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Speaker 1: The volume.

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Speaker 2: This is straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. What is up

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Speaker 2: straight Fire, Fam, It's me Jason McIntyre. Straight Fire for Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: June twentieth. NBA Draft is nearly upon US. Soccer is popping.

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Speaker 2: Football is on the horizon. You can sense it. Apologies

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Speaker 2: to the golf fans who let me know on social

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Speaker 2: media that I did not do enough US open talk. Sorry, guys,

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Speaker 2: you know, listen, the dads out there will know when

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Speaker 2: you've got kids and a wife and it's Father's Day

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Speaker 2: weekend and got a kind of pick your choices. It

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Speaker 2: sound like I had a lot of free time to

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Speaker 2: sit around and watch golf. Sorry, I did not check

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Speaker 2: it out. Maybe the next big golf tournament I will check.

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Speaker 2: I would like to get on the links at some

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Speaker 2: point this summer, although I will say buddy of mine

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Speaker 2: and said, let's play tennis, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I haven't played in a while. And then I noticed

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Speaker 2: there's a tennis tournament coming up in about a month.

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Speaker 2: And you know me, I entered soccer tournaments, basketball leagues.

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Speaker 2: I gotta try to win. I made the semifinals of

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Speaker 2: this tournament twice. Last year I lost on the quarters

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Speaker 2: and then I was like, all right, forget this, I

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Speaker 2: gotta get into tennis. I joined a tennis ladder and

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Speaker 2: I did pretty well in it. And then I, you know,

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Speaker 2: basketball came back and I was like, all right, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, I got to get back to the basketball league.

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Speaker 2: So I haven't played tennis in a while. So now

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna cram I'm gonna be like that guy Kramming

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Speaker 2: for the final exam, and I'm gonna try to play

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Speaker 2: a lot of tennis here in the next few weeks

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Speaker 2: leading up to the tournament. But NBA Draft is coming

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Speaker 2: up on Thursday. Now. We recorded an interview with Matt

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Speaker 2: Babcock of Draft Fame. Obviously, you guys probably know his

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Speaker 2: dad was in the front office with the Bucks. We

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Speaker 2: have had him on before. He's really good on the

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Speaker 2: draft and break it down prospects. He had two uncles

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Speaker 2: were GM's in the NBA, so he's got a lot

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Speaker 2: of knowledge on the NBA front And obviously he's now

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Speaker 2: with Draft Digest as an NBA draft analyst. The guy

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Speaker 2: knows his stuff in the prospects and we break them

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Speaker 2: all down and listen to draft's getting fascinating. We'll see

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Speaker 2: what's up with Portland? And three a lot you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of hinges on what may or may not happen

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Speaker 2: with Zion Williamson. And yes, I saw what his lady

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Speaker 2: former friend was putting out on social media. Don't recommend

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Speaker 2: checking it. You might get a virus.

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Speaker 1: Just kidding.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's get to our guest, Matt Babcock of

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Speaker 2: Draft Digest.

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Speaker 1: You know a guy Jason likes to think he knows

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Speaker 1: everything when it comes to sports.

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Speaker 2: I know what sports fans want.

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Speaker 1: But for everything he doesn't. He knows a guy who does.

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Speaker 1: Let's just say I know a guy who knows a

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Speaker 1: guy who knows another guy.

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Speaker 2: We have a special guest ushering in all our draft talk.

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Speaker 2: A lot of stuff moving around the board. Possibly trades

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Speaker 2: at two, three, four with Houston, maybe Detroit at five.

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Speaker 2: Do they slide down if they're guy's not there? So

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Speaker 2: do talk NBA Draft and all things twenty twenty three

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Speaker 2: draft class. We're bringing in Matt Babcock. We have I

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Speaker 2: think we've had him on the last two years leading

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Speaker 2: into the draft. Matt, how you doing, I'm doing great.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Thanks for having me as always.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Matt obviously has been with Draft Digest SI.

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Speaker 2: Now he's been following the draft docu series about the draft.

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Speaker 2: I meant Matt's been around the block, obviously, I am

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Speaker 2: curious before we get started. A lot of chatter that

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Speaker 2: this is like a three player draft. Matter you buying that?

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Speaker 2: With Scoot and Brandon Miller plus obviously Big Vic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean those are my top three guys. I

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Speaker 1: would put the Thompson Twins, you know, right right behind them.

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Speaker 1: But you know that top three, I think it is

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty spot on.

