Speaker 1: Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Jr. So normally
Speaker 1: this is the part of the show where we hit
Speaker 1: you with the voice of our guests, and we do
Speaker 1: have a guest today, but before we hear from her,
Speaker 1: I wanted to note that last week's discussion with Michael
Speaker 1: Moss on food addiction and this week's topic are both
Speaker 1: personal ones for me. I've been on a weight loss
Speaker 1: journey since I graduated from college, but I've hated my
Speaker 1: body my entire life. I've always felt chubby and out
Speaker 1: of shape, even when I was at my smallest size.
Speaker 1: Even now, as I'm still trying to lose weight, I'm
Speaker 1: working to find a way to love my body, no
Speaker 1: matter what size it is. Our conversation today is with
Speaker 1: someone who's work I've turned to over the years for
Speaker 1: encouragement and now for solutions. The goal is to not
Speaker 1: hate yourself, right, and so there's also a term called
Speaker 1: body acceptance that embody neutrality that's becoming more popularized now.
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of us are striving for
Speaker 1: because it also feels unattainable for a lot of us
Speaker 1: to quote unquote love our bodies all the time. About
Speaker 1: two thirds of American adults are classified as overweight or obese,
Speaker 1: so it may be unsurprising that in twenty nineteen, the
Speaker 1: weight loss and diet control market was valued at around
Speaker 1: seventy eight billion dollars. Even as we work to change
Speaker 1: our bodies, many Americans like me are also fighting the
Speaker 1: stigma that comes with being classified as fat. It never
Speaker 1: really used the word to describe individuals who haven't already
Speaker 1: used that word to describe themselves, because I do think,
Speaker 1: of course, you have to be aware that it does
Speaker 1: come with, you know, people sensitivity, and people have different
Speaker 1: feelings about the word, so I do get that. Gabby Gregg,
Speaker 1: also known as Gabby Fresh, was my portal into the
Speaker 1: world of plus size fashion and body inclusivity. For the
Speaker 1: past decade, She's been an outsn advocate for looking and
Speaker 1: feeling dope in your clothes for folks of all sizes.
Speaker 1: She's been and continues to be a cheerleader for showing
Speaker 1: skin with confidence, even as a lot of our society
Speaker 1: tells us bigger folks to hide it. Her lingerie and
Speaker 1: bikini lines woke up the fashion industry at a time
Speaker 1: when most popular brands didn't manufacture clothing beyond the size eighteen.
Speaker 1: I'm Gabby Fresh. I'm a body positive digital content creator,
Speaker 1: and hating your body is a solvable problem. Why is
Speaker 1: it important for the plus sized community to be able
Speaker 1: to wear bikinis, to be able to wear lingerie that fits?
Speaker 1: Why is that important? Number one, we deserve the same
Speaker 1: access to the same trends and things as everyone else.
Speaker 1: So just baseline, we deserve beautiful bikinis and lingerie because
Speaker 1: everyone else has it, and why shouldn't we. But beyond that,
Speaker 1: I think the bigger mission is to help people feel
Speaker 1: good in their bodies. And we've been told historically as
Speaker 1: people that we should not feel good in our bodies,
Speaker 1: that we should not show our skin, that we should
Speaker 1: cover up and hide and be invisible. And so a
Speaker 1: two piece swimsuit is kind of the most skin you're
Speaker 1: ever probably going to be able to show in public,
Speaker 1: And so that has to be an experience where you
Speaker 1: feel like you should be seen and should be accepted
Speaker 1: and should feel good in your skin and so like,
Speaker 1: because it also feels unattainable for a lot of us
Speaker 1: to quote unquote love our bodies all the time, and
Speaker 1: even I I definitely don't love my body every single day.
Speaker 1: I'm not obsessed with it, but it's more about kind
Speaker 1: of overcoming this culture that tells us we have to
Speaker 1: hate ourselves and constantly be on a weight loss journey.
Speaker 1: That's kind of a body positivity and fat positivity is
Speaker 1: even more radical where and it's I say that ironically,
Speaker 1: like it shouldn't be radical, but the idea that you
Speaker 1: can accept and love your body even if it's fat,
Speaker 1: which in our culture, of course, the word fat has
Speaker 1: been so stigmatized and so associated with things like lazy
Speaker 1: or unhealthy or a million other things, and so it's
Speaker 1: really this idea. It says like, no, you can be
Speaker 1: fat and happy, you can be fat and beautiful. You
Speaker 1: can be fat and all of these other amazing things.
