Speaker 1: Actually it was a landing and not a crash, so
Speaker 1: there wasn't any debris. But what there was, and this
Speaker 1: is confirmed in a file on the incident that the
Speaker 1: Ministry Defense has now declassified and released what there was.
Speaker 1: As well as those burn marks and scorch marks on
Speaker 1: the trees, there were levels of radioactivity that seemed significantly
Speaker 1: higher than the average background levels. Welcome back to Catch
Speaker 1: in the Creepies Today, we welcome Nick Pope. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming on my podcast. Hi, Hi there.
Speaker 1: Now I don't know how to pronounce this correctly, so
Speaker 1: I'm going to just stab at it a you apologist, yes,
Speaker 1: although I guess one who did this not as a
Speaker 1: hobby but as a government job. So I don't really
Speaker 1: call myself a uthologist as opposed to government official who
Speaker 1: happened to be lucky enough to be given this amazing
Speaker 1: real life X files gig. But that sounds so I
Speaker 1: just like have so many questions, how did you get
Speaker 1: into that? Is it something you're interested in or did
Speaker 1: it volunteer? Lap? It completely fell in my lap. I
Speaker 1: was already in the Ministry of Defense and just the
Speaker 1: vacancy happened to come up at the exact moment that
Speaker 1: I was due for a move, so it was just
Speaker 1: right place, right time. But I had no previous interest
Speaker 1: in this subject, no background knowledge, no particular beliefs. It
Speaker 1: was just I know, this sounds crazy. It was just
Speaker 1: another government job. Are there other crazy government jobs we
Speaker 1: don't know about that? Are like people that studying ghosts
Speaker 1: in the government. Well, they were certainly in the US
Speaker 1: government for example, they had a program also looking at UFOs,
Speaker 1: as we did in the UK, but also they did
Speaker 1: get into so called remote viewing, which is just a
Speaker 1: kind of fancy scientific term for psychic stuff. So yeah,
Speaker 1: they have been looking at this. And just recently there
Speaker 1: was an article I saw it on the BBC News
Speaker 1: website talking about things like super soldiers and saying that
Speaker 1: a lot of these things that people have been talking
Speaker 1: about in terms of sci fi somewhere people are working
Speaker 1: on this, Like robot soldiers were a bit of both.
Speaker 1: Part of it is absolutely combat robots. And there's a
Speaker 1: big debate going on right now about whether there's always
Speaker 1: going to be a human in the decision making chain,
Speaker 1: particularly if it comes to lethal force. US and UK
Speaker 1: governments and some others have said, yeah, there should be
Speaker 1: other governments are a little less constrained by those sorts
Speaker 1: of legal and ethical and more. All. That's so scary. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but part of it, part of this whole super soldier thing,
Speaker 1: is human augmentation. And again there was a big article
Speaker 1: making some allegations about what what China might be doing
Speaker 1: in that regions. So so there's a lot going on
Speaker 1: right now that's so terrifying. Okay, So back to the
Speaker 1: that you were in the Ministry of Defense in the
Speaker 1: UK and you're doing some other job and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden a job opens up studying the extraterrestrial activity
Speaker 1: or UFOs or we we would just say UFOs or.
Speaker 1: In fact, we coined the phrase. We didn't invent it,
Speaker 1: but we popularized it U a P. Unidentified aerial phenomena.
Speaker 1: And that's now if you look at what's happening recently
Speaker 1: with all these stories that I'm sure you've seen about
Speaker 1: the U. S. Navy jets chain seeing the phenomenon, they
Speaker 1: always used the phrase U a P. So it's the
Speaker 1: term that we use in government, in military and the
Speaker 1: intelligence community. And we to speak to your point about
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial we didn't go in saying well, we didn't really
Speaker 1: go in with any preconceived ideas. We just said, if
Speaker 1: there's something in our air space, we need to know
Speaker 1: what it is because it's automatically a defense a national
Speaker 1: security issue. It might be the Russians, it might be
Speaker 1: our own technology, some deep black program, or it might
Speaker 1: be extraterrestrial. So we went in with an open mind
Speaker 1: and just said, let's do the investigations and see what
Speaker 1: the data show us. So you go in, are you excited,
Speaker 1: are you skeptical, are you nervous, or you're just kind
Speaker 1: of ready for whatever? A little bit of all of that.
Speaker 1: I think, Um, I'm skeptical, absolutely, but I can't help
Speaker 1: but be a cited. It's one of the great sayings
Speaker 1: that this subject that the skeptics have to be right
Speaker 1: every day, but the believers only have to be right once.
Speaker 1: And we're really in the ultimate game changing territory. So
Speaker 1: I went in never knowing is the phone going to ring?
Speaker 1: Am I going to get the case? The thing that's
Speaker 1: going to break this wide open? How? How is it
Speaker 1: going to go down? Oh? My god? How long did
Speaker 1: you serve at the Ministry at Defense? Twenty one years
Speaker 1: in all, but only three years on their UFO program
Speaker 1: because you get moved around every few years, either on
Speaker 1: level transfer or promotions. So I did a lot of
Speaker 1: different things in my twenty one year career. But I
Speaker 1: think even now looking back, UFOs has got to be
Speaker 1: the most interesting and fun in its way and most profound.
Speaker 1: I mean to me, as soon as I think of
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial life, then I think of the point of life
Speaker 1: and the universe and spirituality and who are we and
Speaker 1: why are we here? It just goes so existential so
Speaker 1: quickly once you bring in extraterrestrial conversations. And I think
Speaker 1: that for me, I've seen some weird things, but like
Speaker 1: you said, like I'm not a total conspiracy theory person.
Speaker 1: I realized that it could have been someone testing something
Speaker 1: or just something I didn't really understand. But I did
Speaker 1: see fireballs in the sky and they went away and
Speaker 1: then they came back in a different formation. And ever
Speaker 1: since I saw it, I've just been completely fascinated with
Speaker 1: what we actually know, and what governments know, and what
Speaker 1: the science behind it is. I think there's a quote
Speaker 1: from me that really stuck out. He said, I strongly
Speaker 1: suspect there's life elsewhere in the cosmos, because from observational data,
Speaker 1: the laws of physics and the laws of chemistry appeared
Speaker 1: to be constant throughout the observable universe. So and less
Speaker 1: you believe there's something almost literally magical about Earth, the
Speaker 1: same factors that gave rise to life here are likely
Speaker 1: to have arisen elsewhere. So for me, that's like summing
Speaker 1: it all up. If you believe in science, then it
Speaker 1: makes scientific end in the laws of chemistry and physics
Speaker 1: for there to be life elsewhere. I think so, yes,
Speaker 1: And there was a scientific study just done last year,
Speaker 1: I believe, and it came out with this statistic and
Speaker 1: it sounded like a low number because they said, we
Speaker 1: estimate there might be thirty six civilizations in our Milky
Speaker 1: Way galaxy. And that doesn't sound like very many until
Speaker 1: you do the math and realize, and I did. I
Speaker 1: got out of my calculator and I thought, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: Given the number of galaxies they estimate there are in
Speaker 1: the universe, that means there might be seventy two trillions
Speaker 1: civilization's out there. So it's just mind blowing. So you
Speaker 1: can't really say whether or not it would be a
Speaker 1: positive or a negative experience with an extraterrestrial because you
Speaker 1: don't really know who you're dealing with. I would assume
Speaker 1: it would be like any creature where there are some
Speaker 1: that are a little nicer than others. Well, I think
Speaker 1: it's going to be a spectrum. Yes, if people often
Speaker 1: say to me, what do you think the aliens alike?
