1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Brading. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They call 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: Paul Mission Control decads. Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't 9 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: want you to know. It's a show that you don't 10 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: have to uh pay crazy interest for, you know. We 11 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: all we ask is that you pay a bit of 12 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: the most valuable currency of this time attention. Why are 13 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: we talking about payments in installments? It's because today's topic 14 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: for plants may sound a little strange for a show 15 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: that applies critical thoughts and conspiracies. But as we've established, 16 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: all sorts of shenanigans can occur in the strangest, most 17 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: ostensibly innocuous places. Uh, Noel, Matt, have either of you 18 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: ever ever been in a rent to own store like 19 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: a rent a center or an errands? No? But I 20 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: always remark about, like what is this, who is it for? 21 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: And why is it so big. Yeah, I've been in 22 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: a Errands. There was one right down by my old house, 23 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: and I went in there early on when I moved 24 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: to the Atlanta area, and it was to really look 25 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: at prices of things. And I didn't know anything back then, 26 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: so I didn't realize that the prices that were represented 27 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: in there were actually very different than the prices at 28 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: other large retailers. Did you think Errands was just like 29 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: a big box store or did you understand? I didn't 30 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: know what it was, but I look through and everything 31 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: seemed way too expensive for me. Yeah, it's a common Uh, 32 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: it's common observation many people throughout the United States. Weirdly enough, 33 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: not so much in the United Kingdom. That statement will 34 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: make sense later Today the show presents the case of 35 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: an industry that just may have weaponized the American dream. 36 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: Don't believe that's hyperbolic language either, which should frighten people. 37 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: Stuff then, which you know is talking about the rent 38 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: to own industry note important housekeeping note, not the rent 39 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: to own home industry, where people rent a house from 40 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: a landlord, company or individual with the idea of one 41 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: day owning it. Uh. That's a separate future episode. This 42 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: episode is about a quite common and quite controversial practice 43 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: of renting appliances, putting things on take it home kind 44 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: of layaway, apply aiances, furniture, video game consoles, you name it. 45 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: The show will get into it today. Here are the 46 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 1: facts for these purposes. What does stuff they don't want 47 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: you to to know mean when it says rent to own? 48 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: Or even in this day and age, um the idea 49 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: of you know, owning your phone or like, what is 50 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: that you know, payment that's built into your bill that 51 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: allows you to get the newest, hottest, most up to 52 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: date phone you know, right when you want it, even 53 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: if you don't want to pay the full price. And 54 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: another think we're gonna talk about is how ultimately irrelevant 55 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: at the end of the day the actual price becomes. Yes. 56 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: For so, for our purposes today on this episode, rent 57 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: to own means entering into a contractual agreement with a 58 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: third party. That's you right, You enter an agreement with 59 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: that party to take home something. As we mentioned before, 60 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: let's say a couch, and then to pay either on 61 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: a weekly or monthly basis for that couch. It will 62 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: generally be a much smaller pain meant than how much 63 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: the couch costs but you're going to be making that 64 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: payment for an extended period of time. Yeah, so think 65 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: of things like buying a vehicle, buying a house, large 66 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: appliances you know, a refrigerator isn't cheap, or furniture a 67 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: nice sofa set. This also can include things like student loans, 68 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: epic vacations. In the United States, this unfortunately includes life 69 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: saving or life breaking medical procedures and so on. The 70 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: thing is, the harsh reality is that not everyone can 71 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: immediately buy these goods and services with cash upfront. That's 72 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: why people take out loans or pay for things in 73 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: installment plans, lay away at old school brick and mortar stores, 74 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: or most commonly for people, paying off a phone as 75 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: part of one's monthly bill. When this all works out, 76 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: it's a win win for stakeholders. People are able to 77 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: acquire their stuff, manufacturers sell their stuff. Banks make money 78 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: all the time off the interests. That's accepted as normal. 79 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: The concept of rent to own takes it a step 80 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: further into all sorts of products and honestly, fellow conspiracy realists, 81 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: for many people, this is the only viable way to 82 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: make necessary purchases. Let's not make the mistake of vilifying 83 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: the poor, as convenient as it may be for all 84 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: sorts of bad faith actors, these are not luxurious things. 85 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: There's not avocado, toast, etcetera. One would argue this is 86 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: stuff that people need to survive, but it's not free. 87 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: The rent to own outfits are taking on risks, so 88 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: they always tack on a higher interest rate per month. 89 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: Big question, how did this become a thing? Because I 90 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: got to guarantee you not to inject personal opinion in here. 91 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: Most things that seem sketchy are older than they seem 92 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, um so. Historians usually trace the concept 93 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: of the rent to own industry back to the early 94 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: twentie century in the United Kingdom, uh to two people 95 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: Percy Pairing's Tom's and another gentleman in Austrian businessman named 96 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: Jules Thorne uh and the first rent to own establishment 97 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: brick and mortar kind of storefront radio rentals. Well, also 98 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: that term in the UK, I believe ultimately became like 99 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: a that's crazy. Uh, that's that that's radio rental and um, 100 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: I think that's probably a reference to like who would 101 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: be crazy enough to do one of these things? I'm 102 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: just speculating here, but we're gonna get to that. That 103 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: came in nineteen thirty. Um because of Percy Pairing's Tom's 104 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: um who was from Brighton. He was a radio dealer 105 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: who thought that, you know, with the advent of radio 106 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: and it being the hot thing and keeping up with 107 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: the jones is mentality and all, he thought that people 108 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: were going to be really really you know, um desperate 109 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: to get a radio, you know, so they wouldn't feel 110 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: left out of the conversation. I mean, there was so 111 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: much culture happening on the radio, and you didn't have one, 112 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: then you weren't. You kind of almost felt like a 113 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: second class citizen. So um, he took advantage of that, 114 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: let's say, insecurity from some folks that maybe couldn't afford it. Um, 115 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: instead of a situation where you could rent radios to consumers, 116 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: rather than having them purchased them with cash on the 117 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: barrelhead as it were. It is very interesting when you 118 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: look at today's rent a centerville or whatever you want 119 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: to call this thing, the industry of renting goods, because 120 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: that's translated from radios to television's. Televisions are one of 121 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: the most rented things from these rent rental centers. I 122 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: guess we call them. I know. I only know that 123 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: because there's a place called rent a Center, which is 124 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: interesting to considering how much cheaper televisions have gotten. You know, 125 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: it used to be back in the day, to get 126 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: the nicest plasma screen or whatever, you'd be spending a 127 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: grand or more, you know minimum, But nowadays you can 128 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: get it perfectly fine l C D H H D 129 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: t V first a couple of hundred bucks. So it 130 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: does also imply that people are praying on folks. Uh, 131 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: lack of awareness of what else is available in the market. Yeah, 132 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: to sew that up real quick, there's another guy in 133 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: the story, Jules Thorne. You might not have heard of 134 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: Jules Thorne if you were not from the United Kingdom. 135 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: In night, this Austrian businessman moved to England, made something 136 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: called the Electrical Lamp Service Company, imports lightbulbs and radio components. 137 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: Two he gets uh, he starts playing the monopolization game. 138 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: He operates his own radio rental shop, Lotus Radio, and 139 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: thirty three later he acquires pairing Tom's old business. Uh. 140 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: This business model made sense. Everybody wanted a radio, they 141 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: wanted to keep up with the Joneses and to keep 142 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: up with the news, to have their fingers on the 143 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: pulse of the zeitgeist. But of course not everyone can 144 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 1: pony up to become an early adopter. Not everyone has 145 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: the cash to buy one of these new fangled gadgets 146 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: or gizmos all at once. Same with television's UH. When 147 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: televisions became mainstream, the rental companies made a killing off 148 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: that as well. There's a nineteen sixty two article from 149 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: Time magazine which you can find online that shows eighty 150 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: percent of British television sets in the early nineteen sixties 151 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: were rented. Less than one percent of US televisions were UH, 152 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: and the ones in the US that were rented were 153 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: mostly rented by hotels. You can find vintage advertisements from 154 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: London in particular that show the the appeal of this. 155 00:09:55,320 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: They included free service warranties essentially, which are not always 156 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: included in the US rent to own debacle that's happening today. 157 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: But maybe, uh, maybe it's time talking about how it's 158 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: spread across the Atlantic. How did it get from the 159 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: UK to the US. I want to just add, you 160 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: have a really excellent clipping UM and then the outline 161 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: today from one of those ads and it says two 162 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: years free service tubes and valves, et cetera. Because you know, 163 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: this kind of analog technology ran on these expendable parts 164 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,719 Speaker 1: that would not last forever, like a tube or a 165 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: valve something. It's like a light bulb essentially, it will 166 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: like burn out. And you know, the folks consumers were 167 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: not educated and how to repair their own stuff unless 168 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: they were tinkerers. Let's just say so, you know, someone 169 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: might think, oh, my my TV is completely dead, and 170 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: they just wouldn't know that I just need to order 171 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: this thing and you literally just pop it in. It's 172 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: the easiest thing in the world to do. But they're 173 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: capitalizing on that um sort of ignorance as well. It's 174 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: really good that you point that out and all, because 175 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: that remains and I'm sure we'll get into it a 176 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: little further, but that remains as one of the biggest 177 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: selling points for for one of these rentals service companies 178 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: is that they will service whatever it is that you 179 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 1: per whatever it is you're renting from them, they will 180 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: service it free of charge. Anything you need, will take 181 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: care of it. For a dishwasher or something that matters. 182 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: That's almost the equivalent of having like a landlord that 183 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: if your stuff goes out, they're gonna fix it. You're 184 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: not gonna be responsible for like figuring that out. So 185 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: that could to some people also be appealing, unless they're 186 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: one of the large scale financial institutions that are buying 187 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: up all the rental property in the United States. But yeah, yeah, 188 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: it's true. So the idea hit the United States around 189 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: the fifties and sixties when a couple of you know, 190 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: American entrepreneurs um pioneered that concept, or at least you 191 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: know americanized let's just say Charles louder Milk, and we 192 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: used to have a colleague with the last name louder Milk. 193 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: I've always loved that name. There's a blues guitarist. I 194 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: think also like the named louder Milk. I think it's 195 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: very very Nashville, old school country Western kind of vibes. 196 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: And uh, this guy, Charles louder Milk, Sr. Was actually 197 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: from right here in Atlanta, and I think I'm right here. Um. 198 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: He found that a company called Aron Rents, which must 199 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: have rebranded to become Errand's Rentals or that place or 200 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: just Errands. I think, well, you know, and that makes 201 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: sense why you wouldn't have realized it was one of 202 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: these rent places or rent a centers. You just thought 203 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: it was like a big box, maybe affordable kind of 204 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: you know storefront. Yeah. I think I'm just not very 205 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:40,719 Speaker 1: smart guys. I think they're I think okay, I think, well, 206 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: if they got you, they definitely probably get others, because 207 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: I would argue you're quite savvy and very smart. Um. 208 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: And you know, without the word rental or rent a 209 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: center type deal in the name, you could easily confuse 210 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: it for just a showroom of like fancy home goods. 211 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: You know. Hey, speaking of that, there is a place 212 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: called rent Center though, and it's been around for a while. Yeah, 213 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: we see that around here as well. Um. And even 214 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: the logo is very old school looking. Yeah. Aaron Errands, 215 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: as it's known today, the Eron's company started out as 216 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: Aaron Rents in nineteen fifty five. They had a bunch 217 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: of surplus chairs from the U. S. Army. They rented 218 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: him out for ten cents a day. Rent rent a 219 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: Center is founded by j Arnist Tally, who t A. L. L. E. Y, 220 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: who is nowadays largely acknowledged as the father of the 221 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: modern uh rent to own industry in the United States, 222 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: similar to how Edward Bernes is often called the father 223 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: of public relations. Uh, this guy comes out of Kansas. 