1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: And you're here. Thanks for choosing the iHeartRadio and Coast 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: to Ghost Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Your quest for 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 1: podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained ends here. 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: They invite you to enjoy all our shows we have 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: on this network, and right now, let's start with Chase 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: of the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain. 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 2: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: to Coast, am employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 2: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 2: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi. 13 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 2: I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: on a journey to prove the existence of life after death. 15 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: On each opp episode will discuss the reasons we now 16 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 2: know that our loved ones have survived physical death and 17 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: so will we. Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife Today, 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 2: we have an incredible opportunity to take a deep dive 19 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: into one of the most powerful forms of evidence for 20 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 2: survival of consciousness. The near death experience. We're going to 21 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 2: explore the history, the science, and the profound spiritual implications 22 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 2: of NDS with a true pioneer, a man who was 23 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: there at the very beginning of this field of study, 24 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 2: doctor Bruce Grayson. But first, a quick story from a listener. 25 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 2: Tracy logged in a few minutes early to our Sunday 26 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 2: gathering to ask a question. She wanted to know my 27 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: thoughts whether this could be a normal behavior of a bird, 28 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: or if it could be a sign from her son. 29 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 2: She said her window was open and a bird flew 30 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 2: in and landed and stayed on her Sondeun's photograph. Then 31 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: she said, for approximately the last six weeks, the bird 32 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: has come to her window every day and just stays 33 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: and looks in. I know what my gut instinct is 34 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: telling me, But what is your gut instinct telling you. 35 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: I want to also share a wonderful piece of afterlife. 36 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: News entertainer Howie Mandell was recently interviewed by Graham Benzinger, 37 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 2: where he explained that he had never believed in the 38 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: afterlife until a remarkable encounter happened after his father passed away. 39 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 2: Someone gave Howie a book also called We Don't Die 40 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 2: by medium George Anderson, not as a believer, but as 41 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 2: an entrepreneur. Howie actually optioned the rights to the book, 42 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: hoping to develop it into a TV series. During a 43 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: business dinner with the medium, Howie, who had just been 44 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: told privately by his own doctor to stop eating bread, 45 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 2: reached for a piece of bread from the bread basket. 46 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: George Anderson immediately stopped him and said, your father is 47 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 2: mad at you. You were told by your doctor not 48 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: to eat bread. How He was stunned, explaining that there 49 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: was no possible way for the medium to have known 50 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 2: about that doctor's visit. He said, it was that one 51 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 2: impossible to know detail that turned him from a skeptic 52 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: to a believer and speaking of evidence. For those of 53 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: you who may not be familiar with his work, Doctor 54 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: Bruce Grayson is one of the most respected and influential 55 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 2: near death experience researchers in the world. He is the 56 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 2: Professor of Psychiatry and Director of the Division of Perceptual 57 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: Studies at the University of Virginia Health System. He also 58 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: serves as the longtime editor of the Journal of Near 59 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: Death Studies. Recently, doctor Grayson was asked to give the 60 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 2: closing keynote speech at the fiftieth anniversary Conference for Ions, 61 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: the International Association for Near Death Studies. It was a 62 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 2: monumental occasion, celebrating half a century of research into the 63 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 2: nd phenomena. I watched the conference of virtually If you're interested, 64 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 2: you can still watch the videos just click conference link 65 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 2: at IMS dot org. I want to talk to you 66 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 2: today about his incredible talk, and I found a comprehensive 67 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 2: academic paper he wrote titled Near Death Experiences and Spirituality. 68 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: I'll use both the paper and his speech at the 69 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 2: conference for our episode today. So I think we know 70 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: the answer to this. But what exactly is a near 71 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 2: death experience? Doctor Grayson quotes the man who coined the term, 72 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: of course, that's doctor Raymond Moody, defining them as profound 73 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: spiritual events that happen uninvited to some individuals at the 74 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 2: point of death. These are not dreams or simple hallucinations. 75 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: They are structured, often hyper realistic experiences that can all 76 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 2: so include a sense of separating from our physical body, 77 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: encountering a mystical or divine presence, and even meeting with 78 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 2: religious figures or deceased loved ones. Once thought to be 79 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: extremely rare. NDEs are now estimated to occur to about 80 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: one third of all people who have had a close 81 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 2: brush with death. That means millions upon millions of people 82 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 2: worldwide have had this experience. And while the term itself 83 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: is modern, the experience is not. Doctor Grayson's paper points 84 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: out that detailed accounts of similar events can be found 85 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: in the historical writings and folklore of nearly every culture 86 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 2: on earth. The modern investigation into this ancient mystery began 87 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 2: with one curious student that was Raymond Moody. In the 88 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, Moody was a university student studying Greek philosophy. 