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Speaker 1: I can tell when I walk into a room when

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Speaker 1: someone wants me there or not. Terrible tendency is almost

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Speaker 1: shut down immediately.

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Speaker 2: They Grammy Emmy Antonia Award winning actor and singer you

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Speaker 2: Know from the Color of Purple Area and Wicked.

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Speaker 1: Oscar nominated Incredible Actor Singer, author.

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Speaker 2: And producer Cynthia Arivo. What is the right type of

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Speaker 2: validation to crave?

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Speaker 1: All of it is healthy and all of it is unhealthy,

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Speaker 1: so it's lovely to hear it. But if you don't

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Speaker 1: feel that way about yourself, none of the comments, none

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Speaker 1: of the making someone finally fall in love with you matters.

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Speaker 2: You always felt ready didn't fit in.

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Speaker 1: I had to come to terms with the fact that

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Speaker 1: I don't think I'm ever going to fit in, and

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Speaker 1: why would I want to.

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Speaker 2: We don't want to let people down, we won't be

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Speaker 2: able to be happy. We don't want to break someone's art.

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Speaker 2: But the reality is that is how the way things go.

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Speaker 1: I feel like a villain for doing it, for hurting someone.

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Speaker 1: And this may be a hard thing to say, but

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Speaker 1: sometimes hurting someone actually aids the growth of another person.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever been heartbroken? The Number one health and

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Speaker 2: Wellness podcast.

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Speaker 1: Jay Seddi j Sheeddyjet.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, welcome back to on Purpose, the place you

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Speaker 2: choose to become happier, healthier, and more healed. I'm so

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Speaker 2: grateful today because I get to invite back onto the

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Speaker 2: podcast one of your favorites, one of my dearest friends,

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Speaker 2: someone that I have so much love and respect for,

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Speaker 2: and someone who is truly transforming the world through her

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Speaker 2: energy and her presence. She's a Tony Emmy and Grammy

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Speaker 2: Award winning actress, singer, and songwriter known for her powerhouse

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Speaker 2: performances on stage and screen. She first captivated audiences with

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Speaker 2: her Tony winning portrayal of Selly in The Color Purple

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Speaker 2: on Broadway. Cynthia starred in Harriet, earning Academy Award nominations

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Speaker 2: for both her performance and original song, and Cynthia took

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Speaker 2: on the iconic role of Alpheber in the film Out

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Speaker 2: of of Wicked, earning another Academy Award nomination for her

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Speaker 2: powerful performance. Beyond acting, Cynthia continues to make waves in

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Speaker 2: music with her sophomore album, I Forgive You, set for

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Speaker 2: release this summer. I've had the opportunity to hear it.

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Speaker 2: It is divine, it is transcendent and it is truly powerful.

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Speaker 2: Join us as we discuss Cynthia's insights on creativity, resilience,

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Speaker 2: and using her voice to inspire change. Please welcome to

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Speaker 2: On Purpose. Cynthia Arriva. Hello, Oh my gosh, you just

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Speaker 2: you are magic. You know that, right, And I want

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Speaker 2: to go back. And I was sharing this because it's

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Speaker 2: so important for the audience to know. I interviewed you.

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Speaker 2: I had a audio show in the pandemic called Safe Space,

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Speaker 2: and I got the opportunity to interview over audio. We'd

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Speaker 2: never met before. I don't think i'd even seen you

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Speaker 2: at an event, and I just heard your voice and

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Speaker 2: I was captivated, and i'd seen your work. I knew

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Speaker 2: of you, but I didn't really know you. And I

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Speaker 2: remember coming away from that audio interview, which is very

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Speaker 2: different to a visual interview, and I remember just thinking,

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Speaker 2: you're one of the most unique artists in the world.

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Speaker 2: You're truly one of the most unique humans in the world.

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Speaker 2: And what's beautiful is we've been able to go on

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Speaker 2: to have dinner together and hang out. You've been on

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Speaker 2: the show before. Your episode was just people loved it,

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Speaker 2: Like those clips are still going viral everywhere and I'm

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Speaker 2: just really honored to get to know you beyond this

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Speaker 2: incredible life and world that you've created and say you

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Speaker 2: were as magnificent and more in person. So thank you

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Speaker 2: for coming back on my pleasure. My favorite thing is

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Speaker 2: having guests back on So thanks you nice.

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Speaker 1: I was excited to be able to come back and

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Speaker 1: just spend a little bit more time with you.

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Speaker 2: Know, I love it. I want to start with just

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Speaker 2: you were literally just walking me through your schedule, yes,

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Speaker 2: And I want to start with just how your life

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Speaker 2: has been a whirlwind. First of all, you shot two movies, yes,

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Speaker 2: not one, Yeah, and you were traveling the world. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: we all saw the Press Store, which was absolutely insane

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Speaker 2: and amazing and crazy. You were performing at the Oscars,

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Speaker 2: like you know, it's just unbelievable. And then I was

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Speaker 2: asking you, like, have you even had the moment to

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Speaker 2: take a break.

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Speaker 1: Not really, But I've been trying to make sure that

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Speaker 1: I put some time in to just sort of breathe.

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Speaker 1: I went from the Oscars. The day after the Oscars,

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Speaker 1: I went to South Africa and I was shooting the movie.

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Speaker 1: I haven't completed the movie yet, but I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go back and finish, but I had finished that set

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Speaker 1: of it and then he went to London. But within

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Speaker 1: that time, whilst I was in South Africa, I was

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Speaker 1: lucky enough to have like just a couple of days

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Speaker 1: where I didn't need to be on set, and so

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Speaker 1: I would literally use those days to rest. And I

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Speaker 1: don't mean going to do things and using them for

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Speaker 1: my own like literally staying in bed and resting, because

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Speaker 1: I hadn't done that for a really long time, and

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Speaker 1: I realized that my my body and my brain and

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Speaker 1: my heart really needed it. So I sort of fed

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Speaker 1: myself like that, just stopped for a second what I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to do, because I know it is going to

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Speaker 1: ramp up again and get crazy again, even before the

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Speaker 1: next movie comes out, and with this album and all

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Speaker 1: of the things that are happening this year alone, before

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Speaker 1: the end of the year, I know it's going to

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Speaker 1: get insane. So I think I'm trying to be conscious

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Speaker 1: about how much rest I put in and how I

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Speaker 1: put my schedule. So there are times where I just

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Speaker 1: this day is going to be for ust. Actually we

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Speaker 1: don't need to do that there, so let's move it

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Speaker 1: to this day so that there's a consecutive amount of

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Speaker 1: time to sleep, time to just be because I think

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Speaker 1: it's important and I think it makes me a healthier person.

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Speaker 2: What do you do to keep yourself so healthy and

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Speaker 2: fit and alert? Because your work so demanding, not just

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Speaker 2: the travel, but we saw your performance, we saw the

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Speaker 2: behind the scenes, we saw the audition tape. It's so physically,

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Speaker 2: mentally and emotionally challenging. Yeah, now what are you doing

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Speaker 2: on top of everything you just said that to really stay?

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Speaker 1: I'm really picky about how I feed myself. So it's

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Speaker 1: I take my vitamins every day. And that sounds very,

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Speaker 1: very pedantic, and it sounds like almost like a kid,

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Speaker 1: But I do take vitamins every single day. I make

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Speaker 1: sure I'm eating in the right way when I fly,

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Speaker 1: and this is not Please all airlines do not blame

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Speaker 1: me if people stop eating food.

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Speaker 2: Please.

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Speaker 1: I want you to eat if you need to, But

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Speaker 1: I don't eat on planes. I bring my food with

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Speaker 1: me because I really need to know what I'm putting

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Speaker 1: in my body. And usually when I land, I go

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Speaker 1: straight to something. I don't usually get the chance to

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Speaker 1: sort of stop and reset. I have to go from

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Speaker 1: one thing to another almost immediately. I drink tea. I

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Speaker 1: do not drink alcohol ever, and that's just because that's

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Speaker 1: how my body works. I'm a vegan. I don't really

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Speaker 1: eat meat because I can't process it. I've learnt that

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Speaker 1: over the years, and so it has taken time to

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Speaker 1: get to this place to where I know what is

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Speaker 1: right for me, and I have good people around me

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Speaker 1: who will listen to me when I say, actually, I

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Speaker 1: think it's a good time to not do this today.

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Speaker 1: It's about really being practical about how you take care

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Speaker 1: of yourself and what you put in your body and

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Speaker 1: when you get rest. And I'm not always the best

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Speaker 1: when it comes to rest. I have to focus when

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Speaker 1: it comes to that. I actually have to concentrate on

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Speaker 1: making sure I put rest in.

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Speaker 2: But I try. Yeah, that's what I was going to

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Speaker 2: ask you. Are you good at slowing down?

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Speaker 1: No, I'm terrible. I'm really bad at slowing down. But

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Speaker 1: I'm good when I am slow, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes people get really antsy about not going

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Speaker 1: somewhere when they are still. I'm good at being still

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Speaker 1: when I need to be still, you know. So once

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Speaker 1: I get the chance to be still, I'm not going anywhere. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But that's also taken time. You know, I haven't always

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Speaker 1: been good at being in one place and okay with

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Speaker 1: not going anywhere, But now I'm really good at it

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Speaker 1: because I know how valuable it is for me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what got you there? Because you're so right? I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of us everyone will say it takes

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Speaker 2: me three days to even and switch off. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: by the time you switch off, you're like, your vacation's

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Speaker 2: over and now you're going back to work. What was

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Speaker 2: it that helped you get to that space of how

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Speaker 2: you just so beautifully said you know what, I actually

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Speaker 2: now after some work, actually feel like I can be

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Speaker 2: still and I can be present. Was that that got

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Speaker 2: you there?

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Speaker 1: I felt like I was missing things. I think even

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Speaker 1: in this last sort of year or two, I had

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Speaker 1: to figure out how to be really really present in

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Speaker 1: what was going on and what's happening. And also, whilst

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Speaker 1: we was shooting, I was wearing this album, so it

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Speaker 1: meant that lots of thought was happening, lots of looking

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Speaker 1: back on things and remembering. And you can't really do

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Speaker 1: that if you aren't still. Sometimes when you're sat in

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Speaker 1: a studio and you have to write, you can't go anywhere,

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Speaker 1: and so learning that practice and doing that has really

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Speaker 1: sort of shone a light on the ways in which

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Speaker 1: I wasn't good at being still at times, and how

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Speaker 1: I was missing certain things, not really being present in

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Speaker 1: the moment and enjoying what's going on enough. Doing all

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Speaker 1: of those carpets and things made me forced me to

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Speaker 1: sort of be present and be with whoever I was

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Speaker 1: talking to it at that moment. So I think what

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do is lean into what that felt

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Speaker 1: like for elongated periods of time, And for me right now,

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Speaker 1: an elongated period of time could be anything from like

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Speaker 1: one day to three days. Like that's an elongated perial

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Speaker 1: of time for me. But it means that when I

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Speaker 1: do get those opportunities, I can actually be there and

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Speaker 1: be okay with doing nothing, because sometimes doing nothing is

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Speaker 1: doing enough.

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Speaker 2: What you're saying so true that I feel like, if

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Speaker 2: you are where your feet are, yeah, then you'll always

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Speaker 2: be where your feet are. So if you're on the

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Speaker 2: red carpet and that's where you are there, then when

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Speaker 2: you're off, that's where you are. And I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of us and I've struggled with this in the

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Speaker 2: past and got so much better with it. But when

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Speaker 2: we're at work, we're thinking about the vacation, right, and

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Speaker 2: therefore when we're on the vacation with thinking about work,

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Speaker 2: because that inattention bleeds and you can't say I want

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Speaker 2: to be attentive on vacation and I want to be

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Speaker 2: inattentive at work, because they both feed into each other.

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Speaker 2: And I love hearing about the athlete in you though,

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Speaker 2: like even when you were talking about food and water,

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Speaker 2: and you are an athlete and so all of us

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Speaker 2: that demand a lot from our body. And I had

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Speaker 2: this really interesting thing that happened to me this week

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Speaker 2: where I did not go to South Africa or London,

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Speaker 2: but I did my mini version of what you do.

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Speaker 2: But this week I went to I was in Palm Springs, Vegas, Boston,

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Speaker 2: and New York four days for work events. I was

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Speaker 2: only in a city for hours. Yeah, and that's normal

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Speaker 2: for me too, And so I was moving and I

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Speaker 2: got back at like one am, or I got into

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Speaker 2: bed at one am on Monday morning, and I got

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Speaker 2: up at eight to work. Well, I got up a

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Speaker 2: bit earlier and then at eight I was working out

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Speaker 2: and it was this really amazing feeling I had. I

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Speaker 2: got in the gym, and I felt amazing after doing it,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, oh wow, like all of this

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Speaker 2: stuff works. Like the victimins, they were really like it

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Speaker 2: all like people do it for a reason.