224 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: He has this retail appliance store. And in the nineteen 225 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: fifties there was this issue about bank credit. You have 226 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: to remember, folks, this is before the dawn of the 227 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: credit card economy, and that plays a huge role in 228 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: what went wrong here. Uh. Bank credit prevented a lot 229 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: of people from walking in and buying an appliance of 230 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: some sort. Right, So he said, why don't I rent 231 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: it out? And if people can't meet their monthly payment, 232 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: I can always this him talking, I can always repossess 233 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: the merchandise. When we reached the end of this take 234 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: home layaway, which is just a term made up for 235 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: this show. It's not something that you'll find in the industry. Uh, 236 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: they would own the merchandise. Tolly would have some cool 237 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: stuff happening. On the other side, it would have had 238 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: guaranteed income monthly, right month over month, And he would 239 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: have also been able to look at his spreadsheet and 240 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: say that he increased sales or his company did. Observers 241 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: are watching this, and just like when Catchup hits the 242 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: mainstream in the eighteen hundred's, a lot of other people 243 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: get into the game, and that's what leads you here 244 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: to this episode. According to the Association and Progressive Rental Organizations, 245 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: the size of the rent to own industry as of 246 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen fifteen, those are the most comprehensive numbers now 247 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: it tops eight point five billion dollars In the United 248 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: States alone, you can see all uh pre pandemic. You 249 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: can see almost ten thousand different retailers selling this stuff 250 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: throughout Canada, Mexico. In the US, rent A Center alone 251 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: is a big player. That's probably two thousand, four hundred stores. 252 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: This could be seen as a win win again when 253 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: everything's above the board. But today's question what happens when 254 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: things aren't above the board? And how come so many 255 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: people think this is a hotbed of corruption and indeed conspiracy. 256 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: Pausing for a moment or word from the sponsors and 257 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: diving in, here's where it gets crazy. It turns out 258 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: this industry, as undeniably profitable as it is, has a 259 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: ton of critics for several incredibly valid and disturbing reasons. 260 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: One of the biggest reasons we've already kind of been 261 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: hinting at it's that you're gonna pay a lot more 262 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: money in the end if you're renting one of these 263 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: goods rather than if you just went out and purchased it. 264 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: You're you're going to be paying a much larger price 265 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: in the end, and people see that as predatory for sure. 266 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: Like you're essentially, as the owner of one of these 267 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: stores or as the person is running one of these stores, 268 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: you are getting your giving a loan basically out in 269 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: the form of a good and then you're just making interest, 270 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: like lots and lots of interest in stuff on the 271 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: top of somebody who probably can't afford it well. And 272 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: I imagine all of that stuff happens in house, Like 273 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: it's not like this is being financed through a bank. 274 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: You're essentially on the hook like you would be to 275 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: a loan shark or something. I mean, not to be 276 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: too hyperbolic, but it is a company um that is 277 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: not a bank, probably has affiliations with banks and things 278 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: like that, But you're you haven't like signed up for 279 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: a loan exactly right, Like it's sort of is that, 280 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: but it also kind of isn't. Essentially, I guess it's 281 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: just kind of a bad loan. I don't know who 282 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: writes the laws would be the question. Yeah. The most 283 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: telling aspect of the way these stores do business in 284 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 1: the modern day is the pricing. If you have ever 285 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: traveled this, this is way more common outside of the 286 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: the US and Canada. If you've ever traveled to certain countries, 287 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: you'll walk into a store and there's not a price, 288 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: and so you want to buy something and you ask 289 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: what the prices and they'll say for you x amount 290 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: of whatever currency there is. And the understanding here is 291 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: that the customer must negotiate. But again that doesn't happen 292 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: in the US near as often. In most of these establishments, 293 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: the prices are not clearly marked. There are, however, very 294 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: well trained associates ready to help you find out prices 295 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: in terms of the lease. I would just say some 296 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: of that has changed a little bit now that a 297 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: lot of these places have moved online. I don't know, 298 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: I don't know how much of their business has done 299 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: online versus inside the store, but I know they they 300 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 1: have a thing sometimes that I've seen on their websites, 301 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: on renaissent or in particular, where you're not exactly sure 302 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 1: how much it costs until you put in some of 303 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: your location information, you put in a couple of extra things, 304 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: then you can get at least an estimated price on 305 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: how much it will cost. But you're right, man, it 306 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: is different in that it's it's not so clear, I 307 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 1: don't think, and often it's it's made to look like 308 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: there's a sale or something, or it's it's going to 309 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: be less now than it would be usually if you 310 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: do it right now. That's the illusion of of of 311 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: big box kind of stories. Like I used to work 312 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: at a music shop when I was younger, and we 313 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: would you know, it's kind of an old school, family 314 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: owned operation, and we had to price everything with little, 315 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: you know, tags with like a piece of string on it. 316 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: You'd put around the the tuning key of the guitar 317 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: and it would have a price on it, and then 318 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: slashed through that price would write this by pen and 319 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: then it would have your price, and then they would 320 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,239 Speaker 1: give you a better price than even that because they 321 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: had just liked the cut of your jib or whatever 322 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: it might have been. But the slash through price is 323 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: what's called list price, which is the price that nobody pays. 324 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: It's sort of this like weird standardizing thing, I guess. 