Speaker 1: And to really accept that and learn that, I think
Speaker 1: is kind of transformative idea and process to go through.
Speaker 1: Is it somebody who has lived that experience? So I
Speaker 1: grew up. I didn't grow up like I didn't get
Speaker 1: I didn't gain a lot of weight until after college.
Speaker 1: But I grew up being pretty average size I guess
Speaker 1: they would describe, But I remember the entire time always
Speaker 1: never being a big fan of by size or seeing
Speaker 1: other people that were in better shape, and I was
Speaker 1: just back when I was an average kid. And I'm
Speaker 1: also one of those people that looks back at pictures
Speaker 1: it says, I can't believe I thought I was fat
Speaker 1: then versus now. So can you talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about that. Look what that looked like for you growing
Speaker 1: up and kind of what set you what made this
Speaker 1: such a journey that was you were kind of drawn to. Sure,
Speaker 1: I was kind of average size until middle school. I
Speaker 1: started getting chubby around faither sixth grade, and I remember,
Speaker 1: specifically for me, I actually moved schools from like public,
Speaker 1: diverse school to a private, very white school, and that
Speaker 1: is where I became super self aware of not only
Speaker 1: my race and my class, but also my size. Like
Speaker 1: all three of those kind of converged at once for
Speaker 1: me because I was surrounded by like rich, thin white girls,
Speaker 1: and I had never felt so ostracized and so othered before.
Speaker 1: And again, just like you, though, I look back at
Speaker 1: those pictures now of me when I was like ten, eleven,
Speaker 1: twelve years old, and I'm like, I can't believe this
Speaker 1: little girl hated her body. In college, I had a
Speaker 1: live journal, which is kind of funny to say now,
Speaker 1: But at the time, they were basically these online forums
Speaker 1: and diaries where you shared your day with people, and
Speaker 1: I found different communities there, and one that I was
Speaker 1: introduced to was specifically for plus size fashion and politics,
Speaker 1: and that really opened my eyes for the first time
Speaker 1: to the fact that other people who looked like me
Speaker 1: and had my body type were happy and were kind
Speaker 1: of against diet culture in Okay with the bodies they
Speaker 1: lived in. And so from there, I decided to start
Speaker 1: a blog called Young and Fabulous and be a resource
Speaker 1: for not only my own outfits, but also just like
Speaker 1: a place where women could come and learn about what's trending,
Speaker 1: how where to shop, talk in the comments, and give
Speaker 1: each other advice and all of that, because one of
Speaker 1: the things back then there was nowhere to shop, so
Speaker 1: I kind of shared tips on like how to make
Speaker 1: things work for you even if they're not in your size,
Speaker 1: and so that's how I started my blog. It was
Speaker 1: one of the first of its kind back in two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, and so because of that, MTV reached
Speaker 1: out and I credit you for kind of being my
Speaker 1: portal into the world of inclusivity when it comes to
Speaker 1: plus size bodies, especially because you were a Twitter, VJ.
Speaker 1: Was it twenty twelve, twenty eleven? Okay, and so now
Speaker 1: it's twenty twenty one obviously, and Instagram is filled with
Speaker 1: plus size influencers, lots of people speaking about body positivity.
Speaker 1: I remember you were the one, the first one to
Speaker 1: put out of the fat knie I remember, or the
Speaker 1: earliest one that I remember. A lot of that was
Speaker 1: all you were kind of the tip of the spear
Speaker 1: and a lot of those ways. How did you find
Speaker 1: yourself being in front when it came to making bus
Speaker 1: size bikinis, making plus size laundry? So after I left MTV,
Speaker 1: I actually was approached by in Style magazine to become
Speaker 1: their first plus size editor and launch a page on
Speaker 1: plus size fashion. There. One of the things I shared
Speaker 1: early on, I think, I believe in twenty ten or
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, when I was at MTV, we went to
Speaker 1: Las Vegas for an award show, and when I was
Speaker 1: at a Vegas pool, I shared a photo of me
Speaker 1: in a bikini, and that bikini was so hard to find.
