1
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:04,480
Speaker 1: You know, I do reference this in this interview, but

2
00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: I met Nathan Chapman at the airport very quickly, and

3
00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:09,520
Speaker 1: I I kind of went up to him and bothered

4
00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:10,680
Speaker 1: him and was like, I'm a big fan. Then I

5
00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,560
Speaker 1: just walked off immediately, like the loser I am. But

6
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,320
Speaker 1: this guy's a big deal, and it's for me. These

7
00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,159
Speaker 1: are the fun ones because hopefully you're listening to this

8
00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,800
Speaker 1: because you you like, like the second level in music,

9
00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,160
Speaker 1: and sure we get the big stars, like the front facing,

10
00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,599
Speaker 1: big stage, sell tickets kind of people, but without people

11
00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,840
Speaker 1: like Nathan Chapman, they wouldn't be doing that. So it's

12
00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:31,520
Speaker 1: a cool one for me. He has a three time

13
00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,000
Speaker 1: Grammy winning producer. He's a songwriter. As a solo artist,

14
00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,400
Speaker 1: he has seventeen number one as a producer to number

15
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,960
Speaker 1: one as a songwriter. You would know him probably mostly

16
00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,720
Speaker 1: from being with Taylor Swift from the very beginning, you know,

17
00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,320
Speaker 1: back in two thousand seven he worked with her on

18
00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,080
Speaker 1: Tim McGraw and this song here started that career. So

19
00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,200
Speaker 1: it's pretty cool parents were musicians. He's done so much

20
00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:57,760
Speaker 1: and we talked about it, and we also talked about

21
00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,280
Speaker 1: what it means to be a producer. I think we

22
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,400
Speaker 1: hear that term used a lot. I do, but what

23
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,280
Speaker 1: does it even mean? What's a producer mean? What's a

24
00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,640
Speaker 1: manager mean? What's that? But we talk about him and

25
00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,640
Speaker 1: what he does when he produces an artist, how he

26
00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,039
Speaker 1: produces artists diff with another artists. But I really enjoyed this, Mike,

27
00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,199
Speaker 1: what did you think about this one? I kind of learned,

28
00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,479
Speaker 1: like what the processes of what he actually does, how

29
00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,440
Speaker 1: he goes into like helping an artist find their sound.

30
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,600
Speaker 1: That was cool. And since Mike heard this and learned it,

31
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,679
Speaker 1: he's already produced four number one songs himself. Four great job, Mike,

32
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,480
Speaker 1: than you how to do it? Nathan Chapman follow him

33
00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,840
Speaker 1: Nathan Chapman Official. Or what you can do is just

34
00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 1: go look and see what he looks like. You can

35
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,080
Speaker 1: visualize who I'm talking to. I do that all the

36
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,640
Speaker 1: time too on podcast. I don't follow them sometimes, but

37
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,240
Speaker 1: I will go up and listen to a podcast. I'll

38
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,360
Speaker 1: go look him up so I can picture when they're talking.

39
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,480
Speaker 1: Is that weird? I do that too? Okay, go look

40
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,760
Speaker 1: up Nathan Chapman at Nathan Chapman Official. Here he is,

41
00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,480
Speaker 1: Episode three forty one. Nathan Chapman. All right, Nathan Chapman

42
00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,200
Speaker 1: is here, which I don't know if you remember we've

43
00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,600
Speaker 1: met before at the airport. Okay, cool, I was like

44
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,240
Speaker 1: I told micause I met him. I don't know if

45
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,760
Speaker 1: he remembers me, but he was sitting like right when

46
00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:06,720
Speaker 1: you walk through, you were sitting at a little bench,

47
00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,320
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know in the Chapman you're like,

48
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:10,760
Speaker 1: I said, hey, man, a big fan. And I was like,

49
00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:12,680
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna get out because I don't know if

50
00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,360
Speaker 1: I'm creeping him out right this minute. And that was

51
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,920
Speaker 1: our That was our brief interaction. There was no creep

52
00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,720
Speaker 1: factor at all. Okay, I don't like to bother people

53
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,480
Speaker 1: like big stars like yourself, because I'm sure that people

54
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,560
Speaker 1: are constantly coming up to you, especially artists who are

55
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,280
Speaker 1: going hey, if I could just go be nice, And

56
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:31,880
Speaker 1: if I had seen you first, I would have had

57
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:33,560
Speaker 1: the same thought, like I don't want to bug Bobby,

58
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,280
Speaker 1: but I want to say high. Yeah, but I'm probably

59
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,400
Speaker 1: still good looking you were, you wouldn't kind of been intimidated,

60
00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,240
Speaker 1: you know, you've been like, wow, I don't know if

61
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,840
Speaker 1: I can get up there. I was talking to Tom

62
00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,799
Speaker 1: Douglas in a very similar setting and something that I

63
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,920
Speaker 1: just held onto until I was able to talk to

64
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,480
Speaker 1: you formally like this and you can tell me your

65
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,360
Speaker 1: version of the story. But he speaks very highly of you.

66
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 1: That's nice. And I was like, hey, yeah, Tommy hate you. Man.

67
00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know we're not. But he

68
00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,399
Speaker 1: was talking about raise him up with Keith Urban and

69
00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,359
Speaker 1: there's the part of the song that's very patriotic and

70
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,359
Speaker 1: now we know it because Eric Church sings that part

71
00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,360
Speaker 1: of the song. And his story was Keith didn't feel

72
00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,880
Speaker 1: comfortable because he's Australian singing that patriotic American party and

73
00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,120
Speaker 1: it was your idea, why don't we pursue Eric Church

74
00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,360
Speaker 1: for this? Is that it wasn't Eric Church specifically, But

75
00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,000
Speaker 1: what happened was, um, we were going to go in

76
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,000
Speaker 1: the next day and record that song and Keith called me.

77
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:31,920
Speaker 1: I think I was a Green Hills mall in the

78
00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,440
Speaker 1: parking lot. All of my big interactions in my career

79
00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,040
Speaker 1: has been in parking lots on the phone. Um like

80
00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,320
Speaker 1: moments that I remember. But he called me and he's like, man,

81
00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,000
Speaker 1: I I can't do that verse. I'm Australian. I respect

82
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,520
Speaker 1: that patriotic verse too much. I can't sing that the

83
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,440
Speaker 1: day before. Yeah, but the way Keith and I were

84
00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,720
Speaker 1: working during that time was just me playing a lot

85
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,800
Speaker 1: of the instruments and in him playing guitars, and so

86
00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:57,160
Speaker 1: it was just to doo us. So it didn't really

87
00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,480
Speaker 1: matter what song that we did. You know. It wasn't

88
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,000
Speaker 1: like he was throwing me a curveball as far as

89
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,360
Speaker 1: like logistics, but um he uh. He said, I've got

90
00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,720
Speaker 1: this other song that I feel like it's really similar

91
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,680
Speaker 1: in vibe to that, and I'll send you that and

92
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:15,240
Speaker 1: we should do that song instead, And I said, okay, cool,

93
00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:16,599
Speaker 1: send it to me. So he sent it to me

94
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,840
Speaker 1: and I listened and and I think I emailed him

95
00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:21,120
Speaker 1: back or I called him, and I was just like,

96
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:23,960
Speaker 1: this song is not as good as Raise Them Up?

97
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,120
Speaker 1: Like Raise Them Up is is the big winner to

98
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,919
Speaker 1: me between these two songs, And is there anything we

99
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,080
Speaker 1: can do to change your mind? Because I really feel

100
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,160
Speaker 1: like it's an amazing song. And I said, what about

101
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,240
Speaker 1: a duet? Like he's like, I'm not singing that verse?

102
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,800
Speaker 1: What about a duet? And that was He's like, that's

103
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,719
Speaker 1: a great idea, and he hung up. And then that

104
00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,000
Speaker 1: was it just that's it could buy click nothing, But

105
00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,040
Speaker 1: that's a great idea. I know what to do. So

106
00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,400
Speaker 1: about an hour later, I get a communication from I

107
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,840
Speaker 1: can't remember his caller text, and he's like, Eric Church

108
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,400
Speaker 1: is coming by tomorrow to sing. So that that's how

109
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,040
Speaker 1: it worked out. And I mean, so, you know, credit

110
00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,280
Speaker 1: to Keith for for thinking of Eric, credit to Eric

111
00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,200
Speaker 1: for being willing to do it late notice, and I

112
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,159
Speaker 1: guess credit to me for just pushing for a song

113
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,120
Speaker 1: I really believed in. But that's part of my job

114
00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 1: as a producers to help, you know, a and R project,

115
00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,400
Speaker 1: And I really believed in that song, and I knew

116
00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 1: Keith did too, but his his heart was in the

117
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:20,960
Speaker 1: right place. I just felt like it was too good

118
00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,279
Speaker 1: a song to just, you know, let it go. The

119
00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,880
Speaker 1: song that didn't end up being cut, I'm not gonna

120
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:27,760
Speaker 1: ask you what it was, But did it ever get

121
00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,560
Speaker 1: cut by anyone later? I don't know because I can't

122
00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,559
Speaker 1: remember it. I could go through my emails and find

123
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:37,120
Speaker 1: it probably, but um it was. It was really good.

124
00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:38,880
Speaker 1: And that's the thing about Raise Him Up or any

125
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,600
Speaker 1: song like that, Like I remember, the story goes, is

126
00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:46,559
Speaker 1: that Abby Adams who Rabbie Burke Culture when I worked

127
00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,560
Speaker 1: with her at Sony and now she's at Red Light

128
00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,919
Speaker 1: as a publisher. She sent that song to Keith and

129
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,680
Speaker 1: the subject line said song of the Year. And Keith

130
00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,839
Speaker 1: told me and he's like, when people do that, I

131
00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:57,760
Speaker 1: usually think it's, oh, this is gonna be a terrible song,

132
00:05:58,120 --> 00:05:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, because people don't talk stuff up. They don't

133
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,279
Speaker 1: stuff like that if it's if it's real. But he

134
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,640
Speaker 1: listened to and he's like, oh, yeah, that is that good,

135
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:09,560
Speaker 1: you know, with your resume of producing albums. I was

136
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,960
Speaker 1: just talking to one of my managers. I have two

137
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,359
Speaker 1: main managers. One of his name is Tom Betchy, and

138
00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,159
Speaker 1: he said I was just with them, yeah, talking about producing,

139
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, and he went through it Lacey or Thursday

140
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,240
Speaker 1: or Friday. Yeah, He's like, I love him. I'm super

141
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,119
Speaker 1: excited he's coming over. And so I was thinking about

142
00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,840
Speaker 1: because that's the infancy of that project that you guys

143
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:31,960
Speaker 1: might do. I don't know, I don't know if you're

144
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,239
Speaker 1: doing it or not. But before you take a project,

145
00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,040
Speaker 1: or let's say you just say I will produce this artist,

146
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,320
Speaker 1: what is the pre of what you have to do

147
00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,640
Speaker 1: before they come in and actually start recording. Okay, that's

148
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,680
Speaker 1: a great question. Um. I think that it's like measure

149
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,400
Speaker 1: twice cut once, you know, in construction, it's like the

150
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,800
Speaker 1: more thought you can put into the project before you

151
00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:02,000
Speaker 1: get the studio, the better. Sometimes that's the artist is

152
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,839
Speaker 1: obsessively overthinking what their record is going to be, and

153
00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,160
Speaker 1: I'm there to just kind of help realize it. Do

154
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,480
Speaker 1: you mean in concept or in sound or because again,

155
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,400
Speaker 1: your job is all encompassing, like you're you're producing the record,

156
00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,360
Speaker 1: you're the guy, your vocal everything has got to go

157
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,200
Speaker 1: through your lens with the help of you know, the artist,

158
00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,880
Speaker 1: but your name on it. But when you mean they're

159
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,800
Speaker 1: overthinking in what way do a lot of artists overthink

160
00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,960
Speaker 1: their their music? Well, it's different for everybody. I think that. Um.

