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Speaker 1: On the dol Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef and best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bedl Cast. Hey, Jamie, Hey Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: I have a secret. Okay, do you know how you

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Speaker 1: think that I'm your co host of the Bechtel Cast. Well,

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Speaker 1: I've actually I'm actually a spy and I'm really from

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Speaker 1: the Daily Zeite guys. Oh my god, you've been filtereded.

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Speaker 1: But wait a minute, wait that wait, there's there more.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute. At the end, I'm double crossing the

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Speaker 1: Daily Zeite guys, and I'm actually from behind the bastards.

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Speaker 1: And then at the end, you get on a plane

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Speaker 1: and Robert Evans is sitting on the plane and he goes,

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Speaker 1: you're back, Oh my god, what a twitch aw. I

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Speaker 1: know that was honestly a less confused that that would

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Speaker 1: be less confusing to me than the ending of a tomic. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: If you just got on a plane and Robert was

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Speaker 1: there and he said, ha ha, I can't believe you

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Speaker 1: called me a name, you a little scamp, And you

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Speaker 1: said it's all a part of the job. Better go

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Speaker 1: back to Cleveland or wherever the CIA is located. Where

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Speaker 1: is the CIA? I don't even know. I was Langley, Langley. Yes,

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Speaker 1: my boyfriend knew that, and he's like, everybody knows that

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Speaker 1: CIA is at Langley. I was like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: the CIA is at Langley. I don't even know what

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Speaker 1: Langley is. Where is it? What is Langley? It's a

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Speaker 1: city Virginia. I only know this because of the American Dad.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a true or like they

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Speaker 1: just say it all the time. But yeah, whoa, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had no. I was like, Langley could be a person,

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Speaker 1: could be a place. Wuld be an idea Langley? Apparently

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Speaker 1: there's so much in this movie that that they think

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Speaker 1: is common knowledge, but it is not for me. You

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Speaker 1: and Robert have to get back to Langley. Yes we do,

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Speaker 1: and we're on our way. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which I am not actually a part of. And and

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Speaker 1: I'm I can't say anything because I'm dead. You killed

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Speaker 1: me and then got on Robert's plane. Yeah, anyway, this

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Speaker 1: is the Bechtel Cast, which I am loyal to it,

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Speaker 1: so for now, for now, but this is our show

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Speaker 1: where we analyze movies from an intersectional feminist lens, using

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Speaker 1: the Bechdel tests simply as a jumping off point. Jamie

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Speaker 1: explain the Bechtel test to me in the most confusing

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Speaker 1: way possible, in the spirit of Atomic Blonde. Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: the Bechtel test is allegedly media metric invented by queer

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Speaker 1: cartoonist Alson backed l sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test,

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Speaker 1: in which theoretically you would think that two named characters

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Speaker 1: of a marginalized gender talk about something other than a

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Speaker 1: man for two lines of dialogue or more, unless at

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Speaker 1: the end they it turns out they talk about men

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Speaker 1: the whole time, and then they get on a plane

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Speaker 1: and John Gubbins on the plane, and then they go

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Speaker 1: to Langley. Okay, I I followed. I don't think I

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Speaker 1: followed that. But the Bechtel test could be double crossing

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Speaker 1: itself and it's actually men. It's actually been about men

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Speaker 1: this whole time. It's actually been about men the whole time,

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Speaker 1: and then it's triple crossed and it's actually been about um,

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Speaker 1: it's actually been about I don't know, I don't know. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's the and I think we've like, we've brought this

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Speaker 1: up here and there on the podcast, but the Bechtel

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Speaker 1: test is still about men because it's about how women

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Speaker 1: are not are not talking about men, but it is

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Speaker 1: thereby still men are still part of the equation at

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Speaker 1: the center of the test. Yeah, you can't explain the

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Speaker 1: Betel test when talking about the Chtel test. Well, anyways,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about atomic blonde today. That's that's just the truth.

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Speaker 1: And you have an amazing guest, we sure do. She

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Speaker 1: is the host of Kicking and Screaming podcast. She's a

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Speaker 1: host at l Ray Network, and you remember her from

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Speaker 1: our Maid in Manhattan episode. It's Vanessa Guerra. Hello, Hello,

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Speaker 1: thank you for having me back. I love that Maide

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Speaker 1: in Manhattan episode so much because it was the first

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Speaker 1: time I discover the power of a four loco on

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Speaker 1: an empty stomach. Incredible. Did I didn't even know you

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Speaker 1: could still buy four locos? I remember because I had

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Speaker 1: fourhand run into Jamie at a gas station and I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, that sounds delicious, that will happen. So

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Speaker 1: I got a four logo and I got a hot

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Speaker 1: dog and I was just like having both too quickly

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Speaker 1: backstage and like the second I came out and like

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Speaker 1: heard the audience. I was like, oh no, I have

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Speaker 1: a buzz going uh. And then by the end of it,

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Speaker 1: I just remember getting to the conclusion of Maide in

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Speaker 1: Manhattan is the case for communism. Uh, It'll be way

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Speaker 1: easier to get to that conclusion in this episode. It's

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Speaker 1: built in here versus in how j Lo and y

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Speaker 1: Fine are the least sexy couple that's ever existed. Oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, god, I does maybe want to go back

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Speaker 1: and and rewatch Maide in Manhattan in solidarity with j

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Speaker 1: Lo as she as she traverses this breakup. You know? Ah, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: what are we to a tomics want? I was actually

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Speaker 1: pretty hype to talk about something action and fighting related,

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Speaker 1: since that's just most of what half of what I

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Speaker 1: talked about these days. So what's your what's your relationship

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Speaker 1: and history with Atomic Blonde? So I'm actually really excited

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Speaker 1: to talk about specifically what happened the day I went

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Speaker 1: to go see it, because it just boils down my

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Speaker 1: like general frustration with just trying to enjoy this movie

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Speaker 1: in Peace around Men, but my like general history is

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Speaker 1: I was very excited to watch it because I am

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Speaker 1: a big fan of the director whose last name I

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Speaker 1: can never figure out how to pronounced David Leech, like licked.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to the laked because I like it, but

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Speaker 1: having been a big fan of his and in general,

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Speaker 1: just whenever a stunt coordinator takes the director helm for

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Speaker 1: an action movie, because that's typically where you're going to

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Speaker 1: see that action look good, especially considering he made his

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Speaker 1: debut as a co director for John Wick and that

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Speaker 1: was gorgeous and basically like brought back the action star

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Speaker 1: where the genre had been like pretty dead because uh,

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Speaker 1: like the Born Identity and Taken had killed it. Uh

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Speaker 1: because you just had these movies with like dudes that

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Speaker 1: don't know how to move and like shaky handheld cameras

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Speaker 1: and it was just basically sucking the fun out of

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Speaker 1: action that like had existed during like the gen Claude

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Speaker 1: van dam era and so like when they announced Atomic Blond,

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Speaker 1: I was just like, hell, yeah, Charlie's has been wanting

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Speaker 1: to do actions since like Eon Flux, because I know,

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Speaker 1: like when that was the thing, she was like learning

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Speaker 1: Kuipawa and saying that she wanted to like be a

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Speaker 1: martial arts star. And uh, when I went to go

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Speaker 1: see Atomic Blonde. I remember I went with like a

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Speaker 1: couple of win in my life that are also like

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Speaker 1: huge like action martial arts, like spy fans um one

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Speaker 1: who was a fan of none of them but was

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Speaker 1: just extremely queer and like their sty for Shortley's. And

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Speaker 1: we went with like our token dude friend and the

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Speaker 1: set and we left the theater we're like talking about like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that fight scene was fun, Oh this was cool. This

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Speaker 1: was interesting, not like you know, that was amazing, because

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Speaker 1: like there's a lot of convoluted plot stuff, but like

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Speaker 1: when you watch action, you're watching like the great choreography,

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Speaker 1: and then there's some stuff in the middle, as with

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Speaker 1: like any great action movie, like I dare you to

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Speaker 1: tell me the plot of like police Story, Um, nobody remembers,

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Speaker 1: nobody cares because you're there for the punching. But the

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Speaker 1: dude that we were with could not stop analyzing every

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Speaker 1: single scene based on what he thought we thought of it.

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Speaker 1: So he kept giving like his like you know, like

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Speaker 1: this is me being like the WoT good guy reads

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Speaker 1: of everything, and so in the middle of our enjoyment,

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Speaker 1: it kepting like, well, was it like a Jane Wick

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Speaker 1: or is it like a Tinker Taylor, soldier, spy or

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Speaker 1: is it supposed to be like a bond thing? And

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Speaker 1: every time I've ever tried to have a conversation about

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Speaker 1: this movie anywhere, it just becomes men comparing it to

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Speaker 1: things that exist that can't just let it be when

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Speaker 1: they do that. And is my general frustration about like

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Speaker 1: just talking about women in action in general. That's so

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Speaker 1: interesting because we haven't done a ton of action movies

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Speaker 1: on the show. We've done We've done several, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: there is always that tendency. I mean, just it's like

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Speaker 1: such a male saturated genre that do you do you

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Speaker 1: have a favorite action movie with with a female lead.

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Speaker 1: There's a few, especially when you go towards like Shaw

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Speaker 1: Brothers Martial Arts movies, so like less action, but like

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Speaker 1: you know, still on the Martial Arts vein, Uh, you

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Speaker 1: have My Young Auntie, which is a it's basically like

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Speaker 1: Kung Fu Pride and Prejudice, which is amazing. There's a

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Speaker 1: huge like fleet of just women that were like incredible

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Speaker 1: and like the Shaw Brothers library, or you have like

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Speaker 1: a lot of like Cynthia roth rock Work or Michelle

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Speaker 1: Yo because you know, she's mostly known for like Crouching Tiger,

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Speaker 1: Hidden Dragon, and then uh it was the one that

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Speaker 1: she did recently, Crazy Rittasians. But you know, she already

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Speaker 1: had this amazing lineup. But it's interesting because I feel

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Speaker 1: like action, for how much it's like talked about as

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Speaker 1: male saturated in the seventies and eighties, there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of female action stars that don't really get their flowers.

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Speaker 1: And then now when we're having the same conversations, it's

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Speaker 1: usually because it's just like actors that can't really fight

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Speaker 1: and they're like replaced by a celebrity versus just like

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Speaker 1: these incredible stunt women that are still working and performing

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Speaker 1: and that are good actors. Honestly, it's there's I don't

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Speaker 1: know that much about the history of the genre, and

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Speaker 1: that gives me a lot of peace to know that

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Speaker 1: there are there are eras of the genre that are

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Speaker 1: like really female dominated. But it's it's I feel like,

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Speaker 1: you know, when we were growing up, there was not

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Speaker 1: that much in the mainstream at least. Yeah, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like how it's kind of like how a lot

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Speaker 1: of women found themselves in horror where it like double

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Speaker 1: backed on something that was four men, but women were

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Speaker 1: like no this is mine now with like the final

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Speaker 1: girl thing except action and martial arts. Version of that

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Speaker 1: was the girls with Guns genre, where like there's an

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Speaker 1: entire like if you look up girls with guns, it's like,

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Speaker 1: especially in Japan, there is a big like genre push

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Speaker 1: of just like here's three ladies and they're just an

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Speaker 1: elite action team. And it was one of those things

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Speaker 1: where it's like, yeah, it was originally created four men,

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Speaker 1: and then women were like, this is mine. Youink love

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Speaker 1: when they do that. I'm so excited to learn more

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Speaker 1: about the because I know, like you're an expert and

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Speaker 1: you know a ton about it. I'm very excited to

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Speaker 1: learn more today because this is this is in terms

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Speaker 1: of just general knowledge, I am weak on action and

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Speaker 1: physically weak. Oh god, same the amount of jars that

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Speaker 1: I have to request open and then like for me,

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Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of this genre, but almost all

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Speaker 1: of my favorite action movies are male driven stories starring

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Speaker 1: you know, male action heroes, so I I am not

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Speaker 1: well enough versed in more like female centric action movies.

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Speaker 1: So I was excited about this movie when it came

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Speaker 1: out for that reason, and I remember like seeing the

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Speaker 1: trailers for it, and I already love Charlie's, so I

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Speaker 1: was like, I can't wait for this And then I

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Speaker 1: saw it in theaters and was confused by the plot.

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Speaker 1: But I was like, holy sh it, Charlie's as an

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Speaker 1: action movie star is undeniable, just so awesome, and she's

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of her own stunts in this movie.