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Speaker 1: Pattern as well. So once you get your body into

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Speaker 1: it's almost like ritual. Your body needs a particular kind

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Speaker 1: of ritual to keep it going. Doesn't matter where you

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Speaker 1: are in the world or what you do in the like,

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Speaker 1: as long as there are certain things that don't change,

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Speaker 1: your body will thank you for it. You know, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter where I am in the world. I will

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Speaker 1: always have my betterments, like I have like packets, I

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Speaker 1: take a round with me right, and I always have

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Speaker 1: my tea, so bring tea with me wherever I go.

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Speaker 1: It's the same tea, so I'm never sort of thinking,

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Speaker 1: oh I have to have this or that's the tea

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Speaker 1: that I have. I like ruffles chips, so I'll always

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Speaker 1: take ruffles chips with me wherever I go. That's my

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Speaker 1: sort of like guilty pleasure. I'm going to have that.

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Speaker 1: But it means that, oh, there's a particular protein bar,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not searching for something else that doesn't aid

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Speaker 1: me actually helps me. I will always know where the

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Speaker 1: gym is, so I can actually go and do my

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Speaker 1: long walk or my long run that way. There are

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Speaker 1: things that are already set in place that don't take

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Speaker 1: up much room, but they do serve a really great purpose.

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Speaker 1: It means that I can show up and be ready

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Speaker 1: wherever I am, and when I get back home, I

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Speaker 1: can always slot back in. And like, honestly, the jet

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Speaker 1: lag should be crazy, but it is not. I work

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Speaker 1: up this morning at like seven. I have like a

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Speaker 1: little one person infrared sauna, but I also take I

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Speaker 1: bought an inference on a blanket, which I take with

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Speaker 1: me wherever I go, because it means that I can

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Speaker 1: also heal from the inside out. And the wonderful thing

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Speaker 1: about that is that you can get if I can't run,

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Speaker 1: then I'll get in this storm, or I'll do both.

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Speaker 1: But those things don't change. And so if you can

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Speaker 1: keep healthy habits that keep you moving and working and

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Speaker 1: your system is still alive and alert, then those things

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Speaker 1: should stay. I think sometimes we underestimate what it is

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Speaker 1: to form good habits. Those things really help and they've

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Speaker 1: really helped me a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they take a long time to form. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 2: once you have them, then you like realize the value

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Speaker 2: of that. And then you're like, I don't even want

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Speaker 2: to miss them, that's right, even if I don't love

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Speaker 2: doing them more, even if they're hard. Yeah, You're like,

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Speaker 2: I know I'll feel better after it. Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 2: I heard someone you said that you've always been an overachiever. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I was trying to understand, like, what's the difference

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Speaker 2: between achieving and overachieving?

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Speaker 1: So I can, okay, make a song good, do an

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Speaker 1: album good? The standard album is usually maybe ten to

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Speaker 1: thirteen songs. My album has twenty songs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.

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Speaker 1: You can spend six months doing something, I'll probably spend

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Speaker 1: a year doing it. Someone says, write a book, and

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Speaker 1: you get someone to help you write the book, I'll go, Actually,

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Speaker 1: I would really like to write this myself. And this

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Speaker 1: is not necessarily the healthiest I preface it with that.

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Speaker 1: For me, I think I'm always constantly pushing to do

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Speaker 1: what's the one thing further from the norm, Like, you've

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Speaker 1: done something really amazing, But how can I be more

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Speaker 1: than amazing? How can I push more? How can I

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Speaker 1: do more? How much can I exert myself more to

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Speaker 1: get more out of the thing that I'm doing that

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Speaker 1: for me is overachieving and that isn't always a healthy

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Speaker 1: way to think. But for me, I think it's become

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Speaker 1: a habit and so I've had to find healthy ways

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Speaker 1: of doing that. So like, if I am going to

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Speaker 1: do twenty songs, how am I going to make it

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Speaker 1: easy for myself after that to let go of it

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Speaker 1: for a second and take a break. Or if I

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Speaker 1: am going to run three for three hours? Am I

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Speaker 1: going to feed myself to replenish myself the way I

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Speaker 1: need to after running those three hours? It's the balance

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Speaker 1: has to be addressed when you're doing something like that.

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Speaker 2: No, that makes a lot of sense. Where does that

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Speaker 2: drive come from? Where's that ambition come from? Have you

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Speaker 2: always had it since day one?

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Speaker 1: I think I have always had it. I think it's

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Speaker 1: first came from my mom, because I think she has

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Speaker 1: that sort of drive and want to achieve. I'm raised

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Speaker 1: by a single mom and she really I'm not entirely

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Speaker 1: sure how she managed to do all the things she

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Speaker 1: was able to do. This is you know, a woman

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Speaker 1: who emigrated from Nigeria, which is in her twenties, got

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Speaker 1: her degree in nursing, went from nursing to being a

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Speaker 1: health visitor, which is a big massive jump. Owns her

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Speaker 1: own home, had her own car. But we're not middle

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Speaker 1: class by any means, working class people who didn't have

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Speaker 1: very much. But my mum was always pushing to make

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Speaker 1: sure that she could have and that we could have.

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Speaker 2: So I think.

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Speaker 1: I watched and witnessed her do that on her own,

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Speaker 1: and so picked that those habits, those traits up and

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Speaker 1: then I think in my teenagehood, after experiencing some traumatic things,

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Speaker 1: that sort of also became a driving force too, which

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Speaker 1: is not necessarily the best thing because it can't sustain,

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Speaker 1: but it's sort of like I'll show everybody that I

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Speaker 1: can do this, and that sort of drove a lot

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Speaker 1: of it, and then it didn't sustain. Then I was like, actually,

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Speaker 1: I really want to do this for myself, and I

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Speaker 1: love what I'm doing, and if I'm going to do something,

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Speaker 1: I want to do it to the very best of

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Speaker 1: my abilities. It stopped being about what I saw my

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Speaker 1: mom do, which was wonderful, and stopped being about proving

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Speaker 1: to people and is now about like sort of like

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Speaker 1: eking out the maximum amount of joy from something by

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Speaker 1: doing the most I can do with it, you know,

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Speaker 1: by learning all of the details that I can about

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Speaker 1: whatever it is I'm doing. How do I connect the most?

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Speaker 1: And in connecting the most, it makes me be the

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Speaker 1: best I can be, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. I want to talk

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Speaker 2: about all those transitions because they're so beautiful. And I

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Speaker 2: literally was having this conversation with a friend the other

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Speaker 2: day about my mom.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And so my dad was less present. It's not that

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Speaker 2: he wasn't there, but he was less present when I

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Speaker 2: was growing up. Ye. And so my mom was the

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Speaker 2: breadwrenner of the house.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: She made us breakfast in the morning, dropped us to school,

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Speaker 2: me and my sister, made us a packed lunch, went

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Speaker 2: to work, picked us up from school, came home, made

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Speaker 2: us dinner, went out again to work, and came home.

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Speaker 2: And I still have no idea. I have no idea

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Speaker 2: how she did it. And we always had a fresh

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Speaker 2: dinner every day, a fresh lunch every day, of fresh breakfast,

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Speaker 2: never had to eat leftover. She always believed that her

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Speaker 2: home cooked meal was so important. And I look at

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Speaker 2: my mom now and I just think, like, how did

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Speaker 2: you do it? And I completely agree with you. My

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Speaker 2: work ethic, I think comes from watching my mom, So

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Speaker 2: I can relate to that where it's like I saw

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Speaker 2: my mom after doing all of that, working in the evening, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because she had to, And I saw her like turning

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Speaker 2: up when it was really really hard. And it's amazing

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Speaker 2: how that rubs off on you, yeah, and how you

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Speaker 2: mirror what you see at home. And again, like you said,

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Speaker 2: it's not that it was the healthiest. She had to

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Speaker 2: do it for survival.

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Speaker 1: It was a choice choice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so we are lucky that we have the

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Speaker 2: ability to slow down or have more resources or whatever

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Speaker 2: it may be. But it is amazing how much our

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Speaker 2: parents work ethic like.

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Speaker 1: It becomes part of the DNA without even realizing that

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Speaker 1: it's part of your DNA anymore.

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Speaker 2: You know, what were some of those if you're comfortable showing,

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Speaker 2: what were some of those teenage traumas that you went.

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Speaker 1: Oh, oh, no, I've spoken about it, honestly. When I

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Speaker 1: was sixteen, my dad and I went through a royal separation.

377
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Speaker 1: He no longer wanted to be a part of my life,

378
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Speaker 1: and that was like a big turning point for me

379
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Speaker 1: because I had to figure out what that meant. And

380
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Speaker 1: for a long time, that sort of fueled the way

381
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Speaker 1: I would work, because you end up working to prove

382
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Speaker 1: to someone that you're worthy of being loved or worthy

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Speaker 1: of being looked after or wanted. And that's that was

384
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Speaker 1: like a big moment for me in general, and I

385
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Speaker 1: think that it's sort of like a formative years. I

386
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Speaker 1: think I was sixteen when it happened, so it really

387
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Speaker 1: was a turning point and a seminal moment in my

388
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Speaker 1: growth that it happened in and it took time to

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Speaker 1: get over the hill or over the hump of that

390
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Speaker 1: and forgive and let go and be able to do

391
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Speaker 1: things not for that purpose, but for me. I had

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Speaker 1: to sort of really do some thinking and working to

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Speaker 1: shift that habit. But I'm very glad idea because it

394
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 1: was doesn't sustain you. It can only last for so long,

395
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Speaker 1: and it means that the work you're doing not on purpose,

396
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,480
Speaker 1: but it comes from the wrong place and for a

397
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Speaker 1: while it worked, but then it didn't. And when when

398
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 1: it doesn't, you have to figure out how to make

399
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,400
Speaker 1: it work from something else. And it feels a lot

400
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Speaker 1: better to not be working from that place anymore.

401
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Speaker 2: There's a really beautiful system in Eastern philosophy that talks

402
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,800
Speaker 2: about how you can do anything from three different modes.

403
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,200
Speaker 2: So you have the mode of ignorance, which means you're

404
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 2: doing things out of fear and insecurity, so you're doing

405
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 2: something because you're scared. You're doing something because it's not survival.

406
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Speaker 2: It's even like more negatively motivated than YEA. Then the

407
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 2: second is the mode of passion, which is what you're saying,

408
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,920
Speaker 2: which is like, I'm going to prove someone wrong. I'm

409
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 2: going to do it for a result. I want to

410
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Speaker 2: do it because I want to show people. I want

411
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Speaker 2: to do it with that energy. And then finally you

412
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Speaker 2: come to love or duty or joy or bliss, and

413
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 2: it's a ladder. And what I love about what you're

414
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Speaker 2: saying is you've taken the ladder because I think sometimes

415
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,919
Speaker 2: we make ourselves feel bad, like or if I'm doing

416
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Speaker 2: something to prove someone wrong, I shouldn't do it. That's

417
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 2: a bad motive. And it's but it's like sometimes that's.

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Speaker 1: The only thing that can If that's the only motive,

419
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Speaker 1: you know, what else are you supposed to do?

420
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Speaker 2: You have to use it.

421
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Speaker 1: You have to use it, and if you use it

422
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Speaker 1: to make good work, then you use it to make

423
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Speaker 1: good work. And I think what we want to make

424
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Speaker 1: sure of when we're doing that is that at some

425
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Speaker 1: point we're okay to allow that to be what it

426
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,520
Speaker 1: was and to move on from it, you know, because

427
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Speaker 1: if and everyone has their own time, I had it

428
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Speaker 1: my time, and some else will be still working from

429
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 1: that mode, and if it's still working for them, it's

430
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 1: still working for them, but at some point they will

431
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 1: come to a realization that I don't know if this

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Speaker 1: works for me anymore, and it doesn't feel as good anymore.

433
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Speaker 1: So when you and it's about noticing what it doesn't

434
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: feel the way you want it to feel anymore. And

435
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 1: so what am I now searching for? Am I searching

436
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 1: for joy? Am I searching for bliss? Am I searching

437
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 1: for contentment? And if that's the case, then it has

438
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 1: to come from somewhere else, and so you seek to

439
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:27,880
Speaker 1: work in a different way.