Speaker 1: As if there is just one other civilization in the universe,
Speaker 1: And like I just said, with those statistics, chances are
Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of these people out there, and
Speaker 1: in which case your point is absolutely the way it
Speaker 1: would be. Chances are there's a spectrum, and you know
Speaker 1: statistically you're usually in the middle of it. So you
Speaker 1: walk into a room, for example, you are usually not
Speaker 1: going to be the tallest person or the shortest, or
Speaker 1: you will be in the middle. So same with the civilizations.
Speaker 1: They're will be many, many more advanced than us, and
Speaker 1: others less advanced and morally too. Simply put, there'll be
Speaker 1: good aliens and bad aliens and naughty aliens, as there's
Speaker 1: probably all different kinds of aliens. I never even thought
Speaker 1: about it like that because there's this quintessential picture of
Speaker 1: the alien with the head and the gray the gray aliens.
Speaker 1: But there was a guy who lived in my mom's basement,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna full disclosure. He was a little cookie.
Speaker 1: He's a cookie man. But his name is Carl, and
Speaker 1: he told me that JFK was assassinated because he was
Speaker 1: going to tell the world about extra trustrial life. They
Speaker 1: gave us they as in the extraterrestrials, gave us velcro
Speaker 1: and microwaves and on and on and on. So to me,
Speaker 1: it's like a little bit confusing because there were some
Speaker 1: points Carl made that were pretty impressive. But then I
Speaker 1: don't want to dip my toe into conspiracy theory culture either,
Speaker 1: because I think that's dangerous. Yeah, I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: all conspiracy theories are wrong. I mean I think history
Speaker 1: shows us some turn out to be right. And in
Speaker 1: relation to UFOs, yeah, I've heard those sorts of stories
Speaker 1: about JFK. And I've heard heard a version of that
Speaker 1: theory that brings in Marilyn Monroe as well and says
Speaker 1: that because they were just tell me, because I want
Speaker 1: to know, I have to know, Just tell me. Well,
Speaker 1: he talk so, and the theory goes JFK. Let's let's
Speaker 1: slip to Maryland that yeah, it's all true. They are aliens.
Speaker 1: She was going to disclose that, so they bumped her off,
Speaker 1: and then JFK said I'm going to disclose it, and
Speaker 1: they bumped him off. I don't believe that. I think
Speaker 1: it's a little bit, a little bit though, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I think it's a little bit far out there. But
Speaker 1: I suppose it wouldn't be the first time that a
Speaker 1: long shot has come in. But I prefer with my
Speaker 1: government background, I prefer to ground myself in the sorts
Speaker 1: of things that are unfolding. Now. I mentioned those US
Speaker 1: Navy videos, but where you've got pilots coming out with this,
Speaker 1: where you've got the radar evidence, where you've got classified
Speaker 1: briefings in Congress, Yes, yeah, as has been announced very recently.
Speaker 1: Senate Intelligence Committee have asked for a report on this
Speaker 1: from Director of National Intelligence. So, whatever you think about
Speaker 1: some of the more far out stories, all this is
Speaker 1: happening here and now. As a matter of on the
Speaker 1: record fact, do you think that we're in the age
Speaker 1: of potential soon disclosure of this information or do you
Speaker 1: think every every ten years people think it's coming and
Speaker 1: it just doesn't actually get disclosed from the government. I
Speaker 1: think we are further forward than we've ever been, and
Speaker 1: I think this Senate Intelligence Committee initiative is going to
Speaker 1: certainly move things forward again. But whether we cross the line.
Speaker 1: I mean, the UFO community have this concept of disclosure
Speaker 1: with a big D and in their mind's eye, it's
Speaker 1: the President going on the evening news at primetime saying,
Speaker 1: my fellow Americans, people of the world, we're not alone.
Speaker 1: My take is it might not quite go down that way.
Speaker 1: It might be a little bit more subtle, and I
Speaker 1: think that's what we're seeing now. But there are congressional
Speaker 1: briefings going on behind the scenes. People like Marco Rubio
Speaker 1: have gone on the record to say, look, I'd rather
Speaker 1: this was Aliens, because if it's Russia or China, we're
Speaker 1: in big trouble. They've made a quantum leap that is
Speaker 1: so interesting. And I did see Trumpet let a few
Speaker 1: things slide that we're just questionable comments about, you know,
Speaker 1: extraterrestrials or UFOs and his obsession with the Space Force.
Speaker 1: I can't help but think, like, why would you be
Speaker 1: so obsessed if there wasn't something else here? And um,
Speaker 1: the former Israeli space security chief, I am a shed
Speaker 1: I read what he had said about how there's we've
Speaker 1: been in contact with extraterrestrials and we have people on
Speaker 1: Mars and an underground bunker that are have relationships with extraterrestrials. Like,
Speaker 1: how legit do you think that is? Well, that story
Speaker 1: really struck me as being far out. Having said that,
Speaker 1: the guy is who he says he is. He did
Speaker 1: what he said he did in the Israeli space program,
Speaker 1: So he's certainly someone who if if this sort of
Speaker 1: thing is out there, as he says he is, someone
Speaker 1: who would know. Um, I think it's there. There are
Speaker 1: some pieces of that particular puzzle that we don't yet have.
Speaker 1: But you know, if any of this was happening in isolation,
Speaker 1: I think you could write one or two of these
Speaker 1: things off. But but it's more than that. In UM.
Speaker 1: For example, the Harvard professor Avy Lobe who spoke about
Speaker 1: this strange shaped object that came through our solar system
Speaker 1: recently Omua Mua and then a former CIA director, John Brannan,
Speaker 1: he gave her an interview where he started suddenly talking
Speaker 1: about something that might constitute a different form of life.