161
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,000
Speaker 1: For someone since we were talking about Keith, for someone

162
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,840
Speaker 1: like Keith like he has a real, really clear idea

163
00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:42,360
Speaker 1: of what his next step is artistically, what his next

164
00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,760
Speaker 1: what the next paragraph is in the conversation with his fans. Um,

165
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,080
Speaker 1: all of our big artists in country music they are

166
00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,480
Speaker 1: having we don't realize it because we're all fans. I'm

167
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 1: a country music fan, I'm a pop music fan. I

168
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,280
Speaker 1: love all music. But one thing that country music artists

169
00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,520
Speaker 1: are doing, whether the fans really as it or not,

170
00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,840
Speaker 1: is they're having a conversation with you. They're telling you

171
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,440
Speaker 1: stories that they want to get a reaction from you.

172
00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,000
Speaker 1: Whether it's you know, something that we're kind of used

173
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,360
Speaker 1: to about being on a back road, or whether it's like,

174
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,800
Speaker 1: you know, something like where Kane Brown's move where he

175
00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,880
Speaker 1: kind of did that song about love and everybody coming

176
00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,240
Speaker 1: together and it's like whatever, you know, Miranda might be

177
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,000
Speaker 1: killing a guy. You know, it's like we're it's basically

178
00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,360
Speaker 1: we're being told stories by storytellers, and any great story

179
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,600
Speaker 1: doesn't just say the same thing over and over. There's

180
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,840
Speaker 1: like an arc to it. So depending on where someone

181
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,440
Speaker 1: is in their career, depending on where they are in

182
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,959
Speaker 1: their relationship with their fans, is where they're going to

183
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,200
Speaker 1: be in that story. And you know, if when you

184
00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,360
Speaker 1: think back to great artists like Cash and Haggard and

185
00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,400
Speaker 1: you know McIntyre, McBride, I mean, Hill, whatever it is,

186
00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,840
Speaker 1: it's like you when you look back on an artist

187
00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:56,640
Speaker 1: career after they've been doing it for a couple of decades,

188
00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,800
Speaker 1: you feel like you really have been on a journey

189
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,120
Speaker 1: with them. If you're a die and you're buying every record,

190
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,679
Speaker 1: listen to every song, and that's what I feel like,

191
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,360
Speaker 1: Um what I mean by over obsessed and the music

192
00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,320
Speaker 1: part of that is kind of subordinate to the story.

193
00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,520
Speaker 1: In country music and pop music, it's like, you know whatever,

194
00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,680
Speaker 1: the storytelling is almost in the musical sides. Like remember

195
00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,840
Speaker 1: when Bieber put the song out the where Are You Now?

196
00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,640
Speaker 1: Had that weird whistle sound in it, and everyone's like,

197
00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:25,920
Speaker 1: whoa what is that? You know? That was kind of

198
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,840
Speaker 1: his way of talking his fans, is like, Hey, this

199
00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,320
Speaker 1: is where we're going now musically, We're doing this, Now,

200
00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,600
Speaker 1: we're doing that, then we're gonna do Was that song

201
00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,160
Speaker 1: Lonely he had? It was like yeah. So it's like

202
00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,080
Speaker 1: I feel like in pop it's like it's it's a

203
00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,160
Speaker 1: similar journey with an artist, but it's a lot more

204
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,280
Speaker 1: about the musicality of things and where we're going sound wise,

205
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,559
Speaker 1: and what are we partying or are we crying? Or

206
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,079
Speaker 1: With country music, it's like where are we in our

207
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,000
Speaker 1: lives right now? Like where are we going through? What

208
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,120
Speaker 1: are we hurting about? What are we happy about? What

209
00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 1: are we feeling? Where? What when we blow off steam?

210
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:56,800
Speaker 1: How do we want to do that, or we had

211
00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,360
Speaker 1: a bonfire, or we had a club. You know, there's

212
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,600
Speaker 1: all those things. And I feel like I feel like

213
00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,480
Speaker 1: the best records that I've made have been with artists

214
00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,400
Speaker 1: who have a really clear idea of what's next, what

215
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,600
Speaker 1: they're trying to say, and who they're trying to be

216
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,120
Speaker 1: and where they are with their fans. So um. So

217
00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,480
Speaker 1: Like with Keith, it's like he had a really clear

218
00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,199
Speaker 1: vision of what that Fuse album was supposed to be,

219
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,559
Speaker 1: and in his perfect world, no other album does that.

220
00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,679
Speaker 1: That album did that, and the next album does this,

221
00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,319
Speaker 1: and um. Someone like when I was meeting with Tom

222
00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,920
Speaker 1: Betchy with that new band Homegrown that I'm gonna work with.

223
00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,200
Speaker 1: I love those guys, and Tom's a great manager. Autumn

224
00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,880
Speaker 1: House is working with that too with that project too. Um,

225
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:41,800
Speaker 1: they're at the beginning of the story. How do you

226
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,000
Speaker 1: start the story? You know? I think that's one thing

227
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,600
Speaker 1: about country music that I don't want to get lost.

228
00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:51,400
Speaker 1: The more we um kind of do business like l

229
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,240
Speaker 1: A and like pop, It's like, I don't want to

230
00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,560
Speaker 1: lose the story. That's my biggest thing. And I feel

231
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,840
Speaker 1: like the great artists, the people we really look up

232
00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,240
Speaker 1: to and country music. They they have that so extremely

233
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,160
Speaker 1: a macro is what I'm hearing, because you're like, story

234
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 1: whide are we gonna We're gonna then figure out everything

235
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,120
Speaker 1: that goes inside of the bucket that you've you've now

236
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,079
Speaker 1: told me we need to fill. And so if it's

237
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,640
Speaker 1: a new artist, are you there's a lot of songs?

238
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,760
Speaker 1: Are you then picking and cutting songs based on not

239
00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,080
Speaker 1: how good they are, but if it's a tie, okay,

240
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,200
Speaker 1: which one better defines where you are right now? And

241
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,840
Speaker 1: making this project? Like all the decisions even sounds inside sonically,

242
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,640
Speaker 1: all those decisions are kind of based on I'm assuming

243
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,160
Speaker 1: some communication you've had before, like where are you? And

244
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,760
Speaker 1: now we're gonna make sure everything we put in this

245
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,640
Speaker 1: bucket is exactly on brand with that well, and what's

246
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,360
Speaker 1: fun about a new artist is that there may not

247
00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,600
Speaker 1: be a bucket, and the bucket kind of forms around

248
00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,640
Speaker 1: the water, so to speak. You know, it's like sometimes

249
00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,440
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, what's gonna work? Like they have to

250
00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,960
Speaker 1: get on the map, you know, So what what of

251
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,240
Speaker 1: all the songs you've written in the last year, which

252
00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,520
Speaker 1: ones do we feel like might move the needle? It

253
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,120
Speaker 1: used to be a radio conversation, and now it's both

254
00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,240
Speaker 1: the radio and streaming conversation and Exam and of like

255
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,840
Speaker 1: what's gonna work, what what's going to connect? Is it

256
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:05,719
Speaker 1: going to be a streaming hit and or is it

257
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,160
Speaker 1: going to be a radio hit or is it going

258
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,960
Speaker 1: to be something that Exam will play or is it

259
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,600
Speaker 1: just something that will work great live. It's like you

260
00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,000
Speaker 1: just gotta move that needle first and almost like figure

261
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,000
Speaker 1: it out after that. And a lot of times a

262
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:20,800
Speaker 1: brand new artist, they don't have fans, so they don't

263
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,040
Speaker 1: have a conversation yet, so they don't know what they're

264
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:24,360
Speaker 1: supposed to say. I don't know who the people are

265
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,000
Speaker 1: who are really going to be drawn to them, what

266
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,000
Speaker 1: age group they're going to be, and all that. We'll

267
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,240
Speaker 1: stick with Keith for a second. That's um we're talking

268
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,400
Speaker 1: about him, knowing him a little bit, not only personally,

269
00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,320
Speaker 1: but you know, I've been to his studio in his

270
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,560
Speaker 1: house and I've seen him and he's all over the place,

271
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,400
Speaker 1: just as what I see if it's just him and I.

272
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,000
Speaker 1: He's moving, he's turning things up, and he's like, well

273
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,040
Speaker 1: just watch this point at this go here, oh my,

274
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,280
Speaker 1: And you're like Why is he like that to work

275
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,199
Speaker 1: with two where he's got so much energy and he's

276
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,360
Speaker 1: doing nine things at once, and he's got visions that

277
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,520
Speaker 1: he's explaining, but it's almost you can't understand his vision

278
00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,640
Speaker 1: because it's a vision? Is that what working with Keith is? Like? Yeah,

279
00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,320
Speaker 1: it's awesome. I mean he's he's Definitely Before I worked

280
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,280
Speaker 1: with him, I was like a bucket list artist for sure. Um.

281
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,120
Speaker 1: And the first song we ever did was the song

282
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,200
Speaker 1: with Miranda We were uss that was the song. It

283
00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,600
Speaker 1: was John Knight, Jimmy Robbins, and Nicole Galleon's all their

284
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,120
Speaker 1: first number one And that was the first song I

285
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,280
Speaker 1: did with Keith, And um, it was a funny story.

286
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,640
Speaker 1: We were making that song and he didn't have Miranda's

287
00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,680
Speaker 1: vocal on obviously because we were just building the track,

288
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,720
Speaker 1: and um, he said, uh, I really wish we had

289
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,040
Speaker 1: a female vocal on here at just a placeholder, just

290
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,199
Speaker 1: to kind of get us through the production while we're

291
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,400
Speaker 1: building the track. And I was like, well, my wife's

292
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,960
Speaker 1: upstairs and she's a great singer. And he's like, oh,

293
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,360
Speaker 1: go get her, And so I went upstairs and my

294
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,920
Speaker 1: wife was like seven months pregnant, she had adult braces,

295
00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,520
Speaker 1: and she was finishing a Chick fil A sandwich and

296
00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,439
Speaker 1: she had crumbs on her belly, you know, from her

297
00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,599
Speaker 1: belly sticking out. And I was like, hey, baby, Keith's downstairs.

