1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: Adamized Studios. 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 2: Michael Man and I met about twenty five years ago 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 2: through architecture. On a trip to London. He asked to 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 2: visit the Lloyd's Building, designed by my husband Richard Rogers. 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 2: For us, it was an honor for if Michael was 7 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 2: a fan of Richard's architecture. Richard was a huge fan 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 2: of Michael's movies. In fact, when watching Ali, Miami, Vice, Collateral, 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: my arm would be constantly squeezed, not due to a 10 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 2: dramatic moment of fear or tension or mystery, but at 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: the way the buildings, streets, airports, bridges, and interiors, even 12 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 2: elevators were portrayed on screen. Over long dinners, Richard and 13 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: Michael often compared making a movie to making a building. 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 2: Michael once said, while at least Richard, in a building, 15 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: you can say to a client, if you remove a column, 16 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: the building will fall down. Try saying that about a 17 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: scene to a producer. Of all the movies Michael has made, though, 18 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: the one that I consider the greatest is sixty seconds 19 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: long shot entirely underwater in a swimming pool. Michael and 20 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: summer with their children swimmingly, wishing a happy birthday to Richard. 21 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 2: No architecture in this movie, just love So Michael, would 22 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: you read the recipe for sure? 23 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 3: This is a Southern Italian version of a tello tonato 24 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 3: cold roasvelle fresh tomato. So five hundred grams of cold 25 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 3: roast velle, two hundred and fifty milli liters of tomato sauce, 26 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 3: six basil leaves, fifty grams of salted capers, two lemons 27 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 3: and extra virgin olive oil. Slice of veal as fine 28 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 3: as possible. Squeeze the juice of one lemon and mixt 29 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 3: it with three times its volume of olive oil, and season. 30 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 3: Lay the veal slices over each plate, season with sea salt, 31 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 3: and drizzle with the dressing. Spoon over the tomato sauce, 32 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 3: and scatter with the capers and basil leaves, and then 33 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 3: drizzle with olive oil. 34 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 2: This dish Fatello tonato is very northern, and this is 35 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 2: a southern version. And I wonder whether you have traveled 36 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: from north to south in Italy? What is your Italian 37 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 2: traveling experience? 38 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 3: Varied but mostly spent a little time in Naples Once 39 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 3: upon a time, and then then Venice and drove around 40 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 3: the Dolomites at different times, but mostly it's been in 41 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:43,399 Speaker 3: It's been in the Media. 42 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 4: Romagna, around Modena Maronello. 43 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: The Ferrari factory is then in Bologna Milan, where all 44 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 3: the great design is. 45 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: And it's very different. You know, we're just describing northern Italy. 46 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 2: I don't know what you ate in Naples and this 47 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: dish being so southern that it is, it's not even 48 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 2: region to region or city to city. It can be 49 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 2: village to village town, you know, family to family. The 50 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 2: way that people eat in Italy. 51 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 3: First time I visited the Ferrari Factory, went across the 52 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 3: street to Kavolino restaurant that has been there since the 53 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 3: nineteen fifties, and the cuisine is modernation. So it's a 54 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 3: big metal cart full of horribly boiled meats. 55 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: Alo that's right. Yeah, I actually really love it. But 56 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: they do cook it a very long time time and 57 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: you get the tongue and you get the yet everything. 58 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, my grandmother hit the neck of totally destroying meats. 59 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 4: I think it came from it came from it came 60 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 4: from Big Russia. 61 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: Living tell me about her, So just starting going back 62 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: to your child. So your grandparents came, both of them 63 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: from Russia. 64 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 3: My grandfathers came from Russia. They came from about seventy 65 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 3: or eighty miles north of Chernobol. 66 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: Did they come from the same place or did they meet. 67 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 3: They came, No, they came from the same place. They 68 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 3: came from over. My grandfather had to leave at the 69 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 3: very traumatic circumstances in nineteen twelve, and it took him 70 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 3: ten years to get my father, who was one at 71 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 3: the time, and my grandmother to the United States. 72 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 2: Your grandfather came first in twelve, and then did he 73 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: go directly? 74 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 3: He went to White Chapel, he was in a British army. 75 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 3: Then he wasn't in a British army. Then he came. 76 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 3: Then he went to Hartford, Connecticut. Then it was an 77 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 3: American army. 78 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 2: In the First World War. 79 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 3: Then the First World War. Yeah, And then nineteen nineteen 80 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 3: he lost his hearing and the flu epidemic and my. 81 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: Grandfather died in the fluid the same generation, you know. 82 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 3: And then finally in nineteen twenty two was able to 83 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 3: get my grandmother my father out and then they moved 84 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 3: to Chicago. But she was a spectacular woman, very very witty, 85 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 3: very politically very progressive. But what she was she killed 86 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 3: as a cork were COIs. 87 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 2: She made these cheese described finish. 