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Speaker 1: I was just like blown away by the action sequences

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Speaker 1: and the fight choreography and like what she's capable of

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Speaker 1: because like, again, I hadn't seen that much, especially fighting

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Speaker 1: like that because you see you see like and we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about this, but like the fight choreography that women

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Speaker 1: are often made to do in action movies is they

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Speaker 1: wrap their legs around a man's face and then pussy

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Speaker 1: slammed them to the floor. And there's like none of

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Speaker 1: that in this movie. And yeah, so I was just

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Speaker 1: like I was blown away by the action scenes, um

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Speaker 1: and confused by the narrative. So that's my relationship with

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Speaker 1: this movie, Jay, what about you. I had never seen

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Speaker 1: this movie. I remember being excited. I remember the trailer

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Speaker 1: for this movie was a big deal because it was like,

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Speaker 1: I think that the trailer for this movie was mostly

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Speaker 1: just a fight scene to be like it's a movie

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Speaker 1: about Charlie's Saryn kicking the ship out of people, which

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Speaker 1: was thrilling for me. I didn't see it when it

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Speaker 1: came out, and then I just I feel like this

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Speaker 1: movie kind of like it didn't do super well at

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Speaker 1: the box office. I feel like it didn't pop the

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Speaker 1: way that you would think it would. But then watching it,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's the action is fucking incredible, it's terrifying,

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Speaker 1: it's so and then reading about like, I'm the relationship

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Speaker 1: I'm rooting for in this movie as Charlie's there on

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Speaker 1: any action genre. Um more so than the characters, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what's going on with them. I had to

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Speaker 1: google Atomic Blonde ending explained it was confusing to be

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Speaker 1: but the action was great and I'm excited to talk

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Speaker 1: about it. Like surely is Sara needed to get like

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Speaker 1: dental surgery in the middle of this production because she

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Speaker 1: just was like kicking ass so much. She was literally

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Speaker 1: clenching her jaw so hard, and like, if you look

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Speaker 1: at every production she's ever done action wise, like she's

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Speaker 1: like Kianu in the sense of like those are actors

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Speaker 1: that would you wouldn't like call the martial arts stars

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Speaker 1: the way you would call like somebody that's in the

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Speaker 1: genre like echo wise or I'm trying to remember the

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Speaker 1: name of the woman who's getting her own sequel from

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Speaker 1: The Night Comes for Us, but she's there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of women in The Night Comes for Us that have

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Speaker 1: like some of the best action martial arts sequences, and

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Speaker 1: like I want to see them getting more work. But

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Speaker 1: like in terms of like actors that actually like give

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Speaker 1: a ship about martial arts, like every production, Charlie's is like,

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Speaker 1: I want to learn judo, I want to learn cape Era,

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Speaker 1: I want to learn you know. She was actually training

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Speaker 1: with John Wicks and the John Wick with Kiano since

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Speaker 1: John Wick two was in production around the time. I

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Speaker 1: loved that fact that they were training together and we're friends.

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Speaker 1: I was like, that's so beautiful and wholesome. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: like the director himself, who was a stunt choreographer so

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Speaker 1: he's worked with everyone, has said Charlie's throne is in

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Speaker 1: the top one percent of actors that want to like

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Speaker 1: do their own stunts and stunt work, because she did

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Speaker 1: have a stunt double for like certain scenes where it

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Speaker 1: was just completely like out of her skill set, like

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Speaker 1: jumping out of a window. I believe it was a

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Speaker 1: woman named Monique. I can't remember her name, but her

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Speaker 1: experience with it was also like, because there's this thing

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Speaker 1: that I like to call the Tom Cruise effect in action,

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Speaker 1: where an actor insists on doing his own stunts, but

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Speaker 1: if it's something that can like get him her said

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Speaker 1: production back doesn't matter. If it's him that can't see

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Speaker 1: his face, that can like take a million takes, set

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Speaker 1: a crew back, and won't look any different other than

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Speaker 1: just the ego of saying I've done my old stunts.

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Speaker 1: And like, if you listen to any of Charlie's stunt doubles,

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Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, she knows when to call us in

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Speaker 1: and be like, I'm not doing this one. Someone else

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Speaker 1: should because I'm not going to do that in the

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Speaker 1: amount of takes that it needs to be. But if

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Speaker 1: it's you know, my face and if you're seeing it,

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Speaker 1: then I'm going to be there to sell it. And

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Speaker 1: that's why her stunt doubles have such a better experience

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Speaker 1: with her than like a lot of men that are

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Speaker 1: insistent on doing all their own stunts and instead just

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Speaker 1: set production back. Hearing stories about Charlie's and always like

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Speaker 1: is I feel like there's a lot of stories like

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Speaker 1: that with her because she with Mad Max. The thing

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Speaker 1: that always stuck with me was that, um, what's his name,

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Speaker 1: Tom Hardy? Is that a man's name, Tom Hardy? Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, Tom Hardy. For the life of me, I

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Speaker 1: just can't remember him. People say he's talented, I just

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Speaker 1: can't remember who the man is. So but on the

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Speaker 1: set of Mad Max, Tom Hardy was like going super method,

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Speaker 1: you know, he was just he was just being Mad Max.

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Speaker 1: Where as Charlie's her own who stole that movie right

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Speaker 1: out from under him. Um would just act when the

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Speaker 1: camera was on and then because it was like most

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Speaker 1: male method actors, Tom Hardy was like using this to

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Speaker 1: be a fucking asshole to everyone working with him, and

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Speaker 1: Charlie's was like she I think she was asked about it,

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Speaker 1: and She's like, no, I just do the job when

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Speaker 1: the cameras on, and then I stopped, and then I'm

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Speaker 1: nice to people like yeah, exactly, I if you're a

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Speaker 1: good actor, that's possible, and you're not a good actor,

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Speaker 1: and then I'm like whatever, I mean, like, if you

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Speaker 1: want to do method for you know, your craft or whatever, like,

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Speaker 1: but don't I just hate when it's used as an

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Speaker 1: excuse to be ad dick to people, because it feels

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Speaker 1: like that's where it usually goes. What about yelling at

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Speaker 1: a p A is going to make this movie better

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Speaker 1: for you? Right right? Yeah? The only actor who should

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Speaker 1: be going method and like staying in that character all

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Speaker 1: the time is Ben Wishaw as Paddington. Yeah, or Al

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Speaker 1: from Molina with dot Dog. I'd let him kill me.

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Speaker 1: So it's just spitfalling. Um. But yeah, Charlie's is great.

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Speaker 1: I feel like for I mean, we're gonna be talking

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Speaker 1: about a lot today. I am so interested Kaitlin to

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Speaker 1: hear what your plot this is going to be, because

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Speaker 1: I think honestly I'll learn. I Well, let me just

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Speaker 1: give this disclaimer. This recap might not make any sense

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Speaker 1: because again I'm not sure how clearly I understand this movie,

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Speaker 1: but I did. I did watch it twice to prep

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Speaker 1: for this episode. I really did my best to make

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Speaker 1: this recap as clear as possible. But shrug, who knows

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Speaker 1: how it's gonna go. Um. So, yes, here's the recap.

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Speaker 1: We are in Berlin. It's November, right before the fall

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Speaker 1: of the Berlin War. Yep, let me try that again

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Speaker 1: everything's gone great. Right before the fall of the Berlin Wall,

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Speaker 1: we see a man, James Gascoyn get murdered by a

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Speaker 1: KGB agent named boxed In. Then we cut to Lorraine.

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Speaker 1: That's Charlie's Theron or Throne. Everyone's name in this episode

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Speaker 1: is just going to really trip me up. It has

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Speaker 1: a little bit of accent on everything. So that's why

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Speaker 1: I'm always like, Charlie's is in London. She's in London,

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Speaker 1: she's all bugged up, She's drinking vodka on ice, which gross,

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Speaker 1: and her hair is atomic blonde. She's British Intelligence. So

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Speaker 1: like M I six, I had to google M I

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Speaker 1: sex is that is that? I think that's roughly equivalent

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Speaker 1: to like American CIA. Okay, that's what I learned. Julie

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Speaker 1: childs in an early version of that, right, Okay, if

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Speaker 1: the once it becomes Julia Child trivia, then I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh wait, now we're speaking my language. And she goes

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Speaker 1: to a debriefing where Toby Jones is there and so

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Speaker 1: is John Goodman from the CIA, and they're like, hey, Lorraine,

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Speaker 1: what happened in Berlin? And then the movie cuts back

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Speaker 1: and forth between this like debriefing and flashbacks of like

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Speaker 1: what's actually happening in the story. What would have been

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Speaker 1: really helpful is if Toby Jones and John Goodman turned

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Speaker 1: to camera and recapped the Cold War. It would have

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Speaker 1: been super nice because this plot requires that you have

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Speaker 1: a pretty thorough understanding of the Cold War, the allegiance

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Speaker 1: is and exactly what was going on at the end

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Speaker 1: of Um. Yes, I admittedly know so little about the

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Speaker 1: Cold War that I am embarrassed to admit how little

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Speaker 1: I know about it. Um. I know that it was

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Speaker 1: something about communism, and I know a little bit more

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Speaker 1: now because I found a website that is, um, the

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Speaker 1: Cold War Explained for Children. So, um, I found this

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Speaker 1: really helpful resource that explains to children what the Cold

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Speaker 1: War was linken in the description, and now I have

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Speaker 1: a slightly better understanding. But um, yeah, I just I

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Speaker 1: did not learn about this in history class and I

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Speaker 1: don't know anything about it. Iconic, Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: UM Okay, So then we flash back to ten days earlier,

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Speaker 1: where Toby Jones is explaining to Lorraine that immunity has

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Speaker 1: been promised to a Stazzi officer code named Spy Glass

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Speaker 1: in exchange for a document a k a. The List,

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Speaker 1: which is hidden in a wristwatch, which contains names of

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Speaker 1: every active clandestine officer currently in Berlin and all of

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Speaker 1: the shady things that they're into. I do kind of

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Speaker 1: love that. I love the riddle inside of a riddle.

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Speaker 1: It's all very I was like, Oh, I feel smart.

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Speaker 1: It's like national treasure. There's a clue inside a clue

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Speaker 1: inside a clue. It's like the Davini code capin and

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Speaker 1: then you put the word apple in and it goes,

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Speaker 1: guess what, that's the DA code. Good grief? Okay, so

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Speaker 1: this is And then they say like that this is information,

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Speaker 1: if it falls into the wrong hands, will extend the

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Speaker 1: Cold War for another forty years. She's like the stakes

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Speaker 1: are high, really high stake groundhogs Day. Yeah, So they

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Speaker 1: think the man who killed Gascoyne at the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the movie now has this list and everyone's looking for him,

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Speaker 1: including Perceval. That's James McAvoy who is in Berlin. And

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Speaker 1: then I think it's a flashback flashback to him talking

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Speaker 1: to Spyglass telling him that Gascoyne never showed up with

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Speaker 1: the list. But Spyglass is like, hey, don't worry I

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Speaker 1: memorized it. So then Lorraine heads to Berlin to link

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Speaker 1: up with Perceval. There's a mysterious woman who is following her.

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Speaker 1: There's a few fight scenes where like the kg BE

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Speaker 1: pretending to be British intelligence show up and try to

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Speaker 1: trick her, but she beats the ship out of them

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Speaker 1: with a shoe. It's so good. Um. Meanwhile, backed in,

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Speaker 1: the guy with the list didn't report to his like

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Speaker 1: Soviet pals, the main guy there being Bremovich um, and

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Speaker 1: they're realized that he's going to basically betray them and

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Speaker 1: sell it on the black market. Then we cut back

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Speaker 1: to Lorraine. She's trying to find this list, but there's

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Speaker 1: also this Traders double agent with code name Satchell, who

403
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Speaker 1: is on the list and who Lorraine is trying to

404
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Speaker 1: expose or keep hidden. I don't know. And it's at

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Speaker 1: this point in the movie where I'm like, oh, there's

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Speaker 1: too many there's too many mcguffins, and I'm going to

407
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Speaker 1: get confused really soon one of those like okay, there's

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Speaker 1: a there's a list inside of a watch, but now

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Speaker 1: there's Satchel and I'm going to get lost. I think

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Speaker 1: I was already pretty lost by this point, at least

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Speaker 1: on my the first time watching this movie also, and like, wait,

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Speaker 1: what is the Cold War? I have no idea. It's

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Speaker 1: been explained to me, and like basketball, I haven't retained it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've like I've definitely read about it. I've like read

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Speaker 1: the cold War Wikipedia page. But it's like one of

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Speaker 1: those things that, like the second like I hit X

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Speaker 1: on the wikipedie page, I've forgotten everything I just learned,

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Speaker 1: so gone. Do you want to know? It's really embarrassing. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I took a two year course in high school on

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Speaker 1: the Cold War. I don't know what it is. I

421
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Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. I didn't retain any of

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00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: it and I was too busy having crushes. All I

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Speaker 1: know is there's a piece of it in a Vegas bathroom. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a urinal in a Vegas bathroom. I

425
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: can't remember like what hotel has it, but that's exciting.

426
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: I love a cold War artifact. Um. Yeah, So for

427
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: anyone who's like listening to this episode and like hoping

428
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: to get some context for the Cold War, yell at doesn't.

429
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: This is not a cold war podcast, Okay, jeez. Anyway,

430
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: So Lorraine goes somewhere to find answers, and this woman

431
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: who has been following her approaches Lorraine. Her name is

432
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: Delphine Lacel, and she's like, hey, meet me at this

433
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: club tomorrow night. And we're like, oh, they're fining, they're vibing.

434
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: Then there's something with a watchmaker and a watch, but

435
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: not the watch with the list on it. It's a

436
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: different watch. And Lorraine is given a new contact to

437
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,239
Speaker 1: pursue in East Berlin, like an ally that she can

438
00:26:55,320 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: trust because she does not trust Percival's contacts. And she

439
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: goes to East Berlin and meets with this contact, Merkel

440
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: a k a. Bill Scars Guard who looks to meet

441
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: a lot like Steve BUSHEMMI was anyone else getting that

442
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: he does, and that makes sense as to why I

443
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: find him attractive, because I'm like, I shamelessly am Helen

444
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: into like the big I thing, and I've always had

445
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: a long time like boushemy thing, and I couldn't figure

446
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: out why Scars guard is like the most appealing of

447
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: the Scars guards to me. Bill I mean, and the

448
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: boushemy thing makes sense now that he he is kind

449
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: of serving some young bush emmy. I have such a

450
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: crush on Bill scars Card. I'm like as Pennywise, not

451
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: as Pennyway. It doesn't matter, Yeah, it doesn't matter. Like

452
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: in this movie specifically, he looks the most like Berlin

453
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: punk kid in the way that like you'd meet somewhere

454
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 1: and just be like, ha ha ha, I'm going to

455
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: ignore all my friends to talk to you. Does let

456
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 1: him like ruin your life for a couple of exactly,

457
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: drop everything and be like, wow, my life's and shambles.

