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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and it's just us. But that's okay because we

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Speaker 2: can keep all the Chinese food to ourselves. I'll have

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Speaker 2: to share with Jerry. And this is stuff you should know.

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Speaker 1: That's right. A lot of caveats on this, can I

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Speaker 1: list off a few?

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Speaker 2: Sure? All right?

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Speaker 1: First of all, this is going to be a very

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Speaker 1: broad overview of a cuisine that we could probably do

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Speaker 1: like a ten part at least episode series on.

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Speaker 2: I would say eleven, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Maybe eleven. So just you know, have your expectations set

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Speaker 1: going into this one. When you talk about Chinese food,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot there. We are going to do our

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Speaker 1: best to pronounce things correctly. I looked up a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff and I'm doing my best. But some of

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Speaker 1: this stuff is hard for my dumb American mouth, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of this is going to be I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's mainly about sort of you know, Chinese food, although

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about origins and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: origin stories. It's mainly like what Chinese food has become

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Speaker 1: here in the States. Although we'll talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about other countries later, but it's through our lens.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. That was great Vat City right.

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Speaker 1: There, Caaveat City, David Bowie, great song.

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Speaker 2: So you said something that we were going to largely

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Speaker 2: focus on American Chinese cuisine, and Laura helped us with this,

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Speaker 2: and she makes a really good point that Chinese food

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Speaker 2: is not just one thing. Yeah. And the reason why

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Speaker 2: it's not just one thing, or one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: why is because it's been exported all over the globe.

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Speaker 2: Anywhere that Chinese people traveled, usually for work to immigrate,

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Speaker 2: they brought their food with them and introduced it to

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Speaker 2: wherever they were, and then over time, the local flavors

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Speaker 2: and tastes and ingredients from that place melded with the

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Speaker 2: Chinese food, and a new type of chines Use food

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Speaker 2: was born. And America is no exception to that. So

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Speaker 2: we have American Chinese food. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And do you know what I love about that? This

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Speaker 1: whole story is like everywhere Chinese people went, they were like,

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Speaker 1: get a load of this, yeah, and everyone was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, that's amazing. Yeah, and it took yeah

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Speaker 1: big time. I mean, I I have no examples of

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Speaker 1: places where Chinese immigrants had brought their food and people

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Speaker 1: are like, nah, no, thanks right.

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Speaker 2: The only one I could find was Belize.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I know you're kidding. I'm not going to fall

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Speaker 1: for it. And the reason why is because, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can live on many, many, many cuisines from Asia.

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Speaker 1: I love Japanese food, I love Thai, I love Vietnamese,

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Speaker 1: I loved Filipino, like Korean food. I love it all.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, good old fashioned

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Speaker 1: like Chinese takeout is just one of my favorite all

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Speaker 1: time things since I was a kid.

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Speaker 2: Very nice. Yeah, that's what I grew up on too.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't until I was an adult that I was like,

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Speaker 2: there's other kinds of Asian food out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's kind of what you and if you

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Speaker 1: grew up in the seventies and eighties, that was sort

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Speaker 1: of the first, you know, probably one of the first,

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Speaker 1: you know, cuisines from another country you ever ate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, you know.

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Speaker 1: Maybe Mexican food wasn't that big back then. That's only

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Speaker 1: become more popular, I think in the eighties and nineties.

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Speaker 2: Even even still as a kid, the Mexican food I

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Speaker 2: was exposed to is chi cheese for God's Sake.

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Speaker 1: Or Del Taco.

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Speaker 2: We didn't even have that. That was really But I

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Speaker 2: think maybe even before Chinese food, I was exposed to

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Speaker 2: Japanese hibachi because there was this nice restaurant in Toledo

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Speaker 2: called in Japanese. Yeah, and we would go to that,

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Speaker 2: and I think I might have had that before Chinese food.

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Speaker 2: But regardless, I love Chinese food too. I would say

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Speaker 2: my top two are Japanese followed by Indian, but Chinese

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Speaker 2: is definitely up there in top five or so.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I'm a simple guy, like pork, fried

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Speaker 1: rice and an egg roll. And I'm just now realizing

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Speaker 1: we're not even going to talk about egg rolls in

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Speaker 1: this and I'm panicking all of a sudden.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that didn't strike me until you just said that too,

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Speaker 2: And although my voice doesn't betray that, I'm definitely scared

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Speaker 2: right now as well.

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Speaker 1: All Right, you know, hey, let's do let's do a

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Speaker 1: shorty on eggrolls. Maybe we'll pair it.

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Speaker 2: With this good idea. All right, So we said that

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Speaker 2: Chinese food is not just one thing because it's been

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Speaker 2: exported globally, but even in China, Chinese food is not

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Speaker 2: just one thing. And they divide Chinese cuisine into eight

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Speaker 2: different regions. Why did you tell them what the regions are, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: I'm just realizing I didn't look up a couple of these,

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Speaker 1: so maybe you did. But the regions as agreed upon

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Speaker 1: right now are and they have different names for each one.

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Speaker 1: So the first grouping is Sichuan, sa Chuan or I

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Speaker 1: didn't look up c h U a n.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you're braver than me. I was just gonna

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Speaker 2: say the first ones that are they're mostly known by

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Speaker 2: in the US.

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Speaker 1: Oh, we can do that, then that's much easier. So

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Speaker 1: let's go with Sechuan, Cantonese, Hunan, which is also Jong.

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Speaker 1: Let me see here, we have Shangdong, we have jung Su,

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Speaker 1: we have oh, I did look that one up Jong.

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Speaker 2: Very nice. Fujian I've always heard as Fujian, but that

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Speaker 2: sounds kind of like an American version.

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Speaker 1: Well I heard it pronounces if it had a y,

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Speaker 1: And they're almost like few okay, uh few Fujian okay.

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Speaker 1: And then what's the last one there on? Wi?

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Speaker 2: Yes, And some people added at least a ninth one

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Speaker 2: with sean Ji, and they're all a little different there.

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Speaker 2: They bear a lot of similarities. A lot of them

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Speaker 2: love sweet and sour, A lot of them are heavy

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Speaker 2: on the salt or umami, some like sauces. But one

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Speaker 2: of the big differences, or some of the big differences

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Speaker 2: is like where this area is located. Some of them

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Speaker 2: are coastal, so they incorporate a lot of seafood. Some

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Speaker 2: of them are colder, so there's like a lot of

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Speaker 2: soups and heavy noodles and like really really heavy flavors.

