1
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,040
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

2
00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,080
Speaker 2: The Robin Hood Foundation is enlisting the boldest names in

3
00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:15,000
Speaker 2: finance for a stock picking contest. Participants are donating ten

4
00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,799
Speaker 2: thousand dollars and making two stock picks, a long and

5
00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,000
Speaker 2: a short per entry. Bloomberg LP, the parent of Bloomberg Television,

6
00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,480
Speaker 2: is working with the Robin Hood Foundation on the competition.

7
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,040
Speaker 2: And one of the players here Carson Block. He's the

8
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,640
Speaker 2: founder and CEO of Muddy Waters. Carson is currently ranked

9
00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,000
Speaker 2: at number twenty on the leaderboard and Carson this game.

10
00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,599
Speaker 2: I'm getting a kick out of it because when it started,

11
00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,120
Speaker 2: we were in a market that was net long, and

12
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,960
Speaker 2: now you're looking at a lot of people starting to

13
00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,280
Speaker 2: win more deeply off their shorts. For example, Bill Ackman

14
00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:52,440
Speaker 2: short the financials that looked smart today, Stan Druckenmiller's short

15
00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,080
Speaker 2: consumer discretionary. What about you when you think about the

16
00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,240
Speaker 2: ability to go short in this market, how deeply do

17
00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:01,000
Speaker 2: you dive in?

18
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,080
Speaker 3: Well? So for us, I mean we do.

19
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:11,560
Speaker 1: All of our shorts are basically the subject of activist short.

20
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:12,600
Speaker 3: Reporting at some point.

21
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,880
Speaker 1: So the name that we're short for the contest anyway,

22
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,880
Speaker 1: and we're not actually short, it in real life anymore.

23
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,200
Speaker 3: But is Griffles, and.

24
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,160
Speaker 1: That was the subject of an activist short report by

25
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,920
Speaker 1: Gotham City Research, and that's a company based in Spain.

26
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,919
Speaker 1: And it's actually pretty interesting because you know, at this moment,

27
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,319
Speaker 1: obviously there's a lot of political turmoil, and you go

28
00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 1: to Vice President jd Vance's dressing down of NATO ministers

29
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,200
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago over a free speech in the EU.

30
00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:51,000
Speaker 1: It's funny because with Griffles, the national regulator in Spain

31
00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 1: actually investigated the allegations by Gotham City Research and has

32
00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:00,000
Speaker 1: largely corroborated them. Griffles expects to pay though a fine

33
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,480
Speaker 1: of no more than one million euro. However, the principles

34
00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:09,520
Speaker 1: behind Gotham City Research are presently under criminal investigation for

35
00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,560
Speaker 1: that report in Spain and could do up to six

36
00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:17,480
Speaker 1: years prison time. So Griffls really does have this political

37
00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,119
Speaker 1: overtone as well. That makes it interesting.

38
00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,160
Speaker 4: Well, I want to talk about a stock that actually

39
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:24,800
Speaker 4: you don't recommend going short.

40
00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,400
Speaker 5: I'm talking about Tesla.

41
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,200
Speaker 4: You spoke to Bloomberg TV about a month ago about

42
00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:30,280
Speaker 4: Elon Musk and Tesla.

43
00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:31,840
Speaker 5: Let's take a quick listen.

44
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,200
Speaker 1: It's one thing to ask whether you bet on Elon Musk,

45
00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,520
Speaker 1: but I would not bet against him. I wonder if

46
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,280
Speaker 1: he's I suspect he has switched views on a macro level,

47
00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,919
Speaker 1: but especially with how he thinks about Tesla, that would

48
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,000
Speaker 1: be a little bit embarrassing for him to say publicly.

49
00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, maybe just banging the table about oh Ai

50
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,919
Speaker 1: AI and robotaxis is how he tries to cover up

51
00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,000
Speaker 1: that sentiment shift internally.

52
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,120
Speaker 5: So Carson, that was on February eighteenth.

53
00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,840
Speaker 4: The stock is down mightily since then, down about thirty

54
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,480
Speaker 4: eight percent year to date. I know that Tesla has

55
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,040
Speaker 4: broken the hearts of many folks who have tried to

56
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,480
Speaker 4: go short it. But is that still the advice don't

57
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:13,720
Speaker 4: bet against Elon Musk.

58
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:19,400
Speaker 1: Well, i'd say more aptly, Tesla has broken the backs

59
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,600
Speaker 1: of many people who've been shorted. But look, I still

60
00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,880
Speaker 1: maintain that it's really hard to bet against Elon Musk.

