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Speaker 1: Murder and Oregon is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: I met Tim at a video arcade and I thought

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Speaker 2: he was the cutest, most charming guy that hung out there,

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Speaker 2: and so pretty much right away he asked me out.

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Speaker 3: Liz Godlove was Tim Natividad's girlfriend and mother of their son.

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Speaker 3: They met while they were both in high school and

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Speaker 3: quickly spiraled into an intensely passionate, dysfunctional, and dangerous relationship,

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Speaker 3: one that would end in a violent death. I'm Lauren

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Speaker 3: Dray Pacheco and this is Murder in Oregon. In our

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Speaker 3: last episode, we learned that Tim Natividad, also known as Rooster,

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Speaker 3: was thought by many to be a likely suspect in

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Speaker 3: the murder of Michael Frankie. We also learned of his

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Speaker 3: drug addiction, propensity for violence, and the twisted relationship he

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Speaker 3: had with Carrie Rothschild, one in which he acted as

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Speaker 3: a kind of broken guardian, rescuing her from the drug

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Speaker 3: fueled nightmare that was her mother's house and introducing her

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Speaker 3: to a whole new nightmare of drug dealing, dependence, and murder.

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Speaker 3: During that entire time, Natividad was also in a relationship

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Speaker 3: with Liz Godlove, who started to see the evil behind

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Speaker 3: his good looks almost immediately.

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Speaker 2: Well, like I said, I thought it was handsome and

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Speaker 2: you know, pretty much our first date, though he showed

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Speaker 2: a lot of jealousy. We've double dated that, and he

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Speaker 2: was super jealous of his own brother. His own brother

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Speaker 2: was talking to me a little bit too much and

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Speaker 2: that pissed him off, and he started driving crazy in

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Speaker 2: the car.

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Speaker 4: And yelling at his brother. Yeah, this is my date.

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Speaker 2: You have years back there, and it really.

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Speaker 3: Scared me, but not enough to deny his attraction. Photos

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Speaker 3: of Natividad show a strikingly handsome young man with dark

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Speaker 3: hair and dark eyes.

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Speaker 2: Didn't scare me away because Tim he always came over

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Speaker 2: and called and he was just like all over me,

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Speaker 2: and he was so nice in the beginning. You know,

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Speaker 2: he had the excuses about a stupid brother trying to

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Speaker 2: pick up on his dates all the time, and you know,

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Speaker 2: so put that to.

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Speaker 3: Bed just sixteen and caught up in a crush. Liz

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Speaker 3: ignored red flags and refused to see the patterns Natividad

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Speaker 3: demonstrated from the beginning as abusive, something that became much

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Speaker 3: more evident during the course of their relationship.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I was young and dumb.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, the jealousy Tim displayed on their first date continued,

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Speaker 3: and he quickly became possessive. Too young and inexperienced, Liz

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Speaker 3: mistook that intensity for love, and when I.

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Speaker 4: Would try to break up with him, he wouldn't have it. No,

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Speaker 4: he would not have it at all.

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Speaker 2: I tried a few times, and he would stab himself,

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Speaker 2: cut his wrists with razors. He would do all that

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Speaker 2: in front of me, and then, of course he tells

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Speaker 2: me not to tell anyone, But a lot of times

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Speaker 2: my sister was there, he'd go to the bathroom.

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Speaker 4: And start cutting his wrists.

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Speaker 2: Or I was at his mom and dad's house, he

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Speaker 2: was in his bedroom cutting his wrists. He came to

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Speaker 2: my work one evening and I noticed him in the

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Speaker 2: lunchroom in the middle of the night. It was really crowded,

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Speaker 2: and I noticed him watching me, and I'm like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, you can get over here. You get downstairs now.

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Speaker 2: So I go flying downstairs after him. We get in

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Speaker 2: his car.

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Speaker 4: He pulls out a big knife and just starts packing

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Speaker 4: at himself in.

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Speaker 2: Blood, squirting everywhere, saying he's going to kill me, just

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Speaker 2: like that, stabbing himself.

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Speaker 4: So I get out of the car, run in and

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Speaker 4: get help. Please come.

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Speaker 2: Took him to the state hospital for the night and

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Speaker 2: he got out the next day.

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Speaker 4: So that's how I lived with him. That's how it was.

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Speaker 4: It was very scary and.

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Speaker 3: Aggressive, but Natividad's behavior wasn't just triggered by their relationship.

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Speaker 2: His brother said that when they grew up in California,

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Speaker 2: early on he was diagnosed schizophrenic.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if that's true.

