1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. But I'm Josh 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and Jerry, so you're sitting and forget 3 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: for Dave. This is short stuff, which is off to 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: a bad start already. 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 2: That's right. And this is the story of the Saddest Skeleton. 6 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: It is really sad. There's like five different reasons it's sad. 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: But you can kind of understand a little bit why 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: the skeleton would get so much attention. As known as 9 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: the Atakama skeleton, and it was found in the desert 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: of northern Chile, Atacama Desert, in an abandoned town called 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: Ladnoria back in two thousand and three. 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 3: That's right. 13 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: It's little, very small, about six inches in length or 14 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 2: fifteen centimeters, and it has a very interesting shape to 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 2: the skull, very conically shaped, and also has only ten 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: pairs of ribs where we usually have twelve pairs. And 17 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: so of course right away there were uf people saying 18 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 2: it's an alien. It's got to be a tiny, little alien. 19 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: There's no other explanation. 20 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, look at that thing. Other people said, hey, not 21 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: so fast. It looks more like a non human primate, 22 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 2: maybe a shape shifter. 23 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 3: We don't know. 24 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 2: From what weird place this thing came from. But that's 25 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: just the beginning of the story, that's all. I don't 26 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: want to ruin anything just yet. 27 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. The skeleton also is not fully skeletonized, like there's 28 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: desiccated flesh attached to tissue attached to it in some 29 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: places too, including the face. And the reason why is because, 30 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: like I said, it came from the Atacama Desert in 31 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: northern Chile. That's one of the driest non polar places 32 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: on Earth, and it can mummify human remains pretty easily. 33 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: It's between the Chilean coastal mountain range and the Andes 34 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: and the town of Lenora, which is situated in the desert, 35 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: was once a mining town, a nitrate mining town. I 36 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: think Saltpeter. 37 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, that's right. You love saying Saltpeter. 38 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. Why are you gonna say anything else when you 39 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: can say Saltpeter? 40 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: Agreed, It's used as a fertilizer a lot. So they 41 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 2: abandoned the town in nineteen thirties, I guess, after they 42 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: had mined up all that stuff. So it's, you know, 43 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 2: long way of saying, it's a very good place to 44 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 2: preserve skeletons there and just naturally. But not only that, 45 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 2: but the ancient Centori culture there had a tradition of 46 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 2: mummifying bodies on purpose through their embalming process. So an 47 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 2: even longer way of saying that finding something out there, 48 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,399 Speaker 2: it is not unlikely that it would be pretty well preserved. 49 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and not the least of which because of the 50 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: solar radiation there. Apparently it's higher than anywhere on Earth, 51 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 1: not a lot of water, it's very hot in the day, 52 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,839 Speaker 1: very cold at night. It's like just a perfect place 53 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: to make a mummy. And so in two thousand and 54 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: three the world first heard of the Atikamma skeleton thanks 55 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: to a guy named Oscar Munos who's a treasure hunter, 56 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: who said that he went to Lenoria and found just 57 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: sitting on a shelf in one of the buildings the 58 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: ati Kama skeleton. And most other people say, oh, we 59 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: don't think that you just found this thing on a shelf. 60 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 61 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: Most other people say, he really dug this thing up 62 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: from a burial site. So that's sad thing number one, 63 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: and no, no number one, as you're not just supposed 64 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: to do that as a treasure hunter. That's not a treasure. 65 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: Sure later on that skeleton was sold to a guy 66 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: named Ramon navia Asorio. He was a Spanish business owner 67 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: and a just collector of oddities. And also, it just 68 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: so happens a president of the Institute for Research and 69 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 2: Exo Biological Studies, which is a UFO enthusiast organization. 70 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: Right, And so you fologists have like a fairly smallish 71 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: community of people who will actually travel to conferences. So 72 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: it's not a big surprise that navia Osorio met up 73 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: with a guy named Stephen M. Greer, who is a 74 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: very prominent ufologist. I think he must have come up 75 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: in our area fifty one episode because I recognize his name. 76 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: But he is very outspoken about trying to get the 77 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: US government to disclose all of the information they surely 78 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: have on aliens, their awareness of aliens, what really crashed 79 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,119 Speaker 1: and roswell, all of that stuff. And when Greer found 80 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: out that navia Osorio had the Ada Kama skeleton, he 81 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: was like, we have to figure out what this thing is. 82 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: Can I take a tissue sample? 83 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 2: That's right, and that feels like a great place for 84 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: a break. 85 00:04:49,920 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 3: What a cliffhanger? Yeah, we'll be right back, all right. 