1 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: So the big question is this, how do investors like 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly, 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: the right people that give us the tools and information 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success. 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: That is the question, and this podcast will give us 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: this started. Welcome to another episode of the Market Disruptors podcast. 8 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: Today I am joined by Dan Tapierro, also known as 9 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 1: d tap Cap. He has kind of taken Twitter by 10 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 1: storm gained quite a large following. He has an old 11 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: school macro trader, big time gold guy, and of course 12 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: bitcoin guy, and so his experience that he brings to 13 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: the marketplace has been warmly received. And we sat down 14 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: and had a great conversation. We talked about the current 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: state of affairs, the government needing to print money, the 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: dollars rye is in strength, the dangers that that poses, 17 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: um the tools that they have to fight that, How 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: calling for the government's money printing and weekend of the 19 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: dollar fits into a goldbugs narrative, what that means in 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: the long term implications and so forth. A really really 21 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: good conversation. You're really gonna enjoy it. So let's go ahead, 22 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: just jump right into it. Everyone. Welcome to another episode 23 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: of the Market Disruptors podcast. I am here today with 24 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: Dan tapierro d tap Cap on Twitter. He's taken the 25 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: world by storm. Um, really really experienced macro trader. He's 26 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: the CEO managing partner of tin T Holdings, private equity 27 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 1: for amid the late stage companies digital assets. Also, he 28 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: has been the founder of gold boy On International gb I, 29 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: which is an institutional great physical precious metals platform. So 30 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: he's kind of got the the old precious metals and 31 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: the new digital assets kind of combined. It really really 32 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: good mind. So anyway, Dan, thank you for coming to 33 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: the show and welcome. Yeah, my pleasure, my pleasure. I'm 34 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad we're finally get in touch after a 35 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: few of our sort of Twitter back and forth. Yeah, so, um, 36 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: you were just kind of filling us in on some 37 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: of your background, which is great. How you got here. 38 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,239 Speaker 1: I love I love your background, the perspective that you bring. 39 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 1: I did history and philosophy, and you know, people say, well, 40 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: how did you ever get into because my my first 41 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: job after school, I was at a broker for six 42 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: months and then I went to work for Tiger and 43 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: Julian Robertson and they're like, well, how did you ever 44 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: get into that from history? And I'm like, well, look, 45 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: history is an analytical process. You read twenty books and 46 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: you come up with the thesis, and it's the same 47 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: thing here. You read twenty different things and you come 48 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: up with a thesis and then you place your bets. 49 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: So that was the first video that I did was 50 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: with Raoul Um because he had gotten me sort of 51 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: very sensitive to bitcoin in two thousand thirteen and he 52 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: used to have these around tables where subscribers his news better. 53 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: We'd go down to the Caymans or wherever he was, 54 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: you know, fifteen guys and we present our favorite idea. 55 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: And the conference in two thousand and thirteen, we believe 56 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: it or not, were many of the guys proposed bitcoin 57 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 1: as their favorite trade. And so some of the guys 58 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: are guys who are well known now um as being 59 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: you know, prominent guys into space, and so that got 60 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: me thinking. And he took a position. It was like 61 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: a two or three hundred, and he was adamant and 62 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: he laid out the twenty page reasoning and it was 63 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: way way early and then my Gold company. In two 64 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: thousand and fourteen, we became we integrated with another firm 65 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: called bit Reserve, which is today Uphold, the Uphold wallet, 66 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: and we became the first place where you could buy 67 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: and sell physical goal to buy and sell bitcoin and 68 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: ripple and so that sort of pulled me in more. 69 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: And I was constantly, you know, in conversation with Raoul 70 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: about Macro at cetera, etcetera. Um. But it wasn't until 71 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: Q one nineteen that I sort of fell into the 72 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: uh rabbit hole. So anyway, that that was the that 73 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: was this. I'd never used Twitter before, and Rohol says 74 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: to me, give us your Twitter handle and I said, well, 75 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: I had some account that i'd set up and I'd 76 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: never use I didn't even know how to use it. 77 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: And then after that interview that that it went sort 78 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: of viral on YouTube, and I think that I was 79 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: had like an hundred and seventy thousand views or something. Um. 80 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: But it's just like all of a sudden, there were 81 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: thousands of people like asking me questions and all this, 82 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: and I said, look, this is a new medium. I'm 83 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: late to things because I'm an old time Macro guy. Well, 84 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: let's try this. And I started tweeting something out like 85 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: once a week and then like once a day. Just 86 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: always gold or big coin or macro. No politics, No, Like, 87 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: I don't I don't like all the emotional intensity that 88 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: people get on. Maybe people like that about Twitter, but 89 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: it like this is a great medium for debate with 90 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: smart people out there. It's great, it's wonderful. And I uh, 91 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: you know, I just I just I don't I like 92 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: that you have a blocking function because there's some people. 93 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,239 Speaker 1: I mean, I just you know, they have their own issues. 