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Speaker 1: Hey, there are folks. It is Wednesday, January fourteenth, and

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Speaker 1: on day one of testimony in the so called O

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Speaker 1: Pair affair murder trial. The O Pair is on the

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Speaker 1: stand and with that, welcome to this episode of Amy

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Speaker 1: and TJ.

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Speaker 2: Roabe.

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Speaker 1: No doubt, this has to be the most important witness

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Speaker 1: of this trial. I supposed to go maybe two months.

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Speaker 1: This is the witnesses. Yes.

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Speaker 3: Day one, we already saw the old pair take the stand,

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Speaker 3: and everyone was waiting to see. After a series of

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Speaker 3: detectives and emergency workers took the stand, We're like, when.

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Speaker 2: Is she coming? When is she coming in?

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Speaker 3: It was after lunch that we finally saw the old

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Speaker 3: pair take the stand, and she looked She looked nervous,

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Speaker 3: she looked emotional, she lived tiers of time. Yeah, she

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Speaker 3: looked like she was up there under duress almost.

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Speaker 1: And so the scenario is that this woman twenty five

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Speaker 1: years old is sitting in a room now a mere

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Speaker 1: feet away on the witness stand from the guy that

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Speaker 1: she was involved in an affair with and the guy

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Speaker 1: she is now testifying against as the guy who orchestrated

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Speaker 1: what is a more complicated murder plot than even I

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Speaker 1: realized before this trial started.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she has gotten into all the details about just

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Speaker 3: the evolution of their relationship than an idea that was

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Speaker 3: suggested about getting rid of his wife, the plan that

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Speaker 3: was in place, and then the execution of that plan.

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Speaker 2: It is a lot to unpack.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to get you caught up here and

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Speaker 1: tell you this as this recording here on Wednesday morning,

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Speaker 1: that the old pair and tay your name for me again,

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Speaker 1: Juliana Perezel.

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Speaker 2: She said it so fast. She's Brazilian.

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Speaker 3: I am not great at Portuguese, but it was mahalais

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Speaker 3: something like that.

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Speaker 1: Juliana Perez. Makala is twenty five years old. She's going

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Speaker 1: to be back on the stand and giving testimony today.

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Speaker 1: The prosecution started with direct yesterday, so we haven't even

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Speaker 1: gotten to cross examination. So let's go back to the

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Speaker 1: crime and I gotta kind of tell it step by step.

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Speaker 1: Robes not all the details here, but what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about is Brendan Banfield. It's his name. He is accused

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Speaker 1: in the double murder of his wife, Christine and a

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Speaker 1: stranger by the name of Joseph Ryan. So we go

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Speaker 1: back to February of twenty twenty three, is when this happens.

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Speaker 1: He wants to get rid of his wife, and according

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Speaker 1: to prosecutors, he hatched a plan in which he lured

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Speaker 1: Joseph Ryan, a totally unsuspecting stranger, to the house, thinking

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Speaker 1: Joseph Ryan think he was answering an ad and coming

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Speaker 1: to play out a sexual fantasy with this woman. Brendan

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Speaker 1: Banfield's plan was to come in, catch this going on,

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Speaker 1: kill the man, and then kill his wife. Then have

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Speaker 1: the man, Joseph Ryan, take the fall for the murder

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Speaker 1: of his wife, and then Brendan Banfield would be the

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Speaker 1: hero for coming in and trying to save his wife.

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Speaker 1: Did I get the story right?

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Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And in the midst of all that, Brendan Banfield had

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Speaker 1: been having an affair with the oh pair in the house,

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Speaker 1: right under the woman's nose, and she was a part

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Speaker 1: of this entire plot, and she is now turned on

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Speaker 1: Brendan Banfield. What did I leave out? I just want

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Speaker 1: to get everybody caught up. Are we good? Oh?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you did a really good job of

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Speaker 3: just getting a detailed summarization of the plan because it

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Speaker 3: is very specific and unusual.

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Speaker 2: Never heard of it before in my life.

