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Speaker 1: Hello, podcast fans, it's just me today, It's just James,

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Speaker 1: and we're doing another episode about the border. I'm joined

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Speaker 1: today by Emmett and David from the Borderlands Relief Collective.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk a little bit about people doing

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Speaker 1: mutual aid on the border, the situation on the border

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Speaker 1: and for those of you who live a long way

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Speaker 1: away from it, and a sort of pretty shitty thing

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Speaker 1: that Border patrol did to some supplies which were left

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Speaker 1: out on the border earlier this month. So yeah, I

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Speaker 1: met and David. If you'd like to sort of introduce

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Speaker 1: yourself and expend a little bit about the roles you play,

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Speaker 1: that would be great either. I'm happy to be here.

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Speaker 1: My name's Emmett. I am putting my time between being

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Speaker 1: a geochemist descriptionsitition of oceanography, a PhD student, and trying

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Speaker 1: to reconcile what it means to be living in this

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Speaker 1: border lands and being a private community that is partially

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Speaker 1: criminalized depending on who you were, where you come from,

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Speaker 1: and also what it means for you to seek safety

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Speaker 1: and freedom in your life. So I work in several

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Speaker 1: organizing spaces trying to shut down different detention centers as

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Speaker 1: well as supporting folks just mckends meet in San Diego

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Speaker 1: and also supporting people keeping their lives and staying alive

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Speaker 1: in this extreme border borderlands that we live on. Hey,

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Speaker 1: my name's David. My job I work as a surgeon.

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Speaker 1: I've been living in San Diego for about ten years

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Speaker 1: and I've been doing humanitarian volunteer work in the borderlands,

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Speaker 1: which we call doing water drops, for something like six years.

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Speaker 1: Got started with Border Angels and also did volunteer work

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Speaker 1: with Border Kindness highly recommend that organization, and more recently

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Speaker 1: have been doing water drops in a mountainous area between

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Speaker 1: San Diego and TJ with friends and we just recently

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Speaker 1: found a name for our group and it's Borderlands Relief Collective. Great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think maybe I think if people think of

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Speaker 1: San Diego, they think of like the zoo and maybe

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Speaker 1: SeaWorld and at the beach, you know that kind of shit. So, like,

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Speaker 1: can you explain what it's like. I've spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time in the area where you guys do water drops.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain what it's like and why it's such

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Speaker 1: a difficult area to par through for people who are

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Speaker 1: trying to move north. Well, yeah, San Diego. As you said,

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Speaker 1: people think of the beach, but actually I think someone

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Speaker 1: told me that San Diego County has some of the

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Speaker 1: most diverse kind of ecosystems of any county in the

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Speaker 1: so called USA. We have high mountains where it snows

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Speaker 1: when it gets cold out. We have low deserts where

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Speaker 1: it routinely exceeds one hundred degrees fahrenheit in the summertime,

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Speaker 1: I mean one hundred twenty degrees fahrenheit in the summertime.

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Speaker 1: And as far as the geography of migration, it really

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Speaker 1: goes back to you know, it's a direct consequence of

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Speaker 1: federal border policy. I think many people will be familiar

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Speaker 1: with the term prevention through deterrence, which is sometimes elaborated

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Speaker 1: as prevention of migration through environmental deterrence, and the whole

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Speaker 1: concept is going way back to Clinton administration. The areas

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Speaker 1: of the border near cities like San Diego were increasingly militarized,

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Speaker 1: with high border fans, intense patrol by armed officers, and

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Speaker 1: increasingly recently electronic surveillance, with the idea of relying on

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Speaker 1: the extremely harsh terrain of the deserts and mountains to

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Speaker 1: form a kind of a natural depense. But they quickly

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Speaker 1: found out within you know, basically the first year or

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Speaker 1: so of that federal policy, that numbers of people crossing

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Speaker 1: the border did not decrease. However, of our deaths skyrocketed.

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Speaker 1: And that's something we understood, you know, people in Washington,

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Speaker 1: DC understood many many years ago. But the policy persists.

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Speaker 1: So the bottom line is people who are crossing the

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Speaker 1: border from Mexico to the USA often resort to crossing

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Speaker 1: in the most remote and dangerous areas of the border.

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Speaker 1: So the area that we're going to be talking about,

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Speaker 1: this mountainous region between San Diego and Tijuana. Literally folks

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Speaker 1: are going up and over the tallest mountain in the area,

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Speaker 1: literally up and over the mountain, extremely arduous walk. When

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Speaker 1: we do these water drops, we're well rested. We hike

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Speaker 1: all day, and we come home exhausted, and we look

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Speaker 1: at our our Gaya apps and find that we've only

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Speaker 1: hiked a very small portion of the actual total journey.

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Speaker 1: And we're always humbled by just the resilience and determination

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Speaker 1: of people who do this crossing. Yeah, it's that's another

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Speaker 1: thing I think people don't realize is that the amount

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Speaker 1: of like physical just difficulty that people have to enjoy

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Speaker 1: coming here is immense. And of course the reason that

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Speaker 1: people are willing to take those risks because that it's

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Speaker 1: not like they come from a place of safety, right,

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Speaker 1: And it's not it's not it's not that they you know,

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Speaker 1: the reason they're willing to take risks is because it's

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Speaker 1: a risk. Being where they were is a risk. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people will maybe have become more

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Speaker 1: engaged with Board of policy during the Trump here is

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Speaker 1: certainly like the like legacy media narrative focused on the

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Speaker 1: boarder very briefly, like maybe it peaked around the mid

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Speaker 1: terms in twenty eighteen, I think, and then people have

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Speaker 1: lost a lot of interests insane. So for those of

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Speaker 1: us who live on the boarder, it's remarkable how little

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Speaker 1: has changed. I think maybe it's not particularly remarkable because

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Speaker 1: I don't think we're really effected it too, But like,

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Speaker 1: can you explain what if anything has changed since twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one and how things have sort of remained the

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Speaker 1: same in many ways? Yeah, I think it's a really

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Speaker 1: good question, and it brings up a lot of the

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Speaker 1: political nature or kind of skewed identity based conversations that

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Speaker 1: exist in migration, and obviously there's a lot of rhetoric

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Speaker 1: that is quite hyperbolic around the so called morality of

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Speaker 1: people who are migrants in general, and then kind of

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Speaker 1: categorizing certain people as worthy or not worthy of entrance

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Speaker 1: in to the so called nation, and kind of further

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Speaker 1: and more, what does it mean for people to believe

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Speaker 1: any of those narratives and then support them at a

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Speaker 1: federal political level. And as you're saying, during Trump era,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of conversation in response to very

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Speaker 1: very hateful rhetoric from Trump and administration targeted at certain people,

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Speaker 1: but not from a deep place of really understanding or

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Speaker 1: characterizing the conversation in general or speaking by the fact

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Speaker 1: that in San Diego or in California at large, more

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Speaker 1: than half of the farm workers who kind of create

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Speaker 1: this city that we are or the state that we are,

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Speaker 1: and support the very backbone of the fact that we're

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Speaker 1: all still having our hearts beat our migrants, and that

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Speaker 1: our economy at large, as well as just the fabric

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Speaker 1: of our nation is based on migrants and immigration. So

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Speaker 1: for us to can choose what that looks like is

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Speaker 1: not only missing the majority of the point, but is