458
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: But here's Bill scars Guard. He has that face anyway.

459
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: So then so then Lorraine goes to this club that

460
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: Delphine told her about, and Lorraine and Delphine start making out.

461
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: But oh wait, Delphine works for French intelligence, and I'm like,

462
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: whose side are they on? In the Cold War? How

463
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: would I know that? There? You know, from what I

464
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: could gather, like the US, England, West Germany and French

465
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: were all allied together. Okay, so they're all on the Okay,

466
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: so the French I just was like, is France randomly

467
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: going rogue and there with East Berlin? So then okay, sorry,

468
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop. So yeah, she's she's an ally. So

469
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: that's like kind of a point of contention for a moment,

470
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: but then they're like, well, just keep kissing, and then

471
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: they have sex, and then Delphine tells Lorraine some secret

472
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: information about Perceval, which I think we never find out

473
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: what it was by the end of the movie. So

474
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: question was trying to figure that out too, van Asa,

475
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: do you know? Yeah, I've been trying to figure it out.

476
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: I have a theory because, like by this point, she

477
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: hasn't taken that photo yet, I think because later on

478
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: there's that photo she takes of Perceval. So my theory

479
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: is either like she was following him or Personval hired

480
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: her to follow Lorraine, because why else with like an agent,

481
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: as a novice as Delphine, who's only been doing it

482
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: for like a year, and like you know, she like

483
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: makes a lot of like rookie mistakes, So why else

484
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: would someone like her like catch on to where Lorraine

485
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: is and who she is unless she was like tipped off.

486
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: So that's what I think. I think personal might have

487
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: like hired her because she's there at the airport when

488
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: Lorraine arrives in Berlin. Yeah, that makes sense. Poor, I

489
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: I wish that we got uh more Delphine just I

490
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: I liked how she was, like, yeah, I thought I

491
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: would like spy for a couple of years after college.

492
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: But I'm kind of in over my head. It's like

493
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: she's treating being an international spy like it's teach for America.

494
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, what are you doing? What are you doing?

495
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: You don't know? You're not suited to this job. I'm like,

496
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: there's a whole there's a whole slapstick comedy in that

497
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: sentence alone. Yeah, I know, basically spy too. I want

498
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: her character and spy too. Yeah, where's like, where's the

499
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: rom com version of this where it's just like Lorraine

500
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: and Delphine having a comedy of errors falling in love

501
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: and not knowing who's who. There's a lot of stuff

502
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: there because it's like, oh if a if a if

503
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: an experienced spy falls in love with a rookie spy,

504
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: that's such a bad look for her, and like, oh

505
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: how embarrassing. Oh my god, I love Okay, I would

506
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: watch let's write it. Yeah, so into this um okay.

507
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: So meanwhile, Perceval finds Bockton, kills him and takes the

508
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: watch with the list on it, but he doesn't tell

509
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: Lorrain that he has it when they meet up to

510
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: make arrangements to escort Spyglass to West Berlin because they're

511
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: providing like safe passage to him and his family to

512
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: the west. And then shortly after that, this is when

513
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: we also see Perceval colluding with the Soviets. He's talking

514
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: to what's the guy's name, Bremovich, and so things seem

515
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: pretty shady there. The more last names that it introduced

516
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: to stuff, the harder of a time I have, which

517
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: is why I never got into Game of Thrones in general.

518
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: Anything that has a lot of names is a tough

519
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: one for me, especially because there's so many like code

520
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: names to or like names of people who you don't

521
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: know what code name applies to what person. And it's

522
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: why I've never been sober for a Bond film. I

523
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: just let it take me. You need It's so like

524
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: and then if and then the answer to your question

525
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: of like who is that is always like, oh, it's

526
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: the guy with the beard, and then you're like, well,

527
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: that's actually really not helpful. There's forty of them. They

528
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: just come on and off, but wherever they want. I

529
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: also didn't okay, this was like a totally stray observation.

530
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: But the moment where John Goodman shows up at the

531
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: top of the Berlin Wall and he's wearing a hat,

532
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: I almost didn't recognize him. I'm like, have I ever

533
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: seen John Goodman in a hat? He was unrecognizable to

534
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: me in that hat. Interesting does he wear hats? Listeners

535
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: sound off in the comments, I don't know that I've

536
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: ever seen the man wear a hat. Maybe an inside

537
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: luland Davis. I think I distinctly think in the backseat

538
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: of a car he might be wearing a hat. But

539
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: also that character has like I'm wearing a hat energy, right.

540
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: I'm just like, God, I feel like I had just

541
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: John Goodman is so and he's like amazing, but he's

542
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: so John Goodman in all of his roles, and I

543
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: was just completely thrown by seeing him in a winter hat,

544
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: and I was like, that's not the man I've come

545
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: to love. I knew the shape of his head. Yeah,

546
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: It's like, where's the top of that head? John? Anyways,

547
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: a lot of brilliant observations keep him coming. Jamie John

548
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: Goodman hat three question marks, I'll mark that off. I

549
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: think I pay my point. Oh God, Okay, um So. Meanwhile,

550
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: Perceval and Lorraine go to East Berlin to meet up

551
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: with Spyglass to get him safely to the west, except

552
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: there are a bunch of Soviet snipers targeting Spyglass. They

553
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: are unsuccessful, but Perceval shoots Spyglass, which no one sees.

554
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: So now we're like, yeah, definitely, Perceval is maybe not

555
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: a good guy here. That guy we'd keep hearing is

556
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: the bad guy. He might be the bad guy, might

557
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: be bad guy. Yeah. So then following that is when

558
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: they we get this like he like ten minute long,

559
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: amazingly choreographed fight sequence. She finds the Soviets, kicks the

560
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: ship out of them for ten minutes. She and Spyglass

561
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: escaped temporarily, but then Spyglass is killed when their car

562
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 1: is kind of thrown into a river and he drowns.

563
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 1: Um So, now Lorraine believes Perceval to be a double agent.

564
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: This is even more confirmed when he goes and kills Delphine,

565
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: which Lorraine finds out about right away. She's sad. She

566
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: then finds and kills Perceval, and it seems like Perceval

567
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: is like this code name double agent Statuel. But wait,

568
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: but then we see Lorraine editing various audio recordings. She's

569
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: like cutting things together to make it seem like I was.

570
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: I wrote down Caitlin editing the Bechtel cast every week,

571
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: cutting out all the stuff that's like, oh, no, one

572
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: wants to hear that. This is gonna come out and

573
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be admitting to so many crimes. Yeah, sorry, Vanessa,

574
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: but I'm really going to implicate you for some messed

575
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: up stuff here, brutal stuff. I'm the one that burned

576
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: down the I'm the reason the Hindenburg crashed. I mean

577
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: you said it during the recording, I like the evidence show.

578
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 1: Oh goodness, Um okay. So she's like, yeah, she's cutting

579
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: things together to make it seem like Percival was a

580
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: traitor when it seems like Lorraine was Satchel all along.

581
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 1: What But then we cut to a few days later

582
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: in Paris, Lorraine as Satchel, meets with the main Soviet

583
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: bad guy, Bramovich, who is about to kill her. But

584
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: she kills him and all of his cronies because wait,

585
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 1: she's not a trader. She's still loyal to the British crown.

586
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: Oh wait, no she isn't, because she's been an American

587
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 1: spy this whole time, working for the CIA, and John

588
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: Goodman is her boss. She's not British intelligence at all.

589
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: Whoa that was? I got the the when the movie

590
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: ended for the fourth time. I was like, hello there,

591
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: and then she's like, I just want my life back,

592
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what what do you mean by that?

593
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: Because I don't know a damn thing about you. It

594
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 1: seems like this movie is setting up more. They're like, oh,

595
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: we'll tell you more about her later. There is a

596
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: sequel in development, so maybe we will find out more

597
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 1: information about Lorraine. In the meantime, let's take a quick

598
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: break and then we'll come back to discuss. And we're back, baby,

599
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: Where where do we want to Should we start by

600
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: talking about the action in the movie, because yeah, there's

601
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: so much to love here. I um yeah, I mean,

602
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: but as you're you're the expert, what was your what

603
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: was your take on the action in this movie? Oh?

604
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: My god, I loved it. I loved it so much

605
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,439
Speaker 1: I the last few years, And like, continuing onward, we're

606
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: watching action in martial arts movies have their renaissance again,

607
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 1: Like we're watching people actually like give a shit about

608
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: good choreo and also filming good choreo because for a

609
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: long time, the way we were shooting it wasn't doing

610
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: it justice. It was that like shaky handicam. That's like

611
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: why would you go through the effort of you know,

612
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: training these actors and these stuntmen through these amazing pieces

613
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: of choreography akin to like Bean Kelly dance sequences, and

614
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: then we shoot it like shit, which is like very

615
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 1: much like a Western thing because like Indonesia, Korean, everywhere

616
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 1: else was like way ahead of us on the action

617
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: end there. Uh like just watch anything they were doing

618
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: like ten years before we started getting good again. Uh.

619
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: But like specifically where I started noticing people like paying

620
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: attention to action coreo getting good again, it was like

621
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: Birds of Prey where it was like, oh wow, you

622
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: can get characterization through like good action sequences and the coreo.

623
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: And this does a lot of that, Like when Perceval

624
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: gets stabbed in the back when he's like trying to

625
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 1: kill Delphine and he's like he can't reach the knife

626
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 1: and you have that almost like comical like slapstick moment,

627
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: or really thinking about like the stairwell scene and how

628
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: it's all this really great one take, but everyone like

629
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: is getting progressively exhausted, and you're having those moments where

630
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: they're like hitting the ground and taking a breather, like

631
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: stumbling back, and it feels so much more grounded considering

632
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: like the plot gets a little wonky because it it

633
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: has that like most of being something that's like based

634
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: on a graphic novel. So it's like what do we

635
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: keep and what do we not keep? And just like

636
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: spy movies in general, I struggle to follow. There are

637
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: like two of the four Daniel Craig Bond movies that

638
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: have come out to date, I could not even begin

639
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: to explain the plot to two of them. I like,

640
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: I'm just like the what was one quantum of soulace

641
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: like you can get about it. I don't know what

642
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: that movie is about. I've seen it like three times

643
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: and I can't tell you what happened. So I think

644
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: that's just sort of like a trademark of the genre

645
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 1: is that a spy like espionage movie is just going

646
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: to be kind of confusing. It's confusing, and action really

647
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 1: shines its best when you just do like a real

648
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: just like simple like this is the plot and and

649
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: we're just going with this when i'd like I bring

650
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,760
Speaker 1: it up again and I remember the name of the sequel,

651
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 1: It's Night of the Operator with this amazing actress named

652
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 1: Julia Stell. That's the sequel that they're planning. But The

653
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,720
Speaker 1: Night Comes for Us is a perfect action movie because

654
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: the plot could just be summed up as like a

655
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: former Triad member is protecting a young girl. That's keep

656
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: it simple, and then just action. It's super simple, and

657
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: then just action sequences play out the rest of it,

658
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: because that's when it works the best. The second you

659
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: try and do something else, people are lost because they're

660
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: paying attention to these great long sequences and then there's

661
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: some ship in the middle and they're lost. But like

662
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: the choreography and this does the thing that I really

663
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 1: love where it thinks about how each person would fight

664
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 1: in a situation because like in a lot of this,

665
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: like you know, Charlie's is still like smaller stature than

666
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 1: a lot of the people that she comes up against,

667
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: so she uses her environment. She's really good at like

668
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: figuring out where she can get these like physical advantages

669
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: of advantages is on them, but like also doesn't get

670
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: that thing that you saw in like a lot of

671
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: earlier action movies with women in them where it's like,

672
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: but they're also inhumanly strong, yeah, and also so. And then,

673
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: like I mentioned this earlier, but like a lot of

674
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: earlier action movies starring women were really grossly sexualizing the

675
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: fight choreography and like making them just like horny fight

676
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: and like oh Mr and Mrs slam you down with

677
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 1: my pussy and that's gonna be my big signature move,

678
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, yeah, this just felt so much more

679
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: grounded and authentic, and there wasn't any sort of like

680
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: meal made of Charlie's body as she was fighting in

681
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: in the action sequences that it's like, I feel like

682
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,919
Speaker 1: for me talking about the action sequences of this movie

683
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: and then talking about the other parts of the movie,

684
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: it's like it was like, I don't know, I was

685
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: having some dissonance with like the action sequences are so

686
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: incredible and so well done, and I mean, like you're

687
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 1: saying Vanessa like she's using her body in a really

688
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: powerful but realistic way. She's like dressed in a way

689
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: that makes human sense for what she's doing, and like

690
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: it's just really fucking cool. And then but then outside

691
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: of that, I feel like her body is treated completely differently.

692
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: It's just so it was like kind of dissonant for

693
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: me in terms of, like, the action is so good,

694
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,240
Speaker 1: but then the way that the camera treats her body

695
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: at other points, And I don't know how much of

696
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: this is pulling from the graphic novel. I'm sure a

697
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: lot of it is, but the way the camera treats

698
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 1: her body when she's outside of those action sequences feels

699
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: more intentionally sexualized. And yeah, the action sequences and the

700
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: rest of the movie, I was like, Oh, it almost

701
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: feels like two different units or something. Yeah, I was

702
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: excited to talk to you about this because I've also

703
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: like I've had some interesting mental back and forth with it,

704
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: or it's just something that I like never just have

705
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: like a straight answer for how I feel about it,

706
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 1: because like it is treated differently from the fight sequences,

707
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: because the fight sequences are very much just like it's

708
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: how a lot of like martial artists and action stars

709
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: are treated as like, you know, their body is like

710
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 1: this weapon in this tool. And on one hand, there's

711
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: also like the elements of like it feels overly sexualized.