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Speaker 1: So it didn't work out, so we start jury selection

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Speaker 1: just took one day on Monday, so trial started yesterday

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Speaker 1: of testimony, Yes, they went through a couple of detective

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Speaker 1: and some of the investigative stuff. But yes, she gets

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Speaker 1: up on the stand and ropes. I guess I don't

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Speaker 1: know what people will first think of. And let's be

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Speaker 1: fair here and be honest. Twenty one year old Brazilian

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Speaker 1: OH pair. What comes to mind? Maybe for some people

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Speaker 1: based on culture, based on movies and things. You see,

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Speaker 1: she looked like what an elementary school teacher had glasses on,

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Speaker 1: long hair and just kind of yeah.

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Speaker 3: There, yeah, yeah, she wasn't some hot sex pot of

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Speaker 3: a O pair coming in with a Brazilian bikini.

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Speaker 2: And no, she was not oozing that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it was more just sweet young girl next door

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Speaker 3: who wants to be a kindergarten teacher. That would be

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Speaker 3: how I would describe her demeanor, her look. So yes,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't when you hear Brazilian O pair. But in

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Speaker 3: an affair, you have an idea of who you think

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Speaker 3: you're looking at, and she does not fit that visual

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Speaker 3: that you might have in your mind.

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Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, just wanted to get clear on I

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Speaker 1: guess kind of setting the scene in the areas today.

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Speaker 1: But yes, she's kind of soft spoken. English clearly not

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Speaker 1: her first language, and she struggled with understanding some of

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Speaker 1: the questions and some words sometimes, and she didn't use

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Speaker 1: a lot of words in some of her descriptions. So

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Speaker 1: I was taken robes when she first started talking about

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Speaker 1: the relationship just how much of one she did not

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Speaker 1: have with him when she first came. She said she

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Speaker 1: barely even spoke to him. It was all with the wife.

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Speaker 3: Yes, she said, her main relationship was with Christine, the wife,

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Speaker 3: and she you know, when we first got into this story,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't clear if the young girl was the daughter

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Speaker 3: of Christine and Brendan, because they kept saying his daughter,

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Speaker 3: but no, they were the parents and that.

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Speaker 2: Young girl was her daughter.

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Speaker 3: And so yeah, she mainly And that's not atypical when

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Speaker 3: you have a nanny or a no pair, Usually they

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Speaker 3: are dealing more with the mom and the daughter and

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Speaker 3: the dad might just you know, be there in a

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Speaker 3: outward role.

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Speaker 2: And that's how she described it.

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Speaker 1: And they didn't get into it. I didn't hear we

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Speaker 1: were watching this together. So maybe this is by design

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Speaker 1: by the prosecution when they say the relationship changed. She

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Speaker 1: said something about the relationship between her and Brendan Banfield

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Speaker 1: changed in August of twenty twenty two. It became a

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Speaker 1: sexual relationship. They didn't really get into like what happened, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how it happened. Yeah, they didn't at all. I would

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Speaker 1: have been interested. It just was that she said it

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Speaker 1: became sexual. It became a physical relationship ten months after

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Speaker 1: she began working for the family.

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Speaker 2: But I would have liked to have known how that evolved.

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Speaker 1: Long it took Right, isn't the defense going to take

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Speaker 1: that up? I would think, But you can't go from

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Speaker 1: wasn't talking to him at all? Sexual relationship? So what

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Speaker 1: happened in the middle, something happened.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we would hope that the defense would fill in

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Speaker 3: those blanks, because that was a huge blank that we

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Speaker 3: did not get. And yes, she did say that once

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Speaker 3: it became sexual, that was in August, by October, she said.

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Speaker 3: In those months, and that's just a couple of months,

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Speaker 3: he's talking about marrying her, he's talking about having kids

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Speaker 3: with her, he's talking about having a future with her.

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Speaker 2: In just a matter of months.

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Speaker 1: What happened. Yeah, the defense has to get into this

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Speaker 1: because right now as a durer, we always put ourselves

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Speaker 1: in that position. I'm sitting here like wait, what, yes,

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Speaker 1: what happened? What is going on in the house. And

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Speaker 1: she was incredibly complimentary about Christine. Yes, she had very

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Speaker 1: high glowing things.

