 1: yanket shut. And then as soon as I get it

1801
01:50:50,240 --> 01:50:51,840
Speaker 1: on the boat, I opened the snare get it off

1802
01:50:51,840 --> 01:50:54,480
Speaker 1: of them. So you're not setting snares for him, No,

1803
01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:56,519
Speaker 1: And when I was just the floor, we were talking

1804
01:50:56,560 --> 01:50:59,320
Speaker 1: about you know there's a conna bears, there's a body

1805
01:50:59,360 --> 01:51:02,800
Speaker 1: gripping trap, okay, one ten, two, twenty three thirty and

1806
01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:05,600
Speaker 1: then they've started to fill it in like one sixty. Anyways,

1807
01:51:06,160 --> 01:51:08,920
Speaker 1: mean seth or Tom about get some a eighties because

1808
01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:11,200
Speaker 1: we found some pinch points for gators that have been

1809
01:51:11,280 --> 01:51:15,360
Speaker 1: dynamite man, well yeah, eighty connor bear setting at little

1810
01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:17,640
Speaker 1: where these channels would neck down due would you'd be

1811
01:51:17,680 --> 01:51:22,400
Speaker 1: getting like, do you guys ever capture like real big ones?

1812
01:51:22,439 --> 01:51:24,559
Speaker 1: And how would do so? How are you doing that?

1813
01:51:25,040 --> 01:51:29,479
Speaker 1: Same way. Yeah, we'd use a snare, so you guys

1814
01:51:29,479 --> 01:51:31,679
Speaker 1: don't set like some kind of trap that that thing would.

1815
01:51:31,720 --> 01:51:34,720
Speaker 1: I've set traps for alligators before, but that's because I

1816
01:51:34,840 --> 01:51:40,160
Speaker 1: need specific individuals, like the mom that laid that nest,

1817
01:51:40,760 --> 01:51:44,160
Speaker 1: So I set the trap at a nest site. We're

1818
01:51:44,240 --> 01:51:48,320
Speaker 1: kind of I want only those that individual gator. It's

1819
01:51:48,400 --> 01:51:51,320
Speaker 1: essentially a two by four eight foot by three foot

1820
01:51:51,360 --> 01:51:56,200
Speaker 1: box that I wrap in chain link and has like

1821
01:51:56,240 --> 01:51:59,439
Speaker 1: a a piece of fence in the front where they

1822
01:51:59,479 --> 01:52:01,439
Speaker 1: go in the back and get a bait, not off

1823
01:52:01,439 --> 01:52:03,160
Speaker 1: of home, but just off off a thing and it

1824
01:52:03,240 --> 01:52:05,960
Speaker 1: pulls a pin in the door and then I get

1825
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:07,599
Speaker 1: him the next morning and work them up and get

1826
01:52:07,640 --> 01:52:10,400
Speaker 1: them out. That's gotta be a hefty contraption. I've built

1827
01:52:10,400 --> 01:52:12,479
Speaker 1: probably four of them. Most of them burn up in

1828
01:52:12,560 --> 01:52:16,320
Speaker 1: marsh fires, to be honest. But I during a matter

1829
01:52:16,360 --> 01:52:21,160
Speaker 1: during my matters, I had really good successful Like how

1830
01:52:21,200 --> 01:52:22,960
Speaker 1: long is It's about eight feet long and you set

1831
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:25,640
Speaker 1: it on the ground, setting on the ground so he's

1832
01:52:25,680 --> 01:52:27,559
Speaker 1: coming out of the water to come right well, like

1833
01:52:27,600 --> 01:52:29,920
Speaker 1: the front lip of it is at the water's end,

1834
01:52:29,960 --> 01:52:34,439
Speaker 1: and what are you baiting with? Chicken? Really like that yeah,

1835
01:52:34,640 --> 01:52:38,360
Speaker 1: people do that. I've had up on them. Yes, Oh

1836
01:52:38,439 --> 01:52:41,800
Speaker 1: my god, they oh my god. Yeah, they're tearing everything apart.

1837
01:52:41,880 --> 01:52:43,680
Speaker 1: They don't. But then you have to somehow get in

1838
01:52:43,680 --> 01:52:46,280
Speaker 1: the trap with it to work it out, and that's

1839
01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:49,240
Speaker 1: always problematic. What's the biggest gator you can rassle? I

1840
01:52:49,240 --> 01:52:52,320
Speaker 1: asked this to a guy the other day. This guy's

1841
01:52:52,400 --> 01:52:56,160
Speaker 1: name begins with alligator. Let's do many people down there?

1842
01:52:56,200 --> 01:52:58,560
Speaker 1: I realized, Yeah, I said, what's the biggest gator you

1843
01:52:58,560 --> 01:53:00,920
Speaker 1: can rassle? He said, you could rasp the ten foot gator.

1844
01:53:00,960 --> 01:53:03,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, how could that be true? The biggest alligator

1845
01:53:03,040 --> 01:53:07,760
Speaker 1: I've ever caught was ten ten fix. So really, yeah,

1846
01:53:07,880 --> 01:53:11,160
Speaker 1: by yourself, you're saying, but it was some else more

1847
01:53:11,280 --> 01:53:13,759
Speaker 1: than you do though. Yeah, I mean, it's all just rules.

1848
01:53:13,800 --> 01:53:15,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I know a guy who wrestles alligators better

1849
01:53:15,680 --> 01:53:19,719
Speaker 1: than anybody, and he's one hundred and forty pounds soaking wet. Okay,

1850
01:53:19,760 --> 01:53:21,519
Speaker 1: want me through it. Here he is, there's a gator

1851
01:53:22,240 --> 01:53:25,200
Speaker 1: ten fo there's a gator in the water. Let's say

1852
01:53:25,200 --> 01:53:26,479
Speaker 1: he's in the water and I'm on a boat with

1853
01:53:26,520 --> 01:53:28,800
Speaker 1: a headlamp and I see that in the water. How

1854
01:53:28,880 --> 01:53:33,720
Speaker 1: deeps the water six feet really eight feet though they

1855
01:53:33,720 --> 01:53:35,680
Speaker 1: had to be on a bank. But no, But now

1856
01:53:35,680 --> 01:53:41,800
Speaker 1: it depends visibility in the water. Is there visibility gin clear? Oh,

1857
01:53:41,880 --> 01:53:45,040
Speaker 1: well then it's cake. I win every time, like a

1858
01:53:45,120 --> 01:53:48,840
Speaker 1: chocolate shake. Then a gator wins almost every time on

1859
01:53:48,960 --> 01:53:52,320
Speaker 1: the top, and get the snare on like pretty good visibility, Yeah,

1860
01:53:52,439 --> 01:53:58,000
Speaker 1: so clear, but pretty chocolate six feet of water, ten

1861
01:53:58,040 --> 01:54:01,240
Speaker 1: foot gator. So usually we'll like approach it pretty slow,

1862
01:54:01,280 --> 01:54:03,400
Speaker 1: shut the motor off in a mud boat or something

1863
01:54:03,439 --> 01:54:07,120
Speaker 1: like that, and try to get close enough with angling

1864
01:54:07,160 --> 01:54:10,120
Speaker 1: the beam of the head lamp just off of the

1865
01:54:10,120 --> 01:54:12,920
Speaker 1: head so that the eye is still in sort of

1866
01:54:12,920 --> 01:54:17,680
Speaker 1: that peripheral light that's emitted, but it doesn't think that

1867
01:54:17,720 --> 01:54:20,600
Speaker 1: you're looking directly at it. Ye, these are secrets that

1868
01:54:20,640 --> 01:54:23,479
Speaker 1: I really shouldn't be sharing. Trade secrets. Trade secret I mean.

1869
01:54:26,520 --> 01:54:29,920
Speaker 1: And then uh, try to get near enough to put

1870
01:54:29,960 --> 01:54:33,760
Speaker 1: that snare around around its head and come about rastling it. Well,

1871
01:54:33,800 --> 01:54:36,400
Speaker 1: that's the first step. Then you bring it over to

1872
01:54:36,440 --> 01:54:38,880
Speaker 1: the boat because you can rassle them without a snare.

1873
01:54:39,520 --> 01:54:43,320
Speaker 1: You just mean in the water the circus and see

1874
01:54:43,360 --> 01:54:46,120
Speaker 1: a guy rastling a gator. Yeah, I mean, there are

1875
01:54:46,120 --> 01:54:48,120
Speaker 1: tons of people who do that really well in captive

1876
01:54:48,200 --> 01:54:53,280
Speaker 1: environments in South Florida. I mean there's there's folks. No, okay,

1877
01:54:53,320 --> 01:54:55,040
Speaker 1: so okay, I want to hear what you do. But

1878
01:54:55,080 --> 01:54:56,880
Speaker 1: I thought that like I thought it was a thing

1879
01:54:56,880 --> 01:54:59,640
Speaker 1: where like you grab the gator by the tail, he

1880
01:54:59,760 --> 01:55:03,600
Speaker 1: goes left, you manipulate his tail. Oh and yeah, I

1881
01:55:03,640 --> 01:55:05,800
Speaker 1: mean you can do that stuff if you're in an enclosure.

1882
01:55:06,760 --> 01:55:09,440
Speaker 1: I don't do that. I work in wild populations. You

1883
01:55:09,600 --> 01:55:12,320
Speaker 1: can't just walk up to an alligator and reliably catch it.

1884
01:55:12,360 --> 01:55:14,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure it's happened. Got people that are

1885
01:55:14,520 --> 01:55:17,040
Speaker 1: really good at this, but better than me. But but

1886
01:55:17,160 --> 01:55:19,160
Speaker 1: that's not like if you're gonna go get one tonight,

1887
01:55:19,200 --> 01:55:21,280
Speaker 1: that's not your plan, No, because usually I need to

1888
01:55:21,280 --> 01:55:23,320
Speaker 1: get one hundred in a month or something like that.

