WEBVTT - Mutual Aid Work on the Border 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:08.560 Hello, podcast fans, it's just me today, It's just James, 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:11.840 and we're doing another episode about the border. I'm joined 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:16.079 today by Emmett and David from the Borderlands Relief Collective. 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.120 We're going to talk a little bit about people doing 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.200 mutual aid on the border, the situation on the border 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:25.280 and for those of you who live a long way 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:29.560 away from it, and a sort of pretty shitty thing 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.480 that Border patrol did to some supplies which were left 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:36.040 out on the border earlier this month. So yeah, I 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:37.800 met and David. If you'd like to sort of introduce 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:39.680 yourself and expend a little bit about the roles you play, 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.480 that would be great either. I'm happy to be here. 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:46.760 My name's Emmett. I am putting my time between being 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:53.240 a geochemist descriptionsitition of oceanography, a PhD student, and trying 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:55.840 to reconcile what it means to be living in this 0:00:55.960 --> 0:01:00.400 border lands and being a private community that is partially 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.440 criminalized depending on who you were, where you come from, 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.480 and also what it means for you to seek safety 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:09.400 and freedom in your life. So I work in several 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:16.600 organizing spaces trying to shut down different detention centers as 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:21.960 well as supporting folks just mckends meet in San Diego 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:29.319 and also supporting people keeping their lives and staying alive 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:35.399 in this extreme border borderlands that we live on. Hey, 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:40.679 my name's David. My job I work as a surgeon. 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:44.880 I've been living in San Diego for about ten years 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:53.360 and I've been doing humanitarian volunteer work in the borderlands, 0:01:53.560 --> 0:02:00.320 which we call doing water drops, for something like six years. 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:07.960 Got started with Border Angels and also did volunteer work 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:17.359 with Border Kindness highly recommend that organization, and more recently 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:23.359 have been doing water drops in a mountainous area between 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:29.600 San Diego and TJ with friends and we just recently 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:39.760 found a name for our group and it's Borderlands Relief Collective. Great. Yeah, 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.680 And I think maybe I think if people think of 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.760 San Diego, they think of like the zoo and maybe 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:50.200 SeaWorld and at the beach, you know that kind of shit. So, like, 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:52.760 can you explain what it's like. I've spent a lot 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:55.359 of time in the area where you guys do water drops. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:58.399 Can you explain what it's like and why it's such 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.240 a difficult area to par through for people who are 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:05.960 trying to move north. Well, yeah, San Diego. As you said, 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:10.239 people think of the beach, but actually I think someone 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:14.200 told me that San Diego County has some of the 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:19.400 most diverse kind of ecosystems of any county in the 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:24.840 so called USA. We have high mountains where it snows 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:29.519 when it gets cold out. We have low deserts where 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:34.480 it routinely exceeds one hundred degrees fahrenheit in the summertime, 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:38.120 I mean one hundred twenty degrees fahrenheit in the summertime. 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:47.160 And as far as the geography of migration, it really 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:52.760 goes back to you know, it's a direct consequence of 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:58.680 federal border policy. I think many people will be familiar 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:04.720 with the term prevention through deterrence, which is sometimes elaborated 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:11.280 as prevention of migration through environmental deterrence, and the whole 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:19.080 concept is going way back to Clinton administration. The areas 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:25.159 of the border near cities like San Diego were increasingly militarized, 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:30.920 with high border fans, intense patrol by armed officers, and 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:38.400 increasingly recently electronic surveillance, with the idea of relying on 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:43.520 the extremely harsh terrain of the deserts and mountains to 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:48.800 form a kind of a natural depense. But they quickly 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.440 found out within you know, basically the first year or 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:57.400 so of that federal policy, that numbers of people crossing 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:02.400 the border did not decrease. However, of our deaths skyrocketed. 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:08.400 And that's something we understood, you know, people in Washington, 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:13.360 DC understood many many years ago. But the policy persists. 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:17.000 So the bottom line is people who are crossing the 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:24.279 border from Mexico to the USA often resort to crossing 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:29.480 in the most remote and dangerous areas of the border. 