94 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: They bring a whole you know, they bring the way 95 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: to the world with them into this thing, and I just, uh, yeah, 96 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: it's hard to get to the root of things. Unfortunately, 97 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: it's difficult to um separate money and politics right now, 98 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: right the government is so entwined with everything. So I'm 99 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: like you, I really try to stick to like data 100 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: and facts and not get into assumptions and opinions. Um. 101 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: But and yeah, trying to stay away from politics because 102 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: it's so divisive. But man, there's just such an intersection 103 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: and it's not it's not it's not really the way 104 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: I see it. Kind of like bitcoin and gold are 105 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: fighting the same fight. Um, politics isn't like right or left, 106 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: Democrat Republican. It's more like us versus them almost right. Uh, 107 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: whichever party is in office, they're still gonna be spending 108 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: money and you know, going into deficits and all these things. So, um, 109 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 1: it's not really about party affiliation, but it's about government ideologies. 110 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: I love the quote Mike Tyson said that everyone has 111 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: a plan until they get punched in the face. And uh, 112 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: you know, having been around the block and having that perspective, 113 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: you've kind of seen what it looks like getting punched 114 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: in the face. And now we're going through this super 115 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: interesting time with you know, the virus basically causing the 116 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: economy to hit a brick wall, right, going from a 117 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: hundred to zero and zero seconds. Yeah, and now you 118 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: know we're reacting to that and not getting into that specifically, 119 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: but just what the markets doing. Um, the market shutting 120 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: down and the FEDS announcing massive stimulus, and I know 121 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: you've been talking about that quite a bit. What are 122 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: your just kind of overall thoughts on that. Well, Um, yeah, 123 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: I think that the FED and the federal government have 124 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: done the right thing here. Um. You know, you can 125 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 1: get into a philosophical debate about you know, whether that's 126 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: morally correct, whether government intervention is right, whether you know, 127 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,239 Speaker 1: an active uh debasement of the currency as many people 128 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: are you know are calling it. I mean they think 129 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: about all this dollar liquidity eventually leads to something horrific 130 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: um down the line in terms of a deficit. Look, 131 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: I think the bottom line is the markets uh froze 132 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: and um, we had a we had two things that 133 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: almost hit us at once, almost like being attacked, I 134 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: would say, um, the virus, but then also not being 135 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: discussed as much as this breakup of the oil cartel. 136 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: Oil is down seventy from its high in January. If 137 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: that had happened just alone, without the virus, we would 138 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,239 Speaker 1: have definitely felt um some of the similar type things. 139 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: Maybe the market wouldn't have corrected as much as quickly, 140 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: but we definitely would have hit us major deflationary shock. 141 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: Um that you know oddly comes at the exact same 142 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: time that the virus started to really impact here. So 143 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: you got to think about like the Russians, you know 144 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: what exactly. I mean, it kind of feels like the 145 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: timing was so perfect. I don't know whether they were 146 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: in a sense out to get us with that. But 147 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: it certainly felt like that. And I don't want to 148 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: get into that so much, and uh, you know, uh 149 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory type things, but it's certainly something that timing. 150 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: Uh you know, I see it thing with me. Yeah, 151 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: I mean, and it's the worst weekend and then all 152 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: of a sudden that whole thing breaks out. Anyway, the 153 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: point is that we were hit with a double shock, 154 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: and we've got the fastest shutdown, total shutdown of the 155 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: economy in the history of the country. Uh. You know, 156 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: as we've seen now from the unemployment claims that came 157 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: out this morning. I know, the restaurant data is all 158 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: over you know Twitter, where you know you went from 159 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: zero to minus sent in two weeks. And so that 160 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: to me is what I would call a non the virus, 161 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: non economic exogenous shock. And right and and right, and 162 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: central banks were invented basically to lean against exogenous shocks. 163 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 1: I'm invented, but that's in that's the main purpose. And 164 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: so you know, thankfully um Powell came out and said 165 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: unlimited and then today we have the e c B 166 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: with their PEP program and everyone around the world. Bank 167 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: of Japan, I think a few days ago was the 168 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: one who put the low end the stocks. US stock 169 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: market was on the low, and then I think it 170 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: looked like the B O J came in and started 171 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: buying Japanese stocks and that was the absolute low. And look, 172 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: all this intervention, uh, in a perfect world is obviously bad. 173 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: We don't want that kind of intervention in the markets. 174 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: We want markets to trade freely. But when a once 175 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: in a hundred year plus type of event hits and 176 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: everything freezes, and I've sent out you know pictures of uh, 177 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: the Muni market having it's like a spike above the 178 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: O eight wides within a week. I mean, this is 179 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: much worse than the O A panic. It's much you 180 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: know that we had oh seven O eight. It seemed 181 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: like it happened quickly. We had, you know, months and 182 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: months of that in two thousand oh three. You know, 183 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: that was three years of recovery from the nasdak Um collapse. 184 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: And so to have this happen in two weeks and 185 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: for people to say, well, you know, the FED, we 186 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: don't you know this. They shouldn't be coming in like this, 187 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: and the government is giving away money, you know, look, uh, 188 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: those are all better options than having the system completely frozen. 