1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: How are we doing tonight? How's the field to be? 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 2: Here? 3 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: The blue room with the voice over research show? 4 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 3: Thank you a whole thanking everyone, who's This. 5 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 2: Is my friend LJ. Granard performing at one of the 6 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 2: first Boys Sober Live shows I hosted in Nashville last year. 7 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: Who's all gay? 8 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 4: Here? 9 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: Yes, hold my hand, everybody, let's buckle in. 10 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 3: We're gonna talk about the lord who's an ally? 11 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: We love that. 12 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 3: Who's on the fence about the whole thing? I know 13 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 3: there's a couple of you in here. 14 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 2: I do. 15 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: It's okay, You're safe. I know because I'm from here. 16 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 3: I'm from Nashville, Tennessee, and I too was on the 17 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 3: fence about the whole thing for. 18 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 5: A long time. 19 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: LJ and I have a lot in common. We're both 20 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: from Tennessee, both grew up in conservative religious communities, and 21 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: both really found ourselves when we moved away from it 22 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 2: all to New York City. But Lj's self actualization was 23 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: a bit different than mine. 24 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 3: What you see before you is a homosexuals. 25 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 5: Thank you very much, And. 26 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm relatively confident in my. 27 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 5: Category these days. My genre. 28 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 3: I think I'm kind of cute, you know, I think 29 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 3: I'm kind of handsome and a little bit pretty. I 30 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 3: like who I am, but I wasn't always like this, right, 31 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 3: I'd like to take you all the way back to 32 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 3: right here in Nashville, Tennessee, in the early two thousands, 33 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 3: early twenty teens, and my genre, my category looks a 34 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 3: little different back then. 35 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: Right. 36 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 5: I'm straight, I'm a Virgin, I'm a Republican shout out 37 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 5: show hell yeah, and I wasn't Evangelical Christian. 38 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: This week, we're bringing you Lj's story of faith, love 39 00:01:54,680 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: and finding themselves. I'm hopeworded and welcome to Boysover, a 40 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: space where we're learning and unlearning. All the myths were 41 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: taught about love and relationships. I've talked a bit about 42 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,679 Speaker 2: my religious upbringing on the show and the way it 43 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: affected my relationship to love and sex. Like LJ, I 44 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 2: was raised in the Evangelical church, and like LJ, I 45 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: didn't completely hate my experience. 46 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 3: Looking back, it was beautiful and kind of dark and 47 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: cartoonish at times, but beautiful. 48 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 4: Right. 49 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,679 Speaker 3: I knew those people my whole life. I used to 50 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 3: walk into that church and feel so comfortable. I'd take 51 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 3: my shoes off after school, and that's sanctuary. The homework 52 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 3: in the pews. 53 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 5: I was welcome, I was known. 54 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 2: In some ways, the church was enlightening, but in others 55 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: it was harmful and confusing, especially so for LJ, who, 56 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 2: after moving to New York for college, realized they were 57 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: get and then eventually trans. I always knew I wanted 58 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 2: to talk to LJ. Moore about this experience, how they 59 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 2: untangled what they learned about love growing up to how 60 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 2: they love now, and if they're able to still have 61 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: a relationship with faith. 62 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 5: I was scared. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, 63 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 5: no no. I'm gonna lose everything. That's what they told me. 64 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 5: I'm gonna lose my faith, my community, my identity, my category. 65 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 5: So I'm thinking with First John. 66 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 3: Four seven through eight running through my head right, anyone 67 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 3: who loves is of God and knows God. 68 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 5: Anyone who does not love does not know God, because. 69 00:03:53,400 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 4: God is love. LJ. 70 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 2: What's up? 71 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 4: Hey, Hoe, how are you? 72 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 2: I'm really good, Thanks for being here. Let's let's get 73 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: into it. 74 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 4: Absolutely, I'm locked in. 75 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: Okay, great. Tell me about the community you grew up in. 76 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 4: I grew up in a really small evangelical community in Nashville. 