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:32.560 So the area that we're going to be talking about, 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:39.839 this mountainous region between San Diego and Tijuana. Literally folks 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:44.960 are going up and over the tallest mountain in the area, 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:53.159 literally up and over the mountain, extremely arduous walk. When 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.840 we do these water drops, we're well rested. We hike 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:01.760 all day, and we come home exhausted, and we look 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:06.560 at our our Gaya apps and find that we've only 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.960 hiked a very small portion of the actual total journey. 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:15.640 And we're always humbled by just the resilience and determination 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:20.760 of people who do this crossing. Yeah, it's that's another 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.280 thing I think people don't realize is that the amount 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:28.080 of like physical just difficulty that people have to enjoy 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:30.919 coming here is immense. And of course the reason that 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.400 people are willing to take those risks because that it's 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:35.640 not like they come from a place of safety, right, 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.680 And it's not it's not it's not that they you know, 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.080 the reason they're willing to take risks is because it's 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:44.120 a risk. Being where they were is a risk. I 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:45.960 think a lot of people will maybe have become more 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:47.880 engaged with Board of policy during the Trump here is 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:53.120 certainly like the like legacy media narrative focused on the 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.840 boarder very briefly, like maybe it peaked around the mid 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:58.839 terms in twenty eighteen, I think, and then people have 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:03.320 lost a lot of interests insane. So for those of 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:05.560 us who live on the boarder, it's remarkable how little 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.640 has changed. I think maybe it's not particularly remarkable because 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.480 I don't think we're really effected it too, But like, 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:16.440 can you explain what if anything has changed since twenty 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.560 twenty one and how things have sort of remained the 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:25.600 same in many ways? Yeah, I think it's a really 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:30.240 good question, and it brings up a lot of the 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:36.080 political nature or kind of skewed identity based conversations that 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:41.200 exist in migration, and obviously there's a lot of rhetoric 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:47.240 that is quite hyperbolic around the so called morality of 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:53.080 people who are migrants in general, and then kind of 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:59.400 categorizing certain people as worthy or not worthy of entrance 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:04.640 in to the so called nation, and kind of further 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.000 and more, what does it mean for people to believe 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.240 any of those narratives and then support them at a 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:14.080 federal political level. And as you're saying, during Trump era, 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:18.280 there was a lot of conversation in response to very 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:24.560 very hateful rhetoric from Trump and administration targeted at certain people, 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:29.280 but not from a deep place of really understanding or 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.440 characterizing the conversation in general or speaking by the fact 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.920 that in San Diego or in California at large, more 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:40.400 than half of the farm workers who kind of create 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.679 this city that we are or the state that we are, 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.480 and support the very backbone of the fact that we're 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:50.920 all still having our hearts beat our migrants, and that 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:53.880 our economy at large, as well as just the fabric 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:58.920 of our nation is based on migrants and immigration. So 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.520 for us to can choose what that looks like is 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.000 not only missing the majority of the point, but is 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:06.360 using as a talking piece is really as a talking 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:11.439 piece for certain identities to feel vindicated to spend money 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:17.000 and support certain for profit corporations like for example, of course, Civic, 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.440 one of the largest prison corporations d prison corporations in 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.520 the in the country, got one point nine billion dollars 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.080 the previous year from the federal government. And therefore, like 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:32.520 you think about the connection between these enterprises and stories 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.760 about immigration are quite linked. So I don't have all 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.559 the statistics in front of me about how the sepific 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:44.480 number of crossings has changed or the population has changed, 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:48.439 but on the whole, nothing has really changed as far 