1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. This is part two of 4 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: a two part series on pregnancy cravings. They called me Ben. 5 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 1: I texted my mom earlier to see if she had 6 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: any cravings while I was in utero, and I'll update 7 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: with with what we find if she gets back to me. 8 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: She's a busy person. What about you, Nold? Did we 9 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: talked about this at the beginning of part one, the 10 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: idea of pregnancy cravings, right, Yeah, just like I said, 11 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: the spicies up with my uh with my kid. Um, 12 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,559 Speaker 1: I don't really have that kind of relationship with my mom, 13 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: but um, she always has weird cravings. She likes to 14 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: eat like peanut butter and mayonnaise sandwiches. But that's has 15 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: something to do with pregnancy. Uh, She's she's an elderly 16 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: person at this point. But I just yeah, she's always 17 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: had weird taste, I imagine. I mean, you know what, 18 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: I'm going to broach the subject. Maybe it'll bring us 19 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: closer together of what she craved when she was pregnant 20 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: with me. I'm gonna guess, really, spicy like Chinese food. 21 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: But that's just a conjecture based on what I know 22 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: about her. But yeah, it's an interesting thing. It's an 23 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: interesting historical thing how it's been used to kind of 24 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: predict everything from you know, the size of a child's genitalia, 25 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: to what kind of adult they will end up becoming, 26 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: and what maybe some of their you know, tendencies will 27 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: be to this idea that does have kind of a 28 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: modern analog in epigenetics, this thing called the theory of 29 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: maternal imagination, the idea that experiences can be passed down 30 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: from the mother while don't still pregnant, to the fetus 31 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: that then will carry those experiences on throughout their life. 32 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: That's probably the closest thing to something that we have 33 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: seen some scientific evidence to back up. Although Ben, if 34 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, epigenetics is still something of a fringe science, 35 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: is it not. Well, it's definitely emergence. We're learning more 36 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: about it every day as a species, sort of the 37 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: same way that you and I are learning more every 38 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: day about our super producer, Max Williams. Max thought I forgot, 39 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: but that's sounding you in there there. It is the 40 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: largest asparagus, Max, the largest asparagus. Williams is live and direct. 41 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: You're you're absolutely right. Now. The study of how our 42 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: lives impact our descendants continues today, and I would argue 43 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: that the study of food cravings during pregnancy is a 44 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:02,839 Speaker 1: predecessor to our current studies in the field of epigenetics. 45 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 1: You know, we mentioned I believe in our in our 46 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: previous episode, we mentioned Nicholas Colepepper's work where he found 47 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: that food cravings were the quote chiefest signs of conception. 48 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: So back before people could get you know, a sonogram 49 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: or something like that, you would be a person, you know, 50 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: in the sixteen hundreds and you would say, man, why 51 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: do I want to only eat pickles? And then someone 52 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: would say, well, that's because that's that's because you're expecting 53 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: that's the only reason anybody would be into pickles this 54 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: much to this degree. And then you know, it was 55 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: solid well and like like we were saying to you know, 56 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: I mean, aside from the Egyptians, it seemed to have 57 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff on lock. Before anyone else got 58 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: to the idea of like what peeing on certain uh, 59 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: was it pieces of wheat or something like that, barley seeds? 60 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: And which ones would sprout the quickest. And then I 61 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: wonder you said that we we had some evidence just 62 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: to show that this was effective in predicting pregnancy. But 63 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: I wonder, is there some enzyme that's excreted in the 64 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: urine of a pregnant woman that maybe is conducive to 65 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: helping cultivate barley or or is there I don't know, 66 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: We don't we we didn't quite get that far into it, 67 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: but it is interesting. And the Egyptians did figure out 68 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: some pretty science e stuff before they really had any 69 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: business doing so, just based on the available wisdom and 70 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: technology of the time. But they made those pyramids somehow. 71 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: But we do know that the idea of certain cravings 72 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: or certain bodily changes are often good predictors even today, um, 73 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: when you know, like you said, women know their body 74 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: and know when something is changing. But it was really 75 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: taken to the extreme right, the absolute extreme, back in 76 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: the sixteenth, seventeenth and even the eighteenth century. Uh, And 77 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: today's episode, I'm just gonna do a tiny little previously 78 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: on the last thing we talked about her one of 79 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: aside from throwing strawberries at at at pregnant women, um, 80 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: either hindering or bringing about these strawberry birthmarks that we 81 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,239 Speaker 1: we know our thing. There was a story of the 82 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: midwife by the name of Sarah Stone, and Sarah Stone 83 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: was a very prominent eighteenth century midwife who took copious 84 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: notes and you know, went through and assisted in hundreds 85 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: of pregnancies. And out of all of those pregnancies, one 86 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: involving a woman who was having some very heavy bleeding 87 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: that could have you know, caused her to actually bleed out. 88 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: That is a thing that happens, but it was stopped 89 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: when she realized that she had been just longing for 90 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: craving a peapod or some kind of you know, like 91 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: a salad made of peace. And when the midwife was 92 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: able to get that for her, the bleeding stopped. So Ben, 93 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: you used the term confirmation bias, which is the idea 94 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: of something enhancing a belief when it happens, maybe even 95 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: only once, And that is absolutely the case here, because 96 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: in all of the rest of her notes, there were 97 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: no other examples of some sort of satiated craving instantly 98 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: causing a very dangerous complication to to go away. But 99 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: you know, moving on in history, some of these cravings 100 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: get absolutely bonkers. Don't they bear? They do. Yes, that's 101 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: that's correct, and it ties into some of the many 102 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: stereotypes the medical community had about women in general at 103 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: the time. They would describe some cravings as quote hysterical, 104 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: and we've all heard the phrase hysterical, but sometimes I 105 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: think people forget the etymology of that word. The term 106 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: hysteria itself comes from a Greek word hystera, which means uterus. 107 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: So be careful with the word hysterical. It's it's historically 108 00:06:54,720 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: used to dismiss the very valid and legitimate concerns of women. 109 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 1: So imagine you're a doctor, you're a midwife six century, 110 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: and you're noting that some expectant mothers seem to have 111 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: an incredible desire for certain foods. They have an excessive 112 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: desire something that one German text It's Miller's Abridged or 113 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: a Complete System of Theory and Practice of Physics, would 114 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: call a quote violent and insatiable longing. Uh. This this 115 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: is this is something people were aware of. There would 116 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: be very specific and sometimes extreme desires for certain foods, 117 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: but people also noticed that at times these cravings could 118 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: become even more unorthodox. Some expected mothers appear to desire 119 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: things that are not usually classified as food. You know, 120 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: this condition is known as pica today p I c 121 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: A and that comes from the Latin, which means magpie. 122 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: And we can only assume that this word comes about 123 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: because people with this afflection collected all sorts of weird 124 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: stuff to eat, like nickels, stickers. I'm making these things up, 125 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: hopefully not cans, paint um, toenails. Maybe they were eating toenails. 126 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's certainly possible, but we we know 127 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: these conditions exist. And I actually have a friend who 128 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: has a form of of pike ar pica where she 129 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: craves eating clay, uh specifically like a kalin just like 130 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: a Georgia, a Georgia thing. It's like, you can get it. 131 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: It's it's edible, and it's it's it's got some kind 132 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: of nutritional qualities to it. But it is something that 133 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: she eats in place of just wanting to like literally 134 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: eat dirt. So people that have this condition kind of 135 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: need to mitigate it in some way, right, But there 136 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: are extreme examples, very rare examples, one in particular known 137 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: as extreme polyphasia. We actually did an episode on this guy. 138 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,239 Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken a former French soldier and sideshow 139 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: artist named Terrere who was accused of actually eating a 140 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: baby out of a maternity ward. It's kind of weird, 141 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: full circle. They're unverified, unverified, but we do know that 142 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: he would eat things like candles and nails and that's 143 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: part of his Apparently the smell was absolutely unbearable, but 144 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: it's true. There are some extreme examples noted in some 145 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: midwife you know collections of notes that do show some 146 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: forms of this and pregnant women. Yeah, yeah, and you know, 147 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: shout out to cal and I tried it on a 148 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: show that I used to do with our colleague Lauren 149 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: vocal Bomb called snack Stuff, which is I'm pretty sure 150 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: still kicking it a out of Facebook somewhere. But we 151 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: we ate a lot of weird stuff. Yes, you're right. No, 152 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: people have followed their cravings, and these cravings were not 153 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 1: always for things that we would ordinarily consider food, like 154 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: the clay example. Hopefully I am just making up the 155 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: nickel and stickers thing. But most unusually, some expecting mothers 156 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: apparently developed an appetite for long pig. Long pig is 157 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: the old historical euphemism for human flesh. In six seventy 158 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: one midwife named Jane Sharp wrote a book called The 159 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: Midwives Book, and she said the seventh sign that a 160 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: woman was with child was that quote, she hath a 161 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: preternatural desire to something not fit to eat nor drink, 162 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 1: as some women with child have loaned to bite off 163 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: a piece of their husband's buttocks. Husband's buttocks, by the way, 164 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: you should point out those are capitalized. Now you gotta wonder, 165 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: is this really a specific craving for human flesh or 166 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: she's just angry and irritated at the husband and in 167 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: a in a bad mood and wants to bite him 168 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,599 Speaker 1: in the ass? Right? Is it in any old but 169 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: will do situation? Or is it like, no, you jerk, 170 