77 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 4: It was like this small school like sixty kids per 78 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 4: grade K through twelve, right, and it was like a 79 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 4: church attached to a school. It was really sweet and 80 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 4: small and intimate. But it's also quite isolated, I think 81 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 4: from the rest of the world in that way. Like 82 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 4: it was lovely that my English teacher was also my 83 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 4: friend's mom. Hm. 84 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: So interconnected, right, yeah, very connected, a bit sheltered, Yeah, 85 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 2: extremely religious. 86 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 4: Yes, it's the vibe very exactly. 87 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 2: Did you enjoy religion growing up? 88 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. 89 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, tell me about it. 90 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 4: You know, as a queer person, as a trans person, 91 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 4: like I was just thought I was, you know, just 92 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:01,679 Speaker 4: like every other normal kid. Yeah, straight, cis gendered, eterosexual, whatever, 93 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 4: and God loving and God loving, and I really did. 94 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 4: I very much believed in God, very much liked religion, 95 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 4: liked church, liked youth group. I like went and was 96 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 4: gung home about it. 97 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: I was. I mean, listen, the church camps are fun. 98 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 2: They're fun, like the canoe trips with the youth group. Listen, 99 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: it's a good time. 100 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 4: The time. All I want to do is like stand 101 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 4: in the circle and like sing a song with my friend. 102 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 2: No, totally, people love that. But what did you like specifically? 103 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 2: What's your favorite thing about that world Christianity. 104 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 4: I think that something I'm really grateful growing up with 105 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 4: is the repetition of it, the ritual of it, the community, 106 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,799 Speaker 4: and the intimacy of like going to the same place 107 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 4: with these people, right and asking questions that are bigger 108 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 4: than you know, what do you do for work? 109 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: And what do you like? 110 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 4: I think that that is something that really sets apart 111 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 4: growing up in a spiritual tradition, any kind of religion, 112 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 4: is that you're asking these really huge questions from quite 113 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 4: a young age, for better or worse. You know, I 114 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 4: think a lot of times quite scary to think that 115 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 4: your small actions have existential consequences to help. Yeah, it's 116 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 4: extremely tenuous, and it's a lot of pressure on a kid. 117 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so much pressure, but. 118 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 4: Also like kind of kind of amazing. Also, I think 119 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 4: holding the space for both of those things to be 120 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 4: true is something that you and I really can Oh, yeah, 121 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 4: we do. 122 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 2: We do love to hold two truths that are sometimes 123 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 2: conflicted in those moments. Did you feel like you belonged? 124 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 4: Uh? Yeah, I did, one thousand percent. I didn't question 125 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 4: it at all. Is the thing. I think that I 126 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 4: felt like I belong there. I felt like that was 127 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 4: my world and my community and my truth. And that 128 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 4: is why it is so devastating to come out and 129 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 4: have that same community flip and not everyone. I'm gonna 130 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 4: go ahead and say it's not everyone all the time, 131 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 4: but even my own understanding of what I was being 132 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 4: told in my own life flips, right, My perception of 133 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 4: what I was taught flipped totally. And there's a lot 134 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 4: of grief in that too, being like, oh wow, you know, 135 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 4: I feel like it's like a betrayal. I feel like 136 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 4: I was lied to or manipulated and once again not always, 137 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 4: or it was misused. 138 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 2: Or totally What were the conversations about love? Like, like, 139 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: what did they teach you about love? Specifically in the 140 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 2: church you grew up in? 141 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 4: There is the idea of love as in the like 142 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 4: the Christian tradition of love as like you know, sacrifice 143 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 4: or unconditional love or an extraordinary mercy. Is that real 144 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 4: sort of christ Like? That's christ Like, right, extraordinary unconditional love. 145 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: And mercy, forgiveness, grace, accept matter. 146 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: Why you get in here? Yeah come here? Yeah you 147 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: know that and that was really taught. 148 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 4: So imagine my. 149 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 2: Surprise, me confused, confused. 150 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 4: He listens like. 151 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 3: Everyone extraordinary except you brother, totally, except a few certain 152 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 3: groups that we actually don't we are not. 153 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: In exact most of the groups, most. 154 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 2: People outside of our little circle. Yeah, an interesting thing. 