88 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,119 Speaker 3: Fish is kind of a It's a bread, small bread 89 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 3: thing that's cooked in olive oil and has either meat 90 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 3: or cheese on the inside. And what it's made in 91 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 3: a cast iron frying pan that's been around for forty years. 92 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 3: It's fantastic. And remember one time I was driving home 93 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 3: from her house. I'd picked up a blue earthenware container 94 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 3: of this of these things and around the seat of 95 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 3: the car as car as a fifty four plymouth. It 96 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 3: was my uncle Sam's car that he let me drive 97 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 3: the car. And there was a lot of traffic on 98 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 3: California Avenue and I was driving back to to our house, 99 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 3: and so I took a hard light on Catalpa, took 100 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 3: a left out in an alley and hit a gigantic 101 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: pothole in the alley, and in the way time slows down, 102 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 3: I saw this earthenware container of my grandmother's condess just 103 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 3: start to fall off the seat in slow motion, and 104 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 3: I saw myself had to get to a telephone pole 105 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 3: and I'm thinking moment, it was either saved the conditioners 106 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 3: or saved the car. So I reached for the conditions 107 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 3: and just crashed the car into the pole. 108 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 2: To die for a kindish might not have been. 109 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 3: That's how much it's got all the important early themes 110 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 3: of basically immature life. From that point forward, it was 111 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 3: just driving cars. 112 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 2: And so your grandmother was the cook, She made the conditions. 113 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: Was she the one that overlooked the beef or was 114 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: that your mother? 115 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 4: No, she over cooked the beef. I don't know. I 116 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 4: think it was. 117 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 3: I mean it was a standing joke and the family, 118 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 3: my brother and I, you know, you would chew it 119 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 3: and tell you your jaws ate you couldn't masticate this. 120 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 2: What else did your grandmother? Did she live with you? 121 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 2: By the way, your grandmother, No, she didn't. So you 122 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: would go to her house an event to eat in 123 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: her house. 124 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 3: And my father was my father stopped and saw her 125 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 3: every day. And later in life, when I knew more 126 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 3: about life, I realized there was because it's probably the 127 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 3: ten years that they were alone together. 128 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 4: There was a certain bond there. 129 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 3: Because while my grandfather was gone came the First World War, 130 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 3: the Russian Revolution, the Civil War, and there were progroms 131 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 3: in the area from the through the Civil War from 132 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 3: the white Russians. So you know, there were hard times. 133 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: If your grandmother brought her food, did your mother did 134 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,119 Speaker 2: they move towards American food? 135 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 3: My mother was born in the United States, Okay, so 136 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: my grandmother. No, my grandmother cooked. You know, if you 137 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 3: cook the way they traditionally the way they did, you went, 138 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 3: you went to the store, you bought a live chicken. 139 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 3: They killed the chicken. You brought the chicken at home. 140 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 3: You know, I'm not going back to the nineteen fifties. 141 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: And what was it like in your house? Who did 142 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 2: the cooking at your house? 143 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 4: My mother? 144 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, did your father ever venture into the kitchen. 145 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, he did, and he had a real sensibility for cusine, 146 00:07:55,040 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 3: for fruit number one. But then also finally imported mushrooms 147 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 3: from Poland, for example, a certain kind of a mushroom 148 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 3: barley soup. Or when I was working for my father 149 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 3: when I was a kid, from when I was like 150 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 3: twelve to sixteen, Uh, he had like a supermarket, a 151 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 3: small supermarket. And in the winter I was I was 152 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 3: delivering groceries and it's ten below and you're carrying groceries 153 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 3: wagon or something carrying a portion that you got cold. 154 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 3: And they always had some gigantic pot with some kind 155 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 3: of a massive. 156 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 4: Stew, you know, it all day long in the grocery store. 