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Speaker 2: I have no clue, but so the drugs could have

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Speaker 2: been the drugs.

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Speaker 3: This was a similar patterned to what Carrie Rothchild experienced

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Speaker 3: with Tim. His drug use led to Liz's drug use

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Speaker 3: at a very young age, and Liz says it was

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Speaker 3: spurred on by Tim's own mother.

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Speaker 2: His mom had turned us onto Crosstops speed early on.

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Speaker 4: I think we were seventeen. Then. They're a little tiny

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Speaker 4: pill that was like meth. It kept you up for

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Speaker 4: hours and hours and hours. Everybody was using him back then.

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Speaker 3: I asked Liz about Tim's upbringing to gleam insight into

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Speaker 3: his life and how he wound up an Oregon. Aside

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Speaker 3: from drug use, violent crime seemed to be part of

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Speaker 3: his family legacy.

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Speaker 2: He did have his mom and dad, six brothers and sisters.

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Speaker 2: His dad worked two jobs to support the family. The

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Speaker 2: mother had a boyfriend all the time on the side,

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Speaker 2: which disgusted and angered Tim.

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Speaker 4: He didn't like it.

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Speaker 2: Of course, his mom got into some serious trouble in California,

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Speaker 2: and Tim didn't like that. They had to move to

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Speaker 2: Sale Organ for her protection. She was in the witness

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Speaker 2: protection program. Evidently she had delivered the money for the hit,

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Speaker 2: so she did some prison time for that.

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Speaker 4: That's why they came to Organ.

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Speaker 3: A few years into their violent and dysfunctional relationship, Liz

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Speaker 3: found herself pregnant. How did he react to that?

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Speaker 4: Oh, he was happy. He was fine with that. I

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Speaker 4: was in shock. Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he wanted to eventually have another child with me.

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Speaker 3: Her shock stemmed from the fact she didn't think it

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Speaker 3: was possible in the first place.

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Speaker 2: He said, there's no way, shape or form he could

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Speaker 2: ever have children.

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Speaker 4: Never. Tim said he was sterile.

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Speaker 2: He was born with his intestines outside his stomach, and

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Speaker 2: he said that had messed up his system for life,

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Speaker 2: that he was test then there's no way he could

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Speaker 2: have children. So he was happy when when I got

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Speaker 2: pregnant and clearly Anthony is his because I.

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Speaker 4: Don't cheat on people, and Anthony looks a lot like.

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Speaker 3: His dad was natividad faithful, No way, no, heck no.

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Speaker 4: I learned later that he had a lot of girlfriends.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: See I was at home taking care of the baby,

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Speaker 2: being a good girl while he was out selling drugs

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Speaker 2: or whatever he was doing.

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Speaker 4: I had no idea he had all the girlfriends.

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Speaker 3: After their son was born, Tim's behavior continued downward spiral.

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Speaker 3: Lizz's sister, Becky, was married to Vince Taylor, one of

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Speaker 3: Tim's childhood friends who he spoke to in a previous episode.

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Speaker 3: He was also a fellow member of the Kaiser Mafia,

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Speaker 3: the drug dealing gang based in a nearby suburb of Salem.

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Speaker 5: We lived right next door to each other. I lived

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Speaker 5: above and they lived below. He wasn't a quiet Verson.

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Speaker 5: Everything was just going to hell after a while, you know,

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Speaker 5: and then you would start seeing Liz maybe had a

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Speaker 5: bruise on her face or something like that.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 3: At the time, Vince was living with Liz's sister, Becky.

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Speaker 2: Tim wouldn't allow Becky to come to my house. We

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Speaker 2: lived in the same complex, and he wouldn't allow me

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Speaker 2: up there to visit her. He just kept my family

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Speaker 2: away from me.

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Speaker 7: It was just odd.

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Speaker 2: If he'd leave and I needed food in the house,

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Speaker 2: I would sneak to the store as fast as I could.

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Speaker 7: Got caught once.

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Speaker 2: I was pulling in and he pulled in at the

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Speaker 2: same time he was screaming at me, and it scared me.

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Speaker 2: So I grabbed Anthony and started running to forward my

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Speaker 2: sister's house. And he took a big set of keys

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Speaker 2: and threw it so hard and nailed me hard with

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Speaker 2: the keys with my son in my arms. Was son

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Speaker 2: of a good And yeah, I think we called the

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Speaker 2: polace that night. Believe we always called the police because

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Speaker 2: we went upstairs and locked the door and put furniture

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Speaker 2: under the door knob, and you it wouldn't come out.

