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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and we are back.

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Speaker 1: It is Saturday. It is time to go into the

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Speaker 1: vault for a classic Stuff to Blow your Mind episode.

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Speaker 1: This one is going to be an episode we did

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Speaker 1: on jumping and flying fish after Robert saw some leaping

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Speaker 1: mullets in Florida. Yeah. I believe it was the coolest springs.

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Speaker 1: This is one of several episodes that ended up being

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Speaker 1: in Well, really, I think both of us have had

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Speaker 1: episodes that have been inspired by vacations. We would go

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Speaker 1: out into the world, we relax a little bit, we

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Speaker 1: learned something, and then we come back and we want

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Speaker 1: a podcast on it. And this in this case, I said,

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Speaker 1: a less podcast about jumping fish. Trust me, it's more

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Speaker 1: interesting than it sounds, and it is. We never end

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Speaker 1: up doing like the science of Margarita's No, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: I think maybe you went on vacation and then we

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Speaker 1: did the science of cocktails. We did right, well, um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that was vacation related, but it was.

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Speaker 1: It was certainly based on interest in cocktails. Well, that

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Speaker 1: was a Christmas gift inspired when I received books about

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Speaker 1: cocktails for Christmas, and then I was like, hey, let's

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Speaker 1: do an episode on this. Well, the jumping Fish episode

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Speaker 1: turned out to be a lot more interesting of a

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Speaker 1: topic than I might have expected going in, So I

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Speaker 1: thought this one was a lot of fun and we

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Speaker 1: are happy to bring it back to you. This originally

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Speaker 1: aired Thursday, July sixteen, and here it is again for

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Speaker 1: your listening pleasure. Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind

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Speaker 1: from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe McCormick. So, Robert, I know that recently you

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Speaker 1: were on vacation somewhere. I was, Yeah, I went down

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Speaker 1: to Florida with the family, and on the way back

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Speaker 1: up we stopped at this place called Wakola Springs. Cooling

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Speaker 1: Springs State Park in Florida near Tallahassee. Ended up just

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Speaker 1: being really delightful. What's this place like? Basically, what you

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Speaker 1: have here is just an enormous spring, Okay, like a

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Speaker 1: geological spring. Water coming out of the ground. Yeah, water

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Speaker 1: coming out of the ground, water coming out of just

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Speaker 1: enormous caverns that are under the water here, really clear

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Speaker 1: water and it maintains a constant temperature of around sixty

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Speaker 1: nine or seventy degrees so when winter comes it's a

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Speaker 1: haven for manatees, and especially manatees, but other creatures too

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Speaker 1: that that did want that constant temperature. Um. Interestingly enough,

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Speaker 1: they filmed a few scenes from the creature from the

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Speaker 1: from the Black Lagoon there, Yeah, particularly the creatures layer. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You get to pass by that if you take these

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Speaker 1: boat tours uh, and that's really the main reason. Ago.

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Speaker 1: You can swim there, but you can, but you get

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Speaker 1: to go in these these really cool boat tours where

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Speaker 1: you get to see all of these crazy estuary um

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Speaker 1: uh species doing their thing, all the diving birds, gators,

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Speaker 1: gators laying in the sun by the dozens, get to

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Speaker 1: see manatees, and you also get to see these uh

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Speaker 1: these mullets, the fish mullet, not the hairstyle. You probably

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Speaker 1: saw some of those. Yeah, I think I did see

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Speaker 1: see a traditional um hairstyle mullet here there, But but yeah,

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Speaker 1: these are the fish and they're just leaping out of

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Speaker 1: the water. It's like it's you look around, you expect

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Speaker 1: to see like a Disney princess waiting around like that's

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Speaker 1: how active the wildlife is here. And uh, but but

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Speaker 1: it really makes you think, like, why are these creatures,

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Speaker 1: why of these fish jumping out of the water. If

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Speaker 1: you're like me and you didn't have a lot of

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Speaker 1: preconceived notions, or you hadn't researched it before, you might think, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: there's all sorts of animals around here, they're gators in

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Speaker 1: the water. They're probably jumping out of the water to

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Speaker 1: escape predators. Right, Yeah, that makes pretty easy sense. A

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Speaker 1: lot of the maneuvering you'd see and the fish, especially

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Speaker 1: a prey species, would be fleeing behavior. And yet it

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Speaker 1: turns out there's more to it than that. And uh,

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Speaker 1: not only with the with mullets, but with other species

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Speaker 1: of ish as well. And that's the reason we're having

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Speaker 1: this episode discuss some of the mystery, some of the theories, uh,

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Speaker 1: some of the at times myths surrounding leaping fish, fish

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Speaker 1: that actually throw themselves out of the water, out of

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Speaker 1: their their habitat, their aquatic habitat, into this strange, alien

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Speaker 1: world of gases and vapors. Yeah, when you think about it,

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Speaker 1: it is so weird. Um, it's hard for us to

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Speaker 1: imagine what it's like crossing this boundary between worlds from

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Speaker 1: the water up into the land of gas into the atmosphere.

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Speaker 1: Because it's not exactly like a terrestrial animal diving into

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Speaker 1: the water, because when you jump out of the water,

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Speaker 1: the water is your natural environment. Gravity is always going

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Speaker 1: to be pulling you back down into this watery world.

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Speaker 1: Plus there's just so much more going on underwater than

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Speaker 1: there is going on in the air. I mean, on

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Speaker 1: the land is one thing, but you know, think about

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Speaker 1: what most of the air above the water is like.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's a void. Under the water is another ecosystem.

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Speaker 1: Leaping into the air is almost as if terrestrial animals

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Speaker 1: could briefly leap into outer space. Yeah, or at least me,

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Speaker 1: It makes me think of the part in Phantasm where

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Speaker 1: they go through like the stargate into the barren world

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Speaker 1: with the dwarves or hauling stuff around. It is like

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Speaker 1: it's like zipping out of your world into another and

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Speaker 1: then coming back into your your world, perhaps in a

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Speaker 1: different location, making it kind of kind of like that

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Speaker 1: teleport that the raiding character does in the first couple

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Speaker 1: of Mortal Kombat games. You know, it's great, Yeah, what

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Speaker 1: does he say? When he teleports or does he have one? Um?

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Speaker 1: I have something he says when he does the Superman,

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Speaker 1: but I don't remember if he says anything when he teleports.

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Speaker 1: But maybe he should. He just grins and as lightning

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Speaker 1: come out of his eyes. What he should do? I

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Speaker 1: hope someday somebody goes back to the first Mortal Kombat

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Speaker 1: game and dubs in Christopher Lambert's lines from the movie.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right, I forgot that he played the

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Speaker 1: first one. But back to leaping fish. Yeah, So, Robert,

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Speaker 1: knowing your inquisitive nature, I bet you asked somebody at

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Speaker 1: the park about the mullet jumping behavior, didn't you. I did,

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Speaker 1: and the park ranger was very insightful and all this

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Speaker 1: and mentioned that they're a handful of theories here, okay, um,

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Speaker 1: and the idea that they're escaping predators is not one

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Speaker 1: of them. So one is that they may jump to

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Speaker 1: dislodge parasites, and certainly, aquatic life is full of many

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Speaker 1: strange parasite removal strategies, including allowing cleaner organisms to crawl

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Speaker 1: into your body? Right? Um? Wait, what allowing cleaner you've seen?

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Speaker 1: I see you mean? Um, an organism that does cleaning,

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Speaker 1: not a relatively cleaner organisms, no, no no, no, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: talking like allowing a small shrimp to climb into your

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Speaker 1: gills or your mouth in order to eat these things. Um,

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Speaker 1: even at times, even allowing creatures from the air to

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Speaker 1: come down and feast on your parasites. I believe it's

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Speaker 1: the sunfish that does that allows all of certain birds

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Speaker 1: to help remove its parasites. That's fantastic. Now can you

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Speaker 1: imagine if every time we got like a guinea worm

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Speaker 1: or something like that, we could just leap into outer

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Speaker 1: space to try. Well, that sounds kind of ridiculous and

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Speaker 1: and indeed that's go one of the criticisms against this

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Speaker 1: theory um broadly speaking concerning fish, because you see that

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Speaker 1: thrown out a lot with with jumping fish. Oh, it's

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Speaker 1: a parasite removal strategy. But critics of this theory will

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Speaker 1: point out that, hey, parasites, once they get in you,

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Speaker 1: they have ways of lodging themselves where they want to be,

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Speaker 1: just merely that the frantic leaping through the air is

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Speaker 1: not going to dislodge them. Well, then what are the

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Speaker 1: other theories? Well, the crazier theory and this is one

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Speaker 1: that I find really interesting is that mullets spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of their time in waters that are low and

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Speaker 1: dissolved oxygen, and so they may exit the water in

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Speaker 1: order to clear their gills and expose themselves to higher

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Speaker 1: levels of oxygen. So that that really blew my mind

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Speaker 1: the idea that essentially the fish is coming out of

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Speaker 1: the water to breathe and then returned. But fish breathe,

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Speaker 1: I know, but but it's this is one of the theories. Um.