157 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 3: In the back of the grocery store. It was a 158 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 3: very family kind of a kind of affair. Yeah, and 159 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 3: exotic kinds of smoked fish from Eastern Europe would show 160 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 3: up and there'd be something hanging in the basement, but 161 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 3: he would sell that. That was that's where that's where 162 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 3: we had. 163 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 2: That's we head home, you know, and the grocery store sold. 164 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 4: It was just a big Yeah. 165 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 3: It was just a standard kind of supermarket, neighborhood, supermar 166 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 3: What was the. 167 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 2: Area was it. 168 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 3: It's near the northwest side, it says, kind of a 169 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 3: mixed kind of lower middle class, working class area, very 170 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 3: very diverse population. Two waves of Polish immigrants, a very 171 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 3: upper middle class wave of Polish immigration from the nineteen twenties, 172 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 3: very sophisticated people, a Jewish, Italian, some Irish. 173 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 4: So it was quite mixed. 174 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 3: I saw when they had we used to go to 175 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 3: a church right after must have been nineteen forty six 176 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 3: forty seven, right right after the War. There was a 177 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 3: neighborhood church a block away that had showed movies in 178 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 3: the basement, the old black and white, sixteen milimeter movies. 179 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 4: And I remember being taken that. 180 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 3: When I was very young and I saw a movie, 181 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 3: I just remembered certain things about it. In nineteen ninety one, 182 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 3: when I had I couldn't figure out what to do next, 183 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 3: what film to do next. I remember that railing around 184 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 3: in my brain was this image of a of an 185 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 3: Iroquois Indian head shaved bold and lined with a red coat, 186 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 3: a British uniform eighteenth century British uniform soldier. And that's 187 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 3: such an anomaly because we always saw as your kid, 188 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 3: you always saw America, you know, Native Americans and cowboys 189 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 3: or something, and that stuck in my mind, and also 190 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 3: a corollary tragedy of the death of a young woman. 191 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 3: And I realized that this has been rattling around in 192 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 3: my head since I was about three. So it was 193 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 3: last of the Mohicans and so so well, you got 194 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 3: to go to the last Mohicans. So this, this old 195 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 3: neighborhood really had this resonance. I think things impressed themselves 196 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 3: on your memory when you're very young, in ways that 197 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 3: are are are huge. 198 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 2: And then at home, who is it you have a 199 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 2: brother or sister? 200 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 4: How many brother? 201 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: And did you sit down for meals? Did your father 202 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 2: come back? 203 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 4: We waited. My father came home. 204 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 3: He took a bath and took a shower, and we 205 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 3: formally sat down and he always had a good shot 206 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 3: of whiskey and a shot of whiskey and uh and 207 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 3: we had a formal dinner every night. 208 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 2: And that continued till you left home. 209 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 4: That continued until I left home. 210 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 2: You know, when you left home? 211 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 3: What was that like? 212 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,719 Speaker 2: Going from being cooked for every day and then being 213 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 2: out there? Did you cook yourself? Where were you after it? 214 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 3: I did? I went to I went to the University 215 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 3: of Wisconsin, Madison, and then after four years there I 216 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 3: went to London. 217 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 4: And uh, yes, I did. I cook for myself. 218 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 3: I also was working as a kind of a short 219 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 3: ordered cook, doing breakfast at a girls dormitory in the 220 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 3: morning in Wisconsin. 221 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 2: You know. 222 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 3: So it was just interesting getting up at five thirty 223 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 3: in the morning and Wisconsin in a winter and going 224 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 3: to you know, a. 225 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 2: Lot of clue from your grandmother to your mother, to 226 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: the grocery store to working. Did you ever work in 227 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 2: a restaurant. 228 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, I did. I was a short cook one summer 229 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 3: in front of Yeah, which is crazy. You will blanche 230 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 3: at some of these stories from these places. We used 231 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 3: to because there'd be this massive rush and it was 232 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 3: a memory test because you were having to remember all 233 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 3: these orders at the same time. And if somebody ordered 234 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 3: a steak the way we would get a steak done quickly, 235 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 3: somebody would grab it out of the freezer, they throw 236 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 3: it down the kitchen. We would catch it and dump 237 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 3: it in the French frar. 238 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 2: In the fire. 239 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely horrible. 240 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 3: Probably guilty of some form of order, manslaughter or something, 241 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 3: because there's probably regular diets who had earlier heart disease 242 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 3: because they ate these things. 