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Speaker 1: Actually it was a landing and not a crash, so

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Speaker 1: there wasn't any debris. But what there was, and this

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Speaker 1: is confirmed in a file on the incident that the

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Speaker 1: Ministry Defense has now declassified and released what there was.

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Speaker 1: As well as those burn marks and scorch marks on

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Speaker 1: the trees, there were levels of radioactivity that seemed significantly

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Speaker 1: higher than the average background levels. Welcome back to Catch

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Speaker 1: in the Creepies Today, we welcome Nick Pope. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for coming on my podcast. Hi, Hi there.

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Speaker 1: Now I don't know how to pronounce this correctly, so

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Speaker 1: I'm going to just stab at it a you apologist, yes,

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Speaker 1: although I guess one who did this not as a

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Speaker 1: hobby but as a government job. So I don't really

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Speaker 1: call myself a uthologist as opposed to government official who

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Speaker 1: happened to be lucky enough to be given this amazing

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Speaker 1: real life X files gig. But that sounds so I

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Speaker 1: just like have so many questions, how did you get

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Speaker 1: into that? Is it something you're interested in or did

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Speaker 1: it volunteer? Lap? It completely fell in my lap. I

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Speaker 1: was already in the Ministry of Defense and just the

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Speaker 1: vacancy happened to come up at the exact moment that

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Speaker 1: I was due for a move, so it was just

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Speaker 1: right place, right time. But I had no previous interest

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Speaker 1: in this subject, no background knowledge, no particular beliefs. It

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Speaker 1: was just I know, this sounds crazy. It was just

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Speaker 1: another government job. Are there other crazy government jobs we

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Speaker 1: don't know about that? Are like people that studying ghosts

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Speaker 1: in the government. Well, they were certainly in the US

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Speaker 1: government for example, they had a program also looking at UFOs,

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Speaker 1: as we did in the UK, but also they did

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Speaker 1: get into so called remote viewing, which is just a

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Speaker 1: kind of fancy scientific term for psychic stuff. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: they have been looking at this. And just recently there

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Speaker 1: was an article I saw it on the BBC News

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Speaker 1: website talking about things like super soldiers and saying that

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Speaker 1: a lot of these things that people have been talking

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Speaker 1: about in terms of sci fi somewhere people are working

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Speaker 1: on this, Like robot soldiers were a bit of both.

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Speaker 1: Part of it is absolutely combat robots. And there's a

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Speaker 1: big debate going on right now about whether there's always

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Speaker 1: going to be a human in the decision making chain,

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Speaker 1: particularly if it comes to lethal force. US and UK

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Speaker 1: governments and some others have said, yeah, there should be

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Speaker 1: other governments are a little less constrained by those sorts

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Speaker 1: of legal and ethical and more. All. That's so scary. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but part of it, part of this whole super soldier thing,

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Speaker 1: is human augmentation. And again there was a big article

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Speaker 1: making some allegations about what what China might be doing

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Speaker 1: in that regions. So so there's a lot going on

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Speaker 1: right now that's so terrifying. Okay, So back to the

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Speaker 1: that you were in the Ministry of Defense in the

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Speaker 1: UK and you're doing some other job and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden a job opens up studying the extraterrestrial activity

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Speaker 1: or UFOs or we we would just say UFOs or.

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Speaker 1: In fact, we coined the phrase. We didn't invent it,

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Speaker 1: but we popularized it U a P. Unidentified aerial phenomena.

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Speaker 1: And that's now if you look at what's happening recently

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Speaker 1: with all these stories that I'm sure you've seen about

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Speaker 1: the U. S. Navy jets chain seeing the phenomenon, they

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Speaker 1: always used the phrase U a P. So it's the

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Speaker 1: term that we use in government, in military and the

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Speaker 1: intelligence community. And we to speak to your point about

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Speaker 1: extraterrestrial we didn't go in saying well, we didn't really

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Speaker 1: go in with any preconceived ideas. We just said, if

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Speaker 1: there's something in our air space, we need to know

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Speaker 1: what it is because it's automatically a defense a national

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Speaker 1: security issue. It might be the Russians, it might be

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Speaker 1: our own technology, some deep black program, or it might

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Speaker 1: be extraterrestrial. So we went in with an open mind

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Speaker 1: and just said, let's do the investigations and see what

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Speaker 1: the data show us. So you go in, are you excited,

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Speaker 1: are you skeptical, are you nervous, or you're just kind

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Speaker 1: of ready for whatever? A little bit of all of that.

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Speaker 1: I think, Um, I'm skeptical, absolutely, but I can't help

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Speaker 1: but be a cited. It's one of the great sayings

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Speaker 1: that this subject that the skeptics have to be right

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Speaker 1: every day, but the believers only have to be right once.

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Speaker 1: And we're really in the ultimate game changing territory. So

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Speaker 1: I went in never knowing is the phone going to ring?

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Speaker 1: Am I going to get the case? The thing that's

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Speaker 1: going to break this wide open? How? How is it

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Speaker 1: going to go down? Oh? My god? How long did

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Speaker 1: you serve at the Ministry at Defense? Twenty one years

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Speaker 1: in all, but only three years on their UFO program

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Speaker 1: because you get moved around every few years, either on

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Speaker 1: level transfer or promotions. So I did a lot of

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Speaker 1: different things in my twenty one year career. But I

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Speaker 1: think even now looking back, UFOs has got to be

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Speaker 1: the most interesting and fun in its way and most profound.

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Speaker 1: I mean to me, as soon as I think of

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Speaker 1: extraterrestrial life, then I think of the point of life

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Speaker 1: and the universe and spirituality and who are we and

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Speaker 1: why are we here? It just goes so existential so

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Speaker 1: quickly once you bring in extraterrestrial conversations. And I think

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Speaker 1: that for me, I've seen some weird things, but like

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Speaker 1: you said, like I'm not a total conspiracy theory person.