325 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: And then the price that's under there would be what 326 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: would be retail right, and then even that's too high, 327 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: So it gives them room to haggle and give the 328 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: illusion of a good deal. And I had to do that, 329 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: like I was trained. It made me feel so ichy. 330 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: I hated it. Um, but that's their whole business model 331 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: kind of. And once the Internet came along, they hated 332 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: the Internet, let me tell you, because that gave everyone 333 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: kind of level the playing field, right right. Uh. Siloing 334 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: information is always one of the go too's of manipulative 335 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: entities and bad faith actors. Uh. This stuff regarding the 336 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: conversation about how online sales may have changed things also 337 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 1: is doing large parts to something in the US called 338 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: the Better Business Bureau. No to your earlier example, an 339 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 1: analog in the world of automotives would be blue Book 340 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: Price Kelly's blue Book Price. It is the common go 341 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: to of how much a vehicle may or may not 342 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: be worth, and nobody pays it. Uh. The other the 343 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: next thing in your comparison there would be uh M 344 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: s r P manufacturers suggested retail price, which again people 345 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: don't often pay. The big insidious psychological aspect at play. 346 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: There is something called anchoring. Right, you want somebody to 347 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: pay thirty dollars for something that's worth fourteen dollars. You 348 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: have a fifty dollar price tag just slashed out arbitrarily, 349 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 1: there's no law against it, and all of a sudden, 350 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: thirties starts to look like a good deal, especially when you, 351 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: as a bad faith actor, have restricted access to information 352 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: showing this stuff is worth fourteen dollars. Those are deceptive 353 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: sales practices. Better Business Bureau is mad about it. Failure 354 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 1: to disclose interest rates. That's another thing they're mad about. 355 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: Legally speaking, if you find yourself in a position where 356 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: you feel you need to go to one of these 357 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: companies and they are all operating legally, they're not breaking 358 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: the law. They are required to tell you if you ask. 359 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: It's another thing this show in the asked is called 360 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: the guacamole rule. It's available upon request. Uh. And interest rate. 361 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: I'm got to tell you that we're required by law, 362 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: as a Chipotle employed, to tell you that guacamole is extra. Uh. 363 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: These interest rates can be what is often called you serious, 364 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: which means predatory. Uh. In In this sense, interest rates 365 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: can be up to or even higher, and they're often 366 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: in effect when do this rent to own option because 367 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: it's technically not alone, so it doesn't trip the flags 368 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: that various states have about you sious or predatory loans. Instead, 369 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: it's a lease. The product can be returned at any 370 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: time during that least term. You as the consumer will 371 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: not get your money back. You overpaid for a television, 372 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: You've paid twice what the TV is worth. You just 373 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: want to bring it back and get out of this 374 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: uh terrible con Then you absolutely are free to do so, 375 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: as long as it's a working order. There will probably 376 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: be some fees involved because you know the company is 377 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: working to maximize the amount of uh, your money it 378 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: can take. So why do people consider it predatory? It's 379 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: a good question. And also by that point, they've probably 380 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: restocked that TV. I bet stores like this only keep 381 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 1: a certain amount of inventory where it's not like a 382 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: big box store where they have like a whole warehouse 383 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: full of the things. They probably just have a couple 384 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: and then they're banking on that one being out of 385 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: the store for a long term situation, and then they 386 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: just restocked that one item. Every time it goes they 387 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: probably just restock it again. Well, you know, there's an 388 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: interesting idea there. No, because it's worth asking the question. Many, 389 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: many big box stores, regardless of what they're selling, use 390 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: something called it just in time supply chain, and that 391 00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: really the hammer hit the nail, uh during the pay endemic, 392 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: when supply chains were collapsing, and all of a sudden, 393 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: a lot of US residents who had never had this 394 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: experience before would go to a place. They'd see that 395 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: the prices hadn't just risen. Consumers simply could not buy 396 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: the stuff there. It wasn't there on the shelves. And 397 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: it went way beyond toilet paper and hand sanitizers, switch 398 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: or the PlayStation five. Perhaps, Uh, stay tuned, Maybe there's 399 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: an episode about semi conductors in Taiwan in the future. 400 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: In the meantime, here are some numbers from a great, 401 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: a great piece written by Matt Breed, one for an 402 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: outfit called money Crashers, and it hits on something very important. Uh, 403 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realist, fellow listeners, hope you clocked this. So 404 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, not all that long ago. Uh, Matt 405 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: Breed went in and checked out these places the same 406 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: way someone might accidentally walk to a store because you 407 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: don't know it's trying to rip you off. H Breed 408 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: found that a forty l c D TV was priced 409 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: two ways. You could buy it right now, take it 410 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: home that day for the low low price of one thousand, 411 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: one hundred dollars and cents not counting tax. Or you 412 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: could rent to own it, and if you're on time, 413 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: that price at a six interest rate would work out 414 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: to one thousand, nine nine dollars and seventy six cents. 415 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: Here's the kicker, and thanks for this, Matt Breed. The 416 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: lowest price for the same product if you had the 417 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: wherewithal to check into it four hundred dollars. But even 418 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: then this is based on maybe someone doesn't have four 419 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 1: hundred Maybe they know about the cheaper product and they 420 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: know it's good or just as good, but they don't 421 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: have five hundred bucks, and they don't have enough credit 422 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: to get a decent term credit card to buy that 423 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: that TV for five bucks, or to even just get 424 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: financing with the store right wherever you would buy it. Yeah, 425 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: this episode gets gets to this too, and these are 426 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: quite disturbing things to your earlier question regarding supply chainnel 427 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: It's interesting that if you're selling a five hundred dollar 428 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: television for two thousand dollars, then you can already pay 429 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: you know, more than three times over more than treble 430 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: what what you know? You can buy three more TVs 431 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: a minimum. That's just that's just lazy cocktail maths subtracting 432 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: for overhead. You see it again with refrigerators. Actually, one 433 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: of the best deals Matt Breed found was an Xbox. 434 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: But it may be helpful for our fellow listeners to 435 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 1: walk through just a couple more examples of how egregious 436 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: this is? Can I give you one? I found a 437 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 1: Errands just I wanted to find, like right now, how 438 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: much something would cost? Like do do do this exact 439 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: thing that Matt Breed did, but with with Errands, just 440 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: because I wanted to see just a year later, by 441 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: the way, yeah, one year later. So you guys, how 442 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: much do you think it would cost to go out 443 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: and buy a Nintendo switch right now? Like right now? 444 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: Three bucks? Right almost exactly, three hundred dollars for just 445 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 1: the base set. Right if you go over to Errands, 446 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: you can get it right now. They'll deliver it to 447 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: you for free. They will service it for you as 448 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: long as you've got it, and all you have to 449 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: do is make twelve easy payments of But the big 450 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: kicker there, and the reason why people do it, I think, 451 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: is because Errands offers a one time fee of five 452 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: dollars to get it shipped to you and get the 453 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: process started. I think I think that might be the 454 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: kicker guys, because it's like, here's five dollars, I'll get 455 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: it right now, and then I have to make my 456 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: payment at some point, you know, this month or twelve payments, 457 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 1: twelve payments of eighty dollars. That's almost a thousand dollars 458 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: for the switch. It is nine hundred and fifty nine 459 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,959 Speaker 1: eight cents in total if you went the whole twelve months, 460 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: which it's just crazy to me, it's three times the 461 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: price of the actual product. Yeah, and the video game 462 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: consoles are less profitable overall than things like a refrigerator, 463 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: for instance, a twenty three cubic foot refrigerator. That's one 464 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: penny under fift bucks to buy it now six interest. 