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Speaker 1: This is the business of sports. Should Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: shorten up the season? How do we present football to

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Speaker 1: the audience of the future. I don't think that most

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Speaker 1: players understand the power that they have. The future of

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Speaker 1: IndyCar racing is looking bright. Scott Sashnik very basic math here,

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Speaker 1: more bidders means more money. Evan Nobody Williams. The team

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Speaker 1: value has essentially quadruples. And the leaders in the sports

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Speaker 1: industry time to bringing our guest, Hal's find Runner, National

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Speaker 1: Hockey League Commissioner Gary Bettman, Atlanta Braves President Derek Schiller,

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Speaker 1: Patriots President Jonathan Kraft. Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hello,

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Speaker 1: I'm Michael barn I'm Evan Novie Williams, and I'm Scott Sashnik.

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Speaker 1: Every week at this time plus Monday's, Wednesdays and Thursdays,

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Speaker 1: we explore the big money issues in the world of sports.

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Speaker 1: Today we speak with Frank Vono, partner at sixteen W Marketing,

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Speaker 1: on the business of professional football. There are many reasons

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Speaker 1: why I think it could be much much bigger. The

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Speaker 1: fact that the live sports still holds such a place

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Speaker 1: in all of our hearts as a big deal stay

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Speaker 1: tuned for more of our to view with sixteen W

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Speaker 1: marketing partner Frank Juneo. But first let's look at the

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Speaker 1: top stories of the week. Before we do that, I

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Speaker 1: gotta mention one thing. Christ Yes, yes we talked about it.

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Speaker 1: Yes we know the money doesn't go to The money

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Speaker 1: doesn't go to him. Did anybody say anything that would

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Speaker 1: have led the listeners to believe that we thought the

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Speaker 1: money went to policity? We know it goes to Dortmund.

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Speaker 1: I had mentioned that seventy three million dollars was like

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Speaker 1: a NBA journeyman's salary, which may have led to the confusion.

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Speaker 1: But yes, that's a transfer fee. But to the transfer fee,

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Speaker 1: even it doesn't go to him, it's just that number

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Speaker 1: will be attached him. Therefore the pressure is on him

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Speaker 1: to live up to the amount they paid for him. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we just wanted to Claire. Alright, alright, well let's start.

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Speaker 1: First of all, the NFL and attendance. The ratings are high,

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Speaker 1: but attendance at the games have dropped. Why, well you're wondering,

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Speaker 1: bar I'm serious. Well this First of all, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of caveats on this one, and there was a

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Speaker 1: team that was you know Mexico City game didn't get played,

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Speaker 1: so they went to l A last minute was someone

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Speaker 1: to London, sou But on the whole it's down. So

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Speaker 1: that's a bit concerning if you're an NFL owner. But

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Speaker 1: and this is the big butt, the huge money from

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Speaker 1: pro football comes from media, and you can scale media

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Speaker 1: seats in a stadium our finite number. Let's remember a

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Speaker 1: majority of people in this country, forget about the world,

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Speaker 1: do not live near a stadium and will never go.

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Speaker 1: It's how do you scale your product and sell highlights

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Speaker 1: and clips and sports betting? How can you slice and

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Speaker 1: dice and make money from the ancillary? Play the game? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you gotta play the game, but then how do you

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Speaker 1: make money? And scale? Media is how you scale. So

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Speaker 1: do you want your buildings filled? Of course you do.

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Speaker 1: Of course you do. But I'm not pushing any panic

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Speaker 1: buttons because it's a little slip in turnstyle numbers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: have you've given Roger Goodell the option before the season. Hey,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna make your TV ratings up five, there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be a differ in attendance. Where do I sign yes? Yes, yes, yes?

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Speaker 1: Um looking at the numbers here, it's amazing and this

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Speaker 1: is true every year, but Dallas so far ahead of

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Speaker 1: everybody else. Dallas average nine almost nine people per game.

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Speaker 1: The next closest the Jets at seventy thousand. Imagine if

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Speaker 1: the judgment would That is why you know the Cowboys

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Speaker 1: are are the a one leader, head and shoulders above

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Speaker 1: everybody else in local revenue. It's because with that stadium

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Speaker 1: they have there and the fan base locally, Uh, they're

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Speaker 1: just bringing in so much more money than everyone else.