155 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:58,599 Speaker 2: It's it's contradicting. When did you start questioning it? 156 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 4: It was a slow unraveling. I think that I started 157 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 4: questioning it when my dad got sober. My dad started 158 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 4: getting sober when he was when I was a junior 159 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 4: in high school, and that was like something that was 160 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 4: very secret within the church. 161 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 2: We love secrets. Those communities love a secret. My dad 162 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 2: also got added for a few things, right, no, exactly. 163 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 4: Yeah, And so then that's when my definition of what 164 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 4: it meant to actually put into practice unconditional love that 165 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 4: makes you uncomfortable, started to open up. And then when 166 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 4: I went to college, I was like eighteen years old 167 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 4: and moved to New York, Yeah, and had just never 168 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 4: come upon anyone who was different ever. 169 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: Right, right, and oh my gosh, talk about jumping into 170 00:09:59,160 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 2: the deep end. 171 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, so I had like it when I started that. 172 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 4: My dad's aarred that sobriety journey is when things started 173 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 4: to unravel because you cannot you have to start telling 174 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 4: the truth if you want to actually get sober, and 175 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 4: so then then you start to pick apart all of 176 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 4: these things that are going on in secret in the church. 177 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 4: And then I moved to New York and I was like, wow, 178 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 4: I seemed to be missing some details. 179 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's a whole other world out here. 180 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 4: It was me, I remember so clearly my freshman year 181 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 4: of college going to the Museum of Natural History for 182 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 4: the first time and walking in the door and I 183 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 4: was with a bunch of new friends and they kind 184 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 4: of like flew past this giant exhibit of the timeline 185 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 4: of evolution. 186 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, they were like, that's it's that you guys should 187 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: have learned about in the fourth grade. 188 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 4: And I stood there with my mouth a gape. Yeah, 189 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 4: everyone has gone by, And I was like, I think 190 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 4: kind missing some some big information yere totally. 191 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 2: That's when I was like, uh oh right, Yeah, are 192 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 2: there certain people that sort of like pulled you in 193 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 2: or like helped this transition? Like what else sort of 194 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 2: helped you realize? 195 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 4: I mean it's like, you can't you can't be in 196 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 4: New York City and not come across every type of 197 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 4: person totally. So I think a lot of it was 198 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 4: just taking a beat and listening to hearing perspectives that 199 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 4: I had never encountered before. I know, I had one 200 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 4: teacher specifically in acting school, we read like The Hero 201 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 4: with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell. 202 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 2: Right, that's like every Southerner's awakening something. Yeah, because you've freaked. 203 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 4: Out because I had like gone so deep I read 204 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 4: the Bible cover to cover before, which people are shocked by. 205 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 4: I was also in apologetics class, which I like to 206 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 4: call Defense against the Dark Arts, right, where you like 207 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 4: learn the defense of the Christian faith. 208 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 2: Is there like a specific quote or moment or piece 209 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 2: of that book where you were just like, oh shit. 210 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 4: It's the comprehensiveness where they break down the story of 211 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 4: Christ and show it over and over and over and 212 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 4: over and over again in many cultures throughout all of history. Right, 213 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 4: it's not one moment. It's that it's sort of relentless. 214 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 2: I think is the book's relentless in what way? 215 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 4: It's a relentless account of that The story of Christ 216 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 4: is incredibly true in that it's extremely human to go 217 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 4: through that arc of death and rebirth and sacrifice and 218 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 4: redemption and coming back to each other. But it is 219 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 4: so true that it occurs over and over and over 220 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 4: and over again, and not just in this one book 221 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 4: or one account that we've edited six thousand times, you know, 222 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 4: and that really was extraordinarily novel to me. 223 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 3: We had the truth, right, We had this beautiful, important thing. 224 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 3: We thought we had the truth, and it was supposed 225 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 3: to share the love of Jesus Christ with the world, right. 