Speaker 1: Have you ever felt depressed about work only to have
Speaker 1: your dad be like, why you're so down? So you
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Speaker 1: then you went to Speaker from my Heart and started
Speaker 1: a podcast and got good at it, then monetized it,
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Speaker 1: for the advice. And he was like, well, that's not
Speaker 1: what I meant, and I don't understand what a podcast is.
Speaker 1: But you seem happy, so that's great, kiddo. Do you
Speaker 1: ever do that? Well, you could at speaker dot com.
Speaker 1: That's spr e A k E. R ask your dad.
Speaker 1: You actually don't. Hi. This is Ali went Worth, host
Speaker 1: of Go Ask Alli. My listeners want more, so we
Speaker 1: are digging in comedian Amy Schumer. As far as cancel
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Speaker 1: to take a look at themselves. I agree with you.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not worried about it because I know
Speaker 1: my intentions and I know that I'm like open to evolving.
Speaker 1: Listen to Go ask Alli every Thursday on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Check out the new podcast I Am Kobe.
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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and wherever you get your podcasts. We can
Speaker 1: say whatever you want. Your name and what you are
Speaker 1: on the Office. My name is Claire Scanlon and I
Speaker 1: was an editor on the Office from season five for
Speaker 1: five years through the finale was so long? Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: My name is Claire Scanlon and I was an editor
Speaker 1: on the Office. Hello everyone, that just made me laugh.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Office deep Dive, where we dive
Speaker 1: deep into the office. As the title indicates, I am
Speaker 1: your host, Brian Baumgartner. Today I have the absolute pleasure
Speaker 1: and privilege of bringing you my conversation with the one
Speaker 1: and only Claire Scanlon. Oh she's just great. Just wait, um.
Speaker 1: Claire was an editor on our show, a great one
Speaker 1: in fact, she won an Emmy for editing the final episode.
Speaker 1: But one thing that was so special about the office
Speaker 1: And I know I've talked about this, but but you
Speaker 1: really you need to understand just how rare it is.
Speaker 1: There was a synergy, a real synergy between all of
Speaker 1: the members of the cast and of the crew. Everyone
Speaker 1: talked to everyone, Everyone had input and value. Everyone could
Speaker 1: try on a new hat if they wanted. Even I
Speaker 1: a lowly actor, I could walk right up to the
Speaker 1: writer's room and tell them what I thought about something,
Speaker 1: or the editors area the editing bay as we call it.
Speaker 1: And I have real conversations with Claire or with our
Speaker 1: other amazing editor, Dave Rogers about the show. So ideas
Speaker 1: came from all different people, all of the time, right
Speaker 1: up until the very end. So the fact that Claire
Speaker 1: and I even have a relationship her as an editor
Speaker 1: and me as an actor. That speaks to the extra
Speaker 1: special specialness of our set. And speaking of people taking
Speaker 1: on different roles, well, Claire are also directed a couple
Speaker 1: of episodes of The Office, Yes, her first ever directing job,
Speaker 1: which of course has launched her into a full blown
Speaker 1: directing career. Yeah, Claire is kind of a big deal.
Speaker 1: If you watch television, there is no doubt you have
Speaker 1: seen something she has done, maybe The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt
Speaker 1: or Brooklyn nine nine, or The Mindy Project or her
Speaker 1: recent film Set It Up. Oh and did I mention
Speaker 1: that she won an Emmy for editing the finale of
Speaker 1: the Office. She's just too good. She's too good at
Speaker 1: at everything. Anyway, you will understand how stoked I was
Speaker 1: to get to see her and to talk to her.
Speaker 1: It was truly my pleasure. Here is my friend, the
Speaker 1: incredibly multi talented and impossibly brilliant Claire Scanlon. Bubb Lunch, squeak,
Speaker 1: I love it, bubble and squeak, bubble and squeaker cookie,
Speaker 1: every moment left over from the nat How are you good?
Speaker 1: Are golfing? What's going on? Why is it always about golfing,
Speaker 1: working card outside. Really that red you are just very tan,
Speaker 1: That's what I was, right, Well, um, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: how are you good? Goods really good? I was like teasing.
Speaker 1: I was like this because in the emails like conveniently located,
Speaker 1: I'm like gregg them all. Yeah. I brought a ton
Speaker 1: of pictures too, and yeah, yeah, it was really actually
Speaker 1: fun going to I haven't and weirdly, I have a
Speaker 1: lot of pictures of you really, just like I was,
Speaker 1: it's time to tell you the truth that I was
Speaker 1: totally obsessed with you and stopped you. You just didn't
Speaker 1: know what I did it very surreptitiously. Really, Yeah, see
Speaker 1: your pictures. I know, I'm pulling them up right now.
Speaker 1: The office. Um, there's one just that's like a rap
Speaker 1: some and you in the middle. This is like one
Speaker 1: of our story boards, you know, just like classic office storyboard.
Speaker 1: That's the very last mix session, that's for the finale. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's Matt So in case you could recognize him, he
Speaker 1: was Colonel Sanders, which having had just worked on I'm
Speaker 1: trying to be trying to be very diplomatic about this,
Speaker 1: but having just worked on another handheld show, it makes
Speaker 1: you really appreciate Matt and Sarah's work because it's such
Speaker 1: a skill, it's such an art, and so few people
Speaker 1: can do it well. So few. Well, it's crazy because
Speaker 1: they came from reality, but they knew how to construct
Speaker 1: the story. They knew not to go to you guys
Speaker 1: until you started speaking, which is such a palletic, artful
Speaker 1: thing that they never got credit for her because no
Speaker 1: one appreciates the storytelling they were doing and understanding the
Speaker 1: level of difficulty except other camera operators that would come
Speaker 1: and work on the show and fail. The editors really
Speaker 1: knew it, and the other people who tried and couldn't
Speaker 1: do it would like cut to you and be like, no,
Speaker 1: he Kevin hasn't spoken yet. You can't cut to Kevin
Speaker 1: because how do these the documentary filmmaker know that Kevin's
Speaker 1: going to speak? Right? I talked with Matt about this also,
Speaker 1: and I'd kind of forgotten about this. Really. The only
Speaker 1: way they cheated was they would have us do handles occasionally, right,
Speaker 1: so like Michael, yes, just to give them a reason
Speaker 1: to get over there, always looking for the reason right right,
Speaker 1: that he knew to do. That was awesome. Do you
Speaker 1: feel like was editing on the Office more or less
Speaker 1: difficult because of the way that it was. Because it
Speaker 1: was incredibly difficult. It was not easier than a more
Speaker 1: studio style Hollywood typical Hollywood sitcom or single camp show,
Speaker 1: much much more difficult. But that said, you had so
Speaker 1: much creativity and so much leeway. I think because Greg
Speaker 1: and Paul and Jen really respected the editor, the act
Speaker 1: of editing, the storytelling of editing, they gave so much leeway.
Speaker 1: So and they and especially Greg was not reverential with
Speaker 1: his scripts and himself as well, like when he would
Speaker 1: come into post like take that talking from act one
Speaker 1: and put it in three. And I remember doing casual
Speaker 1: Fridays and it was kind of too many storylines, way
Speaker 1: too long, and I was like, you know, this one
Speaker 1: needs how I was like, I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: I had cut this behemoth. You know, at towards the
Speaker 1: end they were all getting to be like forty minute
Speaker 1: long episodes and you're cutting a show out of the show.
Speaker 1: But this one in particular, I felt like, I don't
Speaker 1: know what we're going to do. And he was just genius.
Speaker 1: Like there was one Kelly Poor story that just became
Speaker 1: like almost like two shots and it was just like
Speaker 1: a little pop and it was so good as a
Speaker 1: result of it, and he just moved stuff every which way.