1889
01:55:23,440 --> 01:55:28,680
Speaker 1: So wasting that time plus the yeah, plus it's unsafe

1890
01:55:28,760 --> 01:55:32,320
Speaker 1: and would be um, you would be viewed poorly by

1891
01:55:32,360 --> 01:55:35,720
Speaker 1: my employer. We had we're friends with this guy who's

1892
01:55:35,760 --> 01:55:39,560
Speaker 1: a Turkey biologist. Yeah, I Heed was telling us a

1893
01:55:39,600 --> 01:55:44,200
Speaker 1: story about an unkillable gobbler. Is there like like old

1894
01:55:44,320 --> 01:55:47,800
Speaker 1: gators that are like uncatchable, like they hear the boat

1895
01:55:47,840 --> 01:55:53,000
Speaker 1: and they're just unkillable gobbler because someone killed the unkillable

1896
01:55:53,040 --> 01:55:56,600
Speaker 1: gobbler in a tree. Nope, but the new unkillable gobler

1897
01:55:56,600 --> 01:56:04,240
Speaker 1: telling me, hone uh. He said that, Um, they think

1898
01:56:04,240 --> 01:56:08,320
Speaker 1: they got a gobbler that as you're calling him in,

1899
01:56:09,120 --> 01:56:12,000
Speaker 1: he gets to a certain distance and then flies up

1900
01:56:12,120 --> 01:56:14,680
Speaker 1: into the tree. That's the one I'm talking about. Look around,

1901
01:56:14,720 --> 01:56:17,000
Speaker 1: that's the one I'm talking and then like hops from

1902
01:56:17,040 --> 01:56:20,560
Speaker 1: tree to tree. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we talked about that. Yeah,

1903
01:56:20,600 --> 01:56:24,520
Speaker 1: I must have told you about after I've seen him,

1904
01:56:24,640 --> 01:56:26,680
Speaker 1: because I can imagine there's got to be some old

1905
01:56:26,800 --> 01:56:30,840
Speaker 1: ass gators that are just ghosts. Like he's not gonna

1906
01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:34,240
Speaker 1: get me. That's what that that guy in Oakachobi. I said,

1907
01:56:34,280 --> 01:56:36,680
Speaker 1: other gators out here that can live their whole life

1908
01:56:36,680 --> 01:56:39,320
Speaker 1: and not get killed. And he said they get smart, man, Yeah,

1909
01:56:39,360 --> 01:56:41,560
Speaker 1: he goes, they get like hunting a weary white tail.

1910
01:56:41,600 --> 01:56:43,720
Speaker 1: You get to be fifty years old. And he said

1911
01:56:43,760 --> 01:56:46,240
Speaker 1: they know like they don't they don't make big mistakes.

1912
01:56:46,280 --> 01:56:49,520
Speaker 1: They like they they they'll like hold up and thick shit.

1913
01:56:49,840 --> 01:56:52,640
Speaker 1: You don't just catch them out dicking around like they

1914
01:56:52,680 --> 01:56:59,960
Speaker 1: get cautious. Because he's looking for they're looking for gators

1915
01:57:00,160 --> 01:57:02,839
Speaker 1: in like certain situations. Are they cracking them with rifles

1916
01:57:02,920 --> 01:57:05,760
Speaker 1: or how they get no know He takes Cornish game

1917
01:57:05,800 --> 01:57:11,400
Speaker 1: hens fills them with fill a foam so they crack sealer.

1918
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:15,600
Speaker 1: You can't use a hook, so they use a wooden

1919
01:57:15,600 --> 01:57:18,520
Speaker 1: dowell sharpened on each end and you bury that in

1920
01:57:18,560 --> 01:57:20,640
Speaker 1: the Cornish game hen. And what they do is they

1921
01:57:20,680 --> 01:57:23,760
Speaker 1: find the gate or they want watch it. And he

1922
01:57:23,800 --> 01:57:25,919
Speaker 1: gets to spot where he feels like he can approach

1923
01:57:25,960 --> 01:57:28,240
Speaker 1: it and it's in its instinct isn't going to be

1924
01:57:28,280 --> 01:57:30,080
Speaker 1: to run away, but he can approach it where it's

1925
01:57:30,080 --> 01:57:32,000
Speaker 1: instinct's gonna be good. Go down, lay on the bottom.

1926
01:57:32,920 --> 01:57:36,920
Speaker 1: So they'll watch with buyos. They hunt the daytime and

1927
01:57:37,000 --> 01:57:39,320
Speaker 1: he'll get to be like, okay, we can approach it

1928
01:57:39,400 --> 01:57:41,960
Speaker 1: now and its response will be to hide and not book.

1929
01:57:43,680 --> 01:57:45,480
Speaker 1: They go to it and they know right where it is,

1930
01:57:45,560 --> 01:57:48,000
Speaker 1: and he says he sets that bait right where he

1931
01:57:48,080 --> 01:57:51,680
Speaker 1: knows that when he comes up he's gonna find the bait,

1932
01:57:52,400 --> 01:57:55,000
Speaker 1: opens the bail on his fishing rod and goes and

1933
01:57:55,120 --> 01:58:01,640
Speaker 1: gets a couple hundred yards away and waits. He says,

1934
01:58:01,640 --> 01:58:04,400
Speaker 1: eventually it's gonna come up if you did your job right,

1935
01:58:04,720 --> 01:58:06,320
Speaker 1: and he goes you gotta put an up current or

1936
01:58:06,440 --> 01:58:09,640
Speaker 1: up wind. When he comes up, he's gonna be like, oh,

1937
01:58:09,680 --> 01:58:12,920
Speaker 1: shoot a corners game, hen and go eat it. And

1938
01:58:12,960 --> 01:58:15,160
Speaker 1: he said, you'll watch and you'll know when he ate it.

1939
01:58:15,360 --> 01:58:20,560
Speaker 1: Good is his tail and his head come up because

1940
01:58:20,560 --> 01:58:22,520
Speaker 1: he's trying to choke it down. He goes because says,

1941
01:58:22,560 --> 01:58:25,440
Speaker 1: sometimes they'll carry it. Yeah, and if you pull, he's

1942
01:58:25,440 --> 01:58:27,960
Speaker 1: just gonna drop it. But you why wait until and

1943
01:58:28,000 --> 01:58:29,800
Speaker 1: if you get if you're too close him, he's never

1944
01:58:29,840 --> 01:58:32,000
Speaker 1: gonna eat it, he said. If he if he knows

1945
01:58:32,000 --> 01:58:34,160
Speaker 1: you're there, he's gonna grab it and leave. If he

1946
01:58:34,240 --> 01:58:37,480
Speaker 1: thinks he's cool, you wash and you'll know that he's

1947
01:58:37,480 --> 01:58:39,480
Speaker 1: swallowed it, at which point he closes the bail and

1948
01:58:39,520 --> 01:58:42,000
Speaker 1: tightens up on it and first takes up all the

1949
01:58:42,200 --> 01:58:44,880
Speaker 1: braid and gets it to like a cable leader, and

1950
01:58:44,920 --> 01:58:47,040
Speaker 1: then they just start fucking rastling it on the end

1951
01:58:47,080 --> 01:58:50,960
Speaker 1: of that cable leader. Eventually they use a um. Eventually

1952
01:58:51,040 --> 01:58:54,400
Speaker 1: he's a bankster. Yeah. Yeah, they'll get another hook into it.

1953
01:58:54,720 --> 01:58:59,880
Speaker 1: Yeah you can't. You can use a hook, but you

1954
01:59:00,040 --> 01:59:03,040
Speaker 1: can't bait it. So then they'll get a snag like

1955
01:59:03,040 --> 01:59:04,960
Speaker 1: a big treble. Then they'll get a snag and hooking

1956
01:59:05,240 --> 01:59:06,840
Speaker 1: it and then they and then they get it up. Said,

1957
01:59:06,840 --> 01:59:09,360
Speaker 1: everybody's got a job. Everybody on the boat like does this.

1958
01:59:09,640 --> 01:59:13,640
Speaker 1: Yeah that you do this and eventually a banks ticket. Okay,

1959
01:59:13,720 --> 01:59:18,000
Speaker 1: so you go, you you you, you approach your gator. Yeah,

1960
01:59:18,080 --> 01:59:23,240
Speaker 1: with a snare, with a snare. But aren't there a

1961
01:59:23,240 --> 01:59:24,560
Speaker 1: lot of them just aren't going to never let you

1962
01:59:24,640 --> 01:59:30,840
Speaker 1: approach it? Yeah? Yeah, I mean back to your point,

1963
01:59:31,320 --> 01:59:34,480
Speaker 1: I mean, there was there are some folks in Costa

1964
01:59:34,560 --> 01:59:37,320
Speaker 1: Rica who talk about seven meters sized animals in the

1965
01:59:37,360 --> 01:59:42,839
Speaker 1: Tempisk River and um, I mean those are gigantic animals

1966
01:59:43,200 --> 01:59:46,040
Speaker 1: and the reason they get that big is because nobody

1967
01:59:46,080 --> 01:59:49,600
Speaker 1: can ever get a hold of them, right, So I

1968
01:59:50,240 --> 01:59:53,560
Speaker 1: there are animals out there that are sort of iconically

1969
01:59:53,680 --> 01:59:57,640
Speaker 1: large that you see, you know, once a decade, But that,

1970
01:59:57,720 --> 02:00:02,800
Speaker 1: I mean, that's obviously really hard live, uncatchable, undetected. Yeah.

