1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Smith. I'm welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: I've never told you protection of I hire radio and 3 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: recently for reasons that we will explain at a later date. 4 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: That sounds so mysterious, it really isn't. But things are 5 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: going on, but things are happening, and just spent to 6 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: the world. Uh. I had to go through all of 7 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: our episode catalog recently and I had to kind of 8 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 1: flag like, oh, this is probably outdated. Uh. And they 9 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: were a bunch from the pandemic that I was like 10 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: early pandemic days. But I thought, you know, this could 11 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: be funny to listen to maybe or maybe very depressing, 12 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: or maybe a mixture of both before we really knew 13 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: what was going to happen, you know, like when we 14 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: were trying to predict things. Uh, and early on in 15 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: the pandemic, I would say we kind of settled in 16 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: at this point, but we still weren't sure how long 17 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: it was going to go. We did one on working 18 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: from home during the pandemic, and I wanted to bring 19 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: this one back because of a couple of reasons. UM, 20 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of articles lately around updating on 21 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: women's experience working from home, and we actually have a 22 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: whole Monday many I think that's going to come out 23 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: about this, but a lot of women have reported, especially 24 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 1: women in relationships HEATERO, relationships with children, that they're being 25 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: treated as if you can work whenever, So I want 26 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: to go get drinks and you're going to take the kids, 27 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: and you can work while you're doing that, right, Like 28 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: the kind of this idea, which was the fear we 29 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: had when we were talking about like the pros and 30 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: cons of working from home, is that that that might 31 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: happen um. And then also, and I know this sounds 32 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: like it's unrelated, but I swear it's not. Recently, both 33 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: Smith and I have watched the movie barbarian Um, and 34 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: one of the things that really struck me about that 35 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: movie is when she's the main character, is talking to 36 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: the Scars guard guy who may or may not be 37 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: the villain Um, and she says to him like, if 38 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: if I had gotten here first at this airbnb, I 39 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: would never have let you in. Never, And he kind 40 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: of lets her in and she she's like, no, no, no, 41 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: I would never would have done that. And I was 42 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: thinking about that recently because I've had a couple of 43 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 1: experiences like that word. It just becomes clear the gender 44 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: divide around safety in in that regard um where men, 45 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: some men in my life have just clearly not thought 46 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: about it. And I just think there's an interesting conversation 47 00:02:54,880 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: we can have about where these where we're missing the 48 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: conversation we should be having, or we're not like listening 49 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: to women when we're they're saying, like, no, I can't 50 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 1: just work whenever and take the kids whenever, Like it's 51 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: not just a thing that I can do super easily. 52 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: And also you can't just because I'm working from home 53 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: doesn't mean you can just show up whenever. I like. 54 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: So that episode is coming, but in the meantime, please 55 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: enjoy this classic episode which might be a little dated, 56 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: but I think still we're listening to, Hey, this is 57 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,839 Speaker 1: Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff I've never told 58 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: you a production of I Heart Radio. So, Samantha, what's 59 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: your favorite thing about working remotely? Um? Not having to 60 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: wear our bra mhmm, some faces. See, there's so many, honestly, 61 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: so many things. Being able to wait to the last 62 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: minute to make your face known instead of coming in 63 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: and talking to everybody, you know what I mean, And 64 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: like having the conversation of like seeing people passing by, 65 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: people having the moment of you know, all these things, 66 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: so you have to get ready and all this FaceTime 67 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 1: with people essentially have face to FaceTime and then start working. 68 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: As when we're doing it remotely, I'm like barely sitting 69 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: at the computer, like all r, let let's get started. 