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Speaker 3: Eventually, things got so bad that Liz, her sister, and

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Speaker 3: Vince made the decision to flee the state with her

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Speaker 3: small son. Here's Vince pet a killer, I guarantee it.

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Speaker 5: You know, he's not messing around. He was that far

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Speaker 5: gone in his mind, you know, he thought everybody was

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Speaker 5: a cop or trying to get him or trying to well,

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Speaker 5: what's it? You know, questioning me. I go, what the

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Speaker 5: hell are you doing? You know, I mean, things are weird.

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Speaker 5: Wants to patch you down, see if you got a

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Speaker 5: MIC on you or anything like that. He was just

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Speaker 5: he was gone.

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Speaker 2: Tim got extremely dangerous. We felt he was really dangerous,

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Speaker 2: holding knives to my throat, choking me out, and like

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Speaker 2: the police weren't really there's nothing they could do. I

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Speaker 2: filed restraining orders. Tim would get locked up for the

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Speaker 2: day and get out. It would be worse, so I

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Speaker 2: couldn't trust the reson orders anymore. I called Tim's probation officer,

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Speaker 2: and I called the Women's Christis Center. They all said,

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Speaker 2: if you can leave the state, So Evince and Becky said,

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Speaker 2: let's go, Let's get the heck out of here.

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Speaker 7: And where did you know?

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Speaker 2: We went to Colorado, where we were scared to death

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Speaker 2: to be there, looking for work there, still afraid of Tim.

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Speaker 2: Everyone was supposed to be quiet and not tell Tim

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Speaker 2: where I was. Well, one of my friends said, Tim

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Speaker 2: went to my last place of employment and threatened her

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Speaker 2: with the gun out on the front porch and said tell.

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Speaker 7: Me where she's at, and she did so.

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Speaker 2: Then my phone call was Tim's coming, He's coming to

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Speaker 2: get you.

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Speaker 7: We're so freaking scared.

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Speaker 2: I may giggle today and it's just out of nerves

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Speaker 2: and frustration.

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Speaker 7: It just nothing was working. I didn't know what to.

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Speaker 3: Do, and Liz wasn't Antiviidad's only target.

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Speaker 2: Tim was threatening to kill me, my family, Vince. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it was getting really really scary and really bad. And

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Speaker 2: he said he had killed a man and watched him die.

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Speaker 2: Just all the drugs and guns and his behavior, it

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Speaker 2: was time for us to go.

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Speaker 7: We had to go. We were scared for our lives,

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Speaker 7: very very scared.

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Speaker 3: Scared for her life and trapped by her fear he'd

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Speaker 3: harm her family. Liz returned to Tim. The Tiodad's behavior

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Speaker 3: remained erratic, but it was after the time period of

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Speaker 3: the Frankie murder that things really hit a breaking point.

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Speaker 2: It was really super paranoid, angry, sad, mad, a lot

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Speaker 2: of crying and shaking and not letting me out of

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Speaker 2: his sight, not letting me have family, over keeping the

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Speaker 2: blinds shut and saying don't let anybody in, do not

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Speaker 2: answer the door, and if I'm here, I'm not here.

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Speaker 2: He wanted to move to Bend and buy house in

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Speaker 2: those two weeks.

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Speaker 4: He's telling me all this.

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Speaker 2: He wanted to go to Hawaii, so he had all

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Speaker 2: these big plans right away.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: He was packing in the guns. He was bringing guns

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Speaker 2: in the house, a lot of them, machine guns, pistols.

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Speaker 3: Jay Boutwell, a former detective for the Marion County Sheriff's Department,

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Speaker 3: remembers responding to a call during that time.

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Speaker 8: I was on the road in the enter radio car

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Speaker 8: and I was assigned to make contact on my beer's

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Speaker 8: apartment house I'd off of Lancaster, but it was ended

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Speaker 8: up being the girlfriend of Natividad, also known his Rooster

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Speaker 8: Street name. And I met her downstairs and she told

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Speaker 8: me that all four retires were slashed. And I'm looking

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Speaker 8: at this and I'm thinking, man, live, you know, that's

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Speaker 8: a pretty good knife to cut through sidewalls of four tires.

224
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Speaker 8: And there's no blood, so he didn't cut himself. That

225
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Speaker 8: kind of stuff. No evidence around the ground. It's just

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Speaker 8: like they walk up and step it in. So it's

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Speaker 8: like a one pope child. And then she tells me

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Speaker 8: the thing that threw me. She says, I think Natividad

229
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Speaker 8: did did what slash retired. That's who's told me, She said.