1971
02:00:02,840 --> 02:00:05,920
Speaker 1: Me and my buddy were standing on the bank of

1972
02:00:05,960 --> 02:00:08,880
Speaker 1: a boat dock in Costa Rica once and we saw

1973
02:00:08,920 --> 02:00:11,920
Speaker 1: a head off in the distance in the river that

1974
02:00:12,000 --> 02:00:15,560
Speaker 1: looked to be like five feet long. Just the head,

1975
02:00:15,600 --> 02:00:18,640
Speaker 1: the head, just the head. I mean, obviously me I

1976
02:00:18,680 --> 02:00:23,120
Speaker 1: want I want that to be this massive thing but man,

1977
02:00:23,640 --> 02:00:26,240
Speaker 1: never seen a head that big. I never saw it again.

1978
02:00:26,640 --> 02:00:31,480
Speaker 1: You didn't go rastle it, couldn't rastle it percent of

1979
02:00:31,480 --> 02:00:34,240
Speaker 1: the time for the head thing. I don't know if

1980
02:00:34,240 --> 02:00:37,440
Speaker 1: this applies to crocodise, but isn't it for alligators? You

1981
02:00:37,480 --> 02:00:41,560
Speaker 1: can estimate their length by the width of they're like

1982
02:00:41,600 --> 02:00:47,200
Speaker 1: they're length of their head or something like that. Yeah,

1983
02:00:47,240 --> 02:00:50,560
Speaker 1: there's that. There's a sort of crude anecdotal metric of

1984
02:00:50,600 --> 02:00:53,560
Speaker 1: the distance from the naars to the eyes in inches

1985
02:00:53,920 --> 02:00:58,080
Speaker 1: is roughly how long the animal is in feet. But

1986
02:00:58,160 --> 02:01:03,560
Speaker 1: I mean I think that's relatively reliable. Yeah, So you

1987
02:01:03,600 --> 02:01:06,200
Speaker 1: approach them in the boat. Approach them in the boat.

1988
02:01:05,880 --> 02:01:11,080
Speaker 1: You're come in behind them any which way they'll let

1989
02:01:11,080 --> 02:01:15,480
Speaker 1: me approach. I mean most of the time they'll just

1990
02:01:15,880 --> 02:01:21,560
Speaker 1: run or go under, swim away, and they'll reappear, you know,

1991
02:01:21,960 --> 02:01:24,920
Speaker 1: thirty yards to your left. Oka you do the whole

1992
02:01:25,080 --> 02:01:29,400
Speaker 1: whole thing again, start the boat up, move over to them.

1993
02:01:29,480 --> 02:01:33,760
Speaker 1: If you can get within twelve feet or so, is

1994
02:01:33,760 --> 02:01:37,960
Speaker 1: is the cane pole length, then great, he's something. Oftentimes

1995
02:01:37,960 --> 02:01:40,760
Speaker 1: I try to put the snare on and miss and

1996
02:01:40,880 --> 02:01:42,960
Speaker 1: do it again. But what if he just goes into

1997
02:01:43,000 --> 02:01:45,080
Speaker 1: some real thick shit, you can't go in. Or after all,

1998
02:01:45,120 --> 02:01:47,600
Speaker 1: if they go on land, then they're mine. They go

1999
02:01:47,680 --> 02:01:50,440
Speaker 1: up in the vegetation, I can work my way up

2000
02:01:50,480 --> 02:01:52,600
Speaker 1: in there and put the snare on them. But it's

2001
02:01:52,600 --> 02:01:55,920
Speaker 1: when they go down then I have no idea. When

2002
02:01:55,960 --> 02:01:58,440
Speaker 1: they're coming up, I mean, I'll I'll chase an out. Well,

2003
02:01:58,480 --> 02:02:01,800
Speaker 1: I've learned now to just not like in open waters

2004
02:02:01,800 --> 02:02:04,800
Speaker 1: in Mobile Bay where we're doing research, I could. You

2005
02:02:04,800 --> 02:02:07,040
Speaker 1: could be after the same alligator for eight hours and

2006
02:02:07,120 --> 02:02:10,920
Speaker 1: never catch it. So after like three tries, I move

2007
02:02:10,960 --> 02:02:14,000
Speaker 1: on to green your pastures, like you're not gonna get them? Yeah,

2008
02:02:14,000 --> 02:02:15,880
Speaker 1: I give up on them. And when you put the snare,

2009
02:02:15,920 --> 02:02:17,760
Speaker 1: run it where you trying to put it around his neck?

2010
02:02:19,720 --> 02:02:22,160
Speaker 1: Do you place it with that pole? Place it with

2011
02:02:22,200 --> 02:02:26,080
Speaker 1: a pole? And then them you ain't get shut bring

2012
02:02:26,120 --> 02:02:28,840
Speaker 1: them in or if they're too big to be in

2013
02:02:28,880 --> 02:02:33,880
Speaker 1: the boat, move the boat onto shore and move the

2014
02:02:33,920 --> 02:02:36,440
Speaker 1: animal up on the shore. And what's his attitude about

2015
02:02:36,440 --> 02:02:39,280
Speaker 1: this whole thing? He's pissed. They're not happy. I wouldn't

2016
02:02:39,320 --> 02:02:41,520
Speaker 1: be happy. And you get them up on shore and

2017
02:02:41,520 --> 02:02:43,120
Speaker 1: then how do you how do you eventually get control

2018
02:02:43,160 --> 02:02:46,320
Speaker 1: of them? Cover their eyes? Usually with something if they're

2019
02:02:46,360 --> 02:02:49,040
Speaker 1: really angry, and then one person holds the rope, the

2020
02:02:49,040 --> 02:02:55,040
Speaker 1: other person hops on, shuts their mouth. Use gator tape

2021
02:02:55,200 --> 02:03:02,640
Speaker 1: aka electrical tape. Tape their mouth shut. Not even electrical tapes. Fine,

2022
02:03:03,040 --> 02:03:06,280
Speaker 1: a couple of raps, mouth shut. Tavi's mouth shut. Get

2023
02:03:06,280 --> 02:03:09,040
Speaker 1: the snare off as soon as you can process the animal.

2024
02:03:09,960 --> 02:03:14,640
Speaker 1: So as powerful as that jaw is, yeah, but when

2025
02:03:14,640 --> 02:03:16,520
Speaker 1: it's closed, to get it open, a little bit of

2026
02:03:16,520 --> 02:03:20,840
Speaker 1: resistance is going to keep them from doing that. Yeah. Yeah.

2027
02:03:20,880 --> 02:03:23,680
Speaker 1: There are big animals in cost Rica that we've called

2028
02:03:23,720 --> 02:03:27,000
Speaker 1: I think the biggest crocodilian we've ever caught was a

2029
02:03:27,040 --> 02:03:33,520
Speaker 1: little over sixteen feet. Those are difficult animals to move.

2030
02:03:34,200 --> 02:03:36,760
Speaker 1: Takes a whole team of six or eight of us

2031
02:03:36,800 --> 02:03:43,280
Speaker 1: to move them, well, sometimes less. But the hard part

2032
02:03:43,360 --> 02:03:47,520
Speaker 1: is getting the mouth shut enough to actually put electrical

2033
02:03:47,560 --> 02:03:50,760
Speaker 1: tape on it. Because the top of the jaw to

2034
02:03:50,800 --> 02:03:52,720
Speaker 1: the bottom of the jaw of animal that size is

2035
02:03:52,760 --> 02:03:56,120
Speaker 1: like a foot tall. So I am using all my

2036
02:03:56,240 --> 02:03:59,120
Speaker 1: strength in my arms just to get the mouth shut.

2037
02:03:59,680 --> 02:04:02,920
Speaker 1: You know, somebody runs over and tapes the mouth real quick.

2038
02:04:02,960 --> 02:04:04,960
Speaker 1: Have you ever gotten nipped or got your hand in

2039
02:04:05,000 --> 02:04:07,600
Speaker 1: there on accident or has seen that happen. Man, go

2040
02:04:07,640 --> 02:04:12,680
Speaker 1: ahead and knock on wood right now. No battle scars whatsoever.

2041
02:04:12,960 --> 02:04:19,960
Speaker 1: I have never been seriously injured by a crocodilian. Goodness again,

2042
02:04:20,000 --> 02:04:21,640
Speaker 1: have you ever seen anyone get nipped or got their

2043
02:04:21,640 --> 02:04:26,000
Speaker 1: hands stuck in there? Yeah? Yeah, that's just like a

2044
02:04:26,040 --> 02:04:29,320
Speaker 1: good way to get an infection. Yeah sure, I imagine

2045
02:04:29,320 --> 02:04:32,520
Speaker 1: you got to watch out for that tail too. Huh.

2046
02:04:32,520 --> 02:04:35,320
Speaker 1: People say that, really, but it's not a yeah, I mean,

2047
02:04:35,360 --> 02:04:36,800
Speaker 1: it hurts if it hits you. I mean on a

2048
02:04:36,800 --> 02:04:38,680
Speaker 1: really big animal, you can knock you off your feet,

2049
02:04:38,720 --> 02:04:41,000
Speaker 1: but it's not gonna snap your leg and a half. No.

2050
02:04:41,520 --> 02:04:44,040
Speaker 1: People say that, but that's just hype. So ask you.

2051
02:04:44,040 --> 02:04:46,320
Speaker 1: He can't hurt you with any other body part other

2052
02:04:46,360 --> 02:04:48,160
Speaker 1: than that jaw, really, like you can't. I mean, the

2053
02:04:48,200 --> 02:04:52,680
Speaker 1: whole process is painful for me, especially like in Costa Rica.

2054
02:04:52,760 --> 02:04:56,440
Speaker 1: So usually I jump first on the head and then

2055
02:04:56,440 --> 02:05:00,440
Speaker 1: there's two hundred and fifty pound former football player jumps

2056
02:05:00,480 --> 02:05:03,280
Speaker 1: on behind me and mashes me down onto the animal.