70 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: I love that. It sounds like water cooler talk is 71 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: your nightmare. Well, to me, this is like the introverted dream, 72 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: Like this is an introverse dream, especially because these are 73 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: people you work with and not necessarily choose to hang with. 74 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: Not that our people aren't a cool A lot of 75 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: people aren't. To put that out there, people are super cool. 76 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: I will, but it's still hard when you're in like 77 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: that work environment, work mentality. So kind of not having 78 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: to worry about that has been really nice. What about you, 79 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: I definitely am with you on the clothes thing. I 80 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: barely put on like real clothes anymore. Uh. And I 81 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: think the second thing is um working on my own 82 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: kind of weird schedule and not feeling bad about that, 83 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: and then also having usually a horror movie on in 84 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: the background, uh, and not feeling bad that like someone's 85 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: going to look over my shoulder and be like, hey, 86 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: you're not working, you're watching bad horror movies. I am. 87 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: I'm doing both. I'm a multitasker. I like to have 88 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: noise in the background as well, so if it's a 89 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: show that I'm rerunning, or if it's like loud music 90 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: or something, it's really nice to have that too and 91 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 1: not worrying about people judging my taste. Yes, and I 92 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: will say we come from a very like flexible Even 93 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: before this, when you had to go into the office, 94 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: it was a very flexible schedule and a lot of 95 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: people did watch stuff on the computer while they were working. 96 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: It's a very low key office. But my my anxiety 97 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: was that people were judging me for what I was watching, 98 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: so I didn't do it right. Yeah, you also had 99 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: like the facing like everybody walked by you computer and yeah, yeah, 100 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: I was very mad when they moved there. Yes, you 101 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: were out of your corner um. But yeah, I will 102 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: say for our office is eerily quiet, like everybody so 103 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: in their zone and such great workers, that's what it 104 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: really means. But it's they're so silent you walk in 105 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: and a small sound everybody knows. So it was definitely 106 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: kind of erie as well as Yeah, I was overly 107 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: conscious of being super quiet and I'm not a quiet person. Yeah, 108 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: and that's actually a good point. I want to get 109 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: back to you for this episode because today we're talking 110 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: about remote work and what that looks like for women particularly. 111 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:55,239 Speaker 1: And this was a listener request from Julia, So thank you, Julia, Yeah, 112 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: thank you Julia. Yeah. And she was specifically saying, like, 113 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: when it comes to things that women often face in 114 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: the office, like sexual harassment, being judged by looks fashion, 115 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: how remote work might remove those things are less than 116 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: those things having to deal with those things. And um, 117 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: when we look at COVID nineteen, it has changed how 118 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: a lot of us work. Yes, I am coming to 119 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: you from my cousplay studio. Still, in a very short 120 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: amount of time, companies had to pivot to one or 121 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: nearly one remote work or a lot of companies did 122 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: not all of them. I think we did it. Our 123 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: office did it in a matter of days. It was fast. Um. 124 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: Even the Trump White House recommended that people work from 125 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: home quote whenever possible. However, many many companies resisted this, 126 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: as did several government agencies. For example, one CEO even 127 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: message employees we are collectively more productive working in our 128 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: corporate off This is and another said if we wish 129 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: to maintain our productivity, we need to continue working in 130 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:10,239 Speaker 1: these offices. It is soul stealing and abilitating to embrace 131 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: the notion of social distancing and economic hiber nation. Now, 132 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: to be fair to this guy, he did later reverse 133 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: his statement, but he put that down in texts in 134 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: it to employees. Yeah, and I have friends. I have 135 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: friends who have received similar messages from bosses, and some 136 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: of them, like around this time, are having to go 137 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: back into work, right, even though clearly things are not 138 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: under control. Right. I've talked to old coworkers of mine 139 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: who are in the State Agency, and they a lot 140 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: of them that because it is a face to face job, 141 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: you have to see people, you have to see because 142 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: you have to see parents, you have to make visits. UM, 143 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: it was really difficult for the transition, and everything went 144 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: to telecommunications so zoom meetings and by away, surprise, surprise, 145 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: the State Agency doesn't have a lot of money and 146 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: doesn't have much invested in things like that, in equipment 147 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: like that. UM, even though it had actually been talked 148 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: about previously that why can't we just do this because 149 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: people were traveling so much that a big part of 150 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 1: the budget was being taken out for travel reimbursement, which 151 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: I know we're gonna talk a little bit more about later, 152 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: but it is it's kind of interesting to see how 153 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: they all kind of had to quickly change and what 154 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: is needed, what isn't needed, and