89 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 2: He happened to hear a lecture from a psychiatrist who 90 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: described his own profound experience while his heart had stopped. 91 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 2: Moody was floored. He immediately recognized that the doctor's story 92 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: was strikingly similar to a two thousand year old case 93 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 2: he had read about in Greek philosophers. That spark of 94 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: recognition changed everything. Later, when Moody went to medical school, 95 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 2: he began to gently and respectfully ask his patients if 96 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 2: they had experienced anything unusual when they had been close 97 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: to death. The stories started pouring in. He quickly collected 98 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty first hand accounts, which he compiled 99 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: into his world changing nineteen seventy five book called Life 100 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: After Life. It was this book that he gave the 101 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 2: phenomena its name, The Near Death Experience. Doctor Grayson emphasized 102 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 2: the book's impact, saying it brought near death experiences into 103 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 2: the public eye for the very first time. Suddenly, researchers, 104 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 2: doctors and clinicians from all over the world who had 105 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: been quietly encountering these stories in their own practices but 106 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 2: no one to talk to about them, they realized they 107 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 2: weren't alone. An informal conference was organized at the University 108 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: of Virginia to bring these pioneers together, and from that 109 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: first gathering, the International Association for Near Death Studies or 110 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: IONS was born. Doctor Grayson paints a wonderful picture of 111 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: those early days. He said, the group held the yearly 112 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 2: meetings at Raymond Moody's farm in a tiny, remote Virginia village, 113 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: and from that humble beginning flowed into this international association. 114 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: So the task of actually building IONS fell into the 115 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 2: hands of four brilliant young researchers who were in Doctor 116 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: Grayson's words, too naive to know what they were getting 117 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 2: themselves into. That founding group included psychologist Can Ring, sociologist 118 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 2: John Audette, and cardiologist doctor Michael Sabem. Their original goal 119 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,239 Speaker 2: was simple to create a network where they could support 120 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: each other and give each other advice, because at the 121 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 2: time they were all feeling very alone in their institutions 122 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: where no one supported them. So what were these researchers 123 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: actually studying. In his book, Moody identified fifteen elements that 124 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: seemed to recur in the one hundred and fifty reports 125 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 2: he collected. These included things like senses beyond words, hearing 126 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 2: unusual noises or beautiful music, seeing a tunnel, having an 127 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,719 Speaker 2: out of body experience, meeting spiritual beings or deceased relatives, 128 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: encountering a brilliant, white, loving light, and having a panoramic 129 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 2: life review yes, where your entire life flashes before your eyes. 130 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: Moody was careful to point out that no two experiences 131 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: were exactly the same, and no single experience included all 132 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 2: fifteen elements. To bring more structure to this, doctor Grayson 133 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 2: and other researchers eventually grouped the most common features into 134 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 2: four main components cognitive, effective, paranormal, and transcendental. I want 135 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 2: to focus on that first component, cognitive features, because they 136 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 2: directly challenge the idea that the mind is simply a 137 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 2: product of the brain. The cognitive features of an NDE 138 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,239 Speaker 2: are those that reflect changes in a person's thought processes. 139 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 2: People report that their sense of time becomes completely distorted, 140 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 2: either slowing down to a crawl or ceasing to exist altogether. 141 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: Their thoughts often accelerate to an incredible speed, yet remain 142 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 2: perfectly clear and logical. Many report a sudden sense of 143 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: revelation or understanding, as if they're being given access to 144 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 2: all universal knowledge. And of course there's the life review, 145 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 2: where a person reexperiences their life's events. To make this concrete, 146 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: Doctor Grayson shares a powerful example from a twenty one 147 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 2: year old woman who had an MDE during a bicycle accident. 148 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: She said, I was riding my bike and failed to 149 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 2: see a car coming towards me until I realized it 150 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: would hit me, regardless of any maneuver I might make. Now, 151 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 2: stop and think about that for a minute. In a 152 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: split second crisis, you would expect panic, confusion, and fear, 153 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 2: But that's not what happened. That realization seemed to take 154 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 2: forever as it slowed way down, and I consciously decided 155 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 2: to let go of the handlebars, cover my head with 156 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: my hands and scream. Here we see that classic cognitive feature, 157 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: the distortion of time. A fraction of a second felt 158 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 2: like forever, giving her the mental space to make calm, 159 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 2: conscious decisions in the midst of a life threatening event. 160 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 2: Then the most remarkable part happens. She says, during the 161 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 2: next few seconds or fractions thereof, while the car hit 162 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 2: my thigh and the bike, I was unaware of any 163 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 2: bodily sensations, but rather saw my life flashed before me 164 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 2: in a series of typical scenes. I felt very peaceful, 165 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 2: and the thought, well, if I die, that's all right. 166 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 2: I've had a good life came very clearly into my mind. 167 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: I felt apart from my body at this time. This 168 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 2: single account perfectly illustrates these cognitive features. She experienced the 169 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 2: life review, accelerated yet clear thought processes, a feeling of 170 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: peace instead of panic, and even a sense of being 171 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 2: detached from her physical body. And this happened while her 172 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 2: brain was very likely in a state of shock and trauma. 