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Speaker 1: Have you seen the gas prices in California? Have you

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Speaker 1: seen the gas prices down the street?

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Speaker 2: Girl? They high.

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Speaker 1: If it's up, then it's up.

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Speaker 2: If it's up, then it's stuck. It's been pretty wild.

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Speaker 2: I guess I'm gonna have to start biking everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Come on over to the biking community.

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Speaker 2: I know that's your favorite thing to do. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to get on that bike.

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Speaker 1: You know, when gas prices start to go up, politicians

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Speaker 1: and policymakers start talking about alternative forms of energy, which

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Speaker 1: low key they should have been talking about anyway.

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Speaker 2: Right, huh huh. Because fossil fuels are a limited supply.

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Speaker 2: We will eventually run out of fossil fuels, so we

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Speaker 2: need some alternatives asap.

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Speaker 1: And one of those alternatives that often comes up is

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Speaker 1: nuclear energy.

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Speaker 2: H I love it.

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Speaker 1: I know that's right in your wheelhouse.

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Speaker 2: It absolutely is.

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Speaker 1: But I'm always like I think, I know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: quite sure.

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Speaker 2: You know a lot more than you think.

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Speaker 1: Well, prove it to me.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's my mission for today. I'm TT and I'm

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Speaker 2: Zachiah and from Spotify. This is Dope Labs.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that makes us,

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Speaker 1: hardcore science, pop culture, and a healthy dosa friendship.

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Speaker 2: This week, we're talking about nuclear energy, and there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of things about nuclear energy that I think people

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Speaker 2: don't know. We generally know that it's very powerful, but

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Speaker 2: we wanted to know specifically why it's so important, how

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Speaker 2: it's regulated, and more of the applications.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into the recitation, all right, Listen, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: ahead and tell you most of the things I know

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Speaker 1: about nuclear energy. I know a little bit from history,

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Speaker 1: but mostly for call of duty. Okay.

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Speaker 2: My friend is a gamer okay.

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Speaker 1: And then second is from Marvel and we've already talked

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Speaker 1: about this on Wakanda forever. Some of that stuff is

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Speaker 1: not real, so I'm gonna really need you to separate

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Speaker 1: back from fiction. For me, Tony Stark taught me a lot,

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Speaker 1: but how much of it is really true?

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Speaker 2: Yes? So because of that episode, we know a little

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Speaker 2: bit of the basics about nuclear energy. Where it comes from.

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Speaker 2: You know it comes from the nucleus of an atom,

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Speaker 2: but we really want to know a lot more, right,

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Speaker 2: And I think that is a great segue into what

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Speaker 2: do we want to know.

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Speaker 1: I know you're saying, yes, it comes from the nucleus

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Speaker 1: of an atom, But how do we get to it

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Speaker 1: a who's holding it? One atom? Multiple atoms at the

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Speaker 1: same time sequentially? I have a questions. And then what

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Speaker 1: about those halves if you're splitting them?

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Speaker 2: I think that's a very good question. I think I

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Speaker 2: want to know more about the history of nuclear energy.

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Speaker 2: I think I know a little bit of why we

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Speaker 2: first started looking into it, but I really want to

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Speaker 2: know why and what problem we were trying to solve

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Speaker 2: and how we got to where we are today.

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Speaker 1: And like so many things, what's the potential, what's next?

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Speaker 1: How is this being regulated? How do we ensure that

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Speaker 1: it's equitable access to something if it has all the

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Speaker 1: potential folks are saying it has. Okay, let's jump into

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Speaker 1: the dissection. Our guest for today's lab is doctor Marina

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Speaker 1: Robinson Snowden.

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Speaker 3: My name is doctor Marina Robinson Snowden.

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Speaker 4: I'm a senior engineer at the Johns Hopkins Applyve Physics Laboratory.

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Speaker 2: Like we said, we talked about the basics of nuclear

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Speaker 2: energy in our episode Wakonda Forever, but we act doctor

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Speaker 2: Snowden to take us back to high school physics class

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Speaker 2: and explain to us the anatomy of an atom.

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Speaker 4: So you have protons and neutrons that are in the nucleus, right,

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Speaker 4: and then outside of that nucleus you have electrons and

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Speaker 4: inside of that atom, it takes a lot of energy

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Speaker 4: to keep all of those different pieces together.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Atoms are the building blocks of all things.

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Speaker 2: And just like doctor Snowden said, you have your nucleus

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Speaker 2: of your atom, and that has neutrons and protons and

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Speaker 2: they're all packed together really tightly, and then spinning around

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Speaker 2: that nucleus is all of these electrons.

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Speaker 1: If you think about how all of that energy is

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Speaker 1: holding those things together, the vibes are definitely right. We

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Speaker 1: want to start thinking about how to capture and use

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Speaker 1: that energy. Doctor Snowden says, there are a couple different ways.