Speaker 1: And when all these people from whether they're CIA people
Speaker 1: or space scientists or professors, who government officials, intelligence community
Speaker 1: people who've who whoever they are. When they all come
Speaker 1: out with broadly the same sort of thing, all pointing
Speaker 1: the same direction, it does make me wonder whether there
Speaker 1: isn't some sort of orchestrated campaign here too. Well, you
Speaker 1: do you tell them that this, I'll tell them that,
Speaker 1: and then before we know it will be over that
Speaker 1: line and we'll have had disclosure. Well, and I feel
Speaker 1: like like you're saying, maybe disclosure isn't a moment in time.
Speaker 1: Maybe it is the information slowly coming at us to
Speaker 1: the point where it almost becomes normalized. Because that's what
Speaker 1: I've found in my life is I started, you know,
Speaker 1: I saw something of the New York Times. Then it's
Speaker 1: on the Post, and then it's on TMZ. It's kind
Speaker 1: of just like everywhere information about extraterrestrials. I spoke to
Speaker 1: fellow singer Demiel Vado about it, and it seemingly people
Speaker 1: are kind of unphased. And maybe that's the point, is
Speaker 1: to become used to that kind of information. It's not
Speaker 1: so crazy, it's not just for crazy people, And like,
Speaker 1: wha couldus that we're going through the disclosure and we
Speaker 1: don't even realize that we're in it. I think that's right.
Speaker 1: And you know, three years ago you mentioned the New
Speaker 1: York Times. Three years ago, just over three years now,
Speaker 1: they ran a big article where they exposed these Navy
Speaker 1: videos that that we've mentioned, and also they exposed the
Speaker 1: existence of a secret program called a TIP Advanced Aerospace
Speaker 1: Threat Identification Program. And the debate about what they did
Speaker 1: and didn't do continues to this day, and the Department
Speaker 1: of Defense have flip flopped over it quite a bit.
Speaker 1: But there's no getting away from the fact that if
Speaker 1: you'd have asked the US government three years ago, um,
Speaker 1: what's your line on this, their answer would have been
Speaker 1: nobody's interested and nobody's investigating. And now look where we are,
Speaker 1: Navy pilots, the videos, the congressional briefings, Director of National
Speaker 1: Intelligence drawing up a report on this. It's like it's
Speaker 1: it's the whole thing has flipped a hundred and eighty degrees,
Speaker 1: come out of the the fringe and into the mainstream
Speaker 1: in a way that I think would have been inconceivable
Speaker 1: three three years ago. Well, it's a lot of people
Speaker 1: that have a lot to lose, especially the respect that
Speaker 1: I would assume it would take so many years of
Speaker 1: hard work and a determined sense of wanting to work
Speaker 1: for the government and be of service and help make
Speaker 1: the country stable and good. So to me, like I
Speaker 1: sing songs, I can sing about aliens, nobody would bat
Speaker 1: an eyelash. But there are a lot of people talking
Speaker 1: right now have a lot to lose in terms of credibility,
Speaker 1: and I can't help but wonder why would they be
Speaker 1: sacrificing their credibility unless it was really real. Absolutely. One
Speaker 1: of the people who has spoken out recently is a
Speaker 1: retired intelligence official called Luis Alizondo, and he was so
Speaker 1: highly principled about this that that he resigned from from
Speaker 1: the government over this issue. And he said, look, I'm
Speaker 1: not a whistleblower. I took an oath and I'm going
Speaker 1: to keep that, you know, very seriously and not divulge
Speaker 1: classified information. But within you know, there's a line, and
Speaker 1: he went cross it. Neither will I. But within that
Speaker 1: Louis Alizondo and some other people too who have been
Speaker 1: involved in these sorts of programs, some directly, some indirectly,
Speaker 1: have said, look, what they want to do is kick
Speaker 1: start a conversation with the American people about this, and
Speaker 1: indeed not just the American people, the whole world, people worldwide.
Speaker 1: This is global. Yeah, it certainly is. It makes me
Speaker 1: wonder when will they deem us ready? And I feel like, also,
Speaker 1: what is the reaction going to be? Do you think
Speaker 1: people will feel at peace? Are just pure panic or
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of both. Do you think it's
Speaker 1: really gonna disrupt the sense of self spiritually? Because that's
Speaker 1: my theory, is that it's gonna really disrupt kind of
Speaker 1: like biblical and religious like religious beliefs. If there's this
Speaker 1: whole world and other people and maybe we're not the
Speaker 1: center of the universe and we're not the only ones.
Speaker 1: And to me, that's my theory of theory of why
Speaker 1: this has been kept kind of hush hush and is
Speaker 1: fringe and it's kind of a little crazy if you
Speaker 1: talk about it. I think there's a whole a lot
Speaker 1: of different things there too to unpack. I mean, certainly,
Speaker 1: one sense, every aspect of our lives will change, politics, religion, economics,
Speaker 1: science and technology, and one's personal paradigm and worldview. I mean,
Speaker 1: just everyone's view of who they are and how they
Speaker 1: fit in to the world. And if we get this
Speaker 1: to the wider cause marks. On the other hand, the
Speaker 1: flip side is people still need to go to work
Speaker 1: and go to school, maybe virtually these days, but you
Speaker 1: know um in person too, and and life has to
Speaker 1: go on. It has to so in one way, we
Speaker 1: just have to incorporate this new reality into our lives.
Speaker 1: And it's funny you mentioned the church, needless to say,
Speaker 1: and religion. I've been to a couple of scientific conferences
Speaker 1: on this. It goes I think without saying that. Almost
Speaker 1: the biggest row was about how religions are going to
Speaker 1: incorporate this into their doctrine. But finally enough they are
Speaker 1: thinking about it already. And the Catholic Church already has
Speaker 1: a line on this. So what is it? Is Jesus alien?
Speaker 1: Is Jesus an alien? Well maybe, but there their line,
Speaker 1: their line, I'm serious. Their lying is that there is
Speaker 1: no doctrinal objection to the existence of extraterrestrial life because
Speaker 1: human beings may place no creative limits upon God, and
Speaker 1: therefore it becomes God's call as to whether to make
Speaker 1: just Earth or whether to make trillions of other civilizations.
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that it won't be controversial. It will
Speaker 1: be well, that's going to be great. I feel like
Speaker 1: that's really reassuring news because for people that follow the
Speaker 1: Catholic Church staunchly and it is really a part of
Speaker 1: their life, a huge part of their life, then just
Speaker 1: tell us already. If they haven't figured out, then let's go.