712
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 1: But then I also grew up watching a lot of

713
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: gen clon VANDAM movies where he's like oiled up and

714
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 1: like doing the splits and like very much like posing

715
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 1: like this is my ass, and like the hallmark of

716
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: the Action star where the men are like flexing, and

717
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: like that first scene where like before we even see

718
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,720
Speaker 1: her tits, it's like the flexing of her back muscles,

719
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: and so like there those moments of me being like

720
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: what for me is like the amount that you expect

721
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: from an Action star as like what has been standard?

722
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: And then what feels ick for me? And I'm trying

723
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: to find those lines because then I have this other

724
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: layer of like this general frustration. And I've talked to

725
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: other queer women about this, this like general frustration of

726
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: just like when am I getting an Action star that

727
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: I get to lust over that isn't just a guy?

728
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: And when can I like have that framed for me?

729
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: Because I also like want that. I want my like

730
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: sexy bond lady. I like I want my you know

731
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 1: Gordon lou like glistening in the sun moment. But then

732
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: you also have to like have that conversation of just

733
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: like who is the target audience? What am I gleaning

734
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: off of this? Like how is it presented and like

735
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: when am I like going to get it? And it

736
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 1: goes straight back to that why can't I have something

737
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: and let it be? But then I have the conversation

738
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: of like how men are viewing it too, and I'm like, Yeah,

739
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: my impression of it was her body was not treated

740
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: that much differently than the way a man's body would

741
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: be treated in an action movie where a man is

742
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: the action hero of the story, where like there is

743
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: still some degree of sexualization of a male action hero,

744
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: like you said, with like a focus on like glistening muscles,

745
00:44:54,960 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: or there's some kind of like raw sexualization to like

746
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: a strong, rugged male action hero. And while there is

747
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: some kind of gazey camera work happening on Charlie's body

748
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: and there's scenes where she's nude where she didn't necessarily

749
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: have to be seen nude, Like narratively speaking, I feel

750
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: like the same kind of things happen in yeah, just

751
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: like any action movie. Not to say that that's like

752
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: an excuse or that makes it okay, but it was

753
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: to me because there are action movies starring women that

754
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 1: way more sexualized, like the female subject I'm thinking of,

755
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 1: like Angelina Jolie in Laura Craft tumb Rater sure that.

756
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I still haven't seen Salt, but like, yeah,

757
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: women's bodies will just be more sexualized than what I

758
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 1: saw in Atomic Blonde. Not to say that there was

759
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: no actualization happening. It was kind of like somewhere in

760
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: the middle. I guess it's that messy, messy middle, right. Yeah,

761
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: And again, this is like not my genre, so I

762
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: totally I totally hear what you're saying in terms of

763
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: like men are this is just a very sexualized genre.

764
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,479
Speaker 1: It's a genre that hinges on bodies working at peak

765
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 1: physical performance, and like you're gonna want to see that.

766
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: There was just I think for this one in particular,

767
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: I kind of like I did some research on the

768
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: team and obviously like, this is a team that knows

769
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 1: action and knows stunts, but I was also like, this

770
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: is also a team of men who never seem to

771
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: work with women behind the scenes very frequently, And I

772
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,720
Speaker 1: did feel like with with certain shots and certain scenes,

773
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: there was stuff that felt like it felt just kind

774
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: of like if there was a woman in the room,

775
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: or if there was a woman in a high creative position,

776
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,760
Speaker 1: would this scene had happened this way? With this costume

777
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: ways have gone through because I feel like kind of

778
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: the difference with other action movies that I'm familiar with.

779
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: And again it's not a ton but I was you know,

780
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 1: usually in action movies, you have, you know, a male

781
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: hero who is presented pretty sexually, but you also have

782
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: these side female characters who are presented hyper sexually and

783
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: they're basically useless to the plot. This movie presents its

784
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: hero sexually, and that's kind of it there is you

785
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 1: don't have that, like, oh and here's the like sexy

786
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: male sidekick this time or I don't know, it just

787
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: felt I think it's stuck out to me because the

788
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: only characters I felt like we're being kind of sexualized

789
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: were the female characters, like that those other elements were missing,

790
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:43,879
Speaker 1: and I think that's why it kind of popped from

791
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: me like that very bond wa Yeah, And then I

792
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: was like, oh, and it's a cinematographer for transformers, so like,

793
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: I just don't know, I just don't know how Like

794
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: I guess my I'm extremely jaded in this department, but

795
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: particularly with cinematographers, I'm like, I just don't know that

796
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: they were thinking of or asking these questions just based

797
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: on kind of the team assembled. Yeah, it's it's a

798
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: probably not situation because of just like how like especially

799
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: we were like on the precipice of getting more, but

800
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: like at the time there are so few women, uh

801
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: not like working because they've been there, but like that

802
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 1: we're being hired, financed and like put in these positions

803
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: to make these calls. Totally. But then you also get

804
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: on the weird end of just like because you're like

805
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: mixing genres where you also have like the spy thriller

806
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: where it's like ah, but then there's always that like

807
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: honeypot situation. Uh. But again because it was because I know,

808
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: the suggestion to like add bisexuality into it was Charley's.

809
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: Yeah she was that wasn't in the graphic novel, but

810
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: she wanted that element to it where she's just like

811
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: I wanted to have like my bond girl moment, but

812
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: then the moment wins where she's with Gascoyne. We don't

813
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 1: really get to have those moments with him. We don't

814
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: really get to like lust with him and give him

815
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 1: like the equal bond girl moment that we get with Delphine.

816
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: I think I would have like kind of maybe this

817
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: is like nonsensical, but I would have been less kind

818
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: of like pinged by it happening with Charlie's and with

819
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: Delphine if that moment did exist for the side characters,

820
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: because you're because it's like it's a hyper sexual genre

821
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: regardless of gender normally, but it felt like it was

822
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: still kind of like the hyper sexualization and not even

823
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: like hyper but the sexualization really only happened for female characters. Yeah,

824
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: and just felt like kind of off. Yeah, I'm picturing

825
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: a scene where Charlie's is taping like a microphone or

826
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: like a bug to herself, and the camera starts on

827
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: her like pelvis and then kind of like just slowly

828
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: tilts up her body as she's like taping the wire

829
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 1: all the way up, and then like she wearing a

830
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: bra but like it lingers on her breasts for a moment,

831
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: and then that shot is used in the trailer. And

832
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: we can talk about the trailer a little bit, but

833
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: it's basically like whatever is going to make an audience

834
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: want to see a movie, which is usually like sex

835
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 1: and violence and rock and roll, and this movie has

836
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,919
Speaker 1: got it all. The soundtrack for this movie is so fun.

837
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: It's all diagenic too before Baby Driver, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,

838
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 1: but yeah, so there's there's like these kind of linger

839
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 1: e kind of males gazy shots that exist in the

840
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: movie are just plucked out and put into the trailer

841
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: to get people to be like, oh, this is going

842
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: to be a really this is a really sexy movie.

843
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 1: I have to go see it. It's like, I'm never

844
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 1: upset to see Charlie's like, it's not that's not the

845
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: issue for me, Like I'm in love, but the thing

846
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: is great. But yeah, you have James McAvoy and a

847
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: meshed tank top. Why not him to exactly. I'm like,

848
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: there should be equal opportunity lusting if we're if we're

849
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: lusting in the movie, like James McAvoy's right there, Bill

850
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:11,240
Speaker 1: scars Guard, give me some of that Bill scars Guard. Baby.

851
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: I'll even take it from John Goodman because I've had

852
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 1: a long time thing for him. It's like, yeah, it's

853
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: like you have all I mean you have. It would

854
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: be easier to tell the male characters apart if if

855
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 1: one were naked. But yeah, so it's like it's there

856
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: there were some shot like that shot you're describing Caitlyn.

857
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, the Transformers Dark of the Moon is

858
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: jumping out for me here a little bit. But I

859
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,839
Speaker 1: never felt that watching the action sequences. So that's why

860
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 1: it was just felt like different, I don't know, yeah,

861
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: like that that that sexualization isn't present there for sure.

862
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 1: I had a couple other observations about the different fight sequences,

863
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: um where I think it's just like worth noting that

864
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: we see very little in the way of male heroes

865
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 1: or characters that were meant to be like we are

866
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: meant to side with fighting. It's all Lorraine fighting men

867
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 1: who are like framed as being bad guys. So like

868
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: it's just such a rare thing to see in a

869
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: mainstream American contemporary movie that in general is cool. There

870
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: was a moment where we talked about the shoe the

871
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: and that happens pretty early on, and I didn't totally

872
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: remember a lot of details about this movie after having

873
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: seen in theaters. So the scene where she like pulls

874
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:40,320
Speaker 1: off her candy apple red three or four inch stiletto

875
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 1: and like uses it as a weapon. For a moment,

876
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, no, is this going to be

877
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: one of those movies where like women like they're using

878
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: their shoes and like their lipstick is actually like a

879
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: tracking device and like things like that, and that didn't

880
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 1: happen after this one moment with the shoe, which I was,

881
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: I mean that moment, the shoe is fucking and I mean,

882
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: it does make a good weapon. But she's got other weapons.

883
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 1: She's got other Yes, most of the time you see

884
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: her fighting with her fists or kicking people or shooting guns,

885
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 1: so keys, lamps, sections of hose, but not like frying pans,

886
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:21,479
Speaker 1: which is the thing we talked about all the time,

887
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: where like, oh, if a woman fights, then she has

888
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: to fight with cookwear. No, She's like, she's like fucking

889
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 1: good at what she does, which is like her job

890
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: is just that. I mean, I don't even want to

891
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: get into the plot stuff too much because I'm like,

892
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: what what does the CIA want in this situation? I

893
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: don't know. I couldn't tell you what her true goal is.

894
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: Everyone's motivations are so weird, like John Goodman, aren't the

895
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: CIA and on my six theoretically on the same side, right,

896
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: I don't understand. I don't know, I don't know. Oh God,

897
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: there's so much I don't know about the Cold War

898
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 1: and also the general wants of what covert operations need.

899
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: I have no idea, right, Yeah, but like speaking to

900
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:15,320
Speaker 1: like Lorraine's character, I mean, she's definitely I feel like

901
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 1: and and again you both no way better than me.

902
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: I feel like spy characters are often kind of blank

903
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 1: slates because they have to have all these secrets kind

904
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: of deal. And that's kind that is her deal because otherwise,

905
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 1: if you, I mean, if you find out she's American,

906
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: then the plane scene at the end means nothing. But

907
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: I like that. I felt like, yeah, like Lorraine is

908
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 1: just like a full on fucking action hero. She looks

909
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 1: cool all the time, regardless of what she's doing. Oh,

910
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 1: she's she's drinking vodka on the rocks. She's drunk, chain smoking. Yeah,

911
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: she's drunk all she's chain smoking. She's saying funk all

912
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 1: the time. She's a certified she's like Quippy in the interview,

913
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: she's always firing off these one liner Like it just

914
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: felt so like in a real, a fun way, like, oh, yeah,

915
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 1: this is like an action movie. This person is just

916
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: like a career cool person. Yeah right, but yeah, we

917
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: don't we don't learn much about her character nor any

918
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 1: beside from that. Yeah, and then, and this type of

919
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: movie doesn't call for like really meaningful character development, Like

920
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 1: that's not why we go to watch an action movie. Yeah,

921
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: Like I dare anybody to give me like five character

922
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,839
Speaker 1: traits of John Wick, Like give me five other than

923
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 1: like he likes dogs. Give me four more than that,

924
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: because like even the third movie had like a weird

925
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 1: side plot or he like went to Egypt and cut

926
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 1: off his own finger for like no goddamn reason. Uh.

927
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 1: And again, these are movies I adore, but I like

928
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: with so many like action heroes and like give me

929
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 1: five each, I dare you truly impossible for most of them? Yeah,

930
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 1: we don't really come to the genre for character development. Yeah.

931
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 1: The last subservation I want to make about just sort

932
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 1: of like the action of it all is that, um,

933
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:10,399
Speaker 1: I just appreciate that between Atomic Blonde, between Mad Max

934
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: Fury Road between I didn't see this movie yet, but

935
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 1: I know that it's another action movie. The Old Guard

936
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 1: on Netflix. Charlie's Theren has like proven herself to be

937
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:26,320
Speaker 1: an impressive action movie star. Not that she's necessarily like

938
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: known only for that because she'saw she you know, spans

939
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: many genres. She didn't do it all dully. She was

940
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 1: a dully, she was in Monster, She in a bunch

941
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 1: of young adults, Mighty Joe Young, remember that one. Oh

942
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 1: my god, I had that on VHS. I watched it

943
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: until it like they just got all the little fuzzy

944
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: lines because I kept rewinding it anyway. So she's very versatile.

945
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: But she's kind of one of a few women in

946
00:56:54,480 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 1: Hollywood who are being cast in these very action centric roles,

947
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: which I think is just like a really cool thing

948
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 1: that I would like to see more of, especially because

949
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 1: it's not something that a lot of a lot of

950
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 1: women have been able to achieve just because of like

951
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 1: the limitations of who they let be in action movies.