then how so having 155 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: to backtrack and realize maybe part of this is because 156 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: they're trying to maintain control over their workers because they 157 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: didn't trust their productivity. Yeah, which is the whole thing. Yes, yes, 158 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: And that comes up a lot in this of this. 159 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: I believe that people are just shirking. I'm so ready 160 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: to shirk off their responsibilities and do less work, and 161 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: that is not the case. And we have some numbers 162 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: on that later for you. In this, so many remote 163 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 1: work policies implemented in the pandemics wake we're confusing, or 164 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: workers were afraid to use them, much like myself. Um, 165 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: some required managerial approval, meaning that it wasn't uniform. Even 166 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: this week, the boss over at Netflix said he saw 167 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: only negatives of working from home, which I'm really surprised by. 168 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: Remote work is often framed in direct opposition of collaborative 169 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: open space work, particularly in the text sector, and we've 170 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: kind of talked about open Works Force and all of 171 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: that because I'm like, what is this. Yeah, I know 172 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: I've said it before on this show, but one of 173 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: the first, like when we moved to our open space office, 174 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: one of the first meetings we had in there turned 175 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: into a two hour session of people complaining about how 176 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: they Okay, I'm telling you kind of like because I 177 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: came from a very individualistic case management type of world 178 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: and coming to that, I was like, what's happening? What 179 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: is happening? So yes, I was definitely one of those 180 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: I was confused. But all of this is complicated. Some 181 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: companies cannot close like we just said, or they'll go under, 182 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: but stayed open puts worker, as we know, at risk. 183 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: A lot of the bosses making these decisions have the 184 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: option to work from home while asking their employees to 185 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: go in. If we had a government safety net, we 186 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: might be having a different conversation. Yeah. Yeah, And again 187 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: with all of the issues of access, not everyone has 188 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: the internet or even fast enough internet or laptops, and 189 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: not all companies are providing these things, even if they're 190 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: asking their employees to work from home, so that is 191 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: an issue as well. Other companies are reevaluating remote work policies, 192 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: and I know we've had conversations among our co workers 193 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: if we're ever going to truly go back to the 194 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: office like we used to. It definitely feels like this 195 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: has changed how we work, and it will. It's a 196 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: change that's here to stay. I personally think it's going 197 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: to be more remote work. Maybe you have to come 198 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: in for in our case, like one to two days, 199 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: and we'll have not the big office space we have. 200 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: I think that's going away, right um, and big companies 201 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: like Facebook and Twitter have announced they're making remote work 202 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: permanent after this, right that smart? Mm hmm. Now, No, 203 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: before we get into this, there isn't a lot in 204 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: the way of data when it comes to remote working, 205 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: though more and more is starting to be collected. However, 206 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 1: my own personal caveat, I think that we can't necessarily 207 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: extrapolate too much out of the data being collected. Now 208 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:30,599 Speaker 1: we can, but we just have to always have that 209 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: aspects of like it is a unique stressful time. It 210 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: is a pandemic, right, so numbers are changing, right, How 211 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: does it look outside of a pandemic right. And on 212 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: top of that, a lot of us are seeing our 213 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: coworkers in their home environments for the first time, which 214 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: is sometimes really funny, sometimes really embarrassing. UM. And some 215 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: speculate that this will encourage manages to be more flexible 216 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: post pandemic with remote options and schedules. Others think that 217 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: unless what culture changes, people who use work from home 218 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: policies to work late and get work done will be rewarded, 219 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: while others will use it for family reasons, mostly women, 220 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: who will be penalized. Right. And this is called the 221 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: ideal worker norm. And this is a worker who comes 222 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: in early, stays late, and never has to leave for 223 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: family reasons or any reason really and therefore is a 224 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: better worker and treats the job more seriously, which also 225 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 1: ties into the face time bias, which is going to 226 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: come up a lot in this UM. So yeah, there, 227 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: there's some people speculate unless we change that whole idea, 228 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: then even this kind of equalizing remote work time is 229 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: not gonna it's still going to carry over, right, which 230 