Speaker 1: Once you see that your boss is doing that, it
Speaker 1: kind of gives you a free er hand to do
Speaker 1: it yourself. Because I came on season five, so that's
Speaker 1: great point. So before you started you were editing documentaries.
Speaker 1: This was the very first scripted television show I ever edited, period,
Speaker 1: So I like literally went from no scripted to the
Speaker 1: number one company. It was just like, wow, try by
Speaker 1: fire first, one go for it. I knew that if
Speaker 1: I didn't do a good job, I wouldn't get as back.
Speaker 1: Like it was that simple. And Dave Rogers was amazing,
Speaker 1: and he always would watch my cuts, but initially, especially
Speaker 1: to me, like this is what we do, stays, don't
Speaker 1: cut away, don't pre lab stay on the joke till
Speaker 1: the end, you know, Like that was just something it
Speaker 1: would take kind of just like a more seasoned person
Speaker 1: to know. But then in other ways, I think because
Speaker 1: of my background, I was very comfortable with all of
Speaker 1: the shooting style, whereas I think other editors that would
Speaker 1: come on would be like WHOA, what the heck? Um?
Speaker 1: I remember my job interview with Jence Alatta, Mike Sure,
Speaker 1: Paul Everersen, and Greg Daniel. So not an intimidating group
Speaker 1: at all to be interviewing me. I literally like almost
Speaker 1: knew too little to be intimidated, Like I should have
Speaker 1: been shaking that ground like, but I almost was. Just
Speaker 1: like I knew Paul socially from an Inner of Twine niece.
Speaker 1: I knew him when he was writing. Clarisa explains it
Speaker 1: all personally. So what happened was a good friend of mine,
Speaker 1: Grady Cooper, who ended up editing quipond Um. He said, Hey, Claire,
Speaker 1: I heard there's a spinoff of the Office. Would you
Speaker 1: mind putting my name in the hat and giving it
Speaker 1: to Paul? And I called Paul and said, hey, my
Speaker 1: friend wants to put his name in the hat for
Speaker 1: the new show. And he's like, well, what about you?
Speaker 1: I was like what And he's like, what about you
Speaker 1: don't want to put your name in the hat? You're
Speaker 1: an editor too, And I said, okay, I never It
Speaker 1: just didn't even cross my mind that I would even
Speaker 1: have a chance. So Paul was conspicuously quiet in that
Speaker 1: meaning because I knew him, you know, socially and I
Speaker 1: met Greg and Suzanne at Paul's birthday party one year.
Speaker 1: I think, um, and to me, they were like the
Speaker 1: grown ups, which is so funny. They were like the pomps.
Speaker 1: They had a kid already like I was in my twenties,
Speaker 1: and they were just so mature. They were so mature,
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking like, oh, that's the dad when
Speaker 1: I went into the interview, like that, he's you the dad.
Speaker 1: And so I met with them. I said, I don't
Speaker 1: have any narrative editing background. I don't have I'm not
Speaker 1: this isn't my forte and I come from documentary. In fact,
Speaker 1: I've worked with a lot of your camera operators because
Speaker 1: we were all under the same roof at Mark Burnett Productions.
Speaker 1: And um, Greg's like, that's a plus that you've never
Speaker 1: done narrative. And I do come from documentary. I don't
Speaker 1: really come as much from reality. I've done tons of
Speaker 1: docs before, and weirdly docs on comedians. UM. I gravitated
Speaker 1: towards like Carol Burnett, a woman of character, Carry Grant,
Speaker 1: a class apart, Bob new Harden Button and it didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't set out with comedy in mind when I
Speaker 1: was I just kind of veered that way, like just
Speaker 1: like I don't know, it just kind of followed my
Speaker 1: lap that way. So Greg was very keen on the
Speaker 1: fact that I hadn't come up through the system, and
Speaker 1: I can see now in retrospect why that wasn't attractive quality,
Speaker 1: just and that you do thwart the script structure, which
Speaker 1: is like the script is Bible, and no other show
Speaker 1: runner lets who do that? Like can you imagine being
Speaker 1: on another show saying, oh, I put that three even
Speaker 1: though you wrote it in act one. But Greg two
Speaker 1: was also very reverential to the script on set. You know,
Speaker 1: if a director didn't shoot the words, he was pissed.
Speaker 1: But all fund runs improv is great, but you better
Speaker 1: have gotten at least one or two takes with the scripted.
Speaker 1: And then in post he didn't care, like and post
Speaker 1: he's like, let me see it the way it was written, Okay,
Speaker 1: now let's throw everything up in the air and start
Speaker 1: over again, which was so liberating, and I think that's
Speaker 1: also what led to just a whole level of another
Speaker 1: layer of comedy that other shows didn't have that opportunity for, Like,
Speaker 1: you couldn't have done what we did with the b
Speaker 1: roll and the talking I mean, you could take a
Speaker 1: show that was way too long, if it was too
Speaker 1: much exposition, you just had someone do a talking head
Speaker 1: and then you could delve right into the scene. Mid
Speaker 1: scene you could just get rid of so much of
Speaker 1: the shoe leather. So it was just such an unusual
Speaker 1: will show that way. I think obviously that mockumentary style
Speaker 1: worked because it worked for Parks and rec and Modern
Speaker 1: Family quite well. You know, other shows really were able
Speaker 1: to take that on and move forward with it. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know that I would say better
Speaker 1: than The Office, but I would just say it was
Speaker 1: clearly a format that worked in comedy, and other comedy
Speaker 1: stemmed from that, right. I think that for me, what's
Speaker 1: interesting is that we had rules in terms of how
Speaker 1: the camera worked, things that we were not allowed to break.
Speaker 1: Randall's talked about like, no, I'm not going to do
Speaker 1: a shot if I can't physically get it. If we
Speaker 1: have two cameras and one camera shooting from right behind Steve,
Speaker 1: then we can't shoot Steve front on or we would
Speaker 1: see the camera. And he talked about one of Greg's
Speaker 1: sort of adages early on was everything that makes it
Speaker 1: harder makes it better, you know, if the ang goal
Speaker 1: wasn't perfect and you didn't have everybody's face. I think
Speaker 1: that led led to the voyeurism and the realness of it.
Speaker 1: And I think the show's after the Office that emulated. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: Parkinson MC didn't quite do it the same, which is fine. No, No,
Speaker 1: they didn't do it. And I think Modern Family they
Speaker 1: did a monitored family. I directed when and I remember
Speaker 1: going in and you know, it's essentially construct that very
Speaker 1: heavily borrowed some you know, from the Office. I think
Speaker 1: they would all be very comfortable saying that. And I
Speaker 1: remember being like, well, let's get an over of cam
Speaker 1: doing this, and that we don't do overs. It's basically
Speaker 1: a percinium. It's a multi cam just with no audience,
Speaker 1: and that you have two cameras only just shooting a semicircle.
Speaker 1: It's just it was a very different way of shooting,
Speaker 1: very perm like being on stage. But they also don't
Speaker 1: acknowledge that the cameras there except in the talking yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and the talking heads. I feel like Phil Dumpy sometimes
Speaker 1: just stars in the camera, but not like Guilty. I
Speaker 1: feel like he's done that a couple of times. But
Speaker 1: I'm no expert on modern family I did one, but
Speaker 1: I do think that well, I think there were so
Speaker 1: many special things about the office that are unlike other
Speaker 1: ones that have used that, you know, I think there
Speaker 1: was a willingness to be ugly. I think that's why
Speaker 1: the camera operators and the dps never got acknowledged, and
Speaker 1: nobody was going out of their way to be not
Speaker 1: under fluorescent lights. I mean, it was not a pretty set,
Speaker 1: and if it was, it would have been weird. So
Speaker 1: do you think they didn't get appreciated because I feel
Speaker 1: like so. I worked with director of photographies all the time,
Speaker 1: and you always want them on your side. Yet at
Speaker 1: the same time it's a constant battle with comedy. When
Speaker 1: I come onto a project, my goals, my objectives are
Speaker 1: almost diametrically opposed to what the dp's job is. The
Speaker 1: dp's job, especially if there's a woman in the scene,
Speaker 1: is to make her beautiful. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Whereas
Speaker 1: when you said you had Randle in here and you
Speaker 1: were talking about soon, they understood and accepted the world
Speaker 1: of the office and the goal was comedy, Whereas I
Speaker 1: find myself having to say, I need this scene cross covered.