952
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: But there are dozens of men who have made entire

953
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: careers as very bankable action stars. And you could like

954
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise, Bruce Willis the Rock, Jason Statham, Kana Reeves,

955
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, Schwards Senegger, Like the list goes on

956
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 1: and on and on. So I just I appreciate that,

957
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 1: like Charlie's there and this is part of her career

958
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: now because I love watching her fight and just and

959
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: I really like that she like got this movie made too.

960
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a lot of especially when you

961
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 1: hear about UM, like so many good movies with female

962
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: protagonists only happened because there was like a woman with

963
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: power who was like, we're doing this um, and it

964
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 1: seems like this movie is no exception that, like Charlie's

965
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: was like found the book and she was like, I

966
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: want the director of John Wick to do this, and

967
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 1: this is the team I want and this is how

968
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 1: I want to fight. And you know, she like got

969
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: it made. And she's in her forties in this movie too,

970
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: which isn't you know, which isn't nothing in Hollywood ever,

971
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: and I know she's producing the sequel to which is fantastic.

972
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: I love it also for anybody that's just like looking

973
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: for a lot of like dope scenes with women in

974
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: action now, like look to Indonesia. Indonesia like currently has

975
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: been doing amazing, Like if you just look up an

976
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: actress named Julia Stell, like the amount of fights that

977
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 1: she has under her belt right now that are all

978
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: all of them are like iconic scenes in action. Like

979
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 1: if somebody did like a top twenty from the last decade,

980
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: a big chunk would be Julia Stell. Awesome. That's so cool, Okay, yeah,

981
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: I gotta check her out. Um, let's take a quick

982
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: break and then we'll come for more discussion and we're back,

983
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: all right, should we talk about the romantic Let's talk

984
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: about the romantic sub plot? Baby? So um I so

985
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: it's between um Lorraine and Delphine teach for America Bad

986
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: Spy And this is like I think that actress's second

987
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: like spy type movie as well. Yeah, I forgot she

988
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 1: did Kingsman. Oh yeah, she was the girl with the

989
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: sword feet, like the henchman with the sword feet I have.

990
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: I haven't seen Kingsman. I didn't know there was sword

991
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:47,439
Speaker 1: feet in that movie. Yeah. So Sophia Boutel I believe

992
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 1: is her last name. Her background is also dance. That's

993
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 1: why she's in it movie. Um, that director I hate

994
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:58,439
Speaker 1: gas Barney Clinic. Yes, not a fan. Yeah, so her

995
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 1: background is mostly dance stuff. So, like, I'm surprised that

996
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: she didn't get a ton of corio in this movie

997
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: because she had a bit in Kingsman as like the

998
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: main batties Henchman. So when I saw her in this,

999
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: I was like, oh cool they brought her in because

1000
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: she did like a Bond homage. Already you know, she

1001
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 1: like has that background, and she didn't really get a

1002
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: ton of corio, which is a bummer for me. Yeah,

1003
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 1: I felt like she was set up. I really enjoyed

1004
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 1: the way that her character was set up, and I

1005
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: enjoyed how that relationship was set up, and then she

1006
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: kind of disappeared and then she came back and then

1007
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: she was killed. It reminded me a little bit of

1008
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: the girlfriend character in Have either of you seen I

1009
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 1: Care a Lot? Oh not. Yes, there's another like a

1010
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 1: cool relationship that is set up and you're like, oh,

1011
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 1: this is like love is you know, I'm I'm kind

1012
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: of a sucker for like, my only weakness is love.

1013
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 1: The same and then you get like a cool, a

1014
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 1: cool character and then you're like, oh, this is going

1015
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 1: to be the movie, but then it kind of isn't,

1016
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: and then the character dies and you're sad, sorry for

1017
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: spoiling I Care a Lot for your kid. It's no,

1018
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 1: it's the same kind of deal that I've seen before,

1019
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: because it's just like I don't know, there's like there

1020
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: isn't like a ton of space to development, but also

1021
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 1: like I've seen other movies give me that development faster,

1022
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: so I know, it's possible. It's not something that's like

1023
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 1: undoable and impossible. And like Delphine had all of the

1024
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 1: makings of, you know, having like one or two really

1025
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 1: great fight scenes, like she had a little bit of

1026
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: that moment with that like knife work, but again not

1027
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,439
Speaker 1: that much. And like you said, Jamie, I really liked

1028
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: their back and forth in terms of just like her

1029
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 1: being a novice and like this thing that like reflects

1030
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 1: that to Lorraine, and I just I wanted a little

1031
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 1: bit more. I wanted just at least just a sequence

1032
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 1: of not so much like how she got into it,

1033
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 1: like those photos. We get like such a throw a

1034
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 1: moment of her taking those photos, but we didn't get

1035
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: like a three minute spic scene or something, right, and

1036
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: like why wouldn't you have shown that, like and why could?

1037
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I know that like the center of the

1038
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 1: action is going to be around Lorraine, and that probably

1039
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 1: makes sense, but it's like there was room for that

1040
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: and it would have been fun to watch. And it

1041
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: seems like, um, Sophia Boutella is able to do it,

1042
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,520
Speaker 1: so just do it. Yeah, I feel like she kind

1043
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: of faded. She just kind of faded out of the

1044
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 1: movie over time. I don't know. Yeah, so here here

1045
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 1: my thoughts on all this. So it would have been

1046
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: like the easy, the expected the common choice to have

1047
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 1: this romantic subplot b between like Lorraine and Percival. Instead

1048
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: it's a queer romance. The character in the source material

1049
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 1: in the graphic novel is basically the same character, but

1050
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: they gender swapped it. So what happened there was basically

1051
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: Charlie Starren was like, Okay, we're developing this for the screen.

1052
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: We're adapting this. How can we make it different though

1053
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 1: than like your typical spy action movie. And then the screenwriter,

1054
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 1: Kurt John's did suggested quote in the graphic novel, the

1055
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 1: Lacelle character, the French agent is actually a man. I said,

1056
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 1: I think it's cool if we gender flip this and

1057
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 1: make it a woman end quote. And then Charlie's was

1058
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: all for it. So we have a few things here now.

1059
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 1: So we get some by visibility because it's implied that

1060
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 1: Lorraine was in a relationship with James Gascoyne before he

1061
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 1: was killed, and then she begins with this relationship with Delphine.

1062
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: So you know, it's not something we've actually talked that

1063
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:45,920
Speaker 1: much about on the show, but as far as bisexual

1064
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 1: visibility and by erasher. A lot of media and even

1065
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 1: media featuring queer characters tends not to include bisexual or

1066
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 1: pan sexual people, or I mean really anyone on the

1067
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 1: sexual spectrum who is not hetero or a gay man

1068
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 1: or lesbian woman. The sexual spectrum that tends to get

1069
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 1: represented in media still seems to be quite binary and

1070
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 1: erases a large number of people. So this movie does

1071
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 1: give us some bisexual inclusion and visibility. However, this movie

1072
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:24,919
Speaker 1: received backlash from a lot of viewers for the use

1073
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: of the barry your gaze trope um, which is, if

1074
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 1: anyone is not familiar in media, a disproportionate number of

1075
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 1: queer characters will be killed off, often in the name

1076
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: of advancing a hetero leading characters storyline. When it does happen,

1077
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 1: it's often like very kind of random or needlessly or

1078
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 1: it like kind of doesn't really have anything to do

1079
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 1: with the plot, or it like didn't need to happen narratively,

1080
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: so that's kind of part of this trope. And you

1081
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 1: it means that queer characters don't get a happy ending,

1082
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 1: or like that the queer couple doesn't get to end

1083
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: up together. So a lot of people saw this movie

1084
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 1: and we're really disappointed by the use of this trope.

1085
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: And then like learning that the screenwriter was like, hey,

1086
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 1: let's just make this a queer relationship instead of a

1087
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 1: straight relationship then uses that trope. To me is just

1088
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: sort of indicative of like, Okay, the choice wasn't necessarily

1089
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 1: made for maliciously, but like it wasn't made in an

1090
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 1: informed way. I feel like that again speaks to like

1091
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 1: the the like team that has assembled here are a

1092
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:44,880
Speaker 1: great action team, but but they're like needs to be

1093
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 1: some other voices in the room. Yeah, because it's like

1094
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 1: this guy wrote three hundred you know, like is he

1095
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 1: do we really trust him with this storyline? I don't know,

1096
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. Yeah, I'm gonna bring a

1097
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 1: kind of left field example in terms of just like

1098
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 1: when I'm like comfy in a death and versus when

1099
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 1: I'm like not, because like I've had this conversation a

1100
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 1: zillion times with other queers where it's like there's barrier

1101
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 1: gates and then there's just when a plot like lends

1102
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 1: itself to like this character will die or everybody dies,

1103
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 1: or there's no happy ending, and often the time the

1104
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 1: thing that changes it is if the writer straight or not.

1105
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 1: And also like is the character experiencing like some kind

1106
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: of retribution And like the first time I saw a

1107
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 1: queer death on screen where I like didn't feel weird

1108
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 1: was because the writer himself was gay, and that was

1109
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: the movie Bright of Chucky. Uh so amazing example. Luck. Yeah,

1110
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 1: it's like where's this going? I love it. It's a

1111
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 1: big left field line. So if you watch specifically the

1112
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 1: Child's Play series, it gets really queer. The second like

1113
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 1: Don Mancini starts to gain more control because like, first

1114
01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 1: of all, he's the reason why the script worked Initially, Um,

1115
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 1: there's a real mess first and then he went in

1116
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 1: and fixed it. And then he basically has been like

1117
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 1: the same writer for everything and then took more creative

1118
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 1: control on once Bright of Chucky came out, and that

1119
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 1: was like, if you watch it, it's very like especially

1120
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 1: for like young me as like a closeted bisexual woman,

1121
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 1: Like it had all of my little flags of just like, hey,

1122
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 1: I know you're watching this because like it's it's very campy.

1123
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 1: You know, there's a very deliberate casting, and like Jennifer

1124
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 1: Tilly the sequel after that has John Waters and it

1125
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 1: like it it knows and like Bright of Chucky was

1126
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: also the first time I saw a gay character and

1127
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 1: horror that was just gay. Like it's he's the best friend,

1128
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 1: but he's not even the sassy best friend. He's just

1129
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 1: the best friend that is also gay, and like you know,

1130
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 1: is just there and like everyone dies in in a

1131
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 1: Chucky movie because that's what it is, you know. Yeah,

1132
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 1: you have this year dem devable slasher. Everyone dies and

1133
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 1: the way slashes are set up, like you're fully expecting

1134
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 1: any character that's introduced to be queer to be like

1135
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 1: the one that gets like the most brutal punishment. It's

1136
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 1: usually when the middle of like doing something gay. Uh,

1137
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 1: And it's just like a little bit more cruel and

1138
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: often sexualized than it is in other places. And David

1139
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:12,959
Speaker 1: is just David until lenatably gets hit by a truck

1140
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 1: because he's like, you know, in the middle of a standoff,

1141
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 1: and yes, he gets hit by a truck, but he

1142
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 1: dies like the same way everyone else does. And it's

1143
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 1: just being a character. And I know that, Like Don's

1144
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:28,599
Speaker 1: Vancini when he wrote that, wasn't like I'm punishing David.

1145
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: David's just David versus when like, if a street guy

1146
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,040
Speaker 1: wrote that exact scene, I feel weirder because he doesn't

1147
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 1: have that like intent knowledge and like he doesn't have

1148
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 1: that informed decision and you could do if like if

1149
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: a gay person wrote this, I wouldn't feel the same.

1150
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:48,480
Speaker 1: And it doesn't help that Delphine has killed in Lingerie

1151
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 1: for some reason, like come on, how many her death

1152
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: scene feels really exploitative? Then that way, And then I

1153
01:08:56,520 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 1: also pulled a quote from the director Dave it light licked.

1154
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 1: It's just a lot of consonants all at once. But

1155
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:12,720
Speaker 1: um he said about this relationship quote, the relationship was

1156
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 1: flipped before I came on board. It was a great idea.

1157
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:19,479
Speaker 1: You always have to find ways to contemporize these stories,

1158
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 1: reach bigger audiences and be provocative in your storytelling. End

1159
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 1: quote provocative. Okay, that's interesting in in citing the word provocative. Right,

1160
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 1: So the the intent there with like the direction and

1161
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 1: again with the writing choice, and again like if it's

1162
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:43,520
Speaker 1: a matter of if this writing choice is made responsibly

1163
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: and that character is given more just like thought and

1164
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 1: care and development, and she isn't like Fridged for no reason.

1165
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 1: It's just not like it's just I don't know. It's like,

1166
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 1: with all due respect to this team, these are like

1167
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 1: you collaborators of Michael Bay and Zack Snyder's they're ill

1168
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:10,600
Speaker 1: equipped to to make what I think is like a

1169
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: good idea here, but they're ill equipped to give it

1170
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 1: the breathing room and the you know, just kind of

1171
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 1: like respect that any storyline deserves, yeah, to make that

1172
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 1: informed decision, because the thing is like, all right, let's

1173
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 1: say Delphine has to die because you know it's a

1174
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:28,840
Speaker 1: spy movie, and you know, it's like you play the

1175
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 1: spy game, you die. Whatever. She could have been like

1176
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 1: dispatched the way any of the men in the movie

1177
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 1: had been, like very much just like so many dudes,

1178
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 1: they're like shot through their coat, they're thrown down a

1179
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 1: flight of stairs. It's treated so much differently. We're like,

1180
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:46,640
Speaker 1: you know, they're not they're not pretty during any of that,

1181
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 1: because you never are when you're being shot in the back.