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Speaker 2: She was a little bizarre.

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Speaker 3: She did say then that Brendan would complain about Christine,

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Speaker 3: saying that she was a terrible mother and he just

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Speaker 3: didn't respect her at all. She was an icy you nurse,

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Speaker 3: by the way, just one of the most amazing professions

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Speaker 3: out there. So a neonatal icy you nurse. I mean,

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Speaker 3: everyone can draw their own conclusions. Brendan had his. And

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Speaker 3: then you heard from the A pair, which was very

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Speaker 3: interesting to hear her be so complimentary of the wife.

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Speaker 3: But yes, she said by October, so that's what two

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Speaker 3: months he talks about wanting to get rid of his wife.

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Speaker 1: Marriage, or at least that she recalled. He kept saying

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Speaker 1: marriage is not an option, and divorce was excuse.

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Speaker 2: Me, what I say, marriage is not an option? Maybe

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Speaker 2: that was a Freudian slip twice.

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Speaker 1: Divorce guy talking here, y'all forgive me that divorce was

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Speaker 1: not an option. But she specifically said money was a

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Speaker 1: factor and the kid was a factor.

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Speaker 2: Yes, she said that he did.

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Speaker 3: Divorce was not an option because she Christine, his wife

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Speaker 3: would end up with more money than him, and that

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Speaker 3: was not okay by him, and he did not want

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Speaker 3: his daughter being influenced by her. He said she was

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Speaker 3: a terrible mom. He wanted full custody, so he said

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Speaker 3: he knew he wouldn't be able to get that through divorce,

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Speaker 3: so divorce was not an option.

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Speaker 2: He needed to get rid of her.

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Speaker 1: So he starts talking about a potential plan and look,

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Speaker 1: some of the details she starts to give robes are

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Speaker 1: I mean, they are pretty detailed, talking specifically about Yes,

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Speaker 1: he considered a hit man, but then thought that wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be a good idea because it could trace back to me.

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Speaker 1: And like the options they started going through, it is

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Speaker 1: really chilling and somebody's going to have to fill in

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Speaker 1: some blanks. Rolls. How do you go from a woman

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Speaker 1: you don't even speak to in the house to having

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Speaker 1: a sexual relationship to wanting to marry and have kids

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Speaker 1: with her and get rid of your wife? This was you?

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Speaker 1: You counted it up in the first ten months. Yes,

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Speaker 1: of her being an alpair there, Yes, what happened?

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Speaker 3: We need to know, because that is an accelerated timeline,

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Speaker 3: and to then immediately trust this woman, by the way,

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Speaker 3: and tell her you're going to murder your wife before

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Speaker 3: you even do it.

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Speaker 2: October, November, December, January.

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Speaker 3: So she said, for three months, he's talking about his plans,

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Speaker 3: he's going over what he could do, what he might do.

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Speaker 3: And it was in January that he settled on this

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Speaker 3: fet life account where this is some website where you

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Speaker 3: go to find or complete fetishes you have. And so

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Speaker 3: he was basically interviewing under Christina's name, Christine's name on

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Speaker 3: her computer, using pictures of his wife, trying to find

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Speaker 3: somebody to have a violent sexual fantasy with her so

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Speaker 3: that he could set up this murder plot.

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Speaker 2: And he had.