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Speaker 2: And then others are like, hey, we love panting around

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Speaker 2: the wilderness and catching deer, so they incorporate like local

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Speaker 2: wildlife into it. And usually what I've seen is when

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Speaker 2: when there's a lot of wildlife involved or game involved

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Speaker 2: in the recipes, they tend to let that flavor stand

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Speaker 2: on its own. It's not like heavy with sauces. That

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Speaker 2: kind of cuisine isn't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And they how they achieve spices kind of different

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Speaker 1: depending where you are too. Sometimes it's those numbing Chinese peppercorns.

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Speaker 1: You can't do those, No. Yeah, I've learned to eat

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Speaker 1: a lot of spicy food over the last like five

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Speaker 1: or six years and increase my spice level, but there's

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Speaker 1: something about the numbing peppercorn that's I have a hard

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Speaker 1: time with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's natural.

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Speaker 1: It's tough, but I can. You know, it depends on

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Speaker 1: the cuisine other sort, like the chilies that they use,

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Speaker 1: I can. I can handle that pretty well. Well. It's hot,

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Speaker 1: but I like it. And sometimes it's just the chili flakes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the little red chilis they'll sometimes serve hole with

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Speaker 2: the disc Yes, I can handle those two for sure. Cornible, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's tough. Yeah. And what I mean by handling those

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Speaker 2: little red chili peppers is that I eat around them.

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Speaker 1: Same here.

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Speaker 2: So the cuisine that most people in the United States

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Speaker 2: are familiar with is Cantonese. That's definitely like the first

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Speaker 2: kind of Chinese food that Americans adopted, and that has

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Speaker 2: a lot to do with the first wave of migrants

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Speaker 2: that came over to the United States. A lot of

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Speaker 2: them were from Canton. And as a matter of fact,

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Speaker 2: the first Chinese restaurant to open in all of North America,

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Speaker 2: I'm including Canada and Mexico here was called Canton and

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Speaker 2: it was in San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: That's right. I mean, if you've ever had dim sum,

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Speaker 1: that's Cantonese. If you've never had dim sum. I highly

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Speaker 1: recommend it. It's I hate to say like because it

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Speaker 1: used to annoy me when a certain person I knew

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Speaker 1: used to say like tortillas or like American bread, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, no, they're just tortillas. Who said that,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna tell you. I'll tell you offline. But

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, like, if you've ever had tapas,

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Speaker 1: dim sum is kind of like the Chinese version of tapas,

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Speaker 1: but it really is just dim sum. But it's like

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Speaker 1: shared small plates, a lot of steam stuff, but also

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Speaker 1: fried stuff, baked stuff, a lot of dumplings, right, a

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Speaker 1: lot of dumplings. You know. Just go to New York,

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Speaker 1: go to hopkey, get some dim sum and thank me later.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's amazing, I will thank you later. I've never

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Speaker 2: really had dim sum actually, and I think about it.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy. I mean, I like all kinds of food

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Speaker 1: in Chinatown and New York, but dim sum is definitely

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Speaker 1: one of them. But I'll also go to just the

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Speaker 1: you know, because if you're staying in a hotel, you

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Speaker 1: can't get these huge orders and just like take tons

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Speaker 1: and tons of food with you, right, So my move

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Speaker 1: now is generally just to pop down there. By myself

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Speaker 1: and get a couple of gigantic egg rolls.

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Speaker 2: You and the egg rolls. Huh wait, wait, we can't

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Speaker 2: talk about that. We have to save it for short stuff.

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Speaker 2: We forget I even said.

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Speaker 1: That, but you did mention. San Francisco in eighteen forty

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Speaker 1: nine was the first operating restaurant in North America, and

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Speaker 1: by eighteen fifty one, when the population of San Francisco

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Speaker 1: was but thirty four thousand and change, there were seven

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Speaker 1: full time Chinese restaurants open, which you know, for that

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Speaker 1: few people is pretty good for that time period.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not bad.

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Speaker 1: Like people liked it clearly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's a book that is going to come

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Speaker 2: up or we're going to draw from a lot in

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Speaker 2: this episode is called from Canton Restaurant to Panda Express

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Speaker 2: A History of Chinese Food in the United States by

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Speaker 2: Hi Ming Lao and Leo makes this this point that

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Speaker 2: a lot of like we tend to equate Chinese migrants

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Speaker 2: in the nineteenth century, especially to California, with like railroad workers,

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Speaker 2: maybe miners. We have like a certain idea of what

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Speaker 2: the Chinese migrants were at the time, and that is

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Speaker 2: a I mean, it's pretty stereotypical. It's also pretty narrow.

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Speaker 2: There were a lot of Chinese migrants who made their

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Speaker 2: way over just to feed the people in the Gold

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Speaker 2: Rush of eighteen forty nine in California. They were like,

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Speaker 2: people are going to need food, and we're going to

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Speaker 2: knock their socks off with Chinese food. And so they

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Speaker 2: started to go and open Chinese restaurants. And apparently you

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Speaker 2: could pick out a Chinese restaurant pretty easily because they

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Speaker 2: hung yellow flags outside.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is also sort of the kind of

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Speaker 1: right away when racist feelings toward Chinese immigrants started, racist

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Speaker 1: feelings toward their food even started arising out of the gate.

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Speaker 1: In Lao's book, there were some a couple of examples

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Speaker 1: that she cited. One was a criminal lawyer defending a

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Speaker 1: white client following their race riot in eighteen sixty five

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Speaker 1: and told the judge why, sir, and I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to say the racist Chinese name, but they live on rice,

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Speaker 1: and sir, they eat it with sticks. And then there

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Speaker 1: was a pamphlet from American Federation of Labor President Samuel

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Speaker 1: Gompers in nineteen oh two titled Some Reasons for Chinese

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Speaker 1: Exclusion colon Meat versus Rice, American manhood versus Asiatic coolism,

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Speaker 1: and apparently COOLi is a pejorita term for a low

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Speaker 1: age worker. Right, So it's all happening early on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. And it's interesting because and we'll talk

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Speaker 2: about immigration and racism, but those two things definitely shaped

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Speaker 2: Chinese food in America in some surprising ways as a

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Speaker 2: matter of fact, Yeah, for sure. So it turns out

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Speaker 2: that the oldest continuously operating Chinese restaurant in the United

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Speaker 2: States is Pekin without a g noodle parlor and where

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Speaker 2: else but Montana, right, And it started out as a

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Speaker 2: general store back in nineteen oh nine, but within two

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Speaker 2: years they added a noodle parlor, the very same noodle

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Speaker 2: parlor that's still opened today. And I guess at some

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Speaker 2: point they ran an illegal gambling parlor out of the basement,

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Speaker 2: but that has since been turned into an old navy.

