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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer, Paul Mission controlled decant. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 3: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they

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Speaker 3: don't want you to know. Let's start today with a question. Guys,

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Speaker 3: have you ever walked into a room only to forget

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Speaker 3: why he came in there in the first place?

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Speaker 2: Consistently?

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Speaker 4: And it's sort of like, you know, losing your keys

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Speaker 4: or something like that too. I think it's that he

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Speaker 4: comes from the same place of kind of you know,

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Speaker 4: scattershot brainedness.

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Speaker 2: We learned something about this Ben, something with doorways, right.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, you're on the money. We're on the same page.

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Speaker 3: This is a helpful psychological I don't know if it's

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Speaker 3: a hack because it's not going to be to the

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Speaker 3: advantage of the human mind. But when people walk through

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Speaker 3: entrances or exits, on some level, the neurotypical brain will

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Speaker 3: assume it's a new situation, like a new level of

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Speaker 3: a video game. Right, so you are no longer in

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Speaker 3: some way, You're no longer the person that was on

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Speaker 3: the other side of the entry. So if you want,

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Speaker 3: I guess the hack is, if you want to forget stuff,

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Speaker 3: just walk through a bunch of doorways.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you what works for me. I'm serious

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Speaker 2: because this really does happen to me quite frequently in

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Speaker 2: my new especially in my new house, because it's less

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Speaker 2: familiar to me. I think, so the new doorway really

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Speaker 2: is a reset. I walk back out the same door,

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Speaker 2: whichever one I went into, and I just kind of

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Speaker 2: stand there for a moment, collect my thoughts, and then

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Speaker 2: generally I can remember why I went into that other place.

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Speaker 3: You can also do I don't know if there's a

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Speaker 3: real thing. This is just something I do. I call

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Speaker 3: it micro mnemonic approach. Like when you are before you

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Speaker 3: go to look for the thing, when you realize you

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Speaker 3: lost something, do a small motion that will create a small,

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Speaker 3: short lived sense memory, like cross your fingers and to

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Speaker 3: your point noel like cross your fingers and think keys,

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Speaker 3: or you know, put your arms a kimbo. A word

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Speaker 3: we never get to use and say to yourself keys

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Speaker 3: and then go look for them. And then if you're

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Speaker 3: in a room and you're wondering, why am I here?

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Speaker 3: What has life led me to cross your fingers again?

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Speaker 3: Or put your arms a kimbo, And then it'll hit you.

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Speaker 3: You'll be like, oh, I'm supposed to record a show.

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Speaker 3: That's why I'm here.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's funny, but I mean the things that

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Speaker 4: you're describing sound an awful lot like superstitious behaviors or

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Speaker 4: like things that maybe a baseball player would do in

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Speaker 4: order to like have quote unquote good luck. Right, But

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Speaker 4: that's the thing, right, you're basically talking about weaponized psychology,

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Speaker 4: you know, to try to kind of game yourself into

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Speaker 4: doing you know, having your brain cooperate and do what

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Speaker 4: you want.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's creating multiple pathways toward the desired you know,

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Speaker 3: train of thought. And like most people, if you're like

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Speaker 3: most people, fellow conspiracy realists, at some point you have

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Speaker 3: experienced a sudden bout of forgetfulness. Even people with the

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Speaker 3: real life superpower of adetic memory, which is different from

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Speaker 3: photographic memory because adetic memory is real and photographic memory

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Speaker 3: doesn't actually exist. Even those folks will have a difficult

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Speaker 3: time recalling some things. It can be really frightening, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's weird for most of us. It's kind of like

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Speaker 3: about of the hiccups or an unintended fart. It freaks

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Speaker 3: you out, and then it's gone and you move on

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Speaker 3: with your life. You know who you are, you know

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Speaker 3: what this object in space that you call yourself is.

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Speaker 3: Today's episode explores something really odd, an extreme version of

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Speaker 3: this forgetfulness. We're going to talk about something that might

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Speaker 3: be unfamiliar to a lot of people. Individuals who are

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Speaker 3: called the living unidentified, people who for one reason or

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Speaker 3: another have forgotten themselves. It never clicked back, right, the

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Speaker 3: lost keys in this case where they're identify tease and

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Speaker 3: they are still looking for those keys. This is the

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Speaker 3: story of a man who chose to call himself Benjaman

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Speaker 3: Kyle Well.

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Speaker 4: I think this is a trope that a lot of

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Speaker 4: people are familiar with from you know, film and television,

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Speaker 4: Like the idea of someone turning up in a town

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Speaker 4: and they don't know their own name, or they don't

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Speaker 4: know who they are. It's a really interesting way of

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Speaker 4: kind of exploring the mystery, you know, especially when the

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Speaker 4: person at the center of the mystery doesn't have all

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Speaker 4: the information like Momento a good example.

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Speaker 3: Memento is probably the quintessential example of that in the

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Speaker 3: world of film. And then there's also uh, oh, Angel

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Speaker 3: Heart Robert de Niro right plays well, I don't want.

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Speaker 4: To Yeah, Louis Cipher, Yes, do the math.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, I watched a movie called The Snowman the

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Speaker 2: other day.

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Speaker 4: Just isn't hilariously bad. It was pounded in the press.

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Speaker 2: The main character is Harry Hole.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a series of books, I know.

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Speaker 2: But it's just zero with zero, like recognition that the

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Speaker 2: guy's name is Harry Hole.

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Speaker 3: Come on, oh, Matt, forgot to tell you. Uh figured

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Speaker 3: out on a different show. We figured out a great

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Speaker 3: alias as lid Sec. Lets you choose your own name

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Speaker 3: you should probably go with, or we respectfully submit that

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Speaker 3: listeners should should consider what what was it?

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Speaker 2: No con check.

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Speaker 3: Check push, which is the singular and plural of specific.

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Speaker 4: Marty gra Polish Marty grab type. But we're not talking

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Speaker 4: about pun check. We're not talking about Harry Hole. We're

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Speaker 4: talking about.

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Speaker 3: Benjamin Benjamin, Benja Man m A and am I and Kyle.

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Speaker 3: Here are the facts. The story The best way to

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Speaker 3: start the story is in Richmond Hill, a small town

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Speaker 3: near Savannah in our home state of Georgia, on August

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Speaker 3: thirty first, two thousand and four, right after Matt and

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Speaker 3: Nola and I celebrated our birthdays. It's not included in

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Speaker 3: most of the media, but it's true. There was an

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Speaker 3: employee at a burger king sun you hour who walked

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Speaker 3: out to the dumpster. You know there at work. Walk

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Speaker 3: out to the dumpster only defined an unconscious, nude, sunburned,

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Speaker 3: rash ridden guy in front of the dumpster and riddled

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Speaker 3: with fire ant bites. So in fire ants and fire ants, crawling,

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Speaker 3: crawling on, crawling on the poor guy. And so what

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Speaker 3: you do, this is not what you signed up for

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Speaker 3: when you decide to get a paycheck at burger king.