226 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 3: And there was a bit of a self righteous sense 227 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 3: of urgency because the rest of the world was thought 228 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 3: of as lost in agony, in agony, and we had. 229 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 5: To go save them. 230 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 3: So you can imagine how people reacted when I said 231 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 3: I'm going to go to New York City for college. 232 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 3: Mom and dad, they all sat me down and they said, Lydia. 233 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 5: Lydia is my name. It's you can use it. It's 234 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 5: not dead, it's just resting, they said, Lydia. 235 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 3: When you get to New York City, you're going to 236 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 3: be tested. 237 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: People are going to try and lie it to you. 238 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 3: They're going to manipulate you, they're going to try to 239 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 3: pull you away from your truth. 240 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: They're going to try to tell you things like Jesus 241 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: didn't die. 242 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 3: For your sins, like the world was made in more 243 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 3: than seven days, and even worse, they might try to 244 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 3: lure you into a homosexual lifestyle against your will. And 245 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 3: I'm standing there not in my head, like totally that 246 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 3: sounds bad. 247 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 2: I want to talk about how your romantic life changed 248 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 2: from Nashville to New York, Like, did you get to 249 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 2: New York and fall in love? 250 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 4: I sure did. I felt so hard in love, but 251 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 4: I really wasn't able to I wasn't able to accept 252 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 4: my own sexuality until I loosened my grip on my 253 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 4: faith a little bit. And I remember, Yeah, I met 254 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 4: this girl and we were friends at first, and the 255 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 4: way we fell in love was I was directing a 256 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 4: monologue she was performing in and the monologue was her 257 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 4: saying confessing she had a crush on someone. So every 258 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 4: time we had rehearsal, it would be just the two 259 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 4: of us in a room, and she'd be like saying 260 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 4: to me, like, I think I have a crush on you. 261 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: I thought that was like so sort of romantic. It 262 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 2: was a terrifying I was so you felt terrified, Okay, 263 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 2: speak to that. 264 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, oh my god, I was terrified. So I'd never 265 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 4: been in love before. And just because you know I 266 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 4: came out after that doesn't mean it. I didn't still 267 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 4: think that like my eternal my eternal life was at 268 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 4: stake kind of on the DL right, m hmm, yeah. 269 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 4: I was still really scary to admit that I was queer, right, 270 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 4: terrifying what was coming out? Like, I came out after 271 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 4: I was in that relationship, So it wasn't until I 272 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 4: was like in love with someone and I was like, 273 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 4: I care more about this person than keeping this secret. 274 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: Oh that makes me so emotional. It's interesting though, that 275 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: you didn't come out with them. 276 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 4: I mean, we kind of did, but she was from 277 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 4: New York. She was like, not a big a deal, 278 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 4: that's so real. I was literally I remember it was 279 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 4: just the stakes were so high for me. And she 280 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 4: was like I'm probably kind of gay, you know. 281 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 2: And You're like, you're not scared of the afterway. 282 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: Literally she was like, no. 283 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 4: Italian and Jewish? 284 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 2: Did your family know? Is that when it all came 285 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: out for your family? It's like did people from the 286 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: South were they surprised? Did they say we know? 287 00:16:58,520 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 3: Like? 288 00:16:58,760 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: What was the response? 289 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 4: My dad was surprisingly cool about it. He was like 290 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 4: what and then he was like okay, but he's done 291 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 4: way worse stuff, so he was kind of like thank God, 292 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 4: someone's finally on my level, but not on his level. 293 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 4: Not wrong, but my I mean my mom was God, 294 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 4: she was soset no cried. That's a pretty standard story, 295 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 4: but she has It's. 296 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 2: Not standard, well for a lot of quis for a 297 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 2: lot of people, but I think specifically for people in 298 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 2: the South whose parents are also thinking about the afterlife. 