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Speaker 3: She said that she testified that he turned down several

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Speaker 3: people because rightfully, so they wanted to meet in person

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Speaker 3: first to have you know, a safe experience, say hey,

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Speaker 3: we can trust each other, and then go through with

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Speaker 3: this violent you know, I put that in air quotes

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Speaker 3: sexual fantasy.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was an interesting and important detail, like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a believable thing. Like he was paying that

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Speaker 1: close of attention and that makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so he was like, well, obviously we can't meet

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Speaker 3: in person because Christine would not be meeting them in

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Speaker 3: person because he was setting this all up. So he

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Speaker 3: finally finds Joseph Ryan, who agrees to complete this rape

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Speaker 3: fantasy with a knife without meeting in person first, which

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Speaker 3: is interesting. I mean, that seems so scary. Who I mean,

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Speaker 3: he obviously wasn't thinking about possibly being set up in

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Speaker 3: some sort of situation. But yes, she talked about how

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Speaker 3: Brendan absolutely like went into details about looking at the

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Speaker 3: knife and the chains being used, and no matter how

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Speaker 3: much I screamed, no matter how much I tell you

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Speaker 3: to stop, keep going. I mean, this is some scary stuff.

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Speaker 1: So, as a part of this plan, Brendan Banfield was

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Speaker 1: supposed to be at a certain lay they said McDonald's. He

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Speaker 1: was waiting essentially for a signal from her to come back.

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Speaker 1: I thought, Robes that again, this is the day of

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Speaker 1: the killing. He's waiting on a signal from the old

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Speaker 1: pair that for him to come back, and that Joseph

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Speaker 1: Ryan has come to the house, that the little girl

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Speaker 1: was in the house and they were keeping her occupied

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Speaker 1: in the basement with an iPad. Yeah, like, specifically, a

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Speaker 1: part of the plan was for the little girl to

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Speaker 1: be distracted by watching something on an iPad. Well, a

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Speaker 1: lot of this was going on.

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Speaker 3: This is so bizarre and in terms of the planning,

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Speaker 3: I thought this was fascinating too, because yes, all the

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Speaker 3: details that the nanny was testifying to does make her

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Speaker 3: story seem more believable.

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Speaker 2: But she also testified that she.

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Speaker 3: And Brendan got new phones, new Apple idea accounts, he

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Speaker 3: went through the neighborhood looking for surveillance cameras like those

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Speaker 3: doorbell and ring cameras. They said, yes, he changed his

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Speaker 3: morning routine so it would be believable that he would

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Speaker 3: be at McDonald's on that morning. He sorted leaving earlier

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Speaker 3: to go out for breakfast, like, oh, this is just

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Speaker 3: what I do. And she said that he had soundproof

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Speaker 3: windows installed in the house days before this plan murder.

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Speaker 3: Those are all I mean speaking directly to premeditation. And

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Speaker 3: she gave a very detailed account of that, which was interesting.

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Speaker 1: So she gives the signal again, according to her testimony,

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Speaker 1: gives a signal he comes back to the house, He

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Speaker 1: comes into the house, have this right on the steps

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Speaker 1: hero robes. She says that she and Brendan Banfield go

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Speaker 1: into the bedroom where in the bedroom this man Joseph

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Speaker 1: Ryan is assaulting Christine. She's naked, yes, because he is

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Speaker 1: whatever his mind, he's thinking, this is exactly what this

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Speaker 1: woman wanted.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Brendan told him that she wanted her clothes cut

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Speaker 3: off by the knife first. So there she is naked,

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Speaker 3: and he is like, I hate to say it, but

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Speaker 3: raping her but thinking it was consensual rape.

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Speaker 2: If that makes any sense.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't. But yes, I get what you're saying, but

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Speaker 1: to a lot of folks doesn't make any sense. So

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Speaker 1: this is playing out in front of them. So now

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Speaker 1: Brendan right shoots kills Joseph Ryan, and this is where

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Speaker 1: it really gets eerie for me. Shoots and kills Joseph Ryan,

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Speaker 1: or he goes dow at least shoots him and he

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Speaker 1: goes down.

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Speaker 2: Because Christine says Brendan he has a knife.

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Speaker 1: He has a knife. So again, according to the scenario

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Speaker 1: for prosecutors, at least ropes the scene we are seeing here,

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Speaker 1: only two people in the room actually know what's going

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Speaker 1: on for real. Christine actually thinks she's being assaulted and

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Speaker 1: raped and attacked. Joseph Ryan thinks he's therefore sexual experience. Ever,

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Speaker 1: they are having that honest experience that they don't realize

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Speaker 1: is completely wrong. So these two walk in. Brendan shoots Joseph.