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Speaker 3: You freak out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you go, yikes, I need to call someone. This

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Speaker 2: looks like it might be a dead body.

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Speaker 3: Right, this is not a typical day at burger king, right.

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Speaker 3: And also, you know, I like that you're pointing out

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Speaker 3: the idea of whether or not it's a corpse, because

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Speaker 3: if someone's not visibly moving, if they're not visibly breathing,

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Speaker 3: then the best way for you as a civilian, to

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Speaker 3: see if they're alive is to touch them, and so understandably,

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Speaker 3: our pal son yo Auer said, nah, let's call the cops.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a real that's a real. This a serious situation.

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Speaker 2: There to think about whether or not you actually physically

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Speaker 2: even walk over near the scene, right, you shouldn't. It's

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Speaker 2: just like we talked about with the gun, right, like,

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Speaker 2: what do you do? Like, probably the best thing as

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Speaker 2: a civilian is raise your hand and say, uh, some Boddy,

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Speaker 2: would the authority.

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Speaker 4: To professional do it?

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Speaker 2: Please?

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Speaker 4: Well, not only that, I mean the professional to help

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Speaker 4: the individual, but also to make sure that you're not

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Speaker 4: in some way seen as culpable or you know, or

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Speaker 4: do something wrong or get mixed up in something. By

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Speaker 4: the way, you guys, you know what, My first ever job.

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Speaker 3: Was laying in front of a Burger kingdomster.

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Speaker 4: Not not not in front, Okay, I did take a

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Speaker 4: lot of trash out to the Burger King dumpster that

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Speaker 4: you I worked at a Burger King. That was my

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Speaker 4: first job when I was like sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Dude, whoppers. Whoppers are awesome.

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Speaker 3: I didn't have one until like well into adulthood. We

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Speaker 3: were doing this show when I finally tried a whopper.

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Speaker 4: It's the superior fast food burger, there's no question about it.

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Speaker 4: But I learned and working there, that you can do

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Speaker 4: all kinds of stuff, you know, the whole have it

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Speaker 4: your way thing that's real. You can ask for it hot,

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Speaker 4: you can ask for it cut in half, you can

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Speaker 4: ask for it, you know, with all kinds of other fixings,

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Speaker 4: and yeah, if you ask for it hot, you get

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Speaker 4: a fresh one. And there's little little modifiers on the

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Speaker 4: cash redister for those things. They're very real. A lot

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Speaker 4: of secret menu stuff at Burger.

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Speaker 3: King, well you can get. You can get, like if

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Speaker 3: you go to a fast food place. I would hope

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Speaker 3: as long as you're not rude and winging and demanding,

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Speaker 3: you can get people to work with you, you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean, like for.

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Speaker 4: Sure, but it really is codified within the whole Burger

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Speaker 4: King Code of Ethics and Customer Service.

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Speaker 3: Well, one thing that is also codified at least this

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Speaker 3: Burger King is knowing when to contact authorities.

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Speaker 4: Yep, and they did that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and they did that, which is the correct move.

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Speaker 3: This person regains consciousness in the system. Now for the

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Speaker 3: purposes of law enforcement there in Richmond Hill, this would

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Speaker 3: be a John Doe no id right, because there are

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Speaker 3: no clothes. The officer on the scene did it. We

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Speaker 3: don't want to make them sound like a jerk, because

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Speaker 3: it was the logical thing. They in their report they

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Speaker 3: described this individual as a sleepy vagrant. Then the vagrant

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Speaker 3: catches a non consensual uber to Saint Joseph's Hospital in Savannah, Georgia,

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Speaker 3: where the hospital staff decides to call him Burger King Doe.

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Speaker 3: Doe great street name. But also also it makes sense

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Speaker 3: because if you are in a large medical facility in

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Speaker 3: a city and you get a lot of people who

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Speaker 3: are temporarily John Doe's, you have to differentiate between them.

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Speaker 3: So this is Burger King Doe.

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Speaker 4: And interestingly enough, you know they ran tests, they did

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Speaker 4: all the things. You know, he did have cataracts like

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Speaker 4: you mentioned, but he did not have it not test

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Speaker 4: positive for any illegal substances.

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Speaker 2: And you'll find in some reporting on this story that

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Speaker 2: people will state he was found bloodied or beaten like

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Speaker 2: It's not true, at least not according to the.

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Speaker 3: Reporting in Firing the New Republic.

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Speaker 2: The New Republic article that was published, like one of

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Speaker 2: the original ones that really talked about this in depth.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 2: They did say that there there were three small depressions

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Speaker 2: found on his.

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Speaker 3: Skull, but yeah, but they were older.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, they'd been around for a long time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he had some. He also had some scarring

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Speaker 3: h on his left arm and on his neck, but

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Speaker 3: these were old. These were not fresh wounds. The freshest

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Speaker 3: wounds he had were from fire ants. And as any

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Speaker 3: anyone who lives in the US can attest, fire ants

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Speaker 3: are not to be messed with.

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Speaker 2: Well, you'll get some weltz from that, but it's not

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Speaker 2: going to draw blood, right, and it's definitely not going

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Speaker 2: to mess with your mental state.

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Speaker 4: No, No, unless you have an allergy or something, it

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Speaker 4: could like cause you to go into some sort of shock,

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Speaker 4: but not not cognitive. I can't imagine even with.

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Speaker 3: No otherwise people would be getting high on fire ants,

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Speaker 3: which they're not curs.

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Speaker 4: You don't know.

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Speaker 3: Probably people have tried to get high on everything we're

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Speaker 3: talking about. Chist Cookbook, don't trust it. By the way,

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Speaker 3: the I have multiple versions of that work, and it's important,

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Speaker 3: but they're not all the same version. There's there's some

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Speaker 3: trolling in there, but it is how I found out

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Speaker 3: about nutmeg. The sailor's high.

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Speaker 4: So, so this guy is in a delightful seasoning for

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Speaker 4: your hot cocoa.

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Speaker 3: It's pretty great.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 3: So, this guy is of European descent, he's in his fifties.

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Speaker 3: Aside from his cataracts which are pretty severe, he looks

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Speaker 3: like an average dude health wise, as you pointed out.

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Speaker 3: And there's no trace of serious alcohol, no trace of

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Speaker 3: serious drugs in his system, nor are there traces of

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Speaker 3: long term drug abuse, which are also very visible. Right.

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Speaker 3: Uh And one doctor seemed a little surprised to say, oh, oh,

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Speaker 3: BK do his lab results are all within normal limits

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Speaker 3: and the main thing they could tell then it's like

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Speaker 3: you're looking at a car and you say, okay, the

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Speaker 3: engine works needs a new paint job.

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Speaker 4: But they's got no VEN number.

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Speaker 2: But there's no ven.

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Speaker 3: That's great. Yeah, actually I like that there's no vin.

