1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Hot take. You guys, I think Nazis are bad. I 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: don't think. 3 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 2: Ah, yeah, I think you're probably right. Nazis Nazi scum. 4 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 2: Die No, die Nazi scum. What's the what's the old adage? 5 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 2: I agree with both versions of it with you. They 6 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 2: have never been great and they've always historically kind of 7 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 2: insisted on themselves. 8 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: And recently we recorded a series about the World's Fair 9 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: just as a concept. It's called the World Expo these days, 10 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: but we talked a bit about the soft diplomatic power 11 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: that nations nations sought for when they hosted a World's Fair. 12 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: And this is the same thing we see in sporting 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: events in history and in the modern day. There's a 14 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: propaganda power to it. 15 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, there's a certain fervor and zealotry that goes 16 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 2: along with being a super fan of any sport that 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: can be weaponized. 18 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: Absolutely check out our episode on sports. They're in stuff 19 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. And while you're at it, 20 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: join us for today's classic episode, why British soccer players 21 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: saluted the Nazis and the lead up to World War Two. 22 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: Inquiring minds would like to know. 23 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 3: Let's throw it ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. 24 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, ladies and gentlemen. We're going to 25 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: start today's episode with a look at something that happened 26 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: very recently in American history, and that is the controversy 27 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: taking place in American football. Not with the rest of 28 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: the world calls football, that's the controversy taking place in 29 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: American football regarding players taking a knee in protest during 30 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: the national anthem. 31 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: I refuse, wait, are you supposed to take any You know, 32 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 2: you're not supposed to take a knee. It's disrespectful to 33 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 2: take a mee. In fact, the NFL, I believe, just 34 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: came out with new rules that require players contractually to 35 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 2: stand for the national anthem. But as you say, Ben, yes, 36 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: it was an act of defiance, a way of standing 37 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 2: up or taking a knee, rather for their particular cause. 38 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 4: Is that okay, Casey, that's great. 39 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: Oh and that's our super producer, Casey. 40 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 4: Pegram, who is in fact on the case. 41 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: And I'm Ben and you are oh and that makes 42 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: this ridiculous history. Yeah, we are not the It's no 43 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: secret that you and I are not die hard INFL fans, 44 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: But like many people in this country, and in other countries. 45 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: We were fast needed by this story, by this process 46 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: of protest and counter protest, and Noel, as you pointed 47 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: out just a second ago, the NFL did in May 48 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: of twenty eighteen ban the practice of taking a knee. 49 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: Although this is a tremendously controversial ban. 50 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's being appealed or picketed or you know, 51 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: protested in some way by. 52 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 4: The union, the players union, I believe. 53 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 2: Because come on, man, like, if you can't protest as 54 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 2: a multimillionaire overpaid sports figure, you know, what does that 55 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: say for the rest of us? 56 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: And what does it say about free speech as well? 57 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: Exactly, But we're talking about I'm not this exactly kind 58 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: of it's weird, it's part of the story. But we're 59 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: talking about kind of the opposite of this, which is 60 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: using sports as propaganda. 61 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: Right, I would say that we were talking about a 62 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: larger context because this specific event in modern history provides 63 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: an excellent point of comparison to the earlier events that 64 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: I think surprised both of us when we began digging 65 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: into this, and sporting events on an international scale have 66 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: long functioned as acts of propaganda, you know, iconic moments 67 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: in history occurred at the Olympics, for instance. 68 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, And what is the Olympics if not a 69 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: chance for various countries to achieve perhaps not global dominance 70 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 2: and hegemony, but at least dominance on the field of. 71 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 4: Sport, right, faux battle? 72 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And we see it in the World Cup, 73 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: we see it in the World Series, we see it 74 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: in the Super Bowl. And today's episode involves a tremendously 75 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: important political event that took place on a soccer field. 76 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: We have to go into some political context, I think first, Right. 77 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: I think we do, Ben, It's true. So we're talking 78 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 2: about Germany, right, And the second half of the nineteen thirties, 79 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: the Nazi Party that had taken over Germany was really, really, 80 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: really becoming quite aggressive, weren't they been. In nineteen thirty five, 81 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 2: they publicly announced that they were going to rearm their military, 82 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 2: which flew in the face of a little something called 83 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: the Treaty of Versailles that ended World War One? 84 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 4: Isn't that right? 