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Speaker 1: Our next story from the dynamic duo right here, NFL

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Speaker 1: signs Caesar's as a casino partner. Looks like ranching towards

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Speaker 1: betting fields. Yeah, the NFL didn't go as far as

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Speaker 1: we've seen with baseball, hockey and the NBA. This is

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Speaker 1: a casino only deal. So so Caesar's is not allowed

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Speaker 1: to advertise its sports book and conjunction with the NFL

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Speaker 1: marks However, you know, after decades or years, decades of

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Speaker 1: objecting to the possibility of legalized sports betting, objecting to

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Speaker 1: gaming as a whole, the the NFL is jumping in

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Speaker 1: with the casino partner. It's according to our source, is

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Speaker 1: almost thirty million dollars a year. So even without the

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Speaker 1: sport fetting. The NBA got four more data more than

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Speaker 1: the NBA deal with with MGM UM, which wasn't exclusive.

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Speaker 1: And this is so you know that there are some

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Speaker 1: differences there, but you know this sets the NFL up

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Speaker 1: in the future if it wants to either from a

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Speaker 1: data perspective or from a just a sports betting marketing perspective,

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Speaker 1: for a much bigger contract in the future. You know

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Speaker 1: Jim Burn's gonna be knocking on the door at MGM.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, if I'm Caesar's and I don't get this

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Speaker 1: contract with the NFL, I am one upset puppy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's worth mentioning. Caesar's a partner in the Las Vegas

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Speaker 1: Stadium where the Raiders will play. They're already working with

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Speaker 1: I think eight NFL teams already. Um, it's clear that

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Speaker 1: Caesar's is doing whatever it can to keep its relationship

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Speaker 1: with the NFL. Going more touch points and necessarily moving

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Speaker 1: right along were from the NFL going to college football,

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Speaker 1: which kind of plays into the first story we talked

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Speaker 1: about about. Attendance. Tickets from Monday night's college foot ball

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Speaker 1: playoff title game between Alabama and Clemson have never been cheaper.

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Speaker 1: So you Alabama obviously East coast, Clemson South Carolina, east coast,

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Speaker 1: and we're playing this game in Santa Clara, home of

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Speaker 1: the forty Niners. That's not a one hour trip. And

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Speaker 1: sorry Clemson, but most fans would probably say, what's what's

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Speaker 1: the line? Evan six and a half? Most people probably

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Speaker 1: the Alabama FATA company. I mean some sports books even

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Speaker 1: paid out Alabama as champions already. I can see why

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Speaker 1: they're not. They're not filming the stadium and the prices

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Speaker 1: have to come down. Yeah, this seems like a mix

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Speaker 1: of of a lot of factors. Scott. You just mentioned

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Speaker 1: that these two teams are both miles away uh Levi

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Speaker 1: Stadium in Santa Clara. You know that area is not

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Speaker 1: a hotbed for college football as it is. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can question, you know, whether this game should be

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Speaker 1: played on a Monday night or maybe a weekend. Um.

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Speaker 1: But as we talked about with the NFL, same kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. This is a TV property first and an

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Speaker 1: in person property second. And if the ratings are good,

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Speaker 1: and I imagine they would be, they got the two

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Speaker 1: slam dunk best teams in college football this year, and

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Speaker 1: that's all they really care about searches next year. Finally,

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Speaker 1: we have to say goodbye to a wrestling legend told

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Speaker 1: the Madison Square Garden throughout the way to the Oakland.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up with Mean Gene Oakland and

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Speaker 1: Hulk Hogan in the Iron Chic and uh Man. He

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Speaker 1: was to me like a mega broadcaster. He was the

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Speaker 1: straight man to all the streaming rowdy roddy Pipers, Jim

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Speaker 1: the Anvil Nightheart just see Sant's everybody out the seventies

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Speaker 1: six We're gonna miss you now. He was as good

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Speaker 1: as he was as much a part of the w

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Speaker 1: w E as any wrestler. Sergeant's laughter, Hulk Hogan, Bruno,

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Speaker 1: Sam Martin, you name it. That's saying something. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: miss you mean Jane. Now, let's get to this week's

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Speaker 1: interview with Frank Unal, partner at sixteen W Marketing. He's

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Speaker 1: a leader in the sports marketing industry, having consulted for

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Speaker 1: more than half of the teams in the NFL and

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Speaker 1: negotiated record breaking partnerships and sponsorships, licensing and merchandizing. Frank,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. My pleasure. Good

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Speaker 1: to be with you guys. Happy New Year. Happy New

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Speaker 1: Year to you. And before we hit you with some questions,

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Speaker 1: maybe you can set a little debate here at the office.