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: is a very u s idea like that when you 231 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: hit that in there, that this whole not taking time 232 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: off of work, not having vacations and running yourself into 233 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: the ground. Definitely, this whole bootstrapping, this is how we 234 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: do it, is how you do it. You sacrifice everything 235 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: for your job, which is a whole other conversation. But 236 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: all of this has sparked conversations around work culture, whether 237 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: it's outdated, who business, who benefits from it, and how 238 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: we can make it better. So we're going to get 239 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: into some basics. Yes, so when we say remote work 240 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: also telework or tele commuting, what we mean is the 241 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: ability to accomplish work outside of an office. Most of 242 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: the very first work from home options offered in the 243 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: United States in the ninety nineties were part of women's initiatives, 244 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: only available to women because it was assumed men didn't 245 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: need them or want them because they weren't involved in caregiving. 246 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: And because of this, these options soon earned the nickname 247 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: the mommy track. However, these programs were so rarely used 248 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: for fear of panormalization, some HR professionals called them ghost benefits. 249 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: A new study out of m I T found that 250 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: since the pandemic, about half of Americans who are employed 251 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: before the pandemic are now working remotely. Compare that too 252 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: before the pandemic, when only seven percent of Americans had 253 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: access to flexible schedules and work from home policies, according 254 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: to the U. S. Bureau of Labor. Perhaps because of 255 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: a history of articles out there claiming that working from 256 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: home will lead to once again a decrease in job 257 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: performance and effectiveness, companies have been very resistant to moving 258 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: to remote work or allowing for more flexible schedules. But 259 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: that is changing thanks to quarantine as many of them 260 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: are forced to adjust and their employees along with them. 261 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: And those beliefs about a reduction in productivity from remote 262 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: workers are actually not true, which I feel like it's 263 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: not a big surprise, but a twenty fourteen study found 264 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: that working from home actually increased productivity and saved companies 265 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: surprise money. Of course, the caveat with the study is 266 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: it surveyed the sector that could easily work from home, 267 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: and it was a self selected group, So remember that 268 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: when you work thinking at all these good things, right, 269 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: But other studies have found similar things. They found that 270 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: remote work options not only increased productivity, but also increased satisfaction, 271 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: employee satisfaction, engagement, and retention while decreasing stress. Remote workers 272 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: often work harder and for longer giving time without pay, 273 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: which is not good actually, but it shows how incorrect 274 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: the reigning assumption is. And I actually wonder because that 275 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: is the assumption that you're working less, that you work 276 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: more to prove that it's not true, that you're you're 277 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: definitely getting your work done, and actually I'm doing even more, 278 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: see right, And it's exactly I know. This has been 279 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: a conversation for many of us who may have had 280 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: flexible schedules previously because we had to be the the 281 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: keepers and may being able to prove that people can 282 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: do this, and so I would be more likely to 283 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: answer emails so much faster if I was at home 284 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: then I would if I was at the work space, 285 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm here, you got right here, that's all. 286 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: You get it right, right, right, right, which was not 287 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: necessarily the best attitude. But yeah, if I was at 288 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: home and I was given that option, or if I 289 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: were able to do something else, I was quickly on it. 290 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: I made sure to be more attentive, so you did 291 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: not have any questions about whether or not I'm working 292 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: or being productive. Yeah, and this goes back to what 293 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: I actually wanted to bring up about how you said 294 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: everyone in our office is so quiet, and at least 295 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: in my case and I and most of my team 296 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: members case, there's you know, we're working in audio. There's 297 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: part that's part of it. But also there was just 298 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 1: this idea that if I can get my work done 299 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: as quickly as possible, I can go home and be 300 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: done with work. Right. So the work day at this 301 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: clear separation, whereas now for remote work, I do feel 302 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: like I'm working more and it's kind of surprised me. 303 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: There's not the clear like, oh, I'm going home, I'm 304 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: done with work now, it's it's work question shrug emoji. Right. Um, 305 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: so I do like I am putting in more time. Right. Oh. 306 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: And another study found that children with mothers who had 307 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: access to flexible work options slept more so, which is awesome, 308 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: which is something to think on, except for the fact 309 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: that I have been reading as school is back in 310 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: and people are doing remote learning that the school time 311 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: still starts. An that's kind of shocking. Oh no, yeah, yeah, 312 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: so as before when it was summertime, I think that 313 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: changed a little bit, but now that school started, it's 314 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: almost like okay. For the mothers or fathers who are 315 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: working at home, they don't actually start till eight thirty 316 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: nine o'clock, but now because schools back in, school starts 317 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: even earlier for a lot of them, so they kind 318 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: of lose out now. But that's a whole of the conversation. 319 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 1: So employees have also reported feeling their work is more 320 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: innovative when telework options are available, which I'm trying to 321 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: see if that's true for me um, and that they 322 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: felt more informed, both which were frequently side concerns of 323 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: remote work, right, that it would be less innovative and 324 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: they would feel employees would feel les informed, but actually 325 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: the opposite is true. Now, this was a specific study 326 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: to Australia, so just put that out there, right, And 327 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: that's just a taste of some of the potential positives 328 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: of remote work and we'll get into more. But first 329 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna pause for a quick break for a word 330 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored. All right, 331 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: So now we kind of want to talk about the 332 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: pros because we've already talked a little bit about the positive. 333 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: So what are these pros? So lately we've seen more 334 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: and more stories about the benefits of remote work flexibility, 335 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: time and money saving, and one found study that here 336 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, people who are full time office workers say 337 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: five on commuting costs a year when they started remote working, 338 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: which is significant for us. And in New York, eliminating 339 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: commutes say full time employees an average of three hundred 340 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: and forty three hours a year. Wow, which is about 341 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: two weeks. Yeah. When Yeah, which is about two weeks. 342 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: But like such, so been so beneficial. The communal loan 343 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: just kind of zapps people from their Yeah. So it's 344 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: better for the environment and minimizing FaceTime, Yes, and the 345 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: biases that often come with it. And we've heard about 346 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: the benefits, especially for women, and especially when it comes 347 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: to childcare and things like breastfeeding or providing care in general, 348 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: not to mention the benefits for people who can't go 349 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: into the offices for whatever reason or having difficulty doing so. Yes, 350 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: And we have talked on this show so many times 351 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: about how women are penalized for having children or even 352 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: the assumed potential to have children, not getting jobs, not 353 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: getting promoted, losing jobs, losing promotion stions. We talked about 354 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: this recently in our animal care episode. Working from home 355 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: can help in those areas. Not only that a lot 356 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: of mothers report a guilt factor of not having a 357 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: flexible schedule, and work from home policies could ameliorate that 358 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: as well. Research from Pew found that fifty one percent 359 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: of working mothers said having a family made career advancement difficult, 360 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: while only six percent of working fathers said the same thing. 361 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: Forty percent of mothers took reduced hours to support their families, 362 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: compared to only twenty eight percent of fathers, and that 363 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: is a huge difference. YEAH University of Wisconsin Milwaukee study 364 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,719 Speaker 1: found one third of women in tech left their jobs 365 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: due to lack of work life balance. In a seventeen 366 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: study out of the UK, seventy percent of women cited 367 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: remote working options as vital if companies wanted to keep 368 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: them as employees for the long term. Right and another 369 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: recent survey found that while women are more likely to 370 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: request the option to work from home stent of women 371 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: compared to the three set of men, they're less likely 372 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: to get it. Of female respondents reported quitting their job 373 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: because that option wasn't offered. Another report found that women 374 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: who work from home are twice as likely to feel 375 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: comfortable going to h R compared to in office women 376 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,479 Speaker 1: in sixty seven percent of women who work from home 377 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: field that HR understands their needs compared to in office women, 378 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: which makes me wonder. That kind of surprised me too. 379 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: That makes me wonder if the office culture really is 380 