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: you got me into this exactly. Um, So that's okay 171 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: once again, Ben, in all the collections of all the midwives, 172 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, we probably have just one or two examples 173 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: of this, and yet it kind of invaded the Zeitgeister, 174 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: became conventional wisdom, even though when it was very um 175 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: confirmation by a city. So okay, we've got women who 176 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: are now trying to bite their husband's butts. Um, We've 177 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: got Daniel Center in his book Practical physic He claimed 178 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: that a woman quote though she loved him her husband, 179 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: that is very well, had killed him, eat part and 180 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: powdered the rest to satisfy her desire for his flesh. Yeah. Yeah, 181 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: And I love the point you bring up about these 182 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: being isolated incidents in the in the historical record. But 183 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: it's not a case of just one instance. There's another 184 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: medical text, a Golden Practice of Physics, which has spelled 185 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: the old school way p H Y s I c K. 186 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: And in this in this medical text by a guy 187 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: named Felix platter Uh, the author warrens quote, some love 188 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: raw flesh like min eaters, min eaters, but all one word. 189 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: Some have been like beasts and bitten people's arms by violence. 190 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: So this was jokes aside. This was a cause of 191 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: concern for medical professionals of the day because they knew 192 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: that these cravings were coming from somewhere, and you had 193 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: to do a kind of a cost benefit analysis. If 194 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: we aid and abet someone having an extreme craving like cannibalism, 195 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: then we have to also wonder if there is a 196 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: danger in denying this craving, if they're endangering the child, 197 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: like if someone is saying, okay, I want to eat 198 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: I want to eat this clay, and you say, well, 199 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: this clay has no nutritional value, but your body is 200 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: saying you want it. Who am I to deny you? 201 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: And and at this point, you know, in the six 202 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: people don't have the benefit of the medical knowledge we 203 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: have today. So it's not as if you could go 204 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: to a doctor, get a series of like blood tests, 205 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: get your b am I checked, and then be put 206 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: on a nutritious diet. You would literally really think, well, 207 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: should I eat this soft cheese? Should I eat these 208 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: rabbit heads? What are they gonna do to my kids? 209 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: And why is my body telling me I have to 210 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: eat these now? Also, if you're a woman in the 211 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: sixteen hundreds, as terrible as it is to admit, we 212 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: have to tell the truth here. People just don't believe 213 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: women in the six and even today. Not only do 214 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: they not, I mean like to talk about man splaining, 215 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: I mean that term it was just at its absolute 216 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: peak back in those days. Especially Again, that's also why 217 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: I appreciate that midwives and these wise women were often 218 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: the go to, you know, individuals in these situations, but 219 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: they were operating largely on wisdom that was passed down 220 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: from men like we talked about Hippocrates, we talked about Aristotle. 221 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: I believe, so a lot of that kind of incorrect 222 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: stuff that maybe they would have used to not believe 223 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: their own bodies, uh, instead to to kind of throw 224 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: that intuition that they absolutely have out the window and 225 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: just go with these you know, quote unquote powerful men. 226 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: That's a negative force as well, I think in this 227 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: whole situation. But these types of superstitions, right, and this 228 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: stigma of you know what these uh, these cravings meant 229 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: in pregnancy and after really hung on a lot longer 230 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: than you'd think. You know, we're talking about medieval times, right, Okay, 231 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: all this stuff makes sense. Seventeenth century Okay, maybe, okay, 232 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: there should be some remnants, but it should be mainly 233 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: going in a little bit more of a progressive direction. 234 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: Eighteenth century, surely. No, in the ninete centuries, you still 235 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: had a lot of this very you know, kind of 236 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: superstitious and wrongheaded thinking wrapped up in pregnancy and those cravings. Yeah, 237 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: in the middle of the eighteen hundreds, one guy, Joel 238 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: Shoe called pregnancy cravings overall abnormal, and he said that 239 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: women who have these cravings tend to be quote those 240 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: who suffer from into just should those who have constipation, 241 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: and especially those who are hysterical any ignorant nervous women 242 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: seem to suppose that it really is a necessary part 243 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: would there be to have these logs in pregnancy nets. 244 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: Can I get a like get out of here sound 245 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: cue or something, because this guy just forget him. I mean, 246 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: he's using hysteria in the misogynistic way, like he's on 247 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: purpose using it to dismiss the concerns of these expecting mothers. 