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Speaker 2: I mean it feels like Kim Whitmore could crash the

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Speaker 2: party between youth the great Villanova system that's produced a

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Speaker 2: lot of good players. Do you think Whitmore maybe could

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Speaker 2: could crack the Thompson Twins. Who A lot of people,

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Speaker 2: you know, casual basketball fans are like Thompson Twins. I

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Speaker 2: didn't see them in the NCAA tournament, and they're not

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Speaker 2: really that familiar with them. We know Scoot Henderson went

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Speaker 2: against Wee Binyama head to head, But where are you

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Speaker 2: on the Thompson Twins versus Whitmore, the Villainova star?

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Speaker 1: You know, I have the Thompson Twins ahead of Whitmore,

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Speaker 1: and I think one thing that's happening with you know,

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Speaker 1: a few picks, you know, Houston at four, Detroit at five.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of it is is the fit.

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Speaker 1: You know, Cam Whitmore is no off ball hybrid forward,

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Speaker 1: uh you know, kind of can fit along on ball creators.

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Speaker 1: Whereas the Thompson Twins, you know, they're big, big, you know,

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Speaker 1: ball handling playmakers, and so like with Detroit, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know with a men Thompson or Starr Thompson fit

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Speaker 1: well with Kate Cunningham and Jaden Ivy, and then in

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Speaker 1: Houston kind of the same thing. I mean that you know,

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Speaker 1: the rumors to be going after you know, established ballhanders

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Speaker 1: like Harden or Kyrie Irvy and or even Austin Reeves

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Speaker 1: you know'll come from LA and free agency. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: me personally, I've got the Thompson Twins higher, but I

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Speaker 1: mean Moore's close as well.

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Speaker 2: One of my issues with the Thompson Twins I look

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Speaker 2: at them and I see a lot of and I'm

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Speaker 2: sure you remember this guy Justice Winslow from Duke. I

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Speaker 2: think physically and athletically, and they're a little bit taller.

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Speaker 2: I think there was closer six seven to six eighth.

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Speaker 2: Then he was Winslow was like a six to six.

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Speaker 2: But I was so bullish on Winslow and I loved

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Speaker 2: his game at Duke. He could do everything basically, shooting

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Speaker 2: was a bit of a question. And then he gets

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Speaker 2: to the league member there was a rumor about Danny

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Speaker 2: Ainge was going to trade like four picks for him,

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Speaker 2: and he just didn't really pop. He did have some injuries.

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Speaker 2: Who would you say, are is like an NBA comp

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Speaker 2: for the Thompson Twins. And I know that's not a

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Speaker 2: great comp of wins Winslow given he didn't really amount

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Speaker 2: to much.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't have a perfect comp but you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean they're they're big, do it all, you know,

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Speaker 1: super athletic players, and you know, I think one one

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Speaker 1: difference between them and Winslow and move for one, I

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Speaker 1: think there are a whole other level of athletes. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they're like Olympic level type athletes and much better ball skills,

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Speaker 1: just natural guard skills all the way around. The biggest

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Speaker 1: thing with them is outside shooting, but they I mean,

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Speaker 1: they really do a little bit of everything other other

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Speaker 1: than the shooting.

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Speaker 2: I think Houston is at four correct, yep, Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: Houston's picking A four and that's where the draft may

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Speaker 2: or may not move around a lot. Given the James

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Speaker 2: Harden rumors, I think Houston's first round pick next year

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Speaker 2: is like top three or four protected. So they kind

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Speaker 2: of want to win. Do you think that would incentivize

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Speaker 2: them to maybe move this in some kind of deal

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Speaker 2: before the draft?

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Speaker 1: You know, I mean I think all the all these teams,

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Speaker 1: I mean, if they're you know, they're doing their job

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Speaker 1: right there, they're looking at options. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that they would be u be remiss not

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Speaker 1: not to you know, kind of you know, do their

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Speaker 1: due diligence. But you know, if it were me, I

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Speaker 1: would take the men Thompson. You know, you haven't beat

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Speaker 1: their lead guard. I think they've got, you know, some

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Speaker 1: nice young pieces and they're rebuild mode and I think

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Speaker 1: there are ways a way, you know, for being win

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Speaker 1: down mode. So my personal preference calls then that would

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Speaker 1: be to take men Thompson.

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Speaker 2: So so let's go up to two. We know Women

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Speaker 2: Yama is one. We can get to him later. But uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, sitting at too Charlotte, we just saw Michael

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Speaker 2: Jordan is no longer the majority owner. He sold to

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Speaker 2: a couple of guys who I don't know if we

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Speaker 2: want to get into talking about them. But I think

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Speaker 2: the interesting angle here is do they want to sit

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Speaker 2: at two or this Pelican scuttle? But about Zion Williamson

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Speaker 2: and New Orleans looking to get off him. Depending on

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Speaker 2: who you read and talk to, there's nothing to Zion,

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Speaker 2: or there's a lot Zion back to Carolina or or

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Speaker 2: that region would be awesome. Obviously it's a high risk,

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Speaker 2: high reward play. But I don't know Scoot Henderson. I

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Speaker 2: believe the last time we talked, you really like Scoot

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Speaker 2: a lot. What do you what do you what do

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Speaker 2: you read on Charlotte here at too?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I've heard the rumors about Jordan's selling

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Speaker 1: for a while. I think that the timings very interesting.