299 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 2: And that's something you talked about on the voiceover show 300 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 2: at the storytelling show. 301 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 4: I think, I don't know the exact wording, but I like, 302 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 4: you love me so much, you want me to live forever, 303 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 4: but you're losing sight of of loving me here now. 304 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 4: And there's nothing righteous about the pursuit of heaven if 305 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 4: it means turning your back on the people you love 306 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 4: here on earth. Wanting to love me so bad but 307 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 4: really losing sight of being able to do that here. 308 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 2: Do you want to speak to what your relationship is 309 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 2: like with your mom now? 310 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's hard. I don't really have a 311 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 4: relationship with my mom. I have been pretty estranged from 312 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 4: my both my parents for about three years now, which 313 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 4: is really painful. My mom and I are trying to 314 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 4: connect via email, but I really I really cut off 315 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 4: all contact. Once I knew that I was trans, that 316 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 4: once I knew I wanted top surgery, once I knew 317 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 4: it was about gender, I like the being queer was 318 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 4: hard enough. You know, when when your joy causes someone 319 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 4: else pain, it is so difficult to just like hold that, 320 00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 4: and that queerness was one thing, but with gender it 321 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 4: really infuriates people. And I knew that that's that's sort 322 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 4: of the that was what I was going to be 323 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 4: getting into with her, And I was like, I can't 324 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 4: be in relationship with my mom right now and not 325 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 4: completely abandon myself in the process. Of course, So it's 326 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 4: been it's been hard. It's been hard. 327 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 2: Your dad, when you came out as trans, that crossed 328 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 2: a line for him too. He was less. 329 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 4: My dad doesn't know. I don't talk to him for 330 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 4: different reasons. 331 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 2: Whereas your mom's love feels like. 332 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 4: She wants to be so bad, she wants to she 333 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 4: wants to be so bad. 334 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 1: She's like hitting me over the head. 335 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 4: With homophobic, transphobic rhetoric being because she so desperately loves 336 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 4: me and is trying to like save me from eternal dymnation. Yeah, 337 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 4: I know, and I'm like totally I see what you're 338 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 4: doing there? 339 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, and you're like, this is all in 340 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 2: good faith. 341 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 4: There's only so many times I can I can beg 342 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 4: you please, don't it right? And so we're we just 343 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 4: email and I ignore it and copy and paste to 344 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 4: us the same response over and over to her when 345 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 4: she starts going down that rabbit hole. Yeah, that is 346 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 4: just the reality of what it means to come from 347 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 4: that world. 348 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 2: Can you take me back a little and speak to 349 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 2: like when it is you knew you were trans. 350 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 4: In the pandemic? I remember I was. It just keeps 351 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 4: coming up, right, it just kept bubbling up to the surface. 352 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 4: But I thought the thought, you know, am I am 353 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 4: I trans? Can this be a part of my identity? 354 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 4: Can it looks similar to some people that identify with 355 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 4: and different? You know, I'm not a I don't identify 356 00:20:55,040 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 4: as like a binary trans guy like I just somewhere 357 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 4: in the in between. And when you feel that way, 358 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 4: you know, when there's something gray about it, I think 359 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 4: it's harder to claim it. But it just kept coming up, 360 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 4: the question, and every time I would see sort of 361 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 4: a non binary person or transmass person expressed themselves and 362 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 4: I'd be like, you know, you could feel it in 363 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 4: your body, like I could feel in my body that 364 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 4: I was like that, I like that, I want that right, 365 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 4: And so I secretly bought a binder, which is like 366 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 4: a basically like a supreme sports braw and it flattened 367 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 4: your chest and it gives you the visible appearance of 368 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 4: a flat chest and makes your clothes fit differently and 369 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 4: just kind of like I felt my body really like 370 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 4: like that, I felt more freedom in my movement and 371 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 4: I felt like I could wear clothes that I wanted 372 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 4: to wear, and I felt better immediately. I think a 373 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:59,239 Speaker 4: lot of insecurity and anxiety I attributed to any other 374 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 4: kind of trauma my life over the years. Once I 375 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 4: put that on, I felt an alleviation of so much 376 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 4: anxiety that I was like, oh, oh this is me. 377 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 4: Oh that is real. 378 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, where do you find community now? And what was 379 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 2: it like to leave that community behind? 