2057
02:05:04,160 --> 02:05:07,400
Speaker 1: That hurts more than anything, as that hurts a lot,

2058
02:05:08,000 --> 02:05:09,720
Speaker 1: but at my age, I try to do that as

2059
02:05:10,080 --> 02:05:13,120
Speaker 1: little as possible. Now and it's his instinct when you're

2060
02:05:13,120 --> 02:05:18,600
Speaker 1: messing with them. It's instinct is to bite you. Well,

2061
02:05:18,680 --> 02:05:21,320
Speaker 1: it's instinct just to get out of the situation that

2062
02:05:21,720 --> 02:05:25,120
Speaker 1: I rudely put it in. Yeah, you know, in this

2063
02:05:25,840 --> 02:05:28,880
Speaker 1: whole scenario. But I mean he'll he'll deliterally snap at

2064
02:05:28,880 --> 02:05:31,680
Speaker 1: you or no, yeah, okay if you can Yeah, got it.

2065
02:05:31,840 --> 02:05:34,600
Speaker 1: So that's on its mind to defend itself by snap

2066
02:05:34,600 --> 02:05:37,960
Speaker 1: and not just to get away. Yeah, and any means

2067
02:05:38,000 --> 02:05:39,400
Speaker 1: necessary to get off of it. I mean, when you

2068
02:05:39,400 --> 02:05:42,000
Speaker 1: have a rope around your neck, you can't get away.

2069
02:05:42,400 --> 02:05:44,960
Speaker 1: Your last resort is to just not get killed, and

2070
02:05:44,960 --> 02:05:48,520
Speaker 1: that's what probably it thinks it's going to happen. Yeah.

2071
02:05:49,120 --> 02:05:52,200
Speaker 1: Can we get into their immune system a bit, because

2072
02:05:52,200 --> 02:05:56,360
Speaker 1: you're telling me how interesting, how robust the immune system is.

2073
02:05:56,400 --> 02:05:58,640
Speaker 1: I know we don't have too much time yet left,

2074
02:05:58,720 --> 02:06:03,160
Speaker 1: but immune this is some really interesting work done. Adam McNeice,

2075
02:06:03,640 --> 02:06:07,680
Speaker 1: colleague of mine. Um. Can I say his name? Oh yeah,

2076
02:06:07,760 --> 02:06:13,840
Speaker 1: Mark Merchant. He's a phenomenal biochemist who studies alligators and

2077
02:06:14,480 --> 02:06:17,440
Speaker 1: his work has shown that. So he essentially wanted to

2078
02:06:17,480 --> 02:06:23,520
Speaker 1: say how strong is alligator blood at killing stuff? And

2079
02:06:23,640 --> 02:06:29,000
Speaker 1: he threw like every kind of fungal pathogen at it

2080
02:06:29,680 --> 02:06:34,120
Speaker 1: a ton of viruses, any bacteria, like twenty three bacteria

2081
02:06:34,320 --> 02:06:38,040
Speaker 1: and it killed them all. Their innate immune system is

2082
02:06:38,080 --> 02:06:45,320
Speaker 1: just so robust at killing pathogens. It's blood. You're saying

2083
02:06:45,320 --> 02:06:50,720
Speaker 1: that it put bacteria and viruses in alligator blood. Yeah.

2084
02:06:50,720 --> 02:06:54,520
Speaker 1: They take blood from the alligator and have like super

2085
02:06:54,560 --> 02:06:57,720
Speaker 1: controlled assays in which they do this stuff. You put

2086
02:06:57,760 --> 02:07:00,400
Speaker 1: blood in a little plate toobe in the plate, and

2087
02:07:00,440 --> 02:07:03,360
Speaker 1: then put other stuff, bad stuff in there, and you

2088
02:07:03,400 --> 02:07:05,800
Speaker 1: can measure how much of the bad stuff was killed.

2089
02:07:06,040 --> 02:07:09,440
Speaker 1: They also do this like zone of inhibition style metric

2090
02:07:09,480 --> 02:07:13,560
Speaker 1: where they they grow a bacteria on a plate and

2091
02:07:13,600 --> 02:07:18,200
Speaker 1: then they put a drop of alligator blood plasma in

2092
02:07:18,240 --> 02:07:21,480
Speaker 1: the center and then measure the diameter of bacteria that

2093
02:07:21,960 --> 02:07:24,839
Speaker 1: is no longer on that plate because it was killed. Wow.

2094
02:07:25,480 --> 02:07:29,560
Speaker 1: And they are so so fast good and killing stuff,

2095
02:07:29,560 --> 02:07:33,960
Speaker 1: and people are probably interested in this whole exactly. Yeah.

2096
02:07:34,000 --> 02:07:36,320
Speaker 1: You know, I'll say this now because it's a good segue.

2097
02:07:36,360 --> 02:07:41,320
Speaker 1: Alligators are great model organisms for human health from an

2098
02:07:41,320 --> 02:07:46,360
Speaker 1: immune perspective, from an eco toxicological perspective, from an endocrine perspective.

2099
02:07:46,480 --> 02:07:49,720
Speaker 1: I mean they they should be more highly regarded in

2100
02:07:49,840 --> 02:07:55,640
Speaker 1: that capacity, and they're starting to be what um, But

2101
02:07:55,640 --> 02:08:01,960
Speaker 1: but they're they're not sensitive to ecotoxics. Oh they are.

2102
02:08:02,120 --> 02:08:04,840
Speaker 1: They are because I know, like like frogs are horrifically sensitive, right,

2103
02:08:04,840 --> 02:08:07,600
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I would say, So there's this There

2104
02:08:07,640 --> 02:08:12,080
Speaker 1: are these things called endocrine disrupting contaminants or endocrine disrupting compounds.

2105
02:08:12,880 --> 02:08:17,960
Speaker 1: And one of the biggest case studies used alligators in

2106
02:08:18,040 --> 02:08:23,280
Speaker 1: Florida out of the Lugillette lab and continued Lugillette lab lineage.

2107
02:08:23,840 --> 02:08:29,760
Speaker 1: They looked at how how synthetically produced contaminants in a

2108
02:08:29,880 --> 02:08:37,520
Speaker 1: lake actually bias the sexual differentiation of hatchling alligators and

2109
02:08:37,680 --> 02:08:43,400
Speaker 1: subsequent age classes. So like, if you expose an alligator

2110
02:08:43,560 --> 02:08:50,040
Speaker 1: to a compound that mimics estrogen or antagonizes estrogen or

2111
02:08:50,080 --> 02:08:54,160
Speaker 1: antagonizes androgens, like all like birth control stuff in the

2112
02:08:54,200 --> 02:08:59,320
Speaker 1: water supply and everything. Yeah, but those receptors are pretty good. Well,

2113
02:08:59,440 --> 02:09:02,320
Speaker 1: the things we make are really good at binding to

2114
02:09:02,360 --> 02:09:09,000
Speaker 1: those receptors or antagonizing them. And the first real case

2115
02:09:09,040 --> 02:09:15,520
Speaker 1: study on environmental estrogens was done in Lake Apopka in

2116
02:09:15,560 --> 02:09:20,040
Speaker 1: central Florida. And I mean you talk about paragrine falcons

2117
02:09:20,360 --> 02:09:24,600
Speaker 1: and cormorants and all that type of stuff, I would

2118
02:09:24,600 --> 02:09:29,160
Speaker 1: say you know, the biggest case study that sort of

2119
02:09:29,200 --> 02:09:32,480
Speaker 1: taught the world about the power of endocrine disrupting cataminants

2120
02:09:32,640 --> 02:09:36,360
Speaker 1: was on alligators. Really, and that study system is still

2121
02:09:36,440 --> 02:09:42,200
Speaker 1: producing tons of really interesting information. Tons like that stuff

2122
02:09:42,240 --> 02:09:46,360
Speaker 1: is damaging. Oh yeah, So in that scenario, most of

2123
02:09:46,400 --> 02:09:52,840
Speaker 1: the toxins, if memory serves, were environmentally estrogenic, probably anti androgenic.

2124
02:09:53,360 --> 02:10:00,440
Speaker 1: So when when you're exposing mom to these compounds through people,

2125
02:10:01,360 --> 02:10:07,560
Speaker 1: mostly like organic chlorine pesticide use usually I'm sorry, I

2126
02:10:07,600 --> 02:10:12,680
Speaker 1: thought you were saying that that. You know, there's you

2127
02:10:12,760 --> 02:10:18,000
Speaker 1: hear about hormones and drinking water from various from various

2128
02:10:18,240 --> 02:10:21,280
Speaker 1: human treatments, hormones. Get I thought you meant that that's

2129
02:10:21,320 --> 02:10:24,080
Speaker 1: what's happened. No, no no, no, yeah, so those are the

2130
02:10:24,160 --> 02:10:30,720
Speaker 1: same thing, because these biotoxins are these biotoxins are influencing

2131
02:10:30,720 --> 02:10:33,520
Speaker 1: the hormones in gators. Not that we're putting hormones in

2132
02:10:33,520 --> 02:10:37,640
Speaker 1: the water that's affecting gators, right, They're they're mimicking endogenous hormones,

2133
02:10:37,680 --> 02:10:40,320
Speaker 1: hormones that naturally exist within the body or at least

2134
02:10:40,440 --> 02:10:44,120
Speaker 1: binding to their receptors. And that because these things are

2135
02:10:44,480 --> 02:10:48,680
Speaker 1: have temperature dependent sex determination, all that really means is

2136
02:10:48,720 --> 02:10:56,280
Speaker 1: the temperature creates up a genetic cascade that turns on

2137
02:10:56,280 --> 02:11:00,240
Speaker 1: one enzyme or turns on a different enzyme, and that's

2138
02:11:00,320 --> 02:11:05,400
Speaker 1: where those enzymes take a maternally supplied hormone pool and

2139
02:11:05,440 --> 02:11:08,880
Speaker 1: say this is all going to become estrogen or this

2140
02:11:08,960 --> 02:11:12,800
Speaker 1: is all going to become androgen like like testosterone. And