298
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,960
Speaker 1: He wants you to come sing on this track. And

299
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,960
Speaker 1: she was like, what do you hate me? I said,

300
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,480
Speaker 1: come on, just come down here, it'll be fun. She

301
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,640
Speaker 1: had a great time. She and Keith hit it off.

302
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,920
Speaker 1: They like had a great like rapport and everything, and

303
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,520
Speaker 1: and she, you know, she like, you know, got a

304
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,520
Speaker 1: little bit dulled up before she came downstairs because she

305
00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,520
Speaker 1: wanted to put it do a good impression. And so

306
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:21,120
Speaker 1: like three days later, out of nowhere, she goes, didn't

307
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,840
Speaker 1: Keith have the best stense smelling cologne? Oh? Always everybody

308
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:25,720
Speaker 1: says that about Keith. Yeah, And I'm like, are you

309
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,000
Speaker 1: thinking about here? And three days later, out of nowhere,

310
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,640
Speaker 1: you bring this up and she was like, yeah, he

311
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,360
Speaker 1: did smell really good. And I was like, ah, did

312
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,360
Speaker 1: did you get to keep? Do you have that just

313
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 1: to keep for your own personal Yeah, it's only the

314
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,880
Speaker 1: hard drive. Yeah that's pretty cool. Yeah, she has you know,

315
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 1: a work tape or a demo or whatever whatever stage

316
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,120
Speaker 1: you wear Um of her recording and Keith Urban Song

317
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,920
Speaker 1: and she's a great songwriter and singer. She um, she

318
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,400
Speaker 1: kind of took herself out of the game for us

319
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,400
Speaker 1: to have kids and stuff. But um, when she was

320
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,520
Speaker 1: in the game, she was. She had like a Bonnie

321
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,600
Speaker 1: Rate sing goal with that Bonnie did with Nora Jones

322
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,800
Speaker 1: as a duet, and then she had a couple of

323
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 1: songs on the Chief record with Eric and her Carolina

324
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,200
Speaker 1: record came um that Eric still plays live. That they

325
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,840
Speaker 1: did a half hour at the Opera together just Eric

326
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 1: and Steph on stage. She she opened from Merle Haggard

327
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,240
Speaker 1: at the Rhyme in one time. Um, she had a

328
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,480
Speaker 1: bunch of other cuts and remember the band Gypsy. Yeah,

329
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,720
Speaker 1: she had a song that they recorded of hers that

330
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,120
Speaker 1: was really good. Just random things, but she was definitely

331
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,560
Speaker 1: like she was the reason I got to work with

332
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,240
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift. So she she was writing songs at Jody Williams.

333
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,520
Speaker 1: So that's what white year was that And I want

334
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:42,560
Speaker 1: to touch on this, but then I want to go

335
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,960
Speaker 1: back in your life. But what year was it? Where

336
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,800
Speaker 1: are you and Taylor first met? I think it was

337
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,840
Speaker 1: two thousand six, maybe she thousand seven, shou'd have been

338
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,320
Speaker 1: held fourteen or fifteen. I have a friend that's a

339
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,240
Speaker 1: songwriters shotten you know quite a few. I don't think

340
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:57,920
Speaker 1: he even care if I told the story. I won't

341
00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,600
Speaker 1: say who he is in case he does care. Yeah,

342
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 1: And they came to him to write for her, and

343
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,640
Speaker 1: he was like, I'm not riming a fourteen year old girl.

344
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:07,760
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm an adult man. I don't know what

345
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 1: to write for a fourth I've heard that story from

346
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,520
Speaker 1: several writers. So he was like, it was nothing against

347
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,160
Speaker 1: her personally, but I was a man in my thirties.

348
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what to write. So I said no.

349
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,440
Speaker 1: And so now he's like, I'm an idiot. He was like,

350
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,320
Speaker 1: I'm the bad No. I mean, look, it's like poker,

351
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,760
Speaker 1: like you get you get dealta to three off suit,

352
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,280
Speaker 1: you fold and then the flops to two two three.

353
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,120
Speaker 1: Well you how would you know? I make a decision

354
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,360
Speaker 1: as best you can in the moment. And he was like, statistically,

355
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,160
Speaker 1: he was right. Most fourteen year old, fifteen year old

356
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 1: people who come to Nashville and make records, they either

357
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,680
Speaker 1: work or barely, or they don't work. You know, Taylor

358
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,240
Speaker 1: was definitely an exception. So mathematically you gotta say, like

359
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,560
Speaker 1: he did, he made the call that he thought he

360
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,760
Speaker 1: should make, and yeah, I still messed up. But what's

361
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,760
Speaker 1: what's the red what's the red drink over there? Oh

362
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 1: it's like crystal lighters. Oh yeah, have a drink. There

363
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,560
Speaker 1: was a funny was it Burt perishn or is that

364
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,760
Speaker 1: how you say? And Tom Sigura where they had that

365
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,880
Speaker 1: huge laughing fest over the cool aid in his water cup.

366
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,360
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys saw that. So we've

367
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,080
Speaker 1: had a couple of guys on recently which we haven't

368
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,480
Speaker 1: had m a whole lot of this. But they grew

369
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 1: up here in Nashville, and for for people to grow

370
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,760
Speaker 1: up here, they are either in music and they're never

371
00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,960
Speaker 1: getting out of it, or they hate music, and then

372
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,120
Speaker 1: they finally decide later on they they're like, oh, yeah,

373
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,240
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have got out of it. So what was

374
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 1: it for you? It was I grew up on my

375
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 1: um my mom and dad are Christian singers and they're

376
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,000
Speaker 1: on the end of their career now there about to

377
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,920
Speaker 1: fully retire. They try to retire. Um they were they

378
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,240
Speaker 1: moved here in the seventies and my dad had a

379
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,840
Speaker 1: band and they were signed to Pat Boone's record label.

380
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 1: And I grew up on the road. My dad told

381
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,199
Speaker 1: me when I was potty trained, I could go and

382
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 1: tour with him. He'd go out for thirty days at

383
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,320
Speaker 1: a time and an RV. It was a Christian rock

384
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,520
Speaker 1: band before Christian rock even really exists, before Stryper, Yes,

385
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 1: um and uh. The genre c CM is named after

386
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,840
Speaker 1: a magazine called Contemporary Christian Music. C c M was

387
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:12,560
Speaker 1: the name of the magazine and that's how they named

388
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,480
Speaker 1: the genre. And my dad's bands in the very first

389
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,879
Speaker 1: issue of that magazine. And he's got a copy of

390
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,800
Speaker 1: his house. What is your earliest memory of your parents

391
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,480
Speaker 1: doing music? Well, they did music that was geared towards

392
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,679
Speaker 1: family ministry. It was like Christian music, like sermons with

393
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,119
Speaker 1: songs and sprinkled in and they would do like marriage

394
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,159
Speaker 1: conferences and things about raising kids. And they had a

395
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,800
Speaker 1: song called Daddy, Please find a Reason that was about

396
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 1: a dad, a guy who wants to leave his family

397
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,159
Speaker 1: and he can't think of a reason to stay. And

398
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,600
Speaker 1: then the chorus is its little kid saying, well, Daddy,

399
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:48,880
Speaker 1: can that that reason can be me? If you want

400
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,520
Speaker 1: to stay here, you know, stay for me. So I

401
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,359
Speaker 1: was the three I was three years old when I

402
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,119
Speaker 1: sang the chorus to that song. Do you remember being three?

403
00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,320
Speaker 1: Just in general, being three? Having a memories crazy to

404
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,919
Speaker 1: me kind of. I mean, it's just I think I

405
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,680
Speaker 1: remember more because I've created the version of the story

406
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 1: that my parents have told me. You know, But I

407
00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,480
Speaker 1: remember being in the studio. Studio has always smelled like um,

408
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,919
Speaker 1: glue and coffee and cedar would. Studios don't smell like

409
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 1: that anymore, but obviously when where the coffee smell came from.

410
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,280
Speaker 1: The glue came from the tape. If you smell a

411
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 1: real tape, it's kind of like smelling black powder and

412
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 1: a shotgun shell after you shoot a shot. You know,

413
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 1: it's like a really distinctive smell that you'll remember, or

414
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,440
Speaker 1: a cigarette smoke in the air when you're a kid

415
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 1: at the you know, the fair grounds or something. But

416
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,200
Speaker 1: the smell of glue and then they were all built

417
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 1: out of cedar would there was like a I don't

418
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,439
Speaker 1: know why, but I remember I remember the smell of

419
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 1: studios back then. It was really kind of intoxicating. You

420
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,639
Speaker 1: knew you you could close your eyes. I know you

421
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,480
Speaker 1: were in a studio back then, did you as a

422
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,960
Speaker 1: seven or eight year old when you do probably have

423
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 1: memories that the mind started around five or six, did

424
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 1: you always know like, man, I'm just gonna do music

425
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 1: like them. I'm gonna do it because of them. I'm like,

426
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 1: why did you want to do music? Well? I I

427
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 1: loved the process of the making the records. I remember

428
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 1: being in the studio and watching the producers talk to

429
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 1: my dad and my dad getting mad about stuff later,

430
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:20,119
Speaker 1: like he'd he'd be upset about a snare drum sound

431
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,200
Speaker 1: or something. Um. My parents were signed to a star

432
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 1: Starm star Stong Records in the eighties and eighties seven

433
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 1: they left and went independence, and my dad paid for

434
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 1: the record out of his own pocket and then they

435
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 1: would print him and they printed him over in Silver

436
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 1: Sylvan Park area, a little factory that's where they got

437
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 1: and I'd go with him to pick them up and

438
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 1: they it was very like, it was very proud, it

439
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,920
Speaker 1: was like practical and very like hands on. It was

440
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 1: like I'm paying money for this record, I'm printing it

441
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna take it out and sell it

442
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:52,959
Speaker 1: to people. So from a very early age, like I

443
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,959
Speaker 1: really understood what it was to be an artist who

444
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 1: was trying to make it, and my mom and dad

445
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 1: struggled till I was out seven, and then they had

446
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,640
Speaker 1: a kind of a big break and did really well

447
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 1: after that. Uh, in their in their world there they

448
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 1: want a double ward and they did really well for

449
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 1: what they wanted their goal. They met all their goals.

450
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 1: It's pretty cool you saw them hustle though. Yeah, that's

451
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 1: a cool thing to remember, to actually see your parents hustle,

452
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 1: but to see it pay off. Yeah, like those together,

453
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 1: that's a package almost can't pay for, like a big

454
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: learning lesson what was the big you say a big break?

455
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 1: Was it a song? Was it? There was a there's

456
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 1: an organization called Focus on the Family, and they did

457
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 1: a film series where they filmed two or three days

458
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 1: of a conference and then they sent that film to

459
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: all the churches in America and they had like a

460
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: set in that so when every church in America watched

461
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: my parents singing, the head of the organization kind of

462
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: hand picked them to be the musical guest, even though

463
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 1: they were really small time. He liked because they were

464
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: a family ministry organization. My parents have doing family ministry music.

