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Speaker 1: Hey, hoor hey, I thought of a new genre of movies.

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Speaker 1: Oh nice, Does it involve banana punts? Sadly, no, I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking of a mashup of science fiction in your classic

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Speaker 1: bank heist genre. Oh you mean you want to steal

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Speaker 1: some science fiction books? Or is it mostly about portraying

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Speaker 1: physicists as cool thieves. I'm thinking about thieves that use

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Speaker 1: science fiction to steal stuff, like opening a wormhole into

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Speaker 1: a bank vault. Don't doesn't Marvel do that already? Marvel

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Speaker 1: does everything. The wizards count as scientists more. Instead of

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Speaker 1: being a science thieve, you could maybe use science fiction

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Speaker 1: to protect your valuable stuff. Oh I like that. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I could hide all my gold inside a black hole. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You might never see it, but it'll be safe. At

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Speaker 1: least I'll know that it's growing in there. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: guess it's a crewing, isn't it. It's a creating interest.

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Speaker 1: It's compounding for sure. Hi. I'm or handmade cartoonists and

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Speaker 1: the creator of PhD comics. Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a

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Speaker 1: particle physicist and a professor at UC Irvine, And sadly,

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Speaker 1: I have no skills that can contribute to a bank

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Speaker 1: heist and not even driving. You can't drive. You could

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Speaker 1: be the getaway driver on a spaceship. Maybe I'm a

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Speaker 1: very very safe driver, so I'd be like stopping at

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Speaker 1: all the crosswalks, you know, observing all the traffic rules. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're fired, Daniel. From my high stand, I can't say

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry about that. But wouldn't physicists be good at

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Speaker 1: planning to heist? You know? Aren't you good at like,

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Speaker 1: you know, thinking things through and being analytical and you know,

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Speaker 1: being detailed oriented. Yeah, I can make a university budget

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Speaker 1: for our bank heist that includes like head rate and

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Speaker 1: stretches out over five years. That sounds great. Yeah, Or

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Speaker 1: you could write the grand proposal for startup ones, you know,

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Speaker 1: to the mafia. What experts are they going to get

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Speaker 1: to review that? They're all in jail, you know, so

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Speaker 1: they're easy to get to. You could apply to the

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Speaker 1: National Stealing Foundation. But anyways, welcome to our podcast Daniel

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Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio in which we attempt to steal all of the

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Speaker 1: jewels of knowledge that the universe has hidden away here

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Speaker 1: and there we take your mind to the inside of

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Speaker 1: black holes. We dropped them through wormholes and do crazy

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Speaker 1: new locations in the universe. We try to snatch all

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Speaker 1: the juicy tidbits that explain how the universe actually works,

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Speaker 1: have it got to be the way that it is,

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Speaker 1: and what it's crazy future holds, and we explain all

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Speaker 1: of them to you. Yeah, because it is a pretty

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Speaker 1: amazing universe full of incredible and valuable discoveries out there

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Speaker 1: just sitting there, just waiting for a crafty physicist to

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Speaker 1: crack the safe and get to all the shiny knowledge.

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Speaker 1: I like thinking of the secrets of the universe as valuable,

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Speaker 1: like I could auction them off as n f T

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Speaker 1: s or something. You would profit from the East, Daniel,

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't just be like a robbin hood physicist where

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Speaker 1: you steal from the universe and then you you distributed

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Speaker 1: to people in need. Well, that's the really cool thing

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Speaker 1: about knowledge is that if you share it with people,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't get diluted. Right, have a pile of gold

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Speaker 1: and you give half of it to somebody, you have

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Speaker 1: as much gold. But if you know the secrets of

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Speaker 1: the universe and you share it with somebody, then you

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Speaker 1: have somebody to talk to about it. So it's like

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Speaker 1: even more valuable, right, But then if you make it

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Speaker 1: into n f T that's the opposite of that. That's

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Speaker 1: why I wouldn't turn the secret to the universe into

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Speaker 1: n f T s. That's why we share them freely

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Speaker 1: on this podcast. Yeah, and that's why we don't make

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Speaker 1: a lot of money, I guess, because this podcast is

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Speaker 1: for free, because making money is not the goal here.

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Speaker 1: The goal is to celebrate knowledge. That's right. This podcast

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Speaker 1: is a steal in itself. You are stealing knowledge from

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Speaker 1: our brains. You stole my punch line then. But it

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Speaker 1: is a pretty incredible universe full of interesting places, and

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Speaker 1: some places are sort of harder to get to than others.

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Speaker 1: In fact, there are places in the universe that might

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Speaker 1: be impossible to get to or at least to get

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Speaker 1: knowledge out of. Yes, the jewels of knowledge and not

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Speaker 1: just littered on the streets. They are sometimes hard to find,

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Speaker 1: and you actually do need a physicist or two on

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Speaker 1: your team Oceans thirteen or Oceans nineteen or whatever the

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Speaker 1: sequel will be in order to extract those jewels from

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Speaker 1: the universe. Sometimes you just have to perform a clever experiment.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it seems like the universe is doing its best

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Speaker 1: to keep its jewels hidden from us. Yeah, and Daniel,

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Speaker 1: how many people work in your collaboration at the Large

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Speaker 1: Chundren Collider? Like a few thousand? You know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: even sure what the number is to within a hundred.

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Speaker 1: It's somewhere between five thousand and six thousand authors on

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Speaker 1: every single paper I see. So your sequel would be

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Speaker 1: Oceans five thousand, five hundred plus or minus five hundred.

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Speaker 1: Your movie title needs an error? Are that's right? What's

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Speaker 1: another hundred authors on a paper anyway? Really? Between friends? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Though sometimes it seems like, no matter how many henchmen

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Speaker 1: you have in your gang m it seems that the

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Speaker 1: nature sort of like you're saying, it has places in

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Speaker 1: the universe that it just doesn't seem to want to

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Speaker 1: let you get to. And it's especially tantalizing and frustrating

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Speaker 1: when we know the secret is in there, when we

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Speaker 1: have found this physics vault and we just don't know

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Speaker 1: how to crack it. We know that the answers are

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Speaker 1: waiting behind a wall, and if we could only get

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Speaker 1: in there, we could learn something deep and true about

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Speaker 1: the universe, like the Ultimate Heist. I am warming up

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Speaker 1: to this movie idea. It's starting to seem interesting sci

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Speaker 1: fi heist doctor Strange's ocean. Well, I think one of

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Speaker 1: these places that are really hard to get to the universe,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, are black holes. Black Holes are extremely

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Speaker 1: difficult to get to or at least survive getting into,

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Speaker 1: and maybe even impossible to get anything out of. And

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Speaker 1: yet we know that hidden inside a black hole are

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Speaker 1: critical details that will reveal to us the true nature

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Speaker 1: of space and time. How does space come together? Is

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Speaker 1: gravity a quantum force or the curvature of space time?