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Speaker 4: So the first is something that I think we're all

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Speaker 4: familiar with, which is kind of chemical reactions. So a

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Speaker 4: chemical reaction is something where you are trying to remove

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Speaker 4: an electron from an electron shell, right, So you're trying

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Speaker 4: to kick off an electron from that atom package.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's chemical.

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Speaker 2: So think of fossil fuels. Burning fossil fuels is a

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Speaker 2: chemical reaction, and so you take that fuel and igniting

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Speaker 2: it kicks off the chemical reaction. That's what's happening in

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Speaker 2: our cars that aren't electric, you know, they're using gas

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Speaker 2: from the pump. Those are fossil fuels, and when you

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Speaker 2: turn your key, there's an ignition and that sets that

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Speaker 2: fuel on fire. And what it does is produce a

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Speaker 2: lot of heat, and that heat is the energy that

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Speaker 2: is released from this reaction.

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Speaker 1: The byproduct of these reactions where we're burning that fuel

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Speaker 1: are carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide, hydrocarbons, nitric oxide, microparticles,

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of other environmentally unsafe compounds just you

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Speaker 1: name it. Okay, the list goes on, and this is

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Speaker 1: where we kind of get into greenhouse gas emissions and

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Speaker 1: climate change.

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Speaker 2: So in some scenarios you can access chemical energy through

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Speaker 2: combustion or burning things. And another way is by leveraging

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Speaker 2: all that energy that's holding the nucleus together, aka nuclear energy.

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Speaker 4: So some really smart people decades and decades ago, thought

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Speaker 4: how can we leverage the energy that's inside of the

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Speaker 4: nucleus and also inside of the atom itself. When you're

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Speaker 4: thinking about nuclear we're not talking about electrons now, we're

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Speaker 4: down in the nucleus, right, nuclear nucleus, that's what it means.

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Speaker 4: So you're dealing with reactions that are happening inside of

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Speaker 4: that central package in the atom. And the thing that's

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Speaker 4: important to know is the energy levels when you compare

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Speaker 4: chemical reactions to nuclear reactions, are like a million times stronger.

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Speaker 4: The amount of energy that it takes to keep those

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Speaker 4: protons together is a million times stronger than it takes

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Speaker 4: to keep the electron in the atom.

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Speaker 1: And because chemical reactions are not as strong, we need

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Speaker 1: a lot more fuel to burn.

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Speaker 4: So that's why nuclear energy is so promising because if

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Speaker 4: you can find a way to break those nuclei apart

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Speaker 4: and harness that energy, you can do things like create electricity,

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Speaker 4: and you.

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Speaker 2: Can do it by using way less fuel. So that

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Speaker 2: sounds really promising, right, But how is nuclear energy access?

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Speaker 2: Doctor Snowden talked to us about the two ways this happens,

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Speaker 2: fission and fusion.

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Speaker 3: And fission is exactly as it sounds.

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Speaker 4: You are trying to take a nucleus and break it apart,

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Speaker 4: and when you rip it apart or break it apart,

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Speaker 4: there's an energy release that's associated with that. That's what

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Speaker 4: happens inside of nuclear reactors. So we're taking uranium or

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Speaker 4: plutonium fuel, which are radioactive materials. We're doing a nuclear

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Speaker 4: process on them to force those nuclei to break apart

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Speaker 4: and give us that energy because we need that energy

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Speaker 4: to create the heat to create the electricity downstream.

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Speaker 2: So what's happening in a nuclear reactor this fission process

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Speaker 2: is it's a pretty simple process, but it's complex because

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Speaker 2: it takes a lot of energy. So a neutron hits

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Speaker 2: a uranium atom and that neutron causes the nucleus of

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Speaker 2: the uranium atom to split. So when that fission happens,

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Speaker 2: that split that nucleus, it releases a large amount of

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Speaker 2: energy as heat. And as it's splitting, you remember we

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Speaker 2: said that there are neutrons in the nucleus. As it splits,

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Speaker 2: more neutrons are also coming off and then going and

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Speaker 2: hitting another uranium atom and causing fission with that atom.

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Speaker 2: So it's a chain reaction. All of these reactions produce energy,

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Speaker 2: and that energy it produces is heat. Once the heat

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Speaker 2: is generated, it turns the water that is in the

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Speaker 2: nuclear reactor system into steam, and then that steam starts

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Speaker 2: spinning turbines, and those turbines generate electricity all carbon free.

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Speaker 4: The United States gets something like twenty percent of our

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Speaker 4: electricity from reactors. Globally it is something like eleven percent.

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Speaker 1: That's a really big percentage, and it feels really important.

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Speaker 1: And those are a lot of moving parts you just

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Speaker 1: describe TT. Yeah, and doctor Snowden is driving home just

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Speaker 1: how important those reactors are. H and all is making

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Speaker 1: me think is that Osha or somebody should have come

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Speaker 1: and stepped in in the town of Springfield because Homer

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Speaker 1: symptom was reckless at his reactions. This is all such

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Speaker 1: an intricate process. And that's just fission. Right when the

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Speaker 1: nucleus is being pulled apart. What about fusion? What's happening there?