440
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 2: Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from

441
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 2: our sponsors. Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now

442
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 2: back to the discussion. When you talk about these things,

443
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,120
Speaker 2: it feels like you've held your hand through it, Yeah,

444
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 2: which is like a really beautiful visual to have, because

445
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 2: I think what we're good is doing it as humans

446
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 2: is as soon as something doesn't serve us, we're like, oh,

447
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 2: I've been getting it wrong for three years. Now I'm

448
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 2: going to get it right. And it's like, well, no, yeah,

449
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 2: that served you. Yeah, Like, even if it wasn't sustainable,

450
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 2: as you rightly said, it served you and it was

451
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 2: important and it mattered. So I think if what I'm

452
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 2: saying is if someone's listening right now and they're like, Cynthia,

453
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 2: you know what. I've spent the last three years trying

454
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,360
Speaker 2: to prove my parents wrong. I've spent the last five

455
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: years trying to prove my ex wrong. I've spent the

456
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 2: last seven years trying to prove my teachers wrong at

457
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 2: school or whatever it may be. But I know it's

458
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 2: not sustainable. Like I hear you in that place, how

459
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 2: would you encourage people to hold their hand through that

460
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 2: transition into rising? But not?

461
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 1: Sometimes I get the question what would you give your advice?

462
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: Would you give your younger self? Or what would you

463
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 1: say to your younger self if you could meet her?

464
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 1: Or is there anything There's three different questions. But then

465
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 1: the other question is would you change anything if you

466
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: could go back? My answer is always I would never

467
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: change anything because I think that every step we take,

468
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: even the things that we think are wrong, terms are

469
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 1: the teachers. They're the way we get to where we

470
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 1: get to. You know what I mean? If I was

471
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: to change something, I don't know that I would be

472
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: sad here in front of you. I think some of

473
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 1: what we might think of missteps were the steps I

474
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 1: was supposed to take. So if you're at home and

475
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 1: you're watching this and you're thinking, oh, I've been doing

476
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: this and I know it's not sustainable, but I but

477
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,120
Speaker 1: how do I move from that? When you take your time,

478
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: it will come. And if that's what's feeding you right now,

479
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: if that's the way, if that's the thing that gets

480
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: you up out of bed and gets you energized to

481
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: move forward, then keep using it. And when you realize, oh,

482
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 1: actually maybe today I'll do it from a place of

483
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 1: I want to cheer someone up. That is as much

484
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: of that's love as well. So it's just taking small decision,

485
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: changing your mind bit by bit. And don't be so

486
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: hard on yourself because you've chosen other things to encourage

487
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: yourself to move forward and to do well. If you

488
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: haven't hurt anyone by using the pain that you've been

489
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: through by using the hurt that you've been through, by

490
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: using the rejection that you've exped eperience, by using the

491
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: shame that you've experienced, and you've managed to transmute all

492
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: of that into energy that makes you create positive work

493
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: or think you've done something really good because technically you've

494
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: given all of those people all those things energy in

495
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: the most positive way. Now you get to find a

496
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: way to give yourself positive energy. So I would say

497
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: pack yourself on the back for managing to do that,

498
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: because it takes a lot of time and energy to

499
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: do that and be easy. That change in the way

500
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: you move forward will come because you want it to come.

501
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 1: The fact that you even are thinking about trying to

502
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: work in a different way means that you're putting the

503
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: idea that you can work in a different way into

504
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: the universe and telling yourself, we can work in a

505
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: different way, and one day you're work in a different way.

506
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 1: Right now, what you're doing isn't hurting anyone. It costs

507
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: you more than it costs anyone else. But you're also

508
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: serving yourself the way you know how to, and then

509
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: you'll find another way to serve yourself and other people.

510
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 2: It's actually such a beautiful journey to take you when

511
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 2: you kind of you know, and when you're going through

512
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 2: it always feels like the worst because when you're trying

513
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 2: to prove someone wrong, you feel controlled by them, you

514
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 2: feel they still own your journey and you and the

515
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 2: moment you let go, you recognize, oh, no, I'm taking

516
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 2: back my control and that I have ownership. And I

517
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 2: think that's what we're all looking for in life when

518
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 2: you think about as humans. I was having a conversation

519
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 2: this morning with one of my friends, is an incredible like,

520
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 2: you know, one of the greatest therapists on the planet,

521
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 2: and we're just just having a friendly conversation. But we

522
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 2: were saying, I don't think humans even know what they

523
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 2: want anymore. Like we think we want happiness, but do

524
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 2: we really like what we're looking for? Do we want

525
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 2: validation or do we want approval or do we want life? Like?

526
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: What do we want? And I think, as we're talking

527
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: about right now, I'm thinking about it, what we've really

528
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: want is to feel agency, in autonomy, control over our

529
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 2: lives and not feel like we're living for someone else,

530
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 2: and not feel like we're trying to because even if

531
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 2: you're trying to prove someone wrong. You're still living for them, right,

532
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 2: That's right, And I think we want to feel like, no,

533
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 2: I'm living for me.

534
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love the idea that we're sort of trying

535
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: to figure out what we want or we want happiness?

536
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: Do we want to But actually the idea that we're

537
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: simply seeking agency over our lives allows us to own

538
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: all of those things. So, yes, we do want happiness,

539
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 1: but maybe it's contentment. But also we want to have

540
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: agency over the sadness that we have, so it's not

541
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 1: because of someone else, but we can allow ourselves to

542
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: feel something, and then we can decide when we actually

543
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: want to damp down that feeling let it go. We

544
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: can let that sort of dissipate for ourselves because we

545
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: have the agency over it. We have the agency of

546
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: what we choose to feel happy over. Or if we

547
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: are feeling grief, then it's our grief, not someone else's grief.

548
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: You know that, I mean takes time to realize, but

549
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: it's that that I think is the ultimate goal for

550
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: most of us, to be able to decide no, actually,

551
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: this is my life and I'm choosing to feel and

552
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: live this way for me first, and then I can

553
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: use the energy that I am saving by having agency

554
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: of my life for good that will sell other people

555
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: as well. That's I think. Once we can be in

556
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: true ownership of who we are and what we do

557
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: for ourselves, there's more space for everyone else.

558
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: Do you think that journey was harder for you because

559
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 2: you've talked about how like you always felt like you

560
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 2: didn't fit in. Oh?

561
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I had to come to terms with

562
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: the fact that I don't think I'm ever going to

563
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: fit in and why would I want to. But I

564
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: think it was when you're young, it doesn't feel as

565
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: good because you really do want to fit You do

566
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: want to be a part of something. But I think

567
00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: that as I've grown and as I've learned, my difference

568
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: and the not feeling like I fit in has actually

569
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: really helped me become who I want to be. And

570
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: I think if I was the same as everybody else,

571
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: you wouldn't know me, you know. And I think my

572
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: not fitting has forced me to get to know myself

573
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: deeply and learn about who I am and what makes

574
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: me tick, and to be honest about the things that

575
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: sort of like trigger me or don't trigger me, or

576
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: the things that make me tick and the things that

577
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: bring me joy and the things that like energize me.

578
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: I was talking to someone yesterday and I said to them,

579
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: I can sometimes tell when I walk into a room

580
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: when someone wants me there or not. And my tendency,

581
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: a terrible tendency, is almost shut down immediately because I

582
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: want to be in a room where someone wants me

583
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: to be in the room with them. I want to

584
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: be able to share that. And why don't we maybe

585
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: shift that and change that And maybe you walk in

586
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: with the energy of openness and see if you can

587
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: shift the energy. Maybe don't expect the energy when you

588
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: walk in. Maybe maybe try and change that energy when

589
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: you get there. And I hadn't thought of that before,

590
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: and I thought that's something that I, maybe ten years

591
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: ago wouldn't have been open to hearing. Because the automatical

592
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: is what if they don't want me Here's why don't

593
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: they want me here? What's wrong if I done something wrong?

594
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: As opposed to maybe they've just had a bad day,

595
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: maybe they woke up on the wrong side of the

596
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: bed and they just don't have the energy right now.

597
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: So maybe you feed the energy into the room and

598
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: maybe that might shift things and I think because I've

599
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: started to learn and have been in possession of the

600
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: knowledge that my difference isn't something that separates but can connect.

601
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: Maybe it means that using that difference in places allows

602
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: the space to open up a little bit more.

603
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: You know, I love that. That's such a cool idea. Yeah,

604
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: and I couldn't agree with it more. It's so important.

605
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: I think we do live in a world right now

606
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 2: that's always like, well, they don't want me there or

607
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: they don't like me, and we're was just giving away

608
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: our agency because what you just said that statement is

609
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 2: claiming back our agency. Well, yeah, they may not want

610
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 2: me there, but I want to be there, and I'm

611
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 2: going to walk in as if I belong.

612
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't walk in thinking I don't want them there.

613
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: So maybe if if I let them know what I want,

614
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: you here I wanted so, well, maybe we can share

615
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: that space. You know, there's ways to shift the conversation,

616
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: shift the energy wherever you are. And and I think,

617
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: as as human beings, sometimes we put it on the

618
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: other person to do that when actually, if you're confident

619
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: enough about what you bring, you can actually shift and

620
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: share yourself.

621
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 2: I've seen that so many times it's just well, and

622
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 2: I see it when I'm on the road. I see

623
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 2: it through. I was speaking at an event on Sunday

624
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 2: and they had like, what is it like when you're

625
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: on set and there's food for everyone?

626
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: Now it was like a sharing table like around it.

627
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said that kind of thing. It was

628
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: like all there is for their helpers, the volunteers to speak,

629
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 2: it's like everyone to just take food. And there was

630
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 2: this lady then I mentioned to that I was plant based,

631
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 2: and I was like, could you just walk me through

632
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: the options? She did it with so much enthusiasm, like

633
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 2: I asked her just a really basic question. I was nice,

634
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 2: but I wasn't that. I was just like, hey, how

635
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 2: are you. I was like, hey, how's it going? Like

636
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 2: I'm plant based? Could you help me out? And I

637
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: was fine, like my energy was okay. Maybe my manager

638
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: was a fie. I was neutral. It wasn't positive.

639
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: Easy, it is easy.

640
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 2: And she just responded. She was like a mom like

641
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: I feel like she had that motherly energy of like

642
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 2: what do you want? Like this is plant based? Can

643
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 2: I get you a drink? And I and I said

644
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: to it. I was with a colleague and I just said.

645
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 2: I was like, that is like the energy of just life,

646
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: and it's not her job was not easy. She wasn't

647
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: doing something that was physically easy. She wasn't doing something

648
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: where it's probably a thankless task, like but she was

649
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 2: so passionate about it. I was, and I said to her,

650
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 2: I was like, I hope you just know, like you

651
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: made my day, and it was it's always people like

652
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 2: that that you just kind of bump into. And I

653
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 2: was like, we've got to become better as human and

654
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: at noticing it, yes, and telling them that because we

655
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: would notice it if they weren't like that. Yes. So

656
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: if she had responded to me and be like, oh, yes,

657
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 2: over there.

658
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, you would be right.

659
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't. But I know a few years ago.

660
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: It's the thing that you would like, would you take

661
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: it with you?

662
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 2: You know, you take it with you? God? Why are

663
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: they so like what's wrong with right? And we all

664
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: carry that, But when someone does something amazing, you kind

665
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 2: of take it for granted and you go, oh, yeah,

666
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 2: of course they're just being nice.

667
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: The thing is, I think we'd sometimes say for granted

668
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: that that kind of energy is infectious. It is truly, Yeah,

669
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's the simple sort of act of smiling

670
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: at someone on the street, right, that smile will pass on,

671
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: It'll go from one person to another person to another person.

672
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: You don't know who you're smiling it. And if that person,

673
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: if you're smiling at someone who's that a bit of

674
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: a rough day and they go, oh, someone's noticed me

675
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: and they smiled at me, well you'll remember that person

676
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: smiled at me, and then you might smile and that

677
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: smile might pass into someone else, and you don't know

678
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: who you're smiling at, how far that smile goes. And

679
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: what we are not very good at is telling other

680
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: people hate. This person smiled at me in the street

681
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: and it was really sweet and I don't know who

682
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: they were, but it was really lovely. Because that energy

683
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: is also infectious. Yeah, what we normally do is that

684
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: she like she bumps into me and I don't know why,

685
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: but like she or he said that, and it wasn't

686
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: really nice that we passed that energy on instead of

687
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: the energy that brightens. We are better at sort of

688
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: sharing the energy that doesn't and as humans who have

689
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: to share a planet, we should probably get better at

690
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,239
Speaker 1: sharing what's right, because yes, we we're not always going

691
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: to go through great times, but it's the little things

692
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: that can move us from a place of darkness to

693
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: a place of light.

694
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that you. Have you heard of something

695
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: called the frequency illusion. So the frequency illusion is this idea.

696
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: It's the idea of like if I'm thinking about buying

697
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: a red car everywhere, yeah, or like if I learned

698
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: a new were yeah, and now I hear everyone saying

699
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: that word or whatever it may be. And so the

700
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: frequency illusion is when you start to notice something, you

701
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: start to notice it more. And we think that the

702
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 2: world suddenly has more red cars or the world suddenly

703
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: is more intellectual because they're using this word. The truth

704
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,919
Speaker 2: is the world hasn't changed. You just notice it more

705
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: and the brain is wired to do that. And what

706
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: you just pointed out is that that it's not about

707
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 2: This isn't positive thinking, and this is not like toxic positivity.

