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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

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Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's here too, which

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Speaker 1: makes this stuff you should know the podcast. Oh you

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Speaker 1: know what? Say small talk? While I look up? Who

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Speaker 1: gave me this idea? Why do you keep doing this

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Speaker 1: to me? I have to like entertain everybody. You once

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Speaker 1: did this to me on stage. Get this everybody. We

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Speaker 1: were on stage at the Bell House in Brooklyn and

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Speaker 1: Chuck said he had to go to the bathroom all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, and I was left on stage, um,

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Speaker 1: having to entertain everybody while he just hung out backstage.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you even went to go to the bathroom.

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Speaker 1: And long story short, I ended up showing off my moonwalk. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I totally went to the bathroom. You think that

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Speaker 1: was all a bit. Yeah, maybe you went and took

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Speaker 1: some drugs to keep going on stage, but I'm sure

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Speaker 1: in the green room you didn't even need to go

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Speaker 1: do those in the bathroom. Uh No. I genuinely had

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Speaker 1: to pee such that I didn't think I could make

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Speaker 1: it through the show. I've I've felt that way before.

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Speaker 1: To San Antonio. Um I had to run off the

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Speaker 1: stage once because of that. That's right, all right, I

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Speaker 1: got you, I got it. Uh, this idea. Initially this

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Speaker 1: is on my list, but I forgot about it, but

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Speaker 1: then was reminded by Alexander or Alex Ramos and State

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Speaker 1: College Pennsylvania. All right, um, well thanks a lot, Alex Ramos.

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Speaker 1: This is a great idea. Tiles. Had you ever heard

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Speaker 1: of this? Sure? Had you not? Well? No, I just

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Speaker 1: said it had long been on my list. Okay, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Where did you hear of it? Uh? It just one

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Speaker 1: of those things that pops up on the internet and

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, let me read about this. This looks

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Speaker 1: interesting for sure, and it is definitely interesting, but um

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Speaker 1: in it would have been I think even more interesting

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Speaker 1: ten years ago before the mystery was virtually solved. True,

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Speaker 1: but it's still interesting if you ask me. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I think this is one of those where we should

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Speaker 1: very clearly tell everyone what we're talking about right now. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what we're talking about is a phenomenon called the

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Speaker 1: Toynbee tiles where in in the asphalt on the street,

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Speaker 1: um on street corners and crosswalks and intersections, all over

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Speaker 1: the um the northeast, seemingly concentrated in Philadelphia, but also

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Speaker 1: going as far west as I think Kansas City, and

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Speaker 1: then also strangely down in Chile, Argentina and Brazil. These

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Speaker 1: these tiles bearing some really bizarre messages cut out of

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Speaker 1: linoleum and again embedded into the asphalt of the street

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Speaker 1: started appearing and have appeared mysterious sleep. No one has

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Speaker 1: any idea or any any demonstrable proof of who is

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Speaker 1: actually doing this, but they have been doing it since

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Speaker 1: at least the mid eighties and conceivably still going on

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Speaker 1: today right uh. And they are known as the Toynbee tiles.

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Speaker 1: They're about the size of a license plate. And the

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Speaker 1: general main message that you see on most of these

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Speaker 1: is as follows, and it's in a very distinct script.

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Speaker 1: It is generally all caps, cut out letters made of linoleum,

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Speaker 1: cut out linoleum, and it says this Toynbee that is

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Speaker 1: t O I N B E Toynbee idea. Underneath that

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Speaker 1: it says in Kubrick's two thousand one, underneath that it

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Speaker 1: says resurrect dead, and underneath that it says on planet Jupiter.

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Speaker 1: And then a lot of tiles will have these little

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Speaker 1: tags underneath and much smaller script that say all kinds

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Speaker 1: of things, and we'll just read a few examples here. Uh,

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Speaker 1: media will be reduced to ash. Uh, you must make

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Speaker 1: plus place tiles you. I like that one because you

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Speaker 1: has three exclamation points after I'm only one man, which

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Speaker 1: turned out to be a clue, and when I caught

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Speaker 1: a fatal disease, they gloated over its death. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: is my favorite. Can I read? Sure? Now? Galileo's Cult

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Speaker 1: of the Hell You In is now searching for more

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Speaker 1: than one hell ideologies to get more reward, right, and

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Speaker 1: then one final one I think because it's instructive to

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Speaker 1: the story murder all journalists. I beg you. So these

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Speaker 1: are the little smaller messages underneath the main for I

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Speaker 1: guess you would call um tenants of this individual and um.

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Speaker 1: One thing we should point out and Ed helped us

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Speaker 1: put this together is apparently. And this is something I

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Speaker 1: didn't even realize until yesterday. When this person refers to

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Speaker 1: Hellien's apparently, he's talking about Jewish people. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's proven. I think specifically he's talking about like

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Speaker 1: a Jewish conspiracy of Jewish cabal, usually a Jewish media

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Speaker 1: conspiracy is seemingly what he's referring to. By Hellian's okay,

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Speaker 1: so there is in some of these styles an anti

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Speaker 1: Semitic bit to them. Uh. And it also points out that, um,

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Speaker 1: this person perhaps may have some sort of mental illness,

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Speaker 1: but it's also not right to even say that because

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Speaker 1: we don't even know who this person is demonstrably as

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Speaker 1: for proof. Like you said, so, it's also not great

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Speaker 1: to like project that when you really don't know anything. No,

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Speaker 1: And depending on where you look on the Internet, what

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Speaker 1: sites you visit, UM, some I think there's one called

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Speaker 1: toynb Idea, either dot net or dot com or something

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Speaker 1: like that. It's an authoritative site. It's by one of

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Speaker 1: the main investigators of these toynb tiles who um ended

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Speaker 1: up working on this documentary that basically solved the case. Um.