173 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 2: This is why from the very beginning, NDEs presented a 174 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 2: profound challenge to mainstream science in the nineteen seventies. As 175 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 2: doctor Grayson explained, most clinicians were deeply skeptical. They dismissed 176 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 2: these rich, structured accounts as meaningless hallucinations, and they thought 177 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 2: the researchers studying them were simply being gullible. Because the 178 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 2: early accounts were so overwhelmingly blissful and peaceful. The prevailing 179 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 2: skeptical view was this had to be some kind of 180 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 2: psychological defense mechanism, our minds probably trying to create a 181 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: shield from the terror of complete annihilation. The debunkers insisted 182 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 2: that the actual moment of death must be terrifying, and 183 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 2: that any blissful memory is a fantasy created later, because, 184 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 2: as doctor Grayson puts their argument, you can't tolerate the terror. 185 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 2: This became the first great question for NDE researchers to answer, 186 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 2: Are these experiences real or are they just comforting stories. 187 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 2: The answer would require rigorous scientific investigation, and that's exactly 188 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 2: where we're going to pick up. Right after the break, 189 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. You're listening to Shades of the 190 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast, a paranormal 191 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 2: podcast network. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm 192 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: Sandra Champlain and we're looking at the work and research 193 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 2: of one of the four International Association for Near Death 194 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 2: Studies founders, his name doctor Bruce Grayson. Before the break, 195 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 2: we journeyed back to the dawn of the near death 196 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: experience stories and establish what a near death experience is. 197 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 2: We looked at the cognitive features, the incredible changes in 198 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 2: thought and perception through the eyes of a young woman 199 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: in a bicycle accident, and we left off with the 200 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:12,199 Speaker 2: critical question that faced those early researchers. Are these profound experiences, real, 201 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 2: stable memories, or are they, as the skeptics claimed, just 202 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 2: comforting hallucinations our minds create to protect us from the 203 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 2: terror of death. This is where the story turns from 204 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 2: collecting accounts to rigorous scientific investigation. The first major challenge 205 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: to the hallucination theory came not from psychologists or philosophers, 206 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 2: but from pioneering cardiologists doctors on the front lines of 207 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 2: life and death, men like doctor Michael Sabem in the 208 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 2: United States, doctor Samparnia in the United Kingdom, and doctor 209 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 2: Pim Van Lommel in the Netherlands began to do something revolutionary. 210 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 2: They started systematically inter thanking their patients immediately after they 211 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 2: were resuscitated from cardiac arrest. What they discovered was a 212 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: game changer. These patients, sometimes just moments after their hearts 213 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 2: were restarted, would describe these incredibly blissful, peaceful, and life 214 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 2: altering experiences. This finding directly contradicted the theory that the 215 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: memory of a terrifying event gets embellished into something pleasant 216 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: over time. The blissful nature of the experience was there 217 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 2: from the very first moment the person could speak. As 218 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 2: doctor Grayson puts it so clearly in his talk, It's 219 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 2: not a retroactive elaboration, it's the way it really was 220 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: for them. This brings us to the second major component 221 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 2: of NDEs that doctor Grayson outlines in his research. The 222 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 2: affective features refer to the profound changes in a person's 223 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 2: emotional state during the experience. It's what gives the nd 224 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: its incredible power. These features include an overwhelming sense of 225 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 2: peace and well being, feelings of intense joy, a sense 226 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 2: of cosmic unity or oneness with universe, and most famously, 227 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 2: an encounter with a brilliant light that seems to radiate pure, 228 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 2: unconditional love. To truly understand this, I want to share 229 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 2: another story. Doctor Grayson provides in his academic writing. This 230 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 2: is the experience of a thirty one year old woman 231 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 2: during open heart surgery. She describes finding herself in a 232 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 2: dark space, but instead of fear, she felt something else entirely. 233 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 2: She says, I wasn't frightened. I had no pain, and 234 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: I think I was wondering, why aren't I afraid? But 235 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 2: I wasn't afraid. It felt neutral. I felt this feeling 236 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 2: of love. It was like, all of a sudden, I 237 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 2: could feel this whole feeling of love and joy, and 238 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 2: it was all around me. Then her attention was drawn 239 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 2: to the light. She continues, My eyes were automatically drawn 240 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 2: to the side, and I saw this circle of light 241 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 2: off in the distance. I'll never forget it. And I 242 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,959 Speaker 2: could feel this love coming from that light. It was 243 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 2: all around me. It wasn't a beam, it was just 244 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: the feeling of it coming from that light. It was 245 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 2: so beautiful. I could never explain it in a million years. 246 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 2: And I went towards that light with my arms extended. 247 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 2: I just wanted to embrace it. Even the powerful love 248 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 2: she felt for her children on earth paled in comparison 249 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 2: to this divine feeling. She explains the conflict she felt 250 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 2: about returning. Don't you think you should go back and 251 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 2: take care of your children? I remember I said, no, 252 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 2: I love my children and I love them up there. 