708
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 2: What it is is whatever I notice, I'm going to

709
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: notice more of it. So if I only notice when

710
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 2: people frown and people kind of you know, push me aside,

711
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: or people don't open the door, I'm going to notice

712
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 2: that more and more and more. But if I notice

713
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: the smile on the street, if I notice the nice

714
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: gesture from the lunch lady. If I noticed that, then

715
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, that's how I start to see things.

716
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 2: And it's not faking it. It's not like pretending that

717
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 2: the world's all roses and rainbows and all that kind

718
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 2: of stuff. But it's the idea that our brain is

719
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,919
Speaker 2: just wired to notice. And whatever you notice, you'll see

720
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 2: more of. About your new album, there's no mask, there's

721
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 2: no veil. It's this true, transparent, you know communication. The

722
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: first time I listened to it, because I was lucky

723
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: enough to get an early one for this, I had

724
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 2: my eyes closed the whole time and I just sat

725
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 2: and I listened to it in order as it was.

726
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 2: I didn't skip, Yeah, I didn't need to. And it

727
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 2: really was just this. It really felt like a divine experience,

728
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 2: like it was very I like music, and I love music,

729
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 2: but it was very different, and it was different because

730
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 2: it felt familiar to my soul. And that's why when

731
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 2: I was messaging about it last night before you were coming,

732
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 2: I was like, it was divine, it was transcendent because

733
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 2: it was. It just it felt otherworldly in the experience,

734
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 2: but then felt really familiar and human. Yeah, and I've

735
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 2: got so many questions about it, but I want to

736
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: let you felt. I felt like there was something you

737
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 2: were going to want to let you. Yeah.

738
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: I think I knew when I was going into it

739
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: that I wanted to make something that felt like connective

740
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: tissue to who I was. And part of me was

741
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,879
Speaker 1: deeply petrified to write this album just because I knew

742
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: it was going to be so transparent and really human

743
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: in the subjects and just extremely truthful. But I didn't

744
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: really know how else to write it, so I just

745
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: sort of had to let go and just write. And

746
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: I think the other worldliness maybe in the composition of things,

747
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: but even that was a really human experience. It wasn't.

748
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: I didn't make any vocal arrangements. There were no written

749
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: there's no written music. I would do it as I

750
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,240
Speaker 1: was going along, and I would know what I wanted,

751
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 1: and then I would sort of start with a vocal pad,

752
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: and I would start with a line, and that line

753
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: would repeat the line, and we'd create a stack, and

754
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: then over that stack, I would just create another line,

755
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: and there was no leaving the booth to write what

756
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 1: the next line was. As a line happened, I would

757
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: think of another line, and sometimes I would distract myself

758
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: because the line was creating itself as I was singing

759
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: the line before, and that would go on and go

760
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: on and go on until there was nothing left. So

761
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: for me, it really was an experience of pouring all

762
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,240
Speaker 1: of myself into it every single time. And I would

763
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 1: say to my producer and Will, who's also the engineer

764
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: on it and was co writing with me, it was

765
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: always it always felt really emotional when I would do

766
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: the vocal pads. I always felt deeply connected to the

767
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:37,439
Speaker 1: music because it was the rarest form of vocalizing and

768
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: making music that I could think of without any real

769
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: structure necessarily. I just knew the emotion that I wanted,

770
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: and that's what I would then write over a lot

771
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,879
Speaker 1: of these songs just started with a vocal pad and

772
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 1: a melody, that's what would happen. Yeah.

773
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 2: Wow, has that always been your process or was that

774
00:37:59,400 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: a new discuss?

775
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 1: I think I've always wanted it to be my process,

776
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: but I don't think until now I've been brave enough

777
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: to do it that way. I've never done it like

778
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: this before, and it felt so easy to do. It

779
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: felt like a real natural way of exercising the music

780
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: that I had in myself.

781
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: Here, And what did you want people to feel throughout it?

782
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: What was you were telling me earlier about how every song,

783
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 2: even the order and the art were structured. Yeah, what

784
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: was the kind of the emotional journey you wanted people

785
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 2: to go on?

786
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: At the beginning, it really is about heartbreak and love

787
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: and loss, but it's also in a way about me

788
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: breaking someone's heart, or what we put on ourselves as

789
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: people in relationship, the responsibility we put on ourselves sometimes

790
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: when we're in relationship when doesn't feel right, when it's

791
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: not right, and we find it hard to disconnect from

792
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,959
Speaker 1: those relationships, and we find it hard to speak about

793
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: what we're actually feeling when we're in them. And I

794
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: think I wanted people to be okay with admitting when

795
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: they're in the wrong space, when it isn't right anymore,

796
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: when you have to go, And also that base feeling

797
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: of it's your fault as well, you know, because sometimes

798
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: we feel a lot of guilt for saying that, but

799
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: because our relationships are made of two three However, many

800
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: people are in your relationship, but it's never it's not

801
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: on one sided. Relationships are made of the people that

802
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: are in them, and what happens within those relationships are

803
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: made of the people within them, even when you don't

804
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: think they are. If you dig deep enough, you'll find

805
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: that you both have responsibility in there. And so I

806
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: think there was sort of like the assuming of responsibility

807
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,919
Speaker 1: and also the willingness to be like, also, your responsibility

808
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: is this too. This is how I felt, but also

809
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: I understand that I made you feel that way. And

810
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: then I wanted people to know that that it's in

811
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: that next section there's the discovery of something new, something passionate,

812
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: within yourself and with another person, and how human that is,

813
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 1: because sometimes we get very ashamed of talking about passion

814
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: and desire, and I wanted to talk about that, and

815
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: I think passion and desire aren't necessarily things that people

816
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 1: associate me with, but they are also very human experiences

817
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: which I have experienced as someone who's, you know, in

818
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: her late thirties. You know, I think it's important for

819
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: people to know that that is a part of me.

820
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: And that third section is about when your feet touched

821
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: the ground. After all, the desire and the passion and

822
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: the headiness of what that can be, that when your

823
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: feet touched the ground, you fall in love for real

824
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: that it isn't just about the other person, but it

825
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 1: really is with you as well, to fall in love

826
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: again with who you are. That sometimes within our relationships

827
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: we can lose ourselves a bit, but then eventually, if

828
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: you want, you can come back to yourself. And that

829
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: force section is about forgiveness, which is what this album

830
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: is called. It is about forgiving the person that you

831
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 1: were with, the person that you were, and the person

832
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: you may have become because of it, forgiving the mistakes

833
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: that you might have made because they lead to this place.

834
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: And I guess in the grand scheme of things, it

835
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: is really about forgiving yourself and allowing the fact that

836
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: your human experiences are just that, the experiences we have

837
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: as human beings that usher us through our lives. The

838
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: things that I've been through have made me really sort

839
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: of like look back on how I've dealt with certain situations,

840
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: and sometimes I've not necessarily been my best self, But

841
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that I'm not a good human being.

842
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes we mistake not being our best

843
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 1: selves with being a bad human being, and I think

844
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 1: sometimes we have to say that that's not the same thing,

845
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 1: and that we can forgive ourselves for not being our

846
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: best selves because we want to be good human beings.

847
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 2: Even just listening to you explain that, Yeah, I mean,

848
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 2: I had so many thoughts that went through my mind.

849
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: I was just thinking about how it's so common for

850
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 2: us to start hating ourselves, being harsh on ourselves when

851
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 2: the situation is so complex, but almost our simple answer

852
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 2: is I'm the problem. It's like, if someone breaks up

853
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 2: with us, we think I'm the problem. I'm the weak one.

854
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: It's over. If we choose to end something, we still

855
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 2: blame ourselves. If you're someone who's self reflective enough, you

856
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: still blame yourself. And I messed up. I don't deserve love.

857
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll never get it. And I had a message

858
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 2: recently from a friend who is going through a breakup

859
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 2: and they were just like, I'm breaking up because I

860
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 2: don't think this helps me grow anymore. It's not even

861
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 2: like there's anything wrong with it. It's just like it's

862
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 2: not right for them. But they were like, I'm just

863
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 2: feeling guilty, and they're like, I also feel guilty because

864
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 2: obviously the other person feels bad, and I can't even

865
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 2: give them a real answer. To it because there isn't

866
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 2: It's just a feeling. And it is so interesting how

867
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 2: forgiveness is such the topic I'm thinking about our audience

868
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 2: right now. One thing I've been trying to ask people

869
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 2: to help people is have you ever been heartbroken? And

870
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 2: what was the process or what was the one thing

871
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 2: that helped you live through that, because I think so

872
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: many of our audience are in that position that they

873
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 2: come to me for that a lot. What was helpful

874
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: to you?

875
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: I have definitely been heartbroken in separate occasions, and because

876
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: this happened to different parts of my life, I reacted

877
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: in different ways. Earlier on, I really needed my friends,

878
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: I really needed people around me to just surround me

879
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: with love, and for me, music has always been the bomb.

880
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: So I would listen and I would sort of like

881
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: try to feed myself with the things that would give

882
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 1: me good energy. And for me, that sometimes is like running,

883
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 1: working out and eating good food, speaking to good people,

884
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: having good experiences, creating newer memories on my own, and

885
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 1: that really was the thing that would help me with heartbreak,

886
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: but also like dealing with the fact that I felt

887
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: heartbroken and admitting, oh, I this broke my heart and

888
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: then later on it really was about I love a conversation.

889
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: I like real closure, so I want to have like

890
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: an actual, real conversation. And I've always not necessarily always,

891
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: but I've tried to in most of the relationships that

892
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: have en did and it's not me ending them. Have

893
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: given an opportunity for conversation, like to talk about it,

894
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: and I've tried to be as honest and I've asked

895
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: the person to be honest about what it is that

896
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 1: has happened, whether or not that's taken not always, and

897
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: then sometimes it's taken sort of later on fine, but

898
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: it's really I think if you can have your conversation,

899
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: have the conversation and try to end it as amicably

900
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 1: as you possibly can, and if you can't, then I

901
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: know this sounds really strange, but have the conversation, but

902
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: just not with that person, Like what would that conversation

903
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: in your head be, How would you have had that conversation,

904
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: What would you have said if you had the opportunity

905
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: to sit in front of someone say hey, this really

906
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: had my feelings and this is this is where I

907
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: am with this right now, and I'm really finding it

908
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 1: hard to deal with or my heart's broken, and I

909
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: needed to heal and have those conversations, write those feelings down.

910
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: The one thing you cannot do is keep a hold

911
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: of that and swallow the feeling and never let it out,

912
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: because I think it grows, it becomes something else. A

913
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 1: heartbreak that isn't shared, heartbreak that isn't exorcised, I think,

914
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: becomes resentment and becomes sour. You know, because outbreaks a

915
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: real emotion. It's actually actually, strangely quite a lovely, beautiful

916
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: emotion means you're alive. If you have a heart to break,

917
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: it means your heart is beating. So it's not a

918
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: bad emotion. However, if you harbor it and never let

919
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: it go and never share it just like you share love,

920
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: just like you share happiness, and you share joy, then

921
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: it becomes something else. We don't keep joy to ourselves.

922
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: We can't, it's impossible to. It sort of comes out

923
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 1: of us, whether we like it or not. We don't

924
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: keep love to ourselves. We want to give out love.

925
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: We want to share love, because that only multiplies. If

926
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: we keep heartbreak to ourselves, it becomes something else. It mutates, fotastasize,

927
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: and it sticks to us. And what that does is

928
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,879
Speaker 1: stops us from being able to If you don't mend

929
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: your heart, it can't be whole again for something else.

930
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: And I'm assuming that anyone who has their heart broken

931
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: wants their heart to be whole again so that they

932
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: can share their heart with someone else again.