1182
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:52,760
Speaker 1: Yet like even like the manner of this where it's

1183
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 1: like there was no knife and bullet involved because in

1184
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 1: strangulation you keep a pretty body. It's the kind of

1185
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 1: choices that are made where it's like, well, she still

1186
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:03,719
Speaker 1: has to be beautiful, and it's like, why she's a spy.

1187
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 1: She's a spy like everyone else has. She could have

1188
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 1: just had a spy death right if she has to

1189
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 1: die for whatever reason, I would have preferred. It's like,

1190
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 1: for genre reasons, I get what she dies, but it

1191
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 1: was the way that she died. It was like, well, okay,

1192
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 1: there were too many deliberate choices in like overkilling a woman,

1193
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 1: an attractive woman, like do any other character death Delphine

1194
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:32,600
Speaker 1: could have had that, yeah, yeah, And then adding the

1195
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:35,880
Speaker 1: barrier gaze trope on top of that is just like

1196
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:38,800
Speaker 1: none of this is working. And then another aspect of

1197
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:41,559
Speaker 1: it is that a lot of viewers of this movie

1198
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:46,160
Speaker 1: accused it of of queer baiting, especially because the queer

1199
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:49,760
Speaker 1: sex scene is featured very heavily in the trailer in

1200
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 1: the marketing. Again, it's the other thing where it's like

1201
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 1: and in fact, like I rewatched the trailer just to

1202
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 1: just to see it with my own eyes, And basically

1203
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 1: the entire sex scene that is in the movie is

1204
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 1: also in the trailer. They barely even edited it down

1205
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 1: because the sex scene in the movie isn't that long,

1206
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:11,559
Speaker 1: but they include almost all of it in the trailer,

1207
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 1: implying that this romantic subplot takes up way more real

1208
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:19,000
Speaker 1: estate in the movie than it actually does because it's

1209
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 1: very little of the movie. They should have explained the

1210
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 1: Cold War in the trailer that um, and then just

1211
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:29,120
Speaker 1: like in addition to to the queer bating conversation, a

1212
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 1: lot of people just noted that this sex scene between

1213
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:34,640
Speaker 1: the two women is framed in such a way to

1214
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:38,760
Speaker 1: appeal to the male gaze, which kind of harkens back

1215
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 1: to the conversation we were having earlier. I'm curious about

1216
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 1: everyone's takes on that because again, it's like, this is

1217
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 1: not my genre. So I'm like, when I think of

1218
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 1: action movie sex scene, I don't really know what to think.

1219
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 1: So I I I saw that many people had that

1220
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,439
Speaker 1: issue with the scene, and it is definitely like a

1221
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:03,040
Speaker 1: gazey hell scene, like it feels music video in the

1222
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:08,040
Speaker 1: way it shot. My question is is that how a

1223
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 1: sex scene in an action movie would normally be shot?

1224
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 1: Is this normal for the genre? Like I didn't know

1225
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 1: where to like where to kind of fall there because

1226
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 1: I was out of my element genre wise. I think

1227
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 1: it looks like a you know, a softcore like music video.

1228
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 1: But I'm like maybe that happens in the genre exclusively.

1229
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, so a little I hate using the

1230
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 1: words hotake, but like I personally like I enjoy it

1231
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:37,040
Speaker 1: because it's very much just one of those just like

1232
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:40,920
Speaker 1: hell yeah, I love watching girls make out, um, and

1233
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 1: it is like super stylized. But I was like sitting

1234
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 1: here thinking about it, and I was just like, what

1235
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:48,600
Speaker 1: would this look like in a different era with a

1236
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:53,840
Speaker 1: different star, And I was just like, let's do Schwarzenegger

1237
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:57,160
Speaker 1: stallone any of those guys. There would have been like

1238
01:13:57,320 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 1: a long scene where he's sitting on a bed or

1239
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: are sitting in a chair and she's like doing a

1240
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 1: coy little strip tease. Uh, and it's just like a

1241
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 1: lot of him like fully addressed, but she's naked and uh,

1242
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 1: it's it's the whole walk to the bed and then

1243
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:16,320
Speaker 1: they're having sex and he's on the bottom and we

1244
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 1: only see his chest um, and it's just her bouncing

1245
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 1: on top and it's boobs. So like the second I

1246
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:25,840
Speaker 1: put someone else in it, and I'm like, yeah, the

1247
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 1: entire thing like hits differently because like in my head,

1248
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 1: I also remembered it as far more gratuitous because of

1249
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:34,599
Speaker 1: the conversation around it and then like rewatching it now,

1250
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:36,600
Speaker 1: and I was just like, yeah, that's just kind of

1251
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:38,800
Speaker 1: a few seconds and we're kind of far away and

1252
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:42,680
Speaker 1: they're both like equally naked and just both participants in

1253
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:45,599
Speaker 1: this versus like the way I usually see it, where

1254
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 1: it's just like the girl performing for the guy and

1255
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,599
Speaker 1: then they have sex and then I'm only it's it's

1256
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 1: just her boob and her her boob. There's two of them,

1257
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:58,840
Speaker 1: her boobs and her butt the whole time. So like

1258
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 1: that was one thing that I was like thinking about

1259
01:15:00,479 --> 01:15:03,040
Speaker 1: because I'm like, place it anywhere else and we're getting

1260
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 1: like a full strip tease. Sure, yeah, it does. It

1261
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:11,720
Speaker 1: does feel less again, like hyper sexualized and exploitative of

1262
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 1: if it were like a hetero sex sex scene. I

1263
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 1: just feel like I was, like I wrote down, like

1264
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:23,639
Speaker 1: I'm assuming that all sex scenes in all action movies

1265
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 1: are kind of corny and kind of like very like

1266
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 1: burn noner like, which is what it felt. I don't

1267
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was kind of like, I, I

1268
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 1: mean the same sort of vibe as you've been asked

1269
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,000
Speaker 1: the room, like I I want to see women making out,

1270
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm all for it, and you don't normally

1271
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:45,680
Speaker 1: see it in this genre, especially with a woman as

1272
01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 1: the protagonist. And in some ways you're like, oh, okay,

1273
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 1: so it's a queer couple getting the like corny, horny

1274
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 1: action movie treatment. But I also can see why people

1275
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:00,720
Speaker 1: would be frustrated with them. Yeah, it's it's very much

1276
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 1: like both stances make sense, and it's it's the eighties.

1277
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 1: The eighties had so many like bonker stylized sex scenes,

1278
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 1: like all a top gun with like the silhouetted body

1279
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:15,959
Speaker 1: right right where You're like, this is just a goofy

1280
01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:21,080
Speaker 1: sex genre. I don't know. I mean my person confused. No,

1281
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:24,679
Speaker 1: it is. It's like I'm like, oh, I'm embarrassed for everybody,

1282
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 1: but I'm also like horny for everybody, So it's confused.

1283
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean that's the thing, like my personal

1284
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 1: opinion on it. If I'm like taking off my bech

1285
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:37,120
Speaker 1: Dol goggles and just like watching it as a sex scene,

1286
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:41,599
Speaker 1: I was like, damn, this is hot. These two hot

1287
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:44,760
Speaker 1: people are rubbing up on each other and it's really

1288
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:48,599
Speaker 1: hot to look at. And is it inherently male gaze

1289
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 1: because it's a male director, a male cinematographer, et cetera.

1290
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 1: I can't explain why I knew it was shot by

1291
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 1: a man when I saw it, but I mean I

1292
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:02,680
Speaker 1: feel like it is like no, you know, but it

1293
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:05,200
Speaker 1: also like I think that there is like this kind

1294
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:10,599
Speaker 1: of discussion to be had about like feminist movies should

1295
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:14,640
Speaker 1: you know, be inclusive of women having sex and like

1296
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:20,320
Speaker 1: enjoying sex and like showing that, like, k this like

1297
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:25,519
Speaker 1: a good well shot sex scene like that can be

1298
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 1: really great, And like I feel like there's this kind

1299
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 1: of common stereotype of like feminists don't want to see

1300
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 1: women have sex in movies at all, And it's like no, no, no,

1301
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 1: I just I just wanted to be like a shot well,

1302
01:17:38,439 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 1: I wanted to like make sense and not be like

1303
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 1: pandering to like horny exactly, something I actually really appreciated,

1304
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:52,599
Speaker 1: which like, again, this is bare minimum stuff here, but um,

1305
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:56,439
Speaker 1: when you're so starved for particular representations, you're like, oh

1306
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:59,519
Speaker 1: my gosh, I can't believe I saw this is They're

1307
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:03,280
Speaker 1: they're like on a bed, making out, kissing, fooling around.

1308
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 1: You see. I think it's Charlie's hand go in between

1309
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 1: Delphine's legs to like stimulate her clitteress guess what I've

1310
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 1: never fucking seen in a heterosex scene in an action

1311
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:24,880
Speaker 1: movie is a man stimulating a woman's flow knowing where

1312
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:27,559
Speaker 1: or what it is. Yeah, exactly what we're doing anything

1313
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:31,560
Speaker 1: before entering first, Like I brought it up before, but

1314
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:35,000
Speaker 1: like I go back to Bound for like sex between

1315
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:39,360
Speaker 1: women so much because like the Wachowski sisters were so

1316
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 1: fucking smart in that they were like, we're bringing a

1317
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:48,040
Speaker 1: like feminist sex expert onto set, who's going to like

1318
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:51,200
Speaker 1: help consult on the best way that we can do this.

1319
01:18:51,479 --> 01:18:55,120
Speaker 1: And also just like how lesbians like touch each other

1320
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:57,720
Speaker 1: and like how they're going to do this, And it's

1321
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:00,760
Speaker 1: like a it's like a long gratuitous sex scene, but

1322
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:04,680
Speaker 1: it's so like not under that gaze because it's so

1323
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 1: informed and they really did think about like a bringing

1324
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:12,000
Speaker 1: in consult and be like both actresses in that scene

1325
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 1: are so comfortable and so like we are actresses that

1326
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:18,080
Speaker 1: are being directed and like we have a lot of

1327
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:22,040
Speaker 1: control of the situation that the end product is really hot.

1328
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:28,439
Speaker 1: That scene is very important to me. I still have

1329
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 1: to watch I have not seen Bound, but it's my

1330
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:34,960
Speaker 1: favorite movie. It's really really good. Come back on the

1331
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 1: show and talk about it with us. Yeah, um, yeah,

1332
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:41,680
Speaker 1: I guess it's I guess where I fell in the

1333
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:45,200
Speaker 1: sex scene is I understand where the criticism was coming from.

1334
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:48,280
Speaker 1: But it was corny and horny in a way that

1335
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:51,599
Speaker 1: felt true to the genre, not to I mean, it's

1336
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:56,160
Speaker 1: like I'm in no way handing it to the cinematographer

1337
01:19:56,200 --> 01:19:58,599
Speaker 1: of Transformers Dark of the Moon. Don't get me wrong,

1338
01:19:59,280 --> 01:20:02,320
Speaker 1: this is not Yeah. I didn't feel like a I

1339
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:05,160
Speaker 1: don't know, like a WATERSHD moment of like wow, but

1340
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:08,320
Speaker 1: it was like it was a hot scene with sex.

1341
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:11,479
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, like I almost subject more to

1342
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:15,679
Speaker 1: how how much the trailer, you know, made it seem

1343
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:18,599
Speaker 1: like this is the movie than than the actual scene

1344
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:22,760
Speaker 1: in the actual movie, because it's such a blip, such

1345
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:25,599
Speaker 1: a blip. I'm way more kind of annoyed that Delphine

1346
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:28,040
Speaker 1: ended up being such a kind of like nothing of

1347
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 1: a character when she should have been a something of

1348
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:34,640
Speaker 1: a character than the sex scene. She had so much

1349
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:37,479
Speaker 1: build up. She there's like both on like what the

1350
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:40,320
Speaker 1: actress could do and also what they like put into

1351
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:42,800
Speaker 1: the movie, like those little bits of dialogue we get

1352
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:46,599
Speaker 1: out of her, Like we deserved more from Delphine. Agree,

1353
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:50,439
Speaker 1: heart agree, But that's what you get when you have

1354
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:55,880
Speaker 1: a movie directed by a man, a screenplay written by

1355
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 1: a man, adapted from a graphic novel by a man

1356
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:01,600
Speaker 1: who didn't even include that character as a woman to

1357
01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:05,240
Speaker 1: begin with. So so that's that's the thing that ultimately

1358
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:08,680
Speaker 1: is frustrating for me about this movie is like I

1359
01:21:09,160 --> 01:21:11,599
Speaker 1: enjoyed it, and the I mean, the action alone makes

1360
01:21:11,680 --> 01:21:14,240
Speaker 1: this movie worth watching. If you're going for the plot,

1361
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:17,800
Speaker 1: probably skip it because the plot makes no fucking sense,

1362
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:21,439
Speaker 1: not unless you're a Cold War scholar. And even then,

1363
01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:24,160
Speaker 1: and even then maybe it's wrong. I have no idea,

1364
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:27,439
Speaker 1: we can't we couldn't tell you. But like, the action

1365
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 1: is so good, and it's so clear that you're in

1366
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 1: the hands of experts in terms of shooting and executing

1367
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:37,640
Speaker 1: a really really cool action movie. But it's so like

1368
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:40,960
Speaker 1: boys boys, boys, boys, boys, boys, boys, and if you

1369
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:43,000
Speaker 1: look at their background, what do they do? They work

1370
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:48,360
Speaker 1: with other boys, and it's just like, Yeah, this director

1371
01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:58,000
Speaker 1: also directed Deadpool Deadpool too, as well as the music

1372
01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:06,599
Speaker 1: video for Ashes by Celene Dione. What I mean, I'm

1373
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:12,840
Speaker 1: very fascinated by David. I mean, he seems like, I mean,

1374
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 1: what a story, what a life. He has done so

1375
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:19,200
Speaker 1: much shit. He has an incredibly cool and kind of

1376
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:23,640
Speaker 1: like pretty singular career. Yeah, I just I don't. I mean,

1377
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:27,439
Speaker 1: I guess in this situation, I wonder why. And it's

1378
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 1: kind of a non issue because it's like, well, Charlie's

1379
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:33,160
Speaker 1: chose her director, she chose the team she wanted, so

1380
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:36,720
Speaker 1: who are we right? Like, there is a woman at

1381
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:39,160
Speaker 1: the top of this production, but I do wish that

1382
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:43,680
Speaker 1: there were more women included in meaningful roles. There are,

1383
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:47,040
Speaker 1: there are several female producers on the project. But I

1384
01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:52,080
Speaker 1: just I guess, my I don't see why this screenplay

1385
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:55,160
Speaker 1: needed to be written by a guy, Like I don't

1386
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:58,400
Speaker 1: think there's certain things where I'm like for action purposes,

1387
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:01,719
Speaker 1: I understand why she chose who she shows. I feel

1388
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:03,719
Speaker 1: like this movie really would have benefited from a female

1389
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:07,720
Speaker 1: writer working on it, female writer, female stone a photographer. Uh,

1390
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:12,640
Speaker 1: this movie was edited by a woman, which is pretty cool. Uh.