253 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 2: But it was a different kind of love. This is 254 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 2: the hardest part for me to explain. It's a true, 255 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: pure love, free of earthly worries, an absolute pure love. 256 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 2: This is a kind of profound emotional experience that skeptics 257 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 2: were trying to explain away. So they proposed a variety 258 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 2: of physiological and psychological models. Let's look at those theories 259 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 2: and see how the science has held up. The most 260 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 2: common theory you'll hear is that NDEs are caused by 261 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 2: a lack of oxygen to the brain or anoxia. On 262 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 2: the surface, it seems plausible, but doctor Grayson points out 263 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 2: a fatal flaw in this theory. Medical research shows that 264 00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 2: oxygen deprivation doesn't produce peaceful, structured, life altering experiences. It 265 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 2: typically produces idiosyncratic, frightening, and often bizarre hallucinations. It leads 266 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 2: to agitation and belligerence, the complete opposite of the calm 267 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 2: and peaceful states reported in MDes. Actual studies of patients 268 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 2: near death found that those who had NDEs did not 269 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 2: have lower oxygen levels than those who had a close 270 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 2: call with death but did not have an MD, so 271 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 2: the oxygen theory simply doesn't fit the facts. The next 272 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 2: theory is that NDEs are caused by medications given to 273 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 2: dying patients, like morphine or anesthetics. Again, this seems plausible 274 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 2: until you look at the data. Multiple comparative studies have 275 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 2: found that patients who receive medications in the hospital well 276 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 2: actually report fewer NDEs than patients who receive no medication 277 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 2: at all. Other scientists have speculated about various brain chemicals 278 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 2: like endorphins, or specific locations in the brain like the 279 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 2: temporal lobe, being responsible, but as doctor Grayson clarifies, there 280 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 2: is little to no empirical evidence to support these as 281 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 2: a cause, and even if certain brain pathways are active, 282 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 2: he makes a crucial distinction. Those pathways might simply be 283 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 2: how the brain interprets or expresses the experience, not what 284 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 2: creates it in the first place. It's like saying that 285 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 2: because your TV's pixels light up to show a movie, 286 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 2: the TV must be creating the movie itself, which we 287 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 2: know isn't true. It's just receiving a signal. When the 288 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 2: physiological models failed, step Dick's turn to psychological explanations. The 289 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 2: biggest one is the idea of expectation or wishful thinking. 290 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 2: The theory goes that people's religious and cultural beliefs preprogram 291 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 2: them to see what they expect to see after death. 292 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 2: The psychologist Kenneth Ring perfectly summarized this hypothesis as believing 293 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 2: is seeing, But decades of research have shown that this 294 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 2: isn't the case. First, young children who are too young 295 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 2: to have fully formed expectations about death report the same 296 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 2: core ND features as adults. Second, cross cultural studies show 297 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 2: that while the interpretation might have a cultural flavor. For instance, 298 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 2: a Christian might see Jesus a Buddhist might see the Buddha, 299 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 2: the core elements of the experience, like the out of 300 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 2: body journey, the tunnel, the being of light, are remarkably 301 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 2: consistent across the globe. Finally, and most importantly, studies have 302 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 2: conclusively found no link between a person's prior religiousness and 303 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 2: their likelihood of having an ND. Self professed atheists are 304 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 2: just as likely to have one as devout ministers, so 305 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 2: belief is not a prerequisite. If NDEs aren't caused by 306 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 2: a lack of oxygen or drugs, or brain chemistry or 307 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 2: psychological expectation, we are left with the stunning possibility that 308 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 2: they are exactly what they appear to be a real experience. 309 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 2: To put the final nail in the coffin of the 310 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 2: embellished memory theory, doctor Grayson and his team conducted a 311 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 2: brilliant study. He and his colleagues went back to their 312 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,239 Speaker 2: archives from the early nineteen eighties. They tracked down the 313 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 2: same people they had interviewed decades ago and asked them 314 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 2: to describe their NDEs again. They had them fill out 315 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:19,239 Speaker 2: the very same scientific questionnaire, the ND scale, that they 316 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 2: had filled out thirty to forty years prior. Doctor Grayson 317 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: noted that not a single person even remembered taking the 318 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 2: questionnaire the first time. The results were astonishing. Back in 319 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties, the average score on the sixteen point 320 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 2: ND scale was fourteen point six. When the same people 321 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 2: took the test again describing the same event nearly forty 322 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 2: years later, the average score was fourteen point three. They 323 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 2: were statistically almost identical the passage of decades had no 324 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 2: impact on the content or the intensity of the reported experience. 325 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 2: This was the definitive proof the blissful, peaceful, and structured 326 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 2: accounts were not fantasies that grew more and more pleasant 327 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 2: over time. They were stable, reliable, and powerful memories. With 328 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 2: this finding, doctor Grayson could confidently state accounts are not embellished, 329 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 2: which means when you hear accounts of an event that 330 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 2: took place forty years ago, you can trust it. We 331 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 2: can say now with scientific confidence that near death experiences 332 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 2: are real. They are not a symptom of a dying brain, 333 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 2: but a consistent, powerful, and cross cultural human experience. This 334 00:24:55,080 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 2: leads us to the next, even more profound question. Experiences 335 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,719 Speaker 2: are real, What is their purpose? What is their impact? 