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Speaker 8: I think he did that, and she says, because we've

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Speaker 8: been fighting a lot. And then she goes on a

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Speaker 8: little further to tell me he's got a stolen forty

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Speaker 8: five automatic and apartments right now. And so I says, well,

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Speaker 8: they say, way I can get it. She says no,

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Speaker 8: because it would burn me and it would have he'd

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Speaker 8: probably killed her. So I backed off on it and

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Speaker 8: hope that maybe I could find something off the street

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Speaker 8: to maybe do a warrant to get in there and

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Speaker 8: take it. And that's before we knew about the two,

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Speaker 8: that I have anything to do with any any suspicions

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Speaker 8: of Frankie. In fact, I think it was even it

242
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Speaker 8: was just a few days after Frankie was murdered, if

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Speaker 8: I'm correct.

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Speaker 3: By this point, Tim's abuse was physical, verbal, and extremely effective.

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Speaker 2: I felt worthless. Tim would tell Anthony, your mother's bitch,

246
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Speaker 2: Your mother is no good, your mother's going to heaven sue,

247
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Speaker 2: these types of things, he would say to myself, his son.

248
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Speaker 2: And when you have a violent drug addict in front

249
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Speaker 2: of you, telling you and showing you you believe it,

250
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Speaker 2: you believe it with every ounce of anything you happen

251
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Speaker 2: to you.

252
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,560
Speaker 3: Things deteriorated to the point where Lizz's sister came to

253
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Speaker 3: check on her until Tim wasn't at home and decided

254
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Speaker 3: to take Anthony, fearing for his safety.

255
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Speaker 2: And I opened the door, I saw it was her,

256
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,840
Speaker 2: and I let her in as she saw the drugs

257
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Speaker 2: and the guns and the knives and the danger and

258
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Speaker 2: took Anthony from me as she said, You're not getting

259
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Speaker 2: him back, no way.

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Speaker 7: And I understood. I understood it.

261
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 3: But Tim did not and responded about as well as

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Speaker 3: you might expect.

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Speaker 2: So she had him for two weeks, and I was

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00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,040
Speaker 2: getting a lot of pressure from Tim too. He needed

265
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Speaker 2: to have a son who's going to kill me, take

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Speaker 2: Anthony to California and hide him underground. Nobody would ever

267
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,360
Speaker 2: find him again. And he said, and if he had to,

268
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,600
Speaker 2: he would kill my sister Karen and her husband to

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Speaker 2: go get Anthony.

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Speaker 4: You know, I did give in.

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Speaker 2: I could tell that my soul was just like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I want to be done forever. I couldn't do it anymore.

273
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,120
Speaker 2: But I got a burst of energy and wanted to

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Speaker 2: protect my family. So I ran and grabbed the gun

275
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Speaker 2: off the bed and was headed out the door, headed

276
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Speaker 2: out my front door, which had a bunch of locks,

277
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Speaker 2: on it, and I couldn't get it unlocked.

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Speaker 7: I was terrified.

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Speaker 2: I knew he was going to kill me and grab

280
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Speaker 2: that damn gun.

281
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Speaker 3: The incessant violence, the abuse and threats against her family

282
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Speaker 3: and her son finally pushed Liz over the edge.

283
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Speaker 2: And when I heard him come up behind me, I turned.

284
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Speaker 2: We said, Liz, but I'll tell you I snapped. It

285
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:30,920
Speaker 2: was so weird because I didn't care anymore.

286
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Speaker 7: I was ready.

287
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:33,680
Speaker 2: I told God, you know, I'm ready. He's going to

288
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,720
Speaker 2: kill me. I'm ready, you know, just please please please

289
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,480
Speaker 2: let my sister care and be the best mom to Anthony.

290
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,720
Speaker 2: You know, I was saying my prayers and I felt dead.

291
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,080
Speaker 2: I just felt like so hollow, worthless. It's over over,

292
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,440
Speaker 2: And I couldn't tell you what snapped. How I snapped.

293
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:57,000
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you. I remember picturing how he was

294
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Speaker 2: going to shoot everybody at my sister's and then take

295
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,760
Speaker 2: my little guy, who's going to be scared to death

296
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,000
Speaker 2: on a shootout. He said he would kill any cop

297
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,320
Speaker 2: that follows him to California.

298
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,560
Speaker 7: It was ohill, no, and so I turned to.

299
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,159
Speaker 2: Just shot at a bunch And I can't believe it,

300
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,880
Speaker 2: To be honest with you. I can't believe it happened.

301
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,520
Speaker 2: I can't believe I didn't die. I actually shot.