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: just such a masculinized space that you feel less comfortable. Well, 381 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: and I know, I know for me, sometimes it's just 382 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: easier to being able to write things to people and 383 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: not have to sit there and explain. That can be 384 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 1: more succinct, and that can be more professional without them 385 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: assuming on being emotional or you know, just I would 386 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: think any of those things maybe a little better, and 387 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: especially if you have evidence like these are the things 388 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: I'm talking about that's true, you know, so that could 389 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: be a whole big thing. Uh. That same report found 390 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: that in twenty nineteen, fifty seven percent of women who 391 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: worked remotely we did the promotion in that year, compared 392 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: to thirty in office women and fifty one of male 393 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: remote workers, which is interesting numbers. Yes. And on the 394 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: other side of the coin, if you look at remote 395 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: work companies, that is, companies that specialize in remote work, 396 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: of presidents, founders and CEOs are women of those companies. 397 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: Another study found that eight of the dreaded millennials reported 398 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: work life balance was important to them, and eight five 399 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: percent wanted to remote work one percent of the time. 400 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: Seventeen survey of four hundred millennial women found that eighty 401 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: three percent of them wanted to start their own businesses 402 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: and also put family first. They wanted both of those 403 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: things right. Other studies have had that video conferencing can 404 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: help equalize in terms of appearance. While science indicates taller, 405 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: louder people typically men get more attention of meetings when 406 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: we're all reduced to a small square. Even if that 407 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: which is yea often did that so we can little 408 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: slat or just text, you know, but lessons that advantage yeah. 409 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: One report looking specifically at military spouses, of whom are women, 410 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: found that remote work could be a real positive for them. 411 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: The unemployment rate for military spouses is about compared to 412 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 1: the pre pandemic and not true anymore of four uh. 413 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: This could be due to inability to speak of language 414 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: as they move from base to base, difficulty finding short 415 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 1: term employment. Because of this, they are often targeted for MLMs. 416 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: More remote work options could change that could give them 417 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: something else that they could do. So remote work and 418 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: flexible scheduling options don't just help women but also other 419 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: marginalized groups. So there are some positives, but as expected, 420 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: there are some downsize and we'll get into those after 421 00:24:53,000 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: a quick break. Form a ward from our sponsor and 422 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you sponsor. Uh So, yeah, it's not 423 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: all good. We've been painting a very rosy picture here, 424 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: but there are some definite downsize. A recent I m 425 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: F study found that in the face of the pandemic, 426 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: one million workers and thirty five advanced and emerging companies 427 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: are at risk of losing their jobs due to their 428 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: inability to work remotely in a majority of those impacted 429 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: are the young, the poor, and women, potentially compounding wealth 430 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 1: and gender wealth gaps. For women specifically, this is due 431 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: to the fact that they do make up a large 432 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: chunk of hospitality jobs and also carry the primary responsibility 433 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: for childcare, while these services are currently largely unavailable. Right. 434 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: I actually just read something about people who work lunch 435 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: spaces and things like that at work offices and how 436 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: they've lost their business because of that. So it is 437 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: is a question of yes, we understand, but these other 438 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: businesses grew because of needs in office types of workplaces. So. 439 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: But for those that can work remotely, one of the 440 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: potential issues has to do with increased domestic work. We've 441 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: talked about this before. Several studies have found that while 442 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: men who work from home focus on their work, women 443 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: are expected to pick up more domestic responsibility, particularly now 444 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: with homeschooling. Um. That can and that can be distracting 445 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: and frustrating, leading to family conflict. Uh. Job creeps into 446 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: family time and extreme multitasking. And to that end, some 447 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: studies have found that companies that allow for flexible work 448 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: schedules do retain women with children at lower management positions, 449 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: but that doesn't translate to women advancing to more senior jobs. 450 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: And one way to combat this is having an office 451 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: that has a door you can close to have a 452 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: separate sphere, even if it's an office that's in a closet, 453 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: right yeah um. And if you're in a relationship with 454 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 1: a significant other, having them share the load also helps. 