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Speaker 1: You played football at Princeton, Evan Novie Williams Nova underscore

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Speaker 1: Williams on Twitter, which I hate. He played lightweight football

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Speaker 1: at Princeton with as a weight limit. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that counts personally, does that? I usually prepare Evan. I'm

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Speaker 1: pleasure with Tiger, but uh hey, those guys are tough,

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Speaker 1: but they had a hard at our place. I don't

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Speaker 1: know when Evan was there, but he didn't win a

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Speaker 1: game either. He didn't. He was industry, he didn't. I

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Speaker 1: don't want I didn't want to bring that up. I

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Speaker 1: feel so inadequate. I'm bowled on Monday nights. That's it. No, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: Frank Michael Barr's lifetime best on the bowling Alley to

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Speaker 1: Could you imagine living with that? Yeah? Every day I

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Speaker 1: think of that ninepin? Just how does that happen? You

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Speaker 1: miss one on the last on the last shot, the

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Speaker 1: twelfth shot in the tenth frame. I threw it and

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Speaker 1: it was heading for the pocket, and I'm like, get

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Speaker 1: the champagne boys, this is it And it and it

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Speaker 1: drove in hard, and it drove in so hard it

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Speaker 1: left the nine pin. And hey, Frank, you're into sports marketing,

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Speaker 1: you've seen it all. What's a better story? What could

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Speaker 1: you market better? Or three hundred? Probably a two, about

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Speaker 1: three hundred, you know, it's the hard lark story. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's probably a better one. You know, years ago, many

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Speaker 1: years ago, I worked with a Stewart and he was

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Speaker 1: always known as Avis because he was number two and

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Speaker 1: he tried harder. You know, it's a tagline we remember.

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Speaker 1: But hey, Frank, you've been around a long time, though,

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Speaker 1: I mean, what was it then? What is it now?

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Speaker 1: You worked at the NFL just sort of the entire

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Speaker 1: ecosystem of sport. Did you see the rise to the

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Speaker 1: multibillion dollar international businesses that it is now? Oh? Absolutely absolutely.

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Speaker 1: There are many reasons why I think it could be

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Speaker 1: much much bigger, but it would take me a while

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Speaker 1: to to outline all of that. But yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's funny. I've told the story many times that when

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Speaker 1: I interviewed at the NFL, I'm glad I didn't cost

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Speaker 1: myself the job, but I could have, because I interviewed

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Speaker 1: with the folks at the time, and at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day we all went out to dinner the

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Speaker 1: people I was interviewing with, and somebody asked me, so,

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Speaker 1: what do you think And I said, well, geez, I

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Speaker 1: think this business could be three times bigger than it is.

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Speaker 1: And that kind of insulted people because they out they

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Speaker 1: were doing such a great job. But when I ended

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Speaker 1: up leaving seven and a half years later, we were

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Speaker 1: seven times as big, and um, it just continued to

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Speaker 1: grow after that. So, UM, it does not surprise me

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Speaker 1: with the way that the media has developed, The Internet developed, um,

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Speaker 1: the instantaneous news has developed. The fact that Live sports

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Speaker 1: um still holds such a place in all of our

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Speaker 1: hearts is uh, there's a big deal. And I I

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Speaker 1: tell a story that I really really admire Walt Disney,

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Speaker 1: one of my idols and one of my business inspirations.

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Speaker 1: And UM, I talked about the fact that, uh, the

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Speaker 1: entire Disney Empire, which now, as you know, owns the ESPN,

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Speaker 1: so it's very involved in sports and ABC and so on. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, it all started with a cartoon mouse that's

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Speaker 1: on the gates at Disney World. It says, never forget

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Speaker 1: that it all started with the mess. Well, if you

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Speaker 1: think about that, and you think about taking that example

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Speaker 1: um to the NFL for instance, and thinking about just

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Speaker 1: just just think about this, most people don't and and

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Speaker 1: I call it to their attention. The NFL has never

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Speaker 1: expanded beyond the actual playing of their games. Now, it

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Speaker 1: involves a lot of media and involves a lot of publicity,

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Speaker 1: but they're in the news twelve months out of the year,

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Speaker 1: top of mind by far America's most popular sport. But

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Speaker 1: there's never been anything developed outside the playing of the

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Speaker 1: games themselves. There's only the stadiums, is only the training centers,

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Speaker 1: but no one's ever taken that and compounded it into

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Speaker 1: an entertainment empire. Or you can't go visit anything that's NFL.

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Speaker 1: And people say, oh, the Hall of Fame, but you

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Speaker 1: know what, the Hall of Fame is not even owned

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Speaker 1: by the NFL. So and you know it's in Canton, Ohio,

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Speaker 1: which you know, is it's a great little place, but

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Speaker 1: it's not the metropolis the New York or any place

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Speaker 1: else is. It's not a visitors center like or Lando

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Speaker 1: or Vegas. So if you really think about the potential

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Speaker 1: for the future, I think there's the skies, the limit.