86 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 2: So Stephen Greer has gotten in touch with Navaria Assorio 87 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 2: and said, hey, I got a plan here. Let's get 88 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: this Let's extract some DNA, have it examined for this 89 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: documentary called Sirius S I R I U S. It's 90 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 2: inspired out of one of my books. We can figure 91 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: out what this thing is like, you know, hopefully full 92 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: bore and we can know for sure. 93 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I guess the Serious got publicized enough that 94 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: a guy named Gary Nolan, who's a microbiologist. He reached 95 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: out to Stephen Greer and said, hey, I can help 96 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: you run a genomic test on this thing for your 97 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: movie Serious. Let's do this, And Stephen Greer said great, 98 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: let's I'm sure that was quite unexpected. 99 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, And another thing that was unexpected was they found 100 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: that the DNA was quote modern, abundant and high quality 101 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 2: and is human. There's no doubt about it. So obviously 102 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 2: this was not an alien being. They published this research 103 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 2: in March of twenty eighteen in the journal Genome Research. 104 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 2: And what they found is, you know, the second and 105 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: probably most sad thing is that it was probably a 106 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 2: little baby girl who died in the womb. 107 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, she was almost certainly still born. If she was 108 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,239 Speaker 1: alive when she was born, she would not have lived 109 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: very long. And they like, if you haven't seen the 110 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: autocommon skeleton, that's probably a good time to go look 111 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: up a picture of her. But the reason she has 112 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: such an unusual appearance is because they attribute it to 113 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: the really like disproportionate number of genetic mutation she has. 114 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: You know, just one single genetic mutation can very easily 115 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: alter a person's appearance. She had multiple genetic mutations, and 116 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: they have no idea why, but they're like, well, this 117 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: explains basically everything. 118 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and also it seemed like it was you know, 119 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that it's a preterm birth. She's very 120 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: well preserved, so they're pretty sure that she's under five 121 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 2: hundred years old, and that's what I meant by fairly recent. 122 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: But they said they don't know, like she could have 123 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 2: died in the past, like thirty or forty years And 124 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: if that's true, then her parents might potentially still be around. 125 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: And we have this situation where there could be parents, 126 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: an even if there aren't, we have snatched this skeleton 127 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 2: from a tomb of this little girl who died prematurely 128 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 2: because of you know, issues like birth issues, and it's 129 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: like the saddest thing in the world. 130 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: And not only that, people around the world are saying, 131 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: like alien, look at this, obviously an alien. Yeah, it's like, no, 132 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: these are actually congenital genetic issues, not alien. So yeah, 133 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: you put all this stuff together. You just hope that 134 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: the family is not aware of this. The thing that 135 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: stood out to me though, Chuck, is she died within 136 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: say forty years. That would put her in the eighties 137 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: the seventies, and the town where she was found, allegedly Lenoria, 138 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: was abandoned in the thirties, so I'm not sure what 139 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: she would be doing there, but I did see in 140 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: a lot of different places they're like, she could have 141 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,719 Speaker 1: died quite recently. 142 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah. Well, it was such a sort of outrage 143 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: after they found this out when that paper was published 144 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen that Chilean Society of Biological Anthropology and 145 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: the Chilean Association of Archaeologists both came out and were like, 146 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 2: this was a really unethical study. Shouldn't have done it. 147 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 2: It's against the law. 148 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 3: First of all. 149 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 2: Under the Chilean law, it's illegal to carry out archaeological, 150 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 2: anthropological or paleen to logical excavations without getting authorization from 151 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: the Council of National Monuments, which wasn't done. 152 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: That's a big one. They're also like, by the way, 153 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: give us our remains back, let's repatriator. And then a 154 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: lot of focus came on to Gary Nolan and his 155 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: group for even running this test in the first place, 156 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: and they they essentially understood. They're like, you know, you're right, this, this, 157 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: this whole jam is quite unethical. At least in our defense, 158 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: we did not handle the body. We've never seen the 159 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: body in person. We got a one millimeter a cubic 160 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: millimeter piece of bone to use as the sample, so 161 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: at least there's that. And yes, we believe that that 162 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: this baby's remain should be repatriated back to Chile. So 163 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I don't know if they got 164 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: all the heat off of them, but at the very 165 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: least they were willing to acknowledge the ethical lapse on 166 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: their part for sure. 167 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that was a fairly stand up th 168 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 2: to do. 169 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: But the body is not back in Chile. It's still 170 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: in the possession of Ramon Navia Osorio in Spain. Yeah, 171 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: he's got it still. I don't know that he's making 172 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: any moves to give it back. And also I saw 173 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: Stephen Greer disputes the findings that it was human anything else, 174 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: just a that was a scoff if I've ever heard one. Yeah, 175 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: all right, love you. Chuck Short stuffs out. 176 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 3: Stuff you should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 177 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple 178 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 3: Podcasts 179 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.