465 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: That's a little less than two thousand, four hundred for 466 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: the same thing. Lowest price if you go almost anywhere 467 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: else seven hundred bucks money hand over fist, dude, but 468 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: like that was well you just said, Matt though, was 469 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: like way worse than this. It was like six hundred 470 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: extra bucks on top of the basic price of the switch. 471 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: And the question then becomes, like, what's the monthly aiment? 472 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: And do they assess that based on how bad your 473 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: credit score is? And can they jerk you around even 474 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,479 Speaker 1: with that to make it a little better for them 475 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: a little sweeter? No? Yeah, I mean I I don't 476 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: know the specifics of Like I haven't actually gone in 477 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: and tried to enter into an agreement, and honestly, I 478 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: don't think I would even even if it was just 479 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: fact finding, just because I'm scared. It scares me. Uh, 480 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: some of I would want an attorney present. I think 481 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: it's mafia type practices. It really is. It's like a 482 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: what do they call that bust out? Like when when 483 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: the mafia like takes over someone, Like in The Sopranos, 484 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: they take over this guy's sporting goods business and they 485 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: just bleed him dry by like taking his inventory and 486 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: selling it in Times Square and then taking out loans 487 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: in his name. And they don't do it all in 488 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: one go, They just do it over time, until he's 489 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: just gotten nothing left. Then I want to get the 490 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: point you made earlier, which was about you know, it's 491 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: some of these things are uh necessary to live, right 492 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: And if you think about a refrigerator, people need to 493 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: have cold food, and especially if you're on a budget 494 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: and you need to save money, you need to have 495 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: a place to keep your food cold to serve it 496 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: to your family or even to yourself. Right. Well, Similarly, 497 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: washers and dryers are a very common good that are 498 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,479 Speaker 1: rented from these places, and I found a similar thing 499 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: at Renaissenter. You guys, it was to own it over 500 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: the course of a hundred and twenty payments, one payment 501 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: per week. It would costs to get this pretty standard 502 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: washer and dryer a week. Though that's interesting, like, yes, 503 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: it was a week pay in any other you know, 504 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: professional loan arrangement. Never that sounds like our rent by 505 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: the hour hotel or something like. It's very I mean, 506 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's it's odd because it's thirty five 507 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: dollars a week, thirty ninety nine a week to have 508 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: this washer and dryer in your house, and you can 509 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: have it for a hundred and twenty weeks after that 510 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: you own it, and if you work that math out, 511 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: it is five thousand, two hundred and seventy eight dollars 512 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: and eighty cents. And if you go to the Whirlpool website, 513 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: the manufacturer of that object, and we're talking about the 514 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: M s RP for both of those things, that cost 515 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: so again you could see the common pattern here, fellow listeners. Uh, 516 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: to not miss uh, the point we're attempting to establish 517 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: there with the video game consoles and Xbox three sixty 518 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: Halo Bundle for the discriminating customer is sold by these 519 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: kind of places for six thirty bucks. Rent to own 520 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: is little under eight hundred and forty dollars. That's thirty 521 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: three percent interest was that which is actually a better 522 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: deal than these appliances. Lowest price, uh, fellow game enthusiasts 523 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: will know at that time was about four hundred dollars. 524 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: You know, that's really interesting that it's a an Xbox 525 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: three sixty for that price for and to get it 526 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: for that much, it would cost that much because that's 527 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: last year, and I'm pretty sure the X series or 528 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: the Xbox X series came out, and before that, the 529 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: Xbox One came out. So I wonder, like, I wonder 530 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: why places even offering an Xbox three sixty as a 531 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: standard rental. Or maybe they just have so much inventory 532 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: of those they can get away with renting a bunch 533 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: of them out and they're making just a ton of 534 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: money back. I guess yeah, an Xbox right now on 535 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: Amazon is a hundred and fifteen bucks and it's refurbished. Weird. 536 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: You might not be surprised to learn that there are 537 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: lawsuits that become part of this. Tons of consumer advocate 538 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: organizations have combated the deceptive, misleading, and again not to 539 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: overuse the word just to accurately describe it predatory practices 540 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: used by the r T O rent to own industry. Uh. 541 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: A lot of these campaigns are seeking better state legislation. Uh, 542 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: there's talking about this obstucation of rates, these hidden fees, 543 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: these other deceptive methods, including unannounced attempts at repossession for 544 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: missing a payment, or places where the given franchise or 545 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: business purposely ignored a payment that was made on time. 546 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: They all say the same thing, and they all say 547 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: the same thing because they're right. The industry is targeting 548 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: the poor. It's perfect plan. If you're not worried about ethics. 549 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: If you just like to make money off of other people, 550 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: then you'll notice that the people who can't afford to 551 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: buy a sofa are also the people who probably cannot 552 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: afford to financial lawsuit. Judges agree. There are a lot 553 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: of successful lawsuits against rt O businesses in all sorts 554 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: of states. In a few states good news, they've led 555 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: to changes in laws, such as Minnesota, New Jersey, and Wisconsin. 