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Speaker 1: I realized that it could have been someone testing something

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Speaker 1: or just something I didn't really understand. But I did

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Speaker 1: see fireballs in the sky and they went away and

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Speaker 1: then they came back in a different formation. And ever

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Speaker 1: since I saw it, I've just been completely fascinated with

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Speaker 1: what we actually know, and what governments know, and what

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Speaker 1: the science behind it is. I think there's a quote

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Speaker 1: from me that really stuck out. He said, I strongly

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Speaker 1: suspect there's life elsewhere in the cosmos, because from observational data,

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Speaker 1: the laws of physics and the laws of chemistry appeared

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Speaker 1: to be constant throughout the observable universe. So and less

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Speaker 1: you believe there's something almost literally magical about Earth, the

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Speaker 1: same factors that gave rise to life here are likely

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Speaker 1: to have arisen elsewhere. So for me, that's like summing

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Speaker 1: it all up. If you believe in science, then it

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Speaker 1: makes scientific end in the laws of chemistry and physics

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Speaker 1: for there to be life elsewhere. I think so, yes,

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Speaker 1: And there was a scientific study just done last year,

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Speaker 1: I believe, and it came out with this statistic and

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Speaker 1: it sounded like a low number because they said, we

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Speaker 1: estimate there might be thirty six civilizations in our Milky

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Speaker 1: Way galaxy. And that doesn't sound like very many until

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Speaker 1: you do the math and realize, and I did. I

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Speaker 1: got out of my calculator and I thought, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: Given the number of galaxies they estimate there are in

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Speaker 1: the universe, that means there might be seventy two trillions

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Speaker 1: civilization's out there. So it's just mind blowing. So you

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Speaker 1: can't really say whether or not it would be a

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Speaker 1: positive or a negative experience with an extraterrestrial because you

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Speaker 1: don't really know who you're dealing with. I would assume

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Speaker 1: it would be like any creature where there are some

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Speaker 1: that are a little nicer than others. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a spectrum. Yes, if people often

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Speaker 1: say to me, what do you think the aliens alike?

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Speaker 1: As if there is just one other civilization in the universe,

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Speaker 1: And like I just said, with those statistics, chances are

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Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of these people out there, and

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Speaker 1: in which case your point is absolutely the way it

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Speaker 1: would be. Chances are there's a spectrum, and you know

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Speaker 1: statistically you're usually in the middle of it. So you

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Speaker 1: walk into a room, for example, you are usually not

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Speaker 1: going to be the tallest person or the shortest, or

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Speaker 1: you will be in the middle. So same with the civilizations.

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Speaker 1: They're will be many, many more advanced than us, and

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Speaker 1: others less advanced and morally too. Simply put, there'll be

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Speaker 1: good aliens and bad aliens and naughty aliens, as there's

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Speaker 1: probably all different kinds of aliens. I never even thought

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Speaker 1: about it like that because there's this quintessential picture of

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Speaker 1: the alien with the head and the gray the gray aliens.

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Speaker 1: But there was a guy who lived in my mom's basement,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna full disclosure. He was a little cookie.

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Speaker 1: He's a cookie man. But his name is Carl, and

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Speaker 1: he told me that JFK was assassinated because he was

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Speaker 1: going to tell the world about extra trustrial life. They

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Speaker 1: gave us they as in the extraterrestrials, gave us velcro

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Speaker 1: and microwaves and on and on and on. So to me,

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Speaker 1: it's like a little bit confusing because there were some

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Speaker 1: points Carl made that were pretty impressive. But then I

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Speaker 1: don't want to dip my toe into conspiracy theory culture either,

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Speaker 1: because I think that's dangerous. Yeah, I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: all conspiracy theories are wrong. I mean I think history

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Speaker 1: shows us some turn out to be right. And in

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Speaker 1: relation to UFOs, yeah, I've heard those sorts of stories

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Speaker 1: about JFK. And I've heard heard a version of that

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Speaker 1: theory that brings in Marilyn Monroe as well and says

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Speaker 1: that because they were just tell me, because I want

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Speaker 1: to know, I have to know, Just tell me. Well,

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Speaker 1: he talk so, and the theory goes JFK. Let's let's

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Speaker 1: slip to Maryland that yeah, it's all true. They are aliens.

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Speaker 1: She was going to disclose that, so they bumped her off,

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Speaker 1: and then JFK said I'm going to disclose it, and

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Speaker 1: they bumped him off. I don't believe that. I think

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Speaker 1: it's a little bit, a little bit though, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a little bit far out there. But

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Speaker 1: I suppose it wouldn't be the first time that a

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Speaker 1: long shot has come in. But I prefer with my

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Speaker 1: government background, I prefer to ground myself in the sorts

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Speaker 1: of things that are unfolding. Now. I mentioned those US

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Speaker 1: Navy videos, but where you've got pilots coming out with this,

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Speaker 1: where you've got the radar evidence, where you've got classified

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Speaker 1: briefings in Congress, Yes, yeah, as has been announced very recently.

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Speaker 1: Senate Intelligence Committee have asked for a report on this

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Speaker 1: from Director of National Intelligence. So, whatever you think about

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Speaker 1: some of the more far out stories, all this is

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Speaker 1: happening here and now. As a matter of on the

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Speaker 1: record fact, do you think that we're in the age

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Speaker 1: of potential soon disclosure of this information or do you

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Speaker 1: think every every ten years people think it's coming and

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Speaker 1: it just doesn't actually get disclosed from the government. I

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Speaker 1: think we are further forward than we've ever been, and

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Speaker 1: I think this Senate Intelligence Committee initiative is going to

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Speaker 1: certainly move things forward again. But whether we cross the line.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the UFO community have this concept of disclosure

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Speaker 1: with a big D and in their mind's eye, it's

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Speaker 1: the President going on the evening news at primetime saying,

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Speaker 1: my fellow Americans, people of the world, we're not alone.

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Speaker 1: My take is it might not quite go down that way.

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Speaker 1: It might be a little bit more subtle, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's what we're seeing now. But there are congressional

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Speaker 1: briefings going on behind the scenes. People like Marco Rubio

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Speaker 1: have gone on the record to say, look, I'd rather

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Speaker 1: this was Aliens, because if it's Russia or China, we're

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Speaker 1: in big trouble. They've made a quantum leap that is

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Speaker 1: so interesting. And I did see Trumpet let a few

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Speaker 1: things slide that we're just questionable comments about, you know,

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Speaker 1: extraterrestrials or UFOs and his obsession with the Space Force.

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Speaker 1: I can't help but think, like, why would you be

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Speaker 1: so obsessed if there wasn't something else here? And um,

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Speaker 1: the former Israeli space security chief, I am a shed

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Speaker 1: I read what he had said about how there's we've

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Speaker 1: been in contact with extraterrestrials and we have people on

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Speaker 1: Mars and an underground bunker that are have relationships with extraterrestrials. Like,

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Speaker 1: how legit do you think that is? Well, that story

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Speaker 1: really struck me as being far out. Having said that,

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Speaker 1: the guy is who he says he is. He did

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Speaker 1: what he said he did in the Israeli space program,

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Speaker 1: So he's certainly someone who if if this sort of

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Speaker 1: thing is out there, as he says he is, someone

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Speaker 1: who would know. Um, I think it's there. There are

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Speaker 1: some pieces of that particular puzzle that we don't yet have.