248 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: He goes on and he says, we need hardly see 249 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: that these longings should never be gratified. No possible good 250 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: can come from it, only harm. The same as at 251 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: other times talk about man splating Noll. This guy isn't 252 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: a real pill exactly. Not the soapbox too much. But 253 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: it's something we still deal with today in terms of 254 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: these kind of powerful men dictating what women should or 255 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: shouldn't or can and can't do with their bodies. Uh, 256 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: it's very much a product of this type of thinking 257 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: that's been going on throughout history. We do start to 258 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: see a little bit more progressive thinking, relatively speaking, in 259 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: the twentieth century, early twentieth century. When it comes to 260 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: starting to debunk some of this superstition, we have Josiah 261 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: Morris Siemens, who was a a well known physician who 262 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: addressed the issue of maternal imagination which we talked about, 263 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: which was really almost a product of folklore and had 264 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: become kind of morphed into this notion that if you 265 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: didn't gratify these maternal cravings then there would be great 266 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: harm done onto the child by malevolent spirits or forces. Right, 267 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 1: and Siemens had this to say, Uh, there is a 268 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: well known tradition that women who are pregnant are subject 269 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 1: to longings for one article of diet or another, and 270 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: that unless the desire to be promptly gratified, the child 271 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: will be marked. Uh. This evidently is nonsense. A prospective 272 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: mother everyone else does frequently desire one article of food 273 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,239 Speaker 1: more than another. So long as the object of her 274 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: wish is not obviously harmful, it should be granted. But 275 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: if it is not granted, no harm will come to 276 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: the child. Boom. That's about as progressive as we're gonna 277 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: get at this point. I would say, Yeah, I think 278 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: that's pretty reasonable, because what Slimmons is basically saying, is 279 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: you know, if someone wants If someone wants a bunch 280 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: of grapes and plums, then fine, let them, Let let 281 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: them eat what they will. But if someone wants like plutonium, 282 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: then you know, maybe maybe have a check in. Maybe 283 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: have a check in before you start eating uh plutonium. 284 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: Slimmons also says that popular culture has affected people's perceptions 285 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: of what pregnant women do and do not want, and 286 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: he notes that remarkable instances in which disgusting substances have 287 00:18:55,240 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: been craved and eaten are often talked about, and slim 288 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: points out they've even found these stories, these anecdotes have 289 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: even found their way into fiction. But he also seems 290 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: to note that there is a little bit of cherry 291 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,959 Speaker 1: picking here, right. People are looking for the most sensationalist, 292 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: tabloyd e buzzfeedy kind of stories, and this leads Slimmons 293 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: to conclude that the people who have these abnormal and 294 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: or dangerous cravings are unfortunate victims who are not of 295 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: sound of mind. So he is arguing that there is 296 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: something else going on. It's not just the pregnancy, right, 297 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 1: there is there is some other factor at play, and 298 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: this is I think a very sound position to take. 299 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 1: There is a good basis for his thoughts here. But 300 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: you know, at this point, it's strange, folks, Because Max 301 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: and Nolan I are recording this episode in two parts. 302 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: We wanted to give the subject it's it's full do 303 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: and no. You know, I cannot wait to hear everybody's 304 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: stories about their own experiences with food cravings during pregnancy. 305 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: I have a couple of close friends whose mother's famously 306 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: had very strange cravings. My mother just got back to me, 307 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: as we said in the beginning of this episode, and 308 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:37,959 Speaker 1: apparently I'm a pickle boy. Yeah, apparently was all pickles. 309 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: That's what did it? Huh. I don't really eat pickles, 310 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: you know, I've I've only in maybe the last handful 311 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: of years, come around two pickles. I don't really like 312 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: them on their own. I like them on certain types 313 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: of sandwiches and stuff. I like pickled things, but I 314 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: would you know, you see people eat a giant, you know, 315 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: pickled spear like a dope. That just doesn't do it 316 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: for me. But I know they they're definitely a certain 317 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: flavor profile. Well, I guess as a pickle boy myself, 318 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: I love that term. Now I'm gonna start using that convention. 319 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: What what do you guys think? Uh? Max, you think 320 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: we can pull off pickle boy and just random conversation 321 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: like look at that pickle boy? Oh, most definitely we can, 322 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: most definitely. Thanks for thanks for supporting, validated and enabling 323 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: us facts. I will always enable you all. So So, No, 324 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: it's actually pretty on point for my mom to have 325 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: said that she was desirous of pickles, because right now, 326 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: in the modern era, the stereotypical crazy snack for expected 327 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: mothers is apparently pickles and ice cream. So, going back 328 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: to part one, Man, I am convinced I haven't checked yet. 329 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: I'm convinced if there is not such a thing as 330 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: like still pickle ice cream, we can make bank on this. 331 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: We can come out with ridiculous history pickle ice cream, 332 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: and and the tagline is it's straight seahorse teeth, it is, indeed, 333 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: it is indeed. Um, just the idea of those things together, 334 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: um really make me completely nauseous. Uh, surely we pickle 335 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: ice cream exists so right as a as a thing nowadays. 