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Speaker 4: The second approach, though, is fusion where instead of trying

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Speaker 4: to break the nuclei apart, you're actually trying to smash

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Speaker 4: them together. And in that same way, to take lighter

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Speaker 4: nuclei and smash them together, there's an associated energy release.

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Speaker 3: In order to get them to actually bind, they have

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Speaker 3: to give up energy.

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Speaker 4: So that energy that's given up is the same thing

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Speaker 4: that we're after. We're always after the energy release, whether

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Speaker 4: we're talking about burning fuel, fissioning fuel, or fusing fuel.

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Speaker 1: And I'd love to do a detailed example of how

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Speaker 1: fusion works, but we haven't quite messed with that yet.

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Speaker 1: Fusion is still an experimental technology. Scientists and researchers are

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Speaker 1: still trying to figure it out. But it seems like

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Speaker 1: fission and fusion are both viable from a climate change

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Speaker 1: perspective because they eliminate a lot of those greenhouse gas

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Speaker 1: emissions we see with kimo cool energy and combustion and burning.

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Speaker 2: Yes, in the US we have ninety three nuclear reactors

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Speaker 2: up and running right now, which is the most in

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Speaker 2: the world. France is in second place with fifty six.

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Speaker 1: They can't compete where they don't compas or whatever that's

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Speaker 1: saying is.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Snowden said that the United States gets about twenty

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Speaker 1: percent of our energy from reactors. But what does that mean?

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Speaker 1: How much energy is that twenty percent of?

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Speaker 4: What?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: How is it measured? Right?

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Speaker 2: So that twenty percent of electricity generated that she told

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Speaker 2: us about is about seven hundred and ninety thousand gigawatt hours?

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Speaker 2: That doesn't really mean much.

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Speaker 1: Okay, when I'm typically looking at a light build that's

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Speaker 1: in like killowatt hours, and I think we can start

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Speaker 1: with the prefixes, right, Yeah, killo just means a thousand,

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Speaker 1: So a kilowatt is one thousand watts, and that's a

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Speaker 1: measure of power. But a kilowatt hour is a measurement

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Speaker 1: of energy. So that's how much energy something that takes

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Speaker 1: one thousand watts needs in order to rent for an hour.

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Speaker 1: So it's like a rate almost.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's the difference between power and energy. Energy is

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Speaker 2: power and then a unit of time.

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Speaker 1: So that's like miles versus miles per hour.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so you go from a distance to a distance

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Speaker 2: per time, and that gives you a speed.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So now I understand the unit and the measure,

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Speaker 1: give me something to anchor it to.

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Speaker 2: So for example, a typical electric dishwasher uses about two

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Speaker 2: kilowat hours per load.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I got that a Nissan.

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Speaker 2: Leaf electric car uses forty kilo why hours when fully charged.

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Speaker 1: But you told us that doctor Snowden was telling us

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Speaker 1: about seven hundred and ninety thousand gigaway hours. So a

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Speaker 1: kilo why hour is one thousand watts of power over

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Speaker 1: an hour. A gigawatt hour is one million killowat hours.

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Speaker 2: So we go from kilowatts. So that's one thousand, there's megawats,

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Speaker 2: so we're gonna skip over that. That's in the millions.

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Speaker 2: Now we're at gigawatts. That's in the billions of watts

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Speaker 2: per hour.

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Speaker 1: And so for those billion watts per hour, so that's

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Speaker 1: gigawatt per hour, there are seven hundred and ninety thousand

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Speaker 1: of those.

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Speaker 2: Seven hundred and ninety thousand of those billions.

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Speaker 1: Turn everything off.

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Speaker 2: Right, I'm turning off my computer right now, goodbye. But

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Speaker 2: that still only makes up a fraction of US consumption.

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Speaker 2: Remember that's only twenty percent, So I'm not gonna do

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Speaker 2: the multiplication. I'm gonna let y'all do the multiplication because

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Speaker 2: now we're getting into numbers that I cannot say. A

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Speaker 2: gigawatt hour is a unit of energy that is one

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Speaker 2: billion kilowatts of power sustained for one hour. In twenty twenty,

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Speaker 2: the US consumed trillions. That's t r trillions of gigawatt hours.

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Speaker 2: We produce nuclear energy in the billions of kilowatt hours,

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Speaker 2: but we consume electricity in the trillions of kilowatt hours.

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Speaker 1: All of this sounds great, right. It's a way to

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Speaker 1: generate electricity that doesn't give us the negative effects of

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Speaker 1: greenhouse gases, but I just noticed it not so fast.

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Speaker 1: There are some other things that we need to be worried.

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Speaker 4: About, but that doesn't mean that this is free lunch,

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Speaker 4: right There are risks associated with nuclear technology, and one

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Speaker 4: of the big risks is the waste that's produced at

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Speaker 4: the end of the day. So when you split a

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Speaker 4: nucleus apart, you create these things called fission products, daughter products,

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Speaker 4: those are some of the names that they're use. So

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Speaker 4: that's like the waste, and these things are highly radioactive.