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Speaker 1: But you know, if any of this was happening in isolation,

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Speaker 1: I think you could write one or two of these

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Speaker 1: things off. But but it's more than that. In UM.

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Speaker 1: For example, the Harvard professor Avy Lobe who spoke about

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Speaker 1: this strange shaped object that came through our solar system

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Speaker 1: recently Omua Mua and then a former CIA director, John Brannan,

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Speaker 1: he gave her an interview where he started suddenly talking

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Speaker 1: about something that might constitute a different form of life.

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Speaker 1: And when all these people from whether they're CIA people

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Speaker 1: or space scientists or professors, who government officials, intelligence community

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Speaker 1: people who've who whoever they are. When they all come

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Speaker 1: out with broadly the same sort of thing, all pointing

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Speaker 1: the same direction, it does make me wonder whether there

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Speaker 1: isn't some sort of orchestrated campaign here too. Well, you

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Speaker 1: do you tell them that this, I'll tell them that,

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Speaker 1: and then before we know it will be over that

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Speaker 1: line and we'll have had disclosure. Well, and I feel

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Speaker 1: like like you're saying, maybe disclosure isn't a moment in time.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it is the information slowly coming at us to

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Speaker 1: the point where it almost becomes normalized. Because that's what

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Speaker 1: I've found in my life is I started, you know,

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Speaker 1: I saw something of the New York Times. Then it's

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Speaker 1: on the Post, and then it's on TMZ. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of just like everywhere information about extraterrestrials. I spoke to

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Speaker 1: fellow singer Demiel Vado about it, and it seemingly people

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Speaker 1: are kind of unphased. And maybe that's the point, is

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Speaker 1: to become used to that kind of information. It's not

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Speaker 1: so crazy, it's not just for crazy people, And like,

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Speaker 1: wha couldus that we're going through the disclosure and we

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Speaker 1: don't even realize that we're in it. I think that's right.

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Speaker 1: And you know, three years ago you mentioned the New

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Speaker 1: York Times. Three years ago, just over three years now,

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Speaker 1: they ran a big article where they exposed these Navy

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Speaker 1: videos that that we've mentioned, and also they exposed the

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Speaker 1: existence of a secret program called a TIP Advanced Aerospace

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Speaker 1: Threat Identification Program. And the debate about what they did

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Speaker 1: and didn't do continues to this day, and the Department

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Speaker 1: of Defense have flip flopped over it quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: But there's no getting away from the fact that if

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Speaker 1: you'd have asked the US government three years ago, um,

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Speaker 1: what's your line on this, their answer would have been

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Speaker 1: nobody's interested and nobody's investigating. And now look where we are,

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Speaker 1: Navy pilots, the videos, the congressional briefings, Director of National

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Speaker 1: Intelligence drawing up a report on this. It's like it's

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Speaker 1: it's the whole thing has flipped a hundred and eighty degrees,

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Speaker 1: come out of the the fringe and into the mainstream

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Speaker 1: in a way that I think would have been inconceivable

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Speaker 1: three three years ago. Well, it's a lot of people

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Speaker 1: that have a lot to lose, especially the respect that

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Speaker 1: I would assume it would take so many years of

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Speaker 1: hard work and a determined sense of wanting to work

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Speaker 1: for the government and be of service and help make

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Speaker 1: the country stable and good. So to me, like I

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Speaker 1: sing songs, I can sing about aliens, nobody would bat

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Speaker 1: an eyelash. But there are a lot of people talking

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Speaker 1: right now have a lot to lose in terms of credibility,

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Speaker 1: and I can't help but wonder why would they be

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Speaker 1: sacrificing their credibility unless it was really real. Absolutely. One

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Speaker 1: of the people who has spoken out recently is a

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Speaker 1: retired intelligence official called Luis Alizondo, and he was so

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Speaker 1: highly principled about this that that he resigned from from

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Speaker 1: the government over this issue. And he said, look, I'm

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Speaker 1: not a whistleblower. I took an oath and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to keep that, you know, very seriously and not divulge

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Speaker 1: classified information. But within you know, there's a line, and

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Speaker 1: he went cross it. Neither will I. But within that

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Speaker 1: Louis Alizondo and some other people too who have been

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Speaker 1: involved in these sorts of programs, some directly, some indirectly,

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Speaker 1: have said, look, what they want to do is kick

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Speaker 1: start a conversation with the American people about this, and

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Speaker 1: indeed not just the American people, the whole world, people worldwide.

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Speaker 1: This is global. Yeah, it certainly is. It makes me

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Speaker 1: wonder when will they deem us ready? And I feel like, also,

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Speaker 1: what is the reaction going to be? Do you think

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Speaker 1: people will feel at peace? Are just pure panic or

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Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of both. Do you think it's

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Speaker 1: really gonna disrupt the sense of self spiritually? Because that's

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Speaker 1: my theory, is that it's gonna really disrupt kind of

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Speaker 1: like biblical and religious like religious beliefs. If there's this

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Speaker 1: whole world and other people and maybe we're not the

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Speaker 1: center of the universe and we're not the only ones.

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Speaker 1: And to me, that's my theory of theory of why

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Speaker 1: this has been kept kind of hush hush and is

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Speaker 1: fringe and it's kind of a little crazy if you

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Speaker 1: talk about it. I think there's a whole a lot

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Speaker 1: of different things there too to unpack. I mean, certainly,

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Speaker 1: one sense, every aspect of our lives will change, politics, religion, economics,

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Speaker 1: science and technology, and one's personal paradigm and worldview. I mean,

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Speaker 1: just everyone's view of who they are and how they

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Speaker 1: fit in to the world. And if we get this

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Speaker 1: to the wider cause marks. On the other hand, the

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Speaker 1: flip side is people still need to go to work

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Speaker 1: and go to school, maybe virtually these days, but you

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Speaker 1: know um in person too, and and life has to

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Speaker 1: go on. It has to so in one way, we

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Speaker 1: just have to incorporate this new reality into our lives.