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Speaker 1: This is what scares me, rogues that Christine right now

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Speaker 1: is alive. Yeah, and she's alive, and.

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Speaker 3: Well, she tells Juliana to call nine one one. She thinks,

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Speaker 3: my husband's just come in, save me, save me, thank God,

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Speaker 3: call nine one one and Juliana, this is so interesting,

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Speaker 3: and the nine one one operators testify this. She does

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Speaker 3: call nine one one when Juliana tells her to just

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Speaker 3: probably is scared and goes for it. And then Brendan

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Speaker 3: looks at her, according to Juliana, and like tells her,

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Speaker 3: are what are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Hang up? So she hangs up the phone.

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Speaker 1: And they actually played that nine to one one hang

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Speaker 1: up in court yesterday as well. So hangs up, and

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Speaker 1: this is where it robes just gets. Christine is alive,

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Speaker 1: thinking she has just survived a near death experience or

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Speaker 1: a sexual assault, and what happens her rescuer kills her.

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Speaker 3: Yes, according to Juliana, she goes to get towels and

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Speaker 3: comes back and it's just she's crouching down and she

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Speaker 3: can barely look, but she sees Brendan stabbing Christine in

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Speaker 3: the neck repeatedly. She said she was covering her ears

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Speaker 3: and covering her eyes as it was happening. That just

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Speaker 3: tells you what that scene was like. But then at

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Speaker 3: some point she admits she then shoots Ryan one more time,

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Speaker 3: Joseph Ryan, one more time with the gun that she

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Speaker 3: says Brendan gave her that they went to gun ranges

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Speaker 3: to practice shooting just in case something went wrong. So

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Speaker 3: she admits to firing again at Joseph Ryan. But to

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Speaker 3: hear her describe what she saw, that was just gutting.

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Speaker 1: And she was on the stand for the last several

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Speaker 1: hours of the day. She's expected to be back on

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Speaker 1: the stand today to continue the direct and then maybe

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Speaker 1: we'll get to cross examination. Will absolutely be keeping an

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Speaker 1: eye on that. But stay here, folks. All she's saying,

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Speaker 1: all these details he's giving us, well, some will tell

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Speaker 1: you there's a very good reason you shouldn't believe a

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Speaker 1: single thing coming out of her mouth. Stay here, all right,

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Speaker 1: We continue here on Amy and TJ with the case

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Speaker 1: of Brendan Banfield, man accused of double murder and the

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Speaker 1: murder of his wife, and an unsuspecting man by the

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Speaker 1: name of Joseph Ryan who was there, who thought he

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Speaker 1: was there for a sexual fetish hook up, but actually

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Speaker 1: he had been lured there by Banfield, according to prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: so that he could kill them both and then frame

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Speaker 1: the man for the murder of his wife. Robes. I

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Speaker 1: don't know as far as they told what four or five, six,

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Speaker 1: seven weeks they're even estimating for this. Did you hear

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Speaker 1: an estimate of how long they think this witness the

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Speaker 1: old pair is going to be on the sand.

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Speaker 2: No, but I can imagine this is going to take

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Speaker 2: some time. Days.

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Speaker 3: I can't imagine they would be done today, just to

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Speaker 3: think what the defense needs to do in cross examination,

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Speaker 3: And they've already given us a.

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Speaker 2: Very specific indication of.

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Speaker 3: What they're going to do and what they're going to

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Speaker 3: say during cross examination, because they need to dismantle her

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Speaker 3: credibility completely, and if they can do that, they have

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Speaker 3: a shot at actually getting a not guilty verdict.

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Speaker 1: And some will say some will tell you they told

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Speaker 1: us in opening statements why you should not believe this woman,

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Speaker 1: and if they deliver at least on some of the

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Speaker 1: things they said in the opening. Then you have to

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Speaker 1: pay attention because this woman again has incentive to make

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Speaker 1: sure she does whatever the prosecutors want her to do.