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.440 as the need goes. So thinking about four years ago, 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.760 what were the specific crises that were occurring that we're 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.920 causing people to seek seek safety United States? Maybe some 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:03.240 specific decision of change and others have arisen. And as 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.520 more and more people are come to United States leaning 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:12.920 from climate related disasters as well as ongoing stability, it's 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:16.040 not as if the US has engaged in any real 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:20.679 project to support people to begin with or understand the 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:25.880 underlying causes. So from that standpoint, nothing meaningfully has happened 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:30.640 from either administration to really understand or create policices that 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:35.040 would support anyone seeking safety or from making decisions that 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:39.360 are quote unquote aligned with US best interests. It's never 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.840 been a part of the conversation. It's more to basically 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:47.599 capitalize off of people in their suffering. Whether will that 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:51.920 be to the you know, to be a storyline that 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:56.400 US is helping people or is a savior of others, 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:01.440 or is trying to crack down on armed bandits or 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:06.000 or criminals who are crossing crossing this borderland. I think 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.719 it is worth like that's the quote civic example is 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:10.960 really interesting because Biden made a big thing of like 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:15.600 talking about shutting down like quote unquote private prisons, but 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:19.920 it's still very much like funding the same things when 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:23.200 they're doth people who are citizens of this country or Yeah, 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.760 and for those of those who aren't fully versed in 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:31.440 kind of the basic relationship between private prisons and immigration UM. 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:35.880 There are is a relationship that between customs and Border 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:43.679 Protection UM and different prison corporations to basically UM. But 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:48.080 people who are apprehended who are not initially deported under 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:53.800 Title forty two in in the tension while their cases 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:59.440 are ongoing and investigated UM or asylum or a refugee status. 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:05.000 And so these prisons make a profit and can basically 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.760 demand a certain money amount of money from the government 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:13.640 per person who is within one of their facilities. And 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.160 there's also a minimum that they will continually get money 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:19.440 from the government regardless of whether the beds are filled, 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.400 but they have an incentive to keep beds filled. So 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:26.719 there is an economic relationship between these corporations and a 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.480 government to basically put more people in detention. So that's 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:34.360 a huge underpinning of this of this whole conversation is 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:36.640 who is getting money and how does it kind of 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.680 further the certain aims of corporations but also agencies that 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:45.800 basically get a larger amount of federal funding through apprehension 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:49.040 of people. Right, Yeah, like Biden has funded DHS more 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:52.079 than Trump did, and like DHS's budget does Department of 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:56.080 homedown security, of which Customs and Border Protection is a part. 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:59.200 A border patrol is a part of customs and Border protection. 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:04.400 It's pyramid of yeah, people putting people in prison, and 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.440 it's also worth like reinforcing I think for people that 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.760 like the people have done nothing wrong at the point 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.240 in which they are incarcerated, right, Like they have obeyed 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:17.280 all relevant laws and are yet in conditions which we've 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:21.640 decided not befitting prisoners in the United States, but are 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.880 okay for these people. Not that anyone should be incarcerated, 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:29.079 but yeah, there's still a two tier system. So can 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:32.560 you explain a little bit about your effort to do 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:35.120 mutual aid and to like do a little bit of 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.120 kindness on the border and make things a little bit 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:42.640 better out there for people who are coming north. Yeah, 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:49.480 what we do again just is in collaboration with other 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.560 organizations that have been around a long time, a lot 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:59.040 longer than we have a border Angels Order Kindness in California, 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:05.640 nor our Deaths in Arizona, many other organizations, and it really, 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.559 you know, boils down to we don't want people to 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:13.760 die on you know, the trails crossing through the borderlines, 