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Speaker 1: I'm they're gonna do it, yeah, right right before they

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Speaker 1: take you know, a really big pick or trade, you know,

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Speaker 1: really big pick. And yeah, it's it's uh, it's interesting,

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Speaker 1: right And you know if it were me, you know

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Speaker 1: Scoot Henderson, Yeah, you're absolutely right. I love him, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love his talent. I love Brandon Miller's talent. The

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Speaker 1: separator from me is is scoops mindset and approach. He's

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Speaker 1: got that Kobe Bryant, you know, Mamba mentality, Damian Lillard

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Speaker 1: to kind of focus, and that's really confident. He's going

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Speaker 1: to maximize his potential. And it's the kind of guy

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Speaker 1: you want to build around. And you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: similar to what I was saying with the Thompson Twins,

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Speaker 1: I think the issue at Charlotte potentially is his fit

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Speaker 1: with LaMelo Ball. You know, they're both on ball creators,

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Speaker 1: even though they have totally different body types, they're essentially

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Speaker 1: lead guards and it would be a deal where there's

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Speaker 1: too many cooks in the kitchen. If it were me,

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Speaker 1: I'm not passing on a Scoot. I really like Brandon Miller.

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Speaker 1: But Scoos is one of those guys that doesn't come

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Speaker 1: around that often that you know, let me, I guess,

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Speaker 1: let me put it this way, I would be quicker

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Speaker 1: to look at trading LaMelo Ball then I would be

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Speaker 1: to pass on Scoot And not saying that's what I

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Speaker 1: would do, but I mean, you know, there was like

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Speaker 1: a you know, a big internal debate you know with

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Speaker 1: the coaching staff, Hey, we can't play these two guys

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Speaker 1: that that's something I would I would bring to the

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Speaker 1: table because I mean, I mean think about this, and

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Speaker 1: I think about the return you would get if you

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Speaker 1: did put LaMelo on on the trading block. And so

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Speaker 1: again my point there is not to be a jab

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Speaker 1: at LaMelo and say they should move him. It's just,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's how confident I am and scowed well

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Speaker 1: that you know.

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Speaker 2: I honestly I have not even considered the idea that

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Speaker 2: LaMelo could get traded. But first of all, you said,

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Speaker 2: you know they're both on ball guys. If I remember

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Speaker 2: when Curry came into the league, I think he started

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Speaker 2: as a shooting guard at Davidson, then kind of pivoted

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Speaker 2: to point guard when they lost their point guard to graduation.

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Speaker 2: So Curry comes into the league and he's like next

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Speaker 2: to Monta Ellis, and it just really they tried it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it was a year or two,

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Speaker 2: but they quickly decided this doesn't work. We're gonna ride

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Speaker 2: with Curry. And I wonder, do you think that's a

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Speaker 2: similar situation. Obviously Monte Ellis was just a scorer. LaMelo

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Speaker 2: ball can create. But now that I think about it,

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Speaker 2: you're probably right. I don't know that those two would

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Speaker 2: necessarily fit. Could can Namelo play off the ball really well?

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Speaker 1: I think what would have happened? I mean defensively, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be that concern is Screwed is built like a tank,

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Speaker 1: you know, of a guard. Even though he's only six

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Speaker 1: two sixty three, it's got long arms and he is

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Speaker 1: so explosive and powerful. So I I think he and

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Speaker 1: Lamelow could could handle backcoards decently on the defensive end. Offensively,

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Speaker 1: I mean compared to you know, with Steph Curry Montals

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Speaker 1: at that time where the NBA was at, I think

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Speaker 1: the game's changed quite a bit where teams are using

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Speaker 1: more ball handlers. So I do think there's a world

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Speaker 1: where they kind of open it up and you kind

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Speaker 1: of split you know, split time, kind of putting pressure

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Speaker 1: on the defense being playmakers. And I think, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think in that Snearre both of them need to

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Speaker 1: improve his outside shooters just to kind of keep that

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Speaker 1: floor spacing and you know, you keep them both as

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Speaker 1: somewhat of threats off the ball, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think there's a world you could make it work.