2141
02:11:12,920 --> 02:11:16,960
Speaker 1: when you bias that maternally supplied steroid pool was something

2142
02:11:17,000 --> 02:11:21,680
Speaker 1: that looks like estrogen or looks like an androgen, all

2143
02:11:21,680 --> 02:11:25,520
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the signals become a little washy, and

2144
02:11:25,600 --> 02:11:31,160
Speaker 1: you're able to produce in that case, feminized male alligators

2145
02:11:31,360 --> 02:11:36,280
Speaker 1: or super female alligators, in which you see things like

2146
02:11:36,280 --> 02:11:40,600
Speaker 1: like polynuclear oocytes more than one nuclei per egg, or

2147
02:11:40,880 --> 02:11:45,880
Speaker 1: polyovular follicles more than one egg per follicle in females,

2148
02:11:45,920 --> 02:11:50,880
Speaker 1: which is an abnormality, and then you see feminized male

2149
02:11:51,160 --> 02:11:58,200
Speaker 1: individuals that maybe have If you take the gonad out

2150
02:11:58,640 --> 02:12:02,160
Speaker 1: and histologically examine it, slics it really really thin and

2151
02:12:02,200 --> 02:12:06,360
Speaker 1: look at under a microscope, you'll see seminiferous tubules, which

2152
02:12:06,400 --> 02:12:10,280
Speaker 1: are the portions of the gonad that makes berm and

2153
02:12:10,320 --> 02:12:13,120
Speaker 1: then right next to those you may see one egg

2154
02:12:14,120 --> 02:12:16,440
Speaker 1: and You're like, what the heck is going on here?

2155
02:12:16,960 --> 02:12:24,640
Speaker 1: Must be an intercondisrupting contaminant. Better apply for a grant. Man,

2156
02:12:26,520 --> 02:12:28,120
Speaker 1: It's what degree is that going on? I mean, I

2157
02:12:28,120 --> 02:12:30,280
Speaker 1: guess that's the question. Ultimately, people are gonna want to

2158
02:12:30,280 --> 02:12:33,520
Speaker 1: know us to what degree is that going on with humans? Yeah?

2159
02:12:33,560 --> 02:12:39,720
Speaker 1: I mean I teach an eco toxicology class at the

2160
02:12:39,720 --> 02:12:42,960
Speaker 1: master's level of Southeastern and a lot of the literature

2161
02:12:43,000 --> 02:12:49,080
Speaker 1: that we read tends to focus on how potentially volatile

2162
02:12:49,440 --> 02:12:54,720
Speaker 1: these things are. So in the air, So polar bears

2163
02:12:55,080 --> 02:13:00,800
Speaker 1: in the North Pole have super high amounts of PCBs,

2164
02:13:01,400 --> 02:13:04,240
Speaker 1: a synthetic thing that they would never have otherwise been

2165
02:13:04,280 --> 02:13:08,960
Speaker 1: exposed to aside from than being in the air. So

2166
02:13:09,080 --> 02:13:11,480
Speaker 1: I mean, if we're talking about humans, yeah, we're exposed

2167
02:13:11,480 --> 02:13:15,520
Speaker 1: to a lot of stuff all the time. Um, red

2168
02:13:15,600 --> 02:13:20,080
Speaker 1: meat in farm mistake has dioxins in it to a

2169
02:13:20,160 --> 02:13:22,600
Speaker 1: higher degree than almost anything else that you eat. I'm

2170
02:13:22,640 --> 02:13:25,200
Speaker 1: really throwing throwing stuff under the bus here. But I

2171
02:13:25,240 --> 02:13:28,240
Speaker 1: mean maybe we should drink alligator blood and be perfect. Yeah,

2172
02:13:28,320 --> 02:13:33,920
Speaker 1: well that doesn't yeah, but I mean, yeah, I think

2173
02:13:33,960 --> 02:13:37,120
Speaker 1: that the use of alligators to teach us about how

2174
02:13:37,160 --> 02:13:40,040
Speaker 1: these ecotoxins may or may not be affecting humans is

2175
02:13:40,400 --> 02:13:44,240
Speaker 1: a super viable pathway for research and is and continues

2176
02:13:44,280 --> 02:13:48,960
Speaker 1: to be. Man, you got me thinking about that gator blood.

2177
02:13:50,240 --> 02:13:53,160
Speaker 1: What's the uh what was it that? Remember one early

2178
02:13:53,200 --> 02:13:59,920
Speaker 1: in the pandemic um python oil? No, what President trol

2179
02:14:00,200 --> 02:14:03,160
Speaker 1: mused about has anyone looked into that you would drink

2180
02:14:04,960 --> 02:14:11,560
Speaker 1: well each No, no, it caused a big shit storm

2181
02:14:11,560 --> 02:14:16,680
Speaker 1: in the news that I can't know. It wasn't no, no, no,

2182
02:14:16,840 --> 02:14:19,080
Speaker 1: what No. There was like a there was a press

2183
02:14:19,120 --> 02:14:21,680
Speaker 1: conference and someone mentioned that there was some impact of

2184
02:14:21,800 --> 02:14:24,080
Speaker 1: something and there was like a wondering if if, like

2185
02:14:24,200 --> 02:14:27,600
Speaker 1: somehow there was a way to sort of metabolize the substance.

2186
02:14:27,840 --> 02:14:31,440
Speaker 1: Either way, it's got me wondering about you know, you

2187
02:14:31,440 --> 02:14:34,680
Speaker 1: could see a sci fi movie right where people were

2188
02:14:34,680 --> 02:14:37,640
Speaker 1: wanting to consume gait or blood. Well, there's a lot

2189
02:14:37,680 --> 02:14:41,080
Speaker 1: of I mean there has there harveston hide and meat.

2190
02:14:41,160 --> 02:14:43,839
Speaker 1: They could start like a whole supplement thing with the blood.

2191
02:14:44,360 --> 02:14:48,760
Speaker 1: You know. One of the worst movies ever made, um

2192
02:14:49,360 --> 02:14:53,120
Speaker 1: one of my favorite actors worst movies was called The Hunter.

2193
02:14:53,840 --> 02:14:57,400
Speaker 1: Not yeah, not dar Suzala one of the greatest movies

2194
02:14:57,400 --> 02:15:01,480
Speaker 1: ever made. Last Uh, He's hunting for the biomedical. The

2195
02:15:01,600 --> 02:15:08,360
Speaker 1: biomedical evil people wanted their hands on the last thera.

2196
02:15:08,800 --> 02:15:14,360
Speaker 1: What's the what's a Tasmanian tiger? Is a therascene? They

2197
02:15:14,400 --> 02:15:17,040
Speaker 1: got some name. It's a Lazarus species where people are

2198
02:15:17,080 --> 02:15:19,560
Speaker 1: eyes like that it saw one, but maybe it didn't

2199
02:15:19,560 --> 02:15:23,000
Speaker 1: actually go extinct. The evil Like, if there's a movie

2200
02:15:23,040 --> 02:15:25,760
Speaker 1: and there's biomedical people in it, those people will be bad.

2201
02:15:26,400 --> 02:15:29,400
Speaker 1: Oh for sure, I can promise you. Generally the hunters

2202
02:15:29,400 --> 02:15:33,200
Speaker 1: are bad too. And the oil, big oil Disney movies.

2203
02:15:33,640 --> 02:15:35,600
Speaker 1: When they got to set up a conflict, it's the

2204
02:15:35,640 --> 02:15:39,400
Speaker 1: oil people. But BioMed, you're gonna be bad. Never be

2205
02:15:39,480 --> 02:15:41,640
Speaker 1: cast in a movie if you're a BioMed person. They

2206
02:15:41,680 --> 02:15:49,080
Speaker 1: want the lasts. It's not a Tasmanian devil. It's something

2207
02:15:49,240 --> 02:15:53,760
Speaker 1: bigger than Tasmanian tiger. Yeah, there's a tiger or Tasmanian wolf.

2208
02:15:53,960 --> 02:15:58,760
Speaker 1: Maybe William Dafoe. They catch word that there's one left

2209
02:15:59,760 --> 02:16:04,880
Speaker 1: in Willem dafolds like a hunter slash mercenary. And he's

2210
02:16:05,040 --> 02:16:07,280
Speaker 1: and he gets and he takes off with some He

2211
02:16:07,400 --> 02:16:11,000
Speaker 1: has a magical backpack. He heads into the Tasmanian outback

2212
02:16:11,080 --> 02:16:14,080
Speaker 1: with a little backpack, but keeps producing amazing things from

2213
02:16:14,120 --> 02:16:19,320
Speaker 1: this little backpack. There's like an also like side love

2214
02:16:19,520 --> 02:16:23,840
Speaker 1: story going of course. Yeah, um, it's a good movie.

2215
02:16:23,880 --> 02:16:25,720
Speaker 1: He's got a little pack, but also he's got like

2216
02:16:25,760 --> 02:16:29,400
Speaker 1: a shitload of giant traps and gun he needs to

2217
02:16:29,480 --> 02:16:32,680
Speaker 1: go kill this stra scene for the Evil BioMed people,

2218
02:16:33,720 --> 02:16:35,880
Speaker 1: This evil Tasmanian tiger, which is a mark. It's the

2219
02:16:35,959 --> 02:16:39,480
Speaker 1: cool animals. A marsupial like a like a marsupial predator

2220
02:16:40,360 --> 02:16:42,920
Speaker 1: and uh, in the end, he gets kind of burned

2221
02:16:42,920 --> 02:16:46,240
Speaker 1: out on the Evil Biomedical people, shoots it anyway, which

2222
02:16:46,360 --> 02:16:49,520
Speaker 1: really surprised me. Shoots it anyway and then burns it up.