302
00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:26,320
Speaker 3: Him in two weeks after Michael Frankie's murder, Tim Natividad

303
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:32,879
Speaker 3: was dead. At Lizz's trial, her attorney submitted multiple records

304
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,399
Speaker 3: of domestic abuse into evidence, and several of the cops

305
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,480
Speaker 3: who arrested Tim during those disturbances showed up to testify.

306
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 3: Also on the stand was Lizzi's neighbor, who heard the

307
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,360
Speaker 3: sounds of Tim's violent and abusive behavior firsthand.

308
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,440
Speaker 2: Oh, my neighbor next door to us. I never met

309
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Speaker 2: her in my life. Listened to it all night and

310
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Speaker 2: all morning.

311
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,159
Speaker 7: So she was there, which was a shock to me.

312
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Speaker 4: I had no idea.

313
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,399
Speaker 2: She was on the stand and said I heard him

314
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,800
Speaker 2: clearly beat her that night and tell her he was

315
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,840
Speaker 2: going to kill her and kill her family. I heard

316
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,440
Speaker 2: the gunshots. I heard it all.

317
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,879
Speaker 3: Before the trial. Liz spent three months in jail, but

318
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,399
Speaker 3: compared to the hell she'd been trapped in, it was

319
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,639
Speaker 3: almost an escape.

320
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:28,359
Speaker 2: Ultimately, I was acquitted. Thank god, it just all came together.

321
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,560
Speaker 2: I talked to her myself. I looked at the jury

322
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,880
Speaker 2: and I said, you know, my attorney's going to help

323
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,879
Speaker 2: tell the story. This is how I lived, This is

324
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 2: my proof, the restraining orders, the police officers, my friends

325
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,600
Speaker 2: and family, women, chrisis center. I mean, I did everything

326
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,719
Speaker 2: I could. Thank god I was acquitted. Oh my God,

327
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:52,960
Speaker 2: thank God.

328
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 4: I remember that day.

329
00:18:55,240 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 2: I was so free. But I did still cry for

330
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,879
Speaker 2: a year because Tim had to die. Over all this,

331
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 2: I cried for a year. Although I had my son

332
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,360
Speaker 2: and I wanted to be stable, and I tried to

333
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:14,360
Speaker 2: be strong and stable for him. I had to get

334
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 2: it out of my system. And I went to my

335
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:21,399
Speaker 2: priest and confessed that I shot and killed Tim to

336
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,480
Speaker 2: save my life, and he said that God forgives me,

337
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 2: so that felt really good. I ran into several of

338
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 2: Tim's family members after this, and they hugged me tight

339
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:40,560
Speaker 2: and told me that they understood Timmy had some anger

340
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:45,359
Speaker 2: issues and drug problems, so they didn't hate me.

341
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,680
Speaker 3: But after Tim's death, pieces that connected his timeline to

342
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 3: Frankie's killing began to fall into place for Liz, starting

343
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,800
Speaker 3: with a large sum of money he'd supposedly come into

344
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,679
Speaker 3: soon after Frankie's murder, which meshes with an earlier story

345
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 3: from Greg Johnson that Natividad had received a payoff after

346
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 3: Frankie's death.

347
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 7: He didn't tell me where the money came from, but

348
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,480
Speaker 7: he did come into money.

349
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 2: We later found out that he hit it in the

350
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 2: fan of the bathroom the apartment where Tim died. There

351
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 2: was a story that Tim's brother got forty thousand dollars

352
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 2: out of the bathroom bent of Tim's money.

353
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 7: And I didn't.

354
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 3: Know if it was a rumor that incident would have

355
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,399
Speaker 3: happened while Liz was in prison awaiting trial.

356
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 7: I didn't know.

357
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 2: And my sister Karen is the one that cleaned my

358
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 2: apartment out when I went to jail, and Karen goes

359
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 2: it's so weirdless. The apartment manager came in and was

360
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 2: yelling at me for taking apart the bathroom bent, and

361
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,400
Speaker 2: I said, I didn't do it.

362
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,439
Speaker 7: You know, you leave me alone. I'm not taking the

363
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 7: apartment apart. I'm getting Lizzi's things out of here. I'm like,

364
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 7: oh my god.

365
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 3: That large sum, along with tim taunts about having killed

366
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 3: a man, continued to haunt Liz.

367
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 2: We really wanted to figure out who Tim killed. He

368
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 2: said he had killed someone. I believe it was at

369
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 2: my attorney's office. When we realized there were two people

370
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 2: that had died, and Michael Frankie was one of them.

371
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 2: I remember vaguely seeing it on the news, a whole bunch,

372
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 2: you know, the higher up was murdered, and you see

373
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 2: the police tape.