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Speaker 3: For a long time.

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Speaker 4: So there's questions about what is the long term disposal

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Speaker 4: strategy for this waste, because there's a couple of different options.

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Speaker 4: You can bury it deep inside of a hole right

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Speaker 4: right now. We store it kind of in these spent

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Speaker 4: fuel storage pools outside of reactors, but that's not a

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Speaker 4: long term solution. But the politics of nuclear waste and

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Speaker 4: spent fuel are non trivial. We've been battling them for

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Speaker 4: decades and that's one of the key obstacles. And the

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Speaker 4: second risk with nuclear fuel that people really think about

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Speaker 4: kind of kitchen table issue is you know the risk

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Speaker 4: of a catastrophic accident.

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Speaker 2: And we've seen catastrophic accidents occur a few times, one

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Speaker 2: in Fukushima in twenty eleven, after an earthquake three Mile

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Speaker 2: Island in nineteen seventy nine, which happened right here in

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Speaker 2: the United States, an Chernobyl in nineteen eighty six because

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Speaker 2: of a flawed reactor and errors in the actions of

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Speaker 2: the technicians, and the event in Chernobyl was so long

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Speaker 2: it was releasing radioactive material into the atmosphere for ten days,

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Speaker 2: and it made it so that to this day, about

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Speaker 2: one thy six hundred square miles surrounding that that nuclear

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Speaker 2: reactor where the accident happened is still not allowed to

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Speaker 2: be inhabited. Sixteen hundred square miles is about three times

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Speaker 2: the size of Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I remember from Call of Duty. They

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Speaker 1: drop you into that zone, they put you in Chernobyl. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's all these abandoned buildings and things in the grass

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Speaker 1: has overgrown on this stuff because it hasn't been inhabited

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Speaker 1: for so long.

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Speaker 2: Y'all gotta chill.

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Speaker 1: Children should not be playing. That should not only the guns,

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Speaker 1: but also the atmosphere.

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Speaker 2: Cheeze. OK, that's crazy.

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Speaker 1: So, even though there are a lot of these potential

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Speaker 1: upsides with nuclear energy, Like TT mentioned, there are some

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Speaker 1: risks involved too.

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Speaker 4: Risks, they say, is the probability of the event, the

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Speaker 4: consequences of the event, and the vulnerability of the asset.

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Speaker 4: So even though the probability is very low, the consequences

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Speaker 4: are so high. Radioactive fallout contaminating large swaths of areas,

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Speaker 4: you have families displaced. There can be like generational impacts

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Speaker 4: if there is a catas graphic accident. So those are

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Speaker 4: some of the things that policymakers communities that are thinking about.

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Speaker 3: Hosting these facilities.

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Speaker 4: Right, whether we're talking about the reactor itself or the

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Speaker 4: repository for the spent fuel, these are the things that

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Speaker 4: they have to think about in terms of kind of

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Speaker 4: the near term and long term benefits of the technology

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Speaker 4: balance that with the risk.

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Speaker 1: When we talk about nuclear energy and splitting an atom

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Speaker 1: and uranium plutonium. I think about radiation in the way

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Speaker 1: I learned about it in the lab, and I remember

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Speaker 1: when I first was going through training to work with radiation,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, so worried and so you know,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's important for people to understand that

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Speaker 1: not all radiation is the same. There's a spectrum.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we're surrounded by radiation every day. You know, microwaves,

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Speaker 2: radio waves, everything, But there are big differences between a

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Speaker 2: microwave from your microwave and radiation that is potentially harmful

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Speaker 2: to you. And I think once you have a grasp

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Speaker 2: of that, then you can understand, Okay, what does this

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Speaker 2: mean for nuclear energy? What does this mean for the

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Speaker 2: byproducts and offshoots of these processes, and what's harmful and

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Speaker 2: what's not. Could you tell us a little bit more

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Speaker 2: about the harmful factors to consider. So, the difference between

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Speaker 2: a microwave and radiation, which is called ionizing radiation, so

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Speaker 2: that's the type of radiation that is potentially dangerous, is

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Speaker 2: the wavelength. So when you're talking about microwaves, radio waves

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Speaker 2: and things like that, these are literal waves that are

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Speaker 2: so long, So that means that they're really tall and

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Speaker 2: really deep, and the distance from one peak wave to

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Speaker 2: the next peak wave is really long. So when you

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Speaker 2: think about it, it's too big to be able to

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Speaker 2: really interact with atoms or your cells.

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Speaker 4: Because the energy the wavelength is so large relative to

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Speaker 4: the size of your cells.

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Speaker 3: You good, you, goujie.

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Speaker 2: But when we start talking about ionizing radiation, those waves

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Speaker 2: are really tight and tiny. So they're so small, so

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Speaker 2: tight and so tiny that they have the ability to

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Speaker 2: really get up close and personal with the cells in

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Speaker 2: your body. They just touching all over them, and they

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Speaker 2: can do a lot of damage.