933
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, Yeah, I love that. I love that. That

934
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 2: really resonated that idea of how emotions are not meant

935
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 2: to be held on too, and the sad and the

936
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: tough ones are the only ones. But we do we

937
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 2: hold on to tightly. And if there was someone who

938
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 2: was feeling like, oh my god, there's only this much

939
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 2: joy in the world, I'm going to hold onto it,

940
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 2: which we do sometimes yea, yeah, we're like, oh no, no,

941
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to be really scarce about joy. We know

942
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 2: that doesn't work, It disappears, it goes away. And yet

943
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 2: it's so interesting that idea of why we hold on

944
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,439
Speaker 2: to the hard emotions and don't hold onto the beautiful ones,

945
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 2: and it limits us. But first, here's a quick word

946
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 2: from the brands that support the show. All right, thank

947
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 2: you to our sponsors. Now let's dive back in. When

948
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about your album and that idea of what

949
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 2: you just said of recognizing that we can forgive ourselves

950
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 2: for ways in which we want to be better, but

951
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 2: that doesn't make us a bad person. I think you're

952
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 2: so right that as humans, we've got good at making

953
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 2: it this binary black and white choice of I'm either

954
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 2: a good person or I'm a bad person. And actually

955
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 2: I've seen people with good intentions do more bad because

956
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 2: they're trying so hard to be a good person rather

957
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: than taking that Like I remember a guy that was

958
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 2: mentoring a while ago. He was saying like, Oh, I

959
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 2: don't want to break up with her because it will

960
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 2: hurt her, And I was like, but you're hurting yourself

961
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 2: and you're hurting her for longer because you don't want

962
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,439
Speaker 2: to be seen as a bad person. So you'd rather

963
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 2: be seen as a good guy, hurt her long term

964
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 2: and hurt yourself. And by the way, we all go

965
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 2: through this, you don't to let people down down And

966
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 2: so it's like, how did you reconcile those two things,

967
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 2: because I think it's a very human thing, like we

968
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: don't want to let people down now we won't be

969
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 2: able to be happy. We don't want to break someone's heart.

970
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 2: But the reality is that is how the way things go, I.

971
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 1: Think in the long term. So when I had broken

972
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: up with someone, when it was my choice to break

973
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 1: up with someone, I saw very clearly that we weren't

974
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 1: growing together anymore and that we weren't right for one

975
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: another anymore, and that us being together would actually be

976
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: to the detriment of the both of us. If I'm

977
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: in something that that I'm miserable in, that I'm not

978
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 1: happy in, then the likelihood is that is going to

979
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: grow within the relationship that I'm going to continue to

980
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: be miserable, and that person is also going to experience

981
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: the most miserable version of myself, and that isn't good

982
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: for anyone because I'm not fertile ground for happiness if

983
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: I'm doing that, which means it removes the ability for

984
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: the other person also to be in a relationship that's happy.

985
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 1: And I would rather remove myself from the situation so

986
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: that they can go on and find whoever it is

987
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: that they're meant to be with, because we will find

988
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 1: the people that were meant to be with, and maybe

989
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: we're meant to be with someone for a season, and

990
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: then we move on and find the person that we're

991
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: meant to be with full life, or maybe we're meant

992
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: to be with several people for a season and that's

993
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: what we're meant to do, or we're meant to learn

994
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: from the people that were with to become the people

995
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: that were supposed to be before we end up in

996
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: the relationship were supposed to end up in. And I

997
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: just knew that I couldn't continue to pretend to be

998
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,720
Speaker 1: something I wasn't within a relationship that wasn't It wasn't

999
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: feeding me in the way I needed it to. And

1000
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: because of that, I knew it wasn't going to be

1001
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: feeding the other persons so strongly. It's really hard, though

1002
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: you feel like such a letdown for doing it. You

1003
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: feel I hate to use this word, but you feel

1004
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: like a villain for doing it, for hurting someone. But sometimes,

1005
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 1: and this may be a hard thing to say, but

1006
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: sometimes hurting someone actually aids the growth of another person.

1007
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: When we experience hurt, we are forced to grow again.

1008
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 1: It is another human emotion that we have to experience

1009
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: as we grow because it teaches us about what we are,

1010
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 1: how to react or how to soothe, how to use

1011
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: the hurt to turn into something else. Right, we're all

1012
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: going to be hurt at some point in our lives.

1013
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: That is not something that we can prevent. We're all

1014
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 1: going to hurt someone in our lives. That's also something

1015
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: we cannot prevent. We are also always going to we

1016
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: are all going to be hurt ourselves in general. It's

1017
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: not going to that's something we can't prevent, and it's

1018
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: not something we run headlong into. But when it presents itself,

1019
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 1: we also have to be brave enough to be the

1020
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: people that either experience it or serve it, not vindictively,

1021
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 1: not because we want to, but because it's sometimes necessary

1022
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 1: to begin again.

1023
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love what you just said there, that sometimes

1024
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 2: we hurt people, and sometimes people hurt us, and then

1025
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 2: sometimes we hurt ourselves. Yes, and all of that you

1026
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,959
Speaker 2: can't prevent. That's going to happen in the natural flow

1027
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 2: of life, And all we can learn to do is

1028
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 2: those people that we hurt, Yeah, try to help in

1029
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 2: the best way possible and recognize that. Like I'm thinking

1030
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 2: about it as you're talking about it. Whenever I've if

1031
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 2: I've broken up with someone, there's no part of me

1032
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 2: that was excited about it, were happy about it, felt

1033
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 2: good about it. Not only because I believe a good

1034
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 2: person and want to be a good person, but because

1035
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 2: I don't like causing anyone pain. But it made me.

1036
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,879
Speaker 2: What it changed in me was it made me more

1037
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 2: responsible in the future of how I was with someone

1038
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 2: and how I conducted myself and thought about relationship. When

1039
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 2: I was a teenager, probably felt too quick, probably like

1040
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 2: you know, was all in like, didn't really recognize what

1041
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 2: that was. And as I grew up, it was like, no, Okay,

1042
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 2: now I understand I need to slow things down. Like

1043
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 2: one of the things I say to see so many

1044
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 2: people is don't fall in love too fast, because when

1045
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 2: you fall in love too fast, that's when love is blind.

1046
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 2: That's when you.

1047
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: Fall you even't learned the person yet, and.

1048
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 2: You haven't really understood, Like you understand there, you understand

1049
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 2: what they like, but you don't really know anything about them.

1050
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 2: Beyond that, you understand very little information about them. But

1051
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 2: it's such a hard process to forgive ourselves for breaking

1052
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 2: someone's heart and to forgive ourselves for when someone breaks

1053
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 2: our heart, because if someone breaks didn't.

1054
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 1: I see, how comes I don't know all of those things,

1055
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: all of those things sometimes you won't see and also

1056
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: sometimes there's nothing to do with you. Sometimes it's not you,

1057
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: it's that the other person needs something else, and that's okay.

1058
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: And sometimes it might be the other way around. Sometimes

1059
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 1: it isn't them, you need something else.

1060
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 2: That's actually it. Yeah, that's it. Like what you just

1061
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 2: said there, that is actually what it is. That when

1062
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 2: you're breaking up with them, it's actually all to do

1063
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 2: with you, and when they broke up with you, it

1064
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 2: was all to do with them. And the problem is

1065
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 2: in both those situations, we make it all about us.

1066
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 2: It's our fault, we messed up, you know, or we

1067
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 2: blame it on them as well. Yeah, no, it's fascinating.

1068
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 2: There was a couple of lyrics from the album that

1069
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: I just I had to talk about. So this is

1070
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 2: from the song that's already out replay. Yes, and I'm

1071
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 2: going to I should let you do this, but I'll

1072
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 2: do it anyway to remind you I'm the best overachiever.

1073
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 2: There's not anyone like me. And you'd think that was

1074
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 2: a good thing till you're told that's not healthy. You

1075
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 2: spend every waking hour working hard to write your will,

1076
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:08,720
Speaker 2: patiently waiting for validation until you're empty and unfulfilled. So powerful,

1077
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 2: I love it. It's even just reading it, it's like

1078
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 2: and then getting to hear you singing it. The part

1079
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 2: that I was really that really stood out to me

1080
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:16,919
Speaker 2: because I think so many people struggle with it today.

1081
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 2: Is this waiting for validation? Yeah, there's such a you'll

1082
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 2: want to be validating. Yes, I've been thinking about this

1083
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 2: a lot. Yeah, what is the right type of validation

1084
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,320
Speaker 2: to crave and what's the unhealthy validation to crave?

1085
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 1: I don't even know, because I think all of it

1086
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:35,760
Speaker 1: is healthy and all of it is unhealthy to be honest,

1087
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: because the only real validation that matters is what you

1088
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: feel about yourself on the inside. Once it's once you've

1089
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: done something, do you know what I'm saying? Like, because

1090
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 1: you're never really going to please everybody. Everyone is seeing

1091
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: you objectively. They are They have their own idea of

1092
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 1: who you are and what you've been through and the

1093
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: type of human being you are, the type experiences you have.

1094
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 1: They haven't lived your experience, so all they have is

1095
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: what you tell them, right, All they have is what

1096
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: they see of you. And so as wonderful as it

1097
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 1: is when people are lovely and they say complimentary things

1098
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:15,919
Speaker 1: and they you know, love the music, or there's also

1099
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 1: the other side that isn't that and that doesn't and

1100
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: isn't kind. And so if we don't take them in

1101
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 1: equal measure, then we're suggesting that one is more important

1102
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 1: than the other. But both come from people who are

1103
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:32,879
Speaker 1: experiencing you in the exact same way, right, So why

1104
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,240
Speaker 1: wouldn't you take the bad and the good inequal measure.

1105
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: But it doesn't feel good to take the bad inequal

1106
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:42,959
Speaker 1: measure as the good, right, so we make this more

1107
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 1: important than this. So I honestly think that I spent

1108
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:53,399
Speaker 1: a lot of my life trying to do things like

1109
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: you know, I was talking about my dad and what

1110
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 1: that felt like, and I was trying to prove to

1111
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: him that I was lovable. And you know, in the

1112
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 1: beginning of this, I would do my work and I want,

1113
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: you know, whether it be social media or whether it

1114
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 1: would be reviews. And you want the good reviews, and

1115
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: you want people to say really nice things. You want

1116
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: people who you've never met to love you. And that

1117
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 1: is the driving force behind the work. And in the end,

1118
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't serve you at all. It's wonderful, it's lovely

1119
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 1: to hear it, but if you don't feel that way

1120
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: about yourself. If you don't believe in the work you're doing,

1121
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: if you don't love the skin that you're in, the

1122
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: work that comes from you, the things that you get

1123
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 1: to say, the people you get to meet. If you

1124
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: don't love that work, none of the comments, none of

1125
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: the lovely compliments, none of the making someone finally fall

1126
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: in love with you matters. What it does is come

1127
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: to an empty shell. You have to learn how to

1128
00:57:56,040 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 1: fill up yourself because that's what fills you, that's what

1129
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: feels actually good, that's what actually feels good. Like is

1130
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: what does this work? How does this work serve you

1131
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: in your life? Does it serve other people? And I

1132
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 1: also think that in doing of work, sometimes we think

1133
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: that it's only it is about us, But it's a

1134
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 1: cyclical thing. I think if you can do the best

1135
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: you can do in your work, if you can really

1136
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 1: pour yourself into the work in the right way that

1137
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: feels authentic to who you are, then you can actually

1138
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: serve that work to other people, that you can actually

1139
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: be of service to other people. And I really I

1140
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: talk about this when it comes to music and comes

1141
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: to teaching. When it comes to singing, it's less about

1142
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: me getting a big applause at the end of a

1143
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 1: song that is lovely, But that couldn't matter less than

1144
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: actually looking at someone's eyes in the audience and knowing

1145
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: that I've connected with them, knowing that this song means

1146
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: the world to this person, that this song is an

1147
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 1: expression of what they are. Also might be feeling that

1148
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 1: my being able to sing something in a way that

1149
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: connects with someone else that allows them to then process

1150
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 1: something that they've also been through. That, to me is

1151
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 1: what I love. That for me, is that's the question

1152
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 1: you answered that that's actually the best validation. It's not

1153
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 1: actually what people say, it's what I can witness someone feeling.

1154
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: To me, that is the best validation for me, I

1155
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: don't have to wait for that validation. That's almost instant.

1156
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: It happens when I speak to someone, when I sing

1157
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: to someone. A person can't hide how they feel, you know,

1158
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 1: even though we think we can, we actually cannot. It

1159
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: shows up in the small minute movements in our body.

1160
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: It shows up in our faces, It shows up in

1161
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: how we express It shows up in how open we

1162
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 1: are when we're speaking to a person. More than a

1163
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: person saying, oh my god, that was amazing, which is lovely.

1164
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: But actually I'm not necessarily seeking a hundred thank yous

1165
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: and a hundred you're amazing. I'm not looking for that.

1166
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 1: I'm actually looking for how deeply can I connect with people?

1167
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: How much can I make people feel? Does this mean

1168
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: that someone is going to go and figure out something

1169
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: in their relationships with someone? Does this mean that they're

1170
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 1: going to finally have a conversation with that person that

1171
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: they haven't spoken to for years because they've been harboring

1172
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: a feeling that they haven't yet faced. If that is

1173
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 1: what comes off my music, my work, teaching, whatever it is,

1174
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 1: then that's the validation I want, right. But what that

1175
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: lyric speaks about is the other sort that you're sort

1176
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: of waiting for people to say that you're amazing. You're

1177
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 1: waiting for people to give you, like all of the

1178
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 1: outward input that you can take. But eventually it's that

1179
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: old weird thing where you see one hundred lovely messages

1180
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 1: and you see that one message that isn't great, and

1181
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 1: everything comes tumbling down because it isn't based on anything,

1182
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: there's no foundation for it. Right, But if you can

1183
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: connect with that one person, those ten people, those fifteen

1184
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: people in that audience when their tears are falling and

1185
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: you can hear it. In There's something really wonderful about

1186
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 1: when it's quiet and you hear that one person go.