374
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 7: You know. I didn't pay a whole lot of attention

375
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:27,199
Speaker 7: to it.

376
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 3: But then something happened that did catch Liz's attention, the

377
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 3: release of the sketch known as the Man in the

378
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 3: Pinstripe Suit, and.

379
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 2: Then the composite drawing that came out in the newspaper

380
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,160
Speaker 2: and on the news. To me and my sister Karen,

381
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 2: it looked like Tim. We were shocked and said, oh

382
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 2: my god, it looks like Tim.

383
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 3: Interestingly enough, as we've touched upon earlier, that sketch barely

384
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 3: made it into the paper.

385
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 7: Well.

386
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 9: I was calling around trying to get the picture that

387
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 9: I heard the state police were circulating among corrections employees

388
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 9: trying to figure out who this man in the pinstripe

389
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 9: suit was. You know, why wouldn't they release it to

390
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 9: the press if it was of interest to the state police,

391
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 9: wouldn't release it? I called Dale Penn and he refused too.

392
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 9: He said no. I said why, and he said, because

393
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 9: it's not any good this is not very good.

394
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 3: Did he elaborate on what he meant by not good?

395
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 9: No, not to me. I personally didn't care whether it

396
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:29,919
Speaker 9: was good or bad. I wanted to get it, so

397
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 9: I kept calling and finally got a copy from Binda.

398
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 3: When you first saw that sketch, what were your thoughts?

399
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 9: I said, Wow, what a great drawing. It was really good,

400
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 9: and in fact it had been done by Joyce Boylan,

401
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 9: who was one of the top three police artists in

402
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 9: the country. It was an excellent sketch.

403
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 3: Kevin was back in Florida trying to pursue his brother's

404
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 3: case with long distance phone calls, which in those days

405
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 3: meant racking up thousands of dollars in phone bills. He'd

406
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 3: been told by Governor gold Schmidt to direct his questions

407
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 3: to Dale Penn, the district attorney assigned to Michael's case,

408
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 3: but Penn and Kevin didn't exactly get along.

409
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 10: He was a sniveling mealy mouth, wouldn't answer a question

410
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 10: directly when I say meely Mouth. And the first meeting

411
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 10: that we had was with my brother Binta and the

412
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 10: governor at the Governor's reception office outside of his official office,

413
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 10: and I was requesting a copy of the autopsy report,

414
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 10: and I addressed that request to Goldschmidt and he said

415
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 10: he's the Manda ask pointing to Dale Penn, and Dale

416
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 10: peg goes on this meetly mouth yeah, And I said,

417
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 10: is that a no? And then he couldn't even say no.

418
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 2: No.

419
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 3: Kevin felt he was fighting an uphill battle with Penn

420
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 3: from the beginning, especially over getting Mike's autopsy.

421
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 10: He finally agreed to give me a copy of the

422
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 10: autopsic report and he sent it to me in Florida,

423
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 10: and it was four pages that was probably eighty percent

424
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 10: blacked out, redacted, and it basically said Mike Frankie described

425
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 10: him and that he died stab wound, everything else blacked out.

426
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 10: It wasn't just a middle finger, it was a smirking

427
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 10: while at KICKI had the ribs. Here you go, sucker.

428
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 10: I guess you know his thinking is I'm thirty two

429
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 10: hundred miles away. What am I going to do?

430
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 3: But Kevin and his older brother Pat refused to settle

431
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 3: for the redacted report. They wouldn't settle for anything less

432
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 3: than the comp eat autopsy, even if they had to

433
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 3: fight for it. Here's Phil.

434
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 9: So they hired a lawyer in Salem, Steve Krassik, who's

435
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 9: been with them all this time, to sue state officials

436
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 9: to get an unredacted copy of the autopsy, which under law, they.

437
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 3: Were entitled to back to Kevin.

438
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 10: We did finally get a full copy of the autopsit report,

439
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 10: but it was through having to sue the State of

440
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 10: Oregon and all the individuals involved, including Dale Penn and

441
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 10: the Governor Goldschmidt, and we had pointed them to bring

442
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 10: them into court to justify withholding the autopsy report when

443
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 10: it's in the Oregon state law it's called the Brady Bill,

444
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 10: that the members of family are entitled to a full

445
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 10: copy of the autopsy report and any other medical information.

446
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 10: To have the district attorney and the head of the

447
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 10: state eight both denying what's written into the law of

448
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 10: the State of Oregon, into the constitution, and to have

449
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 10: them flaunt that, just the arrogance of those fucking bastards

450
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 10: is what grips me to this day. How could they

451
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 10: how dare they flaunting their authority?