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Speaker 1: Is that true, because that I could believe. Actually, if

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Speaker 1: you you know, I looked at that place to see

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Speaker 1: what it looked like, and it looks like a you know,

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Speaker 1: a Chinese restaurant and a building of an old West

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Speaker 1: Town man exactly what you might think. And there's a

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Speaker 1: big neon sign this is chop suey, And I realized

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Speaker 1: that chop suey is not a dish I've ever had,

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Speaker 1: But chop suey is sort of the beginning of Chinese

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Speaker 1: food in America. That's the dish that first sort of

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Speaker 1: captured young America's attention. And there's some debates on whether

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Speaker 1: or not it's even American in origin. And we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about chop suey right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if I've ever had it either,

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Speaker 2: but I think anytime you've ever made like a vague

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Speaker 2: Chinese surfry with chicken and vegeta and maybe like some

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Speaker 2: sort of thickish sauce, you basically made chop suey. Some

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Speaker 2: people say that you can make it with egg, but

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Speaker 2: those people are wrong. For the most part, is the

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Speaker 2: mixture of meat, vegetables of thick sauce, usually with rice.

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Speaker 2: And the name itself not only where it originated, but

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Speaker 2: the name itself is debatable what it means. I remember,

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Speaker 2: I think I might have learned this from Uncle John's

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Speaker 2: bathroom reader, that it meant leftovers in Chinese, so that

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Speaker 2: people from China coming to America would see chop suey house,

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Speaker 2: and they would think it would say like Leftover's house

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Speaker 2: to them. That's not exactly true, but it's not that

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Speaker 2: far off.

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Speaker 1: No, that's pretty close actually. Because some people say the

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Speaker 1: name came from Cantonese t sap top suey sui instead

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Speaker 1: of suey. That seems to be an American ice spelling

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Speaker 1: which is mixed bits or odds and ends aka probably leftovers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Leau, the author of the book, said that it

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Speaker 2: probably comes from chow chop suey or chow chop suey,

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Speaker 2: which some people call. It probably comes from the Cantonese

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Speaker 2: pronouncing a Mandarin chow's zuei chow meaning stir fry and

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Speaker 2: z azui meaning animal intestines. I tend to go with

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Speaker 2: the sap sue.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's just my take and it's almost meaningless,

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Speaker 2: but that's where I'm gonna go with. Since it's up

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Speaker 2: for debate.

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Speaker 1: I'm with you. I'll be in your camp.

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Speaker 2: Okay, thanks.

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Speaker 1: At least we can hang out and play cards.

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Speaker 2: What do you want to play?

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Speaker 1: I don't know a lot of card games. I like

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Speaker 1: Jin Rummy.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say gin Rummy too.

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Speaker 1: I do love spades. But we need Emily and U

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Speaker 1: me to come along.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's fair enough. They probably will anyway if we

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Speaker 2: end up in a camp together.

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Speaker 1: Because that means zombie apocalypse has happened.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or else the Russians have invaded all a red

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Speaker 2: dawn and you and I are alone in a men's camp,

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Speaker 2: which is really just a fenced off drive in Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Soon to die.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, that's a weird sidetrack a quote that and we're

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Speaker 1: going to explain the origins of this quote. But you

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Speaker 1: may have heard that Chop Suey is an American is

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Speaker 1: as American as pork and beans, and that actually comes

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Speaker 1: from a lawsuit from the early nineteen hundreds. In nineteen

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Speaker 1: oh four, a guy named lem Sen said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I invented Chop Suey. I made it for a Chinese

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Speaker 1: diplomat who visited in eighteen eighty six. And everybody making

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Speaker 1: this dishos me money.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of a bold law suit. Sure, I

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Speaker 2: don't even know who he sued.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't find it everybody, I guess, so.

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Speaker 2: Lem Sen versus all Chop Suey chefs, Yeah, exactly. So

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Speaker 2: he ended up dropping the suit. But The suit left

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Speaker 2: a huge mark on America. I mean like it was

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Speaker 2: reported on. It made the news for sure, and people

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Speaker 2: knew about it. And one reason why it became such

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Speaker 2: a big deal is because at the time, as we saw,

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Speaker 2: there was the Chinese Exclusion Act. So lem Suenn brought

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Speaker 2: his lawsuit in nineteen oh four. The Chinese Exclusion Act

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Speaker 2: was passed in eighteen eighty two. It was the first

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Speaker 2: time the United States had ever passed an immigration law

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Speaker 2: specifically targeted at one nationality. And it also basically laid

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Speaker 2: the foundation for exclusionary immigration laws and much tighter immigration

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Speaker 2: laws than we'd had before that we still have today.

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Speaker 2: But this was super tight. I read when they loosened

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Speaker 2: it up. The quota for Chinese immigrants was one hundred

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Speaker 2: and four Chinese immigrants per year.

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Speaker 1: Really wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And everybody was racist and against Chinese at the time, right, So,

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Speaker 2: but people also love Chop Suey by then, I mean

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Speaker 2: love Chop Suey. So lem Sen's lawsuit said, hey, you

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Speaker 2: can keep loving Chop Suey. I invented this in America.

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Speaker 2: It's really an American dish. So you can continue being

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Speaker 2: racist against Chinese immigrants while still loving Chop Suey, You're

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Speaker 2: welcome America, and America said thank you, get out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And he's the one who had the quote it's

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Speaker 1: as an American as pork and beans.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in the lawsuit. I think you said it too.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't find that quote. I couldn't find the lawsuit.

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Speaker 2: But even if it's not specifically in the lawsuit, it

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Speaker 2: definitely seems to have developed out of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But it's possible that it was Chinese in origin initially,

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Speaker 1: because apparently there are some dishes from the Pearl River

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Speaker 1: Delta that are pretty similar, and some of the earliest

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Speaker 1: Chinese migrants to the US were from that area. I

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Speaker 1: can't parse out what's so different from Chop suey than

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Speaker 1: any stirfry.

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Speaker 2: I don't know either. There's a lot of overlap between

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Speaker 2: Chinese dishes and including authentic cuisine, Yeah, but especially American Chinese.

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Speaker 2: I think it was. It was one of the first.

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Speaker 2: It was almost like an umbrella term for all Chinese

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Speaker 2: dishes in America at the turn of the last century,

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Speaker 2: kind of like smurf but with Chinese food essentially. And

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Speaker 2: I think because it was the first, a lot of

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Speaker 2: dishes that we recognize as like American Chinese developed out

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Speaker 2: of it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense. I do know that when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid going camping growing up in Georgia, I

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Speaker 1: loved nothing more than taking a can of Lachoi. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like veggies and sauce, basically.

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Speaker 2: Just sipping on it the whole weekend, a lot of water.

