WEBVTT - U.K.'s Climate Envoy on the Race to Net Zero 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.280 I'm Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switched on the 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:06.320 b n F podcast. So each year BNF hosts a 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:10.240 series of summits. We had to turn our summits virtual, 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:13.560 but they continued to tell important stories for each region. 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:18.680 In Shanghai, the topics revolved around energy, industry and transport, 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.480 and in today's episode we feature an interview from our 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:25.360 Shanghai summit, which took place back in December. We had 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:29.200 the pleasure of hosting John Murton, COP twenty six envoy 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.680 for the UK government and he spoke about carbon neutrality 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:35.120 and the race to net zero. Before we head into 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:38.680 today's recording, a quick reminder that BIENNF does not provide 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.040 investment or strategy advice, and we have a complete disclaimer 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:44.240 at the end of the show. Also, to see other 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:47.680 interviews from this summit and other b n F summits, 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:52.920 head to about dot BIENF dot com Forward Slash Summit. 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:57.480 John Murton was interviewed by Veronica Henza, who leads communications 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:07.959 at bien EF. Let's hear Veronica with John Mercy. John, 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.319 welcome and thank you so much for joining our BENF 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:15.280 summit in Shanghai. It's a pleasure to host you. Thank 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.280 you great to be there. John. We've seen a number 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:22.400 of countries make net zero commitments recently. Can you share 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:26.000 a few thoughts on how the economics of a low 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:30.240 carbon transition are changing. Well, as we look towards organizing 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.000 COP twenty six, we have a tail wind behind us 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.240 that perhaps people organizing Company one in Paris didn't have. 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:40.080 And that's to say that in the past, in order 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.400 to encourage countries to reduce their emissions, we were having 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:45.039 to persuade them to give up a little bit of 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.640 the economic growth. But now, because of the changing economics 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:53.320 of renewables and zero emission vehicles and other low carbon technology, 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:56.760 we were able to say not only that that trade 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.720 off doesn't apply, and you can see that by looking 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.360 at the G seven growth figures over the last thirty years, 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.120 where the UK has been the fastest growing economy and 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.840 also the economy that has cut it submissions the past. 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.240 Is not only does the old trade off no longer apply, 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.320 but actually the reverses is true, and that in order 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.359 to grow your economy you need to agree in your economy. 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:19.240 Green economy is the fastest growing sector of the world economy, 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.000 much fast in the brown economy, and so if you 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.280 want to grow your economy, you have to increasingly direct 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.600 it in that green direction, and markets points in that direction. 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.440 That's why Tesla is worth more than Toyota and next 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.800 day energy is worth more than ex China has obviously 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.400 been one of those countries making a commitment recently. What 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:42.280 do you expect the impact of China's twenties sixty commitment 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.880 to be on the energy transition overall? The Chinese commitment 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.480 is obviously very very welcome, and it's having a number 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:53.160 of impacts. It's having a diplomatic impact. We saw that, 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.160 you know, just in the six weeks after the Chinese announcement, 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.840 we saw Japan, the world's third largest economy, make commitment 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:02.400 to net zero in twenty fifty, and then weeks after 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.240 that we saw the Korean economy make a commitment to 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.640 to net zero by so it's having a diplomatic impact 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:10.919 that we hope we can leverage through the world as 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:13.480 we go forward next year. But this also will have 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.160 a market impact and economic impact. As you described, so, 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:19.720 one would imagine if you were an investor in coal 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.799 mining right now, you might be feeling that your investment 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.359 was much less certain than it was before these announcements 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:28.520 were made, and you might be considering that now would 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.240 be the time to move your investment out of coal mining, 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:33.640 for example, and into some of the sectors that are 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:36.560 likely to profit from the shift to the low carbon economy. 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:41.400 And John, obviously, besides making this public statement, what would 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.960 you expect, or at least wish for the steps for 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.920 China to take to actually meet its Paris goals. Setting 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.080 a net zero target has been really welcome, and that's 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.520 written into the Paris Agreement. All the countries that signed 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.080 up to Paris signed up to the language and the 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:01.840 Paris Agreement that that talked about a balance between anthropogenic 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.520 emissions on the one hand and natural stynth on the 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:06.960 other in the second half of the twenty one century. 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.040 So it's right that everyone is gradually signing up to 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:12.920 these net zero goals more formally and putting a date 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.680 on them through next year will be encouraging all countries 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:19.040 to come forward with net zero goals, and including particularly 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.240 those industrialized economies that have yet to do so. But 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:24.680 sending a long term goal is one thing, but it's 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.880 also really important to start working it back and working 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:29.679 out what that means you need to do in policy 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:33.279 terms today, next week, next year, in the next five 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:36.240 years and so on. We set a legally binding net 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.799 zero goal in the UK back in in the summer 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.440 of and over the last eighty months we've been working 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.000 through very carefully what does that mean. What do we 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.360 have to do to achieve net zero? No one's ever 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.400 done it before, and you know, there are certain complex 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:52.960 things that you have to work out that you're going 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:56.680 to do, whether that's in terms of housing standards, because 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.240 any house you build today is likely to still be 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:03.440 around in twenty fifty or twenty sixty, or in vehicle standards, 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.039 because any vehicle that's sold in could still be on 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.440 the road by twenty fifty, or in other areas of 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.560 your economy. So we're looking forward to working with all 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.440 the countries that are setting net zero targets to discuss 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:18.560 our experiences and to work out how we get to 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:20.960 those those those targets in the longer term and what 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.039 we need to do in the shorter term in order 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.160 to put us on the right path. And John, you're 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:29.359 engaged and climbed diplomacy, and by all Marines, I'm curious 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:34.560 to hear your quick take on what exactly that entails. 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:40.440 But what are your team's goals ahead of cop next 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.479 year and what are you working towards and trying to achieve. 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:45.760 Twenty six will be the largest summit the UK has 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.159 ever hosted, and it's a really important summit in the 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:53.599 unf tripal seat process. In Copenhagen in Denmark in twenty 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:58.800 ten and then again in Paris in tift, these major conferences, 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.320 the world was trying to find an agreement on climate 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:03.480 change that all countries could sign up to. There was 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:07.159 famuluere in Copenhagen and there was success in Paris. So 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.159 our job in Glasgow is not to have negotiated a 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.880 new treaty. The treaty was negotiated in in Paris. That 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.960 the agreement was negotiated in Paris, and that had enormous 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:20.200 strength because a d n countries signed up to to 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.919 adhere to it. Our goal therever is not just to 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.279 negotiate a new treaty, but to show that the existing 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.680 treaty can work. Paris's strength is its universality. But it's 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:33.480 still unproven that the concept of voluntary action and voluntary targets, 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:37.640 which is what NDCs, Nationally determined contributions are can work 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:40.279 and deliver what we need to achieve in terms of 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.520 limiting temperature rise, so that we can achieve o our 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:45.600 climate goals. So in Glasgow we have to demonstrate to 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.000 the world that the Paris Agreement can work, and that 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:51.760 this principle of voluntary action and ever increasing ambition can work, 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:54.440 and that we can use it to deliver the goals 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:56.520 of the Paris Agreement, which is to limit the temperature 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:58.960 rise around the world, to know more than two degrees 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:01.680 and as close to one point five DeGreasy as possible. 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.039 So to do that, we're encouraging all countries to set 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:07.400 long term strategies of the sort of China and Japan 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.680 and Career are now setting. We're in encouraging all countries 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:15.240 to come forward with revised and more ambitious nationally determined contributions, 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.200 that's to say, their their plans for reducing emissions over 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.480 the next ten years to so that we're sending strong 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.640 signals to investors about the direction of our economies. And 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:29.520 we're trying to support that by five campaigns that will 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:33.680 bring together actors, not just national level governments, but actors 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.560 in the corporate world, and in civil society and and 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.680 the local government level to bring them together to show 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.120 that actually ambitious climate action is really possible, and it's 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.800 not just something we're doing for the sake of the planet, 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:47.400 but there's something we're doing for the sake of our 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.680 economies and our lineblihoods. And those campaigns are around adaptation 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.360 and resilience because climate change is already happening now and 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.920 we need to make sure that we're able to help 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.240 those people who are the most vulnerable to climate change 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.000 and experience in the West effects too, to adapt and 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:05.160 become more resilient in the face of it. And we're working, 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.240 for example, with the insurance sector in that regard as well. 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.960 There financial elements to that. We're working on nature based 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.400 solutions to show that conserving your peat lands or your 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.240 forests or your swamps it's really important in terms of 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:21.880 tackling climate change and also provides other additional services to 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:25.600 your economy flood prevention and so on. We're working to 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.920 speed the transition to renewable energy around the world. We 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.599 know that the economic case for renewable energy is is 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.600 very strong. That's why two thirds of the installed capacity 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:37.760 in the world last year was solar and wind because 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.479 of the new installed capacity, but we want to accelerate 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:44.280 that transition. And the fourth campaign is about zero mission vehicles. 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.160 Again we want to accelerate the transition the uptake of 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:51.520 zero mission vehicle technology. And underpinning all those by four 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.760 other campaigns as a campaign around finance, both to make 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.880 available the finance to developing countries that was promised at 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.720 Paris and again at Copenhagen, the hundred billion and dollars 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.559 a year that developing countries promised, but also to make 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:07.240 sure that the impact of climate change is really considered 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:09.800 in financial decision making, so that whether you're a finance 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:13.440 minister or a finance executive on the board of your company, 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:16.880 you understand the impact of climate change upon your activities, 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.880 and you understand the impact of your activities upon climate change. 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.520 And hopefully those five campaigns will enable countries to be 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.440 more ambitious and also, in the case of finance in 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.400 the hundred billion a year, create the political conditions so 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:34.440 that we can conclude successfully the negotiations on the remaining 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.520 outstanding elements of the Paris rule Book. That's a very 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:42.479 clearly fully packed agenda and the five different streams you've outlined. 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:46.520 Does that mean that the outcomes we can expect to 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:51.560 see in November next year, will they be more ambitious 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:55.280 since basically we skipped a year of having come together, 0:09:56.200 --> 0:10:00.000 or will they still be kind of matching the expectations 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:04.520 that we would have had for I'm confident and optimistic 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:10.280 that we can deliver more ambitious outcomes in November one 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:12.880 that we would otherwise have been able to do. COVID 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:16.240 nineteen has obviously been a terrible thing and impacted hugely 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.120 upon society's and economies around the world, and it's been 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:21.840 right that are our political leaders have been focused on 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:25.800 that in twenty and it was right to delay six. 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:28.240 But there is a silver sort of lining to all 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:29.800 of that, in the sense of there's a lot of 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:33.040 money being spent now on recovery around the world, and 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.520 we need to make sure that that money has spent 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:39.040 not on propping up old brown industries that commit that 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:41.440 the sort of contribute to the pollution and the climate 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.480 change problem that we're experiencing around the world, but that 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:46.920 that new investment to get our economies going in after 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:51.400 COVID nineteen focuses on stimulating the green economy and accelerating 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:54.480 our transition to a green economy. So I'm confident that 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.360 we can do that around the world. We've seen the 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:01.320 commitments from China and Japan and here in recent months. 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.280 The delay of COP twenty six means that now we 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.520 will be hosting COP twenty six after the inauguration of 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:10.120 President Biden, who has committed to making a net zero 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.360 target for the United States of America, which means that 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.199 also will be hosting COP twenty six in the year 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.280 when the UK holds the G seven presidency, and we 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.680 can hope that the G seven summit in the summer 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:23.560 will be the first G seven summit where all the 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.320 participating countries have got net zero goals of their own, 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.600 and in a year when our Italian partners are Italian 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.400 co hosts are hosting the G twenty presidency this year, 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:34.760 so we can see the G twenty in a similar 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:37.360 direction to supporting our cock p Relea six goals. So 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:39.520 I'm confident that by the time we get to the 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:42.000 end of COPT six, we'll be able to show the 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.200 world that we're on an irreversible and accelerating transition to 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.840 a low carbon economy. Now for a very short break 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:52.200 stay with us and John to what extent is your 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.760 team directly involved in getting those companies to commit to 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.360 net zero targets. So we work both directly with companies 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:03.079 and also through the UN's High Level Climate Action Champion, 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.800 Nigel Topping, and we were very closely with companies to 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.720 try and encourage them to take on ambitious new commitments 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:14.680 because companies are delivering climate emissions reductions in the real world, 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.320 but also they give confidence to governments that they can 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:19.920 be more ambitious. If you just look at the recent 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.360 commitment made by the UK government to bring forward phase 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.080 out for the sale of sort of internal combustion engines 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:30.520 from a lot of that was drawn upon sort of 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:34.040 enthusiasm in the industry to make the transition quickly so 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.520 industry can help government along. And I think we've passed 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.880 the days when government was dragging industry along and saying, 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:42.199 come on, you have to do this for the sake 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.960 of planet. And now often in many areas, in many sectors, 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.440 but not all sectors, it's industry dragging government along saying 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.040 come on, we need to go faster. We need you 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.720 to help us set the regulatory framework that will enable 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.520 the uptake of this new technologies. It's a bit similar 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:58.920 to what you said in terms of industry actually being 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.080 ahead of government what we've seen around climate disclosures right, 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.720 just for instance, the TCFD that task for some climate 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.400 related financial disclosures with an industry leed initiative, and now 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:12.319 we're seeing a lot of governments making those recommendations mandatory. 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.840 I think that's a good example that kind of fits 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.600 into into that. It's a great example, and you saw 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.760 our Finance Minister just a couple of weeks ago made 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:24.040 it clear that by twenty three disclosure along TCFD lines 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.960 will be mandatory for all the UK listed firms, and 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.960 that means if you're a pension fund manager or an 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.080 investment manager, you can actually have information that enables you 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.920 to make informed decisions about climate risk within your portfolio. 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:41.280 John you just mentioned as well, um Burst Johnson's ten 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:45.160 point plan for a Green Industrial Revolution. In terms of 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.839 the UK putting such a plan out there and hosting 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:54.240 COUP next year as a host country for CUP, what 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:57.840 are the expectations are there further expectations for the UK 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.920 to step up on climate action and can we potentially 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.840 expect other major announcements coming out from the UK in 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:09.080 that sense, I think there are I think I mentioned 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.880 earlier on how the nature of COPS is changing. So 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.319 there will still be negotiations in Glasgow and we will 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.320 share those as Presidency, but the focus will not just 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.280 be on negotiations, but will also be on how we're 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.120 encouraging countries to come forward a new and ambitious plans. 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.080 So the role of the Presidency, whilst it used to 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.200 be only a chair of the negotiations and if you like, 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.840 was an impartial referee, now we also have to be 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.800 a cheerleader for ambition and we can only really realistically 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.760 encourage other countries to take ambitious steps to tackle climate 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.760 change if we're doing that ourselves at home. And so 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.880 it's really important that as hosts, we are delivering ambitious 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.960 plans for our own climate action. And you saw that 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.120 with our Prime Minister's ten point plans Beach just a 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.360 couple of weeks ago, where he committed us to forty 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:57.120 gigas of off your wind by up from ten. Now 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.040 that's that will be enough to power every home in 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:02.360 the UK with offshore wind energy, and he framed it 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:04.920 very much in the language of jobs and in the 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.760 language of a green industrial revolution, because he sees that 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.040 actually this won't just be good for the climate, but 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:11.960 it will be good for our economy, and not just 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.120 the economy generally, but also the prime ministers and leveling 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.760 up agenda. So it's it's sort of win win win 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.680 in so many ways. He committed to ensuring that there 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.840 would be five gigawatts a year of low carbon hydrogen 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.200 production in twenty thirty and the sort of the whole 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:32.000 hydrogen economy is a green industrial revolution and waiting to happen. 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.840 And he made numerous other commitments that effect sectors like 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.760 house building, bringing forward the standards for new greener houses 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.480 in the UK, and also, most notably in which was 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:43.960 really picked up on in the press, the phase out 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.680 of the sale of petrol and diesel engines by twenty thirty, 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.640 a whole decade earlier than we had originally planned. And 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.840 increasingly the view is that actually this is not a 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.440 cost to be feared, but an opportunity to be embraced. 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.840 And the analogy I use is is mobile phones. And 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.280 I've spent half my working career in Africa and in Kenya, 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.440 for example, where I did my PhD if you'd have 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.680 said to people in in twenty years time, there'll be 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.080 more phones than people in Kenya, everyone would have laughed 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:13.880 and said, well, we can never afford that. That's never 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.040 going to happen. I have to wait seven years for 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.240 the state utility to bring a landline to my house 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.760 to connect me to the telephones, and lo and behold. 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:22.320 Now you know you have more phones than people in 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:26.160 Kenya because the technology made it in people's commercial interest 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:28.520 to do it. And we're seeing that very much with 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.640 the renewables and with zero mission vehicles and the International 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.320 Energy Agency just the other day he said solar power 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.840 is the cheapest electricity we've ever had. And I was 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:40.320 speaking to the Indian Energy Minister today and he told 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:43.000 me that in the latest deals they've had for renewable 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:44.880 energy in India, they brought down the cost to two 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.520 point seven US cents per killer what hour. So it 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.160 gives me a great challenge. I can go to other 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.480 economies and saying you're paying nine twelve cents the killer 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:55.920 what hour for your false and fuel power, how will 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:58.480 your energy intensive industries compete with those in India that 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:00.920 are getting power for two point seven sense? And that 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:03.240 really makes people sit up and listen and you know 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:05.639 that