2223
02:16:49,800 --> 02:16:52,680
Speaker 1: He's like in the end, it's kind of like, well,

2224
02:16:52,800 --> 02:16:56,560
Speaker 1: by god, no one's gonna have it, right, It's a

2225
02:16:56,600 --> 02:16:59,199
Speaker 1: weird way to handle it, but yeah, shoots the last

2226
02:16:59,240 --> 02:17:02,400
Speaker 1: one and burns it up, being like they're not gonna

2227
02:17:02,480 --> 02:17:05,320
Speaker 1: have it. No one's gonna have it. Damn it. What

2228
02:17:05,480 --> 02:17:11,200
Speaker 1: was that time on this first Yet that thing's blood

2229
02:17:11,320 --> 02:17:14,720
Speaker 1: to cure sicknesses, to make sicknesses. They're gonna do something

2230
02:17:14,760 --> 02:17:18,760
Speaker 1: with it. So now you know a picturing like does

2231
02:17:18,800 --> 02:17:21,680
Speaker 1: the alligator blood having some kind of that's I mean

2232
02:17:22,480 --> 02:17:25,840
Speaker 1: that ultimately has to be the The idea that like

2233
02:17:26,200 --> 02:17:29,000
Speaker 1: that would be where the big time funding comes from

2234
02:17:29,720 --> 02:17:34,600
Speaker 1: is that if they have this ability to fight off

2235
02:17:34,600 --> 02:17:40,160
Speaker 1: all these infections, then um, that would be a biomedical interest.

2236
02:17:40,560 --> 02:17:46,640
Speaker 1: And I imagine if they have this demonstrable if if

2237
02:17:48,040 --> 02:17:52,640
Speaker 1: synthetic substances in the environment in the form of pollution,

2238
02:17:53,160 --> 02:17:58,400
Speaker 1: have this demonstrable effect on their hormone development and reproduction,

2239
02:17:58,920 --> 02:18:04,320
Speaker 1: that probably becomes of great interest to medical researchers. Absolutely, yeah,

2240
02:18:04,800 --> 02:18:08,960
Speaker 1: I would. I would as a disclaimer, say, do not

2241
02:18:09,160 --> 02:18:13,480
Speaker 1: go try to get alligator blood for any purpose ever.

2242
02:18:14,160 --> 02:18:17,959
Speaker 1: Thank you. What's the but? But yeah, I think you're

2243
02:18:18,000 --> 02:18:19,720
Speaker 1: absolutely right, and I think there's a lot of work

2244
02:18:19,800 --> 02:18:23,480
Speaker 1: that are that's beginning to use alligators as model organisms

2245
02:18:23,520 --> 02:18:26,160
Speaker 1: for human health. What's that's a great thing. What's the

2246
02:18:26,280 --> 02:18:29,080
Speaker 1: state of the gator in the US? How are they

2247
02:18:29,640 --> 02:18:33,120
Speaker 1: They're doing great? I'll handle that one. Yeah, okay, sit, ye.

2248
02:18:34,440 --> 02:18:37,680
Speaker 1: So there's no places where there's like, man, things aren't

2249
02:18:37,720 --> 02:18:40,840
Speaker 1: going well here, they're like generally doing very well. Yeah.

2250
02:18:40,840 --> 02:18:44,560
Speaker 1: I mean throughout the range. Since they're since there need

2251
02:18:44,680 --> 02:18:48,720
Speaker 1: to be a sustainable resource, they're quite readily managed. In

2252
02:18:48,760 --> 02:18:53,800
Speaker 1: the states that they're abundant you know, Louisiana, Florida, Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia,

2253
02:18:53,959 --> 02:18:56,920
Speaker 1: South Carolina has a great program. There are people that

2254
02:18:57,320 --> 02:19:01,240
Speaker 1: manage these things just like any other harvestable resource. And

2255
02:19:01,280 --> 02:19:03,640
Speaker 1: when you see a gator hunter, you're not like you

2256
02:19:03,879 --> 02:19:07,480
Speaker 1: hell billy rednecks. You're like, uh, no, I was going guys,

2257
02:19:07,640 --> 02:19:09,720
Speaker 1: you've been seeing any Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm not.

2258
02:19:09,879 --> 02:19:13,760
Speaker 1: It's it's the it's the regulations and the promotion of

2259
02:19:13,879 --> 02:19:17,560
Speaker 1: them being used as a sustainable resource that ultimately brought

2260
02:19:17,640 --> 02:19:21,600
Speaker 1: them back from extinction. So if it's managed well and

2261
02:19:21,720 --> 02:19:25,440
Speaker 1: effectively and seems to be very well throughout the southeast US,

2262
02:19:25,520 --> 02:19:30,040
Speaker 1: then then that's fine. Have fun. I stay within the loss.

2263
02:19:30,080 --> 02:19:32,520
Speaker 1: You don't wear gator skin boots, I don't. You don't

2264
02:19:32,560 --> 02:19:37,160
Speaker 1: have big gator teeth necklaces. I don't. I'm a biologist, guys.

2265
02:19:37,360 --> 02:19:39,959
Speaker 1: You guys can't do that. You can't. But you can't

2266
02:19:40,000 --> 02:19:43,320
Speaker 1: become like a guy with a gator hat and gator boots.

2267
02:19:43,400 --> 02:19:45,960
Speaker 1: And could you got a gator skull on your desk

2268
02:19:46,040 --> 02:19:48,959
Speaker 1: at work? No, they're in the lab all for teaching.

2269
02:19:49,400 --> 02:19:52,320
Speaker 1: I want one of the skulls bad. How many gators

2270
02:19:52,360 --> 02:19:54,400
Speaker 1: have handled Oh, can you set us up a big,

2271
02:19:54,480 --> 02:20:01,520
Speaker 1: huge gator skull, I mean a big one. Are the

2272
02:20:01,959 --> 02:20:05,920
Speaker 1: transport of alligator materials across state lines? Animal sites? Animal

2273
02:20:06,000 --> 02:20:08,200
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, Oh they are so so. But they

2274
02:20:08,280 --> 02:20:10,600
Speaker 1: just need to be because we're hunting. Some of us

2275
02:20:11,320 --> 02:20:15,720
Speaker 1: meteor folks are hunting in September. So but you are

2276
02:20:15,800 --> 02:20:19,640
Speaker 1: allowed to grins going to transport them, but you need

2277
02:20:19,720 --> 02:20:26,640
Speaker 1: to make But won't you just ask the question? Somebody

2278
02:20:26,680 --> 02:20:29,240
Speaker 1: just asked a question. Send me a big, old, huge games.

2279
02:20:32,280 --> 02:20:34,920
Speaker 1: This is my last question. How many gators? How many

2280
02:20:34,959 --> 02:20:41,760
Speaker 1: gators have you touched? Wild gators, wild alligators, crocodilians or whatever?

2281
02:20:41,840 --> 02:20:45,199
Speaker 1: You know? Oh? In total? Well, we've caught fifteen hundred

2282
02:20:45,280 --> 02:20:49,959
Speaker 1: American crocodiles in Guanta Coste that are marked, so probably

2283
02:20:50,000 --> 02:20:52,280
Speaker 1: add five hundred or so onto that that aren't marked.

2284
02:20:52,600 --> 02:20:57,640
Speaker 1: And for alligators, I would say maybe three or four thousand. Damn,

2285
02:20:58,600 --> 02:21:01,080
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot. It is my job. Are

2286
02:21:01,160 --> 02:21:05,320
Speaker 1: those are those crocs in Costa Rica protected? Are they

2287
02:21:05,360 --> 02:21:09,240
Speaker 1: a species that are used? No, they're not. They're not harvesting,

2288
02:21:09,480 --> 02:21:11,640
Speaker 1: and that's sort of a different great story in the

2289
02:21:11,720 --> 02:21:15,480
Speaker 1: sense that they're they're used profitably for eco tourism, so

2290
02:21:15,680 --> 02:21:20,120
Speaker 1: the management of those populations is also a renewable resource,

2291
02:21:20,200 --> 02:21:23,720
Speaker 1: but in a different, different sort of vein. Mm hmm.

2292
02:21:26,120 --> 02:21:29,360
Speaker 1: I don't got any more questions. Okay, is there anything

2293
02:21:29,400 --> 02:21:32,240
Speaker 1: we missed that You're like, No, this was really fun.

2294
02:21:32,400 --> 02:21:34,920
Speaker 1: These guys really need to know about this about crows.

2295
02:21:34,920 --> 02:21:37,080
Speaker 1: I want to return to my first question. Okay, Oh

2296
02:21:37,200 --> 02:21:42,920
Speaker 1: heart chamber. Oh what was that? Like? Why they can stand? Well? Yeah,

2297
02:21:43,120 --> 02:21:46,039
Speaker 1: and that it was right in the same paragraph as

2298
02:21:46,280 --> 02:21:48,280
Speaker 1: talking about how long they can hold their breath, which

2299
02:21:48,320 --> 02:21:51,840
Speaker 1: I think is dying to know that. How long can

2300
02:21:51,879 --> 02:21:53,440
Speaker 1: they hold their breath? He's gonna give us some wishy

2301
02:21:53,520 --> 02:21:56,800
Speaker 1: washy science. Seven hours? Oh no, he did. I think

2302
02:21:56,840 --> 02:22:02,520
Speaker 1: that's an imperial Well it's all true, that's all true,

2303
02:22:02,560 --> 02:22:04,320
Speaker 1: but no one wants to hear that. They want to

2304
02:22:04,320 --> 02:22:07,440
Speaker 1: hear a number seven hours I think has been recorded

2305
02:22:07,520 --> 02:22:13,040
Speaker 1: in But they do that by by circulating blood through

2306
02:22:13,280 --> 02:22:18,080
Speaker 1: the systemic circuit and bypassing the lungs. They don't actually

2307
02:22:18,080 --> 02:22:20,280
Speaker 1: have a fifth chamber, but they have a forumin of

2308
02:22:20,400 --> 02:22:24,160
Speaker 1: beniza it's called which bypasses the lungs so they can