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Speaker 1: Justice, Yeah, put it my canteen and you know, making

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Speaker 1: some campfire rice and dumping that stuff on top, you know,

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Speaker 1: heating it up and dumping it on top. I thought

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Speaker 1: it was like the peak of you know, fine cuisine

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Speaker 1: in the woods.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I mean that's definitely better than you know,

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Speaker 2: a human finger that you found.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but they were. Lachoi was around since the nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirties doing that, you know, canned vegetable sauce. I was

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Speaker 1: gonna say trick, but you know it's a thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But I mean that's a great explanation of just

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Speaker 2: how crazy people were in America for chop suey. Lachoi

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Speaker 2: could pack it and sell for decades this stuff, and

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Speaker 2: people were nuts for it. Another sign, apparently, was that

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Speaker 2: by the turn of the last century, chop suey houses

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Speaker 2: were so popular they'd started to migrate out of Chinatown. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: which was a huge deal, and I should say in

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Speaker 2: Manhattan specifically. That was a big deal because I think

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Speaker 2: there were a lot of people who are like, I'd

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Speaker 2: love chop suey, but I don't want to go to Chinatown,

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Speaker 2: and these Chinese entrepreneurs said, hey, you don't need to anymore.

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Speaker 2: Here we are at I don't know, so ho right.

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Speaker 1: Another like pretty startling factoid is that it was in

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Speaker 1: well this part isn't. It was in the nineteen forty

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Speaker 1: two edition of the US Army Cookbook. But as a result,

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Speaker 1: when US troops were stationed overseas in China and Japan

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Speaker 1: and World War Two, restaurants would put chop suey on

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Speaker 1: the menu to cater to those American soldiers because they

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Speaker 1: came in were like, where's the chop suey?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we want a hot hamburger and chopsuit exactly. You

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Speaker 2: want to take a break, We're like twenty minutes.

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Speaker 1: Basically, Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and put it in

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Speaker 1: my order for pork fread rice and a girl.

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Speaker 2: I'm definitely getting Chinese food for dinner.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, shot.

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Speaker 2: Shot, all right, chuck, So we're back, and we talked

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Speaker 2: about how immigration laws and racism against Chinese migrants helped

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Speaker 2: shape Chinese food in America. And one of the first

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Speaker 2: ways that it did was that eighteen eighty two Chinese

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Speaker 2: Exclusion Act actually led to a plethora of much more

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Speaker 2: upscale these restaurants. And the reason why is because part

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Speaker 2: of that Exclusion Act is that certain kinds of businesses

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Speaker 2: could achieve merchant status, or the owners of certain kind

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Speaker 2: of businesses they had to be legitimate businesses that were

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Speaker 2: considered kind of higher end, and that if you had

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Speaker 2: merchant status, you could sponsor relatives to come to the

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Speaker 2: United States. And I guess in nineteen fifteen, a court

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Speaker 2: case got Chinese restaurants added to that merchant status clause.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this came from a historian named Heather Lee,

399
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,959
Speaker 1: and she makes the cas is like, you know, this

400
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Speaker 1: addition to that list basically meant you were going to

401
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Speaker 1: get a lot of like higher grade chop Suey palaces.

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00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 1: So the restaurants kind of got nicer, and you had

403
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Speaker 1: to in order to qualify. You also, if you were

404
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Speaker 1: an investor and owner, you had to spend a year

405
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Speaker 1: managing the restaurant as the manager and not like you know,

406
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Speaker 1: working in the kitchen or something like that. And you've needed,

407
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: of course, this had to be thrown in there. You

408
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Speaker 1: needed two white witnesses to vouch for them. But because

409
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Speaker 1: of these strict rules, you got again these these nicer

410
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Speaker 1: Chinese restaurants opening up that were qualifying for that merchant status.

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Speaker 1: And then you would get investors getting together and saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's start this restaurant. We'll take turns running it for

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Speaker 1: a year and get our family members over here. And

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Speaker 1: as a result, I mean, this is not the only reason,

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Speaker 1: but this definitely helped Chinese restaurants in the US double

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Speaker 1: between nineteen ten and nineteen twenty, and again between nineteen

417
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Speaker 1: twenty and nineteen thirty, and by nineteen thirty they had

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Speaker 1: overtaken laundries as the largest employers of Chinese workers in

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Speaker 1: the United States.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the first third of the twentieth century there

421
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Speaker 2: was a boom in Chinese restaurants, and in specifically higher

422
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Speaker 2: end Chinese restaurants. And then another boom happened after the

423
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Speaker 2: Immigration and Nationality Act of nineteen sixty five, which greatly

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Speaker 2: loosened restrictions on immigration, particularly from China and within a

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Speaker 2: decade of that act, the Chinese American population basically doubled,

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Speaker 2: which sounds eye popping, but don't forget there was only

427
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: like one hundred and four people coming in a year.

428
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Speaker 2: So it went from like, I don't know, three thousand

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Speaker 2: to six thousand in a decade.

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Speaker 1: There's more than that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely was. But the point is is that

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Speaker 2: now you had way more patrons of authentic Chinese restaurants,

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Speaker 2: which meant there were more authentic Chinese restaurants, and then

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Speaker 2: you also had more people who were ready to open

435
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 2: and staff more Chinese restaurants, So you had a huge

436
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 2: boom in Chinese restaurants again in the sixties to the seventies.

437
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And there was an article in twenty

438
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 1: fourteen in The New Yorker by Lauren Hilgers, and this

439
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: was eleven years ago, but I imagine it's not completely

440
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: different now. But how the labor arrangements work then and

441
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: probably these days is if there's a Chinese restaurant in

442
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: the US, there's more than forty thousand back then, and

443
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: there's probably a few more now. But that's a lot

444
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: of restaurants generally run by families. But staffed by new immigrants.

445
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 1: A lot of them are undocumented, a lot of them

446
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: apparently are coming from the Fujian province, and they're providing

447
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: the labor. So what will happen is they'll they'll have

448
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: a restaurant. A new immigrant will come to town, probably

449
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: a hub city. I think they concentrated on New York,

450
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: San Francisco, and Chicago for the article, but any major

451
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: city in the US probably, and they'll go to a

452
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 1: Chinese language employment agency and they'll say, all right, I

453
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: got a job for you. They'll say this in Chinese, though,

454
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: go get on this bus, here's the person's name, here's

455
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: their prone number, go to this restaurant, and you can

456
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: probably get a job there. And that's how they staff

457
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: their restaurants.

458
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Chuck, you mentioned the at least in twenty fourteen,

459
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: forty thousand Chinese restaurants in the United States. Yeah, which

460
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 2: is impressive in and of itself, But if you compare

461
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: it to McDonald's, which is you know, the benchmark comparison

462
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 2: for US. Yeah, there are thirteen six and twenty two

463
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 2: McDonald's in the United States. Wow, versus forty thousand Chinese restaurants.