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:22.080 and that actually informs where we drop Unfortunately, you know, 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:27.600 all of our recent new routes that we supply, they're 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:33.840 directly because we know that people have died in those 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:41.120 locations or required rescue. We work in very close relationship 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:46.440 with other volunteer organizations that focus on search and rescue 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:51.120 and search and recovery. Search and recovery meaning recovering human 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.200 remains of people who have died. So there's a number 0:14:54.560 --> 0:15:02.360 about standing organizations that operate in California, Arizona, Texas. These 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:08.280 include Eagles of the Desert, Armadillo's many other organizations. Most 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:13.400 of these are actually made up of volunteers who are 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:19.400 first generation immigrants, mostly from Mexico. And so when people 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:25.560 die or require rescue, we do find out for from 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:30.920 our our friends and comrades in these uh SAR organizations 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:36.400 and we build um water drop routes directly around that knowledge. 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.800 So yeah, it really boils down to, yeah, we don't 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:47.160 want more people to die making making this journey, and 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:49.800 so as far as what kind of supplies we leave, 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.080 it's what we think may make a difference. We leave 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:58.800 bottles of water, energy drinks like Electrolyte, Gatorade and so on, 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.280 hands of food with poptops, all kinds of cans of 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:08.280 fruit beans, you know, chili, whatever, you know, whatever we 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:12.400 think people may need. Of course, we tailor it based 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.200 on the time of year. In the mountains, in the 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:19.240 winter gets freezing cold, lots and lots of rain. So 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:24.600 we've been leaving waterproof ponchos, warm clothing and the summer. 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.520 Of course, it gets scorching hot in the desert. People 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:32.480 die of hyperthermia. They literally cooked to death. That's where 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:39.960 electrolytes come in. Handy sun hats, bandanas, baseball hats, first 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:45.520 aid gets. We leave kits full of medical supplies, and 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:51.240 more recently, you know, just observing the kind of used 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:58.480 items that we find on the trail. Kids stuff, diapers, pacifiers, 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:04.320 you know, we leave you know, tampons, um, you know 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:09.480 that kind of stuff, um, containers of infant formula. So 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.440 it's a it's a it's kind of an iterative process. 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:17.440 M just leaving what we think people need. And yeah, 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:19.399 that's that's kind of what we do. And just so 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.359 folks are super clear, this is all like an initiative 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:24.800 among you and your comrades, right, right, then you're not 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:29.160 supported by any like government entity. That's the government entity 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.359 is kind of doing quite the opposite of what you're doing. Yeah, correct, 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:37.240 We are all volunteers in the sense that nobody is paid. 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:42.159 We don't have any formal affiliations with any other NGOs, 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:47.160 much less governmental organizations. Right, So maybe people are wondering 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.560 they might have been familiar with the court case in 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:53.200 Arizona or they might not be like, if what you're 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:57.480 doing is considered to be like legal humanitarian aid or not, 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.600 are you comfortable talking about that? Yeah? So I think 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.040 that's that's definitely a gray area that we find ourselves 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:09.320 really occupying. Um And I think that's a bit of 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.520 this kind of propaganda machine, is what does it mean 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.840 to engage with somebody who is seeking safety and fleeing 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.720 for their lives. There's a certain place where that's how 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:25.320 died to be a wonderful thing if you're Catholic charities 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:29.160 and are providing beds um And for example, I wanted 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:33.240 to make that distinction between several kind of charity organizations 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.479 who do receive federal money to be engaged in this 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:42.640 conversation versus grassroots mutual aid networks and communities who are 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.800 doing this because it feels like it's part of their 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.560 communities mission, their families mission, or it means it's part 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:51.480 of them being true to themselves and true to what 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:55.840 feels just in this in this very confusing world. So 0:18:56.320 --> 0:19:01.600 what we're doing is very explicitly leaving humanitarian aids supplies 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:05.320 that are potentially life saving in areas where we know 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:10.680 people need them. We are not having any specific or 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.480 hands on or person to person engagement