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Speaker 1: He refers to the the toynbetiles is like an art

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Speaker 1: project basically, So it could be the ravings of a

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Speaker 1: madman or the ongoing project of an artist, or it

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Speaker 1: could be somebody who legitimately wants to make a crazy

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Speaker 1: idea happen. There's a lot of different interpretations, and like

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Speaker 1: you said, because we can't say for sure who it

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Speaker 1: is that is doing this. You can't really get to

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Speaker 1: the genuine like you can't prove oh, well, this person

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Speaker 1: is is has a mental illness that there, this is

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Speaker 1: how they're they're communicating that mental illness like you just

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Speaker 1: you just can't say that, but it is worth putting

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Speaker 1: in the back of your mind as you kind of

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Speaker 1: hear the rest of it, you know. Yeah, and that documentary,

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Speaker 1: by the way, it's called Resurrect Dead uh um. It

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Speaker 1: is available on YouTube. But the recent I mentioned YouTube

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Speaker 1: is I didn't find that you could pay for it

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Speaker 1: anywhere and watch it. But that's right, you can pay

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Speaker 1: for it. I did pay for it like a chump.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't find it on YouTube. What I was trying

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Speaker 1: to do the right thing? Where did you find it?

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Speaker 1: Voo voodoo? See? I looked all over. I used my

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Speaker 1: handy app that tells you where you can stream stuff,

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Speaker 1: and it was unlisted. And then I looked on a

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Speaker 1: few streamers and it was unlisted. So I went to YouTube,

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Speaker 1: and it's just sitting right there, so I'll watch man.

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Speaker 1: I looked at YouTube and all I could find were

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Speaker 1: those stupid previews. Did you type in twin be titles documentary. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I typed in the name of it resurrect Dead. It's weird,

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Speaker 1: it's the first hit. I don't know what happened. Well, regardless,

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Speaker 1: it's about an hour and a half long and it's

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Speaker 1: worth watching. I think it's a good, good doc It's

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Speaker 1: not great, but I think for when it was made,

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Speaker 1: I think I think that they did a pretty good

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Speaker 1: job of it. Yeah. I think it's got like a

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Speaker 1: six plus maybe even a seven on AMDB, and I

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Speaker 1: would agree with that it was worth the four dollars

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Speaker 1: I paid to rent it. I I'm I'm fine with that.

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Speaker 1: Uh So we should talk a little bit about the message,

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Speaker 1: I think, and break down what that means, because there's

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Speaker 1: a there are a lot of components to this mystery,

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Speaker 1: um from what the message means, where it came from,

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Speaker 1: to who is doing this, how they're doing it, and

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty interesting, little multi pronged mystery, I think. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And thanks to those three investigators who worked on the documentary,

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Speaker 1: who are kind of portrayed on the documentary, we basically

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Speaker 1: understand everything there is to understand about what the Toynbee

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Speaker 1: tilemaker's ideas are and what they mean. But that's fairly new.

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Speaker 1: I mean for years, basically from the advent of the

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Speaker 1: Internet to the toy Be tiles were taken up as

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Speaker 1: like a something to commemorate and discuss and talk about

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Speaker 1: from from the very beginning, and so there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of time for this mystery to brew, and it was

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Speaker 1: fairly recent that it kind of been settled. But what

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Speaker 1: they figured out is um from the outset. The Toynbee

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Speaker 1: that was discussed or mentioned in the tiles is Arnold J. Toynbee,

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Speaker 1: who was kind of a popular historian. He wrote about

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Speaker 1: civilizations and the history of civilizations and the history of

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Speaker 1: politics and how it all kind of banded together, and

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Speaker 1: how the civilizations that rose and fell over time we're

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Speaker 1: all part of the same kind of current, that they

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Speaker 1: were all related to one another, and that they rose

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Speaker 1: and fell in predictable ways. Usually they would rise when

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Speaker 1: a group of very smart, creative people would kind of

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Speaker 1: lead the charge and creatively addressing a problem, and civilizations

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Speaker 1: would fall when people stopped responding creatively two problems and

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Speaker 1: were overwhelmed by those problems. And he was really really

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Speaker 1: popular for a while, but then he started to really

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Speaker 1: kind of take an increasingly christian view worldview of history

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Speaker 1: and politics and placed a greater emphasis on the role

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Speaker 1: of religions and Christianity, I believe in particular than historians

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Speaker 1: in general were comfortable with and his his views kind

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Speaker 1: of fell out of favor. Suffice to say, he was

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Speaker 1: a genuine, um original thinker who who is definitely worth

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Speaker 1: you know, reading about, if not reading directly. And it's

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Speaker 1: a good thing his name was Toynbee. Yeah, it really

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Speaker 1: made it a lot easier to narrow down the first

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Speaker 1: mystery basically definitely, which is who is Toynbee? Uh, if

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Speaker 1: it was the smith tiles a lot harder, But that

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Speaker 1: is certainly the Toynbee. And it seems like the idea

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Speaker 1: that uh, and we'll refer to the person as the

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Speaker 1: tilemaker as it does Um toynbees book experiences seems to

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Speaker 1: be uh, the centerpiece of the crux of the idea

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Speaker 1: that the tilemaker is. Uh, let's just say fixated on um,