464
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: There's probably well, there's not, because we know that number two.

465
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, there's probably fourteen thousand Panda expresses,

466
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 1: but we'll get to that later.

467
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's close.

468
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 1: The long and short of it is was with how

469
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: the staffing arrangement works is these cooks are moving around

470
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: a lot. They'll sometimes work at a place for just

471
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: a few months and go to a different restaurant, maybe

472
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: for better pay. Oftentimes outside of city centers you can

473
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: get paid more, which sort of surprised me. I guess

474
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: it makes sense though, But if you're getting Chinese food

475
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: for years and years from the same place, a lot

476
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: of times there will be a different cook every few months,

477
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: and hopefully you won't even notice.

478
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 2: Yeah. A lot of the reason you won't notice is

479
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: because the immigrants from Fujian. I could not find out

480
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 2: why the largest waves of migration lately have been coming

481
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 2: from Fujian, but they are. But they are coming and

482
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 2: buying Cantonese formerly Cantonese owned restaurants from the Cantonese owners

483
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: who founded them, and they're just keeping the menu the same,

484
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 2: because again this is American Chinese. Neither one's making the

485
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: cuisine necessarily that you would find in their provinces. In China,

486
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 2: they're making the American version. So if you have a

487
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: set menu, you're probably any chef's going to be able

488
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 2: to cook this stuff. I think.

489
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, now we're going to talk a little bit about

490
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: General So another classic Chinese dish that I've never had.

491
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: Oh really, now, I've never had it. I mean maybe

492
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: i've had it if someone else somewhere and they ordered

493
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: just a ton of food and I was kind of

494
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: just dumping all of it on the plate, which is

495
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: the best way to eat Chinese food. Yeah, but that's

496
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 1: something I've never ordered myself. I kind of just stick

497
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: to my main order and General So's chicken, is not it?

498
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 2: It's good. It's a are you just sour? No, it's

499
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 2: not even sour. It's like sweet and savory.

500
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: It's kind of spicy too, isn't it.

501
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 2: A little bit? But nothing anybody couldn't handle. I think

502
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: there's usually sesame seeds on it too.

503
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: It's good stuff, yeah, not like kung paw is the

504
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: real spicy one.

505
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and we all know who likes his kung

506
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: pow spicy.

507
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: There's a funny Judge John Hodgman episode about that too.

508
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: There's a funny dad, or at least he thought it

509
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: was funny, and his kids were trying to get him

510
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: to stop making the same joke over and over. Wherever

511
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: this guy goes, it could be like a toll booth worker.

512
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: We'll ask like what kind of ticket he wants, and

513
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: he'll say, I'll have the Kung paw chicken m hm.

514
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: And he'll just say that to answer any question asked

515
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: by anyone ever. Really, and the kids are really annoyed.

516
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: I think it's hysterical.

517
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is pretty funny, for sure, unless you're in

518
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,959
Speaker 2: a rush, because then you have to ask the question twice.

519
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I could also see how children of that

520
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: dad might get really sick of that joke.

521
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 2: Totally deads can be pretty embarrassing, except for this one. Yeah,

522
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: well not you, of course.

523
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: All right, So what are the origins of General So's chicken?

524
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 2: Actually, Chuck? There was a guy named Pencheng Wi k

525
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 2: U e I. He was from Hunan and he was

526
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 2: living in Taiwan at the time as part of the

527
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: Nationalist government. He was a chef for the Nationalist government

528
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 2: who was being visited in Taiwan by the chairman of

529
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 2: the US Joint chiefs of staff. So he created a

530
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 2: special dish that was in no way resembles what we

531
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: think of General So's chicken today. It was a very

532
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 2: heavy dish, sour, hot, saltya It was just not American.

533
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 2: There wasn't fried. But this dish was named after an actual,

534
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 2: real Honanese general from the Qing dynasty. His name was

535
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 2: Zuo Zong Tang or So Sung Tang, and you get

536
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 2: General So from that. I think he was a Minister

537
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 2: of Taiwan for a little while. It made sense to Paning,

538
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 2: and eventually it got exported to the United States, I

539
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: think in the seventies, and it just got totally transformed.

540
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, apparently if you're in the Boston area, it's going

541
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: to be called General Gal either Gau or Gao. Did

542
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: not know that.

543
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: I didn't know that either. But that doesn't sound totally

544
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 2: foreign to me, Like, I, well, it sounds a little form,

545
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like I feel like I've

546
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: heard that before something.

547
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I have too. So it may

548
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: exist outside of Boston, or maybe it's you know, just

549
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: more New England regional, but Chinese fuit is very popular

550
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: as a delivery thing. I can't remember the last time

551
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: I actually, actually I can rarely, rarely do I eat

552
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: in a Chinese restaurant, but I ate in Las Vegas.

553
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,959
Speaker 1: There's a very popular, very upscale Chinese restaurant in one

554
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: of the casinos, the kind of place where like a

555
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: week ahead of time, you tell them you want the duck,

556
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: that kind of deal. H and our friend, the show

557
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: in friend of ours, Adam Pranica, made that with Ben

558
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: Harrison and our booking agent and friend Josh Lincren and

559
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: all our wives. We all went and had this beautiful, big,

560
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: big meal. But almost always I'm ordering takeout or delivery

561
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: Chinese food and grubhub and this is ten years ago,

562
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: but they said that General Sou's Chicken was the most

563
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: popular dish that they deliver, fourth most popular overall, and

564
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: just last year they reported Chinese takeout is the or

565
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: delivery I guess is the third most popular food overall.

566
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: I guess behind pizza, and I can't think of what else.

567
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: I would figure Chinese would be second, but I don't know.

568
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: Pizza and take out lasagna maybe yeah, people love that.

569
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think this guy is from Grubhub named

570
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: Garfield was reporting on.

571
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: That nice that was a great joke, thank you. So

572
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 2: back in twenty twenty three, grub hub did say that

573
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: there are two cities where Chinese dish made the top

574
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: ten crab Rangoon and hold your emails, because we know

575
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 2: crab Rangoon is actually not a Chinese dish at all,

576
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 2: but it is found in just about every American Chinese

577
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: food place. It was invented by an American the restaurants

578
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 2: who are Victor Bergeron, whereas Polynesian themed chain Trader vis

579
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 2: Trade named after a city in Burma also known as

580
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: me and Mar and it has cream cheese, which is

581
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: as American as chop suey.