1187
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 1: You go, Okay, that person's connected and they're feeling something

1188
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 1: you make people feel. Then then that's the valization we want.

1189
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, might drop Oh yeah that Yeah, I and I

1190
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:29,439
Speaker 2: feel that. Yeah, you know, like you, I feel that.

1191
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 2: And as I was listening to you, I was thinking,

1192
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 2: sometimes when I'm speaking to a large group or leading

1193
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 2: a meditation for like maybe sometimes I've been fortunate enough

1194
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 2: to lead meditations for like five, ten, twenty, thirty thousand people,

1195
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 2: maybe even more in one time, and I almost in

1196
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 2: my mind when I'm leading it, I'll go back to

1197
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 2: when there were just ten people. Yeah, and when I

1198
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 2: used to lead meditations for five people in because that's

1199
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 2: also what we all want to feel. Yeah, Like we're

1200
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 2: all looking for intimacy deeply. That's what we're seeking is intimacy,

1201
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 2: and we go to these big group gatherings to feel.

1202
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 2: And that's what music does for people, is it makes

1203
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 2: us feel intimate with the person standing next to us

1204
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 2: because we have a shared experience. And I feel intimate

1205
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 2: with the person singing it, because I feel a shared experience,

1206
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 2: and that's what we're all seeking, is this intimacy in

1207
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 2: this mass. We're still looking for this moment where I

1208
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 2: just caught a glimpse of even someone in the audio.

1209
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 2: We both kind of know, we both felt what we

1210
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 2: just heard. And it's really interesting to me that we've

1211
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:43,919
Speaker 2: confused validation with love. We've confused attention with affection, We've

1212
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 2: confused praise with power and purity, and over here we're

1213
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 2: really seeking intimacy, but we'll trade it for adulation and

1214
01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 2: adoration everything else that does quite hit this spart. And

1215
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 2: as I was listening to you, I love that for

1216
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 2: you as your definition, And I think that's what's so important,

1217
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 2: is having your definition of what validation matters to you,

1218
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 2: because otherwise you'll constantly be pulled and pushed all over

1219
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 2: the place bye by everything that comes, and you'll run

1220
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 2: after it wherever it's delivered. Whereas you're really clear, like

1221
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 2: I do love the applause, of course, and so do I.

1222
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 2: I'm the same as you. I love it, of course

1223
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 2: it is. But like when yesterday when I was flying

1224
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 2: home and one of the air stewards came up to

1225
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 2: me and was just like, don't stop doing what you're doing.

1226
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 2: It really makes a difference.

1227
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 1: It's so wonderful because because you know that you have

1228
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 1: affected a person, it isn't just face value like you

1229
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 1: have I use the word infiltrated their nervous system, right,

1230
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: You're part of how they now moved through their days.

1231
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 1: Something about what you said has affected the way they

1232
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 1: now behave towards other people and behave in their lives.

1233
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 1: And that is really really special, Like that's actually the

1234
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: core of what we're supposed to be doing as human beings,

1235
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 1: not even just in my field or your field, but

1236
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: as human beings, what we want to be able to

1237
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 1: do is give a person something that they can take

1238
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 1: away with them into their own lives. If we can

1239
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 1: do that for me beyond anything.

1240
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's so true. And I think like whether

1241
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 2: you're a musician, yes, whether you're a creator, whether you're

1242
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 2: an author, whether you're an entrepreneur making a product. If

1243
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:42,919
Speaker 2: you look at your comment section or your reviews, you'll

1244
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 2: see people pouring their heart who you've impacted. But the

1245
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 2: mind just wants the next million way or the next

1246
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 2: ten k and revenue or whatever it is that you're

1247
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 2: working towards and like you missed the facts.

1248
01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 1: A human who took the time to be like you

1249
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: changed something for me, you know. So I don't know.

1250
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about as you were speaking to you, please,

1251
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 1: something came up for me when you were talking about intimacy.

1252
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: There's a concert hall that I performed and I but

1253
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 1: it was in the round, and which means that the

1254
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: stage is sort of in the center but still in prostarch,

1255
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 1: which means you have a front of the stage and

1256
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: then it comes back but behind you there are people

1257
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: seated watching from behind, so they have your head and

1258
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 1: your backs for most of it, and then there are

1259
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 1: people sitting in front in the round. And I remember,

1260
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 1: and I will always I would always do this, whether

1261
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 1: we like it or not. We want to be seen.

1262
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 1: So what I would try to do when I'm in

1263
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: those theaters is before we really launch into the whole concert,

1264
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 1: I would always sing a portion of the music to

1265
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 1: the people who would not just get the back of

1266
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: my head, because what that says is I see you

1267
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: as well, and as a form of intimacy to go, yes,

1268
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 1: I see you, but I also know that there are

1269
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 1: people who are behind me who are who want to

1270
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: be a part of this as much as you, And

1271
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: they're only getting the back of my head and the

1272
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 1: back of my shoulders and they're not getting the front

1273
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 1: of me, which is you know, our heart is cage.

1274
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 1: This is the thing I think of. Our heart is

1275
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: in our in our rib cage and within all of that.

1276
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 1: But it's in the front and they get the back.

1277
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 1: So you kind of want to make sure that they

1278
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 1: get your heart to they get to see the front

1279
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: of you where your heart is placed, right, it's here,

1280
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,320
Speaker 1: but this is where we that's where we in our

1281
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 1: like in imaginations, this is where it is. So you

1282
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 1: turn to them and you you're open, so you say, hey,

1283
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 1: I see you, and I can see you here and

1284
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 1: I know that you're get in the back of my head,

1285
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to leave you out. I want

1286
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 1: you to be a part of this intimate experience that

1287
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 1: we're having together. And I feel like within this music,

1288
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I want to do. Like we're

1289
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: in the round, and I think a lot of people

1290
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: have had the back of my head and a lot

1291
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:18,480
Speaker 1: of people have had the back of my shoulders and

1292
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 1: the back of me, and I really want for this

1293
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 1: album to be like me turning around and going, hey,

1294
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 1: I see you, and I want you to see my

1295
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 1: heart too as well, because I know that there's a

1296
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 1: large amount of people who've seen me and my heart,

1297
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 1: but there are some people who don't know that part

1298
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 1: of me, and they see the pretty dresses and they

1299
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 1: see me say nice things and all those things. But

1300
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: I want them to get in front of me too.

1301
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:46,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you did that in the album, like it

1302
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 2: comes across thank you. It's such an invitation, yeah, into

1303
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:54,240
Speaker 2: that intimate space for yourself for them, Yeah, And that's

1304
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:55,960
Speaker 2: why I think like people are going to listen to this.

1305
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 2: Whether they've just gone through a breakup or a divorce,

1306
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 2: they're going to listen to this. If they're just falling

1307
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 2: in love, they're going to listen to this. Yeah, they're

1308
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 2: going to listen to this album. If they're on their

1309
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 2: own journey, they're going to listen to this album with

1310
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 2: their friends. Like I feel like it's one of those

1311
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:14,520
Speaker 2: albums that you're going to experience, not just listen to,

1312
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 2: not just have one in the background. And yeah, it's

1313
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:19,680
Speaker 2: it's so special. A couple more things I want to

1314
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 2: ask you about. There was another lyric from replay as well,

1315
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 2: and you were mentioning it just there it was this

1316
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 2: and it's so powerful and I'm a big fan of

1317
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 2: break like reading lyrics.

1318
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 1: Like this album is that.

1319
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's such a because it's such mastery as well,

1320
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,760
Speaker 2: like for even anyone who loves poetry and writing, and

1321
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:43,160
Speaker 2: it's just that you go, daddy, trauma has emasculated all

1322
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 2: my common sense. So I'm looking through the lens of

1323
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 2: an impending abandonment. All the voices in my head, some

1324
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 2: not worth the time you spent. So I searched for

1325
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 2: an escape before you notice your mistake. And I mean,

1326
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 2: I mean it's just beautiful to even read off the

1327
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 2: page like it's such a The part that struck out

1328
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 2: to me there was the so I'm looking through the

1329
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 2: lens of an impending abandonment, and I was like, goes

1330
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 2: back to what you were just saying. Now that people

1331
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:12,559
Speaker 2: feel that, Yeah, people feel really abandoned by themselves too.

1332
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: It's also about feeling abandoned and then taking that into

1333
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 1: everything you go into. And so even now sometimes I

1334
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 1: expect people to leave. So what the way I move,

1335
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 1: the way I work, I don't trust people quickly. I

1336
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:36,320
Speaker 1: am expecting them to go away. It's sort of like,

1337
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:38,679
Speaker 1: if I can set myself up to know that I'm

1338
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 1: going to be abandoned, then I can't be hurt when

1339
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 1: it happens. Yes, right, And so what I've had to

1340
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 1: do over time is start to trust people and to

1341
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 1: not tart everything with a brush of abandonment. If a

1342
01:09:57,160 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 1: person has to leave, a person has to leave, that's okay.

1343
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 1: They're not abandoning. They're simply leaving, you know. And that

1344
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 1: isn't to say that the experience of feeling abandoned isn't real,

1345
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:13,840
Speaker 1: but it is also to say that that experience of

1346
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:20,439
Speaker 1: abandonment isn't always what happens. And for a really long time,

1347
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell the difference. And so every time a

1348
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 1: friend left, or I broke up with a person, or

1349
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:34,839
Speaker 1: a relationship didn't quite work, it felt like a massive

1350
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: moment of abandonment. It felt like the floor was taken

1351
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 1: out from underneath me. And it's taken a long time

1352
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 1: to get to a point where I can trust that

1353
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 1: that's not the case. And so what that would do

1354
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 1: is stop me from saying how I really felt in

1355
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 1: a situation, because I didn't want them to go away.

1356
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:56,559
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1357
01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:00,120
Speaker 1: Well, you know, like if I'm not happy with something,

1358
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:02,960
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't say because I don't want them to

1359
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:07,520
Speaker 1: have a reason to leave, you know. Or if I

1360
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:11,040
Speaker 1: didn't want something, then I wouldn't say I don't want

1361
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 1: something because I was afraid that they would leave, right.

1362
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:19,479
Speaker 1: And unfortunately that leads sometimes to really dangerous situations because

1363
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:24,040
Speaker 1: you don't speak up. And I've had to learn to

1364
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 1: be okay with the idea that if someone leaves, they

1365
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 1: are meant to and if they're meant to come back,

1366
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 1: they will, right. But sometimes we're very afraid to chance it.

1367
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:43,720
Speaker 1: We're very afraid to let a person go. We are

1368
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:46,800
Speaker 1: afraid to let a person go, and we need to

1369
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:47,560
Speaker 1: be okay with it.

1370
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 2: And people go.

1371
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 1: Because they have their own journey as well. We don't

1372
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:55,439
Speaker 1: know what path people are walking on when they walk

1373
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 1: into our lives. We might just be a stepping stone

1374
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:02,679
Speaker 1: in their path, just like stepping stones are in their life,

1375
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 1: and they might just be a stepping stone in our

1376
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 1: lives as we keep moving forward. If we're not confident

1377
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 1: or comfortable enough to let that be a stepping stone

1378
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:14,960
Speaker 1: to move on to the next one, we won't go

1379
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:16,040
Speaker 1: anywhere we're stuck.

1380
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:18,639
Speaker 2: Would you say that's the hardest emotion you've ever had

1381
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:20,920
Speaker 2: to face and deal with or has it been harder.

1382
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 1: I think that has been because it's shown up in

1383
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 1: many different ways for different people. For me, and I

1384
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 1: think it's always that's always been the root emotion that

1385
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 1: makes other emotions amplified. Feeling abandon makes hurt feel a

1386
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 1: lot bigger than it than it should, or feeling abandoned

1387
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:45,719
Speaker 1: makes loss feel bigger than that. So it's like silly

1388
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 1: things like if a friend. If I call a friend

1389
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 1: and I don't this has happened before a friend of mine,

1390
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 1: and it was just their process. She would call, or

1391
01:12:57,240 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 1: I would call, she would pick up, We would have

1392
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:03,320
Speaker 1: the most amazing like conversation we would have, like the

1393
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:05,800
Speaker 1: connection would be right back where we were before and

1394
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 1: it would be lovely. And then I would call maybe

1395
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:12,200
Speaker 1: a month later, and she wouldn't pick up, or and

1396
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:15,479
Speaker 1: I wouldn't see her for another month or two, and

1397
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 1: I would take it so personally for me it would

1398
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 1: be like she's left me again. But actually that was

1399
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:24,680
Speaker 1: just her process. Sometimes she would go and sort of

1400
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:28,960
Speaker 1: shield herself and grow herself back and put herself back together.