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Speaker 1: And so exposure to that harmful ionizing radiation is what

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Speaker 1: happened when we saw these accidents at nuclear reactors, so

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Speaker 1: at three mile, at Chernobyl, at Fukushima. This is not

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Speaker 1: the same as microwave waves. This is not the same.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so heat up to your hot pocket, You'll be

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Speaker 2: all right.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's so important for people to understand

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Speaker 1: like where we are on this scale, both in size

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Speaker 1: of wave and in potential harm yep. And so I

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Speaker 1: think that's a great way to think about risk, right,

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Speaker 1: not just oh, a thing could happen, but how likely

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Speaker 1: is it to happen, and if it happens, how devastating

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Speaker 1: are the events? But also if we remove this from

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Speaker 1: the equation overall, what does this mean for our electricity grid?

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Speaker 1: What does that mean for day to day life in America?

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Speaker 2: That's a really good point because in twenty twenty, forty

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Speaker 2: percent of the US's electricity came from natural gas twenty

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Speaker 2: one percent came from renewables, so that's when hydrosolar, biomass, geothermal,

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Speaker 2: and twenty percent came from nuclear and nineteen percent came

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Speaker 2: from call.

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Speaker 4: You need kind of a constant energy source, something that

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Speaker 4: can always run. There's these kind of classic lines about

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Speaker 4: the wind doesn't always blow, the sun doesn't always shine.

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Speaker 4: So those renewable sources there is a temporal component to them,

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Speaker 4: whereas with a reactor, once you've built it and you've

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Speaker 4: gotten the core up and running, it can go for

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Speaker 4: you know, a long time, and that.

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Speaker 3: Can be kind of your assured energy.

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Speaker 1: Source and tc. This is on something that we say

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Speaker 1: all the time, yep, Right, A lot of problems are

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Speaker 1: not solved by one single solution, but there are multiple

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Speaker 1: things working in lockstep to give you a reinforced solution.

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Speaker 1: So even if one fails, you have some backups.

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Speaker 4: So I think the idea is to have a diverse

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Speaker 4: fire portfolio with the lowest carbon footprint possible and being

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Speaker 4: able to balance these near term and long term risk

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Speaker 4: and benefits with the you know, global society in a

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Speaker 4: way that mirrors our values today. Right, So you think

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Speaker 4: about nuclear energy now versus then we have very vibrant

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Speaker 4: conversations around equity and justice.

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Speaker 3: So if we're talking.

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Speaker 4: About where is this fuel being mined, where is this

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Speaker 4: spent fuel being deposited, we have to think about whose

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Speaker 4: communities are these, what seat do they have at the table.

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Speaker 4: So you're seeing administration starting to adopt a lot of

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Speaker 4: this language and this perspective on the way that we

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Speaker 4: need to make energy policy. And it's different than kind

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Speaker 4: of the nature of the conversations in the sixties and

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Speaker 4: the seventies and the eighties. So it's about a balanced approach,

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Speaker 4: but you can see there's changes to the conversation.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so we've talked about nuclear energy and how it

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Speaker 2: can be used to possibly replace some more harmful forms

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Speaker 2: of fuel, but that's not why this form of energy

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Speaker 2: harvesting was originally looked into.

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Speaker 4: The origin of our nuclear story really starts in World

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Speaker 4: War Two, when the international community was trying to grapple

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Speaker 4: with a rising Nazi power.

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Speaker 3: You had Adolf Hitler.

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Speaker 4: You saw the expansion and the genocide that he was

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Speaker 4: inflicting on Europe, and at that time, you know, the

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Speaker 4: nineteen thirties was a really active time from a nuclear perspective.

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Speaker 3: We were discovering stuff, y'all. We discovered fission. We discovered

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Speaker 3: the chain reaction, which.

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Speaker 4: Means like you could sustain fission, you could have sustained

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Speaker 4: energy output.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't just the one and done right. At the same.

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Speaker 4: Time, there was a significant worry that the Nazis were

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Speaker 4: trying to develop a weapon that leveraged the nuclear reactions

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Speaker 4: that we talked about. We were really worried about the

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Speaker 4: Nazis pursuing that technology. And it was actually Albert Einstein

404
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Speaker 4: that wrote a letter to FDR at the time alerting

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Speaker 4: him of this. Right, let me put you up on game.

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Speaker 4: From a scientific perspective, these things are happening. They could

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Speaker 4: potentially use it for this I think we need to

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Speaker 4: figure out.

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Speaker 3: What we want to do.

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Speaker 4: And the response of the US government was to establish

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Speaker 4: what was called the Manhattan Project. So we decided we

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Speaker 4: got to beat them to this technology. If this bomb

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Speaker 4: is a real thing, we got to be the first

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Speaker 4: to have it.