582
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I know I'm retelling this, but I'll have

583
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: to just quickly say. One of the funniest things from

584
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: when I was a kid was when I was like

585
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: twelve years old in a restaurant and there was a

586
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: gentleman ordering takeout from the counter and after like six

587
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: dishes in a row, he asked if it had cheese

588
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: on it, and the very kind restaurant owner kept saying no, no, no,

589
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: and at the very end he said, in his very

590
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: sweet broken English, that no Chinese food has cheese on it.

591
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: And I think the last time I told that story,

592
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: you and I thought about like a slice of American

593
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: cheese just on some stir fry. And then we're like,

594
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: I think we might want to try that.

595
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like something we would try for sure.

596
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, very funny childhood memory.

597
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: What else, Oh, hey, there's another reason that some Chinese

598
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: food became americanized.

599
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: Let's hear it.

600
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 2: Ingredients, that's right.

601
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of them were changed to fit

602
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: our tastes, including the ingredient sometimes. One example that Laura found,

603
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: of course, is beef with broccoli that is not you know,

604
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: they don't have that kind of you know, as far

605
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: as I know, they don't have that kind of broccoli

606
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: in China. What they use is Chinese broccoli or guy lahn,

607
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: which if you look that up, it looks it's more

608
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: like bakchoi than what we think of as broccoli.

609
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was like, where's broccoli from? Turns out

610
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: the Mediterranean?

611
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: Okay.

612
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 2: It was, according to legend, brought to America by Thomas Jefferson,

613
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: who grew it experimentally in his garden. And they like

614
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: to fart. Yep, he said this is gonna make me

615
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: blow and then it was it took off in popularity

616
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 2: in the US in the nineteen twenties. Didn't see why,

617
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: but it did.

618
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: Believe me, Well, we got to talk a little bit

619
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: about fortune cookies because that is not Chinese either. That

620
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: is originally adopted from something called the Japanese cracker, which

621
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: is a savory thing. But in the early twentieth century,

622
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: Chinese restaurants were owned a lot of times by Japanese people.

623
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: Japanese bakeries were making these cookies, and then after Japanese

624
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: in tournament, a lot of Chinese Americans took over these

625
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: cookie factories. And that got me down the road of like, well,

626
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: who's writing the fortunes. There's a guy named Donald Lao

627
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: who's a CFO of Wantan Food Company, the largest fortune

628
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: cookie maker in the world, and he was the sole writer,

629
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: or has been for thirty years of writing these fortune cookies.

630
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: I don't remember specifically talking about him or his name,

631
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: but there's no way we don't talk about him in

632
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: our fortune cookie short stuff from twenty twenty two.

633
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: If we missed him, I can't believe we would miss

634
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: that guy's no way. But as a recap he he

635
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: wrote him for thirty years. He used to write two

636
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: to three per day. Now it's two or three per

637
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: month because they have just thousands of them. And he

638
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,919
Speaker 1: got that job by default because he spoke the best

639
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: English at the company. And his quote is I am

640
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: the most read author in the United States.

641
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: I believe it for sure.

642
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: It's pretty great.

643
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 2: And then we got to talk about a couple of

644
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,959
Speaker 2: regional specialties. Saint Louis. I remember when we went there.

645
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 2: We when we get back to touring again, I really

646
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 2: want to go to Saint Louis. Everyone there was crazy nice.

647
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: Yep.

648
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: They had really cool, like regional foods that you couldn't

649
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: find anywhere else, like good stuff. Oh is this a

650
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 2: good town? I want to go back. But I also

651
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 2: want to try the Saint Paul sandwich. There is eggfou young,

652
00:34:58,520 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 2: but a sandwich.

653
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

654
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 2: So you've got an omelet with vegetables, a meat or

655
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 2: seafood topped with brown gravy on a sandwich. So you've

656
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 2: got mayo, pickle, lettuce, all that stuff. It sounds just

657
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 2: totally off the chain, and I really want to try it.

658
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: There's another one, and I don't know if you looked

659
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: up a picture of this thing. No, I didn't, but

660
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: if you go to Fall River, Massachusetts, do you have

661
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: your phone with you or a computer or it means

662
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: of looking up a photo.

663
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, let me do that.

664
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: While I'm doing this, you should check this out. It's

665
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: called a chow main sandwich. It hails from Fall River, Massachusetts,

666
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: but it's in surrounding towns there, and who knows, maybe

667
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: elsewhere in New England. But it is exactly what it

668
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: sounds like. It's chowmain on a sandwich on like a

669
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: hamburger bun. But if you look this thing up, it's

670
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: not a sandwich it is. You can't see the bottom bun.

671
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: It is just chow main all over a plate. I

672
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: guess there's a bun underneath, and there's just a hamburger

673
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,240
Speaker 1: bun sitting on top. Like it is a full plate

674
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 1: of chow main with just a fun in there somewhere.

675
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: It's not the kind of thing you would ever pick

676
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: up and eat as a sandwich.

677
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: It looks like cousin Nit wearing his hat, actually a

678
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 2: little derby hamburger bun hat. Yeah, it's ostentatious to say

679
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: the least, for sure.

680
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, should we take another break? Yeah, all right, we'll

681
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: take another break and we'll finish up with an ode

682
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: to Panda Express and PF Changs right after this shot shot.

683
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: All right, so we're gonna start off talking a little

684
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: bit about how PF Changs came about a restaurant that

685
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: I think I might have been to once. I definitely

686
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: picked it up a lot as a PA in the

687
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: film business US for like big production meetings. So I

688
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: can't speak to its quality. It's supposed to be pretty good, right.

689
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: PF Chang's Yeah, yeah, it's it's good. I mean, especially

690
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 2: for comparing chain typical. I would not call it a

691
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,280
Speaker 2: high end chain, no more than you'd call cheesecake factory

692
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 2: a high end chain. Well, it's it's virtually on the

693
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 2: same level of dining. Okay, I'm not taking a shot

694
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: at it. I'm just saying, like, it's not It's not

695
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: like the place that you went to in Vegas or

696
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 2: or Peaking Duck in fall I think Fall Falls Church, Virginia,

697
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 2: which is an amazing spot. It's just like you can

698
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 2: go to a mall and there might be one attached

699
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: to it if it's a nice mall. Regardless, it is tasty,

700
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 2: especially compared to like Chinese takeout. It's definitely several steps

701
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: up from that. Okay, I got it's just really hard

702
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: to like what high end restaurant has three hundreds now, Like,

703
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: when you have three hundred locations, you're starting to work

704
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 2: in economies of scale. It's really tough to keep like

705
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 2: any kind of cuisine just top notch in that sense.

706
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And I want to quickly plug since

707
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: you mentioned Cheesecake Factory, are again friends of the show

708
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 1: and friends in real life. Adam Pranica and Ben Harrison

709
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 1: of the Greatest Generation podcast have a side podcast called

710
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 1: Factory Seconds where they're working their way through the menu

711
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: of the Cheesecake Factory, one item at a time.