556 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: I mean, heck, middle class people can't afford to finance 557 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: a lawsuit because you don't know how it's going to 558 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: drag on for you know, It's like I just had 559 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: a thing where my property manager from the last house 560 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: that I rented, one of those kind of you know, 561 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: big conglomo type ones, they decided in their infinite wisdom 562 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: not to return my security deposit for me, even though 563 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: I had done everything I was supposed to do, and 564 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,919 Speaker 1: it's it was five bucks because I got a move 565 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: in special. Am I gonna sue them over five bucks? No? 566 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: And they're banking on that, And I bet they do 567 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 1: this nine times out of ten, not give people their 568 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: security deposit back knowing that the amount in question isn't 569 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: going to be worth anybody's time to to actually take 570 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: them to court. So these are consumer groups fighting the 571 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,479 Speaker 1: good fight. These are businesses that, for their side, will 572 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: simply say they're satisfying a need in a market and 573 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: will quickly point out that they are not in fact 574 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,760 Speaker 1: breaking laws. That is true. But wouldever you hear about 575 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: something that seems off or unethical and is also at 576 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: the same time legal. It's honestly time, and this is 577 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,280 Speaker 1: just a personal opinion, it's honestly time to ask about 578 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: the authorship of those laws. Taking a break for word 579 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: from the sponsors, will return to ask whether or not 580 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: these businesses are setting customers up to fail. The answer 581 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: is yes. Uh, it seems it seems that these businesses 582 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: are indeed to some degree, building the idea of defaulting 583 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: on contracts into the business model. This doesn't happen, you know, 584 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: in the days of radio rental in the United Kingdom, 585 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: things weren't as dark, things weren't as predatory. Uh. So 586 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 1: it's time to ask why they took such a dark 587 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: turn in the United States. Was it a matter of 588 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:04,240 Speaker 1: something getting lost in translation? Uh? There's an interesting theory 589 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: in the research. Yeah, I mean again, this was sort 590 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: of before the advent of credit cards and uh even 591 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: credit report well, credit reporting bureaus sort of sprung up 592 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: more locally where things were done kind of on a 593 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,720 Speaker 1: case by case basis, and there wasn't like a national 594 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: database for it. And then I think around nineteen twelve 595 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,240 Speaker 1: there became sort of an association of credit reporting bureaus 596 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: and a standard for like collecting this kind of information. Um. 597 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 1: But at this point it wasn't quite as like codified. 598 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: It didn't really the Vico credit score really didn't start 599 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: until night the seventies. So like this, there they were 600 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: filling a need for a thing that would ultimately fill 601 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: that need later, but at that point didn't exist. And 602 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: when when credit cards start to become a mainstream thing 603 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: in the United States, especially around the ES, anyone with 604 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: a card in this new economy could purchase a dining 605 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: room set or a television or whatever that cardholder desired 606 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: without having cash on hand. Though yes, as student listeners, 607 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: they would go on to regret it in many cases. 608 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: There's a guy named Ernie Smith who as this blog 609 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: that is well worth the read. UH. Smith puts it 610 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: this way. Quote in the nineteen eighties, when rental own 611 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: places started to blossom and so Smith asked how they 612 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: handled this dichotomy. The answers Marcavellian level. Simple. They started 613 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: targeting certain demographics people without credit, people with bad credit. 614 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: Those folks need refrigerators, those folks need places to set 615 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,280 Speaker 1: just as well. And so places like rent a Center 616 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,439 Speaker 1: charge of premium for taking on financial risk. Understandable your 617 00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: banks do that to your lending institutions. You know, it's 618 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: how the game is played, to the point where some 619 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: people ask, why not play a different game? And this 620 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 1: is this is, to your point, Noel, quite similar to 621 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 1: the dangerous pay day loan model. It's fair to ask 622 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: whether people are being set up to fail. Would like 623 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: to draw everyone's attention to some excellent work by a 624 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: journalist named Jim Dwyer writing for the New York Times. 625 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,720 Speaker 1: Uh Dwyer rate made this great article looking at rent 626 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: a Center in particular. This was out in two thousand 627 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,879 Speaker 1: eight title for just a few dollars, more big TV 628 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:41,879 Speaker 1: and years of debt in Dwyer finds some pretty alarming examples. 629 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: One one case was a forty inch Bravia television forty 630 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: seven dollars and fifty one cents a week hundred and 631 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,479 Speaker 1: seventeen weeks, then the customer would own the set out right. 632 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,800 Speaker 1: Just for some quick math there, that's paying five thousand, 633 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: five d fifty eight dollars for that television. That would 634 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: be an interest rate is seventy one, and that would 635 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,399 Speaker 1: be illegal if it were alone. But it's not coming 636 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: out of your monthly paycheck. That's twos. And just to 637 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: sew up with why I was saying, uh emphasis here 638 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 1: um is ours, not his. In all other particulars, it 639 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: is much like a subprime mortgage for pullout sofas and 640 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 1: television sets. It's an accurate comparison. Well, and there there 641 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 1: are laws in place surrounding actual loans and what interest 642 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: rates are allowed to be. But this is like loopholing 643 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,320 Speaker 1: its way out of that whole you know calculation. Yeah, 644 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: So in the end, I guess guys, ultimately these places 645 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: just take the goods back from you if you can't pay, right, 646 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: Is there something else going on? What a fantastic setup, Yeah, 647 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: thank you. What happens when people can't pay It gets nasty, 648 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 1: way more nasty than you might one might reasonably assume. 649 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: I'd like to introduce the National Consumer Law Center, a 650 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: boring name, but they're doing good work. In twenty nineteen, 651 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 1: they came out with a report that's freely available online, 652 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: more than worth the read, especially if you find yourself 653 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: in some sort of good mood. It's called the rent 654 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: to own racket, using criminal courts to coerce payments from 655 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: vulnerable families. Uh. They found that every state in the 656 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: United States except for three, has a law that can 657 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: be used to criminalize the failure to return rental property, 658 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: which makes sense in terms of like renting a U haul. 659 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,879 Speaker 1: Let's say, right, and then I don't return the U haul. 660 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: I have stolen that truck, but I'm not renting that 661 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,359 Speaker 1: U haul with any sense that it's my property, even temporarily, 662 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,400 Speaker 1: Like I I know the deal and it's going to 663 00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: be for a couple of days and then it goes back. 664 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: And but if I just went nuts and went on 665 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,720 Speaker 1: the lamb and a U haul, I would fully expect 666 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,239 Speaker 1: to be put in jail for stealing a truck right 667 