336 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: Pickle ice cream, Yes, Nona's pickle ice cream. There's a 337 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: frozen pickle you can get a pickle ice freeze pop 338 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: uh and then dull es a gelato has a pickle 339 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: ice cream flavor, and Lucky Pickle Dumpling Company this seems 340 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: like a smaller brand also has debuted a pickle ice cream, 341 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: so it exists if you're really down with it. But 342 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 1: I think typically folks, you know, usually go for one 343 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: or the other. I'm seeing pictures here that are really 344 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: making my stomach turn. There's like a nice waffle cone 345 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: with a soft served swirl of green ice cream with 346 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: dill sprinkles on it, and an actual looks like more 347 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: like a gherkin, you know, those little pickles almost in 348 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: place of like the cookie. You know, what is it? 349 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: A tweel kind of situations? So pretty gross. But if 350 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,479 Speaker 1: that's what does it for you? Who who am I 351 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: to say? I'm not out here to yuck someone's yum. 352 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: I do want to point out, while I myself, oddly enough, 353 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 1: am not a not a personal fan in the pickle, 354 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,479 Speaker 1: you can find recipes online to create your own pickle 355 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: ice cream if the spirit moves you so. But why 356 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: did this become such a cliche? If you look back 357 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: through the newspapers of the US in the early twentie century, 358 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: you'll see tons of mentions of pickles and ice cream 359 00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: associated both with pregnancy and without. Like chure es and 360 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: schools and your rotary club or your Lions club. They 361 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: would put on picnics social gatherings that included ice cream 362 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: and pickles because these were treats, delicacies, tasty things that 363 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: people could make at home. And this was before the 364 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: time of commercialized, mass produced food and distribution. So, for instance, 365 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: if you were the Masons in breck and Ridge, Kentucky 366 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: in the nine twenties, you would have a lunch with 367 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: a menu that included things like beef roast, potatoes, pickles, 368 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: and ice cream, because those are all things you can 369 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: make at home. So as weird as it sounds right 370 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: now for someone to say, oh, I'm expecting all I 371 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: want our pickles, all I want is ice cream, then 372 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 1: we have to understand that in the context of history, 373 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: it's not that weird because they're common foods. Yeah, that's true, 374 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: and it's something that we even see, like absolutely become 375 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: a trope in pop culture. Right like in the fifties, 376 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: we have probably one of the most popular comedy shows 377 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: in the universe still remains one of them to this day. 378 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: I Love Lucy which also incredibly interesting feminist story in 379 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: terms of Lucille Ball and the way that she essentially 380 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: started you know, her own empire. Um. You know, Ricky 381 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: was involved to Ricky Ricardo, her husband, but Lucille was 382 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: really the one who was the driving force behind it. 383 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: She pioneered multi camera shoots for sitcoms the look that 384 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: we know today, uh, you know, in terms of like 385 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: shows like Friends or like more kind of traditional sitcoms. 386 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,719 Speaker 1: That was all Lucy, and she insisted on having creative 387 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: control and also getting paid, as did Ricky. But Lucy 388 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: really was absolutely toe to toe with with Ricky in 389 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: terms of, you know, control over that empire even when 390 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: they split. But in a famous episode of I Love 391 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: Lucy UM, where Lucy is actually pregnant, Lucille Ball is 392 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: that pregnant. She plays her character as being pregnant on 393 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: the show as well. Lucy sends Ricky out to get 394 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: a Papaya milkshake, which would have been a nod to 395 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: his Cuban roots, I believe, and also and a dill pickle. 396 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: So that really is kind of like almost one of 397 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: the earliest examples of pickles and ice cream that we 398 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: see in pop culture. And then he comes back and 399 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: he looks, uh, you know, like kind of like he's 400 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: been through the ringer, and she asks, you know, indignantly, 401 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: what took you so long, to which he replies, what 402 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: took me so long? I had to go all over 403 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: town because you know, Papia milkshake would have been a 404 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 1: very specific thing. Then she dips the pickle and the 405 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: milkshake and eats it, and we get a big laugh 406 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: out of that, you know, from the audience, because that 407 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: would have been something they hadn't really experienced before and 408 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: would have been absurd, but also it was the beginning 409 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: of a real trope. Oh yeah. And then go back 410 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: even further in nineteen nineteen, you'll see comic strips commenting 411 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 1: on this, like Mutton Jeff cartoons have My and Jeff 412 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: famously saying, cut out that toss in about in your sleep, 413 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: I told you not to eat those pickles in that 414 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: ice cream before you went to bed. And this this 415 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: shows up right, and it's everywhere in fiction. It's in 416 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: I Love Lucy, it's in comic strips, it's on stage 417 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: and screen, and really since the era of I Love Lucy. 418 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: Pickles and ice cream have been cemented in US popular 419 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: culture as this cliche, this sort of shorthand for pregnancy. 