1401
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,720
Speaker 1: And then she would appear again, and I had to

1402
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 1: learn that that is just the way she exists, and

1403
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:40,800
Speaker 1: I had to be okay with her way of existing.

1404
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 1: And once I learned that that's her way of existing,

1405
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:46,439
Speaker 1: it meant that I could welcome her with open arms

1406
01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't be so upset when she was gone

1407
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 1: that I knew that she was just putting herself back

1408
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:52,640
Speaker 1: together again, and I could just send a lot of

1409
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:54,800
Speaker 1: message of how are you, and I'm thinking of you,

1410
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna call you in a couple of weeks

1411
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:59,599
Speaker 1: and if you're around, I'm okay for a chat, and

1412
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 1: not expect anything, so that when something did come back,

1413
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 1: it was joyous. It was really wonderful when that feeling

1414
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:13,120
Speaker 1: of abandonment was the main focus. It felt really bad

1415
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 1: when she went away. And it's the same and it

1416
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:19,599
Speaker 1: had been the same in different relationships that when they

1417
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 1: had decided that they wanted to move on or when

1418
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 1: they it just felt like such a wound. And that

1419
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 1: is that is not sustainable. You can't live like that.

1420
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:36,720
Speaker 1: You can't live believing that everyone that is abandoning you,

1421
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:44,360
Speaker 1: because it makes for a really lonely existence. It means

1422
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 1: that you build up a wall of protection to stop

1423
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:53,400
Speaker 1: yourself from really being connected to anyone.

1424
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, even if you're surrounded by loads of people. Before

1425
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 2: we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our

1426
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:03,679
Speaker 2: sponsors and back to our episode. You know, you've been

1427
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 2: dedicated to your art for so many years, and I

1428
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:11,760
Speaker 2: feel like Wicked was like this global phenomenon. Yeah right,

1429
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 2: it's and you've been recognized in one awards and done

1430
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 2: phenomenal work, but Wicked was just Yeah, at least the day,

1431
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:22,759
Speaker 2: it felt different, Like how did that change your feeling

1432
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,840
Speaker 2: of fitting in and belonging? And because you're part of

1433
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 2: something bigger, yeah, bigger, Like, how does that kind of

1434
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 2: how do you make sense of that?

1435
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 1: What's really interesting is that I think I've really been

1436
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:37,280
Speaker 1: able to lean into who I am, and what I

1437
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:39,720
Speaker 1: noticed is that there are so many people in the

1438
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:43,439
Speaker 1: world who feel really different. And because I got to

1439
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:46,879
Speaker 1: do this piece that put me in front of many people,

1440
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:49,360
Speaker 1: it meant that there are other people who felt like

1441
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 1: they were invisible who finally felt visible again. And that

1442
01:15:52,439 --> 01:15:57,439
Speaker 1: has been something that's really wonderful to experience, to bump

1443
01:15:57,439 --> 01:16:01,480
Speaker 1: into people who didn't feel like they fit. Women specifically,

1444
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:05,560
Speaker 1: who have spoken to me about either women who have

1445
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 1: suffered cancer and have been through chemotherapy and lost their

1446
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 1: hair and said, and I'm not ill. My hair is

1447
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:13,920
Speaker 1: a choice. I shaved it first because of the film,

1448
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 1: and then I loved what it did to me. It

1449
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 1: meant that I really could just see my face and

1450
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:22,719
Speaker 1: me and we know that there's always a massive conversation

1451
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:25,840
Speaker 1: around hair and what it does and how long someone's

1452
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:28,400
Speaker 1: hair is or how smooth or how straight or whatever

1453
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 1: that is, or how curd it whatever, and I had

1454
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:33,639
Speaker 1: made a choice to not have it at all. And

1455
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:38,559
Speaker 1: the amount of women who have suffered alopacia, suffered, have

1456
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:42,000
Speaker 1: been through cancer and survived but now have to wear

1457
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:44,800
Speaker 1: wigs or don't wear wigs or have been sort of

1458
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:49,080
Speaker 1: shy about going without, have reached out and been like,

1459
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:53,960
Speaker 1: I saw you rocking no hair, and now I feel

1460
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 1: really confident about walking around with no hair and being baled,

1461
01:16:57,960 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: and I feel really strong about it. That's been a

1462
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:03,920
Speaker 1: huge eye opener that there are so many people who

1463
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:08,320
Speaker 1: feel like they don't belong. But seeing one person who's

1464
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:11,680
Speaker 1: very different from the norm, and you know, rocks what

1465
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:15,000
Speaker 1: they rock and are who they are, sort of put

1466
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:17,800
Speaker 1: out a little bit of permission to also be who

1467
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:21,680
Speaker 1: you are. And I think that for me was a

1468
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:24,960
Speaker 1: real crux of this. There are so many people trying

1469
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 1: to just discover themselves and they just need to see

1470
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 1: it on someone else to also decide or I can

1471
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 1: just be. That's been wonderful. The amount of eyes on

1472
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 1: you is really new for me. It's I'm still adjusting

1473
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 1: to it. And while I have, I'm really grateful for

1474
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:50,840
Speaker 1: the platform that has been given to me because of it.

1475
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 1: It's still a new thing. It's new to be heard

1476
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:59,280
Speaker 1: all the time. It's new to be seen all the time.

1477
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:01,839
Speaker 1: It's new to see, you know, walk through an airport

1478
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:05,040
Speaker 1: think that you're anonymous and not being honout at all,

1479
01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, even when you have no

1480
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:09,080
Speaker 1: makeup on it and it's like who you are. And

1481
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:10,799
Speaker 1: that's a norm for me to walk through an airport,

1482
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:12,800
Speaker 1: no makeup, no nothing. She sort of had on, just

1483
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 1: like ready to go, but not be recognized. But when

1484
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 1: you are recognized, it's a new that's very new for me.

1485
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:23,920
Speaker 1: It's also really wonderful because people are so excited by it,

1486
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:26,400
Speaker 1: and so excited by these characters, and so excited by

1487
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 1: the people who play the characters. That's also new. Before

1488
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:32,360
Speaker 1: I could play a character and they would recognize the character,

1489
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:38,160
Speaker 1: but not necessarily recognize me from the character. Now people

1490
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:40,920
Speaker 1: know me and the character, which is a new thing.

1491
01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:47,560
Speaker 1: Also that they are able to separate the person Alphaba

1492
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:52,320
Speaker 1: who I played, and me Cynthia. That's also a new thing,

1493
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:56,080
Speaker 1: which is lovely because it means that I guess I've

1494
01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:59,120
Speaker 1: made an impression as me as well as an impression

1495
01:18:59,120 --> 01:19:02,040
Speaker 1: as the character, which is really lovely. It's nice to

1496
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:04,559
Speaker 1: be able to people have welcomed me into their homes.

1497
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 2: Yea, yeah, I love that. Well, I think RADI sent

1498
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 2: you that little clear of my niece calls me Alphaba

1499
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:15,559
Speaker 2: and she thinks she's Glinda and she just made this up.

1500
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:16,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

1501
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 2: And so literally every voice note to me is she

1502
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:21,120
Speaker 2: calls me Alphabe and now I'm Alphabet to her. And

1503
01:19:21,160 --> 01:19:23,719
Speaker 2: so when Raley told her that we know the real Alfama,

1504
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:26,479
Speaker 2: she just cann't believe it. And you know, but it's

1505
01:19:26,479 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 2: one of those things of like just it meant so much,

1506
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:33,400
Speaker 2: like I feel like you and Ariana like meant so

1507
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:35,639
Speaker 2: much more than a movie to people.

1508
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:38,439
Speaker 1: It felt that, Yes, people came to see the movie,

1509
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 1: and people loved what the movie said. But I spoke

1510
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:44,439
Speaker 1: to someone who's who said that they were a couple

1511
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:47,559
Speaker 1: of parents actually who said that this movie has given

1512
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:51,760
Speaker 1: them the opportunity to have conversations with their kids. And

1513
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:54,160
Speaker 1: I'm talking about like seven year olds, six year olds

1514
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:58,800
Speaker 1: to talk about playground politics and being different and being

1515
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:02,559
Speaker 1: excluded and what that fee like, and the ownership over

1516
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:06,120
Speaker 1: one's self and deciding to be who you are against

1517
01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:09,000
Speaker 1: all odds and having those conversations between adult and kid

1518
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:11,840
Speaker 1: and how difficult that can be when there's nothing to

1519
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 1: bring that conversation up. But because of this movie, it's

1520
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,840
Speaker 1: meant that people can have those conversations, you know, and

1521
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:22,280
Speaker 1: then people our age who are leaning more into their friendships,

1522
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 1: leaning more into their relationships that they have that can

1523
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:28,120
Speaker 1: be difficult, but they can pour more energy into them,

1524
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:32,280
Speaker 1: and then leaning more into discovering who they are as people.

1525
01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:35,639
Speaker 1: And even though it can be scary to be who

1526
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,040
Speaker 1: you are meant to be, to show up as yourself,

1527
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 1: it's equally as rewarding. And those conversations that this has

1528
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:47,800
Speaker 1: sort of brought to life is blown my mind, and

1529
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:51,160
Speaker 1: it means something different to every single person. You think

1530
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:55,000
Speaker 1: it's possible, but when you see it, it's beyond it,

1531
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:55,640
Speaker 1: just beyond it.

1532
01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:57,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think the point you were making about

1533
01:20:57,479 --> 01:21:01,639
Speaker 2: how people accepted alphabet BA accept you, Yeah, I think

1534
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 2: that is because of how you showed up through all

1535
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 2: of the both you an era and I through all

1536
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:08,599
Speaker 2: the press. Yeah. It's almost that you didn't both show

1537
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:11,080
Speaker 2: up as movie stars, showed up as friends and people.

1538
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:13,280
Speaker 2: You showed up as people, and you felt that, and

1539
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 2: I think that's what everyone felt, where it was like, oh,

1540
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 2: they didn't show up as two people who were promoting

1541
01:21:18,479 --> 01:21:20,960
Speaker 2: a movie. They showed up as themselves. And of course

1542
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:22,880
Speaker 2: we all love the movie and want to watch the

1543
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:24,720
Speaker 2: movie and all the rest of it. But it was

1544
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:27,280
Speaker 2: very different to what people have been exposed to before.

1545
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1546
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:28,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that you don't.

1547
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:30,120
Speaker 1: Usually even think we did that on purpose. I think

1548
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:32,479
Speaker 1: that's just that's just who we are, you know. I

1549
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:35,599
Speaker 1: think I don't know that. I said to myself, well,

1550
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:37,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to come to these q and a's and

1551
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:40,639
Speaker 1: I'm going to just talk about this and that I think.

1552
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:44,200
Speaker 1: I just there's something wonderful that exhaustion does to you,

1553
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:46,840
Speaker 1: where if the veil sort of falls away and we'd

1554
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:49,760
Speaker 1: been We were already exhausted before we begun the press

1555
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 1: store because we'd worked so long. We'd been working so

1556
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:55,240
Speaker 1: long on it, and we'd worked really hard. We didn't

1557
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:58,080
Speaker 1: really have much of time away from the film before

1558
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:01,519
Speaker 1: we began, you know, sharing it with people. We finished

1559
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:04,320
Speaker 1: the film in February, and we're on the road basically

1560
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:07,839
Speaker 1: from June, so that's not a long time. And between

1561
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:10,680
Speaker 1: that time we also were working on other things, so

1562
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:14,080
Speaker 1: we hadn't actually stopped. So by the time we were

1563
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:16,599
Speaker 1: in front of everybody, there was no energy to put

1564
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:20,200
Speaker 1: up pretenses. We just were who we were. And there's

1565
01:22:20,240 --> 01:22:25,960
Speaker 1: something wonderful about having only the energy to exist in

1566
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:29,840
Speaker 1: yourself in front of people. And once you begin that way,

1567
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:33,240
Speaker 1: it doesn't go in the other of the direction. It

1568
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:36,599
Speaker 1: just amplifies, and so we become You just watched us

1569
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:40,360
Speaker 1: become more and more and more of ourselves, and all

1570
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:42,960
Speaker 1: the tears that you saw were very, very real, because

1571
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:46,160
Speaker 1: the experience was still very raw. We only just had

1572
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 1: left it in February. That was the last time I

1573
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:52,479
Speaker 1: took off the green. I hadn't completely put her down yet.