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Speaker 1: using as a talking piece is really as a talking

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Speaker 1: piece for certain identities to feel vindicated to spend money

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Speaker 1: and support certain for profit corporations like for example, of course, Civic,

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Speaker 1: one of the largest prison corporations d prison corporations in

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Speaker 1: the in the country, got one point nine billion dollars

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Speaker 1: the previous year from the federal government. And therefore, like

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Speaker 1: you think about the connection between these enterprises and stories

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Speaker 1: about immigration are quite linked. So I don't have all

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Speaker 1: the statistics in front of me about how the sepific

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Speaker 1: number of crossings has changed or the population has changed,

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Speaker 1: but on the whole, nothing has really changed as far

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Speaker 1: as the need goes. So thinking about four years ago,

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Speaker 1: what were the specific crises that were occurring that we're

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Speaker 1: causing people to seek seek safety United States? Maybe some

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Speaker 1: specific decision of change and others have arisen. And as

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Speaker 1: more and more people are come to United States leaning

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Speaker 1: from climate related disasters as well as ongoing stability, it's

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Speaker 1: not as if the US has engaged in any real

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Speaker 1: project to support people to begin with or understand the

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Speaker 1: underlying causes. So from that standpoint, nothing meaningfully has happened

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Speaker 1: from either administration to really understand or create policices that

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Speaker 1: would support anyone seeking safety or from making decisions that

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Speaker 1: are quote unquote aligned with US best interests. It's never

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Speaker 1: been a part of the conversation. It's more to basically

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Speaker 1: capitalize off of people in their suffering. Whether will that

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Speaker 1: be to the you know, to be a storyline that

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Speaker 1: US is helping people or is a savior of others,

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Speaker 1: or is trying to crack down on armed bandits or

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Speaker 1: or criminals who are crossing crossing this borderland. I think

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Speaker 1: it is worth like that's the quote civic example is

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Speaker 1: really interesting because Biden made a big thing of like

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Speaker 1: talking about shutting down like quote unquote private prisons, but

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Speaker 1: it's still very much like funding the same things when

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Speaker 1: they're doth people who are citizens of this country or Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and for those of those who aren't fully versed in

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Speaker 1: kind of the basic relationship between private prisons and immigration UM.

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Speaker 1: There are is a relationship that between customs and Border

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Speaker 1: Protection UM and different prison corporations to basically UM. But

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Speaker 1: people who are apprehended who are not initially deported under

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Speaker 1: Title forty two in in the tension while their cases

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Speaker 1: are ongoing and investigated UM or asylum or a refugee status.

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Speaker 1: And so these prisons make a profit and can basically

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Speaker 1: demand a certain money amount of money from the government

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Speaker 1: per person who is within one of their facilities. And

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Speaker 1: there's also a minimum that they will continually get money

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Speaker 1: from the government regardless of whether the beds are filled,

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Speaker 1: but they have an incentive to keep beds filled. So

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Speaker 1: there is an economic relationship between these corporations and a

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Speaker 1: government to basically put more people in detention. So that's

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Speaker 1: a huge underpinning of this of this whole conversation is

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Speaker 1: who is getting money and how does it kind of

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Speaker 1: further the certain aims of corporations but also agencies that

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Speaker 1: basically get a larger amount of federal funding through apprehension

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Speaker 1: of people. Right, Yeah, like Biden has funded DHS more

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Speaker 1: than Trump did, and like DHS's budget does Department of

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Speaker 1: homedown security, of which Customs and Border Protection is a part.

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Speaker 1: A border patrol is a part of customs and Border protection.

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Speaker 1: It's pyramid of yeah, people putting people in prison, and

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Speaker 1: it's also worth like reinforcing I think for people that

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Speaker 1: like the people have done nothing wrong at the point

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Speaker 1: in which they are incarcerated, right, Like they have obeyed

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Speaker 1: all relevant laws and are yet in conditions which we've

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Speaker 1: decided not befitting prisoners in the United States, but are

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Speaker 1: okay for these people. Not that anyone should be incarcerated,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, there's still a two tier system. So can

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Speaker 1: you explain a little bit about your effort to do

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Speaker 1: mutual aid and to like do a little bit of

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Speaker 1: kindness on the border and make things a little bit

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Speaker 1: better out there for people who are coming north. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what we do again just is in collaboration with other

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Speaker 1: organizations that have been around a long time, a lot

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Speaker 1: longer than we have a border Angels Order Kindness in California,

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Speaker 1: nor our Deaths in Arizona, many other organizations, and it really,

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Speaker 1: you know, boils down to we don't want people to

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Speaker 1: die on you know, the trails crossing through the borderlines,

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Speaker 1: and that actually informs where we drop Unfortunately, you know,

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Speaker 1: all of our recent new routes that we supply, they're

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Speaker 1: directly because we know that people have died in those

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Speaker 1: locations or required rescue. We work in very close relationship

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Speaker 1: with other volunteer organizations that focus on search and rescue

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Speaker 1: and search and recovery. Search and recovery meaning recovering human

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Speaker 1: remains of people who have died. So there's a number

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Speaker 1: about standing organizations that operate in California, Arizona, Texas. These

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Speaker 1: include Eagles of the Desert, Armadillo's many other organizations. Most

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Speaker 1: of these are actually made up of volunteers who are

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Speaker 1: first generation immigrants, mostly from Mexico. And so when people

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Speaker 1: die or require rescue, we do find out for from

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Speaker 1: our our friends and comrades in these uh SAR organizations

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Speaker 1: and we build um water drop routes directly around that knowledge.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it really boils down to, yeah, we don't

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Speaker 1: want more people to die making making this journey, and

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Speaker 1: so as far as what kind of supplies we leave,

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Speaker 1: it's what we think may make a difference. We leave

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Speaker 1: bottles of water, energy drinks like Electrolyte, Gatorade and so on,

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Speaker 1: hands of food with poptops, all kinds of cans of

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Speaker 1: fruit beans, you know, chili, whatever, you know, whatever we

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Speaker 1: think people may need. Of course, we tailor it based

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Speaker 1: on the time of year. In the mountains, in the

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Speaker 1: winter gets freezing cold, lots and lots of rain. So

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Speaker 1: we've been leaving waterproof ponchos, warm clothing and the summer.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it gets scorching hot in the desert. People

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Speaker 1: die of hyperthermia. They literally cooked to death. That's where

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Speaker 1: electrolytes come in. Handy sun hats, bandanas, baseball hats, first

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Speaker 1: aid gets. We leave kits full of medical supplies, and

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Speaker 1: more recently, you know, just observing the kind of used

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Speaker 1: items that we find on the trail. Kids stuff, diapers, pacifiers,

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Speaker 1: you know, we leave you know, tampons, um, you know

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, um, containers of infant formula. So

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's kind of an iterative process.

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Speaker 1: M just leaving what we think people need. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's kind of what we do. And just so

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Speaker 1: folks are super clear, this is all like an initiative

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Speaker 1: among you and your comrades, right, right, then you're not

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Speaker 1: supported by any like government entity. That's the government entity

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Speaker 1: is kind of doing quite the opposite of what you're doing. Yeah, correct,

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Speaker 1: We are all volunteers in the sense that nobody is paid.