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Speaker 1: What is the smallest unit of space? What is actually

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Speaker 1: going on inside a black hole? All of those answers

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Speaker 1: are available to anyone who falls into a black hole. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but just to be clear, Daniel, it's not like you

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Speaker 1: go into a black hole and it's all there on

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Speaker 1: a textbook or you know, a sign. It's like you

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Speaker 1: want to get into a black hole just so you

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Speaker 1: can do experiments there and then see what you know

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Speaker 1: these how these rules of the universe change inside of

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Speaker 1: one experiments. I'm expecting a ted talk when I get

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Speaker 1: there by by the physicists that I threw in before me.

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Speaker 1: That's what I have students and post docs for right. Right,

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Speaker 1: I thought you were going in first, Daniel, I'm never

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Speaker 1: going in first. You know that when the aliens arrive,

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Speaker 1: we're sending other people first. I'm gonna be in like

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Speaker 1: the fifth wave. Another reason why I'm not in a

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Speaker 1: bank heist. That's right, you just want to sit at

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Speaker 1: home and count the knowledge later. But you're right that

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Speaker 1: the secrets of the universe are not just laid out

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Speaker 1: for us in an already written paper or a ted talk.

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Speaker 1: We would have to do some observations, but I don't

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Speaker 1: think it would be that tricky. There are some really

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Speaker 1: big questions that different ideas about what might be going

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Speaker 1: on inside a black hole are extremely diverse from there's

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Speaker 1: a tiny singularity of infinite density too. There is nothing

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Speaker 1: inside a black hole because everything's smeared along its surface,

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Speaker 1: and so a lot of things could be very quickly

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Speaker 1: ruled out once you get inside. I wonder if it's

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Speaker 1: possible for you to get into a black hole, get

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Speaker 1: ready to do your experiments, and to figure out that

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Speaker 1: you didn't bring the right equipment. Are you You just

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Speaker 1: have no idea how to test for these things? Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: people can always throw stuff in after you go right.

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Speaker 1: So if I ever go to a black hole, I

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Speaker 1: would just want my students to just keep throwing equipment

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Speaker 1: in after me in case I need more stuff, just

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Speaker 1: in case, because he wouldn't be able to like tell

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Speaker 1: them possibly what you need, right, you know, as computers

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Speaker 1: get better, I want them to just keep throwing in

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Speaker 1: more computers so I keep doing more analysis. Also, maybe

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Speaker 1: some lunch, you know, a little s q to table

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Speaker 1: would be nice. Maybe a bed might be good too.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's interesting to think about what's inside of

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Speaker 1: a black hole, and it's sort of frustrating to think

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Speaker 1: that even if you do get in, and even if

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Speaker 1: you bring the right equipment and do the right experiments

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Speaker 1: and figure out how the universe actually works, you might

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Speaker 1: not be able to come out and tell other people.

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Speaker 1: It's incredibly frustrating. You know, there are some kinds of

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Speaker 1: knowledge that we know are out there. We also know

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Speaker 1: that eventually we'll get them, Like, for example, what's going

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Speaker 1: on on the surface of exoplanets fairly nearby. We don't

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Speaker 1: have the technology today, but eventually we'll have powerful telescopes

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Speaker 1: to image those services, will send robotic probes. We'll figure

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Speaker 1: it out. We might even get some samples returned in

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Speaker 1: the far far future. But black holes are so much

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Speaker 1: more frustrating because it seems like it might actually be

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Speaker 1: impossible to get the information out of there, or maybe

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Speaker 1: not according to the theory. Black holes are space time

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Speaker 1: I don't wish you can't get out of but there

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Speaker 1: are sort of loopholes in the theory that might let

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Speaker 1: you come out. I love loopholes in physics theory. Instead

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Speaker 1: of being like a physics bank heist, sometimes I want

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Speaker 1: to be a physics lawyer, want to argue in front

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Speaker 1: of the court of the universe, like actually your honor

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Speaker 1: it says here. I think you mean actually your honor

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Speaker 1: according to uh this paper from thirty years ago. And hey,

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Speaker 1: we do discover these loopholes, and sometimes these loopholes are

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Speaker 1: really important. Like we all know that you can't travel

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Speaker 1: faster than the speed of light. On the other hand,

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Speaker 1: it seems like it might be theoretically possible for things

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Speaker 1: to move away from each other faster than the speed

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Speaker 1: of light if the space between them expands. It's an

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Speaker 1: awesome kind of loophole because it solves the problem. You

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Speaker 1: don't actually want to travel through space faster than light.

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Speaker 1: You just want to get somewhere faster than light could have.

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Speaker 1: So that's a really wonderful kind of loophole in the

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Speaker 1: kind that we might be able to use to crack

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Speaker 1: open a black hole. Yeah, because space is but a

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Speaker 1: pretty a pretty interesting thing. It's not just like an

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Speaker 1: emptiness out there. It's it's sort of this thing that

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Speaker 1: can squish and may bend and sometimes maybe even have

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Speaker 1: shortcuts in it. It's a really difficult concept for people

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Speaker 1: to grasp. I think a lot of people are still

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Speaker 1: stuck with sort of Isaac Newton's idea of space is

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Speaker 1: like the emptiness to backdrop the stage on which the

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Speaker 1: universe happens, not actually a part of the universe, but now,

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Speaker 1: as you say, we know it's a dynamical thing that

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Speaker 1: responds to the stuff that's in it. Yeah, and in

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Speaker 1: particular it sort of allows for two things that may

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Speaker 1: let you come out of a black hole. And those

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Speaker 1: two things are warp drives and wormholes, which I'm still

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Speaker 1: waiting Daniel for you guys to make it a reality. Well,

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Speaker 1: I sent that grant application to the Daniel Science Foundation

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Speaker 1: into the National Thieves Foundation, and I'll let you know

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Speaker 1: when I hear no it's a national stealing foundation. That's

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Speaker 1: why wrong email address. But you're right that these are

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Speaker 1: theoretically allowed in the universe. General relativity in our knowledge

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Speaker 1: of physics says that it might be possible to shortcut

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Speaker 1: to places in space to get from one to the

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Speaker 1: other without going through all the space in between. That's

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Speaker 1: a wormhole, or to squeeze space in front of you

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Speaker 1: and expand it behind you to create a warp bubble

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Speaker 1: and get places faster than light could have. That's a

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Speaker 1: warp drive. They might be theoretically be allowed. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: we've talked about both of those things in our podcast.