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Speaker 1: The Manhattan Project was started in nineteen forty two by

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Speaker 1: the US government and it was also supported by the

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Speaker 1: UK and Canadian governments as well to develop nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 1: You know, this started as a really small project, but

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Speaker 1: it grew to cost two billion dollars and employ over

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Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty thousand people. There were project sites

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Speaker 1: all over the three countries, and these project sites had

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Speaker 1: not only research but testing as well.

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Speaker 4: And we can debate if that was the right policy decision,

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Speaker 4: because I think as an engineer that's been participating more

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Speaker 4: and more in the policy discussions, it's really important to

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Speaker 4: acknowledge where choice lies.

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Speaker 3: None of these things are inevitable.

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Speaker 4: We have choices in the policy that we make, right,

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Speaker 4: So we made a choice to invest in beating.

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Speaker 3: The Nazis to a nuclear bomb.

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Speaker 4: We established the Manhattan Project and really the first reactors

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Speaker 4: that we saw on the scene were built in order

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Speaker 4: to produce the plutonium fuel that was needed for the bombs.

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Speaker 4: So it was only after the war ended, and again

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Speaker 4: there was a policy decision. We tested the first nuclear

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Speaker 4: weapon on the Trinity Site in Nevada in July of

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Speaker 4: nineteen forty five. Not a month later did we drop it,

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Speaker 4: drop two bombs on the people of Japan. And there's

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Speaker 4: an active historical debate about why we did that, why

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Speaker 4: we did it in that way, Did it actually stop

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Speaker 4: the war?

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Speaker 1: Right?

443
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 3: There's a lot of narratives, but once we decided to

444
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 3: do that and the war was over.

445
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 4: You saw the international community shift from Okay, we have

446
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 4: this technology now, right, we've discovered fission. We have these reactors.

447
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 4: What if there's a role for them beyond nuclear weapons.

448
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 4: It's just an energy sources, the way to make heat.

449
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 4: But it makes heat a lot more efficiently than fossil fuels, right,

450
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 4: or the other energy sources we had at the time.

451
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 4: And remember we're talking like nineteen forty five fifty, so

452
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 4: you saw the international community shift to this conversation of

453
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 4: using these atoms for peace. And there's a key speech

454
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 4: that President Eisenhower gave in nineteen fifty three called the

455
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 4: Atoms for Peace Speech, where he said, how do we

456
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 4: take these atoms from atoms of war to atoms for

457
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 4: peace and use this energy source as a way to

458
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 4: empower and enable society.

459
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 5: The atomic age has moved forward at such a pace

460
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 5: that every citizen of the world should have some comprehension

461
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 5: of the extent of this development. If the peoples of

462
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 5: the world are to conduct an intelligence search for peace,

463
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 5: they must be armed with a significant facts of today's.

464
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: So, because they didn't want to create a world where

465
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: nuclear bombs were all over the place and ready for use.

466
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 2: Governments decided to use this power for good, not evil.

467
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: But let's take a quick break and when we get back,

468
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: we'll talk more about nuclear energy policy and what we're

469
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 2: going to do moving forward. We're back, and although we're

470
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 2: talking about energy and nuclear energy specifically this week, next

471
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 2: week we're digging deeper into the core of the earth

472
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 2: and talking about metals, precious metals, abundant metals, you name it.

473
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 2: Our guest expert is chemist doctor Kate Buner, and we

474
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 2: can't wait for you to hear this one. So we've

475
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: talked about the bad and the ugly parts of the

476
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: history of nuclear energy, but let's get into the good.

477
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 2: Eisenhower gave his speech, but then what So.

478
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 4: From the very beginning, the conversation was about how do

479
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 4: we promote the use of nuclear energy while also controlling

480
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 4: the use, because what we did not want to do

481
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 4: was to give a country reactor technology, to consult with

482
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 4: them on expertise, only to see that country use that

483
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 4: technology to fuel their own military nuclear program. That was

484
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 4: not in the US interests nor the global interest, at

485
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 4: least at the time of the discussion. So you saw

486
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 4: the establishment of some key organizations. Chief among them was

487
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 4: the International Atomic Energy Agency what's known as the IAEA,

488
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 4: and the IAEA was established in nineteen fifty seven to

489
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 4: do exactly what Eisenhower said, how do we promote and

490
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 4: control There was a key treaty that we have to

491
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 4: know about. It's called the Nuclear non Proliferation Treaty. The

492
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 4: Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. For everyone who signs it, they agree

493
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 4: not to proliferate nuclear technology, meaning I'm not going to

494
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 4: use my peaceful reactor to start my military nuclear weapons program.

495
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: So when this treaty was signed, there were five countries

496
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: that already had nuclear weapons, the United States, Russia, France,

497
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: the UK, and China, and they all agreed to eventually

498
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: disarm in good faith.

499
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 4: So at the time, we all agreed we did not

500
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 4: want a world with nuclear weapons and we should work

501
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 4: towards a world without it. So once you sign on

502
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 4: to this agreement, there's a very heavy on site inspection

503
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 4: regime where the IEA comes in and they do comprehensive

504
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 4: inspections of all your different reactor facilities, all your nuclear facilities, reactors, enrichment,

505
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 4: spent fuel pools, everything to make sure that you are

506
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 4: not moving material from one place to another. Their main

507
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 4: objective is to catch the diversion of nuclear material in

508
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 4: time enough to respond.