85 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 2: Ben? 86 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: That is correct, nol And we've talked a little bit 87 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: in the past about the enormous cost Germany bar as 88 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: a result of World War One, and this had dangerous 89 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: effects on their economy, and it's one of the factors 90 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: that allowed the very aggressive, expansionist Nazi regime to come 91 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: into power. And at the time, other people, other countries 92 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: and heads of state couldn't agree on what the proper, 93 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: unified response to this aggressive German government should be. The 94 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: question was, should we contain the Nazi Party and Germany, 95 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: Should we openly combat them, or should we attempt to, 96 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: you know, appease them, make nice. 97 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 2: Let's let's run with that word, ben Let's let's make 98 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: a whole system out of this. Yeah, a policy. We'll 99 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 2: call it appeasement. There we go, And now about that 100 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 2: burst the creativity. Well, but you can understand why. I mean, 101 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 2: people were shell shocked from the havoc that was reached 102 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 2: by World War One all across Europe. I mean, that 103 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 2: was no fun. It was utter devastation in many parts 104 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 2: of the country. And the Treaty of Versailles, even the 105 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 2: Allies kind of realized people on the ground, at least 106 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: from what I've read that the Treaty of Versailles wasn't 107 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 2: particularly fair to a lot of the countries that involved, 108 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 2: specially Germany, because under the treaty they were limited to 109 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 2: having one hundred thousand strong military. But again in thirty five, 110 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 2: after they've been kind of a massing weaponry all these years, 111 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: they got the confidence under Hitler to come out and say, Yo, 112 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: we are building up our military again. 113 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 4: Boo on your treaty. 114 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,119 Speaker 2: We could care less, and they escalated that thirty six 115 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,679 Speaker 2: they occupied the Rhineland, which is an area, a region, 116 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 2: a small region in the middle of the country, also 117 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: totally against the Treaty of Versailles. 118 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: Yes, and this appeasement policy sound may sound strange to 119 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: us today because we have the benefit of knowing what 120 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: happened after this policy was in place. But the appeasement 121 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: policy is often pointed out as the worst decision the 122 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain ever made, But there were other 123 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: British prime ministers who followed the same policy, including Ramsey 124 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: MacDonald and Stanley Baldwin. This wasn't just made for Germany. 125 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: It also was applied to Italy, which was under the 126 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: control of a fascist regime at the trend, and it 127 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: lasted from nineteen thirty five to nineteen thirty nine. Our 128 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: story today takes place during that time. It takes place 129 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty eight at a soccer game. 130 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: It's true, and just to backtrack ever so slightly, to 131 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 2: go back into appeasement every time the Nazis did these 132 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 2: kind of brash moves like occupying the Rhineland. In the 133 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: year of our story, they annexed Austria and they actually 134 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: like did a coup data within their naz already pretty 135 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 2: strong Nazi party within Austria and Austria being Hitler's boyhood home. 136 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: Right, We're going to spend a lot of time in 137 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: this episode going from the specific events to the larger context. 138 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: So before we get to the famous event that occurred 139 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: in May May fourteenth, nineteen thirty eight, let's go back 140 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: earlier in the year to April, where we saw another 141 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 1: precedent set an example of protests through sport. 142 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, the one we kind of alluded to at the 143 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 2: top of the show, because, like I said a minute ago, 144 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 2: it was in nineteen thirty eight that Germany really went 145 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 2: hard in the paint and totally annexed. 146 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 4: Austria, as I said, over through the. 147 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 2: Government in an effort to combine the two countries in 148 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: an event they referred to as the Anschluss, and Austria 149 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 2: had a pretty ballin pun totally intended soccer team football 150 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 2: team headed up by a guy by the name of 151 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 2: Matteus Sindler or Schindler I've heard, I'm gonna I think 152 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 2: it's similar. There's no sc h s i n d 153 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 2: e l a R and Ben. He had a really 154 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 2: cool nickname, didn't he. 155 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was the Paperman or der paper Sindlar s 156 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: i n d e l a R was known as 157 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: the Mozart to football as well. Saw that one. He 158 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: played as the center forward for the Austria national team 159 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: that was known as the Wonder Team, and he captained 160 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirty four World Cup. This guy is a 161 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: football superstar and this game that occurs on April third 162 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty eight was meant to celebrate what Germany 163 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: was calling. Get this, Austria's coming home to the Reich. 164 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 2: Come on home to the Reich, Come on home to 165 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 2: the Reich. Yeah yeah, but here's a problem. Sindler hated 166 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: the Nazis predictably. Predictably, Yeah, I mean they totally came 167 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 2: into his country, took it over, tried to change everything 168 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 2: about his way of life, including trying to smash his 169 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 2: football club in with the German football club that sucked 170 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 2: by the way Germany was not good. 171 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 4: Can I call it soccer? I'm just going to call 172 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 4: it soccer. 173 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, just call it soccer. As a matter of fact, 174 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: we have a fun firebomb to throw for you ridiculous historians. 