WEBVTT - How Coronavirus Affects Prisons 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.439 It's Monday. I'm Oscar Emiras from the Daily Dive podcast 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.520 in Los Angeles, and this is your daily coronavirus update. 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:11.559 Coronavirus has been tearing through jails and prisons across the country. 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.520 A recent analysis by Reuters has found that there has 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.600 been an undercounting of COVID nineteen cases in the system, 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:19.959 and it's some state prisons are seeing infection rates of 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.040 up to six While there is a worry that inmates 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:25.400 could be getting ill in such close quarters, the other 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.319 concern is all of the corrections officers and workers that 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:30.960 could also be infected and then spread the virus throughout 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.360 their communities. Research shows that the majority of those infected 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:39.280 have been asymptomatic. Linda So, reporter for Reuters, joins us 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.360 for how coronavirus is spreading in jails and prison Thanks 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:47.800 for joining us, Linda, I wanted to talk about coronavirus 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:51.080 and what's going on in US jails and prisons. We've 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.320 been hearing a lot about it. A lot of times. 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:55.680 These people are forgotten in a lot of this. Some 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.440 people don't care because they might be criminals, etcetera, etcetera. 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.640 But up until now, what we had been hearing is 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:04.959 that prisons and jails are fertile ground for coronavirus to spread. 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.080 There was even a string of headlines where there was 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:12.520 a lot of inmates being released because of COVID nineteen worries. 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.280 But their ed routers, you guys took a deep look 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.080 into a lot of different aspects of the jail in 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.240 prison system and are just finding out that there is 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.400 a lot more people that are getting infected in there 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.640 than official numbers would really state. So Linda tell us 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:28.280 a little bit about the research you guys did and 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:32.200 some of the findings. So, the CDC had conducted a 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.560 survey where they reached out to all the health departments 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:39.400 nationwide to get numbers on the number of inspected inmates 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.640 throughout all the correctional facilities in the US, and they 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.600 had thirty seven of those agencies respond and reported just 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:50.240 under five thousand inmate cases. What we did at Gorders 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:55.040 is we conducted a far smaller survey and found well 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:59.040 over three times that number, about seventeen thousand, three hundred cases. 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.760 So it was illuminating in the way that a lot 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.680 of these places, because many jails in the US don't 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.560 make their numbers public, they're not known. So what we 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.560 found in this far smaller survey is there are a 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.840 lot of cases that are going unreported, very similar in 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:18.240 the way we've been following numbers for the general population, 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:20.640 you know, outside of these prisons and jails. A lot 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:22.400 of it has to do with testing and testing as 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:25.480 many people as possible, and a lot of jails weren't 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.880 really doing that. First off, tests were hard to come 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.840 by for the jail population, but secondly, they would be 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.320 testing people that only had symptoms when a lot of 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:36.760 people are pushing for everybody in these systems to be tested. 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:39.240 So as part of this survey, we looked into that 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:43.400 and what we found was many jails continue to only 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.280 test their inmates if they are showing symptoms. A lot 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:51.640 of we documented ten state prison systems that have wide 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.560 and testing, and they are conducting a form of mass 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.480 testing where they're testing all their inmates even if they 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.240 aren't showing symptoms. And so for those facilities that are 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:05.680 mass testing, there were infection rates at about sixty So 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.000 it just goes to show that because many of these 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.440 jails aren't testing all of their inmates, they're only testing 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.720 if you're showing certain symptoms. There's a drastic undercount. Have 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.320 you got any response from the CDC as far as 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.959 to the discrepancy and these numbers. So the CDC is 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:25.600 part of their report, did acknowledge that only thirty seven 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:29.160 of those agencies that they surveyed responded, So it was 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.360 based on those numbers. Let's talk a little bit more 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:36.200 about what's going on at these facilities. The US has 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.800 more people behind bars in any other nation. I think 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.320 as of two thousand eighteen, the numbers were two point 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:46.120 two million, And there's a difference between jails and prisons 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.400 and how the possible spread of coronavirus could work out there. 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:51.600 Tell us a little bit about that. So when you 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:55.920 think about the spread of coronavirus within these facilities, it 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.119 doesn't just affect the inmates. First of all, jails are 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.720 generally paces where inmates go for a short period of 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:06.240 time there is either awaiting arrest or their shirts serving 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.960 short sentences, So there's a constant turn of inmates going 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.680 in and out, and so they become pathways of spreading 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:15.920 this virus. If they're released from the jail and go 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.320 back into the community, they become pathways to spread it 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.000 in the community, and it's not just the inmates who 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:24.400 are of concern here. What we also found is that 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:28.440 there are thousands of workers, correctional officers who are working 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:32.360 in these facilities, medical staff who day in and day out, 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:34.840 they report to work, go to jail. At the end 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:36.760 of the day, they leave, and they can carry it 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.600 back to the community. So this isn't only a concern 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:41.919 for the inmates in the jail, but it is for 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.000 the greater population because of the risk that these people 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.600 who are moving in and out of these facilities can 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:51.360 become vestors or pathways, so to speak. We mentioned testing 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.920 a little bit. How has testing been going for the 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:59.039 correctional workers. We highlighted one jail in our story, Wayne 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:03.440 County Jail in Detroit, Michigan, and the chief of jails 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.359 there had expressed to us that when this pandemic first 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:11.200 began in March, the facility had a hard time. It 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.360 was very challenging to get their hands on tests and 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.839 so for their correctional officers, they weren't able to provide 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.960 widespread testing. If you recalled, in the early phases of 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.960 this pandemic, it was a struggle for anyone to get tests. 