243 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was Wisconsin. And then you went to 244 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 2: this is about but what about London? Because I was 245 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,599 Speaker 2: in London in the sixties and it was kind of 246 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 2: I always felt there was a kind of beginning of 247 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 2: that multicultural excitement of food rationing was you know, only 248 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 2: fifteen years before after the war, I think that then 249 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 2: and then in the sixties there seemed to be a 250 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 2: lot more food of Greece and Italy. This it was 251 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: much more vibrant. Did you remember the food of this. 252 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 3: Totally absolutely my experience with bigger short of cook and 253 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 3: all this stuff. This is in the this in your 254 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 3: early sixties and the States and h I talked about, 255 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 3: you're working for my father. 256 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 4: This is in the nineteen fifties. 257 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 3: But in sixty five I went to London to a 258 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 3: film school for two years and stayed there for six years. 259 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 3: And the cuisine was, you know, basically beans on toast, yeah, 260 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 3: and transport. 261 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 2: Calf yeah, and chip sandwiches. 262 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 4: Did you ever have chip sandwiches? 263 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 3: That was really big on transport caffs, beans on toast 264 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 3: or you're having you know, or eggs. 265 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 4: I used to love. 266 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, every swimming in Greece, bacon fat maybe large. 267 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 3: And the revelation was I couldn't afford it. But the 268 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 3: revelation was was Greek food particularly particularly there's a heavy 269 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 3: influence from Cypriot food, so it's like cheftalia sausage and 270 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 3: those kinds of things. So there's these little funky kebab 271 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 3: stands around Charlotte Street just north of Oxford Street, and 272 00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 3: an Indian food. 273 00:13:59,200 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 4: Which is a revelation. 274 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, where did you live? 275 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 3: I lived all over I lived in Queensway, very briefly, 276 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 3: and then we were on New King's Road. Then I 277 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 3: lived in Balum, then clap himself and back in South ken. 278 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 2: Did anybody ever take you to a restaurant that was Yeah? 279 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 3: How did I start actually started making a little bit 280 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 3: of money? And then the thing was so attractive was 281 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 3: on Fulham Road there was an Italian restaurant and I 282 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 3: was living on ten pounds a week, literally is five 283 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 3: pounds for rent, five pounds. But the ambiance of a 284 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 3: nice Italian restaurant on the spring or a summer day 285 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 3: and you know, a Saturday or Sunday with families kind 286 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 3: of which to me was kind of was so touching 287 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 3: about the River Cafe because that ambiance is there and 288 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 3: its fullest, most technicolor form in your restaurant and this 289 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 3: whole extended family that you created. 290 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 2: So were you taken to when you were in film school? Then? 291 00:14:59,120 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: What was that in London? 292 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 3: I was in London, it was in Covent Garden, It's 293 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 3: on Charlotte Street. Then the move to Covent Garden. It's 294 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 3: a London film school. 295 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and what was that like? 296 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 4: That was great? 297 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 3: For the first time in my life, I was doing 298 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 3: exactly only what I wanted to do, which is make film, 299 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 3: which was a revelation to me when it happened in 300 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 3: my junior. 301 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 4: Year at was Scott's. 302 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 3: So I took a film history course for a kind 303 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 3: of cynically, I thought, oh, we're going to there's gonna. 304 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 4: Be three credits for looking at movies. 305 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 3: And I didn't expect to get completely mugged and hijacked 306 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 3: by this whole notion which curded a flash of light, 307 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 3: like the skies parted and bolt of lightning came down and. 308 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 4: Said you will do this, you will become a film director. 309 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 4: And from that point on and that was it. That's 310 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 4: what I want to do with you. 311 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 2: Was Ridley Scott. There was Alan Parker and Ridley Scott. 312 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 2: Were they in the same Did you know them? 313 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 3: Then? 314 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 4: I knew Ridley. 315 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 3: I didn't know I met Alan Parker years later, but 316 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 3: I knew Ridley, And you know, the late sixties, I 317 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 3: started a small production company after I got out of 318 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 3: film school and London. We made some commercials and documentaries 319 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 3: and I shot some of Paris after Major in sixty eight. 320 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 3: That was politically pretty involved. Yeah, and so life was 321 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 3: changing and evolving. At one point I worked at twentieth 322 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 3: century Fox towards sixty nine in production, and by that 323 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 3: point I was making enough money it's going to live reasonably. 324 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 3: And I had a production manager I worked with whose 325 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 3: wife was fresh and he was. 326 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 4: Quite a spectacular cook. 327 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 3: And that was probably the first serious exposure I had 328 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 3: to really good cuzin home cooking. Yeah, it was home 329 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 3: cooked French French food. And then we were spending a 330 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 3: lot of time in France at that point, in trailing 331 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 3: to Morocco in Italy, and so the world was getting 332 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:42,479 Speaker 3: to be a much larger place. 