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Speaker 3: And he had a long, scraggly beard with junk in it,

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Speaker 3: and his fingernails were all raggedy and dirty. But he

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Speaker 3: looked like a normal guy who had just been living

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Speaker 3: rough without explanation. Psychologically though, is very, very different, and

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Speaker 3: folks in the audience today who have medical experience, first,

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Speaker 3: thank you and Secondly, you might recognize some of these

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Speaker 3: symptoms we're about to describe. The guy refuses to eat

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Speaker 3: or speak at first. He's in Saint Joe for about

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Speaker 3: eight days. He does speak occasionally, like he comes out

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Speaker 3: of his shell a little bit, but mainly to beef

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Speaker 3: up with the doctors. He doesn't want the doctors or

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Speaker 3: the nurses, anyone on the staff to interact with him.

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Speaker 3: The few things he does say are pretty confusing. He

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Speaker 3: says he lived in the woods for about seventeen years.

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Speaker 3: When they asked him about his identity, he gave them

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Speaker 3: a version of the name they had put on him

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Speaker 3: in the hospital. He said they called me BK around here,

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Speaker 3: and whenever someone said okay, yeah, sure, but what's your

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Speaker 3: real name, he would say they were confusing him and

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Speaker 3: say they were confusing him on purpose, and then he

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Speaker 3: would either go back to sleep or feign sleep.

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Speaker 1: M M.

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Speaker 4: So let's gett through to the psych word and put

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Speaker 4: him on hal Doll, right is the next logical movie.

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Speaker 4: I know, I know it's protocol. He was like calling

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Speaker 4: the nurses' staff demons and you know, spitting at people

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Speaker 4: and stuff.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was yeah, and he was a potentially

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Speaker 2: physical danger to them. He was, you know, like thrashing

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Speaker 2: out at them, right.

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Speaker 3: He had to be restrained.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, putting him. I understand what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: You know, like it seems like a jump, right, but

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Speaker 2: he was, like he did seem like he could potentially

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Speaker 2: be dangerous, especially given his like confusion, his state of

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Speaker 2: confusion he seemed to be in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got some I've got some uh contacts who

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Speaker 3: work at a hospital in Atlanta called Grady, And yeah.

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Speaker 5: I could see ut We're in audio podcasts and so folks, Paul,

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Speaker 5: you probably saw this too.

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Speaker 3: As soon as I said Grady, Matt and Noel both

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Speaker 3: at once went because we all know great Grady is.

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Speaker 3: Grady has one of the best burned slash trauma units

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Speaker 3: in this part of the country and therefore the world.

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Speaker 3: It also is a place that has a lot of

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Speaker 3: similar situations, mental illness, unhoused people, things can get rough.

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Speaker 3: Folks have to be restrained. If law enforcement arrest someone

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Speaker 3: and has to take them to the hospital, they often

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Speaker 3: take them to Grady and handcuff them.

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Speaker 4: Correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't there a law or

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Speaker 4: something some policy at Grady where you can if you

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Speaker 4: go to the emergency room, it's not going to like

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Speaker 4: bankrupt you like there's a thing.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that's correct, and it's good that that exists.

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Speaker 4: But it also makes it a heavily trafficked hospital to

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Speaker 4: your point, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know people don't go to hospitals for fun, right.

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Speaker 3: If you go in the waiting room of a hospital,

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Speaker 3: no one in there is having the best day of

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Speaker 3: their life, right, So I mean outside of maternity wards anyway,

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Speaker 3: So doctors figure this guy for a catatonic schizophrenic. He's

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Speaker 3: got all he's showing the signs of this, and without

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Speaker 3: further analysis, that's a reasonable assumption, Like you said, Noel,

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Speaker 3: they prescribe haldall non consensually dose him up with this

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Speaker 3: pretty strong antipsychotic, and they transfer him to a psychological

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Speaker 3: ward at another hospital across town. It's called memorial. Whole

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Speaker 3: time when they can get through to the dude, he

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Speaker 3: is saying he has no idea where he's from, he

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Speaker 3: has no idea who he is, and he has no

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Speaker 3: idea how he ended up in Georgia in the first place.

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Speaker 3: It's like a sudden moment of clarity, of lucidity decades

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Speaker 3: into his life, and he had a vague series of

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Speaker 3: you could call them images in tableau about his life

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Speaker 3: before he was found in front of that burger king stuff.

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Speaker 3: You should know, by the way, shout out credit where

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Speaker 3: it's due. They did a great episode on this several

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Speaker 3: years back, and I think it was I want to

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Speaker 3: say it was before the revelations that we're about to

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Speaker 3: explore today.

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Speaker 2: But well, let's talk about that. Tableau is just really fast,

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Speaker 2: because yeah, what did he know?

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Speaker 3: What did he say?

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Speaker 2: It was things like I remember the inside of this

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Speaker 2: one movie theater. I remember I think I worked in

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Speaker 2: a restaurant, because I you know, I remember certain things

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Speaker 2: about a restaurant.

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Speaker 3: I think I had of a spidy sense that I'm

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Speaker 3: from Indianapolis. I have three brothers. He was certain about

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Speaker 3: one thing. He didn't know his Social Security number, right,

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Speaker 3: was huge problem. He didn't know any parents' names, any

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Speaker 3: family names. But he was certain that he was born

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Speaker 3: on August twenty ninth, nineteen forty eight, and he said

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Speaker 3: he had the He said he knew this because he

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Speaker 3: had the same birthday as Michael Jackson just ten years earlier.

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Speaker 2: Wow, it's really interesting. Well, you know, and as an

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Speaker 2: attending doctor for somebody like this, you've probably seen something

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Speaker 2: very similar before, where in the end of that interaction

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Speaker 2: you find out, oh that that person was putting it on,

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Speaker 2: they were faking it. So you might then apply that

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Speaker 2: same logic to this situation. Say, this guy's, yeah, come on,

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Speaker 2: he's trying to get away from something, right, Why would

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Speaker 2: you feign amnesia like that? You're you're running from the law, right.

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Speaker 2: But again, that's just logic kind of taking over.

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Speaker 3: Right, right, And we're not painting the doctors here as

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Speaker 3: jerks at all. They're working off precedent, and say ten

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Speaker 3: people who are claiming they have this kind of amnesia,

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Speaker 3: they're going to they're going to get better, or they're

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Speaker 3: going to reveal that they had untoward motives.

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Speaker 4: Well, and saying, I mean, I'm you know, maybe I

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Speaker 4: don't mean to sound flippant or like I'm disregarding medical professionals.

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Speaker 4: I know it's very difficult to be, you know, a

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Speaker 4: physician in one of these high pressure situations. We obviously

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Speaker 4: have a lot of work to do on the healthcare

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Speaker 4: system in this country, but they're following protocol. I mean,

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Speaker 4: at an operation of that scale like this or like

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Speaker 4: a Grady situation, you have to tick boxes. There's only

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Speaker 4: you have to follow a certain standard operating procedure, and

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Speaker 4: that's just that's what you do. It's the only way

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Speaker 4: to get people through and to make sure that people

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Speaker 4: get the best care possible, which you know, maybe isn't

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Speaker 4: always the best care, but it's the best care possible.