with with anybody, 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:19.560 so they're in in Arizona. Nomamrtes became part of a 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:25.719 conversation about providing critical medical support, and that was a 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.959 court case that really test the limits of what does 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.280 it mean to be in this gray area and what 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:36.160 was really important from the nuances in that conversation where 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.640 what constitutes aiding and a betting or so called aiding 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:44.720 and abetting of legal immigration, which is basically again a 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:49.080 very large gray area between are you are you enticing 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.040 people to cross? Are you being paid as a smuggler 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.520 to cross? Are you doing something which is encouraging people 0:19:55.560 --> 0:20:00.359 to cross? None of which was activity that was engaged 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:04.920 with the most MUDs or us, but in their case 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:09.600 specifically providing medical aid across the boundary, and they were 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:14.439 rated their their their camp and their impromptu field tents 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.520 where they were providing life saving medical support where it 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:22.679 was rated and the kind of the finer points of 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:27.600 that were that the outset being that the First Amendment 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:33.919 protects humans in their religious freedom to practice whatever it 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:37.720 be that furthers their religious beliefs in a faith and 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:41.640 a very large point of their work was their affiliation 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.200 and dedication to preserving human life, which, as we can 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:50.080 imagine for many folks listening to this or in general, 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:54.240 that is very core to their belief system. And so 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:59.359 there are very clear protections in the First Amendment of 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:04.080 preserve people's right to practice their religion. So that was 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.639 a case that that kind of established a lot of 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:10.359 what we're working under is these basic protections to be 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:15.160 humanitarian aid workers, um, following basic belief systems. What we're 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:21.879 doing specifically is leaving supplies. So leaving supplies, the most 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:26.240 egregious thing you can you can basically say about that 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:31.480 is that we're littering or that we're other abandoning property. 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:34.919 And so again no mass markets. And in this in 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:39.200 this larger conversation, UH was established in the court that 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:43.000 leaving humanitarian aid supplies that we're with the intent of 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.399 saving lives is not litter. So that was also a 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:48.600 very big point, which is saying, no, we are not 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:50.679 just kind of going walking down the street and throwing 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.560 out your bottle the back of your truck. This is 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:57.119 specifically with the intent of saving lives. And the third 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.439 place is that we are abandoning something in this in 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:05.480 this area that would be constituted abandoned property. And as 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:10.160 we'll speak about Meybere in the future, our supplies are 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:14.000 consumed quite rapidly, and there is a statute in this 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:16.560 in this state of it is it a ban of 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:18.320 property has to be it has to be left for 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:20.680 more than ten days to be considered a band of property. 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.520 So even if we are leaving things in these regions, 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:27.199 it is not considered a ban of property. It's been 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:30.920 less than ten days. So basically I guess just to 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:34.480 to say that nothing we're doing is illegal from any standpoint. 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:40.400 And also the case in Arizona kind of helped make 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:46.680 a distinguishing mixing distinctions between whether our activity is is 0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:50.359 also frowned upon in public land, which it is not, 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:53.159 because it is constituting humanitarian aid in a place that 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:55.400 it is desperately needed. Right. And I think if folks 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:57.840 go out to like I mean most people aren't going 0:22:57.840 --> 0:22:59.399 out to like Value of the Moon or what have you, 0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:01.320 but like, if you want to look for abandoned stuff, 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:04.480 that it's not hard to find, and it's not you 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:09.240 guys doing that like shooting barrels or whatever that like 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:22.720 some almost shooting the barrel last time I was let's 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:25.080 talk about how quickly those supplies are consumed, because I 0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:28.760 think again that will be like news to some people, right, 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:32.000 like you guys are out there every week and like 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:35.360 how much stuff are dropping and how quick news it go. Yeah, 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:38.439 to tell you the truth, we're still we're