333 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: And France was that huge few Being in Paris. 334 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 3: Well sixty eight was pretty wild. 335 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 2: Well, we got there much later. We got there in 336 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 2: sort of seventy one, but there were still the buses 337 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 2: full of police and Daniel Combandi Well. 338 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 3: I interviewed Combindi Lan's mar Alon Cravine. 339 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 2: Wow have that footage? 340 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 4: No, it wound up. 341 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 3: It grown up in the bowels of NBC News someplace, 342 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 3: and I tried to find it years and years ago, 343 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 3: couldn't find it. 344 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 2: Did you make a documentary about from beginning to end it? 345 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 3: Well? 346 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 2: You just is it footage for the news documentary? 347 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 3: About the focus of documentary was that the sixth May 348 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 3: JUnit happened, and what's what's going to be the after effect, 349 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 3: And that's what it was really focused on. And the 350 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 3: prediction at the time, which was partially true parsonally not, 351 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 3: was that the major impact was going to be amongst 352 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 3: teenagers into these says, and that there was a radicalization 353 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 3: of the young workers, particularly young workers at the Renaul 354 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 3: factory who were CGT, and they started to look at 355 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 3: the CGT in a very different light as being basically reactionary. 356 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 3: But the idea that you're in a country and forty 357 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 3: percent of the population is on strike, and if you 358 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 3: turned on RTF at six o'clock to watch the news, 359 00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 3: there'd be some girls she might or may not still 360 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 3: reading the news, sitting on the desk, she may may 361 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 3: not have a shirt on. 362 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 4: I mean, it was everybody. 363 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 3: A youth generation had taken over, and it wasn't just students. 364 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 3: There was students and young workers. 365 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 2: But then you know, and they say that the gold 366 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 2: that he had a plane ready, it was very very 367 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 2: close to him leaving. 368 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 3: He was basically a prisoner in the palace, and then 369 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 3: he made a deal and he couldn't count on the 370 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 3: French army in France because they would deploy and then 371 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 3: some you know, girls would show up with some flowers 372 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 3: and the soldiers would walk away from the APC's so 373 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 3: it's complete chaos. So he made a deal with the 374 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 3: French Army of the Rhine, because Germany is still occupy 375 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 3: at that point, to come in and support him, and 376 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 3: they extorted from him, in effect, the release of Ceylon, 377 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 3: who was a right wing of French general. 378 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 4: Who over the war in Algeria. 379 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 3: It was part of a plot to sassinate the Gall 380 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 3: and was in prison, and that that was the quid 381 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 3: pro quo of the Gall getting support from the military, 382 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 3: and that they they marched in from Germany and that 383 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 3: so so better kind of dived and everything dissipated. 384 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 2: So that the military cushed it. Right, Yeah, I was 385 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 2: because there was always theories that the working class didn't 386 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 2: you know, that it was a student led revolution, and 387 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 2: that it just didn't have the backing of. 388 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 3: Well but every but the people who were intellectually on 389 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 3: top of it, who were at the heart of it, 390 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 3: knew nothing serious was actually going to happen in the 391 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 3: real world right then and there. It was very sophisticated. 392 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 3: The irony is that is that sitting in London prior 393 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 3: to Major sixty eight, everybody dismissed the French's Cafe Marxist 394 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 3: or something, and then ironically that's where sixty eight was 395 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 3: just extraordinary. You're in Czechoslovakia and Mexico City. I was 396 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 3: in the Grosvenor Square on October twenty fifth. 397 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was there. 398 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 3: You were there, Clinton was there, Tarika, he was there. 399 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 2: Illy have a picture by the march. It was heady times. 400 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 2: And as I said, when Richard, when the Pampato we went, 401 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 2: it would still there would be go to the cinema 402 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 2: on a Sunday night and it was scary coming back 403 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 2: because they just they would lock the police when they 404 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 2: just just locked them in these vans for hours and 405 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 2: you're just can imagine the tension and the fear and 406 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 2: you know the horror of having to sit in there. 407 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 2: That's true. And then you did when did you go 408 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 2: to Morocco? Why was that? 409 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 3: I went to Morocco just to be in Morocco, went 410 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 3: to Costa Blanco because I'd seen a movie called Costa Blanca. 