465
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,360
Speaker 1: It just fit when I was growing up. I saw

466
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,719
Speaker 1: a lot of hypocrisy from other artists. My parents actually

467
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,719
Speaker 1: walked what they talked. They still do. I'm grateful for that.

468
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: But I saw a lot of hypocrisy out there within

469
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: the Christian music world, and I think that I got

470
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: what I remember. I kind of when I was a teenager,

471
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, I don't want to do

472
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 1: Christian music for a ministry, because if I'm going to

473
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 1: do music, I want to do it for the money.

474
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: That's what I've told myself when I was a kid,

475
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: you know, like seventeen eighteen. I was like, I like,

476
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 1: I know how this works, I know how studios work,

477
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 1: I know what it is to make a record, and

478
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: I know I can make money doing it. But I

479
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: didn't want to be a hypocrite and out of a

480
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: feeling of guilt be a Christian artist or a Christian

481
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: writer out of just an obligation to my faith. So

482
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: I made a conscious decision to just kind of say,

483
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 1: I'll minister and I'll have my faith and I'll express

484
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: that and I'll be a I'll be a you know,

485
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 1: in God's work in a different way besides the actual

486
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: music that I make. But I mean, I do have

487
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: some like lines in the Sand, I won't cross as

488
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 1: far as like, you know, certain content or could you

489
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: listen to secular music? I was allowed to. Yeah, yeah?

490
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 1: And what what did you choose at those formative twelve thirteen,

491
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,360
Speaker 1: fourteen years. I was obsessed with Sting and Pink Floyd

492
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: and Seal. Did your parents have conversations with you? Because

493
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 1: I find it so interesting that they were like, we're

494
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: Christian artists, we're Christians, and we're going to allow you

495
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: to listen to music that is not what we're involved in.

496
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 1: And also maybe this music doesn't have the same value

497
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: as you're taught. But do they do they talk to

498
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: you about that? There there was a worship component in

499
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: the actual music. Like I think my my dad he

500
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 1: was a big time into Vangelis, the guy who did

501
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: the Chariots of Fire theme. There's a lot of different

502
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,640
Speaker 1: He's kind of like a Hans Zimmer of his time.

503
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: My dad loved that stuff. You love Beth Neilson Chapman songs.

504
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: He loved Vern gosden Um. He would always play me

505
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 1: a Madman Across the Water Belton John and he really

506
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: found worshiping the just the music. It's like the words

507
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 1: were kind of just like whatever to him for that

508
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: for the secular music. So it's like, while at the

509
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: same time they were making music, it was very like

510
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: teaching and ministry and and scripture based for him, Like

511
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: listening to Gordon Lightfoot wasn't like a sin because it's

512
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: just great. It's an excellent work. It's like an excellent

513
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: version of that craft of being a singer songwriter. My

514
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 1: dad appreciated that, and he found the worship part of that.

515
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: So I feel like sometimes there's moments when I listened

516
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: back to something I did and I feel like, no,

517
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna tell anybody, but I was kind of

518
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 1: worshiping when I was even just playing guitar or like

519
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: doing that different chord change that makes me feel something,

520
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: you know, It's like to me that stuff can be

521
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: kind of a worship experience. When did you pick up

522
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 1: an instrument? Um? I was three when I started playing drums,

523
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: seven started piano, and ten I started guitar. When you're

524
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: three and a drums, are you just hitting stuff or

525
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 1: do you actually at three? Can you? Yeah? Yeah, I

526
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: can play three, So that's gotta be your dad would

527
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: have to show that off. He was like Hey, guys,

528
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: come here. What's this right? I mean, you have to

529
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: beat the three year old that's being celebrated. This is

530
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: a theory working theory. If you're three and you're doing

531
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: something pretty good and people are saying, look at this kid,

532
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: and you're being rewarded for the pretty good, it then

533
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: makes you want to be rewarded more. It's like if

534
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: I go on stage and I tell a joke, it's

535
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: pretty funny. I first time this war works. I should

536
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 1: learn more jokes. I'm so I would imagine that that early,

537
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: Hey you're really good at this kid, we celebrate you.

538
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: Probably inspired you to continue learning. Oh yeah, yeah, for sure.

539
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 1: I remember I picked out the Chariots of Fire theme

540
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: when piano from here, and I remember like my mom

541
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: and dad and their friends, and everybody's like, whoa, I

542
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: can't believe you did that. And I'm thinking, like, well,

543
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: the notes are right there. You know, it's not that

544
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: big a deal to me, but um, I think the

545
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 1: encouraging those little wins like that is is huge. And

546
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: my six year old, he was five things like last

547
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: summer he got a drum kit, and um, he would

548
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: pull his arm into his shirt to give himself only

549
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: one arm and then play pour some Sugar on Me, helay,

550
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 1: but only with one arm, because that's what was on YouTube,

551
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, watching the Deaf Lepard drum but he didn't

552
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: have but he has feat pads right well. But my kid,

553
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: he's just like and he had long hair at the

554
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: time he was he was he's such a cool kid.

555
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: You know how some people are just cool, Like you're cool? No,

556
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 1: you are. Now that I have a cool kid, I

557
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: always wondered how do people get to be cool? Right,

558
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: I'm not cool and I and if anyone argues with me,

559
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 1: they're just trying to make me feel better. I'm not

560
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: a cool guy. My six year old is a cool kid.

561
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: And he would play deaf Leopard and and then I

562
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: have a singing pour some Sugar on me and playing

563
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: guitar and he's like, no, Dad, not like that. You

564
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 1: need to go. And he's like producing my vocal, you know,

565
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: And I'm like, it's just in his blood. He's just

566
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: the cool kid. So he he's playing drums. It's just cool.

567
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 1: But um, do you see this is so interesting because

568
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: I wonder if your dad saw that in you that

569
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 1: you're now seeing in him. Do you see you and

570
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: him musically. Yeah, I mean if I if you think

571
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: bank to you have five or six and it's a

572
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: difficult thing to do. Do you see you there? I

573
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: feel like, well, I know that my six year old

574
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: looks like me. My parents say it's like the Twilight Zone.

575
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: Watching him, it's like having me as a kid again. Um.

576
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: I feel like that there is definitely you either kind

577
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: of have that gifting of music or you don't. And

578
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: if you don't, you can learn it. It's not like

579
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,239
Speaker 1: you can't learn it, but there's definitely kind of like

580
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: it can be a gifting. I think my eight year

581
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: old has that with math, Like he'll do really hard

582
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: math problems and he's like, I don't know how I

583
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: figured that out, but I just know it. Um my

584
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: ten year old daughter, she can she kind of has

585
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: like a novelist thing. She can just write stories that

586
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: are actually like really good. Um. None of my kids

587
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: are showing like a really uh you know, like gifting

588
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: in sports, you know, they're all kind of like at

589
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: the moment and you never know until they grow up.

590
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: But right now I'm not seeing like, oh, he's going

591
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: to be a huge athlete. But I think that I

592
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: can see how my parents probably looked at me and

593
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: they were like, oh, he's got whatever that musical thing

594
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: is that part of the brain just that responds to

595
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: or learns. I think it just makes so much sense

596
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: to me. Like that's the thing about I don't think.

597
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: I don't think you can build a career on a

598
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: natural talent in any you know, avenue of life. But

599
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: you can definitely if it just makes sense to you,

600
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: you know, Like that's the thing. There's a lot of

601
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: things about life that do do not make sense to me,

602
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: and I can try and learn them, but I will

603
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: never be as good as someone who just instinctively kind

604
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: of has like and the advantage over me. That's interesting.

605
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: I struggle with music, and I play, and I play

606
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: as part of my comedy act, and but I struggle

607
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: with understand ending it right. But but my you know

608
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: buddy who plays with me, who understands it really well,

609
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: he can't read something and just remember it for the

610
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: rest of his life. Where I can. I can read.

611
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: I can recall things that I've ever only read once,

612
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: or I can remember going, Okay, I know I've read that, Well,

613
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: what do I think? And it's there, But it's just

614
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: our brains working and respond to different things and such

615
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: creatively in such different ways. So it's fascinating to me

616
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: when I see parents and then kids who naturally have it,

617
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: because I don't know, did your parents learn it or

618
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: did they have it? And if can you learn it

619
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: and then pass it down where it's natural. I think

620
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: you can, because I think that there's definitely a big

621
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: advantage to being around something when you're a kid, you know.

622
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: But I mean, like you're let's say your parents. Let's

623
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: say they didn't know anything about music, and we obviously

624
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: I'm not going to the answer this. We're just gonna

625
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: be dumb guys and talk about this for a second,

626
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: like we have an idea what's happened in the world.

627
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: But let's say your parents they music did not come

628
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: easy to them, and but they studied hard. They maximize

629
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: their potential and they're pretty good at what they do.

630
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: But they figured out how to do it, had a

631
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: huge career them learning that, and then they have you,

632
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: and to you it naturally comes. I wonder if the

633
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: generation above can learn it and then present it naturally

634
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: through genetically. I think if I'm taking a wild guest

635
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: from and that's what we're doing totally by the way

636
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: anyone wants. I'm sure there's like pediatric like pediatricians who

637
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: are psychologists who could answer this for for real, but

638
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: I would guess. I would guess yes, because I think

639
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: if my dad had been really into finance, just I

640
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: think there's an osmosis to hearing your parents have conversations.

641
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: You know. Um, if my dad was like big and like,

642
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: if he was a day trader, I probably would understand

643
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: what you know, options are. Like I just was on

644
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: the phone this morning with my friend who was trading

645
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: options and calls and puts and all this stuff, and

646
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: I told him. I was like, I don't understand, and

647
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: he's like what And I was like, I just don't understand.

648
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: And he's like, well, you're you know, you're buying and

649
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: selling the difference between two prices, And I'm like, I

650
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: really so. I think if you if you grew up

651
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: around like think about like, you know, guys that are

652
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: professional athletes, you know, they're all they talk about with

653
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: their friends, you know. I think my kids here are

654
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,239
Speaker 1: genetically you can't be a professional athlete unless you are

655
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: somewhat genetically blessed. Absolutely, But unless you're a bowler, anybody,

656
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: I gotta anybody to learn to bowl, but other than

657
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: a bowler, but I have a I'm One of my

658
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: good friends is Steve Hutchinson, who's a Hall of Fame

659
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: linebacker or offensive lineman. And he obviously genetically, I mean,

660
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: it's like he's a different species than me. Like he's

661
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: so big and and imposing as a human. But you

662
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: talk to the guy, he is brilliant, and he he

663
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: makes you think that football is more of a strategy

664
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: game than a like the physicality is almost like it.