455 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: And other experts suggest that home life interruptions during video 456 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: meetings may make women doubt their capabilities. Yeah, sort of 457 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: the remote working version of imposter syndrome. Right. Um. Another 458 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: issue that might come up is a lack of access 459 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: to informal networks, particularly largely male decision makers. If you're 460 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: in a zoom meeting, it's more difficult to get informal 461 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: feedback and advice that often transforms employees into leaders. And 462 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: while remote work can, in theory democratize promotions, it depends 463 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: on people putting themselves forward, their resumes for speaking up 464 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: for themselves when it comes to promotions, negotiation, negotiating salaries, 465 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: All of those things that we know do have gender 466 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:52,120 Speaker 1: differences with women putting themselves forward less. On top of that, 467 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: who's getting invited to those informal work happy hours and 468 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: what decisions are being made on sidebar conversations? How many 469 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: him and stay on you to hide household disruptions. This 470 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: is not a thing that I had considered, But yes, 471 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 1: I guess that is true. If you've got something going on, 472 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: you wouldn't mute, right. Yeah. Uh. Something else to be 473 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: watching is what happens when some of us do start 474 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: re entering the office and for some uh, that won't 475 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: be an option due to relocation for whatever reason. Um, 476 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: will it be more men running into each other and 477 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: traveling for work and therefore getting more promotions? Will women 478 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: miss out on those quick informal decision making conversations, which, 479 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: by the way, we call it our office fly bys. UM. 480 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: I do not like fly bys because it's like you freeze, 481 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: because you you understand that this decision needs to be 482 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: very made, very quickly. And I'm someone who likes to 483 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: consider all of the options. So I usually panic and 484 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: immediately regret what I say, and then I debate on 485 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: do I email? But actually, yeah, so I don't like those. 486 00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of those, but they do happen. 487 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: Um Essentially, would we all end up going to the 488 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: office anyway because we're afraid of being left out or 489 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: out of sight, out of mind. Uh. In one article 490 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: I read, they said, well, the office become the new 491 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: status symbol, like going into the office. That's interesting because, 492 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: as you and I've talked about, I have not been 493 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: in the office that often, and I just kind of 494 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: officially started right as the pandemic quarantine happened, And so 495 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: I got went in the office a few times and 496 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: and didn't see the many people. I don't even have 497 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: a desk there, not because they didn't offer. I'm just like, 498 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: why would I need it? You know, I don't know 499 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: what I would need it? More than because I can 500 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: do this from this table over here, because it does 501 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: an open space with large tables and such. But yeah, 502 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: I thought about this and like, people don't know I 503 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: exist in that office because they don't realize I was 504 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: hired so close to the quarantine happening. It's like, oh, yeah, 505 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: she doesn't work there, doesn't she like, hey, I'm over here, 506 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: So this is interesting. I do think about that too. 507 00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, well, I guess people don't know who 508 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: I am. That's cool and interesting. Well, even I worry 509 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: about it because I, as you know, and I'm almost 510 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: afraid to admit this, but I hate meetings and I 511 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,719 Speaker 1: don't frequently go to them even if I'm invited to them, 512 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: and sometimes I'm worried. That's well, it's probably really not 513 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: a good career. Again, so you don't like face times either. 514 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: So new data also indicates that remote work days right 515 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: after the pandemic were longer and filled with more emails 516 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: and so many more meetings. Um, but it has evened 517 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: down a bit, I will say that. Yeah. Yeah, So 518 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: if we look at recommendations, how do we how do 519 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: we go forward? Experts recommend collecting and analyzing data examining 520 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: work cultures to determine if work from home is suitable 521 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: and keep in mind issues of gender and access, and 522 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: have women in other marginalized groups involved in these discussions 523 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: and decisions. Education for managers and clear communication of rules 524 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: and avoiding rewarding people who come in over those who don't, 525 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: which scientifically there is a lot of research that shows 526 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: that's difficult. Um, But if you know that, keep that 527 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: in mind, U and keeping an eye on output, like 528 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: if remote workers getting all of their work done timely manner, 529 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: that's got to keep an eye on that output. Yeah, 530 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: mhm um. And of course communication always communication, and it 531 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: is a little more difficult now that we are in pandemic. 