Speaker 1: It was like I could had to search the internet
Speaker 1: high and low, and I was so excited to find
Speaker 1: it and I posted it and people freaked out because
Speaker 1: They were like, oh my god, bikinis exist for us.
Speaker 1: We didn't know that, Like where did you get this?
Speaker 1: And it was so hard to tell them like, actually,
Speaker 1: this only goes up to a size eighteen, but like,
Speaker 1: here's the place I got it. Not long after that,
Speaker 1: I was approached by an online retailer called Swimsuits for All,
Speaker 1: who asked if I'd be interested in doing a capsule
Speaker 1: collection with them. I said yes because there was so
Speaker 1: few kind of fashion forward and trendy swimsuit options for us,
Speaker 1: and so I was nervous. It was my first time designing,
Speaker 1: It was my first time putting out a product. I
Speaker 1: didn't know exactly how it would be received, but I
Speaker 1: did know that demand was there, and so when that
Speaker 1: launched in twenty twelve, it immediately went viral, kind of
Speaker 1: broke the Internet and broke their website. Actually their website crashed.
Speaker 1: It sold out immediately, and I think everyone was just like, Wow,
Speaker 1: this is a game changer, because I think even, you know,
Speaker 1: even the brand didn't realize how big of a demand
Speaker 1: there was, and I the market at large definitely didn't
Speaker 1: realize because there were none that existed, and they thought
Speaker 1: that anyone who was plus sized would not want to
Speaker 1: show skin, would not want to be in a bikini.
Speaker 1: So to see that kind of demand and reaction I
Speaker 1: think kind of really changed the marketplace. And since then,
Speaker 1: each year the plus size swim market has grown exponentially,
Speaker 1: and like, that's really exciting for me, Gabby. I personally
Speaker 1: feel that the limited availability of size fuels the self
Speaker 1: hatred many people experience around their bodies, Like, if you
Speaker 1: can't find your size, it's like society telling you you
Speaker 1: shouldn't exist. Recently, I went to buy a suit and
Speaker 1: I'm a big guy, but it's by no means I
Speaker 1: possible for me to find a suit on a rack
Speaker 1: at the store, and the experience was pretty upsetting. As
Speaker 1: I walked in the suit, guys typically do this thing
Speaker 1: where they're just like, well, I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 1: we might need to find some more material, and you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, this is gonna be it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a struggle, and I feel like that's that's always hard.
Speaker 1: One thing that's always been inspirational to me is being
Speaker 1: able to see a lot of plus size influencers, primarily
Speaker 1: women that are like really in the space and looking
Speaker 1: beautiful and lots of clothes, and I see that fashion
Speaker 1: choices are beginning to Expand do you think that women's
Speaker 1: fashion when it comes to plus size clothing has outpaced
Speaker 1: men's fashion when it comes to plus size clothing, Because
Speaker 1: what I'm finding is that for men, it feels like
Speaker 1: trying to find that same fervor and those same options
Speaker 1: has still been a bit of a struggle for me,
Speaker 1: well for me personally, And I don't know if maybe
Speaker 1: I'm just not looking at the right places. I think
Speaker 1: the male fashion customer is just different than the female
Speaker 1: fashion customer, like generally speaking, and like often isn't looking
Speaker 1: for the same fashion items as the as women are.
Speaker 1: And so I think historically men have been fine with
Speaker 1: like a plane button down and some jeans or a
Speaker 1: T shirt, you know, And I think women a lot
Speaker 1: of us have really been pushing for like more statement pieces,
Speaker 1: more eye catching pieces. That being said, like I do
Speaker 1: know that there are I was so excited, for example,
Speaker 1: like when Aso's uh not only launched plus sizes for women,
Speaker 1: but like a few years ago finally launched plus sizes
Speaker 1: for men, And that made me so excited because I
Speaker 1: constantly am hearing from men and my dms, Like, I'm
Speaker 1: so excited for what you're doing, but like, do you
Speaker 1: know of any places for me to shop, because like
Speaker 1: Macy's or Ords, Drum or whatever may carry bigger sizes
Speaker 1: for men in general, just like among the get yeah,
Speaker 1: we did too. We still even now as much as
Speaker 1: you were saying, like women's plus size fashion has outpaced men,
Speaker 1: like I still almost exclusively shop online. We still don't
Speaker 1: have any instore options. We have like our typical Lane
Speaker 1: Bryant tour in which are like our two kind of
Speaker 1: biggest retailers, big box retailers, but like, we don't have
Speaker 1: a lot of in store options some again, some of
Speaker 1: the department stores have plus size sections, but they for
Speaker 1: the most part are pretty dire. They're pretty bad. We're
Speaker 1: kind of stuck in the corner on the top floor,
Speaker 1: in the back next to the dishes. You know you
Speaker 1: talked about ass like and a lot of these plus
Speaker 1: and extended sizes, they also have a limit, and I
Speaker 1: know that there's been some like I think even some
Speaker 1: of your lines to like eventually have a limit. YEA,
Speaker 1: how do we solve that? How do we get to
Speaker 1: a place where there is a size for everyone and
Speaker 1: they're not being a limit that we can't reach. Because
Speaker 1: even when you were talking about not being unable to
Speaker 1: get the one bikini that was in size eighteen, Yes,
Speaker 1: and if they're one person came along and they were
Speaker 1: twenty and it's like, oh, that's it. That's it for me.