189 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: That doesn't benefit anybody. So let's let's let's dig into 190 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: that for just a second. Um. And I know you 191 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: and I had had exchanged a couple of words about 192 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: you know, the old kicking the can down the road, 193 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: so to speak. Right, So you know, since nineteen really 194 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: seventy one, whatever you want to look at, right, we've 195 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: just had this expansion of the monetary system, and it 196 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: seems like, you know, eight seven, two thousand, two thousand 197 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: and eight, two thousand eleven, the economy keeps trying to 198 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: deflate and then the FED keeps propping it back up. Um. 199 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: And we've seen this expansion of the of the Fed's 200 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 1: balance sheet and it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. 201 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: So two thousand and eight would have been catastrophic, it 202 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: was too big to fail. But today it's even worse. 203 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: And doesn't it just get worse next time? Yeah, I 204 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: I I hear you, And I think that's Um, that's 205 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: a question. That's a big picture, structural question. UM. And 206 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: you could I could respond by saying, well, that's right, 207 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: and that's why bigcoin was invented in oh eight, that's 208 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: why bigcoin today, Um, you know, has the greatest time 209 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: year track record of any asset in the history of 210 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: the world. UM. You know, we're only at a hundred 211 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: and twenty billion market cap and so unfortunately, UM, I 212 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 1: don't think it's big enough to serve as an alternative 213 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: to the existing system today. But it shows you that 214 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: UM that UM, there there is something out there that 215 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: exists unto itself. UM that is growing. UM. And and 216 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: you know we have the alternative the other projects or cryptocurrencies, 217 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: We've got companies, we have a whole ecosystem that's growing 218 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: up now around the adoption of bitcoin, UH and digital 219 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: assets more generally. And maybe the answer to your question 220 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: is is that the next time around, UH, this ecosystem, 221 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: instead of being called it three billion in total, is 222 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: three to four trillion, or maybe be five to six 223 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: trillion UM. So I do agree, we can't just keep 224 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: doing this indefinitely. UM. However, UH you know, if I think, 225 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: if if you think that it started in eighty seven 226 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: with green Span opening, the green Span put and then 227 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: again two thousand lowering interest rates to offset the nasdac 228 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: um collapse again O seven O eight, UM, kicking the 229 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: can down the road. If you think about it. You know, 230 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: we've had a lot of progress as a as a culture. 231 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: The world has progressed tremendously from so we've kicked the 232 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: can down the road in a sense. But look at 233 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 1: look at all the great things that have happened. I mean, 234 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: look at this. This couldn't have happened in seven I 235 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: mean me talking with you on a a zoom and 236 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: so I want to say that, like, you know, yes, 237 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: the liability side of the balance sheet goes up, but 238 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: don't forget about the assets side of the balance sheet. 239 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: And I think world well being, if I had to 240 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: quantify it that way, has improved dramatically in the last 241 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: thirty years, and maybe more dramatically than ever in the 242 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: history of the world, given you know, communist countries that 243 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: were really suffering are now major capitalist countries. I grew 244 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: up you know with uh, you know, deep in the 245 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: Cold War. A lot of guys my age remember every 246 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: single morning waking up as a kid and thinking, oh, 247 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: that's good, we didn't get nooked overnight. Um, you know, 248 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: that was a true fear. I don't know if you 249 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: had that, but it was. Well. I'm a I'm a 250 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: little younger, I'm forty five. But I did grow up 251 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: in that era, and I do remember, you know, the 252 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: Berlin Wall and thinking, oh my gosh, what if I 253 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: was spending a night at my friend's house and they 254 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: put the wall up overnight and I was on the 255 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: wrong side. And I so I did grow up in 256 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: that area a little a little bit younger. But I 257 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: see what you're saying, and I definitely agree with you. 258 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: And I believe, you know, personally, that being being grateful, 259 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: looking at gratitude as the best way to be happy 260 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: in life. And we focus on what we have, not 261 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: what we don't have. And so I see what I 262 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: see your argument, like, look what has happened because we've 263 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: done that, or maybe it's done that in spite of 264 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: all that, we don't know. Um. I guess we could 265 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: sit there and philosophize about that all day. But I'm 266 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: just curious because, um, you know, I kind of told 267 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: you earlier, like I really got into into gold really 268 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: big in two thousand and eight, and it was, um, 269 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: you know, coming off of this gold standard is what's 270 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: caused all these problems and we need to go back 271 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: to a sound money. Um. But it seems like you're 272 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: the gold guy but maybe you think that there's some 273 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: sort of like two different ecosystems and maybe there is 274 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: one that that's okay to keep inflating money. UM. But 275 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: also gold is maybe just an alternative to that, but 276 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: not like the main system. Yeah, it's a it's a 277 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: great question. I mean, I I see, you know thought 278 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: a lot about this. I mean a lot of people don't, UM, 279 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: especially a lot of people with the markets who tend 280 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: to be just long only equity people, even amongst the 281 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: hedge fund crowd, a lot of them are basically just 282 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: long only. But yeah, I UM, question is, you know, 283 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: is it feasible to go to a hard money global 284 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: hard money standard backed by gold tomorrow? Um? Probably not No. 285 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: And again gold is a tent trillion dollar market. UM. 286 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: You know, the if you look at what world g 287 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: d P is and world wealth and world equity markets, 288 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: you add those up, it's hundreds of trillions of dollars. 