420 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: If you go to I Love This website, if you've 421 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 1: never heard about this before, I want to warn you 422 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: it is going to eat your entire afternoon. There is 423 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: a there's a fantastic website called TV Tropes. Be warned 424 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: it is a time vampire. And and if you go 425 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: to TV Tropes, check out their Wacky Cravings page where 426 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: they list all these examples of different tie that pickles 427 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: and ice cream have been used in fiction to refer 428 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: to pregnancy. It even shows up in romance novels. And 429 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: there are you know, of course, no shortage of cookbooks 430 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: specifically for expecting parents, and they talk about pickles and 431 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: ice cream as well. It's a joke. And I don't know, like, 432 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: I don't know how many people actually do crave pickles 433 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: and ice cream? Like do we have aside from you know, 434 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: works of fiction like Mutton Jeff and I Love Lucy. 435 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: Is there someone who specifically said I really do need 436 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: pickles and I really do need ice cream? And if so, 437 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: what flavor of ice cream? I'm just so curious, man, 438 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: it's a weird one. Ben. It's almost like Luke, I 439 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: am your father. Right. It gets reported so much that 440 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: that's what the line was, that people start to believe 441 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: that's actually what the line was. I almost think that 442 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: pickles and ice cream is more of a creation of 443 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: pop culture and fiction than perhaps the exact craving of 444 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: those items. But it represents a larger history of these 445 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: types of cravings. Right, it's just sort of the most 446 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: extreme one that's good for some laughs because it's so ridiculous, uh, 447 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: And it also kind of brings across this very historical 448 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: and understandable thing. It's very much part of the human 449 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: experience as we know, because it goes way way far back. 450 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: Another example is in a similar I think it was 451 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: in the same Lucy episode, she also sends Ricky back 452 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: out again at four am to get pistachio ice cream 453 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: and fudge, which she eats topped with sardines. So it's 454 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: really just kind of this gross confluence of savory and sweet, 455 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: and it's just sort of meant to indicate that, like 456 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: things are just wild, you know, in the mind of 457 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: a pregnant woman or in the body or rather of 458 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: a pregnant woman that things are just going absolutely bonkers. Yeah, 459 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: and you know, this touches on an interest point raised 460 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: by Rebecca Onion, who is writing about hysterical cravings on 461 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: slate dot com. This is a great article, and in 462 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: this article, Onion points out that it's kind of weird 463 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: that women apparently have to have these special extenuating circumstances. 464 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: Right the way this joke goes, the hapless husband has 465 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: to go out, you know, at three am for pickles 466 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,959 Speaker 1: and ice cream or pistachios or sardines or what have you. 467 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: Why can't you just ask your partner to do something 468 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: for you, you know what I mean? Like, why does 469 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: it have to be, Oh, this person is crazy because 470 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: they're pregnant. Like, I get it. It's you know, if 471 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: you're in a relationship with someone, you should want to 472 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: help them regardless, right, regardless of whether they're expecting. Like, 473 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: if you're dating someone right now and they say, you 474 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: know what I need? I need a pretzel hot dog, 475 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: then help him out, you know what I mean. They 476 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: don't have to They're doesn't have to be a special 477 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: reason that they want a pretzel hot dog. I think 478 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: you should just have people's backs. But again, but again, 479 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: your mileage may vary on a cultural level. We know 480 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: that other cultures have a deep understanding or a long 481 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: fascination with pregnancy cravings. And one of our one of 482 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: our most interesting examples comes from the Hindu culture. Right now, 483 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: it absolutely does bend um. In the Hindu culture, the 484 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: idea of pregnancy cravings is very much codified in many 485 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: of their writings. They have specific words for these things. 486 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: One of them is dohata, which means too heartedness. And 487 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: this is a concept that makes a lot of sense. 488 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: That you're a woman who is pregnant literally has two 489 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: hearts in her body. And so the idea of this 490 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: two heartedness encapsulates the idea of this second heart and 491 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: I can soul or will I guess within the mother 492 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,239 Speaker 1: and the idea of kind of feeding these cravings is 493 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: meant to cultivate like a prosperity within the growing life 494 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: within the Body's very much important in the Hindu culture 495 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: to um satiate these these cravings, to satisfy those cravings 496 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: in whatever way they might make themselves known. Yeah, yeah, 497 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: And then we see other examples in Kenyan culture where 498 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: it's thought that the song go an agent of health 499 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: present in the bodies of women is essential for life 500 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: and day to day digestion and successful reproduction. So when 501 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: a woman becomes pregnant, the song Go looks after the 502 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: kid and watches over how food is transported from the 503 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: mother to the child, ensuring that everything is five by 504 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: five on the mom's side. Kenyan culture, we should not. 505 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: It does not specify what a woman should do regarding 506 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: particular food cravings, but it does demand