336 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: How are people changed by this glimpse into the world beyond? 337 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 2: And that's precisely what we're going to explore when we 338 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 2: get back. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on 339 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 340 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain. 341 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 2: In our last segment, we walk through the rigorous science 342 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 2: that has firmly established the near death experience as a real, 343 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 2: stable memory that cannot be explained any other way by 344 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 2: conventional physiological or psychological theories. We now know that NDEs 345 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 2: are not hallucinations caused by a lack of oxygen, they're 346 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 2: not side effects of medication, and they are not products 347 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 2: of wishful thinking or religious expectation. Near death experiences are 348 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 2: a genuine human experience. So this brings us to the 349 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 2: next and perhaps the most important question. If these experiences 350 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 2: are real, what is their impact? What happens to a 351 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 2: person who touches the world beyond and then comes back. 352 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 2: The answer is that they are often changed in the 353 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 2: most profound ways imaginable. The after effects of a near 354 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 2: death experience are so powerful and consistent that doctor Bruce 355 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 2: Grayson and his colleague say they meet the clinical definition 356 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 2: of a spiritual transformation, which is described as a dramatic 357 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:17,199 Speaker 2: change in a person's beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors that occur 358 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 2: over a relatively short period of time. This is not 359 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 2: a new discovery. Doctor Grayson's research points to a fascinating 360 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 2: historical account from eighteen sixty five by a British surgeon 361 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 2: named Sir Benjamin Brodie. He wrote about a sailor who 362 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 2: was rescued from a near drowning. Upon his recovery, the 363 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 2: sailor proclaimed that he had been to heaven and complained 364 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 2: bitterly about being brought back to life. Before this incident, 365 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 2: this sailor had been regarded as a worthless fellow, but 366 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 2: after his rescue, his entire moral character was transformed completely, 367 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 2: and he became one of the best behaved and most 368 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 2: respected sailors on that ship. This story from over one 369 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty years ago perfectly captures the transformative power 370 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 2: that researchers are now studying scientifically. To understand how this 371 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 2: transformation begins, we need to look at the third major 372 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 2: component of the near death experience that doctor Grayson identifies 373 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 2: called the paranormal features. This category includes apparent psychic phenomena 374 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 2: that occur during the experience. This can mean having extraordinarily 375 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 2: vivid physical sensations, witnessing future events, or the most well known, 376 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 2: the sense of being out of the physical body. This 377 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 2: out of body experience, also known as an OBE, is 378 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,719 Speaker 2: one of the most compelling aspects of the near death experience. 379 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 2: Doctor Grayson shares a story of a twenty six year 380 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 2: old woman who had a pulmonary embolism, a life threatening 381 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 2: a blood clot in her lungs. She described what happened next. 382 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 2: The real me, the soul, the spirit or whatever, drifted 383 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 2: out of the body and hovered near the ceiling. I 384 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 2: viewed the activity in the room from this vantage point. 385 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 2: The hospital room was to my right and below me. 386 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 2: It confused me that the doctors and the nurses were 387 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 2: so concerned about the body they had lifted to the bed. 388 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 2: I looked down at my body, and it meant nothing 389 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 2: to me. I tried to tell them I was not 390 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 2: in the body. Obviously, they didn't hear me. Think about 391 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,719 Speaker 2: that for a moment. This woman is calm, observant, and 392 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 2: feels a complete detachment from the physical form that the 393 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 2: medical team is desperately trying to save. Her account continues 394 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 2: with another common paranormal feature. One of the most outstanding 395 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 2: things about this experience is that my hearing became extremely acute. 396 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 2: She said, I heard many things about the gravity of 397 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 2: my situation, some of these things from the nurses station 398 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 2: many yards away. This experience is existing consciously outside of 399 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 2: the physical body, often with verifiable, accurate perceptions which is 400 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 2: a cornerstone of the transformation that follows. When you know 401 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 2: with a certainty that goes beyond belief that you are 402 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 2: more than your body, well, that changes everything. The research 403 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 2: has identified a consistent pattern of after effects that are deep, profound, 404 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 2: and lasting for many years. Doctor Grayson, doctor Kenneth Ring, 405 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 2: and other pioneers have meticulously documented these changes. They can 406 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 2: be grouped into several key areas. First are the changes 407 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,719 Speaker 2: in a person's sense of self. The most widely reported 408 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 2: after effect is the complete and total loss of the 409 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 2: fear of dying or the fear of death. Doctor Grayson 410 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 2: notes that this is a critical distinction. People who have 411 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 2: had a close brush with death but don't have a 412 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 2: near death experience often come back with more anxiety about death, 413 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 2: but near death experiencers while they return with a calm 414 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 2: certainty that death is not the end, but just a transition. 