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Speaker 1: They also may jump during spawning season to break over

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Speaker 1: their eggs acts in preparation for the spawn, and marine

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Speaker 1: biologist Dr Grant Gilmore thinks it may come down to

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Speaker 1: their sometimes dark habitats. They may jump in these cases

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Speaker 1: to let others in the school know where they are,

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Speaker 1: so in this case it would be a form of

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Speaker 1: communication or social signaling, which comes up later in this

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Speaker 1: episode with some of the other jumping fish, we talk

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Speaker 1: about some of the more ferocious ones. Alright, so for

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Speaker 1: the rest of this episode, we're gonna be looking at

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Speaker 1: some of these some of the most interesting fish jumping

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Speaker 1: behaviors around the world. And I want to say that

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Speaker 1: I found this topic way more interesting than I expected to. Yeah, first,

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Speaker 1: I was like Okay, what is there to say about

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Speaker 1: fish jumping? They jump? But but fish jumping can be

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Speaker 1: very strange, can be a danger, can be a nuisance,

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Speaker 1: can be very money. Uh, and the reasons why they

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Speaker 1: do it are more mysterious in some cases than I

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Speaker 1: would have guessed. But okay, so I guess we should

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Speaker 1: start broadly. What do we know about in general why

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Speaker 1: fish jump? Well, oh, and start one more thing, I

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Speaker 1: should say, we should specify you all out there. You

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Speaker 1: know the difference between a fish and a mammal. So

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Speaker 1: you've seen dolphins jump playing in the waves or at

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Speaker 1: a dolphin show, or uh, maybe just playing echo of

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Speaker 1: the dolphin. We're not talking about mammals today. This is

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Speaker 1: gonna be a fish focused episode. Yeah. I mean there's

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Speaker 1: even a gliding squid that propels itself out of the

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Speaker 1: ocean by shooting out a jet of water at high

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Speaker 1: a high pressure water jet. We're not gonna get into

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Speaker 1: that either. Well, if there's enough demand, will save other

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Speaker 1: leaping um sea life for other episodes. But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think a good place to start is just to sort

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Speaker 1: of go back to this idea that okay, fish jump

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Speaker 1: out of the water to escape predators and acknowledge that yes,

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Speaker 1: this actually is a strategy with some creatures, for instance,

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Speaker 1: killie fish. Now they're roughly one thousand, two hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy different species of killy fish, and most are fully

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Speaker 1: aquatic with no obvious morphological specializations for terrestrial locomotion. Locomotion

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Speaker 1: individuals from several different species have been observed moving across

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Speaker 1: land though via a tail flip behavior that generates a

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Speaker 1: terrestrial jump. But wait a minute, so this isn't just

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Speaker 1: jumping into the air. This is jumping onto a dry

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Speaker 1: land surface. Yeah, it's essentially it's getting due to too

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Speaker 1: dangerous in the water, I gotta jump out and and

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Speaker 1: then flop back in. And they do. They do this

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Speaker 1: to escape predators or occasionally apparently pour water conditions. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so in our outer space analogy, this is more like,

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Speaker 1: instead of just briefly leaping into outer space, if things

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Speaker 1: got really hairy wherever you were, you could jump onto

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Speaker 1: the moon for a minute and then jump back down

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Speaker 1: somewhere on Earth. Yeah, or taking like you know, a

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Speaker 1: proposed space tourism flight that just sends you into low

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Speaker 1: orbit and then brings you back down. Huh, be that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing I think, uh, but indeed kind of

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Speaker 1: like Raiden's teleport where he's blinking out of this world,

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Speaker 1: I guess going to some godland and then coming back

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Speaker 1: into the picture somewhere else. And this is interesting because too,

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Speaker 1: because that the aquatic amphibious distinction is a key because

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Speaker 1: it's one thing for saying, air breathing walking catfish for

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Speaker 1: mud skippers or lungfish to behave in this baby this

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Speaker 1: way because they've taken things to the next level, right

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Speaker 1: bordering on you know, creature from the Black Lagoon or

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Speaker 1: bloodwaters of doctor Z territory. But aquatic fish that just

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Speaker 1: seems crazy, right, Um? So yeah, the tail flip flings

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Speaker 1: him out of the water through the air several body

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Speaker 1: lengths sometimes out of the water and onto the bank,

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Speaker 1: and then they have to flip to get back in.

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Speaker 1: Sounds dangerous though, I mean, if you you're a fish,

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Speaker 1: you flip out of the water and then you rapidly

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Speaker 1: twist your body around to try to flip back into

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Speaker 1: the water. I mean, you've only got a very limited

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Speaker 1: amount of time, they're right, right, yeah, because if you

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Speaker 1: because the big risks here are that you're going to

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Speaker 1: you're gonna you could dry out or gets sixty eight.

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Speaker 1: So and and you know, of course also banking on

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Speaker 1: the idea that there are no um terrestrial predators on

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Speaker 1: the water bank. So that's the killie fish. Yeah, what

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Speaker 1: else do we have take us to the next the

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Speaker 1: next level here with our leaping aquatic creatures. Well, I

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Speaker 1: want to talk Robert about an Asian carponado. Oh sounds good, okay,

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Speaker 1: so stop me. If you've seen this video, this YouTube

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Speaker 1: video before, You've got two passengers sitting in a boat

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Speaker 1: there in twin seats, facing off the stern of a

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Speaker 1: fishing boat with an outboard motor. Is this guy father

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Speaker 1: to no? No, this is a grainy YouTube, okaysing to

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Speaker 1: set to some slick new metal riffs. Now, the boat

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Speaker 1: appears to be sitting in like a river or a lake.

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Speaker 1: It's opaque fresh water, and each of the two passengers

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Speaker 1: sitting facing off the back of the boat are holding

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Speaker 1: a compound hunting bow with a knocked arrow, and the

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Speaker 1: driver then throttles up the engine. The boat starts to

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Speaker 1: move in these lines of why churning wake peel out

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Speaker 1: the back of the boat and you can see the

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Speaker 1: waves coming out. And as this happens, dozens of fish

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Speaker 1: or maybe hundreds of fish begin to leap out of

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Speaker 1: the water into the air by the looks of it,

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Speaker 1: sometimes flying above the heads of the passengers and they

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Speaker 1: arc over the boat. Sometimes they fly right into somebody's

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Speaker 1: neck and slap them on the face if fish hits

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Speaker 1: you in the back or it lands flopping in the

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Speaker 1: driver's lap, And as you would expect based on the setup,

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Speaker 1: the passengers try to shoot the fish with their arrows

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Speaker 1: as they leap through the air. And other similar videos

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Speaker 1: you might scratch the bow and arrow and feature just

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Speaker 1: nets people trying to catch the fish with nets or

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Speaker 1: shooting at them with shotguns, trying to hit him with

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Speaker 1: baseball bats or maybe a modified baseball bat with nails

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Speaker 1: in it, uh pitchforks, et cetera. I might add that

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Speaker 1: in the very first video I watched that I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: the one with the compound bow, it was sort of

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Speaker 1: this fish human collision super cut with with the new

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Speaker 1: metal background mu zick. It looks pretty dangerous, especially because

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Speaker 1: there are sometimes other boats in the water down range

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Speaker 1: of the bow fishers. So we are not recommending this behavior. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it sounds sounds a bit reckless, but what's going on here?

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Speaker 1: Why why are these hundreds of fish flying through the

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Speaker 1: air to be shot of? I need a better metaphor

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Speaker 1: than like fish in a barrel, like like fish in

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Speaker 1: outer space. Uh. Well, the video identifies these very unfortunate

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Speaker 1: vaulting fish as Asian carp, and I can't confirm the

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Speaker 1: identification through all the graininess. But but this would make

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Speaker 1: sense because some species of so called Asian carp are

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Speaker 1: known for this bizarre frenzy jumping behavior in the presence

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Speaker 1: of boats. So what are Asian carpet? Asian carp is

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Speaker 1: not one species, but it's a common group name applied

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Speaker 1: to several species of carp native to East and Southeast Asia,

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Speaker 1: including waterways of Siberia, China, and Vietnam. And these species

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Speaker 1: would be bighead carp, black carp, grass carp, and silver carp.

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Speaker 1: So carp belonged to the freshwater fish family known as Cyprinids,

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Speaker 1: and before the Asian carp were introduced a couple of

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Speaker 1: decades ago, there there were already carp in North America

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Speaker 1: that were considered kind of a benign nuisance species. But

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Speaker 1: several species now known as Asian carp were introduced the

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Speaker 1: United States in the nineteen sixties and seventies, and originally

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Speaker 1: they were contained. They were contained in southern aquaculture and

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Speaker 1: sewage treatment enclosures, I think in Arkansas. Originally I saw

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Speaker 1: and so the idea was that these imported carp would

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Speaker 1: help control contaminants in these areas. For example, they'd swim

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Speaker 1: around and eat algae out of ponds that were being

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Speaker 1: used as fish farms, like for catfish farming. But flooding events,

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Speaker 1: of course, often connect waters that are not apparently connected,

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Speaker 1: and so flooding allowed these non native species to escape

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Speaker 1: their farms and enclosures and spread into natural waterways around

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Speaker 1: the Mississippi Watershed, and now they're all over the place.

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Speaker 1: They're spread all over freshwater fisheries in the Midwest and

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Speaker 1: beyond there in the Mississippi, they're in the Illinois River.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of people are worried about these and

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Speaker 1: consider them UH an invasive species since they can represent

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Speaker 1: a threat to native wildlife. They reproduce quickly, they grow quickly,

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Speaker 1: they supposedly degrade the quality of aquatic environments, and they

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Speaker 1: tend to outcompete other fish UH and I've seen estimates

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Speaker 1: that they can some of these species consume about twenty

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Speaker 1: of their own body weight every day, but they don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily prey on other fish. Instead, they're mostly plankton and

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Speaker 1: algae feeders, which still is a big problem because that's

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Speaker 1: the bottom of the food chain, right, that's what everything

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Speaker 1: has to eat in order to work its way up

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Speaker 1: the food chain and get that energy to survive. So

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Speaker 1: they're causing problems for every organism everywhere along the line.

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Speaker 1: So why do they jump, Well, the big head carp

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Speaker 1: in the silver carp can both jump, but it's the

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Speaker 1: silver carp in particular that's just notorious for frequent lee,

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Speaker 1: having these frenzies where they leap out of the water

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Speaker 1: all over the place. And the commonly accepted explanation for

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Speaker 1: why they do it is pretty simple. It's the main

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Speaker 1: one that came to your mind when you were thinking

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Speaker 1: about the mullet. First. It's that they're scared. They're leaping

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Speaker 1: out of the water as an escape mechanism, triggered by

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Speaker 1: a threatening stimulus like the roar of a boat motor.

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Speaker 1: So somebody revs up their engine, they get their their

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Speaker 1: arrows knocked, and the fish here that sound and they

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Speaker 1: start leaping all over the place. And once one starts leaping,

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Speaker 1: all of them start leaping. So that sounds like a

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Speaker 1: pretty funny situation. And I will admit seeing these images

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Speaker 1: of fish just flapping all over the place through the air,

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Speaker 1: slapping people in the back of the head, leaving a big,

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Speaker 1: slimy streak across somebody's like chin and throw because they

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Speaker 1: slap up under there. It sounds funny, but when you

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Speaker 1: think about what it's actually like to be in the

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Speaker 1: middle of it, it can get kind of scary. Because

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Speaker 1: the big head and silver carp were known to jump

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Speaker 1: about three meters or about feet vertically out of the

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Speaker 1: water about six meters or twenty feet horizontally across the surface.

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Speaker 1: Uh silver carp tend to weigh up to about twenty pounds.

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Speaker 1: Big head carp commonly wigh up about twice that, but

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Speaker 1: in rare cases, these fish can reportedly grow very large,

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Speaker 1: up to around a hundred pounds. So think of like

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Speaker 1: a hundred pound object flying at you out of the water,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're moving at a rapid speed. Also, just

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Speaker 1: do the quick new tony in physics in your head.