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Speaker 1: the concept of the soul and the possibility that you

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Speaker 1: could resurrect after death down to the molecular level. UM,

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Speaker 1: and that's sort of what you know, what resurrected dead

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Speaker 1: means in this case. And then as far as on

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Speaker 1: planet Jupiter that comes it seems like at least and

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Speaker 1: again they were piecing this people of pieces together because

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Speaker 1: they've never interviewed the tilemaker. But there it looks like

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Speaker 1: that's from Stanley Kubrick's two thousand one of Space Odyssey,

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Speaker 1: because it mentions Kubrick and in that novel they are

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Speaker 1: as you know, the star child is reborn on Jupiter. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's where the astronauts are being dispatched too, is

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Speaker 1: Jupiter to figure out what's going on with some weird

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Speaker 1: signal coming from that planet. Right, that's right. So if

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Speaker 1: you put all those things together, then these four ideas

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Speaker 1: as the toy b idea makes sense. It does, it

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Speaker 1: does kind of make sense. And and like toynb died

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Speaker 1: the you cannot say, like the tilemaker does that Toynbee

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Speaker 1: had the idea of resurrecting the dead on Jupiter um,

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Speaker 1: and that two thousand one was about that Toynbee idea.

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Speaker 1: That's a that's the tilemaker's interpretation of all of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: But Toynbee was talking about scientifically resurrecting people or whether

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Speaker 1: it was possible, and the tilemaker took that idea and

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Speaker 1: ran with it and basically came to believe that the

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Speaker 1: that science was meant to carry out the project of

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Speaker 1: creating the afterlife that God promised, and that to resurrect

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Speaker 1: everybody um who had ever lived, you would need a

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Speaker 1: plan at the size of Jupiter, which is a huge, huge,

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Speaker 1: it's a gas giant um that you would need a

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Speaker 1: plan at the size of Jupiter to fit all those people.

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Speaker 1: So it makes sense in all sorts of different ways

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Speaker 1: once you understand all of it. But even still, if

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Speaker 1: you step back and think about what what they're what

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Speaker 1: they're saying, the tilemakers saying, it's a genuinely bizarre idea,

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Speaker 1: especially if you stop in realize that they legitimately we're

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Speaker 1: trying to make this idea happen. Well, and again that's

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Speaker 1: an assumption in and of itself. Like one day the

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Speaker 1: tilemaker could come out and say, hey, this was all

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Speaker 1: a joke, and basically banks he meets the Max Headroom incident,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I've been meets Andy Kaufman and I've been

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Speaker 1: punking you guys all these years. Of course I know

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Speaker 1: that that's not possible, but yeah, I don't know it

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00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,760
Speaker 1: seems like this is something that this person believes and

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Speaker 1: that they're trying to get this message out, because another

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Speaker 1: way that this message was gotten out is in a

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Speaker 1: neighborhood in Philadelphia, and I guess the nineteen eighties was

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Speaker 1: when people would be watching television and all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden their signal would be interrupted by this toyn B

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Speaker 1: message coming through the TV. Uh and they figured out

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Speaker 1: that it was and I hope I'm not getting too

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Speaker 1: far ahead, but we'll keep the mystery intact. But it

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Speaker 1: was coming from someone driving around their car with a

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Speaker 1: high powered antenna that could cause us kind of interference.

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Speaker 1: And this was pre tile, so this would have been

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Speaker 1: the very early eighties, because they think the first tiles

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Speaker 1: that were laid down where laid down in the mid eighties,

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Speaker 1: and then even before the first tile, so basically around

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Speaker 1: the time now, I think even before the UM the

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Speaker 1: driving around interrupting people's TV watching, there were posters around

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia that were placed up that had very um odd

238
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:33,120
Speaker 1: messages on them UM and then but they were all

239
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,920
Speaker 1: generally like the same stuff the tiles we're talking about,

240
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,880
Speaker 1: which again was the idea of resurrecting the dead on

241
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Speaker 1: Jupiter that was a toybee idea that was depicted in

242
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Speaker 1: two thousand one. That's generally the bulk of the message,

243
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,080
Speaker 1: but also there's a weird, little kind of side tangent

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Speaker 1: that happened. Um. David Mammitt plays a role in this

245
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,040
Speaker 1: because in three moment wrote a play called four Am

246
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Speaker 1: and he said later that it was an homage to

247
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Speaker 1: Larry King, who back in the early early eighties was

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Speaker 1: a late night radio talk show host, but long before

249
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Speaker 1: he had his TV show before Yeah and ma'am it

250
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,680
Speaker 1: used to listen to that, uh, and he wrote a

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Speaker 1: one act play based on it. And in the one

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Speaker 1: act play, the caller who calls into this this radio

253
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Speaker 1: show talks about resurrecting the dead on Jupiter and how

254
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Speaker 1: people are dead molecules that you could bring back to life,

255
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Speaker 1: and uh, ma'am it basically said, I guess this guy

256
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,280
Speaker 1: got the idea from me. But if you step back

257
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,600
Speaker 1: and look at the timeline of everything, that call apparently

258
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,760
Speaker 1: went in in nineteen eighty and ma'ma didn't write the

259
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,760
Speaker 1: play for three years later, So David Mammitt probably wrote

260
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Speaker 1: a play based on a call he heard of the

261
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:49,000
Speaker 1: tilemaker who called into Larry king In to explain his

262
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Speaker 1: views on resurrecting the dead on Jupiter right, and everywhere

263
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,480
Speaker 1: I've looked, I haven't really seen that anyone is accusing

264
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Speaker 1: Mamot of being dishonest. I think the general all consensuses

265
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,880
Speaker 1: if that were the case, that he probably didn't realize

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00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,520
Speaker 1: that he had heard it and probably remembers it as

267
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,760
Speaker 1: an original idea, and not that he just stole the

268
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,920
Speaker 1: thing and lied about it. No, but it is impossible

269
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Speaker 1: that it's a coincidence because of the language that's used

270
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 1: in the one act, like resurrect dead molecules, um just

271
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Speaker 1: resurrect him on Jupiter two thousand one has mentioned, TOYNB

272
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,960
Speaker 1: has mentioned, it's just not possible that it's a coincidence.