415 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 2: This is accompanied by a strengthened an often absolute belief 416 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 2: in the after life life. One study mentioned in doctor 417 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 2: Grayson's paper found that definite belief in an afterlife skyrocketed 418 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 2: from twenty two percent before the near death experience to 419 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 2: ninety two percent after this newfound perspective gives their life 420 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 2: a brand new sense of purpose or mission. In that 421 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 2: same study, seventy three percent of experiencers reported that the 422 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 2: ND led them to discover their life's purpose. Second, there 423 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 2: are profound changes in their relationships and values. They consistently 424 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 2: report an increased sense of love and compassion for others, 425 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 2: and a decreased interest in personal status, material possessions, and fame. 426 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 2: Life is no longer about what you can acquire, but 427 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 2: about what you can do give. This represents a fundamental 428 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 2: shift from what researchers call an ego centered consciousness to 429 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 2: an other centered consciousness. The third area is a change 430 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 2: in their attitude toward life itself. Experiencers return with a 431 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 2: much greater appreciation for life, a renewed sense of purpose, 432 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 2: and more confidence and flexibility in coping with life's daily challenges. 433 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 2: But perhaps the most fascinating transformation is in the area 434 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 2: of spirituality. Experiencers almost universally describe themselves as becoming more spiritual, 435 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 2: but interestingly enough, not necessarily more religious. Doctor Grayson's work 436 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 2: highlights a remarkable study by sociologist Sherry Sutherland and Australia. 437 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 2: She found that before their ends ease, twenty four percent 438 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:09,439 Speaker 2: of her subjects identified as religious. After their experiences, that 439 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 2: number plummeted to just six percent. In start. Contrast, the 440 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 2: number of people who describe themselves as spiritual soared from 441 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:26,720 Speaker 2: just sixteen percent before the NDE two seventy six percent after. 442 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 2: They don't lose their connection to the divine. In fact, 443 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 2: it becomes the central focus of their lives. What they 444 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 2: tend to move away from is the dogma and exclusivity 445 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 2: of organized religion. They often come back with a powerful 446 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 2: conviction that all religions are valid paths to the same truth. 447 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 2: As doctor Kenneth Ring found, they tend to object to 448 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 2: the smug quality of some religious groups, not to the 449 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 2: base of worship or connection to God itself. Doctor Grayson 450 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 2: wants us to understand that these are not subtle, gentle 451 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 2: shifts in perspective. He emphasizes that the changes are often 452 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 2: so dramatic and disruptive that people cannot go back to 453 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 2: the same job, cannot go back to their same lifestyle. 454 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 2: Sometimes relationships and even marriages fall apart unless their loved 455 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 2: ones can adapt to what seems like a completely different person. 456 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 2: A high powered materialistic executive might come back with a 457 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 2: burning desire to work with the homeless. A cynical and 458 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 2: withdrawn person might become radically open and loving. Then this 459 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 2: raises a crucial question. Do these incredible changes last or 460 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 2: do they fade over time like a New Year's resolution. 461 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 2: To answer this, we go back to the study they 462 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,800 Speaker 2: did of the people from the nineteen eighties that filled 463 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 2: out a form and then they revisited them forty years later. 464 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:12,439 Speaker 2: This questionnaire was called Life Changes Inventory. The results were 465 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 2: just as definitive as the study on their near death 466 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:22,359 Speaker 2: experience memories themselves. The scores measuring things like their appreciation 467 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:27,359 Speaker 2: for life, their spirituality, their concern for others, and their 468 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 2: self acceptance were basically unchanged over the forty years. The transformation, 469 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 2: my friends was permanent. This led doctor Grayson to a 470 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 2: powerful conclusion the after effects, just like the near death 471 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 2: experience itself, does not change over time. So we are 472 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 2: left with a scientifically validated phenomena that permanently transforms people 473 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 2: in a positive and spiritual direction. It instills a love 474 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 2: for others, a purpose for living, and removes completely the 475 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 2: fear of death. What kind of experience could possibly do that? 476 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 2: How can a brief event that happens when the brain 477 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:21,720 Speaker 2: is compromised lead to the most meaningful and integrated state 478 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 2: of a person's life. Well, this brings us to the 479 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 2: ultimate question of what a near death experience truly is 480 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 2: and what it tells us about the nature of consciousness itself. 481 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 2: We'll explore that when we come back. You're listening to 482 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 2: Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast, 483 00:37:46,360 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 2: a m paranormal podcast network. Welcome back to Shades of 484 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 2: the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain. Over the past five years 485 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 2: of the show together and the hundreds of episodes, we've 486 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 2: heard a lot of near death experiences, but it was 487 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 2: important for me today to share the scientific research from 488 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 2: an authority so that you are armed with information. If 489 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 2: anyone mentions negatively that near death experience might just be 490 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 2: a natural shutting down of the brain, etc. You have 491 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 2: the choice to let them know the truth or not. 492 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 2: I always say we don't push this on anyone, but 493 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 2: if people are open, we can certainly tell them the 494 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 2: scientific information. Over the last three segments so far, we 495 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 2: followed the incredible fifty year journey of near death research. 