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Speaker 1: And it's funny you mentioned the church, needless to say,

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Speaker 1: and religion. I've been to a couple of scientific conferences

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Speaker 1: on this. It goes I think without saying that. Almost

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Speaker 1: the biggest row was about how religions are going to

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Speaker 1: incorporate this into their doctrine. But finally enough they are

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Speaker 1: thinking about it already. And the Catholic Church already has

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Speaker 1: a line on this. So what is it? Is Jesus alien?

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Speaker 1: Is Jesus an alien? Well maybe, but there their line,

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Speaker 1: their line, I'm serious. Their lying is that there is

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Speaker 1: no doctrinal objection to the existence of extraterrestrial life because

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Speaker 1: human beings may place no creative limits upon God, and

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Speaker 1: therefore it becomes God's call as to whether to make

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Speaker 1: just Earth or whether to make trillions of other civilizations.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that it won't be controversial. It will

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Speaker 1: be well, that's going to be great. I feel like

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Speaker 1: that's really reassuring news because for people that follow the

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Speaker 1: Catholic Church staunchly and it is really a part of

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Speaker 1: their life, a huge part of their life, then just

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Speaker 1: tell us already. If they haven't figured out, then let's go.

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Speaker 1: But I think the other religions, even though they haven't

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Speaker 1: been quite as vocal about it, I'm sure they're thinking

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Speaker 1: about it too, because otherwise the danger is people look

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Speaker 1: back to the Middle Ages and and I guess the Renaissance,

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Speaker 1: the rise of of modern science, and people remember, of

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Speaker 1: course the Titanic clash between science and religion, and in

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Speaker 1: one sense, religion got left behind, and and I suppose

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Speaker 1: they want to be a bit smarter about it this

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Speaker 1: time around. So I'm sure they're all thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it goes back to this point, what

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Speaker 1: are we actually going to be dealing with? Are we

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Speaker 1: going to be dealing with picking up a message through

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Speaker 1: a radio telescope from a civilization that might have gone extinct.

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Speaker 1: Are we going to be talking about face to face contact.

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Speaker 1: If we are, is it going to be friendly or not?

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Speaker 1: And so the reaction is going to depend on that.

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Speaker 1: And yes, of course, I guess if we had literally

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Speaker 1: an alien invasion, people would panic and run for the hills.

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Speaker 1: But if we have someone extending the hand or tentacle

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Speaker 1: of friendship, then the tentacle of friendship, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I love it. Go on. I just like, I'm like

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Speaker 1: so into this. The other point is that we may

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Speaker 1: well be dealing with machine intelligence, of course, and that

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Speaker 1: raises a whole bunch of other questions about you mentioned

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Speaker 1: right at the beginning, almost like the existential view that

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Speaker 1: you'd have to take you if we encountered machine intelligence,

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Speaker 1: we'd very quickly have to get into a real, big,

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Speaker 1: deep debate about the nature of consciousness. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: we're kind of in that state already as well. I

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Speaker 1: think it's happening with right now. I have like seven

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Speaker 1: screens and then they have screens, and I can like,

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Speaker 1: we are basically holograms of each other in real time.

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Speaker 1: And I don't even know where you are right now,

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Speaker 1: but we are speaking face to face and we're reacting

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Speaker 1: to each other. And that still blows my mind. So

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Speaker 1: I think that the consciousness of like an Alexa or

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Speaker 1: whoever that the lady is on your phone, I forget

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Speaker 1: her name, sorry lady, but the theory. Yes, so Sirie

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Speaker 1: like that is something that we refer to as a

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Speaker 1: humans name, and the information is all coming from this

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Speaker 1: tiny little thing that goes with me everywhere and listens

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Speaker 1: to everything I'm doing. We're kind of already there. We're

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Speaker 1: kind of already like part robot. If you take your

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Speaker 1: phone everywhere and sleep next to it and it helps

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Speaker 1: track your sleep cycles and tells you wouldn't go and

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Speaker 1: where to go and how to get there. We're kind

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Speaker 1: of already in going in that direction. Yes, And then

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Speaker 1: of course it raises those deep philosophical questions like is

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Speaker 1: it and could it ever be self aware as as

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Speaker 1: a machine as artificial intelligence or is it just going

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Speaker 1: to do a very good simulation of being self aware?

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Speaker 1: And firstly, how could we ever know for sure whether

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Speaker 1: it was whether it was truly sentient or just doing

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Speaker 1: a very good job of looking like it. And secondly

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Speaker 1: would it matter? And there are people getting into these

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Speaker 1: whole issues of well, at what point do we have

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Speaker 1: to sit down and say do we give some rights

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Speaker 1: to machine intelligence computer programs AI? Because what about their

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Speaker 1: right to exist? If even if we create them, what

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Speaker 1: about then their right to exist independently? So it's it's

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Speaker 1: really deep heavy. Oh my god, that's that's tripping my

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Speaker 1: brain out. I think you just like jumbled my brain.

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Speaker 1: So the artificial intelligence would have its own rights to

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Speaker 1: exist because we created it. So we're also playing guard

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Speaker 1: a little as well. Yes, and if we can't be

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Speaker 1: sure that it's not truly self aware, maybe not now,

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Speaker 1: but maybe in five ten years time. But some would

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Speaker 1: say maybe now. If we can't truly be sure, shouldn't

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Speaker 1: we er on the side of caution and assuming that

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Speaker 1: it is alive before we blithely decide to delete the program? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I guess that brings into question how do you define

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Speaker 1: if something is truly alive or not? Well, the great

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Speaker 1: computer pioneer Alan Turing had something called the Turing test,

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Speaker 1: which was basically hooking a person up to a computer

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Speaker 1: and another person and you wouldn't know who was in

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Speaker 1: which room. And Turing said, if you get to the

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Speaker 1: point where you can't tell the difference, that's crossed the line. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't know whether that's the way it will be

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Speaker 1: done or not. But and then then there's the classic

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Speaker 1: old sci fi story about the scientists who build the

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Speaker 1: the really really powerful computer and they switch it on

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Speaker 1: and they all scrambled to ask the first question, and

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Speaker 1: one of the scientists said, my question is is there

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Speaker 1: a God? And the computer says yes there is now

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Speaker 1: Oh damn sassy computer, but also true. So crazy. I like,

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Speaker 1: I know this movie came out when I was like five,

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Speaker 1: and I should have seen it, and it's like a

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00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: landmark movie about this. But I just saw the Matrix

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Speaker 1: and I have to say, being in quarantine, I don't

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00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: know if it was just that, but with all this

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Speaker 1: stuff going on where I'm just slowly starting to hear