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Speaker 1: But your Brandon Miller style of play wise does fit,

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Speaker 1: you know more seamlessly, and I think that's why you

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Speaker 1: know his name. He's you know, popping up. But you know, again,

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Speaker 1: if it's me, I'm not passing on scuber GARSA what

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Speaker 1: team I am?

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Speaker 2: I think I'm probably with you. I'm looking at LaMelo

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Speaker 2: shooting again. He's only twenty one, but from three, you know,

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Speaker 2: he's averaged like ten threes a game. It is interesting, though,

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Speaker 2: you look at the Nuggets, and I do want to

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Speaker 2: ask about the Nuggets because I feel like they didn't

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Speaker 2: have a pure point guard. Jamal Murray I always thought

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Speaker 2: was a combo if anything, a two. He's listed in

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Speaker 2: the NBA as a three for most of the stats.

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Speaker 2: But when you look at him, he doesn't strike you

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Speaker 2: as the traditional point guard, which is kind of on

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Speaker 2: its way out in the league. And like KCP would

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Speaker 2: bring the ball up, Jokic initiates offense. I wonder do

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Speaker 2: you think teams consider that strategy about, Hey, we don't

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Speaker 2: need an Isaiah Thomas or a Chris Paul. We want

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Speaker 2: to have guys who can all bring the ball up,

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Speaker 2: initiate offense, handles, shoot, and that's kind of a modern NBA.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, you know, I think that the league's definitely

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Speaker 1: going that way where that we've got more of just

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Speaker 1: guards rather than your traditional you know, floor general distributor,

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Speaker 1: you know. And I mean I think with Denver situation,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's only one Nicole Yoka try. I mean

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Speaker 1: you can't you can't replicate that. And so I mean

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Speaker 1: their their offense, their team is unique from that sense.

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Speaker 1: You know, the offense runs through him. I mean he's

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Speaker 1: the op it's avenge and you know that the lead

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Speaker 1: playmaker which allows them, you know. I mean, because I

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Speaker 1: agree with you, Jamal Murray is a is a scoring guard.

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Speaker 1: I mean he's good, good on the ball, but I

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Speaker 1: mean he's he's a bucket getter, and you know, to me,

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Speaker 1: it seems like a perfect fit with with with Joker.

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Speaker 2: And it is interesting because Murray, I think, had four

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Speaker 2: straight double DIGITUSS games in the finals and people don't

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Speaker 2: think of him as that kind of guy. He's a scorer.

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Speaker 2: And I mean in a perfect world, yeah, LaMelo ball

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Speaker 2: can work with Scoot, But I don't know. I actually

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Speaker 2: I think Scoot. I think up with you, I think

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Speaker 2: Scoot has more upside and we've seen LaMelo now and

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Speaker 2: that's kind of the tough part. It's like, Okay, everybody

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Speaker 2: loves LaMelo, but now he's seen three years and we

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Speaker 2: kind of know what he is, and like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: is he ever gonna be the best player on the

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Speaker 2: championship team. Probably not. It could be your second best,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean Jamal Murray is now the

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Speaker 2: second best player on the title team.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I mean, I like, I love LaMelo's talent.

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Speaker 1: I mean this really is not intended to be a

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Speaker 1: knock on him at all.

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Speaker 2: No, no, not at all.

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Speaker 1: And it's just I mean, you know, going back to

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Speaker 1: what I said about, you know, comparing Brandon Miller and

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Speaker 1: Scoot you know, I think it's debatable as far as

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Speaker 1: their skill sets and their talent, it's that mindset and approach,

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Speaker 1: and I mean, if you're a rebuilding team, I'm just

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Speaker 1: not passing on a guy like that because I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's that's the type of player that can help set

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Speaker 1: like a you know, the culture. You know, we really

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Speaker 1: kind of created a winning, winning culture in your building.

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Speaker 2: Brandon Miller at three Portland's tough to peg. I mean,

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Speaker 2: who knows they could They could make a trade in

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Speaker 2: the next twenty four hours with the Dame Love situation.

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Speaker 2: I don't see that happening. Brandon Miller's comp I've seen

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Speaker 2: a lot of it. Is like he's he looks like

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Speaker 2: Paul George almost too cool for school, very like almost

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Speaker 2: not slow motion. But he's got a great handle of

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Speaker 2: the ball to go between his legs, he's long, get

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Speaker 2: to the rim, shoot threes like I like him a lot.

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Speaker 2: I don't know though. You know, Matt, why would you

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Speaker 2: take a smaller guard like scoot over a prototypical wing

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Speaker 2: Paul George, Jalen Brown, whatever you want to call him,

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Speaker 2: like Brandon Miller.