61
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,360
Speaker 1: Of course, that was awesome timing when I said that,

62
00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,520
Speaker 1: because it's been about the best short you could find

63
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,160
Speaker 1: on the planet since the moment in which I said that.

64
00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,080
Speaker 1: But you know, I think that's more due to market

65
00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:44,400
Speaker 1: factors and technicals and political uncertainty. Look, I've long been

66
00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,760
Speaker 1: critical and I agree with many of the shorts over

67
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,200
Speaker 1: the years that he has not been honest. I've called

68
00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,800
Speaker 1: him publicly a liar, but also nobody has played the

69
00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,160
Speaker 1: public company game better than Elon Musk. Now is he

70
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,120
Speaker 1: doing ereper bowl damage to the Tesla brand with his

71
00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:08,200
Speaker 1: political involvement. I mean maybe, But again, this guy for

72
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,480
Speaker 1: years and years and years has done nothing but pull

73
00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,480
Speaker 1: rabbits out of the hat. Just when you thought like

74
00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,640
Speaker 1: he was about to go over the edge of the cliff,

75
00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,560
Speaker 1: he comes back. So it's just a very difficult person

76
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:25,480
Speaker 1: against against whom to bet. So yeah, I there, you know,

77
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,279
Speaker 1: We're happy looking elsewhere for shorts.

78
00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,760
Speaker 6: What do you think about the broader mag seven?

79
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:32,520
Speaker 3: Carson?

80
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,800
Speaker 6: Back in October you said close your eyes and buy

81
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,200
Speaker 6: in terms of the big US stocks. For a while,

82
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 6: that was a great still a great bet right until

83
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,160
Speaker 6: I guess the market hit it's high right in.

84
00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 3: Last month.

85
00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,400
Speaker 6: Now we've seen the Magnificent seven come down. I think

86
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,560
Speaker 6: all of them are losers year to date, with the

87
00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:03,200
Speaker 6: exception of Meta. Is is it time to short these

88
00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,240
Speaker 6: stocks or do you think they're going to continue to

89
00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,320
Speaker 6: have I guess a little bit of resilience even after

90
00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 6: the pause that refreshes maybe that we've just seen.

91
00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,120
Speaker 1: So the larger context of what I was saying there

92
00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,200
Speaker 1: was I was talking about how in the US the

93
00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:27,040
Speaker 1: markets are so warped by passive investing and fundamentals matter,

94
00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,520
Speaker 1: you know, less and less every day. So the mag

95
00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,039
Speaker 1: seven will continue to attract because the S and P

96
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 1: five hundred index, it's it's really an active index, right,

97
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,800
Speaker 1: they always call to herd and drop the weakest, and

98
00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,560
Speaker 1: then the companies who are experience, that are experiencing the

99
00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,840
Speaker 1: most market cap appreciation get greater weighting. So it's also

100
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 1: a momentum index. So momentum has sold off. But when

101
00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,120
Speaker 1: you look at why has momentum been such a strong

102
00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,799
Speaker 1: way to play the markets for you know, since really

103
00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,320
Speaker 1: the GFC, it has to do with monetary policy, you know,

104
00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 1: and what's been for the vast majority of.

105
00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:08,640
Speaker 3: Time extreme stimulus.

106
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,560
Speaker 1: And it's also been significantly attributable to the shift from

107
00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 1: active investing to passive investing. So I don't see us

108
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,080
Speaker 1: going in reverse way from passive.

109
00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,160
Speaker 3: So yeah, like twenty two, you.

110
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,839
Speaker 1: Had a reversal when rate when you know, conditions tightened

111
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,799
Speaker 1: and rates went up, and we're seeing political uncertainty weighing

112
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,840
Speaker 1: on the markets right now. But yes, structurally, the top

113
00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:35,839
Speaker 1: names in the S and P five hundred are going

114
00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,080
Speaker 1: to going to continue to attract flows, and most of

115
00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,480
Speaker 1: those flows come from four oh one K purchasing. So

116
00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:48,320
Speaker 1: if you see a situation which unemployment climbs significantly and

117
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,480
Speaker 1: four oh one K net flows become net negative.

118
00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 3: Then you have to watch out.

119
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,280
Speaker 1: Then all those stocks go into reverse hard, and it's

120
00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:58,760
Speaker 1: hard to see where the bottom would be.

121
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,000
Speaker 3: But at this point in time, I don't see that.