Speaker 1: I've got two comedy giants. Fill in the blank. On
Speaker 1: the office, it was everybody was a comedy giant. So
Speaker 1: I have two comedyans and I need I can't anticipate
Speaker 1: what they're gonna do and say, like I need that coverage.
Speaker 1: What if one does something and there's an electricity in
Speaker 1: the take and you cannot recreate that, I don't care.
Speaker 1: When cutting the Mindy Project pilot, it was Ed and
Speaker 1: Mindy in a scene and they did all this beautiful
Speaker 1: studio style, but Ed and Mindy were griffing and doing
Speaker 1: great fun runs and I was screwed. You know, I
Speaker 1: was screwed. So I'm always pushing, especially when there's such
Speaker 1: strong comedy people to cross cover, and a DP will
Speaker 1: always fight. A typical DP that doesn't buy into the
Speaker 1: comedy and the joy of what it is to shoot
Speaker 1: comedy will always fight. But she's got to look beautiful,
Speaker 1: she's got to be lit this way, and it's always
Speaker 1: she for the most part. It's like, I don't know
Speaker 1: where it's taught in cinematography school, but all women must
Speaker 1: be beautiful always at all times, like it's evil. Like
Speaker 1: Carol Burnette never adhered to that, and she was the
Speaker 1: number one person on television throughout the seventies, like think
Speaker 1: about Unice Unite was hideous, and she was the first
Speaker 1: to make fun of her aesthetics. And yet she could
Speaker 1: come out every evening and do her Q and A
Speaker 1: and be gorgeous in a job Bob mackiegown, you know,
Speaker 1: so like you knew she could bring it if she
Speaker 1: wanted to be beautiful. But where's the fun and that
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a struggle, it's and it's truly
Speaker 1: a conversation I have to have every time, you know. So,
Speaker 1: I just you caught me on a terror on something
Speaker 1: that I feel very passionately about. And I think coming
Speaker 1: up through the office where it was a given, Oh
Speaker 1: this doesn't look like right, who cares? They're hilarious, Like
Speaker 1: I don't care. You know, well, that's something that I think,
Speaker 1: well quite obviously the face of tele in a way
Speaker 1: began to change with our show. Yeah, And I also
Speaker 1: think the egalitarian nature of the office was something wonderful
Speaker 1: and desperately needed. And I think what was so wonderful
Speaker 1: as how all the characters just very slyly and almost
Speaker 1: it just seemed like so organically like it just seemed
Speaker 1: that you sort of just started to fall in love
Speaker 1: with the regular guy and the regular girl, you know,
Speaker 1: so like and on the office, the regular guy of
Speaker 1: the regular girl could be Stanley and it could be Oscar.
Speaker 1: And I think this was a time when you weren't
Speaker 1: seeing that much diversity in primetime television, especially in comedy.
Speaker 1: But see, it's interesting what you're saying right now. It
Speaker 1: never felt intentional. No, that's what I'm saying. I think
Speaker 1: it was like, well, I said slightly, but I don't
Speaker 1: know that it was Greg or your intentions, the writer's
Speaker 1: intention to be like, let's make America love the everyman.
Speaker 1: This wasn't like Willie Lohman time. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: think that that was their agenda. I do know, And
Speaker 1: I'm sure Gregg's talked about the differences between season one
Speaker 1: and season two and the Mandate, because I think that
Speaker 1: was huge, you know, humanizing Michael in a way that
Speaker 1: you needed to from season one. And I think even
Speaker 1: though the Mandate was specifically directed at Michael, this humanitarianism
Speaker 1: kind of slipped down to all of the character. Yes,
Speaker 1: when yours with Holly of course is a famous one,
Speaker 1: but like even someone who arch as Angela once in
Speaker 1: a while, just seeing that glimpse of vulnerability and you
Speaker 1: show me vulnerability. I'm on board with that character for life.
Speaker 1: And I think the opposite that with every single person
Speaker 1: practically on the show. Like I remember, I remember when
Speaker 1: Ellie came on. She came on just a little after me,
Speaker 1: and so we were kind of like the new girls,
Speaker 1: and I didn't know how you guys introduced new characters.
Speaker 1: I didn't know, like the writers just let them flounder
Speaker 1: and they waited for the actor to show them who
Speaker 1: they were. And it either worked her didn't. Obviously with
Speaker 1: Ellie Kemper it worked. But I remember getting Secretary's Day
Speaker 1: and she had a scene where Michael took her like
Speaker 1: Michael was very resistant but was told you gotta take
Speaker 1: your secretary out to lunch hot Secretary's Day, it's the rule.
Speaker 1: And then she has a meltdown and I remember thinking like, oh,
Speaker 1: she's going to make it because I didn't know, like
Speaker 1: I didn't hadn't seen much of her work before that.
Speaker 1: She was given like, hi, I'm aren. You know. It
Speaker 1: was a great scene and she was definitely driving it,
Speaker 1: and he was the reactor to everything that she was doing,
Speaker 1: and she gave him great stuff to work with, and
Speaker 1: in this I was like, she's got the chops. She
Speaker 1: can play with Michael. I mean, she can play with
Speaker 1: Steve Carrell, so she's gonna make it. So I think
Speaker 1: that it was a very intimidate. I remember when Kathy
Speaker 1: Bates came on, she was I hope this is okay
Speaker 1: to say, but like we were cutting her first few
Speaker 1: takes and her voice was a little warbily. She was
Speaker 1: so nervous and she told told you guys like and
Speaker 1: everyone was like, you're a freaking Oscar winner. How are
Speaker 1: you nervous to come play with us? You know this
Speaker 1: is a low, this is a nice She's like, you
Speaker 1: don't get it. You don't get it. And I think
Speaker 1: I feel like even I don't know that any of
Speaker 1: us got it. Because it was popular and I knew
Speaker 1: it was good. I knew it made me feel something
Speaker 1: in my heart. But just this whole like kids watching
Speaker 1: it now, and I mean, it can only imagine what
Speaker 1: it's like to be in your shoes, like not being
Speaker 1: able to watch down the street. I don't even more
Speaker 1: so than when it was on the air. Weird. It
Speaker 1: is weird, yeah, And I think by the way. Of course,
Speaker 1: it's she's Cathy. It's it wore off. You know, she's
Speaker 1: not the one. Did you see on TV? The episodes
Speaker 1: don't have that, But I just remember being bowled over
Speaker 1: by that and how it seems so easy from the
Speaker 1: inside and then coming in from the outside, Well, how
Speaker 1: was it for you when you came in? I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I can speak to this. There were two hires.
Speaker 1: You probably don't know this, but season five they hired
Speaker 1: two editors, me and another one, and without me really
Speaker 1: getting it because it was so new to me, I
Speaker 1: just saw, oh, well, if we're all good, well I'll
Speaker 1: just stay and we'll go in the next season. I'm
Speaker 1: so dumb, like not realizing, like they're just gonna go
Speaker 1: with one. This is a test, it's a survivor. It
Speaker 1: was awful, Like I'm so glad I was ignorant of it.