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Speaker 1: Maybe a lightweight football league, sprint NFL. How about that.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna keep coming back to that. It's a big

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Speaker 1: part of his life. I don't let him live it down.

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Speaker 1: I do think, I do think there'll be a developmental

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Speaker 1: league for the NFL if one of these new leagues

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen to turn into that. I think eventually the

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Speaker 1: NFL will develop their own developmental league. I was actually

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Speaker 1: gonna ask when you look at you know, it seems like,

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Speaker 1: certainly this year and in the past couple of years,

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Speaker 1: that there's been this huge push for for a number

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Speaker 1: of different types of investors and entertainment properties to try

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Speaker 1: to create another professional football league in the US. Um

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Speaker 1: from a marketing standpoint, kind of where do you view

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Speaker 1: those and their potential likelihood for success? Well, we know

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Speaker 1: many people have tried and failed, but I think they

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Speaker 1: all made some critical mistake and they tried to take

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Speaker 1: on the NFL. You know, it's really funny. I was

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Speaker 1: part of the UFL being launched by Bill Hamburg back

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Speaker 1: uh seven eight years ago, and um initially I still

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Speaker 1: believe that to this day. Initially, I think there is

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Speaker 1: room for another professional football league, but not to go

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Speaker 1: up against the NFL and the fall really to be

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Speaker 1: to be developed as a feeder to the NFL and

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Speaker 1: to be played in the spring, and to be played

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Speaker 1: in markets where the NFL isn't And I think there's

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Speaker 1: tremendous potential because we know that there's an incredible talent

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Speaker 1: level out there. There's thousands and thousands of really qualified

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Speaker 1: college athletes coming out who could play ball at a

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Speaker 1: very high level, who for one reason or another just

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Speaker 1: don't get the chance. And I can get into that

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Speaker 1: in many different respects in terms of if you look

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Speaker 1: at the first round draft picks that people have failed

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Speaker 1: on and then you look at Tom Brady's drafted in

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Speaker 1: the sixth round. Uh, you know that there's a kid

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Speaker 1: playing for the Washington Redskins of quarterback these last few

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Speaker 1: games who was actually on the the a F roster,

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Speaker 1: one of the new league's rosters in the spring just

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Speaker 1: and he did, you know, he did pretty damn well.

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Speaker 1: So when you look at the XFL, they're playing in

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Speaker 1: the spring, good not competing with the NFL. But the

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Speaker 1: first eight cities they chose Houston, Dallas, l A, New York, Seattle, Tampa, Washington,

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Speaker 1: all NFL cities. You think that's that's necessarily not the

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Speaker 1: right approach in terms of trying to culture. I'd scratch

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Speaker 1: my head about that. I actually had a conversation with

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Speaker 1: Oliver Luck about that at the National Football Foundation College

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Speaker 1: Football Hall of Fame dinner and he said, Frank, you know,

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Speaker 1: I asked him about it, and he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: we think our fans are going to be the die

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Speaker 1: hard football fans. And where else would you find diehard

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Speaker 1: football fans but in the cities where NFL was played. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that's questionable. But we'll see. They

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Speaker 1: are going to play in the spring, which is great. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think there's still a desire for football, particularly in

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Speaker 1: a month of February after um Super Bowl ends. But

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Speaker 1: I think the a F going into uh markets that

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Speaker 1: are you know, great cities and good football cities, but

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Speaker 1: uh not NFL cities is a smart move. Plus, if

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Speaker 1: you're gonna play in outdoor stadiums during that time period,

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Speaker 1: you probably want to stay away from North into Mason

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Speaker 1: Dixon line, which is what the a F has done.

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Speaker 1: So they're really going in two different directions and uh,

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Speaker 1: and we'll see, you know, Vince McMahon is a tremendous promoter.

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Speaker 1: So I think the backers of that particular league or

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Speaker 1: betting that um, you know, his cloud and his marketing

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Speaker 1: ability and promotional uh expertise will help them a lot. Um.

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Speaker 1: So we'll see. But my point really was, I think

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Speaker 1: that there's talent enough out there, and there's enough players,

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Speaker 1: um who have played at the high level of college

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Speaker 1: who could still play and who for some reason or another,

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Speaker 1: you know, just haven't hooked on in the NFL. We're

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Speaker 1: talking with Frank Vona with the sixt W Marketing and

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about something and about the emotion

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Speaker 1: of a project that you were with. You assisted the

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Speaker 1: New Orleans Saints post Hurricane Katrina, and you helped secure

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Speaker 1: millions and dollars in revenue during that time, and the

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Speaker 1: future of the team was endowed of being in Louisiana,

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Speaker 1: not because the city didn't love him, but because of

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Speaker 1: all of the horrific stuff that was going down there.