532 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: Can't just come up and talk to someone about a 533 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: quick idea or have a flyby apparently I've learned as 534 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: a thing, but yeah, to have to actually type it 535 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: out and send it on and hoping that you can 536 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: have a clear communication, which I've you and I talked 537 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: about this other day as we were talking about interview people. 538 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: We weren't sure exactly if everything has been communicated, but 539 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: we didn't want to step on toes even though it's 540 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: a damn email. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's I can 541 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: see the positives of it in the negatives of it, 542 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: because on one hand, it's harder to have a fly by, 543 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: which means that hopefully more people are involved or less 544 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: people are left out. Maybe it's a better way of 545 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: saying it as opposed to an informal conversation decision that 546 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: just happened, like you know, as you walked by somebody. Um, 547 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: but uh, and also there'd be a record of it. 548 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: But I can see the the downside as well, the difficulties. 549 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: And you know, we don't really use slack at our office, 550 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: or at least our team doesn't. Other teams in our 551 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: office does. But I've heard about like slack secret Slack 552 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: discussions and things happening like on there. So this is 553 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: where I feel left out because I have no idea 554 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: what's happening, because I'm not invited to many because people 555 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: don't know I exist as my because I haven't been 556 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: on people's radar. So I'm like, what what's happening? So 557 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: I have to use other people to tell me what's happening. 558 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: But that was just decided to note about communication. It 559 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: is important. It can be difficult sometimes because you have 560 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: to put a little more effort so on a governmental 561 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: and corporate level, not surprising, providing social programs and safetiness 562 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: with the input of those most impacted, which I know 563 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: it's kind of been a lesson of who are you 564 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: listening to? Whose voices should be race And it's important 565 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: that we do that within jobs and sectors of remote work. Yes, yes, 566 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: um And to be clear, remote work doesn't make sexy 567 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: spices go away. I know I probably don't have to 568 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: say that, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Until we 569 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: change things, women will still be judged in video calls 570 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: by their looks. I've seen these Zoom articles of how 571 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: to how women can look so good in their Zoom meetings, um, 572 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: or by the way they phrase things in text. How 573 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: many exclamation points did we use or didn't use? Yeah, 574 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: I'm g s so much judgment. But in a lot 575 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: of ways, remote work and flexible hours are beneficial to 576 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: women and not just women. Of course, we've talked about 577 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: the economic and professional penalties to women during this pandemic too. 578 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,280 Speaker 1: So while this pandemic might be pushing corporate culture towards 579 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,479 Speaker 1: more flexible work hours and remote work options, which does 580 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: and will continue to benfit a lot of women. We 581 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: can't forget all other areas we've been women have been 582 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: hurt in during this pandemic and in many cases for 583 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: the long term, and how we can tackle those things too. 584 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: Um and also always worth reiterating access who has access 585 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 1: to remote working? So um, that's that's an overview. It 586 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: is interesting doing this right now when so many of 587 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: these things are unfolding. Uh, and we're seeing I know 588 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: when our meetings, our boss has brought up several times 589 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: like my kids are here and I'm having to rethink 590 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,720 Speaker 1: all of this stuff. And it's just interesting to watch 591 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 1: it play out. And thanks to Julia for suggesting it 592 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: right um. Definitely worth discussing, and kudos to her and 593 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: how she's having to handle her situation. Yes, yes, yes, 594 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: yes um. If you listeners have any suggestion for us, 595 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: we would love to hear them. You can email us 596 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: at Stuff, Medium, Bomb, Stuff at i arn't media dot com. 597 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,359 Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never 598 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: Told You or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks. 599 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: It's always to our super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks Andrew, 600 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told 601 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,280 Speaker 1: You is the production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts 602 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio is the heart radio app, Apple 603 00:35:46,480 --> 00:36:00,040 Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A