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Speaker 1: You know. I mean it's being a little repetitive here,

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Speaker 1: but just the mindset, the approach. I mean, he's got

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Speaker 1: the killer instinct that I think he's just he's the

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Speaker 1: guy that I trust is going to maximize his potential.

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Speaker 1: But you know, again, I really like Brandon Miller too,

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Speaker 1: And you're right, he's six eight sixty nine, do it

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Speaker 1: all kind of guy, and I think he's got a

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Speaker 1: lot of room for growth as well, which is exciting.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he needs to get stronger, which I when

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Speaker 1: he does, I think will really help him finish at

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Speaker 1: the rim. I mean, it's been a blow average finisher.

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Speaker 1: So this guy, you know, was a you know, big

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Speaker 1: time score as a true freshman, you know, a competitive

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Speaker 1: conference on a good team and you know, in its

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Speaker 1: games predicated mostly off outside shooting, which you know it

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Speaker 1: is is the you know, the most valuable attribute for

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Speaker 1: players coming into the league right now. But yeah, so

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Speaker 1: two good players, you know, good problems for these teams

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Speaker 1: to have, you know, thinking two to three, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think both guys have All

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Speaker 1: Star potential. Obviously, whether they get there or not and

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Speaker 1: the time will tell, but both of them are big

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Speaker 1: time prospects.

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Speaker 2: I think the guy that I've seen as the highest

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Speaker 2: riser here in the last you know, forty eight seventy

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Speaker 2: two hours is the kid Buffkin out of Michigan. Now,

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Speaker 2: we had a guy on the pod talk about Michigan

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Speaker 2: and Jet Howard, but it seems like Buffkin is the

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Speaker 2: guy who is on the rise big time. Now again,

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Speaker 2: if you watch college basketball this year, Michigan they were

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Speaker 2: a disappointment. Didn't he make the tournament overall? Like they

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Speaker 2: were hitt and miss. Do you want Howard started ending

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Speaker 2: the season here like is this guy job on the line?

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Speaker 2: And Buffkin didn't pop but he seems to fall into

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Speaker 2: that category of measurements check. And he's only nineteen, which

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Speaker 2: is younger than a lot of the guys in this draft.

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Speaker 2: What other reasons do people really like Buffkin? Did you

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Speaker 2: see him cracking the lottery? And can he go top ten?

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Speaker 1: You know it seemly he's just kind of gradually is

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Speaker 1: kept moving up. I mean even throughout the season. You know,

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Speaker 1: initially he was not a guy that I expected to

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Speaker 1: be in this year's draft, and you know, I was

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Speaker 1: at the Big Ten tournament. You got to watch him

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Speaker 1: closely there and just really kind of ship away at everybody.

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Speaker 1: And like you mentioned, he's kind of checks a lot

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Speaker 1: of boxes. I don't think he does one thing that

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Speaker 1: that necessarily blows you away. But he doesn't really have weaknesses.

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Speaker 1: I mean, as a as a guy that could play

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Speaker 1: the two in the one kind of does everything pretty well,

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Speaker 1: you know, and he approaches the game the our way.

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Speaker 1: He plays hard, you know, makes makes good decisions, and

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Speaker 1: so I think people are trusting him that that he's

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Speaker 1: going to be at least a solid player, you know,

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Speaker 1: and can you add to what he already has in place?

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Speaker 1: And you know, I you know, there's rumors that he

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Speaker 1: could go as high as eight. That's a little that's

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Speaker 1: a little high for me with Buffkin. But you know,

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Speaker 1: if they're they're comfortable with them. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think I think a lot of times we get

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Speaker 1: too caught up in you know, where are you taking

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Speaker 1: players at what number? But if he fits what you're

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Speaker 1: trying to do, I made a roll with it, and

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Speaker 1: you know I respect it. If teams are are pegging

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Speaker 1: him as a lottery pick, uh so.

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Speaker 2: In your travels uh as a scout and and doing

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Speaker 2: draft an analysis, it feels like the days of them,

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Speaker 2: We're going to bring in these guys for a workout

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Speaker 2: and a little one on one play. The most famous

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Speaker 2: that I've ever heard was the Steph Curry Tyreek Evans

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Speaker 2: workout where they made them play one on one and

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Speaker 2: Evans just destroyed Curry one on one and Kings were

377
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Speaker 2: like or Grizzlies whoever drafted sold well, he's ours, you know,

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Speaker 2: and they take Tyreek Evans and you know, rookie the

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Speaker 2: year twenty points a game, but obviously Steph Curry much

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Speaker 2: better player. Are teams doing this where they bring in

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Speaker 2: multiple players anymore or just agents like no way that

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Speaker 2: can only hurt us. We're not doing that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're still doing it, and I think you know,