380 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 4: I'm really grateful for the people who are in my 381 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 4: life from that world. It means so much more because 382 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 4: it's such a farther leap to grow with someone and proof. 383 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 4: I think, especially now and like an extremely polarized time, 384 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 4: I'm like I have living proof of these relationships that 385 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 4: we've gone from pretty radical evangelical Christianity and conservatism in 386 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 4: the South to being able to open up to a 387 00:22:52,200 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 4: larger context of acceptance understanding curiosity. It is possible so 388 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 4: that community still does belong to me, even if I 389 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 4: don't feel like I can always be my whole self there, 390 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 4: or even if I'm still unraveling it, even if there's 391 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 4: still things that we are working through, I still do 392 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 4: belong there. And there are people who know that, and 393 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 4: the people who know that. It's like such an accountability 394 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 4: accountability maybe accountability is the wrong word. No, I'm proof. 395 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 4: I'm proof of something that I speak the language of 396 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 4: this world, and I am someone you loved or currently 397 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 4: love from that world. And I think the people who go, 398 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 4: oh wait, yeah, I know I do love you. 399 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 2: I know you. 400 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 4: I must figure out a way to reconcile my belief 401 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 4: and my worldview and change the way I think right 402 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 4: to fit that, and some people do not everyone does, 403 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 4: including my mother. 404 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 2: It's a weight to carry. Yeah. So you being there 405 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 2: and you being like the lovable and brilliant person that 406 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 2: you are and being able to speak that language, it 407 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 2: challenges that you challenge people in such an inviting way. 408 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 2: And I know that's not easy, but it is so 409 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 2: like powerful. 410 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 4: And I like doing it. Yeah, we do like doing 411 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 4: that to Scorpio here, who kind of like doing it 412 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 4: because I love. 413 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 2: We love being like, this is not who you are. 414 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,959 Speaker 2: You have a good heart and you have bad politics. 415 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 2: And I was you. 416 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I was you. 417 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 2: I was and kind of am. 418 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 4: What is this out to do with love? 419 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 5: Right? 420 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: I'm almost thirty and I still. 421 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: Know in my bones that I don't think I would 422 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 3: have left the church, the religion if I hadn't fallen 423 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 3: in love with a woman and felt what the difference 424 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 3: is between conditional and unconditional. 425 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 5: Love, What that feels like in my body when it's tested. 426 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 3: I was scared because coming out felt like I was 427 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 3: standing blindfolded and gagged in front of a doorway of 428 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 3: an airplane a thousand feet in the air, and someone 429 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 3: was telling. 430 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 5: Me to jump. But, as is the case with any 431 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 5: strongly held belief, there will come a point when you 432 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 5: have to decide between a staying aligned with the value 433 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 5: it represents and breaking the rule that you invented to uphold. 434 00:25:59,520 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 4: It. 435 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 2: Was there a moment where you stepped away from God 436 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 2: in religion completely? 437 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 4: This question makes me nervous. 438 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: This question still makes what are you scared of? I'm 439 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 1: thinking about the time. 440 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 4: You know, when I did step away from God. I 441 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 4: literally was writing in a journal, like sweat dripping down 442 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 4: my face, like I do not believe in God. I 443 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 4: do not believe in God. I do not believe in God. 444 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 4: Because I was so scared of the words I do 445 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 4: not believe in God. I was like, He's gonna smite me, 446 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 4: you know, I was terrified, but I knew it was 447 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 4: like it is crazy that I am scared of thought, 448 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 4: scared to have a doubt, scared to say the words, 449 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 4: scared of you know, because if God is all powerful, 450 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 4: all loving, whatever, He's not afraid of my words, of 451 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 4: my thoughts, of my doubt. So in a way, it 452 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 4: was my faith that like allowed me to go there. 