665
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: You either have that or you don't. But the difference

666
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: between a professional and a not professional would be the

667
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: brain side of that. You said it too, You don't

668
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: think anyone can succeed on talent alone, and I agree

669
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: with that. My most talented friends are often the ones

670
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: that were so talented they didn't have to learn how

671
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: to do it, or have to develop a drive, or

672
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: or or have an instinct. They had to sharpen because

673
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: it was so easy to them that when it got

674
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: to the point to where it was time to go

675
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: next level, it wasn't easy to them anymore. So they

676
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: weren't comfortable with having to grow into that where I

677
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: had no talent whatsoever, which is why I'm here. We are.

678
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: I've been crafting and cutting the whole time. You know,

679
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: you're a great communicator though, I mean, and asked my wife, well,

680
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: I mean you are when you're at your job professionally,

681
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: I think I'm a plus. I mean, I've listened to

682
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: your stuff and it's it's it's it's really inspiring and

683
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: interesting the whole time. I mean you, you and John

684
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: Mayer had a great banter back and forth where I

685
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: was like, Wow, these these guys are really good at talking,

686
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: like and and Bobby is so good at and John

687
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: even complimented you in the interview. I don't know if

688
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: remember that. He's like I do, Yeah, I think about

689
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: everybody got a bet everymore. I'm like all right. It

690
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: was like he was like, wow, you're really good at

691
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: asking questions, and like, I think that that's but see,

692
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: I think that the musical ability that someone has is

693
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: almost like being a really big guy and wanting to

694
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: play football. It's like, okay, you're you know, you're really tall.

695
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: You want to be a professional basketball player, Well you're

696
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: ten percent of the way there. Now you need that

697
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: you probably need that in order to do it at

698
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: a really high level, you need that extra ten percent.

699
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: But it's only you know, it's only a little bit.

700
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: And I think mine came from just being around the business,

701
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: being around music watching. I mean, when you're three years

702
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: old and you're in the studio with an engineer and

703
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: a producer, I mean, there's it's got to have an

704
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: effect on you. A lot of accidental learning. Yeah, you said, Osmosis.

705
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: I mean you're you're picking up all this stuff. You

706
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: don't evenalize you're learning. It's just the culture. Yeah, I

707
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: mean I think my dad always called me a Nascar kid.

708
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: He's like, you're like a Nascar kid because you know,

709
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: because those sons, always the juniors, always grew up and

710
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: become NASCAR drivers. And he's like, you just were around this.

711
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: That's what he That's how he explained it to me.

712
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: They were trying to talk you out of it, like, hey,

713
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: maybe you try to be a lawyer, Maybe you try

714
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: ever or they ever, Like, no, they're very I'm very lucky.

715
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: Uh sportive. Did you believe Nashville? I did. I went

716
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: to college. That's where I met my wife, and I

717
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: quit the family band to go to college. And my

718
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: sister cried, like she wept for a day. She's like,

719
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: you're breaking up the family. I told my parents. I

720
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: was like, I can't, I can't. I can't be in

721
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: the family band anymore. I gotta go be my own guy.

722
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: And I actually quit music. I gave up music to

723
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: go to college. I had had all kinds of music here.

724
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: I gave it all to my neighbor. I just went

725
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: to college with like a guitar. And where did you

726
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: go to school? Lee University in Cleveland, Tennessee. Okay, so

727
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: you stayed somewhat close, but you did leave Nashville and

728
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: and you go with just a guitar. So that was

729
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: just for me. I was going to be an English professor.

730
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to do. That was your rebellion.

731
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: You know, some kids I do some crazy stuff. Yours

732
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: was the ultimate rebellion, was to be an English press.

733
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: I like it. I'm here for it. Do because your

734
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: parents have history in Christian music, and I mean, you

735
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: have a double ward yourself. Right. Do people think that

736
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: you and Steven Kartis Chapman are brothers? Uh? They think

737
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: we're family at some point. A lot of times people

738
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,959
Speaker 1: get confused with that actually or whatever because he's older

739
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: than you. Obviously, Well, Steven Curtis Chapman would be known

740
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: as Steve Chapman if it wasn't from my mom and dad,

741
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: because he so, my dad is Steve Chapman, my mom

742
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: is Annie Chapman, and and uh by the mid eighties

743
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: they were pretty big deal. They hadn't had their big

744
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: break yet, but they were definitely had record deal and

745
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: they were on the radio and stuff and um. And

746
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: then Steve Steven Curtis Chapman got a record deal and

747
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 1: he everyone called him Steve Chapman. And they were like, dude,

748
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: you gotta figure out your name. You can't. There's already

749
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,479
Speaker 1: a Steve Chapman because my dad was the lead singer

750
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: of his band, and then he was a duel with

751
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: my mom, and uh so he's like, well, how I

752
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: don't know how you know, what do I do to

753
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: differentiate myself? So they just went with his full equal name.

754
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: Whenever you're you, did you graduated, h lee? Yeah? Okay,

755
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: you finish? Did you not want to be a professor anymore?

756
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 1: Did you try it for a little bit? So I

757
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: was in college and I wanted to get I went

758
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: a little bit late, so I wanted to get done quick,

759
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: so I went on a summer class, a summer course

760
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 1: to get my language credit knocked out. Went to Normandy,

761
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: France with my college group to do a six week

762
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: crash course in French and get eight hours of credit

763
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: so I could graduate early. And my wife is from Virginia,

764
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: from the DC area, and she majored in French and

765
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 1: English at j m U. And she was working at

766
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: the little bed and Breakfast in in Normandy for for

767
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: a summer job to go over as with her French skills. Yes,

768
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 1: we met in France, in a little town called Franceville

769
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: in Normandy. Okay, that's funny. It's also just funny you'd

770
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 1: meet another American in France while you're studying. Yeah, I didn't.

771
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: I mean they were they had, like, uh, a couple

772
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: of American kids who were just there for a summer job,

773
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: like a cool summer job. Do you guys hit it

774
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: off immediately? Yeah. And the way we met because they

775
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: told me they said there will be a guitar there

776
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: someone They said, someone on the staff has a guitar,

777
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: and that was my wife. And she's a songwriter and

778
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: singer and she one of the first nights we hung out,

779
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: we just played each other songs we had written, but

780
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: not in a like oh, you're so good. It was

781
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: like a competition. She was like, oh, you think that

782
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: song is good? While I wrote this one and it

783
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: was obviously she was better than me. She's really good

784
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: and um so we met and then we moved back

785
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: to and and she said, I've always dreamed of going

786
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: to Nashville, and I said, well, I know how that works,

787
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: you know, And but I didn't have any plans to

788
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: do music. But then when she said I've always wanted

789
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: to be a singer songwriter Nashville and um so, I said, well,

790
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: you know, I know how that works. So we I

791
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,399
Speaker 1: started making um like demos for her songs, and that's

792
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: how she ended up getting signed to Jody Williams Music.

793
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: And she started co writing with Liz Rose. And Liz

794
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: heard my demos that I was making for stuff. I

795
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: was building all the tracks, playing everything. Liz heard my

796
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 1: Stephanie demos and said, well, will you do demos for

797
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: me too? I was like sure, So then she started.

798
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: Liz started writing with Taylor and Liz asked, Taylor, can

799
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: my demo, got demo. These songs were writing and they

800
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: were like our song and Picture to Burn and Tim McGraw.

801
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: So I was doing all the demos for Liz and

802
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,439
Speaker 1: Taylor as they were writing, and uh so, yeah, that's

803
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: I quit, you know, I quit, stormed out of the

804
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 1: musical world and didn't want to go back and to

805
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 1: impress the girl. I got back into it. So Liz

806
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: who I love and and no, Liz, she'said produced these demos.

807
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: But how produced were the demos? Were they you know,

808
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: you got instruments, drums or was it, you know, just

809
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: Taylor a vocal? I don't like what was the what

810
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: was the early Taylor demos? Like they sound like the

811
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: first record? Did did a lot of them turned into

812
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 1: the record? Uh? Tied Together with a Smile is just

813
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: the demo upgraded. It's one of the tracks on that

814
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: first album. And uh, but we we went in and

815
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: recut a lot of that stuff. Because I didn't have

816
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: a budget. I was just playing everything myself. You know,

817
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: demos are still kind of cheap. You try to make

818
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: as cheap as you can. But then when I remember

819
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: when um Scott and Taylor called me on speaker phone

820
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: and said Hey, you know, we want you to go

821
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: in and track some songs. It was basically an audition.

822
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: Scott was like this guy, the demo guy, because Taylor,

823
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: she had been in the studio with a couple of

824
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 1: different people, and she just felt like that the demos

825
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: we were making really captured what she wanted. And I

826
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 1: was twenty eight, she was fourteen or fifteen, and neither

827
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: one of us had a clue what we were doing.

828
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 1: We're just making music. I certainly didn't have any clue

829
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 1: what was going on. I was just making songs. Why

830
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: do you think she was drawn to what you two

831
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: were doing versus what she had experienced so far. Well,

832
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: I'm mean I was playing all the instruments I had.

833
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: There was a couple of times I would bring in

834
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: bass and drums from rhythm section guys. But I was

835
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: playing all the guitars. And I think it just I

836
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: think it just sounded younger maybe then, like the way

837
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: even now, it's like, you know, there's the track guy.

838
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: I'm making air quotes for people who are only listening

839
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: the track guys in Nashville where they programmed the drums

840
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: and they get a sample from splice. Well, sometimes that

841
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: stuff is just captures of the magic, and it just

842
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: sounds like what is going on or what's what's happening.

843
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound old and stodgy. I think some for

844
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: some reason when we would make those demos and then

845
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: she would go in the studio with a producer and

846
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: with a band, and it would almost kind of like

847
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: take the cool out of it. I guess that's and

848
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 1: it has happened to me. I've been the guy who's

849
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: took taking the cool out of songs where you have

850
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: a demo that's just awesome, it's really cool, and I'm

851
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: sure you've heard those. I'm sure artists like, hey, I

852
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: just wrote this song, what do you think of this?

853
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: You know, before it's even been recorded. Then you go

854
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: and record it and it's better technically, but it's just

855
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: not as exciting, you know. And there was something to

856
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 1: what me and Taylor were doing where it was like

857
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: she was writing these songs that were super oddball for

858
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: the time. You know, Tim McGraw was the title of

859
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: one of the songs. You know, they were not they

860
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 1: didn't fit anywhere. And then I was doing these productions

861
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: that really didn't have any business being in Nashville. I

862
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: was more. I was trying to make like pop music

863
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: with country instruments kind of thing. So we were just

864
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: a good fit with that. And um, she just she

865
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: went to Scott Borsht and she's like, I really think

866
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 1: these demos just sound more like me. And and he,

867
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 1: to his credit, he gave he gave me a budget.

868
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: He gave a demo guy a budget, had never really

869
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: done anything, and gave me a shot. So when Taylor's

870
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: making Tim McGraw, which you just brought up, which is

871
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: a good example, it didn't sound or feel or it

872
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: wasn't like what was happening here at the time. Well,

873
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: I mean it kind of it wasn't It wasn't, you know.