2309
02:22:24,240 --> 02:22:28,360
Speaker 1: recirculate blood throughout the body, maximizing the exchange of oxygen

2310
02:22:28,440 --> 02:22:32,480
Speaker 1: to cells. Yeah, seven hours. I think that's a number

2311
02:22:32,560 --> 02:22:35,200
Speaker 1: that has been recorded. But if I were to give

2312
02:22:35,200 --> 02:22:44,680
Speaker 1: you a real answer, a layer seven hour, something something

2313
02:22:44,720 --> 02:22:49,040
Speaker 1: cool down there. Somebody needs to like try to create

2314
02:22:49,120 --> 02:22:52,600
Speaker 1: like an external pack of that that, like you you know,

2315
02:22:52,720 --> 02:22:56,880
Speaker 1: instead of an oxygen, instead of that, instead of that,

2316
02:22:57,320 --> 02:23:02,240
Speaker 1: this would be cool. It doesn't bubble um. So so

2317
02:23:02,360 --> 02:23:04,960
Speaker 1: they got that seven hours under water. Oh here's my

2318
02:23:05,040 --> 02:23:07,680
Speaker 1: last question. I'm going back to my first question. You

2319
02:23:07,720 --> 02:23:09,360
Speaker 1: know those a little stock tanks I was talking about,

2320
02:23:09,360 --> 02:23:11,240
Speaker 1: to have him living in it. Yeah, let's say the

2321
02:23:11,640 --> 02:23:17,280
Speaker 1: rainy season never came. Okay, the water never came. He

2322
02:23:17,360 --> 02:23:19,160
Speaker 1: could feasibly live in that little hole the size of

2323
02:23:19,240 --> 02:23:22,840
Speaker 1: his studio. How long long time? Years? Okay, years, I think.

2324
02:23:23,000 --> 02:23:25,200
Speaker 1: So he's not like, holy cow, it's getting close if

2325
02:23:25,280 --> 02:23:27,600
Speaker 1: the if the water doesn't rise, I'm doomed. Like he

2326
02:23:27,640 --> 02:23:31,720
Speaker 1: could he could survive a dry season. I think that

2327
02:23:31,800 --> 02:23:34,280
Speaker 1: if a prey item, and in that scenario it's likely

2328
02:23:34,360 --> 02:23:39,640
Speaker 1: to happen, waterfowl or some animal that needs water approaches

2329
02:23:39,760 --> 02:23:44,080
Speaker 1: that watering hole and they're successfully eating every six months,

2330
02:23:44,280 --> 02:23:46,880
Speaker 1: something kind of big that they can probably live for

2331
02:23:47,040 --> 02:23:50,080
Speaker 1: years and really they metabolically, they're just so efficient. Well,

2332
02:23:50,160 --> 02:23:52,640
Speaker 1: let's say that thing that, let's say it's a little

2333
02:23:52,680 --> 02:23:55,800
Speaker 1: hole dries up. Then I think that Steve's question is

2334
02:23:55,840 --> 02:23:59,640
Speaker 1: that but he only needs the water because it attracts prey,

2335
02:24:00,200 --> 02:24:04,200
Speaker 1: or does the does the gator need water to survive? Yeah,

2336
02:24:04,240 --> 02:24:07,760
Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting. We like to think that all

2337
02:24:07,800 --> 02:24:11,840
Speaker 1: crocodilians need water to survive. But during the dry season

2338
02:24:12,320 --> 02:24:14,760
Speaker 1: in Costa Rica, you see him walking in the woods.

2339
02:24:15,600 --> 02:24:18,800
Speaker 1: I was like, how way far away from any water,

2340
02:24:19,040 --> 02:24:22,240
Speaker 1: like how many miles? Like we've seen him like five

2341
02:24:22,320 --> 02:24:26,279
Speaker 1: kilometers from the nearest water body or more. But presumably

2342
02:24:27,080 --> 02:24:30,360
Speaker 1: presumably he's heading out looking for a new water hole.

2343
02:24:30,959 --> 02:24:35,480
Speaker 1: That's penguin the problem. Well, I don't know, Like intuitively,

2344
02:24:35,800 --> 02:24:39,320
Speaker 1: going up a limestone mountain escarpment would not be where

2345
02:24:39,320 --> 02:24:43,360
Speaker 1: you'd go to find water. But yet sometimes you see

2346
02:24:43,400 --> 02:24:45,920
Speaker 1: them up there in the middle of it. If he's

2347
02:24:46,000 --> 02:24:47,400
Speaker 1: up there where he eats something, if it came in

2348
02:24:47,480 --> 02:24:51,360
Speaker 1: front of him, he tried to eat me. Oh really, well,

2349
02:24:51,480 --> 02:24:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm the jerk again. I caught him and so we

2350
02:24:55,320 --> 02:24:59,240
Speaker 1: had an aggressive interaction, but caught him up in the woods,

2351
02:24:59,360 --> 02:25:01,720
Speaker 1: caught him up in the woods. We were driving back

2352
02:25:01,760 --> 02:25:05,840
Speaker 1: from sampling to where we stay a station, a little

2353
02:25:05,879 --> 02:25:10,720
Speaker 1: biological station, and on the road we saw nine footer.

2354
02:25:11,520 --> 02:25:14,000
Speaker 1: Really yeah, We got out of the car, chased him

2355
02:25:14,000 --> 02:25:16,600
Speaker 1: ind of the woods, caught him, got her sample. I mean,

2356
02:25:16,680 --> 02:25:18,840
Speaker 1: those those are the animals that you really want to

2357
02:25:18,879 --> 02:25:23,240
Speaker 1: put like a SAT tracker on to find out what

2358
02:25:23,320 --> 02:25:25,000
Speaker 1: he's up to. What are they up to in the

2359
02:25:25,120 --> 02:25:28,760
Speaker 1: woods up there? I mean it's crazy, But yeah, if

2360
02:25:28,840 --> 02:25:31,800
Speaker 1: the water hole dries up, I give him less of

2361
02:25:31,840 --> 02:25:37,640
Speaker 1: a chance. But again, you see, alligators would walk to

2362
02:25:37,760 --> 02:25:40,959
Speaker 1: go but yeah, whole of dry up and he would

2363
02:25:40,959 --> 02:25:43,480
Speaker 1: eventually light out. Yeah, yeah, he's out. It's gonna be like, oh,

2364
02:25:43,480 --> 02:25:46,000
Speaker 1: I guess I'm doomed. Unlike that one I saw on

2365
02:25:46,040 --> 02:25:48,240
Speaker 1: the bank. It just goes up there and sits down here,

2366
02:25:48,720 --> 02:25:51,080
Speaker 1: strike out looking for water. Yeah, they'll walk around, and

2367
02:25:51,120 --> 02:25:53,000
Speaker 1: I think they walk around on land so much more

2368
02:25:53,040 --> 02:25:55,640
Speaker 1: than we give him any grud for got it all

2369
02:25:55,720 --> 02:25:59,080
Speaker 1: right for a real My last final one. If I'm

2370
02:25:59,200 --> 02:26:02,960
Speaker 1: down the floor with my kids and you know it's

2371
02:26:03,000 --> 02:26:07,359
Speaker 1: pawd nearby, there's eight foot or sun in itself, what's

2372
02:26:07,440 --> 02:26:10,080
Speaker 1: the best way to approach it? How close can you

2373
02:26:10,200 --> 02:26:13,000
Speaker 1: get and be safe, check it out, you know, let

2374
02:26:13,040 --> 02:26:16,400
Speaker 1: your kids get a good love, you know, worry it

2375
02:26:16,400 --> 02:26:20,680
Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah, yeah, but but but be safe. Well,

2376
02:26:20,720 --> 02:26:25,080
Speaker 1: the safe answer, there's a pair of binoculars. That's not

2377
02:26:25,160 --> 02:26:28,040
Speaker 1: the answer. You're listening, we're looking for. You want to

2378
02:26:28,080 --> 02:26:32,000
Speaker 1: get close. Say now, I'm liable here. I would say

2379
02:26:32,040 --> 02:26:36,760
Speaker 1: that if you stay outside of fifty feet of that thing, now,

2380
02:26:36,800 --> 02:26:40,320
Speaker 1: assuming that there's not a nest around, because nesting females

2381
02:26:40,400 --> 02:26:46,760
Speaker 1: that are attentive will not want you there, varying personality

2382
02:26:46,920 --> 02:26:49,000
Speaker 1: far out of their way to make sure you don't

2383
02:26:49,000 --> 02:26:51,240
Speaker 1: go in hear that nest. So I mean I would

2384
02:26:51,280 --> 02:26:55,039
Speaker 1: stay as far away as feasibly possible, and don't mess

2385
02:26:55,640 --> 02:26:58,360
Speaker 1: you at the water's edd. I would use binoculars and

2386
02:26:58,480 --> 02:27:05,480
Speaker 1: don't mess around at the water's edd. Yeah, that would

2387
02:27:05,520 --> 02:27:10,400
Speaker 1: have meant that my childhood hadn't happened. Take the water's

2388
02:27:10,520 --> 02:27:12,760
Speaker 1: edge away. It was spent the water's edge. It's all

2389
02:27:12,800 --> 02:27:16,600
Speaker 1: you ever did. Yeah, you don't go down by the lake.

2390
02:27:16,800 --> 02:27:19,280
Speaker 1: See what's going on down there? Go rastle a gate.