273
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Speaker 1: Somebody influenced somebody else. But yeah, it does seem to

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Speaker 1: be honest from what I can tell to. All Right,

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00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,640
Speaker 1: good time for a break. I think I think the

276
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,040
Speaker 1: mysteries mounting. I think so. I think people have their

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00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:46,120
Speaker 1: popcorn out and they're ready for part two. Okay, well

278
00:16:46,200 --> 00:17:09,959
Speaker 1: let's give it to him. We'll be right back, all right.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned at the beginning, Uh, Philadelphia is the centerpiece,

280
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Speaker 1: and it is I mean, I feel like we can

281
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,560
Speaker 1: almost certainly say that the tilemaker lives or lived in Philadelphia,

282
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,680
Speaker 1: perhaps still does and because they were not only did

283
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,440
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia have the most concentration of tiles, and then

284
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,760
Speaker 1: it sort of spread from there Boston, d C. Maryland,

285
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,680
Speaker 1: New York again some sort of on a direct westward

286
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,760
Speaker 1: band out to Kansas City, like through Cincinnati, but never

287
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,400
Speaker 1: anything south. Um, there are in this one neighborhood where

288
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 1: they end up thinking they pinpointed the tilemaker. There are

289
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,800
Speaker 1: they found all these little test tiles all over the place.

290
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,320
Speaker 1: He's just a little bits of tile, little letters here

291
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,560
Speaker 1: and there, but the same script and the same technique.

292
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,760
Speaker 1: So uh, it was it's pretty obvious that this is

293
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,360
Speaker 1: where it originated. Yes, I mean that to me is like, well,

294
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:12,000
Speaker 1: there's there's your answer right there. So um. They they

295
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,440
Speaker 1: also like the people who were were reporting having their

296
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Speaker 1: TV interrupted by somebody driving down the street with their

297
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:24,119
Speaker 1: shortwave radio. That happened in Philadelphia, in the same neighborhood

298
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Speaker 1: where those test tiles were later found by the documentary investigators,

299
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,040
Speaker 1: and that wasn't a mystery, right They like they were like,

300
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 1: we know who that is. Stopped doing it. Yes, and

301
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,639
Speaker 1: that became clear once those investigators visited that neighborhood and

302
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,879
Speaker 1: started talking to neighbors. UM And one of the reasons

303
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,159
Speaker 1: they were able to think it was because the radio

304
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,480
Speaker 1: broadcast that was coming through their TVs from the guy

305
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,080
Speaker 1: driving down the street was talking about resurrecting the dead

306
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,680
Speaker 1: on Jupiter, an idea of Arnold Toynbee's that was depicted

307
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,280
Speaker 1: in two thousand one. So basically, this tilemaker got this

308
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,320
Speaker 1: idea starting about nine They've pinned down and was trying

309
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:03,640
Speaker 1: to figure out creative ways to spread this publicity um as.

310
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,399
Speaker 1: And one of the first ways that they tried to

311
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 1: do it was to turn to the press, and they

312
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,160
Speaker 1: called the Philadelphia Inquirer and tried to relate their um

313
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 1: their ideas to one of the journalists. They're a guy

314
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 1: named Clark day Leon and um in very much the

315
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,719
Speaker 1: same way that that they called Larry King three years before.

316
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,720
Speaker 1: Clark Day Leon took the call and then wrote up

317
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:31,520
Speaker 1: a very unflattering piece about the idea, and UM I

318
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,160
Speaker 1: think kind of set off that that disdain for the

319
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 1: media that the tilemaker displays in some of the additional tiles. Yes,

320
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 1: absolutely so, at some point there was a group formed

321
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 1: by the t m H called the Minority Association. Upon

322
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,560
Speaker 1: further investigation in this documentary, it seems that it was

323
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 1: not a group or an association at all. It was

324
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,880
Speaker 1: just this one person. Uh. And there are some little

325
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,760
Speaker 1: clues that will get too later on about that. Uh,

326
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:06,360
Speaker 1: But that was this group that was formed and there

327
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 1: were these radio broadcast where the tile maker would say,

328
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 1: I will send information if you want it, uh to

329
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:18,160
Speaker 1: anyone who wants it, and someone did because they had

330
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 1: this stuff twenty years later, all these materials sent from

331
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 1: the quote unquote Minority Association that uh, the the documentary

332
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 1: filmmakers eventually got their hands on, which was a big,

333
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 1: big find for them. Yeah, and it was really interesting,

334
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 1: like to watch it in the documentary how they managed

335
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,439
Speaker 1: to come across that. It was actually I was like,

336
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 1: this is this is some really weird filler that they're using.