Speaker 1: But I think the other religions, even though they haven't
Speaker 1: been quite as vocal about it, I'm sure they're thinking
Speaker 1: about it too, because otherwise the danger is people look
Speaker 1: back to the Middle Ages and and I guess the Renaissance,
Speaker 1: the rise of of modern science, and people remember, of
Speaker 1: course the Titanic clash between science and religion, and in
Speaker 1: one sense, religion got left behind, and and I suppose
Speaker 1: they want to be a bit smarter about it this
Speaker 1: time around. So I'm sure they're all thinking about it.
Speaker 1: But you know, it goes back to this point, what
Speaker 1: are we actually going to be dealing with? Are we
Speaker 1: going to be dealing with picking up a message through
Speaker 1: a radio telescope from a civilization that might have gone extinct.
Speaker 1: Are we going to be talking about face to face contact.
Speaker 1: If we are, is it going to be friendly or not?
Speaker 1: And so the reaction is going to depend on that.
Speaker 1: And yes, of course, I guess if we had literally
Speaker 1: an alien invasion, people would panic and run for the hills.
Speaker 1: But if we have someone extending the hand or tentacle
Speaker 1: of friendship, then the tentacle of friendship, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I love it. Go on. I just like, I'm like
Speaker 1: so into this. The other point is that we may
Speaker 1: well be dealing with machine intelligence, of course, and that
Speaker 1: raises a whole bunch of other questions about you mentioned
Speaker 1: right at the beginning, almost like the existential view that
Speaker 1: you'd have to take you if we encountered machine intelligence,
Speaker 1: we'd very quickly have to get into a real, big,
Speaker 1: deep debate about the nature of consciousness. Well, I think
Speaker 1: we're kind of in that state already as well. I
Speaker 1: think it's happening with right now. I have like seven
Speaker 1: screens and then they have screens, and I can like,
Speaker 1: we are basically holograms of each other in real time.
Speaker 1: And I don't even know where you are right now,
Speaker 1: but we are speaking face to face and we're reacting
Speaker 1: to each other. And that still blows my mind. So
Speaker 1: I think that the consciousness of like an Alexa or
Speaker 1: whoever that the lady is on your phone, I forget
Speaker 1: her name, sorry lady, but the theory. Yes, so Sirie
Speaker 1: like that is something that we refer to as a
Speaker 1: humans name, and the information is all coming from this
Speaker 1: tiny little thing that goes with me everywhere and listens
Speaker 1: to everything I'm doing. We're kind of already there. We're
Speaker 1: kind of already like part robot. If you take your
Speaker 1: phone everywhere and sleep next to it and it helps
Speaker 1: track your sleep cycles and tells you wouldn't go and
Speaker 1: where to go and how to get there. We're kind
Speaker 1: of already in going in that direction. Yes, And then
Speaker 1: of course it raises those deep philosophical questions like is
Speaker 1: it and could it ever be self aware as as
Speaker 1: a machine as artificial intelligence or is it just going
Speaker 1: to do a very good simulation of being self aware?
Speaker 1: And firstly, how could we ever know for sure whether
Speaker 1: it was whether it was truly sentient or just doing
Speaker 1: a very good job of looking like it. And secondly
Speaker 1: would it matter? And there are people getting into these
Speaker 1: whole issues of well, at what point do we have
Speaker 1: to sit down and say do we give some rights
Speaker 1: to machine intelligence computer programs AI? Because what about their
Speaker 1: right to exist? If even if we create them, what
Speaker 1: about then their right to exist independently? So it's it's
Speaker 1: really deep heavy. Oh my god, that's that's tripping my
Speaker 1: brain out. I think you just like jumbled my brain.
Speaker 1: So the artificial intelligence would have its own rights to
Speaker 1: exist because we created it. So we're also playing guard
Speaker 1: a little as well. Yes, and if we can't be
Speaker 1: sure that it's not truly self aware, maybe not now,
Speaker 1: but maybe in five ten years time. But some would
Speaker 1: say maybe now. If we can't truly be sure, shouldn't
Speaker 1: we er on the side of caution and assuming that
Speaker 1: it is alive before we blithely decide to delete the program? Yes,
Speaker 1: I guess that brings into question how do you define
Speaker 1: if something is truly alive or not? Well, the great
Speaker 1: computer pioneer Alan Turing had something called the Turing test,
Speaker 1: which was basically hooking a person up to a computer
Speaker 1: and another person and you wouldn't know who was in
Speaker 1: which room. And Turing said, if you get to the
Speaker 1: point where you can't tell the difference, that's crossed the line. Now,
Speaker 1: I don't know whether that's the way it will be
Speaker 1: done or not. But and then then there's the classic
Speaker 1: old sci fi story about the scientists who build the
Speaker 1: the really really powerful computer and they switch it on
Speaker 1: and they all scrambled to ask the first question, and
Speaker 1: one of the scientists said, my question is is there
Speaker 1: a God? And the computer says yes there is now
Speaker 1: Oh damn sassy computer, but also true. So crazy. I like,
Speaker 1: I know this movie came out when I was like five,
Speaker 1: and I should have seen it, and it's like a
Speaker 1: landmark movie about this. But I just saw the Matrix
Speaker 1: and I have to say, being in quarantine, I don't
Speaker 1: know if it was just that, but with all this
Speaker 1: stuff going on where I'm just slowly starting to hear
Speaker 1: about extraterrestrial things and life being a simulation, I'm just like, existentially,
Speaker 1: my hands are up and I'm like, someone just like,
Speaker 1: let me know what's real, because all of this is
Speaker 1: making me feel like I'm on a bad acid trip. Well,
Speaker 1: simulation theory is is absolutely quite um topical at the moment,
Speaker 1: and it links in with I mean, some people think
Speaker 1: they I think the seminal paper date back some years
Speaker 1: and it's it says, yeah, this is all a simulation,
Speaker 1: and we're ancestor simulations because at some point um any
Speaker 1: civilization that sufficiently advanced would want to create and bring
Speaker 1: back to life it's it's ancestors, and statistically there's a
Speaker 1: bigger chance that you are an ancestor program than an
Speaker 1: actual individual. I know I am an ancestor to who,
Speaker 1: to somebody who has created this simulation. We just think
Speaker 1: that we're living now and and actually we're not. There
Speaker 1: are There are quite a lot of papers out there
Speaker 1: about this simulation theory, but another just bringing it back
Speaker 1: to UFOs and aliens. Of course, there's a related idea
Speaker 1: that planet Earth and maybe the universe as we perceive it,
Speaker 1: is itself just an extraterrestrial simulation that we are someone's science.
Speaker 1: Hold on, wait, so the whole thing is a simulation
Speaker 1: created by an extraterrestrial So we're like, do you know
Speaker 1: what sea monkeys are? Yes? Those like little you get
Speaker 1: like a bag and you put it, So we like
Speaker 1: might just be like sea monkeys. Yeah, and do extras.