1391
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 1: And this is an Icelandic name that I will almost

1392
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:24,479
Speaker 1: certainly absolutely butcher but um but try Elisabet ronald Or.

1393
01:23:25,240 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 1: I feel like with a lot of Icelandic names, the

1394
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:28,960
Speaker 1: e does more than I expect it to do. So

1395
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:35,040
Speaker 1: I always botch it. Yeah, we also can't say David. Yeah,

1396
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 1: I was struggling on that one. But yeah, like the

1397
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:40,760
Speaker 1: second you have more women involved like making some of

1398
01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 1: these choices. It's how I know I said it once before,

1399
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 1: but it's how we get Birds of Prey. It's how

1400
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 1: we get that hair time moment. It's it's it's how

1401
01:23:48,240 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 1: we get something where it's just like, all right, this

1402
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:53,519
Speaker 1: feels more informed. It's like the night and day difference

1403
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:57,000
Speaker 1: in Harley's like costuming to where it's like, you know,

1404
01:23:57,280 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 1: she still gets to be like cute and thought e,

1405
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:01,280
Speaker 1: but it's like in a way that makes sense to

1406
01:24:01,400 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 1: her because she's wearing like sneakers where like one of

1407
01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:07,920
Speaker 1: the things I did note about this movie, like the wardrobing,

1408
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 1: is Lorraine is wearing high heels in almost every scene

1409
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:16,320
Speaker 1: and it's like you can't fight and what come on?

1410
01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:19,280
Speaker 1: So I was like, that's a little I'm not sure

1411
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 1: about that, but I mean it looks cool, but it's

1412
01:24:22,479 --> 01:24:26,439
Speaker 1: also not practical nor realistic. But it's also an action movie,

1413
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:29,800
Speaker 1: so I d K. This is a very white movie.

1414
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 1: Um everyone is white in it, yes, the end, like

1415
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 1: everyone everyone, and and it's like don't tell me there

1416
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:44,160
Speaker 1: were only white people living in Berlin. Don't tell me

1417
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:48,000
Speaker 1: you couldn't have like diversified the agents, Like there's no

1418
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:52,200
Speaker 1: reason that both of the agents interviewing Charlie's had to

1419
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:54,720
Speaker 1: be white. Like it's just it's one of those things

1420
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:57,200
Speaker 1: where it's just like and you know, there's always gonna

1421
01:24:57,200 --> 01:24:59,720
Speaker 1: be some words like it was Europe, but like we

1422
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:01,640
Speaker 1: could to spend her disbelief that like all of the

1423
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:04,560
Speaker 1: diagenic music is playing simultaneously in the just like this

1424
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:08,880
Speaker 1: really weird week that she's having, we can't like throw

1425
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 1: in someone else. And it's like there's always been people

1426
01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:15,160
Speaker 1: who aren't white in Berlin, like Berlin is a super

1427
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:21,280
Speaker 1: divers Ah, It's it's really annoying. Yeah, there's no need.

1428
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:26,680
Speaker 1: Does anyone have any other thoughts about the film? Does

1429
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:30,160
Speaker 1: anyone notice when John Goodman was wearing a hat? I'm kidding,

1430
01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:34,240
Speaker 1: I don't have any film honestly, I would just say,

1431
01:25:34,600 --> 01:25:37,120
Speaker 1: I just want more of Charlie's doing this forever, Like

1432
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:41,120
Speaker 1: clearly it's what she wants to do. She like her

1433
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:44,280
Speaker 1: affinity for martial arts is one of my favorite things

1434
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:47,920
Speaker 1: because she's just slowly like picking up all of these

1435
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:51,920
Speaker 1: different skills that makes her both an incredible performer, but

1436
01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:55,080
Speaker 1: just like, good god, how intimidating could someone be? Or

1437
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:58,160
Speaker 1: it's just like, I know, I don't know if she

1438
01:25:58,200 --> 01:25:59,800
Speaker 1: knows kype Awera, but I'm going to assume that she

1439
01:25:59,840 --> 01:26:05,240
Speaker 1: does probably. But I just I want more Western action stars.

1440
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:07,559
Speaker 1: I want more women in action. I want more people

1441
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:11,080
Speaker 1: that I actually like learn and like their own fight coreo.

1442
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:15,600
Speaker 1: And I also want more like older actors to be

1443
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 1: able to because it's such a bummer that like a

1444
01:26:17,479 --> 01:26:20,000
Speaker 1: lot of these actors have been around forever doing direct

1445
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: to video and now that they're actually like starting to

1446
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:25,519
Speaker 1: like get their flowers and they're older, I'm like, I

1447
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:28,040
Speaker 1: still want them to be involved in their forties fifties.

1448
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:31,479
Speaker 1: I don't care. Yeah, God, I was like Charlie's is like,

1449
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:35,720
Speaker 1: Charlie's should be an action star into her like seventies

1450
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:39,200
Speaker 1: and eighties if she wants to. Certainly hasn't stopped American

1451
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:45,240
Speaker 1: action stars being like, yeah, look at Bruce willis expendable, right,

1452
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:50,000
Speaker 1: and also none of the fighting is good in the expendables. No,

1453
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:53,840
Speaker 1: I would be very excited too. I also saw that

1454
01:26:54,439 --> 01:26:58,120
Speaker 1: um Atomic Blonde or Lorraine might enter the john Wick

1455
01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:01,840
Speaker 1: universe at some point and that they too might intersect, Like, oh,

1456
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:04,400
Speaker 1: that would be kind of cool. I don't know. I

1457
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 1: would be stoked to see a sequel for this, and

1458
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 1: I would, honestly, I mean, I would love to see

1459
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:15,360
Speaker 1: action Charlie's in a movie directed and written by women

1460
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:18,680
Speaker 1: who excel in the action genre. That would be like

1461
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:24,880
Speaker 1: god tear because she's fucking yes. Oh. My last thought

1462
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:29,479
Speaker 1: was the title of this movie, which is reducing a

1463
01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 1: woman to her hair color. Um, isn't it an existing term?

1464
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:38,080
Speaker 1: Is that? I don't know. I'm not sure. Isn't it?

1465
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:42,360
Speaker 1: Is it? Or is it a play on like atomic bomb? Yeah? Yeah,

1466
01:27:42,439 --> 01:27:45,200
Speaker 1: I get My thing was like, I mean, john Wick

1467
01:27:45,400 --> 01:27:50,840
Speaker 1: wasn't called john Wick has dark brown hair? Yeah? Maybe

1468
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:54,040
Speaker 1: it should have been. Maybe it should have been, especially

1469
01:27:54,040 --> 01:27:56,760
Speaker 1: because like the graphic novel was based that this movie

1470
01:27:56,840 --> 01:28:00,400
Speaker 1: was based on is called The Coldest City. So it's

1471
01:28:00,600 --> 01:28:04,519
Speaker 1: it's changing it too from what I can tell the

1472
01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:08,760
Speaker 1: color of the hair of the protagonist. But yeah, and

1473
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:11,240
Speaker 1: it had the same name as the graphic novel for

1474
01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 1: a while. I'm wondering when in development it changed, because

1475
01:28:14,320 --> 01:28:15,880
Speaker 1: you even see a nod to it at the end.

1476
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:18,719
Speaker 1: Credits where it like comes up and he goes password

1477
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:20,880
Speaker 1: and it types in like the Coldest War and like

1478
01:28:21,160 --> 01:28:22,920
Speaker 1: it unlocks the credits. And that's because that was like

1479
01:28:22,960 --> 01:28:25,920
Speaker 1: the original name for like however long before some producer

1480
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:28,760
Speaker 1: was like I want this. That does sound like something

1481
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:31,400
Speaker 1: a studio would do to be like wait a second,

1482
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:38,120
Speaker 1: like get her pretty hair. Yeah, it's very studio note Anyway,

1483
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:40,800
Speaker 1: that was just my final thought. Does it pass the

1484
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 1: back adults past? It does? Between Delphine and the rain, Um, yeah,

1485
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:51,639
Speaker 1: they do talk about Percival and just maybe some other men.

1486
01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:54,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's there's a pretty long conversation where they're

1487
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:58,559
Speaker 1: where Dolphin's like, I don't even know what I'm doing?

1488
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:02,040
Speaker 1: How do you? How do you spy? You're talking about

1489
01:29:02,040 --> 01:29:05,040
Speaker 1: how little she wants to be a spy, and like

1490
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:11,000
Speaker 1: the overarching story is just Lorraine talking about her day. Yeah, yeah,

1491
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:15,880
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, listen to women talk about their days.

1492
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:19,599
Speaker 1: They don't think they actually want to be spies. After all?

1493
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:25,960
Speaker 1: Too late r I P. Let's let's go to the

1494
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:29,479
Speaker 1: nipple scale. Oh yes, our nipple scale zero to five

1495
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:35,760
Speaker 1: nipples based on an examination of intersectional feminism. I think

1496
01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:39,840
Speaker 1: I'll give this two and a half or three. Maybe

1497
01:29:39,960 --> 01:29:43,400
Speaker 1: it's too harsh, maybe that's too generous. I truly never

1498
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:46,800
Speaker 1: know what to rate any movie on our scale, but

1499
01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:49,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's really cool that you have

1500
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:53,680
Speaker 1: this what was like a box office success. A lot

1501
01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:58,519
Speaker 1: of people saw this movie, female driven action movie with

1502
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:03,000
Speaker 1: really really cool fight choreography and really really cool action

1503
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:11,200
Speaker 1: and just like solidifying Charlie's as a legitimate action movie star. Um,

1504
01:30:11,880 --> 01:30:15,920
Speaker 1: some you know, missteps were I just I think while

1505
01:30:16,280 --> 01:30:19,720
Speaker 1: it's a step forward to include a queer character as

1506
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:23,599
Speaker 1: the hero of an action movie, it doesn't necessarily mean

1507
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:27,320
Speaker 1: that that representation was like the most responsible. Especially it's

1508
01:30:27,400 --> 01:30:32,519
Speaker 1: like the use of the different tropes and things like that. Um,

1509
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:35,280
Speaker 1: there's still a ways to go, but the fact that

1510
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:37,920
Speaker 1: it is there, it feels like a you know, we

1511
01:30:37,960 --> 01:30:41,880
Speaker 1: talked about this a lot where there's a an unfortunate

1512
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:46,640
Speaker 1: need for like stepping stone movies that like pave the

1513
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:51,560
Speaker 1: way for more responsible and inclusive representation. So that's what

1514
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:56,600
Speaker 1: this feels like. I think that there definitely could have

1515
01:30:56,760 --> 01:31:00,840
Speaker 1: been any diversity and instead it's just a bunch of

1516
01:31:00,960 --> 01:31:04,720
Speaker 1: white people. So you know, there's some some things that

1517
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:11,160
Speaker 1: I would change to improve this movie. But uh and

1518
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:14,519
Speaker 1: I mean, gosh, someone take another pass at the script

1519
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:19,840
Speaker 1: and make it less confusing, please, Yeah, Like, let's cut

1520
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:22,040
Speaker 1: out a couple of character, a couple of bearded guys.

1521
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:25,280
Speaker 1: I was thinking, So I did not Okay, another thing.

1522
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:27,200
Speaker 1: I had no idea who she was killing in that

1523
01:31:27,320 --> 01:31:30,080
Speaker 1: last scene. I was like, who is this? Huh? That

1524
01:31:30,360 --> 01:31:34,000
Speaker 1: was the main Soviet bad guy, but he's only in

1525
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:36,479
Speaker 1: a couple of scenes before that, pretty briefly. And then

1526
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:39,639
Speaker 1: there's another Soviet bad guy who then dies halfway through,

1527
01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:42,240
Speaker 1: and it's like, can't you just combine those two characters?