337
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 1: And it finally like led to to finding these documents

338
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: and turning up them. You know, people who knew this

339
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: guy um back in the day. Um. But when they

340
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,440
Speaker 1: got these documents, that's when a lot of the questions

341
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 1: were filled in because um, it was that that minority

342
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 1: associations like press materials and it explained everything, like anything

343
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 1: you had a question about before was basically answered in

344
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 1: this and there was most of the documents were signed

345
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 1: by somebody named James Morosco, um, which, like you were saying, uh,

346
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 1: they believe now that the minority associate was was just

347
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 1: one person, the tilemaker, and that the tilemaker was using

348
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,160
Speaker 1: aliases to make it seem like they were more than

349
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: more people than just one and James Morosco was one

350
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 1: of those aliases. It just so happens there was a

351
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 1: James Morosco in Philadelphia who um seems to have had

352
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 1: nothing to do with this. It was just again an alias, right,

353
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: so that was a bit of a red herring. But

354
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 1: elsewhere in the document there was only one other name

355
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 1: mentioned and and you know these people, these these three

356
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 1: dudes basically that became um, I don't know about obsessed,

357
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 1: but it became like a fixation for them to solve

358
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 1: this mystery. And this was at the very beginnings of

359
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 1: the internet. Is when they started off, Like you know

360
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 1: that there was there was no information when they first

361
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 1: started looking on the internet about the toy Bee tiles. Yeah,

362
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: we should say their names because they really did some

363
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 1: good detective work Justin, Dr Steve Weinick, and Colin Smith,

364
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: the three investigators, and then John Foy made the documentary

365
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 1: and they all seem to have worked together for that. Yeah,

366
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 1: and this. These guys did not know each other previously.

367
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 1: They met online through their individual interest in the toy

368
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 1: Bee tiles and got together and seemingly became friends, you

369
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: know as they investigated this, which I think could have

370
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: they could have flushed out a little more in the documentary,

371
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: but that's fine human element to it. Sure. Well, yeah,

372
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 1: they seemed to really focus on Justin, Yeah, they did.

373
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: He seems to be the guy that sort of h

374
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: ran with it the most. But the only other name

375
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 1: in this minority association uh set of documents was Severino Verna,

376
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: a k a. Sev sev y Verna. And they tracked

377
00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 1: sevy Verna down um to this neighborhood and phil Ladelphia,

378
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 1: and they said, well, sevy Verna is the guy that

379
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 1: rode around in the car broadcasting these ideas. And they

380
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 1: were like, well, that's got to be him then, uh,

381
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 1: And they were like he was. He's a recluse. He

382
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: never you don't see him much. He does his shopping

383
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. Uh, there was this

384
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: incident where because all this stuff happened, Uh, some people

385
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: broke in, like held a knife to his throat, were like,

386
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: you know, because he was interrupting everyone's TV and all

387
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: that stuff, And especially after that, it seemed like he

388
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 1: became even more of a recluse. And they said, but

389
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 1: he had this old car with this huge antenna and

390
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 1: didn't have a passenger seat and had a big hole

391
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: on the floorboard, and it was just a mess. And

392
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: they're knocking on this guy's door in the documentary and

393
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: he's just not coming to the door. And in the meantime,

394
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: they're they're exploring these other side roads, uh, either figuring

395
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: out the deal with Morosco or there was another candidate

396
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 1: name was it Railroad Jim, which had a little bit

397
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: of I mean, I could see why they went down

398
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: that road, but it became pretty clear that it wasn't

399
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: Railroad Jim. Yeah. And then same with James Morosco. He

400
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: lived in Philadelphia at the time, but he died in

401
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: like I think two thousand three, and some of the tilemakers,

402
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: a lot of the tilemaker's tiles continued on after that time.

403
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,479
Speaker 1: That can be pointed as like, no, these are definitely

404
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: the original tilemakers tiles. Because one of the things that

405
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: clouds this mystery is there have been plenty of copycats.

406
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: Some of them are just kind of following up, like

407
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: picking up what the tilemakers laying down kind of thing.

408
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: Other people seem to be actually trying to actively confuse

409
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: people by making tiles that look as as much and

410
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: seem as much like the tilemaker's tiles. But these three

411
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: investigators among others, have gotten so good at examining the

412
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: tiles they can they can tell what's the tilemakers and

413
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: what's not, and have even pointed to like like change

414
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: like different periods. You know how artists like Picasso at

415
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: a blue period and all that, Like the tilemakers had

416
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: periods over the years, and some of them are so

417
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: different that it wasn't until years later that these investor

418
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: gets have gone back and been like, actually, that was

419
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 1: the tilemakers. We thought he stopped for a while and

420
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: this was a copycat. It was actually him all along.

421
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 1: So um, it definitely was not James Morosco. His widow says,

422
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: I have no idea what you guys are talking about

423
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: with Jupiter or two thousand one. My husband had nothing

424
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: to do with any tiles, please stop calling um. And

425
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 1: then same thing with Railroad Jim. He died and the

426
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: tiles continued on, So it couldn't have been him either.

427
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: So it definitely seems to be Severino verna Um and

428
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: that that's been He's There's just so many things that

429
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: that point to him. It's it's pretty much conclusive. Yeah,

430
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 1: And there was we also should mention beyond the regular

431
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: kind of license plate size tiles, there was one sort

432
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: of massive uh information dump, uh tile set of tiles

433
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 1: that just had a bunch of like I mean, you

434
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: can go online and read this one. It's really long. Uh.

435
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: They talked about a lot of things from there. Seems

436
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 1: to be an obsession with the Soviet Union, which you know,

437
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: during the Cold War, it sort of makes sense that

438
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: this might be a thing um the media. Again. The

439
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: tilemaker talks about the mafia breaking into his house to

440
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: kill him, which is probably a reference to the people

441
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood who broke in to threaten him. Uh.