change will start to happen very quickly. On I 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.399 Suspect and John, I, I've actually meant to touch on 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:12.560 your experience working in Africa. You've been the British ambassador 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.520 to the Democratic Republic of the Congo, you had numerous 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.960 other roles in other African countries. Can you maybe share 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.679 a little bit about your experience and impressions, you know, 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.040 working in these countries but also with the lens in 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.920 terms of how are these developing nations approaching the energy 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:35.679 transitions and what economics are at play over there. So 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:39.640 I'm personally really excited about the opportunities for a low 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:43.200 carbon transition in a lot of African economies. They because 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:45.919 in some of the economies, and indeed some of the 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.120 ones with the infrastructure that is sort of least sort 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:53.960 of well suited currently, for example electrical transmission, the opportunities 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.160 offered by renewables are immense. So in my previous job, 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:59.359 I was working in the DRC. As you mentioned, now, 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:03.119 the electricity transmission grid around the DRC is essentially is 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.320 not in a good state of repair and there are 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.280 many outlying cities and towns that don't have access to 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.520 the grid. But the great thing about renewables is that 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.960 they're infinitely scalable. You can have one panel generating enough 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:16.960 power for a household, or you can have a whole 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:21.400 solar farm, and the economics are very scalable. And so 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:23.520 you can put now in place a minigrid in a 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:27.160 town in in northern DRC, for example, and you don't 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.399 have to build out a national grid to that town. 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.479 You can just install a grid in that town and 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:36.560 it generates. They're in place, and so that that is 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:40.000 sort of enhancing the economics of renewables, because if you 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.000 compared it to say, putting a massive qualified power station 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.600 in place centrally in Kishassa and then building out a 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.680 grid to connect towns to that, the economics of renewables 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.680 suddenly become very favorable. And that is even right down 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.520 to the rooftop level. And we've seen fantastic companies like 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:58.000 m Copper and be Box working in Eastern and Central 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.880 Africa delivering household a right to people's doors on their 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:06.600 roots and in combination with telephone technology so that you 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.600 pay a little some every day to buy the solar panels. 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:11.879 And if you don't pay the sum. The solar panels 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.520 sort of stopped working because they're controlled by a mobile phone. 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.760 So it's there's a really exciting technology out there, and 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.119 that's important for the politics of the negotiations as well, 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:25.560 because sometimes when a technology develops, it's actually more accessible 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:29.679 in advanced industrialized economies. But all of the technology that 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.240 I'm seeing in terms of renewable Angie actually is is 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.800 very deployable in emerging markets, and hopefully we can use it. 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.800 Just as we saw the mobile phone give millions and 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:42.640 millions of African consumers access to telephony for the first time, 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.720 Hopefully the deployment of renewable technology can give millions and 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.400 millions of African consumers access to electricity for the first 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:51.920 time as well, and that will be a really significant win, 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.000 not just for climate action, but also for people's welfare 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.919 and lifelihoods in those countries. Yeah, it's really this idea 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:01.480 of them being able to leave prog and jump ahead 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:06.480 using cleaner technologies basically, and John, how can the people 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:10.880 listening in take concrete steps and drive climate action if 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.800 you're operating in a country where the government hasn't yet 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.199 set a long term target. Encourage your host government to 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.840 set a long term emissions reduction target. We found that 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.480 that has been really helpful in the UK because it 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:25.760 creates a field which lowers the cost of capital for investors. 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:27.760 If you know that there's going to be a market 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:30.480 for lower carbon economy products in your country because they're 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:32.879 set in an zero target, it reduces your cost of 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.439 capital and it makes your business more successful in the 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:38.520 low carbon sector. So encourage your governments to set ambitious 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.879 targets because it will actually help drive your business. But 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:45.760 also take on a target internally very interesting. Once a 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.080 company takes on a target, it starts sort of mainstreaming 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.960 the idea of climate action through the group, and that 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:54.760 has really interesting effects. And if I've spoken to the 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:58.320 the sustainability CEOs of a number of major companies in 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.639 the Asian region, and I sup to one who remained nameless, 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.000 but he said he had a twenty four percent return 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.720 on capital employed in his sustainability division within the company, 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.919 installing essentially energy efficiency innovations within the rest of the company, 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:13.960 and that was the highest return on capital employed in 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.600 the group. It's not sexy, but it has a real 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:18.760 impact on the bottom line. As well as a really 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:24.040