175 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: If you were football or soccer fan, factual Molotov cocktail, 176 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: it might be a bit in in injury for some people. 177 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: I found this article in The Atlantic called why Americans 178 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: call soccer soccer? By Uri Friedman. It's a British term, 179 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: It got a US term, and we here in the 180 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: States picked it up from England. The word soccer originated 181 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: in England, fell into disuse there, and became dominant in 182 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: the States. And there's some people who have studied this 183 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: who found. What they did is they looked at the 184 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: frequency with which the words football and soccer appeared in 185 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: American and British news outlets dating back to nineteen hundred. 186 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 1: Soccer was a recognized term for the game we're describing 187 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: for the first half of the twentieth century, but it 188 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: wasn't widely used until after World War Two, when it 189 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: became interchangeable with the phrase football and sometimes used together soccer. 190 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 4: Football Okay, but I'm an American. I'm an American. I'm 191 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 4: proud of it. 192 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: So I call hitting that that ball with you hit 193 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 2: your foot with the ball game, I'm gonna call it soccer, 194 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 2: so just as not to confuse, you know, because I 195 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: don't want to say American football. 196 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,839 Speaker 4: That sounds ridiculous, so you should to say it. 197 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: In a British accent, exactly say American football, although the. 198 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 2: Fact the Brits have been dominant in the sport since 199 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: the very beginning. 200 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: And I want to sew this up real quick, because 201 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure this is going to interest several of you 202 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, especially if you've had an argument with one 203 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: of your friends across the pond about this. It traces 204 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: back to World War Two. Most likely American troops stationed 205 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: in the UK during the war came back and started 206 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: using that phrase and that led to a backlash against 207 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: the word in Britain. And now this word has completely 208 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: immigrated to the US. 209 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 4: Isn't that funny? 210 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 2: If you still haven't given me the etymology, It's just 211 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 2: like it said about the socks, the knee socks, the 212 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 2: fact that you're socking the ball around with your foots. 213 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: It's a shortening of association footballer. 214 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 4: That's stupid. So soccer. That's the worst possible answer. 215 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 1: But you can't. You can't go in and expect a 216 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: language to conform to what you as an individual. 217 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 2: I'm not mad at you, then, I didn't mean that 218 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 2: to come off like I was your fault. The origin 219 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 2: of soccer is so dull, but I'm disappointed. 220 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: I think it's fascinating. 221 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 4: It is fascinating, Ben, you know what else is fascinating. 222 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 2: Back to Sindler, let's do it so again, super salty 223 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 2: about the Nazis coming in and invading his home turf 224 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 2: and trying to, you know, jam up his soccer club. 225 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 2: And so they this this game in question in what 226 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 2: do we say, April of nineteen thirty. 227 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: April third, nineteen thirty eight. 228 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 2: That's right, it's meant to be, on paper, at least, 229 00:13:55,040 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 2: a celebration of the historical legacy of the Austrian Soccer Club. 230 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: And the last match that the team would have as 231 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: an independent Austrian team before it. 232 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 2: Gets smushed in with the far inferior German club. 233 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,599 Speaker 1: So they begin protesting the moment they hit the field. 234 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: Kind of yeah, well, what I had seen in an 235 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: amazing documentary from the BBC called Fascism and Football was 236 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 2: that it was very clear that the Austrians had been 237 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 2: told to. 238 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: Lose, Yeah, to throw the game, throw the match, to 239 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: show the symbolic or propagandistic importance of aligning with Germany. 240 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 4: That's right. 241 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 2: And just one quick aside, one quote that I think 242 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 2: is so amazing from this documentary Fascism in Football. 243 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 4: Rather you can find the whole thing on YouTube and 244 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 4: it's just great. 245 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 2: Is the idea that sports were such a powerful tool 246 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 2: for propaganda because when you win, you win, and you 247 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 2: can't like, no one can accuse you of lying. Because 248 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 2: if you win and are dominant in a sport, then 249 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 2: that's just before everyone's very eyes. You are the clear, 250 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 2: you are the winner, you won, and you played by 251 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: the rules. 252 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: It's what we today would refer to as optics. 253 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 4: Optics in that are. 254 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: And so the star player of Austria's team, Sindolar. 255 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 4: That's right, refuses to. 256 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: Go along with this plan. He says, I am not 257 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: going to pay obedience to this invading power, and furthermore, 258 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: I'm not going to cheapen the most important thing in 259 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: my life. 260 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 2: Well, and the funny thing is too, like, yes, you're 261 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: absolutely right, he definitely did not go along with it, 262 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 2: and that he did not look like he was trying 263 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: very hard. He made it very clear that he was 264 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: just kind of farting along, very lacklusterly. 