442
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: And it's just sort of a long rambling uh info

443
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: dump that is. I think when you talk to these

444
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: three investigators or anyone that's in the twin be tiles.

445
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: They're like, this is the real sort of uh magna carta,

446
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: I guess of the tilemaker, and this this has the

447
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: most clues in it. Uh. And and I think we

448
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 1: also forgot to mention that the reason they even found

449
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: Verna was I think it was one in Brazil had

450
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 1: an actual street address in Philadelphia that turned out to

451
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: be Verna's address. Okay, I thought the address turned out

452
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: to be a dead end, but there was definitely one

453
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: of the earliest tiles. Maybe the earliest tiles were those

454
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: with the address in Philadelphia, so it turned out to

455
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: be his huh. Yeah, but I think that the only

456
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: place that was was on one tile in Brazil. Okay,

457
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: I got you. But so those were those were tiles

458
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: from the mid eighties, and they think that those tiles

459
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: were put down before even one started appearing in Philadelphia. Yeah,

460
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: and that's sort of like one of the mysteries of

461
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: the of the documentary is that they eventually talked to you, Uh,

462
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: Sevy's Verna's mom because he's not answering the phone or

463
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: the door, and she was like, it's it's Sevy doesn't

464
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: like travel. He's got a lung condition and he wouldn't

465
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: have traveled to South America or even outside of Philadelphia

466
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: really because of this condition. Yeah, that's a puzzler because

467
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: if you look at those tiles and the fact that

468
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 1: it's a Philadelphia address in the same neighborhood at least

469
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: as as um Sevy Verna like it's it's definitely one

470
00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: of Vernon's stiles. So what I guess? So for sure? Um,

471
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: And they also say, like, why South America. There's apparently

472
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: something in that book experienced by Arnold Toynbee. Um. It's

473
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: a bit of an autobiography as well, and he talks

474
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 1: about going to these places that these tiles appeared in

475
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: the eighties. So I guess it's possibly could have had

476
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 1: a proxy do it, right. But here's the thing, and

477
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: we'll leave you with this before our break. Uh, it

478
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: seems very much short Sevy. But no one has ever

479
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 1: seen this happen, these tiles that are embedded in the asphalt.

480
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: So the question for a long time remained still, how

481
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: was this happening without How are these hundreds and hundreds

482
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: of tiles getting embedded in the street without anyone ever

483
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: seeing this guy do it? Then we'll talk about that

484
00:28:44,640 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: right after this okay, Chuck, that was quite a cliffhanger, right, So,

485
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: no one's ever seen sevy Verna do this. No one's

486
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: ever seen anybody do this. Um, And it was thanks

487
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: to the Three Investigators, which, by the way, did you

488
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: ever read those Alfred Hitchcock books? The three Investigators. One

489
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: of them was like Hitchcock's nephew, and Hitchcock would make

490
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: a cameo every once in a while, but they would

491
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: remember what you're talking about. But I didn't read them,

492
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: kind of like a hardy boys type thing. They were great,

493
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: And every time I say three investators, I keep thinking

494
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: of that. It's very nostalgic for me. Um. There's like

495
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: a little portion of my brain that's really enjoying things

496
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: right now. Um. Not to say the rest of my

497
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: brain isn't, but it's enjoying it in a different way.

498
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: I think I did too. Um. But these three investigators,

499
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: I can't even remember what I was talking about. I

500
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: was talking about. We were talking about the fact that

501
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: he had never been found doing this. Oh yes, these

502
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: three investigators down how this actually happened, and then further

503
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: they pieced together how sevy Verna in particular would have

504
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,479
Speaker 1: done it. Too, and it's pretty ingenious. Yeah, so the

505
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: way they figured out how it was happening was a

506
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: near miss, which was the and this is crazy coincidence,

507
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: but the lead investigator, guy Justin, was in Philly looking

508
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: around doing investigating and a lot of this investigation at

509
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: the time was literally walking around city streets looking down

510
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: for these styles. It was like, you know, kind of

511
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: the hard way before the Internet was truly like filled

512
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: up with information about this, and there's some of the

513
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: first guys that filled the Internet with the stuff. But

514
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: he happened upon a fresh tile that had just been

515
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: laid down that he said was not there when he

516
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: passed by before, and he was like, it happened within

517
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: minutes of when I was there, And it's in the documentary.

518
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: It's pretty thrilling that this guy, like he starts yelling

519
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,479
Speaker 1: around and and saying that he's you know, I believe

520
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: then TOYNB ideas where are you come out? Come out?

521
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh my god, this guy is just

522
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: like almost solved the case. But what they found was

523
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: these tiles were and this is really pretty ingenious actually

524
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: how it's done. Uh, they use like asphalt crack filler

525
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: like this black tari stuff. And the key though, is

526
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: the tile is wrapped in roof paper tar paper, which

527
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: is black, so it's laid down and it just looks

528
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: black on top. And then over time this thing is

529
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: run over by cars and walked over and gets embedded

530
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: further and further, and eventually the tar paper just wears

531
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: a way to reveal the tile. Yeah, isn't that amazing.

532
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: It's amazing. So over the course of weeks, maybe even months,

533
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: as this is being pushed down and melting into the asphalt,

534
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: apparently I'm of the tiles where he instructs people on

535
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: making more tiles to do it themselves. He says, put

536
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: him lay him in the in the summertime so that

537
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: the sun will bake him into the asphalt. Um. But

538
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: he never provided any other really detailed destruction instructions aside

539
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: from that, and said use asphalt crack filler and then

540
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: that's it. So these guys managed to piece this together

541
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: from that that one tile, that fresh tile they found.