496 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 2: This leaves us standing before the biggest question of all 497 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 2: If these experiences are real and transformative, what do they 498 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 2: tell us about the nature of consciousness and the great 499 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 2: mystery of death itself. To begin to answer this, we 500 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,759 Speaker 2: must look at the fourth and final component of the ND, 501 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 2: the transcendental features. This is where the experience moves beyond 502 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 2: our earthly understanding into a realm that can only be 503 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 2: described as mystical and often the most difficult to put 504 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 2: into words. Doctor Graceon shares an account from a twenty 505 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 2: six year old woman who had an end during an 506 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:48,800 Speaker 2: emergency C section. Her doctor had lost her pulse. She says, 507 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 2: I heard my doctor say I've lost her. She's gone. 508 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 2: Then four angels were carrying me through a great, huge auditorium. 509 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 2: The two large doors of the auditorium opened, and we 510 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 2: went out and up through space. I saw a beautiful 511 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 2: white city with a wall around it and a set 512 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 2: of gates facing me. I was so excited because I 513 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 2: wanted to go through those gates. But it was not 514 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,920 Speaker 2: her time. She found herself back on the operating table, 515 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 2: and her reaction was not one of relief, but of 516 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 2: profound grief. She said, I begged him to let me 517 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 2: go again. It was honestly the saddest time of my life, 518 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 2: and yet it was the most beautiful time of my life. 519 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 2: This kind of transcendental journey, happening at a time of 520 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 2: extreme physical crisis, poses the ultimate challenge to the conventional 521 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 2: scientific worldview. In our schools and universities, we are taught 522 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 2: a simple equation that the mind is what the brain does, 523 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 2: that consciousness is a product of complex chemical and electrical 524 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,800 Speaker 2: signals inside our skulls. As doctor Grayson puts the materialist view, 525 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 2: it's like digestion is what the stomach does. That when 526 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 2: the brain dies, the mind is extinguished. End of story. 527 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,280 Speaker 2: But the evidence from fifty years of near death experience 528 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 2: research makes this simple equation impossible to maintain. Doctor Grayson 529 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 2: presents a mountain of evidence for the mind functioning at 530 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:30,320 Speaker 2: a higher level than normal, completely independent of the physical brain. 531 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 2: This includes the enhanced lucid and complex thoughts people have 532 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 2: during cardiac arrest, the verified out of body perceptions of 533 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 2: events that they could not have possibly seen or heard 534 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 2: with their physical senses, and the phenomena of terminal lucidity 535 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 2: where people with Alzheimer's or other forms of severe dementia 536 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 2: who haven't recognized their loved ones in years suddenly have 537 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,280 Speaker 2: a brief period of perfect clarity with all their memory 538 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 2: to say goodbye just before they pass. How is this 539 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 2: possible if their brains are irretrievably damaged. This has led 540 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:16,359 Speaker 2: doctor Grayson and other major scientists to a revolutionary new 541 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 2: model of consciousness. The brain's job is not to create consciousness. 542 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 2: The brain's job is to filter it. Think of it 543 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 2: this way. Our brains evolved for one primary purpose, to 544 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 2: help us survive in the physical world. To do that, 545 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 2: it has to filter out the overwhelming flood of information 546 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 2: that makes up a larger reality, allowing us to focus 547 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 2: on the basics, like finding food, seeking shelter, avoiding predators. 548 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 2: Consciousness is vast and non local, but the brain acts 549 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,800 Speaker 2: like a reducing valve, letting in only a tiny trickle 550 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 2: that is useful for our day to day survival. Think 551 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 2: of your consciousness as a voice being broadcast and your 552 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 2: brain as the cell phone. You hear the voice through 553 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 2: the cell phone, but the phone itself isn't creating the voice. 554 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 2: It's just a receiver. If the phone's battery dies, the 555 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 2: voice doesn't cease to exist, you just can't hear it 556 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 2: through that same device. Anymore. In the same way, when 557 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 2: the brain begins to shut down during a near death experience, 558 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 2: that filter weakens, the reducing valve opens up, and the 559 00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:41,160 Speaker 2: person's awareness is flooded with a much larger, more expanse 560 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:46,240 Speaker 2: of reality. This is why their thoughts can become clearer, faster, 561 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 2: and even more logical than ever before, even as their 562 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:57,360 Speaker 2: brain is failing. This understanding has profound spiritual and theological implications. However, 563 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:02,840 Speaker 2: as doctor Grayson notes, mainstream theologians have been largely silent 564 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,239 Speaker 2: on this topic. This has left the doors open for 565 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 2: a wide range of interpretations. Some religious groups have tried 566 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 2: to claim NDEs as empirical proof of their specific doctrines, 567 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 2: but this has also led to what some have called 568 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 2: religious wars, with other groups, particularly some fundamentalist Christians, rejecting 569 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 2: NDEs as dangerous or even demonic. The core of their 570 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:36,840 Speaker 2: argument is this the being of light in NDEs offers 571 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 2: unconditional love and acceptance to everyone Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, everyone, 572 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,239 Speaker 2: regardless of their specific beliefs or whether they have ever 573 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 2: been born again. To these critics, this universal love contradicts 574 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 2: their interpretation of Scripture, which they believe promises salvation only 575 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:04,760 Speaker 2: to a select few. Therefore, they conclude this all loving 576 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 2: being of light cannot be God. It must be a 577 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 2: disguised Satan appearing as an angel of light to lead 578 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 2: humanity astray. Doctor Grayson's research offers a powerful and elegant 579 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 2: rebuttal to this grim perspective, using a teaching from Jesus himself. 