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Speaker 1: about extraterrestrial things and life being a simulation, I'm just like, existentially,

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Speaker 1: my hands are up and I'm like, someone just like,

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Speaker 1: let me know what's real, because all of this is

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Speaker 1: making me feel like I'm on a bad acid trip. Well,

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00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: simulation theory is is absolutely quite um topical at the moment,

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00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: and it links in with I mean, some people think

429
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: they I think the seminal paper date back some years

430
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: and it's it says, yeah, this is all a simulation,

431
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: and we're ancestor simulations because at some point um any

432
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: civilization that sufficiently advanced would want to create and bring

433
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: back to life it's it's ancestors, and statistically there's a

434
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: bigger chance that you are an ancestor program than an

435
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: actual individual. I know I am an ancestor to who,

436
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: to somebody who has created this simulation. We just think

437
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: that we're living now and and actually we're not. There

438
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: are There are quite a lot of papers out there

439
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: about this simulation theory, but another just bringing it back

440
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: to UFOs and aliens. Of course, there's a related idea

441
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: that planet Earth and maybe the universe as we perceive it,

442
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: is itself just an extraterrestrial simulation that we are someone's science.

443
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: Hold on, wait, so the whole thing is a simulation

444
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: created by an extraterrestrial So we're like, do you know

445
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: what sea monkeys are? Yes? Those like little you get

446
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: like a bag and you put it, So we like

447
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: might just be like sea monkeys. Yeah, and do extras.

448
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: We might be somebody's I mean, maybe it's organic, maybe

449
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: we are someone's chemistry experiment. But if we're if it's

450
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: simulation theory, then maybe we're someone's computer experiment. I mean,

451
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: this is all pretty much unknowable, except people then say

452
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: that when we begin to outgrow the program, or when

453
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: we begin to twig that yeah, maybe this is simulation

454
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: in a sense. That's the point where they don't bother

455
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: hiding it anymore, and strange things start to happen in

456
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: the matrix. So some really weird things would happen, like

457
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: the whole world would suddenly shut down, and people wouldn't

458
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: go to work, and things that you would have said

459
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: would be crazier a couple of years ago suddenly start

460
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: to happen. And yet I ask myself, are we not

461
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: now living in that very world? Well, then what do

462
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: you do? Once you just like see it and it

463
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: blows your mind and you're like, okay, I'm freaked out.

464
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening. And then, like you said

465
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: this earlier, but like you've still got to go to work,

466
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: you still got to go to school. But then I'm like,

467
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: why funck work, Fuck school. I'm going to the beach

468
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: and I'm going to be naked. Go for it. I

469
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: think that's the thing. Live your life. I mean, yeah, sure,

470
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: be good to other people and follow the laws and things,

471
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: but have people. I mean, look, whether it doesn't matter,

472
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: does it, You know, it doesn't whether this is true

473
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: or not. If you go through life, and you learn

474
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: along the way, you do some good things for other people,

475
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: but also, let's not forget this, you have some fun yourself,

476
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: then that's not a bad philosophy, whether we're in a

477
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: simulation or whether all this is completely wrong and reality

478
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: is just boring, all true preach. I want to join

479
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: your cult. Love that. I think it's so important to

480
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: have fun, Like life can get just so heavy and depressing,

481
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: and I think one of the most important things is

482
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: to play like an animal, like the animals do, and

483
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: not forget that we're animals and always engage in playing.

484
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: So I basically have devoted the entirety of my life

485
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: to facilitating dance parties because I feel like that's a

486
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: very acceptable human way to play and have fun. So

487
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: what you're saying resonates deep inside me, like dedicated my

488
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: entire life to it. My only question is if I

489
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: am a simulation of a simulation, and I'm a sea

490
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,959
Speaker 1: monkey of some alien somewhere, then why does my body

491
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: hurt so much? Well, there are always going to be

492
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: glitches and matrix. The glitch on my whole side, my

493
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: whole life side, is a giant glitch. I think, Well,

494
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: it's either that or it's a kind of realism program.

495
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: I think it was the classic sci fi author Frank

496
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: Herbert who said real boats rock in one of his books,

497
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: one of his Yes, oh is it like from doing

498
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: the movie The Lynchian. I love that movie. It's so good, Um,

499
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: go on, so real boats rock. So it's like you

500
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: have to take the good with the bad in the

501
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: simulation or it's not going to feel real. Yes. Um.

502
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: And that brings us in a sense to well, the pandemic.

503
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: I know that's not what we can't talk about. Whatever

504
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: you want. I just wanted to talk to you because

505
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: you seem interesting. Well, but it goes, it goes back

506
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: to the point. There's a saying that I've heard a

507
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: lot right now, you've probably heard it too. A lot

508
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: of people are saying after the Black Death came the Renaissance,

509
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: and after the Spanish Flu came the Roaring twenties. So

510
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: it's like, in a sense, it's it's that philosophical concept

511
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: that to to appreciate the good, you have to experience

512
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: and and move through the bad. So the light like

513
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: it's always darkest before the dawn. It's also a saying

514
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: that comes to my it's actually right. I wrote that

515
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: down last night. I had a dream about that. Um,

516
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out if it really is

517
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: always the darkest right before the dawn. I don't know

518
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: from like a scientific standpoint if that's true. Probably not,

519
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: But I think the principle holds that that we are

520
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: at the moment going through dark days. But when everything

521
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: comes back, we will be literally in the new roaring twenties,

522
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: and all the things that you mentioned dance and music

523
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: and and fun will come to the four in a

524
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: way that perhaps before we'd forgotten. We we've forgotten how

525
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: good these things were, and I think we're going to

526
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: rediscover aspects of our lives that that we took for

527
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: a million percent. You took the words out of my mouth.

528
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: There are so many things that I personally get to experience,

529
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: and I always loved it, but I do think there's

530
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: an element when it gets taken away from you. You

531
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: realize what you had so fast and how much you

532
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: love it so much. And I cannot wait to go

533
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: and like hug and kiss people. Oh my god, I

534
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: want to fly on an airplane again. Holy sh it.

535
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: I used to fly almost every single day for a

536
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: couple of of my life, like I would be on

537
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: a different flight every single day. So when that happens

538
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: to you seven hundred times in a row, by the

539
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: seven hundred flight, you forget how fucking amazing that is. Yeah,

540
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: when you're when you're sitting up there and somebody gives

541
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: you that little flutive whatever, I did not drink it.