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,360 Speaker 1: as a question of criminal intent. And this is where 668 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: is where things. This is the fulcrum upon which this 669 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 1: stuff hinges. Vulnerable families and type budgets already can't buy 670 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: this stuff outright, would already not be able to take 671 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: out a personal loan from a bank in many cases, 672 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: and are much more vulnerable to compounding misfortunes loss of income, 673 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: rent increase, which a lot of people in the audience 674 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:39,320 Speaker 1: of encountered today, accidents or illness one of the leading 675 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: causes of bankruptcy in the United States, divorce right or 676 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: family member needs your help. This all adds up, and 677 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 1: of course there's very little assistance in this regard. So 678 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 1: what if you have already already This episode has established 679 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 1: that customers are off to paying thousands more than the 680 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: actual product is worth. So they're in cases where they 681 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,880 Speaker 1: have a TV that could be purchased somewhere for like 682 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: five hundred bucks. They've already paid bucks, but they haven't 683 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,799 Speaker 1: paid off their contract, and so they can't make good 684 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: on that contract. Now their television is getting taken back, 685 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: They're not getting any money. They may be taken to 686 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,919 Speaker 1: criminal court. We're not talking about a few people, They're 687 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,280 Speaker 1: about four point eight million US households that are annual 688 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,840 Speaker 1: rent own customers. You can I just add back to 689 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,480 Speaker 1: what you were saying about the vulnerability of these families 690 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 1: and the potential for an accident on economic misfortune. A 691 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: lot of these folks are like families literally like it's 692 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,239 Speaker 1: like grandmothers and grandparents living in house in small situations 693 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: perhaps where it's everything is quite hand to mouth, and 694 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: a lot of that is going into taking care of 695 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,360 Speaker 1: an elderly parent. So if that and I wouldn't be 696 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 1: surprised if it did entered into that calculation, those odds 697 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 1: of those bad things happening go up. Just the probability 698 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,920 Speaker 1: if you have an older person in the home, chances 699 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: are they could fall ill and then all of a sudden, 700 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:14,800 Speaker 1: Oh no, I've got to use the money I was 701 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 1: gonna I was paying rent a center for my TV 702 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: to now make sure grandma doesn't die. Sorry, bubbala, Uh, 703 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: we need to make good on the l c D. 704 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:30,759 Speaker 1: So just pray harder as brutal as that sounds, and 705 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 1: most people, being decent human beings, are going to choose 706 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: human lives over making a monthly payment on an over 707 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:44,760 Speaker 1: priced TV. Nearly four and five rent own customers earned 708 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:50,720 Speaker 1: less than forty dollars annually. There is intergenerational discrimination of play. 709 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 1: Three in five of the families or customers are uh 710 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 1: would would be self identified racial or ethnic minorities, and 711 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: I wonder or how much of this predatory activity could 712 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,719 Speaker 1: be targeted at people who maybe don't speak English as 713 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: a first language. Right, So like if if maybe I'm 714 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 1: thinking about the Buford Highway area where I'm from, like 715 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,560 Speaker 1: maybe you could target at Spanish families that don't understand 716 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,359 Speaker 1: the contract that they're getting into because it's written in 717 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 1: a language may perhaps that they don't speak. I'm not 718 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: saying that would be the same, you know, I'm not 719 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:27,840 Speaker 1: seeing it that way every time, or maybe is that 720 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,879 Speaker 1: way at all, but perhaps there would be a way 721 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 1: to take further advantage of people use that language barrier. Um. 722 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: I don't think there's any any question that that's going on. 723 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,719 Speaker 1: I feel like you could even use not necessarily an 724 00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: education barrier, but just someone who's not accustomed to reading 725 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,279 Speaker 1: a long contract that's you know, the kind of labrantine 726 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 1: um just hiding stuff in there. Even the types of 727 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,600 Speaker 1: loans that are relatively quote unquote above board, you know, 728 00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,920 Speaker 1: for folks who are relatively savvy and have good credit scores, 729 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: even those are tricksy in these same kinds of ways, 730 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,239 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Where it's like you know, 731 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,279 Speaker 1: I've I've told the story before where I got a 732 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,840 Speaker 1: you know, in house loan to buy a car, and 733 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:12,839 Speaker 1: they gave me the interest rate and I was like, 734 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 1: I looked up my credit report and I shouldn't be 735 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,839 Speaker 1: paying this high of a interest rate. Like, oh well, 736 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: if you had told us you wanted to pay a 737 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,719 Speaker 1: lower interest rate, we would Again, I'm like, what what 738 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,799 Speaker 1: are you talking about? You're like doing like your gas 739 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 1: lighting me right now, lockamolely upon request the one last 740 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,480 Speaker 1: quote to pull here without getting too far in the 741 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:41,920 Speaker 1: weeds quote, the industry, through industry friendly legislation, has largely 742 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 1: succeeded in maneuvering its contracts out of the range of 743 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:49,479 Speaker 1: most federal and state consumer protection laws. For the group 744 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 1: to unpack that one, this report argues with validation. We 745 00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 1: looked it up and confirmed it that rent own industry 746 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: is often writing the laws that are meant to regulate it. 747 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: The watchman are watching the watchman, you know, or the 748 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,279 Speaker 1: excuse me, the foxes are watching the henhouse, although that 749 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:19,279 Speaker 1: may be a dated reference. Apologies. Uh. It conspires to 750 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,760 Speaker 1: target low income folks while at the same time conspiring 751 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: throughout fits like ALEC American Legislative Exchange to right laws 752 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:36,160 Speaker 1: that remove commonplace reasonable protection, compounding with the high pressure 753 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:41,960 Speaker 1: tactics they're used to cow people into agreeing unknowingly, often 754 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,160 Speaker 1: with horrific loan terms. When they can't pay, they get 755 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,960 Speaker 1: dragged the criminal court. This is ruined innocent lives. Can 756 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:53,200 Speaker 1: you clarify to me like it isn't alone? Which is 757 00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,719 Speaker 1: why it's allowed to exist. It's that loophole we've been 758 00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,840 Speaker 1: talking about. They're not dragging them the criminal court because 759 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,799 Speaker 1: they have kept the pro pretty. They're dragging them because 760 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,239 Speaker 1: they've defaulted on the terms of the agreement. Right, So 761 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,799 Speaker 1: it would technically be often considered like a lease, a 762 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:16,400 Speaker 1: lease that's a sweetheart deal for the industry. The laws 763 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,200 Speaker 1: in many states have made no real distinction between a 764 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:25,240 Speaker 1: criminal intent to your you all example, noel uh someone 765 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 1: says uh. Someone says they are purposely renting a U 766 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,360 Speaker 1: haul to steal it for a bank heist, right, and 767 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,800 Speaker 1: then abandon it. That's criminal intent or an honest hardship 768 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,839 Speaker 1: falling behind on a payment, or