411 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 4: You had to go to costap Bloc. 412 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 3: Great food, great food, I think, great food. Marvelous dysentery. 413 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 3: In some it's looking at some hot on the coast 414 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 3: and some healer. A woman came in and gave me something. 415 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 4: I don't know what it was. 416 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 3: It must have been some opiate, because I suddenly felt great, 417 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 3: got all. 418 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 4: Bound up, and then kind of continued on. Toured through 419 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 4: the Atlass Mountains a bit. 420 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 2: When you were on a movie set, did you think 421 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 2: about how the feed the crew did you eat yourself? 422 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 3: I do, and I make sure that the food on 423 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 3: the set is really, really great and have great catering. 424 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 3: Is a guy named Mario and in Miami who I 425 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 3: used all the time, and Miami I couldn't tell you. 426 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 3: He's by Miami, Vice and other pictures. 427 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 4: I just bring them with me. 428 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 2: I think that's kind of unique because I've talked to 429 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: various directors and people who've worked on film and they 430 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 2: say it can be a disaster for lunch. You know, 431 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: there's just they're just terrible food, and people eat on 432 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 2: a healthy food and then the amount of time it 433 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 2: takes to stop for lunch and eat. 434 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 4: It's pretty it's pretty tough. 435 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, Japan was interesting because because the catering was not great, 436 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 3: it's kind of you know kind of you know, cardboard 437 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 3: bento boxes and stuff, and we improved it when I 438 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 3: shot the Tokyo I spilot in Tokyo. 439 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:58,959 Speaker 2: Did you tell me about food in Tokyo? 440 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 3: Food and Toki go spectacular. You can't get a bad 441 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 3: meal if you're tried to get a bad meal. Within 442 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 3: We're living in Daka, Yama, and within one hundred and 443 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 3: fifty meters of our apartment were probably half a dozen 444 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 3: spectacular restaurants, any one of which would have been the 445 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 3: best sushi restaurant in Los Angeles. 446 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 2: Did you eat anything else other than Japanese? 447 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 3: Yes, Italian they're the you know, like literally one hundred 448 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 3: and fifty feet outside the front door was the Princely 449 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 3: Bakery from Milan, had an outpost next to Sutaya, the 450 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 3: big Sataya bookstore. So there was fantastic Italian bakery, gooods 451 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 3: every morning, fresh food with spectacular in Tokyo. People in 452 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 3: Tokyo they spend money in a different way than they 453 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 3: do in the West. They don't spend money on living space. 454 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 3: They spend money on clothes, on food, on cars, but 455 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 3: not on living space. 456 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. I went spent morning in a cafe 457 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 2: in Milan, and I just kept seeing all these people 458 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 2: coming and dressed immaculately beautifully, and young people, and I said, 459 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 2: how do they afford to buy that Prada shirt, that 460 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 2: Gucci sweater? And they live at home? Yeah, they live 461 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 2: at home. They don't pay rent, and so they stay 462 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 2: until they get married or they really leave it. And 463 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 2: that gives you, you know, a lot of money to spend, 464 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 2: as you say, on food, on clothes, on the culture, 465 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 2: you know. And so when you're going tomorrow to Milan, 466 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 2: are you to know where is. 467 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 4: I'NFL like to Milan? They were driving right to Modorna. 468 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and tell me about that. What are you doing? 469 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 3: We're doing very early pre production on a feature film 470 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 3: about three months in the life of Enzo Ferrari in 471 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 3: nineteen fifty seven, when all of the all the dynamics 472 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 3: of his life that had happened to him at that 473 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 3: point come into collision in those three months, which will 474 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 3: determine the fate of everything he's going to become. His son, 475 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 3: Dino had died by a year earlier. His wife sent 476 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 3: warning he had another child, and illegitimate son named Piero 477 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 3: Pierro Lardi, who was starting to wonder why his name 478 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 3: is Lardi and not Ferrari. 479 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 4: And this company was going. 480 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 3: Bankrupt, so is his rival Maserati. They were both competing 481 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 3: to see who could get financing. His wife Lara, who 482 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 3: was kind of a Maria callous figure, was about to 483 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 3: find out what the whole town knew, which is that 484 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 3: there was another family living in Costell Meethro. So it's 485 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 3: all of these things coming to collision. And the opera 486 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 3: house one of the two opera houses in Mode and 487 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 3: I was right next door. So opera is a huge 488 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 3: plays a huge role in this. Fra early on wanted 489 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 3: to be an opera singer. Then he wanted to be 490 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 3: a sports writer, Yeah, sports writer. Then he wanted to 491 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 3: be a race car driver. And she was a race 492 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 3: car driver in the early twenties, and then he raced 493 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 3: one or two times against Neil Valeri and knew he 494 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 3: had no future as a race car driver and started 495 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 3: managing the Alfa Romeo racing team and then started his 496 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 3: own scooterio within Alpha and that that was the that's 497 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 3: that's the origins of the company, which he then began 498 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 3: in forty seven with Lara, and they started with absolutely nothing, 499 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 3: so if you think of racing and what is racing, 500 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 3: which is an interesting question, why is it so appealing? 