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Speaker 1: If you're interested in going deeper, you can search for

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Speaker 1: those episodes, but we didn't sort of talk about maybe

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Speaker 1: using them to get out of a black hole. And

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks out there have been writing in

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Speaker 1: asking me if it's possible to use warp drives and

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Speaker 1: wormholes as a loophole into black holes. And so today

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Speaker 1: on the podcast we'll be tackling can you escape a

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Speaker 1: black hole with a warp drive or warmhole? Now, Daniel,

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Speaker 1: are people asking you this because they're thinking of going

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Speaker 1: to a black hole or are they stuck in a

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Speaker 1: black hole? And if they're stuck in a black hole,

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Speaker 1: how did they get the message to you? I got

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Speaker 1: this weird email with no return address you. It's just

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Speaker 1: like emptiness from like three trillion years ago. No, I

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Speaker 1: think people are planning their vacations, and you know, they

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Speaker 1: want to think about what happens with my family and

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Speaker 1: I fall into that black hole, and you've got to

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Speaker 1: be prepared. You know, some people are really safety conscious,

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Speaker 1: like how many people can I bring back? And can

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Speaker 1: I you know, maybe leave some of them behind and

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Speaker 1: hopefully No, that's kinda that's kind of dark. I think

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Speaker 1: listeners are really curious about this seeming impenetrability. Anytime you

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Speaker 1: hear about something being totally impossible in physics, it makes

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Speaker 1: you wonder if there's not just like another clever angle

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Speaker 1: or some loophole to exploit. And of course we're all

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Speaker 1: curious about what's inside black holes, and so if you

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Speaker 1: found a way to siphon off that information, it would

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Speaker 1: be pretty fascinating. Yeah, and so this is pretty mind

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Speaker 1: bending and space bending stuff. You know, black holes bend

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Speaker 1: space a lot, and warp drives and warmholes also bend space.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I can I can see how people

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Speaker 1: might think like, hey, what if I use one to

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Speaker 1: solve the other? And so we were wondering how many

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Speaker 1: people had thought about this possible combination of things black holes,

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Speaker 1: warp drives, and wormholes, and how they can be used

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Speaker 1: together or used against each other. So Daniel went out

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Speaker 1: there into the wilds to the internet to ask people

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Speaker 1: this question. And thanks very much to all of you

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Speaker 1: who volunteered to answer crazy, unexpected questions about loopholes in

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Speaker 1: general relativity without any chance to prepare or take a

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Speaker 1: graduate level class in advance. And if that sounds fun

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Speaker 1: to you, please don't be shy. Right to me two

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Speaker 1: questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com and I'll set

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Speaker 1: you up with some crazy questions. So think about it

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Speaker 1: for a second. Do you think you can escape a

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Speaker 1: black hole with a warp drive or warmhole? Here, it's

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Speaker 1: what people had to say. I'm not really sure how

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Speaker 1: a warp drive works, but if you are changing the

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Speaker 1: shape of space or of space time, then it seems

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Speaker 1: like you could get yourself into position where the gravity

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Speaker 1: of the black hole doesn't hold you as tightly as

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Speaker 1: it does in normal space. Well, for sure, Jean Lopeicar

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Speaker 1: would try to use the warp drive, depending will how

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Speaker 1: close we would be to the black hole. But if

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Speaker 1: we are in the no escape area where the light

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Speaker 1: doesn't go out, I don't see how we can get

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Speaker 1: out of there. I think even if your maths and

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Speaker 1: simulations tell you in some way to escape a black hole,

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Speaker 1: the fact that you've been spaghettified is going to slow

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Speaker 1: you down to some extent. I don't think you could

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Speaker 1: use a wormhole, but I'm pretty sure you could use

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Speaker 1: a warp drive. I think a warp drive would do it.

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Speaker 1: But unfortunately I can't tell you why. I think at

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Speaker 1: because of the prime directive. Well, since warp drives are

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Speaker 1: fantasy at this point and wormholes are theoretical at best,

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Speaker 1: I would say no, you cannot because we do not

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Speaker 1: know much about these modes of travel. I am gonna

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Speaker 1: say no because I don't think anything can escape a

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Speaker 1: black hole. All right. Not a lot of optimism here.

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Speaker 1: Some people are like, Nope, Nope, I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: I like the person who said John looked the card

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Speaker 1: when he us a warp drive. I think that could

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Speaker 1: be a good life philosophy. You know what, would John

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Speaker 1: looked the card? Do? Yeah? And it made me wonder.

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Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of episodes of star Chek the

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Speaker 1: Next Generation, but I don't remember one where they fall

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Speaker 1: into a black hole and use a warp drive to escape.

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Speaker 1: Even on that show where the science is like, how

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Speaker 1: can we say very flexible, I don't remember them using

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Speaker 1: this particular trick. Oh. Interesting, they didn't make it so,

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Speaker 1: But of course there's probably a listener out there who's

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Speaker 1: seen every episode ten times and can correct me. So

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Speaker 1: if the Enterprise he uses a warp drive to escape

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Speaker 1: a black hole, please send us a note. I think

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Speaker 1: they used to in one of the movies. Didn't they

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Speaker 1: use something to sling shot, like around some of the

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Speaker 1: sun or something, and then to go faster than light

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Speaker 1: and travel back in time. It wasn't that a plot

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Speaker 1: of one of the movies. Yeah, they did go back

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Speaker 1: to present day San Francisco to save the humpback whales

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Speaker 1: and one of them, and they did that by going

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Speaker 1: faster than the speed of light to go back in time.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think a wormhole or warp drive was used. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I guess a warp drive is pretty normal for them,

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Speaker 1: Like they just have one in their ship. Everybody has one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which makes you wonder why do they need to sling

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Speaker 1: shot around the Sun in order to go fast in

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Speaker 1: the speed of light when they got the warp drive

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Speaker 1: right there. But as we say, the science is flexible.

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Speaker 1: I see, it's a black hole of real science. No,

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Speaker 1: I love that show. You don't have to be all

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Speaker 1: hard science fiction. Have a good time, but it does

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Speaker 1: help right, that more fun. It's a different kind of universe,

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Speaker 1: and I like all the universes, from the true physics

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Speaker 1: universe as we actually live in to the crazy goofy

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Speaker 1: universe of Star Trek. Yeah. Alright, well, let's get into

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Speaker 1: this question, Daniel. Can we use a warm hole or

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Speaker 1: warp drive to get out of a black hole? Maybe

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Speaker 1: step us through this first? Why is it hard to

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Speaker 1: get out of a black hole in the first place?

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Speaker 1: Black Holes are hard to escape because they do more

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Speaker 1: than just pull on you. Everything that has gravity is

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Speaker 1: pulling on you, like the Sun is pulling on you,

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Speaker 1: the Earth is pulling on you. Black Holes are a

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Speaker 1: great example of how gravity is more than just a force.

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Speaker 1: It's actually the changing of the shape and the organization

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Speaker 1: of space itself. So the reason that we feel gravity

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Speaker 1: is not because there's a Newtonian force between stuff. But

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Speaker 1: because having mass in space changes the shape of space,

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Speaker 1: and when the shape of space changes, you get this

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Speaker 1: fictitious forces, a feeling that there's a force there changing

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Speaker 1: the paths of particles. And that's what gravity is. It's

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Speaker 1: a fictitious force which appears when space is curved, and

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Speaker 1: black holes are the most incredibly intense curvature. They change

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Speaker 1: the shape of space so much that space becomes one

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Speaker 1: directional inside the black hole. Every future you have inside

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Speaker 1: a black hole only moves you closer to the center. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like being sort of trapped in a bubble of space.