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Speaker 1: this isn't anything new, but it's become more common that

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Speaker 1: agents are holding their players back. I mean we saw

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Speaker 1: at the Combine, We've been seen every year of you know,

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Speaker 1: more and more players are sitting up the live play.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've got guys that are gonna be drafting the

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Speaker 1: second round. I think they should be lottery picks that

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Speaker 1: didn't didn't play right, and so it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: frustrating part of the pre draft process in my opinion.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, they're still still doing it. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot late first round picks, second round

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Speaker 1: picks are coming in and they're competing, you know, in

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Speaker 1: front of these staffs. But you know a lot of

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Speaker 1: a lot of guys that are having their agents are

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Speaker 1: these agents that have been advising them to do one workout.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times the agents will even bail on

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Speaker 1: teams and trying try and promote them they're bigger and

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Speaker 1: better than that pig. So a lot of games going on.

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Speaker 2: This time here and that's kind of the you know NFL.

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Speaker 2: If you said well to an agent, well, look at

403
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Speaker 2: the NFL. You don't see wide receivers going in against cornerbacks.

404
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,199
Speaker 2: You know, they're not working out against each other. And

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Speaker 2: I guess from that point of view it matters. But

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Listen, I know everybody likes Buffkin a lot.

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Speaker 2: I would love to see Buffkins Buffkin in a workout

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Speaker 2: with Jordan Hawkins from yukatt Now, I'm way higher on

409
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Speaker 2: Jordan Hawkins in the market. Where are you on Hawkins?

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Speaker 2: I had him top ten. I think he's the best

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Speaker 2: shooting card in the draft. And again, I know some

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Speaker 2: people say, oh, age and look at this the measurements,

413
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Speaker 2: But like, I don't know, would we see a Hawkins

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Speaker 2: Buffkin matchup in a workout? Like? Does that even matter

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three?

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Speaker 1: You know, I think depending on who you ask, you

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Speaker 1: might get different answers. My approach with this is, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time with Guy waying these players.

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Speaker 1: I start watching them when they're in high school. If

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Speaker 1: I need to watch them in an individual workout or

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Speaker 1: you know, two on two in you know May or

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Speaker 1: June lead up to the draft, I feel like I

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Speaker 1: haven't haven't done my job right, you know, to me,

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Speaker 1: what's more important in the pre draft process is getting

425
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Speaker 1: to know the players personally, you know, really kind of

426
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,240
Speaker 1: pumping up the intel gathering of getting getting to know

427
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Speaker 1: their personality and their habits on off the courts, you know,

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Speaker 1: their their support system, things like that. And then obviously

429
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,719
Speaker 1: the medical testing is huge. I mean there's you know,

430
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,080
Speaker 1: every year we have it where guys slip and in

431
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:21,879
Speaker 1: the media and the fans are all, hey, what happened?

432
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,880
Speaker 1: Why is this guy slipping? And it's because he got

433
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,760
Speaker 1: red flag? But just it never becomes public, and there's

434
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 1: been some whispers of some guys that are being read

435
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,919
Speaker 1: like now, and I don't want to share that, you know,

436
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 1: I don't know how Mike, but you know, that's the

437
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 1: kind of stuff to me that really matters the most

438
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,239
Speaker 1: in the pre draft and an individual workout me it's

439
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,440
Speaker 1: great see how competitive guys are and you know, mental

440
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,880
Speaker 1: toughness because those workouts are like a battle. But it's

441
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 1: just a it's a small variable in the equation in

442
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 1: my book, Have you heard.

443
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,280
Speaker 2: Anything about why Hawkins isn't?

444
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:50,919
Speaker 1: You know?

445
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,120
Speaker 2: Do you have a lot of ear?

446
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 1: You know, our latest one we had him slipping the

447
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 1: seventeen it was more of a pick by pick is

448
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,159
Speaker 1: kind of how it fell. I mean, I you know,

449
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 1: before I did the mock draft, I would have told

450
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,480
Speaker 1: you I've seen probably as like a you know, late

451
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 1: lottery type of players just kind of unfolded this one.

452
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 1: But there's not like once we begin to the late lottery,

453
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,160
Speaker 1: I'm I don't have a ton of intel that's that's

454
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 1: really indicating exactly where everybody's going. It's more of doing

455
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 1: doing my best guests at this point. But uh, you know,

456
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 1: it's funny, every every day I could probably I could

457
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,680
Speaker 1: probably update my mock draft every day that the last

458
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 1: ten days lead up to the draft because there is

459
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 1: so much intel and information kind of being exchange among

460
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 1: teams and and media members and whatnot. And you know,

461
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,160
Speaker 1: as far as my evaluation of Hawkins, I'm a big fan,

462
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 1: and you know, if I had to pick more than two,

463
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 1: I would take Hawkins over Buffkin. I just I really like,

464
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,639
Speaker 1: I really like his upside as a as a movement shooter.