874
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: I mean her her youth and her her songwriting, her perspective,

875
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,959
Speaker 1: her story, which was, you know, I'm in high school

876
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: and I'm feeling I'm feeling these feelings and I'm feeling

877
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: rejected or I'm feeling like I'm in love, and you

878
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: know that combined with a twenty eight year old guy

879
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: who doesn't really know what he's doing. But it came together,

880
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 1: you know, do you have to when you're producing And

881
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be Taylor, but it can be.

882
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: But somebody young who's a teenager. I'm just assuming you

883
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: have to handle them in a room differently than you

884
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: would handle an artist that's been there many, many times.

885
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: Just the psychological part of it's tough. So with Taylor,

886
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: you don't know what you're doing, she doesn't know what

887
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: she's doing. How do you communicate? Okay, I don't know.

888
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:44,760
Speaker 1: If we like how that vocal went, let's do it again.

889
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: What was that communication? Like? Well, I think we didn't

890
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: realize it at the time, but because neither one of

891
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: us had any kind of reputation or any kind of like,

892
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: you know, success, it was just honest, you know. I

893
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 1: remember one time I was like, you don't sound good today,

894
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,479
Speaker 1: go home, we'll work in tomorrow, you know. And would

895
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: I say that to a big famous person, you know,

896
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: especially not when I was young. Um, And then she

897
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: would be like, you know, dude, that track is horrible.

898
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: You know. I mean, we're just saying what we felt.

899
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: And there was no I wasn't worried about making a

900
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: big famous person mad. And then sometimes I feel like

901
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: new artists when you're in the room, like me being

902
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: a more of a veteran and then being a new artist,

903
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: I feel like they want to They want to tell

904
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: themselves that I must know more than them because I'm

905
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: older and been doing this longer. But there's a beauty

906
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: in just like being super honest with people, and if

907
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: you do it out of love, and you do it

908
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: because there's a common goal of making something great and

909
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: then hopefully it doesn't offend when you make the record.

910
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: Did you do the entire album? Yeah, so you make

911
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 1: the first album. And this is the most cliche question

912
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: that I can ask, but I just did you feel

913
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: like there was a shot at something right there, something

914
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: more than just a good record that may have a

915
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: couple of hits, which what everybody wants. Did you feel like,

916
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: all right, we might have something groundbreaking? Well, I will.

917
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: You have to put it in the context of where

918
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: where I was at the time, where she was a

919
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: young artist, you know, fifteen, and I think Billy Gilman

920
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: was and Leane Rhymes were the only two kind of

921
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: like people who had been successful before her, and Scott

922
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: Borsheta and Big Machine Records had two artists besides Taylor,

923
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: jack Ingram and Daniel Peck and I remember, collectively, between

924
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: those two artists, Big Machine had only sold maybe fifty

925
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 1: tho albums as a label. So my hopes were high

926
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: from a creative place and from knowing that Taylor was

927
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: really really good, like that she was very very special

928
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 1: as far as like songwriting talent, her communication skills and

929
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: as an artist. But business wise, I was like, this

930
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: probably won't be that big a deal because the same

931
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: reason you mentioned my songwriter friend earlier, Like you said,

932
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: you just looked at the landscape, he saw what was

933
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: being created and sold, and it probably just looking at

934
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: the numbers, mathematically, wasn't going to be that big of

935
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: a deal, even if it was great, even if it

936
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: was the greatest breaking thing ever, mathematically, it probably wasn't

937
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 1: going to be as big of a deal as as

938
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: you had hoped. Well, the story of Big Machine Records

939
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,720
Speaker 1: could be its own documentary of like a David Goliath

940
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: thing where Scott, you know, he had investors pull out

941
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: like he had. I mean it was they were painting

942
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,479
Speaker 1: the walls in the building. The paint was still wet.

943
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 1: It smelled like wet paint in the Big Machine office.

944
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: When we were stuff in the envelopes to send out

945
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: her first single. It was so new and I've been

946
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: in Nashville, grew up here long enough to see companies

947
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: start and fail, you know, so I wasn't like if

948
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: I if I said I was some kind of savant

949
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 1: could see the future, that this was all gonna work,

950
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 1: I'd be lying. But a lot of people in town didn't. No,

951
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: it's I will say this. It's not like I didn't believe.

952
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: It's just I didn't know. I was just like this,

953
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: this could go either way. You know Timograw tear drops

954
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: on my guitar, our song Picture to Burn. I mean

955
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: I should have said no, you know inside of that

956
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: were there any of those songs, and it could have

957
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,240
Speaker 1: been could have been a deeper cut to where you're like, wow,

958
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: she is quite the communicator here, like I've been working

959
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: when people around here they can't do this communication at

960
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:37,959
Speaker 1: this level. Yeah. Well, I mean our song she wrote

961
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: by herself when she was like fourteen, and if you

962
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: think about the lyric of that course, it's really genius.

963
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: That was kind of the first time I was like, oh, dang,

964
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: like who is this person? Because our song is a

965
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: slamming screen door, you know, sneaking out late, tapping on

966
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: your window, talking on the phone. You know, it's the

967
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: way you laugh. If you think if you break that down,

968
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: like if you put that chorus in a in a

969
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: college literature course, you'd be like, okay, our song the course.

970
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: Everything she's describing as sounds, you know, it's like slamming

971
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: screen door, tapping on a window. It's like, that's pretty genius,

972
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: you know for basically a you know, a kid, a minor,

973
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: for you know, writing that kind of stuff by herself.

974
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: I was like, this is really next level writing. And

975
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: I was always a fan of of of her songwriting

976
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: ability and and understood how good it was. But like

977
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: I said, it was like, I don't know if it's

978
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: gonna work, but it's really good. So it works. That

979
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: fresh record works obviously. Do you worry that as the

980
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: guy who didn't know what he was doing? This is

981
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: what you said that Now, Okay, well she has to success.

982
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: She'sy's probably gonna get somebody now really good, Like do

983
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: you worry about that or do you go for Oh,

984
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,359
Speaker 1: they have to go with me? We just did this together. Oh.

985
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 1: I mean I think that from the first record to

986
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: the second record, there we there wasn't any time to

987
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: catch your breath. I mean, we are just hit just

988
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: hit the ground running, so the Fearless came. We started

989
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: recording Fearless right away because she was writing those songs,

990
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: and then Speak Now was definitely a lot of pressure

991
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: because we had one Album of the Year at the

992
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: Grammys for Fearless, and we were like, Okay, everyone in

993
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: the world's gonna listen to this album. That was a

994
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: difference between Fearless and Speak Now. When we made Fearless

995
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,240
Speaker 1: was like people might hear this, you know, but speak

996
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 1: Now is like everyone's gonna listen to. Do you think

997
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 1: if you could go back in time and there was

998
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: more of a gap between record one and Record two,

999
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: do you think with success that have been like let's

1000
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,720
Speaker 1: let's go to somebody who's done this with some bigger artists.

1001
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: Do you think that you were obviously not lucky because

1002
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 1: of your skill set, but lucky in the timing that

1003
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 1: since you were just going, you got to keep going.

1004
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: And if there would have been a longer break, they

1005
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 1: would have looked for a more established producer, and eventually

1006
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: they did. Um, you know, Max Martin came in that

1007
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: stuff though, right, and that's and that's how I sleep

1008
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: at night. I'm like, oh, she she didn't fire me,

1009
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: she just changed genre. Oh I always I always felt

1010
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: that way. I felt like, you know, that was a

1011
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: switch because she switched. But I just think it's so

1012
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: amazing that she had to continue making She didn't have

1013
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: to be you guys kept making music between one and two.

1014
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 1: And if there would have been a break, that have

1015
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: been like, hey, the record was such a success. Maybe

1016
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: we have great in producers. Yeah, well they yeah, and

1017
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,760
Speaker 1: the insecurity that we all have as music makers would

1018
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: would say that, yes. I was thinking that. I was

1019
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 1: also just really focused on enjoying what we were doing

1020
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: and trying to make the best music we could and

1021
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 1: and I figured, like it can't go forever, you know,

1022
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,879
Speaker 1: But I was grateful that she came back. And yeah,

1023
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: if there had been a long time, or if the

1024
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: first record hadn't done very well, like the first record

1025
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 1: sold a lot too. Yeah, if if if something had

1026
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: happened where it was like real, you know, face plant,

1027
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: like on a release or something, I think that that

1028
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: would have that would have happened earlier. But we were

1029
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 1: we were together from the first album, second third half

1030
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: of Red and then I had one track, so it

1031
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: was like really good time. Was that a call like, hey,

1032
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: we just we're not gonna use you anymore. Was that

1033
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:13,959
Speaker 1: or just a fade out? I mean I've been fade

1034
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: a by a lot of people. I know what that How?

1035
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: How did how did that go? It was? It was

1036
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: handled as best as it could be. It's it's never

1037
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: easy to to I mean, we were working together, you know,

1038
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 1: a lot for a long time, and it's but I

1039
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of her for all the different moves

1040
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: she's made. She's somehow she's managed to stay relevant and

1041
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: important for so for so many records, and that's just

1042
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,959
Speaker 1: not easy. Like people don't really do that, you know. Yeah,

1043
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:48,280
Speaker 1: people don't stay number one famous and number one success

1044
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: for that amount of time, Like you have a window

1045
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: sometimes it's four to six to seven years. Well you're

1046
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: just a plus. You could stay a plus and a

1047
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: mine is and B plus and go back day. But

1048
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 1: she has stayed legitimately A one for what fifteen years.

1049
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 1: It's it's been crazy to see. I mean she might

1050
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 1: be if you were to weigh it out, Brittany Taylor,

1051
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of just like the most famous person that's

1052
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,439
Speaker 1: not the President, Oprah. You know, there's only a few

1053
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,839
Speaker 1: of them that you could just go. They have been

1054
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: famous and super successful the whole time, and you have

1055
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: a you have a massive part of that, so you

1056
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: have you produce all so many records. Do you ever

1057
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 1: get in a room? M hm? Because I do this

1058
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: and I don't want to admit that I do this.

1059
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: But after you do something for a long time at

1060
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: a high level, it almost becomes easy and you just

1061
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,280
Speaker 1: kind of fall into place and times you gotta recheck yourself.

1062
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: Does that ever happen to you? You're just being asleep

1063
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: at the wheel? Yeah? I hate to say asleep at

1064
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: the wheel. And it's a hard thing to to admit

1065
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 1: to where you're crushing it and you're like, well, I

1066
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 1: just want to keep crushing it. I'm gonna keep doing

1067
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. You almost don't challenge yourself because it's

1068
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: happening at a high level. So why would you challenge

1069
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: yourself any differently than you have been because you But

1070
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 1: when I do that, I tend to, uh, it tends

1071
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: to tend to get a little stale. Yeah. I think that.

1072
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 1: Fortunately for me, I have had just enough failures to

1073
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 1: keep me awake. Um, but were you failing in those

1074
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: early once you you're pros these records. I gotta imagine

1075
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: everybody's coming to you then. Yeah, and no, did you

1076
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: have any big bombs? You know, I said the artist.