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Speaker 1: Although Daniel, just to be clear, Um, I know that

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Speaker 1: the gravity as as a space time bending thing is

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Speaker 1: sort of the prevailing view, But like you were saying

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Speaker 1: at the there are some questions about gravity that we

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Speaker 1: still don't know, right, Like, there's still the possibility that

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Speaker 1: gravity is a force and it has a forced particle.

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Speaker 1: That's the description we get from general relativity, which so

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Speaker 1: far has survived every experimental test we've thrown at it,

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Speaker 1: even really really precise ones about the warping of space

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Speaker 1: and frame dragging. Check out our episode on gravity Probe B.

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Speaker 1: It's predicted the existence of black holes, which appeared. However,

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Speaker 1: the place where we expect general relativity to break down

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Speaker 1: is when it gets really really intense over really really

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Speaker 1: short distances, when quantum gravity becomes relevant, when we need

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Speaker 1: to understand how quantum particles interact gravitationally, for example, inside

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Speaker 1: a black hole. So the best place to figure out

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Speaker 1: why general relativity is probably wrong is inside a black hole.

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Speaker 1: So you're right, this description of gravity as a bending

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Speaker 1: of space time is very effective, but it is a

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Speaker 1: classical theory and is likely incorrect. It's the new classical theory,

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Speaker 1: I guess, because there's a previous classic. There's like a

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Speaker 1: classic classic theory, which is a Newtonian view. Right, that's right.

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Speaker 1: But by classical we don't mean the old delicious formula

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Speaker 1: that you loved when you were a kid. We mean

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Speaker 1: that it's not quantum mechanical. General relativity as we use

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Speaker 1: it assumes that space is smooth and continuous, there's an

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Speaker 1: infinite number of locations between every two points, that objects

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Speaker 1: have perfect paths, that if they are here and then

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Speaker 1: they are there, they must have followed a path in between.

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Speaker 1: But we know the universe is different from that. We

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Speaker 1: have strong evidence that quantum mechanics is the nature of

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Speaker 1: space time. We just don't know how to unify those pictures. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's sort of like the neoclassical view now, because

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Speaker 1: we know that there might be big changes coming soon. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and specifically, general relativity predicts at the heart of a

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Speaker 1: black hole is a singularity. But it's not really fair

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Speaker 1: to call it a prediction. It's more like a failure.

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Speaker 1: General relativity predicts something which is essentially impossible and infinitely

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Speaker 1: dense point, so most theorists see this as the breakdown

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Speaker 1: of general relativity. This is the point where general relativity

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Speaker 1: no longer works and has to be replaced by a

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Speaker 1: quantum theory. So it's not like we really expect there

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Speaker 1: to be a singularity at the heart of these black

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Speaker 1: holes because that's what Einstein predicted. We expect to find

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Speaker 1: something else which helps us change general relativity, which shows

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Speaker 1: us how to refine it and extend it so that

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Speaker 1: it does apply to those crazy circumstances. But I guess

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Speaker 1: even before you get to that singularity, a black hole

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Speaker 1: is such that even if you get near it, you're

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Speaker 1: sort of trapped inside of it. If you get beyond

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Speaker 1: the event horizon of the black hole. You're saying that

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Speaker 1: there's like nowhere for you to go because all of

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Speaker 1: space time sort of curves around you, and anywhere you

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Speaker 1: try to go, it just pulls you closer to the center. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and people think about the inside of a black hole

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Speaker 1: as this barrier past the event horizon. Remember, the event

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Speaker 1: horizon is not like a physical place. It's not like

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Speaker 1: there's a gate there with some guard locks you in

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Speaker 1: and says you can't leave. It's just an effective location.

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Speaker 1: It's just if you venture past this point, then your

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Speaker 1: light cone, your future, everything that you can affect in

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Speaker 1: the universe is now trapped inside this radius around the

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Speaker 1: black hole. So it's sort of like a point of

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Speaker 1: no return. It's like if you're trying to drive fast

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Speaker 1: around an icy turn. You know, when you've lost traction

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Speaker 1: and you're just not going to make it and you're

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Speaker 1: gonna slide out. That's the point of no return. The

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Speaker 1: event horizon is sort of like that you got a

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Speaker 1: little too close and now all of space is leading

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Speaker 1: you eventually towards the center. Yeah. I think it also

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like if you're trapped in a pit

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Speaker 1: on the ground, and it's it's sort of like the

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Speaker 1: point where the walls of the pit get go beyond vertical,

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Speaker 1: Like once they're vertical or more than vertical or leaning

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Speaker 1: towards you, there's almost no way you can climb out.

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Speaker 1: And so, according to classical general relativity, everything that happens

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Speaker 1: inside the event horizon eventually hits the singularity, and there's

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Speaker 1: no way for information to pass out of the event horizon,

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Speaker 1: including you or any signals you want to send, or

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Speaker 1: any notes or ted talks you compose while you're inside

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Speaker 1: the black hole, yeah, or any science fiction novels or

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Speaker 1: TV shows that you come up within there. All right,

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Speaker 1: So that's a black hole, and so theoretically it's all

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Speaker 1: sort of impossible to get out of it, or so

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Speaker 1: we thought. There are sort of loopholes to this theory

431
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 1: that might let you get out, maybe a warm hole

432
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 1: or a warp drive, and so let's get into whether

433
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: or not we can use them to get out of

434
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: a black hole. But first let's take a quick break.

435
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: All right, Daniel, help, I'm stuck inside of a black hole?

436
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 1: What can I do? And if you can hear me,

437
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 1: you're probably in here with me, in which case. Uh,

438
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: we're both doing exactly. That's never the phone call I

439
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: want to get. The call is coming from inside the

440
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 1: black hole. You're inside the black hole too. That's the

441
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: combination sci fi horror movie genre. Yeah, well, there you go.

442
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: That's the first scene in your movie. Somebody has to

443
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: steal us out of the black hole. It's a rescue

444
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: movie exactly, which is what John goes, Well, WHOA, now

445
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: we can cast the Rock. I would rather put my

446
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: faith in the Rock's hand and John Cena, I don't know.

447
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: How about uh boy, who would win in an armed

448
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: wrestling contest or a physics test? The Rock for sure?

449
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: How about both? We could get them both in the movie.

450
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: But one of them could play you, the other one

451
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 1: could play me. I think you have an over density

452
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: of muscle and you might create your own black hole,

453
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: and then it would be counterproductive. They'll have to diet.

454
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 1: Maybe you're stopped working out. But I'm curious about your

455
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 1: suggest in there. If you had to choose, who would

456
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 1: you prefer plays you in the movie, The Rock or

457
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 1: John Cina or the Rock for sure? Yeah, you're gonna

458
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: shave your head, So if you can play I think

459
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: it'd be easier to get him a wig. But either way,

460
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: I guess we would need one of their help to

461
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 1: get out of the black hole, because black holes are

462
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: almost maybe impossible to get out of, except that maybe

463
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: there's the idea that we could use a loophole in

464
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: the theory, one or two loopholes, either a warmhole or

465
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,479
Speaker 1: a warp drive. So maybe let's go through him one

466
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: at a time. Daniel, Um, how does the warp drive

467
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,479
Speaker 1: even work? So warp drive is a really cool idea,

468
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: and let me stress that it's theoretical. We have these

469
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: equations that suggest it might be possible, but there's a

470
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: whole lot of question marks and engineering hurdles to overcome

471
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 1: before we actually build a warp drive and use it

472
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: to shoot off and explore the universe. The basic idea

473
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: is that if you can manipulate the curvature of space,

474
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: you might be able to accomplish what you want, which

475
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: is to get from here to somewhere really really far

476
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 1: away without having to travel through all of that space.