712
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 2: Those two could not be any greater American treasures.

713
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty great.

714
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 2: I love it.

715
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: Adam's uncle actually is the voice of the Memphis Grizzlies

716
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: as the announcer basketball team. And apparently Cheesecake Factory is

717
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: huge with NBA players, And I was like why, and

718
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: his uncle he was like, because there's one in every city.

719
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: It's the same menu. It's a huge menu, the portions

720
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 1: are huge, and they and the quality is always the same.

721
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: Economies of scale.

722
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: Well, I was wrong. Apparently they make all their stuff fresh.

723
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: It's not like bagged food.

724
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 2: Oh, if you believe that, I actually no, I don't.

725
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 1: It's true.

726
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 2: Huh. That is a little surprising. But I mean it's

727
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 2: not like I'm hating on cheesecake factory.

728
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: It's just I've never been.

729
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 2: Oh, it's they have a really varied menu, that's yeah. Yeah,

730
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,399
Speaker 2: the portions are gigantic and their cheesecakes are pretty great.

731
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I'm going to be a guest on

732
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: that show at some point. So next time in LA

733
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 1: We're going to go to one and then I'm going

734
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: to be a guest and okay, good. Anyway, A long

735
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: way around describing PF. Chang's, there was a woman named

736
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 1: Cecilia Chiang with an I in there from San Francisco

737
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,959
Speaker 1: and she and I believe before nineteen sixty five, before

738
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: that immigration law, opened a high end restaurant there called Mandarin.

739
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: And she said, no Chop suey in my menu, and

740
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: no Eggfu Young. All this Chinatown stuff is a no no.

741
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: And she owned a restaurant, a Chinese restaurant in Tokyo

742
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: years ago, and her husband got a diplomatic post there,

743
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: so that's why she was doing Chinese food there and

744
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: Mandarin opened in nineteen sixty one, and that's where all

745
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: of a sudden people are exposed to like kung pou,

746
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: chicken tea, smoked duck, mushue, pork pot stickers, like some

747
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: of the really good stuff and authentic stuff. Yeah exactly.

748
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: She sold her son, Philip the restaurant Mandarin in nineteen

749
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: eighty nine, and he is one of the co founders

750
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: of PF Changs.

751
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, Philip F. Chang, but he dropped the I exactly.

752
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 2: So PF Chang's pretty large chain, three hundred restaurants. It's

753
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: definitely nothing to sneeze at. But if you really want

754
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 2: to talk economy of scales, let's talk Panda Express. They

755
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 2: have two thousand more restaurants than PF Chang's does twenty

756
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 2: three hundred in the United States.

757
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, food Court City.

758
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, have you had Panda Express?

759
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: Yeah? I have. I used to do it when I

760
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: was younger. I'm not going to say it's like not

761
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: any good, but you know, it's Chinese fast food, and

762
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: it's just not something I would eat now. I would

763
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: in a pinch. It's not like I'd turn my nose

764
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: up at it. But I have been there before you.

765
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, a couple of times. And yeah, it is fast food,

766
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 2: and it's great for fast food. It's just such a

767
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: it's just different. It's not you know, Taco Bell or

768
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: McDonald's or even like Chipotle or something. It's just Chinese version,

769
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 2: the Chinese version of fast food.

770
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it. Apparently it's a family run business though,

771
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: even though it's this huge chain, and in the seventies

772
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: they just had a few little sit down restaurants and

773
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: it kind of grew very naturally and organically as this

774
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: family business, which I never knew, which is pretty cool.

775
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 2: And if you're a fan of orange Chicken, you can

776
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 2: thank your friends at Panda Express because they debuted it

777
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty seven and now you can find it

778
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 2: basically everywhere. But they were the ones who came up

779
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 2: with it.

780
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's your order in a Chinese restaurant or for takeout?

781
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 2: I'm trying some hunan to know because I don't normally

782
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 2: eat that and I want to see what it's like.

783
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 2: But typically a garlic chicken of some sort. I like

784
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: savory brown sauces, umami brown sauces, usually chicken. If I'm

785
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: really feeling crazy, maybe like a happy family or something

786
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 2: like that.

787
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: Are you white rice or fried rice?

788
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 2: White steamed rice?

789
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 1: M boy, I gotta have that fried rice.

790
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's too many peas and fried rice and

791
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 2: peas are one of my most hated things on the

792
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 2: entire planet.

793
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: Oh I love peas.

794
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:28,919
Speaker 2: Eat.

795
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta get that fried rice. I'll get a

796
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 1: lot of sweet and sour chicken or ses some me chicken.

797
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: Got to get the egg roll. I'll take a beef

798
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: and broccoli if people have ordered it, but that's not

799
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: my order. But I'll also try a lot of stuff.

800
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: If I'm at a big group and someone's just ordering

801
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: a bunch of Chinese food, I'll eat almost all of it.

802
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 2: Do you ask them first?

803
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: What like what to order? No?

804
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 2: Can I have some of your orders?

805
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: Oh?

806
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

807
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: And then you know, if you're in a place not

808
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: all cities have this stuff. But if you're in a

809
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: place that has the really good, authentic stuff and you

810
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: get dim sum or some pork buns or soup dumplings,

811
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: like all that stuff is great, but you can't find

812
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 1: that everywhere.

813
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 2: No, I really want some Chinese food.

814
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: Now it's gonna happen. That's the first thing I ordered

815
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: after our week at the beach in South Carolina, after

816
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: eating you know, coastal seafood, American seafood, I was like,

817
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: I can eat some Chinese food.

818
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 2: So America is not the only place that took Chinese

819
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 2: food and said here you meat this orange and squeezed

820
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 2: it together and then fried it. That's like I said

821
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 2: at the outs, That's happened all over the world. And

822
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 2: apparently I'm not on TikTok much as an ever, but

823
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 2: there was a thing on TikTok a couple of years

824
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 2: ago where American people picked up on UK British Chinese

825
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 2: food and We're like, what are you guys doing over there?

826
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. I didn't see any of that either, but apparently

827
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: it was pretty funny. Apparently the food in the UK,

828
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: the Chinese food is a lot different than here in America.

829
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 1: It is very popular over there, maybe even one of

830
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: the top two, maybe even the top food in the country.

831
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 2: I saw that. It definitely was by a long shot.

832
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: Oh really, Okay, so they love it over there. They

833
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 1: will have things like French fries, what they call chips,

834
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: a lot of curry sauces, which is different than us

835
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of great Indian food obviously in

836
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: England and throughout the UK. And they also have something

837
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 1: called a chicken ball, and that's just what they call it.