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Speaker 3: And so we've got if we look at our timeline now, right,

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Speaker 3: it's August two thousand and four, eight days at Saint Joseph's.

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Speaker 3: He ends up in that psych ward at Memorial for

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Speaker 3: four months, and after this he is transferred to kind

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Speaker 3: of a halfway house, a place for people who need

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Speaker 3: help or assistance in one way or another called J. C.

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Speaker 3: Lewis Primary Healthcare Center, and he tells the staff he's

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Speaker 3: tired of going by the name BK or BK do,

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Speaker 3: so he chooses his own name, just like you're in

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Speaker 3: witness protection, which will come up later. He goes by

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Speaker 3: the name Benjaman Kyle until someone can help him find

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Speaker 3: his identity, So still BK technically, you know, right, yeah, Matt,

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Speaker 3: you were saying that off air too, Like that's you'd say,

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Speaker 3: like that's how he went with it. Or part of

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Speaker 3: the inspiration. We're speculating, but that does have the ring

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Speaker 3: of truth. Also, he makes a good name for himself.

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Speaker 3: He's not a crazy dude. He likes to assist. He's

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Speaker 3: volunteering to do chores. He's clearly articulate. He is able.

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Speaker 3: This is important. He's able to remember the people and

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Speaker 3: the events over there at JC Lewis Primary Healthcare Center. Right,

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Speaker 3: there's a store. Sorry again in this great New Republic

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Speaker 3: article by Matt Wolfe, where he apparently goes into the

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Speaker 3: supply closet or the clothing donation bend and dresses in

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Speaker 3: a way that's like a staff uniform, and he wants

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Speaker 3: to help mop up, even though he can't see very well.

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Speaker 3: He's basically legally blind at this point. And he starts

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Speaker 3: to make friends as Benjamin Kyle, and for years and

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Speaker 3: years no one can figure out who he was, at

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Speaker 3: least that is until twenty fifteen. We're gonna pause for

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Speaker 3: a word from our sponsor, and then we'll dive further

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Speaker 3: into the strange case of Benjamin Kyle. Here's where it

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Speaker 3: gets crazy. Sometimes it just takes one person, one person caring.

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Speaker 3: You know, history hinges on these tiny things in this case,

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Speaker 3: I would posit that a lot of the credit for

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Speaker 3: solving the mystery goes to a nurse at Elsie Lewis

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Speaker 3: named Catherine Slater.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting you pointed out Ben in the outline

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Speaker 4: the idea of like, you know, living off the grid

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Speaker 4: even or just having no identity isn't exactly a crime.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I guess it's technically you're supposed to have

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Speaker 4: a Social Security number, right, I mean, is that the law?

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Speaker 4: Do you have to have one?

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Speaker 3: You can use an a tax ID or an EI

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Speaker 3: and some some like income tax activists go with that,

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Speaker 3: got it?

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Speaker 4: So Yeah, to your point, like, there wasn't like a

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Speaker 4: criminal you know, report file because I guess a crime

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Speaker 4: hadn't really been committed other than like, you know, he

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Speaker 4: was naked, but he was you know, a victim essentially, right,

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Speaker 4: So he wasn't a criminal. So therefore the was really

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Speaker 4: no follow through you know from either the FBI and

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Speaker 4: Savannah or the police you know who initially came to

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Speaker 4: the scene at that Burger king right.

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Speaker 3: Right, Like to Matt's point, he wasn't actually beaten. That's

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Speaker 3: some misreporting. Uh So who are you gonna file a

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Speaker 3: criminal complaint against the fire ants. You're gonna take him

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Speaker 3: to like fire ants court. How does that even work?

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Speaker 3: Corurie for ants.

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Speaker 2: Let's uh, let's get into this person who helped bk

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Speaker 2: Benjamin out, Catherine Slater, because she's really important. She she

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Speaker 2: worked a late shift, like a night shift at the

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Speaker 2: same time when Benjamin Kyle was doing a lot of

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Speaker 2: work there, some of the volunteer work, and they ended

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Speaker 2: up just striking up of friendship and they started just

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Speaker 2: talking with each other, being very friendly. And she is

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Speaker 2: the one who basically was like, I saw him as

435
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: way more than just this guy who's also you know

436
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: who's there a patient. She saw him as a human being,

437
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: as somebody that she wanted to help.

438
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again that's the thing, is the humanity, right,

439
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 3: the empathy inherent here. She's also a bit of a bloodhound, right.

440
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 3: She has an investigative, interrogative nature. She's the one who

441
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 3: reaches out to the FBI. She's the one who reaches

442
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 3: out to the cops and they say, rightly in their defense,

443
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 3: they say, well, there's not really a crime here. And

444
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 3: at this point we should talk a little bit about

445
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 3: the FBI. They have currently as of twenty twenty three,

446
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 3: as we're recording, they have the world's largest known fingerprint database.

447
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 3: I'm snarkily sneaking in largest known because between between just

448
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 3: us and the Puzzle Palace folks, I'm pretty sure that

449
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 3: five Eyes has more fingerprints.

450
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, just think about all the background checks.

451
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 2: There are basically two reasons why you were going to

452
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 2: get fingerprinted in the United States at least, and it

453
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 2: does vary by state, of course, because we have states loss.

454
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: But it's because you get picked up for some misdemeanor

455
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 2: to a felony, right, something criminally wrong you did, You're

456
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,479
Speaker 2: going to get all ten year digits fingerprinted, or you

457
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: have to go through a criminal background check to get

458
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 2: a job or to get approval for a couple different things.

459
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 3: Interesting other aspect here, and I'm surprised more people don't

460
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: talk about this. There was a mass collection of innocent

461
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 3: people's fingerprints with identic kits for kids, right, Yeah, that's

462
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 3: how they got a lot of people. But weirdly enough,

463
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 3: Benjaman Kyle doesn't have his pause on any of these databases,

464
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 3: so the FBI gets in this weird like Joseph Heller

465
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 3: esque Catch twenty two situation. They know the guy, they

466
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 3: know where he is, but they don't know who he is,

467
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 3: so they put them on their missing person's page. They

468
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 3: contact Interpool and they have to explain this to Interpool. Yeah,

469
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 3: we got a missing person. I mean he's here, I guess,

470
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 3: but we don't know who he is. Do you do

471
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 3: you got any leads? What about you? Canada? And they're like, oh,

472
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 3: break this down to me And I was like, well,

473
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 3: he's missing, but he's not missing. How do you define missing?

474
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 3: Shout out to this one special agent who went off

475
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 3: the books, did the right thing, contacted the marshals discreetly

476
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 3: in the US and said, Hey, is this guy maybe

477
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 3: in witness protection And they said, no, we don't know

478
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 3: who he is. Have you have you tried to run

479
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 3: his fingerprints? And he's like, my god, you guys, dude.

480
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 2: We need we need to get iris scanners for everyone, right, protect.

481
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 3: Your children, give all their biometric data over to to

482
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 3: an Orwellian government. So shout out to you an employee

483
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 3: at the GBI, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, because every

484
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 3: every state has a Bureau of Investigation.