453 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, like. 454 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 4: God's not scared of our little fears or doubts or whatever. 455 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 4: And I so there was a time where I really 456 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 4: had to like move into that. And I think for 457 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 4: like a year or two or something, I tried not 458 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 4: to think about it. But it's a hard thing not 459 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 4: to It's you know, it's hard, it's a habit in 460 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 4: some ways. You know, it was hard to like ever, 461 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 4: actually let go. 462 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 2: What's a habit exactly? 463 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 4: Prayer? I mean it's like if you talk to God 464 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 4: every day for twenty five years, it just like you 465 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 4: can just like turn that off. 466 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 2: You missed it. 467 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 4: Yeah, I was like, it's like if you I literally 468 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 4: you know, have a conversation, a running conversation going with 469 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 4: the idea of God. So to step away from an 470 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 4: internal dialogue, right is pretty impossible. 471 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 2: You know it sounds lonely, Yeah, lonely. 472 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 4: It's like I didn't want to really, you know. There's 473 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 4: like my own relationship to prayer and faith is personal 474 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 4: and it doesn't feel related to like that's not the religion, 475 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 4: that's not the church. That's mine, Like it's my own experience. 476 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: How do you talk to God? 477 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 3: Now? 478 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 4: Their relationship is pretty casual. I feel like it's like 479 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 4: God and I we've been through a lot right now, 480 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, now when I talk to God is 481 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 4: just like hey, yeah, totally, Hey, could you chill out 482 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 4: for Yeah? I think I know how my relationship to 483 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 4: God to prayer is more like just checking in. I 484 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 4: still do like kind of close my eyes and bow 485 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 4: my head and go like hey, like thank you, you know, 486 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 4: I do a lot of the same stuff that I 487 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 4: always have, and my relationship to faith has changed a lot, 488 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 4: but that relationship to prayer, I still feel like I'm 489 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 4: talking to the same thing. 490 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 2: That is something I feel like I don't do enough, 491 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 2: which is pray. So hearing you say you pray still 492 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 2: it's inspiring to me because I think it's something we feel. 493 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 2: I don't know, there's resistance, it's loaded. There's resistance to me. Yeah, 494 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 2: you know, and yeah, it's just a complicated thing. How 495 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 2: do you think prayer helps you understand yourself? 496 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 4: I think it's a form of meditation. I think anytime 497 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 4: you slow down and like let your inner voice show 498 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 4: up and you know whatever, if you're calling it your 499 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 4: inner voice or you're calling it God, or you're calling 500 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 4: it consciousness or the ocean, anytime you sit down and 501 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 4: slow down and really look at it, I think you 502 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 4: get to know yourself more. 503 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 2: I'm so scared of it. I'm so scary scared of it. Yeah, 504 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 2: because it is so vulnerable, isn't it. 505 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting that you say that because it's just 506 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 4: you're alone. 507 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 2: Maybe it's also a piece of like when you pray, 508 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 2: you're admitting something is out of your hands, you know 509 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 2: what I mean? There feels like this, this feeling of 510 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 2: like I can't do anything about this, I have to 511 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 2: just give it to something and hope that that's something. 512 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 4: Has got you is a benevolent sort of presence. It 513 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 4: feels vulnerable to yeah, to admit or a feeling that 514 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 4: you maybe aren't don't want to have, or thought you 515 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 4: don't want to have, or yeah, and trust it's just 516 00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 4: gonna pass through. 517 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 2: What's your advice for people trying to figure out their 518 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,479 Speaker 2: own identity and how do you unravel what you actually 519 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 2: want and believe versus what you were conditioned to want 520 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 2: and believe. 521 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 4: That's a hard one. 522 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 2: That's a tough one. 523 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 4: It's a good one though. 524 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 2: Right now. 525 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 3: I think. 