122
00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,040
Speaker 2: You know, Carson. One thing that I've been watching very

123
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,680
Speaker 2: closely is a turn and sentiment around financial stocks. This

124
00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,360
Speaker 2: is a hot trade. At the end of last year,

125
00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,480
Speaker 2: you made some big calls. The one against BX empt

126
00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,720
Speaker 2: in regard to the dividend turned out to play out.

127
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,120
Speaker 2: Now I'm wondering how you're looking across the financials universe.

128
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,840
Speaker 2: Are you looking for new shorts in banks, in real estate?

129
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:23,679
Speaker 2: Where's the pain?

130
00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,960
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, look, we're we're generally not thematic, so

131
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 1: we you know, and we're only thematic when we look

132
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:34,080
Speaker 1: in the rear view mirror.

133
00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:34,720
Speaker 3: So we did.

134
00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,480
Speaker 1: We were really early on a lot of shorting the

135
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,520
Speaker 1: ESG type names. I mean so right now, we're not

136
00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,360
Speaker 1: looking in any specific sectors or even industries. I you know,

137
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,560
Speaker 1: in terms of commercial real estate, you know, I'm not

138
00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:50,720
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know how much juice there is

139
00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,240
Speaker 1: to be squeezed there, because now there is this uncertainty

140
00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,800
Speaker 1: around rate cuts. You know, f rates get cut enough,

141
00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,200
Speaker 1: at some point, the CRE starts to look less bad

142
00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,480
Speaker 1: than it had been looking. So at this point, you know,

143
00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,520
Speaker 1: I don't really want to try to make it. I've

144
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,160
Speaker 1: never wanted to try to make a rates bet, at

145
00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,760
Speaker 1: least on the future direction of rates. So I think

146
00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,320
Speaker 1: if you're considering CRE type shorts, you're starting to get into.

147
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:17,320
Speaker 3: That land right now.

148
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 1: So, as you said, our thesis on BXMT played out.

149
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,560
Speaker 1: You know, we're happy about that, but I think there's

150
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,880
Speaker 1: too much uncertainty going forward for.

151
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,440
Speaker 2: Us anyway, Carson, what about elsewhere in the world of

152
00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,560
Speaker 2: financial is one thing that there's a lot of bell

153
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,719
Speaker 2: ringing about is the difference between public and private marks. Yeah,

154
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,840
Speaker 2: you are starting to see more private capital type vehicles

155
00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,080
Speaker 2: enter the public markets. Private capital entering public markets. Are

156
00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,480
Speaker 2: you looking at BBC's or other types of vehicles that

157
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,920
Speaker 2: might have private holdings that might not be reflecting those

158
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,000
Speaker 2: underlying marks.

159
00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,920
Speaker 1: Well, that's interesting because I think it was maybe around

160
00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:04,520
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen BDC's were pretty hot area for short sellers,

161
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,240
Speaker 1: and also prior to the financial crisis, you know, if

162
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:12,160
Speaker 1: you remember, David Einhorn Greenlight famously shorted one of the

163
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,360
Speaker 1: bit Allied Capital and wrote a book on that. So yeah,

164
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,640
Speaker 1: BDC's in the past have been very aggressive with their marks.

165
00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,720
Speaker 1: You know, from our perspective, the issue is is there

166
00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,320
Speaker 1: enough liquidity in the you know, in the BDC and

167
00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:28,960
Speaker 1: so a lot of the air had come out of

168
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,120
Speaker 1: them at some point. It's not an area that we've

169
00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,040
Speaker 1: looked at recently, but yeah, you know, I think once

170
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,560
Speaker 1: you get a lot of capital flowing into that space,

171
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,080
Speaker 1: you will certainly have players who are going to be

172
00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,000
Speaker 1: a lot more aggressive. And really anybody who gets to

173
00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,679
Speaker 1: make up their marks and gets compensated based on that

174
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,560
Speaker 1: has a built in incentive to be really aggressive with

175
00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,800
Speaker 1: the marks. And we've never believed whether it's a VC fund,

176
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,040
Speaker 1: a private equity fund, a BBC, we've never believed that

177
00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:59,040
Speaker 1: across the board these marks are genuine marks or really

178
00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,680
Speaker 1: you know, good fit eighth expressions the values of the

179
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,400
Speaker 1: underlying assets, So yeah, that could be interesting.

180
00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, there's plenty of capital flowing in.

181
00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,240
Speaker 4: We know that, especially from retail now, which is a

182
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,280
Speaker 4: new buyer base. I do want to go around the

183
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,079
Speaker 4: world and I want to talk a little bit about China.