265 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 4: Right. I think he was like shaking his head and 266 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 4: disdain kind of. 267 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: And refuse to wear the uniforms. They were supposed to 268 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: wear their traditional white and black. They replaced it with 269 00:15:55,240 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: Uncindolar's orders. More or less, the Austrians played in red 270 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: white red outfits the national flag's colors. Yikes, And yeah, 271 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: like you're saying, the audience knew something was up because 272 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: it seemed like they just weren't trying. They were just 273 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: farting around until what the last twenty minutes. 274 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then Simla the Paperman scored one of two. 275 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: Goals and Carl Cesta got the second one, who. 276 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 4: I think was his bestie. 277 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 2: I think I think they were like really really close, 278 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 2: And yeah, they totally totally humiliated. The Nazis apparently kind 279 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 2: of did one of those like end zone kind of 280 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 2: cocky yeah, cock of the walk kind of dances right 281 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 2: in front of like can you imagine the scene Ben. 282 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 4: The stands full of Nazi officials. 283 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: High senior Nazi dignitaries, and they celebrated extravagantly. They owned 284 00:16:54,920 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: the moment because they really had publicly humiliated these officials. 285 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,239 Speaker 1: And it's we don't have solid historical proof of this, 286 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: so this is entirely speculation on my part. But I 287 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: would not be surprised if some of those pro Nazi forces, 288 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: knowing in theory the outcome of the game, had decided 289 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: to gamble on it a bit. 290 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 4: Oh absolutely. 291 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: So they were out money, but more importantly, they were 292 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: out public credibility. 293 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 4: Oh absolutely. And here's the thing. 294 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 2: As you might imagine, Sindler was made persona non grata 295 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 2: at that point. He was declared in their internal Gestapo 296 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 2: memos on him that declared him pro Jewish, among other 297 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 2: death sentence worthy distinctions. 298 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: Like a social democrat. 299 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 4: That's it. That's right. 300 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: About within the year or within a year after these events, 301 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: he was dead at the age. 302 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 4: Of thirty five under the most suspicious circumstances. I think 303 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 4: he had been out partying that night and gambling in. 304 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 2: A coffee shop that he was a part owner of, 305 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 2: or the guy that talks about his buddy in the 306 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 2: documentary referred to it as his coffee shop. I'm not 307 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 2: sure if that was just a translation thing or if 308 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: it was just like the place where they would all 309 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: hang out. They were gambling, playing cards, a lot of 310 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 2: money was on the table, and a lot of drinking, 311 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 2: and then he went back with his girlfriend to her apartment, 312 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 2: and you know, YadA, YadA, YadA, one thing led to another. 313 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 2: They go to sleep and they never wake up because 314 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 2: they died of carbon Actually, she ended up in a 315 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 2: coma that she never recovered from, and he died in 316 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 2: his sleep of carbon monoxide poisoning. 317 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: Which was recorded as an accident. Why because yeah, because 318 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: according to Egon Olbrich, a lifelong friend of Sindelar, he's the. 319 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 4: Guy I was talking about that, I was talking about 320 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 4: the gambling night. 321 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he says in the documentary, And then also 322 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: in an article called football Fascism in England's Nazi Salute 323 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: on the BBC by Jonathan Duffy, he says that the 324 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: truth of the story was that a local official was 325 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: bribed to record Sendelar's death as an accident, ensuring that 326 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: he would receive a state funeral. Because we have a 327 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: great quote from Oldbric about this. Because Nazis have particular 328 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: rules about. 329 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 2: This, that's right, This is the quote. According to the 330 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 2: Nazi rules, a person who had been murdered or who 331 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 2: has committed suicide cannot be given a grave of honor. 332 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 2: So we had to do something to ensure that the 333 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 2: criminal element involved in his death was removed. That's wild man. 334 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: And it continued escalating. Yeah, the Germans were very very 335 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: serious about the value of propaganda, and from their perspective, 336 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: this sort of insolence could not stand. So it's pretty 337 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 1: obvious that he was murdered, no doubt. 338 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 2: And did we mention the fact that for a while, 339 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 2: as the Nazis rose to power. Maybe this is obvious 340 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 2: to everybody but me, they kind of masked their awful 341 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 2: racist ways totally. 342 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 4: They didn't reveal the full. 343 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 2: Nature of their final solution, or their idea of you know. 344 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 4: Pulling up the Jews and the Roma people, or any 345 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 4: of the just horrible, horrible racist leanings until a good 346 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 4: bit later. 