580 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,799 Speaker 2: You will know them by their fruits. If an experience 581 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 2: is truly from a negative or deceptive source, it should 582 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 2: produce negative fruits like fear, selfishness, greed, and despair. But 583 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,080 Speaker 2: the fruits of the near death experience, as proven by 584 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:49,200 Speaker 2: decades of research, are the exact opposite. They are overwhelmingly positive, 585 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 2: an increase in love, compassion, empathy, service to others, humility, 586 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,080 Speaker 2: and a complete loss of the fear of death. It 587 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:03,840 Speaker 2: defies all logic to believe that a demonic deception would 588 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 2: result in millions of people becoming more selfless, loving, and 589 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,799 Speaker 2: christ like in their actions. Another critique you might hear 590 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:19,320 Speaker 2: is that NDEs promote a doctrine of cheap grace, meaning 591 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:24,759 Speaker 2: the idea of unconditional forgiveness without any need for repentance 592 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 2: or changing one's ways. But again this is a profound 593 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:33,560 Speaker 2: misunderstanding of the experience. The life review is not a 594 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:39,440 Speaker 2: passive movie. Experiencers report that they don't just see their actions, 595 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:44,279 Speaker 2: they re experience them from the perspective of the other 596 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,920 Speaker 2: people they affected. They feel the joy they brought to others, 597 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:54,400 Speaker 2: but they also feel with excruciating clarity, every ounce of 598 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 2: pain and sadness they ever caused. This is the opposite 599 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,560 Speaker 2: of cheap grace. It is an experience of ultimate responsibility 600 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 2: and interconnectedness, and it is what instills in them the 601 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:14,720 Speaker 2: unshakable commitment to return to their lives and be more loving. 602 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,440 Speaker 2: So what is the ultimate meaning of this phenomena. Doctor 603 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:24,200 Speaker 2: Grayson suggests that near death experiences can be seen as 604 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:30,160 Speaker 2: spiritual catalysts. They are not an end in themselves. One 605 00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:34,839 Speaker 2: mystical experience does not make someone a saint, but they 606 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:40,319 Speaker 2: are a powerful awakening, an invitation that can kickstart a 607 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:45,680 Speaker 2: lifelong journey of spiritual growth and development. Doctor Kenneth Ring 608 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,359 Speaker 2: takes this idea even further, suggesting that the ND might 609 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:55,600 Speaker 2: be an evolutionary device. He speculates that as modern medical 610 00:47:55,640 --> 00:48:00,000 Speaker 2: technology allows more and more people to be resuscitated from 611 00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:05,160 Speaker 2: the brink of death, the cumulative impact of their transformative 612 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:11,360 Speaker 2: testimonies could be fostering a spiritual evolution for all of humanity, 613 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:17,319 Speaker 2: gently shifting our collective consciousness toward a more compassionate and 614 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 2: interconnected future. At the end of his powerful fifty year retrospective, 615 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,440 Speaker 2: Doctor Grayson was asked a simple personal question by one 616 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:32,000 Speaker 2: of the conference attendees. After all this time, after all 617 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,799 Speaker 2: this research, how has it changed him? He answered with 618 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,360 Speaker 2: the humble honesty that defines his work. He said that 619 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:45,240 Speaker 2: he started his career as a firm materialist, a doctor, 620 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,880 Speaker 2: and a man of science who was not afraid of 621 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,600 Speaker 2: death because he believed it was simply the end. What's 622 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,239 Speaker 2: to be afraid of, he thought, But after five decades 623 00:48:55,400 --> 00:49:00,279 Speaker 2: of looking at the ND evidence, he said, simply, I 624 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:05,120 Speaker 2: can't believe that anymore. I think there is something after death, 625 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,880 Speaker 2: but I've absolutely no idea what it is. He said 626 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:14,759 Speaker 2: that because experiencers tell him that what awaits us is 627 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:19,080 Speaker 2: beyond words, and he believes them because it is so 628 00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:24,640 Speaker 2: far beyond our brain's capacity to comprehend. He concluded by 629 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,560 Speaker 2: saying that the biggest way the research has affected him 630 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,239 Speaker 2: is that now he is more comfortable not knowing all 631 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,520 Speaker 2: the answers, and perhaps that is the ultimate lesson for 632 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,680 Speaker 2: all of us. Fifty years of research has built a powerful, 633 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,240 Speaker 2: undeniable case that we are more than our physical bodies, 634 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:49,400 Speaker 2: that our consciousness survives death, and that the universe is 635 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:54,640 Speaker 2: woven together with a love beyond our wildest imagination. The 636 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:59,880 Speaker 2: evidence is clear, the transformations are real, and the implications 637 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:04,279 Speaker 2: a revolutionary. This brings our time together to an end. 638 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:09,040 Speaker 2: Remember come visit me at Weedo'tdie dot com. Check out 639 00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,840 Speaker 2: our friends at the International Association for Near Death Studies 640 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:17,400 Speaker 2: at IMDS dot org. I'm Sandra Champlain. Thank you so 641 00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,319 Speaker 2: much for listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the 642 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:26,800 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast Network. 643 00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,399 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost 644 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,439 Speaker 1: Day and Paranormal podcast Network. Make sure and check out 645 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,719 Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going 646 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:49,560 Speaker 1: to iHeartRadio dot com.