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Speaker 1: That can be a heavy impact. Now. I found one

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Speaker 1: survey of people who used the Illinois River in two

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Speaker 1: thousand ten and two thousand eleven. And it was a

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Speaker 1: small sample size, so don't read too much into this,

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Speaker 1: but it found this was hilarious to me. Sixty five

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Speaker 1: of residents from these Illinois River sites who used the

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Speaker 1: river had seen Asian carp jump. Okay, but of those

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Speaker 1: people who had seen a carp jump, almost three quarters

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Speaker 1: of them had been hit by a car um And

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Speaker 1: so if you've seen a carp jump, chances are a

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Speaker 1: carp has slim ammed into you. Nine percent of them

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Speaker 1: sustained injuries and reported uh sustained watercraft damage from the

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Speaker 1: Asian carp. And there's just one example I want to

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Speaker 1: give of the kinds of injuries these things can cause.

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Speaker 1: I found a kt v I local news story from St.

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Speaker 1: Louis from last year August, and it tells the story

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Speaker 1: of this guy named Jordan Fiedler who got his face

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Speaker 1: messed up real bad by some Asian carp while inner

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Speaker 1: tubing along a channel in the Mississippi. So, according to

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Speaker 1: the story, his father was driving the boat and he

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Speaker 1: was riding in an inner tube behind it, and then

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Speaker 1: the fish start leap and they jump up all over

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Speaker 1: the place, and one hits him in the face and

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Speaker 1: a quote he gave his quote, I knew something was wrong.

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Speaker 1: I felt my nose and it was way over here.

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Speaker 1: So uh, the impact fractured his nose, It dented his forehead,

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Speaker 1: shattered bones in his eye sockets and above his eyebrow. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and he had to undergo a three and a half

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Speaker 1: hour surgery to install a piece of mesh and cruise

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Speaker 1: to fix the shape of his skull. So this is

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Speaker 1: no small injury. This is This is a devastating fish impact.

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Speaker 1: If nobody has made a Jaws style movie about carp yet,

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Speaker 1: about the leaping carp I think they should. This is

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Speaker 1: the real Sharknado, except it's not a shark. This is Carponado.

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Speaker 1: Well hopefully, I'm really hoping someone will take this whole

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Speaker 1: episode as inspiration and maybe it'll be an overall just

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Speaker 1: jumping fish horror movie. All the various examples we throw

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00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 1: out here, it's the fish version of the birds. Maybe, yeah,

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00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 1: the fishes. Uh, the fish. Weirdly, though as mundane as

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00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 1: Carpon may seem, they actually also have a mythological significance.

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Speaker 1: I bet you didn't think that we'd wrap some some

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Speaker 1: mythology into this episode. But it's I really yeah, I

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00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,959
Speaker 1: didn't even think about it, and normally I'm I'm all

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00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 1: about finding it. I didn't even think to look. Well,

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Speaker 1: apparently the jumping ability of carp has a cultural and

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00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,679
Speaker 1: slight mythological significance in Chinese tradition. So there's a story

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00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 1: in Chinese mythology of carp swimming upstream and that if

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00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 1: a carp swimming upstream is able to jump over a

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00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 1: waterfall that's known as the dragon gate, that carp will

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00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,919
Speaker 1: transform into a dragon, and with that comes all of

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00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 1: the symbolic uplift that applies. Right, you know, the dragon

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00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: is a is a majestic regal creature associated with power

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Speaker 1: and with with grandeur and and with the the the

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Speaker 1: imperial authority basically and flight, yes, and fly there you go.

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Speaker 1: So apparently the expression of quote a carp that jumps

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Speaker 1: over the dragon gate commonly signifies a person who accomplishes

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00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 1: some feet that leads to like a sudden improvement in

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00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,879
Speaker 1: life status, such as passing exams at university or acquiring

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00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 1: some coveted government position. It's like if you get a

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00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,199
Speaker 1: major life upgrade due to some some achievement of yours.

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00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: You're a carp who has jumped the dragon gate and

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Speaker 1: hopefully not smashed anybody's face on the way. Alright, what everyone,

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00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 1: keep that nith in mind, because I feel like we're

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00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 1: going to get back to some of these ideas with

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Speaker 1: some of our later examples. We're gonna take a quick break,

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00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 1: and when we come back, we're gonna look at salmon,

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00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: We're gonna look at swordfish, we're gonna look at sturgeons,

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00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 1: and ultimately the flying fish itself. All right, we're back. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So before the break, we were talking about the mythological

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00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 1: symbology of carp swimming upstream trying to leap over that

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00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: waterfall and turn into a mighty dragon. But of course

410
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 1: carp are not the only fish that struggle mightily to

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00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: progress upstream against the current, even leaping over rapids and waterfalls. Yeah. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: what is one of the most iconic images of leaping fish,

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Speaker 1: like a perfect like nature documentary image. It's the salmon.

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00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: It's the salmon going up stream to spawn, leaping over

415
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: the rapids, and a bear just grabbing that, you know

416
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, indeed, that's the bare version of

417
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: the people trying to hit a carp with a baseball

418
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: bat with nails in it. It's just the bear's claws

419
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 1: wiping in the same amount as it flies over the rapids. Yeah,

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00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: this is uh so, so let's break down exactly what's

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00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: happening here, um, because it's it's pretty amazing. It's easy

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00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: to take it for granted when you've seen it so

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00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: many times. But salmon has been their early lives in

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00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: freshwater rivers, and then they swim out to sea to

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00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: the salt water to feed and grow. But when spawning

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00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: time comes, they engage in what we cause salmon run

427
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: and what grizzly bears of course called like a seafood buffet, right. Uh.

428
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: They so the fish travel upstream to their natal spawning grounds,

429
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: they spawn, and then they die, and then the nutrients

430
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 1: in their bodies washed downstream to the estuaries. So it's

431
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's kind of an elegant um practice here,

432
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 1: but making it upstream is quite a journey, especially when

433
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 1: you're having to deal with rapids and waterfalls. Um, you know,

434
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: no dragon gates, but still some significant challenges there. Uh.

435
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 1: And so they leap out of the water, they jump

436
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: sometimes up to twelve ft or three point six five meters.

437
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: Now not only they have to contend not only the bears,

438
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: but also man. Humans have have shown a tremendous ability,

439
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: of course, to alter natural waterways, to install dams, bridges,

440
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 1: what have you. Oh, yeah, this is actually figured into

441
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: people trying to control the spread of carp like silver carp,

442
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: the jumping carp in American waterways. So you've got these

443
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 1: carp moving slowly upstream, and to prevent them from spreading

444
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: even further, some people have said, well, we need to

445
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 1: construct barriers of some kind, But these have to be

446
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: some pretty tall barriers, right because these things can you know,

447
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 1: jump tin tin feet high and twenty feet long, So

448
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: that would have to be a serious barrier to prevent

449
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 1: the carp from progressing. Yeah, and then what do you

450
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: do about other creatures that have a natural right? Are

451
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: you gonna install like a border guard to keep the

452
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: carp out but make sure the right creatures moved through.

453
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's tough. I saw one solution that

454
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: was literally an electrified fence in the water, where people

455
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: installed little devices that put electrical current in the river

456
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: to prevent the carp from swimming by. Well, you know

457
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: with the with the salmon in the case of dams

458
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: and other structures. Uh, they actually we actually sometimes create

459
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 1: the fish ladders or fish ways to help them out,

460
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 1: and these these can be quite interesting because sometimes they

461
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: essentially look like nothing more than a series of buckets

462
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: they can splash and jump in and out of to

463
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: actually make it over whatever the obstacle is. Yeah, a

464
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 1: watery staircase sorts. But it's a cool idea because because

465
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: as as we pointed out, like, not only is it

466
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 1: important for the for the salmon to actually reach their destination,

467
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: but it actually, you know, their ultimate death up there

468
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: ends up having playing an important role in the overall

469
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 1: ecology of the river. Isn't this also why the salmon

470
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: cannon was invented. Yes, I believe it was to help

471
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: help the salmon get upstream. I don't remember whatever became

472
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, I don't know if that became a

473
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: standard or if that was just kind of a flash

474
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: in the pan Alright, So one thing that comes to

475
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: my mind is that, of course a carp can jump

476
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: out of the water hit you in the face, and

477
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: that can cause some injury. But there are also fish

478
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: much bigger than carp that do jump, that's right, and

479
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: that some of them jump with tremendous speed. Um. I'm thinking,

480
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: of course about the mighty swordfish, which is uh, it's

481
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 1: it's a scientific name is zay FEUs gladius, which basically

482
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: is just the word sword repeated in two different languages.

483
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: So like, basically, we're so excited about swordfish looking like

484
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: a human murder weapon that we just call them sword sword.

485
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: It's like a little kid. Yeah. And of course they're

486
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 1: just uh, it's a it's basically just a a bill.

487
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: They are bill fish. There there are other billfish with

488
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: with bills that resemble swords. Others resemble bills. Sometimes they

489
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: look like saws. Uh. They're a number of different species. Um.

490
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 1: And interestingly, enough evidence seems to support the theory that

491
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: the pointy end is more about speed than anything. So

492
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: it's not a weapon. It's more of an aerodynamic design. Right.

493
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: There's actually a weak point in the skull where the

494
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: sword meets the skull, and it prevents them from being

495
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: a proper javelin, like if they if they were to

496
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: hit something too great a speed, it would just snap.

497
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: And the weak point is due to a lubricating gland

498
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 1: that reduces drag and increases speed. Like it basically pumps

499
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: out oil um it like spreads out through vessels, pumps

500
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: out this this lubricant that lubricates the sword and the

501
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: whole in the thing's whole head that allows it to

502
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: just sort of slip through the water a little bit faster.

503
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 1: So before the swordfish races, they're sitting there looping up

504
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: their swords essentially and there you know, I think there

505
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: are still some arguments that it may to certain degrees

506
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: have you know, have have some sort of defensive capability

507
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: as well, especially if you're talking about a slashing as

508
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,479
Speaker 1: opposed to a full on like um uh, you know,

509
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: ramming speed type of a stabbing maneuver. There might be

510
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: a second area use or yeah, sort of you use

511
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: it in a pinch, yeah, because it's certainly it's certainly

512
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: is a it certainly can be dangerous, as we'll discuss here.

513
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: But the speeds the big thing and and indeed sword

514
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: of fish are generally ranked like the third fastest fish.

515
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: They're only surpassed by the black marlin and the sailfish,

516
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: both of which are are other types of billfish swordfish. Um.

517
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: The estimates vary on all these and people will get

518
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: into fights over exact speeds, but generally you're looking at

519
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: the black marlin. It clocked around possibly eighty miles per

520
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: hour away. Yeah, ye kilometers per hour. Uh, that's like

521
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: twice as fast as your average boat can go. Yeah.

522
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: But but then again, these are these a creatures that

523
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: are living in the open water. They they're dealing with

524
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: with a lot of the vast distances, so they have

525
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: room to build up that speed. Um, sailfish sixty nine

526
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: miles per hour ten and the swordfish comes in at

527
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: a You know, I'm more concerned of sixty miles per

528
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: hour kilometers per hour. But again, people will argue back

529
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: and forth on these stats. No, that's still amazingly fast

530
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: considering the water. I mean, when you think about moving

531
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: through water, all the friction that's that's there, I mean,

532
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: that's crazy. And they've evolved to deal with that friction

533
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: about it just about as well as any sea animal

534
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: is going to manage. Of course, they're also known to

535
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: use that intense speed to hurl themselves completely out of

536
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: the water. Now why one of the one of the

537
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: things about swordfish in particulars that they're rare creatures they're

538
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: elusive creatures and that they don't do well in captivity,

539
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: so it's it's hard to really study them in their ways.

540
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: But they are susceptible, like everything else, to parasites. So

541
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: there is a theory that they may be trying to

542
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: dislodge parasites, uh in particular parasites um in particular that

543
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: the paper I was looking at mentioned remoras, which are

544
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: of course sucker fish that feed on other parents that

545
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: feed on ectoparasites. So essentially these things might be bothering

546
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: them at the very least, they're they're they're screwing with

547
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: their streamlined body right there. They're messing up their speed potentially,

548
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: So perhaps they're jumping out trying to dislodge those remoras,

549
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: or if they have a fisherman's like a sports fisherman's

550
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: hook in them, well that's something they are probably trying

551
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: to dislodge as well. Yeah, and that's certainly the iconic scene,

552
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: right somebody gets a sword fish on the hook and

553
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: it's leaping out of the water. Yeah. Well, I mean

554
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: you can see that at a much lower level. Just

555
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: imagine you've probably seen footage of a bass fisher or

556
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: something like that. With a bass on the line and

557
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: it jumps out of the water. Yeah, okay, Well, I

558
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: know the question on everybody's mind here. Has anybody ever

559
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: been impaled by a swordfish by the sword the sword sword? Yes,

560
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: indeed they have. Um, Now it's it's a rare occurrence,

561
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: just as these human interactions with swordfish are already kind

562
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: of a rare thing. Right, Um, you know, people fish

563
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: for them, but still they're elusive. So this isn't something

564
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: to get really worked up about, right, You're you're probably

565
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: gonna be putting yourself in the position to to have

566
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: the outside chance of this occurring. But as of two

567
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: thousand seven, there were no recorded attacks. And I put

568
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: that in quotes because these are not creatures that eat

569
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: humans or would have seemed seemingly attack humans. Any incidents

570
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: seemed to have been more or less accidental. But as

571
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: of two thousand seven, there were no no recorded attacks

572
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: that it actually resulted in death, though the paper in

573
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: question swordfish attack death by penetrating head injury, did outline

574
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: one such incident. And then in two thousand fifteen, a

575
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: deep sea fishing charter captain in Hawaii was fatally stabbed

576
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: in the chest by one while trying to capture it

577
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: with a spear gun. So basically it thrashed around after

578
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: the spear hit the fish, and then it managed to

579
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: skewer him in the chest and killed him. So it's

580
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: a rare occurrence. But with a with a sword like that,

581
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: with a large fish flopping around, uh, jumping out of

582
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: the water, if you're close to it, yes, you run

583
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: the risk of being run through, right, But even in

584
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: this one incident mentioned here, it sounds like this guy

585
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: was kind of I don't want to say he was

586
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: asking for it. He put him Basically, he just put

587
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: himself in in close proximity to a large sharp fish,

588
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: and there's gonna you're rolling the die when that happens. Right,

589
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: You don't wrestle with a unicorn exactly. But then again,

590
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: of course there are other very large fish that jump

591
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: as well. The In fact, as we saw with the

592
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: carp example, you don't need a spike or a sword

593
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: sword in order to do some damage when you run

594
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: into somebody, right, all you need is a high powered

595
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: recreation vessel and uh and and a hundred pound carp perhaps,

596
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: But what if it was even bigger? What if you

597
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: were talking instead of a hundred pound carp What if

598
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: you were talking about say, Florida's Gulf sturgeon, which if

599
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: you've ever seen a sturgeon in aquarium, these they look

600
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: like an armored tank or something. You know, they're they're

601
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: rather intimidating, and then they get huge. They can come

602
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: in it at the Florida Sturgeon gould. Sturgeon in particular

603
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: can come in at eight ft long two point five

604
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: meters in, up to two hundred pounds or in weight.

605
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: And yes, they sometimes jump out of the water up

606
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: to six feet out of the water and occasionally that

607
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: We're not only talking the risk of injury here. There

608
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: there have been lethal occurrences of sturgeon impacts. Oh man, well,

609
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: I got to hear about that in a second. But

610
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: this is weird to me because maybe I assume sturgeon

611
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: must be able to move fast. Uh, if this is

612
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: the case, but I've never seen a sturgeon move quickly.

613
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: I've seen sturgeon and aquariums and they always seem incredibly

614
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: chilled out and very languid fish just just hanging there,

615
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: I mean, barely moving at all. Yeah, it is I

616
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: have to admit that too. Like seeing them in aquariums

617
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: are always really interesting, kind of intimidating, but very still.

618
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, they jump. In two thousand fifteen, in fact,

619
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: one one of these jumping sturgeons actually killed a five

620
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: year old girl when it leapt out of water into

621
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: her family's fishing boat, and it also injured her mother

622
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: and her brother as well. In two thousand seven, nine

623
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: people were injured in a collision with a sturgeon resultant,

624
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: and this was in Florida, resulting in warning signs that

625
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: were posted to encourage slower motor boat and jet ski speeds. So, yeah,

626
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: you have a two hundred pound fish flying out of

627
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: the water up to six ft out of the water,

628
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: and then you have a motor boat, you know, moving

629
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: at high speeds as well. That's where these possibilities present themselves. Okay,

630
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: but fish this big, why do they jump out of

631
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 1: the water. Well, it's remained a bit of a mystery,

632
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: but we have a few familiar theories as well as

633
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: one that's kind of new here for our discussion here. So,

634
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: first of all, all species of sturgeon will jump at times.

635
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 1: The gold sturgeon is known to jump at two different

636
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: times of the year in the rivers during July and

637
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: August and early in the offshore feeding period. So one

638
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: theory is they do it to escape predators. But that's

639
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: a big it's a big exactly, it's kind of a

640
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: lame theory because the larger sturgeon do not have predators. Um.

641
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: Another theory is that they do it for fun. And

642
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: this is when I see mentioned with dolphins, and maybe

643
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: we'll save that one for another another discussion. Well, I

644
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: don't want to be unfairly prejudiced against the UH. I

645
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: don't know the intellectual capabilities of fish, because, as we

646
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,959
Speaker 1: learned with our birds episode, sometimes you underestimate what other

647
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: animal minds are capable of. But I tend to think

648
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: of play as something that's more associated with more complex

649
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: mammalian nervous systems, which is why it makes sense with

650
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: with dolphins. You know, kind of intelligent mammals. Fish, I

651
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: don't know, are they mentally complex enough to play? Yeah?

652
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: I mean plus, it's also it comes down to economics.

653
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 1: I was reading some thoughts on this from biologist Ken Sulak,

654
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: and he pointed out that the jumping, especially for a

655
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: massive sturgeon, it's an energy expenditure, so there has to

656
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 1: be a trade off and behavioral importance beyond mere fun um.

657
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: He actually theorizes that this is a form of communication

658
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: with sturgeons. So there when they jump out and and

659
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: and splash, it creates a distinct sound, slapping noise, but

660
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: they also um announced that they also create a small

661
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: sound before and after um the jump. It's kind of

662
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: like they produced kind of like clicks and drumming noises,

663
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,720
Speaker 1: So it's kind of a clicker, a drumming noise, the jump,

664
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 1: the splash another sound, and he thinks that they might

665
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: be announcing their presence in position to the larger groups.

666
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: So it's like the mooing of a cow, which which

667
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,479
Speaker 1: I think is an interesting theory. Well, this, this does,

668
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: this communication theory plays into something that I'm going to

669
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: mention later, especially when we talk about sharks. Yes, and

670
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 1: we'll get to sharks in a minute, but before we do,

671
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: we have another potentially dangerous, perhaps even more worrisome for

672
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: half our listeners fish to contend with. So you may

673
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 1: have heard this story. A man is walking in the

674
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: jungles of the Amazon and he realizes that, oh man,

675
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: I had so much coffee this morning. I need to

676
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: evacuate some urine. Okay, So he wades knee deep into

677
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: the waters of the river, and he un zips and

678
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: begins to relieve himself into the water. Question why does

679
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: he wade into the water before he urine? I had

680
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: that same question, but this is how the story goes. Okay,

681
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: So for a few seconds this activity proceeds as normal,

682
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: But then, to his horror, he sees a tiny, barely

683
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: perceptible shape leap from the surface of the water into

684
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: his urethra. Oh okay. In an alternate version of the story,

685
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: it uh supposedly swims up the column of his urine

686
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: stream and into his urethra, and then once inside there

687
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: it spreads this collection of barbed spines like an umbrella

688
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: opening inside your urethra, and just lodges itself there and

689
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: begins to feast on the flesh. And eventually he has

690
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,760
Speaker 1: to he either dies or he has to undergo a really,

691
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 1: really undesirable surgery to get it removed. Well, that's horrible.

692
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: I think we've all heard versions of this before, right you.

693
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: You may remember a version of this from some dialogue

694
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: between Eric Stolts and John Voight in the movie Anaconda. Okay,

695
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: I I vaguely remember that. I tend to remember the

696
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: gross out moments of that film more. But yes, oh,

697
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: I mostly remember John Void's accent. What is his accent

698
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: supposed to be? It's like a cross between South American

699
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: and and Count Dracula. That's great, But but is this

700
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: story really true? Does anything like this happen? Can a

701
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 1: tiny fish jump out of the water and into somebody's

702
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: urethra or swim up your urine stream into your urethra? Uh? Well,

703
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: the fish allegedly described in this story as agreed by

704
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: most authorities to be in fact, the Vandelia sarosa, which

705
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: is a type of parasitic catfish, also known as a

706
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: vampire catfish, but it's commonly known in the sort of

707
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: legendary literature as the candaru. These are the facts about Vandelia.

708
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: So Vandelia's this tiny parasitic catfish, usually about an inch

709
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: or two inches, you know, two and a half to

710
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 1: five centimeters long, nearly invisible in the water, especially when

711
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: it hasn't fed recently. Uh. And it occupies the tropical

712
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: freshwater rivers of South America Amazon River basin. And it

713
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,479
Speaker 1: drinks the blood of other fish, so it's regular emo

714
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: is it. You're you're a goldfish or something like that

715
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: swimming around in the river, and the kandaroo or the

716
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: vandelia scientifically swims into into your gills and anchors itself

717
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: there with spines that line it's gill covers, and then

718
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: it drinks your blood becomes engorged, and then it swims

719
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: away to the bottom to burrow in and digest the

720
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: bottom of the waterway. Right. Uh. And so when it

721
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: enters the gills of the host fish, it bites at

722
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: an order artery, ventrall or dorsal, and it doesn't need

723
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: to suck because actually the host's blood pressure just pumps

724
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 1: blood into the candaroo's mouth. So instead of blood sucking,

725
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: this animal is more like when you hook the lip

726
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 1: of a balloon over a water faucet and then turn

727
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: the water on to make a water balloon, is just

728
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: letting itself fill up. Okay, So the idea here is

729
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: that if it preyed on humans, obviously, swimming into someone's

730
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: p hole is not it's it's design. This would be

731
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: it would be like a like a port tape worm

732
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: getting lost and winding up in your brain. This doesn't

733
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: need that to happen, but it occurs accidentally, right that

734
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: this is a mistake for this animal. If if this

735
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: is true and uh, and it's a it's a fatal

736
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: mistake for the animal and sometimes for the person according

737
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,720
Speaker 1: to the story. So those are the facts that just reported. Now,

738
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: there are also a bunch of claims that are commonly

739
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: reported as fact, and these include that the kangaroo can

740
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: swim up the urethra of a person or mammal that

741
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: might urinate in the water, so that the less unbelievable

742
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: version is that mammals weighed fully into the water and

743
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: begin to urinate once under the water, and the candaroo

744
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: swims up one of their orifices, the urethro or the

745
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: vagina or the anus. Uh. It's commonly reported that this

746
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: fish is attracted to the flow of urine, maybe because

747
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: it's chemically similar to some chemicals that would come out

748
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: of the gills of its host fish. More on that

749
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: in a bit. And then once instide, once inside you,

750
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: it gets stuck, can't escape, dies, obstructs the path of

751
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: the urethra, you can't pee, and it has to get

752
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: removed by surgery. Classical stories of this include lots of

753
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: accounts of penile amputation. So you can see why this

754
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: causes extreme distress for people getting into these waters. Yeah,

755
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 1: and I can also see why a lot of this

756
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: is sort of hinged on just creating a cringe e

757
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 1: hert tail to share with with visitors. Say, oh, the

758
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: officials swim up your pee hole and then we'll have

759
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: to cut your penis off, you know. So it's it's

760
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,919
Speaker 1: easy to see it as nothing more than that. Yeah.

761
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 1: So there are two questions here. Number one is the

762
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: general one to kinderu actually swim up people's urethras? Uh?

763
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: And if so, do they perform this even more crazy

764
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 1: sounding feat of either jumping from the water this jumping

765
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: fish tie in here, which isn't as crazy based on

766
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: what we've been discussing. Lots of fish jumps, so it

767
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 1: seems possible. Now, could it jump with such a degree

768
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: of accuracy that it jumps straight into your urethra that's

769
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: kind of tough to imagine, or the even crazier one

770
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: that it swims up the stream of your urine. I

771
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: got some doubts about that. But are there any medical

772
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 1: cases of this? And in the cases of the medical literature, well,

773
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: there's one major report in the modern day that people

774
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: refer to. So in a euro genital surgeon named n

775
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: Or some odd who was working in Amazonia in Brazil,

776
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: reportedly extracted a dead Kinderu from patient's penis. And according

777
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: to the report of the patient's story, the patient was

778
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: standing thigh deep in the water, urinating into the water

779
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: with his penis above the water, and he reported that

780
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: the fish jumped out of the water, swam up the

781
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: stream of his urine and into his urethra. Now, I I,

782
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: as I alluded to earlier, I'm really suspicious about the

783
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: physics of the swimming up the urine stream. Yeah, it's

784
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: It also makes me wonder if he did have something

785
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: lodged in his in his uh urethra like he own,

786
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: maybe he only became aware of it when he urinated

787
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: and this and he just happened to be standing in

788
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: the water and he just made the assumption that, oh,

789
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 1: that's when it entered. Yeah, so we only have this

790
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: second or I guess third hand report in this case,

791
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: so it's hard to know exactly what happened, But imagine

792
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: the idea, like physically, just try to think of the

793
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: fluid mechanics of swimming up a stream of urine. It

794
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: would be kind of like if you had imagine a

795
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: really good swimmer, like an Olympic swimmer, in a pool,

796
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,240
Speaker 1: and then you stand on the roof of a house

797
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: over the pool and aim a fire hose at them

798
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: and say, okay, swim up the stream of the fire hose.

799
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: To me, uh, that just it doesn't seem to make

800
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: any sense. It would be like swimming up a waterfall,

801
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: where salmon do not swim up a waterfall, but they

802
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: can jump. They can jump over right, So I can

803
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,320
Speaker 1: believe it's much more likely that a fish simply jumped

804
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: out of the water and in this one in a

805
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: million chance kind of way, happened to jump straight into

806
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 1: this guy's unfortunate urethra, which we should say does expand

807
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: during urination. So it kind of opens the possibility there,

808
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: both figuratively and I guess literally. So according to a

809
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: BBC story I read on the candaroo legend um, the

810
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: American marine scientists Steven Spot met with some od the

811
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: surgeon who supposedly removed the candyo from the guy. He

812
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: met with this guy in to investigate, and he was

813
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: shown pictures and video of the extraction. So a real

814
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: surgery definitely took place. Some something was actually removed from

815
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: this guy's urethra. Uh, and there was a preserved specimen

816
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: of the fish itself. But Spot wasn't entirely convinced for

817
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: a few reasons. One was, um, the physical mechanical problem

818
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: I just mentioned in the patient's story. The other was

819
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: the preserved specimen was a lot bigger than you'd expect

820
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: a kinderu to grow, which in one other source I

821
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: read it was more than five inches long and almost

822
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 1: half an inch wide, can you. And also it was

823
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: bigger than the thing we'd expect to find in your urethra.

824
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 1: That also makes the story all the more horrific to envision. Yeah. Uh.

825
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: And then the specimen also, according to Spot, did not

826
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 1: show signs of having been lodged or removed as described.

827
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: For example, it didn't have snipped off spines or anything. Uh.

828
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 1: Then again Spot reported he didn't entirely dismiss the account either.

829
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: At this point, many elements appear unlikely, but it's hard

830
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: hard to know what really happened. Um. But as a

831
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 1: side note, this sort of raises the question of Candio

832
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: entering the urethra and and other body orifice is more

833
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: generally right. So this has been widely reported as fact

834
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: all throughout the literature, both scientific and popular, for a

835
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 1: couple hundred years now, but a few critical writers have

836
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: pointed out these accounts are kind of weird, like that

837
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: they're almost always vague and second hand. It happened to

838
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: somebody that I heard of somewhere up the river. Some

839
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: guy in the next village had a candio swim or

840
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 1: jump into his penis and and get lodged there um

841
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: And also supposedly one of the explanations for this that

842
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: the kanderu are attracted to the chemicals commonly found in

843
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: human urine, such as urea that has been tested and

844
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: found to be completely without merit. So Steven Spot, along

845
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: with the guy mentioned earlier, along with colleagues Paulo Petrie

846
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: and Jensen Zonon, published results of an experiment in two

847
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: thousand one that found that Vandelia, these these parasitic catfishes

848
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: under lab conditions just didn't care about the chemical attractants

849
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: in the water at all. They were not interested in ammonia,

850
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: amino acids, fresh fish slime, or human urine. No response,

851
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: they just didn't care. Instead, they seemed to hunt for

852
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 1: hosts such as Amazon goldfish mostly by sight. They saw them, said,

853
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: those look like some good gills. I'm going to them.

854
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: And uh, and fortunately somebody has actually tried to figure

855
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 1: out if there's anything to all these stories. Uh. There's

856
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: a paper in the Journal of Travel Medicine in by

857
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: erme Guard Bauer called Kandaru a little fish with bad

858
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: habits need travel health professionals worry a review and so

859
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: in this paper the least scandal as possible headline, I know,

860
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: but Bauer essentially concluded that there there's probably nothing to

861
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: these stories. Uh, there's they So there was an extensive

862
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: review of all the available literature, and there's just not

863
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: strong evidence that these fish pose a threat to humans. Instead,

864
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: the record sort of indicates that these attacks are they're

865
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: just always hearsay. The same stories get repeated over and

866
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: over as if they're fact. And Bauer concludes by saying,

867
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: you know, considering the range of this fish, it's all

868
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: over the place, and and how how horrifying their habit

869
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 1: is supposed to be, it seems like wouldn't we be

870
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 1: hearing about this more often in the modern day, wouldn't

871
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: we be encountering stories of this happening. Uh, and and

872
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 1: there's almost nothing. There's just like that that those old

873
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: stories that have been repeated for decades, and then there's

874
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 1: this one disputable case. Yeah. I mean, the only counter

875
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: argument I can think of is that since it's like

876
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: a penile injury, that it would be underreported out of

877
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: shame or embarrassment. But not if you factor in like

878
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 1: the severity of the supposed severity of the infection. You know.

879
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: I feel like this is the kind of thing that

880
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: if there were a confirmed case where somebody went to

881
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: a hospital and this was you know, became part of

882
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: the medical literature, this would be this would be all

883
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: over I f L science and everything, you know what

884
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody would be like, oh my god, I

885
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: gotta fish up his penis. We've got to report the

886
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: heck out of this. Yeah, And we just don't see that.

887
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: Now that being said, there are plenty of other things

888
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: that can harm your privates if you go waiting around

889
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: in you know, Amazonian rivers. And in fact that as

890
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: part of the explanation is that many of these stories

891
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,879
Speaker 1: may be sort of garblings because a lot of them

892
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 1: come from you know, colonial periods in the Amazon and

893
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: stuff like that where there were language barriers between the

894
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: people reporting the stories and then the and then the

895
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 1: people writing them down and publishing them. So, I don't know,

896
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,720
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot of room for legend

897
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: and error. Yeah. Plus, I mean, if anyone out there,

898
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 1: if you've ever had a U t I. Yournary urinary

899
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: track infection, you you know that it can feel like

900
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: a tiny barbed fish has slam in side chiefs. So

901
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: I could see where where such uncomfortable scenarios could lend

902
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 1: them selves to creative interpretations. Okay, so what do we

903
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: think on that Candaru leaping into your urethra? Not impossible,

904
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: but seems unlikely. Let's get into sharks, because I think

905
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: we've all seen these stunning images some photoshopped of great

906
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 1: white sharks leaping over the Golden Gate Bridge and leaping

907
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: out of Yeah, leaping over bridges, or at least managing

908
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 1: to get their entire bodies out of the water in

909
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: a way that just terrifies us because you look and

910
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: you say, well, that's a monster of the water. But

911
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: it is not allowed out of the water, It is

912
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: not allowed up here in the air because that just

913
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: messes with with all of the guidelines that governed my safety. Yeah,

914
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: I thought I was supposed to be safe in this boat. Well,

915
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 1: in keeping with our theme of fish leaping at people

916
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: in their watercraft, did you know that sometimes even great

917
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: white sharks leap into boats entirely into Yeah. So in

918
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 1: this case, as with others, this is not a situation

919
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,439
Speaker 1: of attempted predatory behavior towards the humans on the boat.

920
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: It's not an attack. Uh, it's just very unfortunate coincidence.

921
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: One example of this kind of story July two thousand eleven,

922
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 1: I found a National Geographic news story covering one of

923
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: these events. So in July two thousand eleven, there's a

924
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: research vessel off Seal Island, off the coast of South Africa.

925
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 1: And if you've seen videos of great white sharks jumping

926
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 1: into the air out of the water, very likely that

927
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: video came from around Seal Island in South Africa. This

928
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 1: is one of the most famous places in the world

929
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 1: to see this behavior among white sharks. So there's a

930
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: research vessel in the waters out near this place, and

931
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: a roughly five kilogram or half ton great white shark

932
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: jumps into the boat operated by these marine researchers, and

933
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 1: it's in the boat. It's stuck on the deck beneath

934
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: the walls in the boat, so thrashing around. Everybody had

935
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: to get the heck away from it and try to

936
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: figure out how to help it get back into the

937
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: water so it wouldn't die. Robert, for your benefit, I

938
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: have a picture here. It's just a shark in the boat.

939
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: That is a big shark. This is not if you're

940
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,919
Speaker 1: if you're picturing like just a juvenile, small little aquarium shark.

941
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 1: Huge shark. Uh. So, of course they couldn't get the

942
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: shark out of the boat by hand. Uh. And so

943
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 1: they attempted to drag it out with a rope and

944
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: that failed, and then they so eventually they had to

945
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,839
Speaker 1: drive the boat back to the harbor, and they tried

946
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: to lift it out of the boat with a crane,

947
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: which was dangerous to do, but the shark was going

948
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: to die, so they had to try it. Uh. And

949
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: they so they lowered it back into the water. But

950
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: shark may be confused or injured from this, stranded itself

951
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 1: on a harbor beach nearby. They attempted to push it

952
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: back into the water by hand, and that failed, So

953
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: eventually they tied the animal to the side of a

954
00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: boat and drove it out to sea, and half an

955
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 1: hour after that, the sharks swam away. It swam away

956
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,760
Speaker 1: and seemed to recover. It slapped its tail. So nobody

957
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: knows what happened after that, if it eventually went on

958
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: to live and be okay, or if it was injured

959
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: and if it died. They're just not sure. But I

960
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: hope that sharks out there right now, uh, longing for

961
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 1: seal flesh, trying to eat live right. So, So, when

962
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: a shark leaps out of the water, this is known

963
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: as breaching. And to use specific terminology that I love

964
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,280
Speaker 1: from one study that I read, when a shark leaps

965
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,359
Speaker 1: vertically or near vertically out of the water, so it's

966
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: coming up from below vertically into the air with a

967
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: head up position, this is known as a polarist breach. Oh,

968
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 1: I love that. That's so good. That's a good band name.

969
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 1: Uh So why do shark's breach? Why why do they

970
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: come up out of the water like? Well, based on

971
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,760
Speaker 1: a lot of my research that concerns uh like nineteen

972
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: eighties Italian shark films that came out in the wake

973
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: of jaws. They do it to make a boat explode, right, Yeah,

974
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: to smash about, And no, that is not why they

975
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 1: do it. They they're There are two main kinds of breaching.

976
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: There may be other minor behavior, but the two main

977
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: kinds that you'll read about most often are predatory breaching

978
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: and what's known as natural breaching. So predatory breaching, it's

979
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: all there in the name. The shark is in the

980
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: pursuit of prey. There's a seal, you know, pinnaped there

981
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 1: that's a nice, fatty, delicious, energy rich meal swimming along

982
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 1: near the surface of the water. And in these breaches,

983
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 1: the shark moves rapidly up from below, bites as it

984
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: shoots up into the air, and then slams back down

985
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,720
Speaker 1: into the water. And a lot of cases there it'll

986
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: shoot up from below, hit the seal, bite it, and

987
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 1: then release it, and then wait for the seal to

988
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: bleed out and die and come back and finish it.

989
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: This is Yeah. I was reading a paper about this

990
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: the other day in preparation for this episode, and I

991
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: found that interesting because I really had not research actual

992
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: shark predatory behavior much and the idea that they wound

993
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: and then allow the the prey to bleed and then

994
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: come back for it is interesting because because you know,

995
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: nobody wants to get slapped by a seal, including a

996
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 1: great white shark. You know, the shark is has to

997
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 1: be cautious, like a prey can injure it if it's

998
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: fighting around with it while the prey is still strong,

999
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: so it wants to avoid that. In fact, one of

1000
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,879
Speaker 1: the papers I read about this by an author named

1001
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: r Aiden Martin who has written on great white breaching

1002
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: a good bit. They actually put together a shark hunting

1003
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 1: decision tree, so it has it's like a flow chart

1004
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: where you know what, depending on what happens, do you

1005
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 1: move to this next thing or this next thing? Uh?

1006
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: And so it includes like the initial attack and then

1007
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: do you catch or do you wait and pursue? Do

1008
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: you quote process? I love that at some point the

1009
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: shark begins to process the seal um and we don't

1010
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 1: mean thinking about the seal here either. No, this is

1011
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: sort of working on it right right, butchering with its

1012
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 1: mouth with basically, So, so why does it do this? What?

1013
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 1: Why is the great white shark attacking the seal in

1014
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: this way? Why didn't it just swim up from behind

1015
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 1: and bite it. Uh. Well, think think about how this

1016
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 1: plays out in practice, like what the conditions are for

1017
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 1: the predator and for the prey looking up from the

1018
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: deep water below. The shark has more ability to see

1019
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: a seal near the surface than the seal does to

1020
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 1: see a shark. So the seal is illuminated by the sky,

1021
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 1: and these attacks take place more often in low light conditions,

1022
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: when there's less penetration of water of the water column

1023
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: by the light in the sky, like if the sun's

1024
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 1: at an angle. So you're a shark, you know several

1025
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 1: you know, meters down below the water, and you're looking up.

1026
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 1: You can see your prey, but it's less likely to

1027
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: see you, especially because of your your dorsal coloring, the

1028
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: dark coloring on the top of you. And so why

1029
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: is this element of surprise so crucial? Well, when you

1030
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 1: look at the body composition of a white shark versus

1031
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: a seal um according to one study I read between

1032
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:08,280
Speaker 1: ninety four and of a white sharks, muscle is composed

1033
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 1: of what's known as white muscle, and this is this

1034
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 1: is sprinting muscle. It's capable of rapid contraction, but it

1035
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: has very low stamina and a pin up head like

1036
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: a seal, on the other hand, can go the distance

1037
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: it's capable of sustaining long term evasive tactics. So the

1038
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: longer the attack goes on, the better that the less

1039
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: chance a shark has of catching the seal and getting

1040
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 1: it um. So the sharks are better at sprinting the

1041
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 1: marathon seals can can keep evading, so a sudden surprise

1042
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: attack greatly increases the shark's chance of success. And this

1043
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: is why this rocketing up from below which leads to

1044
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: breaching UH is so common. Well, that makes perfect sense

1045
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: from the from a hunting standpoint, and according to a

1046
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 1: paper on the on the physics of this process, so

1047
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,439
Speaker 1: the shark usually starts UH down deep in the water,

1048
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: a place where the bottom depth is between twenty six

1049
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: and thirty meters and UH in these cases, the entire

1050
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: attack you know, leaping up from the bottom after they

1051
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 1: begin their strikes to u to the seal is about

1052
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: two to two and a half seconds, so it just

1053
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: doesn't give the seal much time at all to react.

1054
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: And then, of course, at the speed it takes to

1055
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: hit the seal from below that fast, the sharks still

1056
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: propelled upwards and it's going out of the water. Um.

1057
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 1: And in these cases, the shark attacks are successful about

1058
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 1: forty percent of the time, which is not a bad

1059
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: hunting success. Right. But then there's this other kind of

1060
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: breaching image. That's what that's the predatory breaching, jumping out

1061
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: of the water to kill. There's also what's known as

1062
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: natural breaching, when the shark breaches for no obvious reason,

1063
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 1: there's no predatory attack or anything, um, no bait on

1064
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 1: the surface that it's being coaxed to the surface with. Right,

1065
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 1: So why what what's going on here? Well, according to

1066
00:58:55,920 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 1: one theory, sharks have these well developed McCay no receptors

1067
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 1: and chemo receptors and electro receptors. They have all you know,

1068
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: receptive sensing organs that we don't have at that kind

1069
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: of level. So it's been hypothesized that tail slap, so

1070
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: that's one type of slapping behavior, and then breaching jumping

1071
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: out of the water and splashing down are communicative. They

1072
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: they're allowing sharks to communicate between one another through agonistic behaviors.

1073
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: That's not you know, fighting displays. I'm tough, this is

1074
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 1: my food. You better get away because I could fight

1075
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: you for it. And it's true that lots of fishes

1076
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: do use sound as a communication channel, and so it's

1077
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: hypothesized that these behaviors like tail slapping and breaching jumping

1078
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 1: out of the water and splashing down could exploit this

1079
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: kind of mechano reception. This this sound sensitive ability of

1080
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: fish to communicate between the sharks. And when you think

1081
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 1: about it, a shark jumping out of the water and

1082
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 1: splashing down is not necessarily a bad signifier of fitness.

1083
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: That's like, the bigger you are and the stronger you are,

1084
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: the harder of a splashdown you can make. Yeah, it's certainly,

1085
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it makes a statement to us and we're

1086
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 1: not even sharks. Yeah. And one reason to think this

1087
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: is a good explanation is that this natural breaching often

1088
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: seems to happen with sharks in the presence of other sharks,

1089
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: not just hanging out by themselves. Now, this is interesting.

1090
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 1: We're talking about this breaching behavior that's taking place, uh

1091
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 1: specifically the predatory breaching behavior. It's taking place in the

1092
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 1: presence of these seals. You brought up an interesting um

1093
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: tidbit yesterday about the recent shark move movie The Shallows

1094
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 1: in which the shark tries to eat like lively about

1095
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 1: about what what does it mean when we see a

1096
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: movie shark breaching like this in seemingly tropical waters. Oh? Yeah, yeah,

1097
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 1: this was interesting. I believe I read this. Now, this

1098
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: isn't in my notes. I'm just trying to recall from memory.

1099
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 1: But I recalled that I read this, I think, on

1100
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 1: Smithsonian where they were reviewing the trailer of the film.

1101
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: But they spoke to a marine biologist who had some

1102
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 1: knowledge of shark behaviors and said, Okay, look at how

1103
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 1: the shark's acting in the trailer for this movie. Is

1104
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 1: this basically accurate? Uh? And I recall what the the

1105
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 1: expert said was, well, it looks like this movie is

1106
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: supposed to take place in tropical waters, and yet you

1107
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: see the shark when it attacks this guy leaps out

1108
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: of the water. That's breaching behavior, which is not necessarily

1109
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: something you'd be likely to see in tropical waters, because

1110
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 1: the places you really see it are are like in

1111
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 1: South Africa, where they have these, uh, these prey like

1112
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 1: seals that they have to attack in this manner in

1113
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: order to maximize their success rate at catching them. In

1114
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: tropical waters, sharks probably have access to fish that are

1115
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 1: much more slow moving and easier to catch, and they

1116
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 1: just they don't have to resort to these breaching behaviors

1117
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: in order to catch meals, so that they The expert

1118
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 1: they talked to rated that as not quite. It's so plausible.

1119
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 1: But from a cinematic standpoint, nothing is more terrifying than

1120
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 1: the shark coming out of its habitat into our habitat

1121
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: in order to especially to eat us. It's the inherent

1122
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 1: perversity of the land shark. It is all right, Well,

1123
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 1: at this point we really have only one sort of

1124
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 1: leaping jumping fish to consider, and that is, of course

1125
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:27,680
Speaker 1: the so called flying fish, right, because the distinction between

1126
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: jumping and flying may seem very clear to you, right,

1127
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 1: you know, uh, kangaroos jump and birds fly and and

1128
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 1: these are not all that similar behaviors, but the dividing

1129
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: line between them, I don't know, is it really just time? Well, yeah,

1130
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 1: you can certainly bog yourself down in in um definitions

1131
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: of flight, to be clear. With with the flying fish,

1132
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 1: we are talking about a gliding but sometimes kind of

1133
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: a hydroplaning, where they're just where the tail is still

1134
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 1: in contact with the water. UM so it's not powered flight,

1135
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 1: it's not true flight, so we're not talking about piranha

1136
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 1: to the spawning here right right, and then there are

1137
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 1: certainly no feathers involved. But um, it's interesting to put

1138
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: this in, you know, to sort of top off this

1139
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: discussion of all these leaping and jumping behaviors, because gliding

1140
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: fish might seem like the the evolutionary pinnacle of jumping fish, right.

1141
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: But but the interesting thing here is that there's nothing

1142
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: new at all. In two thousand twelve, paleontologists found a

1143
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 1: near complete skeleton from the Tree Driassic period that's two

1144
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 1: to two forty two million years ago, UM, and near

1145
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: complete skeleton boasted all the key attributes of the modern

1146
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 1: flying fish, well developed pectorial fin and a forked, asymmetrical tail.

1147
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 1: And even this form seemed to have evolved independently from

1148
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 1: the sixty four known species of flying fish we find

1149
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 1: today in all the world's ocean independence. So it's not

1150
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 1: like an ancestor of them, like a cousin of them

1151
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 1: that's now not here, right. It developed this gliding technique

1152
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 1: on its own. Um. So it's interesting to to realize

1153
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 1: that that gliding fish have evolved in the past separately,

1154
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 1: they've died, had died out and uh, and we have

1155
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: a fairly successful model of it today in the in

1156
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: these sixty four known species of flying fish and um

1157
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 1: and again, they don't necessarily fly as much as they glide,

1158
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 1: but they can, they can really glide. So then what

1159
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 1: what would the difference be between a fish that glides

1160
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 1: and a fish that actually quote flies. Well, again, this

1161
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: is an area where where individuals can get into discussions

1162
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 1: and disagreements over what defines flight. But essentially it's a

1163
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 1: difference between powered flight and gliding. All right, So is

1164
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: it is the creature flapping its wings in order to

1165
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 1: sustain itself in the air or is it merely sort

1166
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:00,080
Speaker 1: of falling with grace? Right? Uh, hang glider versus an

1167
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 1: airplane exactly, because we see plenty of gliding creatures and

1168
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 1: it generally means in order to glide, you need to

1169
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 1: either fall from something high such as a tree, which

1170
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 1: is why we see so many um you know, tree

1171
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 1: based gliders of boreal gliders, or it needs to be

1172
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 1: able to jump up high enough to glide a little bit.

1173
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 1: And that's what we see with gliding or flying fish

1174
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 1: um and they can, they can really glide. They can

1175
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 1: glide and or hydroplane distances of hundred feet or four

1176
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 1: hundred meters in thirty seconds, with maximum flight speeds of

1177
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 1: up to forty five miles per hour or seventy two

1178
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 1: kilometers per hour, which is pretty impressive. I feel like

1179
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:42,240
Speaker 1: we've all seen like splendid videos of this taking place.

1180
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 1: It's it's pretty impressive. So, since these fish are small,

1181
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:49,440
Speaker 1: I imagine they're not breaching to uh to inflict predatory

1182
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: damage on a seal or something like no, no, no,

1183
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 1: these are These are generally plankton eaters, and pretty much

1184
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 1: everybody agrees that they jump and glide to escape. There

1185
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 1: are many many enemies in the sea. Yea, yet another

1186
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 1: evasive maneuver right now. There have been some that are

1187
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 1: proposed that this has to do with energy conservation, like

1188
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 1: the running or porpoising that is observed in marine mammals

1189
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: such as penguins or dolphins, but it really doesn't pan

1190
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,440
Speaker 1: out when you crunch all the factors, including the oxygen

1191
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 1: debt of takeoff, and biologist John Davenport did just this

1192
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 1: sort of crunching in his paper How and Why Do

1193
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 1: Flying Fish Fly? Which is a certainly a good in

1194
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:34,120
Speaker 1: depth reread if you really want to get into the

1195
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 1: the economics and physics of this. Another theory sees all

1196
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: of this is a means to move from a food

1197
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 1: or plankton poor area to a food rich area, thus

1198
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: making the energy expenditure worth it. Essentially kind of like

1199
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: rate and teleporting during a fight to get behind an opponent.

1200
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 1: You're not in a good position for your food, teleport

1201
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 1: to the the to the positive position via flight. But

1202
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of it's to back that up.

1203
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 1: So why why would the flying or gliding in that

1204
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:07,360
Speaker 1: case be better than just swimming to the food rich area.

1205
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 1: I just have to go back to the raid and

1206
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 1: analogy there. It's just the the it's in the realm

1207
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 1: of water. It is more like an instant appearance as

1208
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 1: opposed to a journey too. But again, so you can

1209
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 1: pretty much don't worry too much about that theory because

1210
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 1: pretty much everybody is still in agreeans this is about

1211
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 1: escaping predators. Now, in escaping those predators, flying fish that

1212
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 1: were gliding fish, they don't flap their wings to gain

1213
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:37,440
Speaker 1: lift um. They propel through the air water interface. I

1214
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 1: like that terminology at a shallow angle unfurl their large

1215
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 1: lateral fins and then rapidly beat their tail in the

1216
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 1: water prior to actual lift off. And it's interesting too

1217
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:50,400
Speaker 1: that they have to be a certain size before they

1218
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,360
Speaker 1: can actually pull this off. The smaller flying fish, before

1219
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 1: they have attained appropriate size, they can't actually pull this off.

1220
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: They're limited to simple leaps with their fins held against

1221
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 1: the body by surface tension. Huh yeah, okay, Well, so

1222
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 1: flying fish, you might say, in this case is kind

1223
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:13,480
Speaker 1: of a misnomer. Then yes, it's they're they're gliding fish

1224
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:17,240
Speaker 1: that we have jumping fish, we have longer jumping fish,

1225
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: we have gliding fish. But I wonder why no fish

1226
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 1: with the ability to maintain sustained flight, Because if you

1227
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:30,560
Speaker 1: imagine the the evolution of flight in its many forms, Uh,

1228
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:36,519
Speaker 1: it's commonly hypothesized that flight organs began with gliding organs.

1229
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:41,520
Speaker 1: You know, organisms had had maybe movements or or gliding

1230
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,559
Speaker 1: organs that would help them coast from one tree to

1231
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,759
Speaker 1: another or help them escape a predator faster. And overtime,

1232
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: these organs developed until they were able to create powered

1233
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: sustained flight like birds. So why haven't fish gone there?

1234
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:57,719
Speaker 1: Why are there no fish? Birds? I know you can't

1235
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 1: help but think about this, especially when you look at

1236
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 1: you jumping and then gliding, Why not flying? Why why

1237
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:07,120
Speaker 1: have they not taken that next step? And then indeed

1238
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 1: is that step even possible? Right? Because as as you

1239
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 1: pointed out, so many of these examples of flight that

1240
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 1: we have UM and certainly there are not that many.

1241
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 1: You can ultimately kind of look as at flight as

1242
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 1: a is a rare adaptation, even though it has been

1243
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: tremendously successful for the organisms that have achieved it. Because

1244
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 1: as vertebrates go, we've we've only seen three takes on flight.

1245
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:33,599
Speaker 1: We've seen UH pedero sarin flight, We've seen avian flight,

1246
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 1: and we've seen you know, bat flight and UH and fish.

1247
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: So far as we know, unless there's some sort of

1248
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 1: fossil out there that we've got to uncover, they've never

1249
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 1: crossed the threshold UH and UH and and and all.

1250
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 1: When you take an all biology, you have a single

1251
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:53,040
Speaker 1: extinct lineage and three extant clades birds, bats and the

1252
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 1: and and UH and also insects. But even in these

1253
01:09:56,080 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 1: three extant examples of of vertebrate flight, they are examples

1254
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 1: of convergent evolution, not that like the pterosaurs the birds

1255
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:08,240
Speaker 1: and the bats didn't evolve from each other. They all

1256
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 1: independently achieved the mechanisms of flight. That's right, they exploit

1257
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 1: the same physical properties, but they're all different solutions to

1258
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 1: the same problem. I was looking at this book by

1259
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: David Alexander and Stephen Vogel titled Nature's Flyers, Birds, Insects,

1260
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:25,639
Speaker 1: and the Biomechanics of Flight, and they put it into

1261
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 1: context like this quote. Although such convergent features may make

1262
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:33,880
Speaker 1: two animals appear quite similar, the adaptations are only superficially

1263
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:37,839
Speaker 1: similar and have fundamental differences. Fish or cold blooded, scaly

1264
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 1: animals with gills, but proporpoises are warm blooded, smooth skinned

1265
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 1: breathers of air. The point being that these are both

1266
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:46,760
Speaker 1: not flight based. But these are both sea creatures with

1267
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:49,360
Speaker 1: similar forms at first glance, but there of course very

1268
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:54,840
Speaker 1: different organisms. It continues, hummingbirds and bumblebees have almost identical

1269
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:58,000
Speaker 1: wing beat patterns, but hummingbird wings are made of bone, muscle,

1270
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:01,720
Speaker 1: and feathers. Bee wings or may of of pleaated membranes

1271
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:05,120
Speaker 1: supported by stiff, hollow veins. And they point out to

1272
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 1: that technological evolution has produced several areas of convergence between

1273
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 1: flying animals and flying machines. Quote, the convergences were not

1274
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:17,000
Speaker 1: intentional copies of mechanisms used by animals, but technological solutions

1275
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 1: to common challenges faced by all flyers. So this would

1276
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:23,799
Speaker 1: seem to indicate that there's no inherent reason you couldn't

1277
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: expect fish to evolve mechanisms like a bird's wings or

1278
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:33,520
Speaker 1: like an insect's swings. Uh, they would just be you know, fishire. Basically,

1279
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 1: they would be evolved from the equipment available to fish anatomy. Well,

1280
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 1: the one place that my mind immediately meant went was

1281
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 1: all right, so almost it seems like all these other

1282
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 1: examples are our land creatures that that take to gliding.

1283
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 1: So maybe dwelling on the land is an essential prerequisite

1284
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:57,120
Speaker 1: too to the sort of gliding that evolves into flight. Yeah,

1285
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:59,680
Speaker 1: that could certainly like do you need or runway in

1286
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:04,160
Speaker 1: order to evolve flight? A solid runway or or a

1287
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 1: high place to jump off of it? Can you just

1288
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:12,280
Speaker 1: not really ever evolutionarily justify the the evolution of propelled

1289
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:16,599
Speaker 1: flight mechanisms if you always have to start from underwater, right,

1290
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 1: And and maybe that does hold true of vertebrates. But

1291
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:23,680
Speaker 1: then according to biologists Jim Martin. The possible exception is

1292
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:27,719
Speaker 1: with insects. Flapping gills could have evolved into flight capable

1293
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:31,639
Speaker 1: wings as an aquatic in an aquatic environment, according to Martin,

1294
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 1: so insects may have an out there. But maybe this

1295
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:40,559
Speaker 1: prerequisite holds true with vertebrates. But the thing is, when

1296
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 1: you start asking this question, you also have to take

1297
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:46,680
Speaker 1: it outside of fish too, because we could also say

1298
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 1: asked the same thing about other gliding organisms, gliding snakes, lizards,

1299
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:56,639
Speaker 1: the gliding squid, various gliding arboreal mammals, including lemurs. Why

1300
01:12:56,640 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 1: are there no flying lemurs? Because certain they're they're in

1301
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 1: the position where they're they're leaping out of trees, they're

1302
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:06,320
Speaker 1: gliding a little white Does that not developed into flight?

1303
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 1: I guess the simplest explanation to me would would just

1304
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 1: be a guess, but it would be that there's just

1305
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:15,519
Speaker 1: not enough incentive for it, Like maybe there's just no

1306
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 1: clear advantage survival or reproduction advantage to fish remaining in

1307
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:22,720
Speaker 1: the air for longer than it takes to glide a

1308
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,600
Speaker 1: short distance. Because you know, when you think about it,

1309
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:28,639
Speaker 1: what really happens in the air. I mean, birds use

1310
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 1: the air to traverse between different locations of feeding and

1311
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 1: breeding and stuff like that. I suppose fish could do

1312
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:37,720
Speaker 1: the same thing, but I don't know would they be

1313
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 1: more would they be more open to bird predation if

1314
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,840
Speaker 1: they were to fly around in the air all the time? Would?

1315
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it could just be that there's not enough

1316
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:53,840
Speaker 1: reason for them to have this trade. Yeah, because yeah,

1317
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:55,760
Speaker 1: because when you do one thing to say, all right,

1318
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:57,639
Speaker 1: why why don't the flying fish just become a true

1319
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:00,679
Speaker 1: flying organism? But you also have to provide the reason

1320
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 1: for it, like how is that going to work? Is it?

1321
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 1: Is it really a benefit that's going to play out

1322
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:11,160
Speaker 1: an evolution? And uh, so far the answer seems to

1323
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 1: be no. Now, I do have to mention that this

1324
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 1: this larger question of why I do some lineages evolve

1325
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:21,360
Speaker 1: into the sky and there's not? It remains something of

1326
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:24,640
Speaker 1: a mystery, and scientists have even looked to underlying molecular

1327
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:27,880
Speaker 1: mechanisms in this whole there's a whole study of biological

1328
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 1: uh periodicity that gets into this. It gets a really

1329
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:34,840
Speaker 1: really deep and complex but and and uh and has

1330
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of parallels in in molecular concerns,

1331
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 1: So it's uh so, so it ends up being a

1332
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 1: deeper question than just why don't fish actually fly? But

1333
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 1: why does do any numbers? Yeah, one more thing I

1334
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:56,000
Speaker 1: probably should say. It's may have been too obvious for

1335
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:58,200
Speaker 1: us to mention, but of course there is the impediment

1336
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 1: of breathing. Oh yes, a show gills. But but certainly

1337
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 1: we have land again right to the the mud skippers

1338
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 1: and the walking catfish, this and earlier forms of lungfish.

1339
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:12,360
Speaker 1: So that alone doesn't seem like it would be a um,

1340
01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:15,599
Speaker 1: you know, an eliminating factor, but it would certainly still

1341
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 1: be a concern because they are venturing outside of their realm. Yeah,

1342
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 1: all right, So there you have it. Um. Now, we

1343
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 1: only covered some of the jumping fish out there in

1344
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:31,080
Speaker 1: the world, so we may have missed some examples that

1345
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:33,599
Speaker 1: you're particularly fond of, or some just examples you've seen

1346
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,920
Speaker 1: in real life and have some stories related to. Yeah,

1347
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 1: and one thing I do think we should make clear

1348
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,120
Speaker 1: is that Robert, you and I were not trying to

1349
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:42,719
Speaker 1: be alarmists about fish jumping. We have we have covered

1350
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 1: several stories of fish jumping into boats, fish jumping into people,

1351
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:49,760
Speaker 1: and injuries that have been sustained on those accounts. But

1352
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:53,680
Speaker 1: I think these events are exceedingly rare overall, so you

1353
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 1: really don't need to be like super worried about getting

1354
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:59,799
Speaker 1: killed by jumping fish. Right, But certainly if there's a science,

1355
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,720
Speaker 1: ain't telling you not to to drive too fast on

1356
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:06,360
Speaker 1: the water because they are leaping sturgeon, I would acknowledge

1357
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:09,559
Speaker 1: that sign and remember that, yes, individuals have been injured

1358
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 1: or killed, so be cautious on or the sturgeon are

1359
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 1: under the sturgeon indeed. All right, So, hey, if you

1360
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:20,080
Speaker 1: want to check out more episodes of Stuff to Blow

1361
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:21,720
Speaker 1: your Mind, head on over to stuff to Blow your

1362
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:23,599
Speaker 1: Mind dot com. That's the mothership. That's what we will

1363
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 1: find all of our podcast episodes, as well as links

1364
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 1: out to various social media accounts such as you know, Twitter, Tumbler, Facebook,

1365
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 1: and hey, if you follow us on Facebook, make sure

1366
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:37,320
Speaker 1: you you click it so that we show up in

1367
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:40,720
Speaker 1: your feed immediately. How do they do that? There's an

1368
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:42,679
Speaker 1: option there at the top, like a star or something.

1369
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:44,799
Speaker 1: I don't have it in front of me, but it's doable.

1370
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:46,920
Speaker 1: It's very doable, and you should do it because you

1371
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:50,120
Speaker 1: never know how Facebook's going to tweak that algorithm and

1372
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: make it to wear the things that you love such

1373
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:54,679
Speaker 1: as us no longer show up. Oh yeah, we would

1374
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 1: love it if the majority of commenters on our Facebook

1375
01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:00,080
Speaker 1: posts were actual podcast listeners. That would be all. So

1376
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:03,640
Speaker 1: we do have a few few randoms that wander in

1377
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:06,720
Speaker 1: yeah uh and hey, if you want to get in

1378
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 1: touch with us the old fashioned way, how can they

1379
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:12,080
Speaker 1: do it? How can they fling that mackerel into our boat? Well,

1380
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:15,360
Speaker 1: you can always email us at blow the Mind at

1381
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:27,040
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com for more on this and

1382
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com.

1383
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:35,000
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