Speaker 1: And my very first season, season five, um, the episode
Speaker 1: I did with Paul Feige was nominated for an Emmy
Speaker 1: for Best Editing. So like boom, I've never done a
Speaker 1: narrative before and I get my first narrative. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: it's so unfair because I feel like I came into
Speaker 1: the most Popular Comedy, and then I got nominated for
Speaker 1: Best Editing, but like I did not even I was like,
Speaker 1: when I realized that it was kind of it was
Speaker 1: going to be one of the other. I was so
Speaker 1: grateful that I got nominated for an Emmy because I
Speaker 1: felt like if I hadn't and the other one had,
Speaker 1: then how do you not, Like I still think they
Speaker 1: would have hired me, but like that would have been
Speaker 1: harder to explain, Like, wait, how do you not go
Speaker 1: with the person that got you an Emmy nomination? It
Speaker 1: was just like very all good luck happened that year.
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Speaker 1: your podcasts. So you learned to edit scripted shows on
Speaker 1: the office, but really coming from you know, documentary, specifically
Speaker 1: comedy documentaries, this felt comfortable. Yeah. And also, by the way,
Speaker 1: like that same camaraderie that led to such a strong ensemble,
Speaker 1: it extended through I remember talking to John about this
Speaker 1: one time and we were just sitting I think he
Speaker 1: directed an episode. You know, I was ahead, so I
Speaker 1: would come to set John, I think you need to
Speaker 1: get this shot, you know, like you need to get
Speaker 1: this because otherwise how do we It was the bulldozer.
Speaker 1: Rain was taking a bulldozer in the warehouse and smashing
Speaker 1: it to the wall, and you needed the reverse and
Speaker 1: and I was like, I think you need that reverse
Speaker 1: and we were in there and he's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: no ego, Like it was fine for me to tell
Speaker 1: John and he needed this shot. Like I would come
Speaker 1: to set a lot, Dave would come to set a lot,
Speaker 1: and there was like that's not normal, like that you
Speaker 1: always are inviting that. By the way, I always asked
Speaker 1: the editor to come to set. Why wouldn't I want
Speaker 1: an extra pair of eyes that might be catching something?
Speaker 1: Because I'm in the thick of it with five other questions,
Speaker 1: like why wouldn't I want someone having my back. It's
Speaker 1: just a lovely thing to have. It's not about ego
Speaker 1: or power being a no tour there's no such thing.
Speaker 1: First of all. But with John, we were cutting his
Speaker 1: episode and I remember just being like this is such
Speaker 1: a cool place to work, like being just truly grateful.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I am happy to come in
Speaker 1: here every day. And I was like He's like yeah,
Speaker 1: he's like, there's not one person like that you want
Speaker 1: to like put your head down when you see them
Speaker 1: walking down the hall. He's like, there's not one person
Speaker 1: that I'm like avoid, like where you're like in high
Speaker 1: school or your first job or something, or like that
Speaker 1: person sucks. He's like, there's not one. There were over
Speaker 1: a hundred people there and he couldn't come. And we,
Speaker 1: by the way, we were totally gossiping, like he could
Speaker 1: have told me that there was no reason. There's no
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't tell this story if he actually
Speaker 1: named somebody, like but like we were like, come on,
Speaker 1: there's got to be somebody. Like everyone had their charm,
Speaker 1: you know, like everyone had the quirks. They're piccadillos. Greg
Speaker 1: could drive me crazy and I would talk to him
Speaker 1: about it. But like that's crazy right there, Like the
Speaker 1: show runner could drive me crazy, and then I could say, Greg,
Speaker 1: you're driving me crazy. Like I remember on the finale,
Speaker 1: there was this whole tangent and I'm sure you'll remember
Speaker 1: this about planting a tree. Andy sees the tree in
Speaker 1: the office and says that tree planty, Yes, exactly, Planty
Speaker 1: has been in here all its life. We've got to
Speaker 1: set Planty free, and you guys go out to the
Speaker 1: parking lot, you plant Planty, and then you go all
Speaker 1: the way back up to the office and then the
Speaker 1: ending and you hug, and then you go to the
Speaker 1: parking lot and you go to your respective cars, and
Speaker 1: that's truly the end of leaving under Mifflin and UM.
Speaker 1: I was writing notes down and we were over time
Speaker 1: for the finale and we were all Greg was incredibly emotional,
Speaker 1: but doing that guy thing where you don't let on
Speaker 1: that you're emotional, so you're just kind of weird, you know,
Speaker 1: like where you're just like heratic and sometimes irrational, but
Speaker 1: like what you really want to say is I'm really sad,
Speaker 1: but you're not going to say those words because you're
Speaker 1: a guy. So I was just taking out notes. We
Speaker 1: were too long, and I'd already pitched to cut Planty,
Speaker 1: and I truly believed he said okay, while we tried
Speaker 1: cutting Planty, and I wrote it down and I did
Speaker 1: it and it was better because not because that whole
Speaker 1: storyline wasn't interesting, but it was just almost just the
Speaker 1: physicality of being in the office, having Creed play the
Speaker 1: song and then taking planting down to the parking lotning.
Speaker 1: It was like a hiccup to something wonderful. You didn't
Speaker 1: need that hiccup. It just it was just an unnecessary
Speaker 1: extra beat. As sweet and poignant as it was, there
Speaker 1: were already like ten sweet and poignant moments that were
Speaker 1: happening with Creed Song, and too much poignancy diluted what
Speaker 1: was there. So I cut planting, and Howard happened to
Speaker 1: be walking by, and I showed it to Howard, and
Speaker 1: Greg's assistant Alyssa was also walking by, and I showed
Speaker 1: it to her, and they both separately went to Greg
Speaker 1: and said, oh my god, it's so much better without planting.
Speaker 1: And he came storming into my bay and he said,
Speaker 1: you put that back in? How dare you? I never did.
Speaker 1: You're sabotaging me. You're trying to get And I was
Speaker 1: like what he was at a hundred? I was like,
Speaker 1: bring it down. I said, first of all, I would
Speaker 1: never intentionally do something to sabotage you that. I was like,
Speaker 1: if you don't know that about me by now, I
Speaker 1: am just I am not that person. I'm just I
Speaker 1: don't even think I could sabotage someone if I tried
Speaker 1: like if that was my goal, I said, you created
Speaker 1: this show. I am here to service what you created
Speaker 1: and help you realize what you want. An he calmed down,
Speaker 1: like he was like, so first, let's get this paranoia
Speaker 1: out as that they happened to be walking by, which
Speaker 1: was true on both counts. They have maybe and that
Speaker 1: would happen all the time. By the way, we would
Speaker 1: just be wide by whether doors open, because it would
Speaker 1: get in sufferably hot and interesting things that I would
Speaker 1: walk by a people's bays and poke my head and
Speaker 1: it was just a very inclusive environment. When people are
Speaker 1: waiting for their next scene and they were born of
Speaker 1: being in their trailer, they'd come and show me something
Speaker 1: and it wasn't show me myself. It was like, hey,
Speaker 1: what you got this funny show me a funny scene,
Speaker 1: Like I just want to see what's going on in
Speaker 1: the show, Like actors would come in all the time.
Speaker 1: So he said, okay, well show me, and then I
Speaker 1: showed it to him and he's like, okay, leave it out.
Speaker 1: But like it was like I had to talk him off, alledge.