Speaker 1: And I've experienced that myself in different sizes as well.
Speaker 1: So how would you how do you solve for that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a really tough one and a great question. It's
Speaker 1: something that's an ongoing conversation within the community because you know,
Speaker 1: inevitably wherever you kind of stop, whatever size you stop at,
Speaker 1: there's going to be someone larger than that size who
Speaker 1: feels excluded, when in reality, you're trying to be inclusive
Speaker 1: and you're trying to extend the sizes. And so I
Speaker 1: will be the first to say, like my swimsuit line
Speaker 1: and my laundry line both are not inclusive enough. Like
Speaker 1: we I really wish I had more control over the
Speaker 1: side range, but ultimately that's not my call. But the
Speaker 1: consensus I've seen is like, we wish all plus size
Speaker 1: brands went to at least a size thirty or thirty two. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: like what we're facing in capitalism is like, of course,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you want to have
Speaker 1: the highest margins and the most profits, and and that
Speaker 1: is sometimes at conflict with what's needed in the community.
Speaker 1: Right It's like, ethically, what is the right thing to
Speaker 1: do versus what is going to make you the most money.
Speaker 1: And so I definitely hope to continue doing more swimwear
Speaker 1: and laundree and I hope that I'm able to extend
Speaker 1: the side is beyond a size twenty six because I
Speaker 1: think we need to. And it's it's definitely consistent feedback
Speaker 1: that I've heard. There was a trainer, Jillian Michaels, who
Speaker 1: got out, who came out and was she kind of
Speaker 1: went to battle with Lizzo, who is a great singer,
Speaker 1: pop star who is also plus size and very body inclusive,
Speaker 1: and Jillian Michaels looked at her and said that she's
Speaker 1: basically said she's unhealthy and she's promoting obesity. How do
Speaker 1: you feel about the critics that are saying things like
Speaker 1: that about this movement, that it is a promoting obesity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's kind of the oldest response in the
Speaker 1: book that I've heard since I started over a decade ago,
Speaker 1: it's constantly like you're promoting obesity or like you're unhealthy,
Speaker 1: And I have so much to say about that, mostly
Speaker 1: because the truth is especially right now, I am unhealthy,
Speaker 1: mostly not because of my weight, but because I have
Speaker 1: chronic illness and lyme disease. And so my big thing
Speaker 1: is like health should not be an indicator of value, right,
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't matter if someone is healthy or not.
Speaker 1: They should be respected as a human being and they
Speaker 1: still deserve to be seen and to be heard. And like,
Speaker 1: I don't care if someone is healthy or not. I want,
Speaker 1: of course, I want us as a society to care
Speaker 1: about our health. But like, at the same time, as
Speaker 1: individuals walking down the street, you can't tell me who's
Speaker 1: healthy and who's not just based on how they look,
Speaker 1: Like you don't know anyone's personal behaviors. There's a million
Speaker 1: reasons someone is thin, there's a million reasons someone is fat.