347 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 2: And this was still during that time where obviously they 348 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 2: meant business, but the true nature of their evil was 349 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 2: not on full display yet. 350 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: Well, it was also in that time. This is an 351 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: unfortunate and ugly truth in that time, anti Semitism was widespread, 352 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: we know, just in the GM pop Yeah, just like 353 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: throughout Europe. Definitely, also clearly in the US, and the 354 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 1: same prejudices applied to Roma as well and other quote 355 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: unquote you know, subversive elements or what they would call deviance. 356 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:52,479 Speaker 1: So these people, this group had existed throughout various countries 357 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: in Europe for centuries, right, And the shocking racism, the 358 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:06,959 Speaker 1: anti semitism, the iron clad and puritanical attitudes about sex 359 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: were normal. If you read a German textbook about the 360 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: concept of living space for the German people, it's not 361 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: that different from many other textbooks of the time that 362 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: also argued the innate superiority of certain ethnic groups and 363 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: it might change during the country. So people didn't know. 364 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: I think the point you're making this really important is 365 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: people did not know that there was genocide on the horizon. Privately, 366 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: members of the Nazi regime were already thinking of ways 367 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: to forcibly deport elements of the population they didn't improve up, 368 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: and they were trying to figure out where to put them, 369 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: like would it be Madagascar, would it be some other country? 370 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: And then eventually, as we know, this led to one 371 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: of the most horrific occurrences in human history. 372 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 2: God, and I hate to get political about it, but 373 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 2: it feels like when you start reading about the early 374 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 2: stages of the Nazi takeover and the kind of rhetoric, 375 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 2: the kind of this nationalistic rhetoric, while not overtly racist, 376 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 2: very dog whistle racist in a very similar way that. 377 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 4: We're experiencing in our country right now. 378 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 2: And it scares the crap out of me reading this 379 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 2: and thinking about history repeating in multiple countries. 380 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 4: Right. Absolutely, So we've got this, We've got. 381 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 1: This context with Sindelar, who now we know was murdered, 382 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:32,439 Speaker 1: but originally. 383 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 4: We don't really know. I mean, yeah, but you can't 384 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:35,479 Speaker 4: it couldn't. 385 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: Come on, You're right, we don't know for sure. 386 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 4: Dosier those those classifications. I mean, he was everyone says 387 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 4: that was a death sentence. 388 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: Somebody had their eye on him, and not in a 389 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: good way. So in this in this context, we have 390 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: the precedent for protests, and then we have the precedent 391 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: for sport events overall, especially football, soccer, football, soccer, whatever 392 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: you want to call it. We see this as a 393 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: medium for propagandistic communication. Let's get back to this concept 394 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: of appeasement. Now, let's talk a little bit about Neville Chamberlain. 395 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and how far this idea of appeasement went in 396 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 2: the way it played out on what the Brits referred 397 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: to as the soccer pitch. 398 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. 399 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. We talk a lot about media manipulation in the 400 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: modern day, but it was a known, tried and true 401 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: technique here in the nineteen thirties as well, So much 402 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: so that going back to May nineteen thirty eight, the 403 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: fourteenth of May, English soccer players traveled to Germany to 404 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: play the German team in a soccer match. 405 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 4: That's right, minus yeah, minus. There were Ace and the 406 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 4: whole Sindler who was still living at this time, but 407 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 4: he refused, probably another reason he was blacklist in the 408 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 4: way he was had to add insult to injury. He 409 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 4: refused to play for the new combined Austrian Germany team, 410 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 4: which obviously was just called the German team. He said 411 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 4: he cited old age, but he was like thirty five, 412 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 4: I think, yeah, and also simultaneously injury, so it was 413 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 4: just a bit of a f you to old you know, fear. 414 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: So let's set the scene, casey, could we have maybe 415 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: the sound of a of a crowd at a at 416 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: a soccer match, more than one hundred thousand soccer fans 417 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: file into Berlin's Olympic Stadium and the countries. At this point, 418 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: everybody knows war is escalating. Things are ratcheting up right 419 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,479 Speaker 1: big time. And these countries, Britain and Germany are still 420 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: playing nice. They don't trust the each other, but they're 421 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: still going through the motions and the gestures of diplomacy 422 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: and swastikas and British flags or flying side by side. 423 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: The German national anthem is being played over the speakers, 424 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: but on the field below. If you can imagine this 425 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: in your mind, fellow historians, something very strange occurs. The 426 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: German and the British players raise their arms in the 427 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: infamous Nazi salute. 428 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 4: The hile right here the Cliff. 