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Speaker 1: Can you take us through that time on what that

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Speaker 1: was like? Yeah, you know, I'm getting choked up again

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Speaker 1: goose bumps just as you're talking about that. I have

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Speaker 1: tremendous emotions about that whole entire or experience. Uh. It's

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons, frankly, I really believe firmly that

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Speaker 1: Paul Tagley Blues be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 1: But that's another subject. Um. Paul was instrumental in um,

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Speaker 1: in making it happened for the Saints and for the Dome. UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was on the first plane down with

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Speaker 1: Roger Goodell, who was a Lieutenant commissioner at the time,

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Speaker 1: of Paul Tagleboo and Geane Upshaw. UM. I was on

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Speaker 1: the first plane after Katrina with them, and they kind

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Speaker 1: of left me there and we did a mission impossible

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Speaker 1: thing and set up an office down there to help

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Speaker 1: the Saints stay. Um. It wasn't just because of the

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Speaker 1: horrific aspects of what had happened post Katrina, but uh,

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Speaker 1: it was also that Mr Benson was going to move

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Speaker 1: the team to San Antonio because up until that time

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Speaker 1: he didn't have a hell of a lot of corporate support,

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Speaker 1: and he had a car dealerships in San Antonio. He

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Speaker 1: had a deal pretty much in place with the Alamo Dome,

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Speaker 1: and he he had all of his agreements and coterminously,

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Speaker 1: which is just a no no in in sports marketing.

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Speaker 1: You usually stagger your agreements so you don't have to

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Speaker 1: go on out and get renewals each year. Usually stagger

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Speaker 1: him about whenever five years expiring and so on. So

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Speaker 1: all of that um came to play. But the remarkable

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Speaker 1: thing was that hum, the city of New Orleans, all

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Speaker 1: of its key business people and so on, just said,

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Speaker 1: if the Superdome goes dark and the Saints move away,

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Speaker 1: our city could actually die. Our city could really go

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Speaker 1: away because it will send a message to the world

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Speaker 1: that um our, our city is dark and our city

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Speaker 1: has has died, and we just can't let that happen.

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Speaker 1: Do you think they were right for it? I mean

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Speaker 1: New Orleans has said, yeah, you know, there was there

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Speaker 1: was a there was a cover. There was a cover

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Speaker 1: article of U. S. News and World Report. On my

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Speaker 1: second trip down, when I came home and packed and

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Speaker 1: everything to go back down, I was going through La

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Speaker 1: Guardia Airport and I'll never forget that I saw a

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Speaker 1: magazine in the rack which it was a US I

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Speaker 1: think it was a U. S. News and World Report,

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Speaker 1: and on the cover it said America has never lost

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Speaker 1: the city. Will New Orleans be the first? And it

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Speaker 1: could have potentially happened. You know, literally half the population

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Speaker 1: to the city was wiped out and still hasn't returned

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Speaker 1: to this day, the ninth Ward and so on. Uh,

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Speaker 1: So it was it was on shaky ground. Um. Now

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Speaker 1: you know, I agree with you. I love the city,

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Speaker 1: so I think it has a lot more the offer.

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Speaker 1: But that was what the business people told us, So

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm just going to kind of buy what

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Speaker 1: they said. So it was a remarkable, remarkable effort by

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Speaker 1: so many people. Um. Uh you know, I was bonding

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Speaker 1: with the Saints personnel and uh and uh. Paul Taglibu said, uh,

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Speaker 1: and the people that were on the stadium. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: a guy my name of Doug Thornton, which he could

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Speaker 1: do a documentary which would just bring tears of your

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Speaker 1: guy's eyes. That the stuff that he went through during

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Speaker 1: the storm. Um. And and what went on inside that stadium,

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Speaker 1: which was when you used the great word horrific. It

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Speaker 1: was horrific. The police actually left because they feared for

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Speaker 1: their own lives. So what went on there was just horrible.