that an expectant 507 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: mother balance food intake to prevent the song Go from 508 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: becoming too strong or too weak. Because, just like the 509 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: contradictory information we saw in part one of this episode, 510 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: there's this idea of balance, right, there's this idea that 511 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: eating too many strawberries reading no strawberries can have an 512 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: equally delatorious potential impact on the child. But you don't 513 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: know before we go, before we before we call it 514 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: a day on part two of this series, remember in 515 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: part one we talked about ancient pregnancy tests. We found 516 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: a couple of other historical pregnancy tests that we wanted 517 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: to share with you today. Ridiculous. His story is uh, 518 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: I guess you would call them piss profits pp profits? Yeah, yeah, 519 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,439 Speaker 1: does this is this anything to do with those old 520 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: ancient Egyptian pan on barley tests. If this is not, 521 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: then it definitely seems to have a similar systemilar genre 522 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 1: of things. Right, I'll answer my question. It's not exactly 523 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: the same, but it does sort of have a similar 524 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: borderline scientific um yet ultimately somewhat arbitrary method to its madness. 525 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: This is the idea of using urine to diagnose different conditions. 526 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: I think just about the only one that we can 527 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,959 Speaker 1: use for real is dehydration. I think if you're urine 528 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: is super super super orange, that means you're like dehydrated. Um. 529 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: But they would take it to the extremes in the 530 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: Middle Ages and up until the seventeenth century. Like you said, 531 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: ben Uh, this is known as euroscopy, and they even 532 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 1: had something called the euroscopy wheel that would help with diagnosis. 533 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,760 Speaker 1: It was all graded by color, so for example, clear 534 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: pale lemon color leaning toward the off white, perhaps with 535 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: a little bit of a cloudiness to its surface, that 536 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: would be something that would indicate pregnancy potentially. Right. Also, 537 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: they would sometimes mix the urine with wine and see 538 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: how the alcohol kind of you know, intermingled with the 539 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,439 Speaker 1: urine and that would be another way of seeing if 540 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: if a woman was pregnant or not. Yeah, that's a lot, 541 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: that's that's all true, that all actually happened. And if 542 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: we fast forward to the early twentieth century, we see 543 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: the scientists discovered the rule hormones can play in female reproduction, 544 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 1: and they identified a specific hormone was present only in 545 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: expectant mothers. It's called h c G max. Help help 546 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: me out with a sound cue here as I mispronounced 547 00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:11,240 Speaker 1: this human choreotic gonado trup god add to trop in, gona, tropin, 548 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: gondo trop in. Okay, Well, we'll keep all three of those. 549 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: One of those, hopefully is right back in the nineteen thirties, 550 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: and the doctors figured out a way to test for 551 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: the presence of hCG and it's it's a little weird, 552 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,879 Speaker 1: it's a weird flex. Here's what they did. All they 553 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: they would inject urine from a human into an immature mouse, rat, frog, 554 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: or even sometimes a rabbit, and if the woman who 555 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: produced the urine was pregnant, then this test subject would 556 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: go into heat despite being a juvenile. So for a while, 557 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: to announce their pregnancy status, some women would use euphemisms 558 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: like the mouse died or I killed the easter bunny 559 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: because you had to kill and dissect the animal to 560 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,399 Speaker 1: confirm the results. That is messed up. It's so messed up, 561 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: and again very very imprecise, not even imprecise, just absolute. 562 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: Look at me, Max cradling his forehead and sadness. I'm sorry, Bro, 563 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: I know he didn't sign up for this. It's okay, Max, 564 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: you didn't kill the easter bunny. Bro, it wasn't you. 565 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 1: It was these animals from the the twenties and thirties 566 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,280 Speaker 1: got again like it's it's it's it's it's insane how 567 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: much this stuff carried over into relatively modern times. Right, 568 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 1: Thankfully we have actual you know, strips you can pee 569 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 1: on now that will turn a color you know, or 570 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,280 Speaker 1: give you a plus sign? Which one is it? Plus? 571 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: The good one? I forget, I can't remember. There's one 572 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: where it's like you get two stripes one stripe, but 573 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: what a wild ride? Well, you know it's I gotta say. 574 00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: The whole time we've been recording this week's series, I've 575 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: just I've been thinking about our fellow ridiculous historians who 576 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: are expecting kids as they hear this, you know, and 577 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: just shout out to you folks. It's gonna be amazing. 578 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: And I know that these kinds of things can be challenging, 579 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: you know, and they can be scary, but they're huge 580 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: and I would like to just I think all of 581 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: us on on the show today would like to congratulate 582 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: the expecting parents in the crowd. Yeah for sure. And 583 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: I'd like to congratulate you Ben for getting through this, uh, 584 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: this massive two part episode about eating weird food and 585 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: pregnancy and all of this stuff. Uh, this isn'tssary that 586 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: we're particularly qualified to discuss nor as any of the 587 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,359 Speaker 1: topics that we do here on Ridiculous History, but that's 588 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 1: sort of part of the front of the show and 589 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 1: we hope you agree Ridiculous Historians. But I think that 590 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,799 Speaker 1: does it for this too part or band that we 591 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: totally decided to do in advance. We did. We did 592 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: kudos to us, pickles and ice cream all around Max Square. 