501 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 3: I think it's so appealing because we have a basic 502 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 3: human impulse to exceed limits. I think it's primitive and 503 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 3: drives everything we do, whether it's going out of space 504 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 3: or doing research or building machines to make us go faster. 505 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 3: So that's why I think it taps into I think 506 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 3: that's why it's appealing. 507 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 2: Are there food scenes in the movie? 508 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 4: Not yet. 509 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 3: I'm all with the suggestion, Okay, tell. 510 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 2: Me about food in your movies, because there's obviously in 511 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 2: Heat when they become a diner or there's another diner. 512 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 2: Does that interest you the kind of language or the 513 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 2: kind of intimacy you can have in a restaurant as 514 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 2: opposed to you. 515 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 3: It does because it's such an important thing in life. 516 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 3: And there's two fantastic restaurants that nobody heat. There's one 517 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 3: of the Broadway Dells, which sadly is no longer there. 518 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 3: It's where Denio picks up Amy Brenneman and he and 519 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 3: the others. The coffee shop scene at Cape Mandelini, which 520 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 3: is this spectacled glafi shop. Cape Mandellini was a coffee, 521 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 3: a big coffee shop restaurant with wonderful modern architecture and 522 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 3: a contemporary architecture, and right on Wilship Boulevard, about a 523 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 3: block block west of the Academy, and everybody in Los 524 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 3: Angeles and the West side Los Angeles loved this restaurant. 525 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 3: Whoever owned the building decided they should double the rent, 526 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 3: and the restaurant went out of business, and there was 527 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 3: so much animosity that nobody would open another restaurant there 528 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 3: because they knew that nobody would go out of hostility 529 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 3: to its presence. So it's seven or eight years later, 530 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 3: it's still vacant. It's a sitting there. 531 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 4: No one ever went in there. 532 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 2: I always think, you know, I say over and over 533 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 2: again that people do very private things in a very 534 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 2: public space in a restaurant. You know, do you think 535 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 2: that's interesting as a scene that you could have filmed, 536 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 2: perhaps in somebody's kitchen, that you would film in a restaurant. 537 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: What does a restaurant mean? 538 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 3: For some reason, I don't know why, It's always strikes 539 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 3: me is it's it's social, it's warm, and when the 540 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 3: aunbiance is working as it does in your restaurant, you 541 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 3: feel that you the phrase extended family, which which you 542 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 3: use the way you view it. You really feel that 543 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 3: presence and so it's both intimate and it's and you're 544 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 3: in amongst humanity at the. 545 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 2: Same time, and you're doing safety around you. 546 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 3: Safety, and you're also part of a context, you know, 547 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 3: So you're a sentiment and you're part of the human context, 548 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 3: the social context simultaneously. Uh, you're doing something as essential 549 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 3: as eating and it's appealing to all your sensory intake. 550 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 4: You know, it changes your mood. I mean, it's do you. 551 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 2: Think you can tell about a person by the way 552 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 2: they are in a restaurant? Are they nice to the waiter? 553 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 2: Do they say thank you? Do they share their food? 554 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 2: Does it tell you something if you were going to 555 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 2: hire somebody, would you want to take them to a 556 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 2: restaurant first or would you rather bring them home or 557 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 2: or just interview them across the table. 558 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 3: Well, I'm a bad person to ask, because as a 559 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 3: film director, I'm constantly find myself in an involuntary way. 560 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 4: It's like a It's like I'm like an MRI. 561 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 3: I see what people do, and I just you know, 562 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 3: and I'm probably in my mind thinking if I had 563 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 3: a cast or direct an actor to be this kind 564 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 3: of person in a scene. Would I be telling him 565 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 3: to wear that shirt or he's eating with the wrong fork, 566 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 3: or the way he wipes his mouth or he doesn't 567 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 3: put his napkin in his lap, or the way he 568 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 3: picks up a glass. And one of the things you 569 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 3: notice right away is that you can pick up a glass, 570 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 3: but if you're a convict and falsome, this is how 571 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 3: you pick up the glass. 