465
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 1: I think it's a very valuable skill. I think you

466
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 1: could plug him into just about any roster because it's

467
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 1: just you know, it shakes up the defense and it's

468
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,160
Speaker 1: uh it's a very much uh a translatable skill with

469
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 1: with the NBA is so spread out, and think with

470
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 1: with Hawkins, I think he's got a lot of upside.

471
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 1: He needs to get a lot stronger, and I do

472
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 1: think he could add a little bit more to his game.

473
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,199
Speaker 1: I'm not sure he's going to do much on ball creation,

474
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 1: but I do think he could you add a little

475
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,480
Speaker 1: bit of a you know, you know, at three levels

476
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 1: score into his game. I mean, he's an explosive guy,

477
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 1: and I think with strength can absorb contact a little

478
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,880
Speaker 1: bit better. And then he's got he's got the great

479
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 1: natural shooting sich. So there's no reason I don't think

480
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 1: he could be a little bit more of a versatile shooter,

481
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,120
Speaker 1: you know, put in the ball belor a little bit

482
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:23,959
Speaker 1: and mid mid range type stuff.

483
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 2: So it looks like one of the big differences between

484
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 2: Buffkin and Hawkins is Hawkins is about two years older.

485
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,199
Speaker 2: He's already twenty one. And I again, you're deep in

486
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 2: the community, you probably know if someone sees a prospect

487
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,120
Speaker 2: like Hawkins who you like, well, Jay, he is two

488
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: years older. Can you imagine what Buffkin's going to be

489
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 2: in two years? And that's a decent argument, but a

490
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 2: lot of it is, well, wait a second, Hawkins had

491
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 2: to grind way harder because he didn't come in I

492
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:56,159
Speaker 2: don't think with the hype that Buffkin did. Buffkin, I

493
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 2: don't think he started as a freshman, but last year

494
00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 2: started all the game and Hawkins was kind of a

495
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 2: slow build. And now here we are going to the NBA.

496
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 2: Ken Buffkin get a lot better in the league as

497
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 2: a nineteen year old rookie, whereas Hawkins is probably more

498
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 2: ready to play. Like, for instance, a Christian Brown goes

499
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 2: to Denver. I think he was twenty one when he

500
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 2: was drafted three years I think at Kansas and it

501
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 2: was like, well, can he get any better? Well, we

502
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 2: don't need him much better. He's really good now. He

503
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,160
Speaker 2: can help us now, as opposed to do guys get

504
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 2: better in the NBA if they go in at nineteen

505
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 2: and they're like not a superstar prospect?

506
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: Oh, I think so. I mean, I've got a lot,

507
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: you know, I come from a you know, basketball background

508
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 1: where my dad was a college coach, and I'm a

509
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: big believer in coaching and development, and I mean, so

510
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: I do believe in the concept of Okay, naturally, if

511
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: a guy is younger, He's got more room for growth physically,

512
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: you know, from a mental capacity with maturity wise, but

513
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I really look at each evaluation

514
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: in a very compartmentalized fashion, and so with Jordan Hawkins,

515
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: even though he's a little bit older, I still see

516
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: a lot of areas that he can he can grow

517
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,479
Speaker 1: and develop. And I mean just the one simple thing

518
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,360
Speaker 1: is getting him into an NBA weight program. They adding

519
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 1: ten ten pounds of muscle. I mean, like that, by itself,

520
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 1: it's going to make him an extremely better player. And

521
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 1: so you know, sort of sort of mixed mixed thoughts

522
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: on that, But yeah, I do I do like George

523
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: Hawkins upside more than Buffkin. I think Buffkins is probably safe,

524
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: a safer pick, different type of players, even though they're

525
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 1: both kind of pencil in those two guards. Buffkins got

526
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 1: a little bit more of like a convo guard, sort

527
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: of multipurpose, you know, jack of ball trades guard, whereas

528
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: Hawkins is I don't think he's necessarily one dimensional, but

529
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: he's closer to being one dimensional. Is a shooter and

530
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 1: a movement shooter.

531
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 2: We're already on the kid from Kansas, Grady Dick only nineteen,

532
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,199
Speaker 2: arguably the best shooter in the draft. Kind of a

533
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 2: smooth player. But I don't know what are the what's

534
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 2: the analysis on him in your looking into Grady Dick.