485
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: How about just a big old roundom applause for the GBI.

486
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 2: I know they're doing a ton of work that we

487
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: really don't hear about very often. Good work.

488
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh did I tell you? I one of my

489
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 3: old friends, and I probably shouldn't say the name on

490
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 3: air may have mentioned before works for the GBI in

491
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 3: basically in the level of forensics where you go in

492
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 3: and figure out how people died. And this person's sense

493
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 3: of humor ten out of ten.

494
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I imagine these are off air stories because

495
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 4: we don't want to get too specific.

496
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 3: But remind me when we're not recording, there's this thing

497
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 3: with the lava lamp. You gotta hear it. Yeah, it's

498
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 3: exactly what you're thinking. I says, of course it is,

499
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: of course it is. So okay, let's talk about this

500
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:06,959
Speaker 3: GBI employee, Bo Preston. Bo Preston is training law enforcement

501
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 3: in the ins and outs of using this enormous FBI database. Right.

502
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: This thing is labyrinthine. There's a lot of stuff there. You,

503
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 3: It's not like riding a bike, right, So Bo Preston,

504
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 3: she knows the system better than anyone else. So she

505
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: is the person who is probably best suited to figure

506
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 3: out whether this guy Benjaman Kyle is there under a

507
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 3: different name.

508
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 4: So in this database you find eighty thousand active missing

509
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,479
Speaker 4: person's cases and over the next year again, you know,

510
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 4: just to your point, Ben Preston taking this upon herself,

511
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 4: actually you know, combed through three hundred and fifty cases

512
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 4: generated by the system personally with no real you know, results,

513
00:30:59,000 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 4: no hits.

514
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 3: She was trying to find stuff that could possibly be

515
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 3: tied to this guy. So like she's plugged in demographic

516
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 3: data basically right, bereft of fingerprints, that's what she's checking.

517
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 4: So then she had a pretty genius idea to you know,

518
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 4: incorporate Kyle's case into her training curriculum, you know, which

519
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 4: made sense because it was a teachable kind of case

520
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 4: in terms of how to deal with cases folks like this,

521
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 4: but also perhaps one of the trainees may recognize them,

522
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 4: you know, that's really what it takes.

523
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: Sad yeah, it is well, it is well, and sadly

524
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: none of that works. Nobody still, nobody recognizes this.

525
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 3: Picture that moment in every class she's teaching, you know,

526
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 3: where you're essentially playing the lottery and you're like, and

527
00:31:53,560 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 3: here's one we couldn't find anybody, bueller, and it just yeah,

528
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: so prop suppressed him because that's the right thing to do.

529
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 3: But again, looks like there are no leads. It's two

530
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 3: thousand and seven, so it's three years since Kyle was found,

531
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 3: right since BK Doe was found in that Burger King

532
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: parking lot. And this nurse, Catherine Slater, reaches out to

533
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 3: the media. Benjaman Kyle becomes a news phenomenon. The story

534
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 3: is first reported in Savannah. National media picks it up.

535
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 3: He's on NBC, he's on ABC, you name it. He

536
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 3: starts a Facebook page, and as we all know, Facebook

537
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 3: is really good at getting personal information. But even Mark

538
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 3: Zuckerberg doesn't know who this guy is. I feel like

539
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 3: I walked a little bit down the street to take

540
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: that potshot at zucks.

541
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 4: Because he's like personally going through all of our private

542
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 4: data for laughs.

543
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, who is this guy?

544
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 4: Yeah?

545
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 3: But every year, four years, each and every single attempt

546
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 3: to discover this dude's true or former identity ended up

547
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 3: with bupkis failure across the board.

548
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: And it's not like he wasn't shown on the news,

549
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 2: Like seriously, the news, Benjamin's face was on there, there

550
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: were reports about him. He went on Reddit and did

551
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: an ama and This isn't a time when Reddit was

552
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: in its heyday, when everybody was like, oh, we got

553
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: to use Reddit. Reddit's the best. At least that's when

554
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: I think that's a week on Unreddit and AMAS were

555
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 2: a big deal there, at least for a while. I'm

556
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: not sure where they stand right now. But he went on,

557
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: he did all that stuff, nobody recognized him. Still it's

558
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: ten years later and nobody knows this guy.

559
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 3: And so again it sounds like we're shouting this guy

560
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 3: out a lot. The journalist Matt Wolf, with whom we

561
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 3: have not spoken directly, but right now, Wolf has, at

562
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 3: least for my been bucks, Wolf has the best reporting

563
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 3: on this in the New Republic. He really the story.

564
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 3: Yeah he he. Wolf has this beautiful quote where he

565
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 3: notes just how extraordinary and unusual and disturbing the Kyle cases.

566
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 3: He says, quote, we live in an age of extraordinary

567
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 3: surveillance and documentation. The government's capacity to keep tabs on

568
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 3: us and our capacity to keep tabs on each other

569
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 3: is unmatched in human history. Matt Wolfe, welcome to the show.

570
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 3: We've been waiting for you.

571
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 4: Hello, Hello, old imagine Ben.

572
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: Please Well, Matt goes into like the NSA's you know

573
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,439
Speaker 2: capabilities and like outlines a lot of the stuff we've

574
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 2: discussed on this show, and I love, I love. He

575
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 2: points out how ridiculous it is. It seems ridiculous that

576
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 2: somebody could fall through the cracks.

577
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, this guy is a ghost. This is a real

578
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 3: weird habbyist corpus case.

579
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 4: You know, you have the.

580
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,439
Speaker 3: Body but nothing else, right this guy, like, this guy

581
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 3: is either the worst person at committing pseudo side or

582
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 3: he's telling the truth. And even if this is a

583
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 3: great point in your public article, even if Benjamin Kyle

584
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 3: quote unquote is faking amnesia, there would have been some

585
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 3: trace of him somewhere. Again, logically, it would just be

586
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 3: a case of finding the name.

587
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 2: Right.

588
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 3: We're looking for someone who's never had military service, They've

589
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: never had a background check, they've never been arrested at

590
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 3: least brought in right even to a tank. And they

591
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 3: are not one of those generations that got signed up

592
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 3: to fingerprinting in childhood. Let's intro guy out of Atlanta,

593
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 3: our hometown, a neuropsychologist named Jason King. Jason King is

594
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 3: the first expert who really gets an in depth psychological

595
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 3: analysis of Kyle.

596
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was able to take a look at him,

597
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 4: speak with him, examine him directly, and he came to

598
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 4: the conclusion that Kyle was likely suffering from what's called

599
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 4: dissociative amnesia, which, as you may have put together, is

600
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 4: a kind of memory loss that is specifically brought about

601
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 4: by trauma stress associated with trauma specifically. So in two

602
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 4: thousand and eight, Slater and Kyle do what the next

603
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 4: logical step here is to fly to la and go

604
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 4: on the Doctor Phil Show. I'm sorry, I'm only laughing

605
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 4: because it's just, you know, it is you know, I

606
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 4: know what you're gonna say, Matt, and you're totally right.