289 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: We would have to to peg anything to gold at 290 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: a one to one ratio as an example, UM, we'd 291 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: have to deflate all those assets if you wanted to 292 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: do it like a one to a hundred so that 293 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: you know, um, and and set the system at at 294 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: that UM, one dollar, you know, a hundred dollars equals 295 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: one dollar gold kind of thing. If you were to 296 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: add to zeros, that would make gold. Uh I guess 297 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: you know a thousand billion or what what's after a trillion? Well, 298 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: you would just take all the currency in the world, 299 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: and you take all the gold in the world, and 300 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: you'd have to come up with a new number. And 301 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: if that's ten ten percent back or backed, it is 302 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: what it is. Right, So now gold is revalued at 303 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: ten thousand or a hundred thousand or one million or 304 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: whatever it is, right, Yeah, yeah, I mean I I 305 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: you know, the process. Uh. That kind of thing, if 306 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: it were ever to happen, would only happen after an 307 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: extreme crisis where basically everyone had no other option. Um. 308 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: And I actually don't even think that would necessarily be 309 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: the right thing. I mean, remember, in this country, we've 310 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: had our focus has been to avoid having another great depression. UM. 311 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: In Germany, as an example, their entire focus has been 312 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: to avoid having uh a ymr um repeat that. The 313 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 1: that the Ymar episode of the rights marks going to 314 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: billions of being worthless. Um. You know defined their policy 315 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: uh there um. The thrust of their policy for for 316 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: many years. And but but isn't what I'm sorry, isn't 317 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: what created that Weimar situation was the printing of money. 318 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: But but let's let's put that to the side for 319 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: a second, just for saying, I'll connect there. But so 320 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: for us, the defining event was, you know, the number 321 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: one avoiding a depression. Also number two, UM, avoiding a 322 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: seventies style inflation. I think that's sort of more both 323 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,719 Speaker 1: those two events. I know that they're very different, but um, 324 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: and so each of these episodes, the Greenspan UH in 325 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: eight seven and then in in two thousands, all of 326 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: these things. And Nankee, of course we know study the depression, UM, 327 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: the expansion of the UH money supply and the and 328 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: the central bank balance sheet has been in that sense 329 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: to avoid that. And we have avoided that. And I 330 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: think we've realized, at least in policy circles, that it's 331 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: more that the tradeoff is better. It is better to 332 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: risk having a period where we might have some more 333 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: inflation or we might have a weaker dollar. Okay, because firstly, 334 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: this is an equity culture here anyway, no one really 335 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: cares where the dollar is. If you ask that your 336 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: average guy, he knows where the Tao is maybe or 337 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: within roughly where it is or where it was on 338 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: his last statement, but he has no idea where the 339 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: dollar is, and certainly against which currencies in a basket 340 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: you don't know. And so it sort of makes sense 341 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 1: in a way for us to sacrifice the dollar if 342 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: we need to. But but look what's happened even in 343 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: this episode. We've done the biggest stimulus in the history 344 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: of the world just now, and the dollar is near 345 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: the high and I think, um, that lets the that 346 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: that tells the Fed that they can get away with 347 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: a lot, that the world is still deflating. And and 348 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: so what I've been saying in Twitter that you referenced 349 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: before was that, well, you know, the strong dollar, or 350 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: I would call it the overly strong dollar is bad 351 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: right here. We know that. We know that, um that 352 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: there's been a shortage of dollars, and the oil collapse 353 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,239 Speaker 1: has something to do with that. But um, we know 354 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: when policy is working when this dollar liquidity comes to 355 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: an end. And I think the dollar is softening here. 356 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: It's not a negative event. It's not Wimar, it's not 357 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: you know, I think the dollar can go down, uh 358 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: and be a very positive thing. If it goes down 359 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: seventy in a short period of time, that's a disaster. 360 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: Maybe you can, maybe you can just explain a little 361 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: bit why you think, um, having such a strong dollar 362 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 1: is bad or not just you think, but I mean 363 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 1: why why is it? For people that don't really understand 364 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: what that means, well, it's deflationary, um, you know, if 365 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: there are many there are many different reasons. But the 366 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: strong dollar for me, in my framework, reflects an overly 367 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: tight policy. So um. As an example, the Fed, what 368 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: was it a week ago now or two weeks ago? 369 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: Cut the FED funds rate to zero? All right? Ordinarily, 370 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: in any normal framework global macro framework, you would think 371 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: that when a central bank, especially the most important one, 372 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: cuts interest rates from by one percentage point to zero, okay, 373 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: you would think that that would weaken the currency, right 374 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: because the interest rates are less supportive of that currency, 375 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: most likely versus other currencies. But that wasn't the case. 376 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: They cut it to zero and the dollar continued to rally, 377 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: which is a super dangerous situation. That was telling