429 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 5: Cup final enthusiasm prevails in Berlin when England beat Germany 430 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 5: on the soccer field. All the curtaincies are observed before 431 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 5: the stop God. 432 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 4: Save the King is paid. 433 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 5: And the English team in white shirts give the Nazi 434 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 5: salute during the German national anthem. One hundred and fifteen 435 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 5: thousand spectator's pack. 436 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 2: So that was newsreel footage from the Associated Press on 437 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 2: the day of this infamous event, and it's purported eerily 438 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 2: in a matter of fact kind of way, but there 439 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 2: was a lot of controversies around in this game because 440 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: by this point, if not their full final solution, level, 441 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 2: complete and utter evilness was on display. People knew that 442 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 2: the Nazis were fascists oh yeah, and big time yeah. 443 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: And the British press, despite efforts at media manipulation to 444 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: make the population pro appeasement, the British press had had enough, 445 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: absolutely outrage and there was even more insult to injury 446 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 1: because it turned out, despite this gesture on the part 447 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: of the English team, Adolf Hitler wasn't even at the game. 448 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: It wasn't present. They were just saluting the idea of Nazis. 449 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 4: No, it's true. 450 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 2: In fact, I think the very first game he ever attended, 451 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 2: or earlier in this story, the Germans lost to I 452 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 2: think it was the Netherlands or a smaller team that 453 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 2: was seen as being less skilled than the German team. 454 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 2: So and he was really irritated about that. He didn't 455 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 2: always make appearances, but no, he was not at this game. 456 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 2: And the thing is, the Germans did lose this game. 457 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 2: They got They're brought worst handed to them by the Brits, who, again, 458 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 2: as we said, were pretty damn dominant in the sport. 459 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 2: There's an interview in this documentary with the guys like, yeah, 460 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 2: it wasn't really that big of a surprise because pretty 461 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,360 Speaker 2: much everyone lost to the UK. 462 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, can we play that guy's clip? I just 463 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: love his voice. 464 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 6: To lose to England at that time was nothing unusual 465 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 6: because basically everybody lost to the British team at the time. 466 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 6: So I think for Hitler, the propaganda effect of that 467 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 6: game was a lot more important than everything else. 468 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: Right, they were known to be one of the best 469 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: teams on the planet. They won the game six to three, 470 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 1: six England three Germany. And the weird thing about the 471 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: scor is it was somewhat of a footnote because the 472 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: thing everybody was focusing on was this bizarre attempt at diplomacy. 473 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: It wasn't spontaneous on the part of the English team. 474 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: Neville Chamberlain had in advance told them to do it, 475 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 1: and from what we understand, the intent of this was 476 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: to make nice and show that Germany was not considered 477 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: to be a quote, pariah state, despite the fact that 478 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: they pacmanned up Austria. 479 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 2: And that was also kind of part of Germany's propagandistic 480 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 2: way of looking at this was to show that hey, 481 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 2: we're just like you. We like to play sport, and 482 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 2: we like to goose step around in our strange Nazi uniforms, 483 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 2: and I all, wait, something's wrong here? 484 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: Surecase our superior. 485 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 2: Because I want to go back a little way, just 486 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 2: because I think this is a really important point. The 487 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 2: real stage set for Hitler's use of sport in this 488 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 2: way was the nineteen thirty six Olympics, the Berlin Olympics, 489 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 2: which is super interesting because that was like a world stage. 490 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 2: Everyone's watching, it's in Berlin. Hitler's there. He used it 491 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 2: as an opportunity to showcase, like you said, the efficiency, 492 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 2: the militaristic might of the Nazi state. But there was 493 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 2: a little kink in Hitler's idea here of showcasing the 494 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 2: you know, might and prowess of the Aryan supremacy or 495 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,479 Speaker 2: what have you. This mythos he was trying to create. 496 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,719 Speaker 2: When Jesse Owens, an African American competitor, won four gold medals, 497 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 2: that's right. 498 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 4: Then, four gold medals. 499 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 2: It was in the one hundred meter two hundred meters 500 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 2: long jump in for by one hundred meter relay race, 501 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: just completely in front of God and everyone crushing that idea. 502 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 4: And Hitler was none too pleased, right, which is which. 503 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: Is weird because this is such an iconic moment, and 504 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: you know we're going to brag a little bit. Jesse 505 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: Owens is American, So take that, Nazis and do you 506 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: like how I bragging is if we had anything to 507 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: do with it. Yeah, But there's an interesting tidbit here 508 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: because so this occurs in August of nineteen thirty six. 509 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: August first, I think is the first day of competition. 510 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,959 Speaker 1: There was a newspaper editor named Robert L. Van, himself 511 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: African American, who was at the scene, and in an 512 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: article dated to August fourth, nineteen thirty six, he says, 513 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: wonder of wonders, I saw harr Adolph Hitler salute the lad. 514 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: I looked on with a heart which beat proudly, as 515 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: the lad who was crowned king of the one hundred 516 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: meters event, got an ovation the like of which I 517 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,719 Speaker 1: had never heard before. I saw Jesse Owens greeted by 518 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: the Grand Chancellor of this country as a brilliant son 519 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: peeped out through the clouds. I saw a vast crowd 520 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: of some eighty five thousand or ninety thousand peace people 521 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: stand up and cheer him to the echo. And that 522 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: is winning hearts and minds, isn't it. I think it's 523 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: so easy to underestimate the importance that these sorts of 524 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: events can play in human history. 