535
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like Grady Dick a lot, and I think

536
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: he and Jordan Hawkins are the two best shooters in

537
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: the draft. You know, a little bit different players. You know,

538
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 1: Grady's bigger. He's a six seven six ' eight, more

539
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 1: of like a three big wing shooter. But he's not

540
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: He's not limited just shooting. He's a pretty tough kid,

541
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: and you know, a good explosive athletes, is a good

542
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: straight line finisher. And I really like his confidence and swagger.

543
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: I mean, he's one of these guys, don't I don't

544
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: think the noise gets to him and it gives me,

545
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: gives me hope that he could kind of overcome some

546
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: of the early struggles that rookies face and young guy's

547
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: face in the league and get over the hump. I mean,

548
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: especially as a shooter. You know a lot of these guys,

549
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 1: you know, come in and you know, play a very

550
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 1: limited role. It's hard to hit shots. But if you

551
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: don't have confidence and you don't have your flow, I mean,

552
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: I think. You know, Cory Kisperg was a good example

553
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: of that. His rookie year really kind of stroll to

554
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: get going. You had a better year this year with

555
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 1: the Wizards. But I think Dick is got He's got

556
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: this confidence to him that you know, he kind of

557
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: step in, you count on him hit shots.

558
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: Derek Lively, the center out of Duke, started to like

559
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: him more like what I saw during the season, but

560
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 2: in the Shire system. I mean, he's very basically a

561
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 2: rim runner, room protector, dunk everything. And now you go

562
00:24:58,560 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 2: to see some of these workouts that make it a

563
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: online and it's like he's splashing thirteen threes in a row,

564
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 2: and it's like, wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait minute,

565
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: this kid could shoot too. Marie on Derek Lively and

566
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 2: it's his stock, you know, potentially top ten. I thought

567
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,719
Speaker 2: the Lakers could grab him at seventeen, but I got

568
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 2: people texting me, no shot.

569
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: Yeah no. It's been an interesting sort of progression evaluating

570
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: Lively since he was in high school. He's one of

571
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: the top rated guys come out of his class. And

572
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, it was interesting. I was in Portland the

573
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: phill Nite Invitational and over Thanksgiving so I spent you know,

574
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 1: three days watching him and the Duke team closely, and

575
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: he was like a deer in headlights. His confidence what

576
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: wasn't there and really just looked like a shell of

577
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 1: himself of what I saw in high school. And you

578
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: finish the yar strong. I mean he's huge, you know,

579
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: seven foot plus, it really moves well, you're at the

580
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: bare minimum and get you know, terrific rimt protection covers

581
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,919
Speaker 1: a lot of space, you know, rim runner type. But

582
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: then you know, as you mentioned in that pro day,

583
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: you shot the lights out and you know, one thing,

584
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: and I'd love to say this on the record, I

585
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: can't stand pro days. I think it's yeah, you know,

586
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: I think they could be really misleading. But the one

587
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: thing in Lively's case is, you know, I did see

588
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: flashes of the shooting when he was in high school,

589
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: and so I'm buying I'm buying it a little bit more.

590
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: And so, uh, is he ever going to be this

591
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: guy that's you know, Karl Anthony Towns or Jerk Davitsky.

592
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: Now I don't necessarily see that. So that's where I

593
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: think the pro day is possibly a little bit misleading.

594
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: But you know, the way the NBA games played the

595
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: things that he does well. If he could just you know,

596
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 1: hit an open shot at a decent rate just where

597
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: the defense has the has to defend him, that gives

598
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:27,959
Speaker 1: floor spacing. So now all of a sudden, you got

599
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: a seven footer, let's given rim protection. Uh, that's you know,

600
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: a good chance of being a high level defender that

601
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: also stretches the floor and can finish, you know, at

602
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: a high rate. That's very valuable. And so he's definitely

603
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 1: moved up, not just in my book, I think across

604
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: the board, and it's looking like there's a good chance

605
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: he could go into lottery.

606
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: Week of the draft. I'm sure you got a lot

607
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 2: going on. Where will you be this week?

608
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it work in the draft remotely this year from home,

609
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: but it'll be you know, putting out a bunch of

610
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: content on Draft Digest. I'll probably be updating our mocks

611
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: draft at least once or twice more. A lot of intel,

612
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: a lot of information go going around right now. And

613
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: then check out my podcast, The Matt Babcock Show. I

614
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: can find that on whatever platform you get your podcasts.

615
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: But that's it. Yeah, I'm excited. We've got a Thursday.

616
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: But You've been working all year for the big night,

617
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: and since it's finally here, then.

618
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 2: You got to turn out the twenty twenty four mock

619
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: draft in about eight days anyway, right, all right, Matt,

620
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 2: thanks a lot man, good luck, enjoy the draft, buddy.

621
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: Thanks Jason, take care,