the Fed, 378 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: oh my goodness, our policy actions aren't easy enough. But 379 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: why is that dangerous? Because it's a reflection of type policy, Right, 380 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: what's that you were having because we were having a 381 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: collapse in the stock markets, we were having a massive 382 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: down shift in economic growth, and to offset that, and 383 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: this is completely normal, the central bank usually needs to 384 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: ease liquidity a little bit. The fact that growth expectations 385 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: were collapsing, the stock market was collapsing, and we tried 386 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: to ease policy, but the dollar was telling you it 387 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: wasn't working. That's very dangerous, right, does that? Does that? 388 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: You see when you ease policy to a degree that 389 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: is much greater than the markets had been expecting before, 390 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: and it doesn't help offset the tightness in liquidity. That's 391 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: the sign that they had much more room to go 392 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: to ease, right. And the fact that and the fact 393 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: that they um uh, the fact that uh uh. And 394 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: I think that's what eventually led to this unlimited policy 395 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: was they cut to zero and they thought, Okay, well 396 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: that should be enough. Dollar keeps strengthening. They're like, oh, 397 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: my goodness, that isn't enough. It should Uh. The markets 398 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: are tightening. They're doing the opposite of what we want, right, 399 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: And so then that created then another leg of panic, 400 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: and you had the freezing up in in the credit 401 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: markets afterwards, Right then they realize, oh my goodness, we 402 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: really we really have to go unlimited. And I think 403 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: that's you know, that's something that is um, that is uh, 404 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I think that is something that's that that 405 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,719 Speaker 1: that people in the gold market, for instance, have been 406 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: waiting for for years in terms of being a catalyst 407 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: for the next move in a great gold bull market. Right, 408 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: we could we could spend a lot of time just 409 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: in that conversation because I have so many more questions, 410 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 1: but um, I want to I want to kind of 411 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: get through some more things here. Um. So you know, 412 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: there's the dollars strengthening, they're trying to weaken it. Um. 413 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: You know one second, one second, I don't think that. 414 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: I don't think they're trying to weaken it now. And 415 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,479 Speaker 1: what I was trying to say on Twitter also was 416 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: that if if the situation continues to be dire, okay, 417 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: the market's frozen as of last week, and they had 418 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: after cutting to zero, the market still frozen, okay, Um 419 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,199 Speaker 1: that in their back pocket they have the ability to 420 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: weaken the currency. One of the reasons that the Treasury 421 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,239 Speaker 1: does one of the reasons that I think we're going 422 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: to be okay, is that we still have that in 423 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: our back pocket. Atten, let's say, intervention or weakening of 424 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: the currency can be used as policy. I'm not saying 425 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 1: we need to do it now, I'm not saying that 426 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 1: we should do it, but we can do it if 427 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: we need to if markets freeze up again. So that's 428 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: all lines that. That was really my my my point, right, 429 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: So interrupt there. Yeah, yeah, no, no, I appreciate you 430 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: making that point. Um, But I, like I said, we 431 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: could we could sit there and just talk about that specifically, 432 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: but I want to kind of get back to golden bitcoin. 433 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: And so I had heard you say recently that you 434 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: know bitcoin angle now it's starting to kind of have 435 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: this narrative where people are starting to see it as 436 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: a proxy for cash. Well, hey, if cash is earning 437 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: zero and they're just trying to weaken it, and I 438 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: don't know if it's getting stronger or weaker, who knows, 439 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: Why don't I just go if I'm getting zero there 440 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 1: when I go to something else that's zero, that could 441 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 1: be less volatile, safe or whatever, and that opens up 442 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: the door to gold and maybe bitcoin is that kind 443 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 1: of what you're thinking? That is absolutely right, and I 444 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: think that UM having cash at zero, but also government bonds, 445 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: which I see is cash plus duration US government bonds UM. 446 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: I think that it is the bonds as a productive 447 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: asset class. And I think if if there's anything and 448 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: I was talking about that a few weeks ago, UM, 449 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: and this has been I think it's a new narrative. UM. 450 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: You know, if you're an institutional or ultra let's say, 451 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: high net worth of portfolio, or just any larger portfolio, 452 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: and you have a traditional or retail seventy thirty portfolio, 453 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: UH seventy equity thirty bonds UM. Over the last thirty years, 454 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 1: during those weakening periods where we've had slower growth, the 455 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: bonds have bailed you out. You've you've made capital appreciation 456 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: to offset your equity losses. I think that's over now 457 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: because I don't believe that uh, you know, two year 458 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,959 Speaker 1: notes at thirty basis points or ten years at seventy 459 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: eight basis points, they are gonna have a very hard 460 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: time dropping below zero. And so the hedge portion of 461 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: everyone's portfolios aren't really going to work in a slower growth, 462 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: are it? UM? And even though I see us recovering 463 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: from this sharp snap down um within a few months 464 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: and growth getting much better. Um, it's still gonna be slower. 465 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: I mean, we could have a massive snap back, but 466 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: then it's gonna be slower. It's not gonna be um 467 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: um and in that period, and it'll still be I 468 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: think at a low inflation rate. And so I don't 469 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: I don't see those treasuries in people's portfolios performing the 470 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 1: function that they have for years. And I think gold 471 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,719 Speaker 1: um in a slower period where the authorities are pumping 472 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: in huge amounts of liquidity, has no cap to the upside. 473 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: And so I think will be a better hedge in 474 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 1: a portfolio than your traditionally, than your than the bonds 475 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: have been traditionally. And Bitcoin, I think is is something 476 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: that has the ability to go up many many multiples 477 00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: more uh than gold. But you know, bitcoin has many 478 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: different fundamentals that are are driving it. And I think 479 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: this little one here where it's connected to gold and 480 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: connected you know, an accent theory a little bit as 481 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: a hedge for the existing system. That's just one little thing. Um. 482 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: You know, I think gold can probably double over the 483 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: next two years, but bigcoin can go up twenty times 484 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: or thirty times. Sure, it seems like the response to 485 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 1: these like just going back to two thousand eight, um, 486 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: you know, golden the stock market crashed at the same time. However, 487 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: gold only dropped the half of what the market did. 488 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: But then it was the Fed's response of weakening, easing printing, etcetera. 489 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: That then those things seemed to seemed to push gold up. 490 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: And I mean it went from what six six something 491 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: six eighty to almost two thousand. Yeah, and so it's 492 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: kind of response which we're seeing again now the response 493 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: they're having weakening printing is then again what pushes the 494 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: fundamentals for bitcoin or gold. I mean, if we saw 495 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: a move like two thous and eight that could put 496 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: gold to you know, bucks almost five thousand bucks um, 497 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: a move like we had in two thousand eight to 498 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, hypothetically, Yeah, I could argue that there's 499 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: actually much much more stimulus that's gonna hit the system now, right, 500 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: you could you could argue that. So I think that's 501 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: not a that's not crazy. Right. We had the uh 502 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: liquidation in knowing from eight hundred to six hundred, right, 503 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: that was sort of what we have from six eight 504 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: to what four hundred? Just last week or something. So 505 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: I think your your your framework is the exact right one. Yeah. 506 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: And but but just the fact that it was the 507 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: fundamentals of what the response is is then what drives that. Um. Also, 508 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: you know what's interesting is it just seems like not 509 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: just the US, but all the world is trying to 510 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: weaken their currency. It's kind of like this race to 511 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: the bottom, if you will. So it's like the whole 512 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: world is now kind of looking for that lifeboat almost 513 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: in a sense. Um, then we see the d I 514 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: C come out and make this announcement everything is safe, 515 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: don't worry, and that, of course causes people to worry. 516 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: What was that about? You know, why would they who 517 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: possibly thought that up? I mean, why would they ever 518 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: do that? I Uh, there's a little in a reference 519 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: to a movie. It was a Tom Cruise and Cameron 520 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: Diaz a night and day and he's like this CIA 521 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: operative or whatever, and he says, look, some some guys 522 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: are gonna get you with suits talking about the CIA. 523 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: Guys are gonna crab if they keep telling you you're safe. 524 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm gonna be okay. He's like, you gotta 525 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: get out, And that's what I mean. Think So Um, 526 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: they're pushing those now. I think there's additional things that 527 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: we're seeing. So the virus is also causing, um, if 528 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: you will, maybe a step on on liberties things like that. 529 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: Um So, I think that also has maybe more narrative 530 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: to push gold a little bit, but maybe bitcoin as well. 531 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: UM So, I think there's a lot of things things 532 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: that are happening there where people are going to want 533 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: that lifeboat. UM. I'm curious though, what you think? Um, 534 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, like what comes next? Right? So they're gonna 535 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,479 Speaker 1: print at this point ten trillion, you know. I think 536 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: I think we could be trillion. You know before we 537 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: get out of this. We're already at negative zero zero rates. 538 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: So I mean, what's next? I mean, do we see 539 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: negative rates? You said they have another of room there. Um, 540 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: the whole world is trying to do the same thing. Um, 541 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: I guess. So I'm I'm wondering what you think is 542 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: next because we have massive deflation. Trillions of dollars of 543 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: debt is being defaulted on and that's deflating super fast 544 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:43,959 Speaker 1: or trying to pump it back up as fast as 545 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: they can, is it. I think goldbugs are always looking 546 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: at well, we're gonna have inflation first, which is good. 547 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: Some people say no, it's deflation, which is bad for 548 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: gold UM. Or then we have Japan and go, well, 549 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: maybe shoot, maybe it's stagflation. Yeah. Uh, you know it's uh, 550 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: you know it's UH. I hate to put things into 551 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: a box and define things specifically UH in those terms. 