838
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: I looked it up. I tried to find any difference.

839
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: It looks like the exact same thing we get here

840
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: in like a sweet and sour chicken. It's just a fried,

841
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: little chunk of chicken.

842
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, which everybody loves. Even if you don't need chicken,

843
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: you'll eat that.

844
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: I couldn't determine though from looking at first, if it

845
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: was ground like a meatball, but it's not. And they're

846
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: not even usually round. They're just you know, chicken chained. Yeah,

847
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: like a little chicken finger kind of thing.

848
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 2: Man. So poor chicken meat has been like subjected to

849
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 2: so many different indignantities over the eat, you know, more

850
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 2: than any other meat.

851
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

852
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: So India also has a version of Chinese food that's

853
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 2: so popular that some Indian restaurants in the US. I've

854
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 2: not seen this, but they'll sometimes have dishes there called

855
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 2: Manchurian something or other. Yeah, and that I mean I

856
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 2: didn't either, I've never run across that. And then in

857
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: some cities, if the city's big enough, they might have

858
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: like full on Indian Chinese restaurants there where it's the

859
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 2: Indian version of Chinese, just like if you had an

860
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 2: American version of the Chinese food in India, there's probably

861
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 2: some sort of cultural exchange, like they open one here,

862
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 2: we have to open one there. It's got to be balanced.

863
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 1: It's contractual, the same for Latin America. In the United States,

864
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,439
Speaker 1: Chinese Cuban restaurants started opening in New York City, of course,

865
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, and then what they call would

866
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: it be China Latino?

867
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 2: I'm going with Chino Latino.

868
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 1: I mean, China Latino is what I want to say,

869
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: because it sounds so great.

870
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 2: Mm hm.

871
00:45:57,719 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: I just wasn't sure if that was right. But they

872
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 1: started opening later on. They're in decline in New York now,

873
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: but apparently, just like everywhere over the course of centuries,

874
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: Chinese workers were brought over to Latin America for a

875
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: lot of reasons, but usually servitude. Sadly, but again, they

876
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: brought their food with them, and their food existed alongside

877
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: stuff like Cuban food and Peruvian food, and then they

878
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: start to blend it together, and all of a sudden

879
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: you have these cool like sort of mix up dishes.

880
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to try all of these.

881
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 1: I do too.

882
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 2: And then apparently also South Africa has Afro Cantonese and

883
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 2: that was again developed out of a Chinese community that

884
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,399
Speaker 2: were brought there as indentured workers back all the way

885
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 2: back in the nineteenth century. Basically just like America, and

886
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 2: also just like America, as more and more Chinese immigrants

887
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: have come higher end, more Chinese authentic dishes have kind

888
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 2: of become more favorited than just the Afro Cantonese version.

889
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: Afro Cantonese just to my ear, sounds delicious.

890
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah again, I said it before and I'll say

891
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: it again. I really want some Chinese food right now.

892
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna happen, and we're recording earlier, so it's

893
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: like creeping onto lunchtime right now.

894
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 2: Oh are you doing it for lunch? I'm gonna make

895
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: myself wait until dinner and really ttilate myself.

896
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, I can't get it for lunch.

897
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: I'll uh well, I'll probably do skip lunch and order

898
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 1: it for dinner.

899
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 2: There you go.

900
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: But this has inspired me to I've been wanting to

901
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: do an episode on Cajun food, but it was very intimidating,

902
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 1: like Cajun sort of creole stuff because there's so many influences.

903
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: I was just like, we're gonna screw it up, but this,

904
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: this is uh maybe more brave.

905
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 2: Well, if we do Cajun food, we have to consult

906
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 2: our good friend and friend of the show, Doug Shasherie.

907
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, m hm, oh that's right Doug.

908
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, when he brought us a Boudine balls at our

909
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 2: New Orleans show and we ate him on stage.

910
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, what a guy. He's great.

911
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 2: Oh, he's wonderful. So yeah, Plus his last name Sashery,

912
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 2: so he knows what he's talking about Cajun food. That's right. Well,

913
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 2: since we talked about our friend Doug Shasherie here on

914
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: the episode, as was predicted back in two thousand and eight.

915
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 2: By the way, Chuck, today's the seventeenth anniversary of stuff

916
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 2: you should know today. Yeah, happy anniversary, baby.

917
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: Wow, happy anniversary love.

918
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, anyway, onto it, as was predicted back in

919
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight. Since we said Doug Shasheri's name,

920
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 2: we've unlocked listener mail boy.

921
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: That's about as fan fairy as we get.

922
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 2: Huh, yeah, we don't. Yeah, we don't do that. Kind

923
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 2: of stuff, you know. I mean, we don't do media

924
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 2: tours or anything and say look at us, everybody, look

925
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 2: at us. You know, we do that every week anyway.

926
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: Who wants to do that? This is a correction. Hey, guys,

927
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: heard your short stuff on Tulipmania and wanted to point

928
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,439
Speaker 1: out that Tulipmania is now largely believed to be a myth.

929
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:50,919
Speaker 1: I only found out about that a few years ago

930
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: myself when I heard an interview from the author Anne Goldgar.

931
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: She discovered the historical reality when she dug into the

932
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 1: archives to research her book Tulipmania and Money, Honor and

933
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 1: Knowledge in the Dutch Golden Age. The myth was largely

934
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: promulgated great word by Scottsman Charles Mackie in his book

935
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 1: Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, and he

936
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: sent along articles from Smithsonian and History dot Com and

937
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: even Wikipedia that said although McKay's I'm sorry Mackie's book

938
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: is a classic, citation needed, his account is contested citation needed.

939
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: Many modern scholars believe that the mania was not as

940
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: destructive as described A little behind on some of the

941
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: show's guys. Perhaps others have written in but no one

942
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: else has written in, Richard, so you're the only one.

943
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: So way to go.

944
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 2: I've seen that on the Internet's here there since we

945
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: released it. But I mean, honestly, Chuck, we used a

946
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 2: lot of different sources for that, and yeah, I mean, yes,

947
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: you can make a case that it was exaggerated, but

948
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 2: the idea that it's a myth is I did not

949
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 2: run across that, but who knows, and if it was,

950
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 2: then a lot of may that we released an episode

951
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 2: where we were catfished by.

952
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: History by the tulipmaniacs.

953
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 2: We'll have to get to the bottom of it. Who

954
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 2: wrote that, Richard? Thanks a lot, Richard. We appreciate that.

955
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 2: Thank you for sending us straight publicly. And if you

956
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 2: want to be like Richard and set us straight publicly,

957
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 2: you can send us an email to send it off

958
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 2: to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

959
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

960
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

961
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,280
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.