542
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: But even still the mystery remained on how they were

543
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: appearing in some really strange places like the middle of

544
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: the street, like a busy street, um, the middle of

545
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: a highway. Uh. The entrance of the hall and tunnel.

546
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: It would be like really dangerous for a person to

547
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: be squatting down like trying to install one of these tiles.

548
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: And they pieced together by something. One of the neighbors

549
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: told them that you had mentioned earlier that Sevy Verna

550
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: had a car that didn't have a passenger side seat

551
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: and that had no floorboard or a huge hole in

552
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: the floorboard. But they figured out once they found this

553
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: fresh tile, is that he might pull up to a stoplight,

554
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: might stop in the middle of the road, put his

555
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: hazards on, who knows, but he could lay down one

556
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: of these pre made tiles with asphalt filler crack filler

557
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: on the bottom and tar paper on top, smooth it

558
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: down and then drive off and just wait for it

559
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,959
Speaker 1: to be revealed, you know, over the coming weeks or months.

560
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: I this this is the part that I love more

561
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: than any other part of this whole mystery is the ingenious,

562
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: elegant yet simple way that this tilemaker would do this. Yeah,

563
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: I love it would just and didn't even necessarily have

564
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: to stop for too long. Like I get the impression

565
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: that this thing is tarred on the bottom such that

566
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: you can just kind of drop it there and it

567
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: will stay in place, drive over it with that back

568
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: tire and it's it's in there. Yeah, And the idea

569
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: that it's like slowly really it's protected until it's revealed,

570
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: like people walking on it, people having on it, not

571
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: paying any attention to it whatsoever, and then in doing

572
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: so they're actually helping UM anchor this this piece UM.

573
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: I just find that just just like Chef's kiss, you know.

574
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: And then the other part of it too is it's ephemeral,

575
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: like these things are made of linoleum, embedded in the

576
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: asphalt there, and they're being driven over there, being walked

577
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: over even after the tar papers gone. So they're not

578
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: meant to last very long. I saw like a lifespan

579
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: of usually about a year. And yeah, and that's him.

580
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 1: That's if the UM, if the like the road cruise

581
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: don't happen to be repaving that street in the meantime.

582
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: In some cities they actually go dig these things up

583
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: when they're reported in Chicago and New York do that,

584
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: But for the most part, they tend to just kind

585
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: of linger along until they slowly like kind of get

586
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: trashed and then are eventually repaved over. So it's an

587
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: ephemeral project as well that he's just constantly updating and

588
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: doing and has been since the mid eighties. Yeah, and

589
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: you get a sense of the real delight from the

590
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: people from these three guys and then just other people

591
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: in general of finding these and like it's almost like

592
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: a like a scavenger hunt, and then when they find them,

593
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: like then assessing and appreciating and reveling in its condition, like, oh,

594
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: this one's pretty new, it's still in pretty good shape.

595
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: Or look, they're only fragments of this one left. Um,

596
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: it's pretty neat. I mean, I'm going to New York

597
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: in two days for the first time in two years,

598
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: and uh, you can bet your bottom dollar I'm gonna

599
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: be trying to find one of these and get in

600
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: a picture. Well, you'll probably find there's a lot of

601
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: copycats these days. Some, like we said, are trying to

602
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: confuse the issue. Others are just kind of vibing on

603
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: the tilemaker's vibe. Um, the moment will be suckered by

604
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: any copycat. The most prolific is House of Hades. Um.

605
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: They don't seem to care at all about resurrecting the

606
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: dead on Jupiter, but they really like the idea of

607
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: like like um, reducing all media and journalists to ash um,

608
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: which is kind of a side thing. Like we said,

609
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: the Toynbee tilemaker is into UM, so there's you. There's

610
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: a good chance you will see some, but there's it's

611
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: not necessarily a tilemaker unless you actually go actively seek

612
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 1: them out. And you can find that on Toynbee idea. Yeah,

613
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 1: dot com or dot net whatever it is. Um, they

614
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: they have them like archives, so you could you could

615
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: go look for sure. Yeah, I mean that's I'm gonna cheat.

616
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: I'm not just gonna randomly walk around three days trying

617
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: to find tiles looking down the whole time. Yeah, I

618
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: got other stuff to do, but people to see. But um.

619
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: The other thing I want to mention too before we

620
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: close is just I found myself watching this documentary and

621
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: sort of exploring the idea of anonymity and how I

622
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: feel about that in a case like this where you

623
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: have someone who, uh, let's let's say this person is

624
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: has some sort of mental condition and this is their

625
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: outlet and uh, instead of you know, standing there with

626
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: a bullhorn on a street corner, this may be their

627
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: their messaging system. And like when I saw these guys

628
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: banging on the door, uh and making phone calls to

629
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: his mom. I was like, leave him alone. Yeah, yeah,

630
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: And they even talk about that, and they they're trying

631
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 1: to be respectful, but they do talk about the fact that,

632
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: you know, they think they saw someone upstairs clearly at home,

633
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: not answering the door. When it sort of hit them

634
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: that like, this person may be up there, really scared Uh.