552 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: I mean even the term UH inflation just means so 553 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: many different things that it almost confuses, confuses UM the 554 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: message UH. And so what I would say is that 555 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: in a world that is deflationary, and whether it's because 556 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: China has added six hundred million people to the global 557 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: workforce in the last you know, twenty five years, or 558 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: whether it's because technology UM and amazon ification, all of 559 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: that stuff is putting tremendous pressure UM. Whatever the reasons are, 560 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: there's been many papers for this for structural deflation. UM. 561 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: You can you can inflate UH in an unlimited way 562 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: without I would say, without severe or consequences in a 563 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: deflating world UM. And I think that's what the message 564 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: has been, and that's why we've taken advantage of this 565 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: UM this time. And if UM, if the authorities and 566 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: the FED thought that doing for truly in an unlimited 567 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: would lead to a rapid inflation of call it ten 568 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: like we saw in the seventies. They probably would not 569 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: do it. Um. But what this all leads to, I mean, 570 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: at some point in the future obviously, is some sort 571 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: of inflation. It is and it And we've had people say, well, 572 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: we've had an inflation in um, you know, in art, 573 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: high end art, and in the stock market and all 574 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: high end autos and all sorts of things. It's just right, 575 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: it hasn't shown up in certain things. We haven't really 576 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: had an inflation in gold. UM. And I think that 577 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: I think that that's um. Those are specific cases, those 578 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: aren't that's not a generalized inflation. UM. But you are 579 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: right that the obvious conclusion, uh is that at some point, 580 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: if every single central bank is out there, Uh, let's 581 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 1: say that this whole thing has been just a panic 582 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: and they're only gonna be ten thousand, twenty thousand people 583 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: who die, thirty thousand people who died globally, that we've 584 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: shut the entire world down to zero for something. I mean, look, 585 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty nine thousand people die every single 586 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,760 Speaker 1: day just because of things that happened in the world. 587 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 1: And so in theory It could be that this has 588 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: been a panic and that it resolves in two or 589 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: three months and everything is fine again in terms of 590 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 1: people's health. UM will have added a huge amount of 591 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: liquidity to a system that could be super robust UM 592 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: and it might be so robust that the supply side 593 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: is not able to keep up with it. Now, look, 594 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: that is definitely a scenario, um, that it's more short term. 595 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: But I just want to say, to address your question 596 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,760 Speaker 1: a bit, is that in the more medium term, yes, 597 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: all this stuff should mean we get some sort of 598 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: generalized inflation, but that has not been the case thirty years, right, 599 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: And so what happens is the authorities know that, so 600 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: we can push and press against that until we have 601 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: this problem, and then we we can always raise rates. 602 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: Now saying well, then that might lead to a stag inflation. 603 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: It might. I don't know. Um, I think that I'm 604 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, I'm a little bit. I work a little 605 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: bit with that framework that we must do everything to 606 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:48,479 Speaker 1: avoid complete stoppage or a depression scenario. So I would 607 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: be even though I am a hard money guy, a 608 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: gold guy bitcoin, I also believe that the existing system 609 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: needs to continue to function. I don't think that we 610 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: switch over to another system overnight. I don't believe in that. 611 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: I think that would be calamitous. You can see there's 612 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: a transition we had. You know, waight, no one ever 613 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: heard of bitcoin. Now you have a whole world developing 614 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:17,959 Speaker 1: around bitcoin, and gradually as generation changes, as time goes by. Um, 615 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: you know, maybe we get full scale adoption at some 616 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: point of greater usage. Um. And we might get it 617 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: for other reasons that aren't necessarily tied to the macro. 618 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: I mean, as as I've said, I think it's the 619 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: greatest security system ever built, and it's not replicat heble 620 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:43,760 Speaker 1: um uh invention, I think, and has many many many 621 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: uses and um um, So I don't I don't need 622 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 1: to have a super long term view about Okay, what 623 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 1: are the repercussions of this action now? Right? Do? I 624 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: just s that it leads to an inflation and position 625 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: that way. No, the dollar is telling me it's still strong. 626 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,280 Speaker 1: It's telling me that what we've done is not inflationary. 627 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: All right. If the dollar dropped this week, I would 628 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:22,760 Speaker 1: have been like, whoa, that's uh, that's crazy. We really 629 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: gassed it. But even with all this gas, we still 630 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: it's still near the hives. That's my that's my temperature gauge. 631 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: But but so you are, you are a macro trader investor, right, 632 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: so you do look at these events to try to, 633 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: as Wayne Gretzky says, skate to where the puck is 634 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,919 Speaker 1: going to be right. And I understand it's not about predictions. 635 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: It's about probabilities. If this happens, then this. But if 636 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: this happens, then this. So I get that and I 637 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: live in that world too. I hate trying to be 638 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: nailed down on predictions because we don't know. But I'm 639 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 1: ready for whatever may come. Yea. Um, that being said, 640 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: being a longtime macro guy, Um, where do you um 641 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: see this going? I guess? And not where do where 642 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: do you see it going? But where do you think 643 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: the opportunities are? Where should people be looking in the short, medium, 644 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,760 Speaker 1: long term? You think based off of what we're seeing 645 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: right now? Yeah, I mean look, I and you said it, 646 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: uh you know it was your hundred call on the 647 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: on the gold Uh I said it, Yeah you did. 648 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: And I think that's that's very possible. I think that 649 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: the world is set up for that. And I mentioned 650 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: government bonds not not uh you know, maybe losing a 651 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: little bit of it's the status as a as a 652 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 1: as a hedge asset, as an important part of the portfolio. 