Speaker 1: And someone's health status should not be indicative of like
Speaker 1: how they deserve to be treated as a person. If
Speaker 1: someone struggling with their health, why are you telling them
Speaker 1: they shouldn't wear a bikini? Like how are those two
Speaker 1: things correlated? Like it's like one you don't really know
Speaker 1: someone's health status into even if they are unhealthy, that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they can't enjoy their time on a beach
Speaker 1: looking cute. Like I don't I don't get why those
Speaker 1: two things are related to people. If you care so
Speaker 1: much about health, then do be on the front lines,
Speaker 1: like working to get people educated about nutrition, like get
Speaker 1: let's let's get better food options and food deserts, like
Speaker 1: let's work on that, versus you just telling someone they're
Speaker 1: ugly and they're gonna die. What do you hope to
Speaker 1: see in the fashion world as a result of your
Speaker 1: influence in the next five to ten years. I guess
Speaker 1: I could say we're still tokenized, right, Like it's still
Speaker 1: like a niche issue to be Oh, look at the
Speaker 1: body issue, or look at we look at this runway show.
Speaker 1: We included three plus size models. How amazing are we?
Speaker 1: You know? And so it's still kind of a talking
Speaker 1: point and a headline when a plus size model does something.
Speaker 1: And so I think when plus size models and when
Speaker 1: plus size black models are being included consistently in campaigns
Speaker 1: and in fashion editorials, and like when our sizes are
Speaker 1: being offered at every store and it's not the exception,
Speaker 1: but it is the rule. I think that's when it's
Speaker 1: truly going to feel like, you know, there has been
Speaker 1: a shift in the tide where we are just included,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of the exception for us to not
Speaker 1: be included versus to be included. Gabby, what can listeners
Speaker 1: who are struggling with self hatred and body image issues
Speaker 1: due to combat them? And what can listeners do to
Speaker 1: support people who are struggling with body image issues and
Speaker 1: self hatred? Yeah, so I think a couple things, But
Speaker 1: one thing I always start with is like, if you
Speaker 1: are struggling to accept your body, following influencers or just
Speaker 1: people who look like you is life changing. And I
Speaker 1: know it sounds kind of superficial or not that important,
Speaker 1: but I cannot emphasize enough how much representation matters and
Speaker 1: how much seeing someone who looks like you and who
Speaker 1: reflects your body and your experience is important. So, like,
Speaker 1: even if when you're following so incisitions in the beginning,
Speaker 1: you might even be judging them because a lot of
Speaker 1: us have that internalized shame and internalized fat phobia, So
Speaker 1: you might be like, oh, she should not be wearing that,
Speaker 1: Like why is she wearing a string bikini. You might
Speaker 1: have that initial gut reaction, and that's because you have
Speaker 1: been conditioned to feel that way, and so like it's
Speaker 1: even more important for you to follow those people. Over time,
Speaker 1: what you'll find is that, like, those reactions will dissipate
Speaker 1: because when you're seeing that on a day to day
Speaker 1: basis in your feed and you are normalizing that to
Speaker 1: yourself and realizing, like, oh wow, these women like themselves
Speaker 1: and are allowing themselves to express themselves through fashion or
Speaker 1: through creativity and like enjoying their lives. And like, when
Speaker 1: you're seeing a fat person do all the things you've
Speaker 1: been told they're not supposed to do, and you see
Speaker 1: that consistently over time, you give yourself that grace too,
Speaker 1: and that permission to live that way as well. Gabby,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. Of course,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. This is a
Speaker 1: great conversation. Gabby Fresh is a body positive digital content
Speaker 1: creator Solvable listeners. I want to thank you so much
Speaker 1: for listening in on these last two episodes that were
Speaker 1: way more personal for me. It's been meaningful to get
Speaker 1: to talk with experts about how to solve these difficult
Speaker 1: problems and I'd love to hear more from you. What
Speaker 1: are the challenges that you're struggling with and what are
Speaker 1: some problems you'd like to hear us discuss on the show.
Speaker 1: What solutions do you need? You could tweet at us
Speaker 1: with the hashtag solvable. Could tweet at me at oh
Speaker 1: it's big Ron that's at O h I T S
Speaker 1: b I g R O N, or you could tweet
Speaker 1: at Pushkin at Pushkin pods that's at p U s
Speaker 1: h k I N p O d S. Solvable is
Speaker 1: produced by Jocelyn Frank, research by David Jah, booking by
Speaker 1: Lisa Dutton. Our managing producer is Sasha Matthias, and our
Speaker 1: executive producer is Mio Lobel. I'm Ronald Young Junior. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening.