Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg business Week inside from the reporters and
Speaker 1: editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus
Speaker 1: global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, Welcome to the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week.
Speaker 2: Carol Masser, along with Matt Miller in for Tim. Earnings
Speaker 2: kicked into full gear this week. Banks, Airlines, Tesla, Netflix,
Speaker 2: and a lot more. WW, the company formerly known as
Speaker 2: Weight Watchers, reports early next month, and investors will be
Speaker 2: watching out for more on what some say is the
Speaker 2: company's big gamble. That is our cover story this week.
Speaker 2: More in a moment. Also ahead, the gaping hole in
Speaker 2: the FDA supervision of over the counter medicines that killed
Speaker 2: Americans and then a buddy of Elon Musks that could
Speaker 2: have been put out of business thanks to Musk's massive
Speaker 2: price cuts. And speaking of Elon, we're going to speak
Speaker 2: with ARC investors, would on, Tesla, Twitter, threads, Coinbase, Bitcoin,
Speaker 2: and a lot more. All of that to come. We
Speaker 2: begin with this week's cover story on WW and it's
Speaker 2: high hopes for trendy obesity drugs. In fact, the company CEO,
Speaker 2: Sema Sistani, discussed the move with our Bloomberg TV colleagues
Speaker 2: this week.
Speaker 3: What stood out most is that obesity is a chronic condition.
Speaker 3: It still hasn't been addressed truly in that matter, when
Speaker 3: in fact, for over ten years it's been scientifically recognized
Speaker 3: as a chronic condition, and so we wanted to enter
Speaker 3: the space and be able to extend our toolkit to
Speaker 3: not only behavior change and functional but also clinical interventions.
Speaker 2: That's the CEO of ww Cimasstani all in on new
Speaker 2: medications to combat obesity. She's betting that new products such
Speaker 2: as ozembic and we goo v can help lift the
Speaker 2: sixty year old company to new heights if they don't
Speaker 2: kill it first. With more return to the team of
Speaker 2: Bloomberg News healthcare reporter Emma Court and Startups reporter Ellen Hewitt,
Speaker 2: also with us Bloomberg Business Week editor Jill Weber.
Speaker 4: So, Weight Watchers ended up essentially acquiring this telemedicine company
Speaker 4: that prescribes these medications. And one of the really interesting
Speaker 4: things that I think Ellen and I kind of honed
Speaker 4: in on in our story was the sort of backlash
Speaker 4: that this sparked among members, right, like weight Watchers has
Speaker 4: this enviable community, this enviable fan base. Right there are
Speaker 4: weight Watchers fans who have been on and off this
Speaker 4: program for their whole lives. And they were saying, wait
Speaker 4: a second, this is not what weight Watchers stands for.
Speaker 4: Weight Watchers stands for making changes to your lifestyle. What's
Speaker 4: this shot you're talking about? And so we tried to
Speaker 4: sort of tell this story of, you know, the new CEO,
Speaker 4: Sema Sistani, who's a sort of classic Silicon Valley type
Speaker 4: who comes in leads this vague acquisition, and about the
Speaker 4: way members are responding to it, and some of the
Speaker 4: big questions too about sort of what does this mean
Speaker 4: for this business model? Is this gonna work?
Speaker 5: So Ellen bring in a little bit of the Sema backstory.
Speaker 5: Who is she and what's been her approach?
Speaker 6: Yeah, she has a really interesting resume. She's you know,
Speaker 6: she had worked at CIA, she worked at Tumblr and
Speaker 6: Yahoo in the time that Yahoo was buying Tumblr, and
Speaker 6: then she's most known in Silicon Valley. Actually remember meeting
Speaker 6: her five or six years ago in this role in
Speaker 6: which she had co founded this very buzzy group video
Speaker 6: chat app called House Party. It's kind of in the
Speaker 6: era before group FaceTime that was really popular with college
Speaker 6: students and gamers who were interested in chatting while they
Speaker 6: played games. And so house Party was eventually sold to
Speaker 6: Epic and its service became integrated and part of Fortnite,
Speaker 6: and then Epic shut down house Party the service, as
Speaker 6: you know, a couple of years ago, and Sema had
Speaker 6: stayed there as an executive at Epic for a while,
Speaker 6: and then when she left that role, her next role
Speaker 6: was you know, she kind of phased out at Epic
Speaker 6: and then it took this job at weight Watchers, and
Speaker 6: I think what's so interesting about her, and something that
Speaker 6: came up when em and I were reporting the story
Speaker 6: is how much she's angling herself as like taking this
Speaker 6: very bold bet. Like when they talked about this decision
Speaker 6: to go into weight loss drugs, they talked about how
Speaker 6: it pulled very well with people who had never tried
Speaker 6: weight Watchers and people who had tried weight Watchers but lapsed,
Speaker 6: but it did not pull well with their current customers,
Speaker 6: many of whom, as Emma described, were feeling emotionally, I think,
Speaker 6: quite betrayed by the move. You know, Joel, as you said,
Speaker 6: it's weight loss is a really emotional thing. It's very personal,
Speaker 6: it's very intimate. It's very emotionally hot.
Speaker 7: I mean, especially if you go at it the way
Speaker 7: weight Watchers people do, right, they go to meetings and
Speaker 7: it works, but you've you have to stay in it
Speaker 7: for like ever, right, So it's kind of a I
Speaker 7: don't want to say it's a cult, but it's like
Speaker 7: you work at it well and you spend right, it's
Speaker 7: a community. But with ozempic you don't spend time. You
Speaker 7: don't have a community, and you don't work at it.
Speaker 7: You just give your shelve a shot every week.
Speaker 5: A billionaire named Elon Mustard.
Speaker 7: So I don't understand. And this is what Carol and
Speaker 7: I were talking about. How is that a good business model?
Speaker 7: There's one hundred places I can get a zepic.
Speaker 4: Well, if I'm a health reporter. Here the weight Watchers line,
Speaker 4: the company line here is Look, these are drugs that
Speaker 4: are supposed to be used alongside lifestyle change. Like this
Speaker 4: doesn't make the weight Watchers model defunct. And they're telling right,
Speaker 4: you are supposed to take these drugs and change the
Speaker 4: weight you eat and exercise and do all this stuff
Speaker 4: because when you lose weight, you can lose muscle, you
Speaker 4: could run nutritional deficits, like there are other things involved
Speaker 4: than just weight in your health obviously, So that's the
Speaker 4: company line. I think, you know, at a philosophical level, though,
Speaker 4: you're talking about. The thing that excites people about ozempic
Speaker 4: is not oh, I want to get on ozempic and
Speaker 4: change my diet, right, Like, people don't get excited about that.
Speaker 4: People get excited because it feels like a magic pill
Speaker 4: or a shot in this case. Right, people are excited because,
Speaker 4: oh my god, maybe I don't have to like sweat
Speaker 4: it out and go to my weight watchers meetings and
Speaker 4: count my points, like maybe I can just lose lose
Speaker 4: weight magically, you know.
Speaker 7: Well, and by the way, people I know who use ozempic,
Speaker 7: that's exactly how it works. I know people who change
Speaker 7: their lifestyle zero percent. They use ozepic and they look
Speaker 7: a million times better. So I'm not saying they're not
Speaker 7: going to die of cancer twenty years in the future.
Speaker 7: I have no idea what side effects it's going to have,
Speaker 7: but it seems like a magic shot.
Speaker 6: I was going to say that, you know, Emma had
Speaker 6: interviewed this woman who who took you know, had been
Speaker 6: a weight Watcher's customer and actually became a Sequence customer
Speaker 6: as well. That's the company that weight Watchers are acquired.
Speaker 6: And she did go on some of these weight loss
Speaker 6: drugs and what was so interesting and she's the end
Speaker 6: of our story. She talks about how that sense of community,
Speaker 6: which as we all know, weight Watchers really managed to
Speaker 6: monetize quite well. She was finding that sense of community
Speaker 6: on TikTok. It was like trading tips with other users
Speaker 6: who are sharing what it's like to go on ozembic
Speaker 6: or manjar or goovi. And and she's finding that community elsewhere,
Speaker 6: which I thought was an interesting like example kind of
Speaker 6: our digital age.
Speaker 4: That's my weight Watchers meeting.
Speaker 2: Go back to WeightWatchers. So are they getting rid of
Speaker 2: all the meetings? Are they shutting down?
Speaker 4: Weight Watchers will still have meetings, they're you know, in
Speaker 4: person meetings, and then they're doing online meetings now, but
Speaker 4: they have fewer in person meetings now obviously. And then
Speaker 4: they're also still doing the points thing. And I think
Speaker 4: they want to get people on ozempic on like a
Speaker 4: new program that will like help people with ozembic do
Speaker 4: their like diet and lifestyle thing.
Speaker 5: Okay, so let's talk about the money, because there have
Speaker 5: been really interesting investors in weight Watchers over time. What's
Speaker 5: been going down? What were the ones that jumped down?
Speaker 2: You'll get an ozempic, you get an yeah, I would
Speaker 2: I would really kill to know what Oprah thinks about
Speaker 2: the ozembic, but we didn't get very far on that.
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, she's still an investor though, right, Oprah, if you're
Speaker 4: out there, call me.
Speaker 2: But she still owns shares.
Speaker 4: She's still owns shares, though she's reduced her steak in
Speaker 4: the recent years, and she is still on the board
Speaker 4: as of now. But yeah, So, way Watchers has gone
Speaker 4: through all kinds of iterations over the years. It was
Speaker 4: owned at one point by the ketchup making company Hines.
Speaker 4: It was taken private by a group called Artel that
Speaker 4: was until recently its largest shareholder. They actually exited earlier
Speaker 4: this year, which kind of raises some questions too about
Speaker 4: you know, a company, a stakeholder that's been in the
Speaker 4: game since nineteen eighty nine exiting when you have this
Speaker 4: big acquisition.
Speaker 7: They also.
Speaker 4: They yeah, so that's that's been kind of a series
Speaker 4: of different weight Watchers chapters and of course, Oprah came
Speaker 4: on board in about twenty fifteen and purchased a ten percent.
Speaker 5: Steak Hallmark BusinessWeek story under Joel Weber. In my opinion,
Speaker 5: because look, you have a story brand that is being
Speaker 5: disrupted by some force, right, what's the brand going to
Speaker 5: do about it? And you know, say what you want, Matt,
Speaker 5: but like there's this force out there and you can
Speaker 5: either stay with the ways that you've always been doing
Speaker 5: it or you can attempt to find a way to
Speaker 5: address it. And if you don't address it, what do
Speaker 5: you got then?
Speaker 8: And you know, look, look like she makes that point
Speaker 8: as well, talking about one business that definitely saw another
Speaker 8: one coming right in the story.
Speaker 5: And look like Kodak had digital cameras. You know, like
Speaker 5: this is an example of a type of story. And
Speaker 5: usually we talk about this in a world where there's
Speaker 5: a technology company. But what interests me, especially about this
Speaker 5: category of drug now is you know, this is pharma
Speaker 5: and like pharma, we have loved to villainize pharma, like
Speaker 5: Zima will tell you. I mean, like this is an
Speaker 5: industry that, like pre covid, it was like everybody's least favorite,
Speaker 5: and they've got a little momentum here post COVID, saving
Speaker 5: a bunch of lives. And now it's like, hey, by
Speaker 5: the way, there's this thing that might make you, you know,
Speaker 5: lose that beer belly.
Speaker 4: But it only there a month.
Speaker 7: That's for the dollars a month.
Speaker 5: Well, and look click, there are people here with obesity
Speaker 5: and we have not as a society really talked about that.
Speaker 5: And this is a wonder drug.
Speaker 2: Our thanks to Bloomberg News healthcare reporter Emma Cord and
Speaker 2: startups reporter Ellen Hewitt. They co wrote this week's cover story,
Speaker 2: Joe Weber sticking around for our next segment Coming up,
Speaker 2: our magazine team investigates how a deadly antibiotic resistant superbug
Speaker 2: slip past the FDA inside small fials of generic eye drops.
Speaker 9: Two brands of artificial tiers have been linked by the
Speaker 9: CDC to the superbug, drug resistant superbug that's.
Speaker 10: Never been seen before in the US.
Speaker 2: That FDA miss led to blindness and deaths, and you
Speaker 2: likely pass the product on a store shelf. More on
Speaker 2: this story when we come back. You're listening to Bloomberg
Speaker 2: Business Week. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 11: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg
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Speaker 2: All right, everybody, wait until you hear this next story.
Speaker 2: You may never go into a drugstore again. It's about
Speaker 2: the untested bacteria tainted eye drops that blinded and killed Americans,
Speaker 2: and it all happened to slip by the FDA. The
Speaker 2: story was among our most read this past week. It
Speaker 2: was also a Bloomberg Big Take. It is also featured
Speaker 2: in this week's issue at Bloomberg BusinessWeek, available now on newstands,
Speaker 2: online at Bloomberg dot com, Slash BusinessWeek, and of course
Speaker 2: always on the Bloomberg terminal. Bloomberg News Projects and Investigations
Speaker 2: reporter Peter Robison co wrote the piece. He and Bloomberg
Speaker 2: BusinessWeek editor Joel Weber joined me and Matt Miller with more.
Speaker 5: So little of the stuff that comes from abroad and
Speaker 5: ends up being sold as medicine is actually no one's
Speaker 5: actually checking anything. So Peter, walk us through what you
Speaker 5: learned about this particular instance, which is incredibly frightening.
Speaker 10: Well you summed it up really well.
Speaker 9: What's happened is that a system that the FDA designed
Speaker 9: fifty years ago for the domestic market hasn't kept pace
Speaker 9: with an international market where really all comers can enter.
Speaker 9: And what we found is that the FDA's requirements through
Speaker 9: the OTC system are generally very broad. They really are
Speaker 9: just a recipe book that says, you know, these are the.
Speaker 10: Improved ingredients you can use.
Speaker 9: And the assumption has been that OTC products are generally safe.
Speaker 9: Even if those don't meet the requirements, they probably won't
Speaker 9: kill anyone. But but what happened in this case is
Speaker 9: that a very small manufacturer in India that had never
Speaker 9: sold sterile medicines before in the US produced an eye
Speaker 9: drop that contained bacterial contamination that hasn't been definitively identified
Speaker 9: by the FDA as pseudamonis.
Speaker 10: But it has been tied.
Speaker 9: Two brands of artificial tiers have been linked by the
Speaker 9: CDC to the superbug drug the superbug that's never been
Speaker 9: seen before in the US.
Speaker 7: So what was the problem. I mean, I see that
Speaker 7: these eye drops were marketed as preservative free, and for
Speaker 7: some reason, I guess people want their eye drops not
Speaker 7: to have preservatives. I don't get that, But is that
Speaker 7: what allowed this bug to survive.
Speaker 9: The manufacturers I've talked to say that preservative free is
Speaker 9: actually a trend in eye drops because if people are
Speaker 9: using them consistently, the preservative is actually a toxin. So
Speaker 9: the established manufacturers have come up with a couple of
Speaker 9: ways to sell preservative free drops. One is to use
Speaker 9: single use files and the other is these, you know,
Speaker 9: specially produced bottles that have a valve to prevent contamination.
Speaker 10: But those both cost a lot more.
Speaker 9: And in this case, these eye drops were marketed as
Speaker 9: preservative free, but they came in in regular bottles, and
Speaker 9: that was something, as we explained in the story, was
Speaker 9: not caught during the listing process by the FDA because
Speaker 9: it is this the largely automated system that conforms to
Speaker 9: a recipe book set down decades ago.
Speaker 7: I wonder also about the country of origin. There was
Speaker 7: a big take story about poisoned cough syrup that was
Speaker 7: killing kids in Africa, and the cough syrup was made
Speaker 7: in an Indian factory where oversight was virtually nil. In fact,
Speaker 7: when whistleblowers you know, called officials to other factories that
Speaker 7: were making medicines there, they decided not even to look this.
Speaker 7: These eye drops were also made in India. Is that
Speaker 7: part of the problem.
Speaker 9: It is in India just causes self pharmacy to the world.
Speaker 9: It's it's producing, you know, one fifth of the world's
Speaker 9: shnari drugs, adding increasing share of manufacturing is based there.
Speaker 9: But at the same time, India has had repeated problems
Speaker 9: with quality and there have been multiple, multiple inspection reports
Speaker 9: showing very hair raising problems. And when the FDA did
Speaker 9: finally get to this factory after the eye drops were recalled,
Speaker 9: the list of deficiencies ran fourteen pages. And it was
Speaker 9: you know, not testing the filters to ensure that they
Speaker 9: could sterilize you know, these eye drops. It was workers
Speaker 9: wearing you know, sort of dirty re used booties, the
Speaker 9: clean room, you know, having nail holes and sealant when
Speaker 9: it's supposed to be this incredibly sterile room where even
Speaker 9: the airflow is unidirectional. So that is a problem, and
Speaker 9: that's another thing that the FDA has to wrestle with.
Speaker 2: But Peter, this is where I have a hard time.
Speaker 2: I mean, and in your story that these over the
Speaker 2: counter medicines are sold on the outer system, what does
Speaker 2: that even mean? And I'm thinking baby aspirin cold medicines,
Speaker 2: all kinds of air, you know, eye care, stomach ailments.
Speaker 2: Is all of this stuff not? Is there no oversight
Speaker 2: or what is the oversight?
Speaker 9: The oversight is, as the FDA describes it, risk based,
Speaker 9: and it's often after problems are found. So in our
Speaker 9: reporting it's it's not just this company in India. There
Speaker 9: was a there's a manufacturer in Phoenix that the f
Speaker 9: D a of eydrops that the FDA went into and
Speaker 9: this manufacturer said that they weren't aware that eye drops.
Speaker 10: Were supposed to be produced sterile.
Speaker 9: So, as it's been described by some people we talked to,
Speaker 9: the FDA has strayed from his fundamental emission of guaranteeing
Speaker 9: that that what's supposed to be in.
Speaker 10: The bottle is actually in the bottle.
Speaker 9: That if if we wanted to be assured, we should
Speaker 9: be testing lots of drugs as they enter the country.
Speaker 5: Peter, I'm curious, since you started working on this story,
Speaker 5: which is thorough, and you've been been working on this
Speaker 5: for months, what's it like to go to the drug store.
Speaker 9: I that's a really good question, and I have I
Speaker 9: look more carefully at the box and I don't go
Speaker 9: for deals, you know, I think that you just have
Speaker 9: to be very careful in this environment. And so I
Speaker 9: do look very carefully and if someone hands me and
Speaker 9: I drop at it anyway says try this.
Speaker 10: I'm gonna do my due diligence to give you.
Speaker 5: A sense of of how scary this can get. Peter like,
Speaker 5: walk us through. You talked to a couple of people
Speaker 5: in the story who are also alarmed at what they've
Speaker 5: found on shelves and talk to us about what they've done.
Speaker 10: Yeah.
Speaker 9: This this is it's a nonprofit based out here in Seattle,
Speaker 9: and it's called the Dry Eye Foundation.
Speaker 10: And they had because there were.
Speaker 5: So many like us, Matt with dry eyes, there's a
Speaker 5: foundation for us.
Speaker 7: I mean, sometimes my eyes get red, so I need
Speaker 7: a different foundation.
Speaker 9: It is National dry Eye Awareness Month this month also.
Speaker 9: But so this this foundation had been getting concerned because
Speaker 9: they had found drops that were listed through the OTC
Speaker 9: system that they found did not they were not what
Speaker 9: they claimed to be that they claimed, you know, all
Speaker 9: sorts of miraculous benefits, but they seemed to just contain
Speaker 9: glycerine and who knows what else. And they were also
Speaker 9: not packaged in any of these specially designed bottles. So
Speaker 9: they really started trying to engage with the FDA, and
Speaker 9: just as we laid out in this story that this
Speaker 9: nonprofit became concerned about how easy it is to gain
Speaker 9: the electronic listing system, so they made up their own
Speaker 9: eye drops. They created a company, an LLC, They got
Speaker 9: a business identifier that the FDA requires to list drugs,
Speaker 9: and they created a listing for something called Mermaid Tears,
Speaker 9: which they said would on the label, which looks like
Speaker 9: a very official label, seems to conform to all the
Speaker 9: FDA's guidelines, but it says it will like to see
Speaker 9: like a mermaid underwater if you swallow. It has an
Speaker 9: aquarium for help, and also declares very clearly, this is
Speaker 9: a non preserved eye drop in an improperly designed bottle.
Speaker 10: Do not allow this to touch your eyes approof.
Speaker 9: And that's listing right. That listing sailed directly through the
Speaker 9: FDA system.
Speaker 2: That was Bloomberg News Projects and Investigations reporter Peter Robison
Speaker 2: along with the editor Bloomberg BusinessWeek, Joel Weber. More of
Speaker 2: that conversation available on our podcast feed Still Ahead on
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business Week. Luckheed Martin making news this past week
Speaker 2: relating to its massive and much delayed F thirty five
Speaker 2: fighter jet program. We have the inside story of the
Speaker 2: so called lightning tube.
Speaker 12: So they not only did was it moving into the
Speaker 12: spelt regime, it was also moving into the highly integrated
Speaker 12: sensors and the information the information age in the battle space,
Speaker 12: so to speak.
Speaker 2: The promise and the problems with one of the world's
Speaker 2: most advanced aircraft. That's next. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio,
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app and YouTube. You can also listen
Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,
Speaker 1: Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2: Lucky Martin reporting earnings this past week, raising its full
Speaker 2: year outlook, signaling a return to sales growth after battling
Speaker 2: supplier disruptions at crimped deliveries of some of its biggest
Speaker 2: weapons programs. That includes delays on the F thirty five
Speaker 2: fighter jet due to problems with a critical software upgrade.
Speaker 2: As a result, Bloomberg reported the Pentagon will withhold back
Speaker 2: ten percent of the jets price until the contractor demonstrates
Speaker 2: that the new software works properly, potentially delaying more than
Speaker 2: four hundred million dollars in payments through December. There is
Speaker 2: a new book out about the massive fighter jet program
Speaker 2: entitled F thirty five, The Inside Story of the Lightning Two.
Speaker 2: Its lead authors are Tom Burbage and Betsy Clark. Betsy's
Speaker 2: a director at the Independent Project Review Institute, and she
Speaker 2: participated in a US Department of Defense review of the
Speaker 2: F thirty five program. Tom he is a former general
Speaker 2: manager at Lockheed. They joined us to shed some light
Speaker 2: on the most expensive weapon in history.
Speaker 12: It was one that reshaped the aerospace industry. If you
Speaker 12: recalled back about twenty years ago, there was a number
Speaker 12: of major prime contractors and they were all teamed and
Speaker 12: competing for the project, and the winners was clearly realigned
Speaker 12: the industry going forward. And that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 7: So, how difficult was this to work with so many
Speaker 7: different countries, so many different you know, cooks in the kitchen.
Speaker 7: Was that something that caused major delays and you know,
Speaker 7: made the project more expensive?
Speaker 12: No, Actually, the concept was quite simple. You know, in
Speaker 12: the past, we'd had single service initiatives to develop airplanes
Speaker 12: that were unique to the single service missions. But the
Speaker 12: reality was that we don't fight wars that way, and
Speaker 12: the joint Command structure was set up and we basically
Speaker 12: fight as a three service entity. Unfortunately, none of the
Speaker 12: three services operated interoperably or with the same type of aircraft.
Speaker 12: And then we went to the you know, the nine
Speaker 12: one one activity where we formed the Coalition of the
Speaker 12: Willing and we were fighting with our allies. So we
Speaker 12: had the US, all three services and allies all combined
Speaker 12: as a group, but a wide variety of aircrafts and
Speaker 12: capabilities that were difficult to operate as a unit. So
Speaker 12: the concept sort of emerged out of that. It was
Speaker 12: that could we in fact develop the platform where the
Speaker 12: service requirements for operational capability were independent of the capabilities
Speaker 12: of the platform and the allies could join with us
Speaker 12: those that fly and fight with our aircraft in the past.
Speaker 12: So that was the concept behind the five and that's
Speaker 12: a huge leveraging opportunity if you think about it, because
Speaker 12: it doesn't matter where you come from, whether it's one
Speaker 12: of the Allied countries or a long runway or a
Speaker 12: ship at sea. Once you get together, you're all in
Speaker 12: the same airplane.
Speaker 2: Tell us about this vehicle though, this fighter jet, what
Speaker 2: it's like. I mean, there's a lot of technology, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of mechanics. It's like pretty incredible. Talk to
Speaker 2: us about it. You're a pilot as well.
Speaker 12: Well. The point you Raptor was designed basically ten years
Speaker 12: The designed Bridgeon was ten years prior to the F
Speaker 12: thirty five, and in that ten year evolution, a lot
Speaker 12: of technologies were developed, a lot of computer processing capability
Speaker 12: was advanced, and we were able to put a whole
Speaker 12: different set of requirements into the F thirty five. Government
Speaker 12: establishes the requirements by looking at what they think the
Speaker 12: future is going to require need. And basically, if you
Speaker 12: were in an F thirty five and you were looking
Speaker 12: at the screen in front of you, you would be looking
Speaker 12: at a at a movie of what's going on around
Speaker 12: you. You wouldn't be looking at a bunch of individual dials
Speaker 12: and trying to integrate them in your head. So one
Speaker 12: of the great advantages from a software standpoint was the
Speaker 12: ability to fuse all the various sensors in the F
Speaker 12: thirty five and present one coherent fixture to the pilot
Speaker 12: and the information that comes from that can be shared
Speaker 12: across multiple domains, not just aircraft but others. So they
Speaker 12: not only did was it moving into the stealth regime,
Speaker 12: it was also moving into the highly integrated sensors and
Speaker 12: the information it's the information age in the battlespace, so
Speaker 12: to speak.
Speaker 7: Let's go to Betsy Clark and ask her for her take.
Speaker 2: Betsy, we should just point out she's director at the
Speaker 2: Independent Project Review Institute. They participated in a US Department
Speaker 2: Defense review of the F thirty five program.
Speaker 7: As I understand it, Betsy, what you came up with
Speaker 7: the idea because this project was highly criticized to document
Speaker 7: the whole process, and initially didn't you want to just
Speaker 7: put out a paper that turned into a book?
Speaker 13: Yes, yes, that's right. So actually my first review of
Speaker 13: the thirty five program was for the US Department of Defense.
Speaker 13: I did several of those, and then I've done a
Speaker 13: number of reviews for Australia. And what I noticed over time,
Speaker 13: if you read the headlines on the program, it sounded
Speaker 13: like a disaster. All you would hear about is cost, overruns,
Speaker 13: trouble plague programs. And yet I did eight different reviews
Speaker 13: over time, and I could see what was happening on
Speaker 13: the program in Fort Worth, and I just felt that
Speaker 13: there's not, first of all, an understanding of the extreme
Speaker 13: complexity of this program in terms of the technology, in
Speaker 13: terms of the stakeholder management. There were nine partner countries,
Speaker 13: and so I just felt there needed to be a
Speaker 13: book that really went into how complex this program is
Speaker 13: and the amazing accomplishments that were being done. Was it
Speaker 13: done perfectly? No, there were missteps. There was you know,
Speaker 13: whenever you have a lot of new technologies, et cetera,
Speaker 13: they're going to be But it just seemed like a
Speaker 13: basic unfairness to me, and so that is how the
Speaker 13: book started.
Speaker 2: So Betsy get into some of the struggles, the cyber attacks.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can only imagine the cyber attax on
Speaker 2: a program like this.
Speaker 13: Yeah, certainly you would have the Russians, you would have
Speaker 13: the Chinese, I think the North Koreans. They've all worked
Speaker 13: on trying to hack into the program. So that was certainly,
Speaker 13: you know, it's very classified secure, so that that was
Speaker 13: all going on because they all really want to know
Speaker 13: more about it. So yeah, that was that was certainly.
Speaker 7: How do you keep them from doing that? I mean,
Speaker 7: when you've got nine partner countries. You know, surely somebody
Speaker 7: has a week attache.
Speaker 2: Tom, What was that like?
Speaker 14: Tom?
Speaker 2: What was that like? You guys working on this project.
Speaker 2: I can only imagine the clearance.
Speaker 12: Well, there's classified areas on their project and some very
Speaker 12: classified in some unclassified, so there's quite a spectrum, and
Speaker 12: the international partners are all closest allies, at least the
Speaker 12: first batch were, and then the second batch are now
Speaker 12: occurring through the foreign military sales process. But the fundamental
Speaker 12: initial partners all flying fight with the United States as
Speaker 12: a joint coalition force. They've operated our airplanes and the
Speaker 12: best of our airplanes for a long time, so joining
Speaker 12: the project was part of their national objective. They all
Speaker 12: participated in funding the development of the program, so in
Speaker 12: return for that, they were allowed to participate industrially where
Speaker 12: they could compete on the best avalue basis. You know,
Speaker 12: it's all taking place with several different layers of security.
Speaker 12: The very classified areas are of course closed to US
Speaker 12: only and are very compartmented and protected from any kind
Speaker 12: of cyber activity. And then it goes down to building
Speaker 12: metal parks for the airplane, which all the different countries
Speaker 12: can certainly participate in.
Speaker 7: Betsy, who gets to use these? Which countries?
Speaker 10: Is?
Speaker 7: Do all members of NATO get some who put in orders?
Speaker 7: And have we lost to other yet?
Speaker 13: Yeah? No, no. So the way this is Turkey is
Speaker 13: the only one that was basically outed of the program
Speaker 13: because when they bought the Russian I think it was
Speaker 13: the s S four four hundred your defense system that
Speaker 13: became a whole State Department thing. But the others have
Speaker 13: stayed in and so right from the beginning, this plane
Speaker 13: was set up for Allied joint warfare, so it was
Speaker 13: to fight with our partners. So a big part of
Speaker 13: it is sharing information across our allied partners and then
Speaker 13: also across our services, so the US Air Force, the Marines,
Speaker 13: and the Navy, and I'm sure Tom we talked about
Speaker 13: the different variants they can do that. And that's really
Speaker 13: the power of it because we have not fought any
Speaker 13: combat alone since I believe World War One. You know,
Speaker 13: it's the way that we do combat now and to
Speaker 13: share information and everything, and this aircraft was designed right
Speaker 13: from the beginning to be able to do that, and
Speaker 13: that is so so powerful and so we have not
Speaker 13: I believe right now, there's nineteen different countries that have
Speaker 13: signed up to get the F thirty five. So it's
Speaker 13: the NATO countries, it is the Asia Pacific countries, very
Speaker 13: strong coalitions. It's really changing the way we do combat now.
Speaker 2: Our thanks to Tom Burbage and Betsy Clark for catching
Speaker 2: up with me and Matt Miller. Head over to our
Speaker 2: podcast feed for the comp conversation, and you can check
Speaker 2: out the book again. The title F thirty five The
Speaker 2: Inside Story of the Lightning Tube. It is out now.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Up next, how a
Speaker 2: slew of price cuts among electric vehicle makers nearly put
Speaker 2: a friend of Elon Musk's out of business.
Speaker 10: This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen.
Speaker 11: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg
Speaker 11: Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Another story that was recently a most read on the
Speaker 2: terminal comes to us from Bloomberg News EV reporter Sean o'caine.
Speaker 2: The story profiled a friend of Elon Musk's. He's named
Speaker 2: Scott Painter, well known in the auto industry. The serial entrepreneur,
Speaker 2: founded the auto fintech startup Fair, the auto pricing service
Speaker 2: True Car, and the auto shopping portal Cars Direct. Painter
Speaker 2: is also the founder of Autonomy, a subscription car service
Speaker 2: offering up Tesla's and Chevy Bolts, and he himself got
Speaker 2: a jolt when Elon started slashing the prices of Tesla's.
Speaker 2: Matt Miller and I asked Scott what the EV market's
Speaker 2: fast changing dynamics mean for his business.
Speaker 15: In reality, this shift didn't represent a real change in
Speaker 15: the value of the assets that we owned, but it
Speaker 15: did represent a real shock to how our lenders thought
Speaker 15: about it. And today, on the other side of that,
Speaker 15: we're much more prepared. We're a much more durable business.
Speaker 15: We do anticipate that Tesla is not going to be
Speaker 15: the only one that's going to be discounting and up
Speaker 15: and until this time, everybody who's entered the EV market
Speaker 15: has enjoyed wait lists. It's clear that consumers want to
Speaker 15: drive electric cars, but up and until now, most OEMs
Speaker 15: felt they would never have to entertain a discounting type strategy.
Speaker 15: And given that Tesla's gone there, what we're seeing with
Speaker 15: all of the other new entrants from Rivian, Lucid, Fisker, Polestar,
Speaker 15: even new foreign entrants like VinFast and BYD are all
Speaker 15: thinking about what is their fleet policy going to look
Speaker 15: like and what is their discounting strategy. But we're also
Speaker 15: really confronted with this new sort of reality with the
Speaker 15: Inflation Reduction Act. The federal government is offering seven five
Speaker 15: hundred dollars of additional tax credit, which as a commercial
Speaker 15: buyer we qualify for on every single car. That's not
Speaker 15: the case for traditional consumers.
Speaker 7: So Scott, how do you pass that on to consumers?
Speaker 7: Is it something that you do pass on or is
Speaker 7: it something that you just get to keep as the
Speaker 7: business owner.
Speaker 15: We're about flexible term access, so we're not a rental.
Speaker 15: Rentals typically cost about one hundred dollars a day for
Speaker 15: a Model three. That's three thousand dollars a month. Our
Speaker 15: typical monthly payment is somewhere between five hundred and one
Speaker 15: thousand dollars a month. We are focused on making sure
Speaker 15: that out of pocket we are cheaper than a Tesla
Speaker 15: Model three lease, and we do not come with that commitment.
Speaker 15: We do pass on all of those savings because the
Speaker 15: less we pay for a car, the less we have
Speaker 15: to charge our customers, and so we are not just
Speaker 15: being faced with the Tesla discount, which turns what was
Speaker 15: a forty nine, four hundred dollars car for us to
Speaker 15: buy today, that same vehicle can be purchased for just
Speaker 15: under forty thousand dollars from Tesla. You add to that
Speaker 15: the Inflation Reduction Act tax credit of seven five hundred dollars.
Speaker 15: You're all of a sudden looking at the low thirties.
Speaker 15: The sort of takeaway here is that the name of
Speaker 15: the game is what is our total out of pocket capital?
Speaker 15: Because we buy these cars, we run them for between
Speaker 15: four and eight years, and so if we have less
Speaker 15: money out of pocket, it's a much more efficient business.
Speaker 15: We have a much lower cost of capital, and we
Speaker 15: pay less interest expense, and we can pass all of
Speaker 15: that along.
Speaker 2: Did you have a conversation with Elon though after he
Speaker 2: made his moves? I know you're explaining the dynamics more broadly,
Speaker 2: but have you talked with you about this.
Speaker 15: I've been a long time advisor to Tesla. I've known
Speaker 15: Elon since he first evaluated investing in Tesla and really
Speaker 15: building this business, and so I've been a long time
Speaker 15: proponent of affordability being the key to scaling, And obviously
Speaker 15: it's not just what you pay for the car, it's
Speaker 15: also the monthly payment because because most people who get
Speaker 15: a Tesla do not pay cash for that car, they
Speaker 15: finance that car. Right now, auto lending is almost shut
Speaker 15: down entirely because with rising interest rates, paying ten percent
Speaker 15: interest on a car loan doesn't make any sense, So
Speaker 15: subscriptions and leasings are really going to be the name
Speaker 15: of the game. I believe that Elon does agree with
Speaker 15: the affordability angle, and really the Tesla discounting strategy has
Speaker 15: not been driven by companies like US at all. Of course,
Speaker 15: Tesla made their decision based on wanting to make sure
Speaker 15: that every trim level of the Tesla Model three and
Speaker 15: Model Y qualified for every available incentive, credit, discount or
Speaker 15: rebate available just to make that car more affordable. And
Speaker 15: they've done a brilliant job at doing that. So it
Speaker 15: does represent some headwinds for US, but it also represents
Speaker 15: a real tailwind because it does result in a discount
Speaker 15: and it's created an environment where other OEMs are willing
Speaker 15: to do the same.
Speaker 2: That was Scott Painter, serial entrepreneur and founder of the
Speaker 2: ev subscription service Autonomy. That wraps up the first hour
Speaker 2: of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: Ahead in our next hour, Hallijin Ventures founder Jesse Draper
Speaker 2: on smashing through the glass ceiling in the VC space,
Speaker 2: and Kathy Wood on Crypto elon Musk's plans for a
Speaker 2: super app and AI's potential impact on the labor market.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek. I'm Carol Masser. Stay with us.
Speaker 2: Today's top stories in global business. Headlines are coming up
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio,
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app, and YouTube. You can also listen
Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station
Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2: Welcome back Carol Masser along with Matt Miller in for
Speaker 2: tim plenty Ahead in our second hour of the weekend
Speaker 2: edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including an interview with venture
Speaker 2: capitalist Jesse Draper on her unusual entry into the business
Speaker 2: and how she's finding value in women led and women
Speaker 2: focused startups. In fact, she's sold several of them to
Speaker 2: some very well known companies. First up this hour, another
Speaker 2: investor seeking out the disruptors and innovators of this world.
Speaker 2: We're talking about the founder, CEO, and CIO of ARC
Speaker 2: invest Kathy Wood. Her Arc Innovation ETF is up around
Speaker 2: sixty percent year to date, still down nearly seventy percent
Speaker 2: from a peak back in February twenty twenty one. Matt
Speaker 2: Miller and I caught up with Kathy ahead of Tesla's
Speaker 2: latest earnings to find out where she is putting her
Speaker 2: money and whether the market may be getting a bit
Speaker 2: too exuberant.
Speaker 14: You know, what's interesting is to see funds having nice
Speaker 14: moves and flows not follow I think there's a wall
Speaker 14: of worry up out there. It is about further interest
Speaker 14: rate increases. What's going to break next, It's about a
Speaker 14: hard landing in the context of now China and Europe
Speaker 14: really struggling, and how will that reverberate. So we actually
Speaker 14: think that, and we've been saying this for some time,
Speaker 14: that deflation is the bigger risk out here. And I
Speaker 14: do believe. I just heard your conversation about autos. I
Speaker 14: think we're going to see an unwinding of auto prices.
Speaker 14: That the Ford f one point fifty lightnings price decline
Speaker 14: is going to be the first of many, many auto
Speaker 14: cuts that we'll see. And if you remember, during the
Speaker 14: early stage of COVID and the supply shocks, at one
Speaker 14: point the combination of used cars and new cars accounted
Speaker 14: for a third of the increase in inflation. I think
Speaker 14: you'll see that on the downside here, and we're going
Speaker 14: to get to two percent inflation, I think, much faster
Speaker 14: than many people think, with perhaps a harder landing, more
Speaker 14: for corporate margins than anything else, because if you see
Speaker 14: these discounting and you see consumers respond to discounts, maybe
Speaker 14: real growth kind of. I still think we'll have a
Speaker 14: harder landing, but maybe with price declines will stave that
Speaker 14: off that hard landing.
Speaker 7: For a while, well, we were hearing investors today say
Speaker 7: that inflation is no longer concern number one. Growth is
Speaker 7: really what the market is concerned about now. And so
Speaker 7: you think we're going to have a recession, Kathy.
Speaker 14: Yeah, If you look at real corporate revenue growth, it's
Speaker 14: down one point one percent your over year as of
Speaker 14: that was as of the first quarter. That is consistent
Speaker 14: with gross domestic income down one point one percent. This
Speaker 14: is real gross domestic income down one point one percent.
Speaker 14: You're over year gross domestic income and gross domestic product
Speaker 14: over time equal one another. It's an identity, but the
Speaker 14: information flows are different. And income you get a lot
Speaker 14: from the IRS, a lot of income data. The product data,
Speaker 14: product and service data is a little bit more sampled
Speaker 14: and erratic, but over time, so we could already be
Speaker 14: in that downturn. And the GDP numbers we'll just catch
Speaker 14: up later on.
Speaker 7: What about the inflation numbers. I mean, we come down
Speaker 7: over the last year from nine point one percent CPI
Speaker 7: to three that's pretty quick. And you know, I've talked
Speaker 7: to you a couple of times in the last couple
Speaker 7: of years and you've mentioned a concern about deflation rather
Speaker 7: than inflation. Do you think we're going to start to
Speaker 7: see that coming as we see it in other major economies,
Speaker 7: most notably China.
Speaker 14: Yes, it's very interesting. The Chinese deflation prices are down
Speaker 14: according to the PPI five point four percent year over year,
Speaker 14: and I do believe they are going to export it
Speaker 14: over time. So yes, we do think we're going to
Speaker 14: see price deflation. But there are two flavors of deflation.
Speaker 14: There's good and there's bad. The good deflation has to
Speaker 14: do with innovation, and we have centered our research around
Speaker 14: five major platforms, all of which are technologically enabled and deflationtionary,
Speaker 14: and they're becoming a bigger part of the pie electric
Speaker 14: vehicle sales. For example, Tesla's making sure that it's passing
Speaker 14: along the cost declines from its drive electric drive trains
Speaker 14: to consumers so that it can sustain demand. Anything having
Speaker 14: to do with innovation, the best companies are going to
Speaker 14: pass those costs along to the consumers. And so I
Speaker 14: think you're going to see much broader based deflation in
Speaker 14: not only the transportation sector, but perhaps everywhere because artificial
Speaker 14: intelligence training costs AI training costs are dropping. Get this,
Speaker 14: seventy percent per year. Seventy percent per year. Now, that's
Speaker 14: the good deflation is causing booms in activity. But we
Speaker 14: do know that disruptive innovation will disturb or disintermediate the
Speaker 14: traditional world order electric vehicles and gas powered vehicles. You know,
Speaker 14: these auto companies ninety to ninety five percent of their
Speaker 14: revenues are still tied to the internal combustion engine.
Speaker 2: So, Kathy, when people talk about AI. Do you think
Speaker 2: it's going to upend the labor market substantially?
Speaker 14: The history of technology over time is that it's a
Speaker 14: net job creator. In the short term, you'll see some displacement,
Speaker 14: You'll need some retraining. But I like to remind people
Speaker 14: about the Internet. In the early days of the Internet,
Speaker 14: when we were trying to figure out what it was
Speaker 14: and how it was going to work, we had no
Speaker 14: idea about Uber or Airbnb businesses that could not exist
Speaker 14: without the Internet. And I think the same is going
Speaker 14: to be true in the AI world as well. I
Speaker 14: think it's going to be a tremendous boon to productivity.
Speaker 14: It is the equivalent for college workers of the assembly
Speaker 14: line in the industrial age. This is the new assembly line.
Speaker 14: And you know what happened because of the original assembly line, Well,
Speaker 14: a lot of people left the farms. There are a
Speaker 14: lot of farmers then and moved into businesses and activities
Speaker 14: that they didn't dream were possible before that. And I
Speaker 14: think the same will prove true now.
Speaker 7: Heye it love it, little Henry Ford henory there.
Speaker 10: I like it.
Speaker 2: Love love, love No, But it's like this big picture.
Speaker 2: One thing I want to ask you kind of whittling
Speaker 2: it down a little bit. You know, one of the
Speaker 2: things in the in the headlines today has to do
Speaker 2: about Dad Jones. You did an interview and you talked
Speaker 2: about Twitter and writing down your stake in Twitter by
Speaker 2: I think about forty seven percent since Elon took it over.
Speaker 2: You're still bullish long term, So help me understand that
Speaker 2: right down against a long term bullish view.
Speaker 14: Sure that we have no choice in this. This is
Speaker 14: we have a pricing committee. We calculate our net asset
Speaker 14: value for the ARC Venture Fund every day and we
Speaker 14: get a lot of markers. There's trading on the secondary
Speaker 14: market less. So with Twitter, we are trying to find
Speaker 14: some Twitter. We love to buy some at this level.
Speaker 14: But while a Fidelity has marked it down in some
Speaker 14: of the other large managers have marked their positions down
Speaker 14: dramatically based on Yes, we are still getting information about
Speaker 14: advertising sales not picking up dramatically yet, but they're in
Speaker 14: very early stage. With Linda joining the team, we'd love
Speaker 14: to buy it. We think longer term. We think that
Speaker 14: Elon understands what a super app is. After all, he
Speaker 14: did get started in the payment space and sold his
Speaker 14: company to PayPal in the last week. Twitter has gotten
Speaker 14: money transmitter licenses from three or four states and they're
Speaker 14: going to cover the land and we chat pay taught
Speaker 14: us a lot about what a super app is in
Speaker 14: terms of not only information flow, but financial activities and commerce.
Speaker 14: So we think Elon has grand plans, and you know,
Speaker 14: it's also been interesting. I think some of these markdowns
Speaker 14: may be a result of Threads. I don't know. I
Speaker 14: don't get involved in that decision making, but if you
Speaker 14: look at Threads already, the engagement activity is plummeting. I
Speaker 14: think people know that Threads is no Twitter.
Speaker 2: You still have to love meta though, right you were buying, right,
Speaker 2: you were buying some Meta, yes, and not for Threads
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 14: We have bought, you know, as Tesla went up two
Speaker 14: and a half fold in six to seven months. As
Speaker 14: we always do, we take profits. It's still the largest
Speaker 14: stock in our portfolio. We have our wish list out there,
Speaker 14: what companies are doing better than we expected. So Meta Platforms,
Speaker 14: you know, was disintermediated to some extent by TikTok. We
Speaker 14: had expected that, and we pulled away and avoided all
Speaker 14: of that loss. Now that doesn't mean we avoided losses
Speaker 14: in innovation because innovation was trounced broadly in twenty one
Speaker 14: and twenty two. But what we are intrigued by is
Speaker 14: the shift in focus and priorities from metaverse to artificial intelligence.
Speaker 14: That's the first thing. And what has also been quite
Speaker 14: astonishing to us is the engagement levels among all of
Speaker 14: their properties, Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp. They're pretty astonishing, very sticky,
Speaker 14: and so we can see why advertisers are coming back.
Speaker 14: That's kind of a say play. They're leaving linear TV
Speaker 14: and finding other ways to advertise, and so we do
Speaker 14: think meta is now back again gaining more share in advertising.
Speaker 2: That's Kathy Wood of our invest more of our conversation
Speaker 2: straight ahead, including her unwavering belief in bitcoin. Following a
Speaker 2: couple of key legal winds for Coinbase.
Speaker 14: It's going to be we think, a major institutional on
Speaker 14: ramp into the DeFi space.
Speaker 2: And they're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen.
Speaker 11: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the.
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Let's pick up with our conversation with Kathy Wood, Matt Miller,
Speaker 2: and I speaking with the founder's CEO and CIO of
Speaker 2: our co invest She overseed about fifteen point one billion
Speaker 2: in equity holdings at least at the end of June.
Speaker 2: That is way down from a peak of about sixty
Speaker 2: billion a few years ago. Her Arc Innovation ETF has
Speaker 2: been on a tear though this year, as have some
Speaker 2: of her investments in digital assets, including bitcoin.
Speaker 7: I wonder about crypto in terms of things still to materialize.
Speaker 7: It seems like a lot more people are getting on
Speaker 7: board with you. Who was Larry Fink was on Fox
Speaker 7: Business and he was saying, you know, basically everything's going
Speaker 7: to be tokenized. This is going to help the finance
Speaker 7: be more frictionless, and it was I think a fascinating
Speaker 7: to hear, you know, someone who controls the biggest firm
Speaker 7: in the financial industry globally to say things like that.
Speaker 7: We know that you're in coinbase, that's one of the
Speaker 7: stocks has done so well for you this year, But
Speaker 7: where else do you see good opportunities here? Given the
Speaker 7: regulatory scrutiny it's had under Gary Gensler.
Speaker 14: Well, I think what's happening first with crypto that is
Speaker 14: wonderful in terms of the United State. While we were
Speaker 14: very unhappy with Chairman Gensler's direction, we're very happy that
Speaker 14: the judicial and legislative branches of our government are questioning
Speaker 14: the power that he seems to have seized and are
Speaker 14: questioning whether he should have a right to do and
Speaker 14: say some of the things that he's doing. So that's good.
Speaker 14: I think the Ripple ruling last week was a big
Speaker 14: win for crypto. Another juditial branch weighing in. So we
Speaker 14: own coinbase, as you know. We bought it when we
Speaker 14: saw the Wells notice and the sec suit because we
Speaker 14: believed and it turned out to be correct, that the
Speaker 14: judicial and legislative branches would start to weigh into this discussion.
Speaker 14: We also own Square, which has a business dedicated to bitcoin,
Speaker 14: and it's going to be the trojan horse to get
Speaker 14: into other other economies, especially emerging markets. This is cash
Speaker 14: app to get into those markets. So those two names.
Speaker 14: But one of the reasons you are I think hearing
Speaker 14: Larry I think whacks more eloquently on the crypto space
Speaker 14: when at one point he I think was calling bitcoin
Speaker 14: ponzi scheme, is that there are now Bitcoin filings at
Speaker 14: the SEC and we have one Blackrock as one. So
Speaker 14: I think that's another reason we're hearing more from these
Speaker 14: more traditional players. You know, defied decentralized financial services is
Speaker 14: a risk for these centralized players, so they're trying to
Speaker 14: play ball and actually use the technology to lower their
Speaker 14: own cost base. But they as a centralized institution, do
Speaker 14: not have the DNA we think will take to really
Speaker 14: succeed in a decentralized financial services.
Speaker 2: So, Kathy, does coinbase in your view, become kind of
Speaker 2: a bridge between traditional finance and the DeFi worlds.
Speaker 14: Yes, it is. It's developing something called base and definitely
Speaker 14: understands both worlds. It's going to be, we think, a
Speaker 14: major institutional on ramp into the DeFi space. And you know,
Speaker 14: we're hearing more and more where there's smoke, there's fire.
Speaker 14: Sometimes certainly was true with Ta Luna and FTX, but
Speaker 14: you know we're hearing more turmoil when it comes to
Speaker 14: binance as well, with Australia and the Netherlands basically banning
Speaker 14: it as effectively we have done here in the United States.
Speaker 14: So think about the share gains that as an on
Speaker 14: ramp that Coinbase will enjoy if anything do ntoward does
Speaker 14: happen to binance.
Speaker 2: So when you sell coinbase, like, is it just again
Speaker 2: taking some money off the table because of the incredible run.
Speaker 14: Yes, this is its portfolio management. You know, when something
Speaker 14: is up fourfold from you know where we had been
Speaker 14: buying it, we will take some profits. It's now the
Speaker 14: number two position in the flagship strategy ARKK, it's number
Speaker 14: one in ar K f our FinTechs fintech strategy. So
Speaker 14: we are we become opportunistic at those moments in time,
Speaker 14: and very often you'll see us buy something as you
Speaker 14: saw we talked about Meta that is also up a lot,
Speaker 14: but in which our conviction has increased because again in
Speaker 14: the case of Meta, change in priorities.
Speaker 7: So don't you think that's what investors are doing with
Speaker 7: the flows as well, Kathy, because you know last year
Speaker 7: ARKK came down a lot in terms of its price action,
Speaker 7: but the flows were just piling in. Investors were still buying, buying, buying,
Speaker 7: And so this year your funds have done very well.
Speaker 7: They're up fifty sixty, seventy percent depending on which one
Speaker 7: you look at. And I get that people would take
Speaker 7: money off the table.
Speaker 14: And so do we, so do we, and they're taking
Speaker 14: money off the table, you know, in many, many of
Speaker 14: the funds that we're compared against and that we measure
Speaker 14: ourselves against. And yet the focus on ARC alone is interesting.
Speaker 14: It's it's a phenomenon, and it makes sense. Yes, have
Speaker 14: had a big run. Now, one thing that's happened recently
Speaker 14: for us is we had seen a basing we'll use
Speaker 14: arkk but it's true of all of our strategies, a
Speaker 14: basing inner range mid thirties to mid forties, mid thirties,
Speaker 14: and so we saw, you know, profit taking a forty
Speaker 14: five and moving back into mid thirties. Well, we just
Speaker 14: broke out of that forty five range. So actually, in
Speaker 14: the last it seems like a lot of I don't
Speaker 14: know if they're technicians or investors who use technical analysis,
Speaker 14: basically are saying, oh, it broke out of the range.
Speaker 14: And I do think that's why our flows are now
Speaker 14: back in in July.
Speaker 2: So, Kathy, you know the reporting, We've done it, Dad
Speaker 2: Jones has done it others about outflows in your fund
Speaker 2: since October. So you're saying that money's coming in at
Speaker 2: this point turn around.
Speaker 14: Yeah, and you can see you can see our ETFs.
Speaker 14: We report them every day. The flows are reported every day.
Speaker 14: So I think for the flagship it's around two hundred
Speaker 14: and fifty million dollars just thus far in July. So yes,
Speaker 14: and before that we understood people were taking profits just
Speaker 14: like we take profits in our stocks. As you were saying, Matt,
Speaker 14: this is nothing new. However, there's there's another There's something
Speaker 14: else that could be going on here, and that is,
Speaker 14: if you look at the Nasdaq and the cues, they're
Speaker 14: not too far from their all time highs, whereas our
Speaker 14: strategies and let's take the flagship ARKK, the all time
Speaker 14: high was close to one sixty, and we're still below fifty.
Speaker 14: And sure, maybe the one sixty was a bit too far,
Speaker 14: but I think our funds were disadvantaged because they don't
Speaker 14: look like the Nasdaq or the Nasdaq one hundred. And
Speaker 14: as the markets were selling off last year, more people,
Speaker 14: more investors, tried to get closer to their benchmarks, and
Speaker 14: they were selling our stocks and buying the big megacap
Speaker 14: texts and so forth. I think that might be changing.
Speaker 14: I think real active management is starting to evolve here
Speaker 14: or have more of an impact because even though we
Speaker 14: don't own most of the megacap techs in terms of
Speaker 14: the magnificent seven, really Tesla's are major holding, and we
Speaker 14: do have twenty five percent exposure to healthcare, which is
Speaker 14: negative you're to date for the sector, but for us,
Speaker 14: it's somewhere in the twenty five to thirty percent appreciation range.
Speaker 14: This is active management at work as well as smid
Speaker 14: We're much more tilted towards smidcap smaller and cap stocks,
Speaker 14: and those have underperformed the mega cap texts, but our
Speaker 14: strategies are outperforming the Nasdaq one hundred. So it's saying
Speaker 14: something to us about true active management beginning to make
Speaker 14: a difference. Again.
Speaker 2: That was our convest founder, CEO and CIO, Kathy Wood.
Speaker 2: Even more from Kathy available at our Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 2: podcast feed. Head there to find out what she thinks
Speaker 2: Crypto offers investors that no other asset can and which
Speaker 2: company she believes will be the next source of market
Speaker 2: shifting innovation. It's kind of her newest big bet still
Speaker 2: to come on Bloomberg BusinessWeek. A different sort of female
Speaker 2: entrepreneur who's looking to leave her mark on the venture
Speaker 2: capital business Halojen Venture's founding partner Jesse Draper, joins us
Speaker 2: on the other side, and if her name sounds familiar,
Speaker 2: it should well.
Speaker 5: When we come back, This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio,
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app, and YouTube. You can also listen
Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,
Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg News recently reporting on the venture capital space, noting
Speaker 2: that climate tech, which has been an investing bright spot
Speaker 2: since twenty twenty one, is not so hot anymore. In fact,
Speaker 2: the first half of twenty twenty three so a decrease
Speaker 2: in climate venture funding, according to a new report from
Speaker 2: Climate Tech VC. That change, though, really reflects an overall
Speaker 2: broader slow down in VC investments, driven by larger macroeconomic
Speaker 2: forces such as higher interest rates as well as sector
Speaker 2: specific issues. Well, our next guest is making her own
Speaker 2: early stage investments. We're talking about La based Halogen Ventures
Speaker 2: founding partner and fourth generation venture capitalist, Jesse Draper. Some
Speaker 2: of her investments have already been acquired by the likes
Speaker 2: of P and G, Twitter, and Walmart. She sat down
Speaker 2: in studio with me and her childhood friend, my co host,
Speaker 2: Matt Miller.
Speaker 7: I've also always admired her dad, not just because I
Speaker 7: know him from growing up, because he's because the whole
Speaker 7: family is so deep into venture capital. But Tim and
Speaker 7: Jesse's brother Adam got deep into bitcoin right when I
Speaker 7: started covering it, so about ten years ago.
Speaker 2: I guess it is what's that what's that environment like
Speaker 2: growing up that way? Or just do you guys like
Speaker 2: get together and just talk about opportunities, like what's it
Speaker 2: like you pitch each other?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 16: Yeah, of course. I mean my mom calls it like
Speaker 16: our dinners are board of directors meetings. You know, we're
Speaker 16: talking about deals. And I'm the oldest of four, and
Speaker 16: I have two brothers and a sister. There is an
Speaker 16: incredible artist l But my two brothers run venture funds,
Speaker 16: and then my dad has an active venture fund as well,
Speaker 16: and so we do we share deals. I have great
Speaker 16: advisors around me all the time, you know, I have
Speaker 16: great people to call. We've all had very different experiences.
Speaker 16: We all have very separate venture capital funds focused on
Speaker 16: different things, but I think in terms of what I'm
Speaker 16: focused on growing up there, my dad was always super
Speaker 16: supportive of women, and he made me feel like I
Speaker 16: could do absolutely anything. But my mom would say things like, Okay,
Speaker 16: you're going on another business trip, Tim, well, you need to.
Speaker 5: Take a kid.
Speaker 16: And I was the oldest. So I traveled around the
Speaker 16: world with my dad. It was this amazing thing, and
Speaker 16: I got to go to China and all these Ukraine
Speaker 16: and all of these incredible countries and see what their
Speaker 16: kind of startup world was like. But what I realized
Speaker 16: was that I was different because I was female, and
Speaker 16: so being a fourth generation venture capitalist comes with a
Speaker 16: lot of preconceived notions, and so I used to kind
Speaker 16: of shy away from that. But now I'm like, no,
Speaker 16: you know, that's a really huge part of my story.
Speaker 16: And I didn't think I could be in these rooms.
Speaker 16: I'd be in China meeting with diplomats and I'd be
Speaker 16: sort of shunned outside of the room. And I kept
Speaker 16: trying to explain to my dad, you know, like they
Speaker 16: just don't want me here. I really feel like it's
Speaker 16: because I'm a woman, and he just no, no, no,
Speaker 16: I don't know what you're talking about and so I
Speaker 16: was just like, so it was so important to me
Speaker 16: to support women in whatever I did. I ended up
Speaker 16: going after a career in entertainment, like any young girl.
Speaker 16: I looked to Hollywood because my aunt, Polly Draper is
Speaker 16: a fairly successful actress, a very successful actress actually, and
Speaker 16: she is currently on a show called The Company You
Speaker 16: Keep Shameless plug for my aunt, who's awesome, and she
Speaker 16: ran on thirty seven and she always really inspired me.
Speaker 16: So I said, oh, well, this is what women do.
Speaker 16: This is a traditional job for a woman. As a
Speaker 16: young girl, you know, they say you can be what
Speaker 16: you can see. So I kind of went after her.
Speaker 16: My mom worked incredibly hard raising four children and went
Speaker 16: into entertainment. I had so many I had a lot
Speaker 16: of great success. Was on a Nickelodeon show. I was
Speaker 16: in a bunch of movies, NA The Naked Brothers Man.
Speaker 16: But it was also I had so many cattle calls.
Speaker 16: And there was this very memorable one where I was
Speaker 16: in Los Angeles, somewhere on Sunset Boulevard going to a
Speaker 16: cattle call, where you know, there's five hundred women much
Speaker 16: more beautiful, much more talented than I am. I wait
Speaker 16: five hours. It was for like Transporter two or something,
Speaker 16: and Jason Staveum, I get in the room. I have
Speaker 16: my little sides prepared and I'm like, Hi, I'm Jesse
Speaker 16: either like no, don't speak, turn around, turn around, and
Speaker 16: I and like click click, and I leave, and I
Speaker 16: just felt like gross, you know, And then I realized
Speaker 16: I'd been sent to this thing called it through an
Speaker 16: organization called Charlie's Bodies, so they were literally just looking
Speaker 16: for bodies. And I walked out of there. And because
Speaker 16: I was a zealous celebrity who was like on a
Speaker 16: Nickelodeon show, I had been invited to the first Twitter
Speaker 16: conference and it was the very first one two thousand
Speaker 16: and eight something like that at the Skirball Center, and
Speaker 16: I went and I was like, you know, I'm one
Speaker 16: of the only women in this room. But it's a
Speaker 16: reminder that this is where, like I know this business,
Speaker 16: and there's something really cool happening here with social media.
Speaker 16: And so I ended up combining these two kind of
Speaker 16: worlds created one of the first tech talk shows, if
Speaker 16: you guys can believe it, back in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 16: And I know it was the first because I had
Speaker 16: elon Musk and the former CEO of Google, Eric schmid On,
Speaker 16: and nobody cared because they.
Speaker 7: Want to have I will say that I watched it.
Speaker 16: It was It was a terrible show. When I look back,
Speaker 16: I'm like horrified, But I thought my career started. It
Speaker 16: was called The Valley Girls Show, took it to TV,
Speaker 16: we were nominated for an Emmy. We built out a
Speaker 16: whole tech news blog around it, and through that show,
Speaker 16: I realized I was only interviewing men in technology. So
Speaker 16: I made an initiative to interview fifty percent women in tech,
Speaker 16: and they came. I still today called the Batwoman's signal.
Speaker 16: I started getting pitched all of these incredible deals. I
Speaker 16: had Sheryl Sandberg on the show before she'd written Lean
Speaker 16: In and Jessica album when she was just starting on
Speaker 16: his company, and then wanted to help women in tech
Speaker 16: by giving them media exposure. And then I made that initiative,
Speaker 16: and then realized they also needed funding. So first I
Speaker 16: was sourcing deals like paperless posts, finding them their first
Speaker 16: investors in numerous others, and then started writing tiny angel checks.
Speaker 16: Sold my first company for twenty six x return on
Speaker 16: the secondary market. Benchmark had come in marked it up significantly.
Speaker 16: I had this great opportunity to sell, and then everyone
Speaker 16: else lost their money, so I had this nice little
Speaker 16: track record. I feel badly, but I was really happy
Speaker 16: I sold and then not that badly, and then I
Speaker 16: had a track record, went and raised my first fund
Speaker 16: from a lot of the guests on my show. And
Speaker 16: now we're going out for our third right now, which
Speaker 16: I can legally say because we're a five o six.
Speaker 7: What a cool story.
Speaker 2: That is pretty amazing. That's great, that's a book. But
Speaker 2: talk to us, make sense, talk to us about what
Speaker 2: guides you in terms of where you want to invest.
Speaker 16: So right now, we So we were more generalists when
Speaker 16: we started because we were consumer tech early stage and
Speaker 16: kind of there had to be a female in the
Speaker 16: founding team of five. And uh, it's funny when you
Speaker 16: say that to people. You get a lot of questions like, well,
Speaker 16: what if a guy works there? And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 16: so lots of men work at our companies, and so
Speaker 16: I always like to say, we have seventy two companies
Speaker 16: and we have three male CEOs, So we love men.
Speaker 16: It's about everybody. We just want to make sure there's
Speaker 16: a female in the founding team. But I think right now,
Speaker 16: when I'm supers.
Speaker 2: Women, if the whole idea is the research there's diversity
Speaker 2: is good, we have to also be ye all in
Speaker 2: on diversity is it is a little.
Speaker 7: Bit are okay?
Speaker 16: Men are good. Men are good, but it is frustrating.
Speaker 16: I get a lot of questions about that, like there's
Speaker 16: a lot of technicalities, like it'll be thirty I'll pitch
Speaker 16: my fund and be like, yeah, I have this company,
Speaker 16: baby List doing a billion GMV you know, And then
Speaker 16: they're like, okay, but.
Speaker 2: What if a guy works there.
Speaker 16: Okay, but what if he's you know, the co founder,
Speaker 16: you still will invest. But what if I'm like, we're
Speaker 16: building billion dollar businesses, if not trillion dollar businesses. So yes,
Speaker 16: but our companies are doing so incredibly well. We're looking
Speaker 16: right now at this category Future of Families, which we
Speaker 16: went out for childcare, and I said, I want this
Speaker 16: third fund to be like the childcare Fund because we
Speaker 16: have these incredible companies like Hop Skip Drive, which is
Speaker 16: tackling getting kids too and from school. We have week Care,
Speaker 16: which is the largest childcare network a technology in the country.
Speaker 16: They oversee sixty six thousand in home vetted childcare locations,
Speaker 16: this is the largest childcare network and the most affordable
Speaker 16: childcare opportunity for families of children under the age of six.
Speaker 16: And then you know a company called Binti that's putting
Speaker 16: adoption online. And so we realized these companies were doing really,
Speaker 16: really well, and we had such an op opportunity. It's
Speaker 16: such an underinvested market and it's been broken for so
Speaker 16: many years. Agreed, and so I said, I want this
Speaker 16: to be the Childcare Fund. And a lot of people said, well,
Speaker 16: is that a big enough market? And I said, well,
Speaker 16: it's five hundred and twenty billion. But you know, challenge accepted.
Speaker 16: I love a good challenge.
Speaker 7: Yep. It is commonly known, at least on this show,
Speaker 7: because we talk about it all the time, that very
Speaker 7: little money in VC goes to women funded businesses. I
Speaker 7: think two percent is the number we're working with that, which,
Speaker 7: on the one hand is horrible. You know, we should
Speaker 7: be investing more on women obviously. On the other hand,
Speaker 7: it's a great opportunity for you. I mean, there's just
Speaker 7: a huge green field where you can go out and
Speaker 7: grow money. So what are to you the most exciting
Speaker 7: businesses that you run or that you invest in?
Speaker 2: I should say, I guess you heard it.
Speaker 16: Do your favorite many, Matt, There's so many, but you're right.
Speaker 16: There's only two percent of venture capital funding is going
Speaker 16: towards women, and actually last year it was less, it
Speaker 16: was one point nine percent. And I'm so happy you're
Speaker 16: talking about it. I'm so happy you talk about it regularly.
Speaker 16: I've realized in VC we talk about it. In female
Speaker 16: focused VC, we talk about it all the time. And
Speaker 16: we actually just did this big campaign and featured a
Speaker 16: bunch of our portfolio companies to raise awareness about this
Speaker 16: because we want people to realize that women are starting
Speaker 16: companies in every industry.
Speaker 2: That's Halogen Ventures founding partner Jesse Draper. More of our
Speaker 2: discussion on the VC landscape is straight Ahead, including her
Speaker 2: expectations for deal flow in the near term. You're listening
Speaker 2: to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app,
Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: So with Matt Miller and me is Jesse Draper. She's
Speaker 2: the founding partner of Vallet based Halogen Ventures and a
Speaker 2: fourth generation venture capitalist. Here, Jesse is explaining the hurdles
Speaker 2: facing many female led early stage companies. Jesse says they
Speaker 2: often have trouble securing investments due to an over concentration
Speaker 2: of venture funding among a small handful of firms, which
Speaker 2: are often hesitant to get in on the ground floor.
Speaker 16: They follow on later once you prove yourself. But I
Speaker 16: think it's the early stage capital is really where we
Speaker 16: have to make change. Like men have passed the pocketbooks
Speaker 16: down for generation to generation, so you're dealing.
Speaker 11: With that also.
Speaker 16: But women are starting great companies and we do. You know,
Speaker 16: I saw ten thousand deals last year. I was just
Speaker 16: telling you because you were asking, you know, well, do
Speaker 16: you even see enough deals? And I can't tell you
Speaker 16: how often I get that question. And because I'm a
Speaker 16: female looking for women led deals, I see more deals
Speaker 16: than traditional venture capitalists because women are looking for women,
Speaker 16: and I'm innundated. I don't even know how to get
Speaker 16: through it all. You know, it's we will eventually have
Speaker 16: billions of dollars to invest in all of these incredible women.
Speaker 16: But I see so many deals that I can't do
Speaker 16: because you know, we don't get enough funding just as
Speaker 16: an entire eco system of female led managers. And then
Speaker 16: also I think there's something around the female partners at
Speaker 16: the larger funds have trouble getting a deal across the table.
Speaker 16: I think you need more than one woman at the table.
Speaker 2: Well, and we did the stories of at a Silicon
Speaker 2: valley that even women venture capitalists at prominent firms, we're
Speaker 2: not investing in women led companies.
Speaker 16: It was just like they can't always get them across
Speaker 16: the table. They'll tell me exactly.
Speaker 7: But that's more opportunity for you, So totally. Yeah. So,
Speaker 7: I mean it's, as I say, it's message.
Speaker 16: Changing, but we're changing it.
Speaker 2: We are changing it.
Speaker 7: So currently, what are exits like right now?
Speaker 16: It's such a good question, Matt. You know, right now
Speaker 16: I sit on quite a few boards and we're all
Speaker 16: talking about M and A. I mean, I think any
Speaker 16: good board is constantly talking about M and A as
Speaker 16: an option at some point or IPO or just some
Speaker 16: sort of liquidity event down the road. But I'd say
Speaker 16: your company in the next six to nine months, if
Speaker 16: you have to sell, it is not a time people
Speaker 16: are just freaking out about liquidity about the markets. They
Speaker 16: feel like in stable and they're just kind of scared
Speaker 16: right now. All the consumer businesses I'm seeing the ones
Speaker 16: that are selling. We're selling one business right now. Everything's
Speaker 16: for about half of what it should be worth, unfortunately,
Speaker 16: and so you're only selling if you're really in a jam.
Speaker 16: So if you have businesses that you want liquidity from,
Speaker 16: I would not sell it right now. I would wait,
Speaker 16: start getting to know some acquirers or you know, just
Speaker 16: build the business. But also the coolest thing about investing
Speaker 16: in women is the majority of our companies are profitable.
Speaker 16: And that's like this unheard of term in the past
Speaker 16: ten years. So you know, get profitable, like create, take
Speaker 16: this time to build a much better business, and your
Speaker 16: exit down the road will be much better.
Speaker 2: We wanted to ask you just real quick, like the
Speaker 2: collapse of Silicon Valley Bank. Did you feel an impact
Speaker 2: of that?
Speaker 16: Oh my god, yes, yeah, that was the scariest weekend
Speaker 16: of my life. Over fifty percent of my portfolio banked there.
Speaker 16: I banked there. I couldn't even support my companies who
Speaker 16: couldn't make payroll because of it. While I'm super sensitive
Speaker 16: to the people who lost their jobs and all our
Speaker 16: friends at Silicon Valley Bank. This is a great time
Speaker 16: to invest in fintech. We're going to see new banks,
Speaker 16: We're going to see new products, insurance products that protect
Speaker 16: your money. Crypto's going to be on the rise. I mean,
Speaker 16: it's a really exciting time. But I mean, yes, I
Speaker 16: think we're going to see some more of those, unfortunately our.
Speaker 2: Thanks to Jesse Draper of Hallijen Ventures. You can listen
Speaker 2: to the full conversation find it under podcast feed. And
Speaker 2: that wraps up the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 2: from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Monday through
Speaker 2: Friday starting at three pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg
Speaker 2: Radio and on Series XM Channel one nineteen. You can
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Speaker 2: The latest edition of the magazine, available on newstands now,
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.
Speaker 2: Have a good and safe weekend. Stay cool, I know
Speaker 2: it's hot out there. I'm Carol Masser along with Matt Miller.
Speaker 2: Stay with us. Today's top stories and global business headlines
Speaker 2: are coming up right now.
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available.
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Speaker 1: Listen live weekday afternoons from three to six Easterning.
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