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Speaker 1: We don't have any formal affiliations with any other NGOs,

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Speaker 1: much less governmental organizations. Right, So maybe people are wondering

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Speaker 1: they might have been familiar with the court case in

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Speaker 1: Arizona or they might not be like, if what you're

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Speaker 1: doing is considered to be like legal humanitarian aid or not,

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Speaker 1: are you comfortable talking about that? Yeah? So I think

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Speaker 1: that's that's definitely a gray area that we find ourselves

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Speaker 1: really occupying. Um And I think that's a bit of

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Speaker 1: this kind of propaganda machine, is what does it mean

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Speaker 1: to engage with somebody who is seeking safety and fleeing

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Speaker 1: for their lives. There's a certain place where that's how

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Speaker 1: died to be a wonderful thing if you're Catholic charities

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Speaker 1: and are providing beds um And for example, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to make that distinction between several kind of charity organizations

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Speaker 1: who do receive federal money to be engaged in this

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Speaker 1: conversation versus grassroots mutual aid networks and communities who are

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Speaker 1: doing this because it feels like it's part of their

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Speaker 1: communities mission, their families mission, or it means it's part

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Speaker 1: of them being true to themselves and true to what

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Speaker 1: feels just in this in this very confusing world. So

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Speaker 1: what we're doing is very explicitly leaving humanitarian aids supplies

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Speaker 1: that are potentially life saving in areas where we know

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Speaker 1: people need them. We are not having any specific or

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Speaker 1: hands on or person to person engagement with with anybody,

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Speaker 1: so they're in in Arizona. Nomamrtes became part of a

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Speaker 1: conversation about providing critical medical support, and that was a

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Speaker 1: court case that really test the limits of what does

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Speaker 1: it mean to be in this gray area and what

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Speaker 1: was really important from the nuances in that conversation where

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Speaker 1: what constitutes aiding and a betting or so called aiding

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Speaker 1: and abetting of legal immigration, which is basically again a

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Speaker 1: very large gray area between are you are you enticing

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Speaker 1: people to cross? Are you being paid as a smuggler

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Speaker 1: to cross? Are you doing something which is encouraging people

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Speaker 1: to cross? None of which was activity that was engaged

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Speaker 1: with the most MUDs or us, but in their case

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Speaker 1: specifically providing medical aid across the boundary, and they were

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Speaker 1: rated their their their camp and their impromptu field tents

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Speaker 1: where they were providing life saving medical support where it

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Speaker 1: was rated and the kind of the finer points of

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Speaker 1: that were that the outset being that the First Amendment

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Speaker 1: protects humans in their religious freedom to practice whatever it

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Speaker 1: be that furthers their religious beliefs in a faith and

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Speaker 1: a very large point of their work was their affiliation

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Speaker 1: and dedication to preserving human life, which, as we can

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Speaker 1: imagine for many folks listening to this or in general,

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Speaker 1: that is very core to their belief system. And so

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Speaker 1: there are very clear protections in the First Amendment of

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Speaker 1: preserve people's right to practice their religion. So that was

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Speaker 1: a case that that kind of established a lot of

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Speaker 1: what we're working under is these basic protections to be

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Speaker 1: humanitarian aid workers, um, following basic belief systems. What we're

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Speaker 1: doing specifically is leaving supplies. So leaving supplies, the most

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Speaker 1: egregious thing you can you can basically say about that

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Speaker 1: is that we're littering or that we're other abandoning property.

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Speaker 1: And so again no mass markets. And in this in

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Speaker 1: this larger conversation, UH was established in the court that

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Speaker 1: leaving humanitarian aid supplies that we're with the intent of

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Speaker 1: saving lives is not litter. So that was also a

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Speaker 1: very big point, which is saying, no, we are not

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Speaker 1: just kind of going walking down the street and throwing

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Speaker 1: out your bottle the back of your truck. This is

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Speaker 1: specifically with the intent of saving lives. And the third

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Speaker 1: place is that we are abandoning something in this in

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Speaker 1: this area that would be constituted abandoned property. And as

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Speaker 1: we'll speak about Meybere in the future, our supplies are

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Speaker 1: consumed quite rapidly, and there is a statute in this

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Speaker 1: in this state of it is it a ban of

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Speaker 1: property has to be it has to be left for

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Speaker 1: more than ten days to be considered a band of property.

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Speaker 1: So even if we are leaving things in these regions,

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Speaker 1: it is not considered a ban of property. It's been

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Speaker 1: less than ten days. So basically I guess just to

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Speaker 1: to say that nothing we're doing is illegal from any standpoint.

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Speaker 1: And also the case in Arizona kind of helped make

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Speaker 1: a distinguishing mixing distinctions between whether our activity is is

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Speaker 1: also frowned upon in public land, which it is not,

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Speaker 1: because it is constituting humanitarian aid in a place that

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Speaker 1: it is desperately needed. Right. And I think if folks

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Speaker 1: go out to like I mean most people aren't going

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Speaker 1: out to like Value of the Moon or what have you,

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Speaker 1: but like, if you want to look for abandoned stuff,

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Speaker 1: that it's not hard to find, and it's not you

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Speaker 1: guys doing that like shooting barrels or whatever that like

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Speaker 1: some almost shooting the barrel last time I was let's

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Speaker 1: talk about how quickly those supplies are consumed, because I

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Speaker 1: think again that will be like news to some people, right,

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Speaker 1: like you guys are out there every week and like

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Speaker 1: how much stuff are dropping and how quick news it go. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: to tell you the truth, we're still we're still finding

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Speaker 1: out ourselves because every time we think we know the answer,

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Speaker 1: we're surprised by how fast it's being consumed. The bottom

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Speaker 1: line is it's being consumed as fast as we can

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Speaker 1: leave this supply. So Emma and I and many other

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Speaker 1: of the members of our organization, Borderland's Relief Collective, we

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Speaker 1: also are active in border kindness and in the past

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Speaker 1: with Border Angels, and so we're used to a certain

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Speaker 1: rhythm of doing a water drop, circling back usually a

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Speaker 1: month later, and we're happy if maybe half of the

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Speaker 1: supplies have been consumed, that's a good day. When we

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Speaker 1: started doing water drops in this mountainous region, first of all,

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Speaker 1: we were just blown away by the evidence of heavy

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Speaker 1: foot travel. I mean, these are even though you'll never

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Speaker 1: find a hiker, a recreational hiker on these trails, they

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Speaker 1: look like like established trails. They're worn in trails, and

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Speaker 1: when we started doing these water drops, there's there's just

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Speaker 1: a river of discarded water bottles, clothing, food wrappers, and

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Speaker 1: just things that we have never seen before, that amount

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Speaker 1: of human activity, literally on the top of a mountain

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Speaker 1: where you never would think why would someone cross over

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Speaker 1: a top of a mountain to get from point eight

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Speaker 1: to point B. So, like I said, we're still learning

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Speaker 1: what the proper interval is. Some of these locations that

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Speaker 1: we drop, we come back a week later and they're

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Speaker 1: pretty much one hundred percent consumed. So yeah, we really

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Speaker 1: it's become apparent. We've been having a lot of discussions

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Speaker 1: that we're very eager in trying to expand our number

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Speaker 1: of volunteers because the more we do this in this

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Speaker 1: mountainous region, the more we learn how pressing the need is.

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Speaker 1: So we're having a hard time just supplying essentially one

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Speaker 1: path that goes up and over the mountain, and we

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Speaker 1: know that this is just one of many paths that

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Speaker 1: are used by people in this region. And so really

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Speaker 1: we're finding one hundred percent consumption every week or two

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Speaker 1: at most of our drop spots. Yeah, so if people

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Speaker 1: did want to, we could just get that in here

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Speaker 1: now if people did want to help you and they're

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Speaker 1: in the region, it would they be able to deserve

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Speaker 1: where they could reach out? Yeah? Sure, we just like

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Speaker 1: I said, we just came up with our name after

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Speaker 1: a fun communal decision making process, and we just a

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Speaker 1: couple of days ago did our first post on social media.

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Speaker 1: So if anybody's on Instagram, just search for Borderland's Relief

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Speaker 1: Collective and click on you know, the email and send

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Speaker 1: us a DM. Get in touch if you're anywhere near

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Speaker 1: the San Diego we'd love to talk to you and

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Speaker 1: definitely would like to expand the number of volunteers. So

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Speaker 1: you spoke a little bit about like we spoke about

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Speaker 1: this Arizona case right where people got rated. I know

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Speaker 1: you guys have also had some less than stellar interactions

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Speaker 1: with CBP Border Patrol specifically, and as I get really

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Speaker 1: mad if I call it customs, the Border patrols customer

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Speaker 1: Border Protection. So you guys had a thing, was it

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Speaker 1: last month now in March? And do you want to

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Speaker 1: explain a little bit about what what happened in the instant?

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Speaker 1: First of all, Yeah, So as part of our so

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Speaker 1: I think, as we already talked about, we go out

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Speaker 1: every weekend. And that's again we're all busy lives. David

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Speaker 1: is literally a surgeon, and um, we're basically trying to

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Speaker 1: find a time that we can get people together to

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Speaker 1: go out there. So we picked the weekends, and we

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Speaker 1: have a changing number of people who are able to

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Speaker 1: be out there with us. So as one of our

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Speaker 1: normal water drop weekends, a route that starts basically at

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Speaker 1: a road that has been along the ridge of Thaie Mountain.

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Speaker 1: We start hiking down on the south side towards towards

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Speaker 1: the towards the border. Um and I've established multiple routes

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Speaker 1: along that path, and this one particularly is so slow going.

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Speaker 1: Um you only go a couple of miles and it

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Speaker 1: takes you most of your Saturday because of how steep

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Speaker 1: it is, the how thick though the brush is, UM

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Speaker 1: and also kind of as they was saying earlier, even

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Speaker 1: in the middle of day day daytime, with hiking boots,

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Speaker 1: it's really treacherous. And we've we've spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time making sure that we're safe in the process of

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Speaker 1: of going there ourselves. So as we we left our

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00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: first drop and then a second and went down to

403
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Speaker 1: our final drop and turned back and started going back

404
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Speaker 1: up the mountain and we came to our second drop site,

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Speaker 1: and as we arrived, we found um something that was

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Speaker 1: kind of really hard to process at first for us,

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Speaker 1: which was that every single item that we had purposefully

408
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Speaker 1: put inside of a crate and we had counted and

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00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,239
Speaker 1: we had a left as we do, was scattered and

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Speaker 1: littered across the ground. We had left more than twenty

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Speaker 1: liters of water, and every single bottle of water was

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Speaker 1: opened and dumped out and thrown indiscriminately around the site.

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Speaker 1: We had left again something like twenty hands of food beans, tuna,

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Speaker 1: condensed milk, fruit, and every single can had been opened

415
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Speaker 1: and had been its content thrown around the area. We

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00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: had left bags of socks and hats, and those were

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00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: covered in beans and fruit and again thrown into bushes

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00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: like not be used. We had handwarmers because it's very

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Speaker 1: cold and handwarmers are essential to kind of keep mobility,

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Speaker 1: and every single one was diligently opened, as if someone

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Speaker 1: had really enjoyed taking time opening it and thrusting into

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Speaker 1: the dirt. And that was something that was like so

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Speaker 1: painful and just confusing, very demoralizing, as you can imagine

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Speaker 1: after just hiking that far, but more so it's felt

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Speaker 1: so deliberate and hurtful, and initially we're, of course wondering

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Speaker 1: what had happened. We've done this for several years, many years,

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Speaker 1: and never had we seen something like this before. And

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Speaker 1: it became very apparent that someone had deliberately destroyed our

429
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: our crate, even the create itself. This milk carton was

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Speaker 1: smashed in half. The bottom of it was torn out,

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00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: and that is something that's very hard to achieve. Milk

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Speaker 1: cartons are not very light, thin plastic. This was someone

433
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: had had actively put a lot of force into smashing

434
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: a milk cart so that nothing was left behind we

435
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: on the way down. One thing that I didn't say

436
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: a second ago was that we had seen an agent

437
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: on the trail, which was unique for us because normally

438
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: they're just in their cars with binoculars looking from the road.

439
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: So we had seen someone near the trail but lost

440
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: track of them earlier, and we had kind of put

441
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: it out of our minds. So after this happened, we

442
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: had kind of put two and two together and were

443
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: wondering if this agent had followed us down the trail

444
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: to this site. And then while we had left stayed

445
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: behind and destroyed the goods. It seemed like the beans

446
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: were still drying and the fruit was still drying in

447
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: the sunlight, so it hadn't have been too too far

448
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: from the time that we had dropped initially. UM. And

449
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: this is at a moment that there was five of

450
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: us and trying to figure out what it meant for

451
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: us to deal with this. Several two of us, including

452
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: myself UM, raced ahead to try to interact with whoever

453
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,719
Speaker 1: has up the trail, knowing that they couldn't have been

454
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: too far away, not with any specific plan other than

455
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: just ask them what what did they do and why

456
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: did they do that? Just in the sense of outrage

457
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: that this sense of just like moral corruption that someone

458
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: would destroy this in a time that the CBP as

459
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: well as we know that people are losing our lives

460
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: because of lack of access to these very goods that

461
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: were destroyed. Yeah, so we raced race back as fast

462
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: as we could. It was about a forty five minute

463
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: hike back up, and we were really breathless and almost

464
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: at the kind of point of feeling sick to our

465
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: stomach because we were both outraged and also hikes faster

466
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: than we should have. Um, And just as we've gotten

467
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: back to our car, is kind of giving up hope

468
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: that we'd interact with them. We saw two agents in

469
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: their cars kind of pull away, and we flagged them

470
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: down and got in front of them and kind of

471
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: motion for them to come back so we could speak

472
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: to them. And I'm not saying we're the most savvy people,

473
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: but we basically ramped them and said, did you destroy

474
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: these are our supplies, to which they acknowledged that they did.

475
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: And only afterwards were we able to get our wits

476
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: together to start recording them. And as both here in

477
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: the audio, they acknowledged the fact that they knew where

478
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: our site was, and they acknowledge the fact that they

479
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: regularly destroy goods. And for us, the entire interaction was

480
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: just so sickening, um first of it. After a while

481
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: there was five of them with their guns and there

482
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: they're large guns out. As well as their basic intention

483
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: to use intimidation, their sheer numbers, as well as this

484
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: kind of reverse authority they have as the sole kind

485
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: of agents in charge of this public land, this is

486
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: wilderness and BLM land, which they have no authority over us,

487
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: yet use this this sense of just power and ability

488
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: to cause harm, to minimize anybody else being able to

489
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: advocate for themselves. So we tried to stop them from

490
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: from doing that, and it kept asking them did you

491
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: destroy our water? And why did you do that? And

492
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: is that within your job description? Because there was something

493
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: very clear to them to us that they didn't even

494
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: know what their legality was. They kept trying to deflect

495
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: it the conversations saying, oh, migrants are leaving trash all

496
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 1: the time, and referring to people as illegal aliens with

497
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: this kind of larger rhetoric, as saying that like they're

498
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: they're trashing the mountain side, like it's it's their fault.

499
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: And as we repeatedly asked them, did you destroy our water,

500
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: and they repeatedly said, well have you seen have you

501
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: seen what they do and then kind of also saying well, yeah,

502
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: we try to clean things up, we try to pick

503
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: them up, but but but that specific site was too far,

504
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: so we just left it. We just destroyed it and

505
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 1: left it. Which as on the on the piggybacking on

506
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: their conversation about this trash and that we're littering, and

507
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: they're accusing us of aiding and abetting illegal immigration. They

508
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: basically have nothing left to say about what their actions

509
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 1: meant and without within their purview their mandate of their jobs.

510
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: And it was an act you could tell they were

511
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with because they were not within their job description.

512
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: And we asked for their supervisor. They said they're going

513
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: on the phone supervisor. Upriser never materialized, and we can

514
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: only assume that they had a conversation with somebody in

515
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: a superior saying back down, what you're doing is is

516
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: not correct and don't engage further. And since then we've

517
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 1: had a conversation with their superiors and with with CVP

518
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: offices to the effect of saying that this was not

519
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: within their job description and this they did not condone

520
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: this act of it, so um kind of looking into

521
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: that further. They were very much acting as individuals, but

522
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: individuals within a culture of abuse and within a culture

523
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: of of sabotaging humans access to life saving supplies. And

524
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 1: that was nothing new to them, that they did nothing.

525
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: They had never encountered somebody trying to oppose them for

526
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: doing that. It is back to let me ask you,

527
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: let me ask you, SPO that was that yours? Was

528
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: that yours? Too, is your property exactly and you and

529
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: you slash I'm wondering why you did that property? You

530
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: did not we were going on a fight in your

531
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: duck description to slash water and open cans and damn

532
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: this area, tobend the property and it's a long hig

533
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: Would I do that get you? Oh? I'm like curious.

534
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: I'm just so paid for you to do. You have

535
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: and patrols in twenty five and look for property property

536
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: illegal and what do you do with it? What you

537
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: do with it? We destroy, We try to clean it up.

538
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: That's cleaning it up. That's one of the things that

539
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: was not cleaning it up or try to clean it up.

540
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: That was too far for us. So we decided to

541
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: just trash the whole area. Like when when they funded

542
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: and equipped and transported and armed by the state, and

543
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: like's that's not the same as in individuals, just because

544
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: we've seen that in Arizona, right, like people who are

545
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: militias or what have you going out and sabotaging life

546
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: saving supplies as well. But it's still a little different

547
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: when you know, we have to pay taxes for them

548
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: to go destroy water cashes. And these are people who

549
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: regularly as we've seen on multiple occasions use helicopters to

550
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: try to blush people out of under a tree that

551
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: they fly within thirty feet of the ground and use

552
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: the force of the rotors to force people out and

553
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 1: upper hillside to waiting cars. So their use of money

554
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 1: and their use of force is definitely central to the tactics. Yeah, yeah,

555
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: or he's helicopters to fied two guests into Mexico and

556
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: it did a few years ago. But yeah, it's certainly,

557
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: and that intimidation is like if I think people again

558
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: who don't live here might not be familiar with it.

559
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: Like I've been out in down by the border with

560
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: KUMIAI people doing religious ceremony and had bought at guys

561
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: dressed like you know, like navy seals hanging out with

562
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,760
Speaker 1: are fifteens and plate carriers. Well, people like burn stage

563
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: and pray. It's yeah, I mean the militarization. If you

564
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 1: somehow can't conceive the care of people dying in the desert,

565
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: the militarization of the border still affects everyone here and

566
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: it makes our lives left safe. There's a crime crime

567
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: thinks logan that I always like to like use in

568
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: these things, which is the border doesn't protect you, it

569
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: controls you, which I think it's kind of apt for this.

570
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: So now that they've trashed your supplies, right and you

571
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: found out they weren't supposed to, I'm interested like, how

572
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: going forward, does that mean that you can't use that

573
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,439
Speaker 1: you can't terrupt stuff there anymore because you're worried about

574
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: it happening again, or because you're worried about them hanging

575
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: out there to intersect people who are using your like

576
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: supply cash. On the contrary, we've learned from the examples

577
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,919
Speaker 1: of other people who have been doing this work. Emma

578
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: had already mentioned no mas mertes, no more debts in Arizona,

579
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: Doctor Scott Warren. We've learned so much from their example

580
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: where you know, they were hauled into federal court and

581
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: one and so we've learned from from their examples of

582
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: how to how to do this as well as within

583
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 1: here in California. The history of Border Angels so back

584
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: a few years ago, Border Patrol was slashing gallons of

585
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: water in the deserts of eastern San Diego County as

586
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: well as Imperial County. On one particular day, the Border

587
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: Angels volunteers found about fifty gallons of water slashed and

588
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: the most violent way, and they knew it was Border Patrol.

589
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: And so the way Border Angels responded was number One,

590
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: to change their actics to start dropping supplies deeper in

591
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: the backcountry where the Border Patrol agents. Uh you know,

592
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 1: it's rare to find a BP agent that's motivated enough

593
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: to really hike hike for too far away from their

594
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: air conditioned vehicles in the summertime. So number one, they

595
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: were going farther away from the roads and highways to

596
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: the actual routes that people are walking. Number Two, they

597
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: punched back hard, h in in public using social media

598
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: back then it was Facebook. You know this is going

599
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: to be you know, right when Instagram was getting popular,

600
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 1: but just you know, getting the word out. And Border

601
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 1: Angels is an organization that's been around for decades. They

602
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: have a big following. The words spread and just like

603
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: many bullies, um, you know, they kind of back down

604
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: if you get in their face, uh sometimes so, so

605
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: that was our experience with this practice of Border Patrol

606
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: slashing gallons in the desert with Border Angels. So when

607
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 1: this um this crime occurred on March eighteenth in the mountains.

608
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: We knew we could not back down, so we went

609
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: back a few days later. That's when, as Emmett mentioned,

610
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: we witnessed Border patrol helicopter for about an hour flying about.

611
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 1: You know, it seemed like, you know, ten fifteen feet

612
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: off the ground, uh, really really low, using the the

613
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: rotor wash to flush a flush human beings out of

614
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: the brush as if they were hunting animals. Um. And

615
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: then we were back, you know, the next seven days later,

616
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: after they destroyed the supplies, we went back with a

617
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: good group number one to clean up this, uh, this

618
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: shameful mess these these two Border patrol goons left. We

619
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: cleaned up all of all of that stuff, and we

620
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: probably what three times the amount of original supplies and

621
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: on our milk rates. We actually left laminated signs that

622
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: addressed one by one all of the accusations that these

623
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: Border Patrol agents tried to make against us. So the

624
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: signs say, do not destroy, do not remove. This is

625
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: not garbage, We are not littering, and this is not

626
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: abandoned property. This is these are humanitarian aid supplies protected

627
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: by federal case law, the nineteen ninety four Protection of

628
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: Religious Freedom Act, and so on and so forth, So

629
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 1: we put those signs just prominently on the milk rates,

630
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: you know, just to send a message that no, we're

631
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: not going to back down. We are going to leave supplies. Uh.

632
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 1: It is within our rights and it is in support

633
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: of human rights to do this. So of course we

634
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: have to be strategic about this. I mean there is

635
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: the danger, you know, if we're always going back to

636
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: the same place. You know, we're kind of you know,

637
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: blowing up the spot as it were. You know, we're

638
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: bringing heat to a route that's that's needed by people

639
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: making a crossing, and so we are we are mindful

640
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: of that, you know, we don't we try to go

641
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: to different places on different weekends and not trying to

642
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: bring too much attention to these paths. Yeah, yeah, that

643
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. And I wonder that like

644
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: if people are I was just thinking for people to

645
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: visualize the area, if there are a place I could

646
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: look up on like Google ass, so they could see

647
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 1: like where this kind of stuff is happening. If you comfortable,

648
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 1: you don't have to give like a exact location obviously.

649
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: But yeah, actually, I mean, speaking of Google Earth, you

650
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: mentioned a valley of the moon. I mean Google Earth

651
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,800
Speaker 1: is impressive enough. Anybody can just use Google Earth and

652
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: zoom in all the way and just follow along the

653
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: border and you'll find thousands of footpaths. So yeah, it

654
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: doesn't take yeah, like a much detective work to actually

655
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: visually see these footpaths. But yeah, it's real steep terrain.

656
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: As Emmett mentioned, the last couple times we've gone back

657
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 1: to this spot where the two agents destroyed the supplies,

658
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 1: Emmett has actually brought a mountain climbing rope just to

659
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: make certain sections easier where we're kind of repelling down

660
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: this dry waterfalls. So really really steep, very loose trails,

661
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: very easy to break an ankle, and it just in

662
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: that context, it really it really hits you. We see

663
00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: so many shoes and boots along the path and just

664
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: have to kind of just pause and think, well, this

665
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,760
Speaker 1: person lost their shoe, if the if they're the soul

666
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: of their boot melted off, and they're hours away from

667
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: the nearest road, what does it mean? How did they

668
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: complete the journey? Did they complete their journey? Um, So yeah,

669
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: a little bit hard to describe, but I guess any yeah,

670
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: anybody who's I guess kind of familiar with with the

671
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: southern California, steep, steep mountains, loose terrain, kind of get

672
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,919
Speaker 1: the picture. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they kind of got value

673
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: the main it's plenty of pictures of the very intimidating

674
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: board offense that they have, like three foot and rusty.

675
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: Is there anything else that you guys wanted to address

676
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: that you feel like maybe people don't the people should

677
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 1: know about the board that they don't about the work

678
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: you do that maybe is misunderstood. Yeah, I guess I

679
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: want to maybe bring up some of what it I

680
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:20,959
Speaker 1: think is hard to convey to people who aren't there

681
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: and I aren't m connected to a community who is

682
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 1: suffering because of this, or who aren't maybe thinking along

683
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: the lines of, um, what it means to be a

684
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 1: human in this space and actually be risking your life

685
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:48,240
Speaker 1: and coming up against helicopters and a federally backed militia

686
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 1: who is actively seeking to harm you. None of us

687
00:47:54,880 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: in our group are claiming any anything more than just witnessing, um,

688
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: what it means to be out there. But I guess

689
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: what's been true for me and in kind of my

690
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: conversations with my community as over the last couple of years,

691
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: is trying to share this there is there is so

692
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: much pain that is being inflicted upon this landscape, and

693
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: there is so much harm that is actively supported by

694
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: our nation while people are in some of the most

695
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: intimate and painful moments of their lives. Leaving your home,

696
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: whether it be in another continent where you need to

697
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 1: take a flight over to make this crossing, or whether

698
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: it be piking through Central America starting in South America

699
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 1: for months before reaching this moment, or leaving your your

700
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 1: your family, in your in your community closer to the

701
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 1: to the to the border. These are moments that anyone

702
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: who is alive could feel the pain of and the

703
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: misery of having to abandon all that you know, UM

704
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 1: and put yourself at the mercy of the desert and

705
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: cbps overly aggressive and and and and harmful tactics. UM.

706
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: So beyond all of the cases and the politics, I

707
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: just I, oftentimes, as we're walking, just try to put

708
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: myself in the position of someone who is who is

709
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: making these decisions. And as Dave was saying, we're coming

710
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: across people's clothing, food, underwear, places they've slept, and the

711
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 1: amount of UM, the poignancy of human desire to be safe,

712
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: to to come to a place where they feel like

713
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:57,919
Speaker 1: their lives can be um protected or that that choice

714
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: is worthwhile. Is something that so lost in the numbers,

715
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: in the amount of people who die or what happens

716
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: after it, And so for us, I think making it

717
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 1: not about your political beliefs or the asylum process, but

718
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: just the actual choices people are are having to make

719
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: very human decisions. That is something that is kind of

720
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: haunts us. And the feeling that all we can do

721
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: is leave water in a place that it might make

722
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: the difference between someone in that position surviving or not.

723
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: And furthermore, just living in a community where you know,

724
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,240
Speaker 1: from the top of the mountain we can see downtown

725
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:46,479
Speaker 1: San Diego and all of the luxury of this military town,

726
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: all of the universities, and all of this opportunity that

727
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 1: we enjoy, and just a couple of miles away, the

728
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: lack of access to just water, feeling how similar humans

729
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 1: are to each other in our basic needs and how

730
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: that's being taken from people is really is really harmful.

731
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,879
Speaker 1: And particularly as you were saying, these are areas held

732
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: sacred by the Kumiai people and have been have been

733
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: places of migration for at least ten thousand years. These

734
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: are places that were difficult to travel and that people

735
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: did for similar reasons to survive, to be safe. And

736
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: there is a legacy of oyas of of clay pots

737
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: buried in the sand for travelers that has been ongoing

738
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: for thousands of years. And for our current administration and

739
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: government to create this wall in this place of so

740
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 1: much pain is just testament to just the insanity of

741
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 1: our desire to protect border against something else, protecting the

742
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: borders against something that we feel is harmful to us. Meanwhile,

743
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: this migration is fundamentally how we survive and how we

744
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: respond to these moments of change in humanity. And criminalizing

745
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: that and cluding hearts of that is just by back.

746
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: I'll let you collect your thoughts and you can come

747
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: back and make that statement, because I think you do

748
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: it very eloquently. But I want to jump on there

749
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,439
Speaker 1: and just kind of echo and elaborate on what you said. Yeah,

750
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 1: we find lots and lots of physical items, but we

751
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: also meet people on the trails, and that's a new thing.

752
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 1: You know, I've been doing these water drops for some

753
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: time now. But you know, when you say what has

754
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: changed under Biden, not much there's more people crossing the

755
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: border than ever, there are more people dying than ever.

756
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 1: As far as as a volunteer who spends most weekends

757
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: out in the borderlines, the only thing I notice is

758
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: they stopped building Trump's thirty foot high fence and they

759
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: started pouring all that money into electronic surveillance, where every

760
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: single we see more towers popping up all along the

761
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: border with all kinds of very very fancy, military grade

762
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 1: surveillance equipment, and as well as aerial surveillance, lots of airplanes, helicopters.

763
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,280
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they're using drones, but we certainly

764
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: there's a lot of aerial surveillance. But what we see

765
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 1: as far as the human dimension is In the old days,

766
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: you know, we see footprints, We see shoe covers, you know,

767
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 1: which people wear on their feet to hide their footprints

768
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 1: from border patrol. We see the empty water bottles and

769
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: discarded clothing. But now we're encountering people pretty much every

770
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 1: time we do a water drop because the number of

771
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:51,760
Speaker 1: people crossing is so high. People are crossing in the daytime,

772
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: whereas in the past usually they would cross at night.

773
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 1: So why don't you say emmet like pretty much. It's

774
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 1: pretty much every time we go out, at least one

775
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 1: of our volunteers, if not the whole group sees or

776
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 1: even interacts with a migrant on the paths. And you know,

777
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: and of course we respect, we respect their autonomy, their privacy.

778
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: We don't engage with them if they don't want to

779
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 1: engage with us. But the thing that I'll never forget

780
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: is about a month ago, we were out in this

781
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: exact same area, supplying the same path, and it was

782
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: a rainy day, cold, we were wearing our gortex insulated clothing.

783
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: We'd done a water drop. While we were doing the

784
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: water drop, we can see on the next mountain peak,

785
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 1: Border Patrol helicopter landing to pick up somebody who required rescue.

786
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,760
Speaker 1: And this is a case that we had been getting

787
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,720
Speaker 1: updates all night with Armadillos, one of the search groups.

788
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: And thankfully this this person was found alive and Border

789
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: Patrol was so called rescuing him another word for arresting him.

790
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: And after we witnessed that, we hiked back to our

791
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: vehicles and just as we were getting to the trailhead

792
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 1: the exact same location where on March eighteenth, Emmet and

793
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: other volunteers had this interaction with the two border patrol

794
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: agents who destroyed the humanitarian aid supplies the exact same

795
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 1: parking spot. We we pop out and start walking toward

796
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 1: our vehicles, and it starts snowing, and two individuals come

797
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 1: out of the mist and you know, approach us and

798
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: start talking to us in Spanish and talking to these

799
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:57,720
Speaker 1: two people, these two men, one one young, one middle aged.

800
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 1: In the course of the conversation and you know, sorry,

801
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 1: I kind of choke up when I talk about this stuff.

802
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 1: Yeah it's okay, but yeah, so this is uh, the

803
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: younger of the two, I was sixteen years old and

804
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 1: the older dude was his father. We encountered them as

805
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 1: it was snowing, so of course, first thing we did

806
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 1: is got them in our vehicles. One of our volunteers,

807
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 1: Avid Hiker, had his backpacking stove with him and cooked

808
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: up some tea and some um, you know, gave them

809
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: food and and you know, let them warm up. We

810
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: gave them literally the you know, gortex winter coat software

811
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: backs to warm up. And once the you know, the

812
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:49,280
Speaker 1: dad was shivering violently, really really showing signs of clinical

813
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 1: hypothermia and talking to the younger man who was in

814
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 1: better physical shape. He was explaining that the two of

815
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: them were hiking through the mountain because his mother was

816
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 1: already living in the USA. They were trying to reunite

817
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 1: with her, and they had been in this mountainous region

818
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: for the past two days. And looking at them, they're

819
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: wearing hoodies, you know, like uh, you know, sweatshirts, sweatpants

820
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 1: and sneakers in this and anybody who lives down here

821
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: in southern California, you know, we've had a very unusual winter,

822
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: lots and lots of rain. So it had been raining

823
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: heavily over the past two days and nighttime temperatures in

824
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: the thirties. And these two men had been out there

825
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 1: for two days soaked to the bone. And that's why

826
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: they approached us, because they were in trouble and they

827
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: were asking for help. So after they warmed up, we

828
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: discussed the options. Of course, you know, we respect their autonomy. Um,

829
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 1: you know, they have the option to try to continue

830
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: going on their way with with supplies or if they

831
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: felt it was unsafe to do so, we were ready

832
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: to help them. The heartbreaking thing is, you know, they

833
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 1: did ask us could we let them ride in our

834
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: vehicles off the Mountain, and we had to explain that,

835
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, we were we were pretty much guaranteed to

836
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 1: encounter border patrol agents on that road, and that really

837
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: it's not something that we could do because you know

838
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 1: that that that you know, we would we could be

839
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: arrested and charged, you know, for federal felony crimes. But

840
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: we said, look, you know, if you really feel you

841
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: can't continue, we will help you contact you know, call

842
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,479
Speaker 1: nine one one. But we explained that's that's one hundred

843
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 1: percent going to result in border patrol coming. Because as

844
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: folks may know, you know, you know, in the USA

845
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: along the border, you know, emergency medical response, search and

846
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 1: rescue is unfortunately considered in the domain of law enforcement.

847
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: So if you are a US citizen, or if you

848
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 1: are someone from another country that happened to come here

849
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 1: and have a visa or just be considered the good

850
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 1: type of foreigner, you know, you're gonna have a very

851
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:33,439
Speaker 1: impressive response with sheriff's Sheriff's Department, search and rescue volunteer organizations.

852
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: If there's any hint that you may be a so

853
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: called undocumented person, it immediately gets sent to border patrol

854
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: and you have you know, boor star respond the Border

855
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 1: Patrol search and rescue group, which is a far cry

856
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: from the civilian search and rescue folks. So we explain

857
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 1: to them, if we call nine one one, you're you're

858
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: gonna be apprehended, You're going to be arrested by Border patrol.

859
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 1: And after thinking about it and discussing, they said, yeah,

860
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: we you know, we cannot continue were where. You know,

861
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 1: this is too dangerous. So we did call nine one one,

862
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 1: and Border Patrol did come and risk to them and

863
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: cuff them and uh yeah, yeah, did arrest them, and

864
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: uh yeah, that's not the only time that too often

865
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: we have witnessed human beings being arrested by border patrol. Yeah,

866
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing that. I think I think it's

867
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 1: really important to give like put like faces and names

868
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: to these things rather than they could. Border patrol will

869
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: constantly talk about the million whatever encounters, right, they like

870
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 1: to fucking inflict the numbers. It's often the same people,

871
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: but um, it's each one of those who's a tragedy.

872
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: Right every time someone has to make a choice between

873
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 1: risking their life in one place or risking their life

874
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: coming to another place just so their kids can have

875
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: a crack at growing up safely, or so they can

876
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: be safe, so they can experience like one tenth of

877
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 1: the things that we take for granted every day. I

878
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 1: think that's an incredible human tragedy. And yeah, they happen

879
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 1: every single day, every hour of every day at our

880
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 1: border because of the things that our government does there.

881
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's important to feel that stuff, because I

882
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 1: think that's it should provoke in all of us a

883
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 1: very strong reaction. It's pretty messed up that there's almost

884
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 1: universal bipartisan agreement that it's fine and okay by people

885
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: who have never been here and don't understand. One other

886
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: thing I want to add, and you may have other things.

887
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: One thing I wanted to really center is something we've

888
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: referenced several times. Kumyer You know this is this is

889
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 1: Kumyer Land. These are the indigenous people who have lived

890
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: here since the beginning of time time. Um, the archaeological

891
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 1: record goes back ten thousand years, but we know people

892
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:10,919
Speaker 1: have been here since the beginning of human hit time.