477
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: And the idea is that space is flexible, and so

478
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: for example, if you can squeeze the space between here

479
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,959
Speaker 1: and your destination and at the same time expand the

480
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: space behind you. You can effectively move a little bubble

481
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: of space faster than the speed of light, because while

482
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: there are rules about how fast you can go through space,

483
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 1: there are no rules about how fast the curvature of

484
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: space can change. Yeah, so this is kind of one

485
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: flavor of war drives. You know, it's it's all sort

486
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: of fantastical at this point in theoretical and there are

487
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: many different ways to kind of pull off a war drive, right,

488
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: I mean, we talked about this in one of the

489
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: chapters in our book. Freaquently asked questions about the universe. Yeah,

490
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: there are lots of crazy ideas out there. I think

491
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: the one that's closest too plausible is called the al

492
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,479
Speaker 1: Qbair drive, named after a Mexican physicist who came up

493
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: with this idea. He discovered that there's a solution to

494
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: Einstein's equations for general relativity which can accomplish this. So

495
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: if you could bend space in this way, then theoretically

496
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: you could take a little bubble and warp it across

497
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: the universe. The question at the end of his paper, though,

498
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: is can you bend space in this way? You know,

499
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: Einstein's equations are very tough to solve, and it's not

500
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: always clear that you can accomplish this kind of curvature

501
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 1: just because you want to WHOA Okay. First of all,

502
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: if you're interested in learning about all the other crazy

503
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: ideas for warp drives, please check out our book Frequently

504
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: Asked Questions about the Universe and b there's an actual

505
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: paper where someone proposes a warp drive. Is this like

506
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: a sub genre of physics papers? This is a sub

507
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 1: genre of physics papers, and it's one that's growing recently.

508
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 1: People are working on all sorts of crazy stuff exploring

509
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: the potential consequences for faster than light travel or closed

510
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: timelike curves. In general relativity, a lot of people are

511
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: exploring sort of the edges of the fabric of gr

512
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: what it can predict and how it can be manipulated.

513
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,239
Speaker 1: This is a paper that came out more than ten

514
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: years ago, so it's been around for a while. Oh man,

515
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: that means that somebody has had ten is to be

516
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: working on this. This is not the fringe, right, This

517
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: is sort of like between the mainstream and the fringe.

518
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: But these ideas are being taken seriously, and I mean

519
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: this paper is correct. If you could bend space in

520
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: this way. It would accomplish that, but you know, of course,

521
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 1: there's no guarantee that you can bend space in this way.

522
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: Einstein's equations say if you have an arrangement of matter

523
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: and energy in a certain way, they tell you how

524
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: space bends. This is sort of going the opposite direction.

525
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: It says, Oh, I want space to bend this way,

526
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: what arrangement of mass and energy do I need? And unfortunately,

527
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: the answer and the paper is you need some weird

528
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: stuff like negative energy matter like matter with negative mass,

529
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: which we don't know if it exists in the universe. Well, okay,

530
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: let's take a step back though first and maybe step

531
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 1: through this idea so that you're saying that one way

532
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: to do a warp drive is to somehow, like if

533
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: I want to get from here to another star, one

534
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: way to do that is to squish, like move forward,

535
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: but squish the space in front of me so that

536
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: it's smaller, shorter, so that if I take like one step,

537
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: I'm actually going ten thousand steps or something like that.

538
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: And in the meantime, to like make up for it,

539
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: I have to expand the space behind me, because I'll

540
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: step through this crunch space, and then I have to

541
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: let it go back to normal behind me. Well, you

542
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: don't want to actually step through the scrunch space because

543
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: then you get torn apart by these tidal forces. But

544
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: what you can do is have a little bubble, and

545
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: that bubble can get closer to your destination. So imagine,

546
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: for example, you step into our work bubble and then

547
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: you squeeze the space between you and Alpha centauri and

548
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: then you step out of the work bubble. It's sort

549
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: of like stepping onto a moving walkway. So you step

550
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: sideways into the bubble, you can press the space in

551
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: front of you, and then you step sideways out of

552
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: the bubble again. So you're saying the bubble moves. It's

553
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: the bubble moves. Yes, So you don't actually go through

554
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: crunch space. You don't go through crunch space. You don't

555
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: want to. Like that space is extraordinarily curved and you

556
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: would feel very strong forces. So in this version the

557
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: warp bubble, you don't actually go through crunch. The bubble

558
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: itself moves right. And space can do this kind of thing.

559
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: Space can distort, it can bend, you can twist, you

560
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: can get reconnected, all sorts of crazy stuff. I see

561
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: like you sort of. I guess I'm controlled visualizing this bubble.

562
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: So like, inside the bubble is regular space that is

563
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: comfortable for me. But just outside of the bubble, you're

564
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: saying space is crunch and then somehow the bubble moves,

565
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: but I do to move, or the bubble moves, but

566
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: I stay in place. That's right. You have an inertial

567
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: frame inside the bubble, so you're not moving relative to

568
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: the bubble, but the bubble is moving relative to the

569
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: rest of space. And that's accomplished also because there's a

570
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: part of space behind you that's expanding. So that's what

571
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: this bubble does, is it compresses the space in front

572
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: of you and expands the space behind you. I don't

573
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: need to move, like, wouldn't the bubble move away from

574
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: me or past me? You're inside the bubble and so

575
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: you have no velocities, no forces on you relative to

576
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: the bubble. The whole bubble moves, including you. WHOA, it's

577
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: almost um. I guess you're trying to go on a

578
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: train track and you're what you're like, you're scrunching all

579
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: the tracks in front of you. Yes, it's a lot

580
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: like sitting on a train. Right on a train, you

581
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: don't move relative to the train. The train moves relative

582
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: to the track. So that's what you're trying to accomplish here.

583
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: I see, the bubble is a train, and space is

584
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: a track, and I'm scrunching the track in front of

585
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: the train, and then the train moves through the scrunch space.