Speaker 1: I think that's what makes him so interesting is he
Speaker 1: does clearly have and I think it was for the
Speaker 1: better ultimately for the show. This I don't want to
Speaker 1: say inferiority complex, but this like someone's always going to
Speaker 1: try to get one over on me kind of thing
Speaker 1: going on, Like and you're just you almost have to, Like,
Speaker 1: like with every coworker and or boss, I think you
Speaker 1: kind of have to just to really get to know
Speaker 1: their psychology. And you're working with this, you know, pound gorilla,
Speaker 1: Greg Daniels, who's so so so smart and so funny
Speaker 1: that like to stand up to him require some hotspun
Speaker 1: your own, and it's kind of empowering. And I always
Speaker 1: did it. I didn't always, you know, I had confidence
Speaker 1: in what he had created, so I wanted to make
Speaker 1: sure it was the best version of what was written
Speaker 1: and acted. And I'd make good arguments and then he'd
Speaker 1: make great counter argument. We have a really good discourse
Speaker 1: to get to lock. And I think that was also
Speaker 1: very unique and special. You know, I always have Greg
Speaker 1: in my head when I'm directing, because I heard his
Speaker 1: opinion on everybody else's, you know, as an editor, I
Speaker 1: heard what he thought of every director, and he thought
Speaker 1: the world of many and then like sometimes he'd be like,
Speaker 1: how could they not have gotten that? Like and I
Speaker 1: always in my mind like, let's just do one more,
Speaker 1: like and thinking like what didn't I get? What would
Speaker 1: Greg be? Like? How can they have gotten that? You know,
Speaker 1: I always want to have that showrunner in the back
Speaker 1: of my head saying and that show runner's voice because
Speaker 1: Greg was my first is always Greg. Right. Did you
Speaker 1: feel anything? Um? I mean you were the only woman editor.
Speaker 1: Was that a thing for you? Did you feel no?
Speaker 1: If anything? Like? I remember like so much personal stuff
Speaker 1: going now for me, Jenna coming into my office, shutting
Speaker 1: the door and be like this is what you need
Speaker 1: to do, like just giving it to me, no nonsense,
Speaker 1: I mean, if anything, I feel like, um, gender was
Speaker 1: just not even an issue. And you know, when people
Speaker 1: saw that it was a problem, it was such a
Speaker 1: close knit group that people actually did something about it.
Speaker 1: Like they didn't just like sit and let you like
Speaker 1: kind of fester in a corner, and they were like, hey,
Speaker 1: let me poke you, let me help you. I think
Speaker 1: any I wish more women directors had been there. I
Speaker 1: wish it wasn't just me, Mindy and Jen. There were
Speaker 1: three women directors and we were all in house, right
Speaker 1: Denny came there was one woman director. There were a few,
Speaker 1: but before before your time, I will say, and I mean,
Speaker 1: this is not to besmirch anybody, and I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to be controversial. And you've heard how wonderful. Of course,
Speaker 1: I will say, I just don't think in two thousand
Speaker 1: and four people were thinking like this, like I just
Speaker 1: don't think it was. It was like, here's your here's
Speaker 1: your stable, here's the people they do comedy. Go. But
Speaker 1: that said, I will speak to the writer's room. The
Speaker 1: writer's room was conspicuously lack of diversity, homogeneous white guys
Speaker 1: from Harvard, Like, that's just a And when I got air,
Speaker 1: Ellie said, Hey, my sister is a writer. I feel weird.
Speaker 1: Would you give her worked? Paul, who's the show owner then?
Speaker 1: And I said, Paul, You're male to female ratio in
Speaker 1: the writer's room is abysmal. And this is really I
Speaker 1: read this. It's a one. It's about a dog committing
Speaker 1: suicide in a pool. It was really funny. And I
Speaker 1: was like, this is Carrie Kemper. It's atle sister, but
Speaker 1: it's good, Like, don't let that, you know, don't let
Speaker 1: that nepotism scare you off. And he had no nepotism
Speaker 1: our show. Really that said he interviewed her. It was
Speaker 1: good because that would have been a hard thing if
Speaker 1: she hadn't been able to write. But it got better,
Speaker 1: and I do think that it was just like, I
Speaker 1: don't think there was malice. I think that's the way
Speaker 1: it happens in every writer's room and every and it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: I got a show. The people I trust came out
Speaker 1: of school with me. Oh, I just happened to go
Speaker 1: to Harvard and write for lampoo. I don't think it's malicious,
Speaker 1: like Conan O'Brien's like, hey, Greg, come out, I'm working
Speaker 1: on this great show called The Simpsons. She was check
Speaker 1: it out Thanking of the Hill. Then, I don't think
Speaker 1: it's an agenda. I'm just glad that Um it got
Speaker 1: better over the course of the years. Yeah, what we
Speaker 1: talked about this a little bit, but I don't want
Speaker 1: to miss it. If there's something what specifically made editing
Speaker 1: the Office harder than a traditional show, um, I think
Speaker 1: it was the volume. Let's start with the volume of
Speaker 1: the scripts were long, so I think you were I
Speaker 1: think you'd have like seven days to complete your cut,
Speaker 1: so you figure if it's a forty page script, which
Speaker 1: more and more often they were. You were cutting a
Speaker 1: forty minute assembly or editor's cut, and then from that
Speaker 1: there were just so many steps to get it to time,
Speaker 1: and cutting twenty minutes out of a forty minute show
Speaker 1: is it's kind of bonkers. I mean, that's why I
Speaker 1: think the NBC dot com came up, The Accountants and
Speaker 1: all of those great spinoffs, which at the time webisodes
Speaker 1: were great. I mean we do webisodes and deleted scenes
Speaker 1: like I mean, it was you could use the word overshooting.
Speaker 1: I mean I liked it because I remember Ed was
Speaker 1: once saying like, this is crazy that we're shooting. This
Speaker 1: is crazy. That's what we're doing. This is not fair.
Speaker 1: We were working as to the book, like it's not
Speaker 1: it's not normal. But it made the show better because
Speaker 1: we had so many different Like I remember, there was
Speaker 1: a storyline it was Jim and Pam had a silent fight,
Speaker 1: and it was established you track it throughout the day.
Speaker 1: It was really well done, well directed, well acted, and
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Jim or Pam I
Speaker 1: can't even remember at this point says I'm really sorry,
Speaker 1: and they hold hands in the parking lot as they
Speaker 1: walked to their car. And it's resolved or I don't
Speaker 1: even know that anyone apologizes. I think it just looks
Speaker 1: and no one will ever know about storyline, you know,
Speaker 1: like all these and that one that one didn't even
Speaker 1: make it to deleted scenes and now it was really good.
Speaker 1: Like there were so many good C D E. F.
Speaker 1: Worry lines ever got to see, right, Yeah, they're somewhere
Speaker 1: buried in avid Um archives. So you did an interview
Speaker 1: with on the Wringer and you said, when you do documentaries,
Speaker 1: you have to be comprehensive and watch everything that the
Speaker 1: subject has ever done. And you said, subliminably, subliminably, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's Michael Scott. Subliminally through osmosis. I was
Speaker 1: getting my comedy doctorate watching the best of the best, comprehensively,
Speaker 1: seeing everything they've ever done. So as a result, I
Speaker 1: kept working towards comedy. Um, was there anything in terms
Speaker 1: of comedy that you learned from the office. I remember
Speaker 1: I had a quote board and I don't see if
Speaker 1: I can find it on my quote board. I don't.
Speaker 1: It was like a white board, and UM, I had
Speaker 1: one question I never put who said what? But um,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you who was? There was one I heard
Speaker 1: is I do have it. I'll say it directly. I
Speaker 1: compul some of that air out. And then it says
Speaker 1: there's a lot of comedy in that air. And it
Speaker 1: was me trying to get a show to time, and
Speaker 1: I said, I could, you know, rather than cut stuff,
Speaker 1: I can pull some air out. And it was Paul
Speaker 1: Eberstine Who's like, there's a lot of comedy in that air,
Speaker 1: and I think it's letting things breathe. It's just such
Speaker 1: a pacing issue. It's a dance. It's a rhythm. They say,
Speaker 1: if you know, if if you're a good dancer, you'll
Speaker 1: be a good editor, or you can't be a good
Speaker 1: editor unless you can dance, because it's all pacing in rhythm.