Speaker 1: We might be somebody's I mean, maybe it's organic, maybe
Speaker 1: we are someone's chemistry experiment. But if we're if it's
Speaker 1: simulation theory, then maybe we're someone's computer experiment. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is all pretty much unknowable, except people then say
Speaker 1: that when we begin to outgrow the program, or when
Speaker 1: we begin to twig that yeah, maybe this is simulation
Speaker 1: in a sense. That's the point where they don't bother
Speaker 1: hiding it anymore, and strange things start to happen in
Speaker 1: the matrix. So some really weird things would happen, like
Speaker 1: the whole world would suddenly shut down, and people wouldn't
Speaker 1: go to work, and things that you would have said
Speaker 1: would be crazier a couple of years ago suddenly start
Speaker 1: to happen. And yet I ask myself, are we not
Speaker 1: now living in that very world? Well, then what do
Speaker 1: you do? Once you just like see it and it
Speaker 1: blows your mind and you're like, okay, I'm freaked out.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening. And then, like you said
Speaker 1: this earlier, but like you've still got to go to work,
Speaker 1: you still got to go to school. But then I'm like,
Speaker 1: why funck work, Fuck school. I'm going to the beach
Speaker 1: and I'm going to be naked. Go for it. I
Speaker 1: think that's the thing. Live your life. I mean, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: be good to other people and follow the laws and things,
Speaker 1: but have people. I mean, look, whether it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: does it, You know, it doesn't whether this is true
Speaker 1: or not. If you go through life, and you learn
Speaker 1: along the way, you do some good things for other people,
Speaker 1: but also, let's not forget this, you have some fun yourself,
Speaker 1: then that's not a bad philosophy, whether we're in a
Speaker 1: simulation or whether all this is completely wrong and reality
Speaker 1: is just boring, all true preach. I want to join
Speaker 1: your cult. Love that. I think it's so important to
Speaker 1: have fun, Like life can get just so heavy and depressing,
Speaker 1: and I think one of the most important things is
Speaker 1: to play like an animal, like the animals do, and
Speaker 1: not forget that we're animals and always engage in playing.
Speaker 1: So I basically have devoted the entirety of my life
Speaker 1: to facilitating dance parties because I feel like that's a
Speaker 1: very acceptable human way to play and have fun. So
Speaker 1: what you're saying resonates deep inside me, like dedicated my
Speaker 1: entire life to it. My only question is if I
Speaker 1: am a simulation of a simulation, and I'm a sea
Speaker 1: monkey of some alien somewhere, then why does my body
Speaker 1: hurt so much? Well, there are always going to be
Speaker 1: glitches and matrix. The glitch on my whole side, my
Speaker 1: whole life side, is a giant glitch. I think, Well,
Speaker 1: it's either that or it's a kind of realism program.
Speaker 1: I think it was the classic sci fi author Frank
Speaker 1: Herbert who said real boats rock in one of his books,
Speaker 1: one of his Yes, oh is it like from doing
Speaker 1: the movie The Lynchian. I love that movie. It's so good, Um,
Speaker 1: go on, so real boats rock. So it's like you
Speaker 1: have to take the good with the bad in the
Speaker 1: simulation or it's not going to feel real. Yes. Um.
Speaker 1: And that brings us in a sense to well, the pandemic.
Speaker 1: I know that's not what we can't talk about. Whatever
Speaker 1: you want. I just wanted to talk to you because
Speaker 1: you seem interesting. Well, but it goes, it goes back
Speaker 1: to the point. There's a saying that I've heard a
Speaker 1: lot right now, you've probably heard it too. A lot
Speaker 1: of people are saying after the Black Death came the Renaissance,
Speaker 1: and after the Spanish Flu came the Roaring twenties. So
Speaker 1: it's like, in a sense, it's it's that philosophical concept
Speaker 1: that to to appreciate the good, you have to experience
Speaker 1: and and move through the bad. So the light like
Speaker 1: it's always darkest before the dawn. It's also a saying
Speaker 1: that comes to my it's actually right. I wrote that
Speaker 1: down last night. I had a dream about that. Um,
Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out if it really is
Speaker 1: always the darkest right before the dawn. I don't know
Speaker 1: from like a scientific standpoint if that's true. Probably not,
Speaker 1: But I think the principle holds that that we are
Speaker 1: at the moment going through dark days. But when everything
Speaker 1: comes back, we will be literally in the new roaring twenties,
Speaker 1: and all the things that you mentioned dance and music
Speaker 1: and and fun will come to the four in a
Speaker 1: way that perhaps before we'd forgotten. We we've forgotten how
Speaker 1: good these things were, and I think we're going to
Speaker 1: rediscover aspects of our lives that that we took for
Speaker 1: a million percent. You took the words out of my mouth.
Speaker 1: There are so many things that I personally get to experience,
Speaker 1: and I always loved it, but I do think there's
Speaker 1: an element when it gets taken away from you. You
Speaker 1: realize what you had so fast and how much you
Speaker 1: love it so much. And I cannot wait to go
Speaker 1: and like hug and kiss people. Oh my god, I
Speaker 1: want to fly on an airplane again. Holy sh it.
Speaker 1: I used to fly almost every single day for a
Speaker 1: couple of of my life, like I would be on
Speaker 1: a different flight every single day. So when that happens
Speaker 1: to you seven hundred times in a row, by the
Speaker 1: seven hundred flight, you forget how fucking amazing that is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you're when you're sitting up there and somebody gives
Speaker 1: you that little flutive whatever, I did not drink it.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm on a plane every day. I
Speaker 1: can't drink the champagne every day. I'm drinking the damn
Speaker 1: champagne every single time I get on a plane here
Speaker 1: on out. Sorry everybody, but I'm going to be that
Speaker 1: lady me too. All aircraft are like all airports. They're
Speaker 1: on international time, where it's flight o'clock somewhere, and absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean I've only I was like you, I used to,
Speaker 1: probably not quite as much, but I used to before
Speaker 1: the pandemic. Probably fly, I don't know, you often once
Speaker 1: a week somewhere, a conference, a convention, filming, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: Um I've seen. I mean, in the last few months,
Speaker 1: I've probably only taken half a dozen flights. And of
Speaker 1: course it's not the it's not the same, but it
Speaker 1: will come back, inevitably, it will come back. I love
Speaker 1: hearing you say that, and we just met, but I'm
Speaker 1: going to believe you. I'm gonna choose to believe that
Speaker 1: your simulation is telling me the truth. It will come back.