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Speaker 1: But um, Paul stood on the floor of the stadium

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Speaker 1: and said that Doug Thornton, you know, can we need

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Speaker 1: to have this open for next season. This was December

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Speaker 1: and he wanted to make sure. He wanted to get

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Speaker 1: it open by September, and Doug just said, that's just

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Speaker 1: not possible. We had holes in the roof. The place

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Speaker 1: was just that. All the floor was ripped up, the

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Speaker 1: place was destroyed. Um and Uh. Paul said, well what

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Speaker 1: if what if I go to all the NFL owners

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Speaker 1: and I get them to kick in so we can

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Speaker 1: get this started. And Doug said, well, that would help

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Speaker 1: a lot. So Paul went to all the owners, had

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Speaker 1: them contribute a million dollars each to get the renovation started,

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Speaker 1: and then we worked with FEMA UM relentlessly after that

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Speaker 1: and ultimately spent a hundred eighty million dollars to renovate

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Speaker 1: the place. And when we reopened, we couldn't get it

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Speaker 1: open for the first game this season. There was a

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Speaker 1: little story that just shows you some sometimes scratch your head. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know. I was working with the NFL folks who

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Speaker 1: were in charge of the network broadcast, and I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, we got to get their first game on

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Speaker 1: television on Monday night and they were like, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's the Saints and they're not so good. I was like,

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Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? Wait a minute, Wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: you're telling me the TV people at the NFL didn't

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Speaker 1: understand the compelling narrative of getting the Saints first game

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Speaker 1: on TV, saying they still there. No, that's what That's

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Speaker 1: what I'm telling you. So a little known secret. But

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Speaker 1: I won't I won't name names, but you probably look

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Speaker 1: up the dates. Anyway, that was that was the fact.

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Speaker 1: But we got it Monday night, and you know, wound

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Speaker 1: up with New Orleans performers and just you two and

391
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 1: just the whole thing, and um the return. When we

392
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Speaker 1: were outside that stadium, people started gathering on the concourse

393
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Speaker 1: four or five hours before the gates opened, just in

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Speaker 1: tears and just so excited. And you know, one of

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Speaker 1: the most emotional times in my professional career. I was

396
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Speaker 1: there with all the folks outside and it was just

397
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Speaker 1: hugging and it was just a celebration. Just one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest days in my in my career. So were

399
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Speaker 1: you there in Miami when they won the Super Bowl?

400
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Speaker 1: I was absolutely, absolutely you know, uh, I'm a big

401
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 1: New York Giants fan, but I got a place in

402
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Speaker 1: my heart for the Saints forever. Right, You've been doing

403
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Speaker 1: a long time. Who's doing it best these days? Which team,

404
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Speaker 1: which league? Who does it the best? And one great question,

405
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Speaker 1: great question, um, hard to argue in the NFL that

406
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Speaker 1: the Cowboys and the Patriots don't do it great, um,

407
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Speaker 1: regardless of what your feelings might be, UM, you know

408
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: they've persevered. Patriots obviously have translated into success on the

409
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 1: field that US has been much more frustrated about that.

410
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Speaker 1: But from a marketing standpoint, uh, they do a pretty

411
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Speaker 1: awesome job obviously. You know across the league's uh. Um,

412
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Speaker 1: the NBA has really been able to uh spread themselves internationally,

413
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Speaker 1: which the NFL hasn't done. And that's a huge credit

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Speaker 1: to them. UM. I think that bode's wealth or uh

415
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,959
Speaker 1: their future. UM. So I give them a lot of credit.

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Speaker 1: And Adam Silver um has been able to avoid all

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00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: the controversies that Roger has had to take on, I

418
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: think rather unfairly. But that's another story, um um. But

419
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Speaker 1: he's been able to stay above Defray and MLB a

420
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: while ago. UM. I don't think they get enough credit.

421
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Speaker 1: But they launched mL BAM and their MLB network. They

422
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Speaker 1: were they were the first, so they were they were

423
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Speaker 1: leaders in that category. UM. A little tougher sell on

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Speaker 1: baseball given the attention spans of all our millennials and

425
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Speaker 1: now whatever general Asian we're on Generation Z and so on.

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00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,199
Speaker 1: But um, they did a great job with all that.

427
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: So those leagues still continue to lead. UM. I wish

428
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: college would catch up. I really wish. Um you're not graduating. Yeah,

429
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: you know, there's a couple of things. I think college

430
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 1: athletes ultimately really need to be paid or at least

431
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: have a stipend. I think it's just a shame that

432
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: they're exploited to the extent that they are, and I

433
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: think it would really be easy for the n c

434
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 1: a A and form all the college organizations to have

435
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: that happen. I you know, I've been involved in the

436
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 1: licensing business almost my entire professional career. If just some

437
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: small portion of um uh, you know that you can't

438
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: sell um, you take the most popular player in college

439
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: these days, you can't sell their jersey with their name

440
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 1: on it. There. They're they're not. Let me tell you, Frank,