worse yet, the nastiest 769 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: part bad faith move on the r t O company, 770 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: the rental own company is saying, let's be purposely incompetent 771 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,279 Speaker 1: let's not acknowledge that a payment has been made. It 772 00:47:55,400 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 1: gets into debt collector tactics, you know, harassing people, showing 773 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,560 Speaker 1: up at their house, loan sharks, thing in front of 774 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,640 Speaker 1: your kids, loan sharks. Stuff. Life in the US honestly 775 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,879 Speaker 1: just seems harder and harder for many people each year, 776 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,480 Speaker 1: and due to these honest to god legislative conspiracies, the 777 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 1: problem seems set to continue. There's a good argument to 778 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:23,279 Speaker 1: be made, primarily speculative, that this is part of a 779 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:27,520 Speaker 1: larger paradigm shift away from an ownership society to a 780 00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:33,360 Speaker 1: service society. It's it's moving. All things are moving in 781 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:38,040 Speaker 1: that direction, streaming, you know, subscription based things. There's like, 782 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,359 Speaker 1: you know, companies where you can rent clothes to try 783 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,359 Speaker 1: them out or whatever at a higher and you know, 784 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,319 Speaker 1: and there's there's all kinds of versions of it that 785 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: seem like they're utilitarian and in some way, but ultimately 786 00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,840 Speaker 1: it's just removing actual ownership of stuff from anybody, even 787 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,319 Speaker 1: the higher you know, income people. Pretty soon it'll be 788 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:05,120 Speaker 1: American homes for rent and errands present, the American furnished 789 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:10,360 Speaker 1: three bedroom, two bathroom, American dream or you know, whatever 790 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 1: it is. So it's just like the rental companies that 791 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about in these previous episodes. Along with the 792 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,759 Speaker 1: other episode we're gonna make out of this rent to 793 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 1: own houses. Um it is. It feels like the future, 794 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:28,120 Speaker 1: these massive corporations that don't want you to own anything whatsoever. Yeah, 795 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,600 Speaker 1: and the notes for this episode. There are examples like 796 00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:36,520 Speaker 1: DLC for cars, non game nerds, DLC is shorthand for 797 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:42,640 Speaker 1: downloadable content. It was a recent, recent, hilariously so realistic 798 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:47,640 Speaker 1: thing with BMW which started sully subscriptions for heated seats 799 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,200 Speaker 1: for eighteen dollars a month. The thing is the people 800 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:56,200 Speaker 1: targeted for these subscriptions their demographic. They were BMW owners 801 00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:00,160 Speaker 1: who had already purchased the BMW, which already had had 802 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,240 Speaker 1: the capability to heat the seats, were paying to turn 803 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,120 Speaker 1: on a function that already existed. Another example would be 804 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:12,319 Speaker 1: one of the first books pulled from Kendall's subscriptions or Purchases, 805 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:17,160 Speaker 1: No Kidding, True Story, George Orwell's or like, you know, 806 00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,800 Speaker 1: you might get a car that's serious XM radio capable, 807 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,799 Speaker 1: but they might give you a deal where you get 808 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,319 Speaker 1: it free for a couple of months, but then you 809 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,840 Speaker 1: have to pay for that subscription and that's, you know, 810 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,359 Speaker 1: part of it. Um. We mentioned a little bit at 811 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,239 Speaker 1: the top of the show how phones work now, um, 812 00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,719 Speaker 1: even with people with like really good credit scores, and 813 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,720 Speaker 1: like it's it's also obscured, like what is the phone 814 00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,719 Speaker 1: actually worth? How much am I paying for it in 815 00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:45,840 Speaker 1: the long term? And like I had a thing where 816 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,400 Speaker 1: I was paying that fee still even though I had 817 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,080 Speaker 1: already paid off the phone. But I was supposed to 818 00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,759 Speaker 1: know that I had and then go back to eight 819 00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,239 Speaker 1: C and C and say do a thing. There was 820 00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,800 Speaker 1: some step that I missed. Otherwise they just were taking 821 00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,239 Speaker 1: my money. And then where does that go? And they 822 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,480 Speaker 1: said it goes into the abyss. They didn't say that, 823 00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:10,840 Speaker 1: but that's essentially what it amounted to. There was no 824 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,799 Speaker 1: well yeah, but there's no like, oh, well put it 825 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,000 Speaker 1: towards the net. Nope, that that might You were supposed 826 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,680 Speaker 1: to do a thing and you didn't do it. Bizarre. 827 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,640 Speaker 1: If I could have one last little thing, we've talked 828 00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,400 Speaker 1: about the concept of sesame credit and how you you know, 829 00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,120 Speaker 1: are given this credit score that allows you to do 830 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,840 Speaker 1: certain things or not do certain things. I would argue 831 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,480 Speaker 1: that credit in America is not that much different because 832 00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:38,799 Speaker 1: in order to do certain things, you have to have 833 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,719 Speaker 1: money and you have to be able to get approved 834 00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,000 Speaker 1: for things. So even though we're burying it in like 835 00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,920 Speaker 1: approvals and credit score and all that, it's not that 836 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,560 Speaker 1: much different than saying, oh, your sesame credit score is 837 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,160 Speaker 1: too low, you can't get this flight. Well, if your 838 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,480 Speaker 1: actual credit score is low here, you can't get the 839 00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,920 Speaker 1: flight either because you don't have the money. On on 840 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:03,080 Speaker 1: the Sesame credit episode years back. Yeah, it's a glasshouse situation. 841 00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:08,280 Speaker 1: And with that, hope you enjoyed today's episode. Though enjoy 842 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,880 Speaker 1: is a tricky word here. Unfortunately, there are many people 843 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:16,600 Speaker 1: listening today, fellow listeners who have personally experienced this. Would 844 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,880 Speaker 1: love to hear your stories. Would love to hear what 845 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,439 Speaker 1: you think. Is this a case of caveat and tour 846 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:27,960 Speaker 1: buyer beware? Is this a case of businesses using existing 847 00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:33,920 Speaker 1: power to further suppress the future of people who are 848 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,759 Speaker 1: not as wealthy. Would love to hear thoughts. Try to 849 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,200 Speaker 1: be easy to find online. It's sure you can find 850 00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,160 Speaker 1: us all over the internet. We're on Facebook where we 851 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,600 Speaker 1: have a group called Here's where it Gets Crazy, Twitter 852 00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:48,319 Speaker 1: and YouTube at the handle conspiracy Stuff on Instagram or 853 00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,920 Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff show. Hey, we have a phone number. Do 854 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,480 Speaker 1: you want to call us? The number is one eight 855 00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,640 Speaker 1: three three std w y t K. It is a 856 00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,759 Speaker 1: voicemail system. You will hear Ben's voice than a beat. 857 00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:04,440 Speaker 1: Then please give yourself a cool nickname and you've got 858 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,560 Speaker 1: three minutes. Say whatever you'd like. Please do let us 859 00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,640 Speaker 1: know if we can use your voice and message on 860 00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,520 Speaker 1: the air at some point in that message. If you 861 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,600 Speaker 1: don't want to use your phone to call, why not 862 00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:18,600 Speaker 1: instead send us an email. We are conspiracy at iHeart 863 00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:39,520 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want you to Know 864 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,759 Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts 865 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,960 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 866 00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,920 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.