653 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: I think, you know, gold has a has a real 654 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:55,240 Speaker 1: place to play there and it hasn't I mean, my my, um, 655 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, UM, I think in the institutional money management world, 656 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 1: goal old has not really been considered an asset in 657 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 1: the way that equities or bonds are, credit um are 658 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: And so maybe now it's sort of a potentially a 659 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 1: golden age for gold where it becomes a mainstream asset. 660 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: Um it hasn't been. I mean that business We were 661 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: the third largest vulture of gold in the world outside 662 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,399 Speaker 1: of the banking system, gold GBI, Gold Bullion International, and 663 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: you know we have uh you know, we plug into 664 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: the wealth management platforms of Merrill, Lynch and Ubs and 665 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, I've we started this company ten years ago. 666 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: I know what those business lines are, I know who 667 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: our clients are. I I know people's receptivity, institutional people's 668 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,319 Speaker 1: receptivity to gold. Not I mean, I would say, you know, 669 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: not great. I mean, we we do a lot of 670 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: meetings where people say, you know, we don't care about gold, 671 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,280 Speaker 1: we don't need it. Um. It doesn't make any sense. 672 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,839 Speaker 1: That might be changed now a little bit. And so 673 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: when you say skate to where the puck is, it 674 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: might be that gold becomes more understood, um because it 675 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 1: is in limited supply. Uh. And in fact, over the 676 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: next five years, mind production is expected to drop because 677 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: there's been no capex put into the mining business in 678 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: the last five years. And so maybe all of these 679 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 1: dollars that are being created and all these euros and 680 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: end it's in stark contrast to a limited supply of 681 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,720 Speaker 1: an asset that you know, has a lot of different 682 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: things going for it now. And as a macro guide 683 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: in assets that are in that are hedges against inflation, well, 684 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: I think gold does that. I think gold does a 685 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,399 Speaker 1: lot of things. Just like bitcoin has twenty different fundamentals 686 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 1: that are driving it. I think gold can have many 687 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: different fundamentals. You know, with stocks, you're you know, you're 688 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: looking at you know, EBA, dhar, you're looking at a 689 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: certain multiples or whatever it is, Gold can go up. Look, 690 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 1: gold is is an all time highs versus all the 691 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: currencies except the dollar. If you look at a basket 692 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: of currencies ten years ago, people would have said, oh, 693 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: gold can't go up. Gold can't rally with the dollar 694 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 1: rallying as well, So there's a new narrative gold can rally. Um, 695 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: you know, a new narrative with gold would be also 696 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: central bank buying, that the world is moving away from 697 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,320 Speaker 1: a dollar a fixed dollar system, that we're moving to 698 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,759 Speaker 1: multi yeah, multipolar world, and gold in that world has 699 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: greater value the second and third tier countries. Central banks 700 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,879 Speaker 1: don't want to have all their reserves and dollars, so 701 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 1: like this is a potentially the beginning of I want 702 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 1: to say, the institutionalization of gold, and I think that's 703 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,720 Speaker 1: where the puck is. You won't hear that much. Maybe 704 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 1: it's just starting now. It's unclear. Um oh, wait was 705 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,840 Speaker 1: the spark? Was the it was the first spark, But 706 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: now maybe people really are saying, look, it's it's valid. 707 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 1: So I think gold and potentially also it's a it's 708 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 1: a hedge for inflation. It's also a hedge against zero 709 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: zero rate in the US and negative rates in Europe. 710 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: I mean, you can be long gold for positive carry 711 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 1: in Europe. It was the first time ever, So I 712 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: think it has a lot of things going for it. 713 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 1: And I mean you you you're aware of Yeah. No, 714 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. I mean, I I 715 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: love to hear your your opinion. I mean, you're I'm 716 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: a student, but you're much more experience than I am, 717 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,839 Speaker 1: so I appreciate that. Um Man, we could go on 718 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: and on and on. There's so many places we could go. 719 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: I'd love to talk about the massive gold shortage that 720 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 1: we're facing right um. And I think we have this 721 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 1: supply demand shock. Um. That's interesting, but we're out of time. 722 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,799 Speaker 1: And uh, it was a great conversation, Dan, and and uh, 723 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 1: I love the information you're putting out, so I'm always 724 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: going to continue to try to, uh to absorb that 725 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: and communicate with you on that. And and I definitely 726 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 1: appreciate you taking the time to stop and talk to us. Yeah. 727 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,359 Speaker 1: And I'm I'm you know, I'm stuck at home here 728 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 1: as we all are, so I'm happy to chat again 729 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 1: if if you like. I mean, it's uh, Um, I'm 730 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:27,280 Speaker 1: getting a lot out of this sort of new Twitter community. Um. 731 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,800 Speaker 1: I think there are people well willing to think outside 732 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,560 Speaker 1: of the box. Um, more so than certainly just the 733 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,360 Speaker 1: Wall Street crowd. And uh, as I'm reminded by people 734 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,799 Speaker 1: on Twitter too, it's it's free, it's which is a 735 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: phenomenal Uh, it's a phenomenal thing. I think Twitter is 736 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,480 Speaker 1: one of the most undervalued assets out there. So anyway, 737 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,879 Speaker 1: it's been been great chatting and happy to do it again. 738 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 1: If yeah, thanks so much, Dan, We'll look forward to it. Hey, 739 00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: if you like this episode of The Market Disruptors Podcast, 740 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: please help us take this to the top of the 741 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,480 Speaker 1: podcast charts. Just please do me a favor and rate, 742 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,880 Speaker 1: review and subscribe. Taking fifteen seconds to just leave a 743 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,479 Speaker 1: quick review goes a long way in helping us reach 744 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: more people and disrupt more markets. I really appreciate you 745 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,879 Speaker 1: listening and I'll see you next time on The Market 746 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: Disruptors Podcast.