607
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 4: I think it's another way of blasting this out, you know,

608
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 4: giving it a wider audience, a wider reach, in the

609
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 4: hopes of, you know, turning up some results.

610
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 3: Still is a terrible person.

611
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 2: Well he is despite all that. In two thousand and eight,

612
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 2: Doctor Phil is the huge Yeah, I mean seriously, two

613
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 2: thousand and eight, Doctor Phil's a little hits a little

614
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 2: different than he does right out because he was so

615
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: he was well liked by millions of people, and that

616
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 2: you can see that by the numbers here, right, It's

617
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: not like nobody saw that episode.

618
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, more than four million people tune in

619
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 3: when the episode goes live October sixteenth, two thousand and eight.

620
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 3: It's it's a segment called or the episode is called

621
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 3: who am I? And spoiler, they don't answer it because

622
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 3: they're trying, you know, and they can't do it. And

623
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 3: you can you can see that Catherine Slater, you know,

624
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 3: she accompanies Benjamin Kyle. She doesn't want to go on air,

625
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 3: but the producers really push her to do so, so

626
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 3: against her better judgment, she becomes part of the Brujaha.

627
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,720
Speaker 3: And now we have to think, right, So people see

628
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 3: their doctor Phil's segment or whatever, they see their evening

629
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 3: news at their regional affiliate and they think, huh, that's weird,

630
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 3: and they might go to internet forums and do some

631
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 3: armchair sleuthing, but eventually they forget about the story. And

632
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 3: the thing about news cycles is that the stories continue

633
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 3: well after ABC or NBC or insert here stops talking

634
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 3: about it. And I think we should pause just to

635
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 3: acknowledge how much the situation there's no other way to

636
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 3: say it. The situation sucks for this guy you think of, like, okay,

637
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 3: so there's like an order of operations to exist in

638
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 3: US society, right, you got to have a Social Security number.

639
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 3: You gotta have some version of a birth certificate, whether

640
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 3: it's from Hawaii or Kenya. Who hot takes?

641
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, how do you get something like Barack.

642
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 3: Obama was born in the US. It's pretty yeah, yeah.

643
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: Okay, now I'm just joking, but no, but really, so

644
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 2: you don't have a birth certificate, how do you get

645
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 2: something like a Social Security number which is issued after you,

646
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 2: like right after you're born.

647
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I was kind of getting at too

648
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 4: earlier about like, is not illegal to not have a

649
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 4: Social Security number?

650
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 3: But I guess you do.

651
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 4: You are supposed to have some sort of identifying you know,

652
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 4: like the VIN number argument to me alive, you're supposed

653
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 4: to be tagged.

654
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 2: If you don't have those two things, what form of

655
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 2: identification are you taken down to the DMV to get

656
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 2: a driver's license or a state I D.

657
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 3: Right, I would say again, you can get that like

658
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 3: tax i D thing or.

659
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 2: With what though, what do you get a tax ID with? Well?

660
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 2: That's people who are in.

661
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:04,439
Speaker 3: This guy parents can do this. It is to your point, Noel,

662
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 3: is not illegal on the books to not have a

663
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 3: social security number. But I would argue it is functionally illegal. Yeah,

664
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 3: the same way like in the movie Gadiga, which is

665
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 3: an awesome film. In the movie Gadiga, they don't make

666
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 3: it illegal not to be genetically modified. They just make

667
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 3: it in practice impossible to succeed in society.

668
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 4: Prohibitably difficult to just live do basic things.

669
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 3: You know, you price people out.

670
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, dude, I mean I had to get my mom's

671
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 4: car title transferred to me. I went to the DMV

672
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 4: in two cities no less than six times before I

673
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 4: was before I had all the appropriate documentation, you know.

674
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 4: So bureaucracy is.

675
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 3: A and so this guy like, it's terrible. You can't

676
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 3: get a job, you can't get a house, car, a

677
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 3: bank loan of any sort, you know what I mean.

678
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 3: And if you ever get jammed up with the law,

679
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 3: things immediately escalate. Who is this guy? You know what

680
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 3: I mean? What's your real name? I don't Oh, I amnesia.

681
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 3: I bet buddy, get in the car. So, luckily we

682
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 3: said this was going to be a bit of a

683
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 3: good news episode. Luckily there is good news. DNA came

684
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 3: into play. So we're going to pause for a word

685
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 3: from our sponsors and then we'll come back with some

686
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 3: good news and some well you know, the show, some

687
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 3: disturbing questions.

688
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: And we've returned. Okay, so we've discussed testing this person

689
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,879
Speaker 2: by looking at any potential documentation that could exist around him. Nope,

690
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: can't check that box off. We've tested his fingerprints, Nope,

691
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 2: not in any databases. We've even looked at his DNA,

692
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 2: but it's not in databases either. There's another technique that

693
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 2: is developing around this time in twenty fifteen. Well it's

694
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 2: a little before that, but it's really becoming a more

695
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: robust set of technologies and techniques called forensic genealogy, where

696
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,479
Speaker 2: you take somebody's DNA and you compare it to other

697
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 2: samples of DNA that have been given. Right, We've talked

698
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 2: about this with several case companies that do this, and

699
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: yet we talked about it with cold cases like with

700
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 2: the Golden State killer. What if we run his genetic

701
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 2: data through one of these processes.

702
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 3: And this is where we want to shout out. A

703
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 3: team of genealogical forensics folks led by CC MORE, Capital CE,

704
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 3: Capital CE and More gets into the trenches, right, and

705
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 3: they're finding some relatively weak matches, but then they hit

706
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 3: the mother load. They find a very strong match. They

707
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 3: also find a couple of implied skeletons in the closet,

708
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 3: things that are described euphemistically as non paternity events. Whole

709
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 3: other bag of badgers doesn't really matter for this story.

710
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 3: What does matter is that CC Moore and team found

711
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 3: a connection for Benjamin Kyle. And he goes on to

712
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 3: his Facebook page and he says the following.

713
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 4: A little over two months ago, I was informed by

714
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 4: ccmore they had established my identity using DNA. Many people

715
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 4: have shared their DNA profiles that they may be compared

716
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 4: with mine. Through a process of elimination, they determined my

717
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 4: ancestral bloodline and who my relatives were. A DNA test

718
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 4: taken by a close relative has confirmed that we are related.

719
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 4: And this was all courtesy of Moore's company, the DNA

720
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 4: Detectives dot Com, who spent two years working on this case.

721
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 4: So it's not just like a Google search, you know,

722
00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 4: genetic Google search. The word detectives here is pretty appropriate.

723
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 3: So the guy says, he always said back when he's

724
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 3: bk do, he always said he vaguely thought he was

725
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,760
Speaker 3: from Indianapolis. He felt very certain that he knew his birthday,

726
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 3: and he related to Michael Jackson, the King of pop

727
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 3: And he also had a couple of other vague spidery

728
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 3: sense recollections. C. C. Moore and her company they mentioned

729
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 3: DNA detectives. They go through this quite throw process of elimination.

730
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:35,760
Speaker 3: Eventually they find a family called the Powells or group

731
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 3: of families, and then from there they find a subgroup,

732
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 3: a very specific set of Powells, and these Powells are

733
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 3: in Lafayette, Indiana. Ultimately, she and her team get to

734
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 3: a high school yearbook from nineteen sixty seven in the

735
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 3: town and in the book a picture of a guy

736
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 3: named William Powell. He is in tenth grade when the

737
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 3: picture is taken. He's wearing glasses, he's wearing plaid. You

738
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 3: can you can find the picture and it's one of

739
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 3: the You know, they're at a weird point here because

740
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 3: for a decade people have been looking at this picture

741
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 3: Benjamin Kyle and saying, hey, you look kind of like

742
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 3: a guy I saw at a waffle house. That's true,

743
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 3: that's someone said that. So now they're armed with DNA, right,

744
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 3: So now a physical resemblance matters a lot more. At

745
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 3: the same time. By the way, his life still stinks.

746
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 3: He's forced off the grid because he doesn't have the

747
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 3: paperwork and the id that you need to exist in

748
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 3: this country. An outfit out of Orlando, a nonprofit called

749
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 3: I Dignity get it?

750
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 2: They they are an id ignity.

751
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 3: You know, it's I dig nitty Nity. So so Nitty

752
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 3: hells him out, uh with get with getting a Florida

753
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 3: I d And just a month later, it's November twenty

754
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 3: first he officially finds out who he was, or who

755
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 3: he used to be. Q gat ye his real name,

756
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 3: William Burgess Powell. That's a person he used to know.

757
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 2: Is that another reference? That's a person that he used

758
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 2: to know.

759
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 3: This so it is a good song. He was right

760
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 3: about his birthday.

761
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 2: Right, and he was right about going with a b

762
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 2: as a first name, Billy, right, he probably grown up?

763
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 2: He was probably Billy.

764
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm, yes, yes, very presumptuous if you're mad. It's

765
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,479
Speaker 4: a very diminutive nickname, you know, are you kidding? Should

766
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 4: be should be saddled with the billy? It's yeah, he does.

767
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 4: He doesn't even go by that anymore. He goes by William.

768
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 5: Oh, all right, he doesn't go William okay so also

769
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 5: named shout out, I Bet, I bet the hardest of

770
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 5: hard cases that listens to the show right now goes

771
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 5: by Billy seriously there and they're that name.

772
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 2: Wetstone, you know, Billy magnuson right now, come on, let's go.

773
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 3: So Yeah, he does go away Bill. It seems okay,

774
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 3: but the mystery is not solved because all this reporting, right,

775
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 3: we found the name of the former identity, and it

776
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 3: does not seem like the guy is faking. Nobody said, hey,

777
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 3: this uh Willie Powell jerk skip Town, and he's responsible

778
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 3: for rampant selling of loose cigarettes and counterfeit stamps or anything.

779
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 3: He's not running from anything.

780
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, like crime.

781
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 3: But what happened we don't know.

782
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 2: Man.

783
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 3: Sometime in nineteen seventy six, it looks like he cut

784
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 3: ties with everyone. He took the first steps toward pseudo side.

785
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,959
Speaker 3: He abandoned his life. He was living in mobile home

786
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 3: at the time. He had a car. He just left

787
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 3: him there and skipped down to Colorado with a coworker.

788
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and his brother attempted to find him for years.

789
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 2: His brother created a missing persons report, and his brother

790
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 2: had been looking for him for forty years and he

791
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,439
Speaker 2: basically gave up. He was like, oh, it's been forty years.

792
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 2: This guy he died somewhere. I just don't know. And

793
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 2: that's it. I guess that's it.

794
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 3: And William Powell slash Benjamin Kyle was twenty five when

795
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 3: he moved to Colorado. Also, you can find other reports

796
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 3: that the home life of the Powells was not super great.

797
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,760
Speaker 3: The brother Furman, who will get to in a second,

798
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 3: He is on record in multiple sources saying that their

799
00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 3: father was at times abusive and that he believes his

800
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 3: brother William got the worst of it.

801
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, amnesia. Well, so, yeah, that's that's the

802
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 4: operative word, right, Ben. I mean, we were talking about

803
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 4: this dissociative amnesia having you know, been I guess diagnosed.

804
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 4: Was it an official diagnosis or was it just sort

805
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 4: of like I speculate that this is what it is anyway,

806
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 4: whether whether or not that's the case brought on by trauma,

807
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 4: serious emotional trauma. So we know that there's some mental

808
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 4: health issues at play that probably would have been at play,

809
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 4: you know, from the beginning when when this when this

810
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,439
Speaker 4: person did split down.

811
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this the neuropsychologist Jason King from Atlanta is

812
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 3: qualified to diagnose people with these states. So that's why

813
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 3: we bring that guy up, because it's important to have

814
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 3: an expert. It's not just someone who is not familiar

815
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 3: with these like disciplines and assessments. It's a guy who

816
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 3: knows what he's talking about. And we'll get back to

817
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 3: him in a second. What we need to know is

818
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 3: that again our journalists here, Matt Wolfe, was able to

819
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:12,720
Speaker 3: confirm by tracing Powell's security number that as William Powell,

820
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 3: Benjamin Kyle worked a couple of different jobs at least

821
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 3: until nineteen seventy seven. The last case is nineteen eighty three,

822
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 3: and from nineteen eighty three all the way to two

823
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 3: thousand and four, this guy was a ghost, which is

824
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 3: very difficult to do. Cecymore reaches out to the brother

825
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 3: that you mentioned earlier, Matt Furman. Powell and Benjamin, who

826
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 3: now goes by Bill ended up moving back to Indiana.

827
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 3: In a great piece by the Journal Courier, you can

828
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 3: you can see how his life has progressed. That Courier

829
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 3: piece is from twenty sixteen. I think he's now just

830
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 3: a regular dude. This summer August is coming up as

831
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:06,439
Speaker 3: we record Bill Powell Benjamin Kyle will be seventy five

832
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 3: years old as a happy ending. But there's a mysterious ending.

833
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 3: No one sure what happened. What could cause somebody to

834
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 3: completely lose track of themselves, especially because people are obsessed

835
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:23,959
Speaker 3: with themselves. How would you just forget all.

836
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 2: That, especially considering he wasn't on a bunch of drugs, right,

837
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 2: or at least he had been off of drugs for

838
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 2: a long enough time to where they were not detectable

839
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 2: within his system. Right. It's not as though he was

840
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,760
Speaker 2: out drinking every night because again, alcohol was not detected

841
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 2: in his system when he was found unresponsive or like

842
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 2: mostly unresponsive. I don't know, man, it feels like he

843
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 2: did get in some kind of altercation at some point

844
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 2: because of those small indentations within his skull that were

845
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: first discovered when he was found. Because that feels like

846
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 2: some you know, being hidden with something, probably not an

847
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,879
Speaker 2: impact of from a fall at least again, that's can't say,

848
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 2: but that's just what you know if you're deducing it.