441
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: I thought that this was an easy way for universities

442
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: to actually make more money. What I would do is

443
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: sell the blank jersey in the bookstore and right there

444
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: in the bookstore, I would also offer iron on name

445
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: and number that way. I'm not selling it that way,

446
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: but I know who they want, so let the customer

447
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: come in charge them extra to put the name and

448
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: number on. It's their call, not yours. So you're doing

449
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 1: it then. But then, but the reason they don't do

450
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: that is the player. The player would have a suit

451
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 1: on their hand for their own identity, and that, you know,

452
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: that would raise all sorts of issues. UM. For years,

453
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: video game companies whose college players names, and they ultimately

454
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: sued and won rightfully. So my point was really exactly

455
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: the opposite. Why is that? Why? Why? Why not? Um?

456
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: You know, the jersey business in the NFL is a

457
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: huge part of their sales, huge, by far, the largest

458
00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: single item that's sold with NFL identity on it. Uh.

459
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: In college, it's a paying minute portion of sales. It's

460
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: two or three percent of sales. It's hard to hard

461
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: to fathom. And I know that for a fact because

462
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: I've consulted for some of the college licensing companies. So

463
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: if if college caught up the even half of what

464
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: the NFL does as a percentage of business with their

465
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: jersey sales, if they could put the players Uh, student

466
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: athletes names on the jerseys. Uh, they would be. They

467
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: would absolutely make enough money to support um and mansue

468
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: with Stipe into the people that are playing college athletics.

469
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: But the reason that doesn't happen, and the reason players

470
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: aren't paid in any capacity beyond their the full cost

471
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: of attendance in their scholarship, is that, you know, the

472
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: powers that be in college sports think that they will

473
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: be losing money if they If they do that, it

474
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: sounds like, given your expertise, you're arguing the opposite that

475
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: that there is a lot more money on the table

476
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: to be made, both for players and for for universities

477
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: and conferences themselves if they were to kind of open

478
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: a more commercial model akin to what the pros do.

479
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, I I could say that unequivocally, and I

480
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: think it would take it would take a national body

481
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: like the n c A to have to make that happen.

482
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 1: Think about the money for March Madness alone. I think

483
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: about the money, Think about think about you know, the

484
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: dollars that roll in, and what small percentage you would

485
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: have to take. And I'm not talking about making college

486
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: players professional players. I'm just talking about giving them enough

487
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: spending money, and so let them let them sign their

488
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: autographs for money? Really, I mean, is that really a

489
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: sin in this country? You can bet on the college games.

490
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: You can go and gamble now in many states, and

491
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: uh and so on and uh, you know, the colleges

492
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: and the n c A is just you know, raking

493
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: in all the doll It's hard to believe that that

494
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: a kid that's uh twenty years old, he was a

495
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 1: popular in his in his local market, can't sign an

496
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: autograph and get paid for it. It's just hard to believe.

497
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: I don't get it, do you just? You just went

498
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: right into the next question I was gonna ask, what

499
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: do you think of now you have sports betting? And

500
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: how does this affect marketing for not just the NFL,

501
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: but for any major sport. It's funny. I'm you know,

502
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: I'm Italian from New Jersey, so I don't know, for

503
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: some reason, I've been getting a lot of calls wait wait, wait,

504
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: wait your Italian from New Jersey. So I don't know

505
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: if for some reason people think I'm expert at that

506
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: I was a kid from the Troy, So you know

507
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: what happens. So you know, um, it's the next billion

508
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: dollar pot Um, and it's it's only gonna get bigger. Um,

509
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: it's inevitable. Society has changed. Many people think of marijuana

510
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: now as a victimless kind of thing, and that's been

511
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: legalized and gambling again, even though we know that it's

512
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: not necessarily true. But most people think it's a victimless activity.

513
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: And um, and it goes on regularly, so I might

514
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: not tap into it and generate tax revenue and so on. Um.

515
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: It's opened up incredible doors for the pro leagues and

516
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: teams to associate themselves with casinos. Each of the leagues

517
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: now has non official deals, three or four deals each

518
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: with the NBA and the NHL, and I'm sure eventually

519
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: the NFL will follow suit. They're always a little bit

520
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: more conservative, but I think they're probably working on some

521
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: blockbuster deals as they look to generate more dollars. And

522
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: it will happen, maybe not this next month, but probably

523
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: in the next year or two, and um, all the

524
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: leagues will follow along. Frank Vono with six W Marketing,

525
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: thank you so much. We appreciate you talking with us.