526 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 4: One major thing is I think listening to your body, 527 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 4: listening to the body you're the signals your body is 528 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 4: trying to give you, you know, which requires slowing down, 529 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 4: which requires like sort of like taking a breath. Also 530 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 4: finding people who are not judgmental and who are like 531 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,719 Speaker 4: just open to being curious with you. I don't think 532 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 4: I could have figured it all out because this is 533 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 4: messy period. This is a period where you chat, you 534 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 4: gotta be able to change your mind. You got to 535 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 4: be able to like try something on and then be 536 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 4: like that wasn't it. And being able to like be 537 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 4: honest and vulnerable with people who are affirming of the process, 538 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 4: who are not going to like criticize you or try 539 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 4: to put you into some sort of category before you're 540 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 4: ready to. And the difference between conditioning it's really hard. 541 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 4: You gotta have a lot of grace for yourself, I think, 542 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 4: because that's for me at least in inner voices. It's 543 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 4: loud and there's a grieving process. 544 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 5: But so being able to like take a moment. 545 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 2: To be with that, yeah, right, be with the grief, 546 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 2: be with the ge the complexity. 547 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, and then be excited about like finding out what 548 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 4: is real. Like there's so it's holding on to that 549 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 4: idea of like, oh wait, there's a version of me 550 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 4: out there that is not scared or insecure as you know, 551 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 4: in the same way that's like embodied can really be 552 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 4: present with people and feel cute and whatever. It's not 553 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 4: it's all not so scary. It's quite exciting, right. Yeah. 554 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I'm hearing you and thinking of like 555 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 2: just really feeling. 556 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 4: Through your fears. Yeah. 557 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 2: One day at a time, like working through them thinking 558 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, and getting to the other 559 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 2: side of them. Yeah, I'm gonna start praying again. 560 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 4: I'm like, I love you. 561 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 2: I love you too. 562 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 3: Coming out felt like I was standing blindfolded and gagged 563 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 3: in front of a doorway of an airplane a thousand 564 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 3: feet in the air, and someone was telling me to jump. 565 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 3: So I jump, and it turns out the plane is 566 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 3: on the fucking ground the whole time. 567 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: Guys, it is fine out here. 568 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 3: It's fine. It's I'm not lost. I'm not I'm not 569 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 3: lost at all. I'm like, you know, it's fucking lovely 570 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 3: being gay. I'm not in agony. I'm collageing watching Ru 571 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 3: Paul with my friends. Really, it wasn't easy, because you know, 572 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 3: I still have that feeling, especially. 573 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 5: Being here back home, I have that feeling oh no, 574 00:33:58,600 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 5: no no. 575 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 3: But when I get that feeling, that fear, that confusion, 576 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 3: I wonder if my love is real, if my love 577 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 3: is worthy, if my love and my God will ever 578 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 3: really see each other. 579 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 5: What I remember is that verse that God is love, 580 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 5: and I also remember that if the love is real 581 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 5: and the plane is already on the ground. 582 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much to LJ for telling 583 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 2: their story both on stage and in the studio with me. 584 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 5: Will you finally disappear. 585 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: It raised yourself from all those please. 586 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 2: LJ is also an insanely talented singer and songwriter. This 587 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 2: is their beautiful song playing right now. You can listen 588 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 2: to the our music on Spotify just search l J 589 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 2: Grannard that's l J g r A n e r 590 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 2: e D. You can also follow them on Instagram and 591 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 2: TikTok at l J Granard to see what they're up to. 592 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 2: Thanks everyone for listening. Talk to y'all next week. 593 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,959 Speaker 5: Hell it's carton reaching home. 594 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 2: Boy Sover is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, 595 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 2: Hope Ordered. Our executive producers are Christina Everett and Julie Pinero. 596 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 2: Our supervising producer is Emily Meronoff engineering by Bahid Fraser 597 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 2: and mixing and mastering by Aboo Zafar. If you liked 598 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 2: this episode, please tell a friend and don't forget to rate, review, 599 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 2: and subscribe to Boy Sober on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 600 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 2: and wherever you get your favorite shows.