849
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 4: I I don't know.

850
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 2: It feels like he maybe did get rattled at some

851
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 2: point when he was living rough.

852
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 3: Right, And well, we also fair point. We also don't

853
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 3: really know if he was living rough. Like the evidence

854
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 3: is the fingernails and the beard. He might just thought

855
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 3: have been super into super into hygiene. More severe like

856
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:37,359
Speaker 3: mild head injuries don't cause long term amnesia, but more

857
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:41,879
Speaker 3: severe injuries can cause permanent amnetzsa. This guy is still

858
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,359
Speaker 3: rediscovering his life, you know what I mean. Imagine if

859
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 3: you woke up one day and you found out that

860
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:52,280
Speaker 3: for decades you were you were a completely different person,

861
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 3: and you only had a few things in common. You know,

862
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 3: this is where we have to mention the good folks

863
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 3: at the National Missing and I Identified Person's System here

864
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 3: in the US street name NAMOS. NAMOS is part of

865
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,399
Speaker 3: the US Department of Justice, and they have a lot

866
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 3: of databases, but they're still struggling to assist what they

867
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 3: call the quote living unidentified. And while Powell Slash Kyle's

868
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 3: case is the most famous by far, he's not unique.

869
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 3: There are other living unidentified people And I don't know,

870
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 3: maybe we intd this way. Could he have faked it?

871
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 3: Could he have faked the whole thing for some unknown reason?

872
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 4: You know, there's a really really excellent film called Moros Perros.

873
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 4: There's a character who's like he's an assassin, but he

874
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,720
Speaker 4: looks like a vagrant and he does that by design

875
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 4: where at the end it's minor spoiler. I guess he

876
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 4: needs to make a getaway, so he trims his fingernail

877
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 4: and he cuts off his beard and he looks like

878
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 4: a completely different person. And I always thought that was

879
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 4: really brilliant, like storytelling. It's like, oh, what a great

880
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 4: way to operate under the radar, you know, like as

881
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 4: as kind of like you know, because he's invisible for

882
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 4: all intents and purposes. That's people don't regard folks like

883
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 4: that with much attention, you know, so they can kind

884
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 4: of float in and out and do what they need

885
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 4: to do. And that just always does this makes me

886
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 4: think of that. I mean, I'm sorry the roundabout way

887
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 4: of saying, I don't think that he faked it, but

888
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 4: if he did, maybe it was something like that, and

889
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 4: it would have to be hella calculated, you know what

890
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:40,240
Speaker 4: I mean, Like, really to to trick this, this psychologist

891
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 4: and ben Off Mike you pointed out, the only way

892
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 4: to truly know it would be to do some really

893
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 4: intense tests hooked up to you know, to monitor brainwaves.

894
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 3: City you would have to you would have to do

895
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 3: he would have to do active brain monitoring while asking

896
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 3: polygra level questions, right, what day is it? And then

897
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 3: measure brain activity, right, what's your name? Measure brain activity?

898
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 4: Right?

899
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,959
Speaker 3: Who is the president? And he knew these he knew

900
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 3: these third party facts, like when he was in the

901
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 3: hospital out in Saint Joseph's he knew who the president was.

902
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,240
Speaker 3: Like He's true, wasn't completely adrift.

903
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 2: He even knew about the invasion of Iraq in two

904
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 2: thousand and three.

905
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 3: So yeah, guy was up to speed on a lot

906
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 3: of things, just not himself, which you know, not not

907
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 3: to sound flip about it, but this is this is

908
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 3: a real thing. And because people still don't know exactly

909
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 3: how it happened. I like your theory, Matt about possible

910
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 3: traumatic brain injury, just because it seems most logical and

911
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 3: most possible. But without knowing how it happened, we can

912
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 3: only speculate that it could happen again. It could happen

913
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 3: to someone, I mean, anybody walking down the street. Could

914
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 3: it happened? Cute cheesy, dramatic music to you.

915
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,320
Speaker 2: See, this is why we all, everybody on the planet

916
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 2: needs to get on the back of their neck, a

917
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 2: QR code tattooed that has all of your information, you.

918
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 3: Know what I mean.

919
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 4: Also get a little tattoo on our inner wrists while

920
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 4: we're at it.

921
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: Huh. I think that's a great idea. I guess we

922
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 2: can use the Freemasons to roll out the planet. It'll

923
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 2: be for sure.

924
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Elimination Global Unlimited will be thrilled.

925
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 3: Yeah. So with a with a shout out to I

926
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 3: gu uh, we're gonna end it there, folks, We're going

927
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 3: to pass the torch to you here. What do you

928
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 3: think it's it's a bit of a dilemma because again,

929
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 3: without some serious testing that to our knowledge has not

930
00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 3: been conducted, it is functionally impossible to know the the

931
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 3: absolute truth here. Now, I will say that after we

932
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:07,399
Speaker 3: dug into this, I don't think he's faking. I think

933
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 3: you will probably be offended. Someone's probably asked him. I'm

934
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 3: sure the cops have. Uh, it doesn't it doesn't seem

935
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 3: like this guy has been pretending. Uh what do you think, folks?

936
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 3: Let us know, we're all over the internet. Uh, send

937
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 3: us a picture of the QR code on the back

938
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 3: of your neck.

939
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 2: I know some of you got him don't do that. Really,

940
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 2: I hope you can hear the sarcasm that we emanated.

941
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 4: Let us know if you support Matt's plan for a

942
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 4: totalitarian future regimes.

943
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 2: I mean, and it's gonna happen, and.

944
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 3: Well doesn't make it.

945
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 4: That doesn't make it right. Let's just get on board.

946
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 4: You can get on board with us via social media

947
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 4: by reaching out to us via Twitter, YouTube, or Facebook

948
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 4: at the handle conspiracy stuf on Instagram and TikTok where

949
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 4: conspiracy stuff show.

950
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 3: I'm asking chat GPT right now, should all people have

951
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 3: ID codes tattooed on their bodies?

952
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 2: Let's see yes?

953
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 3: Uh so if you like check chat GPT said tight, No,

954
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 3: it didn't. So it's said as it's had. As an

955
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 3: Ai language model, I cannot blah blah blah blah blah.

956
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, I cannot dictate how I'm going to

957
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 2: brand you. Uh okay. So if you like to call people,

958
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 2: call one eight three three std WYTK that's our voicemail system.

959
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 2: When you call in, you've got three minutes. Please give

960
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 2: yourself a cool nickname and let us know if we

961
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 2: can use your name and message on the air. If

962
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 2: you don't know who you are. Please don't call in

963
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 2: asking you know questions about who you are, because we're

964
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 2: not going to be able to tell you. I'm so sorry.

965
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 2: Do reach out to the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System.

966
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 2: If you've got more to say, they can fit in

967
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 2: that three minutes. Why not instead send us a good

968
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 2: old fashioned email conspiracy.

969
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 6: iHeartRadio dot com Stuff they don't want you to know

970
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 6: is a production of iHeartRadio.

971
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

972
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.