452
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 3: Kevin recalls the day they finally received the report, we.

453
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 10: Were at Steve Crassock's office three point forty one State Street,

454
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 10: downtown sale Morgan just a few blocks from the courthouse,

455
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 10: and Steve had picked him up. I guess from Dale

456
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 10: Penn's office and brought it back to the office where

457
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 10: Pat and I were waiting, had flown in for the occasion.

458
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 3: Here's Pat's take on getting the unredacted version.

459
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 6: A year almost to the day, I was up here

460
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 6: and I got the full copy of the autopsy report.

461
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 6: I took that to New York and set with doctor

462
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 6: Michael Boden, who became famous years later with the OJ

463
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 6: Simpson case, and he read the thing. He got his

464
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 6: calculator out, and he told me that Mike probably didn't

465
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 6: love more than about six minutes. That he was fully

466
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 6: conscious for about two minutes and then was losing consciousness

467
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 6: after two minutes because of the severity the wound of nature,

468
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,239
Speaker 6: the wound that he would not have survived even if

469
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 6: he'd been in a hospital. That it was threw and

470
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 6: through and it just destroyed the whole part of his heart.

471
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 3: During the time the family was fighting for the autopsy,

472
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 3: they were also getting numerous twisted and anonymous tips claiming

473
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 3: that Mike had been mutilated or murdered by ritualistic torture.

474
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 10: It was months before they finally confirmed that there had

475
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 10: been no ritual type. It was purely defensive wounds and

476
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 10: attack wounds and the weather signs of mutilation. But it

477
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 10: took what shit six months to get that. So you're

478
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 10: living with these movies in your mind, atrocious, the feed

479
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 10: fire that you don't want lit in the first place.

480
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 10: So that was the first thing that I wanted out

481
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 10: of the whole thing, was to verify that Dale Penn's

482
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 10: tell me the truth when he says there's no mutilation,

483
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 10: because Dale Penn had a tendency to lie, and then

484
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 10: to be able to identify the nature, number and location

485
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 10: of the wounds, and how the entry wounds were made,

486
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 10: what sort of an angle, and in part of the

487
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 10: autopsy reported there isn't mention of what you see when

488
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 10: you see the autopsy photos. And there's obviously a picture

489
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 10: that shows that Mike was in a fight. He got

490
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 10: a pretty good whack in the head. The photos were

491
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 10: the worst because I knew Mike's brains sitting there running

492
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 10: it a million miles an hour as he's bleeding out

493
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 10: and knowing he's thinking of his family. That's it.

494
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 3: Sharing the unredacted autopsy and photos of Mike with their

495
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 3: parents was heartbreaking for the brothers.

496
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 10: I've never seen two people in more pain in my life, hurt,

497
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 10: I've worried about my kids. That scares me. If I

498
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 10: ever had to go through that, I'd probably put a

499
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 10: bullet in my head.

500
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: And then adding the insult that they were only shared

501
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 3: with Mike's family under duress and with a threat.

502
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 9: When they were given this unredacted copy, they were warned

503
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 9: not to let it leak. If it leaked, they would

504
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 9: be prosecuted. That was the atmosphere at the time.

505
00:29:58,360 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 3: That's incredible.

506
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 9: Takes the autopsy back to Kansas City and shows it

507
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 9: to the Old Man and they look at it. They

508
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 9: have questions since Dale Penn had assured them that they'd

509
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 9: run it by the FBI. The Old Man called someone

510
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 9: he knew, Clarence Kelly, former director of the FBI, who

511
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 9: had also been chief of police in Kansas City, and

512
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 9: asked him about it. And Kelly came back and said, no,

513
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 9: they never talked to us. And that's when the old

514
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 9: Man's world sort of fell apart. He said, they've been

515
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 9: lying to us. They've been lying to us. It was

516
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 9: as if they had not only killed his son, but

517
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 9: they'd sort of killed his faith and how things work,

518
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 9: how the world works, and he was crushed.

519
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 3: So Dale Penn told Michael Frankie's father that he had

520
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 3: run the autopsy past the FBI and that never happened.

521
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 9: That's what he found out.

522
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 10: Yeah, he apologize to me, He said, Dale Penn's been

523
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 10: lying into me. He's been lying to us, and it

524
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 10: crushed my dad. That was a professional, he's the greatest generation,

525
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 10: thirty years in the army, Colonel full Bird, Colonel. He's

526
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 10: a man that put his trust in God and country

527
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 10: and could not believe. And I think he felt that

528
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 10: I was being disrespectful when I was questioning the authority.