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Speaker 3: Yes, And by the way, just the timeline of the

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Speaker 3: arrests is fascinating. So this murder takes place in February.

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Speaker 3: She's not arrested until October of that year, so months

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Speaker 3: and months later, and they say she moved in. She

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Speaker 3: was living in that master bedroom and was sleeping in

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Speaker 3: that bed and had a pick sure of her and

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Speaker 3: Brendan on the nightstand. She had her clothes in Christine's

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Speaker 3: former closet. I mean she was taking over basically that

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Speaker 3: life that Christine lived, and for I guess months they

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Speaker 3: claim she was saying and telling Brendan that prosecutors were

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Speaker 3: forcing her or telling her to remember things differently, to

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Speaker 3: say things happened differently.

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Speaker 2: They're making me lie. So if they can bring that.

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Speaker 3: Up and somehow call her out on statements she made

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Speaker 3: to Brendan which are completely different than the statement she's

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Speaker 3: making in court today or yesterday, that will be interesting.

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Speaker 1: How long is that gap February to October? It was?

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Speaker 1: How many months is that as we count them up

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Speaker 1: in six s.

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Speaker 2: It's eight nine months, So eight.

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Speaker 1: Nine months between the killing and her being arrested. And

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Speaker 1: the argument they're making on the defense is that how

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Speaker 1: long it took them to convince her to come up

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Speaker 1: with this story and to go along with it. And

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Speaker 1: now she has a deal. It appears in place. She

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Speaker 1: hasn't been sentenced, right, they're waiting till this is over

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Speaker 1: to sentence her. But it appears she's going to be

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Speaker 1: getting time served and gets to go back home to Brazil.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean to go from having a second murder degree,

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Speaker 3: second degree murder charge that's what she was initially charged with.

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Speaker 3: I mean she admits to firing a shot at Joseph

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Speaker 3: Ryan and looking at you know, decades behind bars potentially

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Speaker 3: to now just getting credit for time served. And after

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Speaker 3: this trial is over, after her testimony is done, she

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Speaker 3: just gets to go back to Brazil free. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's about as good of a sweetheart.

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Speaker 2: Deal as I can imagine. That's a get out of

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Speaker 2: jail free card.

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Speaker 1: And you can, oh, you better believe the defense is

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Speaker 1: going to have to dismantle her on the stand. This

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Speaker 1: is going to be problematic. They are going to change

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Speaker 1: but challenge, but they are arguing absolutely that she is

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Speaker 1: lying and making all this up to save her own button.

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Speaker 2: And she lied.

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Speaker 3: If she she lied at one point, we know that

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Speaker 3: either she lied initially when she told police, what she

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Speaker 3: told police and what she told investigators, or she's lying now.

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Speaker 3: But the point is can you believe? And which version

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Speaker 3: can you believe? Or should you believe? That's some powerful

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Speaker 3: stuff from a defense attorney. So this cross examination is

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Speaker 3: going to be fascinating. Will we get to it today,

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Speaker 3: we don't know, but certainly this is going to be.

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Speaker 3: Probably the most explosive part of this entire trial is

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Speaker 3: when the defense attorneys have their go at her.

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Speaker 1: In Fairfax County. If we didn't say Fairfax County, Virginia. Again,

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Speaker 1: we're recording this early expecting her back on the stand today.

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Speaker 1: It's not they started nine or ten ten am. It's

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Speaker 1: ten am on this one, so ten am Eastern time

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Speaker 1: is when this trial will start again. We will keep

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Speaker 1: a close eye on this one. We will hop back

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Speaker 1: on with any updates as always. Top right corner of

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Speaker 1: your Apple podcast app where you have our show page,

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Speaker 1: little button says follow click that you can make sure

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Speaker 1: all of our updates come right to you. But for

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Speaker 1: now on behalf of my dear robot, I am t J. Holmes.

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Speaker 1: We will talk to you soon, including them on the

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Speaker 1: Morning Run, as you can expect to see in the

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Speaker 1: feed posting here short

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Speaker 2: H