still finding 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:41.960 out ourselves because every time we think we know the answer, 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:46.399 we're surprised by how fast it's being consumed. The bottom 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:49.880 line is it's being consumed as fast as we can 0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:54.080 leave this supply. So Emma and I and many other 0:23:54.760 --> 0:24:00.159 of the members of our organization, Borderland's Relief Collective, we 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:04.000 also are active in border kindness and in the past 0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:08.159 with Border Angels, and so we're used to a certain 0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:12.000 rhythm of doing a water drop, circling back usually a 0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:15.639 month later, and we're happy if maybe half of the 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:19.959 supplies have been consumed, that's a good day. When we 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:24.480 started doing water drops in this mountainous region, first of all, 0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:28.040 we were just blown away by the evidence of heavy 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.520 foot travel. I mean, these are even though you'll never 0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:36.600 find a hiker, a recreational hiker on these trails, they 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:41.560 look like like established trails. They're worn in trails, and 0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:44.320 when we started doing these water drops, there's there's just 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:52.919 a river of discarded water bottles, clothing, food wrappers, and 0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:57.040 just things that we have never seen before, that amount 0:24:57.240 --> 0:25:02.160 of human activity, literally on the top of a mountain 0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:05.360 where you never would think why would someone cross over 0:25:05.400 --> 0:25:07.920 a top of a mountain to get from point eight 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:10.920 to point B. So, like I said, we're still learning 0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:15.879 what the proper interval is. Some of these locations that 0:25:15.920 --> 0:25:20.119 we drop, we come back a week later and they're 0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:25.399 pretty much one hundred percent consumed. So yeah, we really 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:28.760 it's become apparent. We've been having a lot of discussions 0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:33.119 that we're very eager in trying to expand our number 0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:37.440 of volunteers because the more we do this in this 0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:43.960 mountainous region, the more we learn how pressing the need is. 0:25:44.600 --> 0:25:49.720 So we're having a hard time just supplying essentially one 0:25:50.119 --> 0:25:53.040 path that goes up and over the mountain, and we 0:25:53.160 --> 0:25:56.959 know that this is just one of many paths that 0:25:57.000 --> 0:26:00.680 are used by people in this region. And so really 0:26:02.040 --> 0:26:06.320 we're finding one hundred percent consumption every week or two 0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:11.040 at most of our drop spots. Yeah, so if people 0:26:11.080 --> 0:26:12.720 did want to, we could just get that in here 0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:14.240 now if people did want to help you and they're 0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:16.840 in the region, it would they be able to deserve 0:26:16.880 --> 0:26:20.919 where they could reach out? Yeah? Sure, we just like 0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:23.920 I said, we just came up with our name after 0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:29.320 a fun communal decision making process, and we just a 0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:32.959 couple of days ago did our first post on social media. 0:26:33.359 --> 0:26:38.440 So if anybody's on Instagram, just search for Borderland's Relief 0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:42.880 Collective and click on you know, the email and send 0:26:42.960 --> 0:26:46.680 us a DM. Get in touch if you're anywhere near 0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:50.840 the San Diego we'd love to talk to you and 0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:55.120 definitely would like to expand the number of volunteers. So 0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:57.520 you spoke a little bit about like we spoke about 0:26:57.560 --> 0:27:01.280 this Arizona case right where people got rated. I know 0:27:01.359 --> 0:27:05.040 you guys have also had some less than stellar interactions 0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:10.960 with CBP Border Patrol specifically, and as I get really 0:27:11.000 --> 0:27:13.280 mad if I call it customs, the Border patrols customer 0:27:13.320 --> 0:27:19.040 Border Protection. So you guys had a thing, was it 0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:21.639 last month now in March? And do you want to 0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:23.919 explain a little bit about what what happened in the instant? 0:27:23.960 --> 0:27:28.120 First of all, Yeah, So as part of our so 0:27:28.359 --> 0:27:30.400 I think, as we already talked about, we go out 0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:35.240 every weekend. And that's again we're all busy lives. David 0:27:35.320 --> 0:27:39.560 is literally a surgeon, and um, we're basically trying to 0:27:39.560 --> 0:27:41.919 find a time that we can get people together to 0:27:41.960 --> 0:27:44.320 go out there. So we picked the weekends, and we 0:27:44.400 --> 0:27:47.159 have a changing number of people who are able to 0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:49.680 be out there with us. So as one of our 0:27:50.480 --> 0:27:56.480 normal water drop weekends, a route that starts basically at 0:27:56.480 --> 0:28:01.399 a road that has been along the ridge of Thaie Mountain. 0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:04.560 We start hiking down on the south side towards towards 0:28:04.640 --> 0:28:10.320 the towards the border. Um and I've established multiple routes 0:28:10.480 --> 0:28:15.720 along that path, and this one particularly is so slow going. 0:28:15.920 --> 0:28:18.359 Um you only go a couple of miles and it 0:28:18.400 --> 0:28:22.920 takes you most of your Saturday because of how steep 0:28:22.960 --> 0:28:26.639 it is, the how thick though the brush is, UM 0:28:26.720 --> 0:28:30.200 and also kind of as they was saying earlier, even 0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:33.719 in the middle of day day daytime, with hiking boots, 0:28:34.160 --> 0:28:37.600 it's really treacherous. And we've we've spent a lot of 0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:40.120 time making sure that we're safe in the process of 0:28:40.120 --> 0:28:44.640