529
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 10: He was sad that I was right.

530
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: Let's go back to revisit the resistance to releasing the

531
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 3: sketch of the man in the pinstripe suit, which now

532
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 3: in light of the autopsy and FBI issue, seems more noteworthy.

533
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 3: Why do you think you were met with resistance?

534
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 9: That's another big puzzle here. But it's such a strange

535
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 9: place for them to lie. I mean, sometimes you have

536
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 9: to figure out what's going on by the lies they tell.

537
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 9: And that was definitely a lie on Pen's part.

538
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 3: It's almost as if they were afraid that someone would

539
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 3: see that sketch and recognize the person.

540
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's about the only thing you can conclude.

541
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 3: Kevin agrees that I bitched.

542
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 10: At him about not releasing the picture. I said, why

543
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 10: won't you release it? He says, well, it looks it

544
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 10: just looks like a lot of people. No, that's the problem.

545
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 10: That was the problem when it came out. I looked

546
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 10: at it and no, it doesn't look like a lot

547
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 10: of people. That it certainly eliminates a lot of people.

548
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 10: And the picture of the rain and Phil's column was horrible.

549
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 10: It was like a one inch by two inch facts

550
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 10: from thirty years ago, which you know, was like doing

551
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 10: little pencil dots and the thing. So everybody that saw

552
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 10: the column says, that looks like shit. But they were

553
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 10: forced then to put out the real one, and once

554
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 10: people well you've seen the real one. It looks like

555
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 10: a photograph.

556
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 3: And that's when Liz and her sister saw the drawing

557
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 3: of the man in the pin stripe suit.

558
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: I thought it looked like Tim Natividad. It did to

559
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 2: me and my sister immediately.

560
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 3: Immediately, the woman who had lived with natividad believed he

561
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 3: was the man in the pinstripe suit, and.

562
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: He dress is really nice. Sometimes he loved to dress

563
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 2: really nice. It was coming together for me. It just

564
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: started coming together. Okay, Tim's claiming to have a lot

565
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 2: of money. You know, he became so paranoid and violent

566
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 2: and you know, worse than ever before.

567
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 7: Started connecting dots for myself.

568
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 3: So Liz went to the police.

569
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 2: It's hard to remember exactly, but I do recall frustration

570
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: because I said, you, guys, I think Tim killed Michael Franken.

571
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 2: Look into it. Tim always carried a knife. Tim had

572
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 2: a huge knife collection. Tim was violent. Tim told me

573
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: he killed somebody, and I think it's Michael.

574
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 7: Look at this composite drawing.

575
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 3: And how did the police react to this bombshell?

576
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: They laughed and said, you can't convict a dead man.

577
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:20,959
Speaker 2: There's nothing we can do here.

578
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 3: That seems a pretty odd response from the police, particularly

579
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 3: since it could have led to the truth. Here's Pat's take.

580
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 6: No longer the light was on it, the more chance

581
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 6: was that the whole thing was going to blow up

582
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 6: in her face. So let's put it away, quiet it down,

583
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 6: make it go away.

584
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 3: And the easiest way to end the investigation into Michael

585
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 3: Frankie's murder and make the whole thing go away, find

586
00:34:48,320 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 3: someone to pin the murder on a patsy. On the

587
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 3: next murder in Oregon, an unlikely suspect is arrested.

588
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 10: There's so many other folks that are probably it, it

589
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 10: just didn't make.

590
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 3: Sense, and charged with the murder of Michael Frankie.

591
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: Mike Kieran's, a convict from the Idaho State Penitentiary, claims

592
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 2: Frank Gable told him he killed Frankie during a car.

593
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 3: Burglary, blind siding everyone, including Frank Gable.

594
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 9: I walked into a complicated drug ring and really don't

595
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 9: know how complicated it was until now.

596
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: Murder in Oregon is hosted by Lauren Bright Pacheco and

597
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 1: Phil Stanford. Executive producers are Noel Brown, Lauren Bright Pacheco,

598
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: and Phil Stanford. Supervising producer and lead editor is Taylor Chacogne.

599
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: Sound designed by Tristan McNeil, Story editing by Matt Riddle,

600
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: written by Phil Stanford, Matt Riddle, and Lauren Bright Pacheco.

601
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: Music written and performed by The Diamond Street Players and

602
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: mixed by Taylor Chacoyne with music supervision by Noel Brown,

603
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: Additional music by Tristan mc neil. Archival elements courtesy of

604
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: KGW in Portland, Oregon. The station behind the podcast Urged

605
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: to Kill Murder in Oregon is a production of iHeartRadio