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:28.360 You had to show specific symptoms, and if you weren't 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.560 showing those specific symptoms, you were denied testing. And that 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.160 was the case that Wayne County, which ended up a 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:38.840 day lost to medical workers and a commander and a deputy. 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.960 And so the chief of jails there told us that 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.960 part of the challenge was because they couldn't provide testing 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:49.640 for their death members, it was very hard to get 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.760 a handle on the spread of the virus. Yeah, and 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:54.960 that's such a critical part because, as you mentioned earlier, 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:57.040 those are the people that are going home at the 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.200 end of the day and could be getting it out 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.640 into the community, you know, when they're working all day 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.360 in such close quarters with everybody then they go home, 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:06.920 then those are the people that are spreading it around. So, yeah, 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.080 that widespread testing for the workers is critical. And then 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.000 another aspect of this whole thing with the jail and 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:16.480 prison system. Obviously I mentioned the headlines and so many 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:20.200 inmates being released from the systems to help reduce the 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.360 overcrowding there because there was a lot of times where 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.680 people were still in you know, three people to us sell, etcetera. 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:27.800 Things like that. So tell us a little bit about that, 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.839 about the release of all these inmates. So there were 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:35.400 calls to release inmates, those who perhaps are older and 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:39.039 more vulnerable, and those with underlying conditions. But what we 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:42.960 found in reporting our story is that these correctional facilities, 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.880 not all of them had standard procedures for releasing inmates. So, 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.760 for instance, we highlight Well County Jail in Colorado in 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.040 our stories where there were several inmates, one who ended 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.320 up dying. He had COVID nineteens. He left the jail 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.400 and he died. However, from what we found, there was 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.520 no standard procedure in ensuring that when he was released, 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:07.279 he was not given any medical care. He came into 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:11.000 contact with other people. So that's another risk when you 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.400 think about these inmates who are leaving these facilities, they 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:17.920 too could become a vector or a pathway of spreading 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:20.760 it because not all jails have a standard procedure to 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:24.240 medically screen these inmates as they're leaving. I know there 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.160 was a lot of fur about it. There's a lot 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.040 of victims rights groups that were also really mad that 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:31.840 some of these inmates were being released and people weren't 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.840 getting notified, So I know that was another big angle 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.120 to all of this. There have been some victims rights 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:42.080 groups who have expressed their concerns that not all crime 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.320 victims were being notified when these inmates were being let out. 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.840 Question about some other findings that possibly could have come out. 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:52.640 Were you finding that some of these inmates were either 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.920 displaying asymptomatically or were they getting very sick and ill 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.480 and requiring hospitalizations? Did any of that come out in 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.360 your research? We did focus on ten state prison systems 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:08.240 who are conducting mass testing, and interestingly, we found that 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:12.720 a high percentage of these inmates were asymptomatic. So in 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:17.240 Michigan States, their correctional facility decided to mass test at 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.200 many of their facilities because they really thought, we couldn't 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.720 get a handle on this disease if we don't know 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.960 who has it, So they began the mass testing, which 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:30.200 revealed a high rate of asymptomatic inmates. And the concern was, 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:34.560 for many of these correctional facilities, it's hard to contain 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.480 the spread if you really don't know who has it, 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.640 So that really was a big factor in their decision 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.479 to go ahead with mass testing in many of their facilities. 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.199 And as a result of all of this, there's more 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.800 than one lawsuits nationwide, and a lot of them are 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:52.400 class action lawsuits. You know, they're still asking for more 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:56.000 mass releases of inmates or other measures to reduce overcrowding 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.920 and the infection risks in these jails. Those lawsuits continue, 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.400 the fight continues, and again there's a lot of push 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.079 and pull. Some of those victims rights groups like we 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.040 mentioned before, are fighting against it because they believe that 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.040 there's a risk if you release these inmates, but a 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.280 lot of other organizations like the a c. L You, 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:17.320 they're really fighting for the release because many of these 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:21.520 inmates are medically vulnerable, or again the older population who 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:23.719 are more at risks. And what kind of reaction have 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.560 you gotten so far to this special report that you 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.240 guys did. Just from reading, I can see that the 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.560 prison officials obviously feel like they could be at wits end. 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.040 Maybe you know, they don't know exactly what's happening. They're 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:36.920 trying to get a handle on the testing, and they're 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:40.000 fearful for themselves and for their workers and even the inmates. 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.000 But what other kind of reactions have you gotten to this. 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.560 One of the important things that have come out from 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.560 this is the fact that the outbreak in these jails 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:52.080 doesn't just affect the people who are held behind bars. 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.319 But again it's those inmates who may be leaving the jails, 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.400 and the medical workers and the correctional officers who are 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.599 leaving every day who can carry it back out to 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.000 this community. I suggest everybody go out and read the 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.120 report by Linda and they're at Reuter's. There's a lot 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:10.160 of pretty stark numbers with regards to what's going on 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:15.160 in the jail and prison population. Linda, so reporter at Reuter's, 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:20.520 thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. I'm 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.160 Oscar Ramirez and this has been your daily coronavirus update. 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:25.920 Don't forget that. For today's big news stories, you can 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.319 check me out on the Daily Dive podcast every Monday 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:30.960 through Friday. So follow us on I Heart Radio or 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:32.360 wherever you get your podcast.