Speaker 1: It has to come back. Everything is cyclical and everything
Speaker 1: the constant. Everything seems to be changed. So we're going
Speaker 1: through a change and hopefully cyclically it will come back
Speaker 1: to some roaring future ship. That's really amazing. But I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm totally digressed from my question. So wait, there's something
Speaker 1: I gonna ask you. Um, So, okay, I think I
Speaker 1: kind of already asked you this. As the Ministry of
Speaker 1: Defenses head of the UFO project, what would like a
Speaker 1: day look like, like did you get to touch and
Speaker 1: see and go to sits and like did you get
Speaker 1: to see the really like crazy ship. Sadly, we didn't
Speaker 1: have as some of the conspiracy theories think we do.
Speaker 1: We didn't I promise you have a crashed UFO hidden
Speaker 1: away in an Air Force hangar somewhere. So most of
Speaker 1: the time, sadly, it wasn't quite like you see on
Speaker 1: the X Files, like running around in the the dark
Speaker 1: warehouse with the flashlights and all that. It was much more.
Speaker 1: You get a report that comes in, you speak to
Speaker 1: the witness, usually just over the phone you have because
Speaker 1: this is government, because it's a bureaucracy. Of course you've
Speaker 1: got a form for it. I know it sounds crazy,
Speaker 1: but we inherited the old United States Air Force Project
Speaker 1: Bluebook forms. We used the same templates, so we would
Speaker 1: get all them, all the details, and then basically the
Speaker 1: typical day it would then be doing an investigation. So
Speaker 1: you would try and you would have literally a big
Speaker 1: map of the United Kingdom on our office wall, and
Speaker 1: you would go to that map and say right where
Speaker 1: and when did this person see it? And you would
Speaker 1: see what was going on, and you would have all
Speaker 1: the information about all the military exercises and the civilian
Speaker 1: flight paths and weather balloon launches and the satellite tracks.
Speaker 1: And then we would speak to the radar people and
Speaker 1: we would say check the radar tapes, what have you got?
Speaker 1: Then if we had photos and videos, we would go
Speaker 1: to the intelligence community imagery analysis people and say what
Speaker 1: do you make of this? And then we we would
Speaker 1: we have like for example, the Ballistic Missile Early Warning
Speaker 1: Center that has space tracking radar are so that gives
Speaker 1: you another aspect. So the day to day job. It's
Speaker 1: it's a great cliche. There was no typical day, but
Speaker 1: but the sightings would be the most important thing. So
Speaker 1: it's like process of elimination, of taking out all of
Speaker 1: the factors that could be mistakenly a UFO. So you're
Speaker 1: like weeding out all the things that could be okay.
Speaker 1: So have you ever gotten to the point where you
Speaker 1: like get a photo or a video, you weed out everything.
Speaker 1: You talk to the radar and there's just something that
Speaker 1: like nobody can make like can makeup Like they're just like, okay,
Speaker 1: this this we don't know how to explain this. Yes,
Speaker 1: a handful of cases each year, but you're right, it
Speaker 1: is like a process of elimination, and it happens exactly
Speaker 1: the way you said. You go through the sightings, you
Speaker 1: do the investigations, and at the end of it all
Speaker 1: you go, oh, yeah, that these ones were aircraft, these
Speaker 1: ones were satellites, these ones were fire lanterns, these ones
Speaker 1: were meat yours. And then you are left at the
Speaker 1: end with this this small percentage, this this small number
Speaker 1: each year that you think, well that that is whatever
Speaker 1: you call it. It's the core phenomenon, the ones that
Speaker 1: you can't explain but in a way, that's that's the
Speaker 1: ultimate irony of government UFO research. Unless we did get
Speaker 1: our hands literally on a crash, sorcer or something. You're
Speaker 1: left with a situation where I can tell you what
Speaker 1: the UFOs weren't, but I can't tell you what they are.
Speaker 1: So so all I can say is at the end
Speaker 1: of it is, yeah, we've got a few percentage points
Speaker 1: of these each year that we can't explain. I can't
Speaker 1: prove to you that they're alien, but but neither can
Speaker 1: I rule out that possibility. And those are the cases,
Speaker 1: for example, where the pilots report speeds and maneuvers and
Speaker 1: accelerations that we can't match, validated on radar, filmed on
Speaker 1: forward looking in for red camera, But you can't say
Speaker 1: with a hundred degrees certainty it's alien. All you can
Speaker 1: say is we can okay. So in that moment when
Speaker 1: you have some just crazy thing, you've ruled out everything,
Speaker 1: and you're like, we have video or footage, we don't
Speaker 1: know what it is. Do countries communicate with each other
Speaker 1: and be like, is this you guys? Or does it
Speaker 1: not work like that? I would just think as a
Speaker 1: as the world that we live in it's obviously very fragmented,
Speaker 1: and we like to be like us versus them, and
Speaker 1: we do that a lot as people. It seems like
Speaker 1: this would be an arena that would really be useful
Speaker 1: for coming together to I now, if this is any
Speaker 1: of our stuff, or if it's me maybe like an alien.
Speaker 1: People don't talk to each other about this internationally as
Speaker 1: much as they should. A lot of people say that
Speaker 1: the United Nations should be taking a role. They don't
Speaker 1: particularly want it, but yeah, you would think you would
Speaker 1: hope that the first thing you would do is is say,
Speaker 1: if it's the United States, say hey, over the border
Speaker 1: in Canada, do you know about this? Was was any
Speaker 1: of this you? Or or even if not, what about
Speaker 1: your radar systems? Can have you picked up something we might?
Speaker 1: There's not sharing them people that people don't and the problem, well,
Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense to me. Well, I think
Speaker 1: the problem is that so many countries in bed their
Speaker 1: UFO programs in the military and specifically in military intelligence,
Speaker 1: and it's just if you're going to put these programs
Speaker 1: in the most secret part of government you can find.
Speaker 1: In one sense, it's no surprise that they don't talk
Speaker 1: to each other because it's hardwired into these people not
Speaker 1: to exchange information. I mean, without getting into a whole
Speaker 1: another conspiracy, but one of the big whatever you think
Speaker 1: about it, one of the big things that happened on
Speaker 1: nine eleven or other didn't happen on nine eleven, is
Speaker 1: that c I, A, and FBI didn't talk to each
Speaker 1: other and they still don't as much as they don't
Speaker 1: speak to each other. That's like, is that the part
Speaker 1: of the conspiracy theory or is that fact? They're like
Speaker 1: known fact, it's fact. No, all intelligence organizations see themselves
Speaker 1: to some extent as being in competition with each other
Speaker 1: for resources, for influence, for prestige, and all. So just
Speaker 1: the inherently secretive nature of this highly classified, deeply compartmentalized
Speaker 1: whether it's UFOs or whether it's anything, they don't talk
Speaker 1: to each other as much as they should, and so
Speaker 1: it is a failing. But it's not a failing that's
Speaker 1: unique to UFOs. They see what you mean, at least
Speaker 1: with allies, you would you would think that certainly. And
Speaker 1: there are mechanisms, there are organizations and agreements, for example,
Speaker 1: the Five Eyes when when you get that state, but
Speaker 1: it's it's like a grouping of nations. So, for example,
Speaker 1: there is information sharing between the United States and the
Speaker 1: United Kingdom and some other countries to like Australia, New Zealand, Canada.