509
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 2: So now that the treaty is signed and countries are

510
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: no longer developing nuclear weapons with their reactors, there became

511
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 2: lots of different ways countries could start working together to

512
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: share resources to produce use nuclear energy. Because spoiler alert

513
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 2: nuclear reactors are expensive to build, and not everyone has

514
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 2: the coins allocated for something like.

515
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 4: That, So when you're talking about these developing nations, it

516
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 4: may not be in their ability at the time to

517
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 4: finance a capital project like that, so you can have,

518
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 4: you know, a more privileged nation come in and build

519
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 4: that system. The idea though, is that they would allow inspection.

520
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 4: They would allow those ie inspectors to come in and

521
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 4: make sure it's being used for its intended purpose.

522
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: And beyond just building. Another piece of the puzzle is

523
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: having the fuel the uranium, plutonium, et cetera that you

524
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: outlined earlier TT Not everyone has that, so they may

525
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: need to run over to a neighbor's for a cup

526
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: of uranium.

527
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 4: It's not automatic that everybody needs to have every stage

528
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 4: of that fuel cycle in their country.

529
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 3: So you can have a country.

530
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 4: That has a reactor, but maybe they don't have the

531
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 4: enrichment capability. Maybe they don't have the ability to take

532
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 4: uranium or out of the ground.

533
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:01,479
Speaker 3: Every country doesn't need to have that.

534
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 4: Maybe we go into a trade agreement where I will

535
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 4: provide that fuel to you and you just run it

536
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 4: in a reactor, and then maybe I take the spent

537
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 4: fuel from you in the back end. So there's been

538
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 4: different configurations within these trade agreements or within these kind

539
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 4: of energy export agreements that will allow certain parts of

540
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 4: the fuel cycle and others. Ionizing radiation means it is

541
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 4: energetic enough to remove an electron from your atoms. That's

542
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 4: what it means to be ionizing. You can kick off

543
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 4: an electron. If a gamma ray comes in or a

544
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,239
Speaker 4: high energy neutron comes in, it has enough energy in

545
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 4: it to actually start removing electrons from your cells.

546
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: You know, we come in contact with ionizing radiation in

547
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: very specific ways that is under the supervision of a

548
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 2: medical professional, like X rays. A lot of people have

549
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: gone in for X rays, but if you have, you

550
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: know that parts of your body is covered with lead

551
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 2: to try and block the parts of your body that

552
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 2: you don't want. X ray to keep them from being exposed,

553
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: and you're not exposed for very long. So even though

554
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: we have been exposed to ionizing radiation, when we go

555
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: in for an X ray, the dose is so low

556
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 2: that we don't feel any effects and our cells are

557
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 2: able to live and thrive.

558
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: And what you're covering when you do that are those

559
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: tissues that have cells that are constantly regenerating themselves or

560
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,959
Speaker 1: that are replicating, which is your breast tissue, your stomach,

561
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: which is your gut lining and GI tract, and your

562
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: ovaries if you have them. Because those things are constantly

563
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: regenerating themselves, you're not making new arm you know what

564
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,479
Speaker 1: I mean. You're not making new arm meat, and so

565
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: those things don't have to be protected in the same way.

566
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 4: An important piece that I wanted to highlight is the

567
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 4: gendered component to the biological impact of radiation for women,

568
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 4: because we have more high turnover organs relative to our

569
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 4: male counterparts. Right, like I said, we have breasts, we

570
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 4: have ovaries. What are the type of cancers that generate

571
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 4: their right breast cancer or variant cancer, So we have

572
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 4: a disproportionate impact when we talk about the effects of radiation.

573
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 4: If any of us were to be in a nuclear

574
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 4: blast or working as a reactor operator and there was

575
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 4: an accident and we got a full body dose, those

576
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 4: high turnover cellular systems would be exposed, and it's a

577
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 4: vulnerability that we have that's unique to our male counterparty.

578
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 2: I think that one of the things that I found

579
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: surprising in making this lab was how many nuclear reactors

580
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: there are. And doctor Snowden was talking about weighing the

581
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 2: risks with the benefits and things like that, and so

582
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: then we have to start thinking if nuclear energy is

583
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: something that we want to use moving forward as one

584
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: of our possibly main sources for electricity, that might possibly

585
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: mean more nuclear reactors, and so that risk will always

586
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 2: be there. But I think as scientists are working in

587
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: these reactors with the safety precautions that are in place,

588
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: I think are really great and the likelihood of an

589
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: accident is super super low. But I think it's exciting

590
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 2: also because when we think about climate change and the

591
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: train that's barreling down towards us, we have to start

592
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: really locking into these alternative forms of energy to help

593
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: save us. All.

594
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, it's time for the one thing. What's

595
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: your one thing? This week.