2391
02:27:20,240 --> 02:27:23,520
Speaker 1: I mean a huge impact on yeh. We staid at

2392
02:27:23,560 --> 02:27:26,360
Speaker 1: that house down there and we were what was that

2393
02:27:26,560 --> 02:27:31,480
Speaker 1: river that was falling bias that we went fishing at. Anyways,

2394
02:27:31,480 --> 02:27:34,080
Speaker 1: there was a dock and a some kind of a waterway,

2395
02:27:34,840 --> 02:27:38,440
Speaker 1: and you know, it was nice enough where you think, gosh,

2396
02:27:38,480 --> 02:27:40,880
Speaker 1: we could just go for a swim. But you can't

2397
02:27:40,959 --> 02:27:44,480
Speaker 1: go for a swim. You can, but you assume a

2398
02:27:44,560 --> 02:27:48,280
Speaker 1: large risk in doing so, right, I mean, nobody in

2399
02:27:48,280 --> 02:27:50,320
Speaker 1: the right minds gonna let their kids go jumping off

2400
02:27:50,360 --> 02:27:52,680
Speaker 1: the dock. I'm not gonna let my kids go jumping

2401
02:27:52,720 --> 02:27:57,640
Speaker 1: off that dock. Yeah, and when I say fifty feet,

2402
02:27:58,080 --> 02:28:00,440
Speaker 1: I would say fifty feet with a fence between you

2403
02:28:00,800 --> 02:28:04,320
Speaker 1: and the animal. Okay, So follow up question, how fast

2404
02:28:04,680 --> 02:28:07,400
Speaker 1: can that eight foot or move on dry ground covered

2405
02:28:07,440 --> 02:28:11,320
Speaker 1: at fifty feet? They can move surprisingly fast if they

2406
02:28:11,440 --> 02:28:15,600
Speaker 1: want you away. I mean, if you're an alligator on

2407
02:28:16,640 --> 02:28:21,040
Speaker 1: not me, okay, No, I mean you guys can run away.

2408
02:28:22,040 --> 02:28:26,119
Speaker 1: But if you're approaching that thing, it has explosive energy

2409
02:28:26,360 --> 02:28:28,920
Speaker 1: and it can move pretty short distances, way faster than

2410
02:28:28,959 --> 02:28:31,400
Speaker 1: people give it credit for. Just stay away from it.

2411
02:28:31,640 --> 02:28:34,720
Speaker 1: Go to a zoo home. What are you into the zoo?

2412
02:28:34,959 --> 02:28:36,760
Speaker 1: Look at it? But oh, if you want to get

2413
02:28:36,760 --> 02:28:43,000
Speaker 1: a glass pane between you, yeah, yeah, all right, so

2414
02:28:43,120 --> 02:28:46,240
Speaker 1: you probably don't want people tracking you down? Do you

2415
02:28:46,280 --> 02:28:47,640
Speaker 1: want people to get a hold you and say, like,

2416
02:28:47,760 --> 02:28:50,560
Speaker 1: here's where you're wrong? Now they can email us, I

2417
02:28:50,640 --> 02:28:54,720
Speaker 1: mean email you. Yeah, I'll be happy to take follow

2418
02:28:54,840 --> 02:28:57,520
Speaker 1: up stuff email. I mean a lot of this stuff

2419
02:28:57,520 --> 02:28:59,240
Speaker 1: we're talking about so interesting, but there's not a lot

2420
02:28:59,240 --> 02:29:01,600
Speaker 1: of empirical they published on some of this stuff, you know,

2421
02:29:01,720 --> 02:29:04,920
Speaker 1: so so it's all out for exploration, a lot of it.

2422
02:29:06,360 --> 02:29:09,600
Speaker 1: And hence I have a job. Well, like if someone

2423
02:29:09,680 --> 02:29:12,000
Speaker 1: wanted to read some of your research, where would they

2424
02:29:12,040 --> 02:29:15,120
Speaker 1: go do that and find it? Or they can go

2425
02:29:15,200 --> 02:29:19,880
Speaker 1: to my website, they can go to research gate, which

2426
02:29:19,959 --> 02:29:23,520
Speaker 1: is sort of a yepe nerd repository for all things

2427
02:29:23,600 --> 02:29:27,400
Speaker 1: that you publish. Google scholar is a phenomenal resource that

2428
02:29:27,520 --> 02:29:30,240
Speaker 1: the public usually doesn't know about, but they can search

2429
02:29:30,320 --> 02:29:34,960
Speaker 1: peer view literature using Google scholar and help bridge the

2430
02:29:35,040 --> 02:29:41,680
Speaker 1: gap between science and the public. Wonderful resource there, Crocodilian

2431
02:29:41,760 --> 02:29:46,360
Speaker 1: biologist Chris Murray of Southeastern Louisiana University. You can send

2432
02:29:46,480 --> 02:29:49,200
Speaker 1: all of your anecdotal contradictions to war he said today

2433
02:29:50,480 --> 02:29:57,879
Speaker 1: address it's just the meat Eater podcast at the meat

2434
02:29:58,000 --> 02:30:00,720
Speaker 1: Eater dot does that live else? We've got our own

2435
02:30:00,760 --> 02:30:04,480
Speaker 1: email Okay, So when something crazy happens and you find

2436
02:30:04,520 --> 02:30:08,280
Speaker 1: a human skull in the woods, call email us. Then

2437
02:30:08,360 --> 02:30:11,040
Speaker 1: call nine one one right exactly. We want we want

2438
02:30:11,080 --> 02:30:15,840
Speaker 1: all your breaking news stuff. The meat Eater podcast at

2439
02:30:16,000 --> 02:30:20,120
Speaker 1: the mediator dot com. Who came up with that? Me

2440
02:30:20,160 --> 02:30:21,959
Speaker 1: and GRN texts about it yesterday? If you really need

2441
02:30:22,000 --> 02:30:28,080
Speaker 1: to know, Um, it could have been podcast, But I

2442
02:30:28,280 --> 02:30:29,880
Speaker 1: was like, we have that, but it's so but no,

2443
02:30:30,040 --> 02:30:32,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. We want our own for our own

2444
02:30:32,920 --> 02:30:36,199
Speaker 1: hot tips, yeah, hot, and then and then, but don't

2445
02:30:36,360 --> 02:30:38,240
Speaker 1: when you want to have when you want to have

2446
02:30:38,360 --> 02:30:41,080
Speaker 1: anecdotal evidence that contradicts what you heard to day, Chris

2447
02:30:41,240 --> 02:30:48,640
Speaker 1: Murray send it to Southeastern louis Louisiana University saying I

2448
02:30:48,800 --> 02:30:53,040
Speaker 1: killed one that was eighty easy. You can still send

2449
02:30:53,080 --> 02:30:56,480
Speaker 1: that to us. I'll filter it, Chris, don't you worry

2450
02:30:56,520 --> 02:31:01,200
Speaker 1: anything to begin with? She send it up. Steve. Did

2451
02:31:01,240 --> 02:31:03,080
Speaker 1: he feel about a biologist coming in here and giving

2452
02:31:03,120 --> 02:31:05,760
Speaker 1: relatively direct answers and not trying to get it good?

2453
02:31:05,840 --> 02:31:09,240
Speaker 1: He got? He did that little wishy washy deal they do.

2454
02:31:10,160 --> 02:31:12,039
Speaker 1: I can't remember what he was doing it about. Oh

2455
02:31:12,120 --> 02:31:15,680
Speaker 1: how fast they grow, little wishy washy. He brought home.

2456
02:31:15,760 --> 02:31:17,560
Speaker 1: He brought it home, he brought home. He he want

2457
02:31:17,640 --> 02:31:20,320
Speaker 1: up coming down with an answer. It wasn't. It wasn't

2458
02:31:20,360 --> 02:31:24,400
Speaker 1: all like it depends what about this depends and this depends.

2459
02:31:25,760 --> 02:31:28,960
Speaker 1: It does depend, But nobody wants to hear that on here.

2460
02:31:29,040 --> 02:31:32,840
Speaker 1: So what I like asking scientists is when they're doing research,

2461
02:31:33,080 --> 02:31:39,039
Speaker 1: like asking what do they hope happens? Smoke comes out

2462
02:31:39,080 --> 02:31:42,720
Speaker 1: of their ears? What do you hope happens? Well, that's

2463
02:31:42,760 --> 02:31:44,760
Speaker 1: the whole point. I can't hope because I gotta be unbiased.

2464
02:31:44,800 --> 02:31:47,760
Speaker 1: I'm like, by no, you hope something that happens. I know,

2465
02:31:47,920 --> 02:31:50,280
Speaker 1: you hope it's interesting. Yeah, Like when you put a

2466
02:31:50,320 --> 02:31:52,680
Speaker 1: collar on the links, I'd be like, be like, what

2467
02:31:52,760 --> 02:31:54,880
Speaker 1: do you hope happens? And they're supposed to Probably they'd

2468
02:31:54,920 --> 02:31:56,879
Speaker 1: be like, well, we just want to catch the data.

2469
02:31:57,120 --> 02:31:58,520
Speaker 1: I'd put it on and be like, I hope this

2470
02:31:58,560 --> 02:32:01,680
Speaker 1: thing turns up some crazy that's place. But I would

2471
02:32:01,720 --> 02:32:03,600
Speaker 1: never be able to say it. I'd say I just

2472
02:32:03,680 --> 02:32:06,840
Speaker 1: want to have an accurate representation. I mean, while I'm like,

2473
02:32:06,879 --> 02:32:09,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't be sweet of some guy in Iowa found this links?

2474
02:32:10,920 --> 02:32:15,040
Speaker 1: You know they're hoping, they're hoping it happens all right,

2475
02:32:15,879 --> 02:32:32,480
Speaker 1: thank everybody, thanks, thank you. Right, oh see your gray

2476
02:32:33,680 --> 02:32:48,320
Speaker 1: shine like silvering in the sun. Right, all right, my right, sweetheart,

2477
02:32:49,280 --> 02:32:54,520
Speaker 1: we're done. Beat this damn course, dad taking her now

2478
02:32:54,600 --> 02:33:05,200
Speaker 1: one right, unbeat this damn horse today, So take your

2479
02:33:05,240 --> 02:33:07,320
Speaker 1: new one and ride on.