525 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 4: Oh absolutely, yeah, no, because the people. 526 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 2: I mean, I've seen pieces and whole you know, papers 527 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 2: written about the idea of sports as a religion. People 528 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 2: put as much credence in you know, baseball players and 529 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 2: basketball player as they do and you know. 530 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: God right like King James the name for Lebron. 531 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 4: Because it's a stand in for our hopes and dreams. 532 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 2: You know, even if it's sort of a false dichotomy, 533 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 2: and it's because you win a soccer game as a 534 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 2: country doesn't really translate in reality to your might or prowess. 535 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 4: It's sort of a microcosmic view of that, which. 536 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: Is why so many countries spend so much money and 537 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: time and occasionally so much effort at skullduggery when it 538 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: comes to winning international sports competitions. I have a thing 539 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: I'd like your take on goal and you as well, folks, 540 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: do you think sport, the concept of sports games. Do 541 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: you feel like it has taken in the most powerful 542 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: parts of religion, the most powerful parts of war, and 543 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: the most powerful parts of economy. I feel like it has. 544 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 4: I think you just answered your own question. Ben, that's 545 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 4: I mean, what do you think though? I think it's 546 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 4: a very no. 547 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 2: I think that is an astute point, and I think 548 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 2: that's absolutely true. And I think we see that too 549 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 2: with what we open the show with the idea of 550 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,719 Speaker 2: the power that these players have, and when it doesn't 551 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 2: jive with the money behind the power, or like the 552 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 2: organizational power behind the scenes, there can be issues. Sometimes 553 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 2: it involves people getting carbon monoxide poisoned to death in 554 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 2: their sleep. Sometimes it involves getting you know, players being 555 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 2: suspended for taking a knee during a national anthem. It's 556 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 2: just interesting the way politics and sports can be so intertwined. 557 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 2: And I think it all goes back to even earlier 558 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,959 Speaker 2: than this. This is just probably the biggest, most obvious 559 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 2: political example that we have. But to your point, Ben, 560 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 2: as far back as the Romans and gladiators and bred 561 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 2: and circuses and all that, sport has always been a 562 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 2: powerful tool to manipulate the minds of the people. And 563 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 2: manipulate maybe is the wrong word. I don't know, what 564 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 2: do you think. 565 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: I feel like manipulate is a perfect word for this. Also, 566 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: we have to point out spoiler alert for World War 567 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,239 Speaker 1: two everyone, so I tune out if you don't, if 568 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: you don't want to get spoiled for this. We have 569 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: to point out that Chamberlain's in Britain's appeasement policy did 570 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: not work. No, it was just a little more than 571 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: a year before tensions broke a war began, correct, Noal. 572 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was September of nineteen thirty nine. The Nazis 573 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 2: invaded Poland and that was just a bridge too far 574 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 2: for the Allies. They'd finally had enough. The Germans leagued 575 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 2: up with the Soviets to partition Poland into their own 576 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 2: separate spheres of influence. And that, my friend, is the 577 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 2: story of how World War two really began in earnest 578 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 2: and that's the story for another time. 579 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 1: No, I really enjoyed this episode, Nolan. I hate to 580 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: close so soon. Hey, what do you say we do 581 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: a little bit of listener mail? 582 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:35,399 Speaker 4: Huge fan? 583 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 2: So the first one I want to pull from a 584 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 2: Facebook post that is a really good summary of a 585 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 2: myriad of emails we got Facebook posts. Some few people 586 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 2: slid into our dms on Instagram and facebook them. 587 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: By the way, thanks for writing us folks. 588 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 2: No doubt, but they very gingerly shredded us on our 589 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 2: pronunciaation of a few Philadelphia, philadelphiasms. 590 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: Let's say it together, three to one school kill. 591 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 7: Only some people that even quibble with that one, which 592 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 7: is why it makes me feel good about it. This 593 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 7: guy says, laughing at Ben Bowling and Noel Brown butchering 594 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 7: school kill River. I believe we said combination of shoy 595 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 7: kill school kill whatever it was wrong. 596 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 4: This guy, John C. 597 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,240 Speaker 2: Says it's pronounced school all caps dash kill. 598 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: And then added you added John a smiling, laughing emoji, 599 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: so we knew that we hadn't fatally offend you. 600 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 2: No, he shredded us with love, and then Ben, as 601 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,319 Speaker 2: as we're wont to do on Ridiculous Historians, posted a 602 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 2: delightful response saying we murdered that pronunciation so hard that 603 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 2: this episode counts as true crime. 