526
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: It's great being with you guys any time. Takeaways. I

527
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: was really moved when he talked about the New Orleans

528
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: Saints and that whole rebuilding process after a Hurricane Katrina

529
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: and all that they went through and all the efforts

530
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: he put into. That's how it was so gratifying for him. Well,

531
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: I have a simple one that there's some adults working

532
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: in places that shouldn't. He didn't want to put the

533
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: Saints return first game back. I'm not so sure if

534
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: we should. Are you kidding me? If there ever was

535
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: a no brainer, that's it. I wanted him to name

536
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: names as who did not who in the league did

537
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: not see the merit or the like. Why when the

538
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: network screaming, of course we're taking the Saints, make it happen. Unbelievable.

539
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: I'd like to see Frank speaking on a panel at

540
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: n c A convention later this month, specifically about this

541
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: idea that players can get a little bit more from

542
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: a compensation standpoint and it can still be tremendously profitable

543
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: for everybody involved. As we've talked about many times on

544
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: this show, the fear of paying players from people in

545
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: administrative levels in sports is that there's not enough money

546
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: to go around. He clearly feels the opposite that with

547
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: smart marketing and a good strategy. More money can be

548
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: had by all best accent on the show. Thus far,

549
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: we've been doing it for a while now, Peter Goober,

550
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: New England, Frank Bono, New Jersey. I mean they're right now.

551
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: When we have the brackets set up, when we're all

552
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: set and done, those two could very well meet in

553
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: the championship. It feels better to be number one than

554
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: number five. I'll wear a number because of Mike. We

555
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: have a chance to go for three in a row.

556
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: Kids numbers in a good time, and let's first started

557
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: wearing the number. I would just happy in Floomberg Business

558
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: of sports, the number of the week dive now. But

559
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: the number of the week so easy, This is so easy.

560
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: You don't even there are two numbers, two numbers. It's

561
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: not number of the week. It's numbers of the week

562
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: that will make this plural. Numbers of the week, all right,

563
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: Five and eleven, five and eleven. I'm looking at Mr

564
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: Novie Williams the height and feet and inches of five,

565
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: Dennis Potvin and eleven. I don't know what I have,

566
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: no idea, yeah exactly. Once again, bars like come on,

567
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: come on, you talked about them all the time. We

568
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: talked about that's the record of the New York Giants.

569
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: And you also said, I did you made fun of

570
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: the Giants? Did not? I mean I just said, yes,

571
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: a city with no NFL team, and we said. The

572
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: reason why I bring that up is because now, for

573
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: the first time, there is chatter for real that they're

574
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: starting to maybe look beyond well, he's not twenty two.

575
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: Speaking of a number, I mean, they have not won

576
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: a whole lot of games since his last Super Bowl.

577
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: They're sub five hundred, and he's getting up there. It's

578
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: you got a plan for the future, bar and it

579
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: might be a good time to start right now. And

580
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: I'm not. I mean, I know other people will, but

581
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that. Two super bowls with

582
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: the Giants. I mean, that's doing it allowed me to stress.

583
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: By the way, it's a team game. If you're a

584
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: quarterback and you're rushed and you're hurried all the time,

585
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: it's not an easy positions. Let's just not put all

586
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: of this on Eli Manning. This is a team game.

587
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: He's thirty eight years old. I mean, you guys make

588
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: fun of me for being old. That's older. You're almost

589
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: you're almost as old. Significantly older. Um, and he looks

590
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: Eli looks better than Eli must moisturize around the eyes.

591
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter how talented you are. When you become

592
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: thirty eight years old and you're a starter in the NFL,

593
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: you know, teams have to start preparing for the eventuality

594
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: that you're not going to be there in a couple

595
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: of years. Because you're not going to be there in

596
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: a couple of years. And I think it totally makes sense,

597
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: whether he's the starter next year or not, the future

598
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: of the New York Giants does not include Eli Manning

599
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: at this point. It ain't Sam Donald, No, don't tell

600
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: that the forty one year old Tom Brady. I'm sorry,

601
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: I said, I'm sorry. Like I said, it's a team game.

602
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: You've been listening to The Bloomberg Business of Sports. Were

603
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: here each and every week at the same time, Plus

604
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: Online has enough podcast. You can catch that Modden days,

605
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: Wednesdays and Thursdays him Michael bar on Twitter at Big

606
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 1: Bar Sports, Evie Williams at Novie Underscore Williams, and I'm

607
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: Scott Sasha. You can follow me on Twitter at Sasha.

608
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,439
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, and please tune in next week

609
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: when we speak with the man in charge of the

610
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: money at the NFL, Brian rolled Out. You're listening to

611
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world

612
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: and online where our podcast is available.