Speaker 1: People people do talk to each other, but even within
Speaker 1: those organizations and those agreements, they still don't talk as
Speaker 1: much as they should. That's just you have me thinking
Speaker 1: about all all the things. I think you broke my
Speaker 1: brain when you're talking about us in our universe being
Speaker 1: part of uh maybe an alien thing. I think I
Speaker 1: think you officially broke my brain. I thought quarantine had
Speaker 1: already broken it, but I think you did this conversation officially.
Speaker 1: But what I'm hearing is past resentments and being dishonest
Speaker 1: and secretive seems like it's the nature of mankind, but
Speaker 1: also might be keeping us back from being able to
Speaker 1: excel and expand our consciousness. That's my big theory of
Speaker 1: our conversation. That's what my I would say from our conversation. Well,
Speaker 1: it goes back to what Hyama said said in terms
Speaker 1: of there's a galactic federation out there, but but humanity
Speaker 1: isn't yet ready to join it, and he didn't elaborate
Speaker 1: on what exactly that means. But if there is a
Speaker 1: galactic federation. A very interesting question is what's the trigger
Speaker 1: point for getting asked to join it? Um Star Trek
Speaker 1: the Star Trek franchise have their trigger point, and that
Speaker 1: trigger point is when a civilization develops a warp drive technology.
Speaker 1: So it's a technological threshold that you have to cross
Speaker 1: to to get that invitation to join the club. But
Speaker 1: maybe there are issues of morality as well. So for example,
Speaker 1: I don't know the day on which no child dies
Speaker 1: of starvation while others throw away food. Maybe that's the
Speaker 1: day that the comes. We have a lot to sort out,
Speaker 1: I think. But now that I'm thinking about, like just
Speaker 1: tell us, but maybe we do have a lot to
Speaker 1: sort up before we can actually wrap our brains around
Speaker 1: other forms of life, because on the chance that they
Speaker 1: are conscious and evolved and moral, we still have a
Speaker 1: lot of fixing of our own set of morals to
Speaker 1: do here. Like, as you just said, people are starving
Speaker 1: to death, and there's just foundational racism and everything, and
Speaker 1: everyone is just so afraid to talk about stuff like
Speaker 1: you're saying, even just between nations to share information because
Speaker 1: you want the power, the prestige or the money or
Speaker 1: whatever it is. I think once we all kind of realize,
Speaker 1: like we're all human, so we've all fucked up. Okay,
Speaker 1: so there's that. But once you just share, then maybe
Speaker 1: there's a little bit less of an need to be
Speaker 1: better than or feel less than, like validated or invalidated.
Speaker 1: One could just be. And I think if we could
Speaker 1: be as a species, maybe then we will be able
Speaker 1: to coexist with another species or extraterrestrial life or whatever.
Speaker 1: It is. Just that's my like hippie nature punk dream
Speaker 1: as I just wish everybody would realize we're all the same,
Speaker 1: because once you tell your secret and I tell my secret,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you did that crazy thing? Why did
Speaker 1: this crazy fucked up thing? And then kind of like
Speaker 1: I feel so much better. No, I get that. And
Speaker 1: you know, one other point with with this is maybe
Speaker 1: there comes a time when just talking about about this
Speaker 1: threshold that to really advanced civilizations in the universe, the
Speaker 1: newly emerging ones like us might be the last interesting
Speaker 1: thing for them. So the moment they do come down
Speaker 1: and land on the White House lawn is moment that
Speaker 1: our cultural uniqueness as a planet disappears, and maybe they
Speaker 1: want to hang onto that for a while at least
Speaker 1: until at least until we do get out there ourselves,
Speaker 1: when when you can't keep a lid on it anymore.
Speaker 1: But for the time being, maybe they want to see
Speaker 1: how things developed, to see what cultural uniqueness will come
Speaker 1: up with. And you know, one other point on UFO secrecy,
Speaker 1: even among allies, even between friendly nations, I think, if
Speaker 1: there is extraterrestrial technology out there, let's not kid ourselves,
Speaker 1: the nation that first acquires it is going to be
Speaker 1: top dog. So that's a that's a big thing, and
Speaker 1: that might explain some of the secrecy. But so why
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm not going to name any names here,
Speaker 1: but I feel like there are particular leaders that would
Speaker 1: like be scrambling to be the first one to do that,
Speaker 1: even if they don't know anything, at least claim it,
Speaker 1: because then it would give you this legacy, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: the legacy. Yeah, you get to write your name in history,
Speaker 1: which is one of the Actually that's one of the
Speaker 1: skeptical arguments of course about UFOs, because if if we
Speaker 1: did know this with a hundred degrees certainty, with some
Speaker 1: of the presidents we've had, you would think that even
Speaker 1: just on their last day as the ultimate monkey ranch.
Speaker 1: They would say, by the way, before I go, there's
Speaker 1: aliens for sure. I'm surprised that didn't happen very recently. Ah, well,
Speaker 1: that's all very mind boggling. There was a forest I
Speaker 1: was reading about that you have written a book about.
Speaker 1: I don't want to but for the name what Okay
Speaker 1: Randolsham Forest and that was it seems like the Kay
Speaker 1: equivalent to Roswell here where there's like a crush site,
Speaker 1: a lot of interest around it. I personally am obsessed
Speaker 1: with Area fifty one and Roswell been there many times?
Speaker 1: Have you gone there and have you like? Was there
Speaker 1: any debris? That's what I have to know, if there's
Speaker 1: any debris. I know there were trees that were smashed,
Speaker 1: but I have to know if there was any body,
Speaker 1: fluid metal, anything at all? Or am I not allowed
Speaker 1: to know? Is this classified information? No? You you you
Speaker 1: are allowed to know. The sad news is that well, firstly,
Speaker 1: this happened some years before I joined the Ministry of Defense,
Speaker 1: so it was one of my predecessors who did the
Speaker 1: investigation on this. But it wasn't Actually it was a
Speaker 1: landing and not a crash, so there wasn't any debris.