184
00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 4: Of course, your views on China are well known, but

185
00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,280
Speaker 4: you've seen this chorus of cell side analysts come out

186
00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,000
Speaker 4: and talk about China in a bullish light. You think

187
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,160
Speaker 4: about City just this week downgrading US stocks, saying to

188
00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,559
Speaker 4: basically upgrade and buy China.

189
00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,040
Speaker 5: I'm just wondering what you make of that in this cycle.

190
00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,960
Speaker 1: Well, everybody's got to sell a growth narrative, right, so,

191
00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,719
Speaker 1: you know, China's been this. I mean, there's so much

192
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,760
Speaker 1: muscle memory, you know, for the past couple decades of

193
00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,120
Speaker 1: selling the China growth narrative that I'm not surprised everybody's

194
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,839
Speaker 1: going back to that and they're willing to forget all

195
00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,200
Speaker 1: of the political risk that Chijinping presents and how he's

196
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,760
Speaker 1: basically zeroed out. You know, several classes of public company

197
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,199
Speaker 1: shares in the past, such as for profit education, are

198
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,480
Speaker 1: close to zero did out. Look, it's you know, China

199
00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 1: is a trade, it's not an investment. You date China.

200
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,440
Speaker 1: You don't marry China, like I get it. If from

201
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:12,160
Speaker 1: a tactical perspective you want to allocate money there, fine,

202
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,600
Speaker 1: but I but that's the kind of place you wake

203
00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,680
Speaker 1: up one morning and you know they invaded Taiwan and

204
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,360
Speaker 1: maybe the US is going to war over that, and

205
00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,640
Speaker 1: you know, basically you don't want to be long anything

206
00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,360
Speaker 1: China related at that point in time. So I think

207
00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,400
Speaker 1: everybody who's rushing in headlong needs to be aware of

208
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,040
Speaker 1: those risks and needs to have eyes wide open. This

209
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,720
Speaker 1: is not China is not marriage material.

210
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:40,320
Speaker 6: Carson, you married Vietnam. You're I guess considering an engagement

211
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:41,839
Speaker 6: with India.

212
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:43,800
Speaker 3: I want to talk about your longs.

213
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:49,000
Speaker 6: You mentioned the possibility of war, which seems more likely

214
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,960
Speaker 6: now than it has in decades. I mean, we're seeing

215
00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,280
Speaker 6: a war in the eastern theater of Europe, and Ryan

216
00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,000
Speaker 6: Mattu came out this morning and said they see defense

217
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,640
Speaker 6: sales surging forty percent on the European spending boom that's expected.

218
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:06,800
Speaker 6: Is that you think one of the most important long

219
00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,720
Speaker 6: threads for investors to pay attention.

220
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,800
Speaker 1: To European defense spending well in general, war, you know,

221
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 1: I mean spending around the worldely. Well, look from from

222
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,679
Speaker 1: a defense spending perspective, that's you know that that one's

223
00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,319
Speaker 1: above my pay grade. But the geopolitical risks and the

224
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:31,160
Speaker 1: risks of war absolutely, you know, I don't know that

225
00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,280
Speaker 1: Russia is in a position to make further moves in

226
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,120
Speaker 1: Europe in the next few years. But you know, what

227
00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,600
Speaker 1: we're doing with Ukraine and basically rewarding Russia, I think

228
00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:42,559
Speaker 1: that leaves a.

229
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,880
Speaker 3: Lot of powder in that powder keg.

230
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,920
Speaker 1: Obviously, the situation with Taiwan, I don't know that we're

231
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,960
Speaker 1: doing anything right now to dissuade Chinese aggression against Taiwan.

232
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,160
Speaker 1: You know, Iran has been I think beaten back nicely

233
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,040
Speaker 1: by the Israelis recently, but they're probably not going to

234
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,000
Speaker 1: go quietly into that good night. So yeah, this is

235
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,520
Speaker 1: a world that has a lot of risks of real

236
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, of expansion of kinetic war. So you know,

237
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,440
Speaker 1: and in valuations just generally don't seem to recognize that

238
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,200
Speaker 1: because risk is massively underpriced, as it has been since

239
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:19,760
Speaker 1: the GFC.

240
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,280
Speaker 4: Carson, I'm devastated to say, if we have to leave

241
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:24,360
Speaker 4: it there, I hope to speak to.

242
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 5: You again soon.

243
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,640
Speaker 4: Really enjoyed this conversation. Hope to see you in studio

244
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,520
Speaker 4: next time too. That is Carson Block of Muddy Waters

245
00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:30,920
Speaker 4: Capital