586
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: And one complication is, of course, how do you get

587
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: space to scrunch in front of you and to expand

588
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: behind you, because it has to scrunch ahead of you

589
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: before you get there. And here's a key problem is

590
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: that you inside the bubble can't do anything to the

591
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: universe outside the bubble while you're inside. So if you

592
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: need space to be scrunched in front of you, you

593
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: need some sort of space scrunching device in front of

594
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: you which either has to travel faster than the speed

595
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: of light. If you know how to do that already,

596
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,959
Speaker 1: you don't need a war bubble, or you need to

597
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: like lay a track and advance somebody's like go before

598
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: you and build the space crunching track between you and

599
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: alpha centaur, you know, or to accomplish this scrunching right, Oh,

600
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: I get it, yeah, Because you're in the train moving

601
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: like you can't reach out, like you can't have an

602
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: arm sticking out of the train ahead at like seventy

603
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: miles ahead of you and scrunch the tracks in front

604
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: of you. Because if you get an arm out that far,

605
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: you might as well just hop on the arm and

606
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: go forward. Maybe the rock can do that, right, Yeah,

607
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: with the help of John Cena, one of them could

608
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: toss the other. There you go. Now it's a train

609
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: highest Rescue movie. Throw John Cena from the train. Yeah. Okay,

610
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: So you're saying, in this version of a warp drive,

611
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: which is kind of like the front runner in terms

612
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: of the theory in the community, you kind of have

613
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: to like build a track ahead of time, sort of

614
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: like a like a tunnel almost in space before you

615
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: can war drive. It's not like you can just warp

616
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: drive anywhere. You have to lay down this magical track. Yeah,

617
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: it's sort of like a hyperloop. And let's clarify, Like

618
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: the idea that's out there is if you can bend

619
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: space in this way, you can move a warp bubble

620
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: through space. The question is, then how do you bend

621
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: space in this way? And one idea people have is

622
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: make this basically like hyperloop train track that bends space

623
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: and find matter with negative energy density to bend the

624
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: space behind you. There might be other ways to accomplish

625
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: this curvature. That's just one idea how to accomplish this

626
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: particular curvature of space that would effectively give you a

627
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: warp bubble. But I guess I would this work. So

628
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: let's say we lay out this hyperloop or warp drive

629
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: loop from period of office and TORI, and along the

630
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: this tunnel there's some sort of like device or material

631
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: that somehow like puts out negative mass energy. Is that

632
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: what you're saying. Yeah, the whole warp bubble needs to

633
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: be surrounded by weird negative energy density to separate the

634
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: bubble from the rest of the universe so we can

635
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: move faster than light. There's a strange connection between negative

636
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: energy density and faster than light travel. But the theorists

637
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: tell me that this is not something that's actually well

638
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: understood even theoretically, and we have no idea how to

639
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: make something with negative energy density anyway. Right, But but

640
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is that it would need

641
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: to be somehow selectively activated, right like this tunnel would

642
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: need to be lined with this negative energy matter or generators,

643
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: and then you need to sort of like activate them

644
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: as your bubble goes along. I think that's true, because

645
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: what you want is space to be curved right in

646
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: front of your bubble and space to be expanded right

647
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: behind your bubble. And so it sounds like a pretty

648
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: complicated engineering problem. A little bit, A little bit. There's

649
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: definitely some details to work out here, although you know,

650
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: they have made some progress. And the first generation of

651
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: the idea they thought it would take as much matter

652
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: as is contained in the observable universe to accomplish this

653
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: squeezing of space. Now they've got it down to like

654
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: some fraction of the mass in Jupiter, So you know,

655
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: that's progress. Yeah, that's a huge amount. That's a huge difference,

656
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: huge savings. That's right. We've broadened down from seventy two

657
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: good jillion dollars to only sixteen jillion dollars. That's right. Yeah,

658
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: we've gone from the rock salary to um the actor's salary.

659
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: But I think you're what you're saying is that the

660
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: main problem is that it depends on this weird thing,

661
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: which is something with negative energy, which we don't even

662
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: know if it's possible, or we have no idea how

663
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: to do. There's only one scenario in general relativity, as

664
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: far as we understand it, where space can expand, and

665
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: that's if you have a lot of potential energy inside

666
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: some quantum field in space. And we talked about this

667
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: as a potential source for inflation in the very early universe.

668
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: When the universe did exactly that, it expanded and the

669
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: in phloton field with a lot of potential energy might

670
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: have accomplished that. And currently today the universe is expanding

671
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: fairly gently thanks maybe to the cosmological constant, which might

672
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: be a source of potential energy in space driving dark energy.

673
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: So we do see that the universe is expanding, space

674
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: can expand, although controlling dark energy is not even an

675
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: engineering problem, it's just fantasy. WHOA all right, I have

676
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: a question about that. And also let's getting too whether

677
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: you can use maybe warm holes instead to get out

678
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: of a black hole. But first let's take another quick break.

679
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 1: All right, we're trying to get out of a black hole, Daniel,

680
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: and we can't afford the Rock or John Cena to

681
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: help us here, being on a train low budget black

682
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: hole escape Heist movie. That's right, we only have enough

683
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: money to fill up Jupiter. It makes me kind of wonder, like,

684
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: you know, you're talking about dark energy and how it's

685
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: expanding space and whether or not we can maybe harness

686
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 1: them of this negative energy that might exist to maybe

687
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 1: create a warp drive. Could could just use dark energy

688
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: or this negative energy to just basically like punch a

689
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: hole in a black hole? You know what I mean? Like,

690
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: could we just you know, use somehow theoretically, is it

691
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: possible to manipulate this and just kind of create an

692
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,959
Speaker 1: escape hatch potentially, And that's sort of what a warp

693
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: drive might be doing. Now. In our universe, there is

694
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: dark energy. Space is expanding, and so, for example, black

695
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 1: holes that exist out there in our universe right now,

696
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: they're existing in the context of space that is expanding

697
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 1: underneath them. And people write to me sometimes they ask,

698
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: like can dark energy pull apart a black hole? As

699
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: far as we know, black holes do survive dark energy

700
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: because they're out there in the universe and they've lasted

701
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: for billions of years. And the effect of dark energy, remember,

702
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: is to expand space. And so fundamentally, if you have

703
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: a homogeneous if you're like expanding all of space. At

704
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 1: the same time you're just stretching the black hole. You're

705
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: just moving the event horizon further out. It's like expanding

706
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: the black hole. Nothing that was inside the event horizon

707
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: ever gets out of the event horizon. If you're smoothly

708
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: expanding all of space. What we're talking about what the

709
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: warp drive though, is like, could you expand just part

710
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: of space? Could you like distort it, make like this

711
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: weird bubble or divot, so the event horizon actually like changes,

712
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: it's no longer a sphere, and you can like slip

713
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: it behind you. You can get out from inside the

714
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: black hole. Yeah, it's theoretically possible, right, like because the

715
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 1: black hole is bending space itself, but then you're sort

716
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: of bending it back in certain places. It's not even

717
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: theoretically possible. I would say it's like maybe potentially theoretically possible.

718
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: There's a lot of issues there, right, but maybe theoretically possible.

719
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: It's still theoretical possible. It may be theoretically possible. Expanding

720
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: the space behind you can sort of like move you

721
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: further from the center of the black hole. Right if

722
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: you specifically expand that space that's between you and the

723
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: singularity and not the spaces between you and the event horizon.

724
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,720
Speaker 1: Then you're sort of moving closer to the event horizon.

725
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: If you do that enough, you might be able to

726
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: pop out of the event horizon. But according to some

727
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 1: particle theories that I talked to, if you do that,

728
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: then you don't really have a black hole. To them,

729
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 1: a black hole is something with an event horizon that

730
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: nothing can escape from. And so if you like construct

731
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: a warped tunnel out of a black hole, they say, well,

732
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: it wasn't really a black hole. They're purists. I see,

733
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: they're black hole purists. They're like, well, if you can

734
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: escape one, then it's not a black hole. Yeah, exactly.

735
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: But the bigger problem is an engineering one, which is

736
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: how do you build the track. If you're inside a

737
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: black hole and you want to warp bubble out of

738
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: the black hole, then you need this warp drive track,

739
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: this hyperloop we talked about, this construction of this crazy

740
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: matter to get you out, And if you're inside, then

741
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: you can't go out to build this track, so you

742
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: sort of can't build your way out of it. I see,

743
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: if it's possible, then it's not impossible, So you could

744
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: sort of do it if you built the warp drive

745
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: track in advance, Like you see a black hole, you

746
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: build this warp drive track into the black hole, then

747
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 1: you can jump in and ride it back out. But

748
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: the particle theory purist would say, well, when you built

749
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: that warp drive track, you sort of like created a

750
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: divot in the black hole already and you didn't really

751
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: go into the event horizon. Yeah, it's like you punched

752
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: a hole in it. Uh, and you went into the

753
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: whole of the black hole, but you didn't actually touch

754
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: the black hole exactly. So either you bend in advance

755
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: and you're sort of sitting in the dip in the

756
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: event horizon, or you go inside, but then you can

757
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 1: no longer build your way out, and like, that's a

758
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 1: loophole in the loophole of the loophole. There are a

759
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: lot of holes in this theory, Daniel, And there are

760
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: a lot of holes, And we haven't even talked about

761
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: wormholes yet. Yeah, let's get into our last kind of

762
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: hole for a black hole, because that would make it

763
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: all whole, and that is a wormhole, which is maybe

764
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 1: another possible way to get out of a black hole.

765
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: And so Daniel, we've talked about warmholes before and how

766
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: there may be at the center of black holes. I'm

767
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: actually more optimistic about the wormhole approach than the warp

768
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: driver approach. You're more optimistic, more optimistic, less optimistic. But

769
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: let's let's let's find out. Well, there's lots of different

770
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 1: varieties of wormholes. So the variety of wormholes that are

771
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: inside a black hole, sometimes called an Einstein Rosen bridge,

772
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: is a tricky concept. Some theorists say it's just a

773
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: mathematical artifact of choosing a weird core in it system.

774
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: It can't actually exist in nature. But the idea is

775
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 1: to connect black hole interiors. So you have like two

776
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: black holes and they have the same singularity and the

777
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: same interior, the same event horizon, even though one is

778
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: in one place in the universe and the other is

779
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: in another place in the universe. That's not very useful.

780
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 1: It just means that if you fell into a black hole,

781
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: turns out you're inside two black holes. But you could

782
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: change black holes in case you get bored of one,

783
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: you know, kind of like during the pandemic, you just

784
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: change rooms you work in for some variety. But you're

785
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: just still home, man, You didn't go anywhere. That's the problem,

786
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: al right. So that kind of warmhole wouldn't help you.

787
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: There's another kind of wormhole. You have a black hole

788
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: where the singularity is connected to a different kind of

789
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: object called a white hole, which is like the opposite

790
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,479
Speaker 1: of a black hole. Black Holes something you fall into

791
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: and can't escape. A white hole is something you can

792
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: shoot out of, but you can't ever go into. So

793
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: these are like one way tunnels in space. Theoretically, nobody's

794
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 1: ever seen a white hole or a wormhole, but in principle,

795
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: you could fall into that black hole and then get

796
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: shot out the other side of the white hole, right

797
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: like one of them. The black hole is this hole

798
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: that's sucking stuff in, and the white holes is presumably

799
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: other point in space that's just viewing out stuff constantly. Yeah,

800
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: And so you could go into the black hole and

801
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: you couldn't leave the black hole itself. You couldn't pass

802
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: through the event horizon the other direction, but you are

803
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: no longer inside the black hole, so that sort of counts, yeah,

804
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: I guess, And and you would be you would shoot

805
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: out of the white hole, I guess on the other

806
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: side wherever that is. But that's not so useful again

807
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: because you don't know where that is. That doesn't solve

808
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: the problem of I've fallen into a black hole and

809
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: I can't get up right. Well, it does solve it.

810
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: You just end up somewhere else, have no idea where

811
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: you are. Yeah, that's true. Oh I'm in the other

812
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: side of the universe. Yeah, it looks like I'm still

813
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 1: going to miss much. And I said, still can't tell

814
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: anybody exactly. But a more exciting possibilities to you sort

815
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: of a generic wormhole, a wormhole that doesn't require a

816
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: black hole. A wormhole most generically, it's just a connection

817
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: between two points in space. Let's say these two points

818
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 1: are effectively next to each other. If you're in one spot,

819
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: you can just sort of step to the next one.

820
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: And these two points in space don't have to be

821
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: like normally near each other. You can have this point

822
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 1: in our solar system just be connected to that point

823
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: in another solar system. We don't know how to build

824
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: a wormhole like that, but theoretically they are possible. We

825
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 1: think they can exist. So the idea is, maybe you're

826
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: inside a black hole, you somehow make this kind of

827
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: wormhole appear, so you can just sort of like step

828
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: through it and appear on the other side of the wormhole.

829
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: I see. So you're saying that not all wormholes happen

830
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: at the at the center of black holes. Like, theoretically

831
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 1: I could have a wormhole right next to me, right

832
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: here and not die, but it would just be this

833
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: weird arrangement where like I stick my hand in to

834
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: the wormhole and it's connected to you know, another point

835
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: in space where you'd see my hands sticking out. Its

836
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: sound is like totally bonker science fiction. But it's a

837
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: solution to Einstein's equations, and again we don't know how

838
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: to make it happen. Keeping one open also requires negative

839
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: energy density matter, which again may not exist. But if

840
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: it did, then the wormhole itself is not inconsistent with

841
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: the rules of general relativity. And recently there's been some

842
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: progress in understanding black holes that suggests that this might

843
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: really be possible. Interesting, So, okay, so maybe step me

844
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 1: through the solution here. You're saying that I would maybe

845
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 1: if I'm able to create a wormholes, I would create

846
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: one that starts here next to me, and and the

847
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: other side of the wormhole is like maybe just inside

848
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: the event horizon of a black hole. Is that what

849
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: you're saying, Like, so I stick my hand in, and

850
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: my hand would be inside of a black hole, but

851
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 1: I'm able to pull it out. Yeah. So you stick

852
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: your hand in and you have your phone inside the

853
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: black hole, you take a bunch of pictures, you pull

854
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: it back out. You have pictures from the inside of

855
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: a black hole. Right that, they're all black. Obviously, I

856
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: think my phone has any kind of special you know,

857
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 1: graviton detecting sensors that's coming out in the next Apple iPhone.