596
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 2: Tt My one thing this week actually came from a

597
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 2: Doe Blabs listener. Their name is Kristin Thomas and they

598
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 2: are actually a part of the US rugby team. Okay,

599
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 2: what yes, the US women's rugby team, And are they

600
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: trying to recruit you possitively? You know, I'm a little strong, Simes.

601
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: But on their Instagram they had made a post about

602
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,719
Speaker 2: having some shoes that they weren't using anymore, and so

603
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: they cleaned them up and instead of throwing them in

604
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: the trash, they packaged them up and sent them to

605
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: this really cool company called Soul's for Soul and they

606
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,239
Speaker 2: take your un want to clothes and shoes and they

607
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 2: give them to folks and needs. So I mean, you

608
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 2: shouldn't send it in shoes that you know, I have

609
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 2: holes in or anything like that, but really shoes that

610
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 2: you know might be a little bit worn but are

611
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 2: still usable. So I think that's a great way to

612
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 2: reuse a pair of shoes rather than putting them in

613
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 2: the trash and then they end up in the landfill.

614
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: And you know, shoes have all of these plastic and

615
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 2: rubber that then further contaminates our world. Give them somebody

616
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: who can use them. So that is my plan, is

617
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 2: that I'm going to be packaging up a few pairs

618
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 2: of shoes that I don't wear anymore and sending them

619
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 2: to Soles for sol so you can follow them on Instagram.

620
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 2: It's s O L E S the number four s

621
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: O U l S Soles for Soal.

622
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: That sounds great. I have plenty of shoes that I

623
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: could get right on out the door and give another home.

624
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 2: What's your one thing?

625
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: My one thing this week is really touching into your domain.

626
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: Tt uh okay, let's hear it. Okay, so you know

627
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: how I like to chep it up in the kit.

628
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: I was reading this article about this group of scientists

629
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: in Maryland who have produced basically a knife. But it's

630
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: not a knife like a steel knife or a ceramic knife.

631
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: It's made out of hardened wood. What. Yes, And they're

632
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 1: saying that it's sharper than a steel knife.

633
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: Is it gonna put splinters in my food?

634
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: Oh? I don't know about that. But they're saying that

635
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: this hardened wood. I don't know what they did to it.

636
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: They're saying it is twenty three times harder than like

637
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: the natural wood. I don't know how they're developing it.

638
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: I haven't read all into it. It was like a

639
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: little skim bullet. But you know, are we about to

640
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: go back to the wooden tool? You know what?

641
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 2: I kind of love that, I do. I do?

642
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I'd like to see it, you know,

643
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: like that that meme, like I'd like to see it.

644
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 2: I'd like to see it.

645
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like to see it.

646
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: I think that's amazing.

647
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, what type of material science? And that's from

648
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: the Department of Mechanical Engineering at the University of Maryland.

649
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 2: That's very cool. I know it to get you for

650
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: your birthday.

651
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: All right, that's it for Lab sixty. Call us at

652
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight

653
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: and tell us what you thought. Also, you can call

654
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: and give us an idea for a different lab you

655
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: think we should do. Remember we like hearing from you.

656
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: You can call or text us at two zero two

657
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: five six seven seven zero two.

658
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 2: Eight and don't forget that. There is so much more

659
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 2: to dig into on our website. There'll be a cheat

660
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: cheat for today's lab, additional links and resources in the

661
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 2: show notes. Plus you can sign up for our newsletter.

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Speaker 2: Check it out at Dope labspodcast dot com special thanks

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Speaker 2: to today's guest expert, doctor Marina Robinson Snowden.

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Speaker 1: You can find her on Twitter at m R O

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Speaker 1: b I N s n O w SO M Robin

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Speaker 1: snow or check out her website at www dot Marina

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Speaker 1: Robinson Snowden dot com.

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Speaker 2: And you can find us on Twitter and install at

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Speaker 2: Dope Labs podcast.

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Speaker 1: TT's on Twitter and Instagram at d R Underscore t SHO.

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Speaker 2: And you can find Zakia at z said So. Dope

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Speaker 2: Labs is a Spotify original production from Mega Owned Media Group.

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Speaker 1: Our producers are Jenny Radlett Mast and Lydia Smith of

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Speaker 1: Wave Runner Studios. Our associate producer from Mega Oh Media

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Speaker 1: is Brianna Garrett.

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Speaker 2: Editing in sound design by Rob Smerciak.

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Speaker 1: Mixing by Hannes Brown.

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Speaker 2: Original music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex

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Speaker 2: Sugier from Spotify. Executive producer Corin Gilliard and creative producer

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Speaker 2: Miguel Contreras.

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Speaker 1: Special thanks to Shirley Ramos, Jess Borison, yasmin afifikmu Elolia,

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Speaker 1: tillkrat Key and Brian Marquis. Executive producers from Mega Oh

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Speaker 1: Media Group are us t T show Dia and Zakiah

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Speaker 1: Wattley