542
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm on a plane every day. I

543
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: can't drink the champagne every day. I'm drinking the damn

544
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: champagne every single time I get on a plane here

545
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,439
Speaker 1: on out. Sorry everybody, but I'm going to be that

546
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: lady me too. All aircraft are like all airports. They're

547
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: on international time, where it's flight o'clock somewhere, and absolutely,

548
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: I mean I've only I was like you, I used to,

549
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: probably not quite as much, but I used to before

550
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: the pandemic. Probably fly, I don't know, you often once

551
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: a week somewhere, a conference, a convention, filming, whatever it is.

552
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: Um I've seen. I mean, in the last few months,

553
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: I've probably only taken half a dozen flights. And of

554
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: course it's not the it's not the same, but it

555
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 1: will come back, inevitably, it will come back. I love

556
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: hearing you say that, and we just met, but I'm

557
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: going to believe you. I'm gonna choose to believe that

558
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: your simulation is telling me the truth. It will come back.

559
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: It has to come back. Everything is cyclical and everything

560
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: the constant. Everything seems to be changed. So we're going

561
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: through a change and hopefully cyclically it will come back

562
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: to some roaring future ship. That's really amazing. But I'm like,

563
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm totally digressed from my question. So wait, there's something

564
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: I gonna ask you. Um, So, okay, I think I

565
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: kind of already asked you this. As the Ministry of

566
00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: Defenses head of the UFO project, what would like a

567
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: day look like, like did you get to touch and

568
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: see and go to sits and like did you get

569
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: to see the really like crazy ship. Sadly, we didn't

570
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: have as some of the conspiracy theories think we do.

571
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: We didn't I promise you have a crashed UFO hidden

572
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: away in an Air Force hangar somewhere. So most of

573
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: the time, sadly, it wasn't quite like you see on

574
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: the X Files, like running around in the the dark

575
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,479
Speaker 1: warehouse with the flashlights and all that. It was much more.

576
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: You get a report that comes in, you speak to

577
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: the witness, usually just over the phone you have because

578
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: this is government, because it's a bureaucracy. Of course you've

579
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: got a form for it. I know it sounds crazy,

580
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: but we inherited the old United States Air Force Project

581
00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: Bluebook forms. We used the same templates, so we would

582
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: get all them, all the details, and then basically the

583
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: typical day it would then be doing an investigation. So

584
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: you would try and you would have literally a big

585
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: map of the United Kingdom on our office wall, and

586
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 1: you would go to that map and say right where

587
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: and when did this person see it? And you would

588
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 1: see what was going on, and you would have all

589
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: the information about all the military exercises and the civilian

590
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: flight paths and weather balloon launches and the satellite tracks.

591
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: And then we would speak to the radar people and

592
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: we would say check the radar tapes, what have you got?

593
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: Then if we had photos and videos, we would go

594
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: to the intelligence community imagery analysis people and say what

595
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: do you make of this? And then we we would

596
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: we have like for example, the Ballistic Missile Early Warning

597
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: Center that has space tracking radar are so that gives

598
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: you another aspect. So the day to day job. It's

599
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: it's a great cliche. There was no typical day, but

600
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: but the sightings would be the most important thing. So

601
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: it's like process of elimination, of taking out all of

602
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 1: the factors that could be mistakenly a UFO. So you're

603
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: like weeding out all the things that could be okay.

604
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: So have you ever gotten to the point where you

605
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: like get a photo or a video, you weed out everything.

606
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: You talk to the radar and there's just something that

607
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: like nobody can make like can makeup Like they're just like, okay,

608
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: this this we don't know how to explain this. Yes,

609
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: a handful of cases each year, but you're right, it

610
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: is like a process of elimination, and it happens exactly

611
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: the way you said. You go through the sightings, you

612
00:39:58,120 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: do the investigations, and at the end of it all

613
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: you go, oh, yeah, that these ones were aircraft, these

614
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: ones were satellites, these ones were fire lanterns, these ones

615
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: were meat yours. And then you are left at the

616
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: end with this this small percentage, this this small number

617
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: each year that you think, well that that is whatever

618
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: you call it. It's the core phenomenon, the ones that

619
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: you can't explain but in a way, that's that's the

620
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 1: ultimate irony of government UFO research. Unless we did get

621
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: our hands literally on a crash, sorcer or something. You're

622
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: left with a situation where I can tell you what

623
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: the UFOs weren't, but I can't tell you what they are.

624
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: So so all I can say is at the end

625
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: of it is, yeah, we've got a few percentage points

626
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: of these each year that we can't explain. I can't

627
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 1: prove to you that they're alien, but but neither can

628
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 1: I rule out that possibility. And those are the cases,

629
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: for example, where the pilots report speeds and maneuvers and

630
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: accelerations that we can't match, validated on radar, filmed on

631
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: forward looking in for red camera, But you can't say

632
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: with a hundred degrees certainty it's alien. All you can

633
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: say is we can okay. So in that moment when

634
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 1: you have some just crazy thing, you've ruled out everything,

635
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: and you're like, we have video or footage, we don't

636
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: know what it is. Do countries communicate with each other

637
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: and be like, is this you guys? Or does it

638
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: not work like that? I would just think as a

639
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: as the world that we live in it's obviously very fragmented,

640
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: and we like to be like us versus them, and

641
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: we do that a lot as people. It seems like

642
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: this would be an arena that would really be useful

643
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 1: for coming together to I now, if this is any

644
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: of our stuff, or if it's me maybe like an alien.

645
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: People don't talk to each other about this internationally as

646
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: much as they should. A lot of people say that

647
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: the United Nations should be taking a role. They don't

648
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: particularly want it, but yeah, you would think you would

649
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: hope that the first thing you would do is is say,

650
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: if it's the United States, say hey, over the border

651
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: in Canada, do you know about this? Was was any

652
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 1: of this you? Or or even if not, what about

653
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: your radar systems? Can have you picked up something we might?

654
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: There's not sharing them people that people don't and the problem, well,

655
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense to me. Well, I think

656
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: the problem is that so many countries in bed their

657
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: UFO programs in the military and specifically in military intelligence,

658
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,720
Speaker 1: and it's just if you're going to put these programs

659
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: in the most secret part of government you can find.