1574
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:57,200
Speaker 1: I was still sort of decompressing and letting her go

1575
01:22:57,360 --> 01:23:00,800
Speaker 1: and putting myself back together in front of people. That's

1576
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 1: what was happening. And then we were having to talk

1577
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:06,000
Speaker 1: about our characters and talk about the experience, and it

1578
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 1: was only a month or two away, and that's sort

1579
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:13,599
Speaker 1: of how it was. And then because we're having these

1580
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:18,000
Speaker 1: constant conversations, we're also relearning and remembering and figuring things

1581
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 1: out and learning new things. There are things that I

1582
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:22,479
Speaker 1: didn't know that she was experiencing that I learned on

1583
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:24,360
Speaker 1: the spot, and there are things that I was experiencing

1584
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:26,679
Speaker 1: that she was learning on the spot, and the things

1585
01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:29,480
Speaker 1: that our director was experiencing that we had just realized.

1586
01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:33,200
Speaker 1: So we were learning new things in real time in

1587
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:35,680
Speaker 1: front of everybody, but we weren't pretending that it was

1588
01:23:36,479 --> 01:23:38,439
Speaker 1: old hat to us. We were realizing, oh my god,

1589
01:23:38,439 --> 01:23:40,800
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't know that that's a new thing

1590
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:45,760
Speaker 1: to learn. I think hopefully we'll make people do that more.

1591
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 1: When you're in this sort of business. And I was

1592
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:52,040
Speaker 1: speaking to someone about this, the tendency is to put

1593
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:56,439
Speaker 1: up the wall and try to protect yourself, and actually,

1594
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:00,559
Speaker 1: the most wonderful thing you can give any one who's

1595
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:06,800
Speaker 1: watching is a little bit of yourself and the revelation

1596
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:11,080
Speaker 1: that it is a human experience all of the things

1597
01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:13,720
Speaker 1: that it looks fancy when you're running around and you're

1598
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 1: in the pretty dresses, but when you're on a set,

1599
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:19,040
Speaker 1: it's as human and as real as you can possibly

1600
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:22,400
Speaker 1: make it. You're up early, you're exhausted every day, the

1601
01:24:22,439 --> 01:24:24,640
Speaker 1: makeup is coming on and off, and there's someone you know,

1602
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:26,760
Speaker 1: You're meeting loads of different people who you've only met

1603
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:28,479
Speaker 1: for the first time on day one, and then you've

1604
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:30,760
Speaker 1: got to perform that next day. It's a very vulnerable,

1605
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:34,880
Speaker 1: like very open experience, and you have to sort of

1606
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:37,280
Speaker 1: learn to get used to that quite quickly. And then

1607
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:39,200
Speaker 1: once you are used to that, you then make family

1608
01:24:39,280 --> 01:24:41,880
Speaker 1: with people and you're you get to know everyone's tells

1609
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:43,640
Speaker 1: and you get to know everyone's sort of like the

1610
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:45,640
Speaker 1: way people take all. She's really tired today. I'm going

1611
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 1: to bring her a cook and she likes chocolate chip

1612
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:49,680
Speaker 1: cookies and I know that will make her happy. Or

1613
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:52,120
Speaker 1: he actually is vegan, so he'll only have the double chocolate,

1614
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 1: which is you know, and he loves raising a note

1615
01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:56,280
Speaker 1: and that's his favorite thing. But don't put butter in it,

1616
01:24:56,280 --> 01:24:58,439
Speaker 1: because he actually really doesn't like you know, you start

1617
01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 1: to learn or people like she likes to eat at twelve,

1618
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:04,519
Speaker 1: but he likes to eat it too. He's tired, judging

1619
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:07,719
Speaker 1: by you know, how fast he's working. But actually she's

1620
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:10,000
Speaker 1: had a great morning because she's really quick, or she's

1621
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 1: quite shy, so go to her, speak to her quietly

1622
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:14,760
Speaker 1: or that. You learn people and then you have to

1623
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 1: let them go. You actually have to say goodbye. So

1624
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:22,920
Speaker 1: that's a really human experience once you come off a set.

1625
01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:26,479
Speaker 1: And I think when you promote something, when you're on

1626
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:30,400
Speaker 1: the road and you're talking about that experience, you do

1627
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 1: yourself and everyone else a service by making people understand

1628
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:39,960
Speaker 1: just how human the experience is, so that people understand

1629
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:43,840
Speaker 1: that it isn't just moving pictures and we aren't just people.

1630
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:46,679
Speaker 1: You sort of cut and splice together on that day,

1631
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:48,840
Speaker 1: this person, I've been having a terrible day, but yet

1632
01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:51,799
Speaker 1: they did this and that day she was in complete

1633
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:55,280
Speaker 1: pain in this harness that she'd been in for twelve hours,

1634
01:25:55,439 --> 01:25:57,640
Speaker 1: but she was still able to sing that. And on

1635
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:00,240
Speaker 1: this day she you know, even though she has an

1636
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:03,120
Speaker 1: allergy to whatever, she still moved through it because that

1637
01:26:03,320 --> 01:26:08,320
Speaker 1: was happening. You know, everyone is trying to create something

1638
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:13,679
Speaker 1: create art, and we're not doing it from the comfort

1639
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:16,639
Speaker 1: of our homes and our sofas. We're really on the ground,

1640
01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:19,559
Speaker 1: in the dirt, moving through it, and then we come

1641
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:22,400
Speaker 1: together to share it. That really is what being on

1642
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:25,679
Speaker 1: the road is about, sharing the experience. And I think

1643
01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:29,720
Speaker 1: we kind of knew that almost automatically, and I think

1644
01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:31,880
Speaker 1: it's something that I will take with me for the

1645
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:33,439
Speaker 1: rest of my life, not just for this next move,

1646
01:26:33,479 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 1: but for everything I do. To make it a really

1647
01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:38,439
Speaker 1: human experience is a gift.

1648
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:41,200
Speaker 2: I remember, I've traveled so much with my clients and

1649
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:43,720
Speaker 2: been on set and been in trailers from coaching someone

1650
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 2: or working with someone, and I couldn't believe how not

1651
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:52,760
Speaker 2: glamorous film sets are. They're just not at all. And

1652
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:55,920
Speaker 2: it's so interesting because no one ever sees that. Now

1653
01:26:56,080 --> 01:26:58,040
Speaker 2: you only see the finished product, and then you see

1654
01:26:58,040 --> 01:27:00,880
Speaker 2: the red carpet, and so you assume actors have a

1655
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:05,479
Speaker 2: really like glamorous life. And actually, for four months, or

1656
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:09,640
Speaker 2: for projects like yours, for years, you're sitting in a

1657
01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:12,719
Speaker 2: tiny little trailer, you know, putting on your clothes, taking

1658
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:16,479
Speaker 2: them off lines like whatever, makeup, whatever it is. You

1659
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:18,760
Speaker 2: go on set. You wait for three hours you don't

1660
01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:20,840
Speaker 2: know when you're going back out. It's cold, it's you know,

1661
01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:24,559
Speaker 2: it's so interesting how what you see and what you

1662
01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:29,120
Speaker 2: think are two very different different things. And it dehumanizes

1663
01:27:29,200 --> 01:27:32,240
Speaker 2: people and and so there's there's such a need for that,

1664
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:34,640
Speaker 2: And I don't think I could ever be friends with

1665
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:36,759
Speaker 2: anyone who likes oatmeal. Raising cookies.

1666
01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:41,080
Speaker 1: So it's in the right way, and they're crunchy on

1667
01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:44,080
Speaker 1: the outside but sort of like soft and buttery on

1668
01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:48,840
Speaker 1: the inside. You can't convince me I think there's a

1669
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:50,040
Speaker 1: place for them in the world.

1670
01:27:50,360 --> 01:27:53,160
Speaker 2: I do think that. I think so there's that there's that.

1671
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:55,439
Speaker 2: I can't remember who said, if someone was like, raising

1672
01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:58,040
Speaker 2: cookies are the reason I have trust issues, because it's.

1673
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:03,120
Speaker 1: Exactly I will make like I because I do like

1674
01:28:03,160 --> 01:28:05,400
Speaker 1: to bake occasionally, and when I was when I was

1675
01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 1: on the set, I would make big tins, like two

1676
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 1: three tins full of like cookies for people. So I

1677
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:14,559
Speaker 1: would do like a set of chocolate chip, a set

1678
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:18,679
Speaker 1: of like double chocolate, some chocolate and salt like someone's

1679
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:22,200
Speaker 1: like salted caramel. And then for this one person, my

1680
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 1: wonderful first a d Jack who was like, I just

1681
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:30,800
Speaker 1: want oatmeal a raisin. That's what I want, and that's

1682
01:28:30,840 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 1: my favorite. And I would make them from scratch, and

1683
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 1: I would like with absolute love, and sometimes would I

1684
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:38,720
Speaker 1: would put maybe like raspberries in it, or sometimes I

1685
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:41,000
Speaker 1: would do white chocolate in it, and he would and

1686
01:28:41,280 --> 01:28:43,720
Speaker 1: if that's what someone loves, that's what someone loves. He

1687
01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:46,320
Speaker 1: would know very clearly that that is what that was

1688
01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:48,240
Speaker 1: that and I would make just a couple extra just

1689
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:50,240
Speaker 1: in case anyone else felt like they wanted to try,

1690
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:53,120
Speaker 1: and it would make it very clear this is not chocolate.

1691
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:56,640
Speaker 1: There is There are raisins, just so you trust me,

1692
01:28:57,120 --> 01:29:01,040
Speaker 1: but there are chocolate chip over there if you need.

1693
01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:06,040
Speaker 2: That's me over there. That's amazing that you're doing that.

1694
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:08,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would do it every Monday.

1695
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:12,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, that's so beautiful. Cynthia. It has

1696
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:14,280
Speaker 2: been such an honor to talk to you, and I

1697
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:16,800
Speaker 2: can literally talk to you for hours. But I yeah,

1698
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:19,519
Speaker 2: I just got it from your team. I just got

1699
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:21,839
Speaker 2: a little time nod. So I want to be mindful

1700
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:25,080
Speaker 2: of that, but honestly, you are. I just I love

1701
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:30,200
Speaker 2: meeting people whose work is infused with such deep inner work,

1702
01:29:30,520 --> 01:29:33,200
Speaker 2: like it really brings my heart joy to see that

1703
01:29:33,280 --> 01:29:36,040
Speaker 2: when people are putting art out into the world, it's

1704
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:41,439
Speaker 2: coming from so much revelation and reflection and inner work

1705
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:47,680
Speaker 2: because I think sometimes we all appreciate art, but for

1706
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:50,840
Speaker 2: so long in the world, you appreciated art but never

1707
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:53,800
Speaker 2: knew the artist until they died, maybe correct, and you

1708
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:56,720
Speaker 2: didn't really understand them because they weren't famous or there

1709
01:29:56,760 --> 01:29:59,439
Speaker 2: wasn't social media, podcasting didn't exist. It's like you saw

1710
01:29:59,439 --> 01:30:01,280
Speaker 2: a piece of art, you thought it's beautiful, but you

1711
01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:04,080
Speaker 2: don't really know that artist. Yeah, and I just really

1712
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 2: appreciate you just being so open and vulnerable. Thank you

1713
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:09,519
Speaker 2: as the artist, as the human because it gives us

1714
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:13,439
Speaker 2: such an invitation to understand ourselves better, understand you better.

1715
01:30:13,479 --> 01:30:15,680
Speaker 2: And I can't wait for people to listen to the

1716
01:30:15,720 --> 01:30:16,639
Speaker 2: album review.

1717
01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 1: I'm really proud of it.

1718
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:20,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you should be it really I meant every

1719
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:23,760
Speaker 2: word like it's when you hear new music in it

1720
01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:26,439
Speaker 2: and you're making sense of it just on your own,

1721
01:30:26,479 --> 01:30:29,360
Speaker 2: and it feels like that. I can't wait for people

1722
01:30:29,360 --> 01:30:32,640
Speaker 2: to hear it. And as always, friend, I'm rooting for you,

1723
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:36,040
Speaker 2: Thank you forever in your corner and so grateful for you.

1724
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:38,439
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me, thank you having me again.

1725
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:41,600
Speaker 2: If you love this episode, you will also love my

1726
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:46,120
Speaker 2: interview with Kendall Jenna on setting boundaries to increase happiness

1727
01:30:46,439 --> 01:30:48,519
Speaker 2: and healing. You're in a child You.

1728
01:30:48,479 --> 01:30:50,640
Speaker 3: Could be reading something that someone is saying about you

1729
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:52,680
Speaker 3: and being like, that is so unfair because that's not

1730
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:55,599
Speaker 3: who I am and that really gets to me sometimes.

1731
01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:57,400
Speaker 3: But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like,

1732
01:30:57,439 --> 01:30:59,880
Speaker 3: but I know who I am. Why does anything else matter?