1077
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 1: But records that you did with they were like what man,

1078
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: just didn't work out? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, how long do

1079
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: we have? Okay? Good? I'd like to hear that because

1080
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: it's like day you just touched it turned to gold. No, no, no,

1081
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: And that's the beautiful thing about this business. And Dan

1082
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: Huff and I were talking of a while back, and

1083
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 1: he actually he was on a podcast that Kevin Cadish

1084
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 1: and I started about songs that were written that have

1085
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: never been hits. UM and Uh, you'd be a great

1086
00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: guest on there. I've written a lot of songs more hits,

1087
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: or a lot of songs that you believe should have

1088
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: been a hit, and it hasn't come The podcast hasn't

1089
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: come out yet. Season one's done. It's called Uncut Gems.

1090
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure it'll be out soon. Cia is helping us

1091
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: figure out where we're gonna land it. UM. But Dan

1092
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: was on that UM podcast talking from his perspective about

1093
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: songs that he believed in that haven't been cut, that

1094
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 1: were never hits and UM, and he said the beautiful

1095
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: thing about this business is that no one really keeps

1096
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 1: track of the failures. You know. He's like, as we're

1097
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: like baseball players, Like you've got three hundred for your

1098
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: career and you're considered a genius. Well that's sevent of

1099
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: all your attempts didn't work. You know, there's a long

1100
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: list of things that I've done. And the other thing too,

1101
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 1: is like the older you get, the more young people

1102
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: coming up. Who are the twenty eight year old me?

1103
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,839
Speaker 1: You know, I'm in my forties now, so there's twenty

1104
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,760
Speaker 1: eight year old kids coming up that are whipping my ass.

1105
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 1: You have so many you have so many credits in

1106
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 1: the producing world. And I know, for example, you wrote

1107
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: Darius Grown Honey, which was the number one song. Were

1108
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: you not writing as much then because you were so

1109
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: just producing all the time. Yeah. The writing thing for

1110
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: me has always kind of been like a way to

1111
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 1: take a day off from the producing grind but still

1112
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: be making music. You know. Um and uh, the writing

1113
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 1: thing has always it's never really like cross pollinated that

1114
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 1: much with my production. It's like the writing things that

1115
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 1: I'm proud of I usually didn't produce, and the stuff

1116
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: that I produced, I haven't written, but yeah, I wrote

1117
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: like Black Like Me with Mickey Guytan and um, I

1118
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: got to produce that as well. I wrote a bunch

1119
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: of songs and you know, some records coming at Michael

1120
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 1: Blue Blake Cut Cut came out on Friday. Um are

1121
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: you are you doing that more intentionally now? Writing? It's

1122
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: just I want to make music every day, So some days,

1123
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: if I don't have anything to produce, I'm gonna try

1124
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 1: and write a song. I love the writing process because

1125
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: I feel like writing is a lot about addition and

1126
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:06,720
Speaker 1: production and subtraction. And production can get kind of taxing

1127
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: emotionally because it's a lot of no. Like better the

1128
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,439
Speaker 1: better producer you are, the more you're muting and saying

1129
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 1: no because you want to get it down to the

1130
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 1: simplest thing. And a writing session is like what if

1131
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 1: we did this and what if we did that? It

1132
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 1: feels more like addition, Like it's like an upbeat. Like

1133
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 1: when I write a great song, I come out of

1134
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 1: my studio, walk into the kitchen in the house and

1135
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: kind of on cloud nine. You know, if I produce

1136
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: really well that day, I kind of like need a

1137
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:31,439
Speaker 1: glass of wine, Like I just need to, like chill

1138
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: because it's pretty intense for for my brain. That's just

1139
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 1: how my brain processes those two things. And so the writing,

1140
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: even if I write a great song and it doesn't

1141
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: get cut, it might put me in a better place

1142
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: emotionally musically to produce the next day, or you know

1143
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,360
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. It's like, I can't just produce

1144
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: all day every day, or I would feel like it's

1145
00:55:50,960 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: just too negative. It's a very negative space. Do you have.

1146
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,839
Speaker 1: I'll say that bodywork a song that you listen back

1147
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: to and you're like, man, that was really me doing

1148
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 1: the best I can do. Like it's just three minutes

1149
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 1: that you're so proud of and it doesn't have to

1150
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: be a hit. But if if I ask you that question,

1151
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: like what comes to mind. I hadn't listened to the

1152
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 1: Fearless album in a long time, and I put it

1153
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: on like last year, and I listened to the Untouchable

1154
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: cover that's on there, or the song that you know,

1155
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,879
Speaker 1: the Barlow guys did, and I was like, Wow, that's

1156
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: really good. I don't know if I could do that now,

1157
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 1: Like it it sounded like all the gears were working

1158
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:36,919
Speaker 1: in my brain. Then you know, I didn't have kids then,

1159
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: and I just I just lived and breathed fourteen hours

1160
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: a day just music, you know. Um, And now I've

1161
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: I've got songs that are just work tapes where I'm like,

1162
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: I really like that. But it's it's pretty rare for

1163
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 1: me to really high five like past me. Yeah, as

1164
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: it should be. Yeah, I mean I hate everything I do. Yeah,

1165
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: I can't listen to my voice. I hate it. I mean,

1166
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 1: I played someone Gonna Stay the other day. I don't.

1167
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: I don't live that. It's so good though, thanks. Well, listen,

1168
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 1: that was that could be your uncut gem if you

1169
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: come on. That is such a smash. It's not, but no,

1170
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 1: it is not. Listen. I played it for we were

1171
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: talking about like, oh, we should write a you're a

1172
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: real life guy, don't act like what? No, and I

1173
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: and I remember embarrassing played it on the radio and

1174
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: I heard I was driving home or something that morning,

1175
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 1: and I remember I tweeted something and then like ten

1176
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: minutes later, you're like, Nathan JamMan just tweeted, like my song,

1177
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,439
Speaker 1: I'd like making fun of me. No, No, it's it's

1178
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: so good dude. Well I gotta give that was me

1179
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: and at the time a songwriter in town who was

1180
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 1: an artist really struggling that. I was like, man, this

1181
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: guy's good. I was playing, but it's Walker Hayes. We

1182
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 1: wrote that together. We went to the Shack and we

1183
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: wrote that and we were like, well, I don't know

1184
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: who's ever gonna hear this. You know that little shack?

1185
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 1: Is it behind the building that's where I started producing

1186
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: Taylor music? Really? Yeah, that that was the little one

1187
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: car garage studio that I was emped in for like

1188
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 1: three years when I was doing all those demos for

1189
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: Liz and its resume tailor's. I mean that's a pretty

1190
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: heavy that's a little room though. I'm so happy to

1191
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: hear that you did that in that room. Yeah, that

1192
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: room has something in it. We wrote it. It's like

1193
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: a radiation coming out of the ground that has like

1194
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 1: music in it or something. And I was like, Walk,

1195
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: I just don't know if I have like the swagger

1196
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 1: to He's like, you got it, man, you got it.

1197
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: And we went in the studio and just him and I,

1198
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: you know, just do it. He's like, man, you got this.

1199
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: I remember being so pumped up by Walker. So I

1200
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: did it, and I wrote it and I recorded it

1201
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm this sounds so stupid, and

1202
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: then it was pretty It was pretty good. I'll say

1203
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 1: it was pretty good. The end all right, well, how

1204
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 1: can you get how can you and Walker do a

1205
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 1: version for for him? Now that he's he's got an

1206
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: even bigger platform. Hey fire me? Okay, yeah, I don't know.

1207
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: No that song you guys co wrote it? Right? Yeah,

1208
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 1: he's just and I all right, Walker, put that on

1209
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 1: your next project. It's so good. Well, where do you

1210
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: keep your Grammies? You have three Grammys? Wheread you keep

1211
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: them there in the studio, and I have, um there

1212
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: there there's three, so there there it makes an incomplete square, right,

1213
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: So there's like one, two three, and there's a one missing.

1214
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: So I took a piece of paper and I wrote

1215
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:18,479
Speaker 1: the Grammy for the music we're working on today goes

1216
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: here to make like a perfect square. And so that's

1217
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: where I keep them. I keep them there to remind

1218
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 1: me to try and do good work, you know, do peeple.

1219
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 1: I'm assuming people come over there and see that too.

1220
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: I mean that would be inspired if I came over

1221
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: and we'd record a Noms Day too, and you're like this,

1222
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: this is what we're working for right here to fill

1223
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: this spot. Yeah, there's a there's a there's a spot

1224
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: that where this gram the next Grammy goes and it's

1225
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 1: gonna be ours. So this dumb question, but in what

1226
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: capacity do you feel like we'll just stay an award

1227
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: like your your neck because you've got you've got uh

1228
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 1: c M A A c M A couple of double

1229
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: war I'm going from memory here, Grammys, what what world

1230
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: are you working in now? Not the artist, but is

1231
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: it producing this songwriting? Where you feel like I got

1232
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: a good shot at something here. If I were to

1233
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: win something, it would be in this area. Well, um,

1234
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 1: I produced three songs, I co wrote four and produced

1235
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: three on Mickey Guydan's new album, and it's nominated for

1236
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 1: Country Album of the Year. And I guess the Grammys

1237
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 1: are next week, next weekend or whatever. You really could

1238
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 1: get that fourth one? Well, here's the thing you got,

1239
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: pagon I could put I could put a fake one there.

1240
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 1: But the the way the Grammy rules work is that

1241
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 1: you have to have produced of the album in order

1242
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 1: to get the actual hardware. So and I'm super happy

1243
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: for if it happens with Karen Kosowski would get She's

1244
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 1: got thet she's got the Grammy if it wins a Grammy.

1245
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: But I got close so so to get the hardware.

1246
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 1: But alright, can you claim I could claim that I

1247
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: produced songs on a Grammy Award one album, And I'm

1248
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: really picky about that. I don't want to say, like

1249
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: I want a Grammy even though it's it's Karen's. You know,

1250
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: what's the vibe in your studio? Um, it's kind of

1251
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 1: like gold curtains and black painted ship lap and like

1252
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 1: my wife decorated, it's like golden black. And I'm not

1253
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: necessarily a bandy fan, but you'd think I was if

1254
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: you came over, you and your wife. Maybe you're like

1255
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 1: your parents to you on the road, singing songs. No

1256
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: little song kids are got, kids are getting a little older.

1257
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 1: Yeah no, no chance. No. I think my mom and

1258
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 1: dad are there. Uh they're pulling the r V into

1259
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 1: the driveway at this point in their career. Well, but

1260
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. You're taking over the RV, you

1261
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 1: and your wife because you put out a record like

1262
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 1: seven years or yeah, that right with intention of what

1263
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: I just wanted to do. It just needed to scratch

1264
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 1: the itch. I had a bunch of songs and it

1265
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: just popped in my head. I haven't had that it's

1266
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: show up since I played I did like a I mean,

1267
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: this is seven years ago. We still did CD release parties.