660
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,919
Speaker 1: In one sense, it's no surprise that they don't talk

661
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 1: to each other because it's hardwired into these people not

662
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 1: to exchange information. I mean, without getting into a whole

663
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: another conspiracy, but one of the big whatever you think

664
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: about it, one of the big things that happened on

665
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: nine eleven or other didn't happen on nine eleven, is

666
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: that c I, A, and FBI didn't talk to each

667
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: other and they still don't as much as they don't

668
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: speak to each other. That's like, is that the part

669
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: of the conspiracy theory or is that fact? They're like

670
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: known fact, it's fact. No, all intelligence organizations see themselves

671
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 1: to some extent as being in competition with each other

672
00:43:53,920 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: for resources, for influence, for prestige, and all. So just

673
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: the inherently secretive nature of this highly classified, deeply compartmentalized

674
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: whether it's UFOs or whether it's anything, they don't talk

675
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: to each other as much as they should, and so

676
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: it is a failing. But it's not a failing that's

677
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: unique to UFOs. They see what you mean, at least

678
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: with allies, you would you would think that certainly. And

679
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: there are mechanisms, there are organizations and agreements, for example,

680
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: the Five Eyes when when you get that state, but

681
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: it's it's like a grouping of nations. So, for example,

682
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: there is information sharing between the United States and the

683
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: United Kingdom and some other countries to like Australia, New Zealand, Canada.

684
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: People people do talk to each other, but even within

685
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: those organizations and those agreements, they still don't talk as

686
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: much as they should. That's just you have me thinking

687
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: about all all the things. I think you broke my

688
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: brain when you're talking about us in our universe being

689
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: part of uh maybe an alien thing. I think I

690
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: think you officially broke my brain. I thought quarantine had

691
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: already broken it, but I think you did this conversation officially.

692
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: But what I'm hearing is past resentments and being dishonest

693
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: and secretive seems like it's the nature of mankind, but

694
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: also might be keeping us back from being able to

695
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: excel and expand our consciousness. That's my big theory of

696
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,919
Speaker 1: our conversation. That's what my I would say from our conversation. Well,

697
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,720
Speaker 1: it goes back to what Hyama said said in terms

698
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: of there's a galactic federation out there, but but humanity

699
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: isn't yet ready to join it, and he didn't elaborate

700
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 1: on what exactly that means. But if there is a

701
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 1: galactic federation. A very interesting question is what's the trigger

702
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: point for getting asked to join it? Um Star Trek

703
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: the Star Trek franchise have their trigger point, and that

704
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: trigger point is when a civilization develops a warp drive technology.

705
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: So it's a technological threshold that you have to cross

706
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 1: to to get that invitation to join the club. But

707
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: maybe there are issues of morality as well. So for example,

708
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: I don't know the day on which no child dies

709
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: of starvation while others throw away food. Maybe that's the

710
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: day that the comes. We have a lot to sort out,

711
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: I think. But now that I'm thinking about, like just

712
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: tell us, but maybe we do have a lot to

713
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: sort up before we can actually wrap our brains around

714
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 1: other forms of life, because on the chance that they

715
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 1: are conscious and evolved and moral, we still have a

716
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 1: lot of fixing of our own set of morals to

717
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: do here. Like, as you just said, people are starving

718
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,919
Speaker 1: to death, and there's just foundational racism and everything, and

719
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: everyone is just so afraid to talk about stuff like

720
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 1: you're saying, even just between nations to share information because

721
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: you want the power, the prestige or the money or

722
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 1: whatever it is. I think once we all kind of realize,

723
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: like we're all human, so we've all fucked up. Okay,

724
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: so there's that. But once you just share, then maybe

725
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: there's a little bit less of an need to be

726
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: better than or feel less than, like validated or invalidated.

727
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: One could just be. And I think if we could

728
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: be as a species, maybe then we will be able

729
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: to coexist with another species or extraterrestrial life or whatever.

730
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: It is. Just that's my like hippie nature punk dream

731
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,439
Speaker 1: as I just wish everybody would realize we're all the same,

732
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 1: because once you tell your secret and I tell my secret,

733
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you did that crazy thing? Why did

734
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: this crazy fucked up thing? And then kind of like

735
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 1: I feel so much better. No, I get that. And

736
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: you know, one other point with with this is maybe

737
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: there comes a time when just talking about about this

738
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: threshold that to really advanced civilizations in the universe, the

739
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: newly emerging ones like us might be the last interesting

740
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: thing for them. So the moment they do come down

741
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: and land on the White House lawn is moment that

742
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: our cultural uniqueness as a planet disappears, and maybe they

743
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: want to hang onto that for a while at least

744
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 1: until at least until we do get out there ourselves,

745
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: when when you can't keep a lid on it anymore.

746
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 1: But for the time being, maybe they want to see

747
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: how things developed, to see what cultural uniqueness will come

748
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 1: up with. And you know, one other point on UFO secrecy,

749
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: even among allies, even between friendly nations, I think, if

750
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: there is extraterrestrial technology out there, let's not kid ourselves,

751
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 1: the nation that first acquires it is going to be

752
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: top dog. So that's a that's a big thing, and

753
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: that might explain some of the secrecy. But so why

754
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm not going to name any names here,

755
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: but I feel like there are particular leaders that would

756
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: like be scrambling to be the first one to do that,

757
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: even if they don't know anything, at least claim it,

758
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,439
Speaker 1: because then it would give you this legacy, Oh my god,

759
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: the legacy. Yeah, you get to write your name in history,

760
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 1: which is one of the Actually that's one of the

761
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: skeptical arguments of course about UFOs, because if if we

762
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: did know this with a hundred degrees certainty, with some

763
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:29,240
Speaker 1: of the presidents we've had, you would think that even

764
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: just on their last day as the ultimate monkey ranch.

765
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: They would say, by the way, before I go, there's

766
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: aliens for sure. I'm surprised that didn't happen very recently. Ah, well,

767
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: that's all very mind boggling. There was a forest I

768
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: was reading about that you have written a book about.

769
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 1: I don't want to but for the name what Okay

770
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 1: Randolsham Forest and that was it seems like the Kay

771
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: equivalent to Roswell here where there's like a crush site,

772
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: a lot of interest around it. I personally am obsessed

773
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: with Area fifty one and Roswell been there many times?

774
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 1: Have you gone there and have you like? Was there

775
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: any debris? That's what I have to know, if there's

776
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: any debris. I know there were trees that were smashed,

777
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: but I have to know if there was any body,

778
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: fluid metal, anything at all? Or am I not allowed

779
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 1: to know? Is this classified information? No? You you you

780
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 1: are allowed to know. The sad news is that well, firstly,

781
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: this happened some years before I joined the Ministry of Defense,

782
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 1: so it was one of my predecessors who did the

783
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: investigation on this. But it wasn't Actually it was a

784
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 1: landing and not a crash, so there wasn't any debris.