Speaker 1: And that's so true. And that's why those reaction passes
Speaker 1: was like kind of gold for us, you know, just
Speaker 1: when a scene wasn't working, just anyone. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: the famous A gym every two seconds is like commenting
Speaker 1: for you and you're saying, but I also liked it
Speaker 1: when it was coming from someone else's point. Jim was
Speaker 1: the great entree in the first few seasons, but I
Speaker 1: feel like everyone had their own particular take on the comedy,
Speaker 1: which would make that reaction that much more powerful, Like
Speaker 1: going to create oblivious, you know, that's just as funny,
Speaker 1: like not like everyone's like, what's going on in there?
Speaker 1: And he's just like, you're not even paying a dungeon,
Speaker 1: Like that's funny too. I just found another picture of
Speaker 1: you and me. This is and I like this picture
Speaker 1: so much because this picture is us eating lunch together.
Speaker 1: Like that's like it was like high school, right, Like
Speaker 1: we're just sitting and we all like you just sat
Speaker 1: down and ate with people. You know, that's not the
Speaker 1: norm on other shows. It just doesn't. And you know,
Speaker 1: we were there long enough that people went through big
Speaker 1: life stuff like not to get into too much detail,
Speaker 1: but I got divorced on the Office, and I can
Speaker 1: tell you there's no other job I would have wanted
Speaker 1: to have been on during that hard time. You know.
Speaker 1: I remember going to a table read once and being like, Paul,
Speaker 1: I have to go to my therapists and he was like,
Speaker 1: oh go, you know, you know, like just a given,
Speaker 1: like just such a warm welcoming, just a really really
Speaker 1: I think from the top down, you know, you had
Speaker 1: Ken koppas Greg Daniels, Steve Carrell, So which one of
Speaker 1: those guys is a jackass? It's going to make your
Speaker 1: life a living out just those are. I mean. I
Speaker 1: barely worked with Ken and after the office he kind
Speaker 1: of took me under his wing when I was starting
Speaker 1: to direct more and was just like, Okay, you can
Speaker 1: do this, you know, and he would just like I
Speaker 1: remember the first show. One of the first shows I
Speaker 1: got was a show called um oh my gosh, I
Speaker 1: can't remember what it was called something men in the title. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it was canceled, but he was helping me prep. He
Speaker 1: was just like, Okay, what's your biggest scene. Let's talk through,
Speaker 1: like just really just kind kind kind and like saying.
Speaker 1: With Greg Daniels, I did a movie called Set It Up.
Speaker 1: He came in. The first person I wanted to show
Speaker 1: it too was Greg Daniels. Like, come into post What's good,
Speaker 1: What's bad? There's this moment where these two are having
Speaker 1: this conversation and it's like she, the girl, is holding
Speaker 1: the guy to task for his bad acts, and Greg's like,
Speaker 1: you need to be in a close up here. You
Speaker 1: need to see the moment where she changes her mind
Speaker 1: and she's letting him back in. He's so good, Like
Speaker 1: he's just so good. He's like, you need to see
Speaker 1: her opening the door, and he was dead right. No
Speaker 1: one touched that scene after cranking, which is really neat,
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Speaker 1: Welcome Out in machines. So you start much like Mattson
Speaker 1: Randall them as camera people. In reality you're editing documentaries.
Speaker 1: You come on the office and then you start directing.
Speaker 1: You've talked about it a little bit up to now.
Speaker 1: It was something that occurred to me. You know, you
Speaker 1: become a director from a very particular background, right, like
Speaker 1: editing and assembling and post and Son and Randall like
Speaker 1: from a really from a camera perspective. But the thing
Speaker 1: that I remember is people on your side wanting to
Speaker 1: have conversations with actors about like how act because that
Speaker 1: was something that was new, right. Did you feel that
Speaker 1: as well? I remember Ken Coob is giving me some
Speaker 1: great advice. He said, everyone there has a job to do.
Speaker 1: Some guys got to do so and make sure it
Speaker 1: sounds good. Actors have to be true to their characters.
Speaker 1: Writers have to make sure the jokes are told correctly
Speaker 1: and the story is told. Dps to make sure everyone
Speaker 1: is on camera that should be and it's blocked correctly
Speaker 1: along with the director. But he said, but the director's
Speaker 1: most important job is to represent the audience. And if
Speaker 1: the director doesn't get it, the director has to raise
Speaker 1: their hand and be the pain in the ass and
Speaker 1: say this isn't working, and that nobody wants to do that.
Speaker 1: Nobody wants. Everyone's gonna look at you and be like,
Speaker 1: I want to go home to my family. I don't
Speaker 1: want to do this. We're just and I've had to
Speaker 1: like be you have to be unpopular sometimes to do that.
Speaker 1: And I it was such helpful advice, you know. And
Speaker 1: I remember I was I was setting up a scene
Speaker 1: and here comes trouble in the conference room. It was
Speaker 1: a party, and um Rain came in and he was like,
Speaker 1: oh no, no, no, I don't think I would be
Speaker 1: here and we'd already we'd rehearsed it, and he's like,
Speaker 1: this is working. So he's like, I think I should
Speaker 1: do this. This This isn't He gave his opinion and I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, let's do that, and we started and
Speaker 1: it didn't work at all, and we had to come
Speaker 1: back to the way I had it done, and and
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, I had done my homework. I
Speaker 1: had a reason for I'd really worked, like I take
Speaker 1: prep very seriously. And I understand why Rain came at
Speaker 1: me because he didn't. I didn't. He didn't have confidence
Speaker 1: in me, Like why should he it was my second
Speaker 1: episode of Dragon TV ever. And so just learning that
Speaker 1: dance of like when to speak up, when to stand back,
Speaker 1: and then slowly gain trust. I mean that's everything, is
Speaker 1: gaining trust and then proving myself. Like so I remember
Speaker 1: was a scene with John and he was walking out
Speaker 1: with Jenna and and he's like, I think we should.
Speaker 1: You know, John a lot of the times had really
Speaker 1: good ideas. I wish he came up with them before
Speaker 1: we lit. He'd always come up with such he was
Speaker 1: like he would dial in when it was actually the
Speaker 1: cameras up and at Jim would never do this, and
Speaker 1: we would always say, you're absolutely right Brown University. Why
Speaker 1: didn't you come back and bring that Brown University education
Speaker 1: to the rehearsal? Where was your head in? So um,
Speaker 1: He's like, I think it would work better this way,
Speaker 1: and he said, let's let's try that and and let's
Speaker 1: do John's way, and then he did it a couple
Speaker 1: of times say like your way was better. So like
Speaker 1: it was just like finding that like dance of like
Speaker 1: working with people gaining trust. And then after that I
Speaker 1: felt like, Okay, I could do this. But I remember
Speaker 1: the first day was like starting with talking heads It
Speaker 1: was very gentle entree into directing, and Paul would come
Speaker 1: for every rehearsal and there were lots of safety nuts
Speaker 1: for me that first week. But I remember halfway through
Speaker 1: the day of my first day ever directing, already two
Speaker 1: questions or lobbed your way that morning and I was like,
Speaker 1: I can do this. I can do this. It was lunch.
Speaker 1: I was like collecting myself and I was like, why
Speaker 1: would anyone want to do this? Like I was literally
Speaker 1: and then by the end of the day I turned
Speaker 1: the corner and I was like, I want to do this,
Speaker 1: like but it was that halfway mark was like brutal
Speaker 1: kind of like Okay, I can I can do this.