635
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: When the documentary came out, there was a lull and

636
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: activity um from the tilemaker. So but then I thought,

637
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: you know, but then why are you going out and

638
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 1: putting these things all over the place and seemingly trying

639
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: to start a movement or attract attention? Although I don't

640
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: know about to start a movement because it's not like

641
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: that ever genuinely was the goal. I don't think. I

642
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: don't know. It didn't feel like it to me, because

643
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: it seems like if that would have been the case,

644
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: it would have been here's who I am and here's

645
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: where we'll meet. And uh, I don't know, I never

646
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: I'm not convinced that this person wanted other people involved.

647
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: What but that that's so imagine if you felt like

648
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: you were the only person who understood what God wanted

649
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,720
Speaker 1: science to do, and you were a recluse who could

650
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: not it was not at all comfortable interacting with other people.

651
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: What would you do, well, you would when when someone

652
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: came knocking in your door saying, hey, listen, I think

653
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 1: you're a great, brilliant thinker, and I believe in this movement.

654
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: I can help you get your word out. Then you

655
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 1: then you take them up on it. Like, it seems

656
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: like this person did not want to be discovered and

657
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: thus did not want to start a movement to be

658
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: at the center of Yes, I don't think that he

659
00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: wanted to be at the center of it. I think

660
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: he wanted this movement to start. Yeah, I don't know

661
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: if I agree with that. So one of the things

662
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: that that was in that um that press kit that

663
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 1: the the guy wrote off for in the early eighties

664
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: and still kept for like twenty or so years, it

665
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 1: says as the most unusual scientific movement in the USA,

666
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 1: the group wants the world to put all other affairs

667
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: aside in order to scientifically colonize the planet Jupiter. So

668
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: like if if if he believed that, and that's what

669
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: his genuine aim was, but he felt totally ill equipped

670
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: to actually publicize it himself, like making tiles and and

671
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: embedding them in a clever way and asphalt actually kind

672
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: of makes sense to me. See, I think that's the

673
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 1: final mystery. Is the purpose of this to begin with? Yeah, yeah,

674
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: if you take it on face value, then then he

675
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: was trying to make resurrection happen, knowing he couldn't do

676
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 1: it himself. He needed science to do it, but he

677
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: had to rouse everybody to do it on his half. Basically, yeah,

678
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: who knows, Maybe it is just the ongoing art project.

679
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: Who knows. I don't know. I think that's the mystery

680
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: will never solve. Uh. In the documentary there, it sort

681
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: of closes on an interesting thing where I think the

682
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: main guy tells the story of I think he was

683
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: it on a bus or something. He thinks they're on

684
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: a bus together, and it's sort of a mutual acknowledgement

685
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: and eye contact of I know who you are. You're

686
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 1: the guy that's been knocking on my door that did

687
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: the documentary, and I know that you're the tilemaker. Uh.

688
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: And there were but no words are exchanged, no, and

689
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: he's like he concludes, like I need to leave this

690
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: guy alone forever. He just like I just have to

691
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: accept it and move on that he doesn't want to

692
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: be a part of this. Yeah. Very interesting. Yeah. Um, well,

693
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: if you want to know more about the Toynbee tiles,

694
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: there is a lot on the internet that you can

695
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 1: read about it. You can watch Resurrect Dead. It was

696
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: pretty good documentary. Definitely worth four dollars um and uh,

697
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: since I said definitely worth were dollars this time for

698
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: a listener mail, I'm going to call this phantom kidney. Hey, guys,

699
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: you've been my go to for audio entertainment since twelve

700
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 1: when I was working to finish my forensic science graduate research.

701
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 1: I finally have something to email about though. Four years ago,

702
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: this may had donated a kidney to my friend's mom technically,

703
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: and my kidney went to someone else directly because we

704
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: were in the appaired exchange program, which I learned about

705
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: from you guys, and I actually experienced phantom kidney sensation.

706
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,720
Speaker 1: I know, right. Luckily, the phantom sensation was not painful,

707
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: but almost a weird specific awareness and feeling. I mean,

708
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: because who can actually feel their kidneys? Right? But it

709
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: was on the same side of the one that I

710
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: lost and lower back who knows it could have been

711
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: placebo because they warned me that it was possible. But

712
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: it was fascinating to learn of phantom organ pain firsthand

713
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: and from you guys. Just figured that was unique enough

714
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: and it's sort of a fun learning experience. If you

715
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to emphasize the Paired Exchange program, please

716
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 1: add it in again. Just by me jumping in to donate,

717
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: three transplants were able to be performed. While every donation

718
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: program was different, my experience was absolutely wonderful and I

719
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 1: would gladly do it again if I had another despair,

720
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,919
Speaker 1: and if anyone were interested in more information, I would

721
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: gladly share it with them. I love what you guys do.

722
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: It's been fun going through life alongside you both. That

723
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: is Mackenzie from Maine, currently in Pennsylvania with one kidney

724
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, definitely check out the Paired Kidney Exchange

725
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: program if that's something that you are able to do.

726
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: If you have a good, healthy kidney that you can

727
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: healthily donate, then someone would be glad to take it

728
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 1: off your hands. Emphasis added Also Mackenzie, I mean hats

729
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: off to you for doing that. That's an amazing thing

730
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 1: that you did, and you deserve to be canonized, so congratulations. Uh.

731
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 1: And if you want to be like Mackenzie and basically say, hey,

732
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: you want to hear about this cool thing I did,

733
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: you can send us an email, wrap it up, spank

734
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: it on the phantom kidney, and send it off to

735
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: Stuff Podcasts at i heart radio dot com. Stuff you

736
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: Should Know is a production of I heart Radio. For

737
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

738
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,