572 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 4: Every gesture. 573 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 2: Why do you pick up a glass? 574 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 3: Because it's a possession, it's a movement, it's an action, 575 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 3: you know, and everything is telling. And so people in 576 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 3: the restaurants are both totally self conscious and self aware 577 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 3: and they're totally unconscious and un self aware depending on. 578 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 4: Who they are what's going on. 579 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 3: So it's both revealing and what they're hiding, or it's 580 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 3: revealing and what they don't know they're I think there's 581 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,959 Speaker 3: something romantic about restaurants. There used to be a restaurant 582 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 3: here called Ladome, and we went to La Dome. It 583 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 3: was our family restaurant where every occasion was at Ladome. 584 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 3: You know, a gigantic round table. We have a very 585 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 3: large family, four daughters and sometimes extended boyfriends and what 586 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 3: have you. And so every time we went out to dinner, 587 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 3: it was like seven or eight nine people going out 588 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 3: to dinner, and all important family occasions were there. And 589 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 3: then it was Toscano over here the last twenty five years. 590 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 3: There is a family place and you get to know 591 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 3: the waiters so well, and then there's a party because 592 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 3: you know, Alberto's retiring after twenty years, so you know, 593 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 3: and then we meet people who are part of my daughter. 594 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 4: Aaron worked at the River. 595 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 3: Cafe for years and even walk in there, there's still 596 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 3: people say, oh, say hi to Air They do they do? 597 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 2: They remember her? And I think there is a sense. 598 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 2: I always think that when you walk into a restaurant 599 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 2: you want to feel somehow whatever you've been through, you know, 600 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 2: traffic getting to the restaurant or market. I'm in a 601 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 2: phone call that when you walk in you're safe, you know. 602 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 2: And I say that too to the people who work there, 603 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 2: that you just have to remember. People might have saved 604 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 2: up to come here. This might be a big date, 605 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 2: it might be a problem, and we just have to 606 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 2: say yes. 607 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 3: Really, why is it exciting? Is it is exciting to 608 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 3: walk in the River cart for it is exciting to 609 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 3: walk into a restaurant you love and people say hello, 610 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 3: and it's just the simplest of human interactions. 611 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 4: It's very common human, it's very you know that I 612 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 4: also exciting. 613 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 2: I think you elicted it as well, because there are 614 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 2: people who walk into a restaurant and don't get that 615 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 2: kind of welcome. But I think when Michael Mann in 616 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 2: Summer and Aaron come into a restaurant, you look people 617 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 2: in the eye, you say hello, you greet them, you know, 618 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 2: you look up when you're choosing, you know, something from 619 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 2: the menu, And so I think that it's a two 620 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 2: way street, you know. I do think that you get 621 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 2: what you give, you know, and speaking of getting and 622 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 2: what we give, because I know you have to start 623 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 2: packing for Italy. If food is love and food is 624 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 2: something that's creative to cook, it's also and be comfort. 625 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 2: So my last question to you, Michael Man, is if 626 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 2: you needed food for comfort, is there a food that 627 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 2: you would reach for? 628 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 3: Probably Pastinian bruto nice one. 629 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 2: To me. 630 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 3: It's like you know, culinary five milligrams of morphine. I 631 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 3: can't explain it. It was just it's wonderful, it is mellow. 632 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 3: You know, probably all kinds of old sense memories of 633 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 3: my grandmother. 634 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 4: I mean, there's. 635 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 3: Probably all kinds of things roll together because it's it's 636 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 3: chicken broth in the pie and the cheek. 637 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 4: I mean, it's just I. 638 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 3: Don't know, that's just if you ask me about comfort food, 639 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 3: that's it. 640 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 2: Well, you're going to have it in northern Italy, you'll 641 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 2: have it. You know, that's where it comes from. Thank you, Michael, 642 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 2: Thank you. 643 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: The River Cafe Look Book is now available in bookshops 644 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: and online. It has over one hundred recipes, beautifully illustraded 645 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: with photographs from the renowned photographer Matthew Donaldson. The book 646 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: has fifty delicious and easy to prepare recipes, including a 647 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: host of River Cafe classics that have been specially adapted 648 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: for new cooks. The River Cafe Lookbook Recipes for Cooks 649 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: of all ages. Ruthie's Table four is a production of 650 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and Adami Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 651 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 652 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.