858
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: I think, Oh, I see, Yeah, I think that Samsung

859
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: one is already there's an app for that. Yeah, they

860
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: keep sticking more and more cameras and the back of

861
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: your phone. Now that sounds like crazy science fiction, and

862
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: it probably is because we don't know how to build

863
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: a wormhole. We don't know how to make that happen.

864
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: To say, I want a wormhole from here to the

865
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: center of that black hole. But in principle, there's nothing

866
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 1: preventing us except that we don't know how to do it. However,

867
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: recently we talked about whether maybe information can leak out

868
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: of a black hole, whether maybe like there's a quantum

869
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: entanglement between the Hawking radiation generated the event horizon and

870
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: the stuff that fell into the black hole a long

871
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: time ago. And theorists now think that that quantum entanglement

872
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: might be accomplished by wormholes, that there might effectively be

873
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: information wormholes that connect the inside and the outside of

874
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,959
Speaker 1: black holes, and so potentially, if you're inside a black hole,

875
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: there are already these wormholes you need to get information out.

876
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: Other theorists think that this is complete and utter nonsense. Wait,

877
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: what you're saying that maybe wormholes are like, maybe black

878
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: holes already have wormholes in them. That Hawking radiation, this faint,

879
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: these faint emission of particles, that the edge of black

880
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: holes might be leaking out information that fell into the

881
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: black hole. Remember the black hole information paradox is, Information

882
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,479
Speaker 1: can't be deleted from the universe, but stuff falls into

883
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: a black hole and then it evaporates where that information go. Recently,

884
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: people think, oh, probably that information is encoded in the

885
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 1: Hawking radiation that was admitted, which means they must be

886
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: somehow quantum entangled, and they suspect that's done with wormholes.

887
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: So we think that nature maybe already has wormholes from

888
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: the inside to the outside of black holes, so that

889
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: information can leak out before the black hole disappears. Other

890
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 1: theorists think that this is complete and utter nonsense. So

891
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: you might not be able to stick your hand inside

892
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: a black hole, but you might be able to like

893
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: transform it and into information, send it inside the black hole,

894
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: and then send it back somehow, like some sort of

895
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: weird wormhole based information teleportation. Right, But I guess what

896
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: aren't these Hawking radiation? You know, isn't it sort of

897
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 1: like random on the surface of a black hole. It's

898
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: not like there's a hole in the black hole where

899
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: stuff is radiating. It's like it sort of happens randomly

900
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: all over the black hole. Well that's what Hawking thought.

901
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: Hawking thought that the radiation was random, that it didn't

902
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: reveal anything about what happened inside the black hole. It

903
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: was only dependent on the black hole's mass and temperature.

904
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 1: But these recent developments suggests that it might not be random,

905
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:38,240
Speaker 1: that it might actually be indicating information about what's inside

906
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: the black hole. But it's all very exploratory and none

907
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: of that is final. It's like maybe theoretically possible. I'd

908
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: say two maybees maybe but even if it is possible,

909
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: it's not something you could use to get out of

910
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: the black hole, right, Like it maybe allows information to

911
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 1: come out, but like sticking a whole Daniel through, it

912
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: might not be possible. But what am I other than information? Right?

913
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: If you could tear you apart, read all my quantum information,

914
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: send that information outside the black hole, reassemble me, that

915
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: would be me getting out of a black hole. Well,

916
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: but you would still be in the black hole like that,

917
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: that version of you is still stuck in there. We

918
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: just get a fresh copy of you, know, because when

919
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: you read the quantum information of something, it destroys it.

920
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: That's the no cloning theorem that says that you can

921
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: read and transmit quantum information, but doing so destroys the original.

922
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: So it would be sort of like beaming out of

923
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: a black hole. And so then there's a philosophical question

924
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: about whether the originally was killed and the new you

925
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: is actually you or not. But your information will have

926
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: been teleported out of the black hole. Well that's wild.

927
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: But that again, that's assuming you can somehow control this

928
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: hawking radiation, and we don't even know if it happens.

929
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: Like you can establish like a channel for it, right,

930
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: Like it could just be happening all over the black hole. Yeah,

931
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: and nobody even seeing Hawking radiation. So this is like

932
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: beyond theoretical. This is speculation on speculation to the speculation squared.

933
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: I see. But I guess even if you warm hole

934
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: into a black hole, wouldn't you get destroyed at some point?

935
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: Or would you say, you sort of warm hole to

936
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,439
Speaker 1: a point inside the black hole where you can still survive. Yeah,

937
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,399
Speaker 1: really big black holes, you can survive near the event

938
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: horizon without getting pulled apart by the title forces. So

939
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: that is potentially possible. Although whether you can assemble the

940
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: delicate machinery you need to read your entire quantum state

941
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 1: and teleported back out of the black hole. Yeah, that

942
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: seems like a stretch. It just booked a hole in

943
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: the whole of the whole of the loophole. Holy, holy moly,

944
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: Holy Dwayne Johnson all right, well, um, it sounds like, um,

945
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: maybe there is a way to get out of a

946
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: black hole. You know, maybe it won't be through a

947
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: war drive, although if we figure out negative energy and

948
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: how to make it, maybe it might be possible, And

949
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,919
Speaker 1: it might be possible through a warm hole although it's

950
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: um it's gonna be pretty hard and we have no

951
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 1: idea how to do it. It's gonna be tricky, but

952
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 1: might be that getting information or people or phones out

953
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: of black holes moves from the category of totally impossible

954
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: to really impractical. We don't see how this is going

955
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: to happen, but maybe in a thousand years, which is

956
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: a big step forward, very special thanks to bar Action Scheney,

957
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: who consulted on this episode. Any inaccuracies in the physics

958
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 1: are our responsibility, not his. Yeah, and then we'll take

959
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 1: a big step back when all the physicists say, wow,

960
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: but that's not a black hole. Then you can get

961
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: something out of it. It stops being a black hole

962
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: if you can get if you can get anything out

963
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: of it, that's right. That's the most annoying answer possible. Actually,

964
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: there's a loophole. Will actually your loophole means it's not

965
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 1: a black hole. But then if there's a loophole, then

966
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: it's not a loophole anymore. I'm going to escape that loophole.

967
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: I don't even know what I just said. All right, Well,

968
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: something to think about, and maybe there's hope for those

969
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 1: of us who plan to go into a black hole

970
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: in the future, or for those of us who just

971
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 1: desperately want to know what is the fundamental nature of

972
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: space and time? Very special thanks to Baracra Scheney, who

973
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: consulted on this episode. Any inaccuracies in the physics are

974
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: our responsibility, not his. How does this universe actually work

975
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 1: at the lowest level? What really is the fabric unreality?

976
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: The answer is waiting for us inside a black hole. Yeah,

977
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: just make sure you have a good getaway car and

978
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: the latest phone. Well, thanks for joining us. I hope

979
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 1: you enjoyed that. See you next time. Thanks for listening,

980
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge explain the Universe is

981
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. Or more podcast from

982
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: my heart Radio visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

983
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Ye