593 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: We add on that largest asparagus. So I've done a 594 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: little bit of some you know, research here and I 595 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: got the largest asparagus in history. It is from Harry 596 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: and Carson Willems. I've probably saying that last name wrong. 597 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: They are a port Elegant Canada and it came in 598 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 1: at three hundred and fifty one point seven centimeters or 599 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 1: about eleven and a half feet. What, yes, eleven and 600 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 1: a half foot sparagus. Remember these just grow straight out 601 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: of the ground, just like kaij asparagus. What kind of 602 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: weight are we talking here? Max? I Unfortunately it's not listed. 603 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: And unfortunately I don't think asparagus last generally pretty long 604 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: because this is from two thousand and four. So I 605 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 1: think we're gonna have to put a challenge out there 606 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,320 Speaker 1: into like, you know, the universe. We need a larger 607 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 1: asparagus in this and we need now because I've done 608 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 1: some more research. There is pickle ice cream. There is 609 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: asparagus ice cream. There is not a pickle asparagus ice cream. There. 610 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: He is, that's our that's our guy right there, Max Williams. 611 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: Larry is Max with the facts once again. Uh, he 612 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: has our backs. I'm sorry, I'm in a rhyming move this, Moe. 613 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: This was fun, dude. Uh yeah, world's largest spar What 614 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: did you say, Max? It was one thirty eight point 615 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: five inches. That's in the Guinness Book of World Records. 616 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: That I'm seeing that's it. That's the one. Oh no, no, Max, Max, 617 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, buddy, I think I got you beat. I 618 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: think this one I'm seeing is from and the family 619 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 1: of Charlotte Briggs and her wife in Pioneer Valley wherever 620 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 1: that is. And there's even a picture of it with 621 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 1: some kids, um standing next to it for scale. So 622 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,280 Speaker 1: I think maybe I got you beat. Not by much, though, Guys, 623 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: stop everything. Nope, nope, we have to figure out this 624 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: asparagus question. I'm kidding a little bit, fellow ridiculous historians. 625 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,720 Speaker 1: We are. We are going to call it a day. 626 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,760 Speaker 1: But as you know, one story leads to another. So Noel, Max, 627 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: I propose that we get offline and we really dig 628 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: down into this asparagus question. This might be a new mission. 629 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: This could be big for us. Oh my got Max. 630 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: You're right. Um. I found this article I think the 631 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: same way you're looking at in the Greenfield Recorder, where 632 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: it looks like some local they're thought they had the 633 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 1: world's biggest asparagus, but then an asparagus expert of some 634 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: sort kind of chiming and say, oh, hold hold the phone. 635 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 1: Uh huh, yeah, there's actually a much larger one from 636 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: from two thousand four. So it's hotly contested, but I 637 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: think you are on the right track, my friend. Well, 638 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 1: you know, I have to say, Max, I am impressed 639 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,400 Speaker 1: that you went and actually you dug this up. This 640 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: has been a wild ride. We hope that it has 641 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: been helpful, and you don't know. I cannot wait to 642 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: hear about people's own experiences with food cravings. Yes, of 643 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: course for expectant mothers, but also are there any other 644 00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: weird cravings that you just get for some reason? And 645 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: if so, why we'd love to hear from you. You 646 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook and Ridiculous Historians. You can 647 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: also find us on our email. We went legit, right, 648 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 1: we got an email addressed now we gotta have Yeah, 649 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,959 Speaker 1: what is it ridiculous that I heart media dot com? Right, Yeah, 650 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: that's right, ridiculous at I heart media dot Com. Thanks 651 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 1: as always to our superproducers, one and only Max Williams 652 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: as well as superproducer Casey Pegroom. I gotta ask you know, 653 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: what do you think the Quisters take would have been 654 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 1: on on the history of food cravings? Probably something weird 655 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 1: about like meat fruit remember those? Like we were some 656 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,399 Speaker 1: weird Renaissance Fair stuff you know, uh, you know, he's 657 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,240 Speaker 1: into that kind of thing. Oh and it's a bummer 658 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 1: because the Renaissance Fair just ended here in Georgia and 659 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 1: I didn't get to go this year. It's over. It's over. 660 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: Last weekend was the last weekend. Hang it. It's a 661 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: fun time. It's a fun time. And if you go 662 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,000 Speaker 1: and you want to meet the Quister in person next year, 663 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: just ask around for the Admiral. It's one of his 664 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 1: other many alter egos. And as always, huge shout out 665 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 1: to Alex Williams who composed this slapping bob you're hearing 666 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: at the very end and beginning of the show. And 667 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 1: big big thanks to Gabe Losier, our research associate, big time. 668 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,719 Speaker 1: This was a delight. Uh we'll see you next time, folks. Right, yeah, yeah, 669 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:34,560 Speaker 1: that's one. Okay it. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 670 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,280 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 671 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.