604 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 4: Hey, thanks for he says, thanks for listening as well for. 605 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 8: The valuable correction. Thanks for you just quoted me, did 606 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 8: you to yourself, you did, I love it. That's weird, 607 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 8: but yeah, but check out this thread. This is part 608 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 8: of the reason why we love the Ridiculous Historian's page, 609 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 8: because some of your fellow listeners didn't just point out 610 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 8: the correct or accepted pronunciation of this river. 611 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: Some of them also began bantering back and forth, disagreeing 612 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: on their own ideas about pronunciation right big time. 613 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 2: And then we had one Oliver C pop in with 614 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 2: a little Georgia centric thing saying, here in Georgia they 615 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:42,320 Speaker 2: call the Old Muddy River oak mulgi, oak muggy, oak mugi, 616 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 2: and that's spelled o c m u l g e e. 617 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 2: But the funny thing is, I am from Georgia and 618 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,760 Speaker 2: I've always said oak mulgi and I've heard it pronounced 619 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 2: it that way. But whatever you say, and then ghee 620 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,760 Speaker 2: like clarified butter okmulgi. Okay, no, no, that's right, oak mulgy, 621 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 2: that's right, I've heard of that way. And what you 622 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,359 Speaker 2: would think would be Houston County is actually Houston County. 623 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: Which I've noticed. Yeah, that happened to me one time. 624 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. And then we've got a guy Rob s saying 625 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 4: Jersey born and raised here. I always heard it as 626 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 4: school kill. Yes, drop the. 627 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: L and John C comes back in in the thread 628 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: and says, I don't know if Philadelphians have much room 629 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: to talk about pronunciation, and he shared this fascinating Washington 630 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 1: Post article about the unique Philadelphia accent, which I highly 631 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: recommend you check out, like. 632 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 2: Woodter ice, yeah, which is basically like what like a 633 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 2: like a freeze pop or like kind of Italian ice, beach. 634 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 4: Tolls, beach talls. 635 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: Yet, and we've got a question that I think will 636 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: interest a lot of us in the audience, and it 637 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: is this, what are the strangely pronounced places, landmarks or 638 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: things in your neck of the woods. Because, for instance, 639 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: you know there is Worcester in Massachusetts, right, which is 640 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: completely not pronounced how it SAPs spelled. 641 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 2: There's a there's Peabody in Boston, I believe, or in 642 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,439 Speaker 2: Masters as well, where it's apparently Peabody Pitty Pbdy, which 643 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 2: is another county or town in in in Massachusetts. Yeah, 644 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:21,240 Speaker 2: so it takes all kinds. 645 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 4: Let us know. 646 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 1: We want to hear We're not exaggerating, we want to 647 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: hear the weirdest ones. Who knows you You may save 648 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: us from uh you may you may save us from 649 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: a future internet post. 650 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 2: You know what. 651 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 4: Bring it on, babies, I love it. Uh. 652 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: So we want to thank you, of course for journeying 653 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: with us through this story of sports and protest and appeasement. 654 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: We want to thank Casey Pegram and we want to 655 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 1: thank Christopher hasiotis our research associate who hipped us to 656 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: this story. 657 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 4: Do you have a sound effect yet? 658 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,760 Speaker 1: Now let's see who else do we think? Oh, Alex 659 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: Williams track and you Noel Brown, I'd like to thank 660 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: you too, man oh boy. So stay tuned for our 661 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:16,800 Speaker 1: next episode where he delve into a strange story about Heineken, 662 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: which was actually really inspiring to me. 663 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,320 Speaker 4: Heineken that paps blue ribbon? 664 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: All right, yeah, well, I mean it takes all beers. 665 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 4: Uh you know, I'm a PBR man. 666 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you are a PBR man. 667 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 2: But you know what, You can't build a hut out 668 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 2: of PBR cans. 669 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,720 Speaker 1: Oh well you could, it just wouldn't be as cool. 670 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: Now what the heck are we talking about? You may 671 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 1: be asking yourself. Tune in to find out. In the meantime, 672 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and. 673 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 2: We're about to roll out that Pinterest page. 674 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: I think that's I'm doing a vision board. I'm keeping 675 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:52,399 Speaker 1: an analog bro. 676 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 4: I really, yeah, you're done. You're off the net. 677 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,239 Speaker 1: No, the vision board at least is it's just it's 678 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: a wall in my house and I just paste up 679 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,720 Speaker 1: different pictures. I've been going through a laser tag phase. 680 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,720 Speaker 2: That's oh cool, like like like you're gonna go laser 681 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 2: tag fashion from here on out. 682 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 4: You're gonna come to work looking like Tron and stuff. 683 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: That would be cool. Are you in? You're interested in this? 684 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 4: Sure? Man, I'll try anything. You know, a bunch of times. 685 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: Awesome. 686 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 2: In the meantime, if you don't want to do any 687 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 2: of that stuff, which you should, you can also join 688 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 2: the Facebook group Ridiculous Historians, or you can send us 689 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 2: a good old fashion email at ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com. 690 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 691 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,720 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.