893
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 1: Really and um, look at the map um this so

894
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 1: called border cuts in half traditional Kuma territory. Uh. When

895
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: we do these water drops out in the desert or

896
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 1: in the mountains. You know, these these paths that that

897
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: people are using to migrate are often or in many

898
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: many cases traditional Kumya paths, and we see evidence of

899
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: that every time we you know, do a water drop,

900
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 1: especially out out in the desert areas where it's a

901
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 1: rare water drop, that we will not find pottery shards

902
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: lying lying in the sand, or come across rock shelters,

903
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 1: some with pictographs. Um and uh, the you know, it's

904
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 1: just you know, very poignant juxtaposition of of Kumi cultural

905
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: artifacts with modern day you know, shoe covers, discarded water bottles,

906
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: and of course many people who do migrate are indigenous

907
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 1: them themselves. Um So yeah, personally, you know, I view

908
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 1: all of these border issues, uh through the lens of

909
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 1: history culture with with the core truth that this is

910
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 1: indigenous land, This is Kumii land and it has always

911
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 1: been and the modern so called border is a very

912
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 1: recent uh political um creation. You know that, you know,

913
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 1: mid nineteenth century, you know before that this was Mexico

914
01:03:55,840 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 1: and now now where we call it the US. But

915
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 1: this is all recent and from my perspective, unless you

916
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 1: are a Kumier, I really don't know how anybody could

917
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: can really get on their high horse and really speak

918
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: with any authority about who belongs here, who belongs here,

919
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 1: who doesn't belong here, because the rest of us, we

920
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 1: are all guests on Kumie land. That includes every single

921
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 1: border patrol agent. And that's that's something I always like

922
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 1: to remember. Yeah, yeah, the border is very much like

923
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 1: colonialism in action. It's even We're going to have some

924
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 1: Kumi folks, hopefully in the next couple of weeks, to

925
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 1: talk about the desecration of Kumi burial site by the

926
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: border wall, which is an ongoing thing. Like I haven't

927
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 1: stopped when they just I can't tell stories about it

928
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: like I could in twenty twenty because you know, Orange

929
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 1: Man Bad isn't a thing anymore. But yeah, like all

930
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 1: across the border, right, noticed here that the Yaki all

931
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: across the border is Native. Now the whole of the

932
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 1: circled United States is Native land, and it's not indigenous

933
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 1: folks out there trying to kill people in the desert.

934
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 1: Is there anythink Emmett that you wanted to add? Yeah,

935
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:13,920
Speaker 1: I just want to say this, Well, I don't know,

936
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 1: we'll so we can ramble forever. So we'll stop stop

937
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 1: rambling a second. But Um, I guess I really want

938
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 1: to say, and this is coming from a very skewed

939
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: white males perspective, but I just feel like so much

940
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 1: of these power structures that we're engaged with, and us

941
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 1: as a nation trying to find our identity, it's so hypocritical,

942
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: particularly in this moment where a climate and social instability

943
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:42,960
Speaker 1: is at it's it's it's height. I mean in my lifetime,

944
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:44,480
Speaker 1: and I think in many of our lifetimes, we see

945
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 1: this as a really precarious moment. Yeah, it just feels

946
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 1: so so hypocritical to police people's sovereignties to find safety

947
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 1: and to be in safety. UM. You know, we we

948
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 1: have all of these ideals in our country around respecting

949
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 1: each other's freedoms, um. And also as we are importing

950
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: and exporting so many goods and also so much culture

951
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:13,919
Speaker 1: and so fundamentally intertwined with, um, the lives of people

952
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: from all over the world. For us to say what

953
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: is wrong and what is right in this moment, and

954
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 1: for us to have this this moral authority to to

955
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 1: put people in in prison just for for for seeking

956
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 1: safety for many years, and of course I have many

957
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 1: people who I know and lived with who have been

958
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 1: in in who when we're in attention for for several

959
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 1: years UM for seeking that the amount of UM. Just

960
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 1: how twisted it is that we are comfortable spending our

961
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:51,560
Speaker 1: lives as Americans never considering UM or never really critically

962
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 1: engaging UM with this active pursuit, this acting, these actions

963
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 1: to to to limit people's ability to survive. UM two

964
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: feels like it really needs to be centered in this conversation.

965
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: And again this is coming from my skewed perspective, but

966
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 1: I just UM, I really want to make the point clear.

967
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:19,360
Speaker 1: This is not about this is not about these these

968
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 1: lofty ideals of what a country could be or who

969
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 1: and who is not justified or useful in our country,

970
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: we make these arbitrary assessments of what's justified or what's

971
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 1: legal and not legal, and very often those are just

972
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 1: continuing the legacy of exploitation of black and brown people,

973
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 1: the exploitation of landscapes, the exploitation of labor, the exploitation

974
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 1: of people whose voices are not heard and politically, economically

975
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 1: and continuing a conversation of in O Time Astance Center UM,

976
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 1: people who are attained are are cleaning their own cells

977
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 1: and there their their their labors actually being exploited as well.

978
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 1: You can't distinguish the fact that there is the history

979
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 1: of policing in our country, and the history of prisons

980
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: is specifically a project to continue white supremacy. Um. And

981
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:21,759
Speaker 1: you can see particularly the differential policing of immigration currently

982
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 1: and the differential way that certain people from certain countries

983
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 1: are or are not valid to enter this country and

984
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 1: at the very least be treated with respect and dignity

985
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 1: in their process. And that's what we see CBP every

986
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:46,679
Speaker 1: single day, violating people's basic access to human dignity, acts

987
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 1: to life, which are protected by all nations in writing

988
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:54,599
Speaker 1: and very often not in practice. Yeah, yeah, I think

989
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:56,720
Speaker 1: this will said like, it's a very basic human thing.

990
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 1: It doesn't need to be like shrouds and in constitutional

991
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:03,599
Speaker 1: and thank you also said a capital flow is very

992
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:07,640
Speaker 1: freely across across the border, but people aren't allowed to

993
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: the Yeah, it's pretty messed up. Guys. Where can people

994
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 1: if they want to support, if they want to just

995
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: send a kind word. Where can people find you on

996
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 1: the internet? Now? The best way probably is on Instagram.

997
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 1: We have an account Borderland's Relief Collective reach out to

998
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:31,439
Speaker 1: us and I do want to give a shout out

999
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: to our sister organizations Border Kindness. Their water drop program,

1000
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 1: led by Jacqueline and James, has been doing tremendous work

1001
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 1: for years. Border Angels, which is kind of the parent

1002
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 1: organization of water Drop volunteer groups in California. Our comrades

1003
01:09:57,479 --> 01:10:01,280
Speaker 1: who do search and rescue as well as recovery of

1004
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 1: those who have have died, including Armadillos and Aguilas Eagles

1005
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 1: of the Desert. Very very proud to be in this

1006
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:16,600
Speaker 1: community of people who are trying to help people in

1007
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 1: the borderliness. Yeah, yeah, thank you very much. Guys. That's

1008
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 1: pretty great. It could happen here as a production of

1009
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

1010
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zonemedia dot com or check us

1011
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:35,640
Speaker 1: out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

1012
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It could

1013
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: Happen here, updated monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources.

1014
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.