1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: So we have another guest classic episode today. Guys, this 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: is this is something that really stuck with me, and 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: I think it sticks with all of us. You know, 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: you share so much about serial killers that are often 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: romanticized here in the US in fiction and in documentaries. Uh, 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: but how many serial killers are there? How many have 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: yet to be apprehended? That's the question we asked today, 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: and it goes to some disturbing places. You know. Yeah, 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: the first thing you have to do to be able 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: to catch a serial killer is to identify the work 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 1: of a serial killer, which is sometimes uh not as 12 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,599 Speaker 1: easy as television and film may make you think it is. 13 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: That's right. I mean, we are really lucky to live 14 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: in an era where a lot of film and television 15 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: producers do kind of understand that's a little more than 16 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 1: they may have in the past. And we have series 17 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: like mind Hunter that does do a pretty damn good 18 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: job of getting inside this whole Processy. So, in this episode, 19 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: we're joined by a Christian Sager Um, excellent comic book 20 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: writer and former host of Stuff to Blow Your Mind 21 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: in general all around good dude, to talk about some 22 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: cold cases, um and some of the inherent challenges in 23 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: tracking serial killers and figuring out if in fact they've 24 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: been caught at all. And the spooky thing is, Folks, 25 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: we don't know who is listening to this episode right 26 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: now you'll see what we mean. And quick note here 27 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: you may hear a few names or individual killers in 28 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: this episode that have been apprehended since we created this 29 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: episode in October of from UFOs two Ghosts and Government 30 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: cover Ups. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can 31 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want 32 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: you to now. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. If you've heard 33 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: the intro music, hopefully that means you're in the right place. 34 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: I'm Ben and a null and most importantly, your you 35 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: and you're here, which makes this stuff they don't want 36 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: you to know. Now. This episode has a lot of 37 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: stuff going on and hopefully you'll find it as interesting 38 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: as we do. But before we get to the dark 39 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: heart of today's topic, we have some very big news. Uh, 40 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, Matt Frederick has returned. That is right, 41 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: I have returned, Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome, Welcome, that's Frederick. 42 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: Thank you know sip, I'm it is you though, right, 43 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: You're not a vampire dressed up as our friend Matt. 44 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: I cannot confirm nor deny that. Are you a replicant? 45 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: That is? Perhaps I am so sleep deprived at this moment. Seriously, 46 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: two and a half hours last night, and I tried 47 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: very hard to get some sleep last night and it 48 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: did not happen. So perhaps this is an inkling of 49 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: Matt Frederick. Now, Matt, is that because vampires don't actually 50 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: sleep at night? Yeah, I don't know. I'm share biologists, 51 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: or is it because of something else. It's the little 52 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: thing we talked about before. You know, babies, babies, babies 53 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: everywhere they do you tend to make sounds at odd hours, Yes, 54 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: they do. And I have found out that my wife 55 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: sleeps right through those sounds, and I do not. Yeah, 56 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: I do not. But I also am terrified to where 57 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: earplugs or something just in case something does go wrong 58 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: or I need to hear that sound. So at this 59 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: point I'm just kind of living with it, you know, 60 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: It's it's all good. Though. Do you have one of 61 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: those new fangled video baby monitors or you get that 62 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: stage yet not? We I have one. It's not a 63 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: new fangled one. It's literally a security camera that I 64 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: can broadcast essentially over bluetooth a couple of other things. 65 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna use that with the frequencies I can 66 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: watch your baby. You know what, Christians Saker guest on 67 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: our show today. I'm gonna get through that later. I'm 68 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: not even gonna address that comment right now. Christie raises 69 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: like a good point because when you say see purity camera, 70 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: does sound like you think your baby's gonna steal or something? 71 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, I mean, you know, look, I'm not 72 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: gonna say anything against Mr. I'm just gonna say his name. 73 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: I don't know have I said his name before I'm here. 74 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: I don't know that you've spoken his name. I don't 75 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: think I'm going to I have a son, Mr. M 76 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: which is a mosquito service in Atlanta. I don't know 77 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: if anybody knows that. Oh I get a like a 78 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: like a miss to PESTI said, miss. There we go. 79 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: We have also, as you could tell, buried the lead 80 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: a little bit, because we do have a fourth person 81 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: on the show today who just got introduced to you, 82 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: but we're going to We're going to do it again 83 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: because we love introducing this guy. You'll remember him from 84 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: some earlier episodes that we have done. Our our friend 85 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: and colleague, co host of Stuff deploy your mind, writer 86 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: of numerous things. Here at how Stuff works. One more 87 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: time for Christian Seger. Thank you. I'm so happy to 88 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: be here on this momentous occasion. Jan and I didn't 89 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: realize that in the Stuff they don't want you to 90 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: know that they were Nazi vampires sometimes Nazi replicant okay, 91 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: Nazi replicant vampires. Well, I'm glad to be here to 92 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: learn the deep dark secret. There's this there's another lead 93 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: you're bearing slightly? Is that with you know, no explanation. 94 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: Last week's episode was Matt was back. That's a very 95 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: came back. It was a John Tyder moment and discuss 96 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: it um and just you know, just to shed a 97 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: little light on that. That was an episode we had 98 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: recorded right before Matt took his leave, and um, it's 99 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: the first in this this series that we're working on, 100 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: so it's since that one. One of the last things 101 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: I want to say before we get into the meat 102 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: of this is a huge thank you to super producer 103 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: Noel brown Stiff for taking over and just being awesome 104 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: on the show. Thank you, Ben for basically helming everything 105 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: while I was gone from the videos to you know, 106 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: the podcast everything. Thank you Christian for making sure house 107 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: how stuff works, headquarters, you know, is in order. I 108 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: know every single thing. Yeah, everything, Everything's fine. Did you 109 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: you realize it sounds a little like an awards speech? Right? Okay, 110 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: So I also want to thank you. I'm no academy. 111 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: You also want to thank Mr Mr Mr Mr for 112 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: having those signs that I noticed and stayed in my 113 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: head until I came on this podcast. So also rock 114 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: Star Energy Drink for keeping me awake when I have 115 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: to be a little native advertising. Yeah, you like that. 116 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: Give me some free energy drinks please. That's where the 117 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: money comes from. People stuff they don't want you to know. 118 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: That's right. The vampire Nazis drink Monster Energy drinks. It's 119 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: the only thing. It's replaced blood. Uh, not just in 120 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: Matt's system, not just mets circulatory system, but in that 121 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:54,119 Speaker 1: of Nazi vampire, Nazi replicant vampire around the world. So, guys, 122 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: were we're several minutes into the beginning show, and it's 123 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: good that we started out with some levity and some 124 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: friends are turning and well met because today we are 125 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: we are going into a dark subject. We're returning to one. 126 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: You will recall listeners that if you're listening to these 127 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: podcasts in order. Previously we started the can we get 128 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: like a previously who's got a good voice? Previously stuff 129 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know? Boy, that was that 130 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: was great, you guys, so previous we did the we 131 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: did this topic earlier. The people that asked us about 132 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: you had asked us over Twitter, Facebook, YouTube comments to 133 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: cover the so called Highway of Tears. And while we 134 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: were looking into that in this series with with another 135 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: Friends show, Scott Benjamin Christian, we started talking off air 136 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: about other disturbing things related to serial killers and we 137 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: found and we found, um, what's I guess worse than 138 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: disturb and we found some horrifying things about serial killers 139 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: on the loose. Yeah, I'll put it this way. So 140 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: we've also done a video about this subject, which I'm 141 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: assuming is gonna be live by the time this podcast 142 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: is really will correspond. Yes, yes, perfect, So you can 143 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: go watch that video and here's a little behind the 144 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: scenes for you. We went were very jocular, as you've 145 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: just heard. We went in to go shoot that episode 146 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: and just could not muster the humor that we normally 147 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: have because it's a very dark topic and it really 148 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: kind of brought brought the tone down. Uh so that 149 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: the video the video is like the dark sister to 150 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: this podcast, probably, but I think too. I mean, we're 151 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: gonna talk about a lot of the same subject sure today. Uh. 152 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: I also think that it's kind of fascinating though in 153 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 1: its own way, in that true crime and serial killers 154 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: and especially uncaught serial killers, the stories behind them, I 155 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: think are they they encapsulate something about American culture. I don't, 156 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: I can't put my finger on it, but they encapsulate 157 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: something about it at these like moments in time that 158 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: are kind of perfect. Have you ever read um, Norman 159 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: Mailer's The Executioners Song before? Oh wow? Yeah, a long 160 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: time ago fantasic. It's just this great, uh true crime book. 161 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 1: It's it's nonfiction actually, I'm sure he you know, put 162 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: some hyperbole in their huge book, but about a guy 163 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: responsible for murder on death row and uh, just a 164 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: great way to capture kind of this particular moment in 165 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: American history. And I feel the same way about some 166 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: of these stories that we're about to tell today, although 167 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: they're not only American, are they right? Absolutely, we have. 168 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: Also we've also seen similar things such as the Devil 169 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: in the White City, right, Yeah, that's another one during 170 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: Welfare the way that John Wayne Gacy fundamentally altered the 171 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: Western perception of clowns and it's probably responsible for a 172 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: lot of uh, chorophobia. I think it is the word. 173 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: So I have an aside that will maybe help us 174 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: out here. I have a friend who is currently staying 175 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: in a clown motel in the desert. I believe it's 176 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: in Arizona for one month. What is a clown motel? 177 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: A clown themed motel in the middle of the desert. 178 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: He raised money on Kickstarter to do this, uh, and 179 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: he's staying there and writing about his experiences and uh. 180 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: Part of the Kickstarter the rewards was that he has 181 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 1: to dress up like a clown every once in a 182 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: while in his room just sit there. I mean we've 183 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: all done that, right guys. Yeah, sure, I've one last 184 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: aside on this. Um. My wife showed me a picture 185 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: two weeks ago of one of her best friends who 186 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: was hanging out a bar because she was moving away 187 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: from Atlanta, and it was like their goodbye party there 188 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: was a gentleman drinking alone at the bar, and all 189 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: that he wanted to talk about was this picture he 190 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: had on his cell phone, an old picture lead to 191 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: can a picture of of him as a kid and 192 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: John Wayne Gacy at his birthday party, making Blome him. 193 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: I remember you telling me about this, or maybe you 194 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: shared it. I don't. I think she may be shared. 195 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. That's what it was. It was Chandler, 196 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: our coworker. He was there. He was there, and he 197 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: told me about it. Yeah. Wow, very strange. And it's 198 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: it's also strange when you consider that what we're going 199 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: to examine now will be the likelihood of a serial 200 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: killer uncaught running free range somewhere in your town, somewhere 201 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: in your neck of the woods. And we'll take a 202 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: look at the statistics and the facts here. But you've 203 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: probably had this thought before, ladies and gentlemen, guys, know, 204 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: Matt Christian, have you ever been in a crowd and thought, 205 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: you know, I wonder what the worst thing someone has 206 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 1: done in this crowd is. Because it's true that it's 207 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: more difficult to get away with murder nowadays than it was, 208 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: you know, when our parents or grandparents were our age. 209 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: But it's a it's a paranoid thought. The good news 210 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: is that serial killers, as we're going to find, are 211 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: relatively rare birds in the great aviary of crime. Right, 212 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: But what so? First off, like Matt, what is a 213 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: serial killer? Serial killer as defined by the FBI's Crime 214 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: Classification Manual, It essentially says that they have to kill 215 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: in several places, so at least three places during different events, 216 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: and there has to be a cooling off period in 217 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: between these deaths these killings. Okay, and that's that's a 218 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: commonly accepted definition at least, yes, that is when the 219 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: FBI says, hey, we're going to define this crime as this, 220 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: then generally I go, okay, FBI. You know, what's something 221 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: that I hadn't thought about until now and I think 222 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: could bear some further research from maybe another episode. Is 223 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: that the FBI is defining that serial killer feels like 224 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: a very American phenomenon, right. I'm sure it's not. I'm 225 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: sure it happens in plenty of other countries, but I 226 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: wonder how it's defined and other cultures, and especially since 227 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: we're going by that classification, right, Yeah, and the FBI, 228 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 1: you'll often hear it called serial murdering or something. There 229 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: were there were some closely related types of homicide that 230 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: we looked at in the video, right, that you have 231 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: to distinguish between. Yeah, well, right, you've got mass murders 232 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: and those are basically they're there. The reason why they're 233 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: different from serial killers is because that's when you have 234 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: four or more victims, but it's in one specific time 235 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: and location. Right. So unfortunately, this is something we're familiar 236 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: with recently because we've had kind of a spat of them. Uh. 237 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: And then there's also spree killers, which are a little different. Uh. 238 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: And the FBI refers to these as killers that tend 239 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: to keep killing over a period of days or weeks, 240 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: but they're in different locations, right, and they don't have 241 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: the cooling off period. So unlike a serial killer, who 242 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: would maybe you know, uh, take like a month between 243 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: killing or or maybe longer. These there isn't that kind 244 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: of pattern, right. These people may continue killing until they 245 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: are stopped. Literally. Uh. There's another thing here that we 246 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: could add while we're defining what makes a serial killer, 247 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: and that is there's often some sort of psychological aspect 248 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: to the crime, some sort of exploration of an emotional trauma, 249 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: for instance, Uh, some sort of ritualized thing that is 250 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: based on as based on a pre existing mental condition. Right, 251 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: so people are reliving certain moments, or people are responding 252 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: to a pathological problem with a parent and childhood or 253 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: something like that. But that's this, This is what we 254 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: have when we're when we're loosely defining these things. And 255 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: the phrase serial killer comes was first from a book 256 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: called The Complete Detective published in nineteen fifty. But going 257 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: back to this conversation about serial killers and the the 258 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: very American nature of it, which I agree, many many 259 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: cultures across the world associate serial killers with the US 260 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: and the other the only other big one being Jack 261 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: the River, but the the the idea, the actual idea 262 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: of a serial murderer comes was coined in nineteen thirty 263 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: one in Germany to a in reference to a killer 264 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: named Peter Kirkten. You know, I think the media in 265 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: the US has certainly distorted maybe our view of what 266 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: what a serial killer looks like, what they sound like. 267 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: I agree, you know, how they function, what their problems 268 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: are psychologically. And one of the big things that I 269 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: noticed the FBI kept reiterating, is that serial killers don't 270 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: all look the same way. They do not all follow 271 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: up out and there are so many things that you 272 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: have to look at when you're trying to profile somebody 273 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, exactly. I think that that is the 274 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: thing that's actually scary about thinking about uncaught serial killers, right, 275 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: is the idea that in our entertainment that we almost 276 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: fetishize this serial killer entertainment culture. Right. Uh, think about 277 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: like shows like Hannibal. Right, so the whole show is 278 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: about one profiler who's profiling all these different serial killers 279 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: that just happened to all happen around Baltimore, Maryland. Right. 280 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: I love that show, but it does, you know, stuff 281 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: like that, and a lot of police procedurals do sort 282 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: of not glorified but um create a somewhat fantasy version 283 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: of what this is like and there and there's always 284 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: an assumption that there's like one specific incident like that 285 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: grandma wasn't nice to them when they were in ten 286 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: or uh, you know what, what's Hannibal Lecter's incident something 287 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: with his sister? Right, Well, this this okay spoiler alert. Officially, 288 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if we want to do a sound 289 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: cue for that or something. But he was forced to 290 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: participate in acts accountabilism a child and that that'll do it, right. 291 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: I think that's an excellent point because it's one of 292 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 1: the myths, and there is this mythology about serial killers. 293 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: But we have to be clear. A serial murderer doesn't 294 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: necessarily have to have some physiological injury or a neurological 295 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: injury to their brain like oddust tool, right. Um. It 296 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,479 Speaker 1: can instead be a lack of empathy, could be part 297 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: of the ingredients. There there have been, of course, you know, 298 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: there's that famous triumvirate that was proposed earlier that suggested 299 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: a relationship between were suggested. There were three red flags 300 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: to see someone come growing up to become I think 301 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: a pyromaniac, a sexual deviants impossible least serial killer, which 302 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: we're bedwdding to late age, torturing animals almost The third one, 303 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: torturing animals is the one I always remember. The Oh 304 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: fire was our striving a Honda Odyssey Christian that I'm 305 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: not allowed to comment on that actually, But but here's 306 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: our point. We have a hard time as a society, 307 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: at least in the States, profiling what a serial killer 308 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: is because they can be very different. We're not looking 309 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: at we're not looking at the route of a perpetrator 310 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: or criminal. We're looking at the work that they have done, 311 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: and we're looking at the crimes they have committed. And 312 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: that makes it very, very difficult to to find the 313 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: source of it, which is why one of the biggest 314 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: myths about serial killers that they get caught all the time, right, Yeah, 315 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 1: and I think that too, like that part of the 316 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: myth that entertainment spreads as well as and no offense 317 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: to any criminal profilers out there, but I don't think 318 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: that it works like it does on TV, right, Like, yeah, 319 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: they want to get caught kind of, so they play 320 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: a little game and they all have like like a 321 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: little theme about how they do it, you know, like 322 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: as we're about to find out, that's the the m 323 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: O isn't always the same first of all, right, um, 324 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 1: but but but also just that like it's not so 325 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: easy to nail down exactly what kind of person this 326 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: is so that you can narrow down the field of 327 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: potential suspects. Right, So, just just as a warning for 328 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: everyone who is listening to the podcast, we are entering 329 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: the part of the show where we're going to talk 330 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: about some grizzly details. And we were doing this. Um, 331 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: we're doing this because this is true crime, which is 332 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: something that interests all of us associated with this. Uh. 333 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: This is also an opportun tunity to shed some light 334 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: on some things that are misportrayed. And also, these are 335 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: real monsters. These are the closest thing two genuine monsters, 336 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: you know. And and they're even there's a great folkloric 337 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: supposition or theory that reports of werewolves and stuff were 338 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: really these older cultures. Right, trying to understand serial killers, 339 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,479 Speaker 1: But why would someone do this? Right, So, we have 340 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: several examples of serial killers who are currently not apprehended. 341 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and get started with number one. 342 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: And I'm going to throw this to Christian because I 343 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: know you did a lot of research on this fellow. Yeah, 344 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: I am this person. Yeah. I mean that's another thing, right, 345 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: is that it's often assumed that serial killers are male. 346 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: Uh So this particular one is known as the New 347 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: Bedford Highway killer. And I chose to look deeper into 348 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: this one because I'm from the Boston area and New 349 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: Bedford's pretty close to Boston, Massachusetts. Uh. And one of 350 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: my good friends grew up there actually, and I've spent 351 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: some time there. So I had a bit of an 352 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: idea of the locale in my head when I was 353 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: reading this. It wasn't so it wasn't just like reading 354 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 1: text in research, you know what I mean. Like, I 355 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 1: had an idea of of what the culture was like there. 356 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: Um So in nine, uh, somewhere between nine and eleven women, 357 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: they don't know if all of them were victims of 358 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: this particular killer were murdered between April and September in 359 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: New Bedford. And if you're not familiar, New Bedford is 360 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: the town where Herman Melville set Moby Dick um. So 361 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: it's a seaside town in Massachusetts. Uh used to have 362 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:46,199 Speaker 1: a strong uh fishing culture industry, and it fell on 363 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: hard times. Uh. So all of these bodies were dumped 364 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: by the side of various highways leading outside of New Bedford, 365 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: Root one forty and Roots six uh. And all of 366 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: these women were thought of as set workers. Uh, and 367 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: they all were thought of as having drug problems. Now, 368 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: I will say like in some of the research, there 369 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: were parents of these victims who disputed that uh. And 370 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: and I was telling you guys off air that my 371 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 1: my buddy who grew up in this town said, you know, 372 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: I'm not all that surprised. There's like a particular type 373 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: of person who like hangs out downtown and they're just 374 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: assumed to be involved in drugs or the sex trade 375 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: or something like that, and they're just largely ignored by 376 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: the rest of the community. So so he wasn't all 377 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: that surprised that they were sort of labeled that way. 378 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: And it's easy I think for uh that that idea 379 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 1: to sort of fall through the cracks to right and say, 380 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: like just slap that on and say, well, of course 381 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: that's why they got killed, right, and then they would 382 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: and then it's also from the killer's perspective, less likely 383 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: to draw attention. Yeah. Absolutely. Um So, the thing that 384 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: was really interesting about the actual finding of the bodies 385 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: is that, I mean, this New Bettor is a fairly 386 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: populated area. Most of these bodies were badly decayed and 387 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: already exposed to animals and the elements by the time 388 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: they were found. And we're talking about on the side 389 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: of the highway, not like in the forest, you know. 390 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: Um So, the problem here was that there was a 391 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: lack of physical evidence for the police to really work with. Uh, 392 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 1: they just had these bodies and they didn't really have 393 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: you know, I mean they've they've been exposed for for 394 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 1: quite some time, so there there wasn't a lot to 395 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: work with there. So what went on was in nineteen nine. Sorry, 396 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,360 Speaker 1: like I said, New Bedford was on hard times. Uh. 397 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: In Massachusetts is generally acknowledged as kind of, you know, 398 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: being a little bit shady. It's a place where you 399 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: can get uh, coke and heroin. Uh and it was regarded, 400 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: you know as having a bit of a heroin problem. 401 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: There was a local clinic there at the time that 402 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: estimated that it was treating at least four hundred heroin 403 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: attics a day. So that's second to Boston in the state. Um. 404 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: Uh So you know, again, like that helps paint a picture, 405 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: but it also gives you an idea of sort of 406 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: like why the police I think gravitated to this idea 407 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: of just like okay, so their sex workers and their 408 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: drug addicts, so that's how they're getting napped, right. Um. 409 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: The other problem here is that many of the original 410 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: investigators that were involved either have retired or moved away, 411 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: or they've like moved up the ranks. In the Massachusetts 412 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: Police Force, and they're in command positions now that can't 413 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: be abandoned so that they can follow up on leads 414 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 1: on this case. So like they're chief now, and they 415 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: because of that, they can't go back to decades old cases. Yeah. 416 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: And and honestly, like when I was looking into sort 417 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: of the broader range of uncaught serial killers, I think 418 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: that that's a fairly common problem with finding these guys 419 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: decades later, you know, is that, uh, like the other 420 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: one I'll talk about in this episode had a sort 421 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: of similar thing where you know, people have retired, moved away, 422 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: or they just you know, had moved on to bigger positions. 423 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: And and unfortunately these cases they're not forgotten. They're still there, 424 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: but they're not being worked. I guess it's like, you know, 425 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 1: from from how entertainment is terming it, it would be 426 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: a cold case. Right. So this is just me thinking 427 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: inside the podcast room, and I know this might be horrible, 428 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: but that that fact also kind of makes me a 429 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: bit suspicious of the law enforcement. And I'm not saying 430 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: and you know, as a blanket way of law enforcement 431 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: in those areas, but I don't know if in the 432 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: wildest of theories if someone was involved in the law enforcement, 433 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 1: then you know, if they've moved up and they are 434 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: no longer involved in such things, or perhaps I don't, 435 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: we're able to cover up some actions, you know. Yeah, 436 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: it does make sense in these allegations of potential cover ups, right, 437 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: It's something. It's a trope we see often in different films. Yeah. Again, 438 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: is it just media muddying my perception? Not? Not necessarily, 439 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: because there are cases such as the Atlanta child murders 440 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: from Sight One, which is, as listeners know, the town 441 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: where we record this show. There was an Atlanta native 442 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: named Wayne Williams who was who was convicted for murders. 443 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: The child murders were grizzly and included almost thirty kids, 444 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: you know, And at this point, um, there are many 445 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: people who believe that Wayne Williams was set up or 446 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: as a murderer who had something attributed. And another way 447 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: this corruption could happen would be if you consider the 448 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 1: story of Henry Lee Lucas, who has suspected and I 449 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: hope you hear my air quotations here guys suspected of 450 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 1: hundreds of murders. But there's also a question whether law 451 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: enforcement was you know, goading him into confessing things or 452 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: incentivizing him to get that off the books. So this 453 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: is an aside. Uh, but let me let me formulate 454 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: something here on Stuff to Blow your mind. Did an 455 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: episode about the psychology of necrophilia, and uh, it was 456 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: an intense episode, but it was also really interesting to 457 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,959 Speaker 1: dive into the research and surprisingly there's a ton of 458 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: research out there. Uh. And uh, you know, if you 459 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: want to learn more, we you know, go listen to 460 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: that episode of Robert and I talking about people having 461 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: sex with dead bodies. But uh, there is in necrophilia 462 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 1: under it's understood that as a mental disorder. It's something 463 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: that develops when people have the opportunity to take part 464 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,719 Speaker 1: in it due to their career. So there's like a 465 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: good chunk of necrophilia acts that are associated with it 466 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: and only perform those acts because you know, they work 467 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: in a hospital or um or perhaps they work in 468 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: a morgue or something like that, they come into contact 469 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: with dead bodies and they have the opportunity. So alright, 470 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: establishing that, moving back to where we are on Uncaught 471 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: serial Killers, you know, the police are also in a 472 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: situation in which they are often working with dead bodies. 473 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: That's you know, that's that's interesting because I'm not saying 474 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: police all police are necrophilias the serial killers. I'm just 475 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: saying that if there was the potential for a mental disorder, 476 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: the career puts them in a situation where they have 477 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: the opportunity to indulge in such fantasies. But that's an opportunity, 478 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 1: you know. It reminds me of another statistic I read 479 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: where apparently, and this was only conducted with men, I 480 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: think apparently male uh shoe store employees have a higher 481 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: likelihood of a foot fetish, which maybe that also to opportunities. 482 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: And but but of course, you know, we have a 483 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,959 Speaker 1: we have a lot of law enforcement that listens to 484 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: this show. It has written into us before about um 485 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: corruption in a police force or in in a military organization. 486 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: I think at a certain point, you know, there's a 487 00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: calculation that comes with power and with opportunity, and and 488 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: people who haven't seen the wire. I know everyone gets 489 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: tired of people trying to proselytize for the wire, but 490 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: it does, it does provide a very good look at 491 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,959 Speaker 1: the internal political machinations. It's not you know, it's not 492 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: necessarily when we say corruption or cover up, we're not 493 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: necessarily saying you know, um, we're not saying that Scott Benjamin, 494 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: Lieutenant Scott Benjamin is a police officer just so he 495 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: can continue poisoning the elderly and ambulances. Uh, but we're 496 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: saying that that's a plot of a bad like procedural 497 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: TV show. Right, But what is much more right, what's 498 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: much more possible, is that someone wants their record to 499 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: look good to affect their chances of promotion. Well yeah, 500 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: and so get to get back to this case. Actually, 501 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: there there's a really good example of of of that 502 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: very kind of common every day uh political slash law 503 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: enforcement corruption, and that happened in this case that led 504 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: to it being unsolved. So, um, this the victims again. 505 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: You know, let me just remind you there were nine 506 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: to eleven women. Uh, they were all strangled. That was 507 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: the only kind of common thing in the m O. 508 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: But none of the research that I could find listed 509 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: any methods of murder beyond that, like whether they were 510 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: strangled with a rope or with hands or there was 511 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: just not a lot listed, which made me think maybe 512 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: the police never released the details they're holding onto that information. 513 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: And again, remember this happened a pretty short span of time, 514 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: so they might not have wanted to release the information. 515 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: Well yeah, so anyone calling in wouldn't they would have 516 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: to have uh or if anyone had details beyond some 517 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: of the very very general perhaps that's someone you could 518 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: look at exactly. Yeah, and so so okay, so they're strangled. 519 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: They were always found nude, abandoned on the side of 520 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: the highway. Uh. And two of the victims bodies were 521 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: never found. So that's why there's that nine to eleven thing. 522 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: They don't know what happened to these two particular women, 523 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: but there's some really fascinating leads in this case. Um, again, 524 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: it's unsolved, but this is what we know. There's a 525 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: guy named Tony de Grazia in the area who had 526 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: a history of sexual assault with prostitutes, specifically that you know, 527 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: kind of area culture of prostitution and drug use that 528 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,959 Speaker 1: was in in New Bedford at the time. However, there 529 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: was no evidence to link him to this case, and 530 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: in fact, he committed suicide in if I remember correctly 531 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: from the research. One of his relatives speculated that the 532 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: suicide was probably brought on by all the attention that 533 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: was focused on him from this case. So there, you know, 534 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: there's no evidence to link him to this other than 535 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: that he just happened to be a guy who you know, 536 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: hung around, I guess, with that crowd, but also was 537 00:31:54,800 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: a known sort of violent offender. Um. The other possible theory, 538 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: and this is something that I ran by my friend 539 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: who lived in New Bedford at the time, is that 540 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: the killer was also a killer that was known as 541 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: the Lisbon Ripper that was operating in Portugal in the 542 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. Uh. And the reason for this is that 543 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: New Bedford has a very large Portuguese community. So the 544 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: idea was that this guy could potentially have been flying 545 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: back and forth between the continents and performing various murders 546 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: and then you know, uh, I guess the cooling down 547 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: period would be him going to a you know, a 548 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: different location and that that that's one speculation as to 549 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: why they were never able to get him. This is 550 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: the deep one, and this is the one that has 551 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: a little bit of corruption connected to it. The other 552 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: guy was a lawyer in the area named Kenneth Ponte, 553 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: and he was actually indicted for the murder of one 554 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: of the women that was involved, you know, one of 555 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: one of the victims. Uh, but his case ended up 556 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: being dropped due to a lack of evidence again uh, 557 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: And both the investigator is in the case and the 558 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: surviving family members of the victims say that they don't 559 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: think it was him. However, here's how things played out 560 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: with this guy over the course of a couple of years, 561 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: um Ponte. The reason why he was a suspect was 562 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: that he also knew some of the victims and he 563 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: actually served as one of their attorneys. However, he had 564 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: uh personal feud going on with the local district attorney, 565 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: a guy named Ron Pena. Uh. The way that I 566 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: saw in in several reports that I read for this episode. Uh, 567 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: Apparently it stemmed from the fact that their mothers were 568 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: neighbors and they didn't like each other, and therefore there's 569 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: just this kind of family feud that had gone back 570 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: for a while. So Ron Peena is the district attorney. 571 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: He gets a special grand jury to indict Ponti. So 572 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: that's where the indictment came down from. When Pena loses 573 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: his election as a special prosecutor, they have to drop 574 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: the charges because there's no evidence. Wow. Again Pante. You know, 575 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: there's no evidence, there's nothing. They can't actually connect him 576 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: to the case. Um. And there were also like a 577 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: lot of reports about jurisdictional issues between the state police, 578 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: local police, and the FEDS. So again that's another thing 579 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: that we see in entertainment crime stories all the time, right, 580 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: But as far as the research for this case, that 581 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,760 Speaker 1: was an actual thing that held up them being able 582 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: to really nail down evidence in this case. And at 583 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: this point, the murders remain unsolved. They do. Uh. In fact, Ponte, 584 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: while having drug problems and being disbarred and was even 585 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 1: later caught shoplifting. Uh, you know, they were never able 586 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,919 Speaker 1: to find anything. In two thousand seven, the police went 587 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: back to his old house and dug up the front 588 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: of the house because they thought there might be something there. 589 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: They didn't find anything, and he died in two thousand 590 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,720 Speaker 1: and ten. So that's all the new Bedford Police, Massachusetts 591 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: State Police, and the FBI had for this case, you know, 592 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: at least as far as we know publicly. Obviously, you know, 593 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: as we were saying earlier, they must have had other 594 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: information that they just didn't release. But uh, this person 595 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: remains uncaught. Whoever committed these crimes. You know what's fascinating 596 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: about that is it shows another it shows another possibility 597 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: that I first read into with the Zodiac killings, I 598 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: was not involved. Just to go on record there, I'm 599 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: not old enough. We believe you, thanks Smith. Uh So, 600 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: the uh the one of the suppositions was that the 601 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: murders stopped because the one of the suspects was incarcerated 602 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: on a different charge and died in prison or died 603 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: somewhere else as a result. So it is it is 604 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 1: completely possible, you know that, Um, well, obviously not Ponte, 605 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: probably not. Yeah, I mean there was like a good 606 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: twenty years in between the end of these murders and 607 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: him passing away where no, he was killed in the area. 608 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that, you know, maybe there was potential 609 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: evidence that could have connected him to the case, but 610 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: they may never found it. And let's look at another 611 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: another one that is a little bit different because this 612 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 1: person was actually apprehended and did go to jail. But wait, 613 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 1: that's not the end of the story, ladies and gentlemen. 614 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about Pedro Alonso Lopez, also known 615 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: as the Monster of the Andes. He is suspected of 616 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 1: killing more than three hundred and fifty girls, primarily in Ecuador, 617 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: Columbia and Peru. Originally, authorities didn't believe his story. Three 618 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,919 Speaker 1: fifty dead children is a lot. Well, yeah, because he 619 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,720 Speaker 1: was in jail for something else, right, And then he 620 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: was talking to an officer who was like dressed up 621 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: as an inmate and basically boasting about all of these 622 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 1: girls that he had killed. And he was naming off 623 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 1: like hundred in Peru, over here in Columbia, hundred in Ecuador. 624 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: And they, you know, if you hear a grandiose story 625 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 1: like that, that is awful. I don't think you believe 626 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: him on the first account. And they didn't either until 627 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 1: he led police to a mass grave of fifty three 628 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: victims in Ecuador, all girls between nine to twelve years old. 629 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: And here's a strange thing Alonso Lopez though, was when 630 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: he was prisoner, wasn't his first brush with a judicial system. 631 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:36,800 Speaker 1: When indigenous villagers in Peru caught him trying to abduct children, 632 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: they buried him up to his neck. Uh, And we're 633 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: pouring honey on him and preparing to have him die 634 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: by having ants consume him until western white missionaries um 635 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: prevented this horrible page in practice and said that she 636 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: would take him to the cops. She drove him to 637 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,720 Speaker 1: the border and let him go. That was his first 638 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: That was his first brush with the consequences of these 639 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: deranged actions. So here's his time frame. He was first 640 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: active sixty nine through nineteen eighty or so, and while 641 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: he was in prison UH it was deemed too costly 642 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 1: and complicated to have him on trial in both Columbia 643 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 1: and Peru. So Peruvian authorities in August of support him 644 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: to Columbia, where he was found insane and held in 645 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: a mental ward until nineteen when he was released to 646 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: the public. The last that we have heard of Pedro 647 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: Alnso Lopez is in two thousand to an interpool released 648 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 1: an advisory for his arrest in on suspicion of another 649 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:54,760 Speaker 1: another homicide, and he has again primarily killed female children 650 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: also male um. As of two thousand and fifteen, the 651 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,320 Speaker 1: year we were recorded, this Lopez would be sixty seven 652 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: years old if he remains alive. And again it sounds 653 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: this guy is a little bit unique because you can 654 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: read purported in a purported interview with him, which I 655 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: wasn't able to verify to the my ideal standards. But 656 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 1: it seems pretty it seems pretty legitimate, and just you know, 657 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: I'm trying to I'm trying to verify that stuff as 658 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: well right now, and I agree I can't verify it. 659 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 1: But the way the way some of their the things 660 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: are written, and then knowing what we already know about him, 661 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 1: I would agree with you, right probably in the interviewer 662 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: is real. Absolutely, But so here's the thing that this 663 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,800 Speaker 1: leaves us with. He's sixty seven years old. He wouldn't 664 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: He most likely is not going to be in the 665 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 1: best of shape. Not everyone is Sean Connery, right, so 666 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,799 Speaker 1: he we this would make us think that maybe he 667 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 1: is too frail, right, we hope, we hope. Um, I 668 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: would hope that he is dead. But part of the 669 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: reason I hope that is remembering that his victims are children, 670 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: and that many that were confirmed, and then all the 671 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: other ones, the hundreds that are suspected, right, often poor, 672 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: often street kids, often um in rural areas, not part 673 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: of mainstream society. That so again it's like a population 674 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: that's sort of at the limits and uh ignored. Right, 675 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,760 Speaker 1: that's where we see this succeeding. So let's let's look 676 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: at another case, because that's that's the other thing, folks, 677 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: if you haven't seen the video yet, there are numerous 678 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: cases of unconst real killers. We just picked a few. Yeah, 679 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: we're only talking about like four or five today. And 680 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: I think when we were looking at the general research, 681 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: there were at least just in a cursorysearch, like serial 682 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: killers that are pretty widely known, and the number of 683 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: missing persons that perhaps aren't even attached to any known 684 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,760 Speaker 1: killer are there. There are a crazy amount of evil 685 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: that go missing every year. Well, for the this next one, 686 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: I again, I chose one from you know, the nick 687 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: of the Woods that I grew up in, which is uh, 688 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: you know, I'm from Massachusetts. I went to school in 689 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: New Hampshire. Uh. This is the Connecticut River Valley serial killer. 690 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: Connecticut River Valley is uh this border area between western 691 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,800 Speaker 1: New Hampshire and Vermont. Uh. And this killer basically stocked 692 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: that area in the nineteen eighties and six women were killed, uh, 693 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,800 Speaker 1: stabbed mostly, and their bodies were dumped in the woods 694 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: near an area called the Sugar River. The time frame 695 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: for this is much wider than in the previous case 696 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,239 Speaker 1: that I talked about. So that was one summer. This 697 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: took place over ten years from ninety night. The first 698 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: bodies actually turned up in eighty five, but they believed 699 00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: that he started in seventy eight based on know like 700 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:05,919 Speaker 1: decompin decomposition uh in that they've found at least five 701 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:10,320 Speaker 1: of the women by seven. So uh. The m O 702 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 1: of this particular killer was that he would find isolated women. Again, 703 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,839 Speaker 1: I'm using he as sort of just a general gender term, 704 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,359 Speaker 1: not knowing who it is. Uh, but he would find 705 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:26,399 Speaker 1: these isolated women, usually hitch hood hiking or alone at night. 706 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 1: Three of the victims were nurses, so they were traveling 707 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 1: at a late night schedules because of their shifts. Uh. 708 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 1: He would stab them in the throat and then repeatedly 709 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: stabbed them across their bodies and then took the bodies 710 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,759 Speaker 1: and dumped them into this particular area in the woods. Sometimes, 711 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: Uh he'd use like a black tarp sort of like 712 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: kind of try to hide the bodies a little bit. Okay, 713 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: So there are several victims leading up to August six, 714 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: when a woman named Jane Barowski, who was pregnant at 715 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: the time, was at a convenience store late at night 716 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 1: in the area. Um. The reason again I should have 717 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,399 Speaker 1: probably mentioned this earlier. One of the reasons why I'm 718 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,080 Speaker 1: referring to him as a hymn is because of this 719 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: particular incident, she identified her attacker as male. Uh. He 720 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: attacked her, stabbed her twenty three to twenty seven times. Uh, 721 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 1: and she basically did everything she could just you know, 722 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:24,279 Speaker 1: kind of protect her baby, so UM, to make sure 723 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 1: that that area of her body wasn't wasn't hit. Um. 724 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 1: By playing dead, she was able to survive and basically, um, 725 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,760 Speaker 1: crawl and then like I think, walk to the nearest 726 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 1: location where I think she knew somebody local and get help. 727 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 1: And I think she might have even driven with that 728 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:51,200 Speaker 1: many wounds. UM. So there's a couple of things here 729 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 1: that are they're interesting, right. So she survives, so we 730 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: know that it's a it's a male killer. We know 731 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,320 Speaker 1: a little bit about how he attacked her, but UM, 732 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: he didn't take her body like the others, which is 733 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: curious to me because you know, like I said earlier, 734 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,160 Speaker 1: the m O was he stabbed them and he would 735 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,719 Speaker 1: take them, bring them to the woods, dumped them, but 736 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,400 Speaker 1: he left her there. So if she was playing dead, 737 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 1: was he going to come back later or something, or 738 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 1: maybe it was because of the pregnancy. Nobody knows. And 739 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,319 Speaker 1: how how could you ever prove that this is the 740 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,879 Speaker 1: same guy, right, exactly right? And in fact, there are 741 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,839 Speaker 1: four other cases that may be linked, but there's no 742 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 1: proof connecting them. Right. So again there's some fascinating leads 743 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,359 Speaker 1: in this case, but but nothing nailed down. No one 744 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 1: has ever been apprehended for this. The first lead is 745 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,880 Speaker 1: a guy named Michael Nikolau, and he was a Vietnam 746 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,800 Speaker 1: veteran who actually in two thousand five killed his wife 747 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: and his stepdaughter and then himself in West Tampa, Florida. UM. 748 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,440 Speaker 1: He had previously been linked to the case by a 749 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 1: private investigator who had been looking for his ex wife, 750 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 1: a woman named Michelle Ashley. She basically in night she 751 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,319 Speaker 1: disappeared from the Holyoake, Massachusetts area, which is kind of 752 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: close to that relatively speaking, close to that Connecticut River 753 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 1: Valley arena. Uh. And so when this private investigator contacted him, 754 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 1: he said, oh, I don't know where she is, but 755 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,040 Speaker 1: she ran off with a drug dealer and left me 756 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,960 Speaker 1: to raise our two kids alone. So, uh, his ex 757 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:36,360 Speaker 1: wife's missing, right, Um, she looks into him the private investigator, 758 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: I mean, and she finds out that while he was 759 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 1: in the Vietnam War, people who were in his platoon 760 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: reported that he would go human hunting with a knife. Uh. 761 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:52,439 Speaker 1: And he would go and basically killed civilians during the war. Uh. 762 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 1: And she believes that this is connected to this case 763 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,680 Speaker 1: because there was a Millis military style association with the 764 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,680 Speaker 1: way the victims next were cut, so with these stabbings 765 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,719 Speaker 1: and knives, right, so that this was like again like 766 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,239 Speaker 1: so we were talking earlier about how when you're in 767 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: a career that sort of puts you in a position 768 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 1: in which you're coming into contact with dead bodies are 769 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,840 Speaker 1: in this case killing people. Uh that you know, it 770 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: provides the opportunity to sort of bring about this disorder, 771 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,919 Speaker 1: if that's what you want to call this, this type 772 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 1: of serial killing. Uh. So, so it's possible, you know, 773 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 1: based on this private investigator's theory that if Nikolau was 774 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,839 Speaker 1: the one who did it, that he kind of got 775 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,279 Speaker 1: into this during Vietnam and then brought it back with 776 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:42,440 Speaker 1: him to the States afterwards. The thing that is interesting 777 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:46,239 Speaker 1: to me is that, uh, if his m O was stabbing, 778 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,759 Speaker 1: remember that when he you know, had his meltdown in 779 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,520 Speaker 1: two thousand five and killed his family and himself. He 780 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:57,880 Speaker 1: did it by shooting them, so uh, you know who knows. Uh, 781 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:05,680 Speaker 1: but it's curious, you know, discrepancy there. Uh. However, Jane Boroski, 782 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,120 Speaker 1: that woman I was talking about earlier, the one who 783 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,319 Speaker 1: was pregnant and survived, she identified him as the man 784 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 1: who attacked her. This is much later, but she looked 785 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,160 Speaker 1: at you know, photos of him and after he was 786 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,200 Speaker 1: was gone and said, yeah, that's the guy. So she 787 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,960 Speaker 1: identified it as Nicolaon. That's pretty strong. But wait, it 788 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:31,319 Speaker 1: gets weirder. Uh, here's where it gets crazy. Go for it, 789 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:37,080 Speaker 1: all right. Guy named Gary Westover is from the area 790 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 1: and uh he had been paralyzed from a diving accident 791 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,880 Speaker 1: and he at the time thought he was dying. So 792 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 1: he called upon his uncle, who was a former sheriff's 793 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:54,319 Speaker 1: deputy in Grafton County, New Hampshire, again part of this area. Yeah, 794 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:59,000 Speaker 1: on his deathbed, uh, and he tells his uncle. He says, Okay, 795 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,440 Speaker 1: a couple of years pre is to this, three of 796 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,440 Speaker 1: my friends picked me up and they wanted to go 797 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,880 Speaker 1: partying in a van and I kind of joked about 798 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,279 Speaker 1: this with you guys, because you know, being living in 799 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,040 Speaker 1: New Hampshire for a long period of time, that's kind 800 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,239 Speaker 1: of a thing you do, like like you just get 801 00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,520 Speaker 1: into somebody's car or van and you know, get some 802 00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,520 Speaker 1: get some drinks, some booth, some other things. Natty's and 803 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,920 Speaker 1: Fatty's was a common term when I was going to 804 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:26,960 Speaker 1: high school up there. The party in a van is 805 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,359 Speaker 1: the thing people do. I mean, go somewhere in it. 806 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,240 Speaker 1: It's not unusual. Yeah, exactly, Like I don't want listeners 807 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,920 Speaker 1: to think like, oh, that's weird, like just driving around 808 00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,839 Speaker 1: in a van with k Yeah, let me tell you 809 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,719 Speaker 1: I've I've done it, so, but I haven't done this 810 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:48,520 Speaker 1: next part. Uh. So, so Gary west Over says, Okay, 811 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,440 Speaker 1: my friends picked me up, we're getting this van. Uh. 812 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,680 Speaker 1: And then they abduct a woman and they killed her 813 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,920 Speaker 1: and dumped her body off on a back road. And 814 00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,200 Speaker 1: he said, you know, he didn't participate, but that he 815 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,080 Speaker 1: was forced to be there. Uh and again remember reason 816 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,919 Speaker 1: a wheelchair. So uh. He basically said, look, I feel 817 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:08,759 Speaker 1: really bad about this. I want to tell the truth 818 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,680 Speaker 1: and want you to know about this to his uncle. 819 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:15,000 Speaker 1: But he he had previously been scared to say anything 820 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:16,879 Speaker 1: because they said, well, look, you know, we can get 821 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,680 Speaker 1: you any time, So if you say anything, we you know, 822 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,879 Speaker 1: you're an easy target. And and uh, the other thing 823 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,920 Speaker 1: that's kind of interesting about this is that private investigator 824 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:32,400 Speaker 1: who had looked into nickel Out previously also speculated that 825 00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,759 Speaker 1: it's possible that Gary Westover was used as bait for 826 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,880 Speaker 1: one of these killings. And then because it was particularly 827 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:41,880 Speaker 1: snowy there in the middle of a snowstorm when this 828 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,640 Speaker 1: Vaan party was going on, they placed him in his wheelchair. 829 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: This is her speculation. Mind you, there's no evidence for this, 830 00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,880 Speaker 1: but they placed him in his wheelchair on the side 831 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,160 Speaker 1: of the road so that when one of the women 832 00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,719 Speaker 1: drove by, she pulled over to help him to find 833 00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 1: out what was wrong, and that's when they killed her. 834 00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:05,960 Speaker 1: Good lord, yeah, calculated. So Uh. The private investigator comes 835 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,640 Speaker 1: into this again though, because she says, well, it's possible 836 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: that that Michael Nikolau guy was one of these three friends, uh, 837 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,279 Speaker 1: and that it's possible that he and Gary west Over 838 00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,640 Speaker 1: knew each other because they're both veterans and they might 839 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:23,839 Speaker 1: have met through the local veterans affair hospital. Uh. And 840 00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,560 Speaker 1: so if that's true and Gary west Over story is true, 841 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,640 Speaker 1: and even if Nicolau was the killer, then that means 842 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,640 Speaker 1: that there's two other guys out there that were accomplices 843 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:39,200 Speaker 1: or involved in these murders somehow, and reportedly, you know, 844 00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,439 Speaker 1: police have access to the names. Of course, his uncle 845 00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,680 Speaker 1: took this information forward and became part of the case. 846 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,759 Speaker 1: But sure you know, no arrests have been made as 847 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:52,680 Speaker 1: of our recording today. Right. Wow, So before we get 848 00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,239 Speaker 1: to some statistics, we have one more case and we'll 849 00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,600 Speaker 1: we'll walk through this one kind of quickly. Here. This 850 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,840 Speaker 1: is the Long Island serial killer and unidentified assailm believed 851 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,400 Speaker 1: to have killed anywhere from ten to seventeen or more 852 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:12,000 Speaker 1: people over the course of twenty plus years around the 853 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,880 Speaker 1: Ocean Parkway area. Time frame here would be at least 854 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:21,439 Speaker 1: nine six to two thousand, nine two thousand thirteen. So 855 00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,239 Speaker 1: what kind of victims are we talking about here? It's 856 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,400 Speaker 1: kind of similar to a few of the other cases 857 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:30,000 Speaker 1: that we've already looked at, where these are primarily sex workers, 858 00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,919 Speaker 1: or at least believed to be sex workers, who were 859 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,720 Speaker 1: killed at some location then put into in this case 860 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,480 Speaker 1: a burlap sack and then dumped along the parkway. And 861 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,600 Speaker 1: that's particularly at Gilgo Beach in this area. So that 862 00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,520 Speaker 1: is so similar to the new Bedford Highway guy. And 863 00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,320 Speaker 1: it's not that far. It's not at all Long Island 864 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,560 Speaker 1: is not I mean like maybe five hours at the most. 865 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:56,960 Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm not saying that's the same guy. 866 00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:01,280 Speaker 1: But there's also sort of like the idea that it uh, 867 00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,000 Speaker 1: this this motive, this is this uh, the m o 868 00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,160 Speaker 1: could have been spread through the media, you know, I 869 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,319 Speaker 1: mean this when they started. So this happened like just 870 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,760 Speaker 1: about I don't know, ten years after and it continued 871 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:17,839 Speaker 1: until almost today. I mean it's close, right, we don't 872 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,359 Speaker 1: know when it ended too well. Yeah, that so the 873 00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,279 Speaker 1: ones that we know of that far. Yeah, and there 874 00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,040 Speaker 1: were some anomalous things there as well. There was a 875 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,840 Speaker 1: man of the body of a man and a toddler discovered. 876 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,480 Speaker 1: So they went into profiling, which, as we know, can 877 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,799 Speaker 1: be a dangerous game at times. And don't get me wrong, 878 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:41,680 Speaker 1: profilers in real life are doing fantastic and vital work. 879 00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:45,839 Speaker 1: Oh yes, um. But I think it's also we we 880 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:50,520 Speaker 1: talked about this off air, folks. Every so often something 881 00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:54,719 Speaker 1: comes out about quantum mechanics and you can hear everybody 882 00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,920 Speaker 1: roll roll their eyes you can literally hear eyes rolling 883 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,359 Speaker 1: in their sockets at our office because quantum mechanics. It's 884 00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,759 Speaker 1: it's one of the most misunderstood things. I think a 885 00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,839 Speaker 1: popular culture and profilers would be up in the top 886 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,520 Speaker 1: ten what they actually do and how they do it. 887 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,680 Speaker 1: But here's a lot of I think forensic work. Oh yeah, yeah, 888 00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:19,359 Speaker 1: that's true. Oh no spoilers, but it's true. Uh, so 889 00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,920 Speaker 1: we have this, we have this look from a profile 890 00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:27,719 Speaker 1: with all those caveats. Uh. The authorities surmised that this 891 00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:33,400 Speaker 1: killer is a male and is financially comfortable, obviously owns 892 00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:37,440 Speaker 1: an auto. It's transport victims, and could have a job 893 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,360 Speaker 1: where he has access to burlap sacks, maybe a center 894 00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,080 Speaker 1: and nursery. I think it's also possible that he could 895 00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,560 Speaker 1: just be buying them. The big thing is they believe 896 00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,800 Speaker 1: he's familiar with police methods, possibly working in law enforcement 897 00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:56,200 Speaker 1: or having friends maybe family members who do. And they're 898 00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,880 Speaker 1: also here's another thing. They're also certain that well fairly sir, 899 00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:04,080 Speaker 1: that he buried some of these bodies, restored them somewhere 900 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:09,200 Speaker 1: before he dumped them, meaning that it's possible. Adding onto 901 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,640 Speaker 1: your earlier statement about New Bedford, it's possible that he 902 00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:18,640 Speaker 1: is visiting the area seasonally, so it gives us some questions, right, 903 00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:22,480 Speaker 1: could it be abducting his victims. We'll see a note 904 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,800 Speaker 1: here that says that these all these victims are sorry. 905 00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,960 Speaker 1: The first four victims disappeared between Memorial Day and Labor Day. Yes, 906 00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,520 Speaker 1: that's almost exactly the same as the New Bedford situation. 907 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:36,960 Speaker 1: Oh wow, it was very it was it was a 908 00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:41,960 Speaker 1: summer spree. Well okay, I'm using the term spree summer 909 00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,440 Speaker 1: serial killer. So you know, I just want to say 910 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,560 Speaker 1: another thing that was interesting. A couple of the a 911 00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:53,279 Speaker 1: couple of the victims were prostitutes who are advertising on Craigslist, 912 00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,439 Speaker 1: who were advertising their services. So again that's someone who 913 00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,280 Speaker 1: was perhaps not immediately in the area, that could find 914 00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:03,000 Speaker 1: someone who was in that location and meet up with 915 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:06,239 Speaker 1: them through the Craigslist meet up. I don't know, this 916 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,520 Speaker 1: is all that's a good I mean, it's disturbing either way. Like, 917 00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's fun to play armchair detective and and 918 00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,120 Speaker 1: try to find some kind of connections, but it's also 919 00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,560 Speaker 1: just disturbing in the fact that they're so similar and 920 00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,839 Speaker 1: didn't happen all that far away from one another, and 921 00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,239 Speaker 1: both are still unsolved. Yeah, and didn't happen that far 922 00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:27,120 Speaker 1: away from each other really in space or time, so 923 00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,080 Speaker 1: the UM and I think that's a very good catch 924 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,080 Speaker 1: about the timing of the murders. So we do have 925 00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:35,880 Speaker 1: some leads. There's been a lot of speculation in the 926 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:41,520 Speaker 1: media about this identity of this killer. UM. The street 927 00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,200 Speaker 1: name for this killer would be unsub not what you 928 00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,480 Speaker 1: do when you don't like a YouTube channel, but as 929 00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,520 Speaker 1: a as a portmanteau for unknown subject. And they believe 930 00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,040 Speaker 1: again he's most likely a male, specifically a white male. 931 00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:56,920 Speaker 1: I don't know how they knew that part in his 932 00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,440 Speaker 1: twenties the forties, clearly familiar with this offshore of Long Island. 933 00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:07,560 Speaker 1: But um, there's an interesting case by or an interesting 934 00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,040 Speaker 1: article rather by a fellow named Dr Scott Bond, writing 935 00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:15,200 Speaker 1: for Psychology Today. Bond said he believes the killer may 936 00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:20,000 Speaker 1: have relocated or become dormant. Uh And we'll talk about 937 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,600 Speaker 1: dormancy in a second. But he does believe the killer 938 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,359 Speaker 1: resided in New York City at one point because there 939 00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:29,360 Speaker 1: was a series of phone calls that the killer made 940 00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:35,640 Speaker 1: he made after he abducted and murdered UM. A woman 941 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:40,800 Speaker 1: named Melissa Barthelomy. Uh. He made seven phone calls using 942 00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,440 Speaker 1: her phone over a six week period in oh nine 943 00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:48,040 Speaker 1: to the sister to Melissa's sister, and these were taunting her, 944 00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,800 Speaker 1: saying horrible things about the victim, and the phone calls 945 00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:57,600 Speaker 1: could be traced roughly the Manhattan area. It's so close. Yeah. Yeah, 946 00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,040 Speaker 1: that's one of those things that if you're in the 947 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,759 Speaker 1: law enforcement looking to find this guy, you're like, oh 948 00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:05,960 Speaker 1: my gosh, almost got him. And again, sorry, this sounds 949 00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,440 Speaker 1: like something like that you would see on like a 950 00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,040 Speaker 1: TV show like The Following or something like that, right, 951 00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,919 Speaker 1: but this is this is real, Like that this guy 952 00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,320 Speaker 1: killed a woman's sister and then called her repeatedly from 953 00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:22,880 Speaker 1: her own phone. It's haunting. So yeah, and these are 954 00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:28,200 Speaker 1: just four examples of the Long Island serial killer is 955 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:33,200 Speaker 1: currently one of the I guess most recent right, But 956 00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:39,200 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that any of these perpetrators fit the 957 00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,360 Speaker 1: same profile. That doesn't mean that any of them are 958 00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:49,240 Speaker 1: necessarily deceased. So if you if you look at look 959 00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,320 Speaker 1: at what the FBI says about it, they will say 960 00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:55,080 Speaker 1: that serial killers are among us. There is no set profile. 961 00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,120 Speaker 1: There's an interesting thing that we've talked about off air 962 00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:03,920 Speaker 1: I believe, which was the Highway serial Killing initiative. The 963 00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,880 Speaker 1: FBI started to map this out, and one thing we 964 00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,720 Speaker 1: talked about in Highway A Tears was that these sorts 965 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:15,200 Speaker 1: of murders of again people in the fringes of society, right, prostitutes, 966 00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:21,360 Speaker 1: drug addicts, hitchhikers, these people are these people are prey. 967 00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:25,760 Speaker 1: And when when the FBI started mapping this, they found 968 00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:30,400 Speaker 1: within five cases that they could add to their database, 969 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:36,840 Speaker 1: and they started to wonder if there were truckers that 970 00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:40,360 Speaker 1: we're using the opportunity again to the excellent point made 971 00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:47,320 Speaker 1: earlier to become serial murderers. And furthermore, if these criminals 972 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,840 Speaker 1: were hunting impacts essentially, well, I mean that goes back 973 00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:55,880 Speaker 1: to the was it Gary west Over claim about that 974 00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,560 Speaker 1: for well, you know, he said that he wasn't actively 975 00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,440 Speaker 1: taking part. And if the three guys were basically in 976 00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:06,360 Speaker 1: a driving around a van together in New Hampshire stalking women, right, 977 00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:12,000 Speaker 1: and it's true that which is contrary. I'd like to say, 978 00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:17,000 Speaker 1: it's very contrary to our popularized idea of serial killers. Yeah, 979 00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,880 Speaker 1: exactly right. And there's a there's a conservative estimate that 980 00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,440 Speaker 1: comes from pelone name John Douglas, a former chief of 981 00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:27,040 Speaker 1: the FBI's Elite Serial Crime Unit and the author of 982 00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:30,400 Speaker 1: a book called mind Hunter Uh. He says that at 983 00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,520 Speaker 1: his conservative estimate, there are between thirty five and fifty 984 00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:37,800 Speaker 1: active serial killers in the US at any given time, 985 00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,360 Speaker 1: and because they have no profile, because they could be 986 00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,960 Speaker 1: the person you walk past on your way from the 987 00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,640 Speaker 1: gas pump to the cashier, because they could be one 988 00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,520 Speaker 1: of the six people with you in an elevator. Because 989 00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:58,640 Speaker 1: of this shut your mouth, your mouth, it's horrifying. Well, 990 00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,400 Speaker 1: it's it's it's sort of and it's a little alarmous too, 991 01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,120 Speaker 1: because if we consider that there are what around three 992 01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:09,320 Speaker 1: thirty million people in the US, and then maybe sixty 993 01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,160 Speaker 1: of those, it's a very small percent. But he also 994 01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:14,480 Speaker 1: said it was a conservative estimate, and it makes me 995 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,400 Speaker 1: think this is entirely supposition. But it makes me think 996 01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,240 Speaker 1: if these stereotypes of us who really killers are impeding 997 01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,600 Speaker 1: apprehending them, because I'm sure, even now, in living in 998 01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,040 Speaker 1: a surveillance state, I'm sure it would be quite possible 999 01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,480 Speaker 1: for someone to be, you know, a normal, average person 1000 01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,080 Speaker 1: and every two years they take a two week vacation 1001 01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,400 Speaker 1: somewhere they've never been because they like to see the sites. 