1528
01:31:42,720 --> 01:31:44,160
Speaker 1: I thought it was him, and I was like, I

1529
01:31:44,240 --> 01:31:46,840
Speaker 1: thought he was dead there, And when I looked it up,

1530
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:49,000
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, no, she could he was at

1531
01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:52,479
Speaker 1: a restaurant earlier. I was like, yes, uh yeah, But

1532
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:55,400
Speaker 1: but I was like I was supposed to care about that.

1533
01:31:55,600 --> 01:31:59,120
Speaker 1: That was confusing. Too many people to look after. There's

1534
01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:01,200
Speaker 1: there's too many men to keep you. I mean, I

1535
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:04,200
Speaker 1: I guess I can, um, you know, empathize with Lorraine too,

1536
01:32:04,200 --> 01:32:06,479
Speaker 1: because she was able to keep all these men, you know,

1537
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:10,040
Speaker 1: like straight in her head. I couldn't couldn't do the job,

1538
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:13,120
Speaker 1: No wonder she needed the list. She was like, who

1539
01:32:13,160 --> 01:32:18,120
Speaker 1: the funk are all these people? But yeah, so you

1540
01:32:18,240 --> 01:32:21,080
Speaker 1: know that has nothing to do with, you know, how

1541
01:32:21,160 --> 01:32:23,479
Speaker 1: we examine the movie, but I still like, well, it

1542
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:25,960
Speaker 1: kind of does, because I'm like, I wish there were

1543
01:32:26,080 --> 01:32:28,799
Speaker 1: just like better movies that are going to like stand

1544
01:32:28,840 --> 01:32:30,760
Speaker 1: the test of time and that people are going to

1545
01:32:30,880 --> 01:32:33,360
Speaker 1: like watch over and over and over again because they're

1546
01:32:33,400 --> 01:32:38,559
Speaker 1: just like such good movies that star women. I don't

1547
01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:42,760
Speaker 1: know how, like how much longevity this movie will have

1548
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:47,040
Speaker 1: because it is kind of like, you know, there's some

1549
01:32:47,240 --> 01:32:52,080
Speaker 1: rocky storytelling happening. So it's like, not only do we

1550
01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:55,760
Speaker 1: have to represent women responsibly in movies, but like make

1551
01:32:55,840 --> 01:32:59,080
Speaker 1: sure the stories that are being told are like good

1552
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:01,160
Speaker 1: and like that people will like them and want to

1553
01:33:01,280 --> 01:33:05,160
Speaker 1: keep rewatching them so that we just like have those

1554
01:33:05,240 --> 01:33:09,240
Speaker 1: movies to to revisit and connect with as audiences. So

1555
01:33:10,200 --> 01:33:12,759
Speaker 1: with all that in mind, I'll still give it three nipples,

1556
01:33:13,200 --> 01:33:19,559
Speaker 1: and I'll give one to Charlie's I will give one

1557
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:25,000
Speaker 1: to Delphine because she deserved more, and you know what,

1558
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:28,240
Speaker 1: I'll give one to John Goodman's hat. Yeah I was

1559
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:32,040
Speaker 1: doing some real acting. Yeah, it really stole the show.

1560
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:35,080
Speaker 1: I really did I'll go. I guess I'll go three

1561
01:33:35,080 --> 01:33:37,000
Speaker 1: as well. I'm tended to go a little lower, but

1562
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:40,439
Speaker 1: I can't fully articulate WI, so I won't. Um. Yeah,

1563
01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:42,880
Speaker 1: I I think that the action in this movie is

1564
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:48,040
Speaker 1: sucking incredible. Charlie's carries it the action sequences for the

1565
01:33:48,120 --> 01:33:51,120
Speaker 1: most part, except how Delphine is killed. Um. I thought,

1566
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:56,080
Speaker 1: we're like really really cool and just like in like

1567
01:33:56,280 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 1: American movies, like you just don't get a lot of it.

1568
01:33:59,479 --> 01:34:02,639
Speaker 1: And and I loved that Charlie's was like the driving

1569
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:05,680
Speaker 1: force behind getting this project made and getting it made

1570
01:34:05,720 --> 01:34:08,160
Speaker 1: the way she wanted it. Like those stories are always

1571
01:34:08,200 --> 01:34:13,559
Speaker 1: so cool and like give you hope. Um, even though

1572
01:34:13,720 --> 01:34:15,920
Speaker 1: the you know, precedent of all you know having to

1573
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:18,679
Speaker 1: already be ridiculously successful in order to get a movie

1574
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:22,560
Speaker 1: the way you want it made is frustrating and not

1575
01:34:22,720 --> 01:34:25,559
Speaker 1: always I mean, I love using that little Wes Anderson

1576
01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:29,280
Speaker 1: anecdote of like someone just being like, here's ten million dollars,

1577
01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:33,600
Speaker 1: see what you've come up with? Um, But she, you know,

1578
01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 1: she she got it made, she got it made the

1579
01:34:35,439 --> 01:34:38,880
Speaker 1: way she wanted to, and she kicks fucking ass in it. Uh.

1580
01:34:38,960 --> 01:34:43,120
Speaker 1: And I'm deducting for I didn't like how Delphin's character

1581
01:34:43,920 --> 01:34:46,680
Speaker 1: was kind of like slowly scaled down, scaled down and

1582
01:34:46,760 --> 01:34:49,519
Speaker 1: then killed in lingerie um in a way that would

1583
01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, keep her looking a very particular way when

1584
01:34:52,720 --> 01:34:56,200
Speaker 1: the body was found. And it's just kind of a

1585
01:34:56,439 --> 01:34:59,080
Speaker 1: such a sausage party on the on the production side,

1586
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:02,639
Speaker 1: and in terms of I think, particularly with the writer

1587
01:35:02,960 --> 01:35:06,720
Speaker 1: where like like we were talking about I just a

1588
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:09,640
Speaker 1: straight guy being like would it be cool? Like is

1589
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:13,400
Speaker 1: just you can tell? I don't know? That is literally

1590
01:35:13,479 --> 01:35:16,479
Speaker 1: what they did. They're like, yeah, this is gonna be

1591
01:35:16,960 --> 01:35:21,080
Speaker 1: hot and cool and provocative if we make women kiss

1592
01:35:21,160 --> 01:35:24,280
Speaker 1: each other the word provocative. You're like, okay, So they

1593
01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:27,240
Speaker 1: just like we just need other voices in the room here, Like,

1594
01:35:28,240 --> 01:35:30,760
Speaker 1: uh so yeah, I'll go I'll go with three. And

1595
01:35:30,880 --> 01:35:34,040
Speaker 1: it was a fun movie, fucking confusing as hell. Uh

1596
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:38,760
Speaker 1: but like for in terms of the action, it's unbelievable.

1597
01:35:39,200 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 1: So I will give a nipple to Charlie's and I

1598
01:35:43,160 --> 01:35:48,080
Speaker 1: would give a nipple to Bill Scarce Guard, and I'll

1599
01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:53,080
Speaker 1: give a nipple to Delphine Vanessa. What about you? Um,

1600
01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:55,639
Speaker 1: I mean, y'all covered a lot of the same reasons.

1601
01:35:55,840 --> 01:35:58,640
Speaker 1: For like the reading, I want to give it um

1602
01:35:58,720 --> 01:36:00,320
Speaker 1: although I am, I'm giving it a three and a

1603
01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:03,840
Speaker 1: half nipples, And there's a there's a specific reason for

1604
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:06,120
Speaker 1: the half and that's because anybody that's ever just like

1605
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:09,479
Speaker 1: watched a lot of like action martial arts punching knows

1606
01:36:09,640 --> 01:36:12,280
Speaker 1: that like a lot of like male action stars get

1607
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:16,040
Speaker 1: to have their like direct to video movies or like

1608
01:36:16,160 --> 01:36:20,160
Speaker 1: the action is dope, but the story stinks and it's

1609
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:23,240
Speaker 1: kind of middling, and yeah, you know what, I want

1610
01:36:23,360 --> 01:36:26,280
Speaker 1: female action stars to also be able to comfortably live

1611
01:36:26,320 --> 01:36:29,600
Speaker 1: in just like mediocre and may because we either have

1612
01:36:29,680 --> 01:36:33,120
Speaker 1: to be incredible or we don't exist. And like, honestly,

1613
01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:37,040
Speaker 1: if Charlie's does a million movies where it's just like, uh,

1614
01:36:37,800 --> 01:36:40,760
Speaker 1: are we there yet, but with punching, because you know,

1615
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:43,559
Speaker 1: she just decides to do the direct to video action thing,

1616
01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:46,720
Speaker 1: then like cool, I want that for women to So

1617
01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:50,559
Speaker 1: the half star is because I want. I I love

1618
01:36:50,600 --> 01:36:53,280
Speaker 1: any opportunity in which women just gets to get to

1619
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:57,599
Speaker 1: have an thing. And that's fine, Yes, that's very true. Yeah,

1620
01:36:57,680 --> 01:37:03,160
Speaker 1: getting mediocrity accessible to everyone should be a priority. Dude,

1621
01:37:03,200 --> 01:37:08,800
Speaker 1: get to do it all the time, too much, amazing, Well,

1622
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:12,560
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. You come back anytime.

1623
01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:15,840
Speaker 1: I would love to. This is so fun. And tell

1624
01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:19,800
Speaker 1: us about the podcast. Oh yeah, Kicking and Screaming is

1625
01:37:20,080 --> 01:37:23,719
Speaker 1: a podcast I co host with my husband. I actually

1626
01:37:23,800 --> 01:37:27,040
Speaker 1: came in as the screaming and because he was the

1627
01:37:27,080 --> 01:37:29,680
Speaker 1: one with the martial arts background, and like loved it,

1628
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:32,120
Speaker 1: but then I ended up just falling deeply in love

1629
01:37:32,200 --> 01:37:35,720
Speaker 1: with both genres. But basically what we do is, uh,

1630
01:37:36,120 --> 01:37:38,599
Speaker 1: we take either a horror movie or an action martial

1631
01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:41,640
Speaker 1: arts movie, and one of us picks one, and then

1632
01:37:41,680 --> 01:37:43,960
Speaker 1: the other one has to counter with one of the

1633
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:46,880
Speaker 1: other genre to make a double feature, because frequently, if

1634
01:37:46,920 --> 01:37:48,400
Speaker 1: you like one, you're going to like the other one.

1635
01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:50,559
Speaker 1: A lot of horror people don't realize they love martial

1636
01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:52,240
Speaker 1: arts yet, and a lot of people that are like

1637
01:37:52,320 --> 01:37:54,760
Speaker 1: into kung fu movies don't realize that they like horror yet.

1638
01:37:55,560 --> 01:37:57,720
Speaker 1: So for example, like there was one were I did

1639
01:37:57,760 --> 01:38:01,560
Speaker 1: pick Bright of Chucky and he picked The Heroes of

1640
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:05,560
Speaker 1: the East, which is another really good one with a

1641
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:08,960
Speaker 1: female action star at the Helm, which was like a

1642
01:38:09,040 --> 01:38:12,000
Speaker 1: marriage based one. But I end up finding out stuff

1643
01:38:12,040 --> 01:38:14,559
Speaker 1: I didn't know that i'd love yet, or just examining

1644
01:38:14,600 --> 01:38:16,920
Speaker 1: stuff that I already dug and it's just a fun

1645
01:38:17,000 --> 01:38:21,559
Speaker 1: little genre party. So awesome, thank you. And then where

1646
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:25,960
Speaker 1: can people follow you online? Your social media? Anything else

1647
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:28,280
Speaker 1: you want to plug? Oh? Yeah, you can find me

1648
01:38:28,439 --> 01:38:33,040
Speaker 1: under at ness grittin it's still my ex husband's name.

1649
01:38:33,520 --> 01:38:34,960
Speaker 1: Any s g R I T T O N on

1650
01:38:35,040 --> 01:38:38,200
Speaker 1: all forms of social media. Uh. You can find the

1651
01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:41,760
Speaker 1: actual podcast, kick screen Pod under kick screen Pod on

1652
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:44,360
Speaker 1: all firms of social media. And if you're into horror,

1653
01:38:44,479 --> 01:38:48,640
Speaker 1: I just did a series where I interviewed some incredible

1654
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:52,280
Speaker 1: women filmmakers and horror for a Women in Horror series

1655
01:38:52,479 --> 01:38:54,800
Speaker 1: and it's one of my favorite series of interviews I've

1656
01:38:54,840 --> 01:38:56,880
Speaker 1: ever done. You can watch me slowly fall in love

1657
01:38:56,920 --> 01:39:00,439
Speaker 1: with every single one of these filmmakers. That's awesome. Oh

1658
01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:03,240
Speaker 1: that's so cool. Uh. And then you can follow us

1659
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:07,680
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram at bechtel Cast. You can subscribe

1660
01:39:07,720 --> 01:39:12,280
Speaker 1: to our Matreon at patreon dot com slash becktel Cast.

1661
01:39:12,360 --> 01:39:14,479
Speaker 1: It get to you two bonus episodes a month. It's

1662
01:39:14,680 --> 01:39:18,320
Speaker 1: five dollars. And then there's also our entire back catalog

1663
01:39:18,439 --> 01:39:23,840
Speaker 1: of bonuses. So scoot on over to Patreon and subscribe.

1664
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:27,599
Speaker 1: Good scoot. Just to reminder Jamie that um I am

1665
01:39:27,680 --> 01:39:31,200
Speaker 1: defecting from the Bechtel Cast. Uh. You can find us

1666
01:39:31,240 --> 01:39:35,879
Speaker 1: on at Behind the Bastards UM just where our podcast

1667
01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:38,799
Speaker 1: is now okay by everyone,