Speaker 1: But what there was, and this is confirmed in a
Speaker 1: file on the incident that the Ministry Defense is now
Speaker 1: declass scified and released what there was. As well as
Speaker 1: those burn marks and scorch marks on the trees um
Speaker 1: there there were levels of radioactivity that seemed significantly higher
Speaker 1: than the average background levels by by a factor of
Speaker 1: about six times six six to seven times higher. So
Speaker 1: there was physical trace evidence and radar too, But again, sadly,
Speaker 1: we didn't quite get that smoking gun. But I've been there.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, it happened after my time,
Speaker 1: but I've been there since, mainly to do TV shows
Speaker 1: and things. And I've also been to Roswell and and
Speaker 1: to area fifty one, well not to it, right up
Speaker 1: to the line, right up to the line. Fascinating places
Speaker 1: and I think anyone that gets the chance should go
Speaker 1: to these places. But you there's not necessarily much to
Speaker 1: see any more. I'm so sad. I want to know
Speaker 1: where these things are kept. I just want to know
Speaker 1: if anyone has seen a piece of a spaceship. Some
Speaker 1: people say that this debris exists, and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of talk at the moment about so called meta materials,
Speaker 1: materials with very strange properties, different quisotopic ratios, different chemical
Speaker 1: structures um. At the moment, we've got a lot of
Speaker 1: talk and allegations, we haven't yet physically got our hands
Speaker 1: on things. But it goes back to what the Senate
Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee said that they want from Director of National Intelligence.
Speaker 1: The first thing they want is to know within the
Speaker 1: US government, look, people who knows what, who's got files
Speaker 1: on this? What you all doing, and let's see what
Speaker 1: we already know about this and if part of that
Speaker 1: debris bring it on. Yes, I wish everybody would just
Speaker 1: call a truce for like twenty four hours and be like, okay,
Speaker 1: truce on everything. Let's just take a time out and
Speaker 1: share the information we have on UFOs and then obviously
Speaker 1: tell me absolutely can tell me there is okay. I
Speaker 1: have like a couple of real stupid questions because we're
Speaker 1: like almost out of time. Feel free to be like, no,
Speaker 1: but there is one I kind of want to ask you.
Speaker 1: But this is just like a silly question, is there?
Speaker 1: Do you have a like a favorite conspiracy theory and
Speaker 1: you have a least favorite one that like drives you nuts.
Speaker 1: I think my least favorite is that we didn't get
Speaker 1: to the Moon, because I've met at least one of
Speaker 1: the astronauts who did go there, edgar Mitchell, and all
Speaker 1: these people I think are very brave, truthful, honorable people,
Speaker 1: and the skills and the skills of the scientists and
Speaker 1: the engineers. I think it's disparaging to those people there
Speaker 1: there ability their bravery to say that we didn't go,
Speaker 1: and I think there's a whole bunch of really really
Speaker 1: good evidence to say that we did, including the moon
Speaker 1: rocks which are different in terms of isotopic ratios and things,
Speaker 1: and heck, they even left Basically, they left a giant
Speaker 1: mirror on the Moon so that you can fire a
Speaker 1: laser at it and measure the distance that you know,
Speaker 1: because of the time it takes the light to come back,
Speaker 1: but we love to mirror on the Moon to shoot
Speaker 1: lasers at. Yes, it's it's called the did you this?
Speaker 1: I think it's technically called the Laser Reflector Experiment or
Speaker 1: something like that, but it is. It is basically a mirror.
Speaker 1: We left a mirror on the Moon, and like pretty
Speaker 1: observatories that you know, anyone that's got a sufficiently powerful
Speaker 1: and accurate laser can fire it. And obviously it wouldn't
Speaker 1: come back if we didn't go up there and leave
Speaker 1: the thing there on the first place. That's my least favorite.
Speaker 1: What are we shooting lasers adding for? Firstly, one of
Speaker 1: the big reasons is to measure down to the sort
Speaker 1: of nano millimeter the distance between the Earth and the Moon,
Speaker 1: and that distance is changing ever so slightly every every
Speaker 1: year the Moon drifts a little bit further away from
Speaker 1: the Earth, and scientists like to measure those sorts of things.
Speaker 1: So that's that's one reason. But if I'm being honest,
Speaker 1: I honestly think the other reason then it's just to
Speaker 1: prove that they went there in the first place so
Speaker 1: that you can do this experiment. Well, I mean, a
Speaker 1: lot of people give these astronauts ship and like have
Speaker 1: made a whole thing out of it. So maybe it's
Speaker 1: good they left their little laser mirror up there because
Speaker 1: I didn't know about it. I'm gonna tell everybody I
Speaker 1: know about the mirror, the laser mirror, and I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know that I particularly have a favorite. Um
Speaker 1: maybe it's I don't know, lizards, Um, just lizards, not
Speaker 1: lizard people, just lizards. Oh man, Okay, do you have
Speaker 1: like a wildest conspiracy theory that you ever heard, and
Speaker 1: you're like, wow, that is such crazy bullshit. Yes, the
Speaker 1: false flag alien invasion theory. I don't know this one. Okay.
Speaker 1: This is the theory that there aren't any aliens, or
Speaker 1: that if there are, the government is going to make
Speaker 1: some fake aliens. And basically what they're gonna do is
Speaker 1: through a combination of hologram technology and Hollywood special effects.
Speaker 1: They aren't going to fake an alien invasion so that
Speaker 1: they can unite the world under a new World Order
Speaker 1: to fight this threat that in reality doesn't really exist.
Speaker 1: It's all a con So the false flag alien invasion, Wow,
Speaker 1: I would have never thought of that, because people have
Speaker 1: a lot of time. I just think we should all
Speaker 1: be friends and stop killing each other and share a
Speaker 1: UFO information. So then maybe the aliens can come and
Speaker 1: we can hang out with them. That would be good
Speaker 1: party on fuck. Yes, that is how we are ending
Speaker 1: this interview party on Intergalactically. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: coming on here. It is so fascinating to talk with you.
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to get your email or something
Speaker 1: because I have like five million more questions. Thank you
Speaker 1: everybody listening um, if you would like to shamelessly promote yourself,
Speaker 1: go ahead. Where do people find you? How did they
Speaker 1: find you? What do they I have a website, Nick
Speaker 1: Pope dot net that links to my social media, but
Speaker 1: the one I use most, particularly for fast last stories,
Speaker 1: is Twitter, where I am Nick Pope, m O d
Speaker 1: okay perfect Follow him. Thank you for listening, keep on
Speaker 1: creeping on. Thank you, Nick, It's been a pleasure. Thank you.