1002 01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:44,480 Speaker 1: Then a homeless person goes missing that over that same stretch, 1003 01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,440 Speaker 1: and then they never go to you know, Aruba or 1004 01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:52,440 Speaker 1: Vegas again. So this is a thing that we often 1005 01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:54,960 Speaker 1: run into here at how stuff works on all of 1006 01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:59,720 Speaker 1: the shows really is I find that the various things 1007 01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:03,480 Speaker 1: that we research here, I end up with this perspective 1008 01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:07,320 Speaker 1: of well, from our current vantage point here in we 1009 01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:10,919 Speaker 1: can look back on such and such discovery and go, oh, 1010 01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:15,880 Speaker 1: isn't it so silly that they didn't understand this disease 1011 01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:19,560 Speaker 1: or this biological factor a hundred years ago or whatever. 1012 01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,000 Speaker 1: I really feel like the more we look into this, 1013 01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:28,400 Speaker 1: that serial killer psychology is something that we don't quite 1014 01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,480 Speaker 1: understand that well right now, and that in you know, 1015 01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:33,680 Speaker 1: in the future, people are going to look back and say, Wow, 1016 01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:36,520 Speaker 1: they're really in the dark about this, and then just 1017 01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:41,400 Speaker 1: making lots of TV shows and movies kind of celebrating it. Yeah, 1018 01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,920 Speaker 1: I I as if they understood it. There's this glorification 1019 01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,440 Speaker 1: in some ways that. Don't get me wrong, that's some 1020 01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:49,240 Speaker 1: of my favorite stuff. I mean, like I said earlier, 1021 01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:51,080 Speaker 1: like I'm a huge fan of the Hannibal TV show. 1022 01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:55,360 Speaker 1: You guys know, I love Hill TV show Millennium with 1023 01:01:55,640 --> 01:02:00,920 Speaker 1: Lance Henrickson. That's another like serial killer profile. H. But 1024 01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:04,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just bizarre when you think about it, 1025 01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:06,920 Speaker 1: how we sort of approached this thing. I guess it's 1026 01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:10,280 Speaker 1: sort of like our attempt as a culture to understand 1027 01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:13,640 Speaker 1: it and feel safe with it by finding it to 1028 01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,040 Speaker 1: a story. Well. Yeah, and it's also it gives you 1029 01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:19,520 Speaker 1: a tremendous feeling of relief when the bad guy in 1030 01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,600 Speaker 1: one of those gets caught right or almost gets caught, 1031 01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:26,880 Speaker 1: or just you know, I was watching the following yeah, 1032 01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:29,320 Speaker 1: and just all the times we're like, all right, well 1033 01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:32,440 Speaker 1: that was nice resolution. Oh no, he's back right exactly. 1034 01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:35,600 Speaker 1: One thing that I want to bring out to the 1035 01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:39,400 Speaker 1: audience and everyone else before before we get towards the 1036 01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:43,000 Speaker 1: end of the show is this, I almost said the 1037 01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:47,440 Speaker 1: following that poor choice of words is is this. We 1038 01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:52,080 Speaker 1: know that we live in a world of predictive data, right, 1039 01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:57,800 Speaker 1: big data, and it is possible now to gain an 1040 01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:04,960 Speaker 1: increasingly sophisticated did all a prognostication really of an individual's 1041 01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:08,880 Speaker 1: future actions based on what they're doing? Would it be 1042 01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:12,720 Speaker 1: possible too? I mean, I know I'm proposing this idea 1043 01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,920 Speaker 1: of pre crime essentially. Right, Yeah, you're talking about Minority 1044 01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:19,040 Speaker 1: Report and talking about something like minority that's kind of 1045 01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,320 Speaker 1: already happening. Now, it's just what you're going to buy 1046 01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:26,240 Speaker 1: in the next six to twelve months. As I've found 1047 01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:29,439 Speaker 1: out after having a baby. Really, what happens just you're 1048 01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,360 Speaker 1: depending on what goes on your credit cards, depending on 1049 01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,960 Speaker 1: what I happened to purchase at let's say, Kroger. If 1050 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,000 Speaker 1: I end up using my Kroger Plus card, what happens. 1051 01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,640 Speaker 1: It tracks all of the information of what I'm buying, 1052 01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,400 Speaker 1: and then it sends that information to everybody else. Kroger 1053 01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,760 Speaker 1: sells that information. So on my television right before I 1054 01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:55,640 Speaker 1: canceled cable, every ad. Every ad was diapers or you know, 1055 01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:59,720 Speaker 1: something like depression medication. I'm not kidding you, it was. 1056 01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:02,600 Speaker 1: It was happening already. It was trying to understand what 1057 01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:05,960 Speaker 1: my life was like. Depression medication. Yeah, because that's why 1058 01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:09,600 Speaker 1: Hulu keeps telling me to go to the gym. I'm 1059 01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:13,320 Speaker 1: completely serious, though. It really is trying to target me 1060 01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:15,960 Speaker 1: as it does everyone else. And when I say it, 1061 01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:20,400 Speaker 1: I mean big data essentially. All Right, I gotta I 1062 01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:22,560 Speaker 1: gotta short story. I gotta tell you, guys, because this 1063 01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,400 Speaker 1: is perfect for your audience. And this is anecdotal and 1064 01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:28,240 Speaker 1: I'm not going to name this person. I have a 1065 01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,280 Speaker 1: friend who has a PhD in computer science and has 1066 01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:35,120 Speaker 1: done freelance work for the d D before, and one 1067 01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:39,880 Speaker 1: of the projects that he was assigned to was predictive data, uh, 1068 01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:47,080 Speaker 1: basically trying to map out the probabilities of government employees 1069 01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:51,240 Speaker 1: breaking the rules. Are you allowed to tell us based 1070 01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,880 Speaker 1: on He's not allowed to tell you this, I'm allowed 1071 01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:59,400 Speaker 1: to tell uh. Basically the idea being that you know, 1072 01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:03,480 Speaker 1: based on uh, their actions within the network and how 1073 01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:06,880 Speaker 1: they're using you know, the computer system, are they going 1074 01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:10,920 Speaker 1: to go snowdon Yeah, essentially I could see that. I mean, 1075 01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,560 Speaker 1: I could see that being a necessary thing from their perspective. 1076 01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:19,160 Speaker 1: Oh sure, I understand it completely. Um, but it's possible. Yeah, 1077 01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,280 Speaker 1: it is possible. And often, you know, I'm sure we'll 1078 01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:24,560 Speaker 1: get a lot of letters from people were saying that 1079 01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:30,240 Speaker 1: often the idea of security is falsely, you know, is 1080 01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:33,600 Speaker 1: is marketed in an alarm is fashion to get people 1081 01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:36,720 Speaker 1: to sacrifice privacy. And I think that's I think that's 1082 01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:40,360 Speaker 1: absolutely true. Um. But then that leads us to a 1083 01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:45,000 Speaker 1: philosophical quandary, which is, directly, do we let fifty people 1084 01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:49,840 Speaker 1: go around killing people on the inner state because we 1085 01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:54,680 Speaker 1: don't want targeted advertising? I know, I know, I'm yeah, 1086 01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:58,200 Speaker 1: I'm clearly I'm swaying in that way. This is not 1087 01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,360 Speaker 1: this is not the way that I necessarily believe it. 1088 01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:05,040 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm playing bringing it back to al Pacino 1089 01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:07,400 Speaker 1: and bringing it back to al Pacino. We're talking off 1090 01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,720 Speaker 1: air about you can probably tell Christian I were both 1091 01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,280 Speaker 1: under the weather and we were thinking, Man, our voices 1092 01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:18,120 Speaker 1: are gonna be awesome in this show. Kevin Wait, speaking 1093 01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:21,640 Speaker 1: of speaking of awesome, do you guys hear that music? 1094 01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:25,840 Speaker 1: You hear that just means my having a stroke. You know, 1095 01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:27,200 Speaker 1: I kind of felt like I was having a struke 1096 01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:29,960 Speaker 1: the other day. I got a cavity filled for the 1097 01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,320 Speaker 1: very first time, and whole half of my face was 1098 01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:35,280 Speaker 1: non and it was very strange sensation. We made it 1099 01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:37,360 Speaker 1: through the fire ladies and gentlemen. It's a molder with 1100 01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:41,240 Speaker 1: a super producer. Uh Noel Brown. Noel, I'm not choosing 1101 01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:45,400 Speaker 1: a nickname for this episode because it feels you guys 1102 01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:47,560 Speaker 1: went a little dark with it. It got a little dark, 1103 01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:50,440 Speaker 1: got a little dark. Yeah, So what's on your mind? 1104 01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:52,160 Speaker 1: What do you think? Yeah, I don't need those kind 1105 01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:54,760 Speaker 1: of nicknames, been, I just don't need them. What's on 1106 01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:58,640 Speaker 1: my mind? Yeah? Yeah, I got a little I've still 1107 01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:01,360 Speaker 1: got this little chest cold thing. Everyone one. The weather's 1108 01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,640 Speaker 1: this crazy seasonal change. I always seem to get hit 1109 01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:06,680 Speaker 1: with something around this time except from that. Yeah, I 1110 01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:08,520 Speaker 1: know I have a gun. A guy with the baby 1111 01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:11,520 Speaker 1: is the only one who's healthy. Maybe there's an immune 1112 01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,000 Speaker 1: system thing that happened. Just wait till he starts school. 1113 01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:18,120 Speaker 1: Oh yes, and then exposed to all the other elements, 1114 01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:22,680 Speaker 1: the children's elements. You're sending your kids to school, you know, monster. 1115 01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:25,640 Speaker 1: I was thinking about it, but I don't know. What 1116 01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:29,920 Speaker 1: do you guys think? Okay, really fast, No, you don't 1117 01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:31,120 Speaker 1: have to get in this. You don't want to. But 1118 01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:35,760 Speaker 1: I'm really curious. Homeschooling Is that a thing? Ben? Guys? 1119 01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:39,320 Speaker 1: Should were you at all? And should we? It's definitely 1120 01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,040 Speaker 1: a thing. Yeah I was not, and I'm the wrong 1121 01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:44,600 Speaker 1: person to ask because I don't have kids and probably won't. 1122 01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:48,880 Speaker 1: But though you're so well adjusted, thanks, it's just because 1123 01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:52,280 Speaker 1: I went through the fire exactly. That's the way I feel, too. Okay, 1124 01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:54,920 Speaker 1: So I'll give you my perspective just briefly. My daughter 1125 01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:58,240 Speaker 1: is six years old. She went to Montessori school from 1126 01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:01,640 Speaker 1: like pre kge to just now and she loved it. It 1127 01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:03,480 Speaker 1: It was great. I really you know, if anyone doesn't know, 1128 01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,560 Speaker 1: mine story is sort of like a um all kids 1129 01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:08,760 Speaker 1: of different age groups are all in the same classroom together, 1130 01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:12,200 Speaker 1: and so there's this kind of like leadership involved where 1131 01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:13,960 Speaker 1: like the older kids sort of take the lead and 1132 01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:16,040 Speaker 1: said an example for the younger kids, and it's a 1133 01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:18,240 Speaker 1: great way to socialize kids and make them comfortable around 1134 01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:20,599 Speaker 1: in different situations and around different age groups of kids. 1135 01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:23,439 Speaker 1: Loved it worked great. I feel like it outlived it's usefulness. 