785
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: But what there was, and this is confirmed in a

786
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: file on the incident that the Ministry Defense is now

787
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: declass scified and released what there was. As well as

788
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: those burn marks and scorch marks on the trees um

789
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 1: there there were levels of radioactivity that seemed significantly higher

790
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 1: than the average background levels by by a factor of

791
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: about six times six six to seven times higher. So

792
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: there was physical trace evidence and radar too, But again, sadly,

793
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: we didn't quite get that smoking gun. But I've been there.

794
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, it happened after my time,

795
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: but I've been there since, mainly to do TV shows

796
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: and things. And I've also been to Roswell and and

797
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: to area fifty one, well not to it, right up

798
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: to the line, right up to the line. Fascinating places

799
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 1: and I think anyone that gets the chance should go

800
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: to these places. But you there's not necessarily much to

801
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: see any more. I'm so sad. I want to know

802
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: where these things are kept. I just want to know

803
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: if anyone has seen a piece of a spaceship. Some

804
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: people say that this debris exists, and there's a lot

805
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,399
Speaker 1: of talk at the moment about so called meta materials,

806
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:30,280
Speaker 1: materials with very strange properties, different quisotopic ratios, different chemical

807
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:36,439
Speaker 1: structures um. At the moment, we've got a lot of

808
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:41,760
Speaker 1: talk and allegations, we haven't yet physically got our hands

809
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 1: on things. But it goes back to what the Senate

810
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee said that they want from Director of National Intelligence.

811
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: The first thing they want is to know within the

812
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 1: US government, look, people who knows what, who's got files

813
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 1: on this? What you all doing, and let's see what

814
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: we already know about this and if part of that

815
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: debris bring it on. Yes, I wish everybody would just

816
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: call a truce for like twenty four hours and be like, okay,

817
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: truce on everything. Let's just take a time out and

818
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: share the information we have on UFOs and then obviously

819
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: tell me absolutely can tell me there is okay. I

820
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 1: have like a couple of real stupid questions because we're

821
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: like almost out of time. Feel free to be like, no,

822
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: but there is one I kind of want to ask you.

823
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: But this is just like a silly question, is there?

824
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: Do you have a like a favorite conspiracy theory and

825
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,720
Speaker 1: you have a least favorite one that like drives you nuts.

826
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,919
Speaker 1: I think my least favorite is that we didn't get

827
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: to the Moon, because I've met at least one of

828
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,439
Speaker 1: the astronauts who did go there, edgar Mitchell, and all

829
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: these people I think are very brave, truthful, honorable people,

830
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 1: and the skills and the skills of the scientists and

831
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: the engineers. I think it's disparaging to those people there

832
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: there ability their bravery to say that we didn't go,

833
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: and I think there's a whole bunch of really really

834
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: good evidence to say that we did, including the moon

835
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 1: rocks which are different in terms of isotopic ratios and things,

836
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,800
Speaker 1: and heck, they even left Basically, they left a giant

837
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: mirror on the Moon so that you can fire a

838
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: laser at it and measure the distance that you know,

839
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 1: because of the time it takes the light to come back,

840
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 1: but we love to mirror on the Moon to shoot

841
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: lasers at. Yes, it's it's called the did you this?

842
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 1: I think it's technically called the Laser Reflector Experiment or

843
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 1: something like that, but it is. It is basically a mirror.

844
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 1: We left a mirror on the Moon, and like pretty

845
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: observatories that you know, anyone that's got a sufficiently powerful

846
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: and accurate laser can fire it. And obviously it wouldn't

847
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 1: come back if we didn't go up there and leave

848
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,240
Speaker 1: the thing there on the first place. That's my least favorite.

849
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: What are we shooting lasers adding for? Firstly, one of

850
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: the big reasons is to measure down to the sort

851
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 1: of nano millimeter the distance between the Earth and the Moon,

852
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: and that distance is changing ever so slightly every every

853
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,839
Speaker 1: year the Moon drifts a little bit further away from

854
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 1: the Earth, and scientists like to measure those sorts of things.

855
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 1: So that's that's one reason. But if I'm being honest,

856
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: I honestly think the other reason then it's just to

857
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 1: prove that they went there in the first place so

858
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: that you can do this experiment. Well, I mean, a

859
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: lot of people give these astronauts ship and like have

860
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 1: made a whole thing out of it. So maybe it's

861
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: good they left their little laser mirror up there because

862
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 1: I didn't know about it. I'm gonna tell everybody I

863
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: know about the mirror, the laser mirror, and I don't know.

864
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 1: I don't know that I particularly have a favorite. Um

865
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: maybe it's I don't know, lizards, Um, just lizards, not

866
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: lizard people, just lizards. Oh man, Okay, do you have

867
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 1: like a wildest conspiracy theory that you ever heard, and

868
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: you're like, wow, that is such crazy bullshit. Yes, the

869
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 1: false flag alien invasion theory. I don't know this one. Okay.

870
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: This is the theory that there aren't any aliens, or

871
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: that if there are, the government is going to make

872
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: some fake aliens. And basically what they're gonna do is

873
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: through a combination of hologram technology and Hollywood special effects.

874
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: They aren't going to fake an alien invasion so that

875
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: they can unite the world under a new World Order

876
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: to fight this threat that in reality doesn't really exist.

877
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: It's all a con So the false flag alien invasion, Wow,

878
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 1: I would have never thought of that, because people have

879
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: a lot of time. I just think we should all

880
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: be friends and stop killing each other and share a

881
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 1: UFO information. So then maybe the aliens can come and

882
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: we can hang out with them. That would be good

883
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: party on fuck. Yes, that is how we are ending

884
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 1: this interview party on Intergalactically. Thank you so much for

885
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: coming on here. It is so fascinating to talk with you.

886
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to get your email or something

887
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: because I have like five million more questions. Thank you

888
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: everybody listening um, if you would like to shamelessly promote yourself,

889
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: go ahead. Where do people find you? How did they

890
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: find you? What do they I have a website, Nick

891
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: Pope dot net that links to my social media, but

892
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 1: the one I use most, particularly for fast last stories,

893
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 1: is Twitter, where I am Nick Pope, m O d

894
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: okay perfect Follow him. Thank you for listening, keep on

895
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: creeping on. Thank you, Nick, It's been a pleasure. Thank you.