Speaker 1: I can do this, and then coming around and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: not only can I I want to And that's what
Speaker 1: you do now. And that's what I mean. I never
Speaker 1: stopped loving editing. I love directing, but I really there's
Speaker 1: something there's your building a world in an edit bay,
Speaker 1: and um writers create out of the blue sky. But
Speaker 1: I feel like editors are like sculptors that work with
Speaker 1: negative space and they shave it away and it's a
Speaker 1: different kind of writing, and I think there's something wonderful
Speaker 1: about seeing what something can be and realizing it. Like
Speaker 1: I felt that way so strongly. I was so proud
Speaker 1: of the finale of the series. There's this one pam
Speaker 1: talking head that like, I can't wait to show my
Speaker 1: daughter when she's older, where she says, you know, this
Speaker 1: has been such an amazing experience and the documentary has
Speaker 1: been so invaluable. If I could talk to my younger self,
Speaker 1: I wish I could have told her to seize the
Speaker 1: moment sooner and just stand up for yourself and go
Speaker 1: for it. Like it was so powerful. I just even
Speaker 1: thinking about it makes me like misty because it's just
Speaker 1: like I was a woman. You were just not seeing
Speaker 1: that on TV, you know, and it was such a
Speaker 1: powerful message. So it was a really that was a
Speaker 1: really special Just the whole ending was sad and special,
Speaker 1: and it's all a blur because we're also pulling all
Speaker 1: night ers when we were doing it, But it was
Speaker 1: so worth it, and I think we all knew when
Speaker 1: it came to an end that one it was the
Speaker 1: right time, and to that we've all been part of
Speaker 1: something extraordinary. You're proud of how we ended? Oh my god, yeah,
Speaker 1: are you? I mean the last two I mean, ARM
Speaker 1: could have been a RM, could have been the finale
Speaker 1: as well. I feel like both episodes are so strong,
Speaker 1: but like having Steve come back was great. That was
Speaker 1: such a special day too, you know when he came
Speaker 1: for the wedding and you guys didn't know. You guys
Speaker 1: know some some some people knew. Obviously the studio didn't know,
Speaker 1: the networking studio. We're piss We hit the dailies, we
Speaker 1: went to another we outsourced thumb. They never knew until
Speaker 1: it aired. They saw the morning it aired. They were
Speaker 1: so pissed. They were piste. Well what we didn't want
Speaker 1: them to promo it, and it would have you know,
Speaker 1: he would have been in the promo. And Greg had
Speaker 1: such a guilty conscience and he's like, all these people
Speaker 1: are asking Steve's coming back and we have to lie
Speaker 1: and say no. And he's like, Ken, don't you feel
Speaker 1: like an awful person for lying to everybody? And kids
Speaker 1: like not at all. I feel I feel nothing. I
Speaker 1: don't care. He didn't want them to ruin it. So
Speaker 1: what we did was right. Yeah, it was great and
Speaker 1: you won for that episode, Yeah, Dave and I So
Speaker 1: I was kind in the first half and Dave was
Speaker 1: cutting a second half and then Greg swapped us halfway
Speaker 1: through and he said, clear, you finish, and Dave you
Speaker 1: start with the beginning. And it was like a mind
Speaker 1: funk because that's the air, you don't I've seen all
Speaker 1: the dailies. I've seen every inch of it, and then
Speaker 1: you're just swapping it out and it was crushing. But
Speaker 1: then it was great, you know, like fresh eyes and everything.
Speaker 1: So I think that was really great. And Dave and
Speaker 1: I hit at that point we're just like ying and yang.
Speaker 1: We were very very new, very much what each other's
Speaker 1: strengths were. And he just he'd been there since season one,
Speaker 1: so I mean, he just was such a He's an encyclopedia.
Speaker 1: He's so much better at me. Like people will throw
Speaker 1: out a certain episode like okay, what season, Like he
Speaker 1: just knows that said, I also haven't gone back and
Speaker 1: watched them in a long time, like form for me,
Speaker 1: someone bring up some serious emotions like niagara or something like.
Speaker 1: That was such a great episode to edit. It was
Speaker 1: wonderful because there was music, like I also cut the
Speaker 1: scene in arm even though Dave and I would share
Speaker 1: like so if I was ahead, I would just take
Speaker 1: some scenes from him, and I was I was good
Speaker 1: at doing I've done all these like documentaries where you
Speaker 1: had to do these opening montages. So for the Jim
Speaker 1: and Pam the video that Jim gives Pam, I cut
Speaker 1: that to snow Patrol in Dave's episode because I like
Speaker 1: doing those things and he hates doing those things. And um,
Speaker 1: and I got to do the Niagara the dancing thing
Speaker 1: to the Chris Brown song and that was really fun.
Speaker 1: And I remember getting to use Randall's footage that he shot.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm super eight. And Niagara they went
Speaker 1: to Niagara Falls, and I think he I know he
Speaker 1: shot film. I don't think it was super sixteen, but
Speaker 1: it could have been Super sixteen. Yeah, you know, it
Speaker 1: was probably super sixteen. It was not shitty enough to
Speaker 1: be supree and I remember seeing and so this was
Speaker 1: very much like cutting a documentary because they didn't speak.
Speaker 1: So um. There's the last scene of Niagara where Jim
Speaker 1: and Pam are on the bow of the boat and
Speaker 1: he puts his arm around her and he looks right
Speaker 1: into the camera and he just like it's not even
Speaker 1: like cocky, it's just like sweet, like hotter, you know,
Speaker 1: and Jim John and Jenna came into my bay to
Speaker 1: see it. They were like, we need to see this show.
Speaker 1: We need to sign off on this big, big one.
Speaker 1: And after that, I'd like turned around and they're bawling,
Speaker 1: and I was like, yes, because that's all you want
Speaker 1: to do is make people cry. Like you working comment,
Speaker 1: but like for the poignant moments, all you want is
Speaker 1: to make people cry. It was awesome. It was awesome
Speaker 1: then coming in there and seeing we kind of shared
Speaker 1: this and no one else will know that, you know,
Speaker 1: but it was really a sweet moment to be a
Speaker 1: part of in their journey, you know, and just almost
Speaker 1: be just a witness to it. What grows in the
Speaker 1: forest trees, Sure you know what else grows in the forest,
Speaker 1: our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds
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Speaker 1: start exploring. I Discover the Forest dot Org. Brought to
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Speaker 1: crime podcast, The Pink Moon Murders. The local sheriff believes
Speaker 1: there may be more than one killery. It's been four
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Speaker 1: It scared me to death, Like it scared me. I
Speaker 1: was very, very intimidating to live here. Crazy to think
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Speaker 1: and you can follow The Pink Moon Murders on the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Um put on the headphones. I just want
Speaker 1: to play one thing for you here. This is from
Speaker 1: the finale that you cut. I thought it was weird
Speaker 1: when you picked us to make a documentary. But all
Speaker 1: in all, I think an ordinary paper company like dunder
Speaker 1: Mifflin was a great subject for a documentary. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of beauty and ordinary things. Isn't that kind of
Speaker 1: the point? So Greg having written that, it clearly he
Speaker 1: thinks that's what the point was. What did you think
Speaker 1: it was? Of the office? I don't know if he
Speaker 1: talked about this, but he told me that whenever he
Speaker 1: was stimied or stuck, the moral compass of the show
Speaker 1: was was Pam. And whenever he was stuck and what
Speaker 1: would what would Pam do here? He would actually say,
Speaker 1: what would Suzanne do here? Did he tell you this? Oh?
Speaker 1: It's it's like the best love letter? I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm speaking out of school here. I thought that was
Speaker 1: like the most romantic thing to say. You know, he
Speaker 1: loves his wife so much she put her in Pam.
Speaker 1: He basically created this whole series. You think it's Michael Scott,
Speaker 1: but it's also Pam. She is the moral compass of
Speaker 1: the show, and she is the person that you as
Speaker 1: you want to aspire to be as good as and
Speaker 1: be it good enough to be with if you're a Jim.