1136 01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:25,000 Speaker 1: I feel like first grade she needs to be in 1137 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,360 Speaker 1: public school with the rest of the in the fray, 1138 01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:31,280 Speaker 1: you know, no more soft pedaling everything, and you know, 1139 01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:33,679 Speaker 1: I think it's time to throw her into the fire. 1140 01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,360 Speaker 1: And she's doing great. She loves it. She loves it. 1141 01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:39,120 Speaker 1: So this year she's starting this year first Well, you 1142 01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:41,200 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to keep me updated with that. So 1143 01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:43,280 Speaker 1: here's the deal, guys, this is what was going on 1144 01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:45,920 Speaker 1: in my world while I was at home editing the 1145 01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:48,640 Speaker 1: video that's coming out this weekend and the one they 1146 01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:52,200 Speaker 1: came out last week about serial killers. So you've got 1147 01:08:52,320 --> 01:08:54,439 Speaker 1: but see that it puts a nice bow on it. 1148 01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:56,400 Speaker 1: Though I try, I try to look at that stuff 1149 01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:58,720 Speaker 1: in a positive way, you know. Yeah. My positive way was, 1150 01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:00,960 Speaker 1: how do I make this kid not a serial killer? 1151 01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:06,479 Speaker 1: Like we're gonna make this kid the opposite I mean 1152 01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:08,799 Speaker 1: is it's like a mix of nature and nurture. Right. 1153 01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:10,800 Speaker 1: That's sort of what you guys have to takeaway, is Yeah, 1154 01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:13,000 Speaker 1: a lot of this talk. Yeah, I mean I usually 1155 01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:16,120 Speaker 1: think that based on the research, absolutely for all of 1156 01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:18,439 Speaker 1: these things. Yeah, they just don't don't lock your kid 1157 01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,960 Speaker 1: in the basement. Okay, good, don't have one of those yet. 1158 01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:28,320 Speaker 1: It's uh, it is theoretically possible, not plausible nor ethical 1159 01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:33,400 Speaker 1: or humane, but it is possible to read someone who 1160 01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:38,280 Speaker 1: would be genetically predisposed to some sort of serial murdering. 1161 01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:41,320 Speaker 1: But the good news for you is I believe that 1162 01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:45,599 Speaker 1: ship is sailed. Perhaps kids already out just stay away 1163 01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:48,360 Speaker 1: from I would imagine that would require a heavy, significant 1164 01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:50,720 Speaker 1: amount of happy And I've never met Matt's parents. Does 1165 01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:53,360 Speaker 1: he have parents? We don't know where Matt came from. 1166 01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:56,599 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I met your didn't your pops come 1167 01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:00,840 Speaker 1: in here one day? Uh? Yeah? Or that was my dad? 1168 01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:04,640 Speaker 1: Are you sure that wasn't a Nazi replicant vampire? So 1169 01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:13,040 Speaker 1: um so, I guess to answer your question, I am uh. 1170 01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:17,200 Speaker 1: I guess I'm partially homeschooled like every only child is, 1171 01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,080 Speaker 1: because I hung out with myself a lot like early 1172 01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:24,160 Speaker 1: uh m hm, you know, okay, never mind, never mind 1173 01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:31,400 Speaker 1: schooled by he Man VHS tapes. At least it wasn't 1174 01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:34,719 Speaker 1: the Master Universe as far as I was concerned. Yeah, 1175 01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:37,840 Speaker 1: I have the power. It taught me to believe in 1176 01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,120 Speaker 1: myself and to be a team player because I didn't 1177 01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:43,040 Speaker 1: have any brothers or sisters either. And talked to you 1178 01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,200 Speaker 1: out was that like one of Orca's little lessons at 1179 01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:47,840 Speaker 1: the end of every episode, And talked to you out 1180 01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:50,439 Speaker 1: of or talked to you off the ledge of becoming 1181 01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,880 Speaker 1: a homicidal maniac, right Exceletor, Yeah, well he was the 1182 01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:57,240 Speaker 1: least appealing character in the show. He had no he's 1183 01:10:57,240 --> 01:10:59,720 Speaker 1: he's fun, but hold on, want to be Skeletor you 1184 01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:03,879 Speaker 1: had entified with Skeletor No, No, well, okay, certain aspects 1185 01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:07,960 Speaker 1: of it I get, Like Cobra Commander, you can understand, 1186 01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:11,000 Speaker 1: you know, kind of where they're coming from. Um, but 1187 01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:14,160 Speaker 1: I overall I don't agree with their approach and I 1188 01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:18,519 Speaker 1: never really understood the mythology of he Man. I saw 1189 01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:24,200 Speaker 1: the live action film again in recently. Yeah, I just 1190 01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:29,000 Speaker 1: didn't under I didn't understand it and I didn't understand 1191 01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:31,479 Speaker 1: how something about it not being a cartoon And for 1192 01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:34,800 Speaker 1: grown I'll say it beat me if you have to know, 1193 01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:37,240 Speaker 1: But for a grown ass Dolf Lunggren to be walking 1194 01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:40,519 Speaker 1: around calling himself he Man and have other people call 1195 01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:43,360 Speaker 1: him he man, I mean, I have a I have 1196 01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:45,800 Speaker 1: a I love nicknames, don't get me wrong, But if 1197 01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:49,680 Speaker 1: I meet somebody who is our age and says like 1198 01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:54,799 Speaker 1: they call me, you know, spin daddy. Sorry, sorry, Derek. 1199 01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:58,439 Speaker 1: So how did this get made? The comedy podcast that 1200 01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:02,679 Speaker 1: looks at movies actually just an episode on Master Past 1201 01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:05,200 Speaker 1: and they talk about this and they kind of reveal 1202 01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:08,840 Speaker 1: the I believe there's one of those like behind the 1203 01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:12,320 Speaker 1: scenes blog posts? Was it like the secrets behind Masters 1204 01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:14,679 Speaker 1: of the Universe? Talking about how Dolph Lingering got involved 1205 01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:17,120 Speaker 1: in the movie. It makes me think when you think 1206 01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:19,840 Speaker 1: of the name he Man, like it just what could 1207 01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:23,559 Speaker 1: be a more absurd masculine name, you know, and I'll 1208 01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:25,320 Speaker 1: tell you what could be there's but it works because 1209 01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:29,559 Speaker 1: it's a band called Man Man, and that, to me, 1210 01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:31,720 Speaker 1: that's one upset, but in a great way because they're 1211 01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:33,840 Speaker 1: this kind of weirdo. Tom Waits, he kind of like, uh, 1212 01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:37,720 Speaker 1: you knows, pirate kind of rock band? Is it? Is 1213 01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:41,439 Speaker 1: it hyphenated? I think it's one I think it's one Man. 1214 01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:45,080 Speaker 1: There probably is someone somewhere in the world because there 1215 01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:47,600 Speaker 1: are billions of people here and their name probably is 1216 01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:50,640 Speaker 1: man Man. It probably doesn't mean the same thing it 1217 01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:55,040 Speaker 1: does to us in English. But how did we get here? Guys? 1218 01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,400 Speaker 1: How do we get here? Well? You know what, after 1219 01:12:57,400 --> 01:12:59,840 Speaker 1: you talk about on cut serial Killers for an hour, 1220 01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:04,360 Speaker 1: get out a little bit of your bleach, talk about well, guys, 1221 01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,960 Speaker 1: we are going to head out. We know this episode 1222 01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:09,960 Speaker 1: went a little bit longer, but that's one of the 1223 01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,800 Speaker 1: main complaints we get is that people want longer episodes. 1224 01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:16,640 Speaker 1: So we hope that I don't know if enjoy is 1225 01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:19,479 Speaker 1: the right word to use for this, but we hope 1226 01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:23,559 Speaker 1: that this shed some light some of the misapprehensions people have. 1227 01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:28,160 Speaker 1: And we want to thank Christian Saker for coming in again. 1228 01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:30,759 Speaker 1: If you like this episode, you'll also like the Comics 1229 01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:33,639 Speaker 1: Code episode we did Earlierah, that was a fun one. Uh. 1230 01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:35,320 Speaker 1: And you can also find me on Stuff to Blow 1231 01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:39,960 Speaker 1: your Mind, where I podcast with our colleagues Robert and 1232 01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:43,800 Speaker 1: Joe about all things weird and science. E. I guess 1233 01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:45,920 Speaker 1: the one I would recommend the most, the sort of 1234 01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:47,479 Speaker 1: if you if you like what we talked about here 1235 01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:51,000 Speaker 1: is that science of Necrophilia episode that I mentioned earlier, 1236 01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:53,360 Speaker 1: but don't discount. There are a lot of episodes that 1237 01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:55,960 Speaker 1: you guys have done, especially recently since the three of 1238 01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:59,080 Speaker 1: you have been podcasting, that are right, I think and 1239 01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:03,000 Speaker 1: our listeners out Oh yeah yeah, especially um all of October, 1240 01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:06,640 Speaker 1: we've been doing uh not Halloween themed, but sort of 1241 01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:11,920 Speaker 1: October themed topics. So for instance, like those guys tackled 1242 01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:16,439 Speaker 1: natural burials, and Robert and I took a look at 1243 01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:21,240 Speaker 1: the psychology of Final Girls in slasher movies. Um, so 1244 01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:23,439 Speaker 1: we've done some interesting stuff like that. Yeah, your audience 1245 01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:27,000 Speaker 1: would certainly be interested, I hope. Oh yeah, check it out. 1246 01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:28,840 Speaker 1: If you like stuff they don't want you to know, 1247 01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:32,160 Speaker 1: you'll love Stuff to Blow your Mind. Oh wait, before 1248 01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:36,000 Speaker 1: we go, there's one more big announcement, which is, this 1249 01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:40,600 Speaker 1: was our last moment with Noel. It's okay, guys, I 1250 01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:43,040 Speaker 1: knew terrible. I knew it was short lived. You know 1251 01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:46,200 Speaker 1: it was. It was nice while it lasted. Right, Wait 1252 01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:51,879 Speaker 1: there's more, Yes, but wait, there's more. Uh. The reason 1253 01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:55,920 Speaker 1: it's our last moment with Noel in this episode is 1254 01:14:56,000 --> 01:15:00,640 Speaker 1: because from now on this is going to be a 1255 01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:04,400 Speaker 1: three person show. So when three person plus three person 1256 01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:08,719 Speaker 1: plus because when you when you tune in from every week, 1257 01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,400 Speaker 1: and we hope you do, you're gonna be hearing Noel 1258 01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:15,599 Speaker 1: and Matt and I and perhaps some special guests if 1259 01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:19,400 Speaker 1: I can. I mean, I already have exhausted my my 1260 01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:23,080 Speaker 1: podcast karma maybe cajoling you into this. I'm sure I'll 1261 01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:25,639 Speaker 1: come back at some point. There's plenty of more uncought 1262 01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:29,040 Speaker 1: serial killers for us to discuss, right, and hopefully something 1263 01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:33,479 Speaker 1: more pleasant. Yeah, let's come up with a happier conspiracy theory. Okay, 1264 01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:36,440 Speaker 1: So we've we've been talking about doing something about the invisibles. 1265 01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:39,600 Speaker 1: That would be a fun one. Yes, that's something a 1266 01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:41,639 Speaker 1: lot of people want to know about. The baron staying 1267 01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:45,760 Speaker 1: bears and the Mandela effect. Uh, So we'd like to 1268 01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:48,360 Speaker 1: pass this question to you, and that's the end of 1269 01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:52,440 Speaker 1: this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions 1270 01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,760 Speaker 1: about this episode, you can get into contact with us 1271 01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:57,920 Speaker 1: in a number of different ways. One of the best 1272 01:15:58,000 --> 01:15:59,760 Speaker 1: is to give us a call. Our number is one 1273 01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:03,720 Speaker 1: eight three three std w y t K. If you 1274 01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:05,600 Speaker 1: don't want to do that, you can send us a 1275 01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:09,080 Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart 1276 01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:12,599 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they Don't want you to know 1277 01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:15,800 Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts 1278 01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:18,040 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 1279 01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:21,000 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.