1268
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 1: You know. You know it sounds so old now to

1269
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 1: say that. I'm sorry anyone who's under thirty for saying

1270
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: those words, but um, I had Martinez was on the

1271
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 1: front row, Charles and Dave from Lady A and they

1272
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: were all hanging out listening, and Pete Fisher was there

1273
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 1: and he was the head of opera at the time.

1274
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 1: He was just my friends, but Pete kind of I

1275
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: could see him kind of looking around the room and

1276
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: his wheels were turning in Right after I got done,

1277
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 1: he came up and he's like, I want you to

1278
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 1: do this on the opera, these songs. I was like, okay,

1279
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: so that was cool. So I just I put a

1280
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: record out just for me. My friends really appreciated it.

1281
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: Um I had a song on there I wrote with

1282
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 1: Andrew dorff Are, the songwriter who passed away a fe

1283
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: years ago. But I'm really proud of that one and

1284
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 1: just made it just because I I just needed to

1285
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 1: make something. And I also I asked a lot of

1286
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: times I worked with artists, new artists, and I'll say,

1287
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: if if you had to strip down what you do

1288
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 1: to just a piano and your vocal, or just a

1289
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 1: guitar and and your vocal, Like, what would you be

1290
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 1: if you were in that spot? And I hadn't asked

1291
01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 1: myself that question a long time, and I turned that

1292
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 1: question on me and I was like, that's a hard question.

1293
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 1: So I think going through that process made me a

1294
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 1: better producer and music maker, and better collaborator and a

1295
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 1: better friend artists who are stressed out. Like sometimes when

1296
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: you're a producer and there's so when you're on the

1297
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: macro level, there's so many things going on, and then

1298
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 1: you know, the artists will call you at eleven at

1299
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 1: night and be like the shakers too loud in the mix,

1300
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: and you're like, what you care about a shape? You know,

1301
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 1: you can almost kind of get like a little bit

1302
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: numb to the to the details just because there's so

1303
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 1: much going on. And then I was, but I was

1304
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 1: the guy obsessed about the shaker, you know, or they'll

1305
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: probably give you re perspective. It was. It was like

1306
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 1: a recalibration of because I had come out of all

1307
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 1: that that tailor journey, all that success and all that

1308
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: stress and intense that's just that intense, intense existence that

1309
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 1: I was in the needsy to just kind of like

1310
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: just make music for no good reason. What do you

1311
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 1: do for fun? Now? Musically not a hobby, but what

1312
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: fun for you music? The most fun thing for me

1313
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: is to play bass. I love playing bass, and I'll

1314
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 1: play bass on the session. Now. It's been the last

1315
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 1: few years I've kind of moved from being the acoustic

1316
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: guitar player on a tracking date to being the bass player,

1317
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: and I just love that instrument changes. The way you

1318
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: play the bass changes the whole band more than an

1319
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 1: acoustic guitar. You know, acoustic guitar is like a glorified

1320
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 1: shaker in a country band. But the bass, I mean,

1321
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 1: the way you play, the note, you choose, the tone, YouTube,

1322
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 1: all that stuff kind of it really talks to the

1323
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 1: music of of what's going on. And so if I

1324
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 1: had to do something for fun, like sometimes I daydream

1325
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 1: of like going on the road as a bass player

1326
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: with a really cool artist and just being in that headspace,

1327
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: I love that. Would you ever, I'm just gonna use

1328
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: an artist and I don't even know if a relationship

1329
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 1: with them, but like a like Eric Church or artist X.

1330
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: Would you say, hey, I'll fill in if your bass

1331
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: player goes down. Do you think you can pick it

1332
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 1: up in two days? Like learn what the seid like?

1333
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 1: Do you could you take that in, digest it and

1334
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: then play it in two days. I texted Keith and

1335
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 1: I was like, if Jerry Flowers gets a cold call

1336
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: me because I played on that uh the Speed of Light,

1337
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 1: I think the Speed of Sound EP that Keith put out.

1338
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: I'm playing based on a few of those tracks. I

1339
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 1: didn't produce or write anything. I just was the bass player.

1340
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 1: He he and he brought me in as a bass player.

1341
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 1: He he was super cool to do that, but he

1342
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: wanted to shake up that seat in the band a

1343
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:31,520
Speaker 1: little bit. Of all the tracks you sing background on,

1344
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 1: which can you hear your voice most distinctly? And it's

1345
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 1: like day, why do they turn me up so much? Okay? There?

1346
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 1: That's uh the song ours or ours? How do you

1347
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:44,480
Speaker 1: say rs O U R S. It's hard to say

1348
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: that word by itself. Uh? That is on the is

1349
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: that the speak Now record? It was a bonus track

1350
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 1: I think with Taylor and um. I remember we were

1351
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 1: mixing the record, and she kept telling Justin Kniebank, She's like,

1352
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 1: turn Nathan up, turn Nathan up. Well, if you listen

1353
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 1: back to it, it sounds like a duet. Like it

1354
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 1: I'm I'm as loud as she is, or even louder

1355
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 1: than her in a couple of spots. And so yeah,

1356
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 1: that's one where I'm like, oh my goodness, that's a

1357
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 1: lot of Nate. Hey, read you get your one question here.

1358
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 1: Read here. He's a video guy, but he's also a

1359
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 1: big music nerd. What is your question for Nathan? Let's see,

1360
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 1: so with the amount of new artists you've worked with,

1361
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 1: and even just the younger artist, Um, what advice would

1362
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 1: you give uh to someone who's coming up or just

1363
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 1: new as trying to find their sound? Because I know

1364
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 1: that's just like that's such a hard thing, especially when

1365
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: you're um about to put out your first record or

1366
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: something like that, worrying about like that's what's gonna staple

1367
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 1: you down to what you're known for. So like, what's

1368
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 1: what's advice you would you give in that area you're

1369
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 1: finding your sound? I think, um, I think i'd in

1370
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: a perfect world you would discover your sound. You would

1371
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: you would you, it would reveal itself to you through

1372
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:58,760
Speaker 1: trial and error and through figuring out what what you

1373
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 1: feel like your story could be with your fans. You know.

1374
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 1: I think if you think about like, uh, like Dan

1375
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 1: and Shay, you know, they found they had that sound

1376
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:10,920
Speaker 1: very early on. I co wrote one of the songs

1377
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 1: on their first record with him, and and it was like,

1378
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: you know, basically, we've got this singer who's so good.

1379
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: What do we just want to do to make that

1380
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 1: voice sound even better? You know? So? And then there's

1381
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 1: other people who find their sound based on their song writing,

1382
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 1: like they right, they just have a propensity to write

1383
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 1: pop country or to write traditional country or whatever. It is.

1384
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 1: Like like, if you're Ashley McBride, finding your sound seems

1385
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 1: like it would be pretty no brainer. It's like I've

1386
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 1: seen country music and I play my acoustic and just

1387
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 1: make that bigger, you know. So, I feel like if

1388
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 1: you are in a place where you really are trying

1389
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: to find your sound and you just can't find it,

1390
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 1: there's other questions that need to be answered. First, who

1391
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 1: who are you? What are you trying to do? What

1392
01:07:57,560 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: do you like? What's the what's the true north of

1393
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 1: your music? You know? Like if a traditional country artist

1394
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: like I remember when George straight put out leave you

1395
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 1: with a smile. It was like, oh, that's a that's

1396
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 1: a departure from what we know is George. But at

1397
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 1: least we know what George is, you know. And I

1398
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 1: feel like an artist who really can't find their sound,

1399
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:23,920
Speaker 1: that's the least of their problems, for sure, you know

1400
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 1: what I mean. Listen, we've been here over an hour.

1401
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 1: I don't know why you Why did you have me?

1402
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 1: Do you? We spent the last hour talking about why

1403
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 1: we had This is not what you ask at the end.

1404
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 1: We've gone through and picked through your entire life and

1405
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 1: all of your awards and I mean theories, and I'm

1406
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:44,599
Speaker 1: very honored to be a part of this and uh

1407
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 1: the Bobby Cast, and because I think that you have

1408
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 1: definitely brought a m just an excitement into the conversation

1409
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: about country music. You know, your radio show and and uh,

1410
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,600
Speaker 1: all the things you're doing is just and you're just

1411
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: you're just a great advocate for what we're doing. And

1412
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 1: I think part of it is because you're not afraid

1413
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 1: to challenge the town and challenge the status quo. Thank

1414
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 1: you for doing that. If we can't handle you, then

1415
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 1: we've got you. Know, then we need to quit. You

1416
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like if you push back on

1417
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 1: something in Nashville and and and it can't withstand a

1418
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 1: little criticism or a little question, then it's not right.

1419
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:23,920
Speaker 1: And I think you've made our town better. So I

1420
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 1: appreciate that. We definitely didn't expect the success of this

1421
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 1: specific podcast. We I just enjoyed it, and I enjoyed

1422
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 1: talking to songwriters and producers and that includes artist who

1423
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 1: are songs And that was just the idea was let's

1424
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 1: go second and third layer that often doesn't get enough

1425
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 1: time spent on it, and so we didn't predict the success.

1426
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 1: We liked the success. Um, I appreciate you saying that.

1427
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 1: And I'm just a big fan. Just like when I

1428
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 1: come to the airport and I was like, hey man,

1429
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:52,720
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan. I just kept walking. I was like,

1430
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of like you just kept walking

1431
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't even know if I

1432
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 1: said my name. So you're you're you're great man. That

1433
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:01,280
Speaker 1: was great, and so yeah, and you gotta come on

1434
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:04,320
Speaker 1: me and Kevin Show and okay, no I'm not not.

1435
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: This is what I we could highlight that for a

1436
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:10,439
Speaker 1: split second, but I had there's a couple of songs

1437
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:13,719
Speaker 1: I think she don't love you, she just don't live

1438
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:16,439
Speaker 1: that er Derek Paslay song, I can't believe it wasn't

1439
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 1: a massive hit. Yeah, I think it ended up getting

1440
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:22,919
Speaker 1: a C M A and like, uh maybe like hit eleven.

1441
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:25,439
Speaker 1: But when it comes to songs where I'm like, I

1442
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 1: don't understand how this isn't hit, that's that's the one.

1443
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 1: Your perspective on that whole journey of like this song

1444
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 1: is great, but it is not a hit. Like that

1445
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:36,920
Speaker 1: would be really interesting to talk to you about how

1446
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 1: you see that, because that's got to be something like

1447
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 1: you're just talking about you. You you have observed that.

1448
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:45,680
Speaker 1: But I'm telling you, if I'm not listening to this,

1449
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:51,719
Speaker 1: I'm all right. Nathan Chapman follow him Nathan Chapman Official.

1450
01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:55,640
Speaker 1: And for like ten bucks so producer record. That's what

1451
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 1: I hear. It's like it's like ten dollars right now.

1452
01:10:57,560 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: You could get it while it's hot, while supplies last.

1453
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:06,920
Speaker 1: All right, Thanks Nan, thank you. M HM