Speaker 1: For me, the whole series is all about growing up,
Speaker 1: and when a character grows up, they don't need to
Speaker 1: be in the office. I also think that Michael Scott
Speaker 1: from Me I was nostalgic for because his story, his
Speaker 1: arc is a beautiful one. You know, he is a
Speaker 1: person whose mom is screening out his vhone calls at
Speaker 1: night when he's all alone in his office with no
Speaker 1: friends or anyone to hang out, no family to go
Speaker 1: home to, and you see his pain. And then the
Speaker 1: next morning he comes in and he asks like a
Speaker 1: blow hard buffoon, and he tries to force his entire
Speaker 1: workforce into being his family and friends. And I forgive
Speaker 1: him every moment of it because I was led into
Speaker 1: his vulnerability and I saw his cracks, and I understand
Speaker 1: why he's doing what he's doing, and I'm rooting for him,
Speaker 1: and so over the course of it, you see each
Speaker 1: season he grows a little more, and by season seven
Speaker 1: he is finally worthy of Holly, worthy of a family.
Speaker 1: He's grown, He's become the best version of himself, and
Speaker 1: I'm rooting for him and Holly. So for me, it
Speaker 1: was such a clearan exit. You know, it was so
Speaker 1: well deserved, so well told, so that I wanted to
Speaker 1: see that journey in others, you know, And and it
Speaker 1: was nice that there was more space for other people
Speaker 1: to have those same goals. And it was nice to
Speaker 1: see Jim and Pam go beyond the fairy tale and
Speaker 1: see like, whoa, there's bumps in marriage? Like that was
Speaker 1: really that was great. I liked being able to service
Speaker 1: more of the characters as a result. But I do
Speaker 1: think that that's kind of what I was alluding to earlier.
Speaker 1: It is giving equal time to lots of people who
Speaker 1: don't normally get I mean, like just the very fact
Speaker 1: that I said the more all compass as a woman.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be the dead horse. But there's
Speaker 1: not parody yet, you know. So it's nice that she
Speaker 1: got that part in the show. And then it was
Speaker 1: nice that everyone got their stories told, like what what
Speaker 1: what primetime show had some of the heartfelt moments that
Speaker 1: Phillow Scott. You know, how many assistant casting directors get
Speaker 1: to go on become on a network company start Like
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just crazy, like the trajector dre and
Speaker 1: the impact and the humanity. I keep coming back to
Speaker 1: that word humanity, but it really is a utopic society,
Speaker 1: and I think that it's not shocking that kids are
Speaker 1: gravitating towards that today because I think we see just
Speaker 1: the opposite every day in the news, and it's it's
Speaker 1: so disheartening, you know, And I want to go live
Speaker 1: in scranted in the world of the office, that's the
Speaker 1: appeal now, I think. So. I mean, it's not about
Speaker 1: getting rich, it's not about being popular. It's about being
Speaker 1: happy and being kind to others. I mean, on very
Speaker 1: few other shows do you see people being so kind
Speaker 1: to each other. I mean, I'm not a religious person,
Speaker 1: but I can see why people kind of go to
Speaker 1: the church of the Office. Um, when Pam is having
Speaker 1: a vulnerable moment with Dwight and then he says, you're
Speaker 1: on your period, you know, it's under cuts. It's like
Speaker 1: you're getting to all those like feelings. And then of
Speaker 1: course it's a comedy, so it's okay. But like he's
Speaker 1: really trying. He's a jackass, he's really trying, right, right,
Speaker 1: The intention is there? Yeah, and you're kind of route like, oh,
Speaker 1: he can almost do this right, almost almost not quite. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be a comedy if you could, right, I'll
Speaker 1: just tell you this weird thing that I've settled on
Speaker 1: here in terms of that that your brain would tell
Speaker 1: you that the more general would be the more universal.
Speaker 1: But with the Office, the characters were drawn so specifically,
Speaker 1: and that ultimately that is the thing that I think
Speaker 1: has made it more universal, that it's actually so specific. Yea,
Speaker 1: instead of pleasing all the people, you're just being true
Speaker 1: to a character building and telling a story, which ultimately
Speaker 1: does make it appeal to more people. It's counterintuitive, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I mean I always get so frustrated and just
Speaker 1: been working on anything new where you are underest making
Speaker 1: the sophistication of the audience. They are smart and they
Speaker 1: can sniff out phoniness so quickly, especially now and like
Speaker 1: peak TV. You know, people are just so smart. And
Speaker 1: I think the Office was ahead. It was ten years
Speaker 1: ahead of its time. He just was the American Office,
Speaker 1: I mean in the British Office. Well, and now we're
Speaker 1: maybe that's it. Maybe it was ten years ahead of
Speaker 1: its time. And now, because as you said before, the
Speaker 1: show is bigger now. It is like people will be
Speaker 1: like I watched episode I see your Name. I felt
Speaker 1: like their kids, they're watching it with their kids. My
Speaker 1: peers are watching They never watched my peers didn't watch
Speaker 1: it when I worked on it, but they're watching it
Speaker 1: now with their children. Right. Well, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming to talk to me. Sure, this has been great.
Speaker 1: I am so happy for you and your success. Thank you.
Speaker 1: And you're so smart and thoughtful, and I just so
Speaker 1: appreciate and care for you you and oh, thank you. Right,
Speaker 1: that's awfully right back at you. Thank you for thinking
Speaker 1: of me. One thing I didn't mention is that, you
Speaker 1: know we still work. We still work in this town,
Speaker 1: and I see people once in a blue moon, I'll
Speaker 1: bump into um, Greg the p A or um you know,
Speaker 1: I worked with Danny Chun from time to time, or
Speaker 1: a writer that we've worked with. But a lot of
Speaker 1: times on sets, you know, you'll see someone I've worked with, Kelly,
Speaker 1: and you go up and you're like, Okay, who's the
Speaker 1: so and so so and so, like who's like Matt
Speaker 1: Sown over here? And like who you know, who's the
Speaker 1: no nonsense and who can I talk to about this?
Speaker 1: And it's just like a shorthand. I call it going
Speaker 1: to the University of Greg Daniels because we all went
Speaker 1: to school with under him. He was our master, professor, principal,
Speaker 1: and then we all shot out and went elsewhere, but
Speaker 1: remembered each other. And oh, that's my school made over there.
Speaker 1: So I that's the person I have a shorthand with.
Speaker 1: And when I see that familiar face, it's like coming home.
Speaker 1: And I just never, I never, never, never take the
Speaker 1: office for granted. I don't take any of those years
Speaker 1: for granted. Every day I walked into that office, I
Speaker 1: was aware of how good I had it, how good
Speaker 1: the people, how protected we were, how wonderful it was
Speaker 1: to be on that stage away from everything, and how
Speaker 1: kind everybody was to everybody, even when they were in
Speaker 1: a mood. People were not jackasses. They just weren't. It
Speaker 1: just wasn't tolerated, which is wonderful. Yeah, oh my god,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Like you're I mean, I forget
Speaker 1: that you're a real smart I know I'm not. Yeah, Oh,
Speaker 1: how amazing is she? Thank you, Claire for your wisdom
Speaker 1: and for everything you brought to the show. I am
Speaker 1: so happy to be and alumni of the University of
Speaker 1: Greg Daniels, and I love that we got to have
Speaker 1: this this little class reunion together from all of us
Speaker 1: here at the Office Deep Dive especially me since I'm talking.
Speaker 1: Have a great week and we will be back next
Speaker 1: Tuesday with another brilliant woman from the office, but this time, oh,
Speaker 1: she is someone who was in front of the camera.
Speaker 1: See you next week. The Office Deep Dive is hosted
Speaker 1: and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive
Speaker 1: producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers
Speaker 1: are Emily Carr and Diego Tapia, and our intern is
Speaker 1: Hannah Harris. My main man in the booth is Alec Moore.
Speaker 1: Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great
Speaker 1: friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olandskip.
Speaker 1: We've all felt left out